transcript
Speaker 1:
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Speaker 6:
[02:08] Hey, everyone. Today on the show, we're talking all about Muffins.
Speaker 7:
[02:13] I love this. Whatever you're saying, I'm not even paying attention to it. I'm just like, I love this.
Speaker 1:
[02:16] They're so good, aren't they?
Speaker 7:
[02:17] They're so good.
Speaker 1:
[02:18] What do we think? Still a muffin?
Speaker 2:
[02:20] It's not a muffin, that's for sure.
Speaker 6:
[02:22] I feel like the blueberry is perfectly mixed throughout.
Speaker 7:
[02:24] It's a crust that is so magically good.
Speaker 2:
[02:27] Sugar crust is good. Sugar crust is good.
Speaker 1:
[02:30] So for years, if you wanted to be a test cook at America's Test Kitchen, one of the things you had to do was make a muffin, write a story about it, and then everybody in the kitchen, the editors, the cooks, we would all taste the muffin and provide feedback. What that means is Bryan and I, we've tasted a lot of muffins that are like combined, I'm going to say 25 plus years here.
Speaker 2:
[02:53] Yep, easily.
Speaker 1:
[02:54] Yeah. So today the question is, what makes the perfect muffin? Welcome to In the Test Kitchen, a culinary playground and proving ground where recipes are developed, tested, and tasted until they're as close to perfect as possible. And now you're invited inside as we discuss and debate the most popular foods at ATK and beyond. I'm Lan Lam, recipe developer and host of Technically.
Speaker 2:
[03:18] I'm Bryan Roof, food editor and host of On the Road.
Speaker 7:
[03:22] I'm Nick Sharma, editor in residence and the host of Flavor Forward.
Speaker 6:
[03:25] I'm Lidey Hoyk, editor in residence and cookbook author.
Speaker 1:
[03:29] Grab your apron. You're in the Test Kitchen. Bryan, you remember any weird muffins?
Speaker 2:
[03:37] Yeah, I remember my muffin being really weird. Like, I don't know if it was weird per se. It was a straightforward cranberry nut muffin with some, I think it had orange zest in it. But I remember the struggle of developing a recipe for the first time like that, and just going through the process. I was bringing all the excess muffins to my local librarians, because I kept on checking out America's Test Kitchen cookbooks the whole time.
Speaker 6:
[03:57] It must have been nerve-racking to do that for the first time among all these test cooks and have them try the muffin.
Speaker 2:
[04:03] Well, I think the thing is, you think you're a good cook going into the process, and you quickly learn how little you do know about recipe development.
Speaker 1:
[04:10] Yeah, I remember some really, we'll call them creative muffins. A lot of people did like cocktail-inspired muffins.
Speaker 7:
[04:18] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[04:19] And the idea was so good because, you know, like a Manhattan, okay, a Manhattan muffin, except the flavors never quite came through. The cherry would get chopped up and folded inside, and it was just gummy.
Speaker 6:
[04:32] I feel like it could be bigger.
Speaker 7:
[04:33] That's the challenge, right? Of a muffin is that it is something such a simple thing, and it's always the simplest recipes that grew in between.
Speaker 6:
[04:43] I also feel like a muffin lends itself so well to so many different flavors, but it's easy to get carried away.
Speaker 2:
[04:50] I remember one of those muffins to Caymans, Captain Crunch Berry.
Speaker 6:
[04:54] Okay, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 7:
[04:57] Was it good?
Speaker 2:
[04:58] No, it wasn't.
Speaker 4:
[04:59] Oh, that's so disappointing.
Speaker 2:
[05:00] I like that cereal.
Speaker 6:
[05:01] Do they actually have the cereal?
Speaker 8:
[05:02] Yeah, just right on top.
Speaker 1:
[05:04] They all sounded great. Some of them looked great, but then you would taste them and like, oh, oh no, what happened? It would just be like dry and crumbly or like kind of a mishmash of flavors, and you didn't really understand what it was you were tasting.
Speaker 7:
[05:20] We love a challenge, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[05:21] If you guys had to develop a muffin, what would you do? I know I'm putting you on the spot.
Speaker 7:
[05:27] I don't know about Lidey, neither of us have actually developed muffins for ATK.
Speaker 6:
[05:31] No, I haven't.
Speaker 7:
[05:32] And we haven't done the challenge that you guys have done.
Speaker 1:
[05:35] Remember, the job is to stand out.
Speaker 2:
[05:37] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[05:38] I mean, I see why you get to a place of making a Manhattan muffin. You're like, what muffin hasn't been made before?
Speaker 1:
[05:44] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[05:45] But I do feel like I might go for just a really good version of something more familiar. I mean, I feel like the bar is higher, but if you deliver on that, that's going to be a muffin that everyone loves.
Speaker 7:
[05:56] Yeah. I think if I had to do a muffin, I would go on the savory side of things because that's something that I want in the morning. And so it would be everything I want for breakfast in a muffin.
Speaker 1:
[06:06] What do you want for breakfast?
Speaker 2:
[06:08] Yeah. Like bacon and egg.
Speaker 7:
[06:09] A little bit of cheese maybe. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. We're talking about like cocktails and muffins. I would try and bring hash browns into a muffin in some way. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:
[06:18] It'd be like a giant tater tot.
Speaker 7:
[06:20] Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[06:21] Would you line the tin with the shredded potatoes, and pour the batter inside?
Speaker 7:
[06:26] I would do like a whole tater tot thing. I would do a whole tater tot thing with a little bit of cheese in there, chives, and maybe if I'm feeling extra fancy, and this may not work, but I would inject caviar or something into it.
Speaker 2:
[06:38] I think it's going to be pretty good. I love caviar.
Speaker 7:
[06:41] A little bit of sour cream on top so it's cool.
Speaker 2:
[06:43] But you know when you have a breakfast plate, you have the syrup that goes over top of everything. It's like the binder for everything. So the hash browns, the bacon, the eggs all get syrup on them. Maybe you could play around with that.
Speaker 7:
[06:51] I would use cornbread.
Speaker 2:
[06:53] I actually do not like muffins. I would never go into a coffee shop.
Speaker 1:
[06:56] Were you traumatized by ATK's muffins?
Speaker 2:
[06:59] Maybe. It's not something I crave. Actually, when I go to a coffee shop, I see people buying muffins for breakfast. I'm like, why? What are you doing?
Speaker 6:
[07:06] Walking around having a coffee and eating a muffin right out of the paper bag.
Speaker 7:
[07:11] And it's nice with the crumb stain. It's just like, I'm going to say this, it's a cutesy feeling that I love. Like you're walking in the park with your dog or your cat.
Speaker 1:
[07:22] I'll make sure you and Paddington, a little bag of white pastries.
Speaker 7:
[07:26] And I'd make him one too.
Speaker 6:
[07:28] Sometimes you just need a cutesy feeling and a cutesy muffin.
Speaker 7:
[07:31] Bryan, you need a cutesy feeling in your life.
Speaker 6:
[07:33] What is your coffee shop? Or like, what do you order at a coffee shop then?
Speaker 2:
[07:36] I would do like a savory croissant or something. Savory croissant.
Speaker 6:
[07:39] Okay.
Speaker 8:
[07:39] Savory croissant.
Speaker 1:
[07:42] It's a little basic, but I feel like when it comes to muffins, I kind of like a straight up blueberry muffin. It's like what I think of when I think muffin, like that's the image that comes to mind.
Speaker 6:
[07:53] Yeah, I agree. I feel like with a little crumble, maybe element on top for some texture.
Speaker 7:
[07:59] I do think it's a very iconic image of what a muffin is because of, you know, jiffies.
Speaker 2:
[08:04] Yeah. You mean this old guy right here?
Speaker 7:
[08:06] Ah, look at you with the...
Speaker 1:
[08:10] You're just waiting for that.
Speaker 2:
[08:11] This is my first exposure to muffins in general, and blueberry muffins, so...
Speaker 7:
[08:16] This is also the first muffin mix that I learned to bake with.
Speaker 2:
[08:20] Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 7:
[08:21] It's just perfect. Also, you don't need a lot. It's just like, what, eggs, milk?
Speaker 2:
[08:26] Eggs, milk, oil.
Speaker 7:
[08:27] Egg, milk, oil, yeah, and the package. And maybe blueberries if you're feeling fancy. Don't they come with blueberries?
Speaker 6:
[08:31] Are there blueberries in there? Are they freeze-dried?
Speaker 2:
[08:34] Should I crack it open?
Speaker 7:
[08:35] Go ahead.
Speaker 2:
[08:36] All right. Here goes.
Speaker 6:
[08:36] I grew up eating the jiffy cornbread, but I've never seen a muffin mix. And I still think there's a place for that.
Speaker 2:
[08:43] I think they're all imbedded into this dry mixture.
Speaker 1:
[08:45] I think it's all in there.
Speaker 2:
[08:46] It's all in there. It's a self-contained unit. Let's see. All right. Oh, yeah. Look at this.
Speaker 7:
[08:53] It does have little freeze-dried.
Speaker 2:
[08:54] Yeah, they look like wild blueberries.
Speaker 7:
[08:55] Are those freeze-dried or just like dried blueberries?
Speaker 2:
[08:57] I want to eat one just because. Are they good? It's like the best part of a cereal.
Speaker 1:
[09:05] I'm so sorry. This feels like a prank. Mm, they're so good.
Speaker 6:
[09:08] The blueberry tastes just like a blueberry muffin. I don't know. It tastes like blueberry essence. And maybe with a little bit of artificial, but like kind of in a good way.
Speaker 2:
[09:18] Artificial blueberry flavor, this muffin, because it tastes.
Speaker 6:
[09:20] Is that a blueberry or is that a piece of candy?
Speaker 8:
[09:23] Can I see that box one more time?
Speaker 6:
[09:25] It eats like a piece of candy.
Speaker 7:
[09:27] So the Jiffy blueberry mix, in terms of flavor, is actually fascinating. Because they did a lot of research into what blueberry flavors are. So the actual blueberry, like the fruit, has about 300, around 300 aromatic chemicals that build up the profile. But then the artificial flavor for blueberries is only around 30. And in there, there's one key molecule called ironones, which are seen in blueberries. They also put it into raspberry mixes and stuff like that. What I find most interesting about this, blueberries, when you bake them, when you bake blueberries fresh, the aroma doesn't last. So they had to figure out a way how to make the aromas last. And that's what makes this unique.
Speaker 8:
[10:05] No blueberries.
Speaker 2:
[10:07] Don't ruin this.
Speaker 3:
[10:08] Let me see that.
Speaker 2:
[10:08] Don't ruin this.
Speaker 3:
[10:09] Sorry.
Speaker 7:
[10:10] What does it say? It's the magic of artificial flavors.
Speaker 6:
[10:14] Well, it's not listed here, but I think they're in here.
Speaker 7:
[10:17] Even the big flavor in this is built.
Speaker 6:
[10:19] How do you explain it?
Speaker 7:
[10:21] It's like sweet candy, right?
Speaker 1:
[10:22] I think it tastes like candy. It is candy.
Speaker 7:
[10:24] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[10:25] I want to take a sieve and just get all the blueberries out, and then either just eat them. Yeah, the blueberries or do something with them. I feel like they're these little bursts of flavor. I don't know what.
Speaker 7:
[10:34] Ice cream. It will be so good in ice cream.
Speaker 6:
[10:38] Okay.
Speaker 7:
[10:38] I'm getting very excited.
Speaker 1:
[10:40] Hold your horses. We've got actual blueberry muffins for everyone to try.
Speaker 7:
[10:44] Oh, gosh.
Speaker 8:
[10:44] They look pretty.
Speaker 6:
[10:46] They look beautiful.
Speaker 2:
[10:49] Can you take those off for later, please?
Speaker 1:
[10:50] Yeah, I can take it. So these are our best blueberry muffins. This recipe was developed quite a while ago by Yvonne Ruperti, and they're so delicious. They have juicy bits of fresh blueberry, but swirled in is also a homemade kind of almost a blueberry jam that kind of concentrates the flavor. And then right on top is a sprinkle of lemon sugar to just add a touch of texture to pair with the juicy berries and the tender, cakey muffin.
Speaker 2:
[11:18] This is so good.
Speaker 6:
[11:20] This is delicious.
Speaker 2:
[11:21] Yeah. I talk all that smack about muffins. Yeah, take it back.
Speaker 6:
[11:24] Yeah, what's wrong with this?
Speaker 2:
[11:25] I take part of it back.
Speaker 6:
[11:27] It's so tall and fluffy, and I feel like the blueberries are perfectly like suspended in the batter and perfectly mixed throughout.
Speaker 2:
[11:34] And that lemon sugar, is it lemon sugar?
Speaker 7:
[11:36] It's a crust that is so magical.
Speaker 6:
[11:38] Wow.
Speaker 2:
[11:39] Yeah. Sugar crust is good. Sugar crust is good.
Speaker 7:
[11:43] I will say one thing about this blueberry. The flavor of the blueberry is not as intense as I'm used to with the Jiffy's, and we're just kind of playing on that artificial chemistry flavor thing.
Speaker 1:
[11:52] Yeah. I think what is interesting about this muffin is some parts you get juicy, lightly cooked blueberry and it's a little more acidic, it's brighter, and then other packets are a little deeper, jamier. That's a really nice way to keep every bite kind of different.
Speaker 2:
[12:08] Yeah. I'd say that the overwhelming flavor is like vanilla cake.
Speaker 7:
[12:11] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[12:12] You know?
Speaker 7:
[12:12] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[12:13] And that's where you kind of tiptoe into like, is muffin just a cake in a short stack form or?
Speaker 1:
[12:19] I feel like a muffin is a quick bread and that's different.
Speaker 2:
[12:22] It is different.
Speaker 1:
[12:23] A lot of cakes have a finer, tighter crumb.
Speaker 2:
[12:26] This is a pretty tight crumb.
Speaker 6:
[12:27] And frosting.
Speaker 1:
[12:29] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[12:30] And frosting.
Speaker 6:
[12:30] And frosting. I mean, listen, if this had frosting on it, I would delete it.
Speaker 7:
[12:34] I would compare this to a pound cake more than anything. Like a pound cake, I feel is the tighter texture. This is less tight. You can tell the ratios are also different than a pound cake. As a blueberry fan and someone who grows his own blueberry for his dog, I will say this. Yes, I have six blueberry bushes just for my dog because he loves them. He comes running to it. I do everything for my dog. Okay. But I will say this, I think it has the right number of blueberries. I love that some of them has split, so the juices flow through, so it's colorful, it's exciting, and the texture on top for me, that lemon sugar, that crunch. It almost candies the blueberries when they go into your mouth. It's very sultry.
Speaker 6:
[13:11] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[13:13] They pop a little bit more when you have that extra sugar. I think, honestly, Lidey, I think that's why the Jiffy blueberries pop. I think they put a good amount of sugar in that mix, and they'll just stand out a little more because that sweetness hits so quick.
Speaker 6:
[13:27] And this is much fresher, they're much juicier, but they don't have that kind of concentrated flavor. I wonder how a blueberry muffin would taste if you made it with wild, small, main blueberries.
Speaker 1:
[13:37] You can definitely swap out fresh blueberries for main blueberries or even frozen ones so you don't happen to be able to find them fresh.
Speaker 7:
[13:45] So now we're talking about muffins, but what really is a muffin? Because you've got English muffins, and then you've got these muffins. What's the story behind all of this?
Speaker 6:
[13:54] Okay. So I feel like we think of a muffin as being a blueberry muffin. It's a quick bread, it's made in a muffin tin, it's sugary or maybe savory. But I dug into this and I was surprised that the first muffins are actually what an English muffin is. It's made with yeast, it's cooked on a griddle. That sort of English style muffin has been around since the Middle Ages. In the 1800s, it became a really popular snack that people would have during the day. So much so that we got that famous nursery rhyme, Do You Know the Muffin Man, which is a big hit at my house right now. We're saying a lot. But the Muffin Man would walk around selling muffins, and they're not this kind of muffin, they're yeasted, they have nooks and crannies, cooked on a griddle, almost like a pancake. The kind of American style muffin that we know didn't come around until the invention of baking powder and baking soda, which are really fast leaveners, so you don't have to wait for the yeast to rise, and it became just a much more quick accessible muffin. And then I feel like that just took off and became kind of the muffin with a million different versions that we know. Yeah.
Speaker 7:
[14:58] That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 6:
[14:59] So I feel like we think, oh, an English muffin is not a muffin. Well, actually, that is the prototype.
Speaker 7:
[15:03] That is the mother muffin.
Speaker 2:
[15:04] Yes.
Speaker 7:
[15:05] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[15:05] So what do we think makes the perfect muffin then?
Speaker 7:
[15:08] The looks. I mean, you got to have the dome on top. You got to have this narrow thing on the side, but also the liners. I just feel it's the whole image of what a muffin is, right?
Speaker 2:
[15:17] Right.
Speaker 1:
[15:18] I'm going to get super technical. Sorry.
Speaker 7:
[15:20] It's okay, Lan.
Speaker 1:
[15:21] I feel like you make it by stirring wet and dry ingredients together. You shouldn't have to have a stand mixer. You shouldn't have to have special ingredients unless they're just for flavor. But like butter or oil, sugar, flour, eggs, and then leaveners to do the lifting. I know that when I was tasting muffins in the Test Kitchen, I really cared about it having a tender, open crumb. And I wanted, if there are fillings, I'd like them to be mixed in uniformly.
Speaker 2:
[15:55] Yeah, and not sunk down to the bottom. Yeah. I agree. Like, there's that ratio of, I think it needs to have the right amount of fat to make it a moist muffin.
Speaker 1:
[16:03] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[16:03] The egg, you know, not being overworked, so it becomes chewy.
Speaker 1:
[16:07] It doesn't require a frosting or a filling, right?
Speaker 2:
[16:10] Like, it should be enough on its own entity.
Speaker 1:
[16:12] Maybe there's a glaze as an accent or a streusel as an accent, but they're not required.
Speaker 2:
[16:17] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[16:17] I also think you want a really nice kind of domed muffin top that has a different texture from the bottom of the muffin. To me, like, that is the reason to eat a muffin. And you want to make sure you've got a nice browning and kind of where the muffin spreads around the tin. Like, this is the best bite of the muffin. Yeah. Yeah. So I would focus on this, and then the bottom's, you know, kind of the afterthought.
Speaker 1:
[16:37] Do you guys have, have you ever baked in the pans that make just muffin tops? You know how there's like an eighth of an inch depression? And you fill it, and you get literally just the muffin top.
Speaker 6:
[16:48] But is it as good as a true muffin top?
Speaker 1:
[16:50] It's pretty good.
Speaker 7:
[16:51] But I know ATK has done some tests on the liners and regular cupcake liners give you a shorter dome versus if you make the homemade liners, the domes are taller.
Speaker 1:
[17:01] I think you have to kind of design the batter to go with the liner and to go with the vibe you're after. Because you can change the shape by messing with the oven temperature, the leaveners, there's so many ways to go about it.
Speaker 2:
[17:14] I think this pretty much scratches the edge of like, you get a lot of those things. You get the crunchy top, you get a nice brown edge, tender crumb, you get a good distribution of the blueberries.
Speaker 6:
[17:23] This feels like a picture-perfect muffin.
Speaker 7:
[17:25] Yeah, and I have to say one little thing. It's not frosted, but the sugar on top gives it like, I don't know, like a snowy effect.
Speaker 6:
[17:31] I like it. Yeah, it's like just a little dusting of snow.
Speaker 1:
[17:34] You could always add to any muffin recipe you have, and it's gonna probably work.
Speaker 2:
[17:39] Yeah, I also want to point out the way that Lan and I eat muffins after years of working at the Test Kitchen where we pick things apart with our hands.
Speaker 6:
[17:44] It's like a raccoon got into those muffins.
Speaker 1:
[17:47] This is how I eat all food here.
Speaker 2:
[17:48] Yeah, it is t-t-t-t-t-t. And you guys are so much more civilized than us, so.
Speaker 7:
[17:52] I mean, we're trying, right? We're trying to be like a good image for you, too.
Speaker 6:
[17:57] I like to eat it and to just, you know, analyze it the way a normal person eats it. What is the experience of eating a muffin?
Speaker 2:
[18:04] Thank you for your...
Speaker 7:
[18:05] We didn't eat it with a fork and knife, so you should be proud of us.
Speaker 1:
[18:07] All right, guys, are we ready for our second muffin?
Speaker 2:
[18:10] Yes, please.
Speaker 1:
[18:10] All right, Jose?
Speaker 7:
[18:14] Oh, this is very different.
Speaker 1:
[18:16] These beauties are Brown Butter Chocolate Chunk Muffins, developed by Amanda Luchtel, and she has a brown butter batter, so it's brown butter instead of oil.
Speaker 2:
[18:27] Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:
[18:28] And inside, instead of chocolate chips, she's got chopped chocolate, so you get gooey bites of chocolate instead, because bar chocolate just melts differently than chips. And then to top it all off and give it that bakery look, they're in kind of tall minors to help them kind of rise really tall, like Nik, you were talking about.
Speaker 7:
[18:45] I love this. Whatever you're saying, I'm not even paying attention to it. I'm just like, I love this.
Speaker 1:
[18:49] They're so good, aren't they?
Speaker 7:
[18:50] This is so damn good.
Speaker 2:
[18:51] This is like cake, though. I mean.
Speaker 7:
[18:54] Same talk. Well, I eat, but I'm going to. Okay. It's the chocolate. It really spells out chocolate. I like the fact that there's no cocoa, but the chocolate is dominating this. Like the smell, the way, like the flecks, right?
Speaker 1:
[19:09] But you get a nice chunk every so often.
Speaker 7:
[19:11] Yeah. And I'm not a big fan of chocolate chips, but I like when it's chopped up because the sizes are different. It just feels so different in your mouth. The smell's so good. Oh my gosh. This is the muffin of my.
Speaker 6:
[19:21] Is this making you change your mind about muffins?
Speaker 7:
[19:23] Oh, sweet muffins, yeah.
Speaker 6:
[19:24] I mean, this is a sweet muffin. Like there's no beating around the bush.
Speaker 1:
[19:27] I think the brown butter skews it just savory enough for you, right? Like, it's not like the muffin part itself isn't as sweet as, say, that blueberry muffin we had.
Speaker 6:
[19:38] I don't know, though.
Speaker 1:
[19:38] I mean, there's a good amount of sugar on top.
Speaker 6:
[19:40] To me, this is really like begging the question, like, is this?
Speaker 2:
[19:42] Yeah, I think this is really.
Speaker 7:
[19:44] It does lean a little more cake-ish, and which is probably why I love it.
Speaker 2:
[19:47] And it's also very moist. To me, I mean, your fingers are greasy when you touch it, you know?
Speaker 7:
[19:53] The sweetness is more uniform here. It's the bitterness that shows up on the chocolate that for me makes it stand out. With the blueberries, you have concentrated spots of flavor, right? So the bitterness is what makes this so special.
Speaker 2:
[20:04] When you say the blueberries offer more sourness, and this is the chocolate that has the bitterness that- Yeah. Which do you prefer?
Speaker 7:
[20:12] As of now, these.
Speaker 2:
[20:13] Yeah.
Speaker 7:
[20:13] Yeah. We'll see where this show leads us.
Speaker 2:
[20:18] Per your point earlier about the wrapper, we did this so the muffin would climb taller in the muffin tin. And so she takes a lot of time and effort to make those muffin tin liners and they do a great job of it too. It has that bakery look, but also the muffin is much taller.
Speaker 6:
[20:33] Can I ask why would a taller liner make the muffin taller?
Speaker 2:
[20:37] I think it has more to cling on to.
Speaker 1:
[20:40] Rather than spreading out, it goes up.
Speaker 6:
[20:41] There's no muffin top here.
Speaker 7:
[20:44] It's like Punchy the Monkey.
Speaker 6:
[20:44] I knew something was missing.
Speaker 7:
[20:47] It's like Punchy the Monkey trying to climb the muffin.
Speaker 2:
[20:49] You're unhappy about something.
Speaker 4:
[20:50] Well.
Speaker 7:
[20:51] You know muffins have a really special place in my life because it helped me in my career as a photographer.
Speaker 2:
[20:57] Oh, yeah?
Speaker 7:
[20:58] So I had to learn how to photograph by myself, and I did know how to photograph. And the only way you do is trial and error if there's no help, right? And so muffins, just because of the shape, they're actually the perfect tool to learn how to use them as a subject. A muffin reminds me, and this is very bizarre, it reminds me of a ballerina on stage performing.
Speaker 2:
[21:19] Okay.
Speaker 7:
[21:19] Because it's very solo in itself, and then everything else is noise and you're paying attention to her perform. And that's how I learned to do a lot of photography, because it's the muffin that I practiced with.
Speaker 2:
[21:30] Gosh, I feel like you need a recipe for ballerina muffins. That's your next recipe assignment.
Speaker 7:
[21:35] Like a pavlova muffin.
Speaker 6:
[21:36] That's beautiful, Nik.
Speaker 7:
[21:38] Thank you. I was like, what are you doing right now?
Speaker 6:
[21:39] That is so beautiful. I think you're right. It's like you don't want anything to distract from this thing of beauty that looks and tastes delicious. You just want simplicity.
Speaker 7:
[21:48] Yeah, right. I think it's the simplicity that makes a muffin beautiful, from the technique to the way it's delivered. There's nothing fancy, no real ornaments on top.
Speaker 1:
[21:57] Yeah, I think that's why it's not cake. It is its own bespoke mini package. It's not meant to be shared.
Speaker 2:
[22:05] This, a few bites into this and it's feeling too sweet, and it's more like I'm eating cake than a muffin.
Speaker 7:
[22:11] Would you like a darker chocolate here, but like more colorless sugar?
Speaker 1:
[22:15] Like a different sugar on top?
Speaker 7:
[22:16] Because I'd be open to that.
Speaker 2:
[22:17] I don't know. I just don't think this is like my muffin.
Speaker 6:
[22:21] Yeah. I think for me, it's like a couple of bites are good because chocolate's delicious, but then I'd feel good about stopping. I also just ate a whole blueberry muffin.
Speaker 2:
[22:27] This is a solid muffin. There's all these wonderful parts to it, and I could recognize and respect it, but this is not something that I would reach for.
Speaker 7:
[22:34] Can we make Bryan happy on this show and get him a muffin he likes?
Speaker 6:
[22:36] What about your old favorite?
Speaker 2:
[22:38] My old favorite?
Speaker 6:
[22:39] Your Jiffy.
Speaker 2:
[22:39] Jiffy. I haven't had a Jiffy box mix in a while.
Speaker 1:
[22:43] Wait, I got it. What if we griddle this muffin?
Speaker 7:
[22:47] Oh.
Speaker 2:
[22:47] Like you're going to cut it in little slabs.
Speaker 1:
[22:50] And like on salted butter. Like how about you get some salted butter, the chocolate gets a little melty.
Speaker 7:
[22:56] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[22:56] I mean, I can take anything tastes good.
Speaker 7:
[23:00] I think at that point, it's no longer a muffin.
Speaker 1:
[23:02] But like, how about you, like when it comes to diner food, I love a griddled muffin. Like, you know how they'll be like, what kind of bread do you want? If there's a griddled muffin option, that is what I'm having.
Speaker 3:
[23:11] Griddled like blueberry muffin?
Speaker 2:
[23:12] Yeah. I've never heard of that. It's so pretty good. Like a grilled sweet muffin?
Speaker 8:
[23:15] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[23:17] I've never seen that.
Speaker 1:
[23:17] Bryan, you have not lived.
Speaker 2:
[23:19] Where's this diner at?
Speaker 7:
[23:20] Cake with butter, it's the same idea.
Speaker 8:
[23:22] I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1:
[23:23] What?
Speaker 2:
[23:23] Yeah, I was thinking.
Speaker 1:
[23:24] Bryan, where to go griddle some muffins?
Speaker 2:
[23:26] Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 7:
[23:27] After hours.
Speaker 6:
[23:29] Slathering butter on it seems a little weird to me, but I guess I have to try the griddle aspect.
Speaker 7:
[23:34] I'm willing to do it.
Speaker 6:
[23:35] And maybe a little salt.
Speaker 7:
[23:36] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[23:37] I guess you can use a salted butter for the cooking.
Speaker 7:
[23:39] Yeah. Unless it's like a butter you've squeezed the milk out yourself and you've done something to it, it's really not necessary.
Speaker 1:
[23:46] I feel like I should have asked for griddled muffins.
Speaker 6:
[23:49] Let's go griddle some of these muffins.
Speaker 1:
[23:51] Hey, Jose.
Speaker 2:
[23:51] Take it down. Take it down.
Speaker 6:
[23:52] Let's try it. That would be fun.
Speaker 1:
[23:54] Okay. Can you griddle some muffins for us? Like, can you just take- Griddle? Can you just- Yeah. Can you take two, just cut them in half?
Speaker 6:
[24:02] It's for Bryan, basically.
Speaker 1:
[24:02] A little salty butter.
Speaker 2:
[24:04] Sure.
Speaker 1:
[24:04] Nice and toasty.
Speaker 6:
[24:05] Is this your request?
Speaker 2:
[24:06] Yeah. This is not my request.
Speaker 6:
[24:07] Bryan's asking for it.
Speaker 7:
[24:08] And if you don't like it, she's going to-
Speaker 6:
[24:11] I was thinking like, I do feel like there's a time and a place for different Muffins. And to me, a big muffin like this, I feel like they're usually really like a large bakery muffin. This is going to sound bad, but I feel like it's something I'd get at like the airport or like a Starbucks. Like it's a treat muffin. I don't know that I would home make a muffin like this. I feel like if I'm baking, I'm much more likely to do a blueberry or like I love a pumpkin muffin with a streusel on top. But I feel like a sweet, sweet muffin like this feels like a little treat, you know?
Speaker 7:
[24:41] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[24:41] Yeah. Since Jose is over there griddling my muffin, as they say, I'm going to swap these out.
Speaker 6:
[24:47] As they don't say.
Speaker 7:
[24:48] It's a family show.
Speaker 2:
[24:51] Nick, this should be right up our alley here. We have our sausage and herb stuffed muffins. These are stuffed muffins.
Speaker 1:
[24:58] All right, guys.
Speaker 7:
[24:59] Stuffed muffins.
Speaker 1:
[25:00] Stuffed muffins from Matt Fairman. So Matt took white bread, cut it up into cubes, tossed that bread with sauteed vegetables and breakfast sausage, packed it all into a muffin tin, baked it up till it was nice and crispy. What do we think? Still a muffin?
Speaker 2:
[25:15] It's not a muffin. That's for damn sure.
Speaker 6:
[25:18] I'm really happy to see a savory muffin though.
Speaker 7:
[25:20] I like that it's savory, but I'm going to be the one that says this is not a muffin. I feel someone just took something and squeezed it in here.
Speaker 2:
[25:30] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[25:30] But it's so good. It tastes exactly like Thanksgiving stuffing, but it has the added benefit of being crispy all over. I feel like stuffing just gets a little bit crispy on the top.
Speaker 5:
[25:40] This is exactly it.
Speaker 6:
[25:41] How about I'm going to make this for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:
[25:43] This is also something I think you need to eat this hot or at least warm. Eating it cold doesn't feel quite right.
Speaker 7:
[25:51] There's a lot of celery action, but I know it's stuffing, but there's a lot of celery.
Speaker 2:
[25:55] Do you like celery or no?
Speaker 7:
[25:55] I do, but I think in the morning, a lot of celery is like-
Speaker 1:
[25:58] I don't think this is a morning muffin.
Speaker 2:
[26:01] I don't know. Out of the three, I would probably eat this in the morning.
Speaker 7:
[26:04] It's not a muffin to me. You can see that it's like literally someone took stuffing with the bread cubes, squeezed it in here, and tried to make it a viral dish on the internet.
Speaker 1:
[26:13] You seem so offended by this recipe.
Speaker 7:
[26:15] I don't like it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[26:16] I think that's the recipe, actually.
Speaker 7:
[26:19] A real savory muffin is like Craftsman and Wolves in San Francisco, where they have this thing called the Rebel Within, which is phenomenal.
Speaker 2:
[26:26] Tell us.
Speaker 7:
[26:26] The Rebel Within is basically a sous vide egg that everyone's tried to replicate this recipe online. They never get it right. It's chives. I think there's sausage in it, a little bit of pork or bacon in there. And when you slice that savory muffin, the Rebel reveals itself within. And it's the sous vide egg and the yolk, like a thick, sunny thing.
Speaker 6:
[26:52] Is the yolk cooked through?
Speaker 7:
[26:54] It's not because it's sous vide. They have figured it out, how to bake it in there at the right temperature and not get that sous vide egg overcooked.
Speaker 6:
[27:01] It's like a scotch egg.
Speaker 2:
[27:02] That sounds, yeah.
Speaker 7:
[27:03] Yeah. Hold on. I think we have a surprise.
Speaker 2:
[27:05] Wow. Oh.
Speaker 6:
[27:10] So nice of you to toast Bryan's muffins.
Speaker 8:
[27:12] You're gonna swap the whole thing.
Speaker 2:
[27:14] All right. So nice and toasted there. So this is gonna change my mind here.
Speaker 7:
[27:20] Muffins got a little tan.
Speaker 1:
[27:22] The thing I like about griddled muffins is they're warm and they're crispy and like they're buttery.
Speaker 6:
[27:30] And do you want to try it, Nik?
Speaker 7:
[27:32] He's graciously shed some. It reminds me of a chocolate chip cookie.
Speaker 1:
[27:36] Griddled muffin is really good.
Speaker 2:
[27:37] We're stepping the right direction there. All right. So that's improved. I can get into that.
Speaker 1:
[27:44] Griddle your muffins.
Speaker 2:
[27:45] So you think if I go to any diner, I can just be like, can you griddle my muffin?
Speaker 1:
[27:48] If they have a muffin.
Speaker 2:
[27:51] Does that sound weird?
Speaker 6:
[27:53] I didn't even walk into any restaurant.
Speaker 7:
[27:56] Can you griddle my muffin?
Speaker 2:
[27:57] Can you griddle my muffin, sir? Sir? Sir, where are you going?
Speaker 1:
[28:03] There's only one way to find out.
Speaker 6:
[28:04] I want to turn this into French toast is the next thing I want to do.
Speaker 7:
[28:07] Oh, that's a good way to do it.
Speaker 6:
[28:07] When I was sitting there on the plate, I was like, I just want to pour maple syrup all over it.
Speaker 2:
[28:10] What if we did like a French toast style stuffing muffin? How would you feel about that?
Speaker 7:
[28:14] That was already very rich. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:
[28:18] All right, guys, now that we've tried three and a half muffins, we'll say, who wants to lead us off? Who's got a favorite and why?
Speaker 7:
[28:26] I'll go first. I love the chocolate chip muffin. It's so good. I mean, everything about it is perfect. And I do like the brittle version. That's quite delicious too. But I think it's just for me to make me happy. That's the chocolate chip muffin.
Speaker 6:
[28:41] I do want to remind you in the beginning of this episode, you said you didn't like sweet muffins, so you come around.
Speaker 7:
[28:46] Yeah, this show is where opinions are created, changed and modified.
Speaker 6:
[28:50] Oh, I'm really glad we could. Sometimes you just need to try a really good version of something, or you just need to have it in the right setting and think about it.
Speaker 1:
[28:58] Lidey, what do you think?
Speaker 6:
[28:59] Blueberry all the way. I just love a classic. I think the chocolate muffin, while it was delicious, felt a little too much of a treat for me for a muffin. Or as I feel like that blueberry muffin, I just kept eating it and eating it. And I loved how many blueberries there were. It just felt very fresh and fruity.
Speaker 2:
[29:14] I'm going to have to agree with that. If I was going to choose a muffin, that blueberry muffin was the iconic kind of Rosetta Stone muffin there. Great crust, great distribution of blueberries, nice dome, nice crispiness on top. Sweet, but not too sweet. The sour pops of blueberry. I liked it.
Speaker 1:
[29:31] I'm on record as a blueberry muffin person, so if you got a cross section of it, it'd be like the perfect muffin silhouette.
Speaker 6:
[29:39] So like Nick's ballerina, the perfect silhouette.
Speaker 2:
[29:42] Such a poetic show. Okay, so there's only really one way to end the show, and it's how we started. Jose, he's got this jiffy muffin.
Speaker 1:
[29:53] You're so excited.
Speaker 2:
[29:54] I'm excited. I want to see these little.
Speaker 6:
[29:56] They're adorable.
Speaker 2:
[29:57] They're tiny little guys.
Speaker 7:
[30:00] They're like babies compared to what we just ate.
Speaker 6:
[30:03] Oh yeah, I'm so excited to try these.
Speaker 3:
[30:04] Beautiful color.
Speaker 7:
[30:06] The blueberry smell. It is so good.
Speaker 6:
[30:07] Oh my gosh. It smells like those little muffins, little bites that come in the little pouches that are like a kid snack. That's what this is exactly.
Speaker 2:
[30:16] It smells like blueberry cereal. You guys ever had that?
Speaker 7:
[30:19] It is saltier though.
Speaker 2:
[30:21] Oh my God. I love that muffin. That's so good.
Speaker 1:
[30:25] I didn't make any faces, I swear.
Speaker 7:
[30:28] You know batter taste? That batter taste is coming through.
Speaker 2:
[30:32] Guys, I don't like you talking trash about my muffin.
Speaker 6:
[30:34] There's something almost lemony. It's not a lemon.
Speaker 1:
[30:38] I'm trying to turn off the test cook brain right now, because I think it's too tough. I think it's too tough for a muffin. There's tug to it.
Speaker 2:
[30:45] This is nostalgia in a muffin tin.
Speaker 1:
[30:47] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[30:47] That's all it is.
Speaker 1:
[30:47] I'm so sorry.
Speaker 6:
[30:48] I love how squishy it is.
Speaker 1:
[30:50] All right. You want to change your best muffin?
Speaker 2:
[30:52] No, I'll stick with the original, with the real one. This is good.
Speaker 1:
[30:56] So that's pretty much all we could possibly say about muffins. Thanks so much for joining us today in the Test Kitchen.
Speaker 2:
[31:03] Look at them.
Speaker 8:
[31:04] Look at what I've put in there. You, me, this is how I eat what I'm trying to.
Speaker 6:
[31:10] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[31:12] An AirWave Media Podcast.