transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:49] Welcome to I Said No Gifts. I'm Bridger Winegar. We're in the backyard. This is a rare occasion. We're out here. The sun is slowly raising the temperature. I'm going to be uncomfortable. What's going on? I have three buckets of gravel to move in the driveway, which is, you know, I'm saving that for myself, a little special something for later. It's nice to have something to live for. That's, and I have weekend plans. That's my weekend plan, is moving three buckets of gravel. Or maybe I won't, maybe I'll let it sit there for three more weeks and then I'll get wet from the rain and then I'll have to wait again. This is the, this is my life. This is what we're doing. I'm living at a hundred miles per hour. The birds are loud. I don't think there's any business we have to talk about, which is incredible. We should just get into the podcast. I love today's guest. It's Rachel Kaly. Rachel, welcome to I Said No Gifts.

Speaker 2:
[01:47] Thanks so much.

Speaker 1:
[01:49] How are you feeling about the temperature so far?

Speaker 2:
[01:51] Well, there was just a breeze that was quite nice, but I'm definitely not looking forward to it.

Speaker 1:
[01:59] The breeze is actually not too... It's a nice little refresher every few minutes.

Speaker 2:
[02:04] It's completely lovely when it happens, but when it's not happening, it's not amazing.

Speaker 1:
[02:08] You're just begging for it to come back.

Speaker 2:
[02:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:12] What have you been doing this week?

Speaker 2:
[02:14] Oh my god. Well, the truth is, I'm spending a lot of time on my phone. Which I'm sure... Yeah, unfortunately, I'm allowing myself to.

Speaker 1:
[02:26] Oh.

Speaker 2:
[02:26] And I'm not meaning to plug right up top.

Speaker 1:
[02:28] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[02:29] But I am in season two of Jury Duty.

Speaker 3:
[02:32] Save it for later. But that's why I'm on my phone so much.

Speaker 1:
[02:35] You have to get on there and you have to post clips. You've got to post things. Yes. You've got to create.

Speaker 2:
[02:40] I'm letting myself look and refresh, look and refresh. All hours, hours, hours.

Speaker 1:
[02:45] Are you looking for the likes?

Speaker 2:
[02:47] Likes, follows. Is it from a verified account? Is someone DMing me to tell me something amazing? Do they have something mean to say? Looking at comments at times.

Speaker 1:
[02:57] Have they read any mean things?

Speaker 2:
[02:58] Definitely.

Speaker 1:
[02:59] Do you interact with mean people?

Speaker 2:
[03:01] You know, I don't mind it. Like I would like to, but the issue is I don't know if they will then come for me. Like I'm like, it's a little like when you're yelling at someone from a car and you're like, do they have a gun?

Speaker 1:
[03:14] Right, right.

Speaker 2:
[03:15] That's how I feel about interacting with mean comments.

Speaker 1:
[03:18] Right. If it was like an even back and forth of meanness, that would be fine. Yeah, that's what I worry about sometimes too. If I go back at them, then God knows what they have planned.

Speaker 2:
[03:27] I mean, they're just waiting for the dam to burst.

Speaker 1:
[03:30] Right. They have full access to attack.

Speaker 2:
[03:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[03:33] And I can only kind of just comment back.

Speaker 2:
[03:34] Right. Have you had a mean, really mean?

Speaker 1:
[03:36] Oh, I get lots of mean things. But I never interact. I mean, I kind of, the feeling of power for me is to make that person just feel unbelievably alone in the world by not getting any response.

Speaker 2:
[03:48] Right. I just want to talk to them all face to face.

Speaker 1:
[03:51] That would be nice.

Speaker 2:
[03:52] Because I think, you know, it's the anonymity that is the issue. But also, no worries.

Speaker 1:
[04:00] The other thing that I think contributes to some of this is some people, I think, some people know they're being mean. Some people are absolutely horrible.

Speaker 2:
[04:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:07] Some people just do not know how to process their thoughts through writing.

Speaker 2:
[04:13] Right.

Speaker 1:
[04:14] And so I think that they're just like, this seems like a fine thing to say to another person because they don't really know how to modulate.

Speaker 2:
[04:21] Right. They're new to journaling.

Speaker 1:
[04:23] Truly.

Speaker 2:
[04:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:24] Because most people are bad at writing.

Speaker 2:
[04:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:27] Bad at just, I mean, like typing, you know, like in...

Speaker 2:
[04:31] Like that.

Speaker 1:
[04:31] Yeah. They're bad at, like they barely made it through high school.

Speaker 2:
[04:35] Right.

Speaker 1:
[04:36] And so then they get online and they have access to be able to write things, but they never really figured it out.

Speaker 2:
[04:40] Right. I mean, absolutely. The democratization of it all. Who's to say if it's for good?

Speaker 1:
[04:46] I think it's ultimately for the absolute worst.

Speaker 2:
[04:50] Yeah. We're just going to have to see, I think.

Speaker 1:
[04:53] I think we're going to see probably sooner than later.

Speaker 2:
[04:55] I know.

Speaker 1:
[04:56] I think it's like we're finally coming to a head a little bit with something's going to break.

Speaker 2:
[05:00] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[05:02] But I don't know what's next.

Speaker 2:
[05:04] It's like when you're in a video game and the thing breaks and you have to jump to the next thing. I wonder what the next thing is.

Speaker 1:
[05:11] Right. Like when the little thing is like in the lava and you jump on it and it's like you've got three seconds and you have to get to the next one.

Speaker 2:
[05:17] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[05:17] I think God knows how long that will last. Or it might be a really long platform to get to walk along.

Speaker 2:
[05:21] I mean, who's to say? That's what it's feeling like more and more every day.

Speaker 1:
[05:26] Right. So you're online, you're looking for the likes, you're looking for the verified users. We all know verified users now are almost meaningless.

Speaker 2:
[05:33] Nothing. I'm looking, these guys have 497 followers. I'm going to kill myself. That's horrible.

Speaker 1:
[05:42] At 400 followers, why do you decide I now need to be verified?

Speaker 2:
[05:47] Well, I am looking at them because they are.

Speaker 1:
[05:49] I guess it's just like...

Speaker 2:
[05:50] So it's bringing eyes. But it is like, I don't understand. I don't know the point myself.

Speaker 1:
[05:56] Because it brings eyes, but then the person looking at you is now just annoyed with you and thinks even less of you as a person.

Speaker 2:
[06:01] Right.

Speaker 1:
[06:02] It's never like, wow, look at these horrible photos they took of their family.

Speaker 2:
[06:06] No.

Speaker 1:
[06:06] I've got to get on board with this.

Speaker 2:
[06:07] Yeah, it's just like, I don't understand. But I am, I'm doing a deep dive. A lot of them have businesses they're trying to start.

Speaker 1:
[06:15] Right, right. It sounds difficult. Just make a decent business.

Speaker 2:
[06:20] Right.

Speaker 1:
[06:21] Take some decent photos and game the system that way.

Speaker 2:
[06:23] Imagine.

Speaker 1:
[06:25] Do they hand out verification at this point or is it all purchased?

Speaker 2:
[06:29] No, you can, not to brag, but I got it. But I applied.

Speaker 1:
[06:33] You applied, right.

Speaker 2:
[06:34] This is like, I had been applying for years. I had a similar thing with Raya, the dating app, where I did it way too early. I applied to Raya in 2016. I was still in college.

Speaker 1:
[06:46] Those were like, that's when they may have had celebrities in there.

Speaker 2:
[06:49] Well, exactly. And I just was like, well, I'm doing comedy in New York, so let me give it a shot. And now I can't get on it.

Speaker 1:
[06:58] Why can't you get on it?

Speaker 2:
[06:58] Because I tried too early and they won't let me like update, even though I add referrals of like, you know, right, real people. They're not, they're like, aw, I didn't realize she's too desperate.

Speaker 1:
[07:10] It's like a one time thing.

Speaker 2:
[07:11] Well, it's not supposed to be. I don't understand what the issue is. But I did have that thing with Instagram too, where I kept, cause they asked for like, news articles about you.

Speaker 1:
[07:19] Right, it's very odd.

Speaker 2:
[07:21] And I kept putting in the same ones, cause there were no new ones coming up for many years. And they were just like, stop! But they finally gave it to me.

Speaker 1:
[07:28] But those were news articles. What was the problem with those ones?

Speaker 2:
[07:31] Well, they were written about me when I was like, quite young.

Speaker 1:
[07:35] Oh, so they would have verified you as a child.

Speaker 2:
[07:38] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[07:39] Or now an Instagram teen.

Speaker 2:
[07:41] Right, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[07:42] I would love to have an Instagram teen account. It sounds like so much fun.

Speaker 2:
[07:46] I need like, I need guardrails.

Speaker 1:
[07:49] I think everyone does.

Speaker 2:
[07:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[07:50] I think that I've said this before, I feel like there should be some sort of test, and then maybe you like get certain powers.

Speaker 2:
[07:56] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[07:57] And like certain abilities to use.

Speaker 2:
[07:58] Like posting or even like-

Speaker 1:
[08:00] You know, like posting, commenting.

Speaker 2:
[08:01] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:03] Liking, sharing.

Speaker 2:
[08:05] You have to earn it.

Speaker 1:
[08:06] Yeah, you have to earn it. Not everybody knows how to do it.

Speaker 2:
[08:09] No.

Speaker 1:
[08:09] Not everyone should be trusted with that responsibility.

Speaker 2:
[08:11] But I feel grateful for the people who don't know how to do it and still do it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[08:16] They're more fun to watch.

Speaker 2:
[08:18] Yes, like that's what all my reels are, I guess. It's like people turning on the camera, forgetting. I see what, you know, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:
[08:28] The reels that I enjoy most are probably people who would not pass the test.

Speaker 2:
[08:31] Right, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[08:32] And then what am I looking at? My competent friends?

Speaker 2:
[08:35] Yes, and that's so boring.

Speaker 1:
[08:36] I don't have anything to do with that.

Speaker 2:
[08:37] No one watches any of this.

Speaker 1:
[08:38] No, absolutely not.

Speaker 2:
[08:40] No, they want to see someone, you know.

Speaker 1:
[08:42] Kind of losing their mind in the Midwest. Yeah, that's, I'm sorry to hear. Are you going to get back off once the promotion cycle is over?

Speaker 2:
[08:52] I'm not sure what's going to happen to me. I don't know what to say. I don't know. I really don't know. I've been thinking about this.

Speaker 1:
[09:01] What were you doing prior to all of this?

Speaker 2:
[09:03] I was trying to curb my usage. I had like deleted TikTok, Twitter's gone, but now it's all back. And I'm on it and I feel crazy. And then I saw this study that just came out that shows even two weeks off your phone makes your brain 10 times healthier.

Speaker 1:
[09:22] Do we believe it?

Speaker 2:
[09:23] I'm believing it. They had him hooked up to all this stuff. They were testing his reaction time. Went up 23% after two weeks. And I'm like, well, I think I need that.

Speaker 1:
[09:36] I could become a pro baseball player after that.

Speaker 2:
[09:39] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[09:40] Maybe I'll consider it. It's the thing where you're like, but what if something, what if I miss something?

Speaker 2:
[09:46] I know. And you will.

Speaker 1:
[09:47] You'll miss the best days of your life on Instagram.

Speaker 2:
[09:50] Yeah. It's tough, but I'm trying to get back out into the world.

Speaker 1:
[09:55] What do you do to get back out into the world?

Speaker 2:
[09:58] This is my issue. I used to have hobbies.

Speaker 1:
[10:01] Like what?

Speaker 2:
[10:02] I did pottery.

Speaker 1:
[10:03] Okay, that's a real hobby.

Speaker 2:
[10:04] I did painting.

Speaker 1:
[10:05] Okay, oh wow.

Speaker 2:
[10:05] And on Montaigne, I was that good at it.

Speaker 1:
[10:07] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[10:07] But it took up a lot of my time.

Speaker 1:
[10:09] Right.

Speaker 2:
[10:09] I would walk for hours.

Speaker 1:
[10:12] That's not a, I'm not going to qualify that as a hobby, but it's an activity.

Speaker 2:
[10:15] But it took up a lot of my time. Those are kind of it.

Speaker 1:
[10:22] Those are, I mean, you named two solid hobbies. That's more than I have.

Speaker 2:
[10:25] Really? You have no hobbies?

Speaker 1:
[10:26] Not currently, no. No hobbies.

Speaker 2:
[10:28] You have soil or gravel.

Speaker 1:
[10:30] Oh, I forgot.

Speaker 3:
[10:31] I carry buckets of gravel.

Speaker 2:
[10:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:34] But Instagram takes up all my time. Otherwise, I would be constantly carrying gravel.

Speaker 2:
[10:38] Is the gravel for gardening? What's the deal?

Speaker 1:
[10:40] It's the backyard. Our dog destroyed our lawn.

Speaker 2:
[10:44] You have a dog.

Speaker 1:
[10:45] She's the best, but she's like a raptor. And so she destroyed the entire lawn when we were playing fetch. And we needed to get rid of the lawn anyway. It's Los Angeles. So now it's like pebbles, but the landscapers left me extra pebbles. And they said, do you want us to put these somewhere? And I don't know what was going through my mind when I said, Oh, don't worry. Because they're each like 80 pounds of pebbles.

Speaker 2:
[11:10] Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[11:12] So now they're just sitting there and just kind of making me feel bad all the time.

Speaker 2:
[11:16] You could sell those on Facebook Marketplace easy.

Speaker 1:
[11:19] Probably.

Speaker 2:
[11:20] For sure. Someone would come get it today.

Speaker 1:
[11:23] But then when I need the pebbles, what do I do?

Speaker 2:
[11:26] Well, then I don't know how to help you.

Speaker 1:
[11:27] Yeah, I don't want to face a life where I don't have extra pebbles lying around.

Speaker 2:
[11:30] No. Did you choose all these plants?

Speaker 1:
[11:36] No. When I bought the house, this is how it was.

Speaker 2:
[11:39] I have to say, you're telling me stuff that is amazing to hear and you'll see why later.

Speaker 1:
[11:45] Incredible. This kind of happens on this podcast sometimes.

Speaker 2:
[11:49] Really?

Speaker 1:
[11:49] There's something, I think we've talked simulation to death, but there's something about this podcast that feels like someone's pushing buttons and putting things in line. I mean, the things this podcast has predicted.

Speaker 2:
[12:02] Really?

Speaker 1:
[12:03] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[12:03] Like what?

Speaker 1:
[12:05] Everything.

Speaker 2:
[12:05] Oh my God, I'm sure.

Speaker 1:
[12:07] The pandemic.

Speaker 2:
[12:08] Yeah, I believe that. It's like The Simpsons.

Speaker 1:
[12:10] Yeah, it's very much like The Simpsons.

Speaker 2:
[12:12] Which I've never seen.

Speaker 1:
[12:13] You've never seen The Simpsons?

Speaker 2:
[12:15] No.

Speaker 1:
[12:16] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[12:16] You've seen clips, I bet.

Speaker 2:
[12:18] When I was a kid and we always watched Seinfeld, but The Simpsons came on after Seinfeld, I would see the first two minutes and then get scared and turn it off.

Speaker 1:
[12:28] You would get scared?

Speaker 2:
[12:29] I find animation very scary. I've mostly worked in animation and I find it completely terrifying.

Speaker 1:
[12:37] What's so frightening about it for you?

Speaker 2:
[12:39] The issue is that to me, animation is like mainlining someone else's brain.

Speaker 1:
[12:45] Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2:
[12:46] It's like the only time you can see exactly what someone sees in their brain. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[12:52] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[12:53] That to me is like looking at the stars.

Speaker 1:
[12:55] Wow. That's really a fascinating thing.

Speaker 2:
[12:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[12:59] I've never thought about it. I mean, I guess that's art. Do you just freak out at the museum?

Speaker 2:
[13:04] Yeah. I think because animation moves.

Speaker 1:
[13:08] Right. It's even more like you're seeing how things move in someone's mind.

Speaker 2:
[13:12] Blech. I really don't like it.

Speaker 1:
[13:15] Is there any animation you like? What's your favorite animated thing?

Speaker 2:
[13:20] There was a period of time in college where I was like just so mentally ill that I couldn't watch shows that had anything I could relate to.

Speaker 1:
[13:30] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[13:31] So like any relationship stuff or like money or like sad family stuff. So I watched kids shows.

Speaker 1:
[13:38] Right.

Speaker 2:
[13:39] And I got really into the backyard again.

Speaker 1:
[13:41] Oh, I'm not familiar.

Speaker 2:
[13:42] Well, why would you be? It's a show for kids created not so long ago, but it's gorgeous. And they're singing and they're so happy.

Speaker 1:
[13:51] And they live in a backyard.

Speaker 2:
[13:53] It's animals that are living, I think in New York City.

Speaker 1:
[13:56] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[13:57] They play in the backyard.

Speaker 1:
[13:59] The rare backyard. Well, they live in someone's rich person's yard.

Speaker 2:
[14:03] Maybe it's not New York City.

Speaker 1:
[14:04] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[14:04] They all live in different houses.

Speaker 1:
[14:06] Okay. Now the concept of the show is kind of falling apart for me.

Speaker 2:
[14:10] Yeah. It was a while ago that I watched it.

Speaker 1:
[14:13] Oh, they're animals. They're not elven creatures.

Speaker 2:
[14:15] No, no. It's like cow, cute cow.

Speaker 1:
[14:18] Okay, cute.

Speaker 2:
[14:19] Rhino maybe. They're so cute.

Speaker 1:
[14:22] And that was the end of animation for you.

Speaker 2:
[14:24] Yeah. That's pretty much all. I definitely watched it as a kid, but it did. It always gave me.

Speaker 1:
[14:30] That's such a good point. That's really fascinating.

Speaker 2:
[14:32] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[14:33] Yeah. That's something that I think you learn really early on. This thing I'm looking at, it may not look the same to me as somebody else.

Speaker 2:
[14:42] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[14:42] And now you've really brought this into a whole full circle.

Speaker 2:
[14:45] Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[14:47] Magical.

Speaker 2:
[14:48] I know. It's interesting.

Speaker 1:
[14:49] The power of animation, the power of art.

Speaker 2:
[14:51] Yeah. I find it scary.

Speaker 1:
[14:54] Okay. But you have given up on painting yourself.

Speaker 2:
[14:58] Yeah. I'm trying to get back into it a bit. I'm trying to get back into anything that is not something I can monetize, basically.

Speaker 1:
[15:07] Right.

Speaker 2:
[15:07] But then I have sold my artwork before.

Speaker 1:
[15:10] Oh.

Speaker 2:
[15:11] Well, it was like a desperate thing during COVID when I had no work and people were being quite generous.

Speaker 1:
[15:18] What sort of art is it?

Speaker 2:
[15:19] The pottery is pretty poorly made, kind of like weird shapes.

Speaker 1:
[15:24] Right.

Speaker 2:
[15:25] Like, you know, three-legged planters when that was like fun in 2019. And then the paintings, it started because I would go to paint and sip.

Speaker 1:
[15:36] Okay, sure.

Speaker 2:
[15:37] And then I would start getting crazy. I would add silly stuff.

Speaker 1:
[15:41] Upon sipping?

Speaker 2:
[15:43] No sipping.

Speaker 1:
[15:43] No sipping?

Speaker 2:
[15:44] I'm not going there to sip, I'm going there to paint. I'm one of the only sober people there. Usually like a bachelor at a party and then me sober painting 9-11 onto the sunset that we were instructed to make. So then I just got into painting.

Speaker 1:
[16:01] Right. Oh, so pottery was your journey into painting? No.

Speaker 2:
[16:07] They ran, tongue-drew it.

Speaker 1:
[16:09] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[16:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[16:10] Was there any of that before like in high school or anything?

Speaker 2:
[16:13] I had always, well, I also embroider.

Speaker 1:
[16:15] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[16:16] I like crafts.

Speaker 1:
[16:17] Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[16:17] I got a little into furniture building during COVID.

Speaker 1:
[16:20] You're very handy.

Speaker 2:
[16:21] I like to be handy. There was a moment also not to keep talking about COVID.

Speaker 1:
[16:27] So interesting. I think people are craving it.

Speaker 2:
[16:29] Okay. Great. Just to bring it back. I got into a woodworking school.

Speaker 1:
[16:34] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[16:36] I would have gone and lived in Vermont for two years.

Speaker 1:
[16:38] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[16:39] It felt like the perfect time because it was like, whatever. Then I ultimately decided not to at the last minute to continue making videos. But I regret it. But I was really like, I had taught myself everything I could teach myself woodworking wise and wanted to.

Speaker 1:
[16:56] And were you learning like through YouTube? Was that how you were doing it?

Speaker 2:
[16:59] I would say wikiHow.

Speaker 1:
[17:00] Oh, wikiHow. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[17:01] Yeah. It wasn't even YouTube. Like it was really dangerous.

Speaker 1:
[17:04] And what were you making?

Speaker 2:
[17:06] I made like a stool that I had tiled. I tiled a stool myself when that was kind of a big trend. I made a waterfall stool that never quite supported much weight.

Speaker 1:
[17:21] Right.

Speaker 2:
[17:21] But was pretty.

Speaker 1:
[17:22] More for a child or something.

Speaker 2:
[17:24] I made a couple tables.

Speaker 1:
[17:25] Okay. Where were you putting all of this?

Speaker 2:
[17:28] I was, they were small. But I had a friend who was a painter. And so I would go to her studio. And it was like just like sort of a studio for any discipline. So they had a lot of like different things you could use and store and make. And so I would use like power tools there, which I had no like it was I almost cut stuff off.

Speaker 1:
[17:53] Oh my god. Professionals constantly cut stuff off, let alone somebody just starting off.

Speaker 2:
[17:58] Right. And it was like I'd be like, oh yeah, like I get, you know, I do it with no mask, no goggles and then I'd be like, oh right. Got to do that.

Speaker 1:
[18:08] Kaling saw dust, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2:
[18:10] I was trying, I tried to do some like stuff where I wanted to like freeze stuff in resin.

Speaker 1:
[18:18] Okay, sure.

Speaker 2:
[18:19] Which is extremely dangerous.

Speaker 1:
[18:21] How so?

Speaker 2:
[18:22] Just the chemicals, like if it's not ventilated well and I was like heating it up, which you're not supposed to. I was just trying stuff.

Speaker 1:
[18:29] Right.

Speaker 2:
[18:30] So you know, I would like to get back into the spirit of that.

Speaker 1:
[18:34] And how did you apply to the wood school? Did you have to like show them photos or?

Speaker 2:
[18:38] I sent photos of the stuff I had made and I have to imagine I wrote an essay.

Speaker 1:
[18:45] That would have been such a turn for you.

Speaker 2:
[18:47] I know, I'm regretting it. I'm regretting it, but it's also like, I don't know, actually it's just regret. It's just regret. Would have been so awesome. I think I'd be so much happier.

Speaker 1:
[19:02] Right. You probably, I mean, let's be honest, you would have.

Speaker 2:
[19:04] Yeah, there's no question.

Speaker 1:
[19:06] Anyone in comedy, if they just would pick up a skill and just make things, it would probably be much better off.

Speaker 2:
[19:11] Feels better, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:14] So those are my hobbies. But why bother? You could be on Instagram.

Speaker 2:
[19:16] Right. Well, and ultimately, woodworkers are posting their stuff to Instagram at times.

Speaker 1:
[19:21] Right.

Speaker 2:
[19:22] Depends who you are, but.

Speaker 1:
[19:23] Right. Yeah, there's a, you know, there's a whole, you can kind of turn anything into a thing that hurts you at this point. That just kind of keeps you on that. Which is, it's nice to know. You have that option.

Speaker 2:
[19:35] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[19:35] When you get bored of just being satisfied with yourself, you can kind of open it up to the public.

Speaker 2:
[19:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:40] Beg for their approval.

Speaker 2:
[19:41] Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 1:
[19:43] Well, look, you've already brought it up. I mean, you hinted at something, and I guess we should just talk about it now.

Speaker 2:
[19:49] What is it?

Speaker 1:
[19:50] You were going, you were, here on I Said No Gifts, I was looking forward to having you. So I was thrown when you kind of trotted into the backyard holding this gorgeous Chanel bag.

Speaker 2:
[20:02] Oh, sure.

Speaker 1:
[20:03] Flung over your shoulder.

Speaker 2:
[20:04] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[20:05] Is this a gift for me?

Speaker 2:
[20:07] Well, it pretty much is. Pretty much it is.

Speaker 1:
[20:11] Should we open it here on the podcast?

Speaker 2:
[20:12] Yeah. It's a little bit of an experience.

Speaker 1:
[20:18] Oh, we rarely get an experience gift on this. Is that true? I think there have been very few. There was indoor skydiving.

Speaker 2:
[20:25] Oh, no, nothing like that. This is contained and barely an experience.

Speaker 1:
[20:30] And I'll also say the indoor skydiving place has closed down.

Speaker 2:
[20:32] Oh, really? So you didn't get to go?

Speaker 1:
[20:34] No, I went. Then they were probably like, we're done. Shut it down.

Speaker 2:
[20:38] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[20:38] But I think that, Ellis, that's probably the one experience that I've had on this podcast, right?

Speaker 2:
[20:43] Did that make you want to go real skydiving?

Speaker 1:
[20:46] No. Would you?

Speaker 2:
[20:47] I want to try indoor. I don't think I would do real skydiving, but there's a part of me that could see myself doing it.

Speaker 1:
[20:56] Indoor is fine. It was very fun. It was a good time. But I mean, I've said this before, but doing real skydiving, I really think that like primal animal instinct in me would become so strong when they're about to jump out that I would like fight off the person that's attached to me and then cause my death. So I just, I can't trust my lizard brain.

Speaker 2:
[21:16] What about clonopin?

Speaker 1:
[21:18] No, I don't even think that. I think my body, every chemical in my body would overcome that.

Speaker 2:
[21:22] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[21:23] Then I would die and kill someone along with it.

Speaker 2:
[21:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:26] Kill a professional.

Speaker 2:
[21:26] It's possible. I had a, I was, I went to the Madonna Inn for the first time. And I had a couple weeks ago and I had a waiter who just kept coming over to ask me questions about my life. I loved him. And on about the fourth round, he was like, have you ever gone skydiving? And I said, no. And he said he had just done it and he was going for his sixth run this week. And he wanted to get certified so that he could take people like me to go skydiving.

Speaker 1:
[21:52] So is he using the Madonna Inn as kind of a place to get new customers?

Speaker 2:
[21:56] It felt a little bit like that.

Speaker 1:
[21:57] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[21:58] But I'm really rooting for him.

Speaker 1:
[22:00] Yeah, good for him.

Speaker 2:
[22:01] Yeah. But now it's on my mind.

Speaker 1:
[22:03] How was the Madonna Inn in general? I've only ever driven past. I'm very familiar.

Speaker 2:
[22:07] It was really fun. It smelled crazy.

Speaker 1:
[22:09] That makes total sense.

Speaker 2:
[22:10] The rooms smelled crazy.

Speaker 1:
[22:12] Probably not well ventilated.

Speaker 2:
[22:13] No, certainly not. And it is truly on the highway.

Speaker 1:
[22:16] Right.

Speaker 2:
[22:17] But the pool is amazing. I went to the bar and they have this drink with whipped cream. And it was someone's wedding and they let us dance at the wedding.

Speaker 1:
[22:27] Oh, how fun.

Speaker 2:
[22:28] It was really fun.

Speaker 1:
[22:29] Oh, that sounds nice. I need to go there at least once.

Speaker 2:
[22:31] You should.

Speaker 1:
[22:32] It just never feels like the right time to go to the Madonna Inn.

Speaker 2:
[22:36] Yeah. I sort of did it on the way back from Big Sur.

Speaker 1:
[22:41] Oh, right. It feels like something on the way back.

Speaker 2:
[22:43] I can't imagine it being a destination. And the guy who started it is quite interesting, but I can't remember anything about him.

Speaker 1:
[22:52] What was the theme of the room you were in?

Speaker 2:
[22:54] Rocks. That was the thing. It was kind of last minute, so we got a shitty room, but it was rocks. And it was all carpet. It was like carpet that has been there for 40 years. And I'm like, people are coming into this, throwing up. No question. You can't clean a carpet.

Speaker 1:
[23:13] There's certainly blood in there.

Speaker 2:
[23:15] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[23:15] There's like every liquid you could get into that.

Speaker 2:
[23:17] Which is, I think, the fun of the Madonna Inn. But I don't, I'm watching the come back right now. And I just had the urge to say her catchphrase.

Speaker 1:
[23:28] Oh, of course.

Speaker 2:
[23:29] That is so crazy that that just happened to me. Really enjoying the show though.

Speaker 1:
[23:33] You're watching it for the first time.

Speaker 2:
[23:35] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[23:35] Oh my God. It's so good.

Speaker 2:
[23:36] She's unreal.

Speaker 1:
[23:37] She's just like, she can truly do anything.

Speaker 2:
[23:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[23:39] How far into it are you?

Speaker 2:
[23:41] I'm about to finish season one. I had tried watching it many times before and couldn't get into it. And everyone's been like, you just need to push through. Right. And now I'm like, thank God.

Speaker 1:
[23:51] What were you, was it making you uncomfortable to watch it?

Speaker 2:
[23:53] You know, a little bit. And I have a really high tolerance for that. I'm not sure what it was. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1:
[24:00] Yeah. I feel like that is a lot of people's problem. I mean, she's just so good at making you be like this. What are you doing on camera?

Speaker 2:
[24:06] Yeah. It is amazing.

Speaker 1:
[24:08] Yeah. It's my, maybe my favorite ever.

Speaker 2:
[24:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:11] Okay. Well, we've avoided this experience long enough.

Speaker 2:
[24:14] There's actually a piece I forgot that's unrelated. It's just if you really don't like what I gave, but I can't find it.

Speaker 1:
[24:22] Okay. Well, let's see what this is. I'm pulling it out. It's a pen, a Pilot G2 Classic Pen and some paper.

Speaker 2:
[24:30] When do I get to explain stuff?

Speaker 1:
[24:32] Whenever you want.

Speaker 2:
[24:33] Okay. I'll wait.

Speaker 1:
[24:35] You wait hours. You call me later to explain.

Speaker 2:
[24:37] Hey.

Speaker 1:
[24:38] So about that gift. Okay. Okay. I'm opening it and it's a piece of paper.

Speaker 2:
[24:44] You're upset already.

Speaker 1:
[24:48] I just punched a hole in the wall. It's a, okay, there, it seems like there are two pieces of paper.

Speaker 2:
[24:53] Well, this is part of the experience.

Speaker 1:
[24:54] Okay. Okay. So should I, do you want to explain or should I?

Speaker 2:
[24:57] Why don't you try and then I'll.

Speaker 1:
[24:59] Okay. I'm going to try to explain what this is. Rachel has drawn a picture. In the middle, there's a stick figure of me, Bridger. In the left corner, there's a dog. In the upper left corner, there's a flag that says gay guy flag. In the upper right corner, there's a house that says sold. Then in the bottom right, could be a bag of groceries or a garbage can.

Speaker 3:
[25:23] Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[25:24] So we've only met in passing about twice.

Speaker 1:
[25:28] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[25:28] We talked briefly a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1:
[25:30] Yes. We were at?

Speaker 2:
[25:32] Someone's birthday.

Speaker 1:
[25:33] Someone's. Oh, Sam Shaker's birthday.

Speaker 2:
[25:34] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[25:35] Wonderful Sam.

Speaker 2:
[25:36] Wonderful Sam. And, you know, I'm thinking, huh, I don't know so much about this guy. Because I wanted to make you a painting, actually.

Speaker 1:
[25:44] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[25:45] But I was like, I don't really know what to paint him.

Speaker 1:
[25:47] Right.

Speaker 2:
[25:48] So I said, I'll start with a sketch. So I went with stuff I thought were true about you. Gay guy. You're a gay guy, right? Yes.

Speaker 1:
[25:58] I'm a gay guy. Yeah, I'm an absolute gay guy.

Speaker 2:
[26:00] I thought you might have a dog.

Speaker 1:
[26:02] Okay, good guess.

Speaker 2:
[26:02] So when you said you had a dog, I'm thinking, this is amazing. Then I remember you said you make some money from the podcast. So then I'm thinking-

Speaker 1:
[26:11] I was loudly going around the room. You guys wouldn't believe how much money I'm making on this thing.

Speaker 2:
[26:15] Then I'm thinking, I wonder if this guy owns a house. This is a house you bought. Then you're saying you do own a house.

Speaker 1:
[26:24] I do own a house, yes.

Speaker 2:
[26:25] Then I went on Instagram, your Instagram and saw that you take pictures of trash all the time.

Speaker 1:
[26:30] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[26:31] I thought it could be a fetish, something like this. So then I brought a pen and paper. So as I learn stuff about you, I can continue to add.

Speaker 1:
[26:40] I like this.

Speaker 2:
[26:41] If you learn something about me, you want to draw. I can add to this. At the end, you give me a gift.

Speaker 1:
[26:46] So as we're learning about each other, we'll just draw.

Speaker 2:
[26:49] Yeah, I haven't learned much about you.

Speaker 1:
[26:51] Right. I'm keeping my cards close to my chest.

Speaker 2:
[26:53] I'm just going to add one thing.

Speaker 1:
[26:57] I'm going to add one thing already. Let me just quickly. I'm a listener. I'm drawing something that's very close to Rachel's heart and it's a very good drawing. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[27:13] Should I show you what I drew?

Speaker 1:
[27:14] Yes, that's what you've drawn.

Speaker 2:
[27:15] Well, I added a bucket of Pebbles.

Speaker 3:
[27:18] Oh, fantastic!

Speaker 2:
[27:20] Because I think you'll have that for a long time.

Speaker 1:
[27:23] I drew a picture of Bart Simpson.

Speaker 2:
[27:25] Oh, wow. That's a good drawing.

Speaker 1:
[27:27] I would say a perfect drawing of Bart Simpson.

Speaker 2:
[27:28] Yeah, I really like that.

Speaker 1:
[27:31] Okay, I'm trying to think of other things I've already learned about you. You've been to Madonna Inn. I mean, this is an unfortunate test of my memory and listening skills. You've watched backyardigans. Uh-huh.

Speaker 2:
[27:43] That's a good, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:44] You've done pottery, painting and woodwork.

Speaker 2:
[27:47] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:48] How do you draw woodwork? That's the thing.

Speaker 2:
[27:50] A saw.

Speaker 1:
[27:50] A saw. Oh, fantastic. I'm going to draw. This is also a test of if I know what a saw looks like.

Speaker 2:
[27:57] It's a good motor skills test too.

Speaker 1:
[27:59] Yeah, look at this.

Speaker 2:
[28:00] Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1:
[28:00] That's a pretty good saw.

Speaker 2:
[28:02] It looks similar to Bart Simpson.

Speaker 3:
[28:04] It actually looks almost identical to Bart Simpson.

Speaker 1:
[28:09] I'm going to ask you about like in regards to, do you have a pet?

Speaker 2:
[28:13] No.

Speaker 1:
[28:14] No.

Speaker 2:
[28:14] I really want a dog.

Speaker 1:
[28:16] Right.

Speaker 2:
[28:16] I have a potential ready and I think it would change my life.

Speaker 1:
[28:19] What sort of dog would you like? A big, small?

Speaker 2:
[28:23] If I had unlimited resources and then I had a yard house, I think I would want like a medium to big size dog.

Speaker 1:
[28:33] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[28:35] Maybe like a black lab.

Speaker 1:
[28:36] Oh, beautiful.

Speaker 2:
[28:37] Gorgeous.

Speaker 1:
[28:38] Did you have a dog growing up?

Speaker 2:
[28:39] No.

Speaker 1:
[28:40] Never? Did you have any pets?

Speaker 2:
[28:42] We had a bird for under a year.

Speaker 1:
[28:44] Okay. Did it fly away?

Speaker 2:
[28:46] So my mom and I are walking through Washington Square Park and a parakeet lands on her head. How interesting. It's injured.

Speaker 1:
[28:58] Okay. Right.

Speaker 2:
[28:59] So she goes back to her work, which is close by and we get a box. We take the bird to the vet. The vet says like its wing is broken and it must have just escaped from someone's apartment. But there's sort of nothing. What do you do with a bird?

Speaker 1:
[29:14] And there's nothing you can do about a broken wing?

Speaker 2:
[29:16] I think they fixed the wing.

Speaker 1:
[29:18] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[29:19] I don't really know. Anyway, we took her home.

Speaker 1:
[29:22] Right.

Speaker 2:
[29:22] We had her in a cage. We'd have to let her out to fly. She would shit all over the apartment. She was so loud. I hated the bird.

Speaker 1:
[29:31] What was its name?

Speaker 2:
[29:32] We called her Treasure. Because she was a treasure to have around. She was a treasure. But ultimately, we just called her Birdie.

Speaker 1:
[29:43] Okay. Right. Right.

Speaker 2:
[29:46] I had insomnia as a kid. So I would sit up with the bird a lot and watch Kathy Griffin. Kathy Griffin.

Speaker 1:
[29:53] Kathy Griffin.

Speaker 2:
[29:56] My Life with the D-List or whatever.

Speaker 1:
[29:57] Yes. Wait, what did you think her name was?

Speaker 2:
[30:00] Kathy Griffith?

Speaker 1:
[30:02] Kathy Griffin.

Speaker 2:
[30:04] Kathy Griffin? One night we're watching it, TV together. Well, also it's like the bird is stupid. So you put a towel over its cage to indicate it's time to go to bed.

Speaker 1:
[30:18] Right, right.

Speaker 2:
[30:19] So I always put the towel over its cage, but there was something comforting about having a live thing next to me.

Speaker 1:
[30:25] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[30:25] Because I basically in part had insomnia because I thought someone needed to be awake in case someone was trying to break in.

Speaker 1:
[30:32] I mean, not the worst idea.

Speaker 2:
[30:34] Sure. But I took it upon myself.

Speaker 1:
[30:35] Yeah, keep your child awake.

Speaker 2:
[30:36] As a nine-year-old, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[30:37] To fend off burglars.

Speaker 2:
[30:38] Yeah. But so I liked having a bird with me because it felt like partner in crime.

Speaker 1:
[30:43] Right, of course.

Speaker 2:
[30:44] All to say we're watching Kathy Griffin, and all of a sudden I hear a huge thud in the cage.

Speaker 1:
[30:49] Oh no.

Speaker 2:
[30:50] And I don't bother. And I finally fall asleep and it had passed away.

Speaker 1:
[30:57] Kathy Griffin killed your bird.

Speaker 2:
[30:58] It was like big laugh. It had had a heart attack.

Speaker 1:
[31:06] It had a heart attack. How do you know that?

Speaker 2:
[31:08] That because we took it to the vet.

Speaker 1:
[31:10] Okay. This feels like a waste of time.

Speaker 2:
[31:12] Yeah. I think my mom was like, maybe not actually.

Speaker 1:
[31:15] She had a post-mortem on a bird.

Speaker 2:
[31:17] Right. She told me that it had a heart attack.

Speaker 1:
[31:20] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[31:21] And then we went out to my, we drove out to Long Island to my grandma's house to bury it in the yard.

Speaker 1:
[31:26] Oh, that's nice.

Speaker 2:
[31:27] And I hated the bird so much, but it really made me sad.

Speaker 1:
[31:30] Right.

Speaker 2:
[31:31] And it was around the same time that my great-grandpa was dying. So I think it made me realize that he was about-

Speaker 1:
[31:37] Oh, it was kind of your entry into that world.

Speaker 2:
[31:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:40] Right.

Speaker 2:
[31:40] So it was actually good because it was sort of like a-

Speaker 1:
[31:43] Yeah, I think that that is like-

Speaker 2:
[31:44] Tricycle of grief.

Speaker 1:
[31:45] One of the utilities of a pet for a kid, right?

Speaker 2:
[31:47] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:48] You haven't really thought about that before, but it's like, look what's coming.

Speaker 2:
[31:52] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] We had so many hamsters die.

Speaker 2:
[31:55] Really?

Speaker 1:
[31:55] But I guess I just have totally numb to the concept.

Speaker 2:
[31:58] Wow. Would you have one at a time or many?

Speaker 1:
[32:00] We would have like one or two at a time. And I don't know-

Speaker 2:
[32:04] Where did you grow up?

Speaker 1:
[32:05] In Utah. We had a lot of pets.

Speaker 2:
[32:07] Where in Utah?

Speaker 1:
[32:08] Outside of Salt Lake City, in the suburb of Salt Lake. Have you been?

Speaker 2:
[32:13] Yeah. I've been twice.

Speaker 1:
[32:15] What were you doing there? Stand up?

Speaker 2:
[32:16] One time? No. I think they would hate me there.

Speaker 1:
[32:19] No, I bet they would actually love you.

Speaker 2:
[32:21] Interesting. One time I went because I was on a, my uncle took me and my cousins to Yellowstone.

Speaker 1:
[32:31] Okay, sure.

Speaker 2:
[32:32] And on the way home, we stopped in Salt Lake because he wanted to see the church.

Speaker 1:
[32:37] Oh, right, right.

Speaker 2:
[32:38] He was fascinated by it.

Speaker 1:
[32:40] Kind of a landmark to see.

Speaker 2:
[32:41] Yeah. And then I went this past couple months ago because I was at Sundance.

Speaker 1:
[32:46] Oh, that's right. Always kind of trying to bring it back to some sort of promo.

Speaker 2:
[32:49] Well, you know, what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 3:
[32:52] Just can't stop working.

Speaker 1:
[32:54] Nope. So you were just in Park City this time.

Speaker 2:
[32:57] Yeah, but we did spend some time in Salt Lake.

Speaker 1:
[32:59] Okay. Where did you eat? Any good restaurants?

Speaker 2:
[33:02] I have to say the food was disgusting. People were like, oh my God, I got to go to this restaurant and like, What restaurant? This is a sushi place and the producers were like trying to take us out this nice meal. Like we were having a good time and it was really expensive and it was disgusting.

Speaker 1:
[33:21] Was the sushi place in Salt Lake?

Speaker 2:
[33:23] No, no, sorry, Park City.

Speaker 1:
[33:24] Oh, so okay. There is a really good sushi place in Salt Lake.

Speaker 2:
[33:26] Really? Well, I watched Salt Lake Real Housewives.

Speaker 1:
[33:30] Oh, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2:
[33:31] So I'm sure they've gone on the show because the food they eat looks pretty good.

Speaker 1:
[33:35] They go to some interesting places. They go to places that I think photograph kind of well.

Speaker 2:
[33:41] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[33:41] They're kind of a scene.

Speaker 2:
[33:43] Do you know anything about them?

Speaker 1:
[33:46] How so?

Speaker 2:
[33:47] I'm just going to draw something quickly.

Speaker 1:
[33:50] I will say I've FaceTimed with Brittany Bateman. No. A friend is a friend.

Speaker 2:
[33:57] Are you a friend with her?

Speaker 1:
[33:59] I'm friend of a friend of Brittany.

Speaker 2:
[34:00] I thought you said a friend is a friend. So I thought you were-

Speaker 1:
[34:03] A friend is a friend, Rachel, and they'll FaceTime you. No. A friend is a friend of hers.

Speaker 2:
[34:11] I see.

Speaker 1:
[34:12] And she said, would you FaceTime my friend? And so did Jared Osmond.

Speaker 2:
[34:16] No.

Speaker 3:
[34:17] What was he like?

Speaker 1:
[34:19] They were both perfectly nice actually.

Speaker 2:
[34:21] I can imagine.

Speaker 1:
[34:22] I mean, that's kind of the thing about Housewives is like, I think if you met any of them in person, you'd be like, oh, this is someone that's kind of playing.

Speaker 2:
[34:28] Well, I met Meredith on the street.

Speaker 3:
[34:30] Where?

Speaker 1:
[34:31] In New York? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[34:33] How was that?

Speaker 2:
[34:35] It was great. I had done something heinous that day.

Speaker 1:
[34:39] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[34:40] I had tried to steal a $800 pair of pants from a stores, which I did successfully.

Speaker 1:
[34:45] Oh, I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 2:
[34:46] But then I went back immediately and brought it back.

Speaker 1:
[34:49] Right.

Speaker 2:
[34:50] And just threw it inside. I was like, I'm so sorry I did this. It was like I had like a streak of kleptomania as a kid, and it is gone from my body now. And that was the final release. Because I was like, what am I doing?

Speaker 1:
[35:04] How did you steal them?

Speaker 2:
[35:06] Shove it in my pants.

Speaker 1:
[35:08] So you didn't like go in the dressing room and put them on and put on the pants?

Speaker 2:
[35:10] No, no, I did that.

Speaker 1:
[35:11] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[35:11] I shoved, or yeah. Well, they were these weird ones where it was actually too obvious when I had them on under my pants. So I did kind of like ball it up like, and then held a sweater over my, you know what I mean? Whatever. And I was just like, if they find out, like I had never stolen something that expensive before. And I was like, this is fucking insane. Like I'm not stealing food that I need. I'm stealing like designer pants, which I honestly don't have an issue with.

Speaker 1:
[35:37] I have zero issue with that.

Speaker 2:
[35:38] It was more just like, this could ruin my life.

Speaker 1:
[35:42] Right.

Speaker 2:
[35:43] Potentially.

Speaker 1:
[35:44] Or make headlines.

Speaker 2:
[35:45] Well, that's true too. I'm sort of a Winona Ryder.

Speaker 1:
[35:48] Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2:
[35:50] But anyway, I just freaked out, threw the pants in, and then immediately had a panic attack outside.

Speaker 1:
[35:56] Oh, of course.

Speaker 2:
[35:57] And just then Meredith Marks walked by with her husband. But I was like, Meredith! It like took me out of it.

Speaker 1:
[36:05] Right, what a cure.

Speaker 2:
[36:06] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[36:06] That's such a cure to have domain.

Speaker 2:
[36:10] And they were really nice. And then I posted these pictures of me with them and wrote an insane caption about us being in a threesome and like all this stuff. Cause Seth took the picture.

Speaker 1:
[36:21] You've got to be careful because you could end up in a threesome with this couple.

Speaker 2:
[36:24] I would love to.

Speaker 1:
[36:25] I mean, Seth is looking for it.

Speaker 2:
[36:26] I know. You can tell. He loves the idea. But they thought it was so funny and now they both follow me.

Speaker 1:
[36:31] Oh my God, that's great.

Speaker 2:
[36:32] But Meredith won't answer me.

Speaker 1:
[36:34] Oh, interesting. Kind of, that's a power move though to be like, I'm here but I'm not giving you anything.

Speaker 2:
[36:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:41] Maybe she's just not that active on socials like you are.

Speaker 2:
[36:45] She's quite active, but maybe she has someone managing it.

Speaker 1:
[36:48] Right.

Speaker 2:
[36:49] Which is the dream, of course.

Speaker 1:
[36:50] Yeah, that's like to have a middle man to be like, here's the thing, do this.

Speaker 2:
[36:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:54] Then occasionally check in just to make sure things aren't completely on fire.

Speaker 2:
[36:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:58] Wow. So, Meredith Marks' dead bird stealing.

Speaker 2:
[37:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:03] You just threw the pants back in there.

Speaker 2:
[37:05] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:06] What's the second biggest thing you've stolen? Can I spend some time drawing for a moment?

Speaker 2:
[37:11] I got banned from Urban Outfitters because I stole some. I probably stole stuff worth $200 in total.

Speaker 1:
[37:19] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[37:20] That's not so bad.

Speaker 1:
[37:22] That's so like you went multiple times.

Speaker 2:
[37:25] No, no. This was one go.

Speaker 1:
[37:27] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[37:28] And they caught me because again, I was shoving stuff. Actually, I was shoving stuff in my lunchbox. I was in high school and I had a lunchbox.

Speaker 1:
[37:36] Was it like a, did it have a design on it?

Speaker 2:
[37:39] No, it was very plain.

Speaker 1:
[37:40] Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2:
[37:41] It was kind of like fabric-y. Right. You've got to put the ice stuff in it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:47] Although those always kind of feel dirty to me.

Speaker 2:
[37:49] They're disgusting. Stuff spills out. I used to pack chips and then I wanted ketchup to dip the chips into. I love ketchup.

Speaker 1:
[37:56] Okay, wow.

Speaker 2:
[37:58] So maybe draw that.

Speaker 1:
[37:59] I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 2:
[38:01] And I would just put it in. I would get a piece of tin foil, squirt the ketchup in and then bunch up the tin foil, which would obviously always spill out into the lunchbox. But I was like, this is the only thing. Like I didn't have Tupperware.

Speaker 1:
[38:18] Right.

Speaker 2:
[38:18] We just had like plastic bags and tin foil.

Speaker 1:
[38:21] But you did have plastic bags. So you-

Speaker 2:
[38:23] Yeah, but then it would just be like this flat. Like I was like, if I can bunch up the tin foil enough, at least it'll be like a pile.

Speaker 1:
[38:30] A little cup.

Speaker 2:
[38:30] Yeah. Whereas in the bag, it just gets like a sheet.

Speaker 1:
[38:35] Ketchup is kind of one of the worst things you can have to sneak to, like the smell of old ketchup, the stickiness.

Speaker 2:
[38:41] Yeah, it was not good.

Speaker 1:
[38:43] But you did it over and over.

Speaker 2:
[38:44] Pretty much every day.

Speaker 1:
[38:46] And then they probably smelled you in urban outfitters.

Speaker 2:
[38:48] Definitely.

Speaker 1:
[38:49] And then they banned you? How does that work?

Speaker 2:
[38:51] They caught me, they took my picture, they're like, you can't come back, like your picture's being sent to all the stores.

Speaker 1:
[38:56] Wow.

Speaker 2:
[38:57] And then that one has since closed.

Speaker 1:
[38:59] Okay. I think a lot of them have since closed.

Speaker 2:
[39:01] For sure. But I gotta say, like some of their stuff.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] You could, if you went in there and went to the clearance rack, you could get some great, some great finds.

Speaker 2:
[39:08] Get a couple pair of BDG jeans.

Speaker 1:
[39:11] Right. As long as it's not like a novelty T-shirt, or some stupid thing like that, you could get some decent things in there. I wonder if they're all closing. Their time may be done.

Speaker 2:
[39:21] You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[39:22] I think we've, I mean, but you know, if Hot Topic has lasted this long, I feel like Urban Outfitters was like Millennials Hot Topic.

Speaker 2:
[39:28] That's another store that smelled crazy.

Speaker 1:
[39:30] Hot Topic?

Speaker 2:
[39:31] Yeah, I always found it to have a crazy smell.

Speaker 1:
[39:34] I wonder what that was. Was it all of the Funko Pops or?

Speaker 2:
[39:37] Yeah, it's like burning plastic.

Speaker 1:
[39:38] Right, so much plastic in there. That store is almost entirely plastic and then like flammable t-shirts.

Speaker 2:
[39:44] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:46] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[39:47] I really liked Happy Bunny. Are you familiar with Happy Bunny?

Speaker 1:
[39:50] No, I'm not familiar with Happy Bunny.

Speaker 2:
[39:51] I kind of want to start wearing Happy Bunny. It's a bunny that basically says like, go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1:
[39:57] Oh, sure. It's kind of got an edge.

Speaker 2:
[39:58] Yeah, I thought it was funny.

Speaker 1:
[39:59] It looks cute, but it has an edge.

Speaker 2:
[40:00] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[40:02] I'm trying to picture if I've, I bet I've seen that before. You have.

Speaker 2:
[40:05] It was iconic at a time. That was my brand.

Speaker 1:
[40:10] Okay, so you met Meredith Marks and Seth, took a picture. I'm trying to think of how I could draw one of those two, but I feel like, oh, do you know what I can draw to represent them? Something that I think is very key to their relationship, which I think is important. It's a Big Lots.

Speaker 2:
[40:29] Wait, why is that important to their relationship?

Speaker 1:
[40:30] Because he is the CFO, I think, of Big Lots.

Speaker 2:
[40:34] You're kidding me.

Speaker 1:
[40:35] He's one of the head honchos over at Big Lots.

Speaker 3:
[40:37] Holy shit.

Speaker 1:
[40:39] Of another business that's rapid to close.

Speaker 2:
[40:41] Yeah, genuinely. He's always like, I feel like his work stuff is always like fucked.

Speaker 1:
[40:45] It's always, he worked at overstock.com. I'm a former employee of overstock.com, but it was before his reign.

Speaker 2:
[40:53] What was your role there?

Speaker 1:
[40:54] I was a copywriter, which was a normal job.

Speaker 2:
[40:58] I could never get a copywriting job.

Speaker 1:
[41:00] Did you try?

Speaker 2:
[41:01] Yes, this is the thing, if I may.

Speaker 1:
[41:03] Please.

Speaker 2:
[41:04] It's like, you know, people were assistants at like, you know, an agency or publishing or copyright. Like I tried so hard to get the like normal jobs that people get when they're trying to break in. And I couldn't, like I couldn't even get that.

Speaker 1:
[41:23] Where do you think you went wrong?

Speaker 2:
[41:24] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[41:27] I feel like you're a confident person. You're smart.

Speaker 2:
[41:28] No, I am and now I do have a career, but I'm just like, I tried so hard to do it the normal way.

Speaker 1:
[41:34] Did you ever have like a part-time or like more menial type job?

Speaker 2:
[41:38] I was, I had like, I was a barista for many years. I was a pre-k like assistant teacher for many years. I did tutoring, but it was all kinds of stuff that was either like, you know, like customer front, you know, barista, whatever, or like education.

Speaker 1:
[41:54] Right.

Speaker 2:
[41:55] But those had nothing to do with the industry I was trying to get into.

Speaker 1:
[41:59] Yeah. I mean, those sort of jobs are kind of, I mean, like they're weirdly competitive to get like these horrible jobs.

Speaker 2:
[42:05] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:05] Jobs that are probably the hardest ones in the business.

Speaker 2:
[42:08] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:08] And the lowest pay.

Speaker 2:
[42:09] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[42:10] Because you basically have to like be an intern at UTA or something, or you know, like have like your uncle work somewhere.

Speaker 2:
[42:17] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[42:18] Even to be like a PA.

Speaker 2:
[42:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:20] Which I mean, I was a PA, but it was because I had interned at another show and-

Speaker 2:
[42:25] How did you get the internship?

Speaker 1:
[42:27] Truly sheer luck. It was at Letterman, at David Letterman.

Speaker 2:
[42:31] Whoa.

Speaker 1:
[42:31] And it was, I think I submitted twice. And I think the second time they were probably like, all of our interns are coming from New York. This person wants to come from Utah.

Speaker 2:
[42:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:41] And let him do it.

Speaker 2:
[42:41] Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[42:42] So it worked out. And then there was part of me that thinks that part of the reason I got the job was I kind of interviewed with the front desk person. And at the time I had like long red hair and later found out that she was like fully obsessed with Harry Potter in like looking at fan photos.

Speaker 2:
[43:03] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[43:04] And I like caught a look over her shoulder once of her like looking at like a Ronald Weasley thing.

Speaker 2:
[43:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:10] So it's like, oh, so this, I think this is the reason I got this job.

Speaker 2:
[43:14] Yeah, got it.

Speaker 1:
[43:16] This is all speculation, but I'm, I was like that, this cannot be a coincidence.

Speaker 2:
[43:20] Right. Certainly not.

Speaker 1:
[43:22] Wow. So God bless, you know.

Speaker 2:
[43:24] So you did have a little bit of an industry connect.

Speaker 1:
[43:26] I had, yeah, just by sheer luck. But otherwise, there's no chance I would have gotten into the business.

Speaker 2:
[43:36] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:36] And then Twitter helped because that was the other way you could get in without Harvard before.

Speaker 2:
[43:41] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:42] And now it's all kind of reverted back to whatever that was.

Speaker 2:
[43:45] Right.

Speaker 1:
[43:45] Which is a nightmare.

Speaker 2:
[43:46] Right.

Speaker 1:
[43:46] But you're probably lucky you didn't have to do any of those terrible jobs.

Speaker 2:
[43:49] I definitely am lucky in many ways. Right. Seems really hard.

Speaker 1:
[43:55] Have you ever been in a big lot?

Speaker 2:
[43:57] I don't think so. I don't know that we have those on the East Coast.

Speaker 1:
[44:02] Is it the same as like, I'm trying to think of like what a comp for big lots would be.

Speaker 2:
[44:08] It's like, what do they sell?

Speaker 1:
[44:09] Kind of everything.

Speaker 2:
[44:11] Right. It's like, is it like Dollar Tree?

Speaker 1:
[44:13] It's like an upgraded Dollar Tree. It's like if you went to Dollar Tree and everything was normally priced.

Speaker 2:
[44:18] Yeah. Perfect.

Speaker 1:
[44:19] So kind of a dream store for anyone.

Speaker 2:
[44:22] I think my mom maybe goes to big lots or she goes to odd jobs.

Speaker 1:
[44:28] Oh, wait.

Speaker 2:
[44:28] Is that a store?

Speaker 1:
[44:30] As a kid, we would go somewhere called Jobbers Odd Lot.

Speaker 3:
[44:35] You're kidding me.

Speaker 1:
[44:37] Which was kind of that sort of store.

Speaker 2:
[44:38] Jobbers Odd Lot? What do you mean?

Speaker 1:
[44:43] I have no idea what the business model was. I just remember I was so young. I just remember it being weirdly dark and they just had all sorts of junk.

Speaker 2:
[44:52] Jobbers Odd Lot.

Speaker 1:
[44:54] Isn't that a great name for a business? Jobbers Odd Lot. And your mom would go to Odd Jobs?

Speaker 2:
[44:58] Yeah, but now I'm just like, am I just pulling at things I've heard? Because odd job is a phrase, right?

Speaker 1:
[45:06] Odd job. Yeah, you take odd jobs.

Speaker 2:
[45:08] I might just be saying that.

Speaker 1:
[45:09] And is there a-

Speaker 2:
[45:10] Because we were just talking about odd jobs.

Speaker 1:
[45:11] I think there might be a James Bond villain named Odd Job. Is that right?

Speaker 2:
[45:14] That I know nothing about.

Speaker 1:
[45:17] If I know that, then that's good for me. Yeah. There is. Wow. I should go on Jeopardy. This is proof.

Speaker 2:
[45:24] You would be great on Jeopardy.

Speaker 1:
[45:25] Great to just kind of be the third place.

Speaker 2:
[45:28] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[45:28] The other two people get to win.

Speaker 2:
[45:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[45:30] And they have to fill one of those things.

Speaker 2:
[45:31] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[45:32] I would love to go on Jeopardy, even if I flopped. I think you-

Speaker 2:
[45:35] I mean, yeah, just sounds fun. I like doing like trivia.

Speaker 1:
[45:39] Right.

Speaker 2:
[45:40] Which Je- I've never really watched it.

Speaker 1:
[45:43] Okay. I bet you would enjoy it. Everyone likes Jeopardy. I like trivia, as long as it's things that don't require any level of actual education or intelligence.

Speaker 2:
[45:53] Yeah. Things just come to me when they ask questions. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[45:58] Just channeled to you?

Speaker 2:
[45:59] Yeah. It just- it is like-

Speaker 1:
[46:01] Do you have a category that you're good with?

Speaker 2:
[46:03] Nope. I think I'm okay at many.

Speaker 1:
[46:07] Okay. That's- I think that's kind of the key then.

Speaker 2:
[46:10] Yeah. And then you have to bring people, you're like, oh, this guy is obsessed with World War II, oh, this guy is obsessed with the movies.

Speaker 1:
[46:16] Right.

Speaker 2:
[46:17] But I cover everything.

Speaker 1:
[46:19] Right. So you're kind of covering bases for people when the World War II knowledge-

Speaker 2:
[46:23] I'm the pinch hitter for trivia.

Speaker 1:
[46:26] I basically can only do like pop culture stuff and entertainment. And then weird bits of history here and there.

Speaker 2:
[46:33] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[46:33] But otherwise, when those other categories are being- I'm very quiet.

Speaker 2:
[46:37] Really?

Speaker 1:
[46:38] Just waiting for the rest of the team to pick up.

Speaker 2:
[46:39] What about like- I do this quiz on the Financial Times. Okay. You know about this?

Speaker 1:
[46:44] No. This is- seems very appealing to me, actually.

Speaker 2:
[46:47] It's a British newspaper.

Speaker 1:
[46:48] Okay, yes.

Speaker 2:
[46:49] But they- I don't care about the newspaper. It's just the quiz.

Speaker 1:
[46:52] Right.

Speaker 2:
[46:52] But they ask you questions and then you have to figure out the link.

Speaker 1:
[46:56] Oh, so it's kind of like-

Speaker 2:
[46:58] I'm addicted to that.

Speaker 1:
[47:00] Right. So how many questions do they ask you?

Speaker 2:
[47:02] Ten.

Speaker 1:
[47:03] Ten?

Speaker 2:
[47:03] Yeah. And it's like trivia questions.

Speaker 1:
[47:06] Right.

Speaker 2:
[47:06] But then what helps is figuring out the link.

Speaker 1:
[47:09] Oh, this sounds great.

Speaker 2:
[47:10] It's so fun.

Speaker 1:
[47:12] Because I play a lot of Connections, the New York Times one.

Speaker 2:
[47:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:16] And this seems like an almost upgraded version of that or something.

Speaker 2:
[47:19] Due to the trivia.

Speaker 1:
[47:20] Because I frequently disagree with the Connections. I'm pretty good at it, but sometimes I'm like, sorry, some of these things could have worked in two different categories and you failed.

Speaker 2:
[47:30] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:31] That's not tricking someone that's failing at your job.

Speaker 2:
[47:33] Right.

Speaker 1:
[47:33] And they need to know that.

Speaker 2:
[47:34] I kind of stopped doing that. I got really obsessed with it as a way to ward off dementia.

Speaker 1:
[47:39] Oh yeah. That's every time I'm like, this is my vitamin for the day.

Speaker 2:
[47:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:43] And there's no chance it's actually helping. It's doing nothing for me.

Speaker 2:
[47:47] Yeah, probably not.

Speaker 1:
[47:48] If anything, I'm getting worse brain-wise.

Speaker 2:
[47:50] It's definitely possible.

Speaker 1:
[47:51] Okay. Let me see if I can draw another thing here. I'm going to draw.

Speaker 2:
[47:57] I'll draw one too. I drew one earlier as well.

Speaker 1:
[48:02] This is a bad picture and it's not exactly. There's no chance you'll know what this is.

Speaker 2:
[48:12] Let's see.

Speaker 1:
[48:13] That little triangle in the middle.

Speaker 2:
[48:17] Trivial Pursuits.

Speaker 1:
[48:19] Yes. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[48:19] Well, I could read your writing just barely.

Speaker 1:
[48:22] God bless. Now, what have you drawn for me?

Speaker 2:
[48:24] I added a dead hamster.

Speaker 1:
[48:26] Oh, great.

Speaker 2:
[48:27] And Harry Potter.

Speaker 1:
[48:31] Well, yours is filling up. The one you're doing for me is filling up, but I still feel like I'm not really. Do you know what else I'm going to do right here?

Speaker 2:
[48:39] Oh, dead bird. That's a great drawing.

Speaker 1:
[48:40] It's a gorgeous drawing.

Speaker 2:
[48:42] You know what? We should turn these into flash tattoo.

Speaker 1:
[48:46] Do you know what about flash tattoos, which I found very disappointing? What? A friend had a flash tattoo artist at her birthday and had advertised this. I thought, oh, this will be so much fun thinking, oh, it's just like temporary tattoos. Then I got there and realized, oh, it's real. I can't commit to this.

Speaker 2:
[49:04] Yeah. Do you have any?

Speaker 1:
[49:05] No, I think I'm going to get one though.

Speaker 2:
[49:06] Really?

Speaker 1:
[49:07] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[49:08] Is it a secret?

Speaker 1:
[49:09] No, it's a picture of my old dog. But I just have been, I procrastinate everything. But I think I'm very close at this point.

Speaker 2:
[49:18] So you thought flash tattoo was like, it's a tattoo that's gone in a flash.

Speaker 1:
[49:22] Like it's worthless. No, I just thought, you know, I figured it was like a new, better version of temporary tattoos, you know, better technology or something.

Speaker 2:
[49:33] No, I've given tattoos at two parties.

Speaker 1:
[49:36] You've given them?

Speaker 2:
[49:37] Here's another skill.

Speaker 1:
[49:38] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[49:38] Which by the way, it's like not, well, I guess it's a bit of a skill. I mean, it's a bit cringe to show up to a party with a tattoo kit. And it's stick and poke.

Speaker 1:
[49:49] Right.

Speaker 2:
[49:50] So I've probably given like 20 tattoos in my life.

Speaker 1:
[49:53] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[49:55] But I'm not that good at it. So people will ask for things that I'm like, I can't.

Speaker 1:
[50:00] But it's kind of not your fault.

Speaker 2:
[50:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:03] I mean, clearly-

Speaker 2:
[50:03] Well, I'm very clear. I'm like, look, I'm sterilizing everything, so you don't have to worry about health.

Speaker 1:
[50:08] Right.

Speaker 2:
[50:09] But I can't do much more than that. Right. I can do circle, star, heart. And I gave one to my friend on her wrist and it looks horrible and I think she hates it.

Speaker 1:
[50:22] Again, absolutely her fault.

Speaker 2:
[50:24] Well, I was a little like, I don't really know what to tell you. Like I did tell you that this was not going to end well.

Speaker 1:
[50:30] Even if I went to a party and there was like a pretty professional person, I wouldn't expect to get the best tattoo.

Speaker 2:
[50:34] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:35] I think this is a tattoo I've decided to get at a party. Right. Just on a whim.

Speaker 2:
[50:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:40] So the fact that anyone would expect you to do anything better than the absolute worst.

Speaker 2:
[50:45] I appreciate that. For free by the way.

Speaker 1:
[50:47] For free. Yeah. See, this was my other problem with this flash tattoo at the party. I have to pay for it?

Speaker 2:
[50:51] Yeah. That's crazy. Your friend should have paid for that.

Speaker 1:
[50:54] Yeah. I'm not coming to your birthday to pay and she was probably skimming a little off the top. It's probably her little business.

Speaker 2:
[51:00] Yeah. I'm sure. Was it a big birthday? Like 40 or whatever?

Speaker 1:
[51:03] It was a big birthday.

Speaker 2:
[51:04] Because I've only heard of it really at weddings.

Speaker 1:
[51:06] Oh, at weddings?

Speaker 2:
[51:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:07] Okay. Oh, wow. Have you ever gotten one?

Speaker 2:
[51:11] I haven't gotten a flash tattoo at an event, but I have a bunch of tattoos.

Speaker 1:
[51:14] Oh, right. Yeah. I just need to commit. I feel like why not?

Speaker 2:
[51:19] It's fun. But also then sometimes I'm like, I wish I had none.

Speaker 1:
[51:23] Really?

Speaker 2:
[51:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:25] Why?

Speaker 2:
[51:26] There are a couple I regret.

Speaker 1:
[51:28] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[51:29] Then sometimes I'm like, oh, I'd like to not, like I've just like to not have them.

Speaker 1:
[51:34] Right. Just not to be a person without tattoos.

Speaker 2:
[51:36] Yeah. Because you do have them. Once you have them, you have them. And I have some friends who are getting them like laser removed, but it sounds so painful.

Speaker 1:
[51:45] I'm sure you're-

Speaker 2:
[51:46] And really expensive.

Speaker 1:
[51:47] Body is just being torched.

Speaker 2:
[51:49] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:50] And it's kind of not that effective, right?

Speaker 2:
[51:53] No, it's still like, it's just a different tattoo.

Speaker 1:
[51:56] Now you just have a worse tattoo.

Speaker 2:
[51:58] Yeah. But I have one that I got like really late one night with this guy who was like so weird, whatever. And it's like basically like spreading in my body. I mean, it's safe, I think, but it looks like shit.

Speaker 1:
[52:12] Oh, that sucks.

Speaker 2:
[52:13] And it was like a very- Yeah, it looks so bad.

Speaker 1:
[52:16] What was, what does it have?

Speaker 2:
[52:18] It's of this like, when I was a pre-k assistant teacher, I was like in charge of nap time.

Speaker 1:
[52:25] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[52:26] And a lot of the kids who didn't want to sleep, I would draw them the squiggle that they could color in.

Speaker 1:
[52:32] Okay, okay.

Speaker 2:
[52:33] And it became like, I was doing like 20 squiggles a day, but I like, it was like, I loved doing it for them. So I made a squiggle for myself and got it tattooed.

Speaker 1:
[52:43] Well, that's kind of the best version of a tattoo to fall apart.

Speaker 2:
[52:46] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[52:47] I mean, if it was kind of nothing before, it would just be a different thing.

Speaker 2:
[52:51] Yeah. Now it's, yeah, it's something else.

Speaker 1:
[52:54] I'm going to draw a classic tattoo. I drew something that looks like a squiggle and isn't, which I'll have to explain here.

Speaker 2:
[53:03] I can't wait to learn about that.

Speaker 1:
[53:05] Right now I'm drawing a tattoo.

Speaker 2:
[53:07] I know what you're doing. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[53:09] Should I put a name in the middle? Yeah. Let's see here. Let's just keep on the theme.

Speaker 2:
[53:16] Maybe that's the name of the person I'll marry.

Speaker 1:
[53:20] Maybe.

Speaker 2:
[53:22] Seth Marks. Seth Marks.

Speaker 1:
[53:25] Now see this squiggle right here was an attempt. This would have required a lot of shading and texture. It was a rock for the Madonna Inn.

Speaker 2:
[53:33] Nice.

Speaker 1:
[53:33] But ultimately it kind of works as both now, as a squiggle and a rock.

Speaker 2:
[53:36] Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1:
[53:37] So that's good.

Speaker 2:
[53:38] That's really good.

Speaker 1:
[53:39] Did you say you have another for me? No, no. I'm hinting.

Speaker 2:
[53:45] Do you want something?

Speaker 1:
[53:47] No, I feel like I need to do one more before we move on to the game. And I just am. Let's see here. Thinking, we're thinking.

Speaker 2:
[53:56] Do you have any questions for me?

Speaker 1:
[53:58] Let's see here. I'm trying to think of the things you had already drawn on mine. I know you're from New York. I know you hate animation.

Speaker 2:
[54:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:12] Let's see. How often do you get your hair cut?

Speaker 2:
[54:16] You know, I'm growing it out.

Speaker 1:
[54:17] You are.

Speaker 2:
[54:18] But for many years, I had really short hair.

Speaker 1:
[54:21] What's the plan for length?

Speaker 2:
[54:23] As long as I can.

Speaker 1:
[54:26] Like would you like ankle length?

Speaker 2:
[54:28] No, no. Like here.

Speaker 1:
[54:29] Oh, that's a good look.

Speaker 2:
[54:30] I mean, like, you know, Kate Burlant's hair is incredible.

Speaker 1:
[54:34] She's got the best hair.

Speaker 2:
[54:35] She has the best hair.

Speaker 1:
[54:36] I don't think it's really fair to other people. Because it just feels effortless.

Speaker 2:
[54:40] It's unreal. But like that length. I had long hair for a while. Then I just chopped it and buzzed it. And then I was buzzing it. Then I had pixies.

Speaker 1:
[54:49] You were buzzing it?

Speaker 2:
[54:50] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:50] That sounds so nice.

Speaker 2:
[54:51] It was fun.

Speaker 1:
[54:52] So free.

Speaker 2:
[54:53] But there was a point where I was going to the lesbian barber once every six weeks spending. That's where all of my money went for about a year.

Speaker 1:
[55:03] How much were they charging for a buzz?

Speaker 2:
[55:05] Well, I was doing a little more than a buzz at that point.

Speaker 1:
[55:08] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[55:08] I had the buzz sides with the tussle top.

Speaker 1:
[55:14] Right.

Speaker 2:
[55:16] Every time I would either bring in a picture of Timothee Chalamet or Justin Bieber, and they were like, we can't do this for you. But then I would just pay for whatever they suggested.

Speaker 1:
[55:25] How much were you paying?

Speaker 2:
[55:27] I want to say it was like 120.

Speaker 1:
[55:30] That's tough to hear.

Speaker 2:
[55:31] Lesbian barber.

Speaker 1:
[55:32] This is an indictment of lesbians everywhere. Don't trust a lesbian barber.

Speaker 2:
[55:36] No.

Speaker 1:
[55:37] Well, this is a goal for you.

Speaker 2:
[55:39] I love that.

Speaker 1:
[55:40] I feel like that would be a good look for you.

Speaker 2:
[55:42] Yeah. Wait, can I see, did you add bangs?

Speaker 1:
[55:45] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[55:45] So you think I should get bangs?

Speaker 1:
[55:47] Well, I feel like it'll be more like, not bangs, it'll just be so long that it'll be in a fun everywhere.

Speaker 2:
[55:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:55] Where sometimes it's in your face, sometimes it's not, you're flinging it. Yeah. Could you do bangs?

Speaker 2:
[56:03] You mean, because of the curly hair?

Speaker 1:
[56:04] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[56:05] You can, but not I've, I mean, like I have like this, you know.

Speaker 1:
[56:09] That's a good curly bang.

Speaker 2:
[56:10] But sometimes it'll just.

Speaker 1:
[56:12] Right. I bet it's a nightmare.

Speaker 2:
[56:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[56:15] I guess you feel really committed to it.

Speaker 2:
[56:16] I've had like a, you know, as they call the Jew furrow.

Speaker 1:
[56:19] Oh, sure, sure.

Speaker 2:
[56:20] I had that for a long time.

Speaker 1:
[56:21] Right. But curly hair is tricky.

Speaker 2:
[56:24] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[56:25] It requires a lot of thought and effort.

Speaker 2:
[56:28] Certainly.

Speaker 1:
[56:29] Well, I've drawn this for you. You've drawn for me. I think we should play a game.

Speaker 2:
[56:33] Great.

Speaker 1:
[56:34] We're going to play a game called Gift or a Curse. I need a number between 1 and 10 from you.

Speaker 2:
[56:38] Seven. Everyone probably chooses seven.

Speaker 1:
[56:42] Okay. I have to do some light calculating to get our game pieces. So right now you can promote, you can recommend, do whatever you want.

Speaker 2:
[56:50] So as I mentioned earlier, I am on Jury Duty Season 2. All episodes are now streaming. How fabulous. Sometimes I do stand up, et cetera. I could do Flash Tattoo.

Speaker 1:
[57:03] Yeah. You're online.

Speaker 2:
[57:04] I'm online for sure.

Speaker 1:
[57:08] What's this movie you're in? Is that out yet?

Speaker 2:
[57:10] It is a pilot.

Speaker 1:
[57:12] Oh, it's a pilot.

Speaker 2:
[57:13] It's an indie pilot.

Speaker 1:
[57:14] This is an interesting new world we're entering, isn't it?

Speaker 2:
[57:16] Yes. And it's directed by Nicole Holofsson. Oh, fantastic. It's kind of a legend produced by Barry Jenkins.

Speaker 1:
[57:23] Okay. So this is a real thing.

Speaker 2:
[57:25] Well, we'll see. I would love for it to be.

Speaker 1:
[57:28] I mean, even if it doesn't become a show, I bet it's good.

Speaker 2:
[57:30] It's good. I'm really proud of it, but it's not up to me.

Speaker 1:
[57:34] Right. It's kind of not up to anyone at this point.

Speaker 2:
[57:37] Certainly not.

Speaker 1:
[57:38] It's just pure chance that anything gets made. And I think that that's good.

Speaker 2:
[57:42] I think it's for the best.

Speaker 1:
[57:43] No one has any control.

Speaker 2:
[57:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[57:45] Okay. Oh, I want to recommend, I bet I've already, I went to see Rat Boys last night, our friends the Rat Boys here in LA, and they're a wonderful band and I just want to keep recommending them. I just adore them. I think might be the second recommendation of them in a row and I don't care. And is there anything I'm watching on TV? No. Watching Homicide New York, then I thought, no.

Speaker 2:
[58:08] Don't know what that is.

Speaker 1:
[58:09] Just about murder. And then I was like, yeah, of course the person got killed because the other person's bad.

Speaker 2:
[58:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:15] There's no mystery.

Speaker 2:
[58:16] Right.

Speaker 1:
[58:17] Okay. This is how we play Gift or a Curse. I'm going to name three things. You'll tell me if they are a Gift or a Curse and why.

Speaker 2:
[58:24] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[58:25] And then I'll tell you if you're right or wrong.

Speaker 2:
[58:26] Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:
[58:27] There are correct answers.

Speaker 2:
[58:28] Cool.

Speaker 1:
[58:28] All right. This first one is from a listener named William. Gift or a Curse, gas station security height sticker next to the door. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[58:37] Well, oh my God. I guess, well, ultimately it's a curse.

Speaker 1:
[58:45] Why?

Speaker 2:
[58:46] One, you're reminded of your own height. Two, obviously it's like surveillance state vibes.

Speaker 1:
[58:51] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[58:52] Three, I think if people want to lie about their, like if you're on a second date and you're going to the gas station and the guy gets out of the car, walks in, I think it's his prerogative to lie about his height and I don't think it's fair for the gas station to out him.

Speaker 1:
[59:06] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[59:07] So cursed.

Speaker 1:
[59:09] Wrong.

Speaker 2:
[59:10] Yeah, I figured. Why?

Speaker 1:
[59:12] I feel like that's added value to the gas station. Where else do you get a free measurement? Yeah, the only other place is you have to go to the doctor's office. They should have a scale there too, if you go the way yourself. I truly have no idea of where else I would learn how, maybe there's a chance I could ruin other things, late in life inch. But you know, it's a fun little thing, novelty. It's kind of got almost a carnival or fair vibe of like, guess your height sort of thing.

Speaker 2:
[59:38] That's fun.

Speaker 1:
[59:39] And I think that the other side of the coin is finding out that the man you're dating is lying to you about his height. And then you're like, okay, this is the last time I will cut him off and he'll never know why.

Speaker 2:
[59:50] Right. It's a gift for the non-liar.

Speaker 1:
[59:53] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:
[59:54] Yeah. Okay. All right.

Speaker 1:
[59:55] The second one is from a listener named Kristen. A gift or a curse season passes.

Speaker 2:
[60:00] Curse.

Speaker 1:
[60:00] Why?

Speaker 2:
[60:02] Because then you have to go. It's like buying a metro card and you don't use it enough. I mean, I guess that's not a thing anymore. But it's like, I would always be like, I shouldn't walk. I should take the train. I have to use this by the end of the week, whatever. And it's like, well, I don't want to go to Universal Studios, but like I have to because I have a season pass. I understand there are perks to it, but I think it's more of a burden.

Speaker 1:
[60:27] Correct. Curse. No, I don't want to commit to that.

Speaker 2:
[60:31] Right.

Speaker 1:
[60:31] I don't want, I feel like it's a thing where they don't believe in people changing.

Speaker 2:
[60:37] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:38] You know, I buy it. What if I become a different person? I don't want to go to Disney.

Speaker 2:
[60:41] Right, right, right, right.

Speaker 1:
[60:43] And truly the pressure of getting your value.

Speaker 2:
[60:46] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:46] No, thank you.

Speaker 2:
[60:47] No.

Speaker 1:
[60:47] That ruins the entire experience for me.

Speaker 2:
[60:49] I completely agree.

Speaker 1:
[60:50] You're a prisoner.

Speaker 2:
[60:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:51] Until the pass is over.

Speaker 2:
[60:53] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:53] And also you might get one of those annoying bumper stickers.

Speaker 2:
[60:56] Don't get me started.

Speaker 1:
[61:00] This final one is from Alex. Gift or a curse? Putting new bottles of condiments in the fridge without opening them first.

Speaker 2:
[61:11] I wish I could. I mean, that's a curse. I should have said the first one was a gift because I was on the fence about it, but all three are curses. That is such a dick move. Don't you think? It's like then whoever opens it has to open it. And it's like when you're in the shower and you put a new shampoo thing in and then now you have a paper thing in the shower with you. Like it's just like, why? I wish that they didn't sell it with the paper.

Speaker 1:
[61:39] You're against government regulation.

Speaker 2:
[61:40] Yes. Is that what it is?

Speaker 1:
[61:42] I'm sure.

Speaker 2:
[61:43] To keep it clean?

Speaker 1:
[61:44] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[61:45] Well, everything's still, you know, what's the word? Uh, it's not giving me a lot of hints for the word.

Speaker 1:
[61:56] I could truly guess any word. The thing, uh, I don't know. We'll start with A and I'll just go to the end of the dictionary. Yeah, that's true. No, you're, you're wrong here. This, I think this is a gift. I actually have never, with condiments in the fridge, I've never considered, until I'm going to use them, I want them totally sealed. I feel like you're, like, setting, you're lighting a fuse on the expiration.

Speaker 2:
[62:24] Use it the first time. The first time you use it, you take it off.

Speaker 1:
[62:28] But it seems like this person's like, you get home from the store, you have all of your condiments on the counter, you're taking off all the things then putting them in the fridge?

Speaker 2:
[62:35] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[62:36] Absolutely not. Is that a real thing people do?

Speaker 2:
[62:38] I will do that. I hate, it pisses me off.

Speaker 3:
[62:42] Oh, I hate the sound of this.

Speaker 1:
[62:44] I agree with the shower thing, because that's not going to expire, and we don't want the thing in the shower.

Speaker 2:
[62:48] No.

Speaker 1:
[62:49] Those things take usually three to four weeks to get out of the shower once they've been.

Speaker 2:
[62:53] Where do you put it? On the wall?

Speaker 1:
[62:55] I have like a little ledge that I put the soap on it and then the thing sits next to it for ages.

Speaker 2:
[62:59] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[63:01] But with the condiments, I put the mustard in there until it's time to go on the sandwich.

Speaker 2:
[63:06] Perfect.

Speaker 1:
[63:07] Totally sealed.

Speaker 2:
[63:08] I love that.

Speaker 1:
[63:10] It's a gift. So you got one right.

Speaker 2:
[63:13] And I said they were all curses. It's a horrible thing to say.

Speaker 3:
[63:16] Negative attitude.

Speaker 1:
[63:18] All right. This is the final segment of the podcast. We're going to answer a listener question. People are writing into I Said No Gifts at gmail.com. I don't know why I paused there, like I was going to say Yahoo or something. Will you help me answer a question?

Speaker 2:
[63:34] Of course.

Speaker 1:
[63:35] Okay. Let's see here. I hate when they don't address the guest. It just says Hi Bridger, which is just thoughtless. It says, I need help choosing a going away gift for my sister who is moving to Alaska in a few weeks. She will be working in the mental health field with AmeriCorps. She has to pack light so the gift can't be bulky. She likes goth fashion, Instagram, and gummy worms. Thanks. That's from Natalie in Baltimore. We found someone who likes Instagram.

Speaker 3:
[64:06] So, that's.

Speaker 1:
[64:08] Let's start the list.

Speaker 2:
[64:09] Goth fashion obviously get happy bunny shirt. That is goth.

Speaker 1:
[64:13] It's a very hot topic. That's very. Mom, you can't tell me what to do.

Speaker 2:
[64:16] Yeah. She likes Instagram. What is on Instagram? Like, so just bring your phone.

Speaker 1:
[64:23] What do you get from somebody who loves Instagram merch? Do they sell merch? Can you imagine?

Speaker 2:
[64:29] Maybe there's like a special like, because Alaska, I imagine, is quite beautiful when the sun is out. Maybe like a special like camera.

Speaker 1:
[64:37] Oh, one of those little lenses you can put on the phone.

Speaker 2:
[64:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:39] Really take it to the next level.

Speaker 2:
[64:41] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:41] That's a genuinely good gift idea. That doesn't happen on this podcast very often.

Speaker 2:
[64:47] Oh, no. I really.

Speaker 1:
[64:48] Wow.

Speaker 2:
[64:48] I'm a great gift giver.

Speaker 1:
[64:49] I've kind of wanted. Yeah, of course. I've wanted one of those. But, you know, it's a hard thing to commit to.

Speaker 2:
[64:54] Yeah. I mean, if I saw you putting that on, I'd be like, Jesus Christ, yeah. But in Alaska, mental health facility.

Speaker 1:
[65:02] Yeah, in Alaska. And I think there's probably a lot of mental health issues in Alaska.

Speaker 2:
[65:07] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[65:08] That's a place where it can get very dark and lonely, I'm sure.

Speaker 2:
[65:13] You should get her a vitamin, like one of those lights.

Speaker 1:
[65:16] Oh, yeah. Right. UV light.

Speaker 2:
[65:19] Yeah, I don't know if it works.

Speaker 1:
[65:20] Sunshine light or whatever.

Speaker 2:
[65:21] Yeah, fake sun.

Speaker 1:
[65:22] I think it probably works in the fact that you're saying, I'm doing this for myself.

Speaker 2:
[65:25] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[65:25] And then just placebo.

Speaker 2:
[65:27] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[65:27] And gummy worms. You know what I was thinking about actually recently? Have you ever had those little bright crawler eggs?

Speaker 2:
[65:34] I know what you're talking about, but no.

Speaker 1:
[65:36] Did they still? I wonder if they still sell those. That was the kind of the best version of a sour gummy candy. Because it wasn't a full worm.

Speaker 2:
[65:43] It was an egg.

Speaker 1:
[65:44] And had like two textures.

Speaker 2:
[65:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[65:46] If you can find some of those.

Speaker 2:
[65:47] Did it have goo inside?

Speaker 1:
[65:48] It had like gummy worm.

Speaker 2:
[65:50] Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1:
[65:51] So it wasn't like slimy. They were like a little sour. Ellis is saying yes.

Speaker 2:
[65:57] Yeah, the trolley, sour, bright eggs. They might have rebranded them slightly.

Speaker 1:
[66:01] Oh, I love those things.

Speaker 2:
[66:02] But it looks like it's still, you can get them on, we can order them on DoorDash right now. Let's go.

Speaker 3:
[66:06] Let's get them over.

Speaker 1:
[66:08] Have you had those Ellis?

Speaker 2:
[66:09] No, but I love sour things. I'm obsessed with all things sour.

Speaker 1:
[66:12] People have got to get into these things. Those kind of were my diet through seventh and eighth grade. Just eating gummy things.

Speaker 2:
[66:19] Mine was cookie.

Speaker 1:
[66:21] See, we can really connect here.

Speaker 2:
[66:23] I had one big cookie for lunch every day.

Speaker 1:
[66:26] I had, I think, four small cookies for lunch every day because my mom, I think, would give us like $3 for lunch or something. And I wanted to save some of the money to buy video games. So I would buy cookies and milk to eat for lunch.

Speaker 3:
[66:38] Yay, yay, yay.

Speaker 1:
[66:39] Which is probably why I'm the height I am.

Speaker 2:
[66:42] Yeah, for sure. Definitely.

Speaker 1:
[66:44] I'm sure there were so many things working against me.

Speaker 2:
[66:46] You know, I'm quite short too.

Speaker 1:
[66:47] We found a real commonality. Yeah, this is kind of a scientific short. I'm going to draw you one final thing.

Speaker 2:
[66:58] Oops. Do you think you'll frame this? I meant to bring a frame.

Speaker 1:
[67:01] Maybe I will frame it actually. I can put this in the studio.

Speaker 2:
[67:04] I'm just going to sign it.

Speaker 1:
[67:08] I'm going to draw.

Speaker 2:
[67:09] Rachel Kaly. Is there anything that you guys haven't mentioned that you've drawn? I just want to make sure that the listener gets a picture of... Not me, I just added short.

Speaker 1:
[67:22] I drew a... Well, this is also very strange what just happened. I drew you a cookie. A chocolate chip cookie. And then I thought, well, I should draw another to kind of indicate that it's a cookie, but with a bite out of it.

Speaker 2:
[67:32] And now it looks like Bart Simpson.

Speaker 1:
[67:33] And then it looks like Bart Simpson. Look at that.

Speaker 2:
[67:36] That's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[67:38] Now it looks like Bart Simpson with acne. Well, that's... And that's totally fine. That's how art works.

Speaker 2:
[67:46] Great. I love it.

Speaker 1:
[67:48] Well, I think we answered the question perfectly. Good luck in Alaska, sister. Go save everyone in Alaska. We both have a gift.

Speaker 2:
[67:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[67:59] I don't know that I've ever given a guest on this podcast a gift, which is... What does that say about me?

Speaker 2:
[68:03] Well, that's a great question. And I did force your hand.

Speaker 1:
[68:07] You did kind of force my hand.

Speaker 2:
[68:08] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[68:08] I had no choice. But I'll get this frame, you won't put it in the studio or something.

Speaker 2:
[68:12] Oh my God, I can't wait.

Speaker 1:
[68:14] I've had such a lovely time with you.

Speaker 2:
[68:16] And me too.

Speaker 1:
[68:17] Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2:
[68:18] Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:
[68:19] Listener, the podcast is over. I'm only sweating lightly. You're probably sweating like crazy because you've been listening to this podcast. So now you've got to go do something else. Move on. I love you. Goodbye. I Said No Gifts is an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Ellis Nelson, and our episodes are beautifully mixed by Ben Tolade. The theme song is by miracle worker, Amy Mann. And we couldn't do it without our booker, Patrick Cotner. You must follow the show on Instagram at I Said No Gifts. That's where you're going to see pictures of all these wonderful gifts I'm getting. And don't you want to see the gifts?