transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hey guys, you're listening to The PetaPixel Podcast, where we talk about all the latest news in the photographic industry and more. But if you're looking for expert advice, incredible selection, and the best deals on photographic equipment, video, lighting, and more, you go to B&H. B&H is PetaPixel's new gear partner. And for even greater savings at B&H, we recommend the B&H Payboo Credit Card, which lets you save the tax. You pay the tax, and B&H pays you back instantly. Save the tax on all eligible purchases shipped to eligible states. Or you can pay over time with our six and 12 month financing on minimum purchases of $199 for six months or $599 for 12 months. Terms apply, learn more at bhphoto.com/payboo. Credit card offers are always subject to credit approval. Payboo credit card accounts are issued by Comenity Capital Bank.

Speaker 2:
[00:50] What's this? It's another episode of The PetaPixel Podcast, where I, Jordan Drake, am joined by our host, Chris Niccolls. Hello. And PetaPixel's Editor-in-Chief, Jaron Schneider.

Speaker 3:
[01:03] Hello.

Speaker 2:
[01:05] But you might notice if you're watching this as opposed to listening to it, there's four boxes this week, because this is a fun one. We've got Emily Lowery, like the Seasoning Salt, better known as Micro Four Nerds as the YouTube channel, is joining us for a Micro Four Thirds talk. And we are excited for it. How's it going, Emily?

Speaker 4:
[01:25] Whoop, very happy to be here. Very happy to be a nerd. That's my job.

Speaker 3:
[01:30] Have you had the Seasoning Salt, by the way?

Speaker 2:
[01:31] Is Lowery's Seasoning Salt in the UK?

Speaker 1:
[01:34] I think it's just Canada.

Speaker 4:
[01:35] Yeah, it's not one I've heard.

Speaker 3:
[01:36] Oh, I have some in my pantry.

Speaker 2:
[01:38] Okay, so it's a North American brand. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[01:41] Yeah, my wife calls it Lowery's, even though I don't think that's how it's spelled.

Speaker 2:
[01:46] I gotta look into that now. Maybe I've been equating two things that are totally different, but that was the preferred spice when I was growing up.

Speaker 4:
[01:54] Right, it's the real issues. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[01:57] Well, we do have a lot to talk about because last time we spoke, NAB was just starting and all the news hadn't dropped yet. A bunch of cool new video stuff has happened in the last week that we can talk about. Gerald's not podcasting anymore. We can talk about that as well.

Speaker 3:
[02:12] No, not podcasting, reviewing.

Speaker 2:
[02:13] Not reviewing, not reviewing. I'm really good at this. And we wanna talk about Micro Four Thirds because I think we have some ideas on how we could save it, pull it from the abyss, because right now I feel like it's not a super popular format, but I think everyone in this room loves it. So we're gonna try and give Micro Four Thirds a little bit of love. It should be a fun one. But you know, I always like to kick this off with a question and I'm gonna do it in a different way. Everyone, we are gonna put our heads together and I want us to decide what is Chris's official word of 2026 because no one listens to Chris more than me, including his family. I listen to Chris talk all day while we're out shooting, then I go home and I edit Chris's voice talking and he has some words he loves. And I have a list of them and we're gonna pick, what is Chris's official word of 2026? Y'all ready for this?

Speaker 3:
[03:10] Yeah. What's that game show where we try and guess what the audience has answered questions to and they show up on the board?

Speaker 2:
[03:16] Is that Family Feud?

Speaker 3:
[03:18] Is it Family Feud? So for me, I'm gonna go with is interesting on the board?

Speaker 2:
[03:23] Okay. Interesting is not on the board. Any other ones you guys are thinking? How many- Chris, do you have any pitches?

Speaker 1:
[03:35] Emily's not listening to me every single day editing all my videos. I mean, where's the content? I don't know. Words that I say all the time?

Speaker 2:
[03:43] I can just give you the list and we can pick what we think is the defining word of 2026. All right. Words Chris loves to use. Endeavor. Peruse.

Speaker 3:
[03:57] Novel.

Speaker 2:
[03:59] Enthusiast. Astute. Or adroitly.

Speaker 3:
[04:06] No. See, he needs to use adroitly more. I like that word a lot.

Speaker 2:
[04:09] That's an excellent one.

Speaker 1:
[04:11] Okay, like these are just words. I mean, I don't think I use peruse like overly. I don't think that's a thing.

Speaker 2:
[04:22] Oh, when we peruse the website at the end of almost every episode, we got peruse in there.

Speaker 1:
[04:27] That's the peruse of the word. I feel like I use adroitly and with aplomb far more in my articles than in the videos.

Speaker 3:
[04:34] And not even that often in your articles.

Speaker 2:
[04:37] Aplomb you don't say out loud. You write it a lot, I've noticed.

Speaker 1:
[04:40] Yeah, I write a lot of adroitly. It wasn't a while. You know, it's a good word.

Speaker 3:
[04:43] It is a very good word.

Speaker 1:
[04:45] It is interesting. So it is interesting because when Jaron said the word interesting, I do say the word interesting a lot.

Speaker 3:
[04:53] Yes, you do.

Speaker 1:
[04:54] I don't mean it in a negative way, but I will often use it as like somebody will say something. And then I just use that as like my catch all response to it.

Speaker 2:
[05:02] Or you always tell me that's an interesting outfit. And I wasn't taking it as a compliment.

Speaker 3:
[05:08] Chris, it's also your transition word as you're like moving to another concept. I'm surprised you don't notice it, Jordan.

Speaker 1:
[05:15] I say 100% a lot. I say that being said a lot. I don't know. I think I'm just using, you know, Emily, as our UK, as our English person on this show, am I not just using English words? Yes, as a gatekeeper for your entire language, am I not just using words?

Speaker 4:
[05:34] Yeah, I think that sounds fine to me, you know, 100% novel and interesting.

Speaker 1:
[05:42] Yes. I mean, novels are work. You know, like we're in an industry where new things come out all the time. You're like, that's a novel. So, okay, Emily, what's your catchphrase? What's a word that you find that you are always using in your videos? Like, oh, I said it.

Speaker 4:
[05:53] Bloomin. Bloomin. I love Bloomin. Bloomin great. Bloomin wonderful. The two that I delete the most is I say, so at the beginning of every new thing, and then I have to say, so cool, all the time, all the time, just at the end of every paragraph. So yeah, Bloomin, so cool, and so.

Speaker 1:
[06:10] Yes, Bloomin is your catchphrase.

Speaker 2:
[06:11] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[06:12] Bloomin love it.

Speaker 1:
[06:15] Well, that's Bloomin wonderful.

Speaker 2:
[06:17] I'm going to pick adroitly as your word of 2026. There, we did it, and we can start the podcast.

Speaker 1:
[06:21] I will endeavor to use the word adroitly with a plum this year.

Speaker 4:
[06:26] Merch drop, merch drop, merch drop.

Speaker 3:
[06:31] Speaking of which, I'm wearing my BILF Hunter shirt today, and Jordan's wearing his hoodie, film on location cards. We have a few more weeks left of that drop with Harper Finch. You should go check it out. Chris is wearing just a standard Harper Finch shirt.

Speaker 1:
[06:46] I never wear the PetaPixel. I do, but I just not often.

Speaker 3:
[06:50] Not on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:51] Trying to show all the variety.

Speaker 3:
[06:53] Emily, just briefly, what are your thoughts on the concept of BILF Hunter?

Speaker 4:
[06:59] I'm new to this. I love Jordan's hoodie though. I want that. I need to film on location more because I am a coward. I film too much in here.

Speaker 2:
[07:07] I've seen you film on location. You were not at all cowardly in that moment in Norway, where we were just getting pelted by all the worst elements.

Speaker 4:
[07:15] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[07:18] Well, good. Well, link in the description below if anyone else wants to get those. And let's get started with the show.

Speaker 1:
[07:51] Emily, now that you're here with us, I want to teach you about Excire, because this is a really interesting product. So, Excire is AI, I know that's a bad word, but before you guys tune out, just stick with me, okay? Because AI can be absolutely terrible in our photography, but it can also be incredibly useful as an assistant, and that's what Excire is. It's a photo assistant that uses AI-powered tools. And it really does a great job of helping you search for things and helping you keep organized. So, for example, it can do things like, you can simply put in a prompt, you'll find photos that have keywords that match that. It's got advanced facial recognition, so if you've got people that you like to shoot a lot, or you can put in that prompt and find that person very easily through all of your stuff, it just saves you all the scrolling, all the endless searching. So organize your photos with automatic keywording. It also does things like help you select your best photos, like based on ratings, sharpness detection, like are people's eyes closed, that kind of stuff. So it can be really useful to an event photographer, wedding photographer, something like that. It's a time-saving tool box. It's going to make your life so much easier. It even has AI-powered video management as well. What I really like about Excire too is that the AI, it's never uploading anything to the cloud. So your data is safe. It's on your hard drive. Nothing's going to the Internet. Nothing's going to the cloud. None of that. So everything stays locally on your computer. And you also get it as a lifetime license. So you don't have to worry about any ongoing subscription fees. So Excire Photo 2025 is a standalone program. That works great alongside all of your essential editing programs. But if you want to have something even more integrated without losing too many of the features, you also have Excire Search, which is Excire Search 2026, the latest plug-in. This works with Lightroom Classic, plugs right in, and just integrates that with the workflow properly. But if you like other programs, just use Excire Photo 2025 and it's standalone. Big discount for everybody out there. PetaPixel is the discount code, 15% off a lifetime license. So yeah, check that out. Jordan, we've used this a little bit. It's fantastic if you want to put in a prompt, like find people at the beach enjoying themselves, relaxing or something, right? You can use this in a way to just easily find stuff.

Speaker 2:
[10:01] Yeah, I constantly am just hoping that I named the file appropriately, which I have done three times over the course of my career in photo and video. So yes, just being able to type in a description, a person, something like that, and find all the relevant files is a huge time saver. And yes, it's a hot discount as well. So you should definitely check out that trial, everyone, Emily included.

Speaker 4:
[10:26] You know, it sounds ideal to me. I have not organized enough.

Speaker 3:
[10:31] I have a friend I used to work with, his name is Simon. And few, like, I guess last year, he was like, man, I am struggling trying to get my photos organized on my computer. And at the time, I wasn't thinking about Excire. But he actually reached out again and we were talking. I was like, wait a minute, it sounds like this will work for you. And because he was already, he was trying to make a custom thing with like Claude AI trying to make it do it for him. And I'm like, I have a PetaPixel code for you to get a discount on Excire if you want to try it. And he responded with those exclamation points in the diagonal ones. Yeah, with a kind of an angle, it's like...

Speaker 2:
[11:08] Oh, those are fun exclamation marks.

Speaker 3:
[11:10] Yeah, so he got 15% off his purchase with our special discount code. Chris, what's that special discount code?

Speaker 1:
[11:18] You just have to type in PetaPixel, P-E-T-A-P-I-X-E-L. That's it.

Speaker 3:
[11:22] It's very simple.

Speaker 1:
[11:23] Can be easier.

Speaker 3:
[11:24] Yeah, straightforward.

Speaker 2:
[11:25] Look at us making life easier for all of those other photographers struggling out there. What a community service we do.

Speaker 1:
[11:32] Well, look, I mean, it is useful. Like if you shoot a lot like we do or an event photographer shooting a lot, but I mean, really anybody who's struggling where you have this huge backlog, I would have to search through my backlog right now by camera. I mean, that's how I divide everything. So if I do it the old-fashioned way, I've got to be like, what is that photo I'm trying to remember that I want? What camera did I shoot it on? What lens did I shoot on? Jordan will attest, I don't remember what I reviewed two weeks ago. So good luck trying to remember where was that? What was that? So if I could just type in, in the prompt, find me all the photos that have to do with this theme, or this idea, or this location. I'm pretty sure I was in Japan. Okay, all my photos Japan? That's pretty cool. So it's a very useful tool. It's not stealing any of your stuff. Your photos aren't going anywhere else. It's all local in your computer. It's just an assistant that can really help you out. I think that's where AI can be very useful and totally appropriate.

Speaker 4:
[12:31] Yes, make it do the boring stuff, not the creative stuff. That's what I said.

Speaker 1:
[12:34] Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3:
[12:36] What an emphatic yes. Thanks to Excire for sponsoring this episode of The PetaPixel Podcast. Let's get into the news of which there is a lot. We're going to start with one that I'm sure everyone listening is already aware happened. Gerald Undone is done reviewing cameras. He's still going to stay on YouTube, but he is pivoting. He states that essentially he's just not feeling what he's been doing for the last decade and wants to change things up. And you know what? I completely get it.

Speaker 2:
[13:06] Yeah. I mean, the alternative is someone keeps working on videos about things that don't interest them anymore and you can sense the sadness trickling out of your YouTube box at the viewers. I don't want that. No one wants that, right? So yeah, I mean, if he's not feeling it, I think it's a great decision. I mean, there will be definitely some consequences for us because I don't have Zyla. So sometimes I was like, you know what? I'm curious about those DR results there. Why don't I see what old Gerald is saying this week? That was useful. Absolutely. And yeah, we've seen him on press trips. He visited Calgary a while back. We've known him for a while. And yeah, good dude. I wish him absolutely nothing but the best. But the big thing, Emily and I have this in common. Gerald was the first person saying the iFootage monopod is the secret to success. And I was walking around with a Manfrotto monopod like a loser. He showed me the way and things have improved exponentially since I got something with them little locking feet. And yeah, the iFootage monopods rule. So big ups for that.

Speaker 4:
[14:13] Yeah, it is so good, that monopod. And I do really empathize with Gerald to be fair, because he does very, very technical reviews. And that's the bit, I don't know about you guys, but that's the bit that I personally find the hardest.

Speaker 2:
[14:26] Like, I would like to be out.

Speaker 4:
[14:28] Yeah, I'd rather be out taking photographs and being creative. So I do empathize with him 100%.

Speaker 1:
[14:34] Yeah, we've been, well, I don't know about Jordan, but I've certainly been through periods where I have felt not creatively fulfilled doing the job that we were doing. And that's hard. I mean, it's really tough. It makes it hard to even want to get out and touch a camera. And so that's changed drastically since I've been with PetaPixel, which is great. I mean, I'm having more fun than ever. So I guess I'm in that sort of an opposite transition I appeared with Gerald, but I know where he's coming from. And it can be very difficult. And that does bring up an interesting question about technical information. Like we definitely try to do a balance. I know that like Jordan is definitely more technically minded. I'm not so much concerned about the technicalities as much. I mean, I am, but like it's a good dynamic that we have because we balance each other that way. But yeah, there's sort of this talk right now in the industry that cameras have gotten as good as they need to get and they don't need to get any better. And I mean, I do get that. I do get the sort of idea of things are plateauing and we have amazing tools now. Like as far as technical performance goes, do they need to get better even if they will, right? Yes. Yeah, you know, sure. And I think it's important to talk about the technical, but I get it. I definitely want to transition more to talk about the creative. I'm actually more excited about the industry now because the cameras are getting so good so that we can work less on understanding the technical differences and really look at cameras more as what they do for the photographer and how they maybe improve your creativity, if at all. And I think that's definitely a direction that I want to go. And so I get what he's saying. I wouldn't want to talk about specs and technicalities for the rest of my life either. And I'm happy that the industry is maybe slowing down in that regard. We'll see if that's true or not. But I get it. And I'm totally for being more creative and finding work that's more fulfilling. And I want to review these tools more as the tools that let us take the final product as opposed to the science behind it. So at least for me, that's where I'm coming from.

Speaker 2:
[16:42] I think it's really interesting as well. I don't know how people who are solo creators do it, because our entire career, like we were at a camera store with lots of people, then we were at DP Review with plenty of staff that we were interacting with all the time. Now, I mean, there is constantly a very active text message chain between Jaron, Chris and myself going off at all hours, frankly. But we've always had that. And I do wonder how people who like you, Emily, you know, you're doing a lot of the production and everything yourself. Like I could see how after a while that could be almost exhausting. Like he went and did a series where he was checking out studios of other creators. And I think a lot of that is just a desire to engage with other people. Like, how do you keep things? Because one thing I love about your channel is you're like excited and you're like, this is cool when you get new products in. Like, how do you maintain that? I'm curious.

Speaker 4:
[17:35] So I think for me, like, it's very true, like what we've been talking about. I do think cameras have been very good for a very long time. So now it comes down to the more exciting things of how it feels and how it makes me feel and what you can do with it and how it inspires you. And I think that's just a much more innately fun thing to talk about. It means I can get out of this room sometimes and go for a photo walk, which is, you know, I think getting out and not getting bogged down in the specs is what keeps me interested in it for sure.

Speaker 3:
[18:05] I wanted to read a comment from Tony Northrup on our article about this, just because I think it's interesting. I agree that the features they improve with new cameras are features that don't need any further improvement. AF is fine, readout speed is fine, FPS is more than enough, and thus creating reviews has gotten really boring. But there is so much room for improvement in other areas, usability, connectivity, security. Hell, most photographers are shooting vertical for Instagram, and yet every camera is designed to be used primarily horizontally, but nobody has addressed this simple orientation issue. If you see a person pick up a camera for the first time, it's a frustrating, counterintuitive process, and most of them just give up rather than fight through it. All cameras are deeply flawed. I will say one correction, Tony, there is one company that did do it the other way, and it's YOLO.

Speaker 2:
[18:53] X-Half.

Speaker 3:
[18:54] I was going to say, no, well, that's true. The YOLO live company, Jordan, the one with the lens. By the way, I did secure you a YOLO lens, and the new Micro Four Thirds lens, and the YOLO cam that comes with it. At any rate, I believe their YOLO cam is designed to be vertical.

Speaker 2:
[19:12] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[19:13] But that doesn't count, I guess.

Speaker 1:
[19:14] I know we're talking about this quite a bit, but I think it's an important conversation to have. For me personally, I don't find it depressing. I don't find it boring. We're using, and you know, the same way too, we're using new products every week, right? All the time. And I find that kind of, I used to at first find it frustrating. I find it now kind of liberating in a way. Just be able to pick up whatever and take shots with it, and kind of have a different experience with it. So, I don't find reviewing cameras boring. And as I say, I like that the tech is not, doesn't necessarily have to be forefront anymore. And I want to transition more to that. But at the same time, cameras are fun tools. I think usability is a big part of it. I agree with Tony on that. There's a lot to talk about with that and help people find if they might find that same platform useful for them. But I mean, I've got like 20 fishing rods here. And fishing rods have not changed technology wise in a long, long time, but it's still about feel and it's about look and it's about design and it's about application. And so, and I think we could find the same analog with a lot of other products too, right? Like I don't find it boring. I don't think it's like a downer or something depressing. I could see how someone might burn out, but I going forward, I'm very optimistic. And so I know a lot of people even on the comments in the channel are like, I hope Chris still wants to keep doing what he's doing. And I'm like, yes, absolutely emphatically. I enjoy it and I'm not burned out. And I love what I'm doing more than I've ever done before.

Speaker 3:
[20:42] And for what it's worth, Chris is asking me for more opportunities to shoot more things for what it's worth. So he likes it.

Speaker 2:
[20:50] All fishing.

Speaker 1:
[20:52] But you know what? Also Jordan and I have had each other. That's a huge thing. And also we've always had each other. We've always had each other. That's a huge thing. And also we've always endeavored to get out of the office and shoot on location, right? Because we're brave. We're not cowards. And I think that is super important for why we haven't burned out, to be honest. I agree.

Speaker 3:
[21:16] OK. Let's move on. You've got a Leica right next to you. So this is a nice visual. Leica is partnering with sensor fabrication company Gpixel to make its next generation image sensor. So this will be the first time since the Tower Jazz era, which even then, like, I don't think we saw that. I think we saw some maybe some Nikons on it, but like maybe the D800 series, maybe some of them. No, I don't know. It was very cryptic. We're going to see how a sensor renders a scene that isn't made by Canon or Sony, probably by like next year.

Speaker 4:
[21:56] Exciting. I think that's so cool, because I think I shoot a lot of Panasonic cameras, obviously, and the first thing in the comments that I get is like, oh, it's very similar to this Panasonic, but it's three times as much price. I think having its own proprietary sensor technology will make it stand out and won't be easily replicated for sure.

Speaker 1:
[22:16] That's a very good point.

Speaker 3:
[22:18] Yeah, I've heard complaints, like Leica files will say that the M10 has just got that juice that the M11 doesn't have, because it was a bespoke sensor that Leica was working on, and the M11 is just Sony sensor. I don't know if I put any credence in that, but I know that's what people say, and I'm thinking Leica is like, well, I mean, if the Leica files are sitting in, we could probably sell more cameras to make our own sensor.

Speaker 2:
[22:41] Yeah, we'll shut them up about the M10R finally, right?

Speaker 1:
[22:45] Yeah, Leica is a bit all over the place though with this, because this is not new for them, right? I mean, they've experimented with different companies making different sensors, even back to like the M240 and stuff, right?

Speaker 2:
[22:56] M9, where they're degrading?

Speaker 1:
[22:58] Yeah, well, you know, I love the M11, and I like the Sony sensor in it. I'm with you and Jaron. I don't think it really, I don't want to say it doesn't play a part. Obviously, it does, but I think the magic for Leica is far more in their color profiling, the lenses, you know, that kind of thing. And even then, the Leica mount has opened up so wide now. I mean, I got Thypoch 50 mil on here, and you know, like there's so many other brands to try on them that even that doesn't really matter anymore. So, I don't know, if they want to play with it, Gpixel is a big Chinese company. That to me is interesting that we've got this company that's now going to possibly have some full-frame sensors on the market that are in a major European or North American manufacturers product. I mean, that's kind of cool. But yeah, we'll see if it's, but it's not new for Leica. And I'm not surprised, it's not new for them. They seem to switch sensors every two generations.

Speaker 2:
[23:48] Everyone, what would they have to do to make you like stand up and pay attention? They're like, this new sensor, the differentiator is blank. You know, what could they possibly, without developing, of course, some brand new type of technology or something, what's something they could feasibly do right now to set themselves apart? You think?

Speaker 1:
[24:06] Yeah. I mean, like, the thing I love about the M11 is what do I really need beyond this? It's a great sensor. Like, it's a great sensor. It takes beautiful photos. The dynamic range is awesome. The black and white tonality is great. So, yeah, it's like, what would really, what magic would have to come out of it to really make it stand out?

Speaker 4:
[24:24] Yeah, it's always been good. And the color science is what makes it stand out. The lenses, as you say, you know, so, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[24:32] I don't know. I don't know what I want. I think my brain says, well, what if they could just display more color, richer color range? That's something we do when I was reviewing televisions. We're like, how many colors can this really display? And how well and accurate are each of those colors? And how many can it display at one time? I'm wondering, like, I don't know if this is even possible because it's the bit depth, right, that we have to look at. And we're, what, are we at 14 or 16 now? It's just like, how many more bits?

Speaker 4:
[25:04] All of them.

Speaker 1:
[25:05] Yeah, all of them. It's funny, and I think Leica is a good example, though, of when you take a look at the end result that a lot of creators are doing that use Leica, right, a lot of street photographers and stuff, they're stylizing their photos pretty heavily. So it's like, if they're shooting black and white, they're crushing the blacks every time, right, which I do too on a lot of mine. So it's like, do we even really care if I'm just going to black up the shadows and, you know, like, we have too much dynamic range? For color, they're often using stylized things, you know, orange and teal fixes or desaturated vintage looks. And so a lot of this is kind of going by the wayside as far as color science and dynamic range goes. Or you see a lot of Leica photography where it's like very stark and flat, low contrast, like again, it's like where, who's really blown us away with vivid colors out of a Leica? And I know there's exceptions, but I'm just saying, like with the prevalence now of presets being used, a lot of people are purposely throwing stuff away, not clamoring for more, if that seems, does that seem fair?

Speaker 2:
[26:09] Yeah. I mean, I think to me, it's a marketing thing is just like, because there's been so many, like Emily said, like this is just a Panasonic camera. If they have a unique sensor in that, then that kills or like when the what was it called? The MEV1 came out. Everyone's like, well, just slap an adapted lens on a Sony and you'll get the same image quality out of the RAWs. And it's like, no, if you can say, you are getting something different, even if it's not usefully dramatically different, then they do have something setting themselves apart. So I think that's part of the motivation for this as well.

Speaker 1:
[26:43] But it would also have to be in the sensor. You know, I just want to do a tangent if I can really quickly. But speaking of almost killing like us. So I dropped this out of the car the other day, which is really scary.

Speaker 2:
[26:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:55] It slid out of the door. Yeah, Jaron, I'm sorry. No, it like fell out and it landed on the back right on the screen like this on concrete. So this is just a besides the point story. So our friend Hugh Brownstone, him and his business partner make grips under the Helium brand and he sent us one. And it really helps because you get this grip. And I just want to give Hugh a shout out because, I mean, first off, the grip is great. I like having it. It's got the dovetail on the bottom. I can still access all of my stuff here. It's lightweight, but sorry?

Speaker 3:
[27:25] It doesn't look broken.

Speaker 1:
[27:26] It doesn't look broken. Yeah. Look at the back screen. It's fine. It didn't even like ding up this corner that I thought. The Helium actually took it all. It's designed in a way where, at least landing flat, it didn't actually let anything touch the screen at all. So the luminums dinged up on the Helium now, but that's great. That's where I'd want it. And the camera is pristine. So I just want to give a shout out on that story. Proof of concept. This grip didn't just help the ergonomics, it actually saved the camera. And it's got an air tag in there too. So if I lose the camera, I'll find it. And Jaron's gonna lose his mind.

Speaker 3:
[27:57] Emily, like, I've never, never, ever dropped a camera or a lens in my entire career. I, and I'm not babying my gear, but I feel like I'm just careful. These two, these two cannot be trusted to keep something from breaking. They are, they are not easy on, like to say that they're hard on gear is, I don't really feel like encompasses the whole, the whole of the truth. How are you with gear?

Speaker 4:
[28:32] So I, I, I despise lens hoods and lens caps, which is very controversial, but I'm just, I just want to get a camera out of my bag and just be able to shoot. So some of the front elements of my lenses are not in the best shape. The only camera that I have legitimately dropped and broke and I feel terrible for it is when I had a pre-production version of the Sigma BF of all cameras.

Speaker 1:
[28:54] Oh no.

Speaker 4:
[28:56] Yeah. I, I, yeah, that was not my proudest moment. But yeah, if I'm ever going to drop one, it's got to be the most expensive proprietary one that they can only make six a day of, right?

Speaker 3:
[29:07] Look, if it makes you feel any better, Kazudo-san dropped his too.

Speaker 1:
[29:10] But I mean, the BF is, the BF is designed to be so pretty, I would feel bad about dropping that because I feel like if you drop that and damage it, it really, it really hammers it. But Leica's, I mean, if you've been on these press trips, you've seen the Leica peeps that are shooting, their cameras are beat all to hell. And I feel like almost that's kind of a badge of honor with these expensive cameras, maybe not a Safari or something like that, okay? But like all the other, like beat them up. I think it's great. What I don't want is a cracked screen. And so the Helium did a great job protecting that. So anyways, I'm really, I'm really happy with the product, but yeah, beat them up. Don't worry about Jaron. Don't worry about Jaron. Just adding a little bit of character.

Speaker 4:
[29:49] Character? Yeah. Some of them are designed to just like, like the brass topped ones are designed to just like age better. So yeah, go for it. Just don't break the screen.

Speaker 1:
[29:59] But Sigma BFs, you got to, you got to baby that. Oh, man.

Speaker 4:
[30:03] It was so hard to hold. And because it's only got one sort of wrist strap, I'd usually have it on a neck strap. So I'm going to blame the design of it and not my own stupidity, even though it was entirely my fault.

Speaker 3:
[30:12] All right. Let's move on and talk about the first of two Insta360 stories we'll be going today. This is the second one for last, but here we go. Insta360 has been very weird about this, how they've quote announced but also not announced that the Luna, which is their competitor to the Osmo Pocket from DJI, is a thing. Here's what's very confusing and angering for me. It doesn't make any sense. They have them behind frosted glass boxes at NAB, so you're not supposed to know exactly what they look like, but simultaneously, content creators they've specifically partnered with have just shown it. So holding it, taking it out of the case, turning it on, clearly we know what it looks like. So I don't know why they did it this way, but okay. Anyway, it's a dual camera Osmo. Basically, this is going to compete with we think DJI is going to announce a dual lens one as well. There's been a lot of leaks on that online. So they're going to have two versions of this thing too. We haven't seen there's like a smaller one. It's probably just got a single camera. So they're going head to head with DJI here. We don't know really any hard specs on this thing. That's I guess the part where they haven't announced it yet. But what do you guys think? Do you care?

Speaker 2:
[31:37] I kind of do. If you're American, you should care. Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[31:41] True, true. Yeah, it only be like actually being available in America, I assume, is going to be a really good selling point. But the thing that I've been waiting for for so long for Insta360 is 10-bit video. Because the Ace Pro 2 I love, but sometimes the skin tones are a little bit off. And the 8-bit video means you can't quite color grade it as much as you would like. So I want to see Insta360's version of that. And I'm quite excited to see what that looks like.

Speaker 1:
[32:08] Yeah. I'm a little upset by this post, because I'm sure that David Manning is a very nice person. In fact, I've probably met him at some point. I'm sure he's lovely. But he's trying to steal my hair. My hairstyle. Like...

Speaker 2:
[32:23] Jaron, can you throw this on screen for our viewers, just like a shot of this hair?

Speaker 1:
[32:28] You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[32:29] I'd appreciate that.

Speaker 1:
[32:31] He's starting to maybe look like me like 30 years ago, 20 years ago. I don't know, man. Anyways.

Speaker 2:
[32:36] It's a whole new generation.

Speaker 1:
[32:39] I trademarked it.

Speaker 2:
[32:41] So a couple of things, I think hopefully 2026 is the year where we get rid of 8-bit log forever. Never have to work with it. But also, I still haven't got my hands on a Pocket 4 yet. But Emily, you have. So what do you think of it? And are there things that you think they could still improve that Insta360 could have a real leg up to make their product more compelling than DJI? Or is it just an alternative that might be a little less expensive?

Speaker 4:
[33:12] I think it's a good incremental update. And the thing that really like I really like living in the UK, which is dull most of the time and not conducive to these action bright sort of shots that you see on all the press stuff. The color grading on the older log profile on the Pocket 3 sometimes used to be washed out. The skin tones were a little bit...

Speaker 2:
[33:34] Wax face.

Speaker 4:
[33:35] I've been wrangling it within an inch of its life. And I'm so happy to say that the new stuff in the Pocket 4 is so much easier to grade. You've got so much more push and pull. And it's the first camera in a very long while where the slow motion, the 240p, actually looks good and not mushy. Because I think, you know, they stick that spec in loads of cameras and then it just doesn't work in actuality. But it really does on this.

Speaker 3:
[34:00] That's good to know. For what it's worth, it's not like we're not getting a Pocket 4. There's just been some shipping issues in Canada and we're trying to work them out. And they're very apologetic.

Speaker 2:
[34:11] Which are causing me to spiral right now. Because one of my, I've said it on the pod many times, one of my great regrets is we never reviewed the Pocket 3, which turned out to be one of the most popular cameras of all time. I'm like, I'm not letting that happen again. And now as every day trickles by and whatever video I produce becomes less and less relevant moving forward into the future, I'm still, I'm hanging on. I am going to make Pocket 4 content when this damn thing actually arrives. I promise you all.

Speaker 1:
[34:39] But this is exciting for Osmo, sorry, not for Osmo, sorry, for Insta360. Because, you know, DJI, obviously, we can get them in Canada. Emily can get them in the UK. Jaron cannot get them in America, right? So it's like, I believe Insta360 is still available. Hey, have they shut that down yet, Jaron? Nope. Or can you still get Insta360?

Speaker 3:
[34:57] You can still get Insta360 and anti-gravity. Both of those are still allowed.

Speaker 1:
[35:01] There's this market and this sort of black hole that's been left behind that hopefully other companies can fill with good content.

Speaker 3:
[35:07] I am sure Insta360 is salivating at the prospect of just owning North America. Well, United States.

Speaker 2:
[35:14] One part of it, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:16] In fact, I mean, that's part of our story, right? Is DJI Osmo Pocket is not available in the US and might not ever be.

Speaker 3:
[35:22] Yep. It was not approved by the FCC for sale. All electronics have to be and it's not been that. So this is the first product from DJI that is effectively not coming. Previously, they were saying it was not officially available through DJI's online store, but then you'd go over to B&H and Adorama and it would be right there, easy to get. Not this time, because this product can't be imported into the United States at all. So, I don't know, man, it stinks, but yeah, Insta360 is positioned to take advantage of it.

Speaker 2:
[35:58] We've already had some American creators reaching out saying, could you guys please be Pocket Mules for us going into the future? And if anyone from border security is listening, no, we will not absolutely be doing that. So, any pockets I bring will be for me alone.

Speaker 1:
[36:16] For less than $1,500 US a unit anyways, yes.

Speaker 3:
[36:22] All right, so last week, I was wrong about this. We were guessing how much the Mission 1 series from GoPro would cost. Emily, I mean, you've seen the price. Did you think that this was what you were expecting or were you expecting it to be more? So for what it's worth, 600 bucks is where it's starting.

Speaker 4:
[36:43] I mean, I'm going to be buying the Micro Four Thirds!1 anyway for my sins.

Speaker 3:
[36:49] But it's not even that much more. I believe that one is $700, which is still less than what Chris and Jordan were guessing.

Speaker 4:
[36:59] Yeah, I think it's got to do something significantly better than the DJI equivalents maybe for those price points. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[37:09] Yeah, just in terms of specs, it looks like they're getting pretty close to it. But I want to address something that we didn't talk about last week when these are announced. People at NAB have played with these and they have a dumb adapter on them. It is not an active Micro Four Thirds!1 mount.

Speaker 1:
[37:27] I wanted to say last week, that was my guess. I looked at it and I was like, there's no contacts. I don't think that they have electrical connectivity. And yeah, they don't, which really sucks.

Speaker 4:
[37:37] So it's manual focus only. So you'd have to get the third party lenses. And then is it a 2.7 times crop with the one inch sensor?

Speaker 2:
[37:45] It'll be less because it's natively four thirds. So it'll be like a 2.5, 2.4, but still a crop factor for sure.

Speaker 1:
[37:53] No image stabilization, right? Like, I don't know, man.

Speaker 4:
[37:58] It reminds me of the Z cam, but even that had autofocus.

Speaker 1:
[38:03] Yeah, obviously for video work, it's going to be better. It kind of turns me off at yet think, because I was kind of like last year was like, oh, it might be a neat little pocket camera to play with photographically. My joy level has dropped way down on that photographically, so I'm not really interested.

Speaker 3:
[38:19] But I'm only really seeing it viable for like, if you're going to mount it inside of a car, but you want like high end optics, you can just manual focus what you want. And anamorphic, those are the two major things. And big tele's. Big tele's as well.

Speaker 2:
[38:34] Big tele's with manual focus. I mean, again, that kind of limits its availability for just having an unmanned camera setting off on the side. Worth pointing out, our buddy Alex Mitchell said, I'm still sitting on a bunch of old school manual focus Vazen, or Vagra lenses, if you guys want to play with those. Yeah. So it could be workable. But again, not excited. I was really hoping to drop a bunch of tiny little auto-focus Micro Four Thirds lenses on this. It's not going to save Micro Four Thirds.

Speaker 4:
[39:06] Cut it down.

Speaker 3:
[39:08] All right. Moving right along. I added this one to the board as we were talking because Jeremy just published our coverage of it. We have finally some real information from Thypoch about their auto-focus lens, the 24-50mm F28. It is coming next month. It will cost $700, and it is the first of six autofocus lenses they intend to release this year. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[39:31] That's a really good price.

Speaker 3:
[39:33] Yeah. If you go on the website, you can see a bunch of pictures we got on there. Dima took these for us. Dima, who's at NAB right now. Dima, if anyone who's listening to this, he was one of our camera crew operators in the Alaska documentary. We'll be working with Dima more soon. I'll have more to share on that later. At any rate, he was there, got a bunch of stuff for us. You can get a good look at this lens. And he was talking with Thypoch about it. And they said that the next one that they probably will announce will be a 24-70. And they are very much into the autofocus zoom lenses because they see that as an area of demand, is what they said, not necessarily the primes.

Speaker 1:
[40:12] I'm eager to play with them and see if they're worth it. But yeah, interesting, very interesting.

Speaker 2:
[40:17] When this was announced, we said they had to really undercut the Sony 24-50 to make this viable. And they did that. So if this is good, it's totally viable.

Speaker 1:
[40:27] And it should be pretty hot. Yeah, undercuts the Panasonic, too, by quite a bit. So yeah.

Speaker 3:
[40:34] He said that the autofocus feels normal, like he didn't notice any issues with it. So yeah, cool, awesome. I like the little gold circle thing on there. That's kind of neat. I like the little badge. It's cool.

Speaker 1:
[40:47] I'm curious about the Epoch coatings because I don't know if that's just gonna be their catchphrase for all of their multi-codings going forward because as I understood it on the Casano lenses that we played with, it really does give you like old school flair and I liked it. But I don't know if that's appropriate for Zoom lens. I'm not sure if that's gonna be the same case there or if this is just, they're just gonna call everything Epoch coatings, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2:
[41:09] We'll find out.

Speaker 3:
[41:11] Moving right along, Viltrox announced two new Evo Primes, Evo Series, which is their lower end series, more affordable Primes, a 35-1.8 and a 55-1.8, and they promised to be really well corrected. That's all I got.

Speaker 1:
[41:26] Cool.

Speaker 3:
[41:28] Cool. All right.

Speaker 1:
[41:29] Like their lenses? I'm eager to play with them. We'll see. Yeah. One of them more than the other. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[41:34] We are probably also going to get a new 35mm lab lens, and it looks like they ditched the LCD on the top that you don't like, Chris. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[41:43] And more importantly, the aperture ring that was totally inconsistent. Hopefully, that is also a thing of the past. It was odd that you'd have to go down a class to get nice aperture rings on those. The one thing I do want to point out is a 55mm f1.8. That should bring up some memories for a lot of people because whenever we talk about, like we just did one about the best lenses for every mount, bunch of people said the Sony Zeiss 55mm 1.8, which was one of the first E-mount lenses, and all of those people are remembering it badly. Yes, that lens was sharp, but it had terrible flare. It was coked, coked, coated in LOCA, not good. So I'm hoping they can just say like, you know what? This new Viltrox here is very comparable to that Sony Zeiss, which I would attest is not actually that good after all. I think some people are misremembering that, but that's my take, that's my take.

Speaker 1:
[42:38] I disagree, I don't disagree with you. You're right, it had issues, but the reason was that you could also buy the Sony 50mm 1.8, which a lot of people were buying and it was dirt cheap. And the new 55 Zeiss was clearly better sharpness wise. And so I, but it was, and it was so expensive. Like it's not a good lens. I agree with you, Jordan, it's not a good lens, but I wrote a lot of people moved up to it because Sony didn't offer anything back in the dark ages of early Sony.

Speaker 2:
[43:05] But now there's lots of good 50s. So everyone stopped talking about the old 55-18. It wasn't actually that good.

Speaker 1:
[43:11] Yeah, it was sharp.

Speaker 2:
[43:13] Get this one instead.

Speaker 3:
[43:15] Blasting through these new stories because there were so many. We've got another one. Nikon dropped a teaser for the impending arrival of its Z Cinema lenses. And we learned a few scant details from this very short video. And that's, they'll have autofocus and there's going to be more than one of them. That's really all they shared. You can kind of get an idea of what they look like. I'm looking at the silhouettes and they don't appear to have changed all that much from the ones we got last year at IBC, which is all we got was just a picture. At least this time we're seeing a little bit more. But yeah, I don't know. It seems like we're closing in on when they might actually release these. Maybe IBC this year? Maybe? I don't know. What do you think, Jordan?

Speaker 2:
[44:00] I mean, I think that's likely. Are you going to go to IBC only? Because NAB is quite a ways off, but you're going to swing down there?

Speaker 3:
[44:07] Oh no.

Speaker 4:
[44:08] I know.

Speaker 3:
[44:08] Oh, Emily.

Speaker 4:
[44:11] No.

Speaker 3:
[44:11] Have you ever been?

Speaker 4:
[44:12] I should. I've never been to any of these big shows, and I get all the emails leading up to it with the brands like, come to the stall, come do this, we'll get you there. And I'm just like, I always have too much to do as a one woman band. But yeah, I should. I definitely should at some point for sure.

Speaker 3:
[44:29] IBC is a fun show. It's just very, it's very segmented because of where they, at least where they put it on last year. Every one of those halls is like very much off on its own from the other halls. And it's super easy to get lost. And there's no easy access to good food because you're kind of stuck in there. Yeah, I know it was, it was fine. I liked the, the one thing that is the benefit of that is each of those halls feels kind of intimate, which is nice. It's not just a giant cavernous echo chamber, but it's definitely different than Vegas, for sure.

Speaker 1:
[45:07] Try to go to build next year, Emily, that'll be fine.

Speaker 4:
[45:09] Where is that one based?

Speaker 1:
[45:11] New York City. It's the B&H photo show. And yeah, I think you'd enjoy it.

Speaker 2:
[45:18] In terms of these lenses, I think it's worth pointing out like Canon brought out their VCM series, which is a very similar idea to this kind of hybrid photo-video lenses. But I really like that the Nikons look like they're geared from the ground up, which I think was a real drawback to the Canon ones. Literally. They're literally geared. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[45:38] Do you get it? Because there's gears on them?

Speaker 4:
[45:41] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[45:41] They're geared. You can follow focus on directly. Is that what we're talking about?

Speaker 4:
[45:48] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[45:49] He's missing it, Jordan. It's okay.

Speaker 3:
[45:50] Don't worry about it. Go keep going, Jordan.

Speaker 4:
[45:52] All right.

Speaker 2:
[45:54] Anyways, the other thing is we've already seen a zoom lens from their Cine series. So that gives us some good idea. Take a look at the 28-135. That gives us an idea of what might be coming from these prime lenses. And I really love that lens. So fingers crossed.

Speaker 3:
[46:09] Another thing for you, Jordan, Sennheiser announced the HD 40 Pro headphones. And the only reason I'm talking about this right now is just really quickly. Jordan likes Sennheiser's closed back headphones. But I was talking with the team and we recognize that there's been sort of a loss in outlets covering headphones for the use of what we do, editing and in the field. So it is my intention to expand our coverage into headphones. I have experience editing or rewriting and reviewing headphones. And I'm going to teach my team how to do it. So you should expect to hear more, get it, because it's headphones, from us on headphones in the future. We will be looking to review these and let you know if they're any good. I will do my best to explain what we're going for when it comes to headphones, because all of us use them. And we're going to do both ear buds and headphones for the purposes of working professionals, because we all buy them. So there you go.

Speaker 1:
[47:05] Do you want these, Jordan?

Speaker 2:
[47:07] Yeah, well, I mean, the reason I'm excited is we've used 280s in the field for years. That's kind of my classic in the field monitoring headphones. When I play drums, I'm using Sennheiser 380s. I got a set of electric drums here, which have been great. I'm pretty hard on headphones and these have been holding up. So I'm very curious about these new 480s. I'm going to use them in the field. I'm going to play some drums with them and I'd love to give some feedback because I've been using them a lot. The direct competition are the Sony 7506s and I broke my pair. So I might have to try and track some down, maybe borrow some from Alex and do some side by side comparisons there.

Speaker 1:
[47:44] If he's willing to let you borrow them, we'll see.

Speaker 2:
[47:48] Emily, what are your location headphones? I got to know.

Speaker 4:
[47:51] Oh, I am just an absolute shambles. I just stick in some wired earbuds and pray to the audio gods. I've upgraded to 32-bit float now, so I feel like I'm somewhat covered. I didn't know you played the drums. I played the drums. I've got an electric kit.

Speaker 2:
[48:09] Drum off. What's your kit? What are you playing?

Speaker 4:
[48:12] I've got the Alesis Pro, something or other, the big red one. It's gorgeous. It got me through lockdown, kept me sane.

Speaker 2:
[48:22] I got some TD-11s. Yeah, that's true. There are a lot. Gerald, also a drummer and guitar player.

Speaker 3:
[48:29] Wow. I'm also a drummer.

Speaker 1:
[48:32] Isn't he a drummer as well?

Speaker 2:
[48:33] Matt Johnson was also a drummer.

Speaker 3:
[48:35] Wow.

Speaker 2:
[48:37] We should get a Blue Man group kind of setup. All the YouTube camera reviewers.

Speaker 1:
[48:41] There's a whole bunch. It's weird.

Speaker 3:
[48:43] It's very weird.

Speaker 1:
[48:44] It's strange.

Speaker 2:
[48:45] I'm sorry. We're all going to have to shave our heads and paint ourselves blue, but, oh man, we'll get some clicky clucks.

Speaker 1:
[48:51] Is it a violence thing? Is it just like, because I don't really consider myself a photo nerd, but, you know, like, is it like a, I don't know, an aggression or a photo?

Speaker 2:
[49:00] Yeah. If I have a tough day, I absolutely will just be like, I'm going to go whack some stuff and then I don't have to take it out on friends and family, which I think is good.

Speaker 4:
[49:10] Yeah, it's very much a flow state, I think. So your brain's just you've just got to be in the moment. Yeah, and then it just yeah, it's a really good way to unwind, I think for sure.

Speaker 3:
[49:20] I don't know. I just like the large instruments. I also played like the piano. The only one I didn't pick up was like the xylophone.

Speaker 4:
[49:25] Nice.

Speaker 3:
[49:26] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[49:27] You got to get on the tuba. You got to get all the big instruments.

Speaker 3:
[49:30] That's not big enough. It's got to be so large that it requires more than one person to lift it.

Speaker 1:
[49:34] Church organ. Yeah, church organ.

Speaker 3:
[49:35] Church organ.

Speaker 2:
[49:36] Or he plays cattle drums.

Speaker 1:
[49:37] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[49:38] All right. We're going to transition to the main story, which is kind of linked to this last news story.

Speaker 1:
[49:43] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[49:44] And that it's Insta360, this is the second one I promised, looks like it's making a Micro Four Thirds camera, and Chris couldn't be more excited about this, right?

Speaker 1:
[49:52] No, I actually, I could be way more excited, but I want to talk about this. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[49:57] Okay. I mean, okay, so looking at it, to me, it's giving Sony, or not Sony, Samsung, early Samsung kind of vibes.

Speaker 1:
[50:12] But it's also given Sony A6000 vibes, like it doesn't look very sexy, compact, great, but I can, you can't see the back, but I know it doesn't have an EVF. I can just smell it. I can smell it through the screen that this does not have an EVF. And so it's just like another, it's just another micro, it doesn't, you can see the back, it doesn't have an EVF. It's just another Micro Four Thirds, plasticky, I don't know. It does not get me going at all. No, not excited one bit.

Speaker 4:
[50:43] I'm excited just because it's a new Micro Four Thirds camera.

Speaker 2:
[50:47] Yeah, but again, you have a disease.

Speaker 1:
[50:50] Exactly.

Speaker 4:
[50:52] Yeah, I do have a disease. One thing I do love about Insta360 is, I think the software is pretty good. I think slow motion is pretty good. It's quite user friendly. It might be a nice transition camera from someone going from the other action cameras to get indoctrinated in the Micro Four Thirds E-Cron system. But yeah, I looked at it and it looks just like my Sony A5000.

Speaker 1:
[51:17] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[51:18] But probably without a mechanical shutter. But I hope, I have hope. It's slim pickings. I've got to have hope.

Speaker 1:
[51:26] No, I don't know if it even has a back dial. I think that, and we're going to go into the story here, I think pretty soon because my big problem with a lot of companies' approaches to Micro Four Thirds is that they're using it as like a gateway drug for smartphone users. A lot of manufacturers are doing this whole like, oh, we need to help smartphone users transition into real photography. And the Kyra kind of really tried to do that too. I'm just like, I don't buy it. I think Micro Four Thirds is beautiful when you make it a premium, compact, go anywhere camera for real users. And that's being ignored and I don't know why. Everybody wants to treat them as like, oh, it's like this cool toy with interchangeable lenses. I mean, fine, but we have the market saturated with that crap. So I really want to see now, where are the like, interesting, beautiful, stylish, but also incredibly tiny cameras that I think would have even more appeal on the market. I mean, I feel like people treat smartphone users, which is pretty much all of us, like they're dumb or that they need like a real helping hand to come into the industry. And I don't think that's the case. I think they have a passion. They love photography or else they wouldn't be looking at cameras. And now they really want to dive in. Let them dive in. Give them a bit of a deep end in the pool.

Speaker 4:
[52:49] Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. And I think having tried Kyra camera as well, which is probably one of the newer Micro Four Thirds cameras. It's, I don't know. I don't know if it's because I do know how to use a camera, but doing all the aperture and everything on a touchscreen, I found not very fun and a little bit frustrating. And I don't know if a beginner would probably feel the same and just give them a tactile dial and just try actual photography. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[53:16] Yeah, beginners like, I'd like this a little bit brighter or darker and Kyra's like, oh, well, you need to learn all three aspects of the exposure triangle before you're able to do that, seems a little bit out.

Speaker 4:
[53:26] On a tiny screen.

Speaker 1:
[53:28] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[53:30] So let's save Micro Four Thirds. And that's a perfect segue. So this is what Chris doesn't want to see coming out into Micro Four Thirds. What do we want to see that we think? Because there's just anytime we post anything about Micro Four Thirds, you know, you'll just get a barrage of comments like, why are you looking at this? This is stupid. Just buy a full frame camera. You silly billies. That's what they all say. It's weird they all use the same insult.

Speaker 1:
[53:54] Yeah. Always silly billies.

Speaker 4:
[53:57] Yeah, I think Chris is-

Speaker 1:
[53:58] Emily, how do we save Micro Four Thirds?

Speaker 4:
[53:59] Yeah, you're very right. I think something premium and small, small is the important thing. We have the OM System OM3, which I love, but it's a chunky boy. It's, I don't know. I like that it's feature rich, but I think looking back on the OM System side, when we had the EM5s, the EM10s, I think that where you had a metal chassis, tactile dials, it looks timeless because they've made the same camera for 100 years. It's nice. I think something like that on the OM System side. I know we have the OM5, but they've gone plastic-y. And I missed having something that feels real.

Speaker 3:
[54:39] A lot of these companies seem like they're scared of two things simultaneously. They're scared of making a camera that appears too complicated for who they assume is a dumb smartphone user, which I think I agree with Chris, is not an assumption they should be making. They should assume the intelligence of their users. That's what makes for great video games. If you assume your player is smart, the game is better. I think the same thing goes with cameras. If someone is that interested in using it, they're going to want it to be a certain thing, and they're going to want to learn it. Simultaneously, they are so frightened of being like, we don't want to be too chintzy, because then everyone will just compare us to full frame, and we're losing to full frame, because Sony convinced everyone that full frame is the most important thing on Earth. And they lost that marketing battle, and they don't know how to re-win it. So they're trapped in this weird zone between being afraid their users are too dumb, and also being afraid that they are going to be compared to full frame. And so what they've done is they've tried to look a little more full frame-y in the design of their cameras with the stuff that they take more seriously, but then when they try and take it less seriously and go smaller, they make it cheap and chintzy. They don't seem to be able to balance this very well, despite the fact that there are examples of these cameras existing, the GM5 being one of them, where it's a perfect example of what this system is good at, and they just, all they can do is like, their eyes are bouncing like they're made, like you've got mirrors or refracted light. They just bounce around the thing that's good and go somewhere else.

Speaker 4:
[56:16] Yeah, that's so true. And the PEN-F on the Olympus side, the ones that are the classics are small, premium, top of the range, really well built, and usually photo centric. That's what I want.

Speaker 3:
[56:30] Yeah, they're also afraid of going full photos. I mean, besides OM system, who has, I think that's not actually a decision they've made.

Speaker 2:
[56:38] They just haven't got their R&D as dictated.

Speaker 3:
[56:41] Correct. That's why they're mostly photo focused. We're proud of them for the wrong reasons. But I think a lot of companies are afraid to go photo focused. Just put some video features in there, because it doesn't cost you any more to do it. We've covered that topic before. It doesn't cost extra.

Speaker 1:
[56:58] The Micro Four Thirds manufacturers need to just kind of grow a pair and just commit in interesting ways. And I feel like they really are spinning in mud. I'm all for Micro Four Thirds of all sizes and shapes. I really am. It's been a really cool experience, mostly with OM system in the last couple of years. But doing a lot of the trail cameras, I've been able to really test them out beyond just Calgary. And Costa Rica was really interesting. It was really enlightening to have solid cameras with good controls, but the lenses aren't humongous. And I really do see the benefit there. And that worked really well. And do you have to apply noise reduction afterwards? Yes, fine, no big deal. That's something where technology really helps us out nowadays and mitigates the issue that Micro Four Thirds might have in that regard on a technical standpoint. But then, like, I love the OM3. I used it in New Mexico. I thought it was great. I like the controls. It's stylish. The lenses are still compact. But why aren't they doing anything small? And that is weird because no other sensor mount can do that. That's unique to these small sensors. And they refuse to do it and it blows my mind. And I think Micro Four Thirds small cameras should be like premium watches. Make them prestigious. Make them desirable. Make them beautiful to carry. If some people out there want to be posers and just pose with them, great. Fine. You sell cameras. But there's also going to be so many people that want to enjoy a small product that's on them all the time that gives them the full manual control. So many young people now are getting into analog, which has arguably a way harder learning curve. As far as you have to learn exposure, you have to learn manual focusing in a lot of cases, you have to then go through the developing and all that kind of stuff and deal with failures. So I'm sure that those people will be able to handle learning on a camera that is not just stuck with training wheels, but actually has room to grow.

Speaker 3:
[58:51] The X100 exists. It exists. That is exactly the market Micro Four Thirds should be going after. And they just cannot look at it.

Speaker 1:
[59:02] They won't do it. They see this opportunity to make something plastic and cheap, or they're just terrified.

Speaker 2:
[59:08] Last year, Leica brought out basically an LX100 II from like almost 10 years ago, and they cannot make enough of those things. They are absolutely flying out, which is kind of an equivalent to an X100 series. So that got me thinking, we can talk about this in terms of concepts and everything like that. Can you guys rattle off some products you can invent in your brains that would get people excited about Micro Four Thirds again specifically? Because I got a list of things I was thinking about here, but I'm curious if there's anything. Go, start. You start. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Let me kick it off with Panasonic. So first one, easiest thing in the world, just re-release the GX9. Don't take anything off of it. Put a USB-C port on it.

Speaker 3:
[59:54] Oh, God.

Speaker 2:
[59:55] This is exactly what so many people-

Speaker 3:
[59:56] Don't take anything off. They don't know how to do that.

Speaker 2:
[59:58] Don't take the EVF off. I know they want to. They're gonna be like, look at that EVF. Like, do you think we could? Well, then no, do not. Under any circumstances, take that thing off. But just re-release that because that is in a lot of ways very similar to the PEN-F replacement people are clamoring for. EVF, compact, great controls. It's a really well-rounded camera and I think it just came out at exactly the wrong moment on that one just right as Micro Four Thirds was losing steam. The other thing I think Panasonic does really well is they've got good low-end lenses for videos because they've got the GH6, GH7, they have absolutely incredible high-end with the f1.7 zoom, some of their super telephotos, I want a mid-range video lens that's unlike anyone else's doing and my pitch for that is give me a 10 to 50 millimeter f2.8 power zoom with a focus clutch. Nothing like that exists in any other mount, price it around like $1,200, $1,500, something like that. Seems very feasible to me and so many people doing documentary and stuff like that would just lap that up. So those are my pitches for like two Panasonic cameras, I think would suddenly get people talking about Micro Four Thirds again really quick. What do you guys got?

Speaker 1:
[61:17] Well, okay, I'm not going to retort on that. I agree with you, like I see, but those are safe choices. Like Panasonic Micro Four Thirds to me.

Speaker 2:
[61:26] Oh, I got some crazy ones with OM2. You get ready.

Speaker 1:
[61:29] Well, that's the only safe market, right? You know, GX9 would be a good stopgap. And yeah, I hope they don't pull the UVF off. But I still want them to recreate something small and novel. I really think that they could do something like a GM5 slash GX9 combo that would be stylish. And I just don't know if Panasonic have it in them. They just seem so against it, which seems odd to me. You get kind of a gist from when you talk to the people, and you talk to the employees, and you talk to the executives, and they just seem to have this like, no, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 2:
[62:09] When they do a heavy sigh, you know what the answer is. Just like, hey, Sean, what about a GM5 replacement?

Speaker 1:
[62:15] And he goes, yeah, where's OM System? They're like, you know, they give us that, which is nice.

Speaker 3:
[62:23] The high sign.

Speaker 1:
[62:25] You know, and so they're going to eat Panasonic's lunch.

Speaker 3:
[62:28] And I don't think Panasonic legitimately seems like they have no interest in doing this again. I feel like I feel like this is like a like a spurned lover. They were in there making these things and they lost so much money doing it that they're just like, we can't do it again.

Speaker 1:
[62:41] Well, I think, yeah, I think they got really safe in the video field. Yeah, I'm all for them having new lenses. I think that'd be awesome. Like a 10 to 50 to 8, great. You know, Jordan would love it. Micro Four Thirds!1's video from them is beautiful quality. But I think that's their safe zone. So I almost don't want them to do that stuff because it's really safe. What I want Panasonic to do is they got to be bold. They really have to, they got to be bold. And honestly, you could say that about their full frame products too. But yeah, anyways, I digress.

Speaker 4:
[63:13] I think something small and weather sealed would go a long way. I'd love to see, you know, I think we've got like a Lumix anniversary coming up soon. Why not bring out like a special edition GM5 in some fun colors?

Speaker 3:
[63:31] Because they'd have to remake it. Unfortunately, they'd have to like spin that factory back up. I'm like, oh, we got to find that little EVF again. And they don't want to.

Speaker 4:
[63:39] That would be so good. I think the the G9 II sensor is causing a lot of problems because it needs a bit more space to breathe. The ibis is big, so it could only be in larger bodies, is my understanding when I've been speaking to people from Lumix. You might just give me the older cell sensor then. Like, that's fine. We don't mind.

Speaker 1:
[63:59] I'm going to straight up curse and wish death upon the mother of the next executive that looks me in the face and tells me, smartphone users don't care about EVFs. I'm going to do it. I'm going to, yeah, I'll put a hex on their whole family line, their bloodline for three generations.

Speaker 3:
[64:14] You're going to like reach across the table at them and I'm going to have to hold you back because you're like, as papers go flying.

Speaker 1:
[64:18] Yeah, let me at them. I'll tear your face off. Yeah, honestly, I'm tired of that. Just be like, you know what? We want to keep it under this price point. Like, okay, but still, stupid decision. Stupid decision.

Speaker 2:
[64:30] I got a couple others. You guys want to hear them and tell me if you think they'd be worthwhile? I would love to see a whole set of like $100 to $150 OM prime lenses that are just cute. They don't have to be optically perfect. I think there's a real expectation of that. I think, you know what? The edges could be a little soft. I want fun lenses that can hit that price point that are all like aesthetically right in line, hopefully released alongside a body where that would match. But I do think that's another big limitation because a lot of people are looking at F18 Micro Four Thirds lenses, saying it's the same price as full frame ones. What am I really getting here? So yeah, make something small, cheap, that doesn't have to be optically perfect and kind of emphasizes the fun on that. At the other end of the spectrum, give me an Astro lens, OM, for the love of God. You have all of these great Astro features. You have, you know, you've got starry AF, you've got...

Speaker 3:
[65:30] So what do you want?

Speaker 2:
[65:31] I want just, what do you think, Chris?

Speaker 1:
[65:35] Like a 10 mil, like a really fast, good 10 mil would be nice. Is it okay if it's bigger? Yeah, big's fine, you know, for that kind of... Who cares? You're on a tripod walking out of your car 10 minutes, right?

Speaker 3:
[65:47] It's just that, like I can see them saying that we're contradictory because we tell them to go small, but at the same time, sometimes you gotta go big. They're going to use that as an excuse to do nothing.

Speaker 2:
[65:56] In this case.

Speaker 1:
[65:58] Micro Four Thirds is one of these lens mounts that is so prolific. There's so many options. There's so many different sizes and shapes. That's really cool about it. But yeah, you're kind of forced to use like a zoom, which isn't fast enough, right? With Micro Four Thirds. That's with anybody. I mean, Panasonic doesn't really... I mean, they're closer.

Speaker 2:
[66:17] They've got the 12-1.4, the 9-1.7. But I know we were in New Mexico just like, oh, we want to shoot some Astro with that new Astro camera. What lens do we want?

Speaker 1:
[66:27] 7-14-2.8 or something? 7-14-2.8. Yeah. That's slow. Which isn't bright enough. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[66:37] Yeah, I think it's a really good point because you do have all the computational features, but not always the hard way to back it up. I've never thought about that before.

Speaker 3:
[66:45] Yeah, me neither, actually.

Speaker 1:
[66:46] Well, you know who else could make these lenses that if the companies refused to do it, is a lot of the other third-party manufacturers could. But why does, you know, yeah, maybe. But why did the Chinese companies refuse to make Micro Four Thirds lenses? Because there's no body support. So, yeah, I mean, on the one hand, seeing these toys coming out of Insta360 stuff is kind of like, okay, it's a step in the right direction because hopefully people will look at it and be like, okay, we make more lenses, but it's still a toy camera in my opinion coming out of them. That doesn't excite me. But if OM system, let's just say hypothetically releases a PEN-F that we're all hoping for, a new version that's super stylish, updated, not just a re-release, has an EVF that really gets people excited, then I could see all of these third-party manufacturers feeling, finally, now we can make affordable, stylish, autofocusing optics and astral lenses and cool zooms for this amount.

Speaker 3:
[67:38] I think Sigma would get back into it if they could rationalize it as a business-like thing, like they would definitely do it. It's the same thing with the Kazuo-san's statements about GFX, like he'd love to make GFX lenses, he just needs more people to own GFX cameras in order to rationalize it. It's the same thing with Micro Four Thirds.

Speaker 4:
[67:55] I think it was an end of an era when Sigma stopped Micro Four Thirds. Absolutely.

Speaker 3:
[68:00] They just weren't moving. They just weren't moving product and I don't blame them for it.

Speaker 2:
[68:05] One other thought here, let's go up market then, the G9 III and the OM1 Mark III. What do you want to see? What can they do at the high end that would actually get people excited about Micro Four Thirds, you think?

Speaker 3:
[68:21] I would like them to try something new with sensors. I think at the high end you have to do something, we have been using these same sensors forever. I think it's because the fab that they buy from Sony doesn't make the one exactly they are looking for, so you have to spend a little bit more money to get them to cut out the piece you want from the larger sensor that you want. They are just giant sheets, you can cut them, but it's more expensive than to just point at that same one that they have just been rolling off the shelf forever. I would love to see them do something, maybe try Lofic, maybe try Global, just do anything different for the love of God.

Speaker 4:
[69:03] Yeah, if it has the same sensor in, I think that's going to be, even though it's a wonderful sensor, people need to see innovation.

Speaker 3:
[69:11] They need to see it. And that starts at the top, and it doesn't matter if it's more expensive. That's the same way that it works with Sony and Nikon and Canon. If it's expensive, that's for a very specific audience, but it at least gets people excited about the format again, like, okay, you're capable. Maybe that will trickle down. And it usually does. It usually does trickle down.

Speaker 1:
[69:31] I feel like OM Systems is in the best position right now, not only because they've got maybe arguably more stylish products and history with stylish products, but also they're still on the forefront of computational photography with Micro Four Thirds, which again is a huge benefit if the other manufacturers just don't seem or are not willing to implement properly, beyond maybe high res mode. But yeah, 25 megapixel Micro Four Thirds sensor let you then go to 100 megapixels for landscape and stuff. Awesome, right? People would love that. Dynamic range is great now. If everybody's saying cameras are so good now, sensors are so good, then I mean, I think Micro Four Thirds image quality is fine. It's acceptable. It's absolutely good for professional work. I don't think we're in that situation where it's that big a difference, unless you want super high megapixels. But yeah, it's got to be stylish. It's got to be fun. Nobody is supporting there. The manufacturers aren't supporting their own brand, so then nobody else is going to support them either.

Speaker 2:
[70:38] I think I can solve this situation with OM because they have an incredibly fast scanning sensor that we have no idea what it's actually capable of. Because every time we ask about a feature, they're like, our processor can't handle that. It's like, why can't I mix high res mode and live ND? Let's stack more images together. It's a fast enough sensor. It seems like the processor is just constantly the bottleneck. That should be an incredible video sensor. We have no idea because it's been put in OM bodies. That's a bad video. So I think, yeah, for the OM3, I don't care if they have to do multiple processors, raise the price, whatever. But let us use all that cool computational stuff together, like to do a time lapse with high res mode, or time lapses with live ND functionality going on it, graduated NDs, all that kind of stuff. Let us do it in camera. And then it is what we're talking about. It's like a really fun year making creative decisions on the fly with a tool that does things no other camera company can. It's that simple.

Speaker 3:
[71:38] Do you know what processor already exists that specializes in doing everything that OM's cameras can do?

Speaker 2:
[71:45] Snapdragon.

Speaker 3:
[71:46] Snapdragon already does that. And you know what? We've already seen it implemented in a Micro Four Thirds camera. And that wasn't the bad part about that camera.

Speaker 1:
[71:55] Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 3:
[71:56] So like we talked to Snapdragon, and I was talking about the Cairo by the way. We talked to Snapdragon several years ago. And being like, this seems like you could just put this in a full, you know, a large regular old camera. Is there anything stopping you from doing that? And they're like, no, the processor is perfectly capable of running one of these things. I think the issue is they don't want to pay like the licensing for it or whatever. They don't want to pay for someone else's processor. But if your processor stinks and it's holding you back.

Speaker 1:
[72:24] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[72:26] And your main business model is computational features.

Speaker 3:
[72:28] Exactly. Just do it. Even if you have to stack it alongside your own, you can make that work. You can put your processors in a camera.

Speaker 1:
[72:36] Yeah. But they're legitimately useful products. And they're legitimately useful for OM system. Their computational stuff is legitimately useful. And it would be even more useful on smaller cameras. I think what OM needs to do for the high end, I think they're already doing quite well. They've got a good line of lenses for telephoto work. People really appreciate their cameras for wildlife. Yeah, make the autofocus a little bit more reliable. But it's certainly capable of professional results in difficult situations. And then, and they're rugged as hell. And so, yeah, it's, yeah, keep improving the OM1. But yeah, really, we got to see some cool small cameras. Panasonic, I think they need to make an S9 II full frame with an EVF. That would just, without any other changes, that thing would just destroy the market in a positive way for Panasonic. And then they just need to downscale the S9 II with an EVF into Micro Four Thirds amount, make it smaller, just downscale it. And people will buy it like crazy. And even if it's not, even if it's not metal and super stylish, I think still people will like it. But what do I know?

Speaker 3:
[73:39] You know these companies pay so much money for market research and like focus groups. Stop. Just listen to this. This is just, we were giving you every... We have four people.

Speaker 2:
[73:50] We have all the answers right here.

Speaker 3:
[73:53] We have provided you with the template for success. And there's actually like four templates here you could pick from. Choose any of these, preferably all of them.

Speaker 1:
[74:01] But it's our viewers too, right Emily? I'm sure you get this all the time in the comments.

Speaker 3:
[74:04] They tell you what they want.

Speaker 1:
[74:06] Yeah, it's not just us trying to like push an agenda. They're always saying these things, aren't they?

Speaker 4:
[74:11] It's so funny with the S9. I have such a love-hate relationship with it. And I do love the new 40mm lens. I think it's finally getting there. But it's like Panasonic have gone all the way around the houses to try and reinvent Micro Four Thirds. Because they've made it small, and now they're bringing out small lenses. And, oh, we've got to compromise this, we've got to compromise that. It's like, do you know what wouldn't be a compromise? Just a small, blooming Micro Four Thirds camera that you've been making for years.

Speaker 1:
[74:37] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[74:38] Yeah, the answer is in the middle of the roundabout, the traffic circle. And they just keep going around and around it.

Speaker 1:
[74:44] All the challenges with making, putting shutters in compact body, that's already been done. All the homework's been done already. Years ago. I don't buy it. I don't buy it when they give us their marketing excuses. I don't buy it.

Speaker 3:
[74:59] Well, hopefully, someone of these companies, I know they're listening, they always listen. So that's how you save Micro Four Thirds. If you ever intend to anyway, companies that are in Micro Four Thirds, that's how you do it. We got to start winding this down. We're going to go with, what have you been up to? This is where Emily can use her time to tell our audience what they should be excited about her life, work or not. It's up to you. I don't care. You can say whatever you want. You got a book, hawk the book. Here you go. Stage is yours.

Speaker 4:
[75:30] So this year, after many years of people asking me in the comments, I've started some in-person workshops. I've got a street photography workshop in Liverpool in the UK. So it's UK based. But yeah, we've got a room. We've got models. We're going to do a photo editing workshop. And yeah, I'm really excited to meet some people in real life.

Speaker 3:
[75:50] Do you still have seats available for that?

Speaker 4:
[75:52] Yes. Yeah. And we've got the room on retainer. So if one date sells out, we can just open more incrementally.

Speaker 3:
[75:59] Well, I will put a link to that in the description below.

Speaker 4:
[76:02] Amazing. Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[76:03] So if anyone is interested, I highly recommend it.

Speaker 2:
[76:07] Three people who have hung out with Emily, I think we can all recommend hanging out with Emily.

Speaker 1:
[76:12] Well, and you know what, Emily, like photographically too, I feel like in the last couple of years, you've been traveling a lot more. You've been shooting a lot more on location and stuff like that and getting beautiful photographs. So I mean, I don't know about you, but I found the last couple of years more fulfilling creatively, but I feel like maybe that's the case for you too. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 4:
[76:30] For sure. I think I'm finding my style, finding what I'm really gravitating towards. And I think every photographer, it's a journey, isn't it? You know, you find yourself drawn to certain things. And then when you double down on that, you can start to develop your own style. So I'm getting there. I'm a work in progress.

Speaker 1:
[76:48] Nice, nice.

Speaker 2:
[76:49] One other thing too, and if you're not checking out what she's doing, I mean, your name implies it's all Micro Four Thirds land over there, but it definitely isn't. So Emily's looking at all kinds of different camera systems and stuff like that. The last time we had her on, we were just talking about L-mount actually, but it actually happens a surprising amount where the camera manufacturers are like, who are other creators that you think are doing good work? And without fail, we always say like, Emily's doing some of the best stuff out there. So if you're not watching her content, go check it out. It's good.

Speaker 4:
[77:22] Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[77:25] Anything you guys want to mention is what you've been up to?

Speaker 2:
[77:29] No, I'm not doing the pause this week. I'm going to jump right on it. This week, new Resolve came out. So I have been playing with that, Resolve 21, primarily on the photo side of things. But we are going to have a video out for it shortly. I've made some discoveries and I am closer than ever to switching. But I saw some stuff online. Emily, you're also deep into Resolve world right now. So how's that going?

Speaker 4:
[78:00] So it all came about because I got an iPad Pro and I wanted to use Final Cut as the app. And the Final Cut app is awful. It may as well be called First Cut. It doesn't do anything. You can't even color grade. It's awful. And then all the people in the comments were like, just use DaVinci, you dummy. So I started just over maybe nearly two weeks in. And I've just gone like two weeks in and I've bought the peripherals, I've got all the apps. All in. Just all in. I just think it's, I've been a final cut gal for a long time and it's great and it's fast. But DaVinci with the color grading and some of the way that the titles and animations work, it's so more advanced. And I really need to try the photo editing bit as well, actually.

Speaker 3:
[78:46] How have you had time to learn an editor? We can't find the time to do it. I've wanted to, but I feel like I have to take like a Saturday and sit down and be like, I'm going to edit.

Speaker 2:
[78:56] Oh, it's more than a Saturday.

Speaker 4:
[78:58] I took a full weekend, I think, yeah, full on weekend, sort of all day until very, very late. And I just basically said like, I am not doing this, this video on any, it was the Pixie review, actually. You did a video on the Pixie recently. So my first video on DaVinci was with that. And I was like, even if I end up pulling my hair out, I am not doing it on anything other than DaVinci. And it took me longer than usual, but it was such a great, I am so afraid of. Yeah, it was a great learning curve. And now with the speed editor, I am like, it gets better, Jaron, it gets better.

Speaker 3:
[79:29] I am so fast in premiere. Like I am so fast in premiere. I am just terrified of losing that speed.

Speaker 2:
[79:38] One thing you pointed out online, Emily, I saw is that you are working with proxy media now. And that terrifies me because I am often looking at image quality while I am mid-edit. You don't need proxies.

Speaker 3:
[79:50] You have got hardware that can handle it.

Speaker 2:
[79:53] What are you running for your editing system? Because I want to know.

Speaker 4:
[79:56] I have got the new Mac Mini Pro Boy. It is a decent machine. And to be fair, I realized because I come from Final Cut where you put a lot of the plugins in as you go. DaVinci is very much like you cut it, you edit it, you sort out the audio, you do the color grade. And I kind of put the cart before the horse, lobbed a load of plugins in and everything ground to a halt. So yeah, I don't think I need to use proxy as much. I just need to get the workflow right, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[80:25] Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[80:26] I know if you have Jordan, it's got power.

Speaker 2:
[80:29] Okay. Yeah, I do kind of butt up against that a lot because I use Resolve primarily for like raw conversion or if I've got a bad edit or I have to do any key framing. So I use it on kind of a clip by clip basis. And then the only time I use it for full projects is when we're working with BRAW footage, which I do maybe like once a year or something like that. So yeah, I'm very concerned because the main reason I love Final Cut is I can put image sequences in, grade them and not have it hang, which is something I do in every single video. So we'll see, I'm terrified of that. But just in terms of using the tools and the photo editor, I've made some discoveries and we're going to have a video up this week about some of those. So stay tuned everyone.

Speaker 3:
[81:16] Okay, I think we have time for one tech support question, but luckily it will be using all of your minds, including yours, Emily. So this one is a question from James from the UK. Hi Jaron, Chris and Jordan, and I'm going to put an Emily in there even though he didn't. I have an EM-10 Mark II that I use for travel and photography, and before that I had an Nikon D40 before having kids eight years ago. However, I rarely use that camera anymore. I used it for baby photos, but once the kids became mobile, I found my use falling off as I became unhappy with the focus speed and accuracy. Kids don't stay still. And low light performance. I also found the image quality wasn't always that satisfying, and I don't have time to edit all of my photos to get what I want, although I generally still prefer the look and feel of those photos over the recent. I generally still prefer the look and feel of the photos to my recent iPhone. Well, good. For several years, I've been weighing up different cameras, but I've got some decision paralysis. I want a camera that is good in various light conditions, has good reliable autofocus, and produces good straight out of camera JPEGs, but also has good image quality and is easy to work with RAWs for the occasions where I do want to edit those. I know that the technical answer to best autofocus low light performance is full frame, something like Z5 II, but I worry about the weight and size. A Fuji of some kind would seem a good compromise, lighter and smaller, good out of camera JPEGs, great film simulations, good APS-C lens selection. However, I worry that autofocus performance and low light isn't as good with APS-C. Clearly, I read and watch reviews and starting with yours, of course, but I think I'm lacking context of how autofocus really performs in the real world. Fuji is evidently not as good as something like Nikon or Sony full frame, but is it good enough in most circumstances? It's maybe not ideal for the fast action sports and wildlife. But how does it perform in day-to-day situations, especially with subjects like unpredictable children and low light? I'm not looking for a camera recommendation. I deliberately haven't included a budget. He listens. He knows that we won't do that if he asks for a camera recommendation. But I'd really like help getting some perspective on absolute rather than relative autofocus performance. I assume anything modern will be miles better than the EM-10 Mark II. Thank you, James.

Speaker 1:
[83:29] What do you think, Emily?

Speaker 4:
[83:30] Oh, so are we do it? Are we allowed camera recommendation?

Speaker 3:
[83:33] Yeah, you can. You absolutely can. We just try and avoid the thing where someone just asks Chris exactly what camera they should buy with broad sweeping generalization.

Speaker 1:
[83:41] Yeah. The worst question I get is, hey, sir, which camera should I buy for photo now? Please.

Speaker 4:
[83:48] Yeah. My favorite is when I do like a buying guide, like 10 cameras that are under 500 pounds. And then on the comment, it's like, which camera should I buy? And I'm like, so listening to that, my mind when if you wanted to stay in the Micro Four Thirds ecosystem, maybe if you have a couple of lenses, I would definitely check out the OM3 because the autofocus is a huge upgrade and they do have subject detection and the JPEGs with the color profile dial are very, very nice. So you wouldn't have to do much editing. And then I thought if you were going full frame, I would maybe say the S9 because it's tiny and you've got real time LUT and then you do have good autofocus there as well.

Speaker 1:
[84:33] Yeah. Would it be nice if somebody made just like a compact, stylish Micro Four Thirds camera with maybe slightly more megapixels and get autofocus? I was kind of, you know, I was kind of in the same mindset as Emily when I first saw this. I'm like, yeah, EM10 Mark II, it was a pretty entry level camera and it did have some issues for sure. But I want to answer James's Fujifilm question as well. But like, OM3 is great, absolutely. I think autofocus on on OM system has gotten quite a bit better than it used to be. I would maybe even look at if you invested in some nicer Micro Four Thirds lenses, if you're okay with maybe some faster primes and stuff, that would give you a unique look that you might not be getting out of your M10 Mark II that you would enjoy. But yeah, Fujifilm autofocus will be fine for kids. Like Fujifilm does get a bad rap. When we talk about these things in our reviews, it's because we have to put them in context with other brands. And yeah, I do feel like Nikon and Sony and Canon do have better eye-detect and just faster, more reliable focus for across a wide range. But Fujifilm have good autofocus. And it'll certainly handle kids running around. It'll certainly handle some wildlife and event and sports, all that kind of stuff. I mean, it really doesn't come to the skill of the user and practicing with the gear and setting up the autofocus system.

Speaker 3:
[85:46] I've had great success photographing toddlers with an X1006. I've done it twice now for two friends. And I've gotten some pictures that are like, they're so happy with them.

Speaker 1:
[85:56] And that's a stupid camera. And it's got a dumb lens on it.

Speaker 3:
[85:59] Chris hates that camera. It's not even the best the Fujifilm can make.

Speaker 1:
[86:02] No, right? So, you know, yeah, Fujifilm would be fine. It's, you know, they're compact as cameras go. You know, I could see as a parent, I don't necessarily want to be walking around with like a big full system camera. So I get that too. Yeah, yeah, I get that too.

Speaker 4:
[86:19] Another thought for that query is if you were willing to go fix lens, I've really enjoyed the Canon PowerShot V1. It's got a really versatile lens. It's got like an 18mm at the wide end. And I found the autofocus to be really good. And it's basically sort of a Micro Four Thirds camera if you squint. It's almost the same sensor size. I think it's great.

Speaker 1:
[86:43] You know, on that same note, I'm going to go with a camera that I feel... I don't get why this camera is so undersung. But the Sony A6700 would be an awesome camera to go with. Like, they're so compact for APS-C. Like, they're kind of the GM5 of the APS-C world. They're as compact as you can pretty much make an APS-C camera. Sony have a lot of lens choices. It doesn't even have to be Sony lenses. So you've got affordable choices. The image quality is great. The autofocus is, I would say, going to be the best you'll find in the APS-C world. So, like, I know they're not sexy, but they're small. They've got an EVF. Like...

Speaker 3:
[87:19] It's $1,500 bucks, too.

Speaker 1:
[87:20] Why does nobody buy this camera? I mean, I know, like, I know the A6000 series in general seems like such a, like, pedestrian camera for so many years now. But it is exactly what people bought for family photos and enjoyment. And, like, yeah, great photos, great lenses, great autofocus, good EVF. Like, small body. What more could you ask for? I don't know why people don't buy that. Awesome video, too, frankly.

Speaker 3:
[87:48] I don't have any answers for you.

Speaker 2:
[87:51] So I'm good, too. I think they covered it.

Speaker 3:
[87:53] All right.

Speaker 2:
[87:54] It didn't require all four of our heads. It only took two.

Speaker 3:
[87:59] And that is the only time we have today for tech support. Hopefully, that was helpful, James. We're going to close with the feel good story of the week. This one I thought was just kind of fun. An old school passport photo studio has an incredible collection of celebrity portraits in passport style. And so you can go take a look at Mick Jagger and Shania Twain, Sean Connery, Twice. These are neat. It's actually in a book by Philip Sharkey. And yeah, it's 25 bucks and you can take a look at all these really neat ideas.

Speaker 1:
[88:37] Yeah, they were in Oxford Street in London, conveniently close to the United States Canadian embassy. So maybe that's why they just got so much so much work. Yeah, that's cool, man. That's hilarious.

Speaker 3:
[88:47] And the thing about those passport photos is, is the person who took them technically owns the copyright to them. So yeah, that's why this is okay.

Speaker 2:
[88:56] Emily, can you jog down and go get a portrait taken at that same studio right now and get your own face added to that list?

Speaker 4:
[89:05] Yeah, so it's only around 300 miles away. I'll be a couple of minutes.

Speaker 3:
[89:12] That's going to do it. Thank you, Emily, for joining us.

Speaker 1:
[89:15] It was great having you back.

Speaker 4:
[89:16] Always a pleasure. I love chatting with you guys. You are my favorite people and my favorite camera YouTube channel. And it's just wonderful. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[89:25] It's always great to see you.

Speaker 3:
[89:26] Make sure that if that's only now that Gerald's not doing it anymore.

Speaker 4:
[89:30] Of course, he was first.

Speaker 1:
[89:32] Oh, jeez.

Speaker 3:
[89:34] If you all are in the UK and would like to go to Emily's workshop, there's a link in the description below to sign up for that. We highly recommend spending time with her because she's great. And yeah, with that, we'll catch you all in the next one. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 4:
[89:49] Bye.

Speaker 3:
[89:50] Bye.