transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:00] Parady presents Eyes with Allergy and Sting, Against The Gardener.
Speaker 2:
[00:04] And the winner is Parady Extra Strong.
Speaker 1:
[00:07] To relieve the sting of the eyes by allergy, he acts faster and surpasses Clarity and Flowney by one to 24 hours.
Speaker 2:
[00:13] Parady!
Speaker 1:
[00:14] Adelante! Welcome to The Swiftie and The Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDow, The Swiftie.
Speaker 2:
[00:29] And I am Dr. Jerry Coats, The Scholar.
Speaker 1:
[00:32] How are you doing?
Speaker 2:
[00:33] You know, I've been looking forward to this. Yeah, because we recorded August, Betty and Cardigan in a marathon session.
Speaker 1:
[00:43] Certainly did.
Speaker 2:
[00:44] And...
Speaker 1:
[00:45] And it's been a couple weeks now.
Speaker 2:
[00:47] Yeah, and you had to drive home after that.
Speaker 1:
[00:49] Yeah, that was exa... No, Chase was here.
Speaker 2:
[00:50] Oh, that's right. Chase was here.
Speaker 1:
[00:51] I had to ride home.
Speaker 2:
[00:52] Okay, good.
Speaker 1:
[00:52] Yeah, I just got to sit.
Speaker 2:
[00:53] Because I have to admit to you, I went in there and laid down on the couch and I said, I got to watch something to get my mind off that and I fell right asleep.
Speaker 1:
[01:02] I was also exhausted. Everybody was like, Uncle Jerry seemed hungry because you were like, let's go have dinner, like three times.
Speaker 2:
[01:08] No, it was fun though. It was good.
Speaker 1:
[01:10] It was fun. It was just very fun.
Speaker 2:
[01:11] I liked those three pieces together. I liked that whole idea of, you know, trying to examine the Rashomon effect and I don't know, it's fun, but we have something completely different.
Speaker 1:
[01:20] Totally different. Today, we're going to get with you with it.
Speaker 2:
[01:23] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[01:24] Today, we are doing the prophecy. This is actually the song that our patrons chose.
Speaker 2:
[01:30] Prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[01:31] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[01:32] Okay, good. That's from a movie in case you didn't know.
Speaker 1:
[01:35] I didn't.
Speaker 2:
[01:35] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[01:36] I thought you were just having a moment.
Speaker 2:
[01:37] No, no, it's actually from a movie.
Speaker 1:
[01:40] The prophecy, speaking of movies, always just makes me think of Harry Potter.
Speaker 2:
[01:43] Oh, is that right?
Speaker 1:
[01:44] Because he has the prophecy, like in the ball, you know, that they go and like they have to.
Speaker 2:
[01:48] Right, right. Let's see. Oh, yeah, I have a prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[01:53] Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:
[01:54] Yeah. And all I have to do is like smash it or something and it will speak to me. Except it's like real rock. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:
[02:00] Not easy to smash.
Speaker 2:
[02:01] No, probably not. Okay. The prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[02:05] The prophecy. This is chosen by our patrons. We did like a march. It's going to be a weird one today, I think.
Speaker 2:
[02:13] I'm ready.
Speaker 1:
[02:15] Yeah, just set it there. Perfect. Okay.
Speaker 2:
[02:18] Good.
Speaker 1:
[02:19] Patreon chose this. We did like a march madness tournament of a bunch of songs. I think we had 32 songs. And we went round by round. And the prophecy is what ended up being the one that they want to hear your thoughts on the most.
Speaker 2:
[02:32] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[02:33] Which I'm excited. I love this song. I, probably about a year ago, it like hit for me. Probably around the same time that Peter and the Bolter also hit for me. This is from the second half of the Tortured Poets Department. So that the anthology, the second, the surprise double album that we didn't know was coming.
Speaker 2:
[02:52] I didn't know.
Speaker 1:
[02:55] Actually, it's almost today, today that we're recording this is the two year anniversary of Tortured Poets Department.
Speaker 2:
[03:01] Happy anniversary. I must have gotten sleep. That's the last time we did.
Speaker 1:
[03:08] That's the last time and I have not.
Speaker 2:
[03:11] I think I see the grim.
Speaker 1:
[03:16] Okay, this is, the Prophecy is written by Taylor, written and produced by Taylor and Aaron Dessner. We're losing our Prophecy.
Speaker 2:
[03:24] Yeah, I thought I'd get it out of your way.
Speaker 1:
[03:27] Not in my way. And that's kind of it. This one is very fun and witchy. And I do kind of think that this song is exactly the culmination of all of Taylor's work up until that point.
Speaker 2:
[03:44] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[03:45] It really kind of, I think, rounds it all out and says like, this is what I've been writing about and hoping for my whole life. And why am I not getting it?
Speaker 2:
[03:53] That's what I was going to say. Okay.
Speaker 1:
[03:56] Take it away.
Speaker 2:
[03:57] Well, let's see. First of all, yes, there are tarot cards here. And of course, so why would I know anything at all about tarot cards?
Speaker 1:
[04:09] Because you know something about everything.
Speaker 2:
[04:11] I know everything about something. Okay. So here is the dark secret about my fetish for tarot cards. I do collect them. Yeah. I have more than 60 decks up there on a bookshelf, all stacked up and stuck back. And so, of course, it begs the question.
Speaker 1:
[04:33] Why?
Speaker 2:
[04:34] Why? Yes. Actually, I read the poetry of William Butler Yeats.
Speaker 1:
[04:39] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[04:41] And I love William Butler Yeats as a grad student, and I read a biography of him. It's still back on my shelf. And one of the things that you discover about William Butler Yeats is that he was a matter, master of a Rosicrucian Fellowship. He was interested in the occult. Many of his poems refer to tarot cards. And so I became interested in tarot cards.
Speaker 1:
[05:05] So that's like a you said in grad school.
Speaker 2:
[05:07] Oh, yeah. In grad school. This was a long time ago.
Speaker 1:
[05:10] So like for my whole life.
Speaker 2:
[05:11] Yeah, don't. Thank you. Yes. You weren't quite born yet. Yes. Thank you for reminding everyone that Uncle Jerry is old. Yeah, it was in the 80s.
Speaker 1:
[05:23] I'm from the 80s too.
Speaker 2:
[05:24] Yeah. OK. Thank you, Blondie. So yes, I got interested in tarot cards. I joined the Rosa Christian Fellowship via the mail. It was in California. So I don't know, I became interested in them. And so I started collecting them. I have all kinds of tarot cards and I took down some samples to just show off. Look, I mean, I branched out. I not only collect tarot cards, I collect all, this is the Oracle Belline. Oh yeah. Yeah, she was a prognosticator in the 1960s. So she took an older deck and kind of made a 53 card set of kind of prophecy cards, if you will.
Speaker 1:
[06:08] This looks old.
Speaker 2:
[06:09] Oh yeah, this is, yeah, I'm sorry. This is the, you can see the taped up.
Speaker 1:
[06:15] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[06:16] So I used to do tarot card readings. I used to go to fairs and things like that. And yeah, and I would do tarot card readings.
Speaker 1:
[06:26] These are cool.
Speaker 2:
[06:28] Yeah, this is my favorite deck. So this is the Alastair Crowley Toth deck. So it's got these really, really nice illustrations. Oh, you can actually see that. Yeah. Yeah. It's got really nice illustrations that I love.
Speaker 1:
[06:43] Yeah, those are fancy.
Speaker 2:
[06:44] Yeah, these are really fun. So I used to use this deck. I mean, I literally have had this deck for 40 years. I have a brand new one.
Speaker 1:
[06:53] That's the same?
Speaker 2:
[06:54] Yes, exactly the same. It's never been unwrapped. It's back up there. And so I just keep it in its pristine shape. I have a copy of the oldest tarot cards. So this is the Visconti Svorsa deck. So this Visconti Svorsa were a couple. Yeah, these are cool. This is a reproduction, obviously. The real ones are actually in three different collections around Europe and...
Speaker 1:
[07:27] Like you can go see them or people have them?
Speaker 2:
[07:29] Yeah, they're on display. There is no single copy remaining of these cards because they were handmade and hand painted. So you can, you know, you kind of see they're really, really beautiful.
Speaker 1:
[07:41] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[07:43] And so this is a facsimile reproduction. So this is the size of the original cards. And it was made for these Italian families probably in the mid-1400s.
Speaker 1:
[07:54] Whoa.
Speaker 2:
[07:55] Yeah, kind of fun. And so, oh...
Speaker 1:
[07:59] This is the one I have, but the regular size. The Rider Waite.
Speaker 2:
[08:03] Yeah, this is the Rider Waite.
Speaker 1:
[08:05] Yeah, I have that one, but... And I was like, I need to get those before I leave, and then I forgot, and then I was like, it's going to be fine. Uncle Jerry knows a lot.
Speaker 2:
[08:11] So, I have this little tiny one, and it's a mini deck, so you can carry it with you anywhere you go. So, yeah, this is the Rider Waite.
Speaker 1:
[08:18] They're so cute.
Speaker 2:
[08:19] I know, aren't they? I had to get it. As a matter of fact, I...
Speaker 1:
[08:23] I had to get it.
Speaker 2:
[08:24] I know, this is when you know you're dealing with a collector, because I have one that I actually carry and use, and then I have another one up there, it's unwrapped. It's like keeping your favorite toy in the box. Yeah, and so, yeah, I have a Rider Waite mini. Just in case. Just in case, all unwrapped. But this is the most recent one I bought, I know. Anytime it's got a magnetic closure. So this is actually a Rider Waite, but it's done in this beautiful black and gold foil.
Speaker 1:
[08:56] Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:
[08:58] Can you see that?
Speaker 1:
[08:59] Yeah, you can see how shiny they are.
Speaker 2:
[09:00] Yeah, you can see how, so this is the obverse side, and then these are the cards themselves.
Speaker 1:
[09:06] So cool. People are going to be so impressed that you have all these things. It's another thing.
Speaker 2:
[09:10] It's another thing. I know it really is. I mean, it's kind of crazy. I got way into it, and mostly through poetry. I mean, it was Yeats' poetry that made me think, okay, so how and why are these important to Yeats? What do they mean? So I started studying. I got the Pictorial Guide to the Poet, to the Tarot. This is by AE. Waite. So AE. Waite was the Rider Waite deck, right? So AE. Waite was a British occultist, and it's also someone who Yeats studied and met. So yeah, so that's the Waite. I mean, this is the Joseph Campbell book on tarot. Yeah, I know I've got lots of these.
Speaker 1:
[09:57] Wait, does that say, sorry, I've never looked at this section of your bookshelf here. Does that say A to Z horoscope maker?
Speaker 2:
[10:06] Maker and delineator. Yeah, yeah. I can talk about that. So this is the Kabbalah, and this is a book about the Kabbalah. And one of the layouts you use when you do tarot card layouts is the Kabbalistic Tree of Life layout. So I usually use the Tree of Life, or I use the Kelty Cross, which is a really nice card layout. And I can also do the four card daily. So if you want your daily, run after this.
Speaker 1:
[10:35] Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2:
[10:36] Yeah, after and not during it.
Speaker 1:
[10:38] I just got into tarot and astrology in the pandemic. Cause there was nothing else. I mean, I was like kind of into it before, but then I like bought a bunch of books and started like...
Speaker 2:
[10:48] I did not know that.
Speaker 1:
[10:49] Trying to study stuff.
Speaker 2:
[10:51] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[10:51] Okay, so this is a fun story. You were there for a second for this story, but you left, now I'm wishing you kind of would have stayed. At my bachelorette party slash wedding shower was hosted by your daughter, and I wanted to do a Taylor Swift theme, but I also wanted to make it kind of witchy and tarot-y, and so I did what was... The theme was the auras tour. Instead of the eras tour. And so everything was Taylor themed, but then we had an aura photographer and a tarot card reader. And so we all got readings, we all got our aura photographed, and then everything else was Taylor-themed. There were Taylor decorations, there were Taylor puns for all the food.
Speaker 2:
[11:32] Wow, okay.
Speaker 1:
[11:33] It was very fun. That's all on my Instagram, my personal account. There's a couple of reels about it and a story highlight that y'all can go look at.
Speaker 2:
[11:41] Have you ever had your aura charged or massaged?
Speaker 1:
[11:43] No.
Speaker 2:
[11:45] Okay, well, I have.
Speaker 1:
[11:47] Where?
Speaker 2:
[11:49] Well, actually, I was going up to Denton when I was learning tarot back in the 80s. I was doing it mostly by my own reading and by taking the correspondence course through the California Rosicristians. I thought, I'd really like to check this to see how authentic it is. I couldn't call William Butler Yeats because he was dead, and I couldn't summon him. So I happened to be at an occult bookstore in Dallas when I was buying another tarot card deck, and there was an advertisement for a witch who gave lessons in Denton. I made an appointment with her and went up and took some lessons from her. She was very good. She was very patient with me because she knew that although I don't subscribe to what they purport to be able to do, nevertheless, I wanted to know how they work so that I could understand the literature better. She was very nice. On my second lesson, she asked if it was okay to bring a friend in. She was an aura master, and I said, that's great. She brought a friend, and she gave aura charging. She essentially stands over you and rolls her hands around, never touches you, but massages and charges your aura.
Speaker 1:
[13:10] What did you feel different after that?
Speaker 2:
[13:11] Yeah, I said I couldn't tell if it was better either or before or after. And as I recall, she didn't like the humor.
Speaker 1:
[13:22] I would assume not. No. Well, that's fascinating.
Speaker 2:
[13:26] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[13:28] This is all fascinating.
Speaker 2:
[13:29] Do you think? Yes. Yeah. Are you guys really going to find this interesting?
Speaker 1:
[13:33] Yes, they will.
Speaker 2:
[13:34] Okay. It's in The Prophecy, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1:
[13:36] Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:
[13:39] Shall we talk about the poem?
Speaker 1:
[13:40] Yeah, one more story. Okay. I just went on a trip with my friends to Asheville, and we are all friends because of Taylor. Like, online friends is a long story. But when we get together, we like to do PowerPoint parties. As you know, I love to make a PowerPoint.
Speaker 2:
[13:59] That's what helped me.
Speaker 1:
[14:01] And we decided this time to do your perfect Taylor album. And the only role was 15 songs. And it could be whatever you want it to be. So it could be like a sonically cohesive. It could tell an album. It could tell a story. It could be your favorite songs that you just think all go together, like anything. And I actually did two because I did one and then I was like, well, I have another idea. And mine was, my second one was the album was called Invisible String, which is another Taylor song. And The Prophecy was the first song on that Perfect album. And I did it all about all of her. It was all the songs that where she talks about like fate and stars and astrology and, you know, the universe, like being in charge of our our fate and stuff. And so that was like my second perfect Taylor album.
Speaker 2:
[14:55] That's fun. So you guys did like PowerPoints to prove your point. And who won?
Speaker 1:
[15:01] There was no winner. Oh, we were all the winners.
Speaker 2:
[15:03] Oh, OK.
Speaker 1:
[15:08] So yeah, that was just like this. This is kind of coming at a perfect time that Patreon wanted to do this one because it's all fresh in my head from making PowerPoint.
Speaker 2:
[15:17] I mean, I have to admit, I was kind of excited for this because I I mean, I like tarot cards. And when I saw it in her work, I thought, oh, that's pretty funny. Yeah. And I hadn't really I hadn't thought about tarot and literature for a little while.
Speaker 1:
[15:31] Yeah, it really took you back.
Speaker 2:
[15:32] Yeah, it really did. It took me back. I was really interested. Yeah, I will. I'll tell you one more story. And that is, I when I when I got this book, I want that book so bad.
Speaker 1:
[15:42] I'm going to buy that.
Speaker 2:
[15:43] Yeah. The Horoscope by by Llewellyn George. And it tells you it tells you how to create a natal horoscope. And yeah. And and what what it all means. And and so I studied and studied and it took me months to learn how to do it. And by the time I thought that I was really getting proficient, someone made a computer program where you can just put in your date of birth and location and it pops out the whole natal chart. And I was pretty upset. I mean, I learned a lot by learning how to do it.
Speaker 1:
[16:23] Yeah, that's I think that's probably a crucial step, right? Because I haven't learned how to do that. I just go to those online things and say, make me a chart.
Speaker 2:
[16:30] There you go. You know, Chaucer actually wrote a, he wrote a book. It's not a, it's not a big book. He wrote a short work, I guess I should say, called A Treatise on the Astrolabe, you know, and he sent it to a son and he asked his son to translate it back to him. And so it's kind of fun.
Speaker 1:
[16:49] To see if he was understanding.
Speaker 2:
[16:52] Yeah, and proficient in languages and understood how to use an Astrolabe. So if you've ever seen the movie The Name Of The Rose, he's the Sean Connery character has one. He has an Astrolabe that when one of the monks comes to his room, he quickly covers up because they were methods of divination, which was kind of against the law. Or it was seen to be handling your own future when you should be relying on God. So, right, which is why these tarot cards got a bad name, I think. You know, that I mean, some people believe they're they're like anti-Christian, well, you know. Yeah, they feel very, yeah, but but it's not. It's most of the imagery is religious imagery.
Speaker 1:
[17:38] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[17:39] Right. And a great deal of it is, in fact, Christian imagery and some of it's not, some of it belongs to other religious traditions. But it is, it is a religious imagery, which you know, in itself was interesting to me because, you know, my dissertation in history is on history of religion. So kind of fun.
Speaker 1:
[18:00] Kind of ties it all together.
Speaker 2:
[18:01] Right. It does. Yeah. But yeah, I was really disappointed when I learned how to do the horoscope and all of a sudden there's a computer program that just pops it out.
Speaker 1:
[18:12] Cheaters.
Speaker 2:
[18:12] I know, cheaters. The Prophecy. Right. The Prophecy. So obviously I read the title and it's something prophetic. And I did wonder what we might see in the way of divination. And I wasn't disappointed.
Speaker 1:
[18:30] Yeah, it's all there.
Speaker 2:
[18:31] It's there. Although with the first line, I didn't think it was going to go that direction. You know, it starts off hand on the throttle. And I thought, okay, so what kind of hand on the throttle? You know, usually they talk about a foot to the, a pedal to the metal, right? Or your foot's on that throttle. But and I thought, well, a train has a throttle that you have to hold by hand. It has what's called a dead man switch where you have to keep a lever pulled down and you have to hold it. So if you ever let go of it, the train will immediately power down.
Speaker 1:
[19:09] Oh, OK. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:
[19:10] Right. The same thing's true of steamboats. They also have a throttle. So I was kind of kind of interested and I wonder what she's envisioning for what she's on. But hand on the throttle had an antique sound to it. OK. Yeah. So I was kind of anticipating perhaps an antique story. And then it also puts her in the driver's seat, right? If she's in the throttle, so she's she's in charge. She's in charge. She's always surging forward. And then I started thinking about the word throttle. I mean, I wondered, did she choose it because it has an antique sound? Is it because it shows her in the driver's seat? And then I thought about to throttle someone means to choke them. So I wondered, wait a minute, is this one of her? I'd like to choke the guy and stories. Yeah, because to throttle someone is to put your hands about them and to choke them.
Speaker 1:
[20:10] Oh, and then, yeah, the next two lines, because it's like, well, that's over.
Speaker 2:
[20:15] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[20:15] Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:
[20:17] Yes, it's like the next line comes up, and it's, thought I had caught lightning in a bottle. Okay, that's an idiom, to catch a sudden dramatic success. And here's lightning again. We've seen that in her other songs. I sound so knowledgeable about Taylor Swift, now that I have 35 songs. That's what, is that like 15% of her total output? Maybe, yeah. Well, but she's thought she had caught, but no, it's gone again. And it is a general reference pronoun. Okay, there is no noun and a sedent. And so I think that she does this purposefully. She understands a bit of grammar.
Speaker 1:
[21:03] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[21:04] So I think that she wants us as the reader or as a song listener, but certainly for me as a reader. I still haven't heard the song. I am really curious.
Speaker 1:
[21:12] I love this one.
Speaker 2:
[21:13] Okay. I really am interested. I want to know if it has a spooky sound or if it's a little angry or just what. Yeah. She wants, she wants me as the reader to ask, well, what is it?
Speaker 1:
[21:26] What's gone again?
Speaker 2:
[21:27] Right. What's gone again? And since it's again, I think it's probably a relationship, another lost relationship. So yeah, I'm putting the three lines together and I'm thinking, oh, I wonder if she intentionally has ambiguity. Take your first drink of the day. I wonder if she hasn't, you know, that is one of her poetic techniques is intentional ambiguity. I'm wondering if she's being ambiguous with the word throttle.
Speaker 1:
[21:55] Interesting.
Speaker 2:
[21:56] Yeah. To surge forward or to choke somebody.
Speaker 1:
[22:00] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[22:00] Right. And I think she might mean both in this context.
Speaker 1:
[22:03] Interesting. Never considered it.
Speaker 2:
[22:05] Yeah. That's fun. I like it. I mean, I like what she does with ambiguity because she's very purposeful with it. So it's gone again. And I'm thinking, oh darn, is this going to be another one of those, I'm so sad I lost my love poems, but it's not. It's better than that. And it was written. Okay. It sounds very biblical. Both Jesus and Paul in the New Testament say it is written. And then they quote some passage or other. Right.
Speaker 1:
[22:36] This is just how things are going to be.
Speaker 2:
[22:38] Right. Yeah. And I also thought of the expression written in the stars, which is also sort of Shakespearean. There's a form of it in one of his plays. So written in the stars could be prophetic, right? And so now I'm thinking, oh, yeah, it's prophecy, it's fate. And so I'm thinking, oh, this is getting interesting. So it's it's illusion, right? It's kind of a reference to biblical literature, but also maybe prophetic literature. It was written. OK, so what's written? I got cursed like Eve got bitten. Or was it punishment? So I love the allusion, both an allusion and a simile, right? So I'm like Eve, and it's a reference to Eve from the Old Testament. She got bitten by a snake. And was that punishment? I don't know. By the way, there is a whole theological discussion about that. You know, a fourth century writer. Sorry, it's it's time for your Bible lesson, kids.
Speaker 1:
[23:49] Wait, hold on.
Speaker 2:
[23:50] It's time for your Bible lesson, kids. And can you tell what just changed?
Speaker 1:
[23:54] Yeah, find what changed behind us.
Speaker 2:
[23:57] It's like one of those old magazine things where you find the difference. Find the difference between this goose and that goose. She's the goose. So, no.
Speaker 1:
[24:07] You're the silly goose.
Speaker 2:
[24:10] OK, so so there's a fourth century writer, Augustine of Hippo or Augustine of Hippo. And he writes that, you know, that this is original sin. Well, the phrase original sin never appears in the Bible. This is his theological idea. But it has seized hold of the way most people interpret the Bible, that Adam and Eve's fall is somehow an original sin. There's a lot of other literature, a lot of theologians also say, a lot of Jewish theologians as well. An 11th century theologian says that he thinks it's, in fact, intentional that God wants us out of the Garden of Eden because he wants us to have free will.
Speaker 1:
[24:51] OK.
Speaker 2:
[24:51] So, you know, she doesn't eat. She eats of the prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, she has no knowledge of good and evil. So how does she know what's good and what's bad?
Speaker 1:
[25:02] And how does she know she's doing right? If you don't know.
Speaker 2:
[25:06] God said it was wrong, but the snake said it was OK. Who are you going to believe? God put the snake in the garden. All of this is problematic. Yeah, I mean, it is. So it is that there are a number of theological questions. So I like the fact that Taylor Swift says, I got cursed like Eve got bitten or was it punishment? So was it a gift to go out and seek your free will? Or was it punishment that you get ejected from a so-called perfect relationship? I don't know, you know, she's got to discover that.
Speaker 1:
[25:42] That's interesting.
Speaker 2:
[25:43] Right. So yeah, I mean, I like the allusion to Eve because I think she's doing something fairly complicated with it.
Speaker 1:
[25:50] Yeah, it seems like it.
Speaker 2:
[25:51] Right. So I mean, the question about Eve is, is she ejected from the garden as a matter of punishment? So she has to endure pain in childbirth and eventual death. Or is this a kind of gift of free will where humanity gets to discover our own needs, wants, desires? You know, and all of that is the question she's asking of the prophet. You know, who can tell me this prophecy? You know, am I being punished because I keep losing relationships? Or is this because there's a better relationship out there and I'm supposed to seek it as a matter of my free will?
Speaker 1:
[26:30] Well, I get goosebumps.
Speaker 2:
[26:32] Yeah, I mean, I don't know. So I liked it and maybe I'm making too much of the whole Eve illusion, but...
Speaker 1:
[26:39] No, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:
[26:40] Yeah, but I liked it. I thought that that was really fun. So she says pad around when I get home. You know, her word choice, her diction is really fun. So you got to stop and say pad, walking quietly. And you think of the pads of your feet, the soles of your feet. So, you know, is she walking without shoes on? Is she barefooted? Is she pacing? It feels like there's a sense of comfort and at-homeness with the word pad. Pad around when I get home.
Speaker 1:
[27:15] Interesting.
Speaker 2:
[27:15] Yeah. I guess a lesser woman would have lost hope. A greater woman wouldn't beg. But I looked to the sky and said, we gotta stop. Yes. So the lesser woman lost hope, the greater woman wouldn't beg, are both idiomatic, right? They're idioms. It's also a technique called antithesis. So you've got these antithetical rhetoric. So lesser versus greater, lost hope versus begging. It's also juxtaposition or foil writing.
Speaker 1:
[27:53] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[27:54] You've got two different women and you're supposed to reflect back and forth on them. And they're in a binary opposition. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[28:04] I always. So this little segment right here, like pat around when I get home, I've never thought of it as like home is like kind of a comfort. Like that's your home. You know, like that's where you feel the most yourself maybe. But I always just picture her like she's just at home, like pacing around and then saying a lesser woman would have lost hope and a greater woman wouldn't beg. That always to me is like she's talking about herself as she's just like a normal girl, like in the middle, a normal woman in the middle. Like she's just an average woman.
Speaker 2:
[28:37] Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[28:38] Which like she's obviously not, but at the same time she's just a human woman.
Speaker 2:
[28:43] You know, when you're at home and you got your shoes off. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 1:
[28:47] You're just a girl.
Speaker 2:
[28:48] Right. Yeah, you know, there's a great saying by Robert Heinlein. He wrote in one of his novels, he's a science fiction writer. He said, everyone looks equally stupid on a commode.
Speaker 1:
[29:05] So that's very true, though. It's just like we're all just human.
Speaker 2:
[29:09] When you're at home and you got your when you got your socks off and your feet up, or you're just messing around the house, you're just walking back and forth, asking yourself what is going on? When is this going to happen? Yeah, you're just being very human.
Speaker 1:
[29:21] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[29:22] Okay. So you go back up to Eve. And I think that ties up with Eve, because like I said, the question about Eve is, is she being punished and ejected? And does she have to submit to pain and death? Or is this a kind of gift? I mean, I can't put it into humanity to be free, to be given that choice in life.
Speaker 1:
[29:48] Yeah, to go live your life how you choose to live your life.
Speaker 2:
[29:51] Right. And so a lesser woman would look on that as having lost hope. Oh no, I'm going to live in pain and die, you know. But a greater woman wouldn't beg for it back. I don't want back in the Garden of Eden. I mean, I'll say it again. I don't, and own it. I don't want back in the Garden of Eden. I want to be free to make my own choices so that at the end of life, if there is a summation that we can sum that up and say, well, he was either a jerk and talked about people in commodes, or he was, he was not a bad guy, you know?
Speaker 1:
[30:29] Right.
Speaker 2:
[30:30] Yeah. I mean, he tried to do right by his family and by people at work and by friends and yeah. I mean, so I'm not going to beg to be back in the Garden of Eden. I'm going to be okay.
Speaker 1:
[30:41] Interesting.
Speaker 2:
[30:42] Yeah. I like that, that antithetical rhetoric that's going on here, both with Eve and with the lesser and greater woman.
Speaker 1:
[30:51] Okay. I have to, this is just occurring to me now that Cassandra is the song after this on the album. So it was the prophecy and then Cassandra.
Speaker 2:
[31:00] Oh, who is prophetic. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[31:02] So that's fun. But also in Cassandra, she's also talking about, like, you know, patching up the, she's at home and she's patching up the cracks on the walls. And I've never connected that like where both of these are her like at home.
Speaker 2:
[31:15] Oh, that's great.
Speaker 1:
[31:15] Like at home in a, in a, in a bad moment.
Speaker 2:
[31:18] Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the deal is you take your, your good moments, your bad moments home with you every night. Yeah. Yeah. You just do. Then you kick your shoes off and you pat around and, and you try to assess, you know, where, where is this all going?
Speaker 1:
[31:33] Right. Exactly.
Speaker 2:
[31:34] Or sometimes you look up and you say, please. I mean, my, the first time I read this, I have to admit I laughed out loud when I hit the word please.
Speaker 1:
[31:46] I know it's so fun, but I looked to the sky and said, I'm a greater woman in bed, but I looked to the sky and said.
Speaker 2:
[31:50] Yeah. And I'm anxious to hear the song, you know, again, for those of you who are first time listeners and still with us.
Speaker 1:
[31:58] After the Kamoan talk.
Speaker 2:
[32:00] I have not, I've never heard these songs. So, you know, not having heard the song before, I'm interested to know how much of a pause there is between I looked to the sky and said, you know, is she talking to God, talking to the stars, talking to the prophetic, you know, beings and elements. Yeah. And the only thing she says is please. A single plaintive word. I've been on my knees. Okay, so we have to talk poetry just a little bit.
Speaker 1:
[32:32] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[32:32] So, you know, she really does have nice rhyme going. If you go back up to the first verse, throttle and bottle, written and bitten. You know, she doesn't do it in every line, but she does it often enough that she's sort of playing with rhyme. There's no consistent rhythmic pattern. But most of the lines are at least six syllables, and then you get to the single line in the chorus, please.
Speaker 1:
[33:00] It really kind of makes it like stand out.
Speaker 2:
[33:02] It's emphatic, yeah. Yeah. And that's something that all good poets do is when they do alter the rhythmic pattern, they alter it in a way that is trying to get a message to the reader.
Speaker 1:
[33:13] Right.
Speaker 2:
[33:13] And the message is she really needs help, right? Please. I've been on my knees. Okay. This could be ambiguous.
Speaker 1:
[33:26] Okay. Wait, let me try to get there. Okay. So I'm always thinking I've been on my knees because I'm begging.
Speaker 2:
[33:33] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[33:34] But also, I've been on my knees. Oh, like you're down on the ground.
Speaker 2:
[33:41] Like you're down and out. Yes, like you've been knocked to your knees.
Speaker 1:
[33:45] Okay. Okay.
Speaker 2:
[33:46] You know, I get knocked down.
Speaker 1:
[33:47] And I get up again.
Speaker 2:
[33:48] But I get up again.
Speaker 1:
[33:50] You're never gonna keep me down.
Speaker 2:
[33:53] Chubba Wamba or whatever that's called. Chumbawumba. Chumbawumba. Tub thumping. I don't know.
Speaker 1:
[34:00] What a classic, though.
Speaker 2:
[34:01] It is greatness. I bought that whole album.
Speaker 1:
[34:04] Remember when you guys had to do that?
Speaker 2:
[34:07] Yeah, I did. I bought the whole CD for that one song.
Speaker 1:
[34:10] And it's like, oh, I just wanted that one, really.
Speaker 2:
[34:13] Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I thought it was there's a level of ambiguity going on here. I've been on my knees. She's on her knees praying. She's on her knees because she's been knocked down by life. You know, she's on her knees because she's like down and out. So, yeah, I liked the expression.
Speaker 1:
[34:33] That's fine.
Speaker 2:
[34:34] So she she uses it both figuratively and literally.
Speaker 1:
[34:37] OK. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[34:38] So literally, she's on her knees praying. But figuratively, her she's been emotionally knocked down. Yeah. So she wants she says, change the prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[34:52] Do it. Just just change it.
Speaker 2:
[34:54] And of course, that begs the question, is this possible? Do you know? I don't know. If it's a prophecy, it just is written. It is written. Yeah. She says that up in a previous line, but we don't want that to be true. But she doesn't want it. No. She says, don't want money. Of course, I am going to have to pause and say people with money. They can very easily say, I never wanted money while they're counting. Right. But nevertheless, I understand she would be willing to give up her wealth.
Speaker 1:
[35:35] Yeah. I'll give it up for.
Speaker 2:
[35:37] For just someone who wants my company. When I saw wants my company, but wait, does she own the record company? She is the record company. Does the word company, is it ambiguous?
Speaker 1:
[35:50] Oh, gosh. I'm going to go, I'm going to choose no for the sake of my brain on this one.
Speaker 2:
[35:57] You know, it didn't work for me. I don't think that she wants someone to buy her record catalog over again. Yeah. I think that she means literally her companionship.
Speaker 1:
[36:06] Somebody that wants to hang out.
Speaker 2:
[36:08] Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[36:09] Which she's been writing about forever. There's a song on Red called Stay, Stay, Stay, and she's like, and it's about, it's like not about a relationship. It's about like an imagined relationship where she's like, this is what I want. And she says, I was thinking it might be nice. I can't think of how it exactly goes, but she says to hang out for the rest of our lives basically. You know, we're just going to hang out. And then also this, this section, which I know we haven't done this and we need to, but Elizabeth Taylor, she says in that song, which we know is the first song that she wrote for the Life of a Showgirl, Elizabeth Taylor was the first one that was written. So this was like very early on in the, her relationship with Travis when that song was written. It's the only one that has a little bit of like anxiety about like, will this work out? And she says, I would trade the Cartier for someone to trust. But then she follows it with just kidding. Because like, actually, yeah, I can have it all and I do want to have it all, you know, but like, if I needed to, like, maybe I would give it all up, you know?
Speaker 2:
[37:24] Right. Yeah, I guess. Would she?
Speaker 1:
[37:27] Yeah, I mean, who knows?
Speaker 2:
[37:29] Yeah. What if what if she just gave half of it? Let's say, let's say a billion. Yeah, but I don't want to make fun of of her for having money. You know, I understand the the emotional anxiety that she's dealing with here in the song. So, yeah, in the text of the poem, I'm willing to be a forgiving reader and say, she just wants someone to be with. And she says, let it once be me. And of course, let it be is a Beatle song. I think there is a song. I didn't look it up. Let it once be. But I have to look that up and see. And, you know, who do I have to speak? You know, now, it should be with whom do I have to speak. But you realize the use of the word whom has almost entirely fallen out of the English language, especially in American, in standard edge, in American English. We're supposed to use whom. But when we speak, almost no one says, rarely. Right. So who do I have to speak to? About if they can redo the prophecy. She wants a re-take.
Speaker 1:
[38:39] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[38:40] Yeah. Let's go back. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[38:41] And she's like, who's in charge here? Who do I have to speak to? Is it God? Is it these planets? Is it the fates? Is it the stars?
Speaker 2:
[38:49] Something, someone has got to be able to fix this. Yeah. Yeah. Then she turns to tarot cards. I don't know if this, you know, when I first read cards on the table immediately, obviously it's a cliche, a famous cliche, an idiom that says, let's open up, let's be transparent, right?
Speaker 1:
[39:10] Yeah, my cards are on the table.
Speaker 2:
[39:11] Right, my cards are on the table, here's what I've got, what have you got. But I do have to say, since the title of the work was Prophecy, even on my first reading, what popped into my head, what tarot cards.
Speaker 1:
[39:23] That was for me too, it instantly, I was like, oh, she's, because she talks about cards a lot, like playing cards. And I feel like that was a lot of people's first reaction, but, and maybe it is ambiguous in that line, but I feel like she's specifically just talking about tarot cards.
Speaker 2:
[39:40] Right, I do too.
Speaker 1:
[39:42] And a read, a tarot card reading.
Speaker 2:
[39:44] Yeah, I probably should have prepared this. Have you seen The Fool?
Speaker 1:
[39:50] Not in that deck though.
Speaker 2:
[39:52] But if you look at The Fool, you know, she says after the cards on the table, mine play out like fools in a fable. So here's The Fool, or you could probably find a nice picture of The Fool. The Fool.
Speaker 1:
[40:05] Yeah, you can see that well.
Speaker 2:
[40:07] Okay. So, yeah, The Fool is, he has the sun over his shoulder. He looks like he's doing pretty well. A rose in his hand, a stave with a satchel, or sometimes it's a gourd, a double-represented gourd. In this particular one, it's a satchel. And he's walking straight off a cliff, looking straight up at the sky. And his dog is kind of leaping. And the question is, is the dog jumping off the cliff too, or is the dog-
Speaker 1:
[40:41] Trying to get him to stop.
Speaker 2:
[40:42] Trying to get him to stop, yeah. And it's usually interpreted as the dog is trying to get him to stop. There is a Hebrew idiom from non-canonical Hebrew literature that says a fool walks with his dog behind him, right? The idea is that, you know, the dog, if you're in an ancient society or if you're a shepherd, you know, the dog should be going out in front of you so it can see if there are any dangerous animals or any enemies or there's a cliff or something like that. But this guy walks with the dog behind him because, well, guess what? He's a fool. And she says the fool's in a fable, and that made me wonder what fable is she talking about? You know, she's not just talking about the card, but is she talking about, I wrote down Gimple the Fool, which is an Isaac Bashevis Singer short story about a character who's kind of a fool. His wife cheats on him, poor guy. And so there are a number of fools in Chaucer and The Miller's Tale, the poor old Miller is pretty foolish. So there are a number of fools in different fables. None of them ever come to any good. Being the fool has your wife cheat on you, has your daughter become a cheat, have you losing all your money, losing all your livestock, all the stories of fools always play out poorly for the fool. And she says, mine plays out like fools in a fable. So we should probably stop and admire the use of alliteration.
Speaker 1:
[42:26] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[42:28] Right, the F's in fools and fable. You know, a lesser writer would have said fools in a story.
Speaker 1:
[42:35] Right.
Speaker 2:
[42:36] Right.
Speaker 1:
[42:37] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[42:37] Oh, it was sinking in, sinking in, oh, slow is the quicksand, poison blood from the wound of the prick-tanned. You know, usually I don't like two-word rhymes, but quicksand and prick-tanned.
Speaker 1:
[42:52] Yeah, it's kind of fun.
Speaker 2:
[42:53] It's kind of fun. I like that. Yeah. So I do have to say I like this whole passage because you've got the quicksand, which is a metaphor, right? For life is sucking her under to her death. It's, you know, loneliness, she's sinking, the gradual process of realization that none of this is working out, that the stars and cards are aligned against me.
Speaker 1:
[43:23] That's fun, like sinking in on the line above is she's saying, like, I'm understanding that I'm always gonna be the fool. But then when you put it with the line underneath it, so it was sinking in, and then she's like, I'm sinking in quicksand.
Speaker 2:
[43:36] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[43:37] And also fun that slow is the quicksand.
Speaker 2:
[43:40] So the use of sinking is not only idiomatic, but it's also ambiguous.
Speaker 1:
[43:45] Yeah, take a drink.
Speaker 2:
[43:49] Because sinking, she has a sinking feeling, so emotionally sinking, but also literally sinking in the sand. So, yeah. And then you've got Poison Blood from the Wound of the Pricked Hand, obviously a Sleeping Beauty reference.
Speaker 1:
[44:05] She's bringing in your fairy tales.
Speaker 2:
[44:07] She is. This is, I looked it up just so those of you who have your morphology of the fairy tale handy.
Speaker 1:
[44:13] Okay, yes.
Speaker 2:
[44:15] Yeah, this is number 410 on the Arne Thompson scale.
Speaker 1:
[44:20] Okay, so I remember us talking about that.
Speaker 2:
[44:23] Yeah, Stith Thompson, Arne and Thompson are the two that create this whole list of different fairy tales and they catalog them. So this is number 410. There are a number of stories where the young girl, usually prepubescent girl, is told by way of a prophecy, hence the use here, that she's going to be pricked. And in some of them, she's going to get a piece of flax stuck in her finger or under her fingernail. So, flax is actually, would be something that a common person would make. You know, flax is a stalky plant. So you take the flax and you cut the stalks and then you lay it in a river, or you soak them and you take them out and you crack it. And the hard shell comes off. You have all these nice pieces of stringy flax and then you can weave it together.
Speaker 1:
[45:23] Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2:
[45:24] That's cool. And, but it has these little slivers in that process. And so if you can get them stuck in your hand, it's really painful. Or it's a spinning wheel, you know, in the classic Disney story, it's a spinning wheel.
Speaker 1:
[45:41] And that prophecy for Sleeping Beauty is that she has to, she goes to sleep.
Speaker 2:
[45:51] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[45:52] And the only thing that can wake her up is true love.
Speaker 2:
[45:55] Yeah. So you have the evil witch, the evil prophetess who says that she's going to get pricked and she'll die. And then you have the good fairies who say, well, we can't do away with the whole prophecy, but we can change it slightly. Right? And the change is she'll only go to sleep until she is awakened when true love's first kiss.
Speaker 1:
[46:15] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[46:15] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[46:16] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[46:16] Right. So in that case, the prophecy does change, which is I wondered why, if she's using it here, because Cinderella in the Disney sense is a story of a changed prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[46:31] Okay. So is that like a tiny bit of hope in there that maybe it can change?
Speaker 2:
[46:37] Little bit of hope. Yes. So she's going to pull that sliver out and she's going to awaken and to her true love.
Speaker 1:
[46:42] Interesting.
Speaker 2:
[46:43] Yes. The last line of the verse. Oh, still I dream of him, the prince who will come and awaken her.
Speaker 1:
[46:52] Yeah, because she's a sleeping beauty. So she's dreaming.
Speaker 2:
[46:55] Okay. Um, interestingly enough, in the Arne Thompson, number 410 index, where they mentioned both the Flax stories and the Needle stories. Put the kids to bed now. The, um, when the prince comes, he pulls the Flax out from underneath her fingernail or he awakens her with a kiss only after he has sex with her. And so she is impregnated while she's asleep. That feels like rape to me.
Speaker 1:
[47:26] It's not great.
Speaker 2:
[47:27] No, no. Uh, but you understand that these stories come out of other cultures where, um, yeah, the masculine hegemony is pretty firmly established. So again, as a feminist reader, um, I read that part of it and go, ah, someone needs to be prosecuted right now. I mean, she's asleep and you have sex with her.
Speaker 1:
[47:51] Straight to jail.
Speaker 2:
[47:52] Yes. So, but, um, yeah, she's looking for that man who will be her response to Sleeping Beauty. Maybe not necessarily the whole thing.
Speaker 1:
[48:05] The Disney version.
Speaker 2:
[48:07] She wants the Disney version, I think, is pretty clear. Yes, yeah. Then we go to the chorus and she's back on her knees. Please, she plaintively cries. I've been on my knees. I've been down here, right? She's been, so again, we had the ambiguity of meaning. She's been knocked down time and again. She's prayed time and again. So, I think that both are in charge. Change the prophecy. Don't want money. Just someone who wants my company. Let it once be me. I like the infusion of the word once. I didn't mention before, just one time.
Speaker 1:
[48:44] That's all I'm asking for.
Speaker 2:
[48:45] And I want the one time guy. You know, I don't want the guy for six months or six years. I want the one time guy. So love the word once. It has a multitude of meanings. I didn't use the word ambiguity. Who do I have to speak to about if they can redo the prophecy? And that, by the way, is enjambment. Who do I speak to about if they can redo the prophecy? Okay. Then we have the bridge.
Speaker 1:
[49:14] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[49:15] And I love this. I do too. Her bridges are usually the poetic gems in the middle of the song.
Speaker 1:
[49:25] Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
[49:26] And I have said before that there are times when I think I could do without the final chorus, or the outro. Yeah. And I think that some of you who listen, your ears hurt when I say that because you love the songs and you need the whole song. When I say that, I mean as a poem. As a poem, I'm not sure you need the redundancy, the repetition. I think it must work in a song, but in a poem I might edit it.
Speaker 1:
[49:55] Yeah, just on the page, it's like we're just repeating this. But in a song, you can sing it differently. You can take it to a different key, maybe.
Speaker 2:
[50:04] Change a key.
Speaker 1:
[50:05] The sounds can be different behind it, so it's like a different thing than a poem.
Speaker 2:
[50:10] I think I like her. Her bridges tend to be so strong that they almost feel like a final moment of the poem.
Speaker 1:
[50:17] So then why are we going back? Because that was a great final word.
Speaker 2:
[50:21] Yes, well, because the song. Yeah. I treat it like a poem. She says, I sound like an infant. Okay, so it's a simile. So how does an infant sound? Someone who whines and cries?
Speaker 1:
[50:34] Yeah, I'm just like having a meltdown.
Speaker 2:
[50:36] Well, and illegibly, right? Because an infant is mewling and puking. I'm quoting Shakespeare now.
Speaker 1:
[50:45] I was like, oh no.
Speaker 2:
[50:46] Oh yeah, a line from Shakespeare people. Look it up, mewling and puking like an infant, feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen. Okay, so she's got the whole pen thing. Is this a, I wrote a little question mark. Is this a quill pen?
Speaker 1:
[51:03] Yeah, I mean this does feel very quill pen. But that just, to me, that line is I've got no more words to write down. I've written all the songs. I've been through all of these feelings before and I have nothing left to say except for change the prophecy.
Speaker 2:
[51:24] Where is he or it? Yeah, I think I agree with you completely. That she's just, it's like I'm tired of writing about this. I would like to write a different song or write a different poem. Yeah, I've had the very last drops. And I also thought of last drops of blood, because she is literally, I think she feels like she's bleeding out her life. Both of these are similes, like an infant, like the last drops. The last drops of an ink pen, by the way, also very old-fashioned, very antique feeling. And I think that it goes with the sort of antique ambiance of the poem.
Speaker 1:
[52:06] Yeah, agreed, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[52:07] So we're dealing with prophecies and old fairy tales and tarot cards, and so I like it that she uses this antique simile.
Speaker 1:
[52:16] Okay, you just saying that it sounded like blood to you, like she's bleeding out on the page. In For Tortured Poets, for a lot of her albums, she has actual poems that she puts inside the, you know, in the vinyl covers and stuff. And TTPD Tortured Poets had two, one by Stevie Nicks and then one by her that is like the summation of what the story of this album, and which people really want you to dissect that one, they want us to like cover that like it's a song and have you look at the poetry. But at the end of that, the very last line of that poem in Tortured Poets says, My veins of pitch black ink.
Speaker 2:
[53:01] Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 1:
[53:02] So you literally just called that.
Speaker 2:
[53:05] Hey buddy.
Speaker 1:
[53:06] You're not a fool in a fable.
Speaker 2:
[53:09] I'm not the fool, although I have occasionally drawn the card. The next line, a greater woman stays cool. So we're back to the greater lesser woman thing. The greater woman stays cool, but I howl like a wolf at the moon. So like a wolf at the moon is a simile howling wolves. We got werewolves. I still see no vampires.
Speaker 1:
[53:37] No, no, just witches this time.
Speaker 2:
[53:39] Just witches.
Speaker 1:
[53:39] That feels so witchy to me, like that.
Speaker 2:
[53:42] Well, so there's a tarot card, the moon.
Speaker 1:
[53:45] The moon, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[53:46] Yeah, and now I need to go back through and find it. There's the moon.
Speaker 1:
[53:51] Love it.
Speaker 2:
[53:51] Yep, we can see it. Yeah. By the way, you may notice in the moon we have a wolf howling at the moon. Ah, so she says, I howl like a wolf at the moon. The moon can be a symbol of error or danger, but also the image of the moon, the goddess of the moon looking down between the two towers, has a very placid expression. There's a lobster, a clawed creature coming up at us out of the water, almost unseen in the card of the moon.
Speaker 1:
[54:32] Like there's some danger lurking.
Speaker 2:
[54:34] Yeah, it can be an ominous card. So she says, I howl like a wolf at the moon. That's also very rhythmical, I howl like a wolf at the moon. So we have dactyls, the dactylic meter.
Speaker 1:
[54:48] Maybe that's why I like, that's one of my favorite lines to sing.
Speaker 2:
[54:52] Oh really?
Speaker 1:
[54:52] And maybe that's why, because it's like the kind of the only one that like has that rhythm.
Speaker 2:
[54:57] Yeah, it's dactylic, so you have two unstressed syllables and one stressed syllables, but I howl like a wolf at the moon. Ba ba ba, ba ba ba, ba ba ba.
Speaker 1:
[55:06] That's actually how she sings it.
Speaker 2:
[55:08] Oh is it?
Speaker 1:
[55:08] Like it's got that rhythm in the song, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[55:11] Yeah, Alfred Lord Tennyson when he writes The Charge Of The Light Brigade uses that same rhythmic pattern.
Speaker 1:
[55:17] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[55:18] Because it's horses running.
Speaker 1:
[55:19] Okay, so they're just galloping.
Speaker 2:
[55:20] Half a league, half a league, half a league onward, all in the valley of death rode the 600, so they're charging forward with their horses.
Speaker 1:
[55:27] Makes sense.
Speaker 2:
[55:28] So she seems to be running headlong into her disastrous life.
Speaker 1:
[55:32] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[55:33] Yeah. And, and I look unstable. I wonder why, because she is staring, howling like a wolf at the moon, which can be a portent of some kind of error or coming danger.
Speaker 1:
[55:47] And she's screaming like an infant.
Speaker 2:
[55:48] She's screaming like an infant. You have babbling. So she's gathered with a coven round a sorceress's table. And again, we had this really wonderful rhythmic power gathered with a coven round a sorceress's table. So you have these alternating trochies and dactyls that are really fun. And you have the witchiness of the coven and the sorceress. By the way, how many witches in a coven?
Speaker 1:
[56:20] Is this a joke or a real question? I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[56:23] Usually 13.
Speaker 1:
[56:25] Really?
Speaker 2:
[56:26] I wouldn't lie about that.
Speaker 1:
[56:27] That's Taylor's number.
Speaker 2:
[56:29] Oh, what? Is that her number, really?
Speaker 1:
[56:31] She loves 13.
Speaker 2:
[56:32] Oh, that's right. You've told me. This isn't the 13th song, is it?
Speaker 1:
[56:37] I don't think so.
Speaker 2:
[56:38] Okay, good. That would be too freaky.
Speaker 1:
[56:41] I do have to tell a story that came out after we got this album.
Speaker 2:
[56:45] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[56:46] Because I was always picturing that. There's a bunch of women with tarot cards, and we're all trying to figure out where we're going next. And then we learned a story. Do you know who the model Gigi Hadid is?
Speaker 2:
[56:59] You know, I have actually heard the name, but I don't know the face.
Speaker 1:
[57:03] There's no reason that you should, but her and Taylor are really good friends, and they have been for a long time. She has a sister. She has two sisters. I don't know how many sisters she has. One of them is also famous, and this other lady is.
Speaker 2:
[57:14] Is her name FF?
Speaker 1:
[57:15] No.
Speaker 2:
[57:15] Okay. I just thought it was Gigi.
Speaker 1:
[57:19] I actually don't remember what her name is, but Taylor invited them to one of the shows on the Eris Tour, and they rode with her on her plane, and this woman, Gigi Hadid's sister, I should look up what her name is, so I don't just keep calling her that.
Speaker 2:
[57:37] Gigi Hadid's sister.
Speaker 1:
[57:38] Mariel is her name.
Speaker 2:
[57:40] Mariel.
Speaker 1:
[57:42] Mariel did a tarot card reading for Taylor, and this was, I think, when she had just started talking to Travis, and she did a tarot card reading and was basically like, this says you should go for it with this guy. And so then Taylor gave it a shot and went for it, and so I'm wondering if this whole song is, was inspired by like that moment of a tarot card reading from this woman who just was like, hey, go for it, and then she wrote this, like, beautiful.
Speaker 2:
[58:17] You know you're engaging in biographical criticism.
Speaker 1:
[58:20] I know, but I just had to pull it in this time.
Speaker 2:
[58:23] It's okay, I'm the one who's supposed to try to, because I am happily and vacuously unaware of that.
Speaker 1:
[58:31] I just think that's so fun, like, to, because we got the song first, and that's what I was picturing in my head. Like, she wrote that perfectly, and then we, a couple months later, got that story. She, this, Mariel, went on a podcast and, like, told that story. And I assume with Taylor's blessing, because I think that's how everything works with Taylor, is that, like, she's like, sure, go for it, or don't you ever, you know? But yeah, I just think that's so fun that there could have been, like, an actual moment that inspired this whole song that was based around the tarot card reading.
Speaker 2:
[59:03] So she got the, like, the ten of heart, the ten of cups and not the ten of spades.
Speaker 1:
[59:08] Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[59:09] I don't know if she ever went in that. Ten of cups would be fulfillment in a romantic relationship. Ten of spades would be death. So.
Speaker 1:
[59:16] So, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[59:16] Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a fun story, though. Yeah. It does give the reason to the, you know, to the song.
Speaker 1:
[59:25] Yeah, like just the inspiration behind it, like how she came up with the theme.
Speaker 2:
[59:28] And you realize Mariel is little Mary. And when she's talking about Eve, the antithesis of Eve is Mary.
Speaker 1:
[59:35] Oh, goodness. Oh, dear. Oh, gosh.
Speaker 2:
[59:39] For those who haven't noticed a nice statue of the Virgin Mary lately, the Virgin Mary is usually depicted standing on a snake. So she is crushing the head of the snake that threw Eve out of the garden. So Eve, Eve is the reason why we have free will, but Mary is the reason why we have Christ, the Redeemer.
Speaker 1:
[60:01] Salvation.
Speaker 2:
[60:02] Right. Yeah. So there you go.
Speaker 1:
[60:04] That's interesting.
Speaker 2:
[60:05] Aren't you glad I'm here? Yes. That probably has nothing to do with the song. So they're around the sorceress' table. Yes. And a greater woman has faith, as opposed to the lesser woman who has no hope. By the way, I guess just because I live that way, I thought of, and I marked it up in the very first reference, I thought of Shakespeare's Macbeth, Lesser Than Macbeth and Greater.
Speaker 1:
[60:34] Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:
[60:36] I know. But probably not for the song, but it just kept creeping into my head when she kept doing the greater and lesser woman. I love the next line, but even statues crumble if they're made to wait. And I mean, it's a metaphor. It's a truism, you know, metaphorically, she's the statue or any of our hopes are statues. You know, what's a statue made out of? Stone, marble, something or perhaps even metal. But, and you think of them as being permanent, but they're not. Even statues crumble if they're made to wait. You know, Percy Shelley, middle name Bish. Percy Shelley wrote that.
Speaker 1:
[61:22] Because he's the son of a Bish.
Speaker 2:
[61:24] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[61:24] Thank you. I remember.
Speaker 2:
[61:27] Percy Shelley wrote a poem, Ozymandias.
Speaker 1:
[61:30] And that's the title of a Breaking Bad episode.
Speaker 2:
[61:33] Huh? Is it really?
Speaker 1:
[61:36] Yeah, I always remember that word. And I knew it came from something literature, but I didn't know what.
Speaker 2:
[61:42] Yeah, it's a poem about a great Eastern king who has a huge city built in his name and has this giant statue erected. And on the pedestal of statue, it says, Look on these works, ye mighty and despair. And nothing remains except for the fallen head of the statue and the pedestal. Right? So that the inscription is ironic. Look on these works, ye mighty and despair is ironic because there's nothing left.
Speaker 1:
[62:15] There's no works.
Speaker 2:
[62:16] Right. There are no works. The works of humanity will ultimately dissipate to nothing. It will just go to sand. And so I love her use of this. I wonder if she's thinking of Ozymandias when she says even statues crumble if they are made to wait. Yeah. You know, for me, I really think this was my favorite line. But even statues crumble if they're made to wait. I like it because it's rhythmical, because it's metaphorical, because it reminds me of Ozymandias, which is probably Shelley's most famous poem, Ode To the West Wind and Ozymandias, probably is two most famous. I just liked it a lot. I always, you know, there are so many of these songs, poems where I find a line. I think that's just a gem. You know, that's a gem. I'm so afraid I sealed my fate. No sign of soulmates. I like the word sign because people are always looking, you know, covens or prognosticators with tarot cards are always looking for a sign, a portent, an augur, you know, something to show me the way. And she says, there's no sign, there's no augury, there's no portent of a soulmate. I'm just a paperweight in shadows of grayish. So gray and beige, gray, grayish is that was my second favorite line.
Speaker 1:
[63:50] Yeah, I do love this too. Like because grayish became a thing. I want to say like probably about 10 years ago, I think like your daughter's house might be painted in grayish. Yes, like it was like a popular house color at that time, like a wall color, you know, ours is kind of like that and we want to repaint. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[64:11] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[64:11] So it's just, I don't know. That's just kind of, you know, she has these like quill pen songs where she's talking about, you know, all of these super old references and then she pulls in grayish. It's always just kind of fun. Like, cause that's, that's very of now, you know.
Speaker 2:
[64:25] Okay, so we're closing in, we're closing off the, the, the bridge, spending my last coin so someone will tell me it'll be okay, oh, oh, oh, oh. She's looking for a prophecy that's positive, right? And, and begging the question, who is she seeking? Who's she looking for? Is she looking for a prophet, a priestess, a witch? Is she talking to therapists? You know, a friend?
Speaker 1:
[64:53] Or all of it, all of those, because she's gonna spend all of her money, or just anyone to tell her.
Speaker 2:
[64:58] Yeah, that's, I mean, it was funny, because I started thinking, gosh, I wonder if she is treading beyond, if she's padding beyond just the idea of a witch and a tarot card. You know, is she talking about her friends really? You know, I need help with you giving me advice and holding me up, keeping my statue from deteriorating. Or is she talking with a therapist or with a psychic or, you know, just to? Yeah. And then, like, you got to go back through the bridge and look at the rhyming unity. You've got unstable, table, faith, waite, fate, soulmates, grays, okay.
Speaker 1:
[65:45] It's pretty nice.
Speaker 2:
[65:46] It is nice, yeah. You hear the rhyming power of the A that runs through every one of those. You know, not always in the same way and not always with the same consonant. So sometimes they feel like less like true rhyme and more like assonance. But that A always runs through all those last lines. And, you know, you combine that with some of the lines that are incredibly rhythmical, that I howl like a wolf at the moon, or gathered with a coven round a sorceress' table, or but even statues crumble if they're made to wait. You know, I just love The Bridge. To me, this could almost be a standalone poem.
Speaker 1:
[66:28] Agreed. Yeah, it tells the whole story right there.
Speaker 2:
[66:31] Yeah. Yeah. Then we go to the chorus. The chorus is again this plaintiff crying to heaven, the stars. Please, I've been on my knees. Change the prophecy. Don't want money. Just someone who wants my company. Let it once be me. Who do I have to speak to about? And now she completes the line about if they can redo the prophecy, who do I have to speak to to change the prophecy? I don't want to redo. I want another direction.
Speaker 1:
[67:01] Completely change it.
Speaker 2:
[67:02] That's right. Yeah, and then we have the outro as we're rolling out. We go back to the original Hand on the Throttle. Thought I caught lightning in a bottle. Oh, but it's gone again. Pat around when I get home. I guess a lesser woman would have lost hope. A greater woman wouldn't beg, but I looked to the sky and said, please, so she tacks, please, back up on.
Speaker 1:
[67:31] Yeah, I love the way this ends. The way it sounds when she's ending it is very fun.
Speaker 2:
[67:37] So I do kind of like, again, if I was editing, I think I would edit down the chorus a little bit and keep the outro just as is, because I like tacking the word please on the end.
Speaker 1:
[67:47] Yeah, me too, yeah. And I like, this is a very Taylor thing to do. I don't know if we've seen it a ton yet. I think we've seen it a couple times where she, the outro matches verse one, like how the song started, she brings it kind of back and down.
Speaker 2:
[68:01] Yeah, I keep saying outro. It's outro?
Speaker 1:
[68:03] I mean, I think it's whatever you want to say.
Speaker 2:
[68:05] I think you must be right.
Speaker 1:
[68:08] I thought we were all just having fun with the outro.
Speaker 2:
[68:10] Outro. All right.
Speaker 1:
[68:15] You want to hear it or you want to talk themes?
Speaker 2:
[68:18] Let's hear it and then I'll talk themes.
Speaker 1:
[68:19] If you are on Patreon, go listen to the song with us. And if not, we will be right back.
Speaker 2:
[68:31] That was fun. The song is good.
Speaker 1:
[68:33] Yeah, I just love that one. I don't know, the sounds, there's just like a lot happening in the background.
Speaker 2:
[68:38] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[68:38] There's strings in there, I think, and it's just fun.
Speaker 2:
[68:41] You know, I like the, I mentioned the consistent rhyme, or accidents, if you will, of table, faith, waite, fate, soulmates, grays, okay. She does the same thing with knees, prophecy, money, company, me, prophecy, prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[68:57] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[69:00] You know, but as she stresses it, because she says, prophecy, e.
Speaker 1:
[69:04] Yeah, plea, e's.
Speaker 2:
[69:05] Plea, e's. Knee, e's. Yeah. You know, and I like several of the things that we talked about during the song, like the howling wolf howl, yeah. I like the way she said, how do I, who do I have to speak to? She says it in a slightly different tone. It's like she's standing at a complaint window in a department store.
Speaker 1:
[69:29] That's what I was just thinking, like she's like being a Karen a little bit, like who do I need to speak to?
Speaker 2:
[69:33] I know it's like, to make this right. Do I have to talk with the manager?
Speaker 1:
[69:37] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[69:39] Yeah, I liked it, I mean, yeah, it's like she's, I don't know, she's at Dillard's or she's, she's in the department store is saying, what, I got this, I got this dysfunctional love life.
Speaker 1:
[69:50] Yeah, fix it.
Speaker 2:
[69:52] Yeah, I want a new one and it's got to be right.
Speaker 1:
[69:55] Yeah, I had the same thought just now listening. Also, the, we didn't talk really about Paper Waite.
Speaker 2:
[70:01] Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:
[70:01] But I do kind of feel like Paper Waite maybe goes with the, what we were talking about, but feeling like the very last drops of an ink pen, like talking about like, I don't, I can't write anymore, like these are all of my stories. You're like, I have all of these stories here and I'm just here holding them down, like these are the things that I've written about wanting this and all I am is like sitting on these without anybody here with me.
Speaker 2:
[70:26] Right, I'm just sitting on them, just, I'm just here. Well, and I think it also matches with one of the previous lines when she talks about sinking, right? Oh, I was sinking, sinking in, slow in the quicksand, right? So paper waite would be wading down, sinking. Yeah, I've got all this crap and I'm sitting on it and where is my love life? Yeah, where is that success that I really want? Yeah. Themes?
Speaker 1:
[70:55] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[70:56] Fate versus agency, right? You know, so how much, how much does the greater woman take charge of her own life and get out there one more time, once more, once more? She uses that, you know, and hoping for the one last time, the one.
Speaker 1:
[71:12] Yeah, just once.
Speaker 2:
[71:13] Yeah, just once. The cost of success, because she does refer to her, her money, her company, you know, she does talk about how she has success in just every other realm of her life, except this one, and that's the one that matters.
Speaker 1:
[71:31] Yeah, I think that's a, I think that's the theme that hits the hardest for me, is where she's like, I have all of these things, I have this career, I've made it to the top of my game.
Speaker 2:
[71:43] The preordination of destiny in romantic loss and love. Yeah, I mean, you know, so do you just feel like it's just been ordained somewhere, that you're gonna have this crappy relationship and that crappy one and that crappy one, and you're gonna see the perfect person walk right by and by, you know.
Speaker 1:
[72:06] Which it does feel like that. It feels like meeting the person that you're supposed to be with feels like that should be impossible, you know?
Speaker 2:
[72:13] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[72:13] And so it does feel like it's all, it is written. You know, it feels like this is how it's supposed to be. And maybe we didn't write a person for you, you know? We didn't write that person.
Speaker 2:
[72:26] Yeah, there's not one in the cards for you. There's just not, yeah. The pen ran out of ink before we got his name down.
Speaker 1:
[72:31] Yeah, so sorry.
Speaker 2:
[72:34] And one more, one more theme that I think is more implied, but I think that this is an intentionally personal one for her. So maybe I am engaging in biographical criticism. Fear of being left behind. You know, I think that it's, it's 2024 and she's writing the Tortured Poets Society. It's not the Happy Poets Running Through Daffodils Society.
Speaker 1:
[73:01] Yeah, and I mean, that's kind of that, that let it once be me feels like that because it's like, I've seen my friends meet these people. I've seen my family meet these people and they've gone on to have these happy, successful marriages and relationships and whatever it is that they have. But just this one time, I need that to be me instead.
Speaker 2:
[73:23] I'd like it to be me. Right. Yeah, I do think that there is a sense of fear or fate of being left behind, just losing out.
Speaker 1:
[73:33] What was the theme you said about fame, the price of fame?
Speaker 2:
[73:38] Yeah, what's the price, the cost of success?
Speaker 1:
[73:40] Cost of success, yeah. She has several songs that kind of tie that into this one. She has a song called Peace, where it's basically like, if you're in a relationship with me, am I enough to combat the unpeaceful nature of what our life is going to be? You can't go out with me and not be hounded. It's not a normal life. And an anti-hero, when she's talking about being a monster on the hill, like, I just don't have a normal life. I'm not a normal human. So can somebody, because of my fame, so is somebody going to step into that with me?
Speaker 2:
[74:18] So, lastly, well, okay, almost lastly. Lastly, in terms of thematic material, I really wondered, and I don't want to talk about her necessarily, but I want to talk about her work.
Speaker 1:
[74:32] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[74:34] I wondered in the poems when I began to reassess them as you just did, right? When I began going back through Antihero or that kind of thing, I began to wonder if the poem demonstrates a fear or a concern or maybe even a dark conviction that success in one area may somehow mean lack of success in another.
Speaker 1:
[75:02] Well, yeah, because we're kind of taught that, you know, women can't have it all.
Speaker 2:
[75:06] Right. Well, there's an expression, you can't have it all. Right.
Speaker 1:
[75:10] You're not allowed to be the world's biggest pop star and have a great romantic life.
Speaker 2:
[75:16] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't choose one or the other. Yeah. You've got to make sacrifices, you know. And I, you know, I dislike the inevitability of it, but I think that that's what the work kind of demonstrates is I it's asking that question. I wonder if success in this area means that the payment is, you know, that Eve's payment. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[75:40] The punishment.
Speaker 2:
[75:41] The punishment is that I won't have success in this other area.
Speaker 1:
[75:45] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[75:46] And she's beginning to weigh, maybe the poet's voice is beginning to weigh, you know, which one was more important after all? You know, was it the notoriety and the money and the company and the, you know, and the songs or and the artistic gratification?
Speaker 1:
[76:03] Right.
Speaker 2:
[76:03] Right. Or was it just somebody to pad around with? Yeah. Yeah. I said I had one more.
Speaker 1:
[76:11] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[76:12] Your literary device for the day.
Speaker 1:
[76:14] Okay. Yes.
Speaker 2:
[76:15] I have not mentioned this before, but since I did say that I liked the outro here and I liked the inclusion of the word please, I guess I should mention inclusio.
Speaker 1:
[76:33] Okay. That sounds like a Harry Potter style.
Speaker 2:
[76:37] Inclusio. Yes. Taylor, you must include. When you have the same line or image or idea at the beginning of work and at the end of the work, it's called an inclusio.
Speaker 1:
[76:53] Oh, right.
Speaker 2:
[76:55] So hand on the throttle. Thought I'd caught lightning in a bottle. Hand on the throttle. Thought I'd caught lightning in the bottle from verse one to the outro. Yeah, it's an inclusio.
Speaker 1:
[77:06] Who knew that was a term for that?
Speaker 2:
[77:07] There you go. Inclusio. So she does, she likes to do it in her other works as well. We've talked about that before, but I thought that I'd mention it here, especially because the inclusio is the same, except she does change it with the word please. Yeah, so it's kind of fun.
Speaker 1:
[77:25] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[77:26] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[77:27] You ready to grade?
Speaker 2:
[77:29] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[77:29] Okay. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[77:31] 99.
Speaker 1:
[77:32] Uh-oh. Okay, lyrical strength. Are we giving that a 99?
Speaker 2:
[77:36] Yeah, lyrical strength. So I really liked the rhythmical elements, and I loved the way she uses rhyme and assonance together at the ends of lines. I like the way she sings it. I'd like to hear her read it as well. Yeah, I liked the way she used prophecy-e, plea-es. It makes you listen.
Speaker 1:
[78:01] And it's like she's really begging. Right.
Speaker 2:
[78:04] Yeah. So, 99. I really, really liked that.
Speaker 1:
[78:08] Awesome. Okay, narrative and structure.
Speaker 2:
[78:12] Yeah, I thought that it was really good. I liked the little pop-up tarot cards. I liked finally getting right down in the weeds and saying, I'm going to a coven. You know, I'm not even going to leave you guessing as to whether I'm referring to tarot cards. Yes, I'm talking to the witches.
Speaker 1:
[78:32] The witches are here. We're doing this together.
Speaker 2:
[78:34] Right. So, 97. I think that was strong.
Speaker 1:
[78:37] Okay. Production and atmosphere.
Speaker 2:
[78:41] Oh, you know, the song was good. I liked the little pensive at the beginning. That was good. So, 96.
Speaker 1:
[78:51] Okay. Lore and literary references.
Speaker 2:
[78:54] Oh, so I liked the…
Speaker 1:
[78:55] There's a lot of this.
Speaker 2:
[78:56] There's a lot of that going on. Yeah. I think that she's clearly… it was written. She's referring to the Bible, especially to the New Testament, you know, where they refer to the Old Testament. So, and I especially like it that it was written is frequently used by Jesus and Paul, and they're always referring to the Old Testament, which is where we find the story of Eve, which is the next line. Right, so she's not just throwing this crap out there. She's literally coordinating it rhythmically, you know, and she gets to Eve and asks about punishment, and then she goes to the lesser and greater woman. How do I respond to that? If I were Eve, if I were blighted with this, or is it a blight, or how does it work? Yeah, so I'm doing a lot of talking here.
Speaker 1:
[79:41] You're allowed.
Speaker 2:
[79:42] Yeah, you're thinking I'm gonna give this like a hundred.
Speaker 1:
[79:44] I just don't know. I'm just ready to see where you're gonna go. Yeah, I'm on my tippy toes.
Speaker 2:
[79:49] I really am leaning towards a hundred. This is really, I like it.
Speaker 1:
[79:56] Oh my goodness. And emotional impact. Have you ever felt like the prophecy needed to be changed?
Speaker 2:
[80:06] Yeah, occasionally. Yeah, I didn't know whom I should turn to. But yes, I have. So, but I'm going to say a 94. I didn't weep about it. I'm okay.
Speaker 1:
[80:24] That's a 97.
Speaker 2:
[80:25] Yeah, this is a good song. I say that I feel like every week, but I especially liked this one because you have elements in it that I'm familiar with in poetry. So I like the use of references to the Bible. I like the references to the Tarot cards and mixing up methods of prognostication.
Speaker 1:
[80:46] Fun. All right. Thank you patrons for picking this one.
Speaker 2:
[80:50] Yes, that was fun.
Speaker 1:
[80:52] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[80:52] Oh, that's right. Thank you patrons.
Speaker 1:
[80:54] Yeah, they knew you were going to like it.
Speaker 2:
[80:55] Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:
[80:56] I really did. Okay. Is that all? Anything else?
Speaker 2:
[81:00] I think, I think that's all.
Speaker 1:
[81:02] Okay. Make sure you're following us everywhere. Subscribed on all of the things wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow us on social to make sure you know what's coming next. At Swiftie and Scholar Pod, you can find Uncle Jerry, Dr. Uncle Jerry or Drunkle Jerry. And you can find me at Angela Wyatt McDow on Instagram.
Speaker 2:
[81:25] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[81:26] Okay. We will see you next week.
Speaker 2:
[81:28] Bye.
Speaker 1:
[81:28] Bye.