transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[01:37] There's no one like you, and there never will be.

Speaker 3:
[01:39] From the producer of Bohemian Rhapsody, there are many legends, but there is only one. Michael. Rated PG-13. In theaters April 24.

Speaker 2:
[02:11] Well, actually, they didn't really win the game, at all.

Speaker 4:
[02:45] Yes, that's right, the Survivor Know-It-Alls are back! Rob Cesternino is off hobnobbing with the glitterati in Toronto. So I'm joined here by a real no, it all, Owen Knight, who made it all the way to the finale, which Rob Cesternino has never done. And also lost there, which makes him perfectly suited to be here. Owen Knight, what a welcome surprise. I guess it's not a surprise. What a welcome thing.

Speaker 5:
[03:10] I'm surprised you're an audience, but great to see you, Stephen. You get to hop knob with the illiterati here today. I have not finished Escape yet. I'm sorry to tell you, I'm halfway through. Thoroughly enjoying it. But I figured I'd rip the Band-Aid off and just tell you now in case you were trying to get too referential with me. But no, I'm honored to be here. Really, really good to be talking about this. I thought it was a great episode, although obviously very dissatisfied and sad about the result. But I enjoyed the journey to get there nonetheless. But really good to be back.

Speaker 4:
[03:41] Truly, it's not about the journey, which you're not supposed to go on the journey, Owen. But it is where it is about the journey, but you're not supposed to go, but not about the destination, which was a very sad ouster of Dear Friend and Clock Tower antagonist Christian Kubicki eliminated here. All thanks to Jimmy Fallon. Maybe let's discuss it. But Owen, before we get into it, what's going on with you?

Speaker 5:
[04:05] What is going on? Well, baby Lenny, she is about to be seven months old. So in the trenches, actually, I'm actually more tired than when I spoke to you last season. I remember you being pleasantly surprised at how alert I was, but a little bit of a sleep transition from the bassinet to the crib. So had a little bit of a rough week, but things are good. Life is good. I'm excited for this weekend. I don't know if we want to tell folks at the top, but yeah, I'm headed to Final Three Con to play a lot of Clock Tower with you and Franny and Emily Flippin and Dwight and back in my old stomping grounds in the DC area. So really pumped for that. And yeah, life is good. Life is good.

Speaker 4:
[04:46] Yeah. I'm really excited to see you. It's one of those things that nobody really tells you. You're like, oh, you've got a newborn. Are you sleeping? But in fact, the newborn, they sleep typically like often they sleep through the night. And so, you know, especially for the dad, like, because you're not nursing every few minutes, it's not as exhausting as when they're like seven months and they're having sleep regressions and they're screaming and a bit of an adventure. Yeah, my daughter is two and a half and she's having a sleep regression, too.

Speaker 5:
[05:12] So I'm also more forward to.

Speaker 4:
[05:13] Yeah, it never ends. Oh, and it never ends.

Speaker 5:
[05:15] But I definitely was screaming and crying by the end of the episode, for sure, with the the ouster of our friend Christian here. That was it felt like a little bit of a long goodbye. I don't know if you saw it coming. I saw your clip with Phil from the specialist saying you you kind of saw this coming down the pipe. Is that how you felt watching the episode unravel to?

Speaker 4:
[05:32] Well, Phil really put it to me. You know, he really like you got to like rank everybody. And then, you know, Rob and I talked about it last week. We both kind of felt that, you know, the middle or the nerds, whatever you want to call them, were due for a loss here. They they had kind of, you know, the sort of old school alliance, which is mostly composed of new school players now, was was just took a few hits with the loss of Chrissy and coach. And so it seemed like, you know, the middle was ready. It was their time because it was like too much of a threat, especially with Rick playing that idol. So I thought that it was likely that it was going to be Christian, if anyone going home, because Rick would maybe be seen to be, you know, a little bit more immune. Like no one, they maybe were not willing to stack votes on Rick and then Christian sort of was, as I said, as I said, with Phil on the Survivor Specialists, it's kind of the pure expression of the middle or like the nerd and like just in the same way that he was on David versus Goliath, you know, the David of all Davids, you know, I think here he kind of personified that middle. And then there was a lot of other stuff that went wrong for him too, including Jimmy Fallon, you know, once again, once again, Jimmy Fallon ruining it. So very excited to talk through it with you here, Owen. Give me your overall. So you enjoyed this episode. We're sad about the end. Do you feel what else could Christian have done to save himself? Like, give me the narrative for you of what went wrong.

Speaker 5:
[06:53] I, you know, it's it's obviously I'm a little biased since I consider Christian a friend and I love the guy and he's been such great TV. But I feel like there's not a ton different he could have done. I mean, his hands were tied in terms of having to read his his note of shame, as he called it in front of everyone. He had no way to at least try to finagle some sort of creative penalty. He could have said, I lost the puzzle or whatever. You know, he didn't have that option that most people have coming back from a journey. He had already one vote in the urn against him. So, you know, at this kind of like early merge stage of the game, I do think oftentimes I heard you say this last week, you know, it's often where the wheel ends up landing. And oftentimes people are looking for like the path of least resistance. And so to already have a vote against him, to have played such a big game up to this point in the pre-merge, he was such a juicy target. And like you said, kind of the personification of that nerdy, you know, cerebral archetype, it he had a huge uphill battle. And, you know, by nothing that he necessarily did, it did seem that on the surface people were considering maybe voting for Emily and utilizing the split with Rick. And I guess that could maybe be where you had the opportunity to try to get creative with the numbers. If you know that they are splitting votes on Devons and you, is there a way you can try to scoop up a Tiffany and Aubrey and try to see if you can get something done with like four votes? But even then, that is such an insurmountable and like pretty miniscule chance of working. But maybe if we had seen that, but I do commend, you know, Emily and Rick for sticking with him and just kind of going down with the ship. And I don't know, that's how I, I often played whether it was by design or on purpose, but I do appreciate when people are willing to, you know, stay with the deck chairs on the Titanic and just try to see what they can do tomorrow. But yeah.

Speaker 4:
[08:44] Do you think they knew? I mean, I mean, this is because this is like traditionally considered like a strategic misstep, right? Is to vote, you know, against someone else instead of your ally, instead of against your ally, because then you're just alienating that person. Do you think they knew? Did everybody know it was Christian going home? Because Christian didn't even necessarily seem to, I mean, from his reactions, he seemed a little bit bummed out that it was him.

Speaker 5:
[09:06] He said he was blindsided in his final words, which I found quite surprising. I wonder if he thought Devons would end up going home there.

Speaker 4:
[09:13] So flipping, I mean, it seemed like there was a real push to get rid of Emily.

Speaker 5:
[09:16] Yeah, it did. It did. So I, I don't know. I don't know if they knew and I'm not commending their the strategic side of the move. I am saying like I respect it on like a character personal level, like, you know, sticking with your alliance until the bitter end. There is something that I appreciate about that. That feels a little bit more old school survivor to me. So I do, you know, appreciate when someone does that. But yeah, I am curious what they thought. And you know, you could see a world where Devons maybe would have like tearfully put a vote on Christian knowing that they are probably splitting the votes. And like, that would probably be the most like self sufficient, not self sufficient, self preservation move for Devons would be to just say like, look, they are splitting it on us. I got to get as many numbers on the other target as I can. So I don't know. I guess maybe they didn't. I was surprised when Christian said he felt blindsided by that.

Speaker 4:
[10:05] Well, I want to go back shortly and talk through the whole episode and, you know, kind of everything that led to this and certainly the journey, which did seem to really put the nail in his coffin. But from my perspective, everything started going wrong for Christian when he approaches Suri and says, we need to get out Ozzie. You know, the episode starts. There's all this heat on Rick. You know, Christian and Rick are talking about Jonathan. And then Christian has this epiphany moment of, wait a second, nobody's talking about Ozzie. He's got an idol. He's in the real middle. Why don't we blindside him? And then he goes and pitches it to the literal worst person to pitch it to, who is Suri, who, as we the audience know, is Ozzie's number one. And allegedly nobody else on the beach knows that. Where are you on this? So, you know, of course, I mean, again, like I've talked about this in the past. You know, I have played with people who were on a season together, and I lost sight of the fact that they were on that season together. You know, Spencer and Tasha or Raymond and Tasha on Cambodia had played together, and it was like, I really thought that Tasha was with me over over Spencer, you know, who's then Spencer. And I was wrong. I was just totally wrong about that. And I've always said, you know, you've got to be aware of these people who have played together because their relationships are are really deep. Can we excuse this misstep, you know, from because because because Emily made the same mistake and the reason that Emily because as soon as Christian says this to Saree, Saree brings in Ozzy, says, I got to let you know. And then she brings in Jonathan and says, Christian's gunning for you. And really, Saree seems like committed to putting the nail in Christian's coffin. Then Emily does the exact same thing. Right. Goes to Saree and says, we got to get out of the like literally the exact same thing that Christian did. And then the vote is on almost on Emily.

Speaker 5:
[11:57] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[11:58] How much blame do you put on Christian here for not like nobody seems to see this Ozzy-Saree relationship?

Speaker 5:
[12:06] Yeah. Yeah. If it was like Christian doing this, I would put a little more blame on to him and like think he was, you know, blinded by his relationship or whatever. But clearly seeing that other people, Emily going to Saree as well, I think it's more of a pro in Saree's column than it is a negative for either of them. And I think it just speaks to how powerful her mist is. Right. Like this has been kind of the through line for the season is just how is Saree continuing to get away with this? Like she literally laid out the whole board and it's clear she she and the Wizard of Oz Alliance are in the middle and they are really the true middle, but nobody knows it. Everyone thinks that they are with them and that is such a huge, huge compliment to Saree and Rizzo and Ozzy for the way they're playing. I really am so impressed by her because you know, we've seen her play these games, what, four or five times at this point and everyone knows she is a gangster in an Oprah suit. She is one of the best social players of all time. And yet everyone is just like falling over themselves, wanting to align with her. And I'm just so impressed and I've had the pleasure of meeting Saree a couple of times. And I mean, it's the exact same with me. I'm just like, oh my God, like, it's so nice to be like, it's just, you want her to like you. And there's just, she's got, she's got the sauce, whatever it is.

Speaker 4:
[13:22] So she's so self-possessed, you know, she never seems like she's trying in a way that a lot of these, you know, I think Survivor contestants, Reality TV contestants, generally, they always seem like they're trying to like, they're trying really hard to get you to like them. I know I come off that way, like, oh, look at me doing my little song and dance. And, you know, she's just so chill and so self-possessed. And like that exudes so much confidence. And, you know, it really does.

Speaker 5:
[13:46] As Rizzo and the kids would say, for sure.

Speaker 4:
[13:48] I don't know. I don't understand that. Not being a kid. But let's talk about this from from the decision of the majority that makes this call. Right. So everybody but, let's say, the Middle Alliance, we've got a lot of people in the middle.

Speaker 5:
[14:04] I think we can call them nerds, Stephen. We're nerds ourselves. And Aubrey, Aubrey said it on the program this week. So it is not an embargo on the word nerd, which is good.

Speaker 4:
[14:11] I just love middle as a euphemism for nerd. I think it's so funny. So I am hoping that in the future, I can remember to call nerds the middle. But but so the middle has the or sorry, the strong, the jocks have this choice between which middle to eliminate here. And so Emily is in the crosshairs because she basically does the exact same thing Christian did. She goes over to Tiffany and Suri and says, like, I want it to be Aussie. So then suddenly, Suri says, no, it should be Emily. And Tiffany is really pushing hard for that because she wants that to be her move. Like she thinks like I need to build my resume. Rizzo, on the other hand, is really pushing hard for Christian because he does not have a vote or the ability to play his shot in the dark. Do they make the right? And then of course, there's Devons, you know, like there's a real case to be made that you should pile votes on Rick because you don't force him to play the idol. Like if you're worried about the idol, we talked about this a lot last season. If you're actually worried about the idol, you have to force it to either be played or be.

Speaker 5:
[15:12] Or they go home.

Speaker 4:
[15:13] Yeah, or they go home, right. So where are you? Was this the right choice? Obviously, we love Christian, we love Emily, we love Rick, we love you all. But was this the right choice for that group?

Speaker 5:
[15:23] I'm leaning towards yes. If anything, honestly, I think Rick is more of an immunity threat. So I could see why they would lean Christian just since he was such a sitting duck this week. I really do, like you said, I think the journey was the nail in the coffin. He already has an extra vote on him. Zero chance of playing the shot in the dark. He physically gave away the shot in the dark. So he's really just there just, you know, his pants down and he has no really defense against anything. But I do think it was funny. I loved seeing the scene with Emily and the rice and Suri getting annoyed. And I wrote down in my notes, like bring back Petty Survivor. Like I love that just her being annoyed could end up swinging the pendulum a little bit.

Speaker 4:
[16:06] But it was a lot of rice.

Speaker 5:
[16:07] I mean, it seems like a lot of generous portion. Yeah. Yeah. To Emily's defense. Yeah. But I do think both Christian and Devon's are bigger immunity threats as we move forward. And if you're thinking as the majority alliance, we just want to nip this in the bud, squash this alliance once and for all. The last couple variables that can put a wrench into your plans are idols advantages and then immunity necklaces. And so I guess I could see why they would be gun shy about Rick with potentially playing an idol. But I agree with you. Like if make him play it, like put five on him and four on Christian or however the math works. But I do think Emily, they'll have more opportunities to go for Emily. And she seems a little it appears a little less connected. I guess she and Ozzy have something going on, but then she openly says that she wants to target him. So that bridge is burned. So where else is she going to go? Whereas Christian, I think they're a little bit more afraid of him just as a player and as a potential immunity threat. No shade to Emily, but I think he was too big of a target to pass up here.

Speaker 4:
[17:12] Yeah, now in terms of splitting the votes, there were 11 people, right? And there are three people. So there are 11 people in the tribe. And of course, there's an alliance of three with Christian, Emily and Rick. But Christian is voting for himself here. So that's essentially one member of the vote split. So you really only have Emily and Rick that you're worried about. But I think in a situation like this, even with like a nine to two vote, I would be scared of a true split, you know, with a potential idol in play. Like if they if we were to, you know, because like, what if Aubrey is lying to you? No, she she sure looks like a middle. You know, then, you know, where's Rizzo? Like, you know, then one person switches their vote and your whole plan is screwed and you're the one going home. So, yeah, I mean, Basile is very anti split vote. And I'm like a little more dodgy on it. I mean, I participated in two tribal councils in Cambodia, one of which split vote went right and one of which went wrong. And one of which, like a non split vote went wrong. And in both cases, the audience was yelling at us like, why didn't you split the vote or like, why did you split the vote?

Speaker 5:
[18:16] Right.

Speaker 4:
[18:16] So whatever you do, if it goes either one could go wrong. And if it does, people are going to be shouting at you.

Speaker 5:
[18:22] Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's an exact science to it. And it does. I mean, I was talking about this earlier. It does leave the opportunity for a group of four people to totally go rogue and mix something up. So I think they did what they had to do. It made sense as Christian as the target. And yeah, with the potential for an idol, I don't blame them. I don't put it as a knock against them. Because to me, I think Devons and Christian are similar threat levels in terms of being potential adversaries for that honor and integrity group. So I think they were probably equally happy with either of them going home. And if Rick is burning his idol, is what I guess they think is going to happen. They could potentially get him next. So yeah, I'm not going to give them too much flack for.

Speaker 4:
[19:09] Yeah, I think Rizzo was right here. Christian is and I think you're right as well. Christian was the right call, as sad as I am to say it. You know, he he literally has a vote against him. Right. And and the fact that he can't play a shot in the dark, I think is so crucial here to pile votes on him. You know, someone says something like, oh, it's too easy. You know, that's like you can't do that. It's too obvious. Like, that's where survivor contestants in this day and age like get tripped up. Is they see something like a really juicy target? They're like, no, I can't do the easy obvious thing. I've got to do this complicated other thing with like 50% chance of blowing up in my face.

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Speaker 7:
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Speaker 8:
[23:31] K-pop demon hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?

Speaker 6:
[23:40] It's not a battle.

Speaker 8:
[23:41] So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

Speaker 5:
[23:45] It is an honor to share.

Speaker 6:
[23:47] No, it's our honor.

Speaker 8:
[23:49] It is our larger honor. No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

Speaker 9:
[23:59] I participate in McDonald's while supplies last.

Speaker 4:
[24:02] But let's talk about that extra vote here. So at the end of the immunity challenge, should we talk about that or do you want to talk about the immunity challenge? Why don't we talk about the immunity challenge itself? Very fun immunity challenge. Loved it. Yeah. So, I mean, Jeff gets a lot of flack for like inserting. I just I feel like I on Facebook, I just saw like some article was just pushed into my feed. You know, Jeff is always in the cell phone to the seat. Yes. That's the one. But I loved this. I thought it was super fun. Give me your thoughts about this. You know, this on its own merits and then this is opposed to the rice negotiation, which it was replacing.

Speaker 5:
[24:42] I loved it. Honestly, unabashedly like I am not apologizing. I had fun watching this segment. This is the most I have smiled watching an immunity challenge since I was watching myself compete in an immunity challenge, like genuinely like I had a blast. It took me back to feeling like a little kid and say what you will about watching Survivor as this exercise and social strategy and like, you know, watching it more cerebrally as you grow up. But like, I do think there is something really special about watching Survivor and me getting teleported back to 2003 or whatever and just feeling like, you know, smiling and kicking my feet watching the show that I love. You know, I think I have lacked that sometimes and part of it's been I've been tired and I've had to more passively watch the season, but I definitely do feel more a little grumpy watching the show than than I used to and I'm always bitching and moaning about twists and things. And like this was just pure fun to me. It was it brought in this element, the question of rice, and it did it in a way that I felt was harmless. And I think that's where sometimes these twists can get some fair criticism is that they are impacting the game in a way that is so produced and sometimes just out of the players hands. But this to me, like it's pretty low stakes in the grand scheme of things. Like they'll live if they don't get the rice. It adds a fun little side element to watching the challenge and you get to see Jeff do a challenge and you could see as it went on like his genuine like, oh wow, this is harder than I thought. Like I had a blast, I really, really enjoyed it.

Speaker 4:
[26:12] Well part of the fun of it is that Jeff was terrible, you know, and he just kept complaining about it. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing so badly. And he kept, I mean, like I honestly, like if Jeff had been awesome at this challenge and smoked them, I think this is a much less satisfying viewing experience.

Speaker 5:
[26:28] That's true. And I loved all the contestants talking shit to him. Oh my God. And the supercut of sassy Jeff, like bringing back the attack zone, like, oh, like that's just that's that's what fifty should be about. It's like a celebration of the the the history of the show and everything that we've watched. And it just felt fun and celebratory and warm. And and like I said, it's it's a twist and it's a little like, you know, tinkering with the structure of the game. But it's not like if he had one, it's not going to like horrendously impact anyone's chances of winning, except maybe Jonathan, apparently, since he's so calorically dependent. But like it's I loved it. I unapologetically loved it. And it was it was just it was neat. It was cute. It was fun.

Speaker 4:
[27:09] But like, is there a world where you think that Jeff threw genuinely some serious effing forearms and like the fact that he really underperformed almost everybody, you know, I think there were four people out.

Speaker 5:
[27:21] Right.

Speaker 4:
[27:22] So the first one to drop is Rizzo, potentially just so that he can be the announcer. Like, is that is that is that viable? Flippin goes right after him. Then Rick drops, maybe also because he's like, no, Rizzo is not doing such a good job. I want to be the I got to take over. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then I think maybe one other person drops, maybe Surrey dropped. And then and then and then Jeff was fifth. I guess that is did he throw?

Speaker 5:
[27:51] I don't think so.

Speaker 4:
[27:52] I really thought I was watching either. But he's also, you know, he's an actor.

Speaker 5:
[27:56] That's true. That is true. He does have some credits to his name. No, I don't think he would have. I think I, you know, I feel like he would relish the opportunity to kick Jonathan's ass in a challenge. He would never shut up about that. And I mean this in the most like complimentary way, but like, like I remember being surprised at how jacked Jeff is when I, when I saw him in person the first time, like he's in very good shape. But I've, I've done this challenge. This is the Gabler, you know, with this minutes for Alaska, this minutes for my dog challenge and it's, it's hard, but like I could see, you know, especially like as you get older, like I don't know if there's any element of like grip strength that diminishes as you age or whatever. So like, who knows? But I don't think he would have thrown. I don't think that would have made for as compelling, like narrative for him, even though like it probably is better TV to have it be this way. Like, I think he's like a competitor enough and like has like enough pride in himself to want to like give it his all personally.

Speaker 4:
[28:51] So you're just saying, you're saying that Jeff just has gym muscles.

Speaker 5:
[28:55] Yeah, I guess they're all for show and they're all for tennis. Yeah, is that the term? Yeah. Yeah. He's all he's all just doing it for to look good in his polo and his his PFG shirts. You know, it's great.

Speaker 4:
[29:06] You know, do you think Jeff got to like, like, like, try it out? Like did Jeff practice?

Speaker 5:
[29:13] That's a good I don't think we got to practice. If I recall the mechanism on this one doesn't really allow for practicing because like sometimes you know, Jeff's had access to this challenge for, you know, six months.

Speaker 4:
[29:23] Like, that's true.

Speaker 5:
[29:24] Ian, I don't know. You would think if he practiced, he would last longer than seven minutes.

Speaker 4:
[29:29] You know, I'm guessing it seemed like I choose. I choose to believe that this is real. I'm I'm, you know, David Duchovny in The X-Files. I want to believe that this is real. It was all real. It was all real. Like Jeff legitimately did not practice because he felt like that would be unfair. He like had a thing. And then he just like really struggled. He genuinely struggled with it. It was sort of like I think he also obviously recognized the humor of the moment of like him just like absolutely face planning on him. And I think was like maybe enjoying that as well. But it was great. It was very fun. How did you feel about the reveal? It's in the like what's in the box?

Speaker 5:
[30:07] Yeah, the seven call out. Yeah, it was funny because it kind of fell flat. He pushed the thing over and everyone's like, what? Like, what is this? What is this? But then once he got going, everyone got excited. So no, I liked it. I would have had a blast with it if I was there. Jeff was competing in a challenge because it's one of those things. It's like, you know, for better or for worse, people do feel this almost like familial connection to Jeff. At this point, he's become such a figurehead of the show and people have these like deep, like, you know, arguably parasocial feelings about him. But like to compete against Jeff Probst in a challenge and being able to say forever. Yeah, I kick Jeff's ass. And where do you say that?

Speaker 4:
[30:45] Like at a cocktail party? Like where are you bringing like a Twitter?

Speaker 5:
[30:48] That's a good question. A tombstone, maybe? I don't know. I don't know where you could put that. But I would, I'd, you know, I do. That would be one of the first things. Like if you get home from Survivor and you're talking to your wife and you say, guess what? I beat Jeff in a challenge. I don't know. I'd be pretty.

Speaker 4:
[31:04] But me and like six other people beat Jeff in a challenge. Like he didn't do that well. It wasn't that he wasn't that good. You know, if it was like a head to head, like hero challenge, you know, that's true.

Speaker 5:
[31:12] It wasn't like it was a, it was a head banger down to the 50th minute or something. But yeah, I liked it.

Speaker 4:
[31:18] How do you think this compares from like a strategic, like game perspective to the negotiation, which it replaced it?

Speaker 5:
[31:25] Well, I think the negotiation has just totally lost all its water at this point. And it's like, it's not even negotiation anymore because people will be like, Jeff, what about four people? It's like, fuck you. Like he's like, he just has totally stopped entertaining a back and forth and that. So it's not really a negotiation. It's more of a price. You know, you have to buy your rice with a certain number of sitouts. So I think this was more compelling TV. And I don't think it was detrimental to the game structure or anything. And I don't think the negotiation itself was super additive to the game, too, because particularly at the stage of the game where they're doing it, it is often where, you know, these bigger alliances are still there. And the game is not quite as necessarily fluid most in a lot of the seasons. So there's often a huge majority that can just feel like, yeah, I'll sit out, whatever. Like it usually those, at least for me, kind of fall flat. I don't know. What do you think?

Speaker 4:
[32:21] Yeah, I agree with you, Owen. You know, I think that it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed this. I think that the negotiation kind of feels like a dead moment now. And I really thought this was like exciting. It was interesting to watch. It was fun. It was like you said, it was like it was just fun. You know, at first, I mean, when it when it first happened, I had literally just read that uncle Jeff, you know, article or even I think maybe just the headline of the subhead. You know, is Jeff inserting himself too much into the show? And I was like, well, this is really going to give the haters a lot of ammunition. But then it was very, very fun. I thought it was I liked it. I thought the way it played out was really fun. And of course, like I thought he was he seemed to be having a lot of fun with it. It was just like fun to and the contestants were having fun. And I think like that really is when the game or the show is maybe the most fun is why everyone is having fun playing it. You know, it can be intense and fascinating. But I think like it's like fun when everyone is having fun. So I really I really enjoyed it. You know, it was very funny that he had the knife. He brought out the knife. He had this whole series of props. They're like, no, no, no.

Speaker 5:
[33:20] Yeah. Don't make me do it. Don't make me do it. What did you think about Joe going to the rock, paper, scissors tournament? So we have to talk about that.

Speaker 4:
[33:31] Great, great question. So Joe wins the challenge. Ultimately, he lost to David previously. I think Ozzy was like, I'm not going to last 20 minutes on this thing or whatever it was. An hour, an hour, like Joe lasted. So then they have an opportunity of who to send to exile or sorry, on a journey. And basically everybody raises their hands and Joe defaults to rock, paper, scissors. I thought this was, I was shocked and outraged. I was texting people like, can you believe how dumb this is? Literally, Christian, the guy that want to get out, who's in and like ends up going because of rock, paper, scissors. You have the opportunity. It just seems like such, such terrible strategy. Even in Survivor token chains, six thousand years ago, we were only sending people to the places where they get advantages, if they were in our alliance and if we could trust them.

Speaker 5:
[34:23] Right.

Speaker 4:
[34:24] And you had Ozzy right there raising his hand. I get the idea that you don't necessarily want to expose your alliance with Ozzy.

Speaker 5:
[34:29] Everybody knows Joe, like everyone knows where he stands.

Speaker 4:
[34:33] But Ozzy almost like it seems like every like Ozzy is like almost a stealthy ally for a lot of people and like he's not necessarily in a clear alliance. But you know, he's not sending Rick. Like we know we know Joe's not sending Rick. So I thought this was like just like shockingly bad strategy to like give Christian an opportunity to completely upend. But no, it turns out it probably would not actually have, even if Christian had broken out an idol there, Rick still would have gone home. So it wouldn't have actually screwed their alliance. But it was one of those things that could have screwed their alliance.

Speaker 5:
[35:04] 100 percent.

Speaker 4:
[35:06] So where were you on that?

Speaker 5:
[35:07] Well, and it's so ironic because as we saw discussed earlier, like the whole journey is what kind of put the nail in the coffin for Christian. So like task failed successfully, I suppose. Right. Like it ended up working out really in a good way for that alliance. But I was really Joe's interesting to me because I really feel that I would not necessarily enjoy playing with Joe, but I would love to hang out with Joe. Like Joe seems like such a sweet guy. I was genuinely like starting to tear up a bit when he was talking to his sister in the middle of the challenge. Like he seems like such a good human being and a good dude. And I was like, man, I'm too hard on Joe. And then he starts doing Rock, Paper, Scissors. I was just like, what the hell are you doing? Like I'm completely with you. Just like the potential risk of what this could be. You've got this very short target list of two, maybe three people between Devin's Christian and Emily. And yeah, what are you doing? Especially as Joe, if I'm branded as Mr. Honor Integrity, Ozzy, you go, you got second place. Great battle, brother. It's such a layup. It's such a layup. And no one would bat an eye at Joe being the person to give it to whoever got second place, even if ostensibly they are not number one super close allies. So I was befuddled by that. But it's just so funny.

Speaker 4:
[36:28] Let me lay this on you, though. Is there a world where Joe does not want Ozzy to go? We see a conversation between Joe and Jonathan and Stephanie when they are talking about Ozzy and they are saying like, yeah, we need to like be with him for now. We, you know, he's got, he's one of us for now, but like we don't want to put all our eggs in that basket. They know Ozzy has an idol. Maybe they don't want to give Ozzy more ammunition simply because like they see him as a potential real threat down the road.

Speaker 5:
[36:56] That's a really good point. And honestly, I had forgotten about that, that element of the Joe Steph Jonathan conversation. So yeah, I could see that. But even still, he's not your threat right now. But I guess if you're, if you're like, if you're them and you're thinking, okay, this is our final three, we got to get to the end no matter what. We'll start with the middle people, the nerds, and then we'll work our way through everybody else. Yeah, I guess there is a world where you're worried about the next couple of days going up against that alliance, Ozzy and whoever they think he's with, with multiple advantages. I could see that being threatening, so I don't know, maybe he was just so overwhelmed by the decision that he's like, ah, whatever, rock, paper, scissors.

Speaker 4:
[37:35] Well, that's kind of what I'm thinking, if you're like, my options are Devon's, who I hate, Christian, who we're talking about getting out right now, Flippin, who we also want to get out, and Ozzy, who I don't want to give more power to. Maybe I just kind of like, I throw my hands up and like kind of fate decide.

Speaker 5:
[37:53] Tomato, tomato. It's all kind of like these are ideal, right? I'm just surprised none of his closer allies volunteered and raise their hands. That to me is almost more Jonathan not racist.

Speaker 4:
[38:03] It was Jonathan's hand not up.

Speaker 5:
[38:04] I can't remember.

Speaker 4:
[38:05] I think maybe I'm mistaken, but I kind of think Jonathan might have been up for it.

Speaker 5:
[38:09] Was he not in the in the tournament? I thought it was just a four four person tournament. Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[38:14] I mean, we only saw for a rock, paper, scissors, but, you know, editing. I honestly don't remember if Jonathan was there. That was a mistake to not send Jonathan. But then Jonathan really needed that rice. So, I mean, like, you know, I do think you're right that the things that make Joe a wonderful human are probably things that make him a frustrating survivor player, you know, that commitment to your word, that commitment to loyalty and integrity are wonderful. And I think also very, you know, frustrating when you're watching someone play, play Survivor. And I also think, like a lot of people, for whatever deep seeded issues or deep seeded reasons, like when it comes to this, like very intense, pressurized game, like you kind of see, like other like aspects of them, like emerge that are not part of their daily persona. You know, I mean, I certainly didn't was not my best self when I was playing Survivor. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, you see the extreme versions of that. Like, you know, Abby Maria is a little renowned to be such a lovely person in real life and yet also renowned to be, in Malcolm's words, a dementor on while playing Survivor. You know, and there's other, you know, it just like brings out this paranoia in everybody playing with it. And for some people that resonates like more deeply than others. And maybe Joe, who holds like so tightly to these principles, like maybe he's just someone who like really gets destabilized when, you know, he's in a fluid situation like that. But I am actually finding him more frustrating this season, maybe because I'm so Rick Devon's coded. You know, maybe I like I really loved I really enjoyed Joe in season 48. I think I was one of the few who was like a real Joe advocate, but I'm finding it more frustrating.

Speaker 5:
[39:50] No, I agree. Well, and it feels like this season he is trying to foist his style on to people, maybe a little bit more or ascribing badness to other people or not following his same code to a more severe degree than he was in 48. So, yeah, I'm not necessarily anti Joe, but I will say like I just I would find him frustrating to play with and would probably end up not, you know, and end up being more on the Christian Devon's Emily side of things for sure.

Speaker 4:
[40:21] Well, it was a very funny conflict between Joe and Rick where Joe's like, and I, you know, I didn't vote for you and Rick's like, yes, but you wanted to and you were trying to and like, and Joe, Joe's like, you know, and then Joe, like, I think like both of both of them walk away feeling like they're the victor in that, like I didn't get into it. He was trying to provoke me, but I didn't get into it. Like that was like that's growth, which was sort of a very funny confessional. It's really like the best part of Survivor is seeing two people who just cannot bear each other. Yeah, forced to work together or at least pretend to work together in, you know, in a pressurized environment. This is what Survivor is about for me. Is this sort of like tension between like this oil and water tension between Joe and Rick?

Speaker 5:
[41:05] A hundred percent. And yeah, the hugging it out and everything. And you can tell they're both, like you said, they're just walking away feeling so good about it, but they're telling us it's just, it's incredible. And it just that interpersonal dynamics. Like when you go back to the whole like thesis of the show, it being a social experiment, like this is what we're talking about, right? Like you've got this overly bombastic newscaster who loves the theater of it all versus this like very grounded, intense firefighter type. And just like their personalities could not be more different. And like in the real world, they probably would get along. But then like in this, in this scenario of the show is created, it's just, oh, it's so juicy. I loved that. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[41:43] Yeah. It was very funny when Joe was like doing that parody of Rick, like looking for the idol and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[41:51] He really got into it. And then that's the Joe that I see that it's like, this dude would be fun to drink beers with and hang out. Like, like he's just goofing around like I enjoyed that.

Speaker 4:
[41:59] But yeah, he doesn't have time for you, Owen. He's Zach. He and Zach Brown are texting nonstop.

Speaker 5:
[42:03] You're not even Tyler Perry. He's he's booked and busy, as they say. Yeah. He ain't got time for little old me. And even though we're the the third place club. But yeah, that's OK.

Speaker 4:
[42:12] Yeah. So that was so that was a very fun start to the episode. And we're going to get into the Jimmy Fallon twist here. But but I'm building to it. We're building to it because that's the real the real climax of the episode. The start of the episode is all I mean, but as long as we're talking about Rick, we might as well talk about Rick is all of this fallout from Rick's idol play. Everybody thinks it was a bad move, right? Everyone's like, this was terrible. Like you put so much heat on yourself. Everybody except one person, which is Rick Devens, who is so happy. He had the best time. He was having so much fun. He knew it was not. It was a bad idea, but he loved the moment, which I just love. This is like so Rick, you know, just like having fun with the experience, even if there are downstream negative repercussions. I think that's what makes Rick such a fun character and also like a fun player. Where are you? Like in retrospect, was this a good move or a bad move from Rick with his fake idol?

Speaker 5:
[43:09] I think just to without overthinking it, you got to say it was a bad move, right? I think I'm in the camp where it did not necessarily change the outcome last week. I think the votes were not going to go to him and Aubrey, even though Coach and Chrissy said it was 50-50 and this would kind of pushed it over. I don't necessarily, you famously always say exit interviews are not canon. So I do think that you're really happy that I pulled that one. That's funny. So I do think it was bad, but I do still love, to me, Devon's is the almost the embodiment of the philosophy and survivor that tomorrow is always a new day. And like this is a problem for future me. I'll figure it out, but I got to get through tonight. So there is part of me that loved it. And like as a viewer, I loved it. It was such great TV and I can respect and appreciate when someone feels like their back is against the wall. They're probably very nervous about going out and like they're just saying, you know what, this could bite me in the ass, but I'm going to do it anyway and I'll figure it out. And I think that takes a lot of guts. Is it always necessarily the smartest move? No, but I I still appreciate that. And I love having players like that that are willing to kind of roll the dice and do something that on the surface seems risky or maybe a little foolhardy. But they trust in themselves enough to figure it out later. There is something enjoyable about that to me.

Speaker 4:
[44:34] So I'm going to take the opposite perspective because I think this was the right move from Rick, even if all these people the next day are saying, Oh my gosh, Rick, you blew up everything. Rick was a target. Rick was whether or not Rick was voted out, which he obviously like, I agree with you that he didn't that he still would have would not have gone home last week. But we know that he changed votes, right? You literally have a clip at the start of this episode of Stephanie saying to Jonathan and Christian like, we're still voting Rick, right? We're still voting Rick. And then by the end of that, the only person who votes Rick is Jonathan. So we know that he was getting votes. And if I'm in that situation where even if it's like a 60 40 or like an 80 20, like even 80 20, like I'm still doing the thing to save myself. And it was theatrical and it was big. And it certainly increased the focus on Rick, but he already was a target last week. You know, and I really think regardless of what happened with like that theatricality, I think the Middle Alliance was going to be the target this week anyway. And I honestly think Rick would have been in a worse spot. I think Rick is maybe going home. They can't stack votes on him now because he has this idol. So even if everybody is like talking about, oh my gosh, like that was so stupid. Like now all the focus is on you. Like he probably he very well was going to be a huge target anyway in this spot. And he really has a lot of insulation now. I think that like, you know, even last episode, they were talking about, you know, before the duo's twist was announced, they were like, should we vote out Rick? Should we vote out Aubrey? We weren't seeing Christian's name. Maybe that of course was because he ended up not being important to that episode. But I think that Rick would have been a really viable target. Yeah. Anyway, and certainly like with his like idol hound reputation and that this kind of gives him insulation. And I think that like certainly one vote, certainly two votes is hopefully enough to have a reset. Like you lose one of your closest allies. I mean, we saw with Tiffany, right? Like there were votes split on Tiffany two episodes ago. And now she's in a driver's seat. She's the one who's like kind of like pushing names and trying to thinking about building her resume. So, you know, your place in the game is not just determined by people's perception of you, but also by who they perceive your allies to be, like what kind of leverage they think you have. And so, I mean, Rick has really helped by Christian going out here. And he also, and I still think this fake idol benefits him, you know, just like Rizzo's real idol benefited him in 49. So I actually think this is still the right call from Rick, even in retrospect.

Speaker 5:
[46:52] Yeah, it was really beautifully said. And I was gonna say, yeah, you can definitely make the argument that that move bought him two rounds. And I'm really glad you brought up Tiffany, because I was so impressed and happy to see that she was right there next to Saree calling the shots this episode because she was really like, it seemed like her back was against the wall and could she easily could have emerged as someone who could be an easy pick off kind of early merge. People aren't super connected. So yeah, I'll definitely concede this one to you. Like I agree, like he things could turn around. He could be become way de-prioritized now, now that Christian's gone and it could buy him some chance to scurry around and figure something out. So yeah, very good point, Stephen.

Speaker 4:
[47:32] What do you think? Do you think anybody's mad, just mad that Rick got a big theatrical moment and they didn't?

Speaker 5:
[47:38] I mean, I'm sure there are people that are, I'm trying to think who's left in the game. That would be the most upset about that. You know, part of me wants to say coach probably would have been upset about that. And you know, even though him and Christian are aligned, like I wonder if there's a part of that's like, Christian's like, dang, I wish I had been the one who got to do that. But I don't think he would have been like actively upset. But that's funny. Like, yeah. I mean, I hear people talking about it all the time. Like a factor in these returning seasons is like screen time and edit and narrative. And you know, that becoming at least a tiny part of the calculus as to why people might be targeting certain folks. So yeah, if anything, it's just adding to the, the reputation he already had.

Speaker 4:
[48:18] We just got coach out. Finally, this like, you know, every time coach said a haiku, there were six camera guys ran over and put their cameras on him. And now we got freaking Rick stealing our thunder.

Speaker 5:
[48:28] Screen time's back on the menu, boys. And now Devon's is just eating it all up. We got to get him out. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[48:36] So I do wonder how much how much is. But it was interesting to see that, you know, Tiffany really in an interesting spot here was Tiffany. So Tiffany's pushing for flipping and it seemed. And again, like Emily really hurt by her last name. You know, like that's not that's not that's so frustrating.

Speaker 5:
[48:52] You know, the branding. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4:
[48:54] But your name night. My God, you're blessed, Owen.

Speaker 5:
[48:57] Yeah. The Honor and Integrity Alliance would love me.

Speaker 4:
[48:59] Yeah. Who wouldn't love a young night?

Speaker 5:
[49:02] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But no, it is it is hard for Emily to because, I mean, she doesn't do herself any favors to fight against that that wide open layup of a joke about her flip flopping. But no, I am thrilled for Tiff. I really like Tiffany. You know, it's no secret she was kind of the person on the cast that everyone is like, oh, OK, like and I'm sure she had a bit of an awareness of that. I mean, like placement wise, she's one of the lower placing people. And I'm sure some people thought that her and Q were kind of a package deal. But I I really enjoy Tiffany. First of all, I think she's hilarious and just the way she communicates and the way she's able to like inject personality into everything and she's just like fun to listen to and fun to watch. And yeah, seeing her and Suri being part of this and her finding her way to like persevere through what was seems like a pretty tough stretch there kind of in that late pre merge scenario losing D losing Camilla like I think she's recovered really, really nicely.

Speaker 4:
[50:03] But what do you feel like? I mean, what do you think her choice to push on flipping instead of Christian was a good move for her here?

Speaker 5:
[50:11] I don't think it was. I don't think it hurt her either way. I think it's worth bringing up. I think it's always worth considering the board and what's going on. I think especially talking to Suri, I don't know how aware she is of how tight her Suri and Ozzie are, but I think it's worth it. And I definitely can empathize with feeling like you need to start leaving your mark on the game. Otherwise, are you just going to get dragged to the end? And that was part of why I started spiraling on my season. Because there reaches a point where you can see the game slipping through your fingers, right? And you say, regardless of how long I'm here, I am cooked. Because even if I get to the end, what am I going to talk about? And so I do empathize with that. And I'm not saying she's spiraling yet by any stress of the imagination. She brought it up in a really nice way. But I can see in the back of her mind, her being like, come on, I got to start getting control here. So I thought it was a worthy topic to bring up. I do think they made the right call by not doing it. But I think it was worth discussion.

Speaker 4:
[51:14] Yeah. I mean, I do wonder if 11 is too soon. I mean, again, we don't really know a lot of the dynamics. We don't know what the relationship between Tiffany and Emily is. I just thought like, why go for someone who's a new era girl like you? Like, why not? Maybe there's more just like social connection to where you like maybe know a lot more people and people in common. But it was interesting to me was that Suri agreed, at least at that moment in time. Right. Suri said that she also thought Emily, why do you think that is what if they're both pushing for Ozzy? Do you think there's a world where Suri does not like the relationship that Emily has with Ozzy? Because even when Ozzy comes over, she's like, oh, you're day one. You know, like, maybe like.

Speaker 5:
[51:59] Yeah, I think that's got to be part of it, because from what we've seen and probably what Suri is aware of, Ozzy and Emily have a better relationship than Ozzy and Christian. So that is probably more threatening as a potential. Not that I don't think Suri thinks Ozzy is going to jump ship on her necessarily. But Emily would be a more attractive option for him. So I do see that. And quite honestly, I think part of it is just like the interpersonal thing. Like, I know it seems silly to say, but like that, that I feel like they included that rice scene for a reason. It may be just to make this seem like a more viable potential plan. But I always think back and I know you don't watch Big Brother and I'm not a huge watcher. But I remember this clip from Big Brother where they're singing someone happy birthday and Suri is lying on the couch and she hears everyone start singing happy birthday. And she's like, oh, my God. And then she gets up and starts going happy birthday. And you can tell, like, I just love that she's not like perfect all the time. We talk about how amazing and wonderful and charismatic she is. But at the end of the day, she's a human who gets annoyed by people. And maybe Tiff just caught her at a moment where she was feeling a little annoyed by Emily and the fact that her and Ozzy could potentially pose a threat if things were to go off the rails. But to your point about 11 being possibly too early for Tiff, I think I still don't think I think this was a pretty low risk place for Tiffany to start pushing her desires a little bit, because if it were to happen, it would have would not have been solely Tiffany that would have like people wouldn't necessarily have been like Tiffany is the one who did this. She masterminded this whole plan. It would have taken a lot of people to be involved with it. So I thought it was a pretty low risk place to pipe up a little bit.

Speaker 4:
[53:39] And that's kind of why I want one of the reasons I actually didn't love it as much. I mean, I agree with you that it makes a lot. I ultimately I agree with you that it like Tiffany needs to start kind of like being a more vocal voice so that when she does get to the end, people can say like, oh, yeah, she was like, even if they're not like, yeah, check mark next to you by, you know, for Emily, they can start to think of her as someone who was a really vocal part of the strategy. I certainly felt that way in Cambodia. It sounds like you also felt that way on Survivor 40, whatever you were on three. I know. I know. But it's too easy. Too easy. The the but but you know, you do not you can't be someone who's just seemed to be a passenger. And some of that is just kind of speaking up. So I do think it was the right choice for Tiffany to be a little more vocal here. The only thing is, you know, I think where what I see wrong with it is just this idea of I need a resume. I need to be responsible for the Emily Booth. You know, I think that's kind of where a lot of new era players go wrong, at least from, you know, from my old self watching from home, you know, whereas you see someone like Suri and her decision making is not like I need this checkmark by my name, but it's I need to move the game state towards a place that I am more in control of. I need to get rid of the people who are threatening my allies. And I need to keep my, you know, keep the people around who are closest to me. You know, when it's a marginal decision, I'm going to like get the rid of the one, like the person who's threatening my ally, who has the best relationship with my other ally, you know, you see her making like sort of like minutely tactical decisions in a way that like with every choice kind of just like moves her one step closer without giving this like one flashy kind of like Suri did this moment. And I think that's kind of the optimal way to play, at least from my perspective, the optimal way to play the game.

Speaker 5:
[55:13] No, a hundred percent. That's why she's one of the goats. She's thinking about every possible ramification of everything that she does. And I mean, early in the episode when she gave that confessional explaining the whole board and where she lies in it and how many options she has, like she just sees things so clearly and she hasn't lost the forest for the trees and she's so keenly aware of how everything connects. Like I didn't think I could be more impressed by her after watching everything that she's done, but like she's done it once again. It's just like she, like you were talking about last week, like it's a fab five now, like regardless of if she wins or not, she's up there in the pantheon for me of like best of all time.

Speaker 4:
[55:51] I think it's one of her best games ever. I mean, truly, because it's also like a really tough field. I think this is like really, I mean, I've loved every single game she played. I mean, Panama was just a master class, you know, everyone here. I mean, like obviously Micronesia, you know, I mean, I guess I didn't love here's Roosevelt, there was less less game there. But that like that, like this, this I think is like the fact that she is able to do as much as she is. And game changers, too, like again, like the only person to be eliminated against them. Right. Very frustrating. Very frustrating as a viewer. But this is definitely up there among her best games. And I think we're seeing a lot of her sort of like how just how masterful she is. And that's all. And it seems effortless. Although I think you're probably right that it is very effortful, not like very effortful, but like very self-aware, very conscious. All right. We finally got in there on. Let's talk about this Jimmy Fallon journey. So first of all, let's talk about Emily is mad at Christian for going because you don't go on journeys in the new era. Where are you on this? Do you go on journeys or do you not go on journeys?

Speaker 5:
[56:51] I think it's very situational. I mean, I for me, I went on one early in the game, I think, after the third immunity challenge. It ended up being a part of why I stuck around when we voted out James Jones with the steal a vote. I ended up letting Noelle take the advantage. I trusted her enough for her to steal my vote so we could pull the subterfuge on James. So it definitely bought me around. So I don't think it's like automatically bad to go on a journey necessarily, particularly if you feel you're in the minority, particularly you feel like you are a target. I don't think it was necessarily bad. Obviously there is a potential downside and this was even worse. Not only did he just lose his vote, he put one in the other column against him. So possibly the most penalizing journey of all time. But no, I don't think it was foolish of him to go just to just automatically on the surface. Do you?

Speaker 4:
[57:47] I don't know. I mean, I think like in this situation that they're in where you really need your vote, I mean, but you're also prohibiting stopping someone else from getting an advantage, you know, and especially if they want to push on Ozzy and if Ozzy is one of the other viable competitors, like you almost kind of have to put yourself out there. Christian doesn't know at this point that he's up for elimination. You know, I don't think he's necessarily aware of that.

Speaker 5:
[58:09] Although he's aware that, you know, Rick is catching some heat and he's the easy split vote. And so like, right.

Speaker 4:
[58:14] And he had that conversation with Jonathan where Jonathan was mad at him and he promised Jonathan his his his shot in the dark. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So I mean, he must know that there's a little bit of heat on him. And then, you know, you can see it going either way. There's heat on me. I need I need something to like, you know, push myself forward. And I don't want I don't want anybody else to get that. So I guess if I'm in Christian's spot here, I'm probably going. I mean, I certainly did that in Cambodia when I jumped off the platform to get my little advantage, which ended up also causing me the game. But not to discuss that the so Jimmy Fallon, where are you? Are you excited that Jimmy Fallon is is, you know, this advantage? You're you're Christian, you're learning that Jimmy Fallon, you see the note. It's from Jimmy Fallon. Are you geeking out? You're you're a big Tonight Show fan.

Speaker 5:
[58:56] You know, I I would not have much of a reaction. I still think the phrasing of hi, it's Jimmy Fallon. Hi, it's Billie Eilish is just so funny. Yeah, I lost it when he said Jeff told me about the challenge. Jeff called me up on what's happened.

Speaker 4:
[59:10] Yeah, no, he didn't. Yeah, you had two letters printed. Yeah, exactly. That like a PA or PA printed out on their like scroll printer. Are those hand lettered or do they have like a special like font?

Speaker 5:
[59:20] I think they must have a special font. I think those are all those are all printed back at HQ. But no, I you know, Jimmy Fallon, he's obviously a huge name, but I'd be like, hey, cool. Good for good for you. Like it is always there is something always cool about knowing a celebrity watches the show and that potentially they watched you on the show and that like, oh, the you know, Jenna Fisher from the office knows that I exist. Like there's something at least a little bit cool about that. But yeah, it's fine. I don't know. I would I would kind of be more focused on the task at hand and what the stakes are more so than who is, you know, sent me this letter. I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[59:55] This is a weirder one for me than Mr. Beast, because like Mr. Beast makes so much sense from a branding perspective. Like let's get in all these young viewers. Mr. Beast has so much name recognition among this audience. He's like, you know, probably the most famous celebrity that nobody over 40 knows about. And this one is sort of like who's tuning in because Jimmy Fallon has a twist. Like who's the viewer for that?

Speaker 5:
[60:20] I mean, I think it's the Facebook audience, all the people with the joint Facebook accounts from middle America.

Speaker 4:
[60:25] I know, because do they like Jimmy Fallon?

Speaker 5:
[60:29] I don't know where he is at in the cultural zeitgeist right now in terms of relevance. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Speaker 4:
[60:36] Nobody's mad at Jimmy Fallon though, right? No, I mean, people were mad at him for like ruffling Trump's hair or, you know, 2016. But now I don't think is anybody still mad at Jimmy Fallon?

Speaker 5:
[60:45] I don't think he's been a cancel target recently. I'm not sure, though. I don't know. To me, it's just he's perpetually a joke for the the guffawing and the way he smacks his desk and whatnot. That's just, you know, such low hanging fruit with him.

Speaker 4:
[60:57] Well, I've got to be honest, I did not mind it being I mean, like, I don't like I kind of like don't care either way. Like, I think like, OK, like if that's what it takes and that's what production is about it.

Speaker 5:
[61:05] Yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 4:
[61:06] Yeah, it's fine. OK, doesn't doesn't really take away from it at all.

Speaker 5:
[61:09] Yeah. What do you think about the advantage itself?

Speaker 4:
[61:11] The potential that you're the guest, you know, the guest host that you tell. So this is like so they get on this platform and they have this choice or that choice. But like, you know, if if he wins, he gets he gets to put a name, one in the urn. He gets to put a name that's already in the urn. If he loses, he has to put his own name in the urn or he has to vote for himself for tribal council. Where are you on this twist? What do you feel about it?

Speaker 5:
[61:38] I think the negative is significantly more powerfully bad than the positive is powerfully good. Like my gut reaction was, oh, this is just a shitty or extra vote because you have to play it now before you get to get on the same page with your alliance. Was my gut reaction? I don't know. What did you think?

Speaker 4:
[61:56] Yeah, I think it's so unbalanced. I mean, first of all, I actually kind of like the idea of it. I like the idea of like we're putting a vote in the urn. It's like interesting. It adds like a little bit of and there's something about it that's different from the extra vote because it's like it's happened. You have to play it, you know, where's an extra vote? You're going to hold on to it. Like, am I going to play it now? Am I not? This like pressurizes it both from a storytelling perspective, but also from like a voting perspective. I think it would be a lot more powerful, not at 11. Like 11, one extra vote in the urn is not going to be called create like a huge amount of sway. But I agree with you. So I thought it was cool. And I thought the idea of like being forced to vote against yourself was kind of interesting. But I think the balance, I agree with you, is completely on where putting a name in the urn and having to do that is like not that effectual at 11. Like maybe we'll have like you can go back and say, oh, by the way, like, you know, there's one on there's already one in there. Like we can. But like people can be like, OK, like, that's fine.

Speaker 5:
[62:50] I don't know. We'll just do the math and work around it with 12 people. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[62:54] It's also like a potential negative, you know, like where it's like, oh, whose name is it? Oh, you already voted for me. Like you're literally voting someone out while that person is still in the game. You know, like I heard you already voted for me. You know, like that built like so much animosity. That could put a target on you anyway, you know, like without. Um, you know, so if you go back and try to like whip the votes and like, you're like, oh, yeah, I've already got one on Joe. Like Joe's gonna be like, what the F like, what are you doing?

Speaker 5:
[63:19] Yeah. Or like you get back and you tell Devon's and Emily like, yeah, I put one on. I put one on Ozzie and they're like, no, we were gonna. Flip it to Rizzo, you know, like, right.

Speaker 4:
[63:31] And Ozzie is our ally now. And like, yeah, now he's gonna be furious when one comes out with his name on it.

Speaker 5:
[63:36] We wanted to tell you we had a big breakthrough. Like there's just so many ways it could go wrong. And then and then that's that's the good option, right?

Speaker 10:
[63:44] That's the positive thing.

Speaker 4:
[63:46] That's the thing you're competing for. Rachel got an immunity idol, right, which ended up being decisive in her winning the game.

Speaker 5:
[63:52] Yeah. And it's it's I mean, clocktower is always on my mind, but it's it's like an outsider ability. You know, it's like something good that hinders the good team. Right. It's like this isn't all that powerful. And the worst scenario is like really bad. Like this is why I don't know. And also the note of shame to having to not even to have the opportunity to lie and try to finagle something. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[64:13] Yes. The bad is so bad. You're not just losing your vote. You're also voting for yourself, which like forces a vote on you, which is basically the so like the because like for the person who if you do win, right, and you get that extra vote to the one in the earn, that person still gets to vote as far as I can tell. Right. So it's like it's not balanced even right there. Right. That person still gets a vote. You are losing your vote when you get it, when you lose this.

Speaker 5:
[64:38] You get a negative one. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[64:40] A negative. Right. And you can't play a shot in the dark and that person can play their shot in the dark. So like even just from like a pure like positive and negative, it's so unbalanced. And yes, you're right. Like having to read this in front of the whole group, it's like, you know, it forces this like enormous social pressure on you to I mean, like if the goal was to make the journey like so unpalatable that nobody ever wants to do it again in the future, like that might be the success. But after this, like that's crazy. And you have like potentially like one of the smartest, best puzzles in the whole history of the show who can't do it fast enough. I mean, like that's like, you can't make this puzzle fast enough. Now we haven't seen Christian be super fast on puzzle destruction. He and Jonathan had this problem last week in the last challenge. But you know, he's just like truly like one of the best puzzles in the show ever. And like he can't do it fast enough. You know, what are you? What are you saying?

Speaker 5:
[65:35] Yeah, what chance does everyone else have? Yeah, yeah. So it was it was tough. And yeah, just seeing it kind of coming to that realization over the course of it, seeing the rope unspool and just kind of seeing like, oh, shit, he has a lot of pieces left. This isn't good. Realizing how bad like or how weak the advantage would have been anyway. It was it was tough. But I do have to say, I thought the reaction, his narration of it all, I it brought a tear to my eye listening him talk to Michael, his son, about how you handle failure. It was very relatable to me because I got very hard on myself towards the end of my season. And that was kind of some work I ended up like trying to do on myself post survivor, just thinking about how hard I am. I thought the line he said about people don't realize how often the smartest people they know think that they're dumb or however rephrased it. I just, like that was just narratively beautiful from a human moment, beautiful. And I'm wrestling with that while I'm like so sad that my friend is like, you know, screwed now in the game. And so I really, even though I hated the outcome of the segment, I thought it was captivating television.

Speaker 4:
[66:45] Well, I totally agree with you. Such a beautiful moment from Kristian, so much wonderful vulnerability. And again, like this is what makes him such an exceptional television character, as well as an exceptional human. Just that kind of like being totally comfortable with his own feelings and willing, willing to both, you know, weep there and like feel all those things and then also share them in such like a wonderful, thoughtful, beautiful way. And to bring it home to his son and like wanting this to be like a moment for his son, I thought was like really, really powerful and great. I also want to say, I think the narration of the challenge itself was great. You know, Kudusso Christian and the producers, he was narrating it so vividly. It was such enthusiasm and excitement.

Speaker 5:
[67:24] He got some onomatopoeias in there. The kerplunk.

Speaker 4:
[67:26] I thought he was, I thought he for sure was going to do, pull it out simply because of like how excited he was. And then it's going and I'm putting the puzzle pieces together. And I like, like you, I'm like looking at these puzzle pieces and I'm looking at this thing. I'm like, there's no way he does this in time. But his narration was so upbeat and excited that I thought, like, wow, he's. You know, how could he possibly fame this level of enthusiasm when he's, you know, when it when, you know, for something so big? And then it does. And then it falls apart and like whoosh the PS, like also from a production perspective. So great. Like, yeah, I could see this twist. I mean, like maybe every season would be too much. But like, I love seeing it again from a visual standpoint.

Speaker 5:
[68:03] Such a gorgeous shot. Just like the puzzle getting yanked into the water into the ocean. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's it's so good. And I that's a really good point. He was he was really narrating so well. And I mean, that's why he's one of the best, like, like you said, characters, confessional lists of all time. Like, he really leaves it all out on the field. And I do think like giving a confessional is like an art form in a way because you're not like the storytelling of it. And knowing that you're bringing the audience into the moment and especially in this scenario where it's just you and you're narrating what's just happening to you. A lot of people, I think, could have much more boring retellings of what happened on that pontoon. But he really like, yeah, he had me invested even though I could see like, oh, like this isn't looking good. But yeah, in the back of your head, you're like, is he going to pull it out? Is he going to do it? And then, yeah, just whoosh off the barge into the ocean. Just like beautiful shot. He just like collapses onto the bar. Like just so like beautifully shot and just like captivating to watch. And yeah, it was it was great, although I was obviously sad about the outcome.

Speaker 4:
[69:09] By the way, I think that that observation about like bringing someone in, bringing the audience in is what makes someone a good confessionalist is something I don't know if I've ever thought about it or articulated it before. But I was actually just reading The Tribe and I Have Spoken by Rob Cesternino, which is available for preorder now. And I strongly recommend. And it's basically probably going to come is it has that point when he's talking about Boston Rob that one of the things that made Boston Rob such a great character was that he was able to kind of like bring the audience in as he was like doing all these devious maneuvers. And I hadn't ever thought about that from the both generally and also from the perspective of Boston Rob. So anyway, even I, who have been talking and thinking about this show for, you know, too many years, a lot of years, you know, I'm still finding new things thanks to The Tribe and I Have Spoken. Now anyway, so so Christian goes back and he, you know, Rick tells him that he is, you know, in the hot seat. And we've already talked about Emily going over to Ozzy. But I wanted to just kind of highlight it one last time because I'm sorry, going over to Surrey and selling out Ozzy because one of the narratives around Emily, a narrative that I myself have encouraged or pushed, is that she is a very self-interested player. And it was the thing I said to Christian before he left, like, like we love Emily, she's awesome. But she's a self-interested player. She's always going to look out for herself. Like she's very vocal about that. You know, when I was at Final 3 Con last year, and we had a conversation about Survivor. And if you ever went back, like, can you just like vote someone out without feeling any remorse or empathy about it? And she's like, yes, this is the game. Like, I believe that that is what you do. And, you know, Christian, for all his talk of being the call of him being a robot is like very emotional and very empathetic. But Emily is like a lot, a lot can be a lot more cold in that respect. And so here she really actually puts her game on the line for Christian in a way that I was really like I thought was really beautiful. You know, she goes over to three pushes Ozzy, who is has been her ally, really just to get Christian off the block. And it ends up almost getting her sent home.

Speaker 5:
[71:02] Yeah. Yeah. And that you said that so beautifully because I didn't really realize the gravity of what Emily was doing. Obviously, like in the in just watching on the surface, you're like, yeah, she's going to bat for her alliance, trying to move the target. But it's Emily Flippen, right? Like we've seen her pull all these maniacal shenanigans and clock tower. Like we've we know she's, you know, able to compartmentalize the game in that way. So, yeah, I think I think you're right. I think you said it perfectly. There is something really beautiful about that. Her her willingness to put her own game at risk for Christian. Was it the smartest move? Probably not. But like also again, props to Suri for, you know, making people so unaware of how close her and Ozzy are. So I don't want to beat her up too bad for that. But yeah, it did seem for a while. I part of me was convinced for a bit and props to the editors for making it interesting. I thought it might have shifted. I don't know. Were you ever questioning whether the target had moved?

Speaker 4:
[72:00] Oh yeah, I thought there was a good chance it was Emily. And then when Rick's name was coming up, I was like, wait a second, is it Rick? I really thought it was going to be Christian. And then I truly like going into travel council, I thought, oh, Emily's in trouble. Like it's, you know, especially.

Speaker 5:
[72:12] Oh, go ahead. No, no, just that.

Speaker 4:
[72:13] I was going to say the same thing. Go ahead.

Speaker 5:
[72:15] So just in Surrey, kind of vocalizing what you had said last week with Rob about the whole act of the wheel spinning. And basically it just felt like three pieces of the pie, like Rick, Christian or Emily, where's it going to land an hour from now, half an hour, fifteen minutes. Like it really does feel that way. And it's just like, it's almost like people just are spiraling and scurrying around and it's just, you know, where, where does it land? And I thought she vocalized how that feels and how that goes down pretty nicely.

Speaker 4:
[72:42] Before we stop, Owen, I want to talk about the fourth piece of the pie. The former middle member, Aubrey Bracco, who kind of has an interesting trajectory this week where she disavows. She is not. She does not vote with the middle. She disavows. So do you want to talk to me about what we, what we know her, what she did and like, you know, where you are?

Speaker 5:
[73:01] I'm so glad you brought her up because as as we were just talking, I was realizing we really haven't hardly talked about her at all. And I thought this it was interesting to see both her and Jonathan this week, too, because they ended up having that conversation. I took note also that Jonathan was the first person they cut to after we got back from tribal council, even though they interviewed him the day after. It was in the daylight and they showed us Jonathan's reaction first. And then they're having this conversation. They have this handshake about moving forward in the game together. It felt very intentional and it felt like, oh, is this something to watch here? Because yeah, Aubrey, I empathize with her because it's clear she does get lumped in with the nerds, whether that's because she wears glasses or she's shown to be an anxious person in previous seasons or whatever. And she was literally partnered with Devons last week. It's logical that people would categorize them together. And it's good to see someone kind of taking the bull by the horns narratively speaking. And I remember Christian talking about this preseason that, you know, survivor can become narrative warfare, right? And so to see Aubrey becoming aware of this and having Jonathan Kluwer in on this and then choosing to do something about it, I really respect it. And to me, it felt like Aubrey is really kind of like waking up. And I actually had a friend tell me, text me last week just saying just like Aubrey seems miserable this season. Like did she even want to go? Like where's her headspace at? And I don't have any insight to that. I don't know Aubrey really at all. But this week to me, I felt like there was in that confessional after that conversation, I felt a little more like punchiness to her. I don't know if you sense that, but to me it seemed like she's like, okay, it's showtime now. And I think we're going to see her kind of start trying to take control of her own destiny a bit more from here forward.

Speaker 4:
[74:53] Yeah, kind of the same thing from her and from Tiffany. Is there like, I mean, where are we in the game? Like such that the players are like, you know, is there like what's right now? Like making these players kind of wake up and say, I've got to seize my fate.

Speaker 5:
[75:05] Yeah, that's a good question. Because I wonder too, because like we were saying earlier, 11 seems a little early, but you know, 13 people are gone. Like they've played a lot of game, you know, so I wonder if that's almost accelerated in the schedule a little bit and that it feels deeper into the game than it actually is due to the size of the cast. But I'm not sure. Maybe it's that they're multi-time players and they're a bit more aware of how slippery the slope can get if you don't control your destiny sooner and how quickly it just becomes, you know, a runaway train. So I wonder if that's a piece of it as well. And obviously, I can't speak to that since I've only played once. But I don't know. Did you feel that at all on in Cambodia? I feel like that just like that, that like almost needing to to start being a little more proactive early.

Speaker 4:
[75:51] Oh, yeah. And that's why that's why I got voted out. The I do wonder, like the other thing that I was thinking about with respect to Aubrey here is, you know, she says it goes to Jonathan, like, let's form an alliance. Let's work together all very well and good. I remember having a conversation, you know, about halfway into Survivor Cambodia with Kelly Wentworth, where we were kind of both like we'd like to align with each other, but kind of too late. You know, we already have our allies. I kind of can't, I got the middle of the game say like you're my new ally. But that's sort of what Aubrey and Jonathan do here. And maybe it's a new era thing. You know, we were really at the dawn of voting blocks, but maybe it's just become entrenched in the Survivor's Eye guys. So where are you on this? Can you, you know, halfway into a season, be like, OK, now we're a duo?

Speaker 5:
[76:30] I think yes. I mean, that kind of happened with me and Cassidy on my season. We had been kind of at odds early in the merge, and then we ended up becoming close allies. So I think there is definitely a willingness to do that by people. And it could be a new era thing and an evolution of the game from the Cambodia voting bloc kind of meta shift. And I think there is something to it too, to where they've played a lot of game, but there's still a lot of game left. And so it feels like they're seasoned, but it's not too late to kind of still change their trajectory. You know, I think, you know, if this was an 18 person cast, and at this point you're down to like eight people or something, you've kind of gotten into bed with who you're with, you know, it's like you've kind of locked in to a certain degree. So I wonder if that is also a function of how many people still need to be eliminated and that there is a little bit more wiggle room and a lot of these bigger votes to where you can, you know, bring in two alliances, two small alliances and make a voting bloc big enough to do something at ten or nine or whatever. So I think it's a combination of factors.

Speaker 4:
[77:42] And I also want to give credit to Jonathan, by the way, who, you know, we're talking about what a great social game Aubrey is playing. Jonathan has played a very strategic game, really the whole season, I think, you know, and I do think, you know, Jonathan, sometimes we miss his savvy strategic game gameplay with his like massive muscularity. But, you know, he certainly this episode made a case that like, hey, I'm pushing all these votes, I'm going to like walk into Final Tribal with all of these like notches on my belt. He was the one pushing Christian first, right? Like he was the one who said, like, Christian betrayed me. You know, he was the one who kind of like put the screws to Christian, which sort of got him to give him his shot in the dark. And I thought giving the shot in the dark back to Christian on the way out was kind of a classy move, too. I got to say, you didn't like it.

Speaker 5:
[78:28] I thought it was kind of a dick move. I couldn't figure it out when it happened to me. If I'd just been voted out, I'd feel like I'd be catatonic and someone coming up to me and being like, here's your thing after just voting me out. That almost felt like salt in the wound. I don't think Jonathan meant it that way. I don't think he's that kind of person.

Speaker 4:
[78:43] But he's giving up a tool in the game for himself, right? This is something that he could use if he needed to. It's basically like a mini idol in his pocket. And he's saying like, hey, this is yours. This is your memorabilia. This is something you can keep with you for the rest of your life.

Speaker 5:
[78:53] I'm being too harsh, I guess.

Speaker 4:
[78:55] If anything, it's self-destructive on Jonathan's part. He loses because he didn't have a shot in the dark. We're going to be like, you dummy.

Speaker 5:
[79:00] He needed to play two in a row. He's like, no, I shouldn't have given it back to Christian. But no, you're right. No, it was a nice thing to do. But I think I would have reacted poorly to it. I guess I'm saying something more about myself than I am saying about Jonathan.

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Speaker 4:
[82:44] Well, it's time I think now for the most important part of the Survivor episode or the know it all's episode. Cue the music, Scott. First of all, Fishy for Scott, like that was like A plus. Cue it. I mean, he was freaking on it. That was unbelievable timing. No hesitation at all. He was ready to go. God, thank you. The finger was on the button. Holy cow, that was good. All right, Owen, do you want to walk through some fishy candidates for me?

Speaker 5:
[83:17] Yes, let's do it. I mean, we were just talking about Jonathan. You know, ostensibly, you could put him on the list just since he got what he wanted. He was able to, you know, do the whole shot in the dark thing with Christian, but he's not my leading candidate. I mean, I think we got to go back to Suri. I know she just got it last week and you have this very socialist way about the fishy sometimes where you like spreading the love, but you know, she just feels so at the nexus of everything that's happening. It feels like she's pulling off the hammock guy thing without coming across as the hammock guy. You know, and by that, I mean, you know, there's always those people that just lay in the hammock all day and they hope people come to them and they're like giving out the, you know, you've got your audience with the king or whatever. And Suri is doing that and getting people to come to her with information and plans, but they no one is viewing her as like, you know, in any negative sort of way. And again, just seeing the way the story is being told through her lens and the way she laid out how insulated she is and how many options she has and how she's basically good with everyone. I feel like she's one of my leading contenders. And then I don't even know if there's a third. Who are you thinking here?

Speaker 4:
[84:33] Well, is there anything to be said for Rizzo? Because it did look like Emily was going to go home and Rizzo makes the case like, hey, Christian is, you know, now is the time. There's a voter in there already. He can't play his his shot in the dark. Let's do Christian now. We saw very little from Rizzo this episode compared to most of us.

Speaker 5:
[84:49] We did. And you could throw him on the short list for that. It almost the storytelling made it seem like he almost kind of like pumped the brakes. And he's like, guys, we've got a juicy target right here who is so vulnerable. Got a vote already. Like, why wouldn't we do this? So he was kind of the voice of reason. And I'm just going to use this as my opportunity to publicly just like say, like, I was so wrong about Rizzo after seeing him in the season 49 trailer. I remember being one of the voices. And I was just like, who is this kid? He seems so annoying. Where's Jesse Lopez? Where's Ricard? Where's Omer? The Riz God? Who did this punk think he is? And I really loved watching him on 49. I had the chance to meet him so lovely in person. I shared this anecdote on chat BCC, which everyone should download, by the way, that when I met him in Nashville, I was I referenced, oh, my wife, Sammy, and he was like, paused our conversation and went and went over and introduced himself to Sammy. Like he is just a really thoughtful, smart, like just like fun person to talk to. So I was so wrong about him and I've loved watching him. And I just want to publicly say that because I was one of the people just like bitching about him being on the season, honestly. But he earned the spot for sure. And he's been great. He's playing great. I was a little interested that his edit was so small because it seems like we've gotten a lot of his story so far. He seems to be in a really powerful position with Ozzy and Suri. But this was really, you know, so much of this week was told through Suri's perspective. So that does make me wonder. And maybe it's like, could this be the time Suri actually pulls it off? But I think he is an honorable mention for the fishy for sure.

Speaker 4:
[86:27] Yeah, I think you're right, though. And I think it has to be Suri this week. I think, you know, not only do we see her just working her magic across the board, I mean, she really does directly control this vote. We see Christian go to her and pitch who we know, we the audience at home know is her number one ally, Ozzy. She immediately switches the vote onto Christian by bringing in Ozzy, telling him what's going on. She goes to Jonathan, says Christian's gunning for you. And that of course turns Jonathan on on on Christian. And then she's in the conversations about Emily because Emily goes to her and also, so everyone is coming to her and pitching their plans. And she is the one who is ultimately kind of steering the vote. And even if she had momentarily preferred Emily here, ultimately I think she is in control of this in terms of just getting that whole Emily Christian, you know, Christian group in the crosshairs and certainly, you know, putting it on Christian to begin with. So yeah, absolutely agree. Fishy for Saree, her third this season and extremely well.

Speaker 5:
[87:26] Well, I just don't get how she's so able to talk to everyone without like, you know, you, you see over the years, so many survivor players just get caught with their hand in the cookie jar when they're talking to too many people and people are like, wait, that rat is talking to them too. And she's just able to move so fluidly. It's just it's a master class. And I'm just so grateful to get to watch her again, because, yeah, she's she's one of the goats for sure.

Speaker 4:
[87:49] And she notices all people's micro expressions, too. You know, like, don't you don't don't don't you a little smile. Don't do that. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[87:56] So good. It's so good. She's incredible.

Speaker 4:
[87:59] Really is. Well, thank you so much, Owen. You are incredible. Anything you else you want to share before we wrap up?

Speaker 5:
[88:06] So, you know, just if you want to follow me on Instagram, be be my guest. You know, sometimes we're doing I'm posting there about any charity auctions or things we're doing. We raised all that money with the Minnesota auction. We have an item up. Check out our stories in the coming days. We are auctioning off. It's a clock tower game to benefit World Central Kitchen as part of the final three con auctions. So you could play Clock Tower with me, Stephen Dwight, Franny, Emily, probably Omer since he doesn't have a life and just plays Clock Tower.

Speaker 4:
[88:38] That used to be me, by the way. I used to be the most available for Clock Tower and now definitely Omer has supplanted me as the clock tower go.

Speaker 5:
[88:44] Once he writes his book, he'll be less available. But no, that's basically it. Just loving life and enjoying being a dad. This was, I think, maybe my favorite episode of the season, even though my winner pick and one of my favorite people on the season went home. I thought this was a really fun week. I was really grateful to be able to talk about it with you, Stephen, and I'm excited to see you tomorrow or Friday or Friday or tomorrow night.

Speaker 4:
[89:08] Hopefully. But before we wrap, I actually have something to plug. Scott, can you give me my slide? So Thrift Dogs is a shirt dogs. Yes. So we're limited edition. I don't want to get in the t-shirt business because it feels like that's a very, you know, but like my friend of mine, Brian, who is has been a wonderful contributor to RHAP over the years, had this idea like let's do a surf dog shirt for a limited release. It's only available for eight days from today until next Thursday. So you can go buy it now at surf dogs dot shop. I'm wearing it on on filler filler.

Speaker 5:
[89:45] Oh, I'm going to just take my sweater for our audio listeners. It's beautiful colors, pink and blue. We got a nice dog on there, obviously a reference to the early stages of escape. And it's it's really great. And now for the video, let's see, Stephen, it's so I've got the it's got the this is sort of classic surf design.

Speaker 4:
[90:04] It's got the sort of like surf dogs logo on the front and then the back. It's got the whole the whole buster catching a wave to it's beautiful.

Speaker 5:
[90:12] That's not that's a nice shirt. That's a nice shirt.

Speaker 4:
[90:14] If you prefer. There's also a version where the big buster thing is on is on the front. So surf dogs dot SHOP shop. It's only very limited availability only for for a week. So so go go now if you want it. And that's it. Once it's gone, it's gone.

Speaker 5:
[90:29] I'm going to have to cop me one. That's a nice that's a nice design. It's nice, right?

Speaker 4:
[90:32] I love it.

Speaker 5:
[90:32] It's like cool. Yeah, it's like it's very it looks good.

Speaker 4:
[90:35] It captures that kind of like that sort of like surf surf shirt feel. I really find it an awesome job.

Speaker 5:
[90:41] You know, people for I know JT and you described yourself as the the anxious New York Jew. But people forget you came up in Los Angeles. You know, a thing or two about the beach, you know, it's it's not just the big city all the time. You've got that beach background.

Speaker 4:
[90:55] So, yeah, my Lutheran mother was like, you were neither from New York nor are you really fully a Jew. So I'm anxious, maybe just sure.

Speaker 5:
[91:04] I'll give you that.

Speaker 8:
[91:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[91:06] Incredible.

Speaker 4:
[91:08] All right. Well, and this was such a fun, a fun episode. Thank you so much for being here. Rob, who is right now hobnobbing with the glitter rate in Toronto, will we'll see that we'll see that that video soon. And of course, he'll have his usual stuff, you know, that he does every week. You know, the exit interviews that you can have one of those with Christian. Circus Surf Dogs Touch Up. Bye.

Speaker 1:
[92:05] I'm always looking for those tips and tricks to help optimize my life. Ways to save money, travel better, and make life a little easier. That's why I love all the hacks. The podcast hosted by Chris Hutchins, that's all about practical tips you can actually use. Every episode breaks down strategies around personal finance, productivity, travel rewards, career growth, all the stuff I wish I learned earlier. What I like is that it's not hype or gimmicks, it's real advice you could apply right away. And honestly, if you like optimizing anything in your life, this show is for you. So when you support podcasts like All the Hacks, you're supporting creators who are putting in the work to bring you useful, actionable content week after week. So if you want smarter systems for everyday life, check out All the Hacks wherever you listen to podcasts or head to chrishutchins.com/promo to learn more.