transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[01:35] Welcome back to The Pod Has Spoken. We're still reeling from Rick's Fake Idol last week, and trying to wrap our heads around it, as are the contestants on this episode of Survivor, episode nine. We have our faithful co-hosts here, Riley McAtee and Ashleigh Smith, also our producer. And since this season is in the hands of the fans, we ourselves brought on a fan of the show, also head of content at The Ringer, host of The Big Picture, and just launched a new newsletter, Sean Fennessey. Sean, how are you doing?

Speaker 3:
[02:19] I'm doing great. I feel honored to be in Tyson's presence. Thank you, Tyson, for this. Riley I've known since he was like 19 years old, so it's not as exciting to be with Riley, but and Ashleigh a pleasure as well. I'm a huge Survivor dork, so I'm happy to be here with you guys.

Speaker 2:
[02:34] Okay. Well, this episode of our podcast will also be titled In the Hand of a Fan, which I think that this episode of Survivor should have been called since Jimmy Fallon had so much to do with it. Are you liking these celebrity twists, Sean, as a fan of the show? Because for me, I have my opinions, but I obviously have a different perspective.

Speaker 3:
[02:58] This was the first episode where I felt maybe the thumb was pushing down a little too hard on the scale. That's what I'll say. I enjoy the creativity. I enjoy learning that extremely famous people are as into the show as we all are. I think Jimmy Fallon's experience and how it relates to who was eliminated bummed me out a little bit, but I'm curious what everybody else thinks.

Speaker 2:
[03:23] Do you prefer that maybe we just watch Jimmy Fallon spearfish for a couple of hours?

Speaker 3:
[03:32] I don't want to watch that. I got to be honest.

Speaker 2:
[03:39] You said this was the first one that you really didn't love. I just thought, and we get the teaser for Mr. Beast coming on, bringing a briefcase with something or other. You have that to look forward to. What about the Billie Eilish boomerang idol? You into that?

Speaker 3:
[04:00] Clever idea. I don't think we've really seen its impact quite thunder yet. I think there's been a lot of idol talk, very little idol play thus far this season. I'm hoping for some more idol play in the future. I do think because you have so many sophisticated strategists in this season, there's a lot of discussion of what could happen and not a lot of happening happening. And so I'd like to see the execution of some of these things. So it felt like where there had been so much discussion about what it would mean to get a boomerang idol and what it would mean for it to boomerang back to someone. Today's episode felt like the first time this whole season where there was like dramatic impact based on these celebrity inclusions in the show. And so it felt a little bit like whiplash where there had been a lot of speculative action around what could happen. And then all of a sudden it was just sort of like, well, this happened to Christian and then he's out, you know, which feels unusual for this show.

Speaker 4:
[04:59] With a couple of these celebrity twists too, I'm not like fully opposed to them either, but I don't know why because the strategists on this season are so good and experienced, these twists are like for whatever reason designed to not take advantage of that and instead put them in a box. Like with Christian it's like, okay, he has to vote for himself at Tribal. I don't know why he has to announce that to the whole tribe as opposed to giving him the chance to go back and lie about it and say he got something he didn't, and try to move the vote somewhere else. He was just kind of a sitting duck because he was forced to read that. Same with the Billie Eilish Idol, it's like they can't transfer it to somebody else and they can't play it on somebody else.

Speaker 2:
[05:41] Everyone knows that.

Speaker 4:
[05:42] Right, and everyone knows. So you have some of these great strategists and they're just sitting here with this idol, they can't actually use creatively. That's where some of these are. It's like, okay, I'm actually kind of into the Boomerang Idol but I'm not into this idea that it's like, now you can no longer do-

Speaker 2:
[05:58] The Billie Eilish Boomerang Idol.

Speaker 4:
[06:00] Sorry.

Speaker 2:
[06:00] By law, we have to include William I. Lash from LinkedIn, his idea. Riley, to that note on the, Sean, you okay over there?

Speaker 3:
[06:15] No, I'm just, who will pop up next? Will it be a member of Trump's cabinet? Who else could participate here?

Speaker 2:
[06:22] Anybody. Yes, some of them have free time now. I-

Speaker 4:
[06:28] Josh Patel, yeah, I think he can show up.

Speaker 2:
[06:31] Finally. I wanted to talk about Christian having to read the note. He should have read the note, not that it would have made a difference, because the note was- but what if the note had been actually like super positive and he didn't know? So he came back, he's like, I lost, I have to read this in front of you. I lost everything. He should have read it first and then done it some explaining because maybe it didn't tell the full story. It did end up telling the full story. It wouldn't have mattered, but it could have been a blunder had he opened it. And it been like, you get to spend the day with Jimmy Fallon on a yacht watching him spearfish. You can't also spearfish and you don't get to eat any of it, but you get to watch it and you get to have a front row seat to his confessionals about spearfishing. Like that could have been interesting.

Speaker 3:
[07:21] You're interested in Jimmy Fallon's spearfishing adventures, Tyson. Like, is this something that you want? Like, are you just trying to spear this into the world?

Speaker 2:
[07:28] I think, I do think yes. I think if you're going to have the country singer do the spearfishing, then every celebrity should have to do the spearfishing. Let's watch. Like even if that's not their thing, like you don't enjoy spearfishing, well, too bad. That's what we decided for the celebrities this season. But yeah, let's get into Rick's fake idol because we ended last episode with that last week, and now the first half of this episode was everyone trying to pivot around this idol, wrap their heads around it. Do you like this play by Rick or is it too big? What do you think are the repercussions? Because we didn't fully see them this week, but I do believe that he might have gone a little too hard with it.

Speaker 3:
[08:17] Well, that was what was communicated in the episode, right? That everyone on the island felt, well, this was a bridge too far, and this is great for my game because Devons has put a big red arrow directly over his head, and this will be an easy way to mark him out of the game. Then as is so often the case, something else happens and everyone gets distracted, and then all of a sudden Devons lives another day, maybe another day to find an idol, because obviously he is a finder of idols historically. I felt like maybe the edit wrong-footed us a little bit too with how offended everyone was by Devon's play. I loved the play. I thought when he and Christian cooked it up however many episodes ago, it was inspired. I think this season needs some of that energy. I think there's a little bit too much either brawn or brain, and there hasn't been quite enough mischief. And so I love what he's bringing to the show this season so far. And I think it probably will ultimately bite him. I don't see a raft of people voting for him in Final Tribal. I could be wrong about that. But within 20 minutes on this episode, nobody really was going to vote out Rick after we saw what was going to transpire with Christian. And so yeah, he'll be okay. And now even just based on what we saw in the previews for next episode, is Devon's even in the firing line at this point? I don't even know. So it's just a testimony, I think, to how quickly things can change. And also a testimony just like what a fun TV character he is and has been when he's been on the show. He just brings in an energy and kind of an oddness, you know? He's really pleased with his persona in a way that I find entertaining. So I like watching him.

Speaker 2:
[09:54] Yeah. I can relate to being pleased with oneself on television. If I were there and I watched Rick do this last week at Tribal Council and I was live, I feel like I would have to make him my target because it was so fucking cool. I would be like, nobody out cools this guy. He just has to go. I have to maintain my number one cool status. So for me, I don't know if I could take the blinders off. I hope that I could, but I would be like, I can't let him shine. I can't let him shine. I've got to shine. I think for me, and I believe that with egos playing with returning players, there is some of that. That was a really cool thing. We can't let him get further because he'll do more cool things, and then all of a sudden, my screen time's gone. So I think there is a little bit of that, but like you said, it did pivot. Also, before we get to the immunity challenge and all of the craziness, we still have like Saree leading fully in charge, fully in charge. Like she talks us through her alliances.

Speaker 4:
[11:04] She's connected to every single person.

Speaker 2:
[11:07] How is she getting away with this, Sean?

Speaker 3:
[11:11] I don't know. I mean, you know her. I don't. She just seems cool, man. It's like sometimes you just want to hang out with somebody. Yes, someone's just cool. They have a great energy. Yeah. She seems warm. She seems likable. She's obviously very smart. She understands the game. She never oversteps. She never overplays. And I've been saying with all my Survivor dork friends every Friday night when we convened to talk about the show, they're like, winners at it? Everybody would want her to win. Everybody likes her. There's just something very positive. I'm also fascinated by the way that Ozzy is being portrayed this season too and everything that he's doing. I think in these last two episodes, we've seen him get maybe just a little bit more point of view and credit for strategy, which is something he historically does not get credit for or is even shown doing. So those two figures are such hallowed characters in the history of the show who haven't won. We like rooting for them and we like watching them. I bring a lot to them and they bring a lot to the experience of watching the show. So I think it's just as easy as with Surrey when you have someone in your life that you like spending time with. You never want to go against them. You never want to do anything bad to them. Now Tyson, you were cutthroat. You would kill even if you loved someone, you know?

Speaker 2:
[12:32] But here's the issue.

Speaker 3:
[12:33] What would you do if you were in this position?

Speaker 2:
[12:35] The issue is that I also understand Surrey's power. So going to someone else, even if they're not in your alliance, and being like, hey, are you with Surrey? And then them being like, yes, and then me being like, she's also saying, like, you have to find the person that is willing to recognize that you're in separate alliances and Surrey's in both of those alliances, and then is willing to take a shot at Surrey rather than tell Surrey that you approached them. And that's where it gets really dangerous is, would this person rather stick with me after pointing this out, or will they use that knowledge to lock Surrey in with them and get rid of me? So I think that that is what's really scary, is you understand she's likable enough that most people are gonna give her information over you. And so that's where you have to really be careful and guarded. And I think a lot of people misstepped this episode in giving Surrey information, especially targeting Ozzy specifically. Like are they not visibly together? It feels like they are, but maybe that's just us as an audience because everybody goes to Surrey to target Ozzy.

Speaker 5:
[13:52] I remember it being a secret, one of the secret alliances that was mentioned last episode. So nobody knows how close Surrey is to Ozzy and Rizzo. That seems to be like a really big secret.

Speaker 2:
[14:04] Yeah, I guess they're doing a very good job if they're coming to Surrey with information against Ozzy and then they're able to then redirect and still keep that alliance secret.

Speaker 4:
[14:16] I'm very worried if that alliance becomes not a secret and becomes public info.

Speaker 2:
[14:22] It will have to at some point. If it's going to go all the way to the end, it's going to have to expose itself.

Speaker 4:
[14:27] Well, so then who is the person, if you're not in that alliance, who is the person you target? Rizzo as an idol, Ozzy as an idol, they can't move those idols on anybody else like we were just saying. So I'm very, very concerned for Surrey. I have become a huge Surrey fan even before this season and now I've become massively emotionally invested in her getting to the end and winning the game like far more than is healthy and I'm very scared.

Speaker 2:
[14:54] Oh no, oh no.

Speaker 4:
[14:58] Well, I'm like, oh no.

Speaker 2:
[15:01] Now she has to. For Riley's emotional well-being Surrey, you have to win season 50. Otherwise Riley will be distraught and unconsolable. Aubrey locks in with Jonathan. Sean, what do you think of Aubrey this episode specifically? It seems like this is the first time she's really stepped out into being a strategist, driving the game for herself a little bit. What is this trajectory and is it good?

Speaker 3:
[15:33] I like her as a player. I wouldn't say I bought her line that she likes to play with all different kinds of players and that she wants to have a foursome of all different styles. There's not really a lot in Aubrey's history that suggests that.

Speaker 2:
[15:47] She meant whether you like Marvel or DC, she'll work with you.

Speaker 3:
[15:52] Are you more of like an ACC fan or an SEC fan? The idea of Aubrey and Jonathan speaking is fascinating to me, let alone trying to forge a meaningful alliance. I do think that there was a lot of talk about the middle in the last two episodes, about people operating from the middle and moving around the middle and...

Speaker 2:
[16:14] The middle being the second largest group.

Speaker 3:
[16:16] Right, being four people. And based on last week's results too, like the middle should just be on top now, but then that... It's one of those things where I think we, at least me as a watcher, I tend to like accept the narrative that is delivered to me. And then the next episode kind of disrupts that narrative right away. And so I would have thought folks like Aubrey and Devon were in a much stronger position in the immediate aftermath of that vote. And then they were suddenly on the back foot and scrambling in a way in this episode. And so Aubrey has to kind of like play four votes ahead to try to find her way to the final five, the way that she was talking to Jonathan. And so, you know, it's maybe a little bit of a trick of the show and a little bit of a trick of the psychology with so many sophisticated players where there's just not never going to be a long-term seven-person alliance. Like it's just too hard to navigate that. And so, that felt like the growth of that, like her wanting to have that conversation with Jonathan.

Speaker 2:
[17:13] Yeah, I think also that with Aubrey, as I'm watching her navigate Season 50, it seems like to most people up until this point, she is expendable. Most people don't seem like really locked in with her. Nobody's really willing to stick their neck out for her, except for maybe Tiffany. And so, I feel like this is like the first moment we've seen her forge something that seems like it could last with Jonathan. It seems like he was all game for it. We saw them connect multiple times throughout this episode. And so, I feel like this might be some type of building moment for Aubrey specifically. Let's talk about the Jonathan side of it all. We get a lot from him this episode. He has to pivot after losing two people. Do you like the direction of his game moving forward after kind of taking the blow last week? I can't say.

Speaker 3:
[18:10] I feel like he's in a very strong position, but he has this unique situation where there are now three active meat shields in the game this far in. I couldn't remember the last time there were three hyper strong challenge players, maybe even four if you include Stephanie. There's some very strong challenge players left in the game. He has been identified as this hulk, this unbeatable force. He actually went out of the challenge in this episode much quicker than I expected. But he's never struck me as a player who could ever win the game. He seems like a nice guy and he's obviously very talented at certain parts of the game. He has shown a little bit more of an aptitude for playing the game this season. I thought the movie pulled on D was one of the very best moves of the whole season and completely altered her trajectory. But he doesn't seem to be like, he's stuck in the snow globe. He's not shaking the snow globe. You know what I mean? He's going to have to make some dramatic changes if he wants to get much farther, it seems like.

Speaker 2:
[19:21] So you think he can't win because he can't get to the end or because if he gets to the end, he doesn't have enough notches on his belt, his words to potentially win this thing?

Speaker 3:
[19:32] I think he's right to narrativize it the way that he has been narrativizing it, but I don't know if he's going to be able to see that through against superior players. I think there's just too many chess pieces on the board for him to go too much further. That being said, there's been this trend on the show, I felt like in the last five or six years where people have been slowly moving through the game and making one or two moves, and then all of a sudden they find themselves in the final three and then they win. And so it's not usually someone who looks like Jonathan, who's been in that position, but maybe this unusual blend of sheer power with... If he accumulates four notches instead of one or two, maybe that's a good story to tell, whether or not he can advocate for himself in the best way possible is hard to say. But he's definitely played better than I expected him to given the competition. But I also watching this episode never once was like, well, he's a real threat to win.

Speaker 4:
[20:25] Yeah. I mean, do we think that like, because when he's talking about the notches, he's saying like, oh, Christian will be the next notch. Obviously, Christian goes home in this episode. But does Jonathan get the credit for that? Are people going to see that as a notch in his belt? Or is this more like, it's just like a wide consensus vote, and it's not like Jonathan masterminded it.

Speaker 2:
[20:48] Well, and the problem with him claiming it, if he gets to final tribal and others not agreeing with it, that's like one of the worst things you can do at final tribal council, is claim moves that everyone does not agree with. So I think that that's also going to be tricky for him is to have the awareness to know what he can take credit for and can't. Was Christian targeting Ozzy to Surrey his downfall? Would he have been okay had he just been quieter, or was he going no matter what and the Jimmy Fallon, one in the urn just was the nail in the coffin?

Speaker 3:
[21:32] That's hard to say. I don't think the hands of fate were moving in his direction at all in the last few episodes. And I think several things have kind of gone against him recently in the way that the tribe has shaken out and the way that some votes have played out. It did feel like a, you know, I like Christian, like I think like most Survivor watchers, he represents an interesting part of the game and like his brain is an interesting part of the game and him having a downfall because he could not complete a puzzle is maybe notable, a little bit Shakespearean. But it just didn't seem like he really had his arms around things throughout and he was never able to really like leverage what should have been a more powerful series of alliances, you know, with folks like Mike, with folks like Angelina, this like, he did have some kind of baked in advantages to the way that the tribes shook out that he never really capitalized on and maybe even undermined along the way. And there was a time when I thought he, Devons and Aubrey could have been one of the more dynamic trios strategically in the history of the game. But in a way, like, three players who are so similar is actually not such a great skill. And, you know, what you were talking about earlier with Ozzie and Suri and Rizzo being this subterranean power trio, like those are just three people you're not really thinking of as working together. And it does seem like that sometimes works a lot better when just because a person seems different from you, you know, externally, it doesn't mean that they're not the perfect partner for you. So Christian, I don't know. I mean, I think he made a few missteps. I think he was a little bit tempestuous at times whenever his name came up or he felt like he was not really in a position he wanted to be. And he just didn't finish the puzzle. I mean, it really comes down to that. I think if he finishes that puzzle, it's just a completely different episode. And maybe Devon is going home or maybe something else more dramatic happens.

Speaker 2:
[23:21] Interesting. So you think had he completed the puzzle, who would he have put in the urn? Do you think? Who would he have voted for?

Speaker 3:
[23:29] Was that what the rule? You had to write down the name on the spot? Yeah, right there. Yeah. That's really hard to say. I think it's tricky because he doesn't...

Speaker 2:
[23:38] Maybe Ozzy, but then he has to go back and be like, hey, I put Ozzy's name down in the urn already. Like how is he convincing everyone else to go Ozzy? Or is he going back and lying about his advantage? Or being coy and just being like, you know, that's for me to know and you to find out? Like, I think he's allowed a lot more freedom obviously if he wins because he doesn't have to read the note of doom. Yeah, that's, I mean, we'll talk to him tomorrow at exit and I'm sure all the other outlets will ask who he voted for or who he would have put in the urn. So we'll ask him other stuff that's cooler.

Speaker 3:
[24:18] Yeah, I mean, it's a two-swing advantage, right? It's like it's two votes. It's his vote and it's an additional vote. So if he's just throwing two votes at Ozzy and then goes back and talks to Devon and Aubrey and Emily, that's just five votes for Ozzy. So that could have worked, you know, that was definitely in play.

Speaker 2:
[24:37] Yeah, yeah, that makes me think it could have happened. Before the immunity challenge, Sean, do you see a man in the moon or a rabbit flipping pancakes?

Speaker 3:
[24:52] I'll go rabbit.

Speaker 2:
[24:52] I might not vote for Jonathan in the end if he gets there and I'm on the jury just based off this alone. I'm like, I never saw rabbit flipping pancakes. Is this a story line? Are we gonna see this play out again next week?

Speaker 3:
[25:08] It's impossible to know.

Speaker 4:
[25:09] You know, I do, I'm looking it up. Yeah, like I kind of.

Speaker 5:
[25:14] You see a rabbit flipping pancakes?

Speaker 4:
[25:17] I mean, like when somebody overlays a rabbit flipping pancakes.

Speaker 2:
[25:23] That's the new Samsung.

Speaker 4:
[25:25] Then you also squint at the same time, then you're like, I kind of see it. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[25:29] The new Samsung automatically overlays that when you zoom in on the moon. So it's very cool. Yeah. If we don't get closure on this where like everybody's one night at next week at the night time in the opening, everybody's looking at the moon being like, it is a rabbit flipping pancakes. I will be upset. I'm looking forward to that moment. The immunity challenge. We've finally had some survivor history happen. Historic. We had Jeff say historic multiple times throughout this challenge, which is interesting because he's the showrunner. So obviously anything he can create any new historic thing at any moment of any given time throughout filming of the show. So do we put it all in the history books? I don't know. We do, Ashleigh.

Speaker 5:
[26:29] Every single time, yes.

Speaker 2:
[26:33] Did you like this? I call this, I know they probably had something else for it. Jimmy Fallon suggested that Jeff participate in a challenge or compete on Survivor. This is the twist I call In the Hand of a Fan, which who knew a single fan could wield so much power on Survivor. Do you like this little twist? Sean, do you like watching Jeff compete?

Speaker 3:
[26:59] I like watching him be humbled. I think that was appealing.

Speaker 2:
[27:02] Was there a part of him that thought he would win?

Speaker 3:
[27:04] You would probably know the answer to that better than me.

Speaker 2:
[27:06] I would think not. I think he feels like he could probably have beat one of those four people, but I don't think he felt like he was going to beat all four.

Speaker 3:
[27:17] I've always thought Jeff is secretly quite ripped, so I was wondering if he was going to show out in any meaningful way. Then you remember, as he noted, he's the oldest guy there and he's no spring chicken anymore. So it's not surprising that it was a little bit more of a struggle, but I thought he performed it well. There are some challenges when I watch the show where I think like, I might be able to do that. Then there are other challenges where I'm like, I never want to have to be even near that. Given my lack of upper body strength, this is a challenge I would not want to do. I would not perform well in the challenge that we watched today. So having Jeff have to do it was entertaining. I think he like handed up effectively. I appreciated the commentary, appreciated Ozzy hitting him with, you got to dig deep, like all of that stuff was fun. It seems a little late in the game to be just bargaining straight up for Rice. I thought that the reward should have been a little bit sexier around beating Jeff Probst in a challenge, but maybe that says more about how to. Yes. Sure. Another serenade from Zach Bryan. He comes back.

Speaker 2:
[28:27] He's just been hanging out in the background, spearfishing, he's got a whole stockpile.

Speaker 3:
[28:33] Zach Brown, sorry, not Zach Bryan. I would have enjoyed Zach Bryan. But yeah, I don't know. It just felt a little, even just hearing Suri and Emily sniping over Rice, I was like, this feels real Survivor 1.0. We don't usually hear these kinds of chorals on the show anymore. So that was kind of interesting. Maybe that was a way to kind of harken back to the history of the show that it was for Rice.

Speaker 4:
[28:55] The flashback they did really made me miss actually that version of Jeff, the one who did all the trash talking. And at the end of this, he's like, well, I'll never be talking trash again because he sees how hard it is now. And I'm like, that is the exact opposite of what I want.

Speaker 2:
[29:09] Until next season.

Speaker 4:
[29:11] That's right. He'd say until next season. Yeah, you're right. He immediately walked back. So good. I hope that's true.

Speaker 2:
[29:17] Well, I also think that showing that flashback, maybe they're dipping their toe in the water of like, can let's watch the fan's reactions to Sassy Jeff and see if people's feelings get hurt or if they love it. And maybe we can go back to Sassy Jeff a little bit. I'm also very happy that I was not in that montage of Jeff yelling at how pathetic, I think he said pathetic multiple times to multiple people.

Speaker 3:
[29:43] I was looking for you, Tyson. I legitimately was hoping we'd have a moment where we could chat, we could pull out the history.

Speaker 2:
[29:50] I don't think I've ever had a truly devastating loss in a challenge that I was just getting completely annihilated in. Only on token chains, but they didn't even air it on TV because our bucket got hung up on like a dead stump and we couldn't move it any further. They ended up cutting that part of the challenge out, but that's how we lost and Jeff was just like, they can't even move theirs. We're like, it's on a dead stump where there's nothing we can do. We were trying to reel this box of weights in and it just stayed there the whole time and they just called it a thing of nature, would act of God, I don't know what they call, whatever they called it. It wouldn't have made good TV, so they just cut it and made the challenge end at the stage before that. So that was the only moment and I wouldn't have felt bad about that anyways, like whatever. But I am still grateful that I have never been yelled at as being pathetic by Jeff Probst. You were on the show 10 years ago, Sean, and you had been going to therapy because Jeff called you pathetic and you're finally getting over it. This is the first month you've been okay without talking to somebody about it and then this comes up.

Speaker 3:
[31:07] Yeah, that would hurt. I think we've all got our daddy issues. I think Jeff is daddy to some people.

Speaker 2:
[31:12] Yeah, daddy Jeff.

Speaker 3:
[31:15] There's definitely something to that. I do agree with what Riley was saying though, which is the show has been a lot nicer in the last seven or eight years. There are a lot of great things about that and there's a real sense of sincerity and community around the show and it's a show that people have a 20 plus year history with. But it's a weird nasty game about sleeping outside and pushing people down and trying to beat people in foot races and holding on to heavy stuff and lying to your friends. It's a mean game. I like that it's a mean game. It's one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place. And so the host, I like him being mean. Don't encourage me. Tell me I got to step it up. There's a drill sergeant quality that he used to have that obviously is a little bit gone. And it's nice that the show at least acknowledged it with the way that they edited specifically that package. They didn't have to do that. They could have elided that part of the history and they didn't.

Speaker 2:
[32:07] With the negotiation, it didn't really seem like the stakes were that high.

Speaker 4:
[32:14] They didn't risk anything.

Speaker 2:
[32:17] You risk losing rice, but only because you chose the people wrong.

Speaker 4:
[32:21] Yeah, rice that you didn't have at the beginning.

Speaker 2:
[32:23] Right. So, what would you have done, Riley?

Speaker 4:
[32:26] I thought it was going to be like every player, I was running through my brain this week because we knew that this is the week where Jeff was going to compete. I was like, what's going to be? I thought it was going to be like each player would have the option to be like, if you outlast Jeff, you get an extra vote. If he outlasts you, you lose your vote or something like that. Some sort of risk that players take. I thought it was going to be dramatically more high stakes and a little bit underwhelmed when it was just for Rice, even though it was still a good bit of fun, I felt.

Speaker 2:
[32:58] You would have liked eight people or something having extra votes this episode and then four people losing their votes?

Speaker 4:
[33:06] Yeah, maybe. Well, they would have the option though. They would have the option of whether they would want to risk it or not. I'm wondering too if they could also make that decision in private too, so then you don't know whether they lost their vote or whether they got an extra vote or whatever. It might be that that's too imbalanced. They just massively rewards the challenge beast and that may be why they didn't do it. I mean, Joe would be taking that immediately. He was so comfortable up there, one-handed and whatnot. You knew he was going to win. As it was that showdown with Ozzy, you were just like, okay, Joe is not moving. So that feels like that's the imbalance that I think doesn't work for that twist. But my mind was rattling through things like that. It was more like a decision for the players to take risk that would have affected the game more. Then I probably would have come on this podcast and been like, I didn't like that. I hated it. So I think that's why they didn't do it.

Speaker 2:
[34:03] So you would have come up with the idea and then come on the podcast and criticize the idea that you had for the show.

Speaker 3:
[34:08] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4:
[34:09] Okay. Well, I'm just brainstorming. I'm spitballing here.

Speaker 2:
[34:16] Sean, is Riley's idea better or worse than what we saw on TV?

Speaker 3:
[34:21] It's much worse, but that's podcasting for you. What are you going to do? You got to get in there and you got to come up with some ideas. If they're bad, listeners at home are like, that's so bad and they feel excited because you pitched a bad idea and then they get to feel better than you. I know all about this. I do this every week.

Speaker 2:
[34:36] Gives them confidence in themselves pitching bad ideas.

Speaker 3:
[34:40] That's exactly right. Then they can go to their jobs and pitch a bad idea.

Speaker 2:
[34:44] Because there's no bad ideas with your spitball. I don't hate it if they get to make the decision in private and then go back to camp and lie about the decision they made. The only issue is that, and it's not going to matter because you still have to determine what's true and what's false, is that anybody who lost to Jeff is going to claim at camp that they didn't wager their vote and everyone that beat Jeff is going to claim that they did wager their vote. So then you still have to decipher it, but it could play out to something hilarious happening. Joe wins and he has to send someone on a journey. Why is Joe too scared to choose someone from his opposition or someone in his alliance, which I believe are-

Speaker 4:
[35:33] Did he have picked himself or no?

Speaker 2:
[35:35] I think he should have tried. I think he could have picked himself.

Speaker 4:
[35:38] Because then I feel like that's the move.

Speaker 2:
[35:39] He's immune already, so it's like whatever.

Speaker 4:
[35:43] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:44] Interesting. Choose yourself.

Speaker 3:
[35:47] Didn't even come up, right?

Speaker 4:
[35:48] No.

Speaker 2:
[35:48] No. Maybe it did off-camera, maybe you can't, but I don't hate that. Let's see. You can't choose yourself.

Speaker 4:
[35:55] It would make sense if you couldn't because then it wouldn't, the twist of like, hey, you vote for yourself would make no sense for somebody who's immune. So I'm guessing that he was not allowed to pick himself.

Speaker 2:
[36:07] Okay. So if that's the case, could he have done something more strategic than make everyone play rock, paper, scissors?

Speaker 3:
[36:15] I got to give him credit for what seemed like very quickly coming up with a way to solve his indecision by suggesting the game, and then the game just played out very quickly and then we just decided. And it did ultimately, I mean, could it have worked out any better for him? I mean, that turned out to be maybe the best possible outcome for Joe's game.

Speaker 2:
[36:35] I think Christian going on a journey wasn't the best outcome, but Christian losing on the journey did end up being the best outcome.

Speaker 3:
[36:43] Right. So given that turn of events, I think he probably feels pretty good. He doesn't, that's the problem is he doesn't get to claim credit. I mean, he gets to stay in a more comfortable position, and he still gets to feel like Devon's is on the chopping block, and maybe Ozzy's name is out there more aggressively. Now he's got some votes on the board, so he probably feels pretty good. If he had just chosen Christian, he'd be getting a lot of brownie points right now for that. But I don't know. I mean, does that speak to the kind of integrity, quote unquote, that Joe wants to play with? You know, this idea that he's not an underhanded player, that he's a straight shooter, that he doesn't want to have to be made to make these decisions. I mean, that's the kind of thing that probably in the long run makes it difficult for someone like that to win, unless he's really, really, really well liked.

Speaker 4:
[37:36] Yeah. Yeah, I would agree.

Speaker 2:
[37:37] Yeah, I agree. I think that those in decisions, when you are in front of a final jury, is very bad. Like, oh, you couldn't even do that? Like, and Joe in this position can actually go either direction and claim it as his move. He can choose someone that he's tight with in an alliance. Like, okay, what's an obvious alliance that Joe is in? Is it pretty obvious he's with Jonathan? Like, is that like widely known? If that's the case, send Jonathan. I want my ally to have it. If you don't want to take that risk and send an ally, send an enemy. And it's pretty clear that Joe has some enemies. You just, as Joe, choose your most obvious enemy. And when your enemy gets back to camp, you can say, this was my way of forging an alliance with you. Like, there's ways to spin it. And I think Joe missed an opportunity that could have been. The rock, paper, scissors. Like, that's something I would do when Rachel wants to go out to eat and then ask me where we're going to eat. And I'm like, rock, paper, scissors? I mean, I saw a cool way is to ask her to guess where we're going. And then the first thing she guesses, that's where you go. That's, you know, you got it. You guessed it right.

Speaker 4:
[39:01] That is the big brain move.

Speaker 3:
[39:06] You're using like toddler playground mentality to choose restaurants. And also that's what Joe did to have food. I mean, that's what I do with my daughter and her friends for who gets to like get the first scoop of ice cream, you know, that's what those teams are for.

Speaker 2:
[39:20] So I think this is it with Jeff or with Joe, I think a big missed opportunity to put a notch of his own on his belt. And even if it doesn't work out, I think it's worth an attempt and it would be viewed as a move.

Speaker 4:
[39:39] Yeah, it's kind of weird from Joe too, who like on his his season got to the end and then, you know, didn't really have enough respect on the jury. Yeah, because he like was just, you know, buddied up with Eva his whole season and that was like his game and it's like, yeah dude, like eventually you're going to have to make some decisions. And they may come back to bite you, but they also may win you the game.

Speaker 2:
[40:02] Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2:
[42:40] Let's talk more about Sarive versus Emily on the rice. This was...

Speaker 4:
[42:45] Yeah, I have a question on this. So if you're cooking five cups of rice, how many cups of water do you use?

Speaker 2:
[42:50] You use double.

Speaker 4:
[42:53] Yeah, they were saying 18 cups.

Speaker 2:
[42:56] She's maybe puffing it up to get like extra volume in it, but it should be... I think the rule of thumb is wherever depth the rice is in the pot, you put that much depth on top. So it's a little more than double.

Speaker 4:
[43:11] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[43:12] I see what you're saying. I don't think it's five to 18. I think it's like 11 cups of water to five cups of rice or something like that, because some of the water does seep down into the rice before you cook it. So if you have a knuckle depth of rice, you do that much water on top, but then there's also water sitting in the rice.

Speaker 3:
[43:32] I've always wanted to have diagrams and 3D visuals around challenges on the show, like ESPN's sports science style demonstrations, but it would actually be even better for actually, how does one make rice on the island? What are the dynamics? What are the measurements? Get that camera inside the pot. Really put us in the experience.

Speaker 2:
[43:57] I heard that in two episodes, there's a country singer who's going to come on and he's going to be marooned by himself, explaining to the audience in depth.

Speaker 3:
[44:07] That's going to be good.

Speaker 2:
[44:09] Brad Paisley. Yeah, Brad Paisley is going to be on.

Speaker 3:
[44:14] Brad Paisley's rice corner, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[44:17] And then he brings it all prepared to camp for everybody to enjoy. Whose side are you on in the Saree vs. Emily Rice battle?

Speaker 3:
[44:28] It seems like maybe Emily should have just kept her mouth shut. I don't know, even if she was right, like maybe just chill. Like, I'm not sure what you're getting here for yourself. If, you know, exposing your disagreement with the most beloved person on the island who's connected to every other player when it's over a piddling thing, such as free rice that everyone has just earned, like, maybe just, we just have a sip of water, you know? I don't really know what Emily was doing there.

Speaker 4:
[44:52] This is where we still needed to have at least Chrissy and maybe Coach as well at the mix to also give their opinions on rice.

Speaker 2:
[45:01] Damn it, we really missed some real cinema and I'm not even kidding. Coach weighing in on what to eat and how much to eat as well as Chrissy would have just been. Chef's kiss. I am of the belief that if you're with a bunch of starving people and there's two people arguing whether you should eat more or eat less, eating more is going to win out every time. There's not a time where everyone's like, we should all eat less especially because somebody's going home that night, somebody's going home the next day. I, if I'm on the island, I'm like, let's eat it all tonight, let's just get it out of the way and then it doesn't matter. Now we're all starving again but at least we all got sick for one day because we ate overate on rice. Like I, nobody's choosing the let's eat less side. Also, speaking of Emily, Sean, you're Rick Devons, you have this amazing fake idol play and then you go to Emily of all people, the one person who has not been able to keep any information to herself and tell her that it was fake and that you're hilarious. Why did Rick feel like that was the move? Did Christian already tell him? Did he suspect that Christian had told Emily?

Speaker 3:
[46:20] Possibly. Has Emily betrayed information on Rick's behalf yet? We know that she's done it to Christian and to many other players throughout the season. For reasons that are mystifying to me, like her inability to keep a secret. It feels like, is it like a gameplay now? Like, what's she doing?

Speaker 2:
[46:41] It's not a gameplay. I think it's just her. I think it's her, like, using the information.

Speaker 3:
[46:46] Was she like this in the last season she played in though?

Speaker 2:
[46:48] Probably.

Speaker 4:
[46:49] I, yeah, I do not recall her, like, spilling this many beans on her first season.

Speaker 3:
[46:55] And she memorably had, like, a very tough start to her first season, right? And she was, like, very socially inept and didn't know how to build relationships with people and she seemed, like, kind of a grouch. And then she completely turned her story around and played very well and built relationships. This season she seems to be struggling less with building the relationships, but the idea, like, being a strong strategic player is valueless if you don't keep information. Like, and so that's her angle as a player, so she's not leveraging that. And then also regarding the rice, there's something kind of beautifully poetic around advocating for not eating too much and saving it for more, and by doing so, you're putting a target on your back, which means you'll leave the game sooner and you will not be able to benefit from eating that rice that was saved. So, like, she's just a little all over the place this season. Wouldn't say it's been her finest showing. And she's a player I really like. I like watching her on the show too. And you can see that a lot of strong players see her as, like, a great number two for them. Like, we've seen this throughout this season. You know, Ozzy was very drawn to her at a certain point. Like, a lot of players are sort of like, she would be a good person to spend a lot of time strategizing with, and no one would ever expect it. But she's just got a few screws loose, I think. There's some really weird decision making.

Speaker 2:
[48:09] I think she just can't help herself. I think she panics, not feeling like she has a pulse on the entirety of the game, and also doesn't want to get caught out with being betrayed. She'd rather betray first, even if she's uncertain whether or not she should even betray. I think that she's overplaying in that way. That's kind of my read on it, is she's like, well, Sean and I are together, but we share secrets. And if he's telling those secrets to people, I don't want him to tell those secrets to people before I tell those secrets to people. So I'm just going to tell the secrets to people right now. And then she ends up realizing that you didn't even have plans to divulge those secrets. So then she asks forgiveness. And I think that's where she's struggling, is she does not want to get got in so much that she's willing to spill the information immediately. So I was surprised that she didn't tell everyone that Rick's idol was fake this episode immediately after he told her.

Speaker 5:
[49:16] It'll happen next episode probably, when she's gonna hear something about maybe Rick saying her name possibly, and that she's gonna totally panic and spill the beans.

Speaker 4:
[49:26] Yeah. I feel like it could be the right move too. If she does hear that like if it's Devon's name out again, but then there's that classic survivor thing, which basically happened this episode where you're like, oh, this person has an idol. Instead of putting the votes on them, we'll take out their ally to weaken them, and hopefully they play the idol and flush it. She might be like, I just have to tell everyone the idol is fake, so the votes are actually going Devon's and not on me.

Speaker 2:
[49:50] I think it's gonna come back to Bite Devon's that he told Emily that it was fake. Also, Jonathan has been building up to target Christian, and in so much that Christian offers Jonathan his shot in the dark, which I believe would then earn Jonathan a notch on his belt, except for the fact that because Christian has to vote for himself, can't even use his shot in the dark, Christian recognizes that, I think that's where Jonathan is not getting any credit for this Christian move. If he gets to final tribal council, he's gonna get there, and he's gonna be like, I got Christian's shot in the dark, and the entire jury is gonna be like, it didn't matter. He couldn't have even played it if he wanted to, and they're gonna credit Christian with actually giving up his shot in the dark more than they're gonna credit Jonathan for taking it.

Speaker 5:
[50:50] He also doesn't have really Dee on his belt either. I feel like Suri was more in charge of that vote. I'm not even sure if he had Camilla. He was kind of the deciding choice, but not really at the same time. So I feel like if he does get to tribal, it'll be very funny to see him kind of embarrassed and everyone be like, no, that wasn't you. That was Suri.

Speaker 2:
[51:14] Yeah. Well, that's what's going to happen is Suri is going to ask him about Dee, and he's going to say it was me, and she'll be like, no. Yeah. And I think that is that happens a lot at tribal council is somebody takes credit, and then someone on the jury is upset that they're taking credit for something they believe they should have taken credit for. It's a whole song and dance up there, Sean.

Speaker 3:
[51:39] Jonathan's not going to the final three, guys. Come on. Is that happening? Come on.

Speaker 4:
[51:45] I feel like it kind of could.

Speaker 3:
[51:47] Really?

Speaker 2:
[51:48] He's repositioning with Aubrey. I don't think that it's, I mean, out of everybody in the game, it could honestly be anybody. Like we don't know who's show. Well, we know who's showing up next week. It's Mr. Beast, but who's showing up after that? Who's showing up after that?

Speaker 3:
[52:04] What twist are we getting?

Speaker 2:
[52:06] Mr. Beast is in the final three. That's the twist.

Speaker 3:
[52:09] We should put him in the game now. That would be good.

Speaker 5:
[52:12] That's what's in his suitcase. It's his own buff.

Speaker 2:
[52:15] It's his buff, exactly. But does he have to switch places with a player and they immediately get eliminated from the game?

Speaker 5:
[52:23] Oh, he'll offer the money.

Speaker 8:
[52:25] He'll be like, I will offer you $20,000 for your spot.

Speaker 2:
[52:30] Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 3:
[52:31] What if he just challenged them? What if they just had to go against each other in one of the challenges? And if you lose to Mr. Beast, first of all, Mr. Beast does not need the winnings from Survivor. I'm just going to put that out there. He's doing very well for himself at Mr. Beast, Incorporated. But I do think that that would, in the spirit of actually blowing up the game a little bit, we're already doing boomerang idols. We're having Jimmy Fallon directly eliminate Christian for reasons that are still mystifying to me. Like, let's just go crazy.

Speaker 2:
[53:02] Let's get Mr. Beast in there.

Speaker 4:
[53:04] If Mr. Beast takes Therese's spot, I will immediately stop watching the show. I'll never watch again. It's over.

Speaker 2:
[53:11] Mr. Beast won't become your winner pick.

Speaker 4:
[53:14] No, I literally, you'll never see me again. I'll be done.

Speaker 2:
[53:19] Listen, Riley, based on whether or not CBS appreciates your commentary on the show, they may pivot 180 and put Mr. Beast in the game.

Speaker 4:
[53:32] As long as, you know, I'm against it in any scenario, but if it comes at Therese's expense, it's over.

Speaker 2:
[53:38] Okay. Okay. You heard it here, Survivor and CBS. If you want Riley to stop his commentary on your program, then that's the play. But it also will piss a lot of people off. I don't think that's going to happen. But what if, what if Mr. Beast offers someone, Ashleigh, your final, how many people are left in the game now? 11, 12, something like that. 13.

Speaker 4:
[54:08] There's 10, right?

Speaker 2:
[54:09] There's 10 left. Okay. If Mr. Beast offers, how much would Mr. Beast have to offer you for you to exit with 10 people left in the game? And you feeling comfortable in your position?

Speaker 5:
[54:21] Gosh, you know what? That's the question because then you have Suri who's extremely comfortable. So many alliances, getting rid of so many people, nobody's pointing fingers at her. She could win. At least that would be my thought with Suri. But then you have like, you have like, Emily who has her issues. I don't even know if she knows she has her issues. I would say Mr. Beast can offer like 100K to 500K. And I think that would be a good like, you can leave money. And I think people would totally take it. I would take it.

Speaker 2:
[54:58] I think a lot of people are bouncing for 50.

Speaker 4:
[55:02] Wow. I felt the exact opposite. I feel like a lot of these players, the game and the chance to win matters more than the money. I know you're bouncing for 50, but I feel like a lot of these players are like, they have a chance to win and they know that the cameras are going to eat up. If they're like, I won't take it even for a million or whatever. That's just like, Jeff's going to love that.

Speaker 3:
[55:26] It's also just an opportunity to be on TV longer. It's $50,000 worth, minus three episodes of screen time on one of the most popular television shows around. It's honestly not. I think that's not a good deal, Tyson.

Speaker 2:
[55:43] Sean, you more than most people should know that a month down the road, nobody remembers.

Speaker 4:
[55:53] Yeah. You think that? I mean, Tyson.

Speaker 2:
[55:57] What if you win, right? But what if you're next out? I think I would immediately take the $50,000. And then as I'm leaving, I'd be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Would you do $100,000? Like I will have forgotten to negotiate. And then after I've already accepted, I'll be like, wait, can we negotiate this now that I'm walking out? I feel like you had more in that briefcase than $50,000. What can we do more? And they'd be like, too late for you, Tyson. I'd be like, well, them's the breaks. Easy come, easy go. Because listen, the breakdown for money is a million dollars to first. Second place gets usually around $100,000, but because it's a bigger cast, I'm thinking they're getting less. I'm thinking second place is getting maybe $85,000, $90,000, maybe something around there. Third place is going to get $75,000 to $85,000. Fourth place is going to get more close to that $50,000 mark. Fifth place is, fifth or sixth place is probably $50,000. So if that's the case, then you're thinking halfway, that's the average of the, or that's the middle, not the average because the million dollars skews at all, but that's the middle. So you still have to get five more spots or four more spots before you even get to that $50,000 spot. So mathematically, $50,000 I feel like is the appropriate number. We spent a lot of time on something that's not even going to happen next episode.

Speaker 3:
[57:26] It's a great thought experiment though. But Tyson, let me ask you this.

Speaker 2:
[57:30] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[57:30] Do you feel that there is more glory in winning an all-star season or heroes versus villains season than in your typical first time playing run of the mill Survivor season?

Speaker 2:
[57:41] I feel like from the fans perspective, yes, from the audience, yes. I feel like personally, no, because you get out there and you realize that people are still making the same mistakes and the same blunders and it's not necessarily a more elevated gameplay per se. It moves quicker in the beginning, like things shape up faster because everyone knows that. But overall, I don't think that it's harder to win something like that. I think it's the same. I think the level of difficulty is similar. But the glory from the fans is greater.

Speaker 3:
[58:25] It's very humble.

Speaker 4:
[58:26] I think all of the players who have won all-star seasons are regarded as particularly good winners. I think that will be the same after this season. Whoever wins, it will be like, it does feel like it's a little bit elevated for whatever reason. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[58:42] I have a similar feeling about it. That's why. Maybe that's just because just being invited back is some indicator of greatness. So then there's just this assumption of greatness amongst all the people. I'll just say, since this is my first time chatting with you guys about this season, I think this is a great cast. I think they did a nice job and I was a little dubious before it started and there were plenty of names on my list that I would have liked to have seen. But I really feel like they've cast well. To your point earlier, Tyson, I have no idea who's going to win. It does seem like it could be any combination of people right now, which is just great for the final seven or eight weeks of the season. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[59:24] I agree with you, Sean. We were similarly dubious when that cast was announced. There's a whole podcast where we went over it and some of it was like, oh, there were some weird choices here. Then it's been fun watching the season and being like, oh, now I understand why they made that selection. Somebody like Rizzo really stands out to me here, where obviously we didn't know him at all from 49, when we heard about the cast because that season hadn't aired yet. Now, I'm like, dude, I'm actually loving him on 50, even more than we did on 49, too, where I liked him. I feel like he's polarizing. I actually like him. Then on 50, I'm like, oh, this guy is like, he's actually very good at Survivor and very fun to watch.

Speaker 2:
[60:05] My opinion when we saw the cast was similar, but I also do remember putting an asterisk on it saying, the format of Survivor is going to create good TV regardless of who's there. Obviously, this is not the celebration of the eras that we wanted, but we have some wackadoos there, we have some big characters, and that's enough. That's going to be enough to make the season celebrated and watchable. I still maintain that if we're doing a celebration of the eras, they did miss the mark a bit, but I knew that whatever cast they selected, there's returning players that people celebrate. We're going to have a great time. So, I just want to point out my genius again. Before we talk about Emily, we get Christian going back to camp, and we get Devon and Christian being targets. So then Emily decides that she should herself make herself a target by going to Suri and Tiffany and telling them to flip all the votes on to Ozzy. Why? Why is she doing this to herself?

Speaker 3:
[61:26] Is she a bad player? I feel like I definitely never thought that.

Speaker 2:
[61:33] You answer a question with a question?

Speaker 3:
[61:36] She doesn't scan as bad player, right? She's cerebral, she's emotional, but reflective. People seem to like her, you know? Like she has made relationships despite being, you know, she's a relatively new contender in the last few years on the show. And yet she's done like somewhere between four and nine things this season.

Speaker 2:
[61:58] I'm like, what are you doing?

Speaker 3:
[62:00] Why did you do that? And this was one of them. This was one.

Speaker 2:
[62:04] You think it's under nine?

Speaker 3:
[62:06] No, it's a lot. It's a lot.

Speaker 2:
[62:08] Yeah. I, it's hard to, I'm putting myself in Emily's shoes. I'm looking at Seree. I'm looking at Tiffany, who were the people she initially went to to target Ozzy. I don't feel like, I mean, obviously we have this godlike view watching the season and understanding that Seree and Ozzy are very tight. But I still feel like I would lump them together if I'm Emily. As old school, they've been around for a long time. They're both still in the game. How are they not working together in some capacity? And I feel like that's a mission that you set someone else loose on. Like, don't do that yourself. Maybe go and be like, hey, should we test the waters on if Seree and Tiffany are willing to vote out Ozzy? Why don't you go, you go ask. Like, do something else. I don't think that putting yourself out there, especially when you're not being targeted. Is this a moment where, Sean, do you think that she's feeling like this is pivotal? This is a pivotal moment where if someone from her alliance goes home, she's going to be targeted next?

Speaker 3:
[63:20] My sense of it was that her thinking was that the best kind of blindsides are that no one's even thinking about this blindsides. That there's not been a single discussion of getting Ozzy out. You can see the kind of excitement with which she was pitching the idea. And that she thought that everyone would be like, I hadn't thought of that. What a wonderful concept. And in fact, and you know, I thought.

Speaker 2:
[63:46] I mean, the fact that they did pretty much say that to her face.

Speaker 3:
[63:49] I thought they sold it.

Speaker 2:
[63:51] Should have been danger.

Speaker 4:
[63:54] I thought she had a lot of these moments earlier in the season too, where like, especially with like Devon's, they would be like, what if we got out this person? It's like, oh, wouldn't that be crazy? And then she'd be like giggling about it. And it was like, OK, like, that's fun. It's like sexy and entertaining. But is it actually a good idea? That's the part you need to kind of think about. Sometimes it's we can just be straightforward here. And I feel like Emily just often wants to go for that, like the blind side nobody sees coming, the big move, the fireworks. And yeah, you know, it's not always gonna work.

Speaker 2:
[64:30] Sean, if I come to you and I'm like, let's get rid of Ozzy and you're like, brilliant. I never thought of that. We're doing it. Yep, you don't have to check in with me again. That's the lock. I know that that is not the lock. That is, I have some damage control to do and I'm misstepped and misfired completely.

Speaker 5:
[64:49] It seems like a sin to just go up to people and be like, hey, Ozzy? Like I thought that was like one of the biggest sins of survivors, to come up to people and give names that aren't in the conversation. So I'm just, yeah, I'm a little confused on our gameplay and I'm very concerned on the social aspect of Emily's entire gameplay because Tiff and Saree were very obvious in the fact that they're like not 100% down and I don't know, she was like, yay, okay, bye. Like, no, do more.

Speaker 2:
[65:23] Glad you're all doing what I said. Thank you. Yeah, do more. Everybody else, I'm good now.

Speaker 3:
[65:28] I did my part of this. It's like Gas Leak Survivor, right? You know, where like she is like, clearly no one else has thought of this and I've come up with it and this is the plan and we've nailed it. And then when she just like sit and eat rice for the next six hours, like what happened after that? Like was, you know, I'm always, as a, as a fan of the show, I'm always fascinated by what is, what we're not shown in the, during the scramble, you know, what's not on camera. I just feel so critical.

Speaker 4:
[65:56] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[65:56] So much. And this seemed like one where like we just didn't see a lot.

Speaker 2:
[65:59] So much. Some of it isn't critical.

Speaker 4:
[66:01] Yeah. Cause ultimately the vote here, it seems like there was a vote split between Christian and Devon's, like very intentionally in case of whatever, an idle play or something. And then it's Devon's and Emily who vote Ozzy that are left out. But we don't ever actually see this large group having to come together and be like, okay, we're doing a 6-3 vote split and these votes go this way and these votes go the other way and whatever else. Like that's all just left on the cutting room floor for us.

Speaker 2:
[66:32] Right. And there's a lot that doesn't matter. Like there is so much circulating. All the names were probably named or most of them. And then it got kind of pinpointed on the two that really mattered, the votes were going for. So there's so much swirling and so many thoughts and ideas. And some of it does matter. Like we would have seen if they wanted to show us, we would have seen Devon and Emily getting left out and believing that Ozzy was the target. With that, let's go to Tribal Council. Normally, we just gloss over these tribal councils. I feel like in general, they're pretty boring. Last week's was a banger of tribal councils. Actually, I think that the tribal council made the episode with, I think the twist that happened last week could have fallen on its face had Rick Devons not pulled that punch at tribal council. But this week, there's a few notable things. Christian, was he truly that upset at the Fallon one in the urn? Yes. Sean, is that yes? Ashleigh, you think he, I feel like he was, but he was trying to be jovial and light about it still, but was truly annoyed at it.

Speaker 4:
[68:00] I feel like it's always hard for me to tell with Christian.

Speaker 2:
[68:02] Because he's a robot in human skin.

Speaker 3:
[68:04] I thought he was. I thought he had the right to be.

Speaker 2:
[68:05] I thought he was and I also thought he had the right to be too. You vote for yourself. That's one of the 10 commandments of Survivor is you cannot vote for yourself.

Speaker 4:
[68:16] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[68:18] This was a step, as I suggested early in our discussion, like I just didn't like this. I didn't get it. I thought it like dramatically altered the outcome of the rest of the game. I don't think there's a really strong chance that Christian would have been going home in this episode if this had not happened, if he had not had to read that.

Speaker 2:
[68:35] Well, you as a fan chose this, Sean.

Speaker 3:
[68:38] I think he's a fun player. God damn you, Jimmy Fallon. Why is Jimmy Fallon associated with this as an NBC representative? Mysterious to me. This is sad corporate synergy. Yeah, this is just, the whole thing is just weird. Don't really care about Jimmy Fallon in general. No shots to him. Just like, get this out of here. Like, I wanted more Christian on this season. I just didn't like it. Didn't like it. I thought he was absolutely right to be peeved. And there have been a lot of things like this over the years where there have just been kind of like game play experiments. I'll be curious to see what the fan thinks of the move in particular, but I think because Christian is just such good television, people are not going to be stoked about this one.

Speaker 2:
[69:19] Well, so then let's rewind a second here or a little bit. We talked about returning season winners being credited heavier than regular season. Do all these twists where it seems like, Christian probably wouldn't have gone had it not been this twist, and there's multiple instances like this. Is this going to be an asterisk on this season's winners resume?

Speaker 3:
[69:46] What do you think, Riley?

Speaker 4:
[69:48] I think it will depend on who wins and what their game looks like, and what the narrative is that we can pull together.

Speaker 2:
[69:58] So, let's say that Jimmy Fallon wins.

Speaker 4:
[70:01] Well, then obviously it's A+.

Speaker 3:
[70:04] If Fallon defeats Mr. Beast, how do we feel about this season?

Speaker 4:
[70:08] Better than if Mr. Beast defeats Fallon, I guess.

Speaker 3:
[70:12] Should Billie Eilish have a vote at Final Tribal?

Speaker 2:
[70:15] She should have to vote first. She gets to vote for herself.

Speaker 4:
[70:19] Yeah. That's why we start the Final Tribal.

Speaker 3:
[70:22] Running the earth for Billie.

Speaker 2:
[70:23] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[70:25] You know, but I think like when I think back to Winners of War, that was a very twist heavy season that Tyson, I know you voted for Natalie at the end, but I feel like if Natalie had won, it would have been like, this is kind of a joke because she was the first out and spent the whole season on Edge of Extinction. I think that's how the fans would have perceived it.

Speaker 2:
[70:44] That's how the first Edge of Extinction played out.

Speaker 4:
[70:47] Right, and people perceive that winner as a joke. People think Chris Underwood is the weakest winner in the show's history because he literally went home. Yeah, I think people make that argument. I would probably, there's some other names in there, but somebody who literally got voted out being a winner, there's only one person like that. But then Tony wins that season, so Tony wins Winners of War, and we're like, he had a few moments on that season that were just incredible. And so we think incredibly highly of him as a winner for both that game and for his first win in Cagayan. And I think that there's something similar with this season. I mean, if it's, if there are like weird twists down the stretch and somebody kind of stumbles to final travel council and wins like a close vote just because, hey, you got to vote for somebody or they're well liked or whatever, then yeah, we might not elevate that winner as much. But if there's some big gameplay moves from that person. So I don't know, I'm sorry to give the answer of like, it just depends, which is not an answer, but I do think it depends.

Speaker 2:
[71:47] Okay. Well, thank you for not giving us an answer. We also get Devon and Tiffany both pretty much saying that every day is a reset on Survivor. You just have to make it to tomorrow because you never know with the twists and the turns. Sean, has that always been the case with Survivor, like old school Survivor? Or is it more so now? Because I do actually believe that. I think it's hard to convince yourself that you just got to get through to tomorrow and then like re-scramble or re-shuffle or reassess. But I think if you can put yourself in that head space, it's very beneficial as a modern Survivor contestant.

Speaker 3:
[72:32] Yeah, I think for the first time these past five years, the most important word in the slogan is outlast, like outwit and outplay are less influential than they were in the past. And in some ways that meant kind of like your strength. The challenges, I feel like strength and challenges has been dramatically decreased as a positive in the game. Nobody cares.

Speaker 2:
[72:56] You don't win a jury vote by winning challenges.

Speaker 3:
[72:59] Which I think is wrong. I actually have not liked that change a lot. And I think a lot of the sort of like, there's been this arise in winners from my perspective in the last five years or so. And people who are low key players, who are not great television, winning because they're outlasting. They're like maneuvering the game, if not outwitting actively. And it's not a brand of the show that I've really clicked with. It has also dovetailed with this increasing common experience, which also happened in this season of sort of like the runt tribe in the first five episodes of the season, where you get these really weak groups that keep getting like bulldozed.

Speaker 2:
[73:41] I like that. We always call it disaster tribe, but the runt tribe.

Speaker 3:
[73:44] I like that.

Speaker 2:
[73:45] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[73:46] So, you know, like what those two things happening concurrently has shifted the game for me in a way that I, I've been just a little bit less positive about it, even though I still think it's like the absolute like gold standard of this kind of TV show, and I still love it and will watch it forever. But the outlasting things just seems to be the most important thing, you know, it just seems to be like, can you avoid the falling boulders of producing this TV show seems to be the hidden skill? And I don't think Christian was like necessarily on a, well, yeah, I mean, it's the skill in quotes, right? Like, I don't think Christian was on a collision course with Victory if this had not happened to him, but this obviously pretty dramatically altered his ability to go forward in the game. And I mostly want this to be people playing against each other. That's the thing that I like best about it when I'm watching it, is a person makes a decision and that decision either benefits them to go forward in the game, or they get caught, for example, the way that Emily was effectively caught in this episode, that's probably going to damage her ability to go forward in the game. And then that is like really the exploration of human psychology that I think is underpinning what I think is so special about Survivor.

Speaker 4:
[75:00] I completely agree with you, Sean.

Speaker 3:
[75:03] This is kind of taking away from that aspect of the game in a lot of ways. But it is a game show, too. I'm not scolding the producers of the show for making a game show. It's just for what I love about the show. I feel like that has been altered somewhat.

Speaker 4:
[75:18] Yep. And I feel like they do have to do twists to keep the game fresh, otherwise it gets stale. But this is where I'm always like, I want the twists to deliver some decision making to the players. And like Emily says at this tribal council, oh, no one is holding a gun to Christian's head, he chose to go on the journey. But he didn't know anything about what was happening. Like it would be more interesting to me if it were explained when he gets there, hey, this is the risk for trying to do this puzzle, and you can opt out, but you'll have to go back and explain it to people or not. I know that they're scared that too many people had opt out and they wouldn't have enough content for the television show. But I just like, this is why, I mean, the immunity idol was a twist, right? Originally, the show didn't have an immunity idol. They introduce it, and the reason it's so successful is because it creates this decision point where it's like, you have to choose after the votes have been cast, but before they've been read, whether you play it or not, and who you play it on, and it creates all these really, really tense moments of player-led decision-making, and a lot of these other twists that we're getting now, it's a little bit of random chance, and shit just happens.

Speaker 2:
[76:37] I agree. I mean, it's always been like that. To win Survivor, you need some luck, but now it seems like it's heavily tipped on the luck part of the game, and less so on outwit, outlast, outplay. And is that keeping it fresh? I don't know. It does kind of give, it gives a different genre of contestants more hope that they can win this game, which maybe is the goal. Is it the goal to be like, okay, we've got all these new era modern Gen Z-ers like that. Some have not had enough life experience or don't know how to rough it or can't do hard things or don't feel like they can do hard things, but they can win Survivor now. If the Jimmy Fallon one in the urn hits it just the right time, then you could win. That's all it takes is the right country star to spear fish, the right fish at the right moment, and the million dollars is yours. Is there something to that?

Speaker 3:
[77:52] I don't love it.

Speaker 2:
[77:52] No?

Speaker 3:
[77:54] I think it's good to have a pomp and circumstance around 50. I think the inclusion of celebrities in general is not a bad idea. It does seem a little odd to have the inclusion of Jimmy Fallon and Billie Eilish and not see them on the show. That seems to me... So then I think that's creating a little bit of dissension amongst viewers, or it's sort of like, so they just like sent an email? Like what happened here?

Speaker 2:
[78:20] Oh, we saw what happened with Billie Eilish.

Speaker 4:
[78:23] We haven't even gotten one Instagram post from her. Have we gotten anything?

Speaker 2:
[78:25] She was a fan, so they messaged her and said, here's some ideas, and she said, I like the boomerang one. And then they handcrafted the note and sent it to her to approve, and she approved it. So, you know, and maybe it's James Fallon from LinkedIn. It's not even the Jimmy Fallon we're thinking of. Like we don't know. Like is there another James Fallon that has an audience that could vote on if Jeff plays in the game or not? That could easily be possible. You know, he's a pharmaceutical rep from Nebraska, and he was at a conference speaking and put it to a vote. So you never know. That's the thing is that we don't know. But again, would we have wanted to see Billy Eilish Spearfish for half an hour?

Speaker 3:
[79:21] Sure. To me, this is not just to flatter you, Tyson. The move here was to poll previous elite players and winners and have them come up with something. Yes. Because they understand the game better than anybody. It lets you sink history into the show the way we saw in this episode with Jeff's experience of trash talking players. We get to see more people that we love who maybe aren't in this cast, but are a part of the history of the show. And then we also get that really nerdy, Tyson really knows the game. So if he's coming up with an advantage or a challenge or something that I can trust that this is something that he thinks would be cool. And that just to me feels like a misstep. And it feels like your most classic 101 producer brain of like, what if we just get a famous person to do it? Which is just not very, very interesting. But obviously this is a mainstream television show reaching millions of people and people love Billie Eilish and they hear that Billie Eilish isn't in the show. They feel good about it. And maybe those people don't listen every episode of this show, you know, and are not on the message boards and don't think about the show in the same way. But I think because there's been so much effort made to talk about like the true blue fan going into 50, it feels like a little bit of dissonance relative to what we were hoping for.

Speaker 2:
[80:39] So a couple of things. Do we have more viewers now watching because Billie Eilish Boomerang Idol? Are there is the Billie Eilish fandom tuning in and being like, I can't wait to see him say the Billie Eilish Boomerang Idol this episode. Then this episode, they didn't even say it one time and now that audience is now shut off forever or Jimmy Fallon's audience. Are they like you chomping at the bit to see what he brings to the table? Then also in the same vein, is watching Cochran give Saree advice on how to play Survivor?

Speaker 4:
[81:15] Cochran giving Saree advice. I actually do want to see that. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[81:22] Is that also like, I feel like if you're going to have Legends of the Game come back, you can't also have Legends of the Game be in the game. Maybe you can. I would run up and hug Saree and be like, this is so great to see you here. How's everything going? But maybe, I don't know. That's, yeah. Do we want to see that, Sean?

Speaker 3:
[81:42] I think a video message would be fine.

Speaker 2:
[81:44] Why don't you have to go to Fiji?

Speaker 3:
[81:46] Yeah, I don't think you would have to fly to Fiji. I don't think we have to put Cochrane on a plane.

Speaker 2:
[81:50] I think if it's Cochrane, we have to put him on the plane. We have to get him sunburned. We have to make him uncomfortable.

Speaker 3:
[82:00] We'll break his glasses. I think it's more just like making the show, exploiting the show's history. It's got a cool history. Not very many TV shows have this depth of history, this long list of characters. It has entered a kind of like young in the restless general hospital kind of lineage where there's just so few shows that are on for 20 years that have introduced us to so many people we like and we've thought about and we enjoyed watching them go through the stages of the game. Also, it's a game full of brains. Whenever there's an opportunity for that, you want to hear from the brains of the game, not from people. I have nothing against Zach Brown, but I just don't care about that guy. I'm watching Survivor. I'm not thinking about country music.

Speaker 2:
[82:44] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[82:45] For the boomerang idol, I mean, that could have been like JT's boomerang idol. You famously, Tyson, as you know, gave an idol to someone on another tribe. So it's like, there's the history right there. You can do the same twist and then lean into the history of the show.

Speaker 2:
[83:02] Right. I mean, Christian voting for himself, the earned, that could have been me. I essentially voted myself out of Heroes versus Villains. Christian did it better. He did it. He one-upped me. I wasn't allowed to write my own name down and he was. So yeah, that makes sense. There's so much history, you're right.

Speaker 4:
[83:24] Imagine you get the Parvati double idol and it's like, here you go, you have two meanie idols. The twist is, they cannot be used on yourself.

Speaker 2:
[83:31] Yeah. They have to be played at the same tribal council.

Speaker 4:
[83:33] We can do this all day. I know they tinkered with this in Ghost Island a little, but we can do it better for this season, getting the actual legends involved and whatnot.

Speaker 2:
[83:44] Yeah. The only issue with the legends is that if you go to somebody, here's what we want to do, and you'd be like, I don't like that idea. Don't put my name on that. Maybe. I don't know. I think that they could easily go back and forth. Anybody who doesn't want their name on it, they just go to the next person.

Speaker 4:
[84:04] Well, you just find someone on LinkedIn with the same name.

Speaker 2:
[84:06] Exactly. I forgot that loophole. Anything else from tribal council?

Speaker 5:
[84:19] Yeah. We have to mention Coach's Fit, man.

Speaker 4:
[84:21] We saw Coach Alvin. Yeah. He specifically wanted us to check it out. He was watching for his fit.

Speaker 2:
[84:27] I mean, he's posting them on TikTok too. He's doing twirls and stuff. I'm like, this is maybe my favorite genre of TikTok is Coach's Fits.

Speaker 3:
[84:37] I haven't checked out Coach's TikTok. Not sure if I'm going to be doing that.

Speaker 2:
[84:43] Don't be the last one there, Sean.

Speaker 4:
[84:46] Do you have to bring like eight nice outfits to Fiji in case you are the first jury member and you're like, man, I need a new fit every single tribal council?

Speaker 2:
[84:55] Yeah, you do. They do tell you to bring enough for jury just in case you're there. But they also, on the seasons I was on the jury, I think they also had some wardrobe to choose from. If you didn't bring enough, they had a rack of clothing. It was ill-fitting, but some people don't care about that stuff. So you could choose from the rack of stuff. I think I might have.

Speaker 4:
[85:20] Not Coach. That clearly was not off the rack.

Speaker 2:
[85:23] Not Coach. He's come dressed to impress. He has not changed his style since 2008. That is documented. It could go further back than that, but we don't have documentation of it. Let's get to Riley's reads.

Speaker 4:
[85:39] All right. Let's run through our categories here. Who did the most to advance their game this episode?

Speaker 2:
[85:45] Jimmy Fallon.

Speaker 4:
[85:46] I don't know. I feel like Jimmy Fallon damaged this game in my eyes. I know Christian agrees.

Speaker 2:
[85:53] Look at Sean speaking.

Speaker 3:
[85:55] I've never felt better about where Ozzy is in the history of the game. I don't know if he did things, but he didn't make any mistakes. He's not making mistakes. I feel like he has historically played himself out of the game by not realizing what was going on. I'm not as worried about him not knowing what's going on right now.

Speaker 4:
[86:15] There was that moment earlier in the season where it looked like he was going to do exactly that when he was crashing out after that one travel council. He has. He's recovered. It's been very impressive.

Speaker 2:
[86:27] I like that pick. I also keep thinking about the Aubrey and Jonathan conversation. I think Aubrey realizing that things maybe aren't going in favor of the middle people, which she was lumped in with, and making inroads with someone else who had just lost some allies could be a powerful duo. It's another unsuspecting alliance. Like people are saying about Suri and Ozzy, Aubrey and Jonathan is very unsuspecting. I feel like Aubrey was the one that approached it first. So I'm going to give Aubrey credit for that, for making inroads with Jonathan when she could feel that she was maybe going to lose some numbers.

Speaker 5:
[87:10] Okay. I was going to say Aubrey as well. This, her connecting with Jonathan actually helped her get on the right side of the vote. So I'm really happy for her because she could have been in, in Rick and Emily's, you know, Ozzy vote which is going to make it really awkward next episode for both of them. But yeah, I think with Aubrey going to go talk to Jonathan, it helped her and Tiffany's game and to see where the vote is going to be. Then it helped them sincerely be in the middle instead of wherever Devon's and Emily is right now.

Speaker 4:
[87:46] I'm going to shout out Tiffany as well. It was really only a few episodes ago where she was just getting blindsided and was kind of the only person on the other side of the middle. Now she's like worked her way in with Saree. We see a little bit this episode and is not having her name thrown out there and it's kind of just recovered her place in the game very subtly though. Okay, who damaged their game the most? Is this one? I think I've, yeah, I feel like this one might be easy. Emily.

Speaker 3:
[88:18] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[88:21] I don't think we have to say more about that. We already covered that a lot. Emily, yeah, we nailed it.

Speaker 4:
[88:26] We covered it.

Speaker 5:
[88:29] Oh, you know what? I'm going to put Devon's name in there because he never named his idol. We don't know what celebrity is connected to his idol. Every single advantage is connected to a celebrity.

Speaker 6:
[88:39] Oh, that's a great point.

Speaker 3:
[88:41] Actually, Chappell-Roe and Hidden Idol, Machine Gun Kelly.

Speaker 5:
[88:45] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[88:45] Yeah. You know it's fake because there's no celebrity attached to it.

Speaker 3:
[88:51] Wow.

Speaker 4:
[88:51] Man, if somebody put that together, that'd be great. Okay. Let's do winner picks. Sean, do you have a winner pick?

Speaker 3:
[88:59] My heart says Suri.

Speaker 2:
[89:02] What's your head say?

Speaker 4:
[89:03] Me too.

Speaker 3:
[89:07] My head says Suri.

Speaker 2:
[89:09] Okay. I'm still on Suri. I've been on Suri for a couple of weeks. Riley's been on Suri for a long time.

Speaker 3:
[89:16] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[89:17] And Ashleigh.

Speaker 5:
[89:18] I'm staying with Tiffany.

Speaker 3:
[89:20] I like that a lot, Ashleigh. And I do think she's super smart and has also danced between the raindrops a couple of times here. And she's a great communicator. A Suri-Tiff final tribal is a fascinating showdown in terms of advocating for their games and the way that they play. I guess Jonathan is sitting next to them, getting zero votes. That seems like a positive play.

Speaker 2:
[89:52] As he's claiming all the moves.

Speaker 4:
[89:53] Two nuclear bombs and one coffee baby.

Speaker 3:
[89:55] I think to each take away, each move that he claims from him in real time.

Speaker 2:
[89:59] Yeah. I don't hate that. And I was on to Tiffany for a while, and as things were looking down for her, I jumped to Suri because Suri's power just keeps building even this episode. It's like, she's like, I'm in alliance with everybody. My only concern for Suri in this moment is, are those factions going to come together and realize that Suri has pledged allegiance to all of them?

Speaker 4:
[90:28] I feel I'm not ready to get hurt, but I feel like I will. As far as, especially once I put together that her two closest allies, both have idols that they can't actually give to her, I'm scared.

Speaker 2:
[90:41] Listen, Riley, I hope that she wins because she's our winner pick. But if she doesn't, it will be okay. We will at least get to meet her at the finale.

Speaker 4:
[90:52] That's true. She's been on this pod too, so I've gotten that, but the in-person effect will be incredible. So yeah, let's do who's going home next week.

Speaker 3:
[91:05] Devon's.

Speaker 4:
[91:07] That's who I had. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[91:09] I don't think he's put himself in a good position here.

Speaker 4:
[91:10] I think it might just be, I think now that he didn't play the idol this week, it's like, can that thing be real? And who did he tell? Loose Lips, Emily.

Speaker 2:
[91:25] Because I was going to say Emily, but her defense will be telling everyone that Devon's idol isn't real.

Speaker 5:
[91:31] Yeah, that could save her for at least one more episode, I think. I think that's her last big secret.

Speaker 2:
[91:38] Yeah, I believe it will be between those two. If Devon gets wind of it, I mean, Devon can still threaten to play his idol. As long as Emily isn't the other target, and Emily has no reason to weaponize that knowledge against Devon, then she'll be okay, or he'll be okay. I think Devon can go one more round with the idol. He can be like, I didn't really feel like I needed to, I'm going to play it this time. He can do a Rizzo, like what Rizzo did last season. But if Emily feels like there's some heat on her, then Devon is dead. I was going to say Emily.

Speaker 4:
[92:23] Okay. So we all think it's one of these two.

Speaker 2:
[92:27] Yeah, which means we're wrong.

Speaker 5:
[92:29] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[92:31] What else we got Riley?

Speaker 5:
[92:32] No, that's it.

Speaker 2:
[92:33] That's it. Okay. Before we take off, I got a text message from a friend of the show, Brandon Donlon, who's been on, he was on Survivor. He said, Sean Fennessey. What?

Speaker 4:
[92:51] For a few minutes, he was on Survivor.

Speaker 2:
[92:52] Yeah. Some of the greatest falls in the history of Survivor too.

Speaker 4:
[92:56] We love Brandon.

Speaker 2:
[92:57] I love Brandon. We do love Brandon. He's so funny.

Speaker 4:
[92:58] He's so funny about his appearance.

Speaker 2:
[93:00] So he said, Sean Fennessey is so baller, that's so fucking cool. He saw you announce on social media that you were going to be on the podcast. And my goal in life is to make people envious of what I've got going on. So if I can make one person envious in the day, my job is done and, Sean, you helped me achieve that.

Speaker 3:
[93:23] I am but your Jimmy Fallon, guiding you, hopefully not to doom Tyson. Feel free to use my name next time. Feel free to use my name to create idle ideas for future installments of Survivor. And feel free to have me back, because I just love Survivor and I love what you guys are doing and I appreciate the time. And shout out to Brendan for giving a damn about where the hell I am.

Speaker 2:
[93:46] Yeah, shout out to Brandon. You can follow Sean on all social medias, probably, I'm just assuming. And you can listen to him at The Big Picture and subscribe to his brand new newsletter. How do we do that, Sean?

Speaker 3:
[94:02] It's seanfennessey.substack.com. You can find it all there.

Speaker 2:
[94:07] And do you talk about Survivor there?

Speaker 3:
[94:09] Well, you know what? The answer is yes. That wasn't part of the-

Speaker 2:
[94:12] You have to to get-

Speaker 3:
[94:14] Well, I'll be promoting this conversation.

Speaker 2:
[94:15] To get our fandom there. Yes, of course. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[94:17] Great. And whether or not that's something we'll do every week, I don't really want to cut in to what you guys have going on here. But maybe a quick note about what's going on with the show.

Speaker 2:
[94:29] Yeah. And feel free to send us your notes. And if we want to steal them as our own ideas and share them on the podcast, we'll do that all the time. Thank you all for tuning in. We will be talking to Christian tomorrow. Sean, again, thank you for your time, energy and wisdom. Ashleigh, thank you for making us sound and look amazing, as well as your insights. And Riley, the Wolf of Quiet Pines, not always so quiet. And we appreciate that. Thank you, Riley. Until tomorrow. See ya.