transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Well, listen, it's gonna be an amazing test and an amazing thing to watch for all of us, to see how good Paul Sextas is compared to Tadej Pogacar. For the moment, there's been one confrontation, Stradiv Bianche. I don't know if you could say easy, but he dropped, Pogacar dropped Paul Sextas from the wheel. And then Sextas finished second. In the meantime, what happened with the condition? Was Pogacar already 100% in Stradiv Bianche? Was Paul Sextas 100%? Are they both better now? We don't know. To me, it seems like they're always on a really, really high level the whole season round. There's never any moment where they look a little off form. But, you know, tomorrow is the big, no, on Sunday, it's the big test, you know, to see where we can rate Paul Sextas compared to today.

Speaker 2:
[01:09] Hey, everybody. Welcome back to The Move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bruyneel. We are popping in midweek to break down Flesh Alone, which we just watched, which we just saw Paul Sextas win. 19 years old, youngest winner ever in the history of the race. We'll talk about what it means for the upcoming Liège best on Liège. We'll also check in with the Tour of the Alps. Three stages in, two more to go. Tom Pickock just won today's stage, looking good for Liège on Sunday. Johan, let's start with Flesh Alone since we just watched it, and it is fresh in our mind. Before we get into that, is there someone with you that wants to say hello to the listeners?

Speaker 1:
[01:45] Yeah, a general request also over audience. Mr. Bobby is back, back on the show.

Speaker 2:
[01:53] There he is.

Speaker 1:
[01:53] There he is. You know, he's keeping an eye on everything. And Bobby, did you enjoy Flesh Alone? What did you think? Not much.

Speaker 2:
[02:07] That sums it up. That's a pretty good summation of the race.

Speaker 1:
[02:12] Say something, Bobby. He wants to go back. He just woke him up from a nap.

Speaker 2:
[02:17] So, okay.

Speaker 1:
[02:19] Yeah. All right. Good. Yeah, Spencer, listen, I think, you know, the results, as we expected, although, you know, it still had to be done, right? I mean, we're all, you know, we'll say sus, obviously. But let's not forget, you know, as you said, the kid. And I think we should call him still a kid. He's 19 years old, had never raced or trained or seen the Mure of Hui. That's impressive before two days ago, when they did a recon, you know, he remembers it from sitting on the sofa and watching his idols race it. That's the, that's the impression he had for, you know, and it's, of course, it looks super, super hard on TV. It's a lot harder in real life. But yeah, I mean, listen, the legs do the talking, right? And on Mure of Hui, especially if it's a traditional, final, a traditional approach, as we have seen today, he's the best, and especially in this field, you know, Bogacar's not there, Jonas, who's, you know, an incredible climber's not there, Remco's not there. But there's others there, you know, Skjell Mose, for example, who was second in in Amstel, and one Amstel last year was there, you know, ex-winners were there, right? You know, like Hirschi and Alaphilippe, who, unfortunately, both of them abandoned, one of them to a crash. I don't know what was wrong with Alaphilippe, but listen, incredible performance, as I said, you know, as expected, but, you know, the pressure on this guy must be big because everybody expected him to do what he did today, and he did it. So, hands off to him. Congratulations, Paul Sexas.

Speaker 2:
[04:13] Yeah, and it seems straightforward. You're right. It looks straightforward. Wow, boring race. We should say we were talking about this in the pre-show. It's 200K long, four and a half hours. So, it's not the longest race ever, but it's four and a half hours of racing with 3000 meters of vertical gain. That's 10,000 feet, basically. And so, there is load going into your legs as this is happening. And you also have to manage the final climb right. You have to go in in good position. Kevin Vauqulan, a runner-up the past two years, I believe, just was in poor position, never recovered, was also on his teammate's bike, which cannot help those guys. I assume they're pretty dialed in on their bike fits. So, you have to go in correctly. Decathlon gets him there perfectly. Little like, they kind of botched it at the base, they have a teammate way off the front, pulling people off, but it's fine. Seixas, I guess, are we calling him Seixas or Seixas? Like his behavior should be practiced that way.

Speaker 1:
[05:09] He pronounces his name Paul Seixas. I've heard and people have been writing in, as we said, it's Portuguese roots. Apparently, in Portuguese, it would be Seixas, Seixas.

Speaker 2:
[05:25] Interesting. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[05:28] But, you know, Paul is French, so his dad is French. I think his grandparents were probably Portuguese. And so yeah, it's Paul Seixas.

Speaker 2:
[05:40] Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm saying my name incorrectly, if I think about it. But I should change to Spencer Martin. So he keeps open space in front of him early on the climb. You could imagine watching it and saying, wow, he's gone too early. But in reality of the climb like this, probably the mistake you would make is going in too far back. If you are the strongest rider and you have open space in front of you, as long as you're not just sprinting all out and then exploding, you're probably going to be okay. It kind of reminded me, Johan, of a really good boxer, just holding people off just enough and then knocking them out at the very end. He didn't look too bothered, which is impressive since we're talking about a 19-year-old who had not seen the climb before two days ago, just in general, his poise and ability to control these races, that's what impresses me more than the raw numbers, which we did some calculations in the show.

Speaker 1:
[06:38] You know, on the Mur de Huit, it's very simple, Spencer. You know, the moment you could see, I mean, there was an attack of Seixas, but everybody, including him, they were already at their limit. They were at their maximum. So usually it's the guy who has the strongest legs. There's no draft because it's so steep. And he just rode away from them because he was more powerful. He had better legs. He was stronger. There's not much tactics. You know, I mean, especially because I think he went with like, he really went with 300 meters to go. No, he accelerated a bit in the saddle, I think, with 500 meters to go. And then you could see already. So Schmidt actually, Schmidt was the fourth guy initially. And he got a bit of space, you know, he got dropped a bit. Finally, he finished the second, because he's the guy who had most left in the last 50 meters, I think. And then Ben Toulette and Benoît Cozeneffra were third and fourth. So Schmidt really, I mean, speaking about Mauro Schmidt, Spencer, I mean, great second. I mean, he already has, he's been in front the whole season already, since Down Under. He was up there, right? I think he was second in Down Under, right?

Speaker 2:
[07:59] Second in Down Under and then fourth at Cadet Levin's Great Ocean Road Race and then wins the Moosecock Classic, coming straight from Australia. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:08] And so he has, he rode an incredible smart race. You know, Flesh Wallone is one of those races, it's draining, there's climbs, it's not just the Mure of Huy, right? I mean, they do three times the Mure of Huy, but in between there's other climbs. I mean, otherwise you don't get to 3000 meters of elevation with these short climbs because the Mure of Huy is only a kilometer long, a kilometer 100 long. And it's constantly, you know, there's also narrow roads, the teams are lining up, they're bringing the leaders to the front. It's a battle, a constant battle, which costs a lot of energy for the teams, but also for the leaders. Mauro Schmidt, if you go back and watch the race, he has ridden the whole race in the last 10 guys of the Peloton and just made one move, you know, just made sure that on the second last climb, he was moved up and then made one move on the bottom of Mure de Huit. You have to be strong to do that, of course, right? But he did not fight for position at any point during the race and finish the second. So pretty smart race.

Speaker 2:
[09:19] Yeah, well, it's probably the one race you can be confident you're not going to get caught out in a split because when I mean, when's the last time we even saw this thing split up?

Speaker 1:
[09:27] I mean, especially if it's good weather. Yeah, you know, it was a bit windy. But, you know, if you're in good condition, you make sure I mean, I'm saying in the last he was often seen when the when the when the cameras were filming the peloton from behind, he was often seen there. But he's never been, you know, after some climbs when it lined up, he was never in the last five or ten guys, you know, that that tale of the peloton that, you know, everybody's on the limit and then they get dropped, he was not there. Obviously, you know, if you're strong enough, you kind of move up a little bit on those climbs and you're always in that pack, right? But strong performance of him too.

Speaker 2:
[10:05] Yeah. And we should also say Ben Toulette getting third, super impressive performance. I didn't see that coming. Toulette looked like he looked, I didn't think he was going to win, but I thought, man, is Paul Cichat going to drop this guy? He ended up getting a gap, but man, he was strong. Schmidt and Toulette were really good.

Speaker 1:
[10:23] He was the last guy to stay with Seixas, right? And then, I mean, for some reason, I think he must have been sick or out with an injury because I saw that he did not start in Amstel Gold Race. He was planned to do that race. And then in his race interview, post-race interview, he said that, you know, this morning, he almost didn't know if he was going to start. So maybe he was coming back from illness. And also his first ever podium in a World Tour race. So important, important day for him. You know, obviously a really good rider and a guy who takes his opportunities when the big leaders of Visma are not there.

Speaker 2:
[11:04] Yes. Yeah. I mean, and also Visma, like just, just they've really assembled a good team without spending an overwhelming amount of money. You know, they had no big stars here and they have a guy in third on the podium of a World Tour race of an Ardennes Classic. So kudos to Visma for, for putting this team together. We should say so, so Paul Siksas wins only by three seconds. Wow. He could have done better. No, I mean, that's, that's a big gap for flush below. And just for the people who want to know the numbers, the last K was about two minutes, 43 seconds. I estimate them at 573 Watts. So nine Watts per kilo. That's impressive, right? That looks good. It's short, but the crazy thing about it is it's not really a climb that's that great for him. Like this is not what he's best at and he still looked this in control. That's what moved me away.

Speaker 1:
[11:57] I think, I think Siksas is probably better on, you know, 10, 15, 20 minute efforts rather than three minute efforts. You know, and then also Spencer, you know, I just want to, I mean, before, I'm sure we're going to see, you know, on social media, people who are comparing the times. One second, Bobby is asking for attention. He's back. He's just going to stay here with me. So, he did 243, right, Siksas. People are always comparing times, right? And they can say, oh, you know, he's the best. You know, Bogacar last year won in 255. You know, bad weather, a different race.

Speaker 2:
[12:38] He's washed up.

Speaker 1:
[12:40] Steve Williams, where's that guy, by the way? Hasn't raced since May of last year. Knee injury, apparently. A very, very nagging knee injury. Three minutes, 11, even worse weather. Was terribly cold. I mean, you remember those guys shaking and falling off their bikes after the finish. I mean, Steve Williams won it with a rain jacket, by the way. And so, you know, he's now the third fastest rider. He is so faster than last year's time of Pugacar, faster than when Pugacar won in 2023. 243 is the third fastest time. There's only Valverde and Alaphilippe who have done it in 241. But again, you know, before people start to come to conclusions, you cannot compare times. It's fast, it's super fast. Also, if you look, Spencer, the third and the fourth, the second, the third and the fourth have also gone faster than Pugacar's best time. And so, and you know, and compared to last year's time of Pugacar, the top 12 has done faster than Pugacar.

Speaker 2:
[13:53] Pugacar's in trouble, man. He's even going to top 10 the Tour of France.

Speaker 1:
[13:59] You cannot compare times of a race. You know, weather conditions are different. And then especially also the way the race has developed. This was a fast race overall, I mean, 43.5 kilometers average, 3,000 meters of elevation. That's super fast, the whole race. And then also the approach, especially for a short effort like this, if it's a kilometer, the first 200 meters of that climb are super important. You know, because usually you get to, you get to Mure de Huit and there's already, it's lined up and people are looking. This time they came as a bunch, like basically being drawn into the beginning. And the first 200 meters were super fast. So, you know, you can't compare. But anyway, he's up there with the fastest times, which is impressive. But if you look, for example, look, you go back to 2004, which is 22 years ago. What Bobby, what?

Speaker 2:
[15:01] What?

Speaker 1:
[15:02] Sorry about that. 22 years ago, David Rebelin won, may his soul rest in peace, in 247. Only four seconds slower than today's winner. And this is 22 years ago. I mean, imagine the bikes, you know that. I mean, the whole Peloton was definitely not trained and optimized like today. And still, you know, you have...

Speaker 2:
[15:30] Tires were inflated too. Probably 18 millimeter wide tires.

Speaker 1:
[15:35] And the bikes, the wheels, you know, the wheels, nobody was riding on aero wheels back then. You know, usually back then it was okay, it's a hilly race, low profile wheels. That was the standard, you know, yeah, that's funny. Yesterday I was with somebody who does biomechanical studies for a world tour team. And he said that, you know, it's the bikes are so aero now and especially on the wheels that nobody is considering even for mountain stages to use the climbing. Climbing master history, they're done.

Speaker 2:
[16:12] Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[16:14] So much difference as soon as you go over 40 kilometers per hour, which the pros are almost always doing, you know, and even on the climbs, they're doing 30 kilometers per hour. If it's not super steep, an aero bike and aero wheels are always going to be faster.

Speaker 2:
[16:31] Yeah, I came away from this last winter. I was a little shocked, actually, at how fast this has happened. Essentially, the climbing bike has been killed in the last 12 months. It's all aero bikes. But I mean, yeah, we shouldn't like, comparing times has its limitations. Paul Sixas, great ride. He doesn't even, he ties Mike Woods for the KOM on the climb, on Strava. We can't just say like, oh, Mike Woods would have won today. Like, it's just a different, it's different races, different speeds, still impressive. But just to give people an example of how fast this is, that's 15 miles an hour. And if you've ever seen this climb, it is like unbelievably steep. It's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[17:11] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:12] And then speeds are crazy.

Speaker 1:
[17:14] The speeds are crazy.

Speaker 2:
[17:15] Paul Sixas in his last, going back to Strada Bianchi, he's done eight world tour races and he's won five, he has five world tour wins since Strada Bianchi. That is crazy.

Speaker 1:
[17:28] Oh yeah, that's three stages, three stages and the overall in the Basque country, right?

Speaker 2:
[17:32] Yeah. Plus today.

Speaker 1:
[17:33] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:33] So that's like more world tour wins, to put that into perspective, that's more than probably, like most, the vast majority of professionals will never win five world tour races in a year. I mean, that is, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1:
[17:49] The vast majority of pro riders will never win five world tour races in their whole career.

Speaker 2:
[17:54] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:55] I mean, it's only given to a few, you know?

Speaker 2:
[17:57] Yeah. You're like, let's go back to last year. Wins, 2025. Just, these are just wins. This isn't even a world tour wins. How many riders had more than, only 34 riders scored more than five professional wins last year. No, less than that. Less than that. Yeah. One second. It'd be, no. Oh wow. 23 riders scored more than five. Tom Pickock had five pro wins last year. And Paul Sixa says, five world tour wins. Send Strada Bianchi. It's unbelievable what he's doing. It's crazy. But what is, before we go to Tour of the Alps, what does this mean for, what do we make of this for Sunday? For the age, best on the age.

Speaker 1:
[18:47] I mean, obviously, you know, he's the second favorite. Pogacar remains the heavy favorite. He's the second one. I think, you know, it would be, it would be nice if, if he can stay with Pogacar on Laroudut. This is typically always where Pogacar makes the difference. And then, you know, would be curious to see what he does, if he collaborates or not. Because after Laroudut, it's Larochon-Faucon, which is a climb that, again, I think Larochon-Faucon suits Paul Sextas better than Laroudut. I personally think that Pogacar is a bit more powerful. So on Laroudut, I think he can, he can make the difference. But in this, I mean, let's wait also, I mean, it's a monument, Spencer. You know, it's, how long is it? It's 260?

Speaker 2:
[19:45] Yeah, it's really long. Hold on a second. Is it, it's got to be 260. Let me click on it. It's 260. Hold on. Oh my God. Where's the thing? 259. So yeah, almost exactly 260. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:05] It's different, you know? So that, that's obviously a bit in his disadvantage, but you know, with this condition, you know, he's going to be up there with the three favorites. I think if I'm, you know, if I, off the top of my mind, I think it's, you know, it's Pogacar, Seixas and Remco, the three top favorites. So it's going to be an interesting, that's obviously a lot better field than today. I mean, you know, if you look, Seixas is where we expected him to be still as a young guy, you need to, you know, be able to deal with the pressure, the expectations, winning. But with all due respect, Mauro Schmidt, Ben Tullet, Emmanuelle Cosmefra or not, of the level of Pogacar and Remco and Jonas, for example.

Speaker 2:
[20:56] Well, let's say, is Paul Seixas a better climber than Remco Avonepol right now? Like if Remco was here today at Flesh Malone, he wasn't, he's preparing for Sunday, how would he have done?

Speaker 1:
[21:07] Seixas would still have one.

Speaker 2:
[21:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:09] So Remco would probably have been top three, but I don't think he would have been a Paul Seixas, especially also because it's so steep. You know, if you look at the morphology of, do you say that morphology in English?

Speaker 2:
[21:27] That the builds, somebody probably does. I'm sure people say it. I don't really say it though.

Speaker 1:
[21:34] I do sometimes make up words, but I'm going to check if morphology is an English word. I'm pretty sure it is. The way he's built Paul Seixas is better for climbs than Remco.

Speaker 2:
[21:49] Yeah, it is. Remco could be Paul Seixas on Sunday. Paul could be him. I do think we should keep in mind.

Speaker 1:
[21:57] Remco already won twice.

Speaker 2:
[21:59] Yeah, that's a good point. I do think, though, we tend to... People suffer from object permanence. When Pogacar is not here, you're like, Oh man, these guys are going to beat Pogacar. And then he shows up and we remember how good he is. So this is impressive. I think Remco and Paul Seixas are going to do great on Sunday. I think we tend to forget how good Tadej Pogacar is.

Speaker 1:
[22:24] It's going to be an amazing test and an amazing thing to watch for all of us. To see how good Paul Seixas is compared to Tadej Pogacar. For the moment, there's been one confrontation, in Strada Bianche. I don't know if you could say easy, but Pogacar dropped Paul Seixas from the wheel. And then Seixas finished second. In the meantime, what happened with the condition? Was Pogacar already 100% in Strada Bianche? Was Paul Seixas 100%? Are they both better now? We don't know. To me, it seems like they're always on a really, really high level the whole season round. There's not, there's never any moment where they look a little off form. But, you know, tomorrow is the big, no, on Sunday, it's the big, it's the big test, you know, to see where we can rate Paul Seixas compared to today.

Speaker 2:
[23:29] Before we take an ad break, this is just, this is nuts. So 2025, World Tour wins. Like, if the season was done now, then Paul Seixas' hall of World Tour wins would have him eighth overall. That's crazy in the Peloton. And right now, he's second overall in 2026 in terms of World Tour wins. Do you know who is first? Another guy we forget about. We forget how good he is.

Speaker 1:
[24:01] Jonas.

Speaker 2:
[24:02] Jonas, six World Tour wins so far. The quiet assassin, man.

Speaker 1:
[24:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[24:07] Forget about that guy.

Speaker 1:
[24:08] Yeah, I mean, Marinist and Basque Country, right? No, Catalonia, sorry.

Speaker 2:
[24:13] Catalonia, yeah. Yeah, he's won two World Tour stage races with a bunch of stage wins along the way. Guy's pretty good at stage racing. But let's take a quick break, and then we'll talk about Tour of the Alps and Tom Pitcock and how he might do at Sunday at the Edge when we come back. Hey, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Salie. I spend a lot of time traveling in different countries for my work, breaking down professional cycling, and I'm using a ton of mobile data to pull up the live tracker, watch the race, check the stage profile, and probably even do this podcast. I've done it on mobile data before. And if I have not planned ahead, my phone bill can be really scary when I get home. But Salie fixes all of that. It's an eSIM app from the same people who built NordVPN. That gives you affordable data plans in over 190 countries. No swapping SIM cards, no waiting at the airport, no navigating foreign phone stores. You just download the app, grab a plan before you even leave on your trip, and you're connected the second you land. Global plans, regional plans. If you're doing a multi-country trip, one plan covers you the entire time. So if you've got a trip coming up and you wanna save some money on a mobile plan, you're in luck because you get 15% off on Salie data plans as a listener of The Move. Just use code THEMOVE at checkout. When you download the Salie app or go to salie.com/themove, it's salie.com/themove, salie.com/themove for 15% off today. All right, Johan, we're back. So we've had three stages of the Tour of the Alps. If you're wondering what is Tour of the Alps, it used to be called Giro del Trentino. Is that correct? Yeah. And it is the probably part of the name changes. It doesn't just take place in Trentino. It's now kind of a pan-Trollian race where it goes from T-Roll in Austria to South T-Roll in Italy. The language gets quite political up there. So I'm sure part of the rebrand was, we're just going to call it Tour of the Alps instead of deciding what language. German, Italian, Latin, we can't decide. So we'll go English. I find it to be a very, it's a very good race. Five stages, very beautiful terrain. Just nice to have the TV on. But through three stages-

Speaker 1:
[26:22] Also, you know, great preparation for the guys who do the Giro.

Speaker 2:
[26:26] Yes, great, great Giro preparation. Same region and good climbing. And it's kind of, they engineer it. They start in like a low altitude valleys. So around Innsbruck and Balzano, which, you know, Balzano has palm trees, but you're in the mountains, but you can do a lot of longish climbing without getting up to snowy Alpine peaks. So it is a great place to be to be riding this time of year. It's also finishes on Saturday or on Friday. So technically you can do the stage race and then go to Liege-Bastogne-Liege and you've got nice five days of racing in, you get one day off, then you race. We had kind of a sprintish stage on Monday, won by a Continental, Italian rider on a Continental team, Thomas O.

Speaker 1:
[27:12] Meaning division three.

Speaker 2:
[27:13] Division three, yeah. Like you're one step, I'm very familiar with that level of riding. You are one step above amateur racing. Thomas O'Doddy and then stage two was a GC day. Giulio Pellizzari won a great showing from Red Bull. Also good showing from Ineos, Tymon Arsman, Igor Bernal looking really good. And then today was a reduced sprint stage, won by Tom Pitcock, almost won by Thomas O'Doddy, almost getting the second win of this race. Pitcock looked good. I mean, none of these races are easy. Like today was 3,700 meters of vertical gain over 174 kilometers. These are, even these sprint stages are really hard. The GC is Pelazari's in first. Tymon Arsman from INEOS in second, four seconds back. This is all time bonus splits by the way. Egan Bernal third, six seconds back. Alexander Vlasov fifth, by the way, 10 seconds back. Looking like Alexander Vlasov of old at this race. But what have been your impressions so far of this race, Johan?

Speaker 1:
[28:13] Yeah, first stage, I mean, first of all, talking about Pitcock, you know, he won today, which, which I think is incredibly, it's another proof of his incredible natural talent. Let's not forget, Pitcock had this crash with pretty serious consequences in Catalonia in the downhill. You know, his I think his knee was his knee or his thigh. There was something really, really bad. He had to be off the bike, was not feeling good. I mean, he barely made it to the start of this race. Obviously, after that crash, he hasn't been training a lot. So gets comes back to this race to get his form back in a bit to try to make it to Les Bastons Lièches, which was one of his objectives. Felt terrible the first day. Yesterday was not there. I lost a lot of time. And then today, wins. There are not many riders in the peloton who can win races when they're not on the top of their form. And Pitcock is one of them. He can win. He has that natural talent and this way to know how to win. I mean, you saw the way he raced in the final. You know, I think it's another proof of his pure class. Now, if you ask me, is he going to be ready for Léa Bastogne-Liège, I'm going to say no.

Speaker 2:
[29:46] Yeah, you can't fake that.

Speaker 1:
[29:48] He's not going to be in the final of Léa Bastogne-Liège, in my opinion. But he's using this race to get back. And yeah, what a nice win today. And then to come back on the GC, I think Pellizzari is the big favorite. Has a strong team. I think, you know, it was clear already yesterday that he was the designated leader. We had another young rider to follow, Lorenzo Finn, who's still on the Red Bull rookies team, doing a few races with the pros, was one of the best three riders in the stage yesterday. He went away, then did the work for Pellizzari, and Pellizzari won in the sprint. And I don't know, there was a big crash today, I assume. And I saw that he DNF did not finish. So he must have been involved in that crash. But it's one of those riders. We have talked about him in our Up and Comerce show, I think this year or last year, I don't remember.

Speaker 2:
[30:45] I think it was last year.

Speaker 1:
[30:47] He was two consecutive years world champion. He won the world championships junior in his second year junior. And then last year being the first year 123, he won the world championship.

Speaker 2:
[31:01] I believe the youngest rider in that race.

Speaker 1:
[31:03] The youngest rider in the race and is in Kigali. So he's now, I think he's 19 also. So he's still part of the development team of Red Bull, but with this new rules that they can switch over riders to the pro races as long as not world to races. I think it's great. Big future for that guy, man. I just wish, he has one problem. He needs to work on his aerodynamics is, it's like, it's like, what's his name? Michael Sturr.

Speaker 2:
[31:41] I think it's hardly because these guys are so good. They don't, there's like no pressure for them to work on. I have a funny story about Lorenzo Finn. I maybe I've told this before. I was talking to it. You're very good.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] You met him, right?

Speaker 2:
[31:54] Yeah, because I was like in a Benji, your best friend. And this kid comes up. I thought he was a fan of, I thought he was just a fan of Benji. Like he looks so young. And it was Lorenzo Finn, U-23 World Champion. I mean, in the final group on on stage two, you had three Red Bulls, Lorenzo Finn, Alexander Vlasov, Pelazari, and then two. So that's impressive for MedBull. They were racing really well. And then two Ineos riders, Taimun Arnstman, Egan Bernal. And then did you notice this guy, Matteo Garfuri on Penny Postonelli?

Speaker 1:
[32:26] This guy is on Picnic.

Speaker 2:
[32:29] He was, he did the...

Speaker 1:
[32:32] Was he not like the, I mean, he was, he was a stagiaire, I think, on Polti. And then, but I think he's either famous either from Zwift or from the Grand Fondos in Italy. One of the two, I don't remember now.

Speaker 2:
[32:44] He did the Zwift Academy. He qualified for the final three and he went to the Alpecin team camp and didn't make the cut. And then one of the other riders to do that was, he's on Wiesma now. He just came up from like the amateur level last year. His name is, what is his name? Is Anton Schiffer was another one of those guys who didn't make the cut. But man, that was, that's an impressive ride from.

Speaker 1:
[33:12] Yeah, he was the whole day in the breakaway, then didn't get dropped from Pellizzari at first. And then stayed with them and finished, what, third, fourth?

Speaker 2:
[33:21] Third on the stage. Yeah, and now in GC he's top three.

Speaker 1:
[33:27] We have 19 year old or 20 year old, whatever, Lorenzo Finn. And then a few seconds behind on a really hard stage, like a really hard stage, 43 year old Domenico Pozzovivo.

Speaker 2:
[33:41] I forgot he was racing.

Speaker 1:
[33:43] Making his comeback after a year out of, so he, I think he was on a small Italian team.

Speaker 2:
[33:51] He was on VF, yeah, Bardiani.

Speaker 1:
[33:53] But now he's on another, he's on solution tech, something.

Speaker 2:
[33:57] Even smaller team.

Speaker 1:
[33:59] Yeah, but obviously the statistics already, I mean, these people have, this is not a publicity stunt. The guy is on a super high level because he got all the KOMs on the Strava segments in the neighborhood. And he was, he just kept training like crazy. Man, I remember, I remember seeing Domenico Pozzovivo in, I don't remember which year, maybe 2008, seeing him in the Giro d'Italia, or maybe, maybe before, I don't remember. He was on a small team. And the guy looked like a, you know, a school kid, like a guy who went to primary school. He looked so young. And now he looks a bit older, but he still doesn't look old to me. He still looks, yes, he still looks really, really young. He's very small, very tiny. But, man, that's impressive. He's, I think he's on the same level as he's always been in his last few years. A strange comeback at 43, but...

Speaker 2:
[35:10] I incorrectly thought he retired because he took a year off from the injury.

Speaker 1:
[35:14] He didn't retire because he didn't have a team.

Speaker 2:
[35:17] He didn't have a team last year. He wasn't on a pro team.

Speaker 1:
[35:20] Yeah. I think the year before, they also, and there's a few times that they signed him like in February or March. I think he wrote for Israel also, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:29] It was like multiple years in a row. So 2022, he's a late signee to Intermarché. 2023, he's a late signee to Israel. And then last year, he's a late signee to VF, Bardiani.

Speaker 1:
[35:43] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:44] Yeah. Oh no, sorry. Two years ago, doesn't have a team last year. And then this year he's a late signee to Solution Tech, Nippo, Raleigh.

Speaker 1:
[35:52] Raleigh?

Speaker 2:
[35:53] Like that is pretty impressive. Here's a crazy stat. So the writer he finishes behind, Jacob Omrazel, Omrazel?

Speaker 1:
[36:04] Winner of the Giro, winner of the Giro, no? The baby Giro last year.

Speaker 2:
[36:08] Baby Giro, yeah. So there's more time has passed since Puzzle Vivo was born and he was born, then sorry, the age gap between them is larger than-

Speaker 1:
[36:22] 23 years. 23 years. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[36:25] Then Jacob is only 20 years old. If Puzzle Vivo could have had him at 20, he could be his son.

Speaker 1:
[36:32] And also Spencer, I mean, he finished just behind him, but actually on the climb, he dropped, Puzzle Vivo dropped Omrazel. Omrazel is seen as an incredible big talent.

Speaker 2:
[36:42] Yeah, like huge talent, huge talent. And I mean, this groupie he's in is wild. Michael Storer is in there, Chris Harper is in there. Those are really good writers. Chris Harper won the Queen stage of the Giro last year. So yeah, hats off to Domenico Puzzle Vivo. Puzzle Vivo also, Egan Bernal, don't look now, but that guy's looking good up there in the GC every day.

Speaker 1:
[37:03] On a good level, even today, Cup third in the sprint team.

Speaker 2:
[37:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:07] You know, it's always a sign that you're good if, you know, like if without it being a stage for you, because obviously, Pitcock, there was no way he's going to lose this. The way he was moving at the end and the way his team was fighting, but you know, for Bernal to be third in a sprint, it means that he's in good shape. He brought Arnzman back yesterday also to the...

Speaker 2:
[37:31] Yeah. Yeah, it was weird because he's kind of working for Arnzman, but he looks at times to be stronger than Arnzman. So I had the same thought, Johan. We've been hanging out too much, I said this morning. I said, hey, if you can do well on a stage, it's not for you. That means you're in pretty good shape because to see him up there in a sprint, but also Sean Quinn, American who's been off the bike with a knee injury, I believe, sixth place. So way to go, Sean Quinn. Looking good. It's been, he's on EF. I believe in the last year of his contract, potentially being targeted by moderate adventures, post-cycling though, as far as what I've been reading. But the fact that it actually shows you, there's quite a bit of talent out there. I mean, none of these guys can be that expensive, like Matteo Garfoli, Domenico Pozzovivo. They can't be costing these teams a lot of money and they're getting good results at big races.

Speaker 1:
[38:25] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[38:26] You know who's not doing a...

Speaker 1:
[38:29] Pozzovivo's price is not gonna go up anymore, Spencer.

Speaker 2:
[38:34] Well, so we talked a lot about over the off season. We could not believe the price for some of these riders. One of them in particular, Derek G. West, he finished half a minute behind Pozzovivo, more than half a minute behind him. Did he have an injury? What is going on?

Speaker 1:
[38:54] He's not been racing that much, although I do seem to remember him in Catalonia.

Speaker 2:
[38:59] Yeah, he didn't start like the last weekend.

Speaker 1:
[39:03] Okay. So, you know, something must have been wrong. I mean, I'm assuming he goes to the Giro, no?

Speaker 2:
[39:12] Giro d'Italia, yes.

Speaker 1:
[39:13] To be the leader of Little Trek. It's not great if you're not in good shape in the Tour of the Alps. There's still time, you know. Obviously, nobody is expecting Derek G to be, you know, podium in the Giro. Maybe he himself does, but, you know, let's not forget, you know, this guy didn't have a quiet and peaceful season. And then, you know, as soon as something goes wrong, he must have had an injury or illness in Catalonia, because if he didn't start the last two days, something was wrong. Maybe he was in a crash also, I don't remember. So maybe he's using Tour of the Alps to get back into shape for the Giro. But obviously, he's not in the mix, and he's not going to be in the mix on the last day either. The last day is super hard. It's the final. It's the decisive stage. We're going to see the same guys, you know, it's going to be Arndtman, Pelizari, Bernal, and whoever, a guy from Tudor. What's this French guy's name from Tudor? Alex Rondel? Pretty good writer.

Speaker 2:
[40:26] Did we say Arndtman? I think Arndtman is going to be up there. He's like the best we've seen Arndtman in a long time.

Speaker 1:
[40:31] Yeah, I said Pelizari, Arndtman, Bernal.

Speaker 2:
[40:35] Yeah, Rondel from Tudor. He is very good, actually. Eighth at Paris Nice.

Speaker 1:
[40:42] Young writer.

Speaker 2:
[40:43] 22 years old. Yeah, really good writer. No wins in his pro career. Interesting. These French teams, they can't be losing these guys. Yeah, you got to lock that down before it goes to Tudor. He wasn't even on a French pro team. Interesting.

Speaker 1:
[40:59] Which team were you before Tudor?

Speaker 2:
[41:01] It's like a club team. VC Paz Ludec. Lundec.

Speaker 1:
[41:08] So that's strange. It doesn't get picked up by either Decathlon or Groupama.

Speaker 2:
[41:14] Yeah, it's kind of weird.

Speaker 1:
[41:16] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[41:17] But yeah, super tough stage on Friday. Final day, final day. It's if you've ever been to Balzano, they have these huge climbs that don't go up that high in altitude, which means they won't be canceled due to weather. And like the second to last climb, it's a loop they do. So they do it two times. They don't do the full climb both times. And then they just send down to Balzano to finish. But the first time up the climb, it's 12 and a half K long at 7% average. That's a serious climb. And then they do the top part of that climb again. Then they descend down to the finish. So it will be one of those riders that wins the overall probably. No TT either. So all climbing. Who do you think is going to win if you had to pick one?

Speaker 1:
[41:59] Peligari.

Speaker 2:
[42:00] Yes. And is he the main challenger for Jonas Vendegaard at the Giro?

Speaker 1:
[42:09] I don't know. I don't think Peligari is at that level. I think Jonas is the big favorite and he's going to win. I mean, without any unforeseen circumstances, Jonas at 80-85% of his form wins the Giro.

Speaker 2:
[42:25] So if Jonas wins, I agree with you. If Jonas wins, who do you think is second at the Giro right now?

Speaker 1:
[42:33] Well, Peligari has, you know, he's obviously... Is he going together with Hindley to the Giro? I think so. I believe Hindley.

Speaker 2:
[42:40] It's him and Hindley.

Speaker 1:
[42:41] Yeah, yeah. I mean, Hindley, you can never count him out, but, you know, it's been a while since he's been up there in the top. Today, he was, I think he was the protected rider for Red Bull and he's not in the top 10, I see. So that's not, that's not good. But yeah, stage racing is different. I think Peligari and then, yeah, who else is going? I haven't, I haven't checked it. Who else is going?

Speaker 2:
[43:09] It's supposed to be like Joel Almeyda, but I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[43:12] We don't know what's wrong with Joel Almeyda. Something is off. But still, I don't think Almeyda is a match for Jonas. You know, if you think, I mean, last year in the Vuelta, you know, he was there, but you know, Jonas won, I think dominantly. And I don't think Jonas was at his top in the Vuelta. He was definitely not the same as in the tour, although he may say that he's always better the second time he does a ground tour in a season, but he was not at the same level as the Tour de France, I think.

Speaker 2:
[43:47] Do you remember who was fourth at the Vuelta? Jay Hindley.

Speaker 1:
[43:52] Jay Hindley, okay.

Speaker 2:
[43:53] He can show up.

Speaker 1:
[43:54] Yeah, forgot about that. Yeah, okay. Good, good, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:57] And he beat Pellizzari. Actually, do you know who I would like to see at the Giro? Who we won't see is Mathieu Rigatello. I wish he was going. I think that would be a great race for him, especially the form he's in right now.

Speaker 1:
[44:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[44:09] Come on, Decathlon, send him. Anything else, Johan? We'll be back on Friday to preview Liège, and then we'll be back on Sunday to talk about Liège.

Speaker 1:
[44:18] Yeah. No, I think we've covered most of it, Spencer.

Speaker 2:
[44:22] Yeah. So what's fun is when we come back Friday, we'll know how this plays out. We'll be able to talk about the end of the Tour of the Alps and who wins it. So we'll see you soon and thanks for joining us, Johan. And then we got some exciting racing coming up with Liège on Sunday as well.

Speaker 1:
[44:37] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[44:38] Thanks, Spencer.

Speaker 1:
[44:39] Speak soon.

Speaker 2:
[44:39] All right. Bye.