transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] While we hope Couch Talks can be a tool that helps and supports wherever you are in life, Couch Talks does not serve as a replacement or a substitute for therapy or any mental health services.

Speaker 2:
[00:35] This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

Speaker 3:
[00:37] Happy Thursday. Welcome to Couch Talks, the Q&A episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy.

Speaker 1:
[00:41] And I'm Kat.

Speaker 3:
[00:42] And we have lots of feelings right now. The feeling for me right now, I feel like exciting. I use that one too much. So I need a-

Speaker 1:
[00:52] I have another one.

Speaker 3:
[00:52] What is it?

Speaker 1:
[00:53] I feel relieved.

Speaker 3:
[00:54] Why?

Speaker 1:
[00:55] Because I don't have to answer any questions today.

Speaker 3:
[00:57] Oh, okay. So that's a hint as to why I am excited. We have yet to have guests on the Feeling Things podcast ever since we transitioned, which by the way, it's been a year. Yeah. This is like a celebration of sorts.

Speaker 1:
[01:14] And that just snuck up on us.

Speaker 3:
[01:16] Totally.

Speaker 1:
[01:16] I didn't even realize it until you said it about 20 minutes ago.

Speaker 3:
[01:19] We should have had a year party or celebration. So that's when we should have done something live and in person. Well, it'll be a delayed celebration. We have Sissy Goff and David Thomas here with us. Check one, two. Do the mics work?

Speaker 4:
[01:35] Yes. We're so excited.

Speaker 3:
[01:38] You likely know of them. If you are in Nashville, you 100 percent know of them if you're a parent. No doubt. Even if you're not, you probably got in wind. Raising Boys and Girls. They have a podcast. They are amazing. They are so wise when it comes to raising boys and girls. Anybody that I talk to, it's like, oh, yeah, yes, of course. We all have seen your praises in the countless families that you have helped in Nashville and beyond, through your tools, resources, Instagram, online, your podcast. And now you have a new book called Capable and you're going on tour. So we put up a little thing on our Instagram asking our listeners some questions, or asking listeners to submit questions, excuse me, that they would like help with when it comes to their kids and their kids being capable. So I'll let, I want y'all to explain why capable, why did you write this book, why is it so important to you and then we're going to dive into these awesome questions. And if you're a parent, you're definitely going to appreciate them. If you plan on being a parent one day, you're definitely going to appreciate them. And if you're not a parent, you never plan on being a parent, well, stick around.

Speaker 4:
[02:58] Because you might know a kid.

Speaker 3:
[03:01] You were once a kid.

Speaker 4:
[03:03] There it is.

Speaker 3:
[03:04] Emotionally, you might still be a kid. So these questions will, and the answers, you never know when they may come in handy. So Sissy, David, take it away. Tell us about Capable.

Speaker 4:
[03:19] Well, we have been doing this work for over 30 years as therapists with kids and families, and we all know there is this crisis in the mental health of our youth and have been increasingly concerned about that. And then following that, in the last three years, we have started to notice what we really would call a crisis of capability among kids, where we're seeing more kids than ever who are afraid to go to school, who are afraid to talk to someone they don't know, who don't want to send a text, who, fast forward, y'all, we are talking to so many kids who are afraid to get their driver's license. The things that we were so excited and anticipatory of when we were kids, kids are really hesitant and fearful about now. And obviously we love therapy, we all four love therapy. And as therapists, so much of what we're doing is on the back end. We're reacting to what's happening. And our hope is we can do something on the front end and start to build some resilience in kids that can not only change the game in terms of mental health, but in terms of their confidence and sense of capability that's going to impact them for the rest of their lives.

Speaker 3:
[04:29] After hearing that, I 100% know if you've stuck around and you don't have kids, like this episode will help you. I think there are so many adults that still find themselves stuck at times and don't feel as though they're capable. And it might be something where they thought they would be excited for it. And then suddenly, they can't move forward with it, sort of like turning 16. And that is so true what you're saying. Obviously, I know you are around it, so you have the research. But I just have, in my own little life, my miniature case study, my kids are not that into 16 in driving. Like my daughter, when it was a thing, I don't even know that she really took off starting to drive on her own until well after she was 16, maybe even almost 17. And when I was 16, day one, I got my car and I was out of there.

Speaker 1:
[05:20] I can't relate to that. I, my mom had to surprise me. It not surprised me. She had to force me to go get my driver's license. But we were just talking earlier about my first therapist. Well, my second therapist, my first one, I refused to speak to her. But my first one gave me a book called Why Smart Kids Worry. And I have to be honest, I didn't read it. But the title, I think, did enough for me where she helped me understand like, there's nothing wrong with you. Your brain is working a little different and nobody explained this to you. And I feel like if I had that when I was 16, or my parents had that, because I think it was confusing to my parents. I think I was the only one in my family that refused to get her driver's license. But I think that would have been a really cool tool to have back then.

Speaker 3:
[06:05] Because you were worried.

Speaker 1:
[06:06] I was so, I was worried about everything. And I was, I think I was innately capable, but there was a lot of stuff that was going on in my head that was kind of tricking me and tell me that I'm not exact.

Speaker 3:
[06:18] Well, so Kat had that 20 years ago when she was turning 16. Why are we seeing a spike? Was it COVID or is there research behind that?

Speaker 2:
[06:30] Well, there's a lot of factors. And I think it would be the easiest thing to do to just blame the pandemic. And it was without a doubt a key ingredient. But if we look back pre pandemic, the numbers were climbing already. And so we were seeing elevated rates of anxiety and depression with kids, adolescents, and adults. And then it only accelerated. And what was even more alarming for us is we see kids from really eight to 18. And we were seeing younger and younger kids come in. And we were doing consultation with parents whose kids were too young to be a part of our practice who were showing signs in the four to six base. And so it became really concerning that we're seeing this growing evidence and it's showing up on the front side of development. And to Sissy's point, what could we be doing proactively to slow down this animal of anxiety? Because I so appreciated your story. Sissy has this great definition in her previous books on anxiety that she says anxiety is an overestimation of the situation and an underestimation of myself. And if we don't do things to press into that, develop tools and skills and strategies, then everything in life just starts to get bigger. And so it starts as, I don't want to try out for a team or be a part of a club, and then I don't want to get my driver's license, and then I don't want to apply to college, I don't want to launch out into the world, and we don't want kids to feel anything but capable. And so it felt important to us to be thinking, what else could we be doing to offer tools to parents on the front side of development or wherever you are? We had a conversation with a parent the other day who's like, I have a 19-year-old that I can't get to launch out into the world. And our hope is that this book speaks to that parent as well.

Speaker 3:
[08:13] So this is just another tool for parents to have. Would older kids that are 18, 19 benefit from reading capable? Or is it mostly for the parents?

Speaker 4:
[08:24] It's mostly for the parents. But I think it's so interesting. Your therapist recommended that book, which is one I read in my research for anxiety, because it's a parenting book. And so I do think there are times that, and actually, I didn't even tell you this, someone on Instagram said I read the first chapter of the book to my preteen, and we both got so teary. So, yeah, I mean, I think certainly.

Speaker 3:
[08:49] Yeah, kids could dive into it, if they are old enough, and it could be a tool for them. But similar to Kat, it's like, ah, they're really gonna read it.

Speaker 4:
[08:57] Right, that might.

Speaker 1:
[08:59] I was also in grad school at the time, I was reading a lot. So, but I still have the book, I can never go back to it. Maybe I could read it now.

Speaker 3:
[09:08] Kat and I were talking about books, which I so appreciate, Capable, but just side note, we've been talking about Theo of Golden. Have y'all heard of this book? Yes. I am in the middle of it right now, and it, speaking of how you wanna show up in the world and live, it's okay, yes, Capable, and there's all these things, these boxes we have to check to be adults. Like, oh yeah, driver's license, check, school, check, career, check, da, da. Theo of Golden, he's, Theo's more towards the end of his life. He's in a later chapter, and his life has been lived, but he's also just showing us how to give in a way that's so selfless and so creative, but without the attention. And I just got to a part of it, and this won't give anything away, but as a younger adult man, or younger than he is now in this part of the storyline, where he gave something and was honored for it, and his name was even put up at the school. Maybe it was a donation or something. And that afterwards, he felt pretty empty. And now he's giving in a way that is just more in private, and he wants to keep it that way. And it's so fulfilling. And it's just like, how do you want to show up and brighten people's day without it being this-

Speaker 1:
[10:24] More meaningful.

Speaker 3:
[10:25] More, yeah, it's this attention thing. And not that he donated to the school for attention, he's just noticing the difference. And when I think of even just pouring into kids, like sometimes how can we pour into them, maybe not in this grandiose way, but just nudging along and encouraging some of those teens out there that really are, like knowing what y'all are saying, then it's most of the teens you're running into are likely experiencing some sort of fear and doubt and don't think they're capable, just nudging them quietly and reminding them, you are capable.

Speaker 4:
[10:58] We talk about the five strengths, skills and strategies that we feel like really build resilience and that kids are losing today, and one of them is moving outward, giving and having purpose. And I think even to your thoughts about young adults, but little ones can do it too. I mean, it is amazing the stats around how elevating giving is for any of our level of confidence. It makes such a difference in our lives. We do feel so good about ourselves when we do that. So I love that idea of encouraging kids to do that.

Speaker 3:
[11:27] Well, we did get some questions from listeners. I'm going to put up the little question box. And we're just going to start with one right out of the gate about being capable. And someone asked, what do I do if my child is capable of doing a task on their own but chooses not to do it? And I'm in a time crunch, so it's just easier to do it myself, which every parent can probably relate to that. Never mind. Let me just do this a little bit faster. So they're saying they know their child is capable, but that's what y'all are speaking to. The child is also capable of taking the driver's test, but they don't want to do it. But this could be a simple even chore around the house or packing their bag.

Speaker 2:
[12:09] I had two thoughts. I think first I would want to say to that parent, like every parent listening, I love that you said that understands that dilemma. And just the reality that there are times when the only option that exists is we have to get out the door. And so I'm going to prioritize timing right now. And then at a later point, we may circle back to that. And there might be something we leverage or some kind of consequence in response to that, so that we're still able to attend to that moment. But what I would also say to that parent is I think in the every day of navigating life with kids and adolescents, most things or at least many things take twice as long if we let kids do them. And we can make it happen much faster and is where we stand in the way of capability sometimes. So if we just let toddlers pour their own juice into a cup or fill up their own water bottle, they're gonna slosh that stuff all over the place. We're gonna have to clean it up. It's just easier and quicker to just do it myself. But we would challenge parents to think about where that robs kids of opportunity. And even if the moving through it is messier or slower, there's all kinds of great learning that we would argue happens in those moments.

Speaker 3:
[13:23] Okay. We're gonna trust you on that.

Speaker 1:
[13:26] I was gonna say, it sounds like it's probably hard to find the line between when do I fill up the water bottle and when do I let them slosh the water around? How do I know when it's important we gotta get out the door and when being 15 minutes late is not that big of a deal?

Speaker 3:
[13:41] I'm picturing my kids, grown adults, and they're like, I don't know how to pour milk. My mom did it for me all the time. Because I was not wanting to pick up the mess, but you're right. There are times when, yeah, if you need to be somewhere, go ahead and do it. But when you don't, just know, okay, yay, I get to wipe up a mess. Make it into some sort of whimsical situation.

Speaker 2:
[14:06] Well, and a great challenge within that, when Sissy and I teach together, she will often say to parents, okay, I'm going to throw out this challenge to you. What are two things that you are currently doing for your kids that they could be doing for themselves? And then what are two things that they could almost do for themselves that you're currently doing? And what would it look like for you to step back from all four?

Speaker 1:
[14:27] Oh, God, the almost.

Speaker 3:
[14:29] All four.

Speaker 1:
[14:30] I thought you were going to give us like 50%.

Speaker 3:
[14:32] No, no.

Speaker 4:
[14:34] No, four.

Speaker 3:
[14:35] Well, I have a confession, something that I did early on because my kids moved to America from Haiti and they didn't speak any English, so I would have to answer for them a lot. Now they know English and I, well, it was my ex-boyfriend that pointed this out. I, Sissy, David, I had a boyfriend and we broke up. We broke up like a month ago, so well, mom, but it's fine. But he is the one that pointed this out to me. No one else had called me out on it. And I was very thankful. He's a dad of three. He would find that when he was asking my kids something, especially in the early days of us dating, obviously an appropriate time for him to meet them. It wasn't like day one. But when he was first hanging out with them, he was asking them questions and trying to get to know them. And I was impatient because they were taking forever to answer. And then I was out of habit because I was answering for them for so many years while they were learning English, which probably wasn't right of me either, because they would probably learn some things a lot faster. I would step in and one night he, after they left the room and he pulled me aside, he was like, hey, you answer for them a lot. And I was like, I do. And I didn't even realize I was doing it. And so I was so thankful he pointed it out to me because then I had the knowledge, I was able to then practice that. Now, I find myself still jumping in and then I back off. I have a mental note and I back off. I'm not going to be perfect every time, but I share that because for other parents listening, it might not be that you're speaking for them. Maybe it is and it has nothing to do with the English as their second language. You just answer for them. Maybe they're quiet or soft spoken. But still, we need to let them speak because that's sometimes, too, another thing with my daughter, she wouldn't really enunciate and sometimes she would mumble. Well, if I step in and do that for her, she's not going to learn to speak up. And I need to, as a parent, guide her, speak up, please. When you're talking to someone else, please speak up instead of filling in whatever. So as parents, if you can relate to my story in whatever your circumstance, fill that in and pretend that the guy you're dating points it out to you and you really respect him. And it's almost like the veil was lifted. I hadn't noticed it. And then once you notice it, which Sissy and David are helping you notice maybe some of these things that you're doing, then start to hold yourself accountable. And I can speak from experience. The more I practice it, the easier it gets.

Speaker 4:
[17:11] Yes, we talk sometimes about we're so busy being resources for our kids that they don't develop resourcefulness. And that's exactly what you're talking about. And Lamont, I don't know if y'all have read her.

Speaker 3:
[17:22] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[17:22] She has, we had her on the podcast and she used this great acronym that is WAIT, which stands for Why Am I Talking?

Speaker 3:
[17:32] I feel like Kat, we need that just in ourselves. We, well, you know, it's part of our disorder.

Speaker 1:
[17:43] We like to think that people enjoy it.

Speaker 3:
[17:47] We just always have something to say. We're like, they'll understand. But we have to go pause, pause, pause, pause.

Speaker 4:
[17:56] You can say, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 1:
[17:57] Yeah, wait, that's good.

Speaker 3:
[17:58] I like that. I like having the, wait, okay, wait. Why am I talking? Wait. That is similar to the pause. Instead of sometimes the story I have in my head is, shut up, nobody cares what you have to say.

Speaker 1:
[18:12] I say that, but I don't. What's interesting is I can apply that really well when I'm being a therapist. But when I'm being a person, I don't think that I ask myself, why am I talking? So I was taught that as a professional. And because I've cut those two, sometimes I've cut those two lines so differently or separately. I'm like, maybe in my personal life, I need to do a little waiting as well.

Speaker 3:
[18:31] Yeah. Why am I talking?

Speaker 1:
[18:33] Why am I talking? Wait, wait.

Speaker 3:
[18:35] That is so good. I love it.

Speaker 2:
[18:49] You know what I love about your story, just your honesty. I think it's highlighting this reality that is important to note in all this, which is everything in us wants to support our kids. That's intuitive, it's good, it's right, it's how we're wired. Nothing in me as a dad wants to watch them struggle in any way. And I was thinking when you were telling that story, I just don't think that goes away. I mean, two weeks ago, one of my kids is in his mid-20s, he's in grad school, he was home, and he was talking through, he's going to be a bat groomsman, excuse me, not a bachelor groomsman in all these weddings, and a lot of them are out of town, and grad students don't have any money, and I'm like, buddy, you know, the longer you wait to book tickets, the more expensive they get. And I said out loud, and I've written this book called Cable, you want to jump on Southwest's website right now? I was opening my computer, because I don't want him to feel the hit of, it's going to drain his bank account. He knows this already. Like he knows that reality. He's booked his own tickets before. And I just want to rescue him from that. And the reality is the better learning is going to happen when he goes to book those expensive tickets. It kind of drains the account. He's going to get a lousy seat on the airplane. Like all the things that we know come from the discomfort of the learning, that we talk a lot in this book about inviting parents into the question of just, am I allowing some of the discomfort to happen, or am I avoiding it? For kids and for us, because oftentimes when our kids are struggling, the rescue is more about our discomfort. Like I just cannot manage what I feel on the inside, in those uncomfortable moments when the speaking is not happening, when he's not jumping on this task. But I just don't think that's something that ever goes away. So I think we have to work within that discomfort, both ours and theirs.

Speaker 1:
[20:37] What would you say, because I think a lot of parents can, they'll hear that and they'll be like, yes, it is that I don't want my child to fail or have to go through that. If I can avoid them tripping and falling, I want to break that fall for them. So what would you say to help sit with that discomfort they need?

Speaker 4:
[20:58] To do their own work. The parents?

Speaker 1:
[21:01] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[21:02] Yes. Because I mean, genuinely, that's anxiety.

Speaker 1:
[21:04] That's what it is, yes.

Speaker 4:
[21:06] So when we can do our own work of calming ourselves down and having a mantra like weight or whatever it is, or discomfort builds good things, any of those things, I think it's really helpful. It only benefits the child.

Speaker 1:
[21:17] And the more times you can sit through that, the easier it gets to sit through that. But you have to do it once.

Speaker 4:
[21:22] Right. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[21:24] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[21:25] You got to do the work. Kat's pregnant.

Speaker 4:
[21:30] That's so exciting.

Speaker 3:
[21:32] Well, because you're going to, I'm saying, because you're with child, so you're like, how am I going to be a mom?

Speaker 1:
[21:36] How am I going to do that?

Speaker 3:
[21:37] So now you know, you have to do the work.

Speaker 1:
[21:39] Right now, I'm like, how am I going to know when to feed this child? But now I'm like, okay, and I have to know all these things too.

Speaker 3:
[21:44] Yeah. But the thing is, Kat is a therapist that also goes to therapy, so you're already doing the work. I would imagine you'll have good boundaries. I had to do the work and I have to continue to do the work because, for example, my daughter one time had a job interview and she didn't coordinate well with her timing on getting there. So then I was going to step in and I knew how to figure it out and get her there on time and I had to do nothing. I hated that because now she wasn't going to get the job and that's okay. Because if I swoop in or if I would have swept in, like it would have, but that's what, but I had training that led to that. And I was like, real, like I wasn't going to, I have an example of when I swooped in another time. And let me tell you, it wasn't pretty. I swooped in with anger and I was like, we're going to be late. She had a job in down in Green Hills. It was going to be a 17 minute drive. And now we're going to be late. And then I, I mean, few cuss words, not going to lie. Like, get in the car, remember? Blank and blank. And I'm like, I mean, almost to where she's got tears in her eyes. And I was like, she's going to learn. And that did not, but I was, it was like, I was completely dysregulated myself. So that was too bad because I swooped in to rescue her. And I did it in such a harsh, very to me damaging in that moment. I went back and made amends and apologized and I owned it. That same night, but I escalated everything when it should have been more like, well, I guess you're not going to make it. You need to call them and tell them. But I, it was horrible. So then the next time this came around, I had done some work because I knew I didn't want to react like that last time and I did nothing. And you know what? It didn't impact me at all. It didn't, it didn't, it not, that doesn't mean I don't care about her, but it just literally did not disrupt my day. And that's exactly how it should be because it probably disrupted her day. But that's for her to deal with.

Speaker 1:
[23:55] Right.

Speaker 3:
[23:56] But as parents, we want to take on everything. And then when you take on too much, it's when you explode and you're driving to Green Hills with your hands on the steering wheel, yelling, trying to teach them a lesson.

Speaker 4:
[24:11] Okay. Can I just tell you one piece of advice in 2026 as you're about to have a baby?

Speaker 1:
[24:16] I will take it.

Speaker 4:
[24:17] One of the things we talk about in the book is all these years of counseling, these trends we've seen in parenting. And we talk about needs-based parents versus success-based parents. And today, there's this combination of panic-based parenting and expert-based parenting. And what we're seeing is in this age of phones, and a zillion people out there trying to be experts on parenting, which we throw ourselves in that camp, that we're seeing more parents abdicate their intuition to experts and not trust themselves. And Kat, you have amazing training. As a human, as a therapist, you have a great friend who you get to have these beautiful conversations with when you get there. Don't worry about, do I know all the?

Speaker 1:
[25:06] The right things.

Speaker 4:
[25:06] You got it. Trust yourself and really don't follow 500.

Speaker 1:
[25:11] Yeah, and when it makes you wonder like, how my parents did it. Like they didn't have social media. They might have read a book, but there wasn't as much info. And what I think I've done, I keep telling myself I have time to read the books, but I think I'm avoiding, I don't follow any parenting people. But I think it's like the, I'm too far the other side of the spectrum.

Speaker 4:
[25:33] Counter phobic.

Speaker 1:
[25:33] Yes, where I'm like, it's too overwhelming. And how do I discern which expert is right? Because I know I could follow five people and they could all tell me something different. And then I'm like, what in the world? And then what if it doesn't match that intuition that I had or what I, how the kind of parent I want to be. So I think I'm like, I'm just gonna hold that there and I'll deal with it later. So that's really helpful to hear that like, you do have information already.

Speaker 4:
[25:59] You are the only expert. Regarding your child, you're the only expert right now regarding your body and your pregnancy. Really, you're the only expert on your kids.

Speaker 1:
[26:06] Yeah, and that's something I have learned super fast. I didn't, I think it's because of how I operate and how I try to let people, and this is not innate from me. This is like from being a therapist, learning trial and error, letting people figure out what's best for them on their own. I feel like I expected other people to be that way. Like not that anybody's been harmful, but the amount of, whether it's unsolicited advice or like fear mongering or whatever, I'm like, oh my gosh, people, I just found out. Let me just be happy for a second. So it is, there's a lot out there.

Speaker 4:
[26:44] The fear mongering, I think in the parenting space, I mean, post-conception, just the, you know, this is gonna cause damage. I mean, there's just so much coming at everybody right now. It's way too much. I love that you're not doing that. Yes, I think that's so awesome. Trust yourself.

Speaker 1:
[27:01] Thank you. See, that's the kind of advice I need.

Speaker 3:
[27:04] So this is an expert. You can trust and follow. Sissy and David. Next question from a listener. How do I handle it when my young child says, that's not fair?

Speaker 2:
[27:19] I think we'll hear a lot of that from a lot of kids all on the way. I think it's super common. So I would say that parent, don't be the least bit alarmed. And I'd add to that, don't hold yourself hostage to believing you could ever execute complete fairness across the board with all kids, all siblings. I don't even think that's a helpful, healthy objective. Like, things shouldn't be fair just based on age. Like, you're going to come into new opportunities and privileges earlier, there's going to be differences based on gender, differences based on temperament, like so many things. We laugh a lot with parents and say, you know, we just say fair is a place with final cakes and cotton candy. That's what fair is.

Speaker 3:
[28:00] Oh, my ex, okay, my ex-husband says that.

Speaker 1:
[28:04] No way.

Speaker 3:
[28:04] Yes, he does.

Speaker 1:
[28:06] How does that make you feel?

Speaker 3:
[28:08] Well, I just had a little tingle through my body.

Speaker 1:
[28:10] I'm like, ah! Wait, that's so good though, because the only response I think I heard growing up is like, life's not fair. And that's not, it's not very helpful. I mean, it's true. But I don't know that it like helps regulate anybody.

Speaker 3:
[28:28] Yeah, because a script is helpful. I love a script. Speaking of, my ex-husband even called me out on it. We were on a therapy call for one of our kids, like with her therapist, and it was just this week. And I said, is there a script for that? And Ben, that's his name. He's on the other end of the line. He's like, she loves a script. And I do, I love having a script in my back pocket. So that could be the script. You can say it one more time for everybody.

Speaker 2:
[28:58] Fair is a place with funnel cakes and cotton candy. And I think we can follow it with some good empathy, which I think is always a win with kids, adolescents, and adults for that matter. It's hard when things don't feel fair. I think it's great to acknowledge that with kids where they feel seen and that it is hard to navigate those moments. In fact, if we were to circle back to the very first question when you all said, how do you feel, can I just say I feel jealous because your studio is amazing. I can't stop thinking about how not great ours looks. And it's like, doesn't it feel fair that we don't have a really great studio?

Speaker 3:
[29:32] Well, fair is a place for funnel cakes and cotton candy.

Speaker 2:
[29:36] You helped me out. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[29:38] Look at you. You learn so fast.

Speaker 3:
[29:40] Yeah. Well, no. Again, I'm fancy saying it for a long time. That reminds me though, I think Kat and I gave our feelings, but we didn't get feelings from our guests because we're not used to having guests. So we would love to know your feeling of the day. We used to have a song that we would sing with it, but listeners got annoyed, so.

Speaker 1:
[29:58] And our producer, Houston. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[30:00] He was like, y'all should probably stop the song.

Speaker 1:
[30:02] He said, I've been cutting this, you guys are singing just so you know. And I was like, what?

Speaker 3:
[30:08] Yeah, because we don't really edit. I mean, if he's editing anything, it's very minor. Like he doesn't, there's not real, we do give him full like executive decision or like if something needs to be done, but pretty much we just go with the flow and trust his judgment. And we don't go back and listen to anything. So we were like, what the? He's been cutting out our singing and we didn't even know it. He's like, trust me. So we would love to know your feeling of the day. So we would love to know your feeling of the day.

Speaker 2:
[30:51] Well, that's mine, Jealous. This studio is incredible, really incredible.

Speaker 3:
[30:57] Well, I've learned from Kat, well, envy and jealous is information. It's not necessarily, we always, I feel like you said this before, like I always thought, oh, we shouldn't be jealous or envious, but we can also use it as information of what our desires are and not have any hard feelings, no resentment, yes. But just information of, I would like that for myself one day. So, I love that.

Speaker 2:
[31:23] I love that you added that in.

Speaker 3:
[31:25] Well, Kat taught me.

Speaker 1:
[31:27] I can't take credit for the studio because that was all you.

Speaker 3:
[31:29] Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[31:30] Good job. Great job.

Speaker 3:
[31:33] Sissy, your feeling of the day.

Speaker 4:
[31:34] Well, when we walked in, we found out we were your first guests ever. So I just feel so grateful and honored.

Speaker 3:
[31:40] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[31:41] Those are my feelings.

Speaker 3:
[31:42] I love that. Okay, next question. We are coming up on summer break. So a listener sent in, what are some ways you can increase the capacity of kids over summer break?

Speaker 4:
[31:54] One of our very favorite things we did in the Capable Book is we came up with 100 capable building exercises for littles, middles and olders is how we specified. And so there's a whole blueprint in the book for things parents can do. But I would say, if you don't have the book, then sit down with your kids and dream up some things together of things that would be fun, that they would be excited about, that would feel adventurous, but also things like pulling up to the convenience store where you can see them walk in to the counter and check out themselves and see them walk back to the car. Just what are some places they can stretch and you can stretch?

Speaker 3:
[32:35] Yeah, I like that. I love seeing those little videos. People even post them, I don't do it to post it, but I have seen parents do that and post it when the kids go in and when they get back in the car, they have their pack of gum and they are so proud of themselves.

Speaker 1:
[32:52] I imagine the parent on the inside being like, good job because I feel like that would be so scary the first time you let your kid do something like that.

Speaker 4:
[32:59] Yes. I have an interesting family dynamic which maybe knows, but I have a sister who's 16 years younger. It's just the two of us. Evidently, when my parents told me they were pregnant, I said, I didn't know you all did that anymore. When I was 16, so she has a seven and four-year-old, she has seven four-year-old boys and they live about three blocks from me. We lost our mom a few years ago, so I get to do a lot of life. I'm like aunt and grandmother and all the things. The seven-year-old is now taking himself to the bathroom at restaurants. Every time as a therapist, I think about every horror story I've ever heard. So parents who are listening, grandparents, we get it. It is anxiety-provoking to let your kids take age-appropriate risks. But his face is just like you were describing. Every time he comes back, you can tell he just feels like, I did something really cool. I was really independent. It's just so good for him.

Speaker 1:
[33:52] Well, that's good for you to hear. I like the way you said that. It's anxiety-provoking to watch your kids take age-appropriate risks. Yes. What you're feeling is normal. If you're feeling that that's normal, it doesn't mean don't do it. You're having an appropriate response for this new thing.

Speaker 4:
[34:08] I saw a little thing somewhere online that said when we feel nerves inside, we can just remember that it's our nervous system applauding for us doing something new.

Speaker 1:
[34:18] Oh, heck yes, I love that.

Speaker 4:
[34:19] Isn't that great?

Speaker 3:
[34:20] That is some good reframing. I love permission to feel the way that I'm feeling.

Speaker 4:
[34:24] The applause inside is the flutter.

Speaker 3:
[34:27] Okay, that's good stuff. Next question, which now I'm bummed I didn't grab because these are from the question box on Instagram and we love shouting out names, but I didn't grab the name. You can have the names. So I feel like this listener, dang, we love being like, Cindy from New Hampshire.

Speaker 4:
[34:46] You can just make it up.

Speaker 1:
[34:48] And then somebody's gonna be like, wait, that was my question.

Speaker 3:
[34:51] If you ask this, you know who you are. My kids are 20 and 23 and both in college. How do we parent and still treat them as adults?

Speaker 2:
[35:01] Great question, John from Idaho.

Speaker 3:
[35:05] I love that he did a guy. I was like, I'm 99% sure all these questions are from women, but okay, are from women, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:15] One thought I'd throw in the mix in response to that is, I think it's important to think about the role of development in this question, honestly, in all moments, but in this question, you know, most developmental theorists would say, girls are finished with adolescents sometime around 19 to 20, boys, it's 22 to 25. And I think that's such important information because I sit with parents of 17, 18-year-old boys all the time who are panicked and like, he does not have enough skill development in place in this area. I'm so worried he can't live on his own because of this. And the reality being that 17-year-old young man might have eight more years of development in front of him to finishing out that stage of development. And then if we factor in all the other incredible things that could be true for kids. We talk a lot about amazing kids with ADHD. There is inevitably going to be some space between their chronological age and their emotional age. And we want to give those amazing kids time to develop at their own pace. So let's factor all those things in and remember that even though they're in what we define as the young adult space, they're still developing people. And so, I think all of that is a backdrop to any decisions we're going to make. Now, acknowledging by that point in the game, we have less control and that's good, or we should have less control, I would say to that question. A lot of times, parents are still operating in the world as if they still have the same control, but figuring out what we can and can't leverage as that learning is happening. So, you know, I don't control, I didn't control any of my kids' bedtime when they went to college and I should not have been. So, they might have stayed up too late and there was a lot of learning. But when they came home over breaks to this question, you know, we would jokingly say to all the kids, you get to set your own bedtime there, the old people in the house go to bed around 10. So, if you guys are in the kitchen banging around and the dogs are all up, like, mom and I can't sleep. And since we pay the mortgage, we want to sleep, okay? So, figuring out how to navigate boundaries in that season when they're home, but allowing them to live out in the world with different rules of thumb.

Speaker 4:
[37:23] That's good.

Speaker 3:
[37:24] Love that.

Speaker 4:
[37:24] Me, too.

Speaker 3:
[37:25] This is another age question, but about chronological age and emotional age, because you were even talking about when we're fully developed. And even some 20-year-olds, some might be right where they should be as a 20-year-old, but then emotionally, they might be more like 14. And so sometimes that's tricky, which this question is from Cindy in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1:
[37:51] A lot of Cindy's.

Speaker 3:
[37:52] Did I already have a Cindy? You know Cindy's my default. I always go to Cindy, obviously. Okay. Tina in Tallahassee. I love alliteration too. My daughter is 14, but emotionally she's younger. Should I treat her as being 14 or her emotional age?

Speaker 4:
[38:13] I would start with the why she feels younger emotionally, because I think if it's a reason like neurodivergence, we're going to slow it down a little and we're not going to try to, we're going to think about where she is genuinely and move a notch ahead, just like one step ahead rather than from if she's acting like an 11 year old jumping to 14. If she's just immature, then I would say go ahead and expect things of her in terms of responsibility, behavior, conversations, relationship, beyond where she is right now, more like a 14 year old. And exposure, keep her at 11. So I would think about delaying screens longer if there's a lot of immaturity. I would think about being more restrictive in terms of what you allow her to watch to be down to earth.

Speaker 3:
[39:08] Do y'all have a recommended screen time?

Speaker 1:
[39:12] Or a recommended, when do they get a phone?

Speaker 3:
[39:16] Are they capable of age? I've never seen two people who talk a lot for a living go so quiet. Sissy, David, are y'all scared?

Speaker 2:
[39:28] Can you go first?

Speaker 4:
[39:28] Sure, I'll jump in after you.

Speaker 2:
[39:30] Okay. Two thoughts I had to that really important question is, we are huge advocates of parents reading Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation. I just think it should be a required read for thinking about the animal of technology in any capacity. And whether you agree or disagree with Jonathan's recommendations, he has collected the best data we have access to at this point in time in history and made some really great recommendations around devices and access. And as parents are thinking about kids even younger, the American Academy of Pediatrics has a great tool on their website called the Family Media Time Calculator that you plug in your child's age, you plug in how many hours a week they're in school, the amount of time they spend doing extracurricular activities, and it generates a number based on pediatricians. So this is not just somebody's opinion, but folks who have a lot of wisdom and expertise in terms of child development.

Speaker 3:
[40:28] Where do we get that?

Speaker 2:
[40:29] The American Academy of Pediatrics, the AAP, and...

Speaker 1:
[40:33] I was writing the same things you are, but at the bottom. We're taking the same notes.

Speaker 3:
[40:38] Kat and I have just a little behind-the-scenes baseball. Kat and I keep a Google Doc open all the time, and we're constantly adding to it, and that's how we prep for episodes. And so in here, I want to make sure to also have it in the show notes for people so they can go reference it, but also I want to go plug in some numbers. I mean, I know it's Pediatric Society, but I want to enter for myself. Is there a door to shut up? That's so good. So you said the American Academy of Pediatric Society.

Speaker 2:
[41:05] It's the American Academy of Pediatrics, and it's a family media time calculator. And what I always encourage parents to think about is, when it generates that number, just consider that as a starting point. Like I've known parents who are like, wow, that's actually more hours than I feel comfortable with, I'm gonna dial that down, or some who are like, I'm not giving enough, I should probably be a little more flexible. So I think it just gives you a good tool to begin thinking wisely with folks who have a lot of expertise in child development in mind in terms of screen time. What would you add to that?

Speaker 4:
[41:40] Well, in terms of when, I mean, we get that question all the time. And our rule of thumb, because we so strongly believe in parenting community, you need a group of like-minded people you're doing all things in life with, so that when your child says, I'm the only one, then you have automatic backup. You know, well, the Smiths aren't doing that yet either, and neither are the Joneses. But what we will tell parents is, you don't want to be the first in terms of your community, because your child is going to be perceived as, not that we use the word fast anymore, but cutting edge. You do not want your child to be cutting edge. But you also don't want to be the last in all things technology, because they're often going to sneak their way to it. And our job is to teach kids to use technology responsibly. That's our job. And so what we will say to parents is, be the next to last. Genuinely.

Speaker 1:
[42:30] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[42:30] Like phones, emails, all the things. Pay attention and we'll have parents come into your offices and say, I heard you all and really pretty much everybody in their class has whatever device it is, so we decided it's time. And that way they're still learning while they're under your roof, versus we're not doing that till they graduate from high school. Well, then you can't help them pick up the pieces.

Speaker 1:
[42:51] Yeah, and what you said that they're going to be more sneaky then, especially if you're waiting that long. It's like literally all their friends have that and they're missing out on like social aspects of all that too.

Speaker 4:
[43:02] Well, I was teaching a class on technology at an event one time and there was this man, I could tell I was making really angry as I was talking about this kind of letting the rope out gradually and then you pull it in and there's a Q&A time, which we no longer do maybe for this reason. And he got the microphone and he stood up and he goes, I don't have a question, I need to say something. And he said, I have five children and let me tell you that technology is not a child's God given right. And if your child is on the Internet, go home and shut it down. The first time, and he was still screaming the whole time. He said the first time he let his son get on the Internet on his phone was driving to his high school graduation. And the first time he let him send a photo from his phone was his high school graduation driving there. And then he screamed again, if your child is on the Internet, go home and shut it down. And it was a Sunday school class. And I was, I didn't even know what to do. So I was like, let me pray for you all. But I immediately thought, can you imagine that kid had zero freedom, may have a senior year. And August, can you fathom what he was into? I mean, it's just so scary for them not to have any awareness, oversight, anything once he's gone. And so really to think about how do you let the rope out gradually and pull it back in while you can and while you can help him work through it.

Speaker 1:
[44:24] Yeah, I love it. Also, that's terrifying.

Speaker 4:
[44:27] Terrifying.

Speaker 1:
[44:29] I would also shut down the Q&A.

Speaker 3:
[44:30] And you are going on tour, which we'll talk about in just a minute. But I imagine that it's clear there's no Q&A. Right, we're right. We can tell you stories.

Speaker 1:
[44:42] I guess the only way to do that right would be to have, you'd have to get your questions approved before, but then somebody could go rogue.

Speaker 4:
[44:48] Yeah, right. So we've had some rogue.

Speaker 1:
[44:51] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[44:52] This one is a good one. My husband is still picking out my kids' clothes so the kids don't mess up the drawer. What do I tell my husband? Because clearly this is a mom that thinks that the kid's capable. Obviously, picking out their clothes. And so I guess the husband's a little OCD-ish. Maybe we can't diagnose, but he's got some control issues. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[45:19] I would first say to that mom, you can make David and Sissy the bad guys in this scenario and say even back to the great question we talked about a little bit earlier, if just I think one of the greatest gifts we can give the kids we love is to do our own work. And so I would, with a lot of respect and grace, I'm going to challenge that dad to say, I wonder if that's not more about you than anything, and where might it be standing in the way of the independence, the autonomy, all the good things you want to build into the kids you love. And back to our question of, questions of what am I currently doing that they could be doing for themselves, I would put that in that category. So let's think about what some baby steps in that direction would look like. And to that dad, back to our conversation earlier, what could you be doing with your own discomfort in that moment? But particularly if they just come parading out in the house and you're thinking, oh my goodness, that's what you picked out. Like, what could you be doing to work that through on your own for the sake of moving through a relationship with your kids and showing up and being more of who you want to be?

Speaker 4:
[46:23] I have my nephews come and spend the night, if I'm in town, once a weekend. We call them bunkin parties because I grew up in Arkansas and we didn't call them sleepovers, we called them bunkin parties, which is way cuter, don't you think?

Speaker 3:
[46:33] Yeah, like you're bunkin up.

Speaker 4:
[46:34] Yeah, but I might lean a little towards this dad myself and I literally will say to myself 12 times while they're there, the mess doesn't matter, the mess doesn't matter, it's become one of my mantras, the mess doesn't matter.

Speaker 3:
[46:46] Oh, I might need that.

Speaker 1:
[46:48] I feel like I have a little bit of that in me too, where I'm like, oh, if we're painting, I'm like, maybe just paint more on the thing we're painting. When it's like, I can clean that up. And if I can't, if something gets on the table, like whatever, I'll remember that time I was painting with my nieces.

Speaker 3:
[47:03] The mess doesn't matter, T-M-D-M.

Speaker 1:
[47:08] How do we make that into a word?

Speaker 3:
[47:10] We love an acronym. Wait, why am I talking? Okay, so to that listener, we didn't give her a fake name, but send your husband this episode. And we say it with love, like husband, if you are listening and you are worried about the messed up drawer, you heard Sissy here, she is an expert and she's like, I am that way too and I have to remind myself, the mess doesn't matter because your child figuring out how to get dressed and being capable. And then also guide him on how would you like for him to take care of his drawer? I also know I say drawer weird. Okay, final question and then I want to do rapid fire with y'all. How can I get my kids to be more empathetic towards others? Final question, and then I want to do rapid fire with y'all. How can I get my kids to be more empathetic towards others?

Speaker 4:
[48:22] Ooh, that's a great question.

Speaker 3:
[48:25] Some adults listen as well.

Speaker 4:
[48:27] We really talk about empathy being like a muscle that we have to build and exercise, and I think opportunities to give them to build empathy with littles, even a love. Have y'all read Wonder? The book Wonder, I've seen the movie. Oh, I've got to read the book. It's incredible.

Speaker 3:
[48:44] And there's a movie?

Speaker 4:
[48:45] Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:
[48:46] The book's amazing, the movie's amazing.

Speaker 1:
[48:49] I feel like, is that a, did that come out recently?

Speaker 4:
[48:51] No, it's kind of old.

Speaker 3:
[48:52] Okay, well, so would kids like it?

Speaker 4:
[48:54] Yes, yes, absolutely, and it tells the story from the perspective of three different characters throughout the book or movie. I think it's three, and I think doing something like that when you're sitting at an airport, what do you think that guy's story is? Where you're helping them learn to take perspective of somebody else. And then obviously, circling back to that idea of moving outward that we talked about before, anytime we can give them opportunities to give, to see people who are experiencing a different life than we are, who are in need in some way that we can step in and they can see their life walked out in a way that they're not experiencing. I think opportunities to give are one of the best builders. What would you add?

Speaker 2:
[49:39] I think the only thing I would add is, it's important to acknowledge, as the four of us have this conversation, that there's a fifth creature present in our conversation right now, too, as part of our podcast. We haven't talked a lot about Kara's presence in this room. Kara, forgive me.

Speaker 3:
[49:56] She's offended.

Speaker 2:
[49:58] She should be. Kara from Nashville.

Speaker 3:
[50:01] Just like Kara. It is spelled K-A-R-A like Kara, but do y'all know, you know, what's Superman's name at work?

Speaker 4:
[50:08] Clark Kent.

Speaker 3:
[50:09] Right. Do you know Supergirl's name?

Speaker 4:
[50:11] No.

Speaker 3:
[50:12] It's Kara.

Speaker 4:
[50:13] Oh.

Speaker 3:
[50:13] So when she is at her day job, she is Kara. And when my fifth...

Speaker 1:
[50:18] Wait, is her name Supergirl or is it Superwoman? Is it Supergirl?

Speaker 3:
[50:21] Supergirl.

Speaker 1:
[50:22] I've never seen it.

Speaker 3:
[50:22] Isn't it?

Speaker 1:
[50:23] I just want to imagine her name was Superman.

Speaker 4:
[50:25] Which is kind of concerning.

Speaker 1:
[50:26] Hello. Why is it a man and then a girl?

Speaker 2:
[50:30] Great question.

Speaker 3:
[50:31] I never thought about this. And now we have to write letters. Okay. Well, Supergirl, again, when my kids first got here, they didn't know a lot of English. So we had way too much scrim time, guys. Okay. This is the American Pediatric Calculator Society. We're out. No. But we would put the subtitles on. So honestly, that was part of our process, because they could watch the show, see the subtitles and be like, English. And so we watched a lot of Supergirl, and they were obsessed with it. And right when they got here, I had a dog, we had a Rottweiler named Josie and I loved her and I was so excited for them to meet her. They arrived in December. In February, Josie was diagnosed with cancer. And then we had to put her down in February. Like it was rapid.

Speaker 4:
[51:31] I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3:
[51:34] And well, it was just devastating because they just got here in their new home with their new dog and they were like, we're Josie has to go. Bye. Bye. So that was one of the first like really awkward things as parents when they got here. But Kara was, we waited several months and then we fostered Kara and then we decided to adopt her. She has a traumatic past. She was tied up at some house for like a year. So she has a lot of anxiety, which is why she is in this room. She is always with me, pretty much by my side or anybody at all times. She does not like to be left alone and she can be very anxious at times. So when we were trying to think of names for her, they were like, Supergirl. In my mind, I'm like, maybe you all aren't quite yet capable to name a dog. Because I just didn't want to be like, Supergirl. I'm a park.

Speaker 1:
[52:34] Supergirl, come here.

Speaker 3:
[52:35] Hey, Supergirl, are you hungry? Supergirl, come here. Supergirl.

Speaker 1:
[52:39] No, Supergirl.

Speaker 3:
[52:42] So then I thought, the next best thing would be, well, wait, what's her Clark Kent type name? And it's Kara. So we ended up, that is how we got Kara's name.

Speaker 2:
[52:52] What an incredible pivot.

Speaker 4:
[52:54] That is so.

Speaker 2:
[52:54] As wisdom, as wisdom on a mom's part.

Speaker 3:
[52:58] So they still got to name the dog. Yes. Sometimes maybe that's a little thing for parents is like, our kids, maybe they're not quite ready for one thing and we don't want to totally control the situation or take it away, but we doctor it a little bit.

Speaker 4:
[53:12] Well, can I say that was wise because my dog, I got to pick the first name and my nephew picked the middle name, so her name is Patch's Chocolate Bar. Which she has now eaten and been to the emergency bed.

Speaker 2:
[53:28] Chocolate Bar is the middle name.

Speaker 3:
[53:32] This is probably totally inappropriate, but I'm going to say it anyway because it's fun. Have you ever done that game where you combine the street you grew up on as a kid and your dog and it's like your stripper name? Okay, so let's play. I am... Okay, so I grew up on Pinehurst and my first dog was Trixie. So we'll call it stage name. My stage name is Trixie Pinehurst.

Speaker 1:
[54:01] Trixie's a good one. I grew up on Simmons Lane and my first dog was Bridget. So I'm Bridget Simmons, which I think is a... That's a stage name. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[54:10] All right.

Speaker 1:
[54:11] Sissy?

Speaker 4:
[54:12] My first dog was Blue and I grew up on Hidden Valley. So what would I be?

Speaker 1:
[54:17] Blue Hidden or Blue Valley?

Speaker 3:
[54:20] Blue Hidden Valley.

Speaker 1:
[54:21] Blue Hidden Valley.

Speaker 3:
[54:23] It's so mysterious. Okay, David.

Speaker 2:
[54:26] I grew up on Lewis Avenue. My first dog was Susie. So Lewis Susie or Susie Lewis? Susie Lewis.

Speaker 1:
[54:32] Susie Lewis.

Speaker 2:
[54:34] That works.

Speaker 3:
[54:35] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[54:36] All right.

Speaker 2:
[54:38] You were coming to comfort me as I shared that.

Speaker 1:
[54:41] She was like, sorry about my mom.

Speaker 3:
[54:43] I know. So I derailed us, David, which is common. I need to wait to why am I talking? You were mentioning that Kara was in here. We have a fifth guest. So what was your point, if you remember?

Speaker 2:
[54:57] We are huge advocates of families having pets, and the tool for teaching empathy that they are. Beyond, I mean, it's astounding to us, the number of parents who will report like, I'm struggling so much in seeing empathy show up in their relationship with their sibling, but I see it with their pet and it gives me hope. It reminds me it's in there, and I've just got to extract more of that. So I think the way kids care for pets, the way kids, even to hear you tell a story about loss, show up there, I think kids learn a lot about how to navigate grief through pets as well. The very thing I'm doing right now of petting your dog, we talk so much about how pets help kids regulate themselves too. I mean, it has this extraordinary calming effect on us. So we're huge advocates for a thousand reasons, but I think to the question about empathy, they're great tools for teaching empathy.

Speaker 3:
[55:52] Love that. Okay, rapid fire time. Toddler tantrum, write it out or redirect?

Speaker 4:
[56:02] Give them tools.

Speaker 2:
[56:05] Brilliant.

Speaker 3:
[56:07] What would you say?

Speaker 2:
[56:07] I'm going to echo that.

Speaker 3:
[56:08] Okay. So yeah, these are therapists, so they may have other choices besides what I'm giving them. But screen time, genuine concern or overhyped worry?

Speaker 4:
[56:20] Genuine concern.

Speaker 3:
[56:21] Feelings chart, life changing or overrated?

Speaker 4:
[56:25] Life changing.

Speaker 3:
[56:26] Who needs more therapy, kids or parents?

Speaker 4:
[56:29] Parents. Parents.

Speaker 3:
[56:30] Oh. I thought they were gonna go both.

Speaker 1:
[56:34] So if you're like, I have to send my child to therapy, would you recommend that parent, if they're sending a child to also seek out help at that same time, as like a rule of thumb, or is it depends for you?

Speaker 4:
[56:46] I think it's probably an it depends for me.

Speaker 1:
[56:48] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[56:48] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[56:49] But we couldn't tell you how often we've sat with parents over the years who brought kids in, and we needed to say in a strong but hopefully caring way, I think this is work you all need to do first.

Speaker 1:
[56:59] Yeah. Well, you see that in adults too, because I work with just adults, but a lot of times I'll work with a loved one too. It's part of the process. And it's like, yes, I will work with this person that you are recommending needs therapy, and you might also want to seek out some help the same way I think the parent child relationship is.

Speaker 3:
[57:17] Strict bedtime or go with the flow?

Speaker 4:
[57:21] Strict bedtime.

Speaker 3:
[57:23] All the time?

Speaker 1:
[57:26] Amy's like, you're not giving me the answers I need.

Speaker 3:
[57:29] So you're saying we need to be consistent.

Speaker 4:
[57:32] It depends on the age, but largely.

Speaker 1:
[57:35] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[57:35] I think we have some flexibility. Yes. Summers, Christmas.

Speaker 4:
[57:39] Yes, of course.

Speaker 3:
[57:39] Yeah, of course. Yeah. Tuesdays. No, I'm pretty good at it, but my ex-husband to that point, he is much more, he goes to bed and probably not the same time every night, but wakes up at the same time. He's military background. He's very regimented like that. And I catch myself being like with our kids being 50% at my house and 50% his, I'm like, I know that he is having Stevenson in bed at the same exact time every night. So she was older, so that's totally different. But I catch myself sometimes even saying to Stevenson, hey, like what time you want to go to bed at night? And then I'm like, why did I just ask that? Like what in the world? Like it's always, you know, 930. But some nights if maybe he's got to get up a little bit earlier for something, I might need to switch it to nine. And I need to just as the parent go to him and say, I know bedtime is normally 930. Tonight it's nine. We're waking up earlier tomorrow or you have to, you have an appointment. So and then walk, period. Yes. I can't believe I've been parent for a while. I swear to you, just the other day, I legit said, so what time do you want your bedtime to be tonight? What's up? But sometimes I go to bed before him because I wake up so early. So sometimes I'll be in bed at eight o'clock and then I have to just trust that he is. And we I do. He does set an alarm. And then my room is close enough to his where I hear it. And I'll look at my clock. I'll be like, okay, you know, he didn't cheat the system here. So I we do have a certain level of trust that sometimes I feel like I'm asking him because I think he genuinely might know like, hey, yeah, is 915 cool or not, you know, I don't know. This is supposed to be rapid fire. Talking it out or taking a break first?

Speaker 4:
[59:29] Taking a break first.

Speaker 3:
[59:31] Apologizing to your kids. Does that build respect or confuse them?

Speaker 4:
[59:37] Build respect.

Speaker 3:
[59:39] Gentle parenting or old school parenting?

Speaker 2:
[59:42] Can we pick an option in the middle? Capable parenting. Amen.

Speaker 3:
[59:49] Capable the book now available.

Speaker 2:
[59:53] Best shout out we have ever had. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[59:58] One more story at bedtime. No problem or absolutely not.

Speaker 4:
[60:03] It depends.

Speaker 2:
[60:04] Yeah, I'm going to go in. It depends on that, too.

Speaker 3:
[60:06] We like that. We love it depends. Kids are more resilient than we think or more fragile than we admit?

Speaker 4:
[60:15] More resilient than we think.

Speaker 3:
[60:17] Therapy should start young or wait until there's a problem?

Speaker 2:
[60:23] I'm going to say it depends on that.

Speaker 3:
[60:25] I love closing on it depends. I want to hear Sissy and David say it in unison. It depends. Nailed it. Okay, so you do have your book capable. That's what we've been talking about. And we'll link everything in the show notes about that. But what about this tour?

Speaker 4:
[60:47] We are so excited. We're doing the eight city tour the last week of April, first week of May and hopefully coming to where you are.

Speaker 3:
[60:55] Rattle them off.

Speaker 4:
[60:56] Yes. Oh, well, I can't.

Speaker 2:
[60:58] Starting out in Nashville.

Speaker 4:
[60:59] Yep.

Speaker 3:
[61:00] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[61:00] Atlanta.

Speaker 2:
[61:02] Raleigh-Durham.

Speaker 4:
[61:03] Birmingham.

Speaker 2:
[61:05] Oklahoma City.

Speaker 4:
[61:07] Houston.

Speaker 2:
[61:07] Dallas.

Speaker 4:
[61:08] Austin. We got it.

Speaker 1:
[61:10] Wow. Good job, guys.

Speaker 3:
[61:11] Austin, I love. That's my home city.

Speaker 2:
[61:14] Oh, it's a great city.

Speaker 4:
[61:15] Tell us your favorite Mexican food there.

Speaker 3:
[61:17] Amatso Rancho.

Speaker 4:
[61:18] Been there. It's so good.

Speaker 3:
[61:20] You got to get the Bob Armstrong dip.

Speaker 4:
[61:22] Yes. We did it.

Speaker 3:
[61:23] Okay. So y'all already are in the know. My sister was a waitress there when she was in high school. Listen, my friends, even when I go back, we all meet there as adults now. We're like, oh, coming to town. Where are we going to go? Amatso Rancho. So for us, it's also nostalgic. So I know there are other fabulous Mexican restaurants all over Austin, don't get me wrong, but Amatso Rancho on Lamar, it's just always going to have a special place in my heart.

Speaker 1:
[61:48] What's in that dip?

Speaker 3:
[61:49] Well, it's queso, but the Bob Armstrong dip adds guac, meat, like ground beef. You can add black beans, jalapenos, a lot, like it's just a whole mixture.

Speaker 1:
[61:59] I need to go to Austin.

Speaker 4:
[62:01] Queso compuesto.

Speaker 1:
[62:02] Oh, okay. Why don't you just go there?

Speaker 3:
[62:04] Queso compuesto, well no, fly to Austin.

Speaker 1:
[62:08] What brings you to Austin? This dip.

Speaker 3:
[62:10] I am here for the Bob, some Bob dip. Well, thank y'all so much for being our first guest.

Speaker 2:
[62:16] Thank you for having us.

Speaker 4:
[62:18] What a fun afternoon.

Speaker 3:
[62:19] Yeah, so fun. Everything will be in the show notes. You can find them on Instagram. David, you don't have an Instagram or what?

Speaker 1:
[62:28] I don't.

Speaker 3:
[62:29] So just kidding. You can find David on Sissy's Instagram, which I will link in the show notes along with Raising Voids and Girls. I just, yeah, it's good for you.

Speaker 1:
[62:39] I was going to say, aren't you a little jealous?

Speaker 3:
[62:41] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:41] We talk about all the time. We just want to delete it all.

Speaker 4:
[62:44] Yeah, delete it.

Speaker 2:
[62:45] Get it.

Speaker 1:
[62:46] So you don't even have the app. Like you don't even get in your podcast. Gosh, what freedom you have.

Speaker 2:
[62:50] Sissy has to tell me what's happening in the world all the time.

Speaker 4:
[62:52] I'll send him things and then he'll respond and say, I had Connie show me what he had to send. That's awesome.

Speaker 3:
[62:57] Have you ever had it?

Speaker 2:
[62:58] Never had it.

Speaker 3:
[62:59] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[63:00] I had Facebook for a little short window of time.

Speaker 1:
[63:04] So what do you do with your free time?

Speaker 2:
[63:07] I'm petting my dog.

Speaker 1:
[63:08] Okay. Some healthier.

Speaker 2:
[63:10] A lot of time outdoors.

Speaker 3:
[63:12] He reads Theo of Golden.

Speaker 2:
[63:13] I get so excited when you're talking about Theo. Can I recommend an expert?

Speaker 4:
[63:17] Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2:
[63:18] Have you read The Correspondent?

Speaker 3:
[63:20] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[63:21] She's read both of those and I haven't read either of them.

Speaker 4:
[63:24] Oh, Kat, you got to have both.

Speaker 2:
[63:26] You know what I loved in thinking about that, when you were talking about Theo and I was talking about The Correspondent, thinking about The Correspondent, like two people in later chapters of life who figured out there's new things to learn. There's a new way of being in the world. And both those books illustrate that.

Speaker 1:
[63:41] She's been talking about The Correspondent for weeks. So, there's some validation that you... If anybody was doubting Amy's wrecks, like...

Speaker 3:
[63:48] Well, now I only communicate with Kat through letter. Every morning at 10 a.m., I sat down with my pen and paper. I so loved that book. My friend Claire told me before I read it, she said, when you finish it, it's gonna feel like a hug. And that was such a good description for how I felt when I finished it. Or even just while I was reading it since I already had that in my head. It was just so beautifully done. And then, yeah, encourage you and invoke something in you to bring back some of that old school correspondence and not be so, you know, I feel like we keep up with people because, oh, I commented on their story or we DMed the other day. And it's like, oh, wait, I could sit down and like, write a note to somebody.

Speaker 1:
[64:39] You know what else is making me think, and this is something I'm jealous of you of, is I think having Instagram and social media in general tricks your brain into thinking that you are supposed to keep up with everybody and everything and then I feel really guilty if I miss something or I feel bad because I see something that like really, we're not meant to know that much. When I went to my high school reunion, I knew whatever, there was no surprises. I knew who was married, I knew who had kids, I knew what job people had. So I'm missing some of that one wonder, but also it just is, we're not supposed to know about everybody.

Speaker 4:
[65:18] And everything happening in the world.

Speaker 1:
[65:20] I unfollowed everybody on my social media in 2020 and restarted.

Speaker 3:
[65:24] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[65:25] Because I was like, I care, but also do I need to know what these people that I met one time seven years ago, do I need to know what they're doing this weekend? No, I don't.

Speaker 3:
[65:36] So now, I did see this on social media. So, okay, we have to give it credit for me seeing this video because otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and it was really cool. But it was like someone who graduated high school in 1998, which I graduated in 99. So I was right in that window. But it was camcorder video of what the last day of school was like in 1998. And kids are going around the yearbooks, they're all signing like they're not going to see each other. It's like, this is our final day of school. And below it, it had kids finishing school now, what the last day of school is like. It just hits different because they know everyone's location. They know where everybody is. Everybody's on Snapchat. They literally through Snapchat, you can see the location of everybody. So you can see exactly where your friends are. You are keeping up with them. You know what they're doing. There wasn't like this summer break where you're going to go away and like do all of the things and maybe talk on the phone with your friend a few times or maybe go to camp. And yeah, it's to your point, it's just we keep up with so much that it makes it different.

Speaker 1:
[66:42] And it's so little at the same time, like so much, but then like the depth of it is different.

Speaker 3:
[66:47] Yeah, that came quarter footage from like, it just hit different for sure. And it made me want to, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[66:53] Throw your phone out the window.

Speaker 3:
[66:54] Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Just kidding. People are probably listening to this podcast on their phone, so thank you. All right, we thank you, David. Thank you, Sissy. And to our listeners, we hope wherever you are, you have the day.

Speaker 1:
[67:09] You need to have.

Speaker 3:
[67:10] Bye.

Speaker 1:
[67:10] Bye.