transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
[01:24] I'm thrilled to have Andrew Yang back on the show. He is the author of the new, I think it's about, it's definitely a bestseller. Hey Yang, where's my thousand bucks? He's also the founder and CEO of Noble Mobile. We got a lot to talk about. Welcome to the show, sir.

Speaker 5:
[01:37] Thanks for having me, Donny. It's great to be back.

Speaker 4:
[01:38] So I guess the inspiration for the title of the book is basically people stop you on the street and literally asking that question.

Speaker 5:
[01:46] Yes, the alternate title was, hey, am I racist or are you Andrew Yang? Which I've also gotten. If I were to do the most common thing I get asked, it's do I know you?

Speaker 4:
[01:58] You talk about in the book that you have the kind of celebrity that a band that had their biggest hit five years ago, and it's like, I know you, but what's going on here?

Speaker 5:
[02:07] Yeah. Certainly, I get a lot of stares in public, and then people try to figure out how they know me. And so, they'll say, do our kids go to school together? Did we go to school together? And then I just cut them off at some point. I'm like, I'm on TV sometimes. And then if it goes to the step but beyond that, then it's I ran for president. And they'll be like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[02:32] You were the guy that came up with all those really fresh ideas on TV. You were the guy that during the debate said you were going to give $10,000 to 10 families. That kind of then it kind of kicks in.

Speaker 5:
[02:41] Yeah, that's right. I'm the magical Asian man from the future who wants to give everyone money.

Speaker 4:
[02:48] The book is, I guess, part political commentary, part memoir, part humorous, humor essayist. It's a lot of things. And what I loved is the people that you got to kind of quote to kind of endorse the book, Mark Cuban, Dave Chappelle. Your Dave Chappelle relationship is an interesting one.

Speaker 5:
[03:07] Yeah. Dave and I have become friends over the last number of years. He endorsed my 2020 run. So we did videos where he's like, I'm Chris Tucker. And I said, I'm Jackie Chan. It's rush hour in America again. The path to freedom. And we've been friends ever since. Our wives are friends too. They both grew up in Queens and they're both Asian. So I, you know, like I think I grew up in Queens.

Speaker 4:
[03:32] Where did your wife grow up?

Speaker 5:
[03:33] She grew up in Bayside. She worked at Bayside Bagels.

Speaker 4:
[03:37] I grew up in Bayside too.

Speaker 5:
[03:39] So she might have served you a bagel, man.

Speaker 4:
[03:42] 212th Street and 85th Avenue. It's really kind of Hollis Hills, but it's, I call it Bayside because people don't even know what Hollis Hills is.

Speaker 5:
[03:47] No, that was it. Yeah. No, that's where my wife grew up.

Speaker 4:
[03:50] That's amazing. So the other interesting character in the book that you talk about is Shane Gillis. You also have an interest relation with him and it kind of started on a little bit of a rough patch.

Speaker 5:
[04:00] Well, rough patch for him. So, he got fired from SNL just as he was announced to be joining and he was fired because he called me a Jew chink on a podcast that nobody heard, among some other things. But that was, you know, it was essentially that and some other Asian epithets. And so at that time, I didn't know who Shane was and Shane was not famous then. He's a lot more famous today.

Speaker 4:
[04:27] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[04:28] And then I watched some of his clips and was like, this guy is not a malignant racist. He's just a comic. And so then I put out a message saying, look, didn't love the joke, but he shouldn't lose his job over this. And then he and I connected actually at that time and then reconnected several times since. So I'm really glad that Shane essentially became a bigger success out there in the world than if he'd been an SNL cast member.

Speaker 4:
[04:59] Yeah, that's very, very true. How do you feel about cancel culture? I mean, right now, there's so many things on any given day that are out there, and people have to be held accountable, yet obviously, there's tremendous severe overreactions in so many instances.

Speaker 5:
[05:14] I am against cancel culture in most situations and circumstances. I think most of the time, people are being judged by some misstatement or their worst moment, and then they're having life-changing professional consequences in some instances. It doesn't seem proportionate or judicious or correct, or human or empathetic or any of those things. That said, it's a weird time. By the way, Donny, I actually credit cancel culture with a backlash, and Trump's rise in part, where if they hadn't gone so overboard on cancel culture, because then it just became mud that was being flung at everyone. And then if you say, hey, this guy has problems or is corrupt, they're like, yeah, you say that about everyone. And then at some point, people can't separate one from the other.

Speaker 4:
[06:12] Speaking of Trump, you talk about in the book, you call him kind of like a three-headed monster. I thought that was interesting and I thought your analysis bringing in UFC and WWE was very interesting.

Speaker 5:
[06:23] Yeah, so there's politics and then there's pro-wrestling and then there's comedy in terms of communication. And Donald Trump can toggle among all three. And the Democrats are stuck with number one, and then they wonder why it's not working. Meanwhile, if you look at the numbers, pro-wrestling is among the most popular programming anywhere, and comedy podcasts are, I think, the most popular. No offense to us, Donny.

Speaker 4:
[06:48] To us serious guys, right.

Speaker 5:
[06:51] So, you know, two-thirds of America is not college grads. Comedy probably works better with them. It's one reason why I wanted to write a book that was broader and lighter. My wife's favorite book, by the way, of the ones I've written, is my fourth book. And this is the only one I think she read, cover to cover. So, you know, so Donald Trump has touched on something very, very powerful and Democrats still have not figured it out.

Speaker 4:
[07:22] Yeah, I like to say the Democrats don't have a testosterone in them. They don't understand fight. They don't understand that strength, it perceives strength, even though a lot of what Donald Trump portrays as strength is actually weakness. But that strength and that kind of the you obviously by bringing in fighting or understanding that that's missing, they're missing teeth.

Speaker 5:
[07:43] I literally said to a senior Democrat who asked me, how do we understand how to campaign or talk to men or defeat Trump? I said, just watch UFC and WWE programming for three months. Just watch every program.

Speaker 4:
[07:57] Learn about bragging and things like that.

Speaker 5:
[07:59] And then they just looked at me like I had spouted a second head and just thought what I was saying was patently ridiculous. I was like, no, I'm serious. Watch the programming. By the way, was I a wrestling fan growing up? Yes. Do I watch MMA bouts? Yes. This isn't some weird anthropological expedition for me.

Speaker 4:
[08:28] Speaking of sports, what I learned in the book is that you're a frustrated hoops guy. Me too.

Speaker 5:
[08:33] Yeah. Frustrated hoops guy.

Speaker 4:
[08:34] I'm a short, medium-sized Jewish guy. You're a medium-sized Asian guy. Not a lot of guy. Well, you had Lynn. You also talk about Lynn Sandling and how that broke your heart. But that's interesting.

Speaker 5:
[08:44] Well, hey, man, I feel like it's the heyday for Jewish hoopers. That's right.

Speaker 4:
[08:49] The guy from Portland.

Speaker 5:
[08:50] An all-star. Yeah. And then in Brooklyn, you got Danny Wolfe.

Speaker 4:
[08:54] Who's playing well. He's playing well.

Speaker 5:
[08:56] He's showing promise.

Speaker 4:
[08:58] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[08:58] So, you know, it's like, it's like Jewish linsanity.

Speaker 4:
[09:04] So in the book, if one, if one was going to take something away from the book, it would be that you're definitely, not definitely running, but that one would think very strongly that you're going to run in 2028 again.

Speaker 5:
[09:16] Well, I certainly say I've got much more left in me in the book, which while I was writing, it was fun because it's true. And I'm asked to run every day. I ran in 2020 on this crazy idea that AI was going to come and take away the jobs, which I dare say.

Speaker 4:
[09:35] Yeah, I read your recent piece. It's pretty sobering. We'll talk about that.

Speaker 5:
[09:39] No, no, it's tough, man. I was on CNBC this morning talking about AI and jobs.

Speaker 4:
[09:43] You basically think in the next few years, 20 to 50% of white collar jobs are going to be gone. That's pretty staggering. And you're not alone in that either, by the way.

Speaker 5:
[09:52] No, no, I think it's going to be 20 to 50% of the headcount in S&P 500 companies, which are obviously predominantly white collar. And among small businesses, what I say, Donny, is that the easiest people to fire are those you didn't hire. So what's happening is a lot of small businesses who might have needed to onboard three, four or five people are hiring zero or one. And so you've got a lot of college kids who will be back home with their parents wondering where the jobs went.

Speaker 4:
[10:22] You also say that basically anybody, I think about because when I used to run my agency, and we had about a thousand people, you said that anybody who's basically in front of a computer processing information so that they can give it to somebody else, those jobs are gone. And common sense tells you that's absolutely true.

Speaker 5:
[10:38] Yeah, there are two and a half million Americans who still pick up a phone and do customer service for a living. And that's going to get automated away. There are millions of people in the bowels of these big companies, including orgs like the agency used to run or an insurance company or, you know, a bank where those jobs are going to go away. What happens often is that these companies adopt very, very big administrative systems and software programs. And maybe they buy a new company and then that new company has its own internal system and then you need to have a bunch of people around who know how that system works. A lot of this AI is going to get rid of a lot of this stuff because you can write new software in a week or two. And so the 100 people whose jobs literally relied upon the fact that you couldn't get rid of this system or that system are going to disappear.

Speaker 4:
[11:37] Let's go back to 28. So where are you? Where's your head right now on that?

Speaker 5:
[11:42] Now, I'm trying to figure out what my biggest and highest contribution can be, Donny. And one of the reasons I ran in 2020 was that I felt tons of conviction that win or lose, the campaign was going to do good and achieve something I was going to be proud of.

Speaker 4:
[12:01] Which it did, which it really did. It really did, really did. You should be proud of it.

Speaker 5:
[12:05] Oh, thank you, Donny. And so I'm trying to figure out whether I feel the same way about 2028 that win or lose, we would do a ton of good. And if I do feel that way, then I'd almost certainly run.

Speaker 4:
[12:20] Do you have, is there anything that's kind of churning inside you now, an issue-oriented thing that was some kind of some reason that would give you this reason to run? Is there any area that you're exploring internally right now?

Speaker 5:
[12:33] You know, there's the official answer, and then there's the internal answer. So the official answer is, I'm trying to figure out whether we can share the gains from AI quickly and broadly and whether a campaign could help. I mean, right now you have trillion dollar companies. We're certainly going to have our first trillionaire coming up pretty soon. His name is probably going to be Elon. You know, you have different firms that are shooting to the moon with fewer and fewer workers and more and more Americans are going to be on the outside of this. Same time, GDP today is up to 84,000 ahead, and AI is going to push that over 100,000. So the irony here, Donny, is that for the first time in American history, you might have abundance and plenty to go around at the same time that 80% of Americans are looking up wondering what the heck happened to their job, their kids' job, their path to the future. So the big question is, can we spread the gains much more powerfully and directly and broadly, and can I speed that up? On a personal level, it's largely about my wife, my kids. My kids are older now than they were when I ran last time. Before, they had no clue what daddy was doing. Daddy would just disappear and reappear. But now, they kind of get it. I have obligations as a CEO of a company as well. I'm the head of Noble Mobile, which I'm very proud of and is growing every day. So there are different things to weigh, but I'm definitely looking at it.

Speaker 6:
[14:14] So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere?

Speaker 7:
[14:19] Anywhere.

Speaker 6:
[14:20] What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris?

Speaker 7:
[14:23] Yeah, Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 6:
[14:24] Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad and Tulum?

Speaker 7:
[14:28] Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 6:
[14:30] What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties?

Speaker 8:
[14:36] When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. Book your spring break now.

Speaker 7:
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Speaker 9:
[15:13] K-pop demon hunters, Saja Boys' breakfast meal and Huntrix meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?

Speaker 3:
[15:22] It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

Speaker 8:
[15:27] It is an honor to share.

Speaker 3:
[15:29] No, it's our honor.

Speaker 8:
[15:31] It is our larger honor.

Speaker 5:
[15:32] No, really, stop.

Speaker 9:
[15:34] You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

Speaker 2:
[15:41] I participate in McDonald's While Supplies Last.

Speaker 4:
[15:52] Speaking of your kids, you have a great chapter, Falling Down the Food Chain. Very self-reflective, talk to me about that.

Speaker 5:
[15:59] Yeah, so I joked about how I was tied for number one before my kids were born in the house. And then I was demoted 17 rungs or so when that kid was born because then priorities one through 17 were all like the baby. And then priority 18 was mom, and then 19 was whoever helped mom. And then somewhere below that was like me and the dog. So we were like literally the dog house. And I think that that's something a lot of dads can relate to, and we don't talk about it enough that first year. So I try and warn new dads. I take them aside privately and say, hey, FYI, things might suck.

Speaker 4:
[16:42] I want to stay on 28. Handicap the field. You mentioned the usual suspects. Talk to me about who you think the strongest candidates are.

Speaker 5:
[17:19] I think Gavin Newsom is right now the front runner, and he's going to be one of the top candidates the entire way. In part, Donny, because he has what you just said, the Democratic Party lacks, which is testosterone. Have you spent time with Gavin?

Speaker 4:
[17:35] I haven't met Gavin, but he does have that right. He has that pugilistic kind of attitude thing that he's done a good job. He's really found the cadence that others have not found.

Speaker 5:
[17:46] You would think that even more so after you meet him, which I'm sure you will upcoming. But the dude is tall, handsome, charismatic and grew up a high level baseball player in California with a learning disability. So the dude's a bro. And people underestimate how much Democrats are going to be craving someone with that kind of macho energy that can go toe to toe with whoever the Republicans are running, which could be, you know, I don't think Trump runs again for a third term. The two likely front runners are JD Vance or Marco Rubio.

Speaker 4:
[18:24] Sure.

Speaker 5:
[18:25] So that's what I imagine the field looking like. Now, some people are going to say, like, obviously, the Democrats have a lot more candidates. And I know many of them. I like, I like Josh.

Speaker 4:
[18:35] I like Josh a lot. I like Josh Shapiro a lot.

Speaker 5:
[18:37] Josh Shapiro is very strong. You know, he's going to be there, I think, the whole way. I think, I think Westmore is going to have a following. I think Gretchen Woodward is going to have a following. I think JB. Pritzker is quite formidable and has a real story to tell and has a bankroll that he walks around with. So, you know, I mean, there's going to be a real religion.

Speaker 4:
[19:01] You know, you name the top guy. I have a weird theory on the Republicans. Everybody's obviously saying right now it's Rubio and Vance. I wouldn't rule out, and I say this scarily, Donald Trump Jr. I think if Trump can't stay there, he's going to say, well, I want my next best thing, and I can still kind of control the White House.

Speaker 5:
[19:21] I wouldn't put it past them for sure, but I just think that that wouldn't go well. You know, I mean, like, Trump Jr. is nowhere near the performer's dad is.

Speaker 4:
[19:30] Yeah, but it would be an interesting scenario. And I can't see Trump anointing anybody. Like, in other words, I think he almost wants the party to fail after he goes. It's such a weird dynamic. There's a lot of guys, when they sell their company, they're not rooting for the company to succeed. They're rooting for it to fail so they can define their own competence or greatness or whatever. And I think that's Trump's certainly that's in his DNA.

Speaker 5:
[19:51] You know, Donny, that's very insightful. And you're right. You know, I mean, if you're a really, really high quality leader, then you have a succession plan and the company thrives without you. But if you're like a personality driven organization, sometimes the founder wants it to fail.

Speaker 4:
[20:11] Yeah. Let's talk about the mobile company. Really interesting foundation.

Speaker 5:
[20:16] You should love it, Donny. So check it out. People come up to me and say, Hey, Yang, where's my thousand bucks? And I realized, wow, is there something that we can do to make Americans financially stronger and healthier? And my friend Mark Cuban started a company called Cost Plus Drugs that buys generic drugs in bulk and sells them to the American public at a modest markup. So I called Mark and I was like, dude, you're a genius. We should be doing more like this. And he was like, thanks, thanks. I think his quote to me exactly was, my only goal is to fuck up the pharmaceutical industry. And I was like, that's a very real goal, brother. And so then I took out the Sharpie, made a list of the other major expenses that Americans spend money on every month. And it goes number one, housing, number two, health care, threes, education, and child care. Four is food, five is fuel, six is transportation. Fuel includes energy and heating oil and that stuff. Six is transportation, seven is media, and then eight is wireless. And Donny, I'm going to put you on the spot. I don't know the answer.

Speaker 4:
[21:30] You're going to ask me, what do I spend? I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 5:
[21:33] Yeah, that is what I was going to spend. I was just spending on your wireless. So I was spending $150 a month on Verizon just for myself. Not great. That's above average. The average American is spending $83 a month for those people watching this or listening to this. Now, most people our age, Donny, are spending a lot more than that because we got put on some plan.

Speaker 4:
[21:54] We don't even know we're still on it. Yeah, we don't even know.

Speaker 5:
[21:56] Yeah, like one guy shouldn't out him because it's ridiculous. But he was spending almost $2,000 a month on a wireless plan just for one number because there were like 10 other numbers on his account and he did not recognize a single one of them. He was like, I have no idea what these numbers are. Now, I mean, this guy is worth like eight figures or whatever. But that like AT&T was just like billing of 2000 a month.

Speaker 4:
[22:26] I'm sure he's not alone. I'm sure he's not alone.

Speaker 5:
[22:29] Well, I'm sure he's not alone.

Speaker 4:
[22:30] So talk to me about the talk to me with the essence of the company and what you do that's different.

Speaker 5:
[22:34] Oh, yeah. So that's all the elaborate backdrop. So check it out. Average American spending 83 a month, average European spending 35 a month. That delta of 48 a month adds up to $100 billion over the entire country. And so my big question was, can I get that cost down for the consumer? So I went to the three mega carriers, Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile, and said, what will you give us as this deal? And I came equipped with a very, very slick deck, but also the fact that my friend Scott Galloway had-

Speaker 4:
[23:14] Scott was on the show two weeks ago.

Speaker 5:
[23:17] Yeah, so Scott invested a million dollars as the first investor, and Scott obviously has his own following. So when I went in with the T-Mobile headquarters in Seattle, technically Bellevue, but whatever, so I had Scott Galloway, me, some other fun, fancy people, you added up, and we had millions and millions of followers. You could have been on this deck, Donny, I should have called you. And so T-Mobile came back and said, okay, here's the deal we will give you for the data. And so the deal is tremendous enough where we can cut the average American cell phone bill in half. The average Noble Mobile user is using a certain amount of data and is paying us 42 a month, which is half of the 83 the average American spends. But then the kicker, the reason why it's Noble is that any data you don't use in a given month, we will give you half the money back. We're essentially profit sharing with the customer. So you have an incentive to use your phone and social media a little bit less. So you get money back because we're simple creatures.

Speaker 4:
[24:23] I see Galloway is out there promoting it also.

Speaker 5:
[24:25] Yeah, shoot. I mean, he's promoting his own book because he's got a million. It's actually more than a million now because he invested more. Like when we started taking in more money, he was like, I don't want to get diluted. So we just announced that Chelsea Handler is a new endorser, and we're sponsoring her tour. We got a guy named Arthur Brooks, who's going to be announced.

Speaker 4:
[24:51] He's great. He's great. He's fantastic.

Speaker 5:
[24:53] I love Arthur.

Speaker 4:
[24:53] Yeah. So you figure it out, let's get the influencers and then we can influence people. It's not too complicated. I mean, it is very complicated, but when you break it down, it's kind of a duh.

Speaker 5:
[25:03] Dude, it is not that complicated. And this is the pitch to investors too. It's like, they're walking, talking, customer acquisition engines. I'm talking to one of them right now. His name is Donny and he's a frustrated hooper. Yeah. But, you know, like Scott's one, I'm one. And so my pitch to everyone was like, look, each of us is sitting on six or seven figures worth of wireless subs because everyone's getting screwed. Everyone's getting gouged. And if you can let them know, I mean, I switched from Verizon to Noble myself, obviously. And even I was nervous about whether my service would be as good, even though technically I knew it would be.

Speaker 4:
[25:36] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[25:37] Because the networks with the transition to 5G all achieved parity. But when I figured out that I was overpaying Verizon for nothing over those months and that years, like 20 years, and that it only took me five minutes to switch, I was like, oh my God, like it's like eating your own cooking, Donny.

Speaker 4:
[25:57] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[25:58] But like the data is truly a commodity at this point.

Speaker 4:
[26:02] Is there a valuation for the company at this point?

Speaker 5:
[26:04] So right now, our last raise, gosh, I guess this is quasi public. Was that like a 31.5 million dollar valuation?

Speaker 4:
[26:13] Right. You know, let's talk about it. I got some money to spend next round.

Speaker 5:
[26:18] Donny, do you have my numbers or just like text me?

Speaker 4:
[26:21] I'll get it from you. Okay. I'll get it from you.

Speaker 5:
[26:22] Let's do it, man. We can have the great Donny Deutsch on the cap table. Nothing's going to stop us.

Speaker 4:
[26:28] There you go. There you go. Hey, before I let you go, one thing that is part of your brand and is kind of threaded throughout the book is optimism. And I love that. Talk to me what we should be optimistic about.

Speaker 5:
[26:40] Well, we should be optimistic about what's going on in our own lives, our relationships, our family, our friends. I just called my mom yesterday because it was her birthday. We should feel good about what's happening day to day. And anytime we get sad, we should call someone that we owe that phone call to, or reach out to someone in your own neighborhood and community. And just build, because that's what makes the world go round. That's what's gonna help our kids see what they should be doing. And I feel great about some of the people that I'm working with on Noble. I feel great about the fact that I'm helping create careers and opportunities for people. And this is something of a bookend to the way this conversation started. Am I deeply concerned about what AI is gonna do to jobs and maybe even our sense of what's real and not real? Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, anyone who's kept up with me, like I was jumping up and down in Iowa and New Hampshire about this seven, eight years ago. So I think you can be an optimist about our own ventures, activities, organizations, and also be clear-eyed about the challenges. But I will say, the challenges make me all the more grateful for everything that I have a chance to do every day.

Speaker 4:
[28:02] Well, on a personal note, I hope you throw your hat into the ring 28. We could use your voice. You truly are a man of the people. Congratulations on your success. I love talking. I could talk to you all day, my friend.

Speaker 5:
[28:11] Well, Donny, thank you, man. I'll come back anytime. And yeah, I'm going to get your phone number. We're going to talk.

Speaker 4:
[28:16] We're going to do it. The book is Hey Yang, Where's My Thousand Bucks? It's a must read. Thanks for taking the time, my friend.

Speaker 5:
[28:21] Thanks, Donny.

Speaker 10:
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