transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Imagine exploring the wonders of creation while growing in faith. Inside the Nat Theo Club, families discover God's creation through kid-friendly science, devotional content, nature journaling, hands-on activities, bonus videos, and more. All rooted in biblical truth. With flexible options for ages 4 to 14, your children can explore birds, insects, reptiles, plants, and other wonders of God's creation at their own pace, with new content added every week. Celebrate each discovery with certificates of completion in our brand new Bible and Nature Unit Studies. The Nat Theo Club is a meaningful, wonder-filled way to help your family reconnect the dots between creation and creator. Visit nattheo.com/club to learn more. Are you ready to explore God's wild and wonderful world? Welcome to the NatTheo Podcast. I'm your host, Eryn Lynum. I'm a certified Master Naturalist, Bible teacher, and author. And I am so excited to dive into God's written Word, the Bible, and His created world with you. I love a great story, do you? Especially when that story involves amazing animals that God made. Today, we are joined by a special guest, SD. Smith or Sam, who is the author of The Green Ember Series. A story full of adventure, loyalty, overcoming challenges, swords, wolves, raptors, redemption, and a whole lot of rabbits. My family loves The Green Ember Series, and it's an honor to talk with Sam Smith about the creatures that inspired his imagination in writing these stories. And guess what? His brand new book released this week. Grab a copy at the link in our show notes. Today, Sam will be sharing how God's creation serves as a canvas for our own creativity and story writing. On yesterday's episode, we learned all about God's designs in rabbits, and today we get a behind the scenes look at how God's creativity can inspire our own creativity and can lead to great stories. Before we welcome on Sam, let's thank our sponsor who helped make this special episode possible, Master Books. Speaking of great books, our family loves and trusts Books by Master Books, including their amazing collection of nature and science books for kids and families. Dig into dinosaur designs with their dinosaur book bundle. Marvel at God's Masterpieces with the Marvels of Creation book set, and become a junior scientist with their Let's Talk Science series for kids. When my kids reach for a book with the Master Books logo, I know there are no hidden agendas, just science and nature as it was meant to be taught from a biblical world view and always pointing back to our Creator God. I'm sharing links to some of our favorite Master Books titles in the show notes. Click over and explore God's wild and wonderful world through books and curriculum by Master Books. All right, let's welcome on today's guest. Though packed with old school virtue and moral imagination, SD. Smith doesn't merely create safe stories, but bold, daring, truthful tales of light that help shape children who become dangerous. Dangerous to the darkness that is. SD is the author of the Green Ember Series, which has sold over one million copies and is an adventure saga featuring heroic rabbits with swords. Let's welcome Sam for a rabbit adventure right here on Nat Theo. Welcome, Sam, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2:
[04:46] I am delighted to be here.

Speaker 1:
[04:49] My kids, they were so excited when I told them that you were coming on the podcast, and I was too because we have all enjoyed your books so much, especially The Green Ember Series, but really all of your books. And this week on Nat Theo, it's kind of Rabbit Week, because yesterday on our lesson, we learned all about God's designs in rabbits. And so today we're eager to hear how those designs in rabbits have inspired The Green Ember Series. So let's just dive right in. What inspired you to use rabbits as the key characters in The Green Ember Series?

Speaker 2:
[05:21] I'm so scared right now that I'm going to be outed as the biggest fraud in the world because, and I'm excited actually, because I'm hoping that I'll learn some stuff today from you because it's so funny. I didn't come at the rabbits through nature. I did in a way and I didn't in a way, but I think people expect me to be like, I'm training rabbits in my backyard, like I'm a wrangler and they've got little swords and stuff. But I'm actually probably allergic to rabbits, which is kind of funny. We live in the country in West Virginia, which is, we live in the rural part of West Virginia, which is to say somewhere in West Virginia because it's all rural. But I was with my daughter on the porch and I used to tell her stories all the time. I grew up out in the woods and we were in the woods all the time, so I love animals, I love rabbits, I love all these sort of like woodland creatures. But we were on our porch and we live in Grandview, West Virginia and there were just rabbits on the, hopping around in the yard. I just used to tell her stories all the time and so I'll tell her a little story about a rabbit. So I told her a story about an older sister rabbit who had a younger brother and it just started very, very simply because she was so little at the time. It was just very simple stories but she loved the story so much and we called it The Rabbits at Jupiter's Crossing and it became this sort of long serial with her and her brother but it started with the rabbits hopping around in the yard and they were just there. So I often tell people that I didn't choose the rabbits, the rabbits chose me.

Speaker 1:
[06:56] Wow, that's so fun to hear that it just came from observing creatures right where you live and I know what you're talking about because so many times we're watching a creature and it just sparks that creativity. And I love that it led to this full series that is impacting so many families, including my own. Did you know a lot about rabbits when you began writing? Did you learn about them as you went along?

Speaker 2:
[07:21] I kind of came out through sort of the literary way and then I kind of made some decisions thinking about what rabbits are vulnerable in this way and what are their natural predators. And I mostly I wanted it to be believable. There is a lot of morality. There's a lot of moral imagination in the stories. But my main thing was I want to tell a great story. I want to tell something that's adventurous, that's faithful, that's truthful, that's honest, that is a confrontation, that's an encounter with reality for my kids. But so I wanted it to be faithful, but I wasn't emphasizing like I'm going to teach them about honesty or bravery. I wasn't like this is good. I didn't want them at any time to be like, is this a lesson or is this a story? I wanted to be like, this is a story. And just get down deep in their bones. So I was really motivated that way. So I didn't have a lot of like, I wasn't thinking about instruction a whole lot along those lines. I want the kids to identify like this is me, and the rabbits are sort of like a way of telling a story. But I really want them to think this is, these are people with souls and they're like, they're having this, they have this moral component to them. So I really focused on the internal life a lot of the characters, their moral choices and these kinds of things. That's really where, that's where most of my, like, my heart is. So probably, I wonder, I'm really curious, like someone like you who knows so much, I'm just curious if it's like, if it ever bumps you and you're ever like, wait a second, that's not what rabbits do. That's all rabbits do.

Speaker 1:
[08:52] No, because really when I approach these books and I know they're fiction, I, there's, there's permission to take those liberties, because you are, you're teaching through this story. And I love that you allowed this storytelling process to guide you in that, because that's a gift. Like God has gifted you in storytelling and the fact that you let that lead. But at the same time, I really appreciated that you did preserve a lot of truth about rabbits in it. And one thing I loved was, there's these different scenes where the rabbits are running from the wolves or the raptors, and they're having to make a quick getaway. And it becomes very apparent that they know exactly where to go. Like they know their territory so well. And one thing we discussed on yesterday's lesson is that rabbits have a home territory and it's usually two and a half to seven acres large. And they really stay within that home territory and they know every inch of it. They have these crisscross paths that they've made, they mark it with scent. If there is a predator around, they know how to escape. And I saw that in your book and there were several times like that where I was like, oh, this is so fun because it's story. And yeah, we're taking a lot of liberties here. But also, you preserve these true facts about the rabbits. So I think you did it very well.

Speaker 2:
[10:06] I think we need to team up and do like a podcast where you teach me things about rabbits. Because this is already cool. I dig this. This is awesome.

Speaker 1:
[10:16] Well, listen to yesterday's lesson. And yeah, we dug deep into rabbit designs. Super fun.

Speaker 2:
[10:22] All right.

Speaker 1:
[10:23] There's a lot there.

Speaker 2:
[10:23] I'm on it.

Speaker 1:
[10:26] Okay. One thing I love about your books is the rabbits. They talk about the mended wood. And that is a theme all throughout the books. So what is the mended wood a picture of?

Speaker 2:
[10:37] I wasn't intentionally, it's not an allegory. And so I wasn't trying to be heavy handed and say, look, this isn't really what it is. It's something that is representing something else. That being said, I am who I am, which is, I'm a Christian and I follow Jesus Christ. And my whole life is oriented around anticipation for the kingdom of God, that the kingdom will come and his will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That's my whole hope. That's why I love storytelling is that you don't have to wrangle it or rip it into or deform it into sort of fit, whatever sort of lesson that you need to learn. I don't think you have to do that because if you just tell the truth and if you just tell good stories, it will reflect the maker. What comes out of me is what goes into me, I think. And one of those things is this longing for the kingdom. So I think all stories sort of, if there's a resolution, there's a happily ever after. It's about mending. It's about restoration. I think that's really the most faithful kind of storytelling to what reality is, is that there is a coming restoration and that actually is better partly because of struggle and because of the pain and because of what it took to redeem. So this mending, this happily, happier ever after, is is rooted in I think the most true things about the world, the most true things about what's happening, what's going to happen, what's coming. So I think Christians who read it and feel very, feel echoes to the kingdom of God are right on track. And that's how I would feel if I was reading it for the first time.

Speaker 1:
[12:23] Yeah, I could definitely see that as we were reading. And anytime they talked about the mended wood, it was like this, this hope, this deep seated hope, because you're in the midst of this story with rabbits and they're wielding swords and they're running from these wolves. And there's, there's, yeah, there's like some, some, I mean, hard and scary things that these rabbits go through. And yet they're looking forward to this hope. I love also how you're talking about the story process, because I have my first children's book coming out this fall. And it's a- Thank you. Thank you so much. It's an illustrated children's chapter book, and it's my first time writing fiction. So I've always been a nonfiction writer. And then this opportunity came up to write this, this full blown story. And at first I was so excited, but I'm also like, how do I write a story? And so like a lot of time in prayer and like, okay, God, you're going to have to lead this. And it was amazing as I would sit down to write. And sometimes like I had ideas, I kind of knew where I wanted to go and what creatures I wanted to incorporate. But as I would write the story, God was like, oh, like, like just dropping these ideas. Oh, this character does this and this character and developing the characters and the plot. And so I can definitely see how it's just a spirit led process and a gift. And I could see that in your books. And I'm just, it's so fun to hear about your process of actually developing the story.

Speaker 2:
[13:44] Isn't that funny that it kind of that's a cool experience that I like the way you described it. It's, I feel a lot of authors will describe their stories as sort of found objects, that they're something already there. And you can be like really weird about that. But I think about it in a sort of Christological or Christian sort of a way that like, that it's all his stuff and, and he's almost like set these things in the world. And you can kind of, you have this feeling of like uncovering a treasure, like finding it. So it's all from God. But we have this experience of being a writer. It does feel like there's a leading there and there's an exploration. And it's so much like childhood play, where when you play as a child, you kind of, that's how you do sort of discover things and things happen. And it's like it really happened. But it's sort of happening to you, but it's in your imagination, but you're acting on it in play. And this is real. And I think storytelling is so like that. And it feels like I guess that's a way of saying that it feels like a gift when it's at its best. And I love that because I think about gifts coming down from the father of lights. And then to me as a Christian, my orientation toward the audience is I want to, it's a gift. I want to give a gift. I want to love you. I want to serve you. Like I'm called by God to serve and to love you. And so this gift is coming to me and it's, and I want to give a gift to you. And it's a, I love that sort of virtuous cycle of discovery. And it's cool to hear you describe writing fiction for the first time.

Speaker 1:
[15:12] Yeah, yeah. It's been a fun experience. And yeah, that's a beautiful picture of it. Well, I am curious, you talked about watching the rabbits jumping around in your yard. Besides rabbits, how has God's creation inspired you in story writing?

Speaker 2:
[15:27] I grew up in, like I said, in a holler with a creek and hills and trees and animals. And that was just normal to me. That was that shaped my whole imagination. That was the canvas. And we weren't particularly wealthy, but we would make, my dad would like cut out little like swords or things for us out of wood. And we'd also sort of discover things in the woods. I remember having like a whole fleet of starships that were like bark and wood that are sort of put together. And we make paper airplanes and color them and make paper footballs and color them and make little characters. I mean, I made characters out of paper footballs as a kid. And I didn't know that then that I was sort of practicing for what my vocation would be later. But then it was just play and discovery. And that the that whole lesson, a lot of people are getting tuned into this now. But the fact that boredom is so good and it's it's such that that constraint or that challenge is so good for our imagination. I didn't know that I wasn't thankful for it at the time. I was mad or I was like, I wish I had a bunch of Legos or I wish I had all the GI Joes. But we played and created and made stuff and made up. And I didn't realize I was making stories of all the time and I was enacting that. And that and the canvas for that storytelling, that early world building was creation. And it's still the same or similar, I should say. And where I live now, like this morning I just took a walk around and saw Blue Jay and saw the Red Wing Blackbirds by the pond and saw a Pileated Woodpecker. And we have these animals, saw a Dark Gray Squirrel jump across the path in front of me. And so that's just, that is the landscape of my life. I don't often think about how influential that is, but I think it's the palette, it's the sort of forms my experience and my understanding of the world. And honestly, that's just West Virginia. There was a whole chapter of my life where I lived in Africa as a kid. And that was, we were missionary kids. So that experience of nature creation there was different. I saw cheetahs and lions and elephants and giraffe and wildebeest and zebras. And that was a different kind of a wild experience and wonderful as well. And so when I think about nature, I think about those experiences too of going to Kruger National Park. And so it's kind of mixed in this sort of Afro-Latchen experience of my life, that it's been all the way through and formed by creation.

Speaker 1:
[18:04] That's beautiful. And I love that you talked about the canvas of creation being the backdrop for the storytelling and the idea that it can be these big exotic experiences like over in Africa or these experiences right where you live. And I experienced that I have a second book coming out this fall that's not a fiction book, but it's focused all on creatures and plans that we encounter every day. Things like an earthworm and a grasshopper and a robin plucking a worm from the soil. And that was such a different experience for me also because these are things that I have grown up around and that I see all the time. But it was this practice of looking closer. And I think that is so much the seed of storytelling, is just looking around us and seeing the wonder of what God has made and allowing that to really spark ideas and where our story leads.

Speaker 2:
[18:57] Oh, I love that so much. That is, I can't wait for that book. I believe this with all my heart that we already live in a fantasy world. Like if you found a grasshopper, if you went through a portal and went into another world or we got on a spaceship and went to another planet and you've never experienced grasshoppers, but then you found one, you would be, oh my goodness, this magical creature, this miraculous thing, this weird, wild, amazing thing. Like I've got to document it and I've got to take one back to earth. But you see it every day and you're just like, well, that's a grasshopper. But it's amazing. It's completely amazing. And the world that God's made is nuts and awesome and so cool.

Speaker 1:
[19:37] It really brings us back to natural history and where science came from, that originally all these naturalists, they were discovering everything for the first time for humanity. They're like, wow, look at this. Let's look closer. Let's see how it's made. And so many of them, it was a pursuit. They want to see their creator. And they were coming at it from a biblical viewpoint. And so they were saying, let's look closer at this thing and see how God engineered it. And it does, it just causes us to marvel. So good. Well, storyteller.

Speaker 2:
[20:10] There's a storyteller there, right? A creator, a storyteller. It's like it screams out, this is a wild creature. Somebody that's from somebody's imagination. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:19] And I love to think too, because like so much of the ocean is unexplored. There's so much down there we don't even know about. And I like to picture like, of course there's some creativity going on in my head and some liberties taken, but I like to picture God when someone discovers a creature or a plant for the first time, and they realize no one has discovered this yet. And I'd like to picture God like, finally you found it. I think that's so fun.

Speaker 2:
[20:46] Treasure hunt. The treasure hunt goes on.

Speaker 1:
[20:49] Yeah. Yeah, completely. Well, in the Green Ember Books, my favorite character is Emma. She reminds me of my dear sister-in-law. And I love when Emma says, quote, You can choose what you believe, Shuffler, but you can't change what's true. How do your books use God's creation to share what is true? You've touched on this a little bit, but maybe if you can just give us one example.

Speaker 2:
[21:15] Well, I love Emma too, because I think she's a great character. She's just bold and she's clear and she sort of tells it like it is. I think that what I want to happen for readers is I want them to have an encounter with reality, with a capital R. I want them to experience things that are honest about the way God made the world and about the way that the world has fallen. So I don't want to pull punches too much. I mean, I want to be generous and gentle with them, but I don't want to be dishonest. I think a lot of stories, a lot of Christians want stories that are, they say, safe, and I understand what they mean by that. But there's a kind of safety that's dangerous and that is, you can lie a lot to a child. Nothing will ever happen. There is no bad in the world. You don't have to worry about anything. And there's a kind of like young age where a child doesn't need to hear every detail of every horrible thing that could possibly happen. I understand that. But I also think that there's a chance as children grow to experience these challenges vicariously. They're going to walk through the valley of the shadow of death. That's happening in their lives, whether it's, and for my experience, I've met a lot of kids through this vocation who walk through that a lot earlier than expected. And my heart is to love them in that and to give them armor. They are approaching a fight. And we could say, it doesn't matter. Like, just pretend like nothing's going to be wrong. Pat them on the head. Everything you think is right. And everything's fine. The bad guy just needed a hug and everything's okay. And I just think that doesn't arm them for what's coming. I believe there are real monsters, there's a real enemy, and it's worse than a lot of the monsters you read about. But that's the bad news. The good news is, you've got a hero who's better than any hero you've ever read about. And he's also the author of the story. And you are going to be okay, but that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. And I think so much of what you were just relating to earlier, talking about what the rabbits are going through, these challenges, is that's middle part of the story stuff. And that's where we are. I mean, that's where I am. I'm not in the resolution. I'm not in the mended wood right now. And so that means that tough stuff happens. There are martyrs. There are difficult things that people face. And everybody goes through difficult things. And everybody will have a death scene eventually. And I want to love, and I want to say that what your hope for the mending can influence what you do now. And that's what these characters do. That's what Emma's committed to, and Heather's committed to, and Heather is faced with a tough decision at one point, and she says, I don't, you know, facing death, and she says, I don't know how I'm going to die, but I know how I'm going to live. And it's in this light of like, there's something bigger than me out there. There's a bigger meaning to my life than just, I've got to get stuff or I've got to be cool, or I've got to protect myself, keep safe. There's a bigger value than safety. There's a bigger value than preserving my life. And we see that through the Lord himself, and through the apostles, and through Christians throughout the centuries. So I just, I love these kids, and I love my kids who were the original audience, and I want to tell them the truth. And I want to have them have an encounter with reality that informs their lives. Because when you read a book, you do it, you go there. It changes your heartbeat, you know, you feel it. It's a physical experience. We think of it as just like it's information conveyed into the brain. It's not. You feel, you have an experience that is embodied, because that's what we are. We're not just brains on a stick. We're embodied creatures. That's how God made us. But my heart is that when kids complete reading my stories, go through them, that they have had an encounter with reality with the capital R. They haven't been lied to about the way God made the world. They haven't been lied to about the fall and about how bad things happen. You read the Bible, the Bible is not safe. I don't know what the rating is, but it's not G. And it's tough. And so I think, and there's different times, different appropriateness, different for a two year old and a ten year old. And I totally appreciate that. But I want to give them the business. I want to give them the stuff. And I want them to, when they emerge on the other side, I don't want them to just think, I was safe through that. I want them to become more dangerous themselves to the darkness, become more enamored with what is good and true and beautiful and to love more what they ought to love, who they ought to love. I do hope and pray that their encounter with goodness, truth and beauty that happens in these stories, that they walk into the kingdom of light. Like that's what I want. I want people to say yes to Jesus. And these are not evangelistic tracks, they're not. But that's what I hope happens in their lives. I want that to happen all over. So I want to be honest, I want to be faithful, and I want the readers to walk in the light.

Speaker 1:
[26:29] Amen. That's so powerful. And I love how you say it, to help them encounter reality with a capital R. And we actually we talk about that a lot on Nat Theo, and I write about it in my books, how nature study does that. When we study God's creation, when you look at nature, you see that things are as they are. There's a reality there. And so like when my family is out hiking in the Rocky Mountains, if we come upon a momma moose with her calf on the trail, they are there and they have instincts, and we need to cooperate with those natural laws that were written by a lawmaker. And when we are up in the mountains and a storm comes in, we don't get to change that reality, we have to cooperate with it. And I love that that's what you're doing in your books too, is just showing kids there are absolute truths. Even in the form of a story with fictional elements, we can show there's truth and there's reality.

Speaker 2:
[27:22] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[27:23] Well, I have just a couple of fun questions before we end our conversation. Besides rabbits, because we've talked a lot about rabbits, what is your favorite animal and why?

Speaker 2:
[27:34] I think this is still true. I keep coming back to my childhood one was always a cheetah. I loved cheetahs. I think when I was a little boy, I just wanted to be fast and I was amazed. I was like, well, cheetah is the fastest animal in the world? Well, that's my animal then and I just love them.

Speaker 1:
[27:52] All right, one more. Can you share a favorite memory of yours in nature? It can be from adulthood, childhood, just a favorite memory.

Speaker 2:
[28:01] I think probably the most powerful or formative was, I was a child and I was playing in the woods and my dad loved, loved, loved that holler, loved where we lived and loved West Virginia and loved the woods. And he, so I'm playing out in, and it had rained and there was a little bit of mist and we were, we kind of broke through, we were, we were in the woods and we kind of broke through this little canopy and there was, there was moss on the ground and kind of mist in the air and a little bit of space and it was a canopy and there was a little bit of light shining through some kind of a break and a hint of a rainbow and it felt like we were walking into heaven. And it was one of those things where noisy, loud boys playing war and going into this space and feeling like you're on holy ground and that you needed to be quiet and that this was an encounter that you couldn't explain, but the feeling was joy, reverence, holiness, and beauty. We never would have had language at the time to describe it, but the feeling was overwhelming. And in some ways, I almost feel like I've been hoping to walk into a place like that for the rest of my life.

Speaker 1:
[29:42] That's powerful. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. I love those little glimpses we get. And of course, I think they're like this little hint toward the new creation. And God just knows we need a little bit of hope in our heart. He's like, let me just give you this. And I've had those experiences myself too. And I know so many of our listeners have as well. And I think we should always be on the lookout for those experiences when God's like, hey, I just want to whisper a little hope into your spirit today. So step outside. Well, Sam, this has been such a fun conversation. I am deeply grateful for how God has gifted you in storytelling so that we can enjoy these incredible adventures with Heather and Pickett. Can you please share with listeners where they can find your books and about your brand new book that is releasing this week?

Speaker 2:
[30:29] Thank you, Erin. That means so much to me. I'm really grateful. I do. We say we're like allies in imagination. That's kind of our heart. You can, stsmith.com is probably the place to go. I'm so excited about the new story. I think it's a fun trilogy. I think there are a lot of good gifts in the stories for kids. And I hope that parents realize and feel, and kids just feel that like they've got an imperfect, one who messes up for sure and doesn't have all his ducks in a row. But someone who has a genuine heart for your kids and for your families and wants to be your ally.

Speaker 1:
[31:10] Well, personally, I can attest to that. I sense that when we're reading your books. Absolutely. Well, Sam, thank you. I will be sure to include those links in the show notes so listeners can pick up copies of your books. Thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 2:
[31:24] Thank you, Eryn. It was a pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 1:
[31:39] Wow, that was so fun. If you enjoy a great adventure story, and I'm guessing you do, pick up a copy of The Green Ember Series and Sam's brand new book at the links in our show notes. Listeners, following God is the greatest adventure, and a fun way to do that is to keep exploring his wild and wonderful world, learning about the amazing animals that he has made, and sharing the adventure with as many people as we can. If you enjoyed this special guest episode, please take a moment to send it to a friend. Thank you so much for listening, and please subscribe, rate, and review Nat Theo wherever you listen. Until next time, keep exploring God's wild and wonderful world.