transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. It's the MaxFunDrive, folks. You're going to hear more about the MaxFunDrive later on in the program. Right now, we just want you to know, this is when we celebrate the members of Maximum Fun. This show only exists because people like you support it. The support can start at five bucks a month. You can find out more and join at maximumfun.org/join. That's maximumfun.org/join. All right, this week, Criminal In Tent. Kristen brings the case against her husband, Blair. They love to go camping with their family. And Blair loves to camp with his special canvas tent. Kristen says that Blair's tent is lovely, but way too cumbersome. She wants to add a lightweight nylon tent to the rotation. But Blair says no to nylon. He says it's his tent or take a hike. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Speaker 2:
[01:13] There comes a time when children stand in judgment and their parents, mother as well as father, stand in the dock. Bail if Jesse Thorn, please swear the litigants in.

Speaker 1:
[01:24] Blair, Kristen, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever?

Speaker 3:
[01:32] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[01:33] Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the only camping he participates in is what's called house camping?

Speaker 3:
[01:42] Oh, yes.

Speaker 1:
[01:42] I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Speaker 2:
[01:46] Thank you, Jesse. It's actually house glamping. I set up a luxury yurt in the living room.

Speaker 1:
[01:53] Got it.

Speaker 2:
[01:54] It's sort of a boutique blanket fort, if you will. Meanwhile, Blair and Kristen, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? Blair, why don't you guess first? I wrote down Blair. I'm writing it down right now.

Speaker 4:
[02:16] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[02:16] Blair's guess.

Speaker 4:
[02:18] I'm going to go with Garrison Keillor.

Speaker 2:
[02:23] I'm crossing out Blair's guess now, sorry.

Speaker 4:
[02:26] I'm not a Keillor fan, but it sounded Keillor-esque to me.

Speaker 2:
[02:29] Garrison Keillor was a huge influence to me.

Speaker 1:
[02:32] John, it looks like Blair's guess has been canceled. Oh no.

Speaker 2:
[02:38] No comment? Blair, go ahead and guess your Garrison Keillor guess.

Speaker 4:
[02:42] Yeah, from one of his shows. Boston Prairie Home Companions.

Speaker 1:
[02:50] It's probably from The Writer's Almanac.

Speaker 2:
[02:52] Yeah, it might be from The Writer's Almanac.

Speaker 3:
[02:54] I don't think you know that. I think he was canceled.

Speaker 4:
[02:56] I think he was.

Speaker 3:
[02:57] So why are you saying him?

Speaker 4:
[02:58] I don't remember. I'm nervous. I'm nervous.

Speaker 2:
[03:03] It's okay to mention Garrison Keillor. That's fine. Your memory is not canceled.

Speaker 4:
[03:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:09] But I'm definitely writing down exactly what you said. Anyone who's watching the YouTube can see exactly what I've done. Kristen, let's move on to you. What canceled public radio personality are you going to evoke?

Speaker 3:
[03:22] I choose to name none of them, but my cultural reference, I believe that there were, you mentioned a doc. The only thing I can think of, I believe there maybe were some doc shenanigans in the 1961 Parent Trap movie.

Speaker 2:
[03:39] Wow, that was a long doc for us to walk out onto and off of.

Speaker 1:
[03:46] Yeah. We really took a long walk on that short doc.

Speaker 2:
[03:50] Exactly. Thank you for rephrasing appropriately, Jesse Thorn. A doc shenanigan in the Parent Trap.

Speaker 3:
[04:00] Look, I'm bad at cultural references.

Speaker 4:
[04:01] Yeah, I think the doc is a court reference. Can I change my guess?

Speaker 2:
[04:03] The doc was a court reference. There comes a time when children stand in judgment and their parents, mother as well as father, must stand in the doc.

Speaker 4:
[04:11] East of Eden.

Speaker 2:
[04:12] Blair?

Speaker 4:
[04:13] Sorry.

Speaker 2:
[04:14] I will allow you to make that extra guess. I'll write it down and I'll write the Parent Trap. And I'm also going to give you one more hint. This is one that is guessable. Not guessable, but gettable, let's say. I've had some very obscure ones lately. This one is in the Wheelhouse. And it's from, I'll give you a double hint. It's from a novel. And here's one more quote from it. It was all a lie. The world was full of monsters and they were all allowed to bite the innocent and the unwary. Let's change your mind about anything there, Kristen, or is still Parent Trap?

Speaker 3:
[04:52] I've got nothing else.

Speaker 2:
[04:53] Is it Hayley Mills? Hayley Mills is the Parent Trap?

Speaker 4:
[04:55] Could be the novel adaptation of the film that they released.

Speaker 1:
[04:58] You could change it to the other Parent Trap if you want.

Speaker 3:
[05:01] I'm really more of a Hayley Mills-er.

Speaker 2:
[05:03] Did you see, speaking of Hayley Mills, did you see Hayley Mills in the movie Trap by M. Night Shyamalan?

Speaker 3:
[05:09] Oh, no.

Speaker 4:
[05:10] No. We haven't seen a Shyamalan for a while.

Speaker 2:
[05:14] I recommend you check this one out. This movie is a wildly, audaciously, self-indulgent movie in a way that I could not understand what I was seeing. And I actually took some genuine delight in it. And Hayley Mills is in it. And it was only until I listened to a popular movie podcast called Blank Check that I allowed them to make the connection for me that M. Night Shyamalan put Hayley Mills in it because she was in Parent Trap and his movie was called Trap.

Speaker 4:
[05:47] That's a good enough reason.

Speaker 2:
[05:49] Love that dude sometimes. But guess what? All guesses are wrong. What are we chatting about movies for? This isn't a movie podcast. This is a justice podcast. The correct answer, by the way, was Cujo by Stephen King. Why? Now why? Now this you might not, if you knew Cujo, you might know that wonderful and sad line, the world was full of monsters and they bite everybody and they don't wear it like or whatever.

Speaker 1:
[06:15] Can I guess why, John?

Speaker 2:
[06:17] Yeah, you may guess why, sure.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] Because it's all you think about?

Speaker 2:
[06:22] It is all I think about in that it falls into the rubric of Maine, which is truly what I think about probably every minute of the day. But when we started spending some time in Maine, my wife who is a whole human being in our own right, insisted and insisted and insisted that we must go camping. And I, a person of creature comforts, an indolent, asthmatic child resisted and resisted and resisted until one day there could be no further resistance. So we packed up tents, which we're talking about today, to go camping, which we're also talking about today. And we got in my father-in-law, I guess he's a whole human being in his own right as well, his canoe and took our tents and our children, we didn't leave them behind, across Branch Lake to a campsite and set up. And I was the lone dissenter in the excitement of this until I was the only one who liked it because my wife, whole human being, et cetera, had not been camping in years and years and years. And so was unaware that you can camp, you can sleep on pads now, or even bring lightweight cots. And instead, we were just in sleeping bags on the ground. And it was extremely painful. No one had a good time except for me because I woke up after about 45 minutes worth of sleep realizing, oh, I've got a copy of a Cujo by Stephen King, which I had never read. And I read it all night long in a tent in the darkness in Maine the way it was meant to be. You know how when you see Avatar in a seat back on an airplane, the way it was meant to be seen. That's what reading Cujo was like for me. Cujo is still probably my favorite of the Stephen King novels.

Speaker 4:
[08:15] I've only read The Stand.

Speaker 3:
[08:16] So that's a really cool story.

Speaker 2:
[08:18] Well, you've done enough.

Speaker 4:
[08:19] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[08:20] You've done enough. The Stand is a lot. You ever read any Stephen King, Kristen?

Speaker 3:
[08:26] No, but I was very into the TV adaptation of It in the 90s.

Speaker 2:
[08:32] Sure. Everyone was. Yeah. All good books. But Cujo, I think, is his most heartbreaking novel, and not just because of the plot, but also because of the emotional. Anyway, I don't want to get into it. Let's get into your problems.

Speaker 1:
[08:47] John, I was not into It in the 90s. I was more into news radio. I liked the news radio. And Phil Hartman and Dave Foley.

Speaker 2:
[08:58] Yep. And some other great, great guys in the cast. Cast rounded out by a couple of great guys.

Speaker 1:
[09:06] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[09:09] You want to name them Blair?

Speaker 4:
[09:09] No, I am good.

Speaker 2:
[09:12] In any case, we're going to hear this case. Let's get into it. Kristen, it says here that you come to this court seeking justice. You and Blair are husband and wife, all human beings in your own right, right? Of course.

Speaker 4:
[09:26] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[09:27] And you are, I think, now the ninth consecutive litigants that we've met in Salt Lake City. This is the year of SLC on JJHO, I must say. We got to get over there.

Speaker 4:
[09:40] You do got to get over there.

Speaker 3:
[09:41] Before the lake dries up.

Speaker 4:
[09:42] And we'll take you camping.

Speaker 2:
[09:43] Before the lake dries up.

Speaker 4:
[09:44] Yeah. We'll give you your own room.

Speaker 1:
[09:47] NTY.

Speaker 2:
[09:51] Jesse, I don't like this. He's trying to get me to go out into the wilderness with him. How do we back out of this hole?

Speaker 1:
[09:55] I'll drink one of those sodas that they dump a glass of cream into. I'm not going camping.

Speaker 4:
[10:01] It's dirty sodas.

Speaker 2:
[10:03] Yeah. Dirty sodas is where you mix all of them up.

Speaker 4:
[10:06] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[10:06] With a bunch of cream. Is that what happens in Utah?

Speaker 4:
[10:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[10:08] And a bunch of cream.

Speaker 4:
[10:09] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[10:10] But aside from all of the wonderful things about Salt Lake City that we just alluded to, including the rapidly dwindling Great Salt Lake, and also your weird soda pop habits, you're surrounded by profound natural beauty there and you go camping. Is that correct?

Speaker 3:
[10:27] Yes, we do.

Speaker 2:
[10:28] Kristen, how often do you go camping?

Speaker 3:
[10:31] We go at least once a month from spring to fall. We'd like to go more often, but sometimes, you know, we're busy and sometimes the campsites fill up quickly, too.

Speaker 4:
[10:44] And capitalism calls. I don't have a lot of PTO. Kristen has the summers off because she works in schools, so.

Speaker 2:
[10:51] Right. You're not retired people with all the time in the world at your leisure. Blair, let's get into it. You have a podcast. What's it called?

Speaker 4:
[11:01] Well, it's called Relationscapes. And I interview people about all kinds of different families and gender and sexuality and relationships and race and all kinds of how we are becoming who we are. But primarily interviewing authors about that stuff.

Speaker 2:
[11:15] Relationscapes is the name of the podcast. It's not the only thing that you're here to buzz market. We'll get to that in a minute. But Kristen, I felt like I interrupted you when I asked you how often you go camping.

Speaker 3:
[11:25] I was just going to rave about the beauty that we have here. We have the Mighty Five. It's the five national parks as well as so many state parks. Then we have canyons. Blair and I live, we're very close to canyons. We have so much natural beauty that we're surrounded by. It's incredible. Anytime we start to get frustrated with Utah, I think we both just simmer down a little bit and then we're like, no, this is a beautiful state. We can't leave.

Speaker 4:
[11:53] We escape it by going into its wilds.

Speaker 2:
[11:57] Yeah. You escape it by leaving other people. Yeah. Wherever you are, it's rarely the empty wilderness that's the problem. It's usually the people. You're the people.

Speaker 1:
[12:07] Canyons are good everywhere.

Speaker 2:
[12:09] Canyons are good everywhere unless you're falling into one.

Speaker 3:
[12:12] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[12:14] The Mighty Five is Moab and the other four, right?

Speaker 3:
[12:18] Yeah. So Arches, Brice, Zion and then Capitol Reef and Canyonlands. They're all incredible.

Speaker 4:
[12:26] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[12:26] How many of them have signature socks for sale at Pendleton Woolen Company?

Speaker 4:
[12:31] I should know that.

Speaker 2:
[12:32] Jesse Thorn, you ever see Pendleton's line of National Park themed socks and throws and scarves? It's really cool.

Speaker 1:
[12:41] I have a pair of Sequoia National Park socks.

Speaker 2:
[12:47] I have an Acadia from Pendleton, an Acadia National Park themed cat bed. I don't sleep in it. They made a big enough one. I would curl up in it for sure in front of the fire. Acadia National Park, of course, being in Maine. All right. When is your next camping trip?

Speaker 3:
[13:05] So we have to go a few days before Memorial Day because the dispersed camping where we go, it gets really overtaken. I mean, it gets occupied. But we go to a place called the San Rafael Swell. It's in Utah.

Speaker 2:
[13:21] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[13:21] If you've heard of Goblin Valley State Park, that's in the same area.

Speaker 4:
[13:26] You should look up Goblin Valley.

Speaker 3:
[13:28] It looks like you're on Mars.

Speaker 2:
[13:29] I've heard of it.

Speaker 1:
[13:30] I happen to be reading The Hobbit with my kid right now.

Speaker 4:
[13:34] Well, I'm reading Lord of the Rings, but yeah.

Speaker 3:
[13:36] It's beautiful. We have special family memories there. So that's where we hope to go. That's where we plan to go a few days before Memorial Day weekend.

Speaker 2:
[13:45] That will be the next trip.

Speaker 3:
[13:46] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[13:47] So this is about which tent you're going to take on this upcoming camping trip. We have a few weeks to make this decision. Actually, I'm going to make the decision right here. That's called setting the stakes, the tent stakes.

Speaker 1:
[14:01] Wow.

Speaker 4:
[14:01] Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[14:04] Judge Hodgman, you know how we always say that Maximum Fun is supported by the members of Maximum Fun, Judge John Hodgman is supported by you, that kind of thing?

Speaker 2:
[14:13] I do know, Jesse. I do know.

Speaker 1:
[14:15] Guess what? That's real. It's the MaxFunDrive. That's when we ask you to go to maximumfun.org/join and become one of the people who supports Judge John Hodgman. Our entire operation is supported directly by you. When you go to maximumfun.org/join, you are paying for the production of our program. And it is direct too. It's not like MaximumFun has a big pile of money in there discretionarily throwing it out. It's that if you are a Judge John Hodgman listener and you become a member of MaximumFun, your money is going directly to support Judge John Hodgman, both in its production and in its operations that MaximumFun helps us with. Why are we member supported? I mean, the reality is that it protects us from the bananas, vicissitudes of the advertising market. Take it from me, the guy who used to be the owner of MaximumFun. You can't count on it, and you certainly can't count on it to pay people salaries unless you got a huge margin, which we don't. And it's also simply that we would rather work for you than work for advertisers or work for Netflix or work for... Well, it is great that we work directly for our audience. Levels start at five bucks a month, so maximumfun.org/join is the place to go.

Speaker 2:
[15:40] The vicissitudes of the podcast industry are indeed bananas. And over the years of Judge John Hodgman, your direct support has helped us weather those storms, those ups, those downs. And also, I hope give you a really good feeling of paying for something that you like. Certainly gives me a good feeling to know that our listeners support us and that we're not working for a corporation that doesn't care about you or me or Jesse or anyone. You can join for the first time at just $5 a month, just as Jesse said. You choose the shows that you want to support, including Judge John Hodgman, I hope so. And when you do, you get a lot of great extras, including bonus content, even at the $5 a month level, you get access to bonus content, not just for our show, but all of the MaxFun shows, not just for our monthly members only mailbag, but all of the bonus content episodes we've made before in the past, including Jesse reacting hilariously to cats and dogs and other pets.

Speaker 1:
[16:32] That's the giant supercut of me being shown pictures of animals.

Speaker 2:
[16:37] One of the most delightful things to fall asleep to, I must say.

Speaker 1:
[16:40] But we truly, we make an episode every single month just for members of Maximum Fun. If you don't know, it's called the Membo Mailbag. We're very proud of it. We also make special stuff every year.

Speaker 2:
[16:52] And this year, Jesse, we take a greasy food stain page from our annual holiday feast, and we sample some of our audience's favorite late night Munchies. That's right. We got our Munchies Boko episode coming up. We got some wild combinations.

Speaker 1:
[17:08] John, the drive this year started on April 20th, 420. So I'm not gonna get too into the specifics of our Munchies episode, but let's just say we did some munching, okay? Let's say we rolled some things in cream cheese and whatever, something with pickles. I don't even know. If you think Midwesterners eat weird things when they're making casseroles, think about, wait till you find out what kind of stuff they eat on 420 at 1 o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2:
[17:34] Yeah, I'm just going to, I'll give you a little heads up. Potato chips dusted in hot chocolate powder. You want to hear it, become a member at maximumfun.org/join. That's in your bonus content feed right now. If you become a member at maximumfun.org/join. But I'll tell you this, there was one Munchie that we were frankly too scared and disgusted to try, and that is the PB&ST sandwich. That's right. Peanut Butter and Spicy Tuna. Submitted by listener member Clint in a delightfully obscene video. I mean obscene by, it's exactly as it sounds. Peanut Butter and Packaged Spicy Tuna. We're too scared to try it. However, if we get to 350 new members by the end of Friday the 24th.

Speaker 1:
[18:19] That's my birthday, John.

Speaker 2:
[18:21] That's right, as a birthday gift to all of us, we will eat Spicy Tuna and Peanut Butter Sandwiches live on the JJHO YouTube channel next Monday. That's right, we'll eat it live streaming Peanut Butter and Spicy Tuna. Maybe I'll put a little candle in it for your birthday, Jesse. But let's get back to the topic at hand. That's maximumfun.org/join.

Speaker 1:
[18:44] Look, there are all kinds of thank you gifts that you can get. You can see them all at maximumfun.org/join. All the levels above $5 come with thank you gifts if you're new or upgrading. You can go take a look at the key chains and stuff like that. But we also have one other really cool thing that is new this year, which is an ad free feed. If you join or upgrade to the $10 a month level or above, you can listen to Judge John Hodgman without our ads. Now, why would you want less Judge John Hodgman, our beautiful charm of us talking about our favorite sponsors? I couldn't tell you, but if that is a priority for you, if you join at $10 a month or above, you'll get access to an ad-free free to Judge John Hodgman, and for that matter, Jordan, Jesse Goh as well, my other program if you're interested. So another great reason to become a member at maximumfun.org join.

Speaker 2:
[19:36] There really are so many reasons and we could go on and on about them, but the most important one of course is supporting creators that you like. I'm not just talking about me and Jesse, but of course our producer, Jennifer Marmer, our editor AJ McKeon, our video editor Daniel Spear, our social media manager, Megan Rosati. All the people who make Judge John Hodgman go are paid directly from member support. Never mind the lights and the heating at Maximum Fun HQ, and all the people who devote their time to work there to bring you the podcasts that you love. It's a very good feeling to support the things you like, especially in a media landscape where basically you feel like you're subscribing for stuff you don't want. Why not support stuff you do want and is part of your day every day? Again, memberships begin at $5 a month. You can up upfront to pay for a year in advance, so you can just set it and forget it. You don't have to worry about it every month. But however you choose to become a member, the most important thing is that you do become a member. Don't do it, do go to maximumfun.org/join.

Speaker 1:
[20:43] It's maximumfun.org/join. And that link of course is always right there in the show notes. You can just tap on it.

Speaker 2:
[20:51] The name of the tent that you favor Blair and which you Kristen favor less is what Blair?

Speaker 4:
[21:00] This is the Spring Bar Tent, a Utah original. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[21:04] Okay. And this is what you have come here to Stealth Advertise today.

Speaker 4:
[21:09] I wish. They don't really do discounts and stuff.

Speaker 2:
[21:12] Tell me all about the Spring Bar.

Speaker 4:
[21:14] Okay. The Spring Bar Tent is your luxury canvas tent. It is breathable. It is beautiful. It is very, very heavy and large. But it's the sort of tent that you can set up in and you feel, you can walk around in it. You're not crouching and crawling around on the ground.

Speaker 2:
[21:34] Like some kind of animal.

Speaker 4:
[21:35] Like, yeah. When you go outside, you want to stay off the, you know, you don't like dirt if you're going camping, right? But it is so comfortable and so breathable and so cozy. And if there are storms, these things can stand up in hurricane storms. I know this sounds like a commercial, but I'm telling you, no wind can take these things down. No rain can penetrate the fortress that is their canvas skin. Like everything's under control when you've got your spring bar. Ten and I grew up with one. We had one all growing up. All the camping trips I took with my family, we always had the spring bar, the trusty spring bar.

Speaker 2:
[22:12] And you're a person of average age, so you know, this is not some new, newfangled product.

Speaker 4:
[22:19] Right.

Speaker 2:
[22:19] This is not something that someone invented yesterday that's being advertised at me at Instagram all day long.

Speaker 4:
[22:24] No, these are old school.

Speaker 2:
[22:25] This is an established product.

Speaker 4:
[22:26] Yeah, from the 60s.

Speaker 2:
[22:28] Okay. Let's take a look. I think you sent in some evidence. Take a look at this thing. Obviously, the evidence, the photographic evidence, will all be presented on our social media. And if you're on our YouTube page at Judge John Hodgman Podd right now, you are seeing it. Look at this. Holy, holy moly.

Speaker 4:
[22:46] It's Goblet Valley.

Speaker 2:
[22:48] Holy George Harriman, creator of Crazy Cat. I think that he, I think that his famous Southwestern landscapes in the back of the Crazy Cat comic strip were not from Utah necessarily, but whatever, same region. Gorgeous. This is Goblin Valley right here?

Speaker 4:
[23:06] Yeah. Yeah, it's a state park.

Speaker 2:
[23:07] I can see why you would take the risk of being camping near orcs in order to enjoy this. This is gorgeous.

Speaker 4:
[23:15] Yeah, the spring bar is in the rear there. Yeah, the foreground is a nylon kind of bad tent. And then in the back, you've got the good spring bar.

Speaker 2:
[23:22] So the spring bar definitely looks more like a cubular.

Speaker 4:
[23:28] Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2:
[23:29] It looks less tent like it looks more structured and permanent.

Speaker 4:
[23:33] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[23:34] In the foreground, what I'm seeing here is a classic, you know, a classic polyester ripstop tent that you would get contemporary tent. Whose is that, by the way?

Speaker 4:
[23:46] Whose was that?

Speaker 3:
[23:47] I don't know. We had a group of people with us. This is the group site. And this is not even the most beautiful part of Goblin Valley, I must say. It's gorgeous. But there are these structures called hoodoos in the valley that are amazing. Anyway, I just wanted to give a plug for Goblin Valley, I guess.

Speaker 2:
[24:03] Yeah, I've heard that this area of Goblin Valley is called Bullsh** Gorge. I was hoping, I was hoping, Kristen, you're going to tell me that this nylon tent in the foreground was your tent and that you sleep separately in separate tents. That far away.

Speaker 4:
[24:21] I think that's the Kavlyov's tent, and I think that tent injured somebody in the windstorm that happened on this trip.

Speaker 3:
[24:26] There's a funny story.

Speaker 4:
[24:27] Where every single tent was wiped out, except for one.

Speaker 2:
[24:31] Except for one, the spring bar.

Speaker 4:
[24:33] It stood alone.

Speaker 3:
[24:35] This is a wildly windy area, depending on the time. You can never quite determine if you're going to get the wind or not. But we went with a group of friends, and we had a friend who was setting up the tent. And from what I... We didn't witness it, but from what I hear, the wind kind of took it and tumbled the tent, and he...

Speaker 4:
[24:57] It lifted him off the ground like a parachute.

Speaker 3:
[24:59] He sustained a wrist injury. The wind was that strong.

Speaker 2:
[25:04] Did he end up having to cut off his wrist with a pocket knife?

Speaker 3:
[25:07] Then in there. Right then in there.

Speaker 1:
[25:10] He, like, Mary Poppins?

Speaker 2:
[25:12] He did.

Speaker 4:
[25:12] He Mary Poppins and then he died.

Speaker 2:
[25:15] And there is an animal in the foreground. I presume that that is a dingo come to steal your baby.

Speaker 4:
[25:20] It looks like it. That's Pickle.

Speaker 3:
[25:21] Pickle Delicious.

Speaker 2:
[25:23] Pickle Delicious. And is this your only pet?

Speaker 3:
[25:26] No, we also have a desert tortoise whom you've met on...

Speaker 4:
[25:30] Get Your Pets.

Speaker 2:
[25:31] Oh, I met your desert tortoise on Get Your Pets, my every now and then afternoon talk show, in which I, a person who used to be on actual television, goes online and talks to people's pets.

Speaker 4:
[25:39] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[25:40] And then we do have like an aquarium with a fish and two shrimp and a snail.

Speaker 4:
[25:43] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[25:44] What are the shrimps and snails names?

Speaker 3:
[25:46] One is Percy Jackson and one is Shrimp NPC. I think that's an amazing digital circus reference.

Speaker 4:
[25:53] It's just NPC. And the fish is Winston.

Speaker 3:
[25:57] Winston Bubbles, the 13th... The 13th Junior.

Speaker 4:
[26:00] Junior, yeah, because the 13th died early on. And then we got a new one.

Speaker 3:
[26:03] And then the snail is Gary's brother.

Speaker 4:
[26:05] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[26:06] Gary killed the former Winston.

Speaker 4:
[26:08] We think.

Speaker 3:
[26:09] We think.

Speaker 1:
[26:10] I'm glad to know that you're following Mexican wrestling rules, where each pet that replaces the previous pet is known as that pet named Junior.

Speaker 4:
[26:22] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[26:23] That's all our son.

Speaker 4:
[26:24] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[26:25] I heard that the spring bar has a great aquarium vestibule.

Speaker 4:
[26:29] Yeah. Yeah. That's an add-on though.

Speaker 2:
[26:31] Yeah. Okay. All right. Any more photos of the spring bar you want to share with me here? I think I see some down there. Let's take a look. What? Okay. This is from inside. This is from inside the spring bar.

Speaker 4:
[26:43] You see that gear cabinet in the top, John? This is when it's raining. You can kind of see if you look close, you can see the speckles of rain.

Speaker 2:
[26:51] You're putting on your ShamWow salesperson voice. Now, you see that gear net. Oh, yeah. Okay. Fair enough, Blair. What's going on up there in that gear net?

Speaker 4:
[27:01] The gear cabinet. See? You got her tablet up there. We're all enjoying a film. I believe it's, yeah, I won't say the name, but we're enjoying the film laid back while the rain is going. There's nothing better than I think. I love being trapped in the tent when it's raining a little bit, especially with the spring bar. I know I'm going to stay dry. You can hear the rain pitter-patter, everybody's cozy. You're watching a movie together. Or in some cases, we're playing board games or reading books. These tents are great because you can chill in them like a living room. And that's why they're so nice. They're so nice for that. So, yeah, that's what we're seeing here is a film.

Speaker 2:
[27:38] So you're watching a movie, you love listening to the rain pitter-pat as you watch an unnamed movie, knowing that unlike your friend, you're not going to be swept up by a tornado and wrist-injured as a result.

Speaker 4:
[27:51] That's right. And everybody's cozy. Everybody's got their spot.

Speaker 1:
[27:55] This is nice. I mean, I'm looking at this picture and I can see this patented gear sling technology at the top here. And this is really good to me because this tent makes it so that you can watch a movie on a 10-inch screen.

Speaker 4:
[28:13] Yeah, 10.1.

Speaker 1:
[28:16] While sitting on the ground. So that's really nice. I mean, this is a really convincing reason to go camping.

Speaker 2:
[28:24] That's why you go out into the wilderness.

Speaker 4:
[28:25] You have to engage your five senses, Jesse. There's the smell of the rain and the desert dust and the canvas that brings so many memories to me. There's the sound, as I mentioned, and the kids are being quiet because the movie's on.

Speaker 2:
[28:38] I want to look at the next slide. I guess this would be exhibit D. Okay, this is a bigger picture of the inside.

Speaker 4:
[28:46] This is a larger tent. The one we saw was the 10 by 10 tent. This is our second tent, which is 10 by 14. It's a larger space. We needed to expand as the family grew.

Speaker 2:
[28:56] Both of them spring bars?

Speaker 4:
[28:57] Both of them spring bars. That's right.

Speaker 2:
[28:59] You still have both of them? You still use both of them? Or did you graduate to the 10 by 14?

Speaker 4:
[29:03] I tend to use the 10 by 10 when I go on a one-off with one of the kids or something, so that it's nice to still have that tent.

Speaker 3:
[29:09] And don't worry, there is a third in existence.

Speaker 2:
[29:13] A third spring bar in your family existence?

Speaker 3:
[29:15] Yeah, in our house.

Speaker 2:
[29:17] Or do you own the three spring bars in the world?

Speaker 1:
[29:19] Or are you telling us that you're in a threeple, but only two of you are here on the program?

Speaker 3:
[29:25] There was only room for the two.

Speaker 4:
[29:26] Yeah, two chairs.

Speaker 2:
[29:28] Kristen, I gotta say, this all looks pretty cozy in there, to me, as a non-camping expert. Why do you want to throw this tent into the fire?

Speaker 3:
[29:39] All right. So can I talk about my love for the tent, for the spring bar? I know that seems counterintuitive.

Speaker 2:
[29:45] I can only presume that you're getting money from them as well. So please do.

Speaker 3:
[29:49] I just have to say, I really do love the spring bar. It keeps us dry. I never have to worry about getting wet or waking up with a wet sleeping bag or water pooled in the corner of the tent when we're in the spring bar. I love that. When it's windy, we don't have to worry about it. We can stand up and get dressed. There's room. I really, really do love a lot of things about this tent. Despite the fact that the first time I saw this type of tent, I told Blair that it looked really pretentious and stupid. I didn't like the look of it. But then the first night that we, yeah, the first time we went camping in it and there was a rainstorm and we stayed completely dry. I was sold for this tent in certain circumstances. There are other circumstances in which a spring bar is unnecessary, cumbersome, and very, very difficult for me to pack up by myself when I'm the person. The situation necessitates me packing up all by myself, which has happened a few times even when we're camping as a family for various reasons which we can get into if you want. But I believe that for certain trips, we should be able to have and use and enjoy either a nylon or polyester tent that is much easier to put up and take down. And yeah, less cumbersome takes less time. This one takes so much time.

Speaker 2:
[31:19] Why does it take so much time to break down and or set up?

Speaker 3:
[31:23] Now, I'll say that Blair has evidence that goes against this, but my...

Speaker 2:
[31:28] We'll take a look at it.

Speaker 3:
[31:29] Okay, my...

Speaker 2:
[31:30] But I don't want to deny you your lived experience the way Blair wants to.

Speaker 3:
[31:33] Yes, yes. My anecdotal experience is that when we are camping either in a group or we wake up in the morning and we're in a campsite and we see other people and we're all taking down at the same time, our family is consistently an hour behind everyone else. Everyone else leaves an hour before we do because there's so much involved in the taking down of this tent that it just, it's very-

Speaker 2:
[32:00] Why is the spring bar more challenging to take down than an average Eastern Mountain sports tent?

Speaker 3:
[32:08] One thing, I think one thing is that this tent in camp life, specifically for the spring bar with Blair, is the only area in his life that he's very, very detail-oriented.

Speaker 4:
[32:23] My job too.

Speaker 3:
[32:24] Well, okay. Yes, your job. You do such a good job. But he's like at home, and I'm not trying to complain, I'm just saying the objective truth of like socks on the floor, garbage not in the garbage can and things, that never happens.

Speaker 2:
[32:40] Kristen, I would urge you to complain.

Speaker 3:
[32:43] Okay. I'm just saying I'm not trying to neg Blair.

Speaker 2:
[32:48] I would urge you to neg Blair.

Speaker 3:
[32:51] And he is ever improving.

Speaker 2:
[32:52] Blair is also a podcaster. You think Blair isn't winding up his relationship experts, trying to get them to say provocative things on relationships?

Speaker 4:
[33:02] I've interviewed a lot of people that talk about marriage relationship equality.

Speaker 3:
[33:06] Yeah. No, honestly, I'm not just saying this. Blair is always trying to improve in that area. But when it's with the spring bar, and he can tell you his process, he's sweeping it. He sweeps it from the inside. First of all, all the gear comes out. He sweeps the inside, then he has a little vacuum, he vacuums it. Then he's taking it down, and then the canvas needs to be brushed and wiped, and then there's moisture that has collected on the other side. So we're folding it, and it's being wiped and dried. It's canvas, it needs to be completely dry before. It needs more care. And if not, it can mold, it doesn't wear as long, it doesn't last as long. So he takes really, really good care of it, but he's also, I think, more extra than maybe your average spring bar owner. I don't know, it just seems like it. It's being folded in very particular ways. Even how he folds it, like the steak bag gets rolled into the tent, and if he has to sometimes re-roll it, because it hasn't rolled well, and then it goes into a bag, and there's straps to cinch it up, he takes really good care of it, but it does mean that taking it down and packing up takes a lot.

Speaker 2:
[34:24] It's more of a procedure.

Speaker 3:
[34:25] It's a procedure, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[34:28] You mentioned that he has a little vacuum cleaner to clean up messes in there. I think we have exhibit E, a mess. That's by the door. Actually, excuse me, go to the previous one. Oh no.

Speaker 4:
[34:40] That's Goblin Valley.

Speaker 2:
[34:42] Oh my God or whatever.

Speaker 4:
[34:43] The sandstorms.

Speaker 3:
[34:45] That's the sandstorm.

Speaker 2:
[34:46] Oh, that looked like some elementary school throw up to me for sure.

Speaker 4:
[34:49] It's sand.

Speaker 3:
[34:50] It's red sand.

Speaker 4:
[34:50] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[34:51] Just sand.

Speaker 3:
[34:51] Desert sand.

Speaker 1:
[34:53] What else are you bringing on these camping trips? I don't go camping, but sometimes I read about stuff people are bringing camping. Why aren't you at your house?

Speaker 3:
[35:03] No, this is another thing. I'm a wannabe minimalist in my life. I like everything to be simple so that I can enjoy what I'm doing, being outside, camping, being in the hammock, reading with the kids. And so I am always saying, you know, Blair likes to procure camping gear, and I like to not procure more camping gear, despite the fact that I'm here.

Speaker 4:
[35:25] Hence the irony of the case. She wants more camping gear.

Speaker 3:
[35:29] But I like to make things really, really, really simple. So I, you know, he like introduced a fan, and we have yet to use it.

Speaker 4:
[35:38] I've used the fan while napping. If you get a fan in there, you got the two port windows open on the side. It's bringing the breeze right through. You can have a nice nap in there.

Speaker 2:
[35:46] I thought you told me Goblin Valley was a wind trap. Well, it depends on the fan for a day.

Speaker 4:
[35:52] We have other places we go, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[35:53] Like depending on the time of day, too. The wind comes in like in the evening. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:57] Kristen, what other items besides the besides the tablet computer and the hand vacuum and the fan for when it's not a windstorm, what other items has Blair procured for this camping lifestyle?

Speaker 3:
[36:13] We don't have too much, honestly. We've got the sleeping pads. We use a big air mat, a queen air mattress, sleeping bags, our clothes and then our shoes. Oh, we do have, he has like little mats inside to collect.

Speaker 4:
[36:26] Carpet.

Speaker 3:
[36:27] The carpet, yeah. But really, I mean, we really go pretty simple. He's wanted other things to-

Speaker 2:
[36:32] You bring carpet?

Speaker 4:
[36:33] Yeah. It's so nice. You put the carpet in the entrance and you just kind of roll it out there. So you're not tracking all the dirt in.

Speaker 1:
[36:40] There's the jacuzzi tub. Forgot about the jacuzzi tub.

Speaker 3:
[36:43] It's a lot of setup sometimes for us not spending a lot of time in there. And if we have a trip where we're spending two or three nights, it's worth it for sure. But there are times when we have had spent one night somewhere and then we move and spend another night somewhere else. And it's a lot of up and down, you know, setup and take down in multiple locations. Yeah, and so one of the reasons I'd like a different tent is for some of those times.

Speaker 2:
[37:14] Short stays.

Speaker 3:
[37:14] Yeah, a short stay.

Speaker 2:
[37:16] Let me ask you some questions about this tent. I understand you're not hiking this tent in, bringing it in in your car.

Speaker 4:
[37:23] Yeah, the tent weighs, with the poles, about 80 pounds for the large tent. The smaller tent is about 60.

Speaker 2:
[37:29] Did you say 80 pounds?

Speaker 4:
[37:31] 80 pounds with the poles.

Speaker 2:
[37:32] So, if it's just a canvas, 60 for the little one, for the 10 by tent.

Speaker 1:
[37:38] Yeah, that's with the poles, John. If it's just a canvas, you're not gonna bring the poles, it's a lot lighter.

Speaker 2:
[37:44] Yeah, if it's just a pole, it's only 45 pounds.

Speaker 1:
[37:47] A lot of times, when they're going on a quick trip, they'll just have the kids hold it up.

Speaker 4:
[37:51] Yes, or you use it as a blanket.

Speaker 2:
[37:53] I mean, I went on Wirecutter to see what their recommendations are the best tents of today are. And their number one pick, they were like, we like this one a lot. It is a little heavy at 17 pounds.

Speaker 4:
[38:09] Well, that's for backpacking and all that stuff. We're never doing that, we're car campers.

Speaker 2:
[38:16] But Kristen, you would like to do some backpack camping.

Speaker 3:
[38:19] Yes, and that, I mean, we both know like-

Speaker 4:
[38:22] I would never dream of taking a spring bar.

Speaker 3:
[38:23] No, the spring bar is not for backpacking.

Speaker 2:
[38:26] But Blair, you acknowledge that this is a heavy equipment compared to other contemporary tent options.

Speaker 4:
[38:32] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[38:32] And it says here in the affidavit that I got from Jennifer Marmor, our producer, says Blair will not sleep in nylon. Explain.

Speaker 4:
[38:41] Yeah. So there's a lot, I got a lot of problems. I mean, the first thing is I would say to me, sleeping in a nylon tent is sort of like sleeping in a garbage bag. And it's because it doesn't breathe well. There's a lot of sensory issues I have with it. The smell of a nylon tent is nauseating. And I have bad history with nylon tents. I have involving throwing up in nylon tents.

Speaker 1:
[39:10] Your stem was a nylon tent. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[39:13] Yeah, exactly. So I would say the sound of them is really bad. I don't like how they sound. I don't like how they, I just don't like how it feels. The insulation, they do. In the wind, it's terrible. They will wake you up in the wind regardless.

Speaker 3:
[39:28] We're not always sleeping in a windy place.

Speaker 4:
[39:30] That's true. But they also have terrible insulation. So you're dealing with hotter, hot, hot, hot during the day. And then during the night, much colder temperatures when you're in a nylon tent compared to a canvas tent. The breathability is very bad. When you wake up in a nylon tent, you've got all your breath condensation, water droplets all over the tent. You stand up and it's like a little rain shower of all the stuff you were breathing out during the night. Nobody wants to deal with that.

Speaker 3:
[39:54] May I say, regarding heat in the nylon tent, again, we're not spending time, considerable time in the tent.

Speaker 4:
[40:01] We'll strike that from the record. That's fine. I'm still going with the condensation. I'm going with the soundscape of it is terrible.

Speaker 2:
[40:09] Yeah, the soundscape is terrible. And you know how Blair feels about scapes.

Speaker 4:
[40:12] Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2:
[40:15] Now, one thing that you mentioned, Kristen, that you like about the spring bar is that there's rarely pools of condensation or leaking water inside.

Speaker 3:
[40:25] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[40:26] And I would have thought whether it's nylon or any of the other new contemporary materials, they're making tents out of Dyneema composite fabric, silt nylon, silt poly, PU coated ripstop polyester, all these things, that not letting water in would be kind of the first priority. And yet you're telling me that the kind of tent you want leaks?

Speaker 3:
[40:49] So, if we ever were going a place where there was any chance of rain in the forecast, I would say, let's not, unless I was going by myself, which sometimes happens, I would say, let's not risk it, let's take the spring bar. I'm talking using a nylon or some other type of tent when there's no rain in the forecast, no, you know, we're not in a windy spot, it's not going to be particularly cold. I'm saying spring bar should be our go-to, and then sometimes we can also do another tent for when it's going to be a shorter trip. We need to just be fast up and out.

Speaker 1:
[41:31] Like when you're on the run from the law?

Speaker 3:
[41:33] Exactly.

Speaker 4:
[41:34] Let the record show, it's the seams, John, it's the seams.

Speaker 2:
[41:38] Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[41:39] The water's coming into the seams, you see. So you can have any kind of material you want, but those have been sewn together. And it's the same with the spring bar. They have seams too, but with the canvas tent, it expands when it gets wet. That canvas material expands and they have a rope around the bottom and it ties up the seams. You don't have that with the nylon tent. And the inside condensation.

Speaker 2:
[41:59] Speaking of seams, it seems to me that there are probably some new lightweight tents that don't have the problems you're suggesting.

Speaker 4:
[42:08] Not at the price point that I think Kristen would be interested in.

Speaker 3:
[42:11] I wanna say that prior to this discussion, I have not even done research on these tents because it wasn't even in the realm of possibility.

Speaker 2:
[42:21] Why do you mean it wasn't in the realm of possibility? Because Blair...

Speaker 3:
[42:23] Because I could buy a tent and use it for myself. Or if I went with the kids, I could go. But he will never consider doing a family trip with a tent other than a spring bar. He will not sleep in a non-spring bar tent.

Speaker 2:
[42:37] Well, that's why we're here.

Speaker 3:
[42:38] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[42:39] For me to force him to do it.

Speaker 1:
[42:41] You also, Kristen, understand the horrible sound that a nylon tent makes.

Speaker 4:
[42:46] It's so bad.

Speaker 2:
[42:47] It goes like this.

Speaker 3:
[42:50] In the wings.

Speaker 2:
[42:53] I want to hear Blair's.

Speaker 4:
[42:54] Yeah, it's more like nails on chalkboard, but a little quieter. Like a jacket you wear that you don't like because it's making noise when you're moving around. You know, it's like, it's noisy.

Speaker 2:
[43:06] My suggestion to you, Blair, is just turn up the movie and wrap that carpet around your head.

Speaker 1:
[43:11] Judge Hodgman, I understand what Blair is talking about because in my family, I once used the wrong kind of pen and one of my children started crying.

Speaker 4:
[43:19] Yeah, what?

Speaker 1:
[43:20] Because of the sound it made.

Speaker 4:
[43:22] Yeah, the sound.

Speaker 2:
[43:24] Blair, you said that the smell of the nylon tent is a thing, but not the main thing.

Speaker 4:
[43:28] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[43:29] So what is the main thing?

Speaker 4:
[43:31] The main thing is a lack of feeling of security with the tent. When I have the Spring Bar Tent, I am confident that my family and myself are going to stay dry, that we're going to withstand any weather that comes our way, that we have plenty of room to move around, that we all have our space in the tent. And I have the routine down as far as setting it up and putting it down. I could speak to how long it takes because the tent itself isn't the problem. It's all the other stuff that gets packed. And I'm the only one putting this stuff away. So I would love to shorten that time by inviting a little bit more assistance from the rest of the family. But the main thing then is that feeling of security, that feeling of, I don't have to worry about that part of the tent. And you say we don't spend a lot of time in the tent and it's true, but we sleep all night in it. You're in there. That's, you know, for whatever reason humans are built to sleep most of our lives away and why not do it in luxury?

Speaker 2:
[44:20] Kristen, did you want to add something to your thought before I feel like I interrupted you there?

Speaker 3:
[44:25] Oh, I don't know exactly where to go. I have a lot of thoughts.

Speaker 2:
[44:29] Why don't we hear some of your thoughts?

Speaker 3:
[44:32] I just want to say that it's a laborious process that I think has deleterious effects for Blair's health.

Speaker 4:
[44:41] You think? Okay.

Speaker 3:
[44:43] No. Especially in the sun, in the heat, it can take a lot out of him to be in there and to be taking it down. But if it was less work, that would be good. Also, if he gets sick or say, yeah, if he gets sick or if I'm-

Speaker 4:
[44:59] I'm not very sickly, man.

Speaker 3:
[45:00] No, you're not sickly. You just get heat stroke. He said he used to get heat stroke as a kid too. It's just a thing he deals with. But if he's sick or if he's gone from camp, there's been a time when he was rafting while I had to take down camp on my own. It's just really laborious, I think, for one person to be taking down the spring bar. I also wanted to say he talked about that I'm worried about damage to the tent because his standards for the tent are really high. And one picture that we submitted that didn't get accepted into the evidence file was a hole that our dog, Pickle Delicious, had made in the window. It's a really delicate material. And I think she was going after a lizard or something. And she made a hole in the tent. And Blair said that he handled it really well. I remember that stress really, really rose for all of us when that happened because he's so...

Speaker 4:
[45:58] They're worried about my reaction without paying attention to what my reaction is, which was very chill.

Speaker 3:
[46:03] I was like, we'll have to get it repaired. It was not chill. It was very stressful. And so that also disincentivizes us from taking Pickle.

Speaker 2:
[46:12] One of you is not telling the truth.

Speaker 4:
[46:14] I think we have two different perceptions. Tell the mud story. I think that is...

Speaker 2:
[46:18] No, no, no. I want to stay on this story. Nice try at deflecting there, Blair. When Pickle Delicious messed up your window.

Speaker 4:
[46:26] And yeah, I felt bad that it was damaged, right? Because these are expensive tents. So I definitely felt like, dang it, like kind of like, ah, you know, definitely a downer. It needs to be repaired. So I was...

Speaker 2:
[46:36] Kristen, wait, hang on, Blair. Blair just represented that he said, dang it. Was that accurate or not?

Speaker 3:
[46:45] From my memory and my perspective, no. I just remember the feeling. The feeling was of, he was very upset and mad. And it kind of made me think like, well, why did we bring Pickle? And we can't bring Pickle because Pickle is a dog. She's, you know, running on instinct and this could happen. This is the thing. If you bring a dog camping, you know that something could happen.

Speaker 2:
[47:07] It's obviously, this is a beautiful piece of workpersonship that is a wee bit fancier and of more traditional materials, right? Than your average ripstop garbage bag tent that everyone else sleeps in because they're lesser than you, Blair, obviously.

Speaker 4:
[47:26] They're wonderful.

Speaker 2:
[47:28] But wouldn't you, wouldn't I think that I would be a little, even though this is designed for outdoor use, the wear and tear might be a wear and tear on my soul to see my beloved 10 by tent or 14 by tent, spring bar tent getting must up by my dog or my wife or my kids or whatever.

Speaker 4:
[47:51] I think this is where I've changed, John, I would say, is I did, part of this, I admit, is rooted in some childhood stuff around my dad being very particular about the spring bar tent. I inherited this from him, no shoes in the tent, this, all these rules. I feel like I'm a more chill version of that. And after the Pickle incident, it was hard.

Speaker 2:
[48:11] That's why I love camping, more rules.

Speaker 4:
[48:13] Yeah. We'll just keep stuff.

Speaker 2:
[48:15] Get away from it all and add more rules.

Speaker 4:
[48:17] This is where I can like really excel at doing everything really right for everybody. But after the Pickle incident, and it was hard, and I definitely felt bad about it. But after I went and got that repaired, it was inexpensive, and Spring Bar is great. They'll repair your zippers and your whatever. They're great at this. Now that I know that, and I've experienced that, my anxiety around tent issues has really diminished a lot, I would say.

Speaker 2:
[48:42] Kristen, would you say that Blair is telling the truth or lying?

Speaker 3:
[48:46] I tend to believe what he's saying. We just haven't tested it in a real-life scenario because we have not been camping with Pickle again.

Speaker 2:
[48:55] Kristen, if I were to rule in your favor, and you were to get some kind of new, we're calling it nylon, but I mean, I don't know, whatever, some kind of new non-canvas tent, high-tech material tent, you know how Blair feels about it. Barf is the answer. If you force Blair to sleep in a nylon barf bag, how will you sleep at night?

Speaker 3:
[49:24] I would never subject him to sleeping in like a tent that smelled so bad that it was making him sick. Maybe we could check it out at REI.

Speaker 4:
[49:34] So you'd want to even buy a tent, but not even like borrow one to like do a trial.

Speaker 3:
[49:38] Oh, whatever. I am open to any even tiny experience with the nylon tent as a family, just to give it a trial run.

Speaker 2:
[49:47] Are you suggesting Blair that you and Kristen should go to the tent library to borrow a tent?

Speaker 4:
[49:52] Well, I mean, my dad's number one camping role was don't borrow anything, so I'm kind of going against that. But I would say there's probably a friend that has a cabin style nylon tent that we could try. But yeah, it's a possibility. But again, you don't get that comfort, you don't get that security of the better tent.

Speaker 3:
[50:12] I would never, we would never use it in the rain or the wind or the extreme cold. Or if we were going for three, no, you look at the forecast.

Speaker 1:
[50:20] Blair says forecast, okay.

Speaker 4:
[50:23] Yeah, that's how I feel. You're up in the mountains, there's no forecasting.

Speaker 1:
[50:28] Kristen, if you bought a nylon tent, if you bought a lightweight tent from Modern Materials and brought the dog, what are the chances that that tent would survive a lizard attack?

Speaker 4:
[50:42] Bingo.

Speaker 3:
[50:45] You know, I have no crystal ball. I'm not sure. But I do know that if it's not the spring bar, it would not be as big of an issue.

Speaker 4:
[50:55] Harder to repair.

Speaker 3:
[50:56] If it were ruined. Also, we're just not spending, I don't even know why Pickle was inside the tent. It's so rare for us to be inside the tent.

Speaker 4:
[51:04] The kids let Pickle in the tent. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[51:07] Well, don't worry. From now on, no Pickle and no kids are going to get it. That's my preliminary ruling.

Speaker 4:
[51:13] They can sleep in the Compact, the two-person tent.

Speaker 2:
[51:16] Obviously, I know you're, or I think I know your position, Blair. You like your Canvas tent, both of them.

Speaker 3:
[51:24] Three, all three.

Speaker 2:
[51:25] All three of them, excuse me.

Speaker 1:
[51:27] Small, medium and large.

Speaker 2:
[51:29] What's the name of the brand again? I honestly can't remember. Spring Bar. Spring form?

Speaker 4:
[51:34] Spring Bar. And the reason is because they, when you're putting it together, you got the bars on the side and you spring them out. You put the bar down and it creates the tension in the tent as it lifts up. So, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[51:47] It sounds fascinating and you love it. And you don't want to sleep or camp in anything else, right? That's your position.

Speaker 4:
[51:53] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[51:54] All right. So, Kristen, if I were to rule in your favor, you want me to order that you guys get, I just want to make sure I understand this, a fourth tent made of modern materials, non-canvas, ripstop, nylon, some kind of whatever, for you to use for shorter trips. Is that right? Just to have on hand.

Speaker 3:
[52:16] Yep. Like if we just have a one-nighter.

Speaker 2:
[52:18] If you go camping for one night, Blair, you bring a spring bar?

Speaker 4:
[52:24] Oh, I absolutely would. Yeah. I do that with the kids. I do that when we do overnighters for scouts and all that stuff.

Speaker 3:
[52:30] I guess you do.

Speaker 4:
[52:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[52:32] I mean, John, I know that you're not a big camper, but I went camping one time. My experience was, I spent an hour or whatever building the tent, and then I made dinner, and then I couldn't think of what else you were supposed to do when you were camping.

Speaker 3:
[52:46] You can fish.

Speaker 1:
[52:48] There's a period of time in between finishing making dinner and the part where you make out with your wife that is completely empty. I have no idea what you're supposed to do.

Speaker 2:
[52:56] That's where Cujo comes in. Exactly.

Speaker 4:
[53:00] The book.

Speaker 2:
[53:03] Yeah. Don't let Cujo in the tent. He might mess up the window and bite you to death.

Speaker 4:
[53:09] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[53:10] I think I'm going to go into my chamber's tent right now and read Cujo all night long. And when I come back, I'll give you my verdict.

Speaker 1:
[53:19] Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Blair, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now?

Speaker 4:
[53:28] I'm not sure. I'm not sure, Jesse. I feel like honestly that it could go either way. I feel good about the case I made, and I feel like Kristen made a strong case. So I don't know. I don't have a guess here.

Speaker 1:
[53:44] Kristen, how are you feeling about your chances?

Speaker 3:
[53:47] I don't know if I'm being foolish here, but I am feeling pretty confident.

Speaker 1:
[53:55] Don't you just want to spend your time building and taking apart tents? Isn't that the whole point of going camping?

Speaker 3:
[54:00] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[54:01] I feel like it's not that much, Jesse. Honestly, really, and especially if teamwork is employed, you cut down that time.

Speaker 1:
[54:08] We could as long as you bring the shop back.

Speaker 4:
[54:11] Yeah, that makes it quicker. See, and I bought a drill that you can drill the stakes in because you have to put in like 12 stakes. That's the long part, Jesse, you have to stake the whole thing down.

Speaker 1:
[54:22] Why don't you just build a long cabin?

Speaker 4:
[54:25] I might. Well, you can't fit that in the car.

Speaker 1:
[54:28] Kristen, how do you feel about your chances here?

Speaker 3:
[54:31] Yeah, I'm feeling pretty confident, honestly.

Speaker 1:
[54:34] Why is that?

Speaker 3:
[54:35] I think that Judge John Hodgman saw the wisdom in having a tent that could be more casually used and make things a little more effortless for us in doing something that we really love doing.

Speaker 1:
[54:54] Do you have a plan for tent huffing? Experimental tent huffing to check for barf danger?

Speaker 3:
[55:02] Yeah, I think we should go into a sporting good store and just sniff around. Sniff around to check it out.

Speaker 1:
[55:10] You know what I would suggest? A Utah key party. That's where you go to the desert with some friends, and then one night you switch tents. Nothing else weird happens.

Speaker 4:
[55:23] Huh.

Speaker 1:
[55:25] We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. It's MaxFunDrive, and we're asking you to become a member of Maximum Fun and support Judge John Hodgman directly by going to maximumfun.org/join. Now, we talked about the fact that you can access all this bonus content, that there are all these thank you gifts, that you can access an ad free feed, which is new this year at the $10 a month level and above.

Speaker 2:
[55:56] But honestly, Jesse, that's an incredible value, but that's not why we do MaxFunDrive.

Speaker 1:
[56:00] No, the reason we do MaxFunDrive is because we want this show to be directly supported by its audience. I mean, I started MaxFun 7,000 years ago. We're now a 100% worker owned cooperative. I'm a worker owner, just like Jennifer and our other colleagues here, Judge John Hodgman. But I started MaxFun, whatever it is now, 15, almost 20 years ago, because I was a person that made podcasts and I needed to figure out how to pay my rent. And there were no podcast networks to sign up with. There was no ad deal waiting in the wings.

Speaker 2:
[56:43] There was no Patreon.

Speaker 1:
[56:44] There was no Patreon. There was none of these things, right? What I knew was that if I wanted to work for someone, I wanted to work for the audience of the show, right? There was no one for me to sell the show to. I couldn't give up the control of my work in that way. What I knew was that if I had an audience for whom the show really meant something, that I could ask them to support it, and they would. And that's how Maximum Fun was born. It was that sort of simple equation, like, I believe that if we give away the show and ask people, is this worth paying for, they will say, yes, this has value in my life. Whether that value in their life is that they're like learning something that they can apply to their work or family, or whether it's just a pleasant comfort to them, when things are lousy, right? And that has been the case. You know, MaxFun is now dozens of shows, dozens of employees, and Judge John Hodgman, this show has been going for 15 years. Like, we are so proud to work directly for you. Now, here's the thing, that works when you choose to support us, right? When you go to maximumfun.org/join, they will always say, they will always say on public radio, get up off your good intentions, right? Like, if you actually become a member of Maximum Fun, we're able to do things like hire studios in Kansas City, Kansas, because we need to put microphones and cameras on a couple that lives there, because whatever, well, one of them always wears the same pair of pants or whatever it is, right?

Speaker 2:
[58:33] Yeah. And we're able to bring you video of those not-so-great pants, because we're able to hire our video editor, Daniel Spear, and of course, Jennifer Marmor, our producer and all the other people who make Maximum Fun and Judge John Hodgman go.

Speaker 1:
[58:48] I think that sometimes the picture of a podcast that comes from an Instagram reel of two yokels sitting at Shore SM7 microphones and making a little joke between themselves, sort of understates what a production it is to make a show, even like Judge John Hodgman, right? We have a full complement of staff. Do we have Jennifer and AJ and Daniel and Megan? It is. And that's in addition to John and I who also work very hard on the program. So if you listen to the show and you think it means something to you, I would like you to support it directly, because I would like that to be the way that we are able to make this show. It protects us from the ad market. It protects us from companies that might change their mind about whether our show should even exist. It makes this a sustainable operation, which it has been for many years because of your support.

Speaker 2:
[59:45] Now, everyone knows I can't do subtraction. I don't know why. Something broke in my brain a few years ago. But about 7,000 minus 15 years ago, when we started this podcast, this is my situation. I had become friends with Jesse Thorn and had loved appearing on The Predecessor to Bullseye, The Sound of Young America. I was an avid listener. I loved Jordan Jesse Goh and Jesse invited me to be a judge on a comedy segment on Jordan Jesse Goh. I had a great time. Around that time, I was thinking to myself, should I make a podcast? What I wanted to do was to create a podcast, not for the sake of having one, which I think is why a lot of reasons the podcasts are made. I really wanted to do one then because I wanted a place where I could share the wholeness of myself. I wanted to hang out with my friend Jesse and have fun and interview strangers about their pants and their habits and so forth. But I really wanted a place where I could share the wholeness of myself. People come to me and they say thanks for being funny on the show, but they thank me for being other things on the show. Sympathetic, Sympathetic, Serious. I don't like that stuff, but yeah, that kind of thing. Serious is the thing and I knew even then that there were very few places where I could do such a thing. There was no really big commercial podcasting at the time, but if there had been and I had gone to them, they would have said, yeah, but why not make it funny? Or they would have interfered in some other way.

Speaker 1:
[61:15] They would have said this isn't the brand that people already know you for, which is whatever it is, egghead, know-it-all, stuffed shirt or something, right?

Speaker 2:
[61:25] Yeah. And because Maximum Fun exists and existed, you and because of your support as listeners, you have allowed me to share the wholeness of myself for 15 years. I cannot tell you what that means to me. And it is only because of the Maximum Fun, MaxFunDrive model where two and only two weeks out of every year, we simply ask you to consider supporting financially the shows that you love, including Judge John Hodgman. It wouldn't have happened if I had contracted with a commercial podcasting entity at that time. Given what's happened in the podcasting world, the booms and the busts, it would be done. We would be canceled.

Speaker 1:
[62:07] There's no way we would have made it through all those ups and downs in the industry. There's no way we would have made it through the 17 bosses we would have had over that time. Somebody would have said, I'm taking this away from you, and also you can't have the IP and you can't start a new podcast.

Speaker 2:
[62:22] Yeah. I know friends who that has happened to, and I have felt so grateful every time I get in front of the mic, that I get to share the wholeness of myself with you. It's such a huge gift that you have given me. Of course, it's not a gift. I don't do math well. I don't do subtraction. I don't have a head for high financial deal making or whatever. But I do understand the basic principle of if there is something in the world that you love and you have the means to support it, that it feels good to support it. To pay a creator directly for the work they do that you value is about the simplest artistic transaction that you can imagine. And it's what MaxFun is built on. It's what MaxFun thrives on when so many other financial models have fallen apart. And when it comes basically now to a human level, me being arguably a human being, it has become and continues to be one of the most creatively and personally rewarding things that I do. And it could not happen without your support. That's why we do this MaxFun Drive. That's why I am asking you right now to press pause. Wait, don't press pause yet. Listen to this part. In a moment, press pause. And when you do, go to maximumfun.org/join. Look around, see all the fun things you get. See all the bonus content you're gonna get. Think about how you want to pay, whether it's $5 every month, or pay in advance for the whole year, whatever it is you want to do. But I want you to please go to maximumfun.org/join right now, press pause. I'll be here when you get back. Thank you for going there. Appreciate it. I trust that you did. Jesse Thorn, anything else you want to say?

Speaker 1:
[64:14] Look, that link is right there in the show notes. Just open up your podcast app and tap on it. You can do it right there from your phone. The difference for us isn't about levels of support. We're grateful at every level of support. It's really about the fact that we have listeners who care about this work and say, I affirmatively choose to be supportive of it. I choose to make sure that it exists in the world. We take all of the resources that you give us, we plow them back into the show. I mean, we've got this wonderful editor, we've got this full-time producer, we've got a wonderful social media creator, creating all kinds of stuff. We have a video guy who's making video of every single episode and sharing it across platforms, not just in full episode form on YouTube. All of those things, we're putting people in studios across the country and indeed across the world, occasionally in foreign countries. So we hope that you will make all of that possible by being a member of Maximum Fun. So if you will, please take out that phone and tap that link in the show description or just go to maximumfun.org/join.

Speaker 2:
[65:22] Do you support the wholeness of myself or not? That's my question. No, seriously, we love investing in the show. We love doing it and we hope that you'll invest in us. maximumfun.org/join.

Speaker 1:
[65:38] Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Speaker 2:
[65:43] Oh, hi, I'm back. And I happen to have a copy of Cujo with me right here. It's a paperback copy of Cujo by Stephen King. Now, as you may or may not know, my ceremonial gavel was confiscated at San Francisco International Airport not long ago for resembling a war hammer. Whoa. And consequently, I am gavel-less at the moment, not to worry, as I've mentioned before. Offerman Woodshop, Nick Offerman Proprietor, specifically Maddie, is consulting with me in the construction of a brand new, beautiful wooden custom gavel. And in the meantime, I am gaveling with books that I have here in my office, and deciding to whom or at whom I will throw the book. This copy of Cujo, and I highly recommend you read it, but you will not be reading this one. I will not be sending you this book, as I have been sending out copies of books from my office, because this one is signed. Someone got Stephen King to sign this one for me, and it's one of my prize possessions. So I will be keeping this for myself, but I will be sending the winner of this case, I suppose, a copy of Cujo. I will also send a signed copy of Vacationland. If you're plugging, why can't I? Vacationland shall be plugged and shall be signed and sent, I guess, to the loser of this case. And you both get a book as a result. In the meantime, though, I do have to contemplate who is the winner and who is the loser of this case. I keep coming back to one thing. 60 pounds, 60 pounds of tent. It goes against, this thing goes against everything that, everything that modern camping is supposed to be about, which is compactibility, lightness and ease of use, which is part of the reason, I imagine, that Blair loves this spring bar so much. Never mind the tradition of going camping with his dad and the old-timey and old-fashionedness of it. And you know what? I kind of love it too. I mean, I must be honest. I mean, now I am the spring bar curious. Good buzz marketing, I must say, Blair. For Blair, I think the meditative pleasure of putting up the tent and caring for it and mini-vaccing it and repairing it and putting it away and wiping it down with the special tent brush they must sell for this canvas, whatever. To me, I'm getting the sense that that is part of the pleasure and that is part of the process of camping that he enjoys. Bear in mind, no one needs to go camping. As Jesse Thorn very pointedly pointed out, you could stay in your house and watch a movie. Pickle Delicious could easily damage the window in your home. You know, there's no need for any of this. There's no obligation to be out in the world. You are making life more complicated for yourself. You are abandoning briefly some vestiges of civilization. You're taking quite a bit with you. But the idea of camping is to go away from the everyday world into a world that is slightly less touched by civilization and slightly where you are slightly more obligated to be self-reliant, right? Even though this tent is heavy as F, I mean, really heavy, impractically heavy, that is for Blair part of the charm. Where things go wrong is that Blair has forgotten an important tenet of the Judge John Hodgman courtroom. It was not fun for everybody, it's no fun at all. Blair, Kristen, does not take pleasure in hauling and assembling and disassembling this tent. And why should she? Not why should she take pleasure in it. Why would you ever ask her to do it? This is your thing. This is your thing, Blair. You're out here begging everybody to indulge your old timey tent obsession, and you're also in the same breath saying, I wish I had some more help from these kids and wife of mine. There is another piece of settled law that comes up quite a bit here in the courtroom, which is that, you know, sleeping is an important and personal part of life. When couples who are in love cohabitate, they share a bed. I share a bed with my wife as a whole, we can be on our own, right? But we have the largest bed that we can afford and have space for. Because for all of the togetherness that sleeping involves, once you fall asleep, it is the most solitary thing you can do as a human. Is just lie there quietly, dream and rehearse death. That's solitary. And so I have often made a joke, and it's only a half joke, that if you could, two separate bedrooms or two separate villas connected by a reflecting pool is great for a romantic partnership. So that you can have the sleeping experience that you want and deserve, and not be lying in a bar feed nylon bag. And then your partner, in this case, Kristen, can have the experience that she wants and deserves. There's nothing stopping Kristen from going and getting her own tent. If anything, this is the perfect way to finally put Judge John Hodgman Two Villas and Reflecting Pool rule into action. No one's getting two villas and reflecting pool. But Kristen, you can go out and get your own tent. Sleep out there. Put it up, carry it with you, go and do your own thing, take the kids with you in your own lightweight tent and leave Blair to his complicated canvas heavy tent. This might surprise you to learn that I am ruling in Blair's favor. I don't think that Blair should have to sleep in a non-Springboard, whatever it's called, tent. Spring bar. I think that he has done a good job of not only singing the praises and buzz marketing the benefits of the spring bar to other people, but articulating that the prospect of sleeping in a nylon tent off gassing bar fare into his nostrils all night long is not something that he feels really good about. And I have to respect that. Now, if the tables were turned and you were saying to me, Kristen, that you couldn't stand the smell of this thing or you didn't feel safe in this tent or anything else, then I might be more inclined to rule in your favor or find another solution. But in this case, the solution is very clear. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the camping experience. You can insist upon a pure spring bar experience, Blair, but that puts it on you to set the thing up and put it away. It's your job, your job, period. No one else's job. Sorry. I mean, you can maybe rope your kids into it in some sort of family, whatever, but it's not Kristen's pleasure. It's not what she gets out of camping. It is part of your pleasure, and you should experience it and enjoy it and not be put through pain and bad night smells. Kristen, I don't think you're really going to go out there and buy a nylon tent to sleep and protest outside at the edge of camp by yourself. But absolutely, you should go out there and get a little three-person nylon tent and take your kids camping by yourself sometime and enjoy it. There's nothing stopping you. I would encourage, in fact, that you do some smell tests of more contemporary tent materials, because I'm sure that things have changed a lot, Blair, since you last had them. And so I am going to rule in Blair's favor, but with the caveat and the condition that this tent is his job and his kid's job and your kid's job, I should say, insofar as he can trick them into doing anything about it. But it is a part of Blair's intricate and internal pleasure of camping. And that Blair, it is your obligation, if you are going to force this tent on your family, or at least your wife as a whole, you being in her own right, to make sure that Kristen gets to enjoy the elements of camping that are important to her. Which is being in the moment, being outdoors, enjoying this tent but not having to worry about it. This is the sound of me taking my prized signed copy of Cujo and banging it against my desk as a gavel.

Speaker 3:
[74:48] You could use a little dose of the outdoors.

Speaker 1:
[74:49] Camping blows. It's dirty and I only sleep in on rocks. Bring some Ambien, you'll sleep like a baby.

Speaker 2:
[74:55] Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Speaker 1:
[74:57] Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Blair, how do you feel?

Speaker 4:
[75:04] Surprised. I feel surprised. I think the judge in his infinite wisdom identified a couple of things actually in that ruling that hadn't really struck me very much. And so I feel good.

Speaker 1:
[75:21] Kristen, how do you feel?

Speaker 3:
[75:22] I actually feel very happy. I feel happy for Blair. I feel grateful that we get to camp and enjoy nature together. And the Spring Bar is a freaking awesome tent. So if it's a little bit more effort and time in putting it up and taking it down, I still have a fabulous time every time we go camping. So I'm very happy and excited for the San Rafael Swell.

Speaker 1:
[75:51] Well, Kristen, Blair, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 4:
[75:56] Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[75:56] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[75:59] Another Judge John Hodgman Cases in the Books. As our first MaxFunDrive episode comes to a close for 2026, the time to join is now at maximumfun.org/join. If you've never been a MaxFun member, give it a try at just five bucks a month. It's how we pay the bills here. It is the heart of how we pay the bills. And don't put it off, do it while you're still thinking about it. There are so many amazing thank you gifts you can get when you join or upgrade. You can see them all at maximumfun.org/join. Every year it is tougher and tougher to make independent media and direct support is the thing that makes it possible.

Speaker 2:
[76:41] That's right, Jesse. Maximum Fun is an employee-owned network full of creators who also own their own shows. There's really nothing else like it, not only in podcasting, but in any media that I can think of. The only reason that we can keep going is because of the support from members like you, I hope. If you're not yet a member, this is the time to become one. maximumfun.org/join. If we don't, we're going to have to stop. Please go over there at maximumfun.org/join. Become a member at just $5 a month, or else maybe upgrade or boost your membership.

Speaker 1:
[77:16] Maximum Fun isn't like anybody else. We own our show. The people who support us in making and distributing our show own Maximum Fun. None of the money goes to venture capitalists or indeed capitalists in general. The money goes directly to support the folks who are working on the show. So if you haven't joined us yet, please go to maximumfun.org/join. Our thanks to Redditor toliveandbryanla for naming this week's episode, Criminal In Tent. Seems like the kind of person who would win one of these things.

Speaker 2:
[77:56] No offense to Bolton Nerdist, but to live and bryanla, I love that.

Speaker 1:
[78:02] Yeah. Join us on Reddit there at r slash Maximum Fun. Speaking of Reddit, by the way, John, during the MaxFunDrive, Jordan and I are bringing back our 9 a.m. Pacific noon Eastern streaming program. It's called the Subdoms. Every week we, or every day, we will talk about a different subreddit and what the heck is going on in there.

Speaker 2:
[78:26] That's great.

Speaker 1:
[78:27] If people have favorite odd subreddits, and we're looking for, it's not like joke subreddits, it's like real unusual subreddits. People who are really passionate about painting and miniatures or something like the landscape in train layouts or people, unusual communities of really passionate people, email them to jjho at maximumfund.org. Anyway, we also ask for our title suggestions in r slash maximumfund. So if you're adept at puns or bad at puns, who cares? Go to r slash maximumfund and check that out. Evidence from the show on our Instagram account at instagram.com/judgejohnhodgman. We're also on TikTok and YouTube. That is at Judge John Hodgman pod. Follow and subscribe to see our full episodes on YouTube and lots of video only content. Do we have comments of the week this week, John?

Speaker 2:
[79:31] Yes, we do. In fact, we have two comments of the week from our most recent episode, Juggernaut Lest Ye Be Judged. That was the episode between Patty and Patty's mom Cordelia about how much X-Men talk should be allowed in the family home. Patty was pro X-Men talk. During the episode, we talked about how Patty has a prize comic book in his collection, which is X-Men number 101, the first appearance of Jean Grey as Phoenix that was also signed by Chris Claremont, the writer of that issue and so many legendary X-Men storylines. And we speculated as to what it might be worth. And then we looked it up, but we forgot to mention it on the show. So I will mention it now to answer Zaymans and Josh8685 based on a very unscientific poll of eBay asking prices. They're asking about $750 for X-Men 101. And it's selling for a little bit less, but that's the asking price. So that'll give you an idea. You may now stand down commenters, but please do keep those comments coming. And if we missed something in the episode, let us know. Any comment whatsoever really helps the audience discover the show, as does your going to Judge John Hodgman pod on YouTube, and hitting that subscribe, that bell, that like, that share, and that comment. Thank you for being there.

Speaker 1:
[80:54] Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorn and John Hodgman, this week's episode engineered at Utah Podcast Studio in West Jordan, Utah. Megan Rossotti runs our social media, the podcast edited by AJ McKeehan, our video editor, Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. All right, Swift Justice. The rake with a four on MaxFun subreddit says, I live with my parents, we're getting a bidet, but we're mildly split on which bathroom to put it in. You get mildly split by that bidet if the hose is strong enough.

Speaker 2:
[81:34] I live with my parents and we're getting a bidet, but we're mildly split on which bathroom to put it in.

Speaker 1:
[81:39] This is a big question. I've been thinking about getting a bidet for my house because I had one in my old house and I loved it. But the main bedroom's bathroom doesn't have electricity near the toilet and I want a warm one.

Speaker 2:
[81:57] A warm today or a warm toilet.

Speaker 1:
[81:59] Yeah. Then the public bathroom, the bathroom that is actually off our dining room, but it's the main bathroom on the main floor of the house. That has one of those gravity tanks where it's six feet off the ground.

Speaker 2:
[82:14] Oh yeah. A pull chain like old-timey?

Speaker 1:
[82:17] Exactly. Yeah. It was a Victorian house, sort of vaguely Victorian bathroom. I think we'd have to cut into the pipes to connect it there. It has really weird hookups.

Speaker 2:
[82:29] I'm going to say that I don't know exactly what the letter writers' dispute is. Maybe they live with their parents and they want it in their bathroom, or the parents want it in their bathroom, they can only afford one bidet or which bathroom to put it in. I'll say this, I think that your gravity tank is doing you a favor, Jesse.

Speaker 1:
[82:51] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[82:52] Because I believe that if you're going to choose one bathroom to put a bidet in, it should be the most private bathroom. A public first floor bathroom, we don't need people thinking about washing their butts in it. It's too intimate, it seems to me.

Speaker 1:
[83:09] Right.

Speaker 2:
[83:09] Put it in a private bathroom, upstairs. A bidet is an upstairs thing. Spring fever is here, it's sweeping at least the Northern Hemisphere. But I don't want to hear about spring cleaning this year. I don't even want to hear about your flowers. I don't want to hear about your April showers. I'm more interested in spring reading. What is on your bedside table? What is your book club disputing over reading? Are you going to read Stoner? Or are you going to read Lonesome Dove, the two most popular books on Book Talk right now? Do you think that the enemies to lovers trope in romance fiction is tired or can't get enough? Which Wuthering Heights adaptation do you like the best? The Bronte novel? I guess that's the original, the PBS miniseries starring Tom Hardy. The recent movie starring Margot Robbie, Robie Robbie, you know who I mean. The song by Kate Bush? I don't know. Which Wuthering Heights do you weather the most to? I want all your disputes about books and reading and let us know about them at maximumfun.org/jjho.

Speaker 1:
[84:12] And of course, we want your disputes on any subject at maximumfun.org/jjho. But look, the very last moments of this podcast, you listen through the whole credits. If you're not a member of Maximum Fun, please become one now at maximumfun.org/join. The MaxFunDrive ends on May 1st. So become a member at maximumfun.org/join.

Speaker 4:
[84:39] Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.