transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:01] Hey, Disgos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life? Just a touch? To get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to Disgraceland, the After Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the after party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of Disgraceland to the other. It's the backyard to dig into the dirt where our mission is to uncover the truth, to confront the myth, and to reclaim the story from music history. On this bonus episode, Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode died and came back to life. What he saw afterward has us asking, where do rock stars go when they die? The near-death experiences of the Depeche Mode frontman and other rock stars, plus your voicemails, texts, emails, comments, DMs, and as always, a whole lot of rosy. This is the podcast for the musically obsessed, the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best history is the history that gets buried. Disgraceland is where I tell the stories I didn't want told, the kind that you'll end up telling someone else. All right, Disgos, let's get into it. Where do rock stars go when they die? They don't go to heaven where the angels fly. In this week's episode of Disgraceland on Depeche Mode, part of the story focuses on the near-death experience of singer Dave Gahan. The time his heart stopped for two minutes after injecting a speed ball in 1996. Dave survived. And I love NDE stories, that's near-death experience. So, I love this story. I love NDE stories, near-death experience stories, because it's the greatest trick in storytelling at play. Where you tease the audience with the answer to a question that is just, they have to have the answer. They cannot have it. And this is the greatest question of all. What comes next? I read a book on near-death experiences once by a neurosurgeon, a neurosurgeon who claims to have had an NDE, an NDE, excuse me, himself. He suffered from a coma and he came back and he gave a scientific explanation of what he believes happened to him and where he went while he was clinically dead and before he returned. And he too, this neurosurgeon, Mike Dave Gahan, like I said, was clinically dead for a moment. Now, Dave Gahan told NME in 2013 that when he died, he was floating above his own body in the hospital room and looking down at his former self while paramedics went about trying to save his life. He said that the seconds of death that he experienced, for him anyways, they moved like hours. Time moved slow. He also said that he was screaming, but nothing was happening. And he believes this was his soul screaming out. And then came darkness, complete, all encompassing darkness. And just this blackness, this is the important part. It was frightening. Until Dave was eventually thrust back into his body before waking up alive. Now in the book, Proof of Heaven, a neurosurgeon's journey into the afterlife, Dr. Eben Alexander, this is the neurosurgeon I was talking about earlier. He went further in his near-death experience than Dave Gahan. His time of unconsciousness lasted longer than the Depeche Mode front man's. Dr. Alexander was in a coma for a full seven days. He describes his time on the other side as a place of unconditional love, a place where love permeates every element of your being, of being tapped into a universal consciousness, where telepathic communication between other souls is possible, where rich, vibrant colors dance with a divine light, a portal of sorts, a gateway to, as he describes it, the all-knowing, loving creator. It should be noted, by the way, that Dr. Alexander was an atheist, I believe, before he wrote this book. And he doesn't go into spirituality or religion or faith very much at all. That's not what this book is. Again, it's a very scientific take on his experience. He describes the afterlife as a place where one's soul continues to learn and grow and where everything is guided by the constant, overwhelming sensation of connectedness and love. That sounds fucking awesome. But it also sounds a little bit different than Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode's experience. He was experiencing an all-encompassing, frightening blackness. Now, I don't really know how Dr. Even Alexander lived his life. From what I remember from the book, and I read it, I don't remember how many years ago. It wasn't that long ago. From what I remember, he led a pretty normal life, not only as a doctor, but as a father, a husband, a brother, a son. His time and his coma was marked by family members who visited him, were caring for him. These are all the signs of a man who not only was loved, but who also most likely put a lot of love into the world. And my point is that we can probably assume that the doctor here didn't live a life of Depeche Mode debauchery and leave a trail of emotional hardship and personal relationship casualties along the way, as most rock stars do. And maybe this is why his afterlife experience, the doctor's, was so different from the rock stars, from Dave Gahan's. And then again, maybe he just wanted to sell a lot of books. I don't know. People say a lot of things, okay? Even doctors, but especially musicians. I just watched a video last night of Robbie Williams, by the way, claiming that he'd had sex with a reptile or with a woman who turned into a reptile in the middle of sex. I shit you not. He's dead serious. I've talked about this before, John Lennon, you know, we all love John Lennon, you know, man of... I don't need to qualify who John Lennon was. We all know who John Lennon was, right? But John Lennon went on a New York news program in 1974 and detailed, told a story in detail and in all seriousness to his fellow New Yorkers about the UFO that he saw flying over his 52nd Street apartment. Okay? Rock stars could say crazy shit. Keith Richards claims that he snorted the ashes of his cremated father. Quincy Jones said that Paul McCartney was the worst bass player he ever heard. He also claimed Marlon Brando had sex with a mailbox. By the way, in the exclusive section of this After Party episode, Zeth and I are going to dive into the wild, wild comments from the last interviews that Quincy Jones gave before he died. All the outlandish stories that Quincy told. Back to our story, however, where was I? Ah, yes, the outlandish things that rock stars say. Quincy Jones said, like I mentioned, that Paul McCartney sucked, all right? Billy Corgan says that he once encountered a shapeshifter. Demi Lovato believes that her extraordinary vocal talent is derived from extraterrestrial origins. Grimes says that she was raised by NHEs, not to be confused with NDEs. NHEs, that's what we're talking about here, that's what Grimes is talking about. NHEs are non-human entities, aliens, tall whites or the greys or ultra-terrestrials or shapeshifters or fucking reptile people, non-human entities. This is who Grimes believes raised her, okay? Listen, who am I to judge? What do we actually know anyways? The more I learn, the less I know. That's how I feel. That's how I feel these days. The more I learn, the less I know. So who am I to tell Dave Gahan that he didn't die? Or to tell a neurosurgeon, again, a literal brain surgeon that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Now, there have been other rock stars who have claimed to have died, and not one of them describes their experiences as being one of love and connectedness, like the good doctor here. Not that I've seen anyways. I'm talking about real rock stars, not nice guys who play in jazz bands with their local pastors on the weekend, not guys who... I'm talking about rock stars, okay? Depeche fucking Mode's front man, Nicky Six, okay? All of the real rock star near-death experience descriptions that I've read align closer to Dave Gahan's description of fear and darkness. When Nicky Six died, he described the incident as being painful. When Phil Anselmo of Pantera, when he died, as he claims his near-death experience, was a time spent in a black void. And there are others, but you get the gist. Fear, pain, a black void. These life after death rock star experiences, at least compared to the experience, again, of the neurosurgeon and frankly, countless other accounts by non-rock stars of NBEs. These experiences at the rock stars detail, they sound hellish compared to a state of connectedness and love, which sounds heavenly. Maybe that's by design. I'm not saying it is, I'm just asking questions here. Again, where do rock stars go when they die? They don't go to heaven where the angels fly. I'm paraphrasing the Me Puppets lyric that Kurt Cobain sang back in the early 90s. The real lyric is, where do bad folks go when they die? They don't go to heaven where the angels fly. They go to a lake of fire and fry, see them again on the 4th of July. And you know what? I believe what the Me Puppets are saying here. I believe that there is some sort of grand sorting of souls after all of whatever the hell this is. And that what we do here in this life matters. And I've always believed that, even when I didn't know that I believed that. I still believed that. And I've acted accordingly, which isn't to say that I've always acted with love. I haven't. To paraphrase Fiona Apple, the next rock star that I'm going to write about, I've been a bad, bad boy. But a lot of us have. All of us have. But nothing compared to how our rock stars have acted. Rock stars, like the rest of us, are complicated souls. They're capable of good and bad in equal measure sometimes, but for whom selfishness and sociopathy and pride. For the rock stars, these are more like job requirements than personality flaws. Not so much quote unquote sins, but rather tools to ply their trade is what I'm getting at. Okay? All that bad behavior to manifest life experiences here and now that are filled with drama, crime even, murder, rape, arson, cannibalism. Those of course are the worst of the worst. That's the worst of the behavior from our rock stars. But then there's the garden variety rock star narcissism and dickishness that leaves a trail of emotional chaos and wreckage that the rock star then unconsciously mines. Experiences, transgressive, dark experiences that they use to create with dark events from their own lives, brought about by their own free will, real pain. Pain that they bring upon others oftentimes, no different than us in some cases. Who among us hasn't broken someone's heart, right? Who among us hasn't unknowingly slighted someone else, made them feel small, brought pain into the world? We all do it, okay? But the rock star, the rock star, some of them anyway, the real rock star is capable of bringing about a different kind of pain. And like everything in the rock star's life, the pain is bigger. And that pain brings big results. Again, it's the well they draw upon to write their songs, to create. And here's the irony. To create is to love. Creation, the act of bringing something into the world, something that is going to bring joy to somebody else, like a song or an album or a live music experience, to create those things, it's an act of love. So what I'm saying, I guess, is, where do rock stars go when they die? Should they go to heaven, where the angels fly? Where the brain surgeons go, at least? I don't know. All I know is, Dave Gahan wrote the song Personal Jesus. And when my poor Greek Orthodox mother walked into our living room and found 16-year-old me watching that video with the imagery of slinky Dave Gahan shirtless strutting around a dusty Mexican Sam Peckinpah set, with those lyrics, Your own personal Jesus, reach out and touch me, she was pissed. It pained her, no doubt, to watch her son, her 16-year-old son, being taken in by what to her was, again, no doubt, some symbol of the Antichrist right there in her living room. Call Father Charis, all right? Let's exercise this bitch. But does this mean Dave Gahan should go to hell? Does it mean he is going to hell? I have no idea, man. This is not for me, my mother or Father Charis to decide. But still, to quote Dave Gahan, frightening darkness, okay? That's what he saw, frightening darkness, quite different from what the neurosurgeon saw. Does that mean anything? Again, I don't know, none of us know anything. Like I said, the more I learn, the less I know. I don't know what any of this adds up to, but it is fun to talk about, and it's the exact type of thing that we'd be talking about at the house party after the gig, at the after party. Did Dave Gahan die and come back to life? He thinks so. Did Nicky Six? Nicky Six says a lot of shit. Did Marlon Brando have sex with a mailbox like Quincy Jones says? Did Billy Corgan really see a shape shifter? Again, these are the hard-hitting serious questions we ask here in Disgraceland's after party and sometimes get the answer, or at least try to. You can answer them too, but you gotta call me to do that. 617-906-6638, leave me a voicemail or send me a text. I got a big question coming to next week's episode. How did Foo Fighters drummer Taylor Hawkins die? Taylor did not come back from the dead, unfortunately. He died tragically in a Colombian hotel, and we still don't know how. For real, there's still no official cause of death. It's been four years since one of the most famous drummers on the planet died, and we still don't have an official cause of death. Nothing, nada, zilch. Why not? What's the deal? Well, I'm going to tell you what I think is going on in that episode next week. And when I'm done, I'd like your opinion on the cause of Taylor Hawkins' death. How did he die? I want to know what you think. So get your calls, text 617-906-6638. Get them in to me. DM me at DisgracelandPod on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X, and email me, DisgracelandPod at gmail.com. Coming up Sunday, our rewind episode for this week is our classic episode on Selena. OK, we do have an official cause of death for Selena, and it was heartbreaking and entirely unnecessary. And this tragedy has become one of the classic true crime stories from music history. If you haven't heard it, but you haven't heard us tell it, then I invite you to fire up your podcast app this Sunday while you're out by the grill or in your garden, or you're making breakfast in the kitchen for your family, whatever you're doing, just pop in your earbuds and spin through Disgraceland and the tragic tale Selena with us, all right? Next week, like I said, next Tuesday, our new episode on the Foo Fighters and coming up next right here in the After Party, right after this, your voicemails, texts, DMs, and more from last week's question of the week, so don't go anywhere. All right, Debbie Harry said it best from Blondie. I'm in the phone booth. It's the one across the hall. You got me hanging on the telephone. 617-906-6638. Let's check out Dee in the 214.

Speaker 2:
[17:22] Hey, Jake, it's Dee from Dallas, Texas. And I just listened to your show, your Disgraceland episode on Depeche Mode, and you were asking for suggestions of covers, and you have to check out Tim Dracula's version of Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. I'm sure you've heard it because you're such a well-rounded cultural kind of guy, but if you haven't, you've got to listen to it. So out of the norm, out of character for everything that they usually do, but it's fricking awesome. And the first time I heard it, it made me cry. Give it a listen.

Speaker 1:
[18:14] All right, Dee, I'll see your Kim Dracula Goo Goo Dolls Iris, and I will raise you a Megadeth Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols cover. Check that out. I checked out the Kim Dracula cover of Goo Goo Dolls, and I gotta say, I liked it better than the Goo Goo Dolls version of Iris, which is fucking everywhere these days. That song, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. And I don't love that song to begin with, but at least this one's more interesting. Thank you, Dee. Appreciate you. Dee in the 214. And this is a nice intro to Daniel in the 707. Let's hear from Daniel.

Speaker 3:
[18:53] Hey, Jake. This is Daniel from 707, California's Pacific Northwest. My selection for the best cover song is going to be Megadeth's version of These Boots, a 1966 song by Nancy Sinatra. The original one we all know, we all love, we're pretty familiar with. So Megadeth, of course, we imagined it in a metal fashion, which included splicing up and changing the lyrics a bit in addition to everything else. So this leads to a little bit of a story because the songwriter, Lee Hazelwood, apparently was not having it, and he said, no permission, no go. Miss Dane fought it in court, said, hey, it's satire, it's irony, it's comedy, but it wasn't going. So their response was in subsequent releases of the Megadeth album, they just bleeped out some of the lyrics. But that was pretty much obnoxious and unlistenable. So the third solution was to simply release their metal version of the song originally, but with Nancy Sinatra slash Lee Hazelwood's actual lyrics of the song. I don't know legally how that all works, but apparently that settled it. So now we just have the straightforward metal version of these boots. So we'll wrap it up now. But one last note is that this dovetails with last week's question about memoirs and autobiographies, for which I will say the book Mustang by Dave Mustang himself is a absolutely great read. So thank you. Love you all.

Speaker 1:
[20:26] Daniel, I have never heard the Megadeth version of the Nancy Sinatra song. But like I just mentioned, I do or I did at least really dig the Megadeth cover of the Sex Pistols Anarchy in the UK. And I'm not embarrassed to admit that that was the first version of that song that I heard as a young boy. And I quickly though went to the Sex Pistols. And that is the classic version. Obviously, it's better than the Guns N Roses version. It's better than any attempt at that song. Nothing compares to the Sex Pistols version. Thank you for your call, Daniel. Appreciate you. All right. Let's go, Sean. Let's bring us to the 905.

Speaker 3:
[21:08] Hey, Bren, just regarding the Robiner Hall of Fame do-over or fresh start list. I got to say, I like where your head's at. Don't agree with every pick. I do heavily agree with the Jay Gals band, however they should be in already. But for myself, I think I would consider any Hall of Fame illegitimate, if it didn't have the Pixies. I mean, influence, it's no secret that two of the Pixies' biggest fans are Kurt Cobain and Damon Albarn. They talk about them all the time or used to. Counterculture, I mean, arguably their two biggest mainstream moments came in the form of movie soundtracks, both which were entirely about counterculture and public volume and fight clubs. So, yeah, any hall that I would want to be a part of definitely has to include the Pixies. Pixies, Pixies, Pixies, right on, great content, peace.

Speaker 1:
[21:56] OK, guys, I don't know how many messages and voicemails we got about the Pixies and Jake Osban. I mentioned Jake Osban last week that they should be part of our Disgraceland Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and they are. I think we just inducted them. And I think their being from Boston prompted the Pixies' responses as well, which I absolutely agree with. The Pixies should be in the real Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, full stop. And you bring up a really good point, like we know about the Nirvana influence. We sometimes, I sometimes forget about the Blur influence, which you mentioned, you mentioned both of those, 905. But also the cultural argument, because of the movie soundtrack piece is huge as well. And it goes to show just how influential and important that band is. And I don't know, have they ever been nominated? That's something I'm going to find out. They should be. Maybe, maybe, I don't know if this happens if you get nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and if you're like Susan Lucci and you just miss it for, you know, five years in a row or whatever, they just stop nominating you. I don't know if that happened to the Pixies or not. If it did, it's a damn shame. I'll look into it for you. I'll report back next week, 905, and everyone else who recommended the Pixies. 714, 714. Sean, go to the 714.

Speaker 3:
[23:17] Hey, Jake, this is Junior, 714. Cover songs. First one comes to mind. So many great ones out there, but one of my favorites, Mojo Nixon's Cover of the Smith's Girlfriend in a Coma. Frickin fun cover. If you haven't heard it, I hope you enjoy it. RIP, Mojo Nixon, and you're doing a great job, Jay. Keep doing what you're doing, brother. I'll talk to you later. Bye.

Speaker 1:
[23:44] Mojo Nixon, Girlfriend in a Coma by the Smiths. No, I have never heard that. But I'm interested, man. I am interested. We've been having a lot of fun with the Smiths lately. In our video podcast, This Film Should Be Played Loud, we have a category that we get to now every episode, which quote from this movie should be a Smith song title. And we pulled a couple great ones out of High Fidelity, which you will hear next week when we release the next episode of This Film Should Be Played Loud. You gotta be a Patreon member, though, to check that out. Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up. 617-906-6638-714. Thanks for the MojoNixon message again. Let's do, let's go to the 920.

Speaker 3:
[24:31] Greetings, fellow Disgos. I'm down low in the 920. I drive all day fixing vending machines. And while I'm doing that, I love to listen to Disgraceland and Hollywoodland. And Jake brought up unlikely remakes. Okay, the OG, Johnny Cash with Hurt. Fair enough. Here's one that's not necessarily unlikely, but the first time I heard War Pigs was Faith No More's War Pigs. And then when I heard the original Black Sabbath, I liked Faith No More better. And it comes down to production, artisan skill. But you know what? Sometimes the first time you hear a specific song, it's the time you like it the best.

Speaker 2:
[25:16] No Shades at the Sabbath.

Speaker 3:
[25:18] All I gotta say is Rock a Roll of Peace Out, signing off, Evermore.

Speaker 1:
[25:25] Yo, I hear you. I hear you. But I think the Freon or whatever it is that got coursing through the vending machines might be influencing you. There's no Freon in vending machines. I know that, but I'm trying to make a point that Faith No More's version of War Pigs is not better than Black Sabbath. But that's your opinion, man. That's just like your opinion, man. And you are entitled to that. And I get it. I totally get it. Sometimes your point is completely valid. Sometimes the first version of the song that you hear is the best version of it, okay? Like Little Latin Loop Dee Lou, you know? For Barry in High Fidelity, it's the Righteous Brothers, Righteous Brothers version. Or is it the Izzy Brothers? I can't remember. Whatever it is, it's not Mitch Ryder and the fuck at Detroit Wheels, as Dick was well told. Anyhow, on Faith No More and their cover songs, Easy Like Sunday Morning, Fantastic, Like War Pigs. We had this ongoing argument, my best friend, one of my best friends growing up, Dutch and I, when we were kids on how a song should be covered. He believed that the Faith No More approach was the right approach. He tried to treat it like a re-creation of the original, which I just believe is completely false still to this day. In Dutch now, I talk into a microphone for a living, so I think I can better make my point. I think the way to do it is to, at least the covers that I respond to the most strongly are the ones that are interpretations of the original, where the person covering the song interprets it, and brings their own musical point of view and style to what we're hearing. That's what I love. It goes back, it's the classic version of, lots of people in the early days of pop music would record the same songs. Lots of people would record Cole Porter songs, but you'd want the Ella Fitzgerald version of the Cole Porter songbook, because you just love the way that she made the songs her own versus, I don't know, another jazz singer, okay? Even if that jazz singer was good, you might prefer one's interpretation over the other. And they weren't always just sort of recreations. Anyhow, that's my take on it, but what do I know? Appreciate your 920. Check out, you've probably heard it, but Charles Bradley's version of Changes, Black Sabbath Changes, another great cover, and an unlikely one at that. All right, let's do some text. 617-906-6638. Kara in the 703, Hey, Jake, this is Kara. Unlikely cover I heard recently is Radiohead Creep covered by tears for fears. I need to hear this. Thank you for the nice words about our content too, Kara. Appreciate you. Allie in the 540, Jake, as cliche as it is, other than the boss, Bruce Springsteen, I have to say Taylor Swift is the most influential musician that I have come across. I discovered her when I was 10 and she had just released the Fearless album. And growing up, she's been the soundtrack to my life from narrating breakups I've been through to dealing with a family member with a terminal illness. Her range of topics is just aligned so perfectly with my life. She's put things in words so beautifully that I wouldn't even have imagined. I love the show. Keep up the great work. PS. Thanks for the T-shirt and the poster. Allie, I hear you and it's interesting to hear the perspective of somebody who got into Taylor Swift as a 10-year-old and I'm assuming is now an adult and hearing how her songs have tracked and stayed with you through the sort of narrative of your life. That's pretty fascinating and that's a very powerful skill for a pop artist to have. I wonder how much of it is intentional and how much of it is organic. I would bet that it is a healthy mix of the two with most of it being organic. Anyways, 540, I'm happy that you have such a close connection to an artist and have for some time. It sounds fantastic. May we all be so lucky and I think most of us are. Now is Lisa in the 907 lucky? Let's see what Lisa's got to say here. Another deep cut on the cover subject here, another deep cut from the late 90s. Check out Edwin McCain's cover of James Taylor's. I've got to stop thinking about that. It's on the Misguided Roses album, but I saw him perform it in person and it was fantastic. I'll stop now. Lisa from the 907. Lisa, thank you. You don't have to stop. This is fantastic. I've never heard of this. The song, the original by James Taylor. I don't really know that much Edwin McCain, so I'm stoked to get into this. Thank you, Lisa. Tonya in the 646 writes in, Hey Jake, my number one, not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but should be, is Captain Beefheart, aka Don Van Vle. I'm with you on Jeff Buckley too, and Jeff Buckley is only two degrees of separation from Beefheart. Guitarist slash songwriter, Gary Lucas, was in at least two iterations of the Magic Band, that's Beefheart's band, and later on, Jeff Buckley was in Gary Lucas' band, Gods and Monsters, before going solo. And Gary, Gary Lucas wrote the music for the songs Grace and Mojo Pin on Jeff's debut album and plays on those tracks. Cheers from Tonya W in New York City. Full disclosure, I'm friends with Gary and maintain his website, but I swear this is all true. Tonya, we believe you. We believe you. I feel like Beefheart's going to get in on one of those, the way they put Grand Parsons in. What do they call that? Historical consideration or whatever the hell it is. I think Jeff Buckley will get in eventually. By the way, anyone see that video recently? The first time I've seen it of Julianne Hadfield playing, I think it's at Axis on Newbury Street in Boston in the 90s, and it's the end of her set and she's about to go into her encore or something, and Jeff Buckley just comes flying from side stage and stage dives into the drum set. Ending her set, it's magnificent, pretty amazing. Jeff was a wild dude despite what he sounded like. Tanya, I appreciate the text. You know what I'm seeing here? There's a pattern here with the voicemails and texts. I think every voicemail I received, except one was from dudes, and all the texts are from women. What is up with that? We need more variety. Come on, switch it up guys for next week. Where am I? Now I lost my space. We want to go to Flow in the 317. Flow, where are you at? Flow says, yo, it's Flow from the 317. I'm digging the recommendation section resuscitation. I pulled the trigger on one of Jake's book recommendations this week as he described the book as hard to find. When I found it, to my surprise, I found it on Amazon for seven bucks. The book in question is, you'll never make love in this town again. I'm sitting at an airport bar in Indianapolis, digging through this stellar account of some wild and heinous stories of some of Rock's most vibrant characters. One foot in the gutter and one foot on solid ground always makes for a fan-fucking-tastic read. I got one recommendation for the crew at Double Elvis to quell the oasis is just an OK band argument. Dig out your soul. If you don't love this record, then you never liked Rock-a-Roll. But OK, much love to all you guys. Thanks for all your entertaining storytelling. Much love, Rock-a-Roll up. Flo and Flo sends in a picture of looks like she's working on a pint of something dark. What does that look like? Maybe it's Guinness. Maybe maybe something a little lighter, maybe harp. And also looks like you get a little a little neat pour of bourbon there as a little sidecar. And in the middle, she is a copy of what I'm astounded to see is a hard copy version on the bar between her drinks of You'll Never Make Love In This Town Again that she got for seven bucks on Amazon. I think I paid like $400 for this book or something insane like that. I don't know how you got this, but congrats. Of course, I bought mine about five years ago. Sometimes that matters. Maybe a bunch more were released into the wild. I don't know. I bought, I found yesterday, I found a copy of the Madonna Playboy, which I have long coveted, not because of any perverted Madonna reasons, but just because my wife and I collect old Playboys. And this is a hard one, not just because of Madonna, but it's also hard because it's one of the last stapled copies, additions, I should say, of Playboy. Now I found it for 40 bucks. And typically it's about $300 to find a copy on the internet. So I don't know what the hell I'm getting into. I don't know what's going to show up in my doorstep. And I'm probably going to have to wear like a hazmat suit to open this thing and handle it. But we shall see, we shall see. I'm off on a tangent here. Let's check in here with, we just talked to Flow in the 317. Let's go to the 304. Okay, Luke, who I presume is a dude from the 304 who wrote 394. Luke, your area code is the 304. I know this. How I know it. Well, I can't tell you, but I know it to be a fact. Anyways, Luke writes in, hey, Concrete Blondes cover a Leonard Cohen song. Everybody knows it's an interesting version. It's on the excellent soundtrack from Christian Slater's movie Pump Up the Volume. Yes, great cover, unlikely cover, great original, great movie. I can't quibble with any of this, Luke, except for your area code, the 304. Now, Jules in the 425. Hey, Jake, Jules in the 425. Just listen to your bit on Beastie Boys. Awesome job and a fan since the start. And we just wanted to mention that the Apple TV has a great doc on the Beastie Boys, about to be missed by true fans. Keep them coming. You rule. You're absolutely right, Jules. Beastie Boys story on Apple is fantastic. And honestly, it made the telling of our story really hard because it's tough to... You can't really... Who's going to tell the Beastie Boys story better than the Beastie Boys? Nobody, okay? But we did find some choice nugs, as they say in the research. And we were able to put something together that I think is pretty original. Hope you check that Beastie Boys episode out, guys. If you haven't, it's our latest Rewind episode. It should be pretty high in your feed. 209, first time texter, just listened to the Hall of Fame discussion. The Black Crows couldn't get in to the Hall of Fame either. That's because they were all about access and debauchery and giving the middle finger to everyone. Do they get in eventually? I think they do get in eventually. Should they get in before the Pixies? That's the question I'm asking myself now, based on the input from all of you guys. And I don't think the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame discriminates against access and debauchery. Maybe they do now. No, no. They just let Oasis in. What are we even talking about? All right, appreciate it, though, 209. Text us back, OK? Guys, great feedback this week. As always, 617-906-6638. Hit me with, I don't know, anything you want. More unlikely covers. Who's going in the Disgraceland Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Who your nominees are? Let me know. Who else besides the Pixies? Also, I want your theories on how Taylor Hawkins died, or at least on why there's been no official cause of death. 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text at DisgracelandPod on Instagram and elsewhere. DisgracelandPod at gmail.com. On the email, I'll be back in a flash with more from you guys with your emails and your direct messages. All right, guys, we are back. My man, Bill McClinton, over on Instagram writes in, hey, pardon the interruption, and with massive amounts of respect, Misunderstanding was a 1980 Genesis song from their album Duke, not a Phil Collins solo effort. Well, shit, Bill, I stand corrected. I don't know what the fuck I've been thinking or talking about. I listen to that song so much, I search up that song so much on Spotify, and I hear I have been just treating it like a regular old Phil Collins song. Fun fact, my other favorite Phil Collins song is not a Phil Collins song. It's a Philip Bailey song. Okay, trivia question. Do you know what I'm talking about? Hit me back, 617-906-6638. Let me know. Also, be like Bill. Let me know what you might want to correct here. Anything we get wrong, because sometimes, like everybody else, we fuck up. We're imperfect beings, just like everybody is. All right, let's do this email. Disgracelandpod at gmail.com. This one comes from Tara Baker, subject Waylon Jennings. Hey, Jake, I'm going to try all caps to make this short. I have listened since pretty much the beginning because I have a raging girl hard on for all music, Hollywood and true crime. So your pods, check all the boxes. However, I did take a break for a while when I fell off all podcasts for a bit, you know, just the natural ebb and flow of life. I did want to let you know that I just listened to the Waylon Jennings episode and this one was near and dear to me because he is family. His dad and my grandfather were brothers and my mom grew up in Littlefield, Texas because most of the population of the town was just the Jennings family. You reminded me of stories that I have heard my entire life and just forgot either from Waylon himself or from my mother, my grandfather, aunts, uncles because the Jennings family are talkers. Please note the length of this e-mail. Genetics are rough. My mom would tell me about growing up with him, sometimes living at their house and Buddy Holly coming over. They treated her like the little sister and put Buddy's glasses on her to watch her get dizzy and fall, or the time when they got her to lick the metal microphone they were using to practice. In my life, I've gotten to meet some pretty crazy people and hear some pretty crazy stories because of Waylon. It has been an amazing existence and to hear you tell this story, when so many times he gets overlooked for Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson, understandable because they too were insane. To hear you tell this story was perfect. Not to mention that you ended it on such a beautiful note with his sobriety, not his death. It brought me to tears. Thank you. I will forever be a listener and now a Patreon supporter because you are one of the few that I can confirm does the research and tells the facts in all of your pods. Please keep it going and again, thank you, Rockarolla, Tara. Tara, huge. I don't know what to say. I mean, I responded to you personally, but I'll say it again here. Thank you so much. It's an incredible note and very generous of you to say. You didn't have to go out of your way to make us feel validated here. I'm just I'm happy that we did the Waylon Jennings story justice, that we did the Jennings family justice and all props to Zeth Lundy who researched and wrote that episode that we produced for you. Happy you dug it. All right, let's play a new song, old song real quick. New song, White Denim. Now listen, not a new band per se, but a new song by them, Ruby. I love this song. It is fucking great. If you dig that Rod Stewart faces vibe, you need something to get you stoked about the sun and the burgers on the grill in the backyard, then this is your jam. Okay. Ruby by White Denim. Now old song. I'm looking up at my wall in the studio here and I've got a Rick Dalton poster, Rick Dalton character from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. And Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has reminded me of Paul Revere in The Raiders, Mark Lindsay. They take a lot of shit in that movie, okay? But Tarantino is celebrating them. Now listen, I'm not going to recommend Paul Revere in The Raiders because you can just go to the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood soundtrack and you can find a couple of great Paul Revere in The Raiders songs. But Paul Revere in The Raiders remind me of another band that I do want to recommend. They remind me of a band from Boston from back in the 60s called The Remains, or as I refer to them, Barry and the Remains. Now listen, I want you to go to their 1966 self-titled debut album. It's all great, but the first song you want to play is Don't Look Back. This song is tremendous. There's a reason that Boston's The Remains were the only band open for the Beatles on their tour here in America, because they were great. We talked a lot about Boston bands that deserve to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in this episode, but in the 60s, Jay Giles banned The Remains that deserve to be in the Hall of Fame as well. Graham Parsons just went in, and Barry Tashian, the singer and front man for The Remains. After The Remains broke up in the 60s, Barry went on to work with Graham Parsons and was instrumental in working out the harmonies on Graham's excellent album GP with Emmylou Harris. Graham, excuse me, Barry is, as far as I know, he's still around and he's a great guy. I've had the privilege of meeting him a couple of times. He signed my book that he wrote about his time on tour with the Beatles, but none of that is why I'm recommending this song. Don't Look Back is incredible. And this whole album, the self-titled Remains album is great. So check that out. All right, so that there, recommendations. That's just a taste. You want more? We got more recommendations in the Hollywoodland feed with Zeth and I in the rap party. This week, we're talking about great songs with the names of actors or actresses in the song title. Sean, why don't you grab a little clip of that conversation and give the people here a taste of what we got going on over in Hollywoodland. Okay, I'm gonna start with an obscure one because it's super personal to me. And it's Grace Kelly with Wings by Piebald, which is a great Boston.

Speaker 4:
[44:05] Great pick.

Speaker 1:
[44:06] People call them an emo band, they're a rock band. But they're part of the whole emo scene and part of the scene that I came up in. And the song is about, I believe, I could be wrong, it's about a girl named Valerie, who we all knew and hung out with. And Travis from Piebald was romantically involved with her. And this is the song that's about her. But it's just a great song. It is so, so, so great. And it's just about being arrested by the beauty and grace of, you know, you just see those women in your life, you're just like, oh my God, like, come on, man, stop. And it's, I think it's their best song. And they have a lot of great songs and they're still playing. Piebald is still playing. They've been around forever. So Grace Kelly with Wings, it's on the excellently named album. If it weren't for the Venetian Blinds, it would be Curtains for us all. If anybody wants a taste of what mid to late 90s Boston upstairs at the Middle East was like, that record will give it to you, it's great. So Grace Kelly with Wings, that's my first one. All right guys, that is Hollywoodland. Make sure you are subscribed to the Hollywoodland podcast on Apple Podcast or the iHeartRadio app. You're gonna get three episodes a week. You're gonna get a classic Hollywood story of true crime and excess. And you're also gonna get mine and Zeth's Hollywood-based music recommendations in the rap party, along with Zeth's excellent take on all things Tinseltown and true crime. And there is a third piece of content in the Hollywoodland feed as well, the screening room. In this week, Zeth is preparing us all for Drew Barrymore week that's coming up next week. And I bit my tongue on my Drew Barrymore stories. Those are for me and my priest, okay? I was gonna talk about them in the exclusive section of this After Party with Zeth, but I held back. And you know, maybe when, maybe there'll be a Disgraceland event someday and maybe you'll get a couple of cocktails in me and I'll talk out of school. But that's just, you know, like I said, I'm not going there. I'm not going there. But Zeth is going there with Drew in different ways this week coming up in Hollywoodland. Make sure you're subscribed. All right, Zeth and I are also talking about Quincy Jones and his batshit crazy claims that he made before he died. We're doing that right now in the exclusive section of this year After Party. You want to hear it, go to disgracelandpod.com to become an All Access member of Disgraceland. Unlock exclusive content like this conversation coming up, plus ad free listening, plus by becoming an All Access member on Patreon, you're going to get access to our video podcast. This film should be played loud. This month, we taped it last night. It's our conversation on High Fidelity and all the great music in that film. Just unbelievably cool. What an A-plus movie, by the way, just A-plus. I put it up there with the best of the best, and it's not just because of the music. That story does not stop. It is nonstop. You're just locked in. There's constantly something happening that is compelling you to want to know what happens next. And that's just, I mean, it sounds basic, but that's the definition of great storytelling. Anyways, this film should be played loud. Go to disgracelandpod.com to sign up so you can cop that, just like you can get access to this coming conversation right here in the exclusive section of the After Party. All right, Disgos, welcome into the exclusive section of this After Party. Thank you for your support. Thank you for being an All Access member of Disgraceland. We've got some good stuff to talk to you about today. Some juicy stuff. I alluded to this earlier, or no, I actually quoted from it earlier. At the end of his life, Quincy Jones, one of the greatest American musicians to ever breathe air and make music, said some truly outlandish things to a couple of different reporters in a couple of different interviews, the last interviews of his life. And this is sort of like one of those stories. When this news was breaking, I can't remember. If Disgraceland was around, it was very early days, but I think this might have been beforehand. I'm not exactly sure. I do remember thinking, this is so good, I need to savor it. I can't just read clips. I need to find the full articles, sit down with a nice cup of tea or a glass of bourbon or whatever. I need to really get into this. And I never have. I just kind of like put it to the wayside. And every now and then some of the stuff will burble up in conversation online and you'll catch wind of it. And when I needed today to make my point in the earlier section of this after party, when I needed quotes, outlandish quotes from rock stars, I knew exactly where to go. And it reminded me that I have not really fully digested these claims by Quincy Jones and they're spectacular. And I asked Zeth, I asked you to do a little research this morning and come on here and take us through. And I think the best way to do this is if you can just voice what Quincy Jones had said and then we will react to it and give you our take because some of this stuff is just fucking crazy and like I don't know if you believe all of it. I certainly don't. But you know, who might have quibble? He's Quincy Jones. He knew these people. I didn't. I didn't. Neither did you. I don't think. I don't think you knew Ringo Starr, Omarul, and Brando. But let's get into it, shall we?

Speaker 4:
[49:32] Yeah, let's totally get into it. His overall vibe seems to be like things aren't like what they used to be. They used to be really good and they're not good anymore.

Speaker 1:
[49:40] Yeah, yeah. Typical old guy vibe.

Speaker 4:
[49:43] Typical old guy vibe, yeah. All right, I'm just going to start from the top here. He called the Beatles no playing motherfuckers.

Speaker 1:
[49:52] I've heard this before from other great jazz musicians who were just judging the Beatles against like, you know what I mean? Like Art Tatum and Miles Davis. Yeah, it's like, yeah, by that standard, of course. That's not what they were trying to do, dude. If they were doing that, they wouldn't have been the Beatles. How does Quincy Jones not understand that?

Speaker 4:
[50:13] I think Quincy Jones just comes from a different place. You know what I mean? He's going from a different place to all this.

Speaker 1:
[50:20] He produced Michael Jackson and some of the greatest pop music of all time.

Speaker 4:
[50:24] Right, but to your point, listen to how those Michael Jackson records are played, how the musicians are playing on those records. To Quincy's point, you couldn't slide Ringo in and be like, all right, this is called Want to Be Starting Something. Ringo, let's go. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[50:40] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[50:41] No shade to Ringo.

Speaker 1:
[50:42] I was about to say, but the Beatles weren't trying to make Want to Be Starting Something, but I damn well, I guarantee you, when they heard Want to Be Starting Something, they were like, fuck, we should have done something like that.

Speaker 4:
[50:53] Should we get back together again?

Speaker 1:
[50:54] Yeah. What year was Off the Wall, 1980? Did John Lennon hear Off the Wall?

Speaker 4:
[50:59] No, Off the Wall was 79. Oh, nice.

Speaker 1:
[51:02] So he did.

Speaker 4:
[51:03] I believe, right? So he did.

Speaker 1:
[51:04] Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I don't have a frame of context with Off the Wall that goes back to when it was released because I was too young.

Speaker 4:
[51:11] 79, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:12] And I wonder if it had sort of the arresting quality that it had when we first heard it with sort of more mature musical years as we got older. I mean, we heard that stuff in the air, but we didn't listen to it as an album. It makes me wonder what people like John Lennon thought of Michael Jackson. You know? One of my favorite parts of the John Lennon research that we came up with was his thoughts on Bruce Springsteen. Yes. And I just love it. I absolutely love it. And I depicted it in our episodes on him. But it'd be fascinating to know what he thought of Michael Jackson, because he missed the whole thriller thing. But Off the Wall is just fantastic. And those singles, those singles are huge and they're great. And I'm sure there was some creative envy there, at least production envy, to be like, oh, how the can they do that?

Speaker 4:
[52:00] Paul McCartney started working with him later on.

Speaker 1:
[52:01] True, of course. Yep, of course.

Speaker 4:
[52:04] Speaking of Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones also, and Quincy Jones kind of speaks in these vagaries, where he'll just throw out names and he won't actually, he won't actually say what he's saying, he'll just allude to it. But speaking of Michael Jackson, he was like, Michael Jackson stole ideas for songs all the time.

Speaker 1:
[52:20] Yeah, I saw that. I saw that.

Speaker 4:
[52:22] He basically name checks Donna Summer's song, State of Independence, and then mentions Billie Jean. And before I jumped on Mike, I went and I re-listened to State of Independence really quick. And I'm like, I'm not hearing Billie Jean in this at all. I'm not really sure what he's talking about there. But that whole like mama say, mama saw, mama kusa thing, and want to be starting something, that came from another song, correct?

Speaker 1:
[52:42] Yeah, that's lifted from like some sort of African chant or something like that. Which, come on, that's not stealing. That's being inspired.

Speaker 4:
[52:50] Right, exactly. And greater is, you know, steal, so.

Speaker 1:
[52:53] Right.

Speaker 4:
[52:54] In one of these interviews, he's asked, what's something you wish you didn't know? And his response is, who killed Kennedy?

Speaker 1:
[53:01] Yeah, he wished he didn't know who did it.

Speaker 4:
[53:03] Right.

Speaker 1:
[53:03] Now, his answer to this is a good one, but the way he frames it is ridiculous. Like, he says, correct me if I'm wrong, but he says that Sam Giancana killed John F. Kennedy. He doesn't say that Sam Giancana, the mobster, had John F. Kennedy killed. He says that Sam himself pulled the trigger, right?

Speaker 4:
[53:22] I think so. And again, this might be where the vagary thing comes in, where he's just saying the name and connecting the dots there. Right.

Speaker 1:
[53:28] Maybe he says pull the trigger, but he means it figuratively and not literally. I can see that as he's being vague.

Speaker 4:
[53:33] But again, remember, he said this, I think this was in 2018, this particular interview. And I mean, at the time, 2018, this was still somewhat shocking to say that you think that a mobster killed JFK, correct?

Speaker 1:
[53:50] I'm going to do a little research. I think Quincy Jones had some overlap with blanking on the woman's name who was shared, lack of a better term, between Sam Giancana and John F. Kennedy.

Speaker 4:
[54:06] Okay. Well, he had the connection there because he worked with Sinatra a lot. And so I think he had the Sinatra connection into that whole universe.

Speaker 1:
[54:13] Yeah. Did he do the arrangements on the Sinatra Basie album, Live at the Sands?

Speaker 4:
[54:21] I'd have to look that up.

Speaker 1:
[54:22] I think you might have. Keep talking here. Give me some more. I'll look that up while you're giving us... Come on, man. You're really burying the lead here.

Speaker 4:
[54:32] I'm just going through my... I'm burying the lead. You were talking about how he said that Paul Allen, the Microsoft guy, could play guitar as well as Jimi Hendrix?

Speaker 1:
[54:46] That's something. That's something. I did not know that. That's ridiculous. Sounds like Paul Allen was writing the Quincy Jones Foundation some checks.

Speaker 4:
[54:55] He was like, listen, I went on this guy's yacht and David Crosby was there and Joe Walsh was there and then Stevie Wonder and his band showed up and Paul Allen sits in with Stevie Wonder and his band and it's like, boom, it's like Jimi Hendrix all over again.

Speaker 1:
[55:07] Oh my God. This from the guy who did indeed arrange the strings from one of my favorite albums of all time, Count Basie, Frank Sinatra, Live at the Sands. Okay, let's keep going here.

Speaker 4:
[55:17] Brilliant. Jimi Hendrix was supposed to play on a Quincy Jones record called Gula Matari in 1970, but he chickened out. He said he was intimidated by the level of virtuosity, like Herbie Hancock and jazz players like this that were on the session.

Speaker 1:
[55:32] I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that Jimi Hendrix was insecure about his playing around jazz guys. I mean, he aspired to be one of those guys. That's why I don't doubt it. Despite all his bombast and everything else, like he was a real playing motherfucker, and he knew real players, and he was probably, I mean, drugs, man. Drugs make you insecure. Could have been one of those moments. He was having a bad day. I would have been intimidated by Herbie Hancock. Fucking named his album Headhunters. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4:
[56:01] Well, that's probably the larger reason why Jimmy and Miles Davis never did something because they were supposed to as well. He was probably intimidated into Miles.

Speaker 1:
[56:11] Yeah, that would have been wild because that was the peak of Miles' insanity when it came to recording and the music that he was making. Yeah, like on the corner era, right? Early, late 60s, early 70s.

Speaker 4:
[56:24] Yeah, Bitches Brew, yeah, yeah, yeah. Marlon Brando? So again, this is the vagaries.

Speaker 1:
[56:34] This is the ball game though. This is it.

Speaker 4:
[56:39] Again, he's speaking in vagaries, but he's like Marlon Brando will have sex with anything. He'd have sex with a mailbox. And then he just lists names. He says Marvin Gaye, James Baldwin, Richard Pryor. Like he doesn't say Marlon Brando has sex with these people, but he just kind of lists it out and infers that that happened.

Speaker 1:
[56:57] The headline out of this interview was Quincy Jones says Marlon Brando has sex with a mailbox and Richard Pryor and Marvin Gaye and Jimmy Baldwin. James Baldwin was gay.

Speaker 4:
[57:08] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[57:08] Right. And James Baldwin was part of that, obviously the whole theater world in the fifties and sixties when Brando does Streetcar Named Desire, which he didn't do on stage, did he? He just did the Tennessee Williams film adaptation of it.

Speaker 4:
[57:23] Yeah, he did the Kazan, the movie, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[57:25] Still, Brando was a New York guy, part of that world.

Speaker 4:
[57:29] Well, yeah, and there's stuff out there about Brando and what went on with him as well. So, yeah, really?

Speaker 1:
[57:35] Because the first I ever heard of this was the Quincy Jones thing.

Speaker 4:
[57:38] Oh, I think so. I think there's some other.

Speaker 1:
[57:41] I don't want to speculate about a man's alleged homosexuality, perceived homosexual, whatever. Whatever people do in their own bedrooms, I could give a fuck. But there is something really compelling about this line of thought around Marlon Brando because he was the avatar for male sexuality.

Speaker 4:
[58:01] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[58:02] And I guess to me, that means it makes a lot of sense. You know what I mean? It makes an awful lot of sense. But Richard Pryor, I don't know, Marvin Gaye, I could see. I mean, I kind of like the idea of these guys in the 70s and the 80s in Hollywood. Just being like, fuck it, man, like whatever.

Speaker 4:
[58:22] You know that someone once told me when I lived in LA that when Marvin was making Let's Get It On in a studio in Hollywood, that it was like the band was rehearsing down on the first floor and he was on the second floor just doing tons of cocaine and having tons of sex. And every time he'd hear a cool groove, he'd be like, he would stop his party and he'd run downstairs and record and then he'd go back up. And so yeah, I mean, that was sort of the tenor of the times, you know?

Speaker 1:
[58:48] Yeah, especially out there, especially, that can't be good. Do I believe that, about how the record was made? Do you actually believe it?

Speaker 4:
[58:56] I mean, I think there's probably some truth to it. Maybe that was like one afternoon or something. I don't know, that's how the entire record was made.

Speaker 1:
[59:03] It's such a genius album. It's hard for me to accept that depiction of the making of it.

Speaker 4:
[59:09] Right.

Speaker 1:
[59:10] Because it's devoid of any sort of intention, like artistic intentionality, which Marvin Gaye, for all his drug use, was a very intentional artist. He was very intentional about what he did creatively. And just this sort of unhinged... He wasn't Jim Morrison, you know what I mean? Not to say that Jim Morrison wasn't intentional. Sure. He was, but only to a point. And then the drugs and the alcohol took over, right? And if you captured the brilliance, you captured the brilliance. The depiction you just gave of Marvin, you know, like just pulling his pants up and going to do a little... I mean, I'm not denying that it didn't happen once or twice, but just, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4:
[59:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1:
[59:57] He wasn't Ike Turner, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know?

Speaker 4:
[60:00] I'm not saying the guy that fucking engineered the record, like, who was taking copious notes, is the guy I got this information from.

Speaker 1:
[60:09] Okay, so we're saying we kind of believe the outlandish Quincy Jones story about Marlon Brando, maybe about Marvin Gaye, but we haven't talked about Richard Pryor. I mean, Richard Pryor, I don't know. I've seen the toy. I can believe it.

Speaker 4:
[60:26] I don't know, man. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:28] You ass. You ever see the toy?

Speaker 4:
[60:29] Of course I've seen the toy. You ass.

Speaker 1:
[60:32] So good. All right, let's keep going here.

Speaker 4:
[60:37] He just has, like I said, a lot of this is like things used to be. They ask about, he's really good friends with Bono, and he talks about staying at Bono's place on the regular.

Speaker 1:
[60:45] This one's great. This one's great.

Speaker 4:
[60:47] And the interviewer straight up is like, are you two still any good? And Quincy's reaction is just like Quincy shakes his head. No way. He won't even say it, but he's like, come on, man. Maybe like, let's come move on. Really?

Speaker 1:
[61:00] I'm surprised that Quincy Jones thought that you two once was any good. I mean, he's like the fucking Beatles. He's like, but that edge, oh, man, like that edge can play.

Speaker 4:
[61:12] Yeah, seriously.

Speaker 1:
[61:13] Yeah, if he's got 22 pedals, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[61:16] And well, he's the one that signed new order to his label when they first hit the States too.

Speaker 1:
[61:20] That's right.

Speaker 4:
[61:21] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:22] That's right.

Speaker 4:
[61:26] He has this great quote. Hold on. Hold on.

Speaker 1:
[61:29] Back to Bono and Quincy Jones.

Speaker 4:
[61:30] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[61:32] He claims that Bono would have Quincy Jones stay in his mansion.

Speaker 4:
[61:37] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[61:37] Because Ireland was too racist of a country. Yes. Which, okay, Bono's got a mansion. So we're probably talking the 1990s, okay? Before he has a mansion is the 1980s, I'm guessing. Does he have a mansion in the 80s?

Speaker 4:
[61:53] Maybe. I think he gets the money at the end of the 80s. So he's probably buying the mansion in the 90s.

Speaker 1:
[61:58] Probably buying the mansion in the 90s.

Speaker 4:
[61:59] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:00] And I wonder, I don't doubt that Bono said that, but I just want, I've never been to Ireland. And frankly, I don't know much about modern Ireland. Is it that racist or is that just some shit that Bono tells Quincy Jones to be like, you know, I'm going to get on Quincy's level here. Right. I'm going to tell Quincy I'm taking care of him. You know what I mean? I'm going to protect you.

Speaker 4:
[62:22] Could be. It didn't make Quincy like his band anymore.

Speaker 1:
[62:23] I'm not denying it, but the dynamics of it are fascinating to me.

Speaker 4:
[62:27] Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1:
[62:28] Rich people flying around the world, living in a bubble, dynamics are always fascinating to me. Yep.

Speaker 4:
[62:36] You know what I mean? Speaking of that, after Sinatra passed away, Sinatra handed his ring down to Quincy that has his family crest from Sicily.

Speaker 1:
[62:47] Oh, really?

Speaker 4:
[62:48] So like Quincy wore that ring for the rest of his life after Sinatra died.

Speaker 1:
[62:52] Where's that ring now?

Speaker 4:
[62:53] That's a great question.

Speaker 1:
[62:55] The chick from the office has it.

Speaker 4:
[62:57] Right.

Speaker 1:
[62:59] Who's her husband? Isn't she married to someone cool? Or am I getting it right?

Speaker 4:
[63:04] Probably. I would imagine so.

Speaker 1:
[63:05] Keep going. I'll look it up.

Speaker 4:
[63:08] Again, he makes these statements about modern pop having no innovation. They talk about people like Taylor Swift. He's like, we need songs, not hooks. All these modern artists, all they have is hooks. There are no songs. Kind of this old person talk like you were saying. He had this great quote, dude.

Speaker 1:
[63:27] Well, about the same thing or are you going to move on?

Speaker 4:
[63:30] It's kind of about the same thing. It's just about the way in which music is made and music is commercialized and everything.

Speaker 1:
[63:38] Hooks focused.

Speaker 4:
[63:40] Yeah. He said, God walks out of the room when you're thinking about money.

Speaker 1:
[63:45] Wow.

Speaker 4:
[63:46] He was like, if you're going to pay this dude a million dollars to record this saxophone solo, well, he's like, God walks out of the room. Now, this is the guy that famously did not pay Eddie Van Halen to record the guitar solo on Beat It.

Speaker 1:
[63:59] Well, he didn't want God to walk out of the room.

Speaker 4:
[64:01] Apparently not. But I just love that. As soon as money is involved in what you're doing, God walks out of the room.

Speaker 1:
[64:08] I love that. But, I mean.

Speaker 4:
[64:11] But again, this is coming from a guy that had a lot of that.

Speaker 1:
[64:15] It's a very nuanced thing. Because if you look at, I could give you two examples right now of artists being super money grubby. Miles Davis was notoriously just fucking, yeah, I'm not stepping into the studio without a check for $50,000 or whatever. There's a lot of that going on. I read this thing the other day that Lou Reed, he charged, I forget what it was, it was some obscene amount of money to a Tribe Called Quest for that sample.

Speaker 4:
[64:47] Walk in the Wild Side?

Speaker 1:
[64:47] Walk in the Wild Side.

Speaker 4:
[64:48] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:49] It's an instrumental sample that he didn't play.

Speaker 4:
[64:52] It's just the bass, right? That famous bass player played that, right?

Speaker 1:
[64:58] Now you get looked at up while I talk. We're not remembering anything today. Guys, we recorded late into the night last night. In our defense, our brains are a little slow this morning. But so anyways, you know, Lou Reed charges an obscene amount of money to, for something he didn't even fucking do. And there's a lot of examples of Lou Reed doing this and Miles Davis doing this. And these guys were not particularly happy or living creatively fruitful lives in the latter parts of their careers. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2:
[65:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[65:32] My point is that God may have walked out of the room, you know?

Speaker 2:
[65:35] Right.

Speaker 1:
[65:35] But then there are other artists who are just a bit more, shall we say, shrewd when it comes to money. That I'm thinking of Bob Dylan and I don't know, Metallica, and they're doing great. And they're making great stuff continuously. At least they're playing great stuff continuously.

Speaker 4:
[65:53] This gets better. The Lou Reed thing gets better. Herbie Flowers was the bass player. And apparently, Herbie Flowers was paid. He performed the bass hook on double bass, overlaid with an electric bass. He was paid.

Speaker 1:
[66:05] Really?

Speaker 4:
[66:05] He was paid in 2025, 2026 money. He was paid $375 for each bass line. So he's basically paid in our equivalent now, like $700, $800 to record that bass line. And then Lou Reed goes after the money when Tribe uses it.

Speaker 1:
[66:25] How much did he get? Does it say? How much Lou got? It was a big amount of money, but the hubris is insane. And I could see God being like, you know what, Lou, go fuck yourself. I'm out of here.

Speaker 4:
[66:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[66:39] At least until you forgive, until he asks for forgiveness.

Speaker 4:
[66:41] Right, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[66:42] He's saying sorry.

Speaker 4:
[66:43] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[66:46] Okay. All right. Quincy, have we wrapped on the outlandish shit that he has said?

Speaker 4:
[66:51] Outlandish, yeah. Yeah, there was this, reportedly, allegedly, Sinatra tried to get him to sleep with Marilyn Monroe and there was some of that pillow talk there. There's this great thing where he told the pope he had pimp shoes and he didn't say it to the pope, but he said it to somebody. He was with the pope and he said it to somebody else and the pope overheard him.

Speaker 1:
[67:14] I'm not gonna touch that.

Speaker 4:
[67:14] And he was just like, hey, listen, he's just a man. I'm not gonna touch that.

Speaker 1:
[67:20] I'm not gonna. Rich Pope, that must have been John Paul, right?

Speaker 4:
[67:23] I'm guessing it was, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[67:26] The second. Okay, all right, Dan, well, there's a Quincy Jones episode. There's a Quincy Jones episode.

Speaker 4:
[67:33] Of course, dude, he had run in with organized crime when he was a kid growing up. Oh yeah. I mean, there's incredible stories.

Speaker 1:
[67:38] I knew all that, but it's really God leaves the room when we talk about money is the big thing. I'm gonna have a ball with that. There's something really cool there. I wonder what Quincy Jones got paid for arranging the strings on Live at the Saints. No, I'm betting. I'll find that out. That'll be in the episode.

Speaker 4:
[67:53] Yeah, I'm sure Frankie took care of him.

Speaker 1:
[67:54] Yeah, I'm sure Sam Giancana took care of him. It was his club, his and Frank's club. All right, guys, thank you so much. I loved this subject. This is unexpected. I didn't think we'd be talking about this this morning. We've got Zeth, I don't know. I feel like I've been recording with you for like the last 24 hours straight.

Speaker 4:
[68:12] I do too, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[68:13] We got a lot of shit coming. We got a new This Film Should Be Played Loud coming to our All Access members on High Fidelity. And yeah, man, we got some wrecks in the Rap Party as well. Check that out over in the Hollywoodland feed.

Speaker 4:
[68:25] I am out of here.

Speaker 1:
[68:26] Thank you for supporting Disgraceland. I'll see you in the E-Block. All right, guys, we are back. Let's recap, shall we? My goodness, we talked about a lot of different artists. In this episode, I didn't even mention that it's Iggy Pop's birthday today when I'm recording this. So happy birthday, Iggy Pop. Iggy Pop episode, great episode from the archive. You want to check that out. That's in there. Talked about Nicky Six. We have a Nicky Six episode. We also got a Motley Crue episode. Two episodes, I guess, you could put it that way, on Motley Crue. Those are in the archive as well. Fiona Apple, I mentioned her, but we don't have an episode on her yet. I'm going to start researching that next week. Billy Corgan, should I do a Billy Corgan episode, a Smashing Pumpkins episode? Something about the shapeshifter. A lot of drugs there with Jimmy Chamberlain and all that. I'm sure I can find a way into the Smashing Pumpkins story. Mentioned Blondie, Black Sabbath, got an episode on Blondie, got an episode on Black Sabbath. You know all this. Anyways, the archive, that's where it's at. I got to get out of here, so let's recap. Number one, this week, Depeche Mode, available on your feed right now. Number two, Selena, coming up in the rewind slot this weekend on Sunday. Number three, next week's episode, our brand new episode on the Foo Fighters is going to have you asking the question, how did Taylor Hawkins die? Hopefully we're getting some answers. Number four, Zeth is going to give you those Hollywood and crime vibes in the Hollywoodland podcast, so make sure you are subscribed. You're also going to get my music recommendations over there in the Hollywoodland rap party. Number five, this film should be played loud. Our video podcast with our new episode on High Fidelity is coming next week. Number six, six one seven, nine oh six, six six three eight. Your voice keeps us digging into the dark corners of music history, so keep calling, keep texting, keep your answers coming to this week's question of the week or with whatever else you want to talk about. I'm here, all right? Number seven, don't forget Disgos. This isn't just content. It's a community, a community of the obsessed. No one cares about music. No one cares about books. No one cares about records and the crime and grime. It ties them all together like you do, and well, that's a disgrace. All right, sometime in May of 1996, Dave Gahan and Depeche Mode overdosed on a speedball at the Sunset Marquis Hotel in Hollywood, and here's what America was listening to on that day according to the Billboard charts. Number one, the Crossroads, Bone Thugs in Harmony. Last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, three. Number two, Always Be My Baby, Mariah Carey. Last week, two. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, eight. Number three, Because You Love Me from Up Close and Personal, Celine Dion. Last week, three. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, twelve. Number four, Nobody Knows, The Tony Rich Project. Last week, five. Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, 24. Number five, Ironic, Ones, Seven. Last week, four. Peak position, four. Weeks on chart, 11.