transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] Welcome to Your College Bound Kid.

Speaker 2:
[00:04] A podcast for parents, college counselors, students, and anyone who wants a deep dive into the world of college admissions.

Speaker 3:
[00:12] Hi, my name is Kate Strickland. I'm Associate Director of Application Review at the University of Colorado Boulder. I live in Boulder with my family, which includes a fifth-grader and a freshman in high school.

Speaker 4:
[00:24] Hi, I'm Susan, and I'm a college counselor and have read applications for a small liberal arts college and two research universities. My twins are recent college graduates.

Speaker 5:
[00:36] I'm Hillary Dickman, a parent of two and Senior Assistant Director of Admission at Colorado College.

Speaker 2:
[00:42] Hi, I'm Lisa, a clinical psychologist and a college counselor and a co-author of the book, The Calm College Amendment. I have one daughter who's graduated from college, one daughter who's about to go to college, and a son who's about to go to high school.

Speaker 1:
[00:57] Good afternoon, friends. I am really happy today. I'm in a great mood. When I was in Plantation, Florida doing an event there in February, college counselor came up to me and said, are you always that happy? You seem like you're always happy. I'm not always happy, but I am 99 percent of the time. I can remember two times when I wasn't happy. Once when I came on to record right after Kobe Bryant died, it was really hard because I've always liked Kobe Bryant ever since he was in high school. Went to high school, lower Barion High School, and I lived in Mount Airy at the time, which was close. Then the other time when I wasn't happy was episode 4. This is back when Anika and I started the podcast, and we didn't know what the heck we were doing, and we were committed. Every Thursday there has to be an episode. We can't be late. That was our commitment when we started this thing. And we had to record episode 4 four different times because we kept making, having issues with technology. So I wasn't happy then. But I'm pretty much always happy when I come in here. And the reason why I'm so happy is because I feel like I'm having like a meeting with my cyber friends. Like there is this parasocial rapport that you build with listeners. And then I've also gotten to know so many people outside of just the parasocial component. So, and I'm somebody who's very motivated by helping others. The more I feel like I'm helping others, the happier I'm going to get. And it's inevitable that people are going to respond to every episode with very specifics of how the episode helped them. And that's just like jet fuel in my engine. It supercharges me because you go into like nonprofit work, service work, education to make a difference, and it feels like you're making a difference. Now, even that I'm almost always happy, there's something that would make me jealous sometimes. And that is sometimes I would hear podcasts like The Daily for example is when it comes to mine from the New York Times. And you can just tell like, wow, they're working like a million with like a million dollar production budget. Like listen to the credits. That would kind of be nice. You know, but now I'm totally stoked because when I put out the request for volunteers, oh my goodness, we've had 13 step up. And I feel like we have an entire team. Three people have like podcast marketing experience. I mean, I'm talking about podcasts like Podsave America and podcasts like that that they worked on. So we're going to have tremendous help on the podcast marketing side. We've had multiple people step up with social media marketing experience and they're going to help there. So our plan now is to go to Instagram, LinkedIn, and to add and then help with YouTube as well. And then multiple people have stepped up and volunteered to help us contact interviewees. And I'll just name a few of the people that just this week responded to our volunteers reaching out to them. And I've either already had an initial meeting and now we're on to the next meeting, which is actually to do the interview, or I've got the initial meeting on my calendar for next week. So this isn't even all of them. Fairfield University, Loyola University in Maryland, IU, Indiana University in Bloomington, Lehigh, Case Western Reserve in Ohio. That's just a few in one week. So look for a change in the outro. I want to acknowledge everybody who's volunteering and give them credit where, you know, their credit is due. But I'm excited because I feel like we can take the podcast to a whole different level. And sure, within this college admission space, we have a lot of listeners and a lot of downloads, but there are so many people that we're not reaching, that could benefit from this. So I'm just excited. Now, I learned this from a former colleague of mine from South Carolina. It's a South Carolina phrase. When I used to work at KIPP, and she says, close the mouth, don't get fed. So I taught my kids that, right? I mean, speak up. So I do have one more request. If there's somebody who's service inclined and wants to help the podcast. So I've always wanted to have a tangible thank you for our donors. I mean, you're the ones who allows to be commercial free. Once again, when I was on that Florida trip, multiple people said, I love that you guys don't have commercials. Well, we can only do that because of donations. And so a while ago, I purchased a lot of materials. Like I'm talking about almost $1,000 of materials. Your College Bound Kid mugs, pens, to give us a tangible thank you to all of our donors. Swag. And it's just been sitting there. Like Anitra was going to send everything out through stamps.com. I don't talk about this a lot, but she has MS and has had it since her 30s. And some days she just doesn't have any energy like at all. And so I want to see if somebody wants to kind of step into that role. You wouldn't incur any costs at all. Ship you the mug, ship you the pens, pay for the postage, all the production costs, packaging, but you would be like writing the names of the people on the packages and mailing them. If that's of interest to you, send me an email at marketschoolmatchforyou.com or text me at 404-664-4340. Friends, YCBK PLUS is about to drop. That is our newsletter where we try to put some articles that are not behind paywalls that we didn't get a chance to discuss that we think would be of interest to our listeners. We have a few other things in there too. We announce events and things. But I want to let you know the articles that you will see in this current edition that's going on on Friday. There's one on how Hampshire College is about to close. You may remember years ago they're going to close and all this funding came in. Well, after the long-term round effort has come up short, so they're closing. There's another one on how students are earning credentials at much younger ages. There's one on Syracuse University because of their budget crisis, is offering retirement to 175 faculty in order to save money. There's one on how students are fighting scholarships on TikTok. There's one on how the Kansas Governor is about to sign a bill that will curb instruction on race. So public colleges won't be able to talk about race. And the Kansas Governor is about to sign that bill. Something that the Trump administration has been encouraging and he's going forward with it. There's one on how F1 student visa refusals are absolutely surging. Students have not been able to get their visas and how that's impacting colleges. And there's an article on how the judge is blocking the Trump's admission demands for data, admissions data. So Trump has been demanding admissions data so they can oversee it in 17 states and a judge blocked that. And then there's a really good article on aid admission trends that are changing college admissions. So if you want to receive that free newsletter, just go to yourcollegeboundkid.com and you will see a tab that says YCBK PLUS. Sign up and if you sign up, if you listen on Thursday and you sign up right away, you'll be able to get Friday's edition when it goes out for the month of April. All right friends, on today's episode. So you may remember, I mentioned that Mary Lachance, who's a tech guru and her brother who's a tech guru, they are forming a service that's really going to help a lot of families, and it's designed for under-resourced families that couldn't afford to hire a counselor to work with them. But you can get tremendous help through a free resource. And they're doing a webinar, and they're doing that webinar on June 1st. And the sign-up sheet is now up. So just go to yourcollegeboundkid.com, and you'll see it under the events page. And you can sign up, and you can learn about College App Pro. Now I've asked Mary to record a blurb so you know a little bit more about what she'll be covering in that webinar. So I'm going to play that blurb so you'll have a better understanding of like what will I actually be learning if I attend this session. By the way, College Counselors, you should absolutely be attending because it can be a tremendous resource for you, for students that you work with. And if you're an independent College Counselor and you come across under Resource Students, they can't afford to pay for help, you'll have a tremendous tool that you can direct them to. And then we have back-to-back questions from listeners. Two QFLs, yep, you guys have been bombarding us with the QFLs. We love them and we want to get to as many of them as we can. And so Kate joins me. And talking about hot off the press, we recorded this one yesterday. Yeah, we recorded it yesterday and it's going live today. Thanks to Lara from the suburban Philly area. She asked a question for a student. What are you supposed to do if you're undecided about your major and how does that impact your college choices? It's a great question. A lot of people have it. So, that'll be the first one we answer. And then I'm joined by Hilary and Susan to ask another question from a listener who wants to know what amount of rigor is actually needed for a baseball recruit. So, yeah, so that's a great question coming in to us from California. We'll answer that. And then the final part, Lisa will join me for our old style spotlight. I'm recounting my visit to the U, the University of Miami on February 22nd. I said I did an hour deep dive on that. And we've played part one last week. If you missed that, you might want to check it out. You get part two today and then the final part will be next Thursday. You know, I got a text from a South Florida listener this week who heard part one. And he was a graduate of the U and he said, I can't believe how much my alma mater has changed since I graduated from there in the 90s. So even if you think you know it, things change and I think you're going to enjoy hearing that breakdown. All right, let's transition to Mary giving us an overview of College at Pro.

Speaker 6:
[11:56] Thanks Mark for giving me time to talk about College at Pro and the webinar that we'll have on June 1st. Imagine your high school senior staring down the common app. Your school counselor has 500 other students to help and you can't afford a college coach. So where does that leave you? That's the gap College at Pro was built to close. At the center of our application is your personal coach, Claudia. She doesn't just hand you a checklist and wish you good luck. Claudia walks any student through the college application process step by step, nudging you down a curated path to acceptance. Whether that's building a balanced list of reach target and likely schools, helping you with topics for your personal essay, or sharpening the activities and honors lists. Here's how it works. First, discovery. Claudia matches you with colleges based on your grades, your scores, and what you actually want out of the next four years. Because affordability matters, every school on your list comes with an estimate of what your family can expect to pay based on their income. Then, storytelling. The box of you exercise that draws out your real stories so Claudia can generate personal essay topics rooted in your actual experiences, not generic prompts. She'll review the drafts with specific actionable feedback. She'll help you optimize your activities lists for maximum impact. When it's time to ask your teachers for recommendations, she helps you draft your request using real examples from your time in their class. Finally, execution. Claudia pulls the supplemental essay prompts from each of your colleges so nothing slips through the cracks. If you're a junior or senior wondering where to start, College at Pro is the coach anyone can afford. Because as Mark says, the goal is to make college knowledge available to all.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] All right, friends, let's hear the question from a listener. Kate joins me for this.

Speaker 7:
[13:57] And now it's time for a question from one of our listeners.

Speaker 1:
[14:07] Kate Strickland, how are you?

Speaker 3:
[14:09] I'm good, Mark. Good to be back.

Speaker 1:
[14:12] It's great to have you back, and I understand you've been traveling quite a bit lately. Where are your travels taking you?

Speaker 3:
[14:17] Yeah. So I headed out with Hillary. I carpooled out to Aspen and Durango with her and another colleague to do the Western Slope of Colorado case studies out there. We stopped by a couple schools in the region as well. And then I went from Durango down to Tucson, where I presented at the RIMACAC conference. And now I'm here in beautiful Berkeley, California for the Bay Area case studies week.

Speaker 1:
[14:48] Nice. What did you present at your regional ACAC conference? What was your topic?

Speaker 3:
[14:54] Yeah, the topic was, so I co- presented with our vice chancellor on kind of how to shape and select students, like kind of best practices. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:04] That's good stuff.

Speaker 3:
[15:06] I know. It's a meaty topic.

Speaker 1:
[15:08] Nice. I'm going to have to talk to you offline about that. I might want you to come on here and share some of that with our listeners.

Speaker 3:
[15:14] Yeah, that would be fun. So we even created a little game with tiles that had basic information about each applicant that the attendees had to move around and to admit, deny kind of thing. It's kind of fun to watch a bunch of admissions leadership with furrowed brow, play with my game tiles.

Speaker 1:
[15:37] I love it. Well, listen, Kate, we have a question from a regular listener, Lara from the Suburbs of Philly. She always asks great questions and this is no exception. So I'm going to play the question and then why don't you kick off your thoughts on her question and I'll chime in.

Speaker 3:
[15:54] Perfect.

Speaker 7:
[15:55] Hi, Mark and the YCBK team. This is Lara from the Philly Suburbs with another question for you. How would you advise students build their college lists when they don't really know what they want to study? With our first student, he had a pretty clear idea of what he wanted to study, so we were able to research his intended major and rule in or out schools based on what we learned. He's just finishing his freshman year and has already changed his major, so I know this isn't a foolproof method, but even with him, we looked at other majors within the school we expected he would be enrolling in to help us determine the best fit. For our current student, she has a lot of varied interests and just isn't as certain as her older brother. Is it better for her to apply and decided, or should she indicate a major that she has some interest in, even if she isn't 100% sure about it? We'd love to hear the advice of your team on how she should tackle this. I promise I did a search on the website for this and couldn't find anything. But if there's a past interviewer episode where you talked about this, please let me know. Thanks as always.

Speaker 1:
[16:54] Take it away. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3:
[16:57] Obviously, there's a lot of things that go into making your college list. But in terms of prioritizing this concept of having the availability to explore a bunch of different subjects, if the student is unsure. Things that would jump out to me that would be worth researching as you put your list together are to pick a school, and it doesn't even have to be a huge school, but if they have enough of a variety of majors, so that you don't discover your passion partway through your college career, and then feel compelled to have to transfer out to somewhere else. As I'm doing these case studies, the fictional university that we have, when we review the profile, it says that they offer 60 majors. But at CU, we offer over 200. And so there really is a big range. And it doesn't mean that your school has to have 30, 40, 50,000 students, but just ensuring that there is enough variety of subjects, I think is critical for the undecided student. I would also look for a school that offers or requires distribution requirements to graduate perhaps, rather than just an open curriculum, because that is when you're going to be forced, in a good way, to pick out a variety of classes across disciplines that could spark an interest. So when I went to college, I had a three-semester science requirement, and I almost ended up like an evolutionary anthro major, because I loved those classes so much, and that was a complete unexpected but delightful surprise. I would also look at schools that have, from what you can tell online or from reaching out, an internal transfer process between majors that is A, allowed, and B, relatively straightforward for at least for most of their programs, as this will give the listener's daughter the greatest flexibility as she is exploring her interests and she won't feel locked into one major per university policy. The last thing that I would look for, and this might be a little bit harder to tease out when doing research, but look for schools that are really promoting their interdisciplinary approach to teaching. I know that that's a buzzword that a lot of colleges, especially on their websites, are going to use. But a little deeper dive might be to see which campuses have centers for interdisciplinary studies or which ones offer the opportunity to design your own major. Those are the ones that are really going to speak to the fact that it's truly an institutional priority of that college to allow students to integrate various fields into their academic journey.

Speaker 1:
[20:04] I like all those points that you made. Those are great.

Speaker 3:
[20:07] Good.

Speaker 1:
[20:08] You know, point well taken, like a school with a lot more majors is a really good point, so you don't have to transfer if you discover later. You know, I learned definitely about the internal transfer because policies are all over the place about that. And especially for potential majors of interest, because some schools allow internal transfers, but certain very popular majors, they don't allow that for. Another thing that I would look at is just a couple of things. What is their attitude toward undecided, undeclared, like some schools, and you know, you're one of them there, Kate. You guys are very welcoming. Like when I visited you on a Council of Flying Program, it was very clear how much you welcome undeclared. I think they might have said it was your biggest major at times. Is that correct? I vaguely remember that.

Speaker 3:
[21:04] For a while, it was like one in four first-year students was in our undeclared program.

Speaker 1:
[21:11] So it's popular, right? And so I not only would want to listen to the rhetoric, but I would actually want to know numbers. Because if it's a school that has like one in four, then they're very welcoming. So those are things. And just for a reminder for our listeners, one of the most confusing parts of this process is the role college major plays or doesn't play in the admission process. There are schools that admit by major for every single major. And there's literally a different admit rate for every major. Then there's schools that admit by division of study. You can move around as much as you want within the division of study, also oftentimes called the college or the school. Then you have schools, sometimes they'll call it an open door policy, that they just admit you into the university at large. It doesn't matter if you're a business major engineering, they'll admit you into the university at large. Then for those that admit you into the university at large, some of them you just select whatever major you want, and then some of them have competitive application process once you're internally into the university, based on how you're doing academically, sometimes in the second year. Sometimes these processes are guided with more exploratory exposure to a lot of different things. There are a lot of different models out there as to how this is done, and I didn't even list all of them, I just listed some of the more common ones. Finding out the role major plays in the admission process, and definitely I would be wary of the admit by major, which isn't that common. Admit by division of studies is very common for larger schools. Admitting by major, but sometimes you'll find admit by division of study, but for certain super competitive majors, it's admit by major. So there's lots of variations, right? So in general, having a mindset of curriculum flexibility would be important. Finding out what the internal transfer process is like. What are your thoughts on the second part of our question? Is it better to say I'm undecided, undeclared or just to list one, and then you'll change later if you... You don't always get a choice because some schools ask you, but what are your thoughts?

Speaker 3:
[23:33] Yeah. So at CU, we look at our undeclared students, they're in their own bucket. So they're not being compared against the engineers or the finance applicants. I don't know. I would hope that that's how other schools do it. I don't really know.

Speaker 1:
[23:52] I mean, some schools do it like undeclared within the school or college.

Speaker 3:
[23:58] Yeah, and we have that option too. So at CU, there's absolutely, we call it exploratory studies. We love our explorers. Just like you said, Mark, that they're just a lot of different. So there are a lot of different flavors of it. And if you can get a sense of the schools on your list that offer undeclared, the caveat here might be what's, what chunk of the students, do they have spots to be offering undeclared too? Is it, is it like, you know, one in four like CU has done or is it just a sliver? Because that's when it might get, you know, more competitive to come in undeclared rather than under a major that seems interesting and reasonable to you.

Speaker 1:
[24:51] I find that some school, a lot of the schools that love undeclared, they're pretty clear about it. Like they like, and it's the way that you, you present it, you know, talking about CU on my fly in, it was presented in a very positive way. And it makes a lot of sense because a lot of times college students have the experience that you had at, you were talking about an undergrad at Columbia, is that what you're referring to?

Speaker 3:
[25:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:15] Yeah. A lot of times students have the experience that you had, Kate, where they come in and they start taking courses and decide that, oh, I love this. And a lot of times, and you'll find this particularly true with a lot of your real interdisciplinary schools, they love that, like they don't like the idea of somebody is intractable and their heels are dug in and they're coming in, and they're incorrigible and they just are inflexible. They don't like that because you're not really in a space of open-mindedness to what might be something you would find more fulfilling.

Speaker 3:
[25:48] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[25:49] So there are a lot of schools that really welcome that because they're like, okay, the person that does that, they're in a position to be able to potentially fall in love with something that the student that's got tunnel vision, that this is what I want to do, won't be able to. And not just everybody has to be the same way, because different kids can know at different times in their pilgrimage when they know what they want to do. But I would definitely look for that type of receptivity. The thing that I always tell students, because colleges love intellectual curiosity, it's very important that you do not present yourself as apathetic and disinterested. And it's important that you present yourself as multi-interested. And if you present yourself as multi-interested, you know, where, you know, like whatever. I love evolutionary biology, you know, but I also love general chemistry and physics or whatever. And I don't know which one I love the most, but I'm excited to come take courses and find out. That is very different than sort of just the shrug, what can come off like an apathetic, I don't know, I don't know vibe. Like that completely presents differently.

Speaker 3:
[27:00] Totally. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I love the essays of like, why do you want to study what you want to study? Where the exploratory studies students starts, well, I have this interest in this corner and then this other one. And I like, I'm really torn and I want to see if I can kind of blend them. And I'm like, ah, you are a true explorer. And that is wonderful. Yeah. And then, yeah, kind of to your point, like again, back to the list making. If you are seeing schools, like, you know, CU has like a huge website about, you know, coming in as exploratory studies, dedicated advisors. If the schools, if you're noticing those like very intentional undecided programs that they're promoting, that's a good sign that you're going to be in good hands and they're going to help you figure out your path. One other thing, I don't know if you could get this out of schools, but if you ask the schools on your list, what the percentage of students who graduate in four years, who start out undecided is, I think that could be interesting because if the rate is high, then you know that those advisors are helping those students make wise choices to get them into a major in a timely manner.

Speaker 1:
[28:23] I love that and I love your use of the word explorer, Kate, because that's the tone that the application needs to convey. That you're an explorer because that will convey that love of learning. Kate, this has been great. Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[28:40] It is a fantastic question.

Speaker 1:
[28:42] Thanks, Lara. All right, friends, let's transition to our second question from a listener for today. Brynn from Caramel Valley, California. All right, Susan and Hillary, we have a question from Brynn from Caramel Valley, California. I'm going to play it. Hillary, why don't you kick off our conversation and we'll have Susan chime in.

Speaker 8:
[29:04] Hi, this is Brynn from Caramel Valley, California. First off, I just really wanted to express appreciation for your podcast. I only have a son in sixth grade and one in second grade, but I was trying to get a basic understanding of the college application process because we're already having to make decisions in middle school that will affect high school. And I haven't been familiar with it since I was applying myself. Your podcast was one of the first ones I found and the most recent episode was on playing sports in college, which is my sixth grader's hope. So it was just such a blessing to have found YCBK and I'm really thankful for the sports episodes and all of your older content that is filling me in on all of the basics and really getting me up to speed. So thank you. So on to my question and regarding that sixth-grade son, of course, we're really, really early in the process and you never know how things will turn out or if their interests will change, but he's very interested in playing college baseball and I've been looking for guidance on the academic pathway for kids who are interested in playing college sports. I'm trying to understand what level of rigor he should pursue academically. He's doing great in middle school, balancing sports in school, but I realize the challenge is just going to increase. I've been hearing from parents of older kids at our high school that they can start taking AP classes their freshman year. I may be naive in this, but I'm thinking it might not be feasible to do it all well, to pursue a highly rigorous academic course load while also trying to play high level and travel sports that are really demanding of his time and energy. As a family, we really try to prioritize things like sleep and rest, trying to get healthy growth and spend time as a family together too. I realize he would need to meet the admission requirements for any school he's hoping to play for, but I would really appreciate your guidance on how rigorous the academic course load should be. I think based on his interests now, I would think that if he wasn't invited to play at a four-year university, my guess is that he would prefer to play at a community college and then hope to transfer and continue playing somewhere. But if his goals were to change somewhere in high school and he was no longer interested in playing ball, I'd still want him set up for success. I really appreciate your time and thank you for any feedback you can offer here.

Speaker 5:
[31:15] Great question, Brynn. First, I want to compliment your beautiful name. I also have a daughter named Brynn. Also, the beautiful Carmel Valley, California. Gosh, all these wonderful things. Thank you for all of your kind words about the podcast. We appreciate that. I'm really glad you're thinking about this early. Also, it's just really hard to tell because it's early. In order to set your student up for success both as a baseball, a potential baseball recruit, and as a student who may decide that he doesn't want to play baseball in college, I would just suggest dipping his toe into some rigor early on in high school. I think we've talked about on the podcast how some APs are harder than others. If your high school is offering AP human geography or something like that for the students as freshmen, that's probably not going to be so much rigor that it's going to keep your student from being able to sleep at night or being able to eat family meals, all of that kind of stuff. But it'll still show up as an AP. It'll get him used to what the requirements are for an AP class. I don't think that that would hurt. Then re-evaluate year to year based on what his interest level is. There is no reason why he needs to take all the APs that are available at his school. His school may offer 25 AP classes. You don't need to take 25 AP classes. But to be competitive in college admission, it'd be good if he takes a few just so that he can see how he can handle that rigor. I also think that that JC experience, the JC to full university track, is a really great option for students who are especially baseball players, but lots of athletes, and especially in California. That's a really well-worn track through college and certainly could help him. If he decides halfway through high school that like, yeah, these AP classes are not what I want to do, that's fine. And he's got the JC to UC system or Cal State system track available to him, and perhaps baseball recruitment. So he's got a lot of directions that he can go. And it's early and great that you're thinking about this and sort of open to different ideas. And I love that you're prioritizing his mental health, his physical health, the things that he loves to do. That is where your head should be right now as a mom of a sixth grader. I think you're really doing good work for him.

Speaker 1:
[33:51] Susan, what would you like to add?

Speaker 4:
[33:53] You've got the mom brigade here. And it's wonderful Brynn is asking these questions. I doubt there are very many moms, parents out there that are thinking along these lines. And the greatest favor that we can do for our children is keep them in that healthy balance place of rigor and achievement. Meaning, you know, and those of us who've read applications for various institutions see, especially boys, because they are slower to develop cognitively, they get over challenged, over faced, particularly in math. They get rushed by their schools because maybe they are identified as gifted or particularly capable in math. And so they get pushed and then they hit the wall. And they usually hit the wall in algebra or as they are going, like algebra 2. Ironically, we just recorded a question from a listener on this very topic. That tends to be where math changes into the realm of abstraction. And that's where a lot of kids don't have not developed cognitively as quickly. You know, the girls are starting to think abstractly, you know, 13 to 15. They're becoming more thoughtful problem solvers. They are becoming more critical in their thinking and reading. And the boys are like lost in space at this point. You know, they're in orbit out there thinking about other things, often until they're between 15 and 17 or even 17 and 19. You know, they're these different developmental windows. So, I agree that the best thing is to kind of keep an eye on your middle schoolers' natural development academically and athletically. Keep talking to his coaches about what they see his body doing. And again, coaches can forecast this for girls much earlier than for boys. Mark and I saw this at the school where we both worked, that D1 soccer programs would make offers to 10th grade girls, because they looked at the mind and the body and they knew what they were getting. Not so with boys. As we think about our skinny, gangly, immature, middle school, ninth grade boys, it's like we despair of any hope. But keep talking to the teachers, talk to the coaches, and stay in that realm of realistic balance, which is what we hear from you in your very thoughtful question, and listen to how ambitious he is. Because ambition, I don't think it should drive the bus, but we have a lot of great colleges and universities in the country that can accommodate very ambitious college athletes and be a good academic fit. There's just a lot to consider.

Speaker 5:
[37:27] I think one other thing that, sorry Mark, one other thing that I would say is that also remember that the point of taking AP classes is not just to get into college, right? It's to be prepared to succeed in college, and so like dipping his toe in the water, taking a few, seeing how they go, seeing if he enjoys that kind of rigor and challenge and if he can thrive in that environment will also be a good, give you a good sense of like what direction should we be going for colleges if we're not really thinking about baseball or even if we are thinking about baseball, because being able to thrive in a couple of AP classes, it's a good sign that you're doing college level work and you could thrive in a rigorous university environment. So it both serves you for getting in if he decides, if he's either not the kind of kid who coaches going to go to bat for, or if he decides not that he doesn't want to be recruited, it will help him not just get into college, but thrive in college.

Speaker 4:
[38:35] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[38:36] Yeah. First of all, I want to echo what Susan and Hilary both said. Thank you for your kind words, Brian, about the podcast and thank you for your focus on balance in his life and healthy living. I want to slightly reframe this. You had asked what level of rigor should he pursue if that's his goal. I recommend your focus is on what level of rigor is appropriate for him. One of the things that can get people in trouble and get them over their head is this notion that I have to take so much rigor, and then the kid drowns in the rigor, and it doesn't help you forgetting in a college admissions and it's a very miserable experience, so you kind of lose-lose. I get this question a lot in the counseling room. I say the way I answer it, here are five tests I want you to take, and I want to see you go five for five on this. When you're trying to decide whether to take the harder class or not. First of all, does the student want to take it? Because I don't see value in forcing a kid to take something they really don't want to take. What you brought up, can I have work-life balance? Is there going to be work-life balance? I don't think your high school years should be drudgery, so am I going to hate my high school experience? Is it going to be good for my mental health? And then the last one, and this is a bit trickier, and I've changed a little bit on this, because if you're saying I want my student to be prepared to do well in college, I'd have a slightly different answer than if it's a college admission focus. I used to say, are you going to get a B plus or higher? Because taking a hard class and not getting a good grade is not going to help you. But there's so much great inflation out there. When I have kids who are asking me to set the most selective levels, honestly, I'm saying an A minus. Or do you think you could get an A minus at the most selective levels? So I've slightly changed on that. Now, we don't know if you're looking at the most selective levels academically. There's a lot of different things, components to that. The two other things that I like to add to the advice I give families is this. Talk to the teacher who's teaching your son in different subject matters, and ask them what they think about your son taking the AP class. Why do I like to do that? One, they know your student really, let's just use math, for example. They know your student as a math student. They also tend to know the curriculum, they tend to know the other teachers in the department, and they're usually in a really good place to be able to give advice as to whether or not they think it would be appropriate based on them knowing your student, knowing the other teachers, knowing the curriculum. Then the other thing I say, if you're still on the fence, is go for the more rigorous class, but know what the drop-add date is. Right. The drop-add date or the withdraw date is the time when you can pull out of a class and it won't show up on your transcript as a withdrawn class. Because it's easier to take the more rigorous class, and then if you're drowning in their drop-down to regular, then it is to do the opposite, and to take the safer route, and then to get in there and say, oh, I really know this, I can handle more. Now you're trying to switch up, and now you're behind. So those are the other two things that I do in that. Even that your son's in six, I still think all those things still apply. Any other thoughts for anyone? Any angle we haven't covered on this?

Speaker 4:
[42:18] No, I think that's great, Mark. Being engaged with the people who see your child on a daily basis at school and are watching their growth and see how they deal with challenges. The only thing I would say is let's not overemphasize APs here. I'm thinking of all of the people whose kids attend schools that have very limited APs or have a different curriculum.

Speaker 1:
[42:45] Or Susan, even if you're trying to decide between the regular honors or regular advances, it's the exact same principle. Whether it's AP or it's honors or advanced or it's a school that doesn't have APs, it's the same concept of do I take the hardest class in the subject or a different class? No, I'm glad you brought that up.

Speaker 4:
[43:04] And colleges will always look at an applicant in the context of what their school is offering because there are so many different curricular models out there and colleges respect all of them. But they're always going to look and say, OK, what was here? But the other thing that colleges always look at is growth over time. So the student who develops strength throughout high school and makes moves to accommodate those strengths, to grow in those areas of strength. So I always, me, I hate to over emphasize AP because there are so many other ways that kids are challenged and can show excellence in high school.

Speaker 1:
[43:52] Now, thanks. Points well taken. Thank you, Susan. Thank you, Hilary. Friends, about a week ago, a listener chimed in and shared how the Public Service Fellows Program at Franklin and Marshall is grinding his gears. Because what they do is they fill up the 16 spots. And of course, this comes with the scholarship and it's a credible program on a first-come-first-serve basis. And it's feeling like the student's son is getting forced into have to commit to this program without getting to compare and see what other schools he gets in. So we said at the end of that podcast, I said, let's reach out to Michael Keaton. You know, if that name sounds familiar. Julia and I interviewed Michael when he was over there, sign his office, used to be the VP of enrollment there. And now he's the Dean of Admission at Franklin and Marshall. So we did reach out to Michael this week. And this is what he said. He did confirm. He said the first 16 spots, the first 16 people to respond, get a spot to the offer. After that, people go on the waitlist in case anybody drops out. He mentioned that being in this cohort is extremely valuable in addition to the scholarship, just the cohort and the chemistry and the bonding and all of that. He said the other scholarships don't work the way this one does. This one is unique. And there's just a tremendous demand for it. He did say a student could accept and decline later. This is not an ED commitment. So there you go. Hopefully that's a helpful answer to reconcile that question that came in. I believe it was last week, but the weeks are kind of merging together for me. All right, friends, let's transition to part two of three of my interview. Early on, we call Spotlight with Lisa on University of Miami. It's really more of a visit feedback report.

Speaker 7:
[45:45] And now it's time for our College Spotlight of the Week.

Speaker 1:
[45:55] All right, friends, time for part two of three. Lisa is joining me again to talk about the U, the University of Miami. So let's dive right in. I mean, if you want country club amenities type facilities and everything and state of the art, like yeah, and if you either can afford it or you get the financial aid, great. But just look up the price for Lakeside Village and Centennial Village, like it is a lot of money. Sit down.

Speaker 2:
[46:21] Yeah. Get a fan, you know.

Speaker 1:
[46:24] Yeah. Yeah. So that's something that's worth. I think most people will probably love it if they can afford it, and if they're getting financial aid, then they're going to absolutely love it. It's definitely not what I remember with corridor style traditional dorm experience life. It's definitely not that, Lisa.

Speaker 2:
[46:44] Well, and it's just interesting because I know when I was touring, we saw a lot of different colleges and some of them were saying we had to build new dorms because that was costing us students, which I totally get, who wants to live in a dumpy place? On the other hand, the research shows that the crudder your dorm room is, the better you adjust and get involved in the school because it is not fun to be hanging out in your room. So you are always in the lounge or at the library or on the lawn or somewhere else, and that is really what promotes engagement. So I feel mixed about that. From a business perspective, I know it's very important to students what their dorm looks like, and they really do prefer private bathrooms and their own rooms and things like that.

Speaker 1:
[47:32] Yeah, I think the old style is a tough sell because now so many others have it too. So like that before, I didn't envision anything other than 56 people on a hall floor and one community bathroom. That's all I knew. But once you start staying at the Four Seasons and the Ritz, you might not want to go back to Motel 6.

Speaker 2:
[47:51] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[47:52] That's kind of what happens. Let's talk a little bit about admissions. So one recommendation, they've been changing their custom prompt up quite a bit for the last few years. This one's like how you add diversity. For a while, you had to talk about their ibis, their bird and how it symbolizes perseverance and grit. You had to talk about how you've shown perseverance and grit. They do like that, and they do put a pretty big focus on that particular essay as well as the personal statement. They're going back to mandatory testing. Now, the interesting thing, if you went in a common data set for 2023, 2024, they've been listing testing as very important even when they were test optional. So, yeah, but effective this fall, testing is going to be required there. It doesn't surprise me partly because, remember, Florida was the only state that never moved to when test optional even the first year of the pandemic. Yeah, yeah. So that's the culture of the state, and they have had a surge in applications. I mean, they're down to an 18 percent admit rate. More women than men, no surprise, 32,000 women applied, 21,000 men apply. 3.89 is the average unweighted GPA, so not a lot of room for non-As in there. But once again, it's very important when we say averages are not cutoffs. So people hear that as, oh, I have a 3.81, I'm not getting in. That's not what that means. That's a median, it's a median, middle 50 percent, that's the middle GPA of 3.89. Just like the middle SAT and the middle ACT has been 700, the median score. Pretty much everybody's in the 700s and 600s, high 600s mostly unless you're a very hooked applicant. If you're not coming in as a really hooked applicant, you really need to be in the 700s or high 600s to be competitive. Obviously, certain programs are more competitive than others. One thing I do really like about the school a lot is, it is the most northern of all the Florida schools by far, in terms of the demographics of the students. Not just northern, but national. All the tour guides, they were from all over the place. A bunch of them introduced, and the students you meet were all over the place. I mean, Chica told me when she first got there, she felt she was in New Jersey because everybody felt like they're from New Jersey. But their research indicates they are 66 percent Florida. They go back and forth between 8 to 12 international, and they have large swaths of kids from New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, California, and Illinois. Lisa, did you find it was popular in Chicago suburbs?

Speaker 2:
[50:49] No. I think that probably now it is more popular because Southern schools are more of interest, but people were not going south.

Speaker 1:
[51:01] That's interesting. Then again, you've been gone almost seven years now, haven't you, Lisa? Six at least.

Speaker 2:
[51:05] Six years. I think there's a lot more interest now. Even like, Elon didn't have any interest now. I have a lot of kids from Illinois wanting to apply there. So I think it's just the world never stops changing in that regard.

Speaker 1:
[51:20] I remember talking to a very senior person at Miami. This was in 2019 or 2020. They had dispatched regionals to Chicago and Atlanta. So he wanted me to connect with the Atlanta one, and I actually ended up doing two events with the Atlanta one. But so yeah, so they've had a regional, at least one working the Chicago market, because Illinois is showing up as their six biggest state right now. It's Florida 1, New York 2, New Jersey 3, Massachusetts 4, California 5, and Illinois 6. So Illinois is higher than states like Georgia and Texas. So yeah, so things have changed.

Speaker 2:
[52:03] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[52:03] And no surprise that you have noticed an increase in Illinois students at Elon, because when I interviewed Greg Zeiser about a year ago, the VP of enrollment at Elon, he said they've dispatched a regional to the Chicago market, and they've identified it as a top market for them. And I've seen at least two of my students go from Illinois to Elon.

Speaker 2:
[52:24] Well, you know, and I was just in one little part of the ecosystem there, you know, and I'm sure maybe in like, maybe at Nutri or some of the private schools, they were already hip to all that Miami has to offer. Us provincial folks were just, you know, not even thinking about anything at all. So, you know, it could just be me.

Speaker 1:
[52:46] Yeah, I hear you. So a little bit more about the student body. 24% Hispanic Latino, 8% Black, 8% to 12% International, depending on the year, 5% Asian, 4% biracial or multicultural. 1 in 5 students are in fraternities or sororities. And something else I want to say about admissions is a few more things. So they have a 24% yield. So for those of you who knew that yield is the percentage of people to say yes to your offer. So about 1 in 4 are attending. 9% acceptance rate off the wait list. And they do offer Early Action, Early Decision 1 and Early Decision 2, all 3. Which has been a growing trend for a while with private schools. So EA of course be non-binding and then 2 rounds of binding early decision. All students are automatically considered for merit scholarships. And some of their merit scholarships are pretty large. You know, I have several students there on some very generous merit scholarships, like full tuition, 3 of them at least, 3 or 4 that I have there on full tuition. Those are what they consider their premier scholarships. And you have to make that 11-1 deadline for that. I remember one year, Lisa, I was working with a student who got notified that she was a candidate for a full cost of attendance scholarship. But she had to have her application in by the 7th. And it went to her junk. I mean, by the 1st, she discovered it on the 7th, and we tried everything we could, and it was like no siree bob. You know what I mean? No. By the way, that student ended up getting a Richmond Scholar, you know that? That's the full cost of attendance at Richmond where your daughter's going.

Speaker 2:
[54:35] So they're fine. They're okay.

Speaker 1:
[54:36] Yeah. Oh, we need to make an announcement. Lisa, it's time. So listen, you guys, you need to know.

Speaker 2:
[54:41] Well, you already made the announcement.

Speaker 1:
[54:43] I know. I know. I caught myself. Maybe people didn't hear it. But so Lisa is so sensitive. The last time I recorded it with Lisa, I'm like, do we want to tell everybody? And whatever topic we were talking about, it would have been really insensitive to celebrate your daughter's announcement. Were you talking about a handling rejection or something?

Speaker 2:
[55:01] Yes. Yeah. I was like, this is maybe not the time.

Speaker 1:
[55:03] Yeah. So we pushed it off. So why don't I take a pause here? And let me save it for the end because that'll be awkward if I put this up on the website. And it's like right in the middle of the Richmond, right in the middle of the Miami Spotlight, there's like this huge, you know, Deviation.

Speaker 2:
[55:22] To another school.

Speaker 1:
[55:23] Yes, to another school.

Speaker 2:
[55:25] To another Miami, you know.

Speaker 1:
[55:26] Yes. So we're going to save that for the end. We'll save that for the end, even though I spoiled it already. So they have some generous scholarships. Their premier scholarships are tuition and full tuition and above. And they've got some really, really good ones. Now, I did have a conversation with a former Miami grad and admission officer who's now on the counseling side. Because when I was down there, I did four events and one of them was event for counselors. And I spent a lot of time with this admission officer who's now on the counseling side, but she left the University of Miami. Well, she went from being a student right into admission officer and she hadn't left there that long ago. And she loved her, the U, but she was really sad about some of the changes. Some of the scholarships have been cut back. And some of the work that Miami was doing for DACA students, which she absolutely loved, has been cut back just for political things that are happening all over the country. So she was in tears talking about that. But they still have some of their real premier scholarships. It can be a very, very good scholarship school. And they had some special ones just for Georgia students, too. Well, you know, like Publix. So Publix, some of you may not know, but Publix is a shopping chain that's founded in Florida. And the Jenkins family. And so there's some special scholarships that are like for Florida, Georgia, and maybe might be one other state. So yeah, some of my kids cleaned up on those. But they have a lot of national stuff as well. So yeah, so it can be a great mayor's scholarship school. It's one thing when you see a sticker price pushing 100 grand, and it's a place like Northwestern or BC. And if you don't qualify for any need base, you know like I'm paying 100 grand. But at least at Miami, you have a shot at getting some something pretty land. And this year, I saw quite a few students get into Miami and they pretty much all of them were getting merit money. I mean, it would range from like 18,000 on up. So I didn't look up this percentage of people they actually get merit money at some level, but I know it's sizable because I see the packages that come in. Any thoughts at all on anything I've said on admissions so far, Lisa?

Speaker 2:
[57:50] Do you know the percentage of students in the first year class that come through Early Decision versus the other admission programs?

Speaker 1:
[57:58] I don't know it off the top of my head, but I know that it's not like what you see at schools, like the Emory's and the Davidson's that are like 60 percent, or even the 50 percent like the Dukes and the Northwestern's, and certainly not like the Claremont-Mackenna's that are like pushing 70 or Bates. I want to say it's about one in three. Let me see if I can look. I'm going to look it up right quick and edit this out. How's that? All right. All right. I was pretty close. What did I say? Did I say 30s? Yeah. It's 39. So just so you know, listeners, I'm not brilliant. I paused and looked it up. 39 percent come, that's both ED1 and ED2. Another 38 percent from early action and 23 percent from regular decision. So that's helpful. One thing that admission officers are quick to point out, that doesn't mean that only 61 percent of the offers are not coming through regular decision or regular, because think about it. I already told you guys there's a 24 percent yield. If you take 40 percent of kids and say, okay, they're locked in, then that means they have to make quite a few offers to get that other group. There are a lot of offers out there. I don't know, this is just experiential. I felt for a while that Miami was going the direction of Chicago, EAED or Bust. But I feel like I saw quite a few kids get in regular this year. Certainly, early action, I saw quite a few kids get in early action. I think the statistics indicate that. I know some other counselors that I network with were feeling like Miami the last previous years, was going in the direction of just using EA to steer you to ED. But the statistics back up, they are accepting quite a few people, EA and regular and my own experience as a counselor backs that up as well. It's not a school where I feel like if you don't apply ED, you're screwed.

Speaker 2:
[60:12] Yeah. The only other thing I would say, and this is old information, but they had this portal when Lily applied. It was very confusing to know what was going on. But they would have green dots or red dots next to people's name, and you would not believe the Internet shatter that went on where people were trying to ascertain what it meant if you had one green dot, two green dots, one red dot, and one green dot, and there was many, many theories. I don't know how it all ended up because I just got overwhelmed by all of the dots. But I hope that they don't have that dot system because that was clearly and I'm sure it was unintentional driving people crazy.

Speaker 1:
[60:53] One thing that makes her job interesting is schools can change over time, and they make changes like, yeah, a lot of times the core who you are stays pretty constant, but sometimes over time you can see some pretty significant changes, so maybe that's one of them. Doesn't sound like the dot system was working.

Speaker 2:
[61:11] I really hope so. Yeah, it was just very, it was chaos, dot chaos.

Speaker 1:
[61:16] So listen, I would be remiss without saying that Miami is one of the most spirited schools you're going to see. Everyone wearing merch, there is a lot of school spirit, and there is a lot of athletic school spirit. There's a lot of pride in the sports teams. Football, of course, is at the core of it, but it's not just football. When I was on the Info Session, the Admission Officer was like, there's a women's basketball game this afternoon. There's a men's baseball game. Go check it out. Tickets are free. I want you to see our school spirit. I toured on a Sunday. Have you ever done a Sunday tour, Lisa?

Speaker 2:
[61:54] No, I've never even been offered the opportunity to tour on a Sunday.

Speaker 1:
[61:58] I had never done a Sunday. They had options on Sunday at 10, 12, and 2. Yeah, my first time ever doing an official Sunday tour other than meeting a student and doing my own thing. It is very, very spirited. It reminds me of Duke that way. You know how Duke is very spirited?

Speaker 2:
[62:20] Yeah, we're all very aware of that over here in Chapel Hill.

Speaker 1:
[62:23] Yeah, I'm sure you are. You're in Chapel Hill eight miles away. You know.

Speaker 2:
[62:27] Yeah, we know, we hear it, you know.

Speaker 1:
[62:29] Yes. Yes, it is a very spirited place. And the thing is, I would, so I sometimes differentiate between athletic school spirit and just overall spirit. I say it has both. Like, it has, sometimes I'll work with a student and they'll be like, I want a spirited place. It doesn't have to be athletic spirit. But what they mean by that is I want a place where people are proud to be there. That is Miami. People have so much school of pride there. And it's just the vibe. The vibe is just, it's a, it's a very, the energy, it's a very positive energy at that place. And it's a, it's a, people feel really proud to be there. They feel so fortunate to be there. And, you know, I think some of it is the sun and the fun and the beautiful campus. I really do. Yeah. Okay, friends, this concludes part two of three of our breakdown of the U. Hope you join us next week for the final part. All right, friends, on Monday's episode, Heath Einstein's back. And I've been getting great feedback on the segment he's been doing on understanding college resumes. And I think this one is just as good as the last one. So it's the final part, part three of three. And then my two students, Lauren Jimerson, Sophie Gerdes, they are up to talk about San Diego State University. And it's part two of three is they help us to understand SDSU. And friends, it's decision-making time. I mean, we are really, really down to the clutch. So I'm ending with some of my favorite endings. Last week, it was Heath Einstein. It was on Monday, it was Heath Einstein. And today you're going to hear words of wisdom from Chris Gruber, VP of Enrollment at my daughter's alma mater, Davidson College. Listen to some wisdom from Chris. All right, last question. Your best, well, it's really two, but your best advice for students? I'm gonna give you three, because you're smooching your feet. You keep changing the number.

Speaker 9:
[64:27] What's the deal here? Come on, you're a professional interviewer. What are you doing?

Speaker 1:
[64:32] Being unprofessional. Best advice to students, parents, and college counselors.

Speaker 9:
[64:39] Yeah. I think for students, one is gonna be, I appreciate that you have more control of this process than you ever think. You do. There's so much of it that you can shape. Do things early, do things in a timely fashion, and you're going to do very, very well. I know that there's not just one place. I think there are a variety of places that you can go to. Treat it as though it's almost an additional course. Spend some good, good time on it, because I think where you spend your next four years can be a powerful, powerful thing for you. So there's one. To the parents, I think students feel a lot of pressure in this process. The greatest thing to do is tell your students right now, before they're starting the college search process, that you're proud of them. And it will have nothing to do with the label that you put on the back of the car, or the sticker, or the sweatshirt, or the hat that you ultimately end up wearing down the road. You're proud now, and it doesn't have to do with where they're getting into college. And with counselors, it's always going to be, know that we're in this together. We are partners, we are colleagues, and we are here to serve. And I know that there's a lot of places that you need to be managing and understanding, but let us know how we can help you. We're ready to do it at any step of the game.

Speaker 1:
[65:57] See you on Monday, friends. And that's our show. Big thank you to you, our listeners, for tuning in this week. If you find this podcast helpful, please follow us and you will get every single episode as soon as they are released. If you want to support our podcast, you can click the share button and send it to your friends and acquaintances. You can say positive things about your College Bound Kid on social media feed and you can help us stay commercial free and pay our staff by donating on your CollegeBoundKid.website. You can write a review for us on Apple or Spotify. If you have a question or a recommendation, just go to speakpek.com/ycbk, hit the orange button and speak. We will do our best to get your question in your own voice on an upcoming episode. I am the producer of the podcast and I live in Metro Atlanta. We have a fantastic team that has over 200 years of admissions and counseling experience. Shout out to our co-hosts Dr. Lisa Rouff in North Carolina, Susan Tree in Pennsylvania, Vince Garcia in California, Julia Esquivel in Massachusetts, Lynda Doepker in Missouri, Andy Strickler, the Chief Enrollment Officer at Connecticut College, New London, Connecticut, Hillary Dickman, an Admission Officer at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, and our International Admissions Expert, Kevin Newton in Dallas, Texas. Our Sensational Sound Engineer is Damania Motvich. Our Amazing Music is from Victor Allen Weeks. Marketing Designs from Kimberly Bloss. Our Reliable Webmaster is Stallionis Dimitriou. Website Updates are done by Joyce Stucker. Our Image Editor is Vlad Hanchar. If you want to have a coaching session with me, just text me at 404-664-4340. If you want to reach someone else on our team, all of our bios with contact info can be found at yourcollegeboundkid.com. If you want to get our free monthly YCBK newsletter, YCBK Plus, hit us also under the About YCBK tab. If you want to see our recommended books and websites, they are on our website under the Resources tab. While you're on our website, check out our hundreds of interviews in their entirety. Check out our college spotlights, our blog, and our upcoming events. We think of you as our listening family, and we look forward to meeting with you every single Monday and every single Thursday.