transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:09] Hello, and welcome to Politics War Room with James Carville and Al Hunt. This week, our guests are the Democratic gubernatorial and lieutenant governor candidate in Ohio, Amy Acton and David Pepper, and Texas CD15 congressional candidate, Bobby Pulido. Now, remember, we love taking your questions, so write to politicswarroom.gmail.com for next week's show. We're going to get to as many as we can, but don't forget to tell us where you're from. You also can get text updates about what's next for Politicon and Politics War Room by signing up at politicon.com. So tell your friends about us, remind them to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please check out the links to our sponsors, Miracle Made, Boxxy, Shopify, and DeleteMe in our episode, Who Knows. We thank you for supporting these sponsors. It helps make this podcast happen. James, we are taping Wednesday afternoon when it airs Thursday morning, I don't know, 16 hours from now or so. Who knows where the Iran War will be? Donald Trump launched this war recklessly. That understates the case. You know, General Eisenhower once said, planning is worthless once war starts as the unexpected is inevitable. But planning is essential to give you the flexibility to change or adapt. Look at Normandy. One Trump entered this war thinking it was going to be a piece of cake. He bombed Iran, obliterated their nuclear capacity, no trouble, took Venezuela a matter of hours. We'll find our Delcey quickly. He would totally con, I mean, just turned upside down by Bibi Netanyahu, who told him, we'll take out their leaders. The populace will rise up. Wrong. They have a very entrenched, a very bad structure over there. The thought of the Iranian Jr. Varsity taking over the Straits of Hormuz, blocking shipping and giving them enormous leverage never was taken seriously. Finally, Trump figured a big military victory. Here I am, a great hero. Now, the patent of my time would bolster his political standing. Always it's about him. That too is boomerang and he's more unpopular than ever. James, I really think no war, no prominent world leader has gone into something as unprepared since Neville Chamberlain at Munich.

Speaker 2:
[02:37] Yeah, I actually, there's some books that defend Chamberlain at Munich. I'm going to go through it, but actually there wasn't much they could do about it anyway. But be that as it may, this-

Speaker 1:
[02:50] He didn't do whatever he did very well.

Speaker 2:
[02:52] He didn't do whatever he did very well, but he tried not to start a war. Trump, I don't want to defend it. But just to say, it's really, really highly, not just highly, you're highly stupid. The Iraq war, which I was bitterly opposed to, at least there was a rationale. In the minds of a lot of people that did it, there was a good rationale. It turned out, and they thought it was smart, it turned out not to be, but Trump didn't have a rationale. He had no idea what he's doing, he had no idea what he's trying to accomplish, nothing. BB just tricked him into doing it. It's clear. You read Maggie and Jonathan Slane's piece, it's more and more going to come out, and the more we're going to find out about this, and trust me, we don't know, we know 10%, the worse it's going to be for it.

Speaker 1:
[03:48] Yeah, you know, Trump does all this from his own instincts, which are bad, by the way, uninformed and ignorant. He has no national security apparatus. Marco Rubio, not very strong himself, is both Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor. So there's planning is impossible, really, because you don't have planners. And I think that shows. And it's just he is desperate to do two things right now, to come out as a forceful guy, a tough guy, help him at home, and two, to get the hell out. And you know what, James, those are in conflict. He can't achieve them.

Speaker 2:
[04:27] Well, he doesn't think anything out. This was just impulsive. I mean, he just did it and he thought it was going to be Venezuela. Who knows what's in his mind? It's so adult to start with. It was just something he said, I'll do this, I'll be great, I'll be a wartime president. I don't know. But people are paying for this every day at the gas pump, and they know it, and they know it.

Speaker 1:
[04:56] Yep. Wall Street Journal had a piece that when they were planning on how to rescue that pilot that was shot down, that they wanted to make sure Trump wasn't in the meeting because they didn't put it this way, but basically that he would screw it up. That's something when the big decisions are made and planners are there, and I think it was at the White House, just make sure the president's not there. That's where we are. On a separate matter, Virginia passed a redistricting bill, which if upheld by the courts, which it probably will be, would give Democrats who currently have a 6-5 advantage in congressional seats a 10-1 advantage. That is an awful outcome. Virginia is a blue state, but it's not a 90% blue state. Democrats, however, had no choice. This was all due to Donald Trump, who, desperate to avoid losing the House last year, demanded Republicans gerrymander in Texas and elsewhere, and they were going to try to fix the elections. What he didn't figure was that Democrats would respond just as ruthlessly, California and Virginia in particular. I'll say this, as I say, I think the outcome of Virginia is terrible. I would have voted for it, even though I think it's terrible. They did it by referendum. The voters decided, rather than backroom deals like they did in Texas and in Missouri and elsewhere. Over the weekend, I heard these Republican talking points on CNN saying, okay, California offset Texas, but there's no justification for Virginia. Tell them to look next door at North Carolina, a purple, slightly red state, gerrymandered their congressional districts for what's expected to be an 11 to 3 advantage. I'll tell you, 11 to 3 in North Carolina is every bit as bad as 10 to 1 in Virginia. Trump, who only cares about himself, started this whole damn fiasco, and in the end, I think it may help Democrats more than it helps him.

Speaker 2:
[07:05] Well, you got to bring the Supreme Court, too. I mean, I hate to bring the bearer of bad news, but the great American institution called the Supreme Court said, we don't care, there's no equal protection, there's no anything. Legislature can do what they want. They kind of fake through, or you just can't do some things on race, but they don't believe that anyway. The court has become so disreputable, so unpopular, and look at the polls, I'm not the only person that believes that. It has to be saved from itself. That's how bad it's become. But there are people that let this stuff go with all this cock and amy, 11 to 3, as if the voters aren't required to have equal protection during redistricting. I have no idea how you come up with that theory, that a legal theory could work, but they say it does. They're corrupt. No code of ethics, no rules of conduct, no nothing.

Speaker 1:
[08:08] And same as state. I mean, in North Carolina was a state court. I must say, I think Democrats were asleep at the switch in 2022 when they didn't understand how important that state Supreme Court election was. But look, this whole thing is, I mean, I firmly believe in bipartisan redistricting. I really do. It won't happen, because if one side does it and the other doesn't, California had it, Texas didn't, Virginia had it, North Carolina didn't, you can't unilaterally disarm. And until you get to the point where both sides agree that this is a war race that only hurts democracy. I mean, the problem with this is when you let politicians choose their voters rather than voters choose their politicians, you create politicians who have very little incentive to govern or compromise. So it's a terrible system. But this year it was all brought on by Donald Trump.

Speaker 2:
[09:09] Yeah, I think the Supreme Court did its part. But yeah, it wouldn't have happened without Trump.

Speaker 1:
[09:15] Well, but this year, this year was all Trump. I mean, you know, starting. Yeah, yeah, I mean, we haven't had Bush and Obama and Biden, or Biden's different because it was after a census. They didn't try to get a some kind of a redistricting campaign. I mean, Trump thought the whole thing would be Republicans. He didn't know what Democrats in Virginia and California underestimated it anyway. I want to move on to a couple of things, then come to you on a big thing, James. James Carville versus Donald Trump. But let me just a couple of points. Kevin Warsh was nominated to chair the Federal Reserve. He told the Senate that Trump, who's obsessed with cutting interest rates, never pressured or even asked him to cut rates if confirmed. A bad start fudging the truth, Mr. Warsh. Defense Secretary Hegseth ordered that flu vaccines for our troops not be mandatory in the name of freedom. At Valley Forge in 1777, General Washington mandated that all his troops be vaccinated against smallpox. So a simple question for our listeners. Who do you think understood and cared more about freedom? Hegseth or George Washington? Finally, Trump has declared English our official language. At the same time, he is abolishing the federal office that supports teaching English to Spanish-speaking kids. Not surprising. James, among other things that Trump did do this week was, he attacked you.

Speaker 2:
[10:51] Yeah. He attacked me. I said the idea, what the Democrats should do to get power is immediately add Puerto Rico and District of Columbia as a state and expand to spring 4 to 13. All right. This is what I think is my role as a rabbi. My job is to teach people. How many people in this country you think know that 18 percent of the country elects 52 senators? The answer is not very many. How many people in this country know that in the last nine presidential elections, the Democrats have won seven in the popular vote? Not very many people. How many people in this country know that Supreme Court justices are only people in the federal system that operate with no rules of ethics, no guidelines, no nothing? All right. How many people in this country understand that? How many people know about RVs and school tuitions and headhunters of big law firms making $10 million to hire people at practice for the Supreme Court? How many people know about the G5 trip that Justice Alita took to go some high-end fishing lodge? How many people know about the sale of Judge Gorsuch House in Denver? The truth of the matter is by bringing this out, if we don't do anything, we're going to educate the American people. Because frankly, the commentary in here maybe shows like ours deserves some of the blame, clearly the press deserves blame. People don't understand what's happening to this country. And this proposal, I think, if it does nothing else, is going to have a great educational purpose. And I'd also put on notice, Fox, Newsmax, whoever you are, if you want me to come on and discuss this and tell your viewers what the truth is about the United States, which you sincerely don't want to do, but if you invite me, I will go. All right? Do not say that Mr. Carville was unavailable to comment because he is available for comment. And I will explain this. And I'll explain what's going on to this country for people that don't understand it.

Speaker 1:
[13:07] James, I don't want you to clear your schedule for those invites. I have a feeling they're not interested in hearing this. But I think if Mr. Trump feels so strongly about this, he ought to challenge you to a debate. You could do it on his terms, wherever he wants to do it. Do it in Mar-a-Lago.

Speaker 2:
[13:26] He can have a designee. Maybe he can get... Who's that idiot?

Speaker 1:
[13:31] I want him. I want him. All right.

Speaker 2:
[13:34] Well, I'd take Kevin Roberts, for sure, or Russell Voight. That would be my joy.

Speaker 1:
[13:42] All right, guys, stay tuned. It could be Trump v. Carville.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[17:30] Well, thank you so much. It's an honor to be here with you both, and absolutely, Ohio is in play this cycle. I'm a doctor, I'm not a politician. I'm going to let my friend, David Pepper, speak a little bit more to the history. But I am a lifelong public servant, and I am blessed to have a very unique constituency that does not know party. I've spent my entire career, I'm 60 years old, working with people on both sides of the aisle to move Ohio forward. And that has often meant Republican governors, Republican legislatures. Most recently, I worked for Governor Mike DeWine. I led our COVID response in our health department for the state of Ohio. So we've been traveling everywhere in this state, listening deeply. I've been on the road. This is my third year. We see record crowds. It does not know party. People are longing in Ohio for change. They are longing for public servants who actually solve problems instead of make problems. And we are the old Tim Russert state. As goes Ohio, so goes the nation. And that's what we're seeing on the ground this time.

Speaker 1:
[18:43] I love it when somebody brings up Tim Russert, one of my dearest friends.

Speaker 3:
[18:46] I know, I miss him dearly.

Speaker 1:
[18:47] So do I, every Sunday particularly. Anyway, focus on health care. That's your expertise. What differences do you have with your Republican opponent?

Speaker 3:
[18:57] Well, let's just begin by saying I'm up against a self-funding billionaire, Mr. Vivek Ramaswamy. Many folks know him. He was famously kicked out of Doge for saying that people are struggling and people in my state are struggling. But he thinks it's because they're lazy, mediocre, not working hard enough. He has literally said that Medicaid and Medicare are mistakes. He wants to dismantle them all. And as a physician who's been doing this work, like I said, almost 40 years as a doc, I know that people in the state are struggling. We have people that rely on these services for health care. We have 11 rural hospitals right now on the brink of collapse, one rural hospital. We know how much these services matter. We need someone in my state who's going to push back on that. In our state, we're going to be pushing back on these changes coming down as are many of the governors. We are going to be fighting, for instance, to alleviate medical debt in my state for pennies on the dollar. We know how to do this. We actually invented it in Toledo, Ohio. We just saw Pritzker spend $10 million of state money to actually alleviate a billion dollars in medical debt for his people. That's something I hear about everywhere I go. It is all about the cost of living and health care costs are the number one costs that people are facing.

Speaker 1:
[20:20] David Pepper, I'm going to give you a chance to defend your running mate. When she ran health care for Governor DeWine, the Republicans say she unnecessarily closed down schools and gyms and workplaces. Is that right?

Speaker 4:
[20:34] Let me say this. What I watched and you'll respect this, I was the Democratic chair of the party. She was working for the Republican governor, and it was a master class of public servant leadership that you see once in a generation. She became really a household name. James, you'll like this as a political student. Little girls dressed up as Amy Acton for Halloween. There were bobblehead dolls all over the state. She became an overnight sensation because she told the truth. She'd work with anyone to solve problems. She would communicate in the way that FDR did during his fireside chats. I'm the Democratic chair literally thinking, who is this person? It was as impressive as you've seen. I always thought to myself, kind of like John Glenn, she got famous, not by being a politician, but by being a phenomenal public servant. Al, you and I might have talked about this one point. I always thought if she ever ran for office, it would be a juggernaut and that's what this is. A lot of the things they're now criticizing her for, the irony is she was standing with Senator John Husted, and with Mike DeWine, and with others. They all made these together. She made them all look good. She did an incredible job. The good news is that goodwill she built up with that broad coalition, it remains the case today. Recent polls, Dr. Acton is by far the highest approved public figure in Ohio across party lines because of that phenomenal leadership she showed when everyone was counting on her to stay healthy.

Speaker 1:
[22:12] Boy, Dr. Acton, you have a loyal running mate. There's no question of that. David, was my history of Ohio at all troubling?

Speaker 4:
[22:24] Yeah. I mean, as someone who... Amy and I, we compete about who loves Ohio more. I was named in college the most likely to be president of the Cincinnati Board of Tourism, because I just bragged about Ohio all day in Cincinnati. What's troubling about our state is that a great state is struggling and by almost every measure, we are failing to live up to all of our assets. One party rule here in the extremism and the corruption of the state house, in the last 15 years in particular, has a great state that should be doing well, going in the wrong direction by every measure. Guess what? Everyday people are paying the price for that in every way imaginable, from higher energy costs, higher tuition, health care costs. The politics are bad, but frankly, the results for everyday people are even worse, and that's what we want to fix.

Speaker 3:
[23:13] And Al, I can tell you more about Ohio as again, a lifelong public servant and a doctor. I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio. Youngstown, we used to say we didn't know what party you were in, but we knew what union you were in, and what food you made from the country you came from. Youngstown is the stuff of Bruce Springsteen stories, and my story was a pretty rough childhood there. And I was able to overcome all of that pretty bad abuse, lived in a tent in the winter, but I overcame it because of the systems that were in place. Great public schools, great health care, people feeding me breakfast because they knew where I was hungry, they didn't look the other way, and I'm running because people are struggling, and we can't look the other way with a very corrupt, very gerrymandered state, very corrupt state house, the most corrupt state house in the country. People in Ohio deserve better. I think we still remain the as goes Ohio, and we've got a lot of corruption piled on that. That's why I'm fighting this because, unlike what my opponent would do, he wants to get rid of our community colleges and universities. I'm here because I was able to work three jobs and commute to a six-year BSMD program and put myself through. This is about the kind of Ohio I grew up in where everyone has a chance to reach their full potential. That's what we're fighting for.

Speaker 1:
[24:35] James Carville.

Speaker 2:
[24:37] Doctor, just a personal question to start. You have how many children?

Speaker 3:
[24:41] I have six. We're a blended family. I didn't make all of them three and three and three grandkids at this point in counting and don't ask about the pets.

Speaker 2:
[24:50] Okay. I won't ask about the pets, but we'll ask you this is a personal question. You can refuse to ask it. How many of them have been taken the vaccines recommended by the American Pediatric Association?

Speaker 3:
[25:03] All of them did. They're all grown. My youngest is 29. Given our own kid, the vaccines, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[25:10] Right. I take it that you disagree with the current statement by the current HHS Secretary that you think that they're very important and should be required, I gather.

Speaker 3:
[25:21] This is so important. We gained 30 years life expectancy in one century. Of those 30 years from 1900 to 2000, only five were due to everything I learned in med school. The rest are due to things that we have to solve together. The common good, common sense things that catapulted us ahead of all of history. And now we might be looking at the first generation that doesn't live as long and healthy lives on average as their parents did. Vaccines were a big part of this. Unfortunately, what I used to tell the legislature, you know, James, is that when I do everything right in prevention, when I knock it out of the park, you don't see what we prevented, and therefore you don't fund it. And that therein lies the travesty and sad story of our public health victories over the last century.

Speaker 2:
[26:12] So I would like to ask both of you this question. I'm gonna start with you, Dr. Acton, because you've been the gubernatorial candidate. There's a peer from polling and it appears that it's likely to happen on election day, that there's been a massive re-evaluation of Donald Trump in Ohio. It's pretty clear if you look at the percent of votes that he got in 2024, which was frankly way too high, but he did. And the way is now, what do you ascribe this Ohio sort of turning away from megaism or Trumpism? What's driving this obvious phenomena?

Speaker 3:
[26:51] I can tell you, James, being on the ground and listening to people, that's what I'm trained to do. And I've gone everywhere. Quite frankly, I go places dems don't go. And we're seeing people show up, it doesn't know party, they're exhausted. They're exhausted by the hate and the chaos and the vitriol. They're tired of being pitted against one another, and life isn't getting better. So in a place like Youngstown, you saw it go Obama, then you see it go Trump, and now they're ready for change because things aren't getting better. And we have folks who tell me they voted for Trump three times. I have moms who don't like vaccines, who come. I used to go on conservative talk show radio every day alongside Governor DeWine to try to save lives. And there was a bond that happened that just is different kind of bond. And these moms love their kids too. They're getting some information and they're worried about their kids. So I think we got to go into this back in the old school way of doing politics and listen to the people in Ohioans are longing for change. We used to be at the top of every single measure. We're the seventh largest state. We're like the United States of Ohio. We have every demographic. David's dad used to run Procter and Gamble. We are the test market because we represent the whole United States. And I can't say this enough. We are in play getting help. All the Democratic governors believe Ohio is the flip opportunity. And when a state like Ohio goes, so goes the nation. This matters. I'm focused on this state. I am laser focused on making life affordable, ending corruption, and quite frankly, saving our public schools and libraries, something that saved my life as a kid, that my opponent is attacking systematically. But the thing is, what happens in Ohio matters. For the Senate, we got Sherrod Brown at the top of the ticket. It is a great top of the ticket. We've got Congress to keep getting folks in when they try to gerrymander. And it's going to affect 28. So, we need the states like Ohio that if you did it right, we're a slightly pink, maybe mostly independent thinking state of Ohio and to want to be at the top of health care and education and economic development and building great things again. That's what we deserve. But we've been stuck with a very gerrymandered, corrupt state house. And David's written endlessly on this. It is what they're doing to these state houses where mostly people don't pay attention.

Speaker 2:
[29:24] So, David, you're the great Ohio historian, the great lover of Ohio, the most Ohio person I've ever known. Do you know an institution that owes a great debt to the state of Ohio? Louisiana State University. Because our first president, our greatest athlete were born 40 miles from each other. Do you know their names?

Speaker 4:
[29:51] Say that last part again. Are you referring to Joe Burrow?

Speaker 2:
[29:56] I am referring to Joe Burrow. Yes, he's the greatest athlete.

Speaker 4:
[30:00] Yes, I'm sitting only a mile from where he plays football.

Speaker 2:
[30:04] The first president of LSU grew up 40 miles from Joe Burrow. You might have heard of him. His name is WT. Sherman.

Speaker 4:
[30:12] Oh my gosh, really?

Speaker 2:
[30:13] Quite an impact on American history.

Speaker 4:
[30:15] Yeah, I'll say. Wow, that's two great Ohioans.

Speaker 2:
[30:18] Yes, we like Ohio at LSU.

Speaker 4:
[30:23] By the way, because of Burrow, my kids wear LSU jerseys. So the fandom has come from LSU back to Ohio.

Speaker 2:
[30:31] There you go. So is there any chance for any Democratic house pickups in Ohio at LSU? Definitely go to you. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Speaker 3:
[30:42] I will say yes. We definitely, so crucial, we have at least six house, if not eight house seats in play. We need six and we have people, thanks to David, thanks to people like Dick Celeste and others. We have people running in every single district in Ohio. If we get six more house seats and it looks like we can do it with this wave we're seeing, that breaks the supermajority and the governor's veto can stand and that of course is priceless. Even Governor DeWine has not been able to stop the most extreme things that have been coming out of the state house. Then quite frankly, we have to turn around and we need to end gerrymandering in our state, which we had a bipartisan business group looking at that with a Supreme Court Justice, Maureen O'Connor, Republican Supreme Court Justice and they literally rewrote the language to make in this lawless way to make it confusing to people so they didn't know what they were voting for when 80 some percent of Ohioans want to end this thing. Those two things, plus the governor jarring the door open and David and I, David, the worst enemy of corruption there could be. There's a lot we can do and we've seen states turn around. This election is just so vitally important.

Speaker 2:
[31:56] So David, how corrupt was Larry Hohaus? Because I have a theory he might be the most corrupt. I think in Louisiana, people think we're corrupt. I've never seen shit like this, man. How much money are we talking about?

Speaker 4:
[32:10] The whole thing was gobsmacking. I think it was $60 million overall bribery scheme and his big mistake was that he started funneling it to help him play for a new porch for his condo in Florida. But James and Al, my bigger issue beyond these individual schemes, every two years we've had speakers resign, arrests, FBI investigations every two years. But the bigger problem in these hyper-gerrymandered state houses, it's the broader corruption of public service itself, where these institutions, they're no longer serving the public good at all. They are using public power and public assets to simply on an ongoing basis support private players. You know, we're underfunding our schools, people are hungry, we're paying more for health care, but they gave $600 million for the Cleveland Browns to move his stadium a few miles south. On and on and on, we are seeing so much public school money converted into private for-profit companies while we undermine our schools, and those private companies give money back to the politicians. So the reason why Ohio outcomes are falling so much, and the reason why Ohio voters are paying more is because the place it's supposed to be looking out for public interest is simply using that power to help private interests. So there's a deeper corruption happening. This is just, this is not only an Ohio story, but we are maybe the worst case study of just how bad it can get once you have a system that's only accountable to the people.

Speaker 2:
[33:40] So before I let you go, there's been a great interview on the turn of Al to conclude it.

Speaker 1:
[33:44] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, James, I'm sorry. I got a couple more questions.

Speaker 2:
[33:48] I saw I'm turning it over to you. I said I'm turning it over to Al to complete the show, okay?

Speaker 4:
[33:56] Break it up, break it up, guys.

Speaker 2:
[33:58] Before I let you go, I have to quote Lougha Citi O'Hearn, one of the great writers to ever come from Ohio, who wrote about New Orleans. Times are not good here. The city is crumbling into ashes. It is buried under taxes and frauds and maladministrations that has become a study for archaeologists. But it is better to live here in sackcloth and ashes than to own the whole state of Ohio. So that is Lougha Citi O'Hearn.

Speaker 3:
[34:30] No.

Speaker 4:
[34:32] That's a heck of a quote. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[34:35] Wow, Jimmy, that hurts. One thing we have not touched on Dr. Acton is energy costs that are soaring out there in Buckeye land. You know, is there anything you can do about it in the related issues? Maybe data centers in the booming AI prospects.

Speaker 3:
[34:51] Well, first of all, let me say that I stood up to Larry Householder. I actually wouldn't sign orders he wanted that frankly would have killed people. I didn't sign those orders and two weeks later, he was arrested in that largest scandal, 60 million in bribes, more than any other state in the country. I received a Profile in Courage award for that. We're now in the library, Carolyn Nersung Jack called. We know what we're up against and yeah, we know what we're up against. David and I, eyes wide open. But here's the thing, we don't have an energy policy in Ohio. It got so corrupt through our Utilities Commission that we actually have to have an energy policy. I want an all of the above. Ohio should actually be a net energy exporter. It has incredible resources, but certain industries have been lobbying and limiting parts of them. We have great manufacturers and solar. We right now have a decommissioning uranium site in Ohio and Piked in Ohio, that there's actually a company out of California that has learned how to de-enrich uranium, which is like the stuff of dreams because we know what a nightmare that is, and can actually use it in small scale nuclear fusion. We've got hydrogen, solar, all the renewables, and we have fracking. But what David and I always say is, when we do things like fracking, what we want is we want good union paying jobs. We want the whole pipeline to be in Ohio. Right now, a lot of it, you get the asset, but then it goes somewhere else and enriches another state. When we agreed to do this, we wanted the turbines in Ohio. We wanted the whole pipeline to be there, and we want the money to go back and help communities. Data centers is no different. We know we face an AI world that we're in, and Ohio is a leader in this. But we absolutely want to be transparent with communities, so they have a say in this. We want to make sure they bring their own energy, which the best are already doing. They don't quite need the tax incentives. They are also saying that. Now, we want to make sure we're keeping the water safe and doing those things as well. But there's a way to make data centers work for Ohio, not the other way around. So we need to insist that we are doing the things in Ohio that help our communities grow and thrive.

Speaker 1:
[37:17] You have openly said that you were a victim of sexual abuse as a child. Your opponent, Mr. Ramaswamy, said in contrast to his vision, you and I want to quote, quote, quote, complain about what someone else did to you, end quote.

Speaker 3:
[37:35] Yeah. Well, thanks for saying that. I'm not alone in my story of my childhood. Fifty percent of kids are living in poverty in Ohio, up to 70 percent in some places. My story is not unique. I've spent my whole life fighting for victims of crime, abuse. I'm a child advocate. This is my background fighting for this. I share my story because I want people to not feel alone. I want them to understand. My brother and I went through a lot over a long period of time, which also included sexual abuse. But that actually made me stronger. It made me who I am. It's why I can't look the other way when I see things I can't unsee. We're all being asked to see things, not see the things we're seeing. But this is a moment where we can't be afraid. We have to lean in and have the courage to not look the other way. That's what drives my whole life. My opponent, literally, I think for him, he wrote a whole book on not being a victim. His whole motif is this very disturbed thing that doesn't understand that all of us need each other to get ahead in this world. It wasn't for public schools, I say, my life. It was for good neighbors who didn't look the other way. You remember the people who look away and you remember the people who don't. Well, my opponent is looking the other way when so many people struggle with these issues and to actually blame people for that. It is not a weakness. Kindness, by the way, is not a weakness. Kindness is fierce. It's a fierce commitment to justice and seeing the humanity in one another. I'm tired of these cowards and bullies trying to take us backwards. There's no one I'd rather take on. I have the very best bad guy in the world. Ohio is in play and we really need everyone's help. I hope everyone will help join us. He is a self-funding billionaire. He fell behind in the fundraising this time, so he's stocking 25,000 more bucks of his own money because we're probably going to show numbers here that beat fundraising in this last quarter. We're setting a record for Democratic candidates in Ohio, the most-raised, and guys, I started with nothing, no war chests, nothing. But we're not afraid of it. We're going to tell Mr. Rameswamy, you cannot buy Ohio, you can't buy the state, and you can't buy us. And what we're seeing is a movement of the people ready, ready to not look the other way and push back.

Speaker 1:
[40:00] I'm going to ask a final question to David and then James will close everything out. You talked about scandals. Ohio State just had to, the president just had to resign for abuse of office, inappropriate relationship. The university still hasn't come clean about the sexual abuse of athletes years ago, including what did Jim Jordan know and what did he do? Jordan was then an assistant wrestling coach at Ohio State, now a powerful congressman. Would an Acton Pepper administration be more transparent about these abuses at your state university?

Speaker 4:
[40:37] Dr. Acton, you want to start with that and let me conclude on that?

Speaker 3:
[40:40] I just want to say, I'm doing a massive call to public service. I'm so honored to have David Pepper as my running mate. You know, I got to know him over time. I learned from so many great people around this country. As I said, I'm not a politician. My last election was in high school. But I've learned a lot about how to fight this corruption. And our commitment is that no one in the state will be unseen, that we will be transparent. We're going to get our hands around endless nooks and crannies that aren't working the way they're supposed to do for Ohioans. And then we're going to build the structures with a call to public service of people who want to be public servants again. We don't care what party you are as much as you want to solve problems and not make them. And we're seeing people on both sides of the aisle now ready to make that change in Ohio.

Speaker 1:
[41:31] And you guys are going to make Ohio State accountable for what they've done?

Speaker 4:
[41:37] What I'd say is, I mean, one of the most powerful things that the governor has is appointments to boards. And we obviously want to make sure that we're getting people on many of these, all sorts of boards, but obviously none more important than this, this, you know, anchor institution, the state, to have a board that starts to get to the bottom of what's been sort of consistent, these consistent problems coming up and bring accountability, but also clearly a new ethic that we don't keep stumbling into all this with an institution. Just as proud as James is of LSU, Ohioans are very proud of Ohio State, and we need to have a board and an institution that lives up to that and gets beyond, Al, the kind of continuous things that just keep coming up.

Speaker 1:
[42:20] James, I will turn it over to you to really close this.

Speaker 2:
[42:24] I just want to make an observation, and I know that both of you realize this, but to most of America, me included, Ohio is a very special place. I mean, this was the kind of first, the Northwest Ordinance is probably part of the funding sacred document of the United States. You think of the people that have come from the, just think of the relationship of hire and flight. Let's try to write, brothers, a couple of half-assed people. John Glenn, what about Neil Armstrong? Okay. So I just want from me to you, from a guy from Louisiana, saying to you what a special place that we think, people like me think Ohio is and how happy we'll be to see people that understand the uniqueness of the great state of Ohio in the Governor's office and the Lieutenant Governor's office. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I really do.

Speaker 3:
[43:20] Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[43:21] I just say one more thing. This is a comment. Not very long ago, I was at Ohio University, which people tend to forget about, which is a great place.

Speaker 3:
[43:34] Amazing.

Speaker 2:
[43:35] Amazing place.

Speaker 1:
[43:36] Athens, Ohio.

Speaker 2:
[43:39] They tend to get overshadowed sometimes by Ohio State, but I did want to pay very high compliment to the people at Ohio University. I went out there and showed the movie and had Q&A, and I thought from the faculty member, to the community, to the students, it was just an amazing place. I'm pulling for you so much, and I hope that you all realize with a special place that it is that you're trying to turn around and lead. So thank you.

Speaker 3:
[44:08] Thank you. We hope people will join us, actinforgovernor.com. Great way to learn more about what we're fighting for and what we're fighting for. As goes Ohio, so goes the nation. We need everyone's help. We can do this. We need your help. Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[44:24] Let me brag for a second. We acted for governor.com in the last month, despite all his spending, and Vivek Ramaswamy raised like 20-something million. He spent almost all of it. Despite all that, we have been tighter in head in every poll for the last several months. Amy is the single highest approved figure in the state of Ohio. It's not even close. And Vivek Ramaswamy, for a reason we talked about and then some, has been deeply underwater. So we have a real shot here and we appreciate everyone's help to take this opportunity and convert into a victory in a few months.

Speaker 1:
[44:58] Well, that's what you get when you run a pediatrician to office. I say as the son of a pediatrician, listen, we thank both of you. This has really been an interesting conversation and I hope we both get to Ohio.

Speaker 2:
[45:10] And tell all my friends in Athens hello.

Speaker 3:
[45:12] I will hope to see you both soon.

Speaker 1:
[45:15] Be well.

Speaker 3:
[45:15] Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[45:17] Thanks, guys. Take care.

Speaker 2:
[45:26] Keep your cat odor-free with foxy. Well, try smelling the odors, then you'll understand the importance. But I'm gonna tell you one thing, this is one product that you're gonna get 48 hours after you get a cat, I promise you.

Speaker 1:
[45:40] Maybe 24, you know, because what you told me, cats would act like the president of the house and the litter box seemed like their oval office. Now you could draw a connection to 47, but you'd be wrong, because James got to enjoy his cats without the stench because of the incredible litter made by Boxy. This podcast is sponsored by Boxy. To fill you in, Boxy is the last cat litter you'll switch to, and their Boxy Pro Deep Clean is the best cat litter money can buy. The Pro in Boxy Pro stands for Probiotics, which Boxy puts right in the litter. They gobble up odor-causing bacteria and keep the box continuously odor-free. It really is amazing. Yes, I did say continuously. Not for 10 days or 20 days. Instead, you get infinite days continually free of odor. You know, your cat has a better sense of smell than you do, and they won't smell anything either. There are no fake sense, which means your cats will have one less reason to avoid their box. And for a limited time, get 30 percent off your first order plus free shipping when you head to boxycat.com/warroom and use the code war room. Unlike so many of the things we buy, boxy gets used every day. That's where its tech makes a huge difference. With boxy, you don't need to do full litter changes. You just scoop and top it off with fresh boxy litter. That's it. You'll quickly find that you're saving a ton of money, and we can all appreciate affordability these days. Every cat lover we know is never going back to the old stuff. We already know cats are amazing pets, and we're convinced that once you go odor-free with boxy, you'll agree that they're just about perfect. Boxy holds itself to a higher standard with 100% US source clay and thoughtful ingredients, no additives and no fillers. So if you're tired or switching litters, looking for the one, get 30% off your boxy order at BOXIECATCOM slash WAR ROOM and use the code WAR ROOM. That's BOXIECATCOM slash WAR ROOM and make sure you use my code WAR ROOM so they'll know that we sent you. Hey, we have a really interesting guess. Bobby Padillo, who was best known as the Latin Grammy Award-winning singer, but now the Democrats see him as the one who can pull off one of the biggest upsets of the year in a South Texas district that stretches, Bobby, correct me if I'm wrong, 250 miles from San Antonio down to the Mexican border. Is that really the size of your district?

Speaker 5:
[48:42] It's actually from Gonzales County, so it's probably a little bit more all the way down to the border, but it's not San Antonio. My district is pretty much all rural.

Speaker 1:
[48:53] It's big. Well, it's also a district that Trump carried by 17, the incumbent, your opponent, Monica Delacroix won by 14. Republicans have said this is emblematic of the massive gains they have made with Latino voters who are a majority in your district. Does that make your quest uphill?

Speaker 5:
[49:14] Actually, that's not exactly the case. This is a part of the gerrymandering that they did. So 60% of this district is new to her. So it's not the one that she won by 14 points. It's quite different, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1:
[49:31] But they say she actually would have won this district by even more.

Speaker 5:
[49:37] That's not true. That's not true. Actually, it's part of the dummymandering. We've seen in 2022, when Ken Paxton was challenged by Rochelle Garza in this district, she lost it by less than one point to Ken Paxton in 2022. So it's red, but it's very winnable.

Speaker 1:
[50:01] Talk about it being winnable. And it's not winnable if they do as well as they claim they have done and did do with Latino voters. But I think you will argue it's different this time. Why?

Speaker 5:
[50:15] Oh, it's completely different. I mean, there's been so many people that really, really have regretted their vote. There's a lot of buyer's remorse down here. But look, I've known that this district, like the back of my hand for years, my father's a musician and I've also, he's toured that whole area. We have lots of friends up in all of South Texas, to be honest with you. And look, my district is really rural. I'm a rural guy myself. I'm a rural Democrat. And the last time around, the first time when she beat the same person twice, the first time it was basically a progressive running in a district that was drawn to be red, which is really hard to win. So the district is very, very, very doable. Beto O'Rourke won it in 2018 by almost 10 points. So it's not a traditionally red district.

Speaker 1:
[51:14] People looking at it from the outside will say, okay, immigration, that basically most voters, last time reason Trump did better than any other Republican with Latino voters was that most voters thought that the Biden border policy was a problem. They didn't like a populist border. On the other hand, today, you read, and I've seen surveys that most don't like the brutality of Trump's ice force. So kind of a two-part question, where does that shake at in the 15th district? And would you favor abolishing ice?

Speaker 5:
[51:53] It breaks down into two things, Al. One thing is the border security, which right now I think everybody is okay with that because people are not coming like they were a long time ago. So that's one issue that people are happy with. It's the enforcement part that really bothers a lot of the people because how they're doing it. They said they were going to go after the bad people. They did probably for the first three weeks and then they started going, Stephen Miller started issuing quotas and then racial profiling and they violated even Fourth Amendment clauses by just going into houses without a judicial warrant. People are really angry with how they're doing it. Right now the problem people have with is with enforcement.

Speaker 1:
[52:41] Would you abolish ICE?

Speaker 5:
[52:44] You know what? I don't know. At some point, what we're going to have to do, we're going to have to have some type of enforcement arm to get the bad people out, right? Before ICE came in, after the Patriot Act was instituted, it was something else, right? I think it was INS is what they would do, but we're going to have to have some type of deportation force for the people that do bad things and need to get deported. So I don't think abolishing ICE, it's an easy catchphrase, but I think it gets the Trump administration off the hook for how they're using ICE. The problem is not ICE, it's how they're being used right now by the administration. It's the quotas, it's all the things that they're doing right now that really truly give ICE the reputation that it has.

Speaker 1:
[53:37] Bobby, I'm going to turn it over to James for the first one really hard-hitting question. When campaigning, how often do you break into song?

Speaker 5:
[53:46] Well, we go to ranch halls, we do like a thing called ranch halls. So I'll go, we'll feed them barbecue, we'll play Cajun music, but I won't play at Cajun music. I have a band that's playing. We go and give them a stump speech, answer its Q&A, and then at the very end, I finish by singing a song. So yeah, we do include the music while it lasts.

Speaker 1:
[54:11] James, we got to get to South Texas. Go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[54:14] We got it, man. This is just guy, this is one of my favorite candidates of the whole cycle. So tell me, what prompted you to say, I'm going to do this? Here you are, a very successful singer. You got a whole life, and you say, gee, I'm going to get into politics, I'm going to have to campaign every night, I'm going to have to like suck up and this and that. What made you cross the Jordan inside to do this?

Speaker 5:
[54:37] You know, James, I was a political science major in college. I wanted to be a lawyer. I've always been fascinated with politics. Bill Clinton growing up, you know, was my favorite. And of course, I was a fan of all the work that you did with him. And I always wanted to get into politics, but music kind of got in the way. I come from a musical family, and I really started seeing in 2022, is when I started looking at this and thinking about it, because I didn't like the way things were going and the representation that we were having down here. For the first time ever, you know, pretty much in modern history, we had a Republican representative. And so I started thinking about doing that. And, you know, it first started out as, I want my life to mean something more than just music. And there could be no greater, to me, no greater compliment than to be able to serve your people. And I think it's worth it. It's really hard. You go from a thing where you're really loved and then you're taking all kinds of shots and you don't sleep and it's tough. But, you know, if you're going to want to help people, it's worth it.

Speaker 2:
[55:51] So, Bobby, you had a primary. You didn't just walk into this, as I understand it. Who was your primary opponent and how much did you win the primary by?

Speaker 5:
[56:04] My primary opponent was a self-funded doctor and lawyer. Her name is Ada Cuellar. And she spent almost right around a million dollars of her own money against us and we ended up winning with 67.5% of the vote.

Speaker 2:
[56:22] And as I understand it, but correct me if I'm wrong, she kind of ran to the left of you. Is that correct?

Speaker 5:
[56:29] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[56:30] For sure.

Speaker 5:
[56:32] Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[56:33] For sure. Since they won when we started, you had a well-funded left-wing candidate that you won by 67%.

Speaker 5:
[56:40] Yes. Look, this is something that since they won, I told everybody I am going to run a general election campaign even in the primary. I am not going to, typically, you'll shift left. And she tried kind of pulling me that way with a lot of issues. We did not play that game. We stayed, I think authenticity is important in campaigning. And we stayed right exactly where we were. We never moved, we never wavered. And we won with a very good margin. And yes, the New York Times framed it as the progressive versus the moderate. And I think people down here in South Texas, especially the Hispanic community are very religious, very Catholic. So there's a lot of conservative Democrats down here. By nature, I think our people are very culturally conservative. It's just a part of understanding the electorate. And that's why we also feel very good about our chances in the general election.

Speaker 2:
[57:43] So obviously, there are a lot of Hispanic, you know, culturally conservative Catholics who happen to like the Pope. Do you think that Trump fighting with Pope Leo is hurting or helping Republicans in South Texas? Call on me to ask them all.

Speaker 5:
[58:00] Oh, gosh, please.

Speaker 1:
[58:04] Heck, that's, that's, that's tougher, James. Am I or are you singing in the campaign trail question? Go ahead, Bobby.

Speaker 5:
[58:11] No. Oh, I am not. Absolutely not going to do that. This is a extremely, extremely Catholic and yes, people are not happy at all with that, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[58:21] That's what we need. A South Texas politician would courage to say, I'm not going to talk to both. Pretty good idea. It's a Spanish-speaking vote. At any rate, how much do you find that the Democratic brand that you have to answer for it, that in people's mind has become something other than what you and I have always thought has been? Are you asked that a lot on the trail, and how do you answer it when you're asked that?

Speaker 5:
[58:56] You know, yes, that was definitely something that's always been in the discussion, right? And I tell everybody, look, progressive policies may work good in cities, and it's okay. But cities are much different than rural America. We've lost rural America as Democrats. And I'll tell you, in the cities, they have cars that are driving around without people. There's robots delivering food. Just, you know, cities embrace change. In the rural areas, people don't want you to make their lives different. They just want you to make their lives better. And I think that understanding what people really want, and talking about the issues and affordability, and I don't mean it to bring it up. But when you said it's the economy stupid, that's like times 10 in the Hispanic community. Because the Hispanic community, in our DNA, we come from nothing. Most of us are sons or daughters of immigrants, or grandsons, or whatever. So for us, upward mobility is a big thing. And I do think that the Democratic Party needs to talk more of an economic message instead of just social issues, which are important too. But I think in the Hispanic, and you saw it, I think we lost the presidency because truly the Democrats lost the Hispanic vote. Right.

Speaker 2:
[60:17] But one thing you said, I just, just a little piece of advice, when you get to Washington and you're going to get there, understand you got to be in the Hispanic Caucus, but be sure you get in the rural caucus, all right? Rural people are forgotten even more than Hispanic people are forgotten in this country, okay? Rural America in a Democratic Party basically does not exist. And people like you, and to the extent I have time left, have to remind people of the solemn obligation that we have to people who live in rural America. And this is really hurting. This is really hurting. I don't have to tell you what fertilizer costs and how much petroleum projects go into fertilizer, which of course is passed on to you. So before we go, I got to ask you to do this. I know it's very undignified, but just give us a cappella, a couple of bars of a song that you sing to your crowds. We can bring the joy of your music to all of our listeners.

Speaker 1:
[61:18] That's a great idea, James. I think that's the perfect way to end this segment. So I just have a couple more questions for Bobby. You did mention the social issues, one of which is abortion. It came up in your primary. She said you were opposed to Roe v. Wade. You have said, I believe you are pro-life, but the government shouldn't tell people whether they can or cannot get an abortion.

Speaker 2:
[61:41] Clarify that.

Speaker 5:
[61:43] Yes. You know, look, they kind of clipped where I said, I'm personally a pro-life, but pro-life is a choice. That's my choice, right? I would not entertain the idea of it, but that doesn't mean that it's my place to tell somebody else what they could do. So they kind of deceptively edited that and it kind of framed things in a different light. But I think, look, a lot of people here, that's a sensitive issue, and it's something that's been politicized heavily, and I don't want to be a part of politicizing it. Listen, I don't want women dying because of sepsis or because they've got... And really, really, we have serious draconian abortion laws in Texas that the people don't choose, much like the gerrymandering. They don't let the people decide, but it's just, look, my faith is my faith. I'm not going to run away from it, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to implement my faith on everybody else. I think we need to get back to respecting people.

Speaker 1:
[62:42] Just a couple more before we turn it back to James. How do people down there feel about the Iranian war?

Speaker 5:
[62:50] I think every time they go put gas, it pisses them off even more. I don't think they're very happy with that. It's not a popular war down here.

Speaker 1:
[63:00] Yeah. Finally, for me, would you, will the Senate, US Senate candidate, Democratic candidate, James Talarico, plus or minus for you in your district?

Speaker 5:
[63:13] Oh, he won my district very, very well.

Speaker 1:
[63:16] In the primary, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[63:18] I endorsed James Talarico early on. So we had a rally here and we had several already actually. So we're behind him and we hope he wins. It won't be an easy deal, but I do think he can win. I do think he can pull it off.

Speaker 1:
[63:36] James Carville, go ahead. Do you have a question or two before the grand finale?

Speaker 2:
[63:41] Yeah. Only my question is up because Bobby, I really enjoyed speaking to you so much. I have this enormous respect for you and I just want to reiterate what I said is be a son of rural America because you know, but a lot of people after the 2024 election, and I have this opinion, although I'm not Hispanic, that no party owns Hispanic voters and that everybody said, Oh, 2024, that I'll turn Republican. They didn't know such thing and then when they saw that he didn't deliver that they're completely changing their minds. So, we should be very careful and I think that you understand that if you get in, just because you're Hispanic doesn't mean that you're entitled to their vote. You're going to have to work every day to do things that matters to our community to retain that vote. And I hope that you explain that.

Speaker 5:
[64:41] That's right.

Speaker 2:
[64:42] It is identity people who think that identity governs everything, which it does know such thing. But those are just some things that I know that you will, and it's one of the reasons I'm so enthusiastic about your candidacy, is I think you're going to be one of the people that go to Washington who are not from Washington, who's actually from Hidalgo County. And so many people go and forget that. So this is my little pep talk and attaboy, and you go get them and you're done. All right, so give us just a couple of thoughts so we can hear the great man.

Speaker 5:
[65:19] Before I give you a bar, I just want to point out that when people, everybody talks about Starr County and how it went red, right? Henry Cuellar also, he even won by a bigger margin than Donald Trump did in Starr County. So the people down here vote for the candidate. They vote for the candidate that talks to them and speaks about the issues that's important to them. So, and that's what we're going to continue to do. So here I go.

Speaker 2:
[65:58] My man, the greatest congressional candidate in any party in this cycle. The old wives, the old knowing, the old connected.

Speaker 1:
[66:07] We have set a precedent which we may not be able to equal again, a song in the end. Bobby, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, man.

Speaker 5:
[66:16] Thank you all so much. I just want to invite everybody to go and bobbypulidofortexas.com. That's our website. You can find out all the information on our campaign and how to donate.

Speaker 2:
[66:26] And you can still check that too. There's a little place if they want to send you a, you know, a peso or two, they can do that also. Yes.

Speaker 5:
[66:34] Yes, sir.

Speaker 2:
[66:35] Absolutely. All right. You just heard from the best candidate of this cycle. If you need to use my name, send out fundraising letters, just sign it. Shit, I'm all for you. Okay, dude. Thank you. Upgrade your digital business with Shopify. How important? It gives you a leg up on opposition because if the people that you're working against or your competitors using it, you don't have it, you're gonna lose.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[72:22] Yeah. Which point of point? Good point. I can't wait and see if he tries to negotiate it away. But let me tell you, they're getting a lot of crap for this. I mean, Dan Rather and a couple of other people have come out chastising the White House correspondents and telling them they got to do the tough things and ask the tough questions. Further matter is, there's been a lot of capitulation in journalism. You know, most of it, I mean, it's a corporate level, but that's who owns the journal. They own all this. We had the more that you can bring, the better. Mild rage is that there was a study published in the London-based medical journal, the one that I think it was the Lancet, that found that cuts to the USID will result in a death of 1,776,539 deaths in children aged five years or younger. Now, you're a pro-life party? Are you kidding me? Nothing could make these people look any stupider than this, that we're killing kids around the world over the stupid cuts. Over the remainder of the period, the study continues to complete the funding of USID with a mountain to 2,450,000 all-age deaths annually. Now, for the amount of, and I'll give the USAID credit, they get a lot of bang for their buck. And we can't beat for saving 2.5 million lives. But the Trump administration is pro-life. What a fucking pack of clowns that they are. Protect yourself online with DeleteMe. God, let me go through the number of people whose stuff has been hacked and made public. And even if you're not a public figure, they're gonna hack your data, they're gonna sell you a bunch of stuff, they're gonna sell your name, they're gonna sell everything that you got. And if you got anything else, they'll blackmail you. It's so important, it's ridiculously important.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[77:11] Well, that's a good question. A lot of it depends on the Congress and Democrats having control of both the House and the Senate. I suspect that's going to happen, but the suspicion is not a fact. So it can go two ways. If the House and the Senate are Democratic, and the President is a Democrat, a lot of these things can be undone, like USAID, which is costing 2.5 million deaths. I mean, from day one, we can save 2.5 million lives. But it goes on and on and on. And again, I go back to my proposal. It's very hard for Democrats to carry the Senate because 18% of the country elects 52 senators. I think this could be the cycle when we do it, and we got to be sure that in addition to everything else that we do, we make this a more Democratic and responsive country, and that would go a long way. I do think adding Puerto Rico in the history of Columbia as a state makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1:
[78:14] I would just add to that, I think some things can be done quickly, some things will take a long time. Getting all those scientists back will not happen in a year, or even in an administration.

Speaker 2:
[78:28] The other thing that we need to do, I think before we leave this question, we need to investigate the corruption and get the money back in the US Treasury and out of the pockets if and when we prove that there are crooked deals that went on and there were actually people profiting off the taxpayers of the United States. I think it's a very big issue.

Speaker 1:
[78:49] Yeah. Duncan in Vancouver, British Columbia asks, if the Republicans get the top two spots in the California gubernatorial primary, would both candidates pivot to the left in the general election? Duncan, I can save you time, it's not going to happen. The Republicans are not going to get the first two spots. I'm glad Trump endorsed one of them, because I think that'll put him way ahead of the other one. The Democrats, already a couple are dropping out. They're going to coalesce. Some people will, I'm waiting to see what Nancy Pelosi and others do. Steyer is a front-runner now, but there are a couple of attractive candidates in the bottom tier. Becerra, who was the former Attorney General and Health Commissioner, the Mayor of San Jose, one of them, I think, is going to rise. And I think it will be that person or Steyer who will be in the runoff. It will not be two Republicans in the runoff.

Speaker 2:
[79:42] Yeah, I agree with you. Because there's a possibility that something could happen, doesn't mean that it will happen. But I get this question a lot. Democrats love to worry about improbable situations. But it is true that this is a possibility. And it is also true that the chances that this happens are pretty remote, but not, you can't say it's impossible. But what I'm calling for more is a change in attitude among Democrats as opposed to, oh my God, we could lose this to, oh my God, maybe we'll have two Democrats in a runoff, which is also possible. Don't discount that possibility. But anyway, there are some good people out there running. I think that's happened before. Right.

Speaker 1:
[80:36] Yeah. I mean, that has happened before, but I think you're right. It's more likely to have two Democrats in their own authenticist to have two Republicans in their runoff.

Speaker 2:
[80:45] But it is mathematically impossible. We have to conceive that they could hate two Republicans.

Speaker 1:
[80:51] Yeah, it is. Yeah. James, this is Greg in Atlanta, who said, the two front runners for the Georgia governor's race are extreme. This is on the Republican side, are extreme MAGA, and they may win the primary, but they'll be vulnerable in general. What can we do to help who is Greg's favorite candidate, Michael Thurman, win the Democratic nomination? He calls him the most credentialed candidate to run. I haven't followed George as closely as you have, so what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2:
[81:19] First of all, Michael Thurman is a friend of mine, and has been a friend of mine for a long time. And Michael was the executive of DeKalb County, the administrator, which is a huge county. His, I see, Mayor, former mayor of Atlanta, Lance Bottoms, there's Lance Bottoms as one, and he should be a formidable candidate. But I think either one of these two would be very formidable. And I also think that this is an opportunity, as do most people not, Ossoff is gonna win, okay? You can go ahead, mark that in a W column. By the way, who has turned out to be one of the better candidates of this cycle? And I don't think, I would have said this, over six years, there's been more growth in the skill of political communications and articulation than John Ossoff. Nobody in the party has improved to the extent that he has. He is now a top tier candidate. He is going to win by more than five points. That's pretty clear.

Speaker 1:
[82:23] Yeah, he was the walk on six years ago. Yeah, you're right, he's really now.

Speaker 2:
[82:28] He got excited, he lost it, he came back and he ran for Senate and they were making fun of him because he was a former documentary filmmaker, he was a Jewish candidate running in Georgia as if that makes a fuck, but people have to allow people to indulge in their own fantasies. The guys just come a long way and not only could we win the governorship, but listen to what I'm telling you, we might win the state house. Georgia may be one of the biggest success stories of this century in terms of democratic politics. Now, what they're going to do, I'm going to tell you just what they did in Nevada, which was a great, great success story. The idiot progressives went in and they took over the party. They're trying to pull off the same stuff in Colorado because what we're too successful. Watch out, when we start winning in Georgia, you're going to see the progressive left try to come in, and by the way, we got a great party chair in Georgia. If you want to help John, and you want to help the Charles candidate, you want to help win the state Senate, then I suggest you send money to Charlie Bailey and to the Georgia Democratic Party which is an A plus operation. You saw that the biggest closure of expected gap was in that Georgia 14th, where we didn't even get to talking of that candidate yet, who has distinguished himself, is one of the great fools in the United States who claimed, and I want you all to get this now, he is now a member of the United States Congress who claimed that he was a stand in a hotel in Maryland and they cut the electricity off, the air conditioning off because of the Green New Deal. I don't know what the fuck he's even talking about. He further stated that he was from Georgia, state that was named after George Washington. Oh, really? Most people were under the impression. It was named after King George. It was Georgia before the country, but when you're that stupid, what difference does it make? He also said that Ronald Cunha was born in Georgia. Of course, he was born in no such place. He was born in Venezuela. Sorry, man, you're that stupid. Then he said, it's this kind of mentality, the reason that Maryland has never won an SEC title. When you're going for the dumbest motherfucker in American politics, this man is part of the conversation. He's not as dumb as the guy that got teleported to the Waffle House in Rome, Georgia. But maybe this guy met him at the Waffle House when he was teleported. I don't know. But there's a lot.

Speaker 1:
[85:16] Do not overlook Tommy Tuberville. Really. I mean, he is just target to Tommy.

Speaker 2:
[85:22] But if you show me your Tommy Tuberville part, I'm going to warn up you and show you Cindy Hyde Smith. But we're trying to stay within the Peach Day. Mr. Fitted.

Speaker 1:
[85:36] I don't know Michael Thurman. Everything I've heard about him is very, very complimentary. I have a little worry he's in his mid-70s. I'm not sure this is a year in which age is not going to be a problem. And Mayor Bottoms is, I think, about 50. I'm not taking a position on it because I don't know enough. But I worry a little bit about any candidate not named Sherrod Brown who's running in their 70s this year.

Speaker 2:
[86:03] You know, I like Michael. But again, we'll wait and see what happens. But he's experienced and he's relentlessly honest. That's one thing that Michael has a well-justified reputation for. He's as great as an Arab, a bored guy. But you're right, he is old and he'll have to deal with that.

Speaker 1:
[86:22] Will in Boise, Idaho, asked how much does a candidate's profile matter for independents trying to break through in Senate races? They have one in Will State of Idaho. But there was a piece in the Atlantic the other day that there's a huge fight going on in Montana. Democrats are furious that some Democrats like John Tester are supporting an independent candidate. We've talked about Seth Bodner, who is a former president of the University of Montana, a Rhodes Scholar, army decorated hero and all that. There's a very simple answer to that. The Democrats will have a primary in June. They will nominate a candidate. Come, I don't know, mid-August, whenever it is, you can take a look. If it's a close race, there's no case for the Democrat dropping out. If however, it looks like the Republican and Bodner are running one, two, and the Democrat, the brand name is not very good out there, as Senator Chester says, is way behind, then there ought to be pressure on him or her to drop out. Same with Bodner. I think that's the only answer. You want to win that seat. Whichever candidate is best suited to defeat the Republican candidate, ought to get behind the other in the last, whatever it is, 60 days.

Speaker 2:
[87:42] So, the title of the documentary made about me is a perfect encapsulation of my political philosophy. It is called, Winning Is Everything, Stupid. That is the purpose of politics, is to win elections, and to win elections that will profoundly matter to people's life. So, if somebody is running for the Senate, and is running as an independent, but says, I'm going to caucus with the Democrats, I think Senator King, Senator Sanders, both do that, why not do it? If he has a better chance of winning, then somebody that is running under the Democratic label, but who in effect is pledged that he would be part of the Democrats. Why not do it? What are you talking about? You're not here to build a stronger party, you're not here to make a point, you're not here to do anything, you're here to win the goddamn election. If we got a better chance, if there's a better chance with an independent who has, embraces most of the ideas and does not want to run with all the jackass left-wing stupidity and is without, go cat and go, I'm for you. Totally. Winning is everything. Understand that. Drill that in your vapid, empty goddamn head.

Speaker 1:
[88:56] Yeah, and you know, the same issue exists in, as I say, in Will's state of Idaho and Nebraska. Now, I don't know how, I don't know how strong those independent candidates will look come August 20th. I have a gut feeling that certainly in Montana that Bodner, if he's a good candidate and John Tester thinks he will be, my guess is he's going to look like the one that has a better chance of beating the Republican. But I don't know that yet. But that, you're right, that ought to be the criteria. By the way, Angus King, Democrats have done pretty damn well in Maine since Angus King was elected as an independent. They controlled the governorship, they control both houses of the state house. So the sole issue should be winning. I agree. Pat, our next question is from Montana. Pat in Billings, Montana, he asked, why doesn't the Pope just excommunicate JD Vance? He joined the church just to get the Catholic vote, Pat charges.

Speaker 2:
[90:10] So this is interesting. JD Vance, JD Vance is a toad, spiritual advisor, and the person that got him to be a Catholic was Juan Roger, who is a friend of mine, who's actually from Baton Rouge. He is probably the leading intellectual on the, I don't know if it's that traditionalist Catholic group, but nationalistic, I don't know. But Rod is very influential in Republican circus. Everybody knows who Tucker Carlson is. Now, many times people have criticized me because I've called Trump the MF word, and I've called him worse than that, and I've called him a sass of shit, and I've gone with it. Rod, who is Vance's spiritual mentor, and Tucker Carlson, who is a person of some substance in the Republican Party, have both called Trump the Antichrist. Well, even I haven't gotten there. So please, all of the people that faint in the street about my name calling, understand this. I have not yet referred to Donald John Trump as the Antichrist, all right? Because I think the Antichrist would be smarter than him. But at any rate, this is what's going on over there. Rodriya, who is a much, much, much, much, much bigger deal than anybody realizes, and Tucker Carlson, who everybody realizes is a big deal, have taken the call in him to Antichrist. So I'm just going to keep calling him a motherfucker and not even worry about it. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[92:02] I'm not a Catholic, but I'm really a You're not anti-Christ.

Speaker 2:
[92:06] You're not anti-Christ.

Speaker 1:
[92:09] Someone for anything other than, you know, and it's not going to happen. Dr. Sue in Cumberland, Rhode Island says, What do you see in the future for JB. Pritzker? I don't live in Illinois, but I like his comment and policy. Dr. Sue, if you would ask me that question six months ago, I would have said, you know, I just, I don't see it. I mean, a whole lot of reasons I don't see it. I've heard him now twice. I've seen him on television a lot, but I heard him at the Hamilton Project last November, and then I heard him at the Gridiron Dinner a few weeks ago. He's impressive. He is impressive. He's very articulate. He's very tough. He makes his case very, I think, very well. And I would put him in that top tier of candidates. I am convinced that the people who are leading the polls, Harris and probably Buttigieg and maybe Newsom, are not likely to be the nominee. A little bit of caveat with Newsom. And I think in that tier of people who could be Pritzker, Moore, Alyssa Slotkin, Andy Beshear, I think I would definitely put Pritzker in that category.

Speaker 2:
[93:20] Well, I got to tell you, I'll take a little pride in this. A couple of months ago, I said, you know I'm watching Pritzker and if I could get him, because I gamble a lot, okay? And I express everything in art. If I could get Pritzker at 12 to 1, I think I'd bet on him. I'd change my mind that maybe if I got him at 10 to 1, I'd bet on it, right? He's shown himself to be, he got a lot of money. And JV. Pritzker knows how to connect with black people. That I know. And that's very important. And you know, he's got real presence about him, but look, I think he's gonna be the nominee. Be safe to say no one is gonna end up being an nominee, but somebody will. But it's safe to say that JV. Pritzker's stock has risen over in the year 2026. And I'll leave it at that, but there's a lot of the high stock people out there.

Speaker 1:
[94:13] Yeah, I agree. By the way, Dr. Sue from Cumberland, Rhode Island adds a footnote. Rhode Islanders destroyed the British ship, the Gatsby, prior to any tea being spilled in the Boston Harbor. So yeah, right on Ocean State. Go Rhode Island.

Speaker 2:
[94:29] I love Rhode Island. I can tell them, I think Judge Caprio just died. Mark Warner is one of my greatest friends ever in politics. And let me tell you what Rhode Island has. Of course, Sheldon Whitehouse, this program is probably the biggest admirers of Senator Sheldon Whitehouse that you could possibly be. Or Senator Jack Reid is another really great guy. It's a great state. I love going there. And man, I love eating in Rhode Island. They got some of the best food, the Italian food there is out of this world. And you go to Narragansett, you go to those places in the summertime, and they're every bit as good as the islands all could have been. You know, Cape Cod or the name, talk anything like that. Man, Rhode Island, I'm a huge, huge Rhode Island guy.

Speaker 1:
[95:23] You know, and Providence is one of the sleeper towns in America. Providence is a really interesting, fun town. Great, great restaurants, nice places to stay. You know, the home of Brown and a couple of universities. Anyway, we're both Rhode Island fans. James, our final question comes from Jim in Durham, North Carolina. My wife tells me the Duke basketball team is rebuilding. If Republicans take a thumping in the midterms, at what point do they consider loyalty to Trump to be a liability?

Speaker 2:
[95:59] Oh, 915 Eastern election night.

Speaker 1:
[96:05] Yeah, I was going to say, I'll take 907, but go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[96:09] Okay, 907. Okay, we'll middle it, and we'll say 912, 911, okay? Let me tell you, the two big races we talked about, these are really big races with real national implications. One are the primaries for the Indiana State Senate, where Trump has endorsed seven challenges of people that would not go along with the redistricting in Indiana. The other one is Tom Massey. If, let's just say, four of the seven win and Massey wins his primary, they're going to start shitting on him before election day, because they're going to say, I'm not saying that Massey is going to win, and I'm not saying that all seven, I don't know, but I advise anybody who has a real interest in national politics to pay deep attention to the Republican State Senate primaries, I think they're on May 7th, but something like that, in the Kentucky, I know it's in May also, primary, Tom Massey's district. It's going to be an interesting deal, very interesting return.

Speaker 1:
[97:19] It is it. It is it. Well, on that point, basically Trump's greatest strength is the fear element. I mean, the word was, gosh, look what happened to Liz Cheney, look what happened to Mark Sanford, you can't stand up against him. Well, if four or five of those state senators in Indiana and Tom Massey, particularly in Kentucky, win after standing up against him, win in Republican primaries, there are going to be a number of other people say, hey, you know what, maybe you can stand up against him because we really don't think he's very good. Hey, thanks for listening to Politics War Room with James Carville and I'm Al Hunt. As always, send your questions for us by email to politicswarroom.gmail.com or tweet them for next week's show at Politicon. Following this episode, we'd appreciate it if you check out the links to our sponsors, Miracle Made, Boxxy, Shopify and DeleteMe in our episode, Show Notes. We really thank you for supporting them because when you do, it helps make this podcast happen. Now, to keep up with us, subscribe to Politics War Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. Check out our Substack at politicswarroom.com. James and I are constantly adding new content, so go take a look. You can also find other shows you might enjoy in the Politicon YouTube channel, or when you search Politicon on your favorite podcast sites. Remember, please rate the show with a five-star review. We'll be back next week with another show as we continue our War Room planning.