transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:33] Hello, and welcome to The Worn & Wound Podcast. My name is Zach Kazan. I'm the Editorial Director at Worn & Wound. This is our big Watches & Wonders wrap-up show. So I'm joined today, fittingly, by my colleagues who I attended Watches & Wonders with last week, Kat Shoulders and Zach Weiss. Kat, Zach, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 2:
[00:51] Great, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[00:52] Pretty good. Are you well rested back on East Coast, or you're not on the East Coast, Kat, but back on your standard time zone, getting there? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[01:04] My sleep schedule is still a little messed up, but getting there.

Speaker 1:
[01:08] Yeah. I woke up wide awake at 4 a.m. this morning and yesterday morning, which I think is a remnant of spending a week in Switzerland, but try to make the most of it. Wake up, try to get some work done, get out for a walk, get the blood pumping. I don't know. Trying to adjust before the next trip, which we'll also all be on very short time, because we have a wind-up fare coming right up anyway. Yeah, next week. San Francisco, here we come. But before that, there's a lot of Watches & Wonders stuff to chat about. So we'll do that. We'll go over some of the trends that we saw. Some new developments at this show, new brands to talk about that made their debut at Watches & Wonders, stuff we like, stuff we didn't like, etc. Let's do a quick risk check before we get into all that. Kat, what are you wearing today?

Speaker 2:
[01:57] I'm wearing my new-to-me Serica Parade that I picked up while in Geneva.

Speaker 1:
[02:04] Excellent. A Watches & Wonders Week pick up. You picked it up at Chronopolis, which is one of the new things that we can talk about on this episode of the podcast. How are you liking the parade?

Speaker 2:
[02:15] I love it. Yeah. I've thought about this watch for a long time. I was able to shoot a campaign for it when it first released. It was in the back of my mind and I finally picked one up.

Speaker 1:
[02:29] Yeah. That's a beautiful watch. I bought a Serica at the last event. We were all at together before Watches & Wonders, the Dallas wind up. So yeah, there's a Serica purchasing trend coming here. Zach, you did not buy a Serica that I know of at Watches & Wonders.

Speaker 3:
[02:45] No.

Speaker 1:
[02:46] Listen, maybe San Francisco. Who knows?

Speaker 3:
[02:51] We saw some things.

Speaker 1:
[02:52] Yeah, we did see some things. We saw some good stuff from Serica. Yeah. What are you wearing today, Zach?

Speaker 3:
[02:59] I have on my Haybring Irwin Pilot.

Speaker 1:
[03:02] Excellent. Yeah, that's a good watch.

Speaker 3:
[03:04] It's a little, I don't know. It's a good, what do we call it? Like a palate cleanser watch.

Speaker 1:
[03:10] Palate cleanser. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[03:11] Yeah. It's nice because it's on one hand, almost just like a field watch. But then you got a little, you got a little of that little indie fanciness going on in there.

Speaker 1:
[03:20] Yeah. Yeah. Kind of straddles the line. I'm wearing a watch that I picked up at the Geneva airport. I'm wearing a watch that I certainly was not expecting to buy. I'm wearing the Swatch Blancpain Scuba Abyss Green, I think they call it. This is the green scuba. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

Speaker 3:
[03:44] Head over heels when you saw it.

Speaker 1:
[03:45] I just, you know, the Swatch store is like right after security at the Geneva airport. Like, they make it very easy to, you know, to just get sort of, I don't know, caught up in the moment. And I've picked up swatches on my way out of Geneva, you know, a couple of times and, I don't know, just like a nice little memento, but I, you know, I've said so many times on the podcast and, you know, on the blog that I really don't appreciate the moon swatch at all. Like, I'm very anti-moon swatch, but I kind of secretly like, not so secretly anymore, these blogpond swatch collabs. So I picked up the green one. It was, I don't know, it's sung to me in the moment. I have to say, anyone who tells you that this, like, bioceramic material is, like, in any way premium is, like, feeding you a line of, like, you know, it's, it's not. It's like, it's, it's pretty cheap. Like, it's like, it, this is a toy, but it's, I don't know, it's kind of fun. I like the color, you know, whatever. I bought a watch at the airport. Thanks. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[04:51] I've, I've, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[04:52] Not literally congratulations, but it's like, you know.

Speaker 2:
[04:55] I've, I've bought many a swatch at the Geneva Airport myself.

Speaker 1:
[04:58] Yeah. I think there's an article there. The swatches we bought coming back from Geneva.

Speaker 3:
[05:04] I've yet to do that.

Speaker 1:
[05:05] Yeah. All right. Let's talk about Watches & Wonders 2026. I thought we could start by talking about some of the brands that made their debut at Watches & Wonders. Because that was like kind of like a big story coming into the show, dominated by, by AP, Audemars Piguet in particular. And also a couple other sort of like more enthusiast focused brands that I think maybe have gone like a little under the radar in the reporting of from Watches & Wonders. But I know that we spent some time seeing. But let's just tackle AP real quick. None of us saw, none of us went into the AP booth, right? Did Zach, did you make your way into the AP booth at any point? No. Yeah, Kat, I know you didn't. I also did not. Many people have pointed out that the AP booth kind of stood apart literally and figuratively from other booths at Watches & Wonders. Because it is very far flung. It's like it's outside the normal kind of like hall there. Like it's part of like the upper, I guess they call it the mezzanine at Pal Expo. So it's not centrally located. But more than that, it's like very intentionally like closed off from like the public. Every other booth at Watches & Wonders, you can see watches, even if you don't have like an appointment, you can walk in. They have them displayed kind of like on the facade, you know, under glass. So like I didn't have like a Patek appointment this year, but like I saw all the Pateks that they, you know, announced because they're like on display. AP had no watches on display. It was very closed off.

Speaker 2:
[06:41] Yeah. They had sort of, they had some stanchions like in front of their booth.

Speaker 1:
[06:45] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[06:45] And they had quite a few people standing outside, make sure people like weren't coming inside. I never went to like see if I could go in there though. They may have been inviting if you walked up and asked to come in. So that's a possibility.

Speaker 1:
[06:59] Apparently, you could. Apparently, you could wait in line and get a tour of the booth, which I mean, who has time to do that? Like during Watches & Wonders week, if you're there like to work, I certainly didn't. I don't know. I was a little, I kind of thought that like maybe AP would like release something and like suck all the oxygen out of the show the way that like Rolex can or Patek can in the year when they release something like really kind of like noteworthy. I think of like the jigsaw day date, like that's all anyone talked about the year that came out. But that didn't really happen. I feel like they're like AP was sort of an afterthought. And I wonder if they got everything out of this show that they wanted to. I don't know. Do you guys have any thoughts on like the AP like experience of Watches & Wonders?

Speaker 2:
[07:41] Yeah, I don't think anyone was like really talking about them in terms of like hot releases from the show. Not, I don't, I don't, if you were there, I don't know that they were forgotten about just because like the way that you have to walk through to get to the main hall, like it is like the hero booth that you have to see kind of walking straight towards it, which looks really cool. But yeah, I don't know, I feel like they missed a little bit of buzz, but also it's their first show. So maybe they're kind of taking notes and strategizing for the next one.

Speaker 1:
[08:12] I mean, it's their first Watches & Wonders, but they did SIHH for years before this.

Speaker 2:
[08:16] So like they're used to the show.

Speaker 1:
[08:18] It's not like, yeah, so like it's not their first, you know, trade show rodeo or experience in that building. I don't know, Zach, do you have any thoughts on like AP's presence this year?

Speaker 3:
[08:32] Honestly, I think I thought about it more before and more now than I did the entire time during.

Speaker 2:
[08:39] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[08:39] You know, like it wasn't really, people weren't really talking about it in the conversations I was having.

Speaker 1:
[08:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[08:45] And yeah, I mean, I just kind of wonder if, you know, I know there's these long wait lists to get in. Obviously, it's a big decision. There's a whole booth design aspect. Like I wonder if they're kind of on a product release cycle that was going one direction and then the booth kind of launched going another. And then maybe like next year, those things will meet up again.

Speaker 1:
[09:03] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[09:04] So, you know, I did hear there were tours, they were teaching some sort of classes at them, the AP Master Class, they called it, I think. I don't actually know what they were doing in those classes. But like, yeah, we did not have time to do that. So, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[09:16] Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting to see how they, you know, how their presence kind of changes or, you know, or expands next year. Like I do think that there's like an opportunity for them to like, you know, really kind of like do something special there and, and, you know, like kind of like dominate the conversation. But they did not do that this year. And I thought it was an interesting like dichotomy between their presence and like the presence of literally every other brand that like is a little bit more inviting of the public and of the watch industry at large. Because like, I don't know, the message I, you know, I feel like was like we, you know, we're separate but not equal was sort of the vibe I got from just like walking by that booth a number, number of times just felt very, very different. Couple other brands that made their debut, Zach, I know you saw, you spent some time with SIN, SIN making their Watches & Wonders debut. I think for most people who will listen to this podcast and read our website, this is a much bigger deal. I didn't have a meeting with SIN. Kat, I don't know if you did. So Zach, maybe like take us through your SIN impressions.

Speaker 3:
[10:22] Sure, sure.

Speaker 1:
[10:23] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[10:23] I mean, you know, we've always met with SIN. So we would meet with SIN every year at Time to Watches. I met with them every year in Basel. You know, I think the only times we didn't meet with SIN was when we couldn't meet with SIN. So I'm very happy to see them in the hall. I think they fit right in there, especially the section that they were in, you know, because you had like, obviously, the independent section is sort of the newer one that is up on the mezzanine, across from Braymont and you have brands like Nomos up there, Raymond Vial up there, Fredrick Constant, Alpina, I think are up there. You know, so there's a little bit more of like, I don't want to say it's the accessible wing, but it's certainly like more approachable brands seem to be clustered over there than in other places of Pellexpo. And so it's not like, it's not odd, it's not like you're walking, you know, six-figure watch, six-figure watch, you know, or anything like that. And yeah, I mean, they, there's nothing really surprising though about it. It's like it was very sin. There was display cases around the perimeter of a booth, long table in the middle. And you know, they're very, they're very matter of fact, people very matter of fact brand. It was really nice to see them there. They were very happy to be there, which was great. And you know, like I said, I think this is, it's a good move for them, an appropriate move. And in terms of the watch, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[11:40] Yeah, I was gonna ask Zach, like yeah, in terms of the watches, like, what was the standout for you?

Speaker 3:
[11:45] Yeah, yeah, so, you know, they launched their watches like a week or so before Watches & Wonders, and they had two big novelties. One is a time only version of their hunting watch, which I'm not gonna remember the reference number on, but they call it like the Jagger or something like that. It's a beautiful watch, the Chronograph is always beautiful. It's a triple calendar chronograph, great. This green dial with like, you know, kind of a yellowish loom color. One of their more unusual watches. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And it's just, the chronograph is massive, so it's never like a watch I think myself or many other people would consider because of that. It has actually a really cool moon display. So if you look at it, it's like the moon display doesn't have the normal crest, like, crescent-shaped cutouts. And that's because it's not showing you the moon phase. It's showing you when the moon is at its brightest, because that's what matters for hunting. And he was telling me, and I might get this wrong, but I think in Germany, you can't hunt with artificial light at night. So you can only hunt by moonlight.

Speaker 2:
[12:44] I don't know if that's... Yeah, you're right. I've seen that in the press release here for it.

Speaker 3:
[12:50] So it was cool. And it was a time only. It was fit really well. Honestly, super, super attractive watch. Not hunting, but it's one of those things you can totally ignore. But hey, no one else is making a hunting watch. So, you know, kudos to them for doing that and doing it well. But the highlight is definitely the 544. Yeah. So this is a new... It's a new entry-level watch for them, a new three-hander, a small three-hander, very much in line with the 556, which has always sort of been the like enthusiast core model from SIN. You know, it's the three-hand pilot watch, classic case. I think those are 38 or 39 millimeters. It's been a while since I've measured one. And the 544 draws on the lineage of the 144 chronograph, which is also basically in the lineage of the Porsche design Orfinas and all those other like barrel-shaped chronographs. So there's a little three-hand version of that. It's like 42 millimeters lug to lug or something like that. Yeah, that's very small. So it just wears, but it's not tiny in diameter. Once again, 38, 39. I forgot exactly. It wears super nicely. The layout's really nice on it, very straightforward. It's just like, if you're, I don't know, it's a watch I'd see people with 556s also getting, which I think they maybe haven't had like a second to that kind of a watch. It's different enough that you might want to wear both. Yeah, it was just, it's one of those times you put on your wrist, you're like, this is a winner they have here. Every few years, I feel like CIN has done that. They have the U-51s or U-50s. U-50? That was the dive watch, the 41-millimeter dive watch they came out with several years ago and we're all just like, not just us, I mean, collectors at large were like, yeah, this thing is amazing. I think they sold those better than they ever imagined. And I just think they have another hit on their hands. And judging from, there's the most humble people, so you talk to them and they're like, yeah, we had no idea that people are going to like this so much. I was like, really? You didn't? I could have told you. But yeah, it was very cool. I'm going to collect my thoughts a little bit more about that, a little more about it and hands on impression.

Speaker 2:
[15:06] It's a good looking watch. I really like the side profile of it here. It looks super thin.

Speaker 3:
[15:13] And it uses the new Power Plus Alita, so it's got the 65-hour power reserve in it.

Speaker 1:
[15:18] Yep. Every year there are meetings that I can't be at, for one reason or another, and I regret it. And I think the thin meeting is one that jumps to top of mind for me, is one that, yeah, I wish I had been able to see that watch. It looks definitely one of the early, when we were getting press releases in, that was one that really jumped out to me.

Speaker 2:
[15:39] It's hard to see everything.

Speaker 1:
[15:41] Can't see everything, can't see everything. And that's like a, that's something that we...

Speaker 2:
[15:44] We really divided and conquered this year.

Speaker 1:
[15:45] Yeah, we tried to. That's something we can, we can get to that later. There's so much like offsite stuff, like it's just, it's impossible to, for, you know, for one team to see everything. And there are people who do this like solo. I don't know how like you can even begin to do that. Let's move on to, we kind of like go through like, you know, almost like kind of chronologically through our like experience at Watches & Wonders, because I think that sort of like captures most of the brands that we, you know, like really want to like discuss on the podcast. Tudor is always our first meeting at Watches & Wonders. Tudor is one of the brands that does not, one of the few brands, three brands, I think only that, you know, that are, do not send out a press release ahead of time. So we have no idea what Tudor is going to do. Rolex released their watches at midnight the night before the show opened. Tudor released their novelty as the press release came at like, at like 8 a.m., I think, it was like local time. So like, we were literally like on the bus to Palo Expo, like when the Tudor press release came in. So I think maybe, where do you guys want to start with Tudor? You want to cover the, like the completely new piece first? The, man, the name is escaping me. The Monarch, yes, of course, the Monarch. This is, I mean, clearly one of the most like talked about watches of the show. I think there was like, there were really mixed opinions on this, which often happens. I think a lot of people at the show were impressed with it. A lot of people back home who might not have had a chance to see it, were like, what is going on here?

Speaker 2:
[17:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:19] I really like the Monarch a lot. It felt like Tudor doing something a little bit different. It's a brand new case, new dial, new movement, new bracelet. It's just all new.

Speaker 2:
[17:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:30] It felt like a little bit like the P01 moment to me, where they tried something really outside the box, reached into their back catalog in a way that people weren't expecting, and it got a divisive reaction.

Speaker 2:
[17:43] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[17:45] I was a fan of it in the moment, trying it on, it just works for me. What did you guys think? Now that you've had a week or so to process it, what are your thoughts on the Monarch?

Speaker 2:
[17:58] Yeah. I agree with you, Zach. I think this is something that is pretty polarizing amongst the community right now. And I think to the journalists and the media that I saw at the show, everyone really liked it, that was able to get hands on with it. And I think that speaks to how cool this watch is in person. And maybe that doesn't come across in photography and videos. But I can't hate on Tudor. I think a lot of people were upset at Tudor for having a boring year. This is what I saw mostly online. And while I agree that they did some things that were pretty safe, I think this is really out of the box. This is new. And I feel like you can't really put Tudor in that category of totally playing it safe when they actually came out with a brand new watch this year. I really like it. I think it's cool. I think you need to see it in person. Go to your local AD. Try it on before you judge it. But maybe this will have the likes of the Pizzeria. Maybe not as divisive as the Pizzeria one. But I think, yeah, we'll see what happens. I actually hope this stays in their collection. I am excited to see more dial colors down the line. Because the sort of gold is not like my favorite necessarily. But I think like a black dial would be really nice. Or even like an opaline, like white dial would be cool. With maybe blued hands and markers. But yeah, we'll see what happens with it.

Speaker 1:
[19:17] I like it. Zach, what do you think of the Monarch?

Speaker 3:
[19:20] Yeah, I like it too. And I guess, yeah, to your point, Kat, this is probably the most adventurous watch I've seen from Tudor in Watches & Wonders, period. Another variation or new size of a Pelagos or a Black Bay may be what we want, but that's not actually adventurous. This is completely out of the box. Everything was different. There's no, excuse me, there's some different movement. It's a different bracelet. It's a different, like it's completely different. I agree once again, it needs to be seen in person as annoying as that is, but everyone judging it from their couches via Instagram. Like it doesn't, I'm looking at my photos right now and the dial looks like dried custard or something. In person, it's this lovely gold with a very noticeable texture on it. And I guess to me, what was most striking about it, like I need to see it again too, because like I liked it a lot more than I thought, but now I kind of like want to go back and see how I feel about it again on my wrist. I don't think I'll dislike it, but like I'm kind of, like at the fit, I kind of want to see it again.

Speaker 2:
[20:23] To people listening, it was our very first appointment.

Speaker 3:
[20:25] Yeah, first appointment for sure. But for me, what this sort of signals is Tudor's saying we want to do some more classical finishing and play with that. And that's not a direction I think we would have predicted for them. There's much more polishing on this case, which I imagine it could have had to be hand polishing those facets on the sides. The movement itself has Cote de Genève on it, a different rotor, and they're showing it. And they showed movements in the past. It's always been just the same movement, it's like laser-decorated movement, which is cool-looking but industrial. It's like, you know, I think something that people criticize, it's like, there's no finishing on here, kind of like in the classic sense. This is all there, so it makes me think that they are flirting with maybe doing some higher-end dressier pieces that could come out alongside this. Don't know what those would be. But then it's also a very strange design, like the hands are super weird, you know, like the California dial is strange, or the non-error dial, I think is what they sometimes call it, which is funny, because you can't put it on upside down.

Speaker 2:
[21:28] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[21:30] Yeah, I don't know, but it's exciting, like, that's the thing, it's like whether you like it or not, I feel like you have to give it credit for being stimulating and exciting and different and not like lazy, you know, anything like that, you know?

Speaker 1:
[21:44] Yeah, it's definitely not lazy. I think that's one of the things, it just, it always blows me away when we, we're, everyone's in a bubble, you know, at Watches & Wonders, and like, I think the consensus among other like kind of media people that we talk to and just sort of like the vibe around the show was that like The Monarch was like really interesting, and you know, like a pretty notable, like big swing for Tudor. And then you just like read the comments and people are just like, no, like they just like kind of like rejecting it, like out of hand. And I think that'll change, obviously, like there's like things get, are always like very kind of like heated, and those like first moments, because people have like an expectation of something specific, and it doesn't arrive, and they, you know, they react. The watch is like objectively, like very nicely, like nicely executed. It's almost $6,000. So, you know, like pricing, price sensitivity is was another thing that was like discussed a lot last week, you know, both at the show and like in the comments, you know, like back home. Do you guys think this watch is like priced appropriately at almost $6,000?

Speaker 2:
[22:48] I mean, it's high, but I also think that like I put this in sort of the category of a Omega, Aqua Terra or something along the lines, like sporty but refined. And those are $8,000 now. So, I mean, I don't know, I think everything's moving up market sadly, and just kind of where we are. But I was really impressed with the finishing of the watch. I thought like in the hand, it feels like it feels really expensive. I would even say more expensive than holding a Black Bay. Yeah, I would agree. In a lot of ways. So, you know, I guess it's worth that. Obviously, we know that you'll likely be able to find things pre-owned, probably in the not too distant future. If you really want to save a few dollars, maybe ADs give discounts. I don't even know anymore. But yeah, I mean, what's actually worth it? I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[23:36] It's challenging, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[23:37] Everything's expensive.

Speaker 3:
[23:40] And I think it undermines it maybe a bit. But they couldn't have priced it less than they did, given their structure. It is a master chronometer. It does have more finishing. They couldn't have priced it below other things. But I don't think it's helping it at all. If this had been $4,000 or it didn't need to be a master chronometer, probably not for the use case of this watch. But I don't think there will be debuting models that are going to be not master chronometers so much anymore.

Speaker 1:
[24:11] They're definitely positioning it, I think, as a higher end luxury piece. And everything about it is more complicated to make, I would imagine, than a standard black bay or Pelagos. The case is more complicated. It's a new movement. The dial has these pretty... The hands, as you say, are weird, but they're pretty intricate the way that they're skeletonized. So I don't know. The price makes sense to me once you actually handle the watch. It definitely to me feels like a $6,000 watch from a luxury watch brand. So yeah, I don't know. I guess we'll just... All we can really say is check it out.

Speaker 3:
[24:54] It's challenging because you definitely have to couch it in... We're in luxury watch brand mode here. It's like you can't really compare it to an indie brand or something like that because it's just... The multipliers and everything are different. So yeah, exactly. Within the context, it does feel like it does make sense. Now I'm just looking. I'm curious. I haven't looked at Grand Seiko's entry-level prices. I feel like that's actually an interesting challenge there. If you're going to go for a well-finished watch in the 5 to 7K range, I don't think this stands up to a Grand Seiko, per se. But it does stand up to an Omega.

Speaker 1:
[25:33] A lot of Grand Seikos, though, are now closer to 10. That's another brand that has been pushing further up market. We'll get to Grand Seiko in a second. Before we move on from Tudor, I just wanted to get you guys' thoughts on the rest of their releases. I think the other two pretty notable watches that they released are the new Black Bay 54 in that like super saturated blue, which a lot of people are noticing is like veering toward purple. I don't think that's incorrect. I think that's probably a pretty accurate statement. And also the new ceramic Black Bay with the ceramic bracelet. That to me is maybe like the most... That's the one I kind of like the most is that Black Bay with the ceramic bracelet. The ceramic Black Bay is not new, but the bracelet is. And I was really impressed with that bracelet. But do you guys have any thoughts or take aways on either that ceramic watch or sort of like the evolution of the Black Bay 54 that we're seeing?

Speaker 2:
[26:30] Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the Black Bay 54 in blue. I don't quite like the sunburst finishing of the dial so much. And the color just also didn't really do anything for me specifically. But I'm glad that they're offering more in that size. I think the 54 is a great watch. And it makes sense for them to release more iterations of it. And the ceramic was really cool. Yeah, the finishing was great. Yeah, I think Tudor just, I think this year, I just saw a noticeable difference in the level of finishing that they're doing with both the ceramic and then obviously the monarch too.

Speaker 3:
[27:02] Not a fan at all of the Blackway 54 blue. I kind of, you know, I feel like, OK, I may be getting a little trouble for saying this. But everyone who's listening, you're being lied to by most of the photos you have seen of this watch. People are color correcting the hell out of it. And the dial, I've seen ones where it looks like more of a teal. It is not. It is purple. The dial is purple and the dial and the bezel do not match. If you see it where it does, they are color correcting it, period. I mean, that's based on what I saw. I think most of us, unless there's other, these are not final samples, which I don't think they would have shown us. And I don't know if that was a conscious choice or not. It's very weird to me that they don't match, specifically the bezel and dial. And they call it sapphire blue, which I guess, what do you imagine that towards? It's I guess more in the purpley indigo range rather than the teal range. But this hit me as purple, like really touching on purple, not purple-ish almost. And personally not a fan of that. They've done a lot of different blues. It's very funny how they don't just stick to a blue. You'd think that they would have a Tudor blue. They've had that bright Pelagos first and... And the Black Bay 58 blue, which was... That's what this should have been. That was a nice blue. Flat blue. Very like a nice blue, but they're playing off some other trend here. I don't know. Surprising. The ceramic, I think it was super cool. But talking about like a price, a challenging price point, I mean, that one's almost hitting 9K. And I feel like at that point, what are you cross-shopping it with? I guess you're looking IWC or something now, but.

Speaker 2:
[28:50] Yeah. I will say, head to our site, head to our Instagram page. We posted a lot of photos of this Black Bay 54, and we all did very minimal edits to it to show off the dial color. But I agree, most photos I saw on Instagram were very color corrected, where the dial and the bezel were color matched and they aren't. And even including on Tudor's website, they're color matched right now in the picture that I'm looking at. It's like that is not an accurate representation. I also saw last night Trish, who is Watch Girl Live, she was at the Tudor boutique and she took a bunch of really, really high quality photos. And I feel like she captured that dial really well. And it's clear as day that it is like a violet dial. You know?

Speaker 1:
[29:34] I'm not as allergic to like the purple of it all as you are, Zach. I don't mind a purple dial. I don't like purple.

Speaker 3:
[29:39] It's probably my least favorite color for whatever reason.

Speaker 1:
[29:42] Yeah. I think that I kind of like the color, but I don't like it on a watch like this, if that makes sense. I don't know. That wouldn't be the Black Bay 54 I would choose. And honestly, I like the Black Bay 54 a lot. I think that case is really beautiful and it wears so well. I think I might go for that light blue one with the steel bezel, the really reflective one. That might actually be my favorite one right now.

Speaker 3:
[30:14] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[30:16] Yeah, I don't like that one either.

Speaker 3:
[30:17] There's a perfect looking one in black. The other ones, just forget, please.

Speaker 1:
[30:22] That's just like a standard black. I mean, I don't know. I got to add a little pizzazz maybe to it.

Speaker 2:
[30:30] My kind of, I don't know, this is not really a hot take or anything, but I feel like this watch leans very feminine in the color, and as was the last release, and I feel like Tudor is subtly marketing the 54 to women, which makes sense because it is a smaller diver. I just don't see, it's not a very masculine color in person. I don't know, maybe that is their goal, but the color is not terrible on the dial. I really just don't like that the bezel and the dial don't match. I think it looks really odd in person, and it feels like something is wrong, like you put an aftermarket bezel on it or something. So that's really my biggest gripe, it's not the color itself, but just the fact that it doesn't really match the bezel.

Speaker 1:
[31:12] Yeah. Did you guys like the red 58 last year? Because that's what this watch immediately made me think of, the way that it's like this super saturated color.

Speaker 2:
[31:21] I just don't like a sunburst. I don't really like a sunburst on a diver for me, like a more flat color.

Speaker 1:
[31:29] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[31:30] I like them more, but it's like not remotely something I would ever purchase. I'm not like a big red guy.

Speaker 1:
[31:38] Yeah. Red's tough. I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[31:40] Red is very tough.

Speaker 1:
[31:41] I don't think I'm a red guy.

Speaker 3:
[31:42] But that one was like you kind of like, oh, there's something fun and funky about this, you know, and like.

Speaker 1:
[31:46] Yeah. There was also like a story that went along with it. Like it was based on a prototype of a Tudor sub. And like it was like they were drawing on some like, you know, Tudor heritage there ostensibly. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see like where these watches kind of like end up in the wild, you know, and how like people start reacting to them again, like as they start appearing in these in boutiques, because they're already there. So, you know, you can go to your local Tudor outpost and see these watches now. And that's something brands are doing, are doing a very good job of these last few years of getting these novelties like into boutiques and ADs like right away. All right, let's move on to Grand Seiko. Grand Seiko is usually the second meeting that we take at Watches & Wonders. And the big release here is their new Ushio dive watches that are exactly what people have been asking for from Grand Seiko for years. It is a medium sized dive watch, relatively thin, with an updated bracelet with micro adjust and a really good movement.

Speaker 2:
[32:48] Is that your cat, Zach? Can you hear him?

Speaker 1:
[32:52] Your cat is a big fan of these Grand Seikos.

Speaker 3:
[32:53] He is chosen to howl right now in the doorway. I don't know what is going on. And then my other cat is like attempting to get into my radiator right next to me. So it is like this metal is slamming and it is just the fingers.

Speaker 1:
[33:02] This isn't the time that we normally record the podcast. So the cat's rhythm is probably off. The cats are very confused.

Speaker 3:
[33:08] Yeah, it is true. They are usually sleepy in the afternoon, but not right now.

Speaker 1:
[33:11] So anyway, this Grand Seiko on paper is what everyone has been asking for for years. Again, the reaction from the outside world is just real mixed, really mixed at best. I thought these watches were pretty successful. I thought in person they worked pretty well. You guys, I think you both had a chance to see them before the show, right?

Speaker 2:
[33:35] I did not see it before.

Speaker 1:
[33:37] Zach, you did. What are your overall thoughts on these new dive watches from Grand Seiko?

Speaker 3:
[33:45] Yeah, it's funny. I think there's a real lesson here in giving the people what they want, kind of a thing, which is that they'll never be satisfied. For sure. It'll never be done the right way, etc. Personally, I wouldn't go to Grand Seiko for a dive watch. That's just not to me what the brand is about. But if you've been waiting on it, they put all the things together for you, finally. But if you're expecting some very elaborate design from them as well, then you don't understand the brand and how they approach dive watches. They're very, very pragmatic. That's been the thing that's limited them on producing this watch in the past. Whenever you talk to them about it, they're like, well, it has to have been robust in these ways. It has to be simple to service in these ways. XYZ. These are all the reasons or excuses, however you want to see it, that they wouldn't have made a smaller dive watch. But Seiko knows how to make small dive watches. So it's like, clearly this was a choice for a very long time. And now they claim that they have the reason, they are able to with their new movement, and it achieves the standards they want to with a Grand Seiko diver. That's kind of maybe the bottom line. They always just had this line that they put somewhere and they wanted to achieve it. And it's smaller and it's got the clasp and it's got the super accurate movement and it's got the pretty dial and the colors and it's $12,400. And if that's not what you wanted, I'm sorry, you know? And I agree it's expensive. And like I said, I wouldn't be buying this. There's plenty of really good dive watches under that price. But if you wanted this, they gave it to you. And it just, you know, it kind of is what it is. And like prices have been moving up. They use the most fancy, well not fancy in terms of decoration, but like high tech movement currently available. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

Speaker 1:
[35:40] Kat, thoughts on the...

Speaker 2:
[35:43] I always thought like the market for, you know, this diver in the Grand Seiko collection is very niche. I think the person that buys this watch isn't, they're not the collector that's out there looking for the dive watch in their collection. I think the person that buys this watch is like a Grand Seiko collector. And they don't want to buy a sub, and they don't want to buy a Tudor, and they don't want to buy an Omega, and they don't want to buy any other brand. Like they want to buy a Grand Seiko because they are a Grand Seiko collector. So I don't think this is ever going to appeal to like the masses. I will say like it does wear very well. It's very nice. Yeah, it's expensive, but I just was looking at like what the price of the, like a sub is nowadays, and it's just over $10,000. So there's that, but yeah, I just like, I don't think this was ever meant to like appeal to everybody. I think everyone's sort of like in the back of their mind wants like a really cool Grand Seiko diver, but in reality, they don't. I don't know. It's like a, it's a dream for a lot of people. And I feel like they're never gonna land on like, like people basically want Grand Seiko to just make a sub, like a sub alternative, and that's never gonna happen. Like Grand Seiko is always gonna do it their way.

Speaker 1:
[36:57] Well, I think this is it. Like this is their sub alternative. Like this is like sort of-

Speaker 2:
[37:00] Closest you can get.

Speaker 1:
[37:01] It competes directly with the sub and with like the higher end omega divers, like the new planet oceans, I guess. And, you know, for the people who are saying, it's like, I've heard a lot of criticisms that it's too thick and that it's too expensive, but like compare it like spec for spec with the sub and the new planet oceans. And it's like, it's pretty like, it's, it's comparable in both cases to those watches. And it also offers like, you know, unique things that those watches don't, you know, and all those watches offer something like, you know, that is unique to those, you know, to those brands. I think the thing...

Speaker 3:
[37:36] It also didn't feel thick to me.

Speaker 2:
[37:38] No, it didn't feel thick either.

Speaker 1:
[37:39] Yeah, no, it's not.

Speaker 3:
[37:40] It's lightweight.

Speaker 1:
[37:41] These are the...

Speaker 3:
[37:41] It's under 13 millimeters. And once again, they build things to a certain standard. I think probably part of that is that their bezel assembly is going to be big and chunky and disassemblable. Yeah, I don't know. What is it? Everyone wanted everything they could get in this. And it's like, I'm just looking at Seiko right now. And their Marine Masters are $2,800. Just go buy them. Like, if you're complaining about this, like Seiko really makes a lot of good divers, you know?

Speaker 2:
[38:13] Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[38:16] It kind of sucks, though, just because Grand Seiko did it. Like, they finally did it. They gave you what you wanted. And it just goes to prove you never actually wanted it.

Speaker 1:
[38:25] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[38:26] You know?

Speaker 2:
[38:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:27] I have a feeling they'll be able to sell these watches to the Grand Seiko collectors that Kat's describing. Like, they, I think, will appreciate what they're doing here. I think mainly because of the, like, that UFA movement is, like, is pretty special. And the fact that they, like, it was just introduced last year and they've already adapted it, you know, into a, you know, into a dive watch. Like, it is technically a different movement. They moved the power reserve to the front. So it's, you know, technically, you know, a new caliber based on that caliber that they introduced last year. And it's, like, it's scarily accurate. Like, I don't think people quite grasp, like, how, you know, how good that movement is in terms of, like, the chronometry of it. It's the, you know, Grand Seiko refers to it as the most accurate watch with a mainspring, I think, is how they put it, you know, that they, that they're aware of. So it's, like, a very special movement. It's their own, you know, titanium alloy that, like, you know, it's, like, almost impossible to scratch. There's a lot of stuff going on in this watch that is, like, kind of, you know, very Grand Seiko and very special. And I think that $12,000 is, frankly, like, a pretty appropriate price, given, like, the competition and where Grand Seiko sits in the market.

Speaker 3:
[39:37] It's not lacking in features, certainly, certainly. And the dials are actually generally beautiful. I mean, they did a really nice job with that, like, ripple texture, and it's a really nice blue and a really nice green.

Speaker 2:
[39:46] I like the green.

Speaker 3:
[39:47] And, yeah, you know, to your point about the accuracy, I was kind of joking about the Seiko before, but, you know, it's like, I think if that's what you're picturing, the Marine Master is there, and that's always going to be what Seiko does. That watch is plus 15 to minus 10 seconds per day. Mm-hmm, yeah. Had to put a year on that instead of a day, and you have, so it's like, I don't even know what the magnitude of difference that is. That's like thousands of percents more accurate or something, probably.

Speaker 1:
[40:13] Yeah, yeah. There were some other cool Grand Seiko releases. I really like that hand-engraved platinum piece that they showed us. The sample they had wasn't platinum, but the engraving was like still like incredibly cool. Yeah, they had a pretty good year. I mean, obviously, like really focused on those divers. Maybe not as like, I think, you know, this is a trend that we saw, like not as much exciting stuff. Is it like another pretty iterative year, which is something that we saw, you know, kind of like across the board last year. But these like kind of marquee brands that we focus on all had something cool to show us. You guys both saw Rolex. We got to talk a little bit about Rolex. I did not see Rolex. They focused on Oyster Perpetual this year. There was a new Daytona. Talk about very expensive watches. I have some questions about the pricing on that one. Give me your kind of like overall impressions of your Rolex experience at this Watches & Wonders.

Speaker 2:
[41:19] I mean, my experience is the same as every other year. I think that they had a lot of stuff. I mean, when I took our meeting, they were just passing watches through and through. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that really doesn't get talked about, a lot of sort of diamond bezel stuff that I think actually was really nice. Obviously, yeah, the big talk was the Daytona and the OPs, both like the 100-year celebration and then the Jubilee motif dial, which was, again, pretty polarizing looks to me. I actually liked it, like the 70s vibe of it, but it's kind of a love it or hate it watch based on a lot of the comments I've seen. But yeah, like to me, it was just like another year for Rolex. They have a lot of pieces that a lot of people are going to like, and yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else to say. Seemed like a pretty standard year in my opinion.

Speaker 1:
[42:18] Zach, you made a video on Rolex where you basically had the same.

Speaker 3:
[42:23] Can we talk about that video?

Speaker 1:
[42:24] Yeah, let's talk about the video.

Speaker 3:
[42:26] Because it was very early the next day. I'd been out late.

Speaker 2:
[42:29] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[42:30] And I was under the impression I was recording a reel, not a video for YouTube. So I wasn't very loquacious. I just said what came to the top of it. And then I tried to get over with. I didn't even remember the Yachtmasters had come out in that time because I was just boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 2:
[42:46] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[42:46] So don't.

Speaker 1:
[42:48] Never forget the Yachtmaster.

Speaker 3:
[42:50] Never forget the Yachtmaster. Don't judge my take too hard on that.

Speaker 2:
[42:54] I actually think you got a lot of praise.

Speaker 3:
[42:57] I know. And that says so much though, because it's just like, everyone wants you to be negative and whatever. And I was honestly, I was just more like.

Speaker 2:
[43:06] It was early. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[43:08] But it's more than that. I just, I have no passion either way. You know what I mean? And like, that's kind of Rolex for me though. And like always, they make very confident watches. They're a very important brand. Kind of don't, sorry, you just fell behind me.

Speaker 1:
[43:25] Neither does your cat.

Speaker 3:
[43:26] Here's my cat, he's really having a blast, knocking stuff off my shelf right now. But you know what I mean? Like last year was different. They had a land dweller and the land dweller, once again judged the watch itself, had a new movement, judged the movement itself, whatever. It's fascinating. It's something to talk about. And that's kind of what I like to get into. I'm not a customer of this brand and the whole way to become a customer of this brand is so bizarre to me that I would never want to be a customer of this brand at the current way it's done. So like on catalog, off catalog, expensive, inexpensive, it's all sort of absurd to me, you know? So I kind of just want to take a step back and then just enjoy it, like either just be purely aesthetic about it. And that's here to me was aesthetics. Like the 100 year OP is a very nice looking watch. I like that it wasn't too much gold. So on 41, I think in 36, that might be a very nice watch to wear. It's probably going to be extremely hard to get. It's a collectible, right? Jubilee, I thought I'd hate it. I didn't hate it. The colors are kind of fun. I wouldn't be wearing it. I'm probably never going to wear it. But they're a funny brand because I know a guy with a celebration. He has it because they offered it to him because he's a customer. So he didn't seek out to buy it, but then he bought it because it was all, you know, which is also a whole twisted thing with the brands. The only watches I did not, purely did not like were the Yachtmasters. They are just big, tacky, just watch it. But they, I mean, they're Yachtmasters, though. So at least it's like it's on the, it's in the name, you know, these aren't subtle watches for subtle people. They're like, you know.

Speaker 1:
[45:02] It's no longer on the bezel, though, right? They took Yachtmaster II off the bezel, I think.

Speaker 3:
[45:07] I have so little memory of it, honestly. The only thing I remember is that the chronograph functions run backwards. The time goes by, and that was kind of neat mechanically. It, they did say it's their most, like, complicated movement currently in their collection, which I think is interesting. But yeah, I don't know, stone dials, gold, a new gold, can't really remember the name of it. It's not on their website with a green adventuring dial.

Speaker 1:
[45:33] Yeah. So that's one of the weird things about this year's releases, is they were actively promoting, I believe, two off-catalog watches, that Day-Date that you mentioned, Zach, and the new gold alloy with the green adventuring dial, and this Daytona with the enamel dial, and the steel platinum case. Those are both technically off-catalog releases, but at least at midnight, when the news dropped, that Daytona was on the front of their website. So that is a circle I cannot swear, or whatever the phrase is.

Speaker 2:
[46:08] I don't think it is anymore. I'm on their website now, and if you click new watches, it's there, but it's not on the forefront. It's like you kind of have to scroll through quite a bit.

Speaker 3:
[46:20] I don't think you'd be able to find it in the Daytona section, because you're not supposed to be able to select it or something, when you can configure their watches.

Speaker 1:
[46:29] It's just so interesting to me that they, I mean, it's not really all that interesting. It's notable, I guess, that they're presenting these things as off-catalog, and they clearly want people to talk about them, but they're hyper rare, hyper exclusive. I don't know, it just seems kind of, I don't know, it's all very silly. Yeah, so we'll...

Speaker 3:
[46:50] And the watch, once again, I know people are up at arms about it, and the price and everything, and two-tone watch with a platinum case back, like is, once again, that is just a ridiculous thing to do, to put a platinum case back on a steel mid-case, whatever. But the watch was nice looking.

Speaker 2:
[47:09] Yeah, it was nice looking.

Speaker 3:
[47:10] You don't need to break it to you. The enamel dial, this multi-layer enamel dial was beautifully executed, and the gray...

Speaker 2:
[47:15] The bezel is cool.

Speaker 3:
[47:16] It's beautiful.

Speaker 2:
[47:18] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[47:18] Oh, well. Too bad.

Speaker 1:
[47:23] Let's move on from Rolex. Let's move on from the big brands. And we can each talk a little bit about some watches that surprised us a little bit in one way or another, or a brand that did a particularly nice job of bringing their new watches to market. I'll start with a watch that I had very low expectations of going into the meeting and really kind of charmed me. And then, of course, the reaction was like incredibly, mostly negative. But it's which also kind of like, you know, amps me up a little bit naturally. But Braymont has a new chronograph, an entirely new line devoted to space exploration, the Supernova, which is a collection that they'll build off of going forward. Supernova Chronograph is, the best way I could put this is it's kind of like, it feels like it's in the vein of like a Royal Oak Offshore kind of. It's like a big kind of brash sports watch. And when I saw this watch in the press release for this watch, I was really, like honestly, kind of like turned off. I didn't find it to be like particularly attractive looking. The specs didn't look particularly interesting. I just didn't quite get it. In person, I thought that like it all really worked. Like it's not real steel. So like it's very like it's very nicely finished. It feels great. It's big. It's like it's very chunky. But it's kind of like a watch that like feels like it's supposed to be like big and chunky. I really like the way that they do this like DLC coating the case band and the like I love the contrast of the bezel on the steel. It's a ceramic, black ceramic bezel. It's just like a really cool angular case. And the dial for me really works in person as well. It has this kind of like grid pattern with loom underneath it. And it just looks really cool when it's loomed up. The thing I enjoy about this watch is that like this really feels like Braymont like doing something completely different from like old Braymont. Like for the first time, like that initial crop of watches, like everyone kind of like ragged on like two or three years ago whenever they made their Watches & Wonders debut. Those watches were like kind of a debacle because they seem to be kind of like going halfway into like Braymont heritage, but also wanting to like stake out like some new ground. This feels like it's entirely new ground to me. And like I appreciate that they're just sort of going for it with something strange with a new collection that doesn't feel tied to like the old brand at all. And I talked to Davide Cerrato last year at the New York Watch Days, and he kind of made allusions to like the sort of like toxic element in the Braymont community that was like so tied to like the English brothers and like what they did, you know, the brand, like their aesthetic and like their perspective and wanting to shift away from that. And this feels like the watch that's really doing that. So it's kind of like a watch that's sort of like a, I don't know, it feels almost like a middle finger. And it's in some ways to like the people who are sort of like, you know, clamoring for the old Braymont, which was a brand and company that was like not financially successful and like did not really work, you know, in a lot of ways. So this is them like doing something a little bit different. Zach, I don't know if you saw this watch in person. Kat, I know you did because you filmed some content with it. What were your thoughts when you saw this watch?

Speaker 2:
[50:57] I think like the concept is really cool and it certainly gives you sort of space feels.

Speaker 1:
[51:07] That was the theme of this year. There was a lot of space stuff going on.

Speaker 2:
[51:09] There was a lot of space. Yeah. A lot of space exploration stuff. But yeah, I don't think like the case or... I mean, yeah, I don't think the watch like did much for me personally. It's just not my style of watch that I would ever like seek out to buy.

Speaker 1:
[51:28] Yeah. Fair enough.

Speaker 2:
[51:29] It seems more like a concept watch in a way to me.

Speaker 1:
[51:32] To be clear, I'm not buying this watch. This is not a watch that I would like seek out to buy either. I was just like...

Speaker 3:
[51:36] It's bad. You have to buy it. Everyone thought you were going to buy it and you had to buy it.

Speaker 1:
[51:39] I'm not buying it. I'm not buying any. This, Braymond or any Braymond in the near future. But it just... It helps to keep your mind open, I think. Because I was ready to hate this watch based on the press release, and I did not hate it.

Speaker 2:
[51:56] I didn't hate it.

Speaker 1:
[51:57] I think that's something that people who are viewing these things from home, when they see those first renders of the new Tudor or whatever, and think like, oh, the Monarch, what the hell? What the hell are they thinking? Allow yourself to be surprised by something because you might enjoy it.

Speaker 2:
[52:15] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[52:15] I think you highlighted something very interesting too, when you were talking about this old Braemont versus new Braemont, which I think now I'm looking at things and setting some trends like the old Braemont was a vintage-inspired traditional British menswear-inspired. The Giles and Nick are dudes who wore Barber every day, I'm certain. This is a very classic style and now there's this rejection of that, it seems, from the new brand. They want to break away from that. I think if you were to take a larger look at that, I think we're just seeing also or starting to see a rejection of the vintage reissue because clearly there's customers for these things. Now, directly across from Braymont into the little hall is Norcain, a thoroughly modern brand too, doing I think very similar things to this and also quite successful right now. And it's like this large, brash, high-end, I don't know, like Miami dude watch is coming back, I think, you know, the Hublot, Richard Millet, that kind of stuff. Like, I think we're starting to see a return to that, a rejection of all things good and, but I think that's, you know, I think that's what Braymont is starting to lean into, potentially wisely, for a larger mass market success. And yeah, the extremeness of this watch, you know, you said the Royal Oak Offshore, like that has always been there too, that's one of those watches. Like, this design very much feels like that in, what I'm seeing, what I didn't see in person, I'm just looking at it more closely now. Yeah, it's very bombastic and good time to lean to space, obviously the Artemis II, like so the timing was good. There's some dial elements here, I think are really appealing. I don't know if I like the watch overall, because of it's got that, like it's just too aggressive for me. But yeah, I don't know, I think it's overall interesting. I'll be really interested long term to see if this is successful and if they lean into it, you know, there's two watches, right? The Chronograph and a $52,000 Tourillon as well, which is a statement unto itself that they think they have a customer for that.

Speaker 1:
[54:29] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[54:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:32] The other watch, they released, like just to just kind of like balance the discussion on like the vintage reissue, the vintage-inspired stuff is like they also have a Chronograph with literal vintage movements that have been refurbished, vintage Valjoux movements.

Speaker 3:
[54:47] Oh really? Okay. Never mind everything I said. Next to that.

Speaker 1:
[54:50] I think it's a good point. Like they're leaning into modern in a way that like the brand is like never really done. They still do have like, they're keeping like a finger in like the vintage stuff because they know that they have people who will go for that. But I think that like, this is clearly from the brain of Davide Cerrato, like wanting to like you know, like move past like the brand that he came into, you know, three or four years ago now, so.

Speaker 3:
[55:18] This Felgier 23 one is pretty interesting.

Speaker 1:
[55:21] Yeah, so like that one.

Speaker 3:
[55:22] I somehow totally missed this.

Speaker 1:
[55:24] That one did nothing for me. Like I thought that like the, so I mean, cool movement obviously, like historic movement and cool idea. But like, I found that dial to be like very flat, kind of unappealing, like it's not, like that one just like didn't work at all.

Speaker 3:
[55:36] The dial to me doesn't look very good. And the aesthetic is old Braymont. It looks just like a very, the top down photo on their website, not high res or anything like that, is very like just stamped looking, you know? It's got that like, it doesn't particularly look high end. But the movement finishing, oh, this looks incredible. You know, it's sort of like Singer did this the other year where they got old stock movements, but didn't just service them, they completely redecorated them. And you can see that here. That looks pretty impressive. You know, I don't know if that's really Braymonds thing per se, but it is interesting. Once again, it's really funny how these things are juxtaposed because I had a Raymond Weil meeting and Raymond Weil just did this as well and they sold through these watches with, it also might have been a Valjous 23, or something very similar. That watch was $9,000. Not quite as decorated, but there was some decoration. I was one of the, that watch is so cool. The Milsime, I'm jealous of people who were able to pick that up a little bit.

Speaker 1:
[56:37] Kat, was there a release that surprised you or something from a brand that maybe you weren't expecting or just like any other, what was the under the radar highlight maybe for you?

Speaker 2:
[56:46] Something I wasn't expecting. I'll say like, I actually really like the Norcain Wild, the X-Lite Wild one that they did. I'm not quite a fan of the Skeleton Dial. I feel like if they did this watch, I know the whole point is making it lighter though, so I understand why they didn't do like a solid dial on it. But it was incredibly light. I think it was 44, 45 grams, I think. But yeah, I put it on the wrist, I thought it was a really cool watch, and it was very light, very sporty. I like the black and sort of like banana yellow color way that they did with it. And, you know, Norkain seems to again be leaning towards the more extreme. They're working with a lot of athletes now, skiers, hockey players, tennis players. And so, yeah, they're making watches that can be worn during all these really strenuous activities and stuff. But yeah, it was a surprise for me. I'm not a huge fan of the Wild One in general, but I really like this one on the wrist. And another call out, which isn't like shockingly surprising, but I really like the Cartier. I think it's the Santos Dumont with the Obsidian dial. I don't know if you guys got to see that one. That was really cool. Oh yeah. Yeah. I love the bracelet. That was so nice. And yeah, the Obsidian dial with the gold, like just a great pairing. So that was a standout for me.

Speaker 1:
[58:12] Yeah, the Cartier. Couple of really good Cartier bracelets this year. There's the one you mentioned, that like very fine, you know, Saint-Estumont bracelet in gold. And then the bracelet they've done before, I believe, the Platinum Tank Normale bracelet. Like that's one of my favorite watches of the show. Just like really so cool to see like such a, like a small watch all in Platinum. And like you think it's going to be light and wear like a small watch, and it's like it's so freaking heavy, because it's like all this Platinum, which is like a really cool thing.

Speaker 2:
[58:46] It's always one of my favorite appointments, and I usually take the photo appointment and they just put us in a room with like 30 watches and they're like go ham, and they can take what you want.

Speaker 1:
[58:56] Cartier is fun. Yeah, there's no other meeting quite like Cartier. And Zach, how about you? Anything you want to highlight that you, you know, maybe has been a little unheralded to this point, that you saw in Watches & Wonders, or like events outside Watches & Wonders, we can kind of like jump into like some of the, you know, Geneva, greater Geneva stuff too.

Speaker 2:
[59:13] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[59:13] It's the challenge. It's like there's a lot, I think, you know, which to pick, of course. So probably like my favorite thing I saw over the weekend that I can talk about. I'll preface that because we saw a lot of amazing stuff that just isn't out yet. Just so frustrating. You're sitting there, you're like, I just want to talk about this, but then you can't. The Nitton Jump Hour. So it was a watch I was really looking forward to seeing and it just lived up to the hype I built up for it in myself, in my own head. Just like really beautiful ultra high-end watchmaking, but not ostentatious ultra high-end watchmaking. You know, it's like the most stealth wealth looking watch, I think, I've seen like that. It's just beautiful. Just like it just was so beautiful. I wish I had 70K or whatever it is that it costs. Some other just quick highlights. Last year, I didn't get, that's what I did. I missed when Trilo came out with their in-house movement and their new integrated bracelet watch. Maybe it was Geneva Watch Days last year. That's possible. But whatever it is, I didn't see it. So I got to see it this year. And it was just super nice. Like they just, not that I expected it not to be, but there's still some innovation to be had in these integrated watches, which I'm so sick of seeing. But at the same time, when they're nice, you know, they're nice and this is a beautiful one, movements nuts looking, in-house movement that they're saying, made in France, whereas their other movement was made with a partner. Their novelty, though, they have these, they do these secret dials where you give them your birthday and they'll put the night sky from your birthday or other special date on the dial. That's kind of cool. Yeah, and they're very cool and kind of mystical looking. The blue on this, so compare this to the Tudor blue. This blue is a blue PVD with a blue lacquer on it, and not quite the same colors. What you get is a shifting blue that has this crazy depth to it that doesn't even look real. It was absolutely stunning. It veers towards that kind of indigo purple, but this one I would wear in a heartbeat because it was just like it has this kind of intense depth to it. Yeah, I haven't seen too many people talking about that. But the one, just to throw in the one, I think I'm the only person talking about this, so it's going to be my little watch from the year, is the new Hot Lens, like Cubic, I don't even know what it's called. I'll look that up, Cubica, Quberta or something like that. But it's this entry level Hot Lens, quotes around that, $35,000 or something dollars there. In just this incredible case, it looks nothing like Hot Lens as you imagine it. It's small and wearable. It's Art Deco, but Art Deco meets those giant dystopian structures from Blade Runner kind of a thing. Interesting. Incredible texture on it. Really interesting dial. It's a module on a Le Jouperet, a new Le Jouperet movement. I think they're, $35,000 is an ambitious price for an ambitious brand, but they're also for a certain customer. I'm going to leave it at that. I don't even want to know what the costs and margins are for it. But it stuck with me and every time I go back and look at a photo of it, I'm like, it was just super cool, you know, and different and like completely off from any other trends or anything, it just, you know, other than the jump hour aspect of it, it didn't really feel like, I felt like they designed it not looking at watches, you know.

Speaker 1:
[62:42] Yeah. Yeah. I, next year, I'm going to make a Hoftland appointment because this is, I think, like the second or third year in a row where you had one and you came away really impressed with something from that brand. And I just haven't, I've just missed them the last few years. So I'm definitely going to do that next year. Before we close out, I just wanted to ask you guys quickly about, like, the scene outside of Palo Expo. Like, we spend, you know, it's always kind of like, one of the things that we talk about with our, you know, other, like, kind of like watch media colleagues is like, how much time are you spending in Palo Expo this year? When are you out of here? Because the strategy seems to be to, like, see as much as you can at Palo Expo in, like, a couple of days and then spread out to, like, you know, the other shows, Time to Watches, Chronopolis this year, Beau Rovage, other boutiques, etc. It just really speaks to, like, the amount of stuff, like, that we're asked to see. Like, it's just becoming, like, more and more. And, like, this year, it really felt like people were saying, it's a problem. Like, it's making it harder for us to sort of, like, cover the show in the way that we want to. That was a theme that emerged in, like, my conversations with other people who do what we do is it's like, this is, like, becoming, like, a challenge in a way that, like, it hasn't been before. I felt that this year.

Speaker 2:
[63:59] I did, too.

Speaker 1:
[64:00] And also, I felt like there was, like, more good stuff outside of Pal Expo that I missed. I wish we had, like, another person or more time or both.

Speaker 2:
[64:09] You and me didn't get a time to Watches, which kind of sucked because I would have liked to have gone, but we just didn't have the time. And, yeah, I agree, Zach. I think this year, in particular, I felt like in years past, maybe we've had a little bit more working time in between meetings. Really didn't have that this year. So it was strictly, like, meeting, meeting, meeting. Grab a quick bite, meeting, meeting, meeting. And I didn't have the time that, you know, we usually have to, like, edit photos or edit as many videos. And we had a team of four there, and it was still sort of a struggle to get that stuff up and going as best we could. And I'm finding I have a lot of stuff now, you know, after the fact, and assets and videos and things like that, that we'll probably be still sharing. But yeah, just like there's really not a lot of working time anymore, so you almost need, like, two teams. You need one there and, like, maybe one back at home, sort of, like, tag-teaming things a little bit more. But I certainly am, like, gonna be thinking about our strategy for next year a lot more now, just considering how busy the show is and how much there is to see outside of Plexpo, too. And everything seems to be growing, and it sounds like gonna be growing next year more. So with the amount of brands showing there, it's just, you almost need, like, yeah, seven, like, seven full days to, like, see everything. And, you know, we did it all in, like, five?

Speaker 1:
[65:32] Yeah. Five. And I don't think we want to be there for seven days. Like, that seems like, that seems like a lot. Yeah, it's just, I mean, it's a, I guess it's a good problem to have, it's like, it shows some health, you know, in the watch industry that, like, there's so much to do. It's just, like, the logistics are hard. And everything is, like, getting, it's just, it's all very decentralized, you know, increasingly decentralized. But, yeah, I think, Zach, you'll probably agree that, like, the, like, the real, like, the stuff that we're really interested in is, like, outside of Palo Expo. Like, it's in, it's in the city of Geneva. And it's at, like, these smaller shows. Is it the Beau Revange?

Speaker 3:
[66:13] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[66:14] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[66:14] It's a bit, it's a mix. I mean, because they're also, the independent areas of, like, Palo Expo also feel like they've grown a lot. And it's really hard to balance it all. I did make it to every single event for at least a little while. But, like, literally, Liam and I are at Time to Watches. And I looked at, I looked at my watch at Time to Watches. It's a weird thing to say. And it's like, knowing we had to get the shuttle back to Geneva Center to get to a meeting we had scheduled at Pellexpo, like, we just had to stop at a certain point and just walk away. And, like, there were brands I really did want to see, or just say hi to sometimes. That's also part of it. These are brands you don't get to see in person often. And it's just, these are people we know and are friendly with. And even for five minutes or something. And it's also because of this, and, you know, maybe there are brands listening. Like, if we were resistant to make meetings with you at some of these, it's because of the kind of, you know, fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants methodology to get to these that we were taking, you know? And it's like, you kind of want to run through them and come up to a corner of a booth and just be like, hey, what do you got? What's new? Good to see you. All right, I'm out of here. Because, like, that's sort of what it permits for. But yeah, it's a challenge. I mean, there were, even in, you know, we went to Beau Ravage and met with a few brands. And, like, it's great we were, like, really good friends with them. It's bad because then we ended up talking to them for a while. But, like, there were tables to the right and left of me I desperately wanted to get to. And I just didn't. And then the place closed down at six. And, like, everyone was leaving. And I was like, shit.

Speaker 2:
[67:44] Well, now I gotta go.

Speaker 3:
[67:47] So, yeah, I don't know how to make, how to do it better, not just in terms of the company, but, like, how do I literally see more when I can't be in more places?

Speaker 2:
[67:54] I know.

Speaker 3:
[67:54] You know. At least we learned we could go to Beau Ravage the Monday that we arrived. But it's also, like, half out of it on that day. It's not ideal.

Speaker 2:
[68:02] Might be worth trying to make use of the time, though.

Speaker 3:
[68:06] I think next year, we'll go back. But also, you know, we had plans that night. I had the Universal Geneva Grand Partais.

Speaker 2:
[68:14] I just have to call out, like, this is the first year that I stayed so late at Plex, so we missed all the shuttles back.

Speaker 3:
[68:20] Really?

Speaker 2:
[68:21] Had to find a ride. Yeah, which was not bad. There was taxis, you know, there, but I had that Rolex appointment was so late, by the time we got out of it. Yeah, the shuttles were stopped at that point, so missed them.

Speaker 1:
[68:34] Maybe a blessing in disguise because sometimes those shuttles do not come at the posted times.

Speaker 2:
[68:39] Yeah. They were never exactly on time in the mornings. They were always like a couple of minutes earlier or later, actually. I missed one one morning. I saw you guys. I saw both of you actually in the window as it was passing.

Speaker 1:
[68:52] Yeah. Yeah, the irony there.

Speaker 2:
[68:56] It's two minutes early.

Speaker 1:
[68:59] We'll have a lot more content on the website and on social media from Watches & Wonders Week. I think we've gotten probably more content than anyone could possibly ask for from our week in June.

Speaker 3:
[69:11] You better read it all.

Speaker 1:
[69:14] You better please. Yeah. So more to come. This has already been a long episode, but I did ask you guys to prepare some cultural recs based on whatever you watched on the plane tour from Geneva, or on what I expect if you're anything like me, was a very chill day where you did absolutely nothing upon returning from Geneva, Kat. Anything, any good plane viewing or couch potato viewing for you?

Speaker 2:
[69:42] Plane viewing, absolutely. I'll shout these out pretty quickly. One, these were both on the way back, which I luckily was able to upgrade to a business. So I was able to have a little cubby and I laid down and watched movies on the way back, which was really nice. I watched a movie called Belfast, which I had just actually been in Ireland right before my trip to Geneva, and I had never seen this movie. It was written and directed by Kenneth Branagh. I think it was up for some big nominations.

Speaker 1:
[70:10] Yeah, it was an Oscar movie that came out.

Speaker 2:
[70:12] Yeah, I thought it was really great. It was excellent. It's a coming-of-age story during the, what do they call it? The Troubles of Belfast and the protests and everything. But it was actually really good. Then the second movie I watched, which was really surprising, I thought this was going to be really cheesy, which was Song Sung Blue with Hugh Jackman, Kate Hudson. And I thought it was really good. And I got teary-eyed as I was watching it. And Kate Hudson, I thought did a really, probably the best role I've actually seen her in ever. So I thought she did a great job.

Speaker 1:
[70:49] Yeah, I like both of those movies. I also watched Belfast on a plane, by the way. Cool. Several years ago now. But I like the movie quite a bit. I did not care for Song Sung Blue.

Speaker 2:
[71:02] Yeah. If you're not an old diamond fan, it's definitely not for you. But I thought it was a cute movie.

Speaker 1:
[71:10] Yeah. Zach, how about you?

Speaker 3:
[71:13] These flights are blurring together. So I was in Switzerland two weeks ago, on Swiss Air. And I've watched so many movies. I don't sleep on planes. So like so many movies. Like I can't remember what I watched on the flight over even. But like back, I too got to upgrade. There was a last minute upgrade and I jumped on it because it was within this acceptable price bracket for a long flight home. It's like nine hours is worth it. And it was also all watch industry in there. We had a little area in the lounge, like it was a bunch of media and retailers and stuff. But so this is actually ended up being really funny. And I didn't think about this before I watched it. Once I started, it occurred to me. But I did like a Timothée Chalamet marathon. I watched Marty Supreme, which I hadn't seen before. And really, really enjoyed it. I was surprised. I feel like I'd heard really mixed things about it. I know you liked it. But then I feel like I heard mixed things otherwise. And it's funny seeing that and like having seen other Safdie films or Safdie Brothers films, it's not brothers, but like, it's like uncut gems sort of in the sense of it's like a, you know, anxiety inducing the spiral and you know, everything go wrong kind of thing. But like made far more palatable, whereas like uncut gems is just a brutal movie.

Speaker 1:
[72:29] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[72:29] But I really liked it. Anyway, then I fell in love with Dune 2, which also has some very, like I realized like they're kind of similar character, like very different worlds.

Speaker 1:
[72:41] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[72:41] You know, he's maybe like driven by pure ego in both cases. Yeah. But that was good. And then I rewatched Heretic, which-

Speaker 1:
[72:54] Yeah, Heretic's fun.

Speaker 3:
[72:55] A few years old. You know, it's funny with like Weapons winning, I forgot her name with her winning the supporting actress role for that. And then you go back and watch Heretic, which did not have the fanfare. It was like not, I feel like horror movies weren't quite having their season that they are now. Hugh Jackman. Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant is brilliant in that. Yeah, he's great. He carries the movie. The first 60% of it is really good. Then they try and make it more of a horror movie. And he's so good in it. He should have been acknowledged, I feel like, for his role.

Speaker 1:
[73:32] There was a low-key Oscar campaign for Hugh Grant for that movie. It never really took off, I think, because it's a pure genre movie. And like you said, we're just a little before that moment where that could happen. But yeah, Heretic's really fun. I've rewatched that a couple of times. It's good, it basically like, there's like two very good Hugh Grant monologues delivered in that movie that are just like, you know, just very, very special, like very, very good stuff. I did not upgrade to business class on my way back. I had like a good premium economy seat, like in the bulkhead row. So I had like a lot of leg room, but I did not have the business class experience, you know, on this trip, which is unfortunate, but you know, whatever, maybe next time. I didn't watch any movies on the way back. I was just crushing podcasts and got a little bit of sleep. But yesterday when I was home, I watched the entire season of Beef, the new season of Beef on Netflix.

Speaker 3:
[74:36] I watched one episode.

Speaker 1:
[74:38] I really enjoyed it. I will say that it's like, if you like the first season, I think like this is like very similar in tone and you'll kind of like know what to expect and you'll probably like it. The first like half of the season is probably a little stronger than the second half of Beef season two. But I really enjoyed it. I watched it in kind of like a jet lagged haze. So I'm not sure I like it was fully absorbed necessarily. But I had a good time spending eight hours on the couch yesterday and just kind of like churning through season two of Beef.

Speaker 3:
[75:12] The first time I was kind of wondering if this is intentional and plays into anything, felt like a White Lotus episode, not.

Speaker 1:
[75:17] Yeah, it definitely has like a bit of a White Lotus vibe, I think because of like the setting of the this season. Like it's kind of like centered around like a country club, you know, and, you know, employees at the country club. So yeah, it definitely feels a little bit White Lotus to me. But that's not a bad thing. I like White Lotus. It maintains a lot of the kind of like season one of Beef sort of like vibe, though, I think for sure. White Lotus is a little bit more of a kind of like, I don't know, classic whodunit. That's not really what Beef is.

Speaker 3:
[75:48] Hmm, interesting way to think of it.

Speaker 1:
[75:52] Anyway, that's what I, that was my, that's my cultural wreck this week is Beef Season Two. Enjoying that. Good cast also. Really, really strong cast for Beef Season Two this year. Alright guys, this is a supersized episode for a big week in Watches. And also we didn't record a podcast while we were at the event because no time.

Speaker 3:
[76:10] How would we have?

Speaker 1:
[76:10] I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. So, I appreciate you guys coming on, on a day that I'm sure we're all still a little jet lagged and not at full capacity coming back from the biggest week in Watches of the year. So, thanks to you both and thanks to all of our listeners for joining us. We always appreciate it. We'll be back, I think next week is probably the San Francisco Preview episode, if I'm not mistaken. So, yeah, we'll be back next week with the San Francisco Wind Up Watch for a preview. And we hope to see some of you there in San Francisco. We'll be there. It'll be a great show. And yeah, stay tuned for more of that. And go to the website for all of our Watches & Wonders content. There's more to come for sure. And we'll see you next time. Thanks. All right.