transcript
Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[00:45] Welcome one, welcome all to the Court of the Trashy Royals, where we assemble each week to reveal and revel in the tales of our betters, behaving badly. My name is Stacie and I cannot wait to find out the latest hot mess going down in the Restoration Court of Charles II, the merriest of monarchs. Alicia, what's up?
Speaker 4:
[01:06] Oh my goodness, good nobles, I can't wait to tell you what's up. Thank you for joining us today as we make it to the pent-ultimate episode of King Chuckles and His Many Merry Mistresses. We were introduced to Nell Gwyn last week, pretty woody Nell, who was having an excellent time, being the main squeeze of the king, poor queen Cathy of Berganza. I mean, be damned.
Speaker 3:
[01:29] The afterthought queen, I mean, for real.
Speaker 4:
[01:32] Poor Cathy. Nell Gwyn has been rolling as the king's main lady from 1668, 1672. Two kids Nell has by this point from the king, but hold up your horses here. In 1670, there is a new young tender girl at court, Louise. Louise and the king will take, I don't know, to a little bit of time a year or two to start this love affair. And oh boy, is Nell Gwyn head on the swivel for those two years. And so many years beyond that, maybe Louise is just a sweet kid. Maybe she's a sleeper cell spy for France.
Speaker 3:
[02:11] Dun, dun, wow.
Speaker 4:
[02:12] You don't know.
Speaker 3:
[02:13] You don't know.
Speaker 4:
[02:13] But today we're going to do our best to unpack it.
Speaker 3:
[02:15] Like Charles knew anything about the affairs of state. And he's the last person she should try to seduce.
Speaker 4:
[02:22] Going to help them negotiate with France. So before we begin our story today, we do have some shout outs to give to our latest Good Noble supporters over at patreon.com/trashyroyalspodcast.
Speaker 3:
[02:34] Thank you so much for joining us, Annabel B, Kimberly B, Emily M and Rajah C.
Speaker 4:
[02:40] Huge thanks to y'all new folks, huge thanks to our sustaining supporters as well. We really do appreciate your support over on patreon, where you're getting early and ad free episodes for two bucks a month with an occasional bonus thrown in too. Today it is to Louise, sweet or scheming? What trouble does she stir up? Let us in on to the court of Charles II to meet his newest lady and the love triangle this creates. Oh, this story, sweet, sweet, sweet, little sleeper spy, Louise. Louise is born September 5th, 1649, into a kind of genteel poverty sitch over in Brittany. Her family has a good name, some definite titles, but no cash. Louise is the package, though. She's good-looking. I would say like the all-American girl, but she's not.
Speaker 3:
[03:58] But she's French.
Speaker 4:
[03:59] American, she's French, but she's baby-faced. Louise is also smart as a whip and has some kind of astute understanding of people and politics. Not surprised, she's a Virgo girl. Want to go ahead and just three-line a few dates for you? Louise is born in 1649. She will come to the court of Charles II in 1670, making her 21 and Charles 41.
Speaker 3:
[04:28] That's an age difference.
Speaker 4:
[04:31] 40, 41. Double, double the years.
Speaker 3:
[04:33] Double, double. Twice as old.
Speaker 4:
[04:36] You know, I always like to baseline the ages of what we are working with. So Louise de Kérouaille has a very important family in Brittany, and they are marrying in and out of other important families, and it is that name of the family that gets our fair Louise after her convent schooling by the nuns, of course, and after she is trained in etiquette and the arts and certain things an important girl from an important family would need to know. Louise, after she is done with school because of her family name and her scheming parents who have no problem with their daughter making this particular move, engineer it, in fact. Louise, we are going to send you to be a lady in waiting for the court of Henrietta Anne Stuart, who is the baby sister of Charles II.
Speaker 3:
[05:29] Okay.
Speaker 4:
[05:30] Henriette is married to Philippe I, the Duke of Orleans, baby brother of King Louis XIV. So I just want to back you up in their time frame. Henriette, the daughter, sister of Charles II, of course, is also the daughter of staunch mama Henrietta Maria.
Speaker 3:
[05:46] Sure.
Speaker 4:
[05:47] Who has been in France since, like, forever.
Speaker 3:
[05:50] Yeah, yeah, since, like, the Civil War was going on in the 1640s.
Speaker 4:
[05:54] Henrietta Maria fled there for safety with all of her kids while Charles I was still kicking.
Speaker 3:
[06:00] Sure.
Speaker 4:
[06:01] Henrietta Maria just picks herself up, resettles in France with the kids she's got, and, oh boy, mom certainly would want to have a daughter marry into that French family. Henrietta Anne Stuart and her husband and that whole story and the courtship and the relationship and the diplomatic ties are fascinating, but not our story today because it's so easy to take things off into a different direction depending on who is driving the cart. Today we're here for Louise, so she is in the court of Charles II's sister. Comes on in the court, 1668, as a lady-in-waiting. And Louise's parents kind of throw her into the sitch in the hopes that their daughter, Louise, at 18 years old, will capture the eye of King Louis XIV and become his mistress.
Speaker 3:
[06:54] Did it work?
Speaker 4:
[06:55] No, it did not work, but no worries, Louise is going to have another king in her future soon enough. Now again, whoa, this is history, seriously. Do you know about the Secret Treaty of Dover?
Speaker 3:
[07:11] Not off-hand.
Speaker 4:
[07:12] Okay, it's between England and France and there's a reason they call it a Secret Treaty. Charles needs cash, France is going to get some help with Charles supplying some regiments for all these battles. Secret Treaty, it's all really dicey. For this Secret Treaty of Dover, there's a diplomatic visit where Charles II sister Henriette and her court are going to go on over to Dover to make merry with her brother, see him, catch up on all the times, whatevs. It is here that Louise is sent over with Henriette to be in her retinue.
Speaker 3:
[07:48] Sure, part of the French delegation.
Speaker 4:
[07:50] 100% for the 1670 meeting at Dover. But all the diplomatic stuff is going down, but Henriette, bringing the young and fair Louise hasn't been feeling great for a few years now. Like, back in 1667, her health isn't all that great, and Henriette does come to England, but she's got a bail back home where she'll up and die in June of 1670.
Speaker 3:
[08:20] Wow.
Speaker 4:
[08:21] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[08:22] Well, that's too bad.
Speaker 4:
[08:23] Too bad. Lots of kids, though, with Philippe I. Again, I'll follow up on her story. She really is kind of a fascinating player in this. But, oh no, what is our fair Louise de Kérouaille to do now? Her attending, the ruler she's attending on no longer needs attending in quite that way.
Speaker 3:
[08:46] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[08:47] You don't have to worry, babe. The king is going to come through in the clutch.
Speaker 3:
[08:51] As he always does.
Speaker 4:
[08:52] For dear young Louise.
Speaker 3:
[08:54] For young women.
Speaker 4:
[08:57] Chuckles is like, oh no, my sister may be dead, but Louise, don't you worry. There are other ladies in waiting positions to be filled around the place. Have you met my wife Catherine of Braganza?
Speaker 5:
[09:11] My God.
Speaker 3:
[09:13] If you look up the phrase long suffering in the dictionary, there is a portrait of this poor woman, this poor queen.
Speaker 4:
[09:23] Poor Catherine. You know it's going to happen, right? So here Louise is, da da da da da da, coming back on over to England. I can't believe you're covering your mouth. You're laughing so hard. This is different though. Like her story really is incredible. So here we have Louise, da da da da da da, January 1671, coming on back to England. What on earth could happen next? We're going to find out right after our first break.
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Speaker 5:
[10:49] K-Pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal, and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?
Speaker 1:
[10:58] It's not a battle.
Speaker 6:
[10:59] So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
Speaker 2:
[11:03] It is an honor to share.
Speaker 5:
[11:05] No, it's our honor.
Speaker 7:
[11:07] It is our larger honor.
Speaker 6:
[11:09] No, really, stop.
Speaker 5:
[11:11] You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.
Speaker 1:
[11:17] And participate in McDonald's While Supplies Last.
Speaker 4:
[11:19] Thanks for coming on back, everybody. Here we have Louise, who has been sent with a specific mission from France over to the court of England to serve in the retinue of Cathy of Brugansa.
Speaker 3:
[11:33] Sure.
Speaker 4:
[11:34] Louise and the French King know each other. Louise and the diplomats that are working for the French King know each other. So Louise is being sent with a directive, so to speak, to make certain things happen in England for all of her French friends back in the motherland. Now here's the twist with Louise. She is so darn nice to long-suffering Catherine of Brugansa. She's respectful here in the beginning. She's dutiful, she's respectful. They will share the Catholic religion. So whereas Barbara Villiers, Barbara Palmer, Lady Castlemaine was kind of a jerk to Catherine of Brugansa.
Speaker 3:
[12:17] Yeah, she had a real cruelty streak. Real cruel.
Speaker 4:
[12:21] As we know, Nell Gwyn would never be elevated enough to show up for a lady in waiting position. And young Louise is everything you'd want in that position, right? So we haven't had a mistress be influential at court since Barbara Palmer. But Barbara mostly manifested herself in court and in England. She did not play internationally. Louise Young, fresh faced, is playing internationally. Hmm. But working for Cathy. So everything's going great. Oh, boy. Andrew Taylor has written a very good book called The Shadows of London, and he wrote an article in 2024 that I think does a great job describing how we get Louise and Chuckles together. Okay. So Louise is already caught, of course, the eye of Chuckles on that first diplomatic secret treaty of Dover visit. But here, Louise comes along in the winter of 71. Andrew Taylor writes, once in London, Louise caught the roving eye of the king almost at once. She was then just 21 and he was nearly twice her age. He laid siege to her.
Speaker 3:
[13:35] I'm sure he had to just tear himself away from matters of governance of the state.
Speaker 4:
[13:40] Hold on. And she, though friendless and dependent, resisted him for a whole year. She puts on the brakes, puts on the brakes. But there were other players in this game. From the start, her seduction was an affair of state. Charles had recently agreed to a controversial alliance with his cousin, Louis XIV of France. Don't forget their cousins. All a family affair. The French government was delighted by the possibility of installing a malleable young French woman in the king's bed. It would strengthen Charles' attachment to France. Moreover, pillow talk might be a useful source of intelligence, while also providing a discreet channel for the French to influence Charles in his hours of ease. Which he seems like he had a lot of.
Speaker 3:
[14:34] It really does seem like, again, I'm not sure he's the guy you need to influence to get stuff done in England.
Speaker 4:
[14:40] This is not speculation. The letters that passed between the French ambassador Colbert de Croce and the French Foreign Ministry are quite explicit. Louis XIV himself took an active interest in the business.
Speaker 3:
[14:57] She's a honeypot.
Speaker 4:
[14:58] She's a honeypot.
Speaker 3:
[14:59] She's a honeypot.
Speaker 4:
[15:00] She's a French honeypot. Coming on at 21 to seduce the two decades older king. Maybe. I mean, draw your own conclusions.
Speaker 3:
[15:10] It sounds like she's a honeypot.
Speaker 4:
[15:12] I think she is a honeypot, but she's also shrewd. She's so, so smart. She is, always has found a way to get what she wants and end up out on top. Virgo girl, right? So here I've got a little bit more. This is not from the direst, creepy peepy Sammy Peeps. This is from John Evelyn, who witnesses the long drawn out ritual of sexual conquest from afar. John Evelyn was a royalist to the bone, but his loyalty to Charles II was, you know, increasingly strained by the loush behavior of the king and his court. John Evelyn was not impressed by his first sight of the Queen's new maid of honor. This was in an entertainment for the young Prince William of Orange. John Evelyn will write in his diary November 1st, 1670. I now also saw that famed beauty, but in my opinion, of a childish, simple and baby face. Madame Wazelle Duh. This is a different saying of her name, Queer Eval, lately made of honor to Madame. Manette is actually what's written, which is the nickname that Henriette always had, Manette. And now to be so to the Queen. The French were not the only players in this cynical game. Lord Arlington, the most powerful man in England after the King, had been one of the architects of the French Alliance. It suited his purposes to work with Colbert de Croce to establish Louise in the King's bed.
Speaker 3:
[16:50] What a weird event that must have been. Because if, assuming the Duke of York was there, James, three English kings in a room together. I mean, obviously not at the same, not kings at the same time, but. Sure. Yeah, William of Orange. Yeah. There's a lot. Glorious revolution coming for you, James.
Speaker 4:
[17:11] There's a lot going on. So at last, we have all these schemers for Louise from the French side, for the English side. Finally, finally, it was arranged for Louise to join, or does it always happen, large house parties, at Euston Hall, which is Lord Arlington's palatial country house near New Market. The king and most of the court were already there in the neighborhood for horse racing.
Speaker 3:
[17:37] Sure.
Speaker 4:
[17:37] Like you do. Who among us? So it is difficult to establish the precise sequence of events that led to Louise's seduction. Not only are the sources fragmentary and sometimes contradictory, but as Dr. Porter crisply points out, her biographers, both French and English, have written a great deal of nonsense about Louise. Andrew Taylor will say about his fictional book, My Account in the Shadows of London is at least plausible, though much of it is necessarily invented. What are the facts that we can determine? John Evelyn was one of about 200 guests at Euston Hall when this is coordinated for Louise to meet the King. Not quite one of the inner circle, right? 200, pretty big group, but not that big. So John Evelyn witnessing this from afar, but close enough to know what's going on. His entry in mid-October 1671, he will record with a little bit of disapproval. You can hear it seeping through his tone here. John Evelyn writes, It was universally reported that the fair lady was bedded one of these nights, and the stocking flung after the manner of a married bride. I acknowledge she was for the most part in her undressed all day, and that there was a fondness in toying with that young wanton. Nay, t'was said, I was at the former ceremony, but tis utterly false. I neither saw nor heard of anything, though I had been in her chamber and all over that apartment late enough. It was myself observing all passages with curiosity enough. However, t'was with confidence believed that she was first made amiss, and they called those unhappy creatures with solemnity. So, October 1671 is when the bedding happened. Andrew Taylor's baby face had at least succumbed to the overwhelming pressures from those around her. Louis XIV signaled his gratitude by sending a diamond necklace to Lady Arlington, who had actively assisted in the plot.
Speaker 3:
[19:55] Honeypot.
Speaker 4:
[19:56] Honeypot. So here Louise, having caught the eye of the king after about a year bedded to the king, has Charles forgotten about Nell Gwyn?
Speaker 3:
[20:09] No.
Speaker 4:
[20:10] Not really, but Louise is his main squeeze. And Louise Wright is getting used by a lot of people in the court, men in England, men in France, and just like so many men we've seen at court in all of the centuries before us here, how can we use Louise to our advantage? Let me tell you just a few quick things here. Nell Gwyn is so mad about this. She does a few things. First up, her nicknames for Louise. Squintabella. Wow. Squintabella is number one. The other big nickname that Nell gives Louise is Weeping Willow. Because Louise is always crying about the place. Weeping Willow. Now the king, Charles, actually has a name that is meant with much more affection for sweet young Louise. The king will nickname her Fubbs, F-U-B-B-S, which is a term of endearment, complimenting her chubbiness. Okay.
Speaker 3:
[21:20] You know, we like what we like.
Speaker 4:
[21:22] We like what we like. Well, at the time, think about it. Chubby, plump women, that is the aesthetic.
Speaker 3:
[21:28] Sign of status, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[21:29] Man, I would have rocked it in the 1670s with my boobs falling out the place and my ample bosom and ample hippage. Come on, Barbara Palmer, I'll give you a run for your money. Seriously, I would have been great in the 17th century. Fubs loves the king. The king loves fubs. He loves Louise so much that even in like 1682, he will commission a new yacht called the HMY Fubs. Oh my God. Named in honor of his term of endearment nickname. As you can imagine, Louise is also the subject of a Peter Lilly portrait in these years as well. So Louise may be an innocent in all of this, but she knows how to play the game. She's very astute at using every advantage she has. She is a big influence at court, but just underneath the waves. Hey Stacie, let's go ahead and throw in our final break here. When we come back, we're gonna talk about Louise's navigation through this time at court and well, get her to about 1676 before we introduce our next player.
Speaker 3:
[22:45] All right, we'll be right back.
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Speaker 4:
[24:13] Thanks for coming on back, Louise. She's diplomatic. She understands power, dynamic. She, Louise, reminds me a little bit of Anne Boleyn. She's witty. She has banter. She gets by. She's young. She comes in with all that French elegance. So certainly she wouldn't look like a threat. She performs beautifully during this time, never a toe out of line. And Louise understands the way business is done. She's going to align herself with all the main players at court. All the while, like I say, underneath the waves, she always appears to show neutrality. Here, Louise and Charles spend a lot of time, you know, in secret. She's advising him. The pillow talk is really working. Louise is a good source of information. All going back to France and she is trusted by Charles. And again, the first one dipping her toe in international things. By 1672, as we know, Barbara Palmer is fully out of the picture with the I'll kill this child, even though it isn't yours. So we still got Nell Gwyn hanging around, but Babs is kind of out. It is in 1672, you know, after the bedding of Louise happens and she is laid siege by the king. First comes an affair, next comes a baby. You've got it. In 1662, Louise is going to deliver a son to Charles. This will be her, you know, only child her whole life. Well it could the one kid thing could have something to do with the fact that he gave Louise venereal disease in their time together, which might have affected her plans for having more future children.
Speaker 3:
[26:03] What a gift.
Speaker 4:
[26:05] Now, here's what I think is super, super fascinating. Nell Gwyn has already had two kids, with the king by this point, who do not have titles. Nell is making a pretty penny, right? But she's only got a leased house. The king has not bought a house for her. Her children have no titles, even though she's okay kind of financially. Louise, totally different situation. Maybe because of the love the king has for this manic pixie dream girl he's found, or maybe because she is a mistress in at court, he needs to elevate her a little bit different of a way. So she bears the king's illegitimate son, number eight or nine by this point, in 1672. And it is in 1673 that Louise is granted the titles of Baroness Petersfield, Countess of Ferrum, and Duchess of Portsmouth. Those three titles were all granted to her for life. Louise has also provided a big whole section of Whitehall Palace, like 24 rooms in Whitehall Palace that were far grander, far more superior than even the queen's rooms at the palace. Big deal, Louise, in the king's heart. The king's illegitimate son will also be created Duke of Richmond and Duke of Lennox just a few years later in 1675. Louise, I need to tell you, is always financially provided for well and overextended by the king. Going just a few years into the future, there is one year that her allowance was 136,000 pounds. Wow. Like, a million plus, like, I don't even know how you'd compute those dollars today. A lot of dough, a lot of dough. So Louise is in it. On the other side of this coin, remember Nell Gwyn is the heroine of folklore restoration London. Nell Gwyn is loved by the people. Louise is not, she's hated by Londoners. Like, we don't trust you, we think you're highly sus, super suspicious, certainly conspiracy theories. You've got to be a sleeper cell spy.
Speaker 3:
[28:29] Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[28:31] She's not liked so much in London. There is one other thing that, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:
[28:35] If it's the, I think I may know what you're heading for.
Speaker 4:
[28:38] I'm the Protestant whore? Uh-huh, okay. So, oh my gosh, Nell Gwyn's so mad. She stopped in a carriage one day and they're, because they want to go after the Wheeze. They think it's Louise.
Speaker 3:
[28:49] Like the public.
Speaker 4:
[28:50] The public.
Speaker 3:
[28:50] Okay, so they're like heckling her carriage.
Speaker 4:
[28:53] Correct. Okay. And here, Nell Gwyn, actress, never one to miss an opportunity. She's mistaken for Louise and she's like, pray good people be civil. I am the Protestant whore. Because Louise would be-
Speaker 3:
[29:08] Because they would be calling Catholic whore, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[29:10] Please do not be civil, y'all. I ain't even her. I'm the Protestant whore. Everybody get it right. Kind of an infamous story in-
Speaker 3:
[29:19] Sure.
Speaker 4:
[29:19] In the day.
Speaker 3:
[29:21] Pretty witty Nell Gwyn.
Speaker 4:
[29:23] Pretty witty Nell Gwyn is right. So I've got just a little bit more to get us to the precipice of where we're going. Now, when I say that Louise started out all kinds of nice to long suffering Cathy of Braganza, Cathy's always getting sick, right? Her health isn't real great. We had Charles trying to arrange another marriage for himself back in the decade before when Cathy got ill.
Speaker 3:
[29:49] I have some suspicions that he might have been having poison put into her food.
Speaker 4:
[29:54] I mean, we can't go that far. But in 1675, Cathy does take ill. And here, Louise will sort of, I don't know, disavow herself from her allegiance to her dear, fair queen, imagining her own coronation. I mean, that would be the logical step. If Cathy dies in 1675, Charles is coming to me. So Louise is really living in fantasy land with she will be the next Queen of England. And what a rise that would be. But alas, Cathy of Braganza survives. So here we are, 1676. The King has his main lady at court, Louise. He still hasn't altogether dropped Nell Gwyn, but Nell Gwyn, Protestant whore, has been very much put on the back burner by Catholic Corps, at least until 1676. We have so many more stories about Louise to talk about just in the coming years. The Popish plot, the jewelry that King Louis XIV will heap upon her for her political involvement and stuff through the years of Charles' last decade. You know, all of her services rendered to France, all decidedly dicey. But not as dicey as the other lady we are bringing into that last decade of Charles' life next week on our next episode of Trashy Royals. This is where we bring it really together. This whole 1668 to Charles' death period is mainly a triangle of women. Our new lady coming on, Hortense Mancini, and oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Things are just going to go off the rails. Next week where we bring in Hortense's story, weave it together with what Nell Gwyn is doing, weave it together with what Louise is doing to close out this series of Charles II and his merry mistresses we're getting so much merrier next week on Trashy Royals. Oh boy, I love this story. No, you didn't even understand the trash, the Hortenses. You thought Nell Gwyn was a little bit of fun. All right, here's Louise. Oh, just wait. Buckle up. Buckle up. I can't even wait to tell you this story. It was Hortense's story that got me into this whole darn series in the first place, because she is the ultimate of everything you'd ever want to know about. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3:
[32:36] OK, well, I can't wait. I love this. I love this, though. He got honeypotted by France.
Speaker 4:
[32:41] 100 percent. We'll talk about some more of the honeypotting. But again, sweet, innocent, squintabella, weeping willow, or sleeper cell spy for France.
Speaker 3:
[32:54] Spycraft. Same as it ever was.
Speaker 4:
[32:55] Same as it ever was. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in to this Trashy Royals episode. We can't tell you how delighted we are to have you on this particular journey with us for all your support on Patreon, for your awesome emails, for your kind reviews as well. Until we meet again, when and where we do, y'all know.
Speaker 3:
[33:17] Polish up that crown.
Speaker 4:
[33:19] Keep your eye on the bed, not the throne, cause that's where Charles is.
Speaker 3:
[33:23] Yeah, you're not gonna find that guy on a throne.
Speaker 4:
[33:26] I mean, unless they put the throne on the bed, you never really know.
Speaker 3:
[33:30] Yeah, I bet that would be a fun bedroom game.
Speaker 4:
[33:33] Big love, everybody. Catch you next time.
Speaker 3:
[33:35] Bye.
Speaker 4:
[33:36] Bye. Let's see.
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Speaker 4:
[34:16] Trashy Royals is lovingly created, written, produced, and distributed by Hemlock Creatives. That's us, Stacie and Alicia, your favorite Trashy independent podcasting outfit.
Speaker 3:
[34:27] Find out more about us, the podcast sources for each episode and advertising opportunities by visiting trashyroyals.com. What court gossip do you have to share? Direct those emails to trashyroyalspodcasts.gmail.com. And if you're looking for a little extra, patreon.com/trashyroyalspodcast is the place to go for early and ad-free content and bonus episodes too.
Speaker 4:
[34:50] Until next time, good nobles, keep it Trashy.