transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Thrivent believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes and community you love. That's why Thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs, offering advice, investments and insurance to help you plan your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or to direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters to you. With more than 120 years of experience and as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country. To learn more, visit thrivent.com. Thrivent, where money means more. Hello and welcome to The Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing after 2 a.m. or about 2 a.m. Eastern on Wednesday morning. Joining us from Boston, Massachusetts, where he was at the 76ers' Game 2 victory over the Celtics evening that series and spicing things up, Tim Bontemps.

Speaker 2:
[01:05] Got a lot of 1-1s, fellas. Gonna be a fun few days in the Association.

Speaker 1:
[01:10] Not in Cleveland. Joining us from Oklahoma City, where I wouldn't bet on that going 1-1, but you never know. Where there will be Game 2 on Wednesday night between the Suns and Thunder is Van McMahon.

Speaker 3:
[01:24] The partners and hello, everybody. Bontemps, we got that.

Speaker 2:
[01:29] Hello, everybody. By the way, Windhorst, you'll be happy to know that Slater, our guy, Anthony Slater, texted me earlier and said, weird night in the league. And what did I say back? I said, as Windhorst says, there are no weird nights. It's just nights in the league.

Speaker 1:
[01:45] There's no weird NBA games. There's just games. I was moving over here from the studio here in the LA studios, looking outside and the fans were streaming out of crypto.com arena. Very, very happy. Very, very happy. But we're going to start down 35 from McMahon in San Antonio, where things got very interesting in the Spurs-Blazers series on Tuesday night in game two. And in fascinating and upsetting ways, Victor Wembanyama got knocked out. Fell extremely hard, got knocked out. There's just no way to know how he's going to react to that concussion. Mitch Johnson, the coach, said after the game that he's only being evaluated for concussion, that he's not being evaluated for any other injuries. I guess I'll believe him, but he has a head injury and I cannot believe he does not have some sort of jaw or neck injury too. The positive for the Spurs is that, you know, typically in the first three games of a first round series, you get two days off somewhere in there. Their two days off come between games two and three. So it's 72 hours between games. You need at least 48 to clear a concussion protocol in the NBA. But there's no way to know whether he's going to be able to clear. There's just no way to know. So MacMahon, the Blazers, which we're going to talk about with a very big fourth quarter move here, but this throws the entire Western Conference Playoffs into some disarray here, not knowing what's going on with Victor Wembanyama.

Speaker 3:
[03:22] Yeah, thank goodness he did not fracture his jaw because, I mean, he basically landed chin first on the hardwood, and that is a long fall.

Speaker 2:
[03:31] So scary.

Speaker 1:
[03:32] He was also not bleeding from the mouth that we could see, so hopefully he didn't bite his tongue either.

Speaker 2:
[03:37] Yeah, that's a scary play.

Speaker 3:
[03:39] But I mean, he was knocked out cold. Hopefully he has a quick recovery, but even with Wemby out, this was a game the Spurs had, and the Blazers took it from them. The Spurs also just let it get away. Darren Fox has to be better. You know, Tumana Kamara swallowed him up in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1:
[04:05] Well, that's what happened. They were able to put Kamara on to Fox because they didn't have to put Kamara on Wembyama.

Speaker 3:
[04:12] Yeah, and that old domino. You know, Stephon Castle has to be better, but Fox is the bet. Fox is supposed to be their closer. Fox went one of six from the floor in the fourth quarter. You know, frankly, I don't know. Harper didn't play a lot in the fourth quarter. He was the one who was having the most success in terms of handling.

Speaker 1:
[04:36] Well, frankly, that's another topic. Harrison Barnes hurt his wrist. I didn't see a postgame update. It did not look great. And Dylan Harper re-injured a thumb. He hurt his thumb in the last game of the regular season, which is going to be very, very fateful the way that game went down, not only potentially for the second round, but for this round in the Lakers getting the Rockets. That's for later. But Harper didn't finish the game and his beat, cause he re-aggravated that thumb. I don't know how much it was the thumb, but they had three injuries in the space of about 45 real time minutes, which is not ideal.

Speaker 3:
[05:13] They're still at 14 with eight and a half minutes left and just could not score. And again, credit the Blazers. They've got some really good individual defenders. You know, Donovan Klingon was pulled down the stretch, closed with Robert Williams because the Spurs were playing small a lot. But even when they brought Cornett back in, they stuck with Robert Williams. But Kamara and Drew Holliday were great on the defense. Hey man, Scoot Henderson had himself a game. I mean, he was just hitting shot after shot after shot, big time shots.

Speaker 1:
[05:48] Bontemps, here's the thing about this Blazers performance. Denny Avia, I don't know if he was 100% either because he had a back issue earlier in the season. He did not look like he was moving great to me. And he scored zero points in the fourth quarter. The Blazers made this comeback with Denny Avia as a decoy. It was Scoot Henderson. It was Drew Holliday. And Tumani Kamara, he scores 10 points in the game. Eight of them are in the fourth quarter. They got this win in a comeback fashion in San Antonio with Avia not a factor in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 2:
[06:28] No, I mean, it was a huge comeback. As you said, McMahon summed it up perfectly. It was a huge collapse. And for all the things to talk about with Portland, at the end of the day, the Aaron Fox, as you said, McMahon, they traded for this guy. They gave him this max extension in the summer. He is the guy who, in this situation with Victor Wembanyama out, has to be the one to step up. He did not. And let's just be real about this, fellas. Like, this is about the worst team the Spurs could have drawn for this situation. Because the Blazers are an excellent defensive team with all sorts of athletic, good defensive guards and wings, right? You take Victor Wembanyama out of the picture, at least for now, let's take him out of the picture for the Spurs, and the Blazers have all sorts of people to guard. Stephon Castle, De'Aaron Fox, whether Dylan Harper is healthy or not, Kelden Johnson, Devin Vissel, and obviously we'll see if Denny is right on Friday, but the Spurs don't have an amazing match up for him size wise. Robert Williams, back to playing like Celtics Robert Williams again.

Speaker 1:
[07:41] I know. I hadn't seen him play like this in years.

Speaker 2:
[07:45] I mean, he looked incredible down the stretch in this game. And what have we talked about for weeks? How real is the Spurs shooting? Seven for 24 from three. Another rough shooting game from Stephon Castle again.

Speaker 1:
[08:01] He had two air balls in the fourth quarter, Castle.

Speaker 3:
[08:03] Dude, the air ball in like, it was like a 10 or 12 footer that he.

Speaker 1:
[08:07] Yeah, whatever it was, he shot at 10 feet.

Speaker 3:
[08:10] It was a 12 foot shot.

Speaker 2:
[08:11] Well, and this is what I kept talking about down the stretch. I think Stephon Castle is an awesome player. He's going to have an awesome career. But like, we've seen this so many times. You get in the playoffs for the first time, things are different. I mean, we're going to talk about the Knicks later. Jalen Johnson had an awful first couple of games, playing in a real role for the first time in the playoffs. Dyson Daniels got benched down the stretch of game two for Jonathan Kaminga.

Speaker 1:
[08:36] Good decision.

Speaker 2:
[08:37] These are the things that happen even to good players in the crucible of playoff games. And certainly, I hope Victor is back on Friday. Like you said, it's a minimum of 48 hours. Then you have to clear a bunch of benchmarks to be able to play. I think just from that standpoint, game three feels like a stretch when it's 72 hours away. I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's probably an uphill battle if you're just being realistic. So if you're going to say, all right, Victor is not going to play in game three, well, all of a sudden, this series where we come out of Sunday and we're talking about how great Victor looked and how great the Spurs looked overall and they're on their way. All of a sudden, things totally on its head. And like I said, if Victor is not available, you look at these teams on the bottom half of the bracket, the Blazers are a really tough matchup with the amount of wing defenders they have. It's suddenly a very fascinating series.

Speaker 3:
[09:36] I'm just going to say real quick, the Spurs are capable of winning without Wemby.

Speaker 1:
[09:40] That's what I would say. I think it was a shock to the system that they didn't handle great. Although they built a lead.

Speaker 3:
[09:49] They fell apart in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 2:
[09:51] Yes. They have a good record this year without Victor too.

Speaker 1:
[09:55] I will say one thing I know. So Victor played nine minutes in the first quarter and he played a handful of minutes in the second quarter. In the first quarter alone, the Blazers were three of 12 in the paint. That's the Victor effect. That's why he's the unanimous defensive player of the year. The rest of the game, they're 17 of 22. So that's a big factor there. Second thing is they only give up 24 threes. Now, they made seven of them, as you said, Bontemps. 24 is way below the number they normally shoot. Because even though Victor isn't always a high-volume shooter, he creates gravity and generates that.

Speaker 3:
[10:34] And he is one of the best three-point shooters as well.

Speaker 1:
[10:38] Correct. So they were stitching this together. So they'll have, I assume, a better game plan for Friday.

Speaker 2:
[10:44] But it's just tough. Like now, Donovan Klingon is all of a sudden a much bigger factor in the series because-

Speaker 3:
[10:50] Although, he didn't play well tonight.

Speaker 2:
[10:52] No, he didn't. But I'm saying, like going forward, like Donovan Klingon can bang on Luke Cornett. Like that's a place where he can guard and be much more effective. He's the best offensive rebounder in the league this year. That obviously takes a huge center out of the mix for the Spurs. They have to totally change up their game plan over the next couple of days. Again, none of this is to say the Spurs are down and out and the series is over. Even if Victor can't play for a week. I certainly think the Spurs can come back and win game three and get back on track and win the series. But for a team that's now going to be reliant on perimeter players, the Spurs have a lot. I mean, you got Drew Holliday, Tommadi Kamara, Scoot Henderson was also guarding really hard in this game. I mean, he made some huge plays.

Speaker 1:
[11:34] Scoot Henderson has had the two best games of his career, such as it is.

Speaker 2:
[11:39] And it's crazy considering he basically had it. This was almost a lost season for him. He had this crazy hamstring injury.

Speaker 1:
[11:44] 50 games with a torn hamstring. Yeah, he missed 50 games.

Speaker 2:
[11:47] It's just to come out and do this today. I mean, you know, and again, let's see where Denny's at, too.

Speaker 1:
[11:53] His interviews both after this game and in the, you know, he had an interview, he had a piece with Mark Spears right at the start of the play. And like his attitude and everything has been very, very good throughout this whole thing. And so, I mean, his confidence showed in this, you know, he played very well in game one as well. But to put up 31 on the road in his second ever playoff game.

Speaker 2:
[12:14] Again, the Spurs also have some really excellent perimeter defenders too. It's not like they're, you know, Yeah, well, they're gonna have to re-examine their game plan on Scoot, quite frankly.

Speaker 1:
[12:22] I'm sure they didn't bank on him doing this.

Speaker 3:
[12:25] And listen, he came through tonight, he's had a great series so far. I'm not sure he's going to keep shooting that well. I mean, of course, you know, I don't know that Scoot Henderson is gonna, I think, what was he, five of nine from three?

Speaker 1:
[12:40] Yes, agree.

Speaker 3:
[12:41] I mean, I don't know that's getting repeated.

Speaker 2:
[12:44] No, he's not going to do that. But you also wouldn't assume Denny Avia is going to go for no points in the fourth quarter and have 14 points, especially if Victor's not playing. Like, this is a guy who's as good getting downhill as anybody in the league. If he's right on Friday, getting to the rim. I mean, you bled out the stats, Brian. If Victor's not out there, all of a sudden, the math changes a lot. Also, just say real quick, we always talk every year, we get to the end of the playoffs, whoever wins, and what do we talk about, right? How lucky you have to be to get all the way through. Again, this is not trying to be some post-mortem on the spurs that they have no chance. Victor, hopefully, will be back. They'll go on a huge run, everything will be great. But you need luck to get through the next two months. There's a lot of games, a lot of stuff can happen, shot luck, injury luck, all kinds of stuff. And, you know, in a 45-minute span, to have three rotation players all go down with injuries, obviously, including Victor, is just a reminder that a lot of this stuff is very fragile.

Speaker 3:
[13:44] I just want to point out with Avdya, he was in foul trouble. I don't think he was able to get in a rhythm in this game. And he did make the biggest pass of the night. That was an incredible play.

Speaker 2:
[13:52] God, that play was unbelievable.

Speaker 1:
[13:54] Well, first off, the spurs, they're standing on Avdya's right foot whenever he's got the ball in the perimeter, just saying, you have to go to the left.

Speaker 3:
[14:03] And he doesn't go left.

Speaker 1:
[14:06] So that was actually really good defense on that play. Luke Cornett brought help defense and they stymied Avdya. That was like a really good defense. And he threw, he somehow pirouetted basically.

Speaker 2:
[14:17] Well, they didn't stymie him. He stopped on a dime on one leg and drew Luke Cornett over. And Luke Cornett was like, oh, this guy's going to have to shoot it. And he somehow didn't travel and then lobbed it up to Robert Williams for a dunk.

Speaker 3:
[14:31] And honestly, when he let it go, I thought it was a floater.

Speaker 2:
[14:34] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] I did too.

Speaker 2:
[14:36] It was just an unbelievable play all the way around.

Speaker 1:
[14:40] All right. By the way, Jackson put a quote in here from Scoot Henderson after the game. When did you realize you had it tonight? And he said, when I woke up. Which actually sounds like a Victor quote, quite frankly.

Speaker 2:
[14:52] So hey, listen, Scoot has had a bit of a quixotic start to his career. But I mean, he was a mega quixotic.

Speaker 3:
[14:59] Wow, vocab.

Speaker 2:
[15:00] He was a mega prospect. And, you know, like he this was a pretty cool moment for him to show up on a huge stage. And obviously, you go all the way back to when Victor was playing those games in Vegas. Right. Remember three, four years ago when he came over, who was he playing at? Scoot Anderson and the G League Ignite. Right. That was the whole thing. Like Victor against Scoot is the top two picks in the draft.

Speaker 1:
[15:23] There was a time where they was like, well, which one of them is going first? And when the dust settled, not only was it Victor, but Scoot ended up third.

Speaker 4:
[15:29] More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 1:
[16:15] This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. Checking out online? Apple Pay makes it simple. Apple Pay is accepted on millions of websites and apps and counting. Just look for the Apple Pay button almost anywhere you do your online shopping. When you tap the Apple Pay button to check out, you don't have to worry about filling out any forms with your shipping address or payment method. Instead, use your pre-saved information and check out in seconds. Need to make a change? You can easily review and change your credit card information and shipping details right in the payment sheet. Once you're ready, just double click the side button, authenticate your purchase with Face ID, and you're done. Whether you're shopping online for everyday needs or treating yourself, skip the hassle. Shop with Apple Pay. Terms apply. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Granger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. All right, how about this for some vocab, MacMahon? This calls for a bifurcated conversation. Oh, I don't know what that means.

Speaker 3:
[17:47] I look forward to finding out.

Speaker 2:
[17:47] I was gonna say, I knew you didn't.

Speaker 1:
[17:49] Lakers, Lakers over here, Rockets over here. Who do we want to start with?

Speaker 2:
[17:54] Well, listen, I'll tell you this.

Speaker 3:
[17:57] The Rockets offense is definitely furcated right now.

Speaker 1:
[18:01] I will start with the Lakers, okay? I just want to say, watching this game, it was like a throwback to 2006, because that's what this game looked like. It was an absolute rock fight. LeBron was, you know, parading to the line, trying to get to the basket, couldn't make a real jumper. I guess he made a couple, but, you know, he's 8 of 20, and basically just making plays left and right at low efficiency. And I guess they did creep over 100, but for a long time it looked like the game might be, you know, in the 90s to the 80s. The difference is in 2006 LeBron was 21, now he's 41. And they just stitched it together. And look, Marcus Smart, you know, you're going to have role players hit shots. Marcus Smart hit shots. Marcus Smart and Luke Kennard combined for 48 points in this game. Now, if Reeves and Doncich were playing, I suppose it's possible. Their averages are higher than that. Maybe they would have come up with more than 48. But against the Rockets, you don't need that many points. And that is an incredible way that they're delivering. And I'll say this. Number one, beyond LeBron just putting up the numbers, I'm not surprised. You tip your cap to them, but you're not surprised. I will say that at the trade deadline, the Lakers traded for Luke Kennard. There was a bit of a market for him. The Lakers got the deal done. Whatever you want to say, they got the deal done. It was a reasonable deal. Gabe Vincent. Did they give a second Bontemps? I can't remember.

Speaker 2:
[19:36] Yeah. Gabe Vincent in a second.

Speaker 1:
[19:38] All right. Then JJ Reddick, it's not like Luke Kennard is standing in the corner and just hitting threes. He's hit some threes, but JJ Reddick is designing a game plan where Kennard is getting the ball on the move. They're running actions for him and showing that he isn't just a spot up shooter. I wonder if JJ sees a little bit of a mirror in Luke Kennard, Duke player, viewed as a spot up shooter. JJ may have thought in his career, I'm just guessing, no one said this to me, but JJ might have thought, I could do more than just come off floppy action and run around and catch and shoot a three. I could put the ball on the floor and they could run some stuff for me. Whatever it is, they put a game plan in that has given Luke Kennard the opportunity to become basically a shot creator, and he is delivering. He is nine years into his career, and he is delivering in ways that I had not seen before. Maybe he's done this in Memphis or something.

Speaker 2:
[20:38] He has definitely handled the ball some in the past. It's not like he was never dribbling, not like this.

Speaker 1:
[20:44] He is basically the number one three-point shooter in the league, percentage-wise, this year. But earlier in his career at Duke, and when he was in high school, he was a total give me the ball and let me create my own shot. So anyway, that is definitely to be admired. Also, Jackson Hayes, like Alperen Shungun's numbers were better in this game than game one, but Jackson Hayes guards him down the stretch of this game. Shungun made a couple of baskets, but Jackson Hayes was effectively guarding Alperen Shungun. Most of it straight up. Jackson Hayes was plus 12 in this game. Okay. So I'll let you talk about the Rockets, McMahon, but this is a double story. The Lakers are really manufacturing something here. And I noticed in DraftKings, they've swung to the favorites and I don't blame them.

Speaker 3:
[21:37] Oh, yeah, they're up 2-0 and LeBron has had 24 2-0 leads in series in his career and won every single series.

Speaker 1:
[21:47] All right, McMahon, the Rockets, go ahead.

Speaker 3:
[21:49] Man, they're hard to watch. They're hard to watch and you're watching game one and they say, okay, man, boy, do they need KD because this is ugly. And then KD comes back and the guy had 20 points at halftime on six to seven shooting. Second half, he had three points on one of five shooting. He commits nine turnovers in the game. The guy had more turnovers than Buckets, had nine turnovers, four in the fourth quarter. And I go back to the baseball series I covered in Houston, that first game, and they're varying the double teams, they're varying like when they send the second defender and where it's coming from and all that. It's not like it's the same. You know, as LeBron says, it's not like it's the same pitch. They're mixing up their pitches, but the Rockets and KD in particular are not handling it well at all. And Reed Shepard had 11 scoreless minutes in this game, fellas. Like for a team star for offense, they got a donut from the guy who's probably...

Speaker 1:
[22:57] On NBA Today, today we were asked, and I hate this kind of bleep, but you know, I was following the procedures of the... The producers said, pick... Pick... You know, I don't make predictions. This is one of the reasons why. Pick a hot take for this game. And I said that Reed Shepard would have a huge bounce back after six of 20. Boy, was that wrong.

Speaker 3:
[23:17] Yikes. Yeah. Nice little 0-4. And one of those was a three in transition with KD open, and KD got the rebound and actually got a bucket off it. KD was letting Reed Shepard know on the way back down the floor, hey, when I'm open running the floor, don't pull up in 28. Give me the damn ball. But what an ugly, abysmal performance. And again, man, 23 points on seven of 12. Yeah, nine. 23 points on seven of 12 shooting, but that was a terrible KD performance.

Speaker 1:
[23:57] They're just running a double team at it, but do they not know they're going to bring a double team to Kevin Durant? Do they not know that?

Speaker 2:
[24:02] Right. I mean, this is where it's hard for me to really parse out the, like, you know, your point about the bifurcated nature of this. Like, look, the Lakers have been red hot shooting the first couple of games, but like, the Rockets, the Rockets have, there's no theory to the Rockets offense. Like, they're not, it's just, they're just smashing their heads into the wall and fleeing the ball around. And like, yeah, they're running double teams at Kevin Durant. It's like, the Rockets don't have a plan for that. Like, I mean, it's what we've seen in clutch games all season. Like, they just completely short circuit all the time. Like, you know, like, and also the other, like a couple other things. One, Amen Thompson, never guarding LeBron James. I don't really understand what the plan of that is. Perhaps it's some sort of, well, we want to have when he switches on to LeBron. Well, he's not switching on LeBron if he's standing in the corner guarding Marcus Smart and LeBron's going against Tari East or somebody else and getting where he wants. Also, like, Kinnard is just straight line driving, going by guys on the perimeter for the Rockets and getting to the rim in the fourth quarter. Like, this team that's supposed to be an excellent defensive team, just not really stopping the ball anywhere. And then you go down the other end and Durant's just throwing crazy passes. And, like, again, they have 17 more shots than the Lakers today in this game. And, you know, they're winning the possession game, does not matter. And again, you could say, if you're, you know, you know, Bronnie had said in the post-game interview, oh, you know, guys play better at home than on the road. You can, for the Rockets, you could say, yeah, we're going to go back to Houston and, you know, Kinnard and Marcus Smart aren't going to, you know, go 16 for 26 from the field like they did today. And we're going to get a couple of wins to get right back in the series, which like might be true, but it doesn't change the fact that you watch this game. And it's like these guys just can't run basic NBA offense at times. Like, the Lakers are not the, I don't know, the prime, to go back to your thing about 2005, this isn't the 2005 Pistons defense. Like, the Lakers are an OK defensive team and they're making the Rockets just look completely inept.

Speaker 1:
[26:16] But they're very limited.

Speaker 3:
[26:17] Yeah, like, they have, and honestly, part of the reason they're very limited defensively is because their two best scorers aren't great defenders. Those guys aren't playing right now, but still.

Speaker 1:
[26:26] Three best scorers, buddy.

Speaker 2:
[26:27] Luke Kennard is, Luke Kennard has replaced one of them. Luke Kennard is no defensive ace. Like, Deandre and Luke, Deandre and Jackson Hayes are not Rudy Gobert. Like, come on.

Speaker 1:
[26:37] This is true.

Speaker 2:
[26:38] Like, this, you know, again, no disrespect. They're playing really hard, but come on.

Speaker 3:
[26:43] No, they are completely befuddling the Rockets with smoke and mirrors. They are out scheming them, is what we're watching right now.

Speaker 1:
[26:51] And out executing. Out scheming and out executing.

Speaker 2:
[26:54] Out everything. I mean, there's just, what is the plan for the Rockets? What is the plan for the offense besides throw it at the backboard and hope to get the rebound?

Speaker 1:
[27:01] I mean, again, I want to credit the Lakers defense, but the offense is just, I don't know, it's element, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[27:10] Well, also, how is Kevin Durant only getting 12 shots?

Speaker 3:
[27:13] Because they kept throwing a second defender at him and he kept throwing the ball away.

Speaker 2:
[27:17] My point is, you have to find a way to get Kevin, there has to be a plan to get Kevin Durant more than 12 shots.

Speaker 1:
[27:24] There has not been a plan for a long time. That's the issue.

Speaker 2:
[27:28] It's crazy. It's crazy how just completely inept they look on offense.

Speaker 1:
[27:34] I would just say that this season had a lot of promise for the Rockets. Obviously, they've had stuff happen to them that they cannot control, losing these players to injury. But they have not maximized the hand that they've had, at least to this point.

Speaker 2:
[27:52] No. Look, when Fred Van Vliet got hurt, we came on the pod and talked about how this set up a men's top and to have an all-star, most improved player kind of season and seize the opportunity and run with it. He just didn't. He hasn't been that great. He's been fine.

Speaker 1:
[28:09] His brother is going to end up more decorated this year than him, I think.

Speaker 2:
[28:12] Well, yeah. I mean, we didn't even talk about that the other day. I don't know if we're going to talk about Minnesota later. No offense to Sar Thompson who had second team all defense. He absolutely should not have been the finalist for defense.

Speaker 1:
[28:22] I think Mr. Gobert might have felt a certain way about that.

Speaker 2:
[28:24] We'll get to that.

Speaker 1:
[28:25] We'll talk about that. All right. 2-0 Lakers and Shams said today that Luca was not going to play in this series, but I haven't heard that about Austin Reeves. Let me just point that out. Okay, Bontemps, up at TD Garden on Tuesday night. There was a great duo who was playing in this game, a duo that we have seen before, but the duo was Tyrese Maxey and Vijay Edgecombe. They got it done.

Speaker 2:
[28:57] They sure did. I mean, we talked about it on Sunday after game one that I was at here in Boston and I got back home. And what did we say the formula was? Sixers have to have the best player on the court and they got to shoot threes, right? And in the first game, there were four for 23 from three and Tyrese was awful, Tyrese Maxey. And in this game, Vijay Edgecombe at 30 and 10, first rookie to do that since Tim Duncan.

Speaker 3:
[29:25] That's wild.

Speaker 2:
[29:26] Youngest player to ever do that in a playoff game, surpassing Magic Johnson, pretty good company.

Speaker 1:
[29:31] Despite a hellacious fall that forced him from the game.

Speaker 2:
[29:36] Yeah, which we'll get to. Tyrese Maxey has 29, hits the 29 and 9, hits two massive pull up threes after the Celtics cut it to two, made way through the fourth quarter, puts them on a 17 to three run. They put the game away and win. And this is the Celtics that we have seen for most of the past decade. This is what the Celtics do. They are much like the Nuggets, who I think we're going to talk about later. What is the thing you've said about the Nuggets over and over again, Brian? They love to play long series. You know who else loves to play long series? The Boston Celtics. They are the kings.

Speaker 1:
[30:10] Do I feel that in my bones?

Speaker 3:
[30:12] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[30:13] I mean, look, the Celtics, the beginning of this game was a definitional, this was a definitional Celtics game. They get out to a 26 to 13 lead. Nick Nurse says after the game, they were sensational at the beginning. They were. They were back. They did what they've done a lot. Jump out to a double digit lead. They're flying around, hitting shots, making plays, looking like it could be another 20 point win. They then let the sixers back in the game, get down by 10, make a big push, seven minutes to go or 625 to go. They get down to two, crowds going crazy and they give up two back to back open, three to Tyrus Maxey. Immediately take some bad shots, game gets away. They lose by 15 and they go 13 for 50 from three. I suspect the shot quality numbers will probably say the Celtics should have won by 10 or 15 points, just like they have a lot of times in the past. And they're now 1-1 in a series against a team that has some ability to give them problems. And by the way, Joel Embiid started a strength and contingency program on Monday and we'll see if he could be a factor at some point in this series. And the other thing I will say, interesting stat from Stats Williams, which goes back to these pull up threes of VJ and Tyrese in this game. In this game, the Celtics ran drop coverage 69.7% of the time.

Speaker 1:
[31:37] Drop coverage is basically when the screen comes up, the big man, the big man is almost always involved.

Speaker 2:
[31:44] The center stays back towards the basket. He drops towards the basket.

Speaker 1:
[31:47] He doesn't come up and block the pathway. They don't switch. They just sort of wait back and bet that you're going to miss.

Speaker 2:
[31:54] That's right. That percentage, 69.7%, is the third highest percentage any team has run drop coverage in any playoff game in the player tracking data era, which goes back to the 2013-14 season.

Speaker 1:
[32:08] Yeah. In the modern era, teams typically switch because just about everybody on the court can shoot threes. And when you go into drop coverage, it's ripe for a three pointer.

Speaker 2:
[32:21] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[32:22] It's sort of a curve ball or if you've got like a guy like Embiid who you can't switch out on, which is why you often see, especially in the playoff's mismatch hunting, they just create the switch that they want. But that's a bigger conversation, but that's a good number from staff.

Speaker 2:
[32:36] Essentially, the Celtics were daring the Sixers to take and make threes. And the Sixers went 19 for 39 from three.

Speaker 3:
[32:45] That'll do it.

Speaker 2:
[32:46] And won the game.

Speaker 3:
[32:48] And when you said the Sixers had to have the best player on the court, you meant Tyrese Maxey. You didn't mean the 19-year-old, I'm sorry, the 20-year-old kid, Vijay Edgecombe, who was, he was the best player on the floor tonight.

Speaker 2:
[33:01] Unbelievable.

Speaker 3:
[33:02] You know, like the rookie of the year conversation has been Cooper Flag, Conniple, and I'm not saying Vijay Edgecombe is like just completely off the radar, but he was a deserving third, but a distant third. He'll finish third in that balloting, but like a distant third. Conniple went to pick after him. I don't believe the 76ers have any regrets about the guy that they have. And this is, I can tell you they don't. He's a guy who, like Bahamas didn't make the Olympics, but they were right on the cusp of qualifying for the Olympics when he was an 18-year-old kid playing with pros on that team. And in some of those games, which are high stakes games, down the stretch of those games, he had the ball in his hands. He was the primary shot creator.

Speaker 2:
[33:50] I'll tell you right now, Chris DiMarco, who's now coaching the Liberty, who was a long-time Golden State Warriors assistant, Clay Thompson's coach, Draymond Green, worked with Clay Thompson, based his whole career with the Warriors. Draymond, worked closely with Draymond Green, obviously with Steph. He swore by Vijay Achkam leading up to this draft.

Speaker 1:
[34:07] He was the Bahamas National Team coach.

Speaker 2:
[34:08] He was the Bahamas National Team coach. He was like, I would take this guy first. He's gonna be unbelievable when he gets to the pros. I don't know about first, but let's relax, DiMarco. I'm not saying he should have been first. I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

Speaker 3:
[34:21] He's a stud.

Speaker 1:
[34:23] Good luck to DiMarco, by the way, because I saw an interview he gave today. Seeing him with giving interviews at the New York Liberty is a long-time friend of the pod. Okay. The Celtics won 56 games this year, and that was awesome, and we take our hats off to it, and Jalen Brown got a lot of attention for it. But Derek White had a phenomenal defensive season. He was on my all defensive team.

Speaker 2:
[34:49] Mine too.

Speaker 1:
[34:50] He was a big part in many, many wins. However, he had a terrible shooting season. He had the worst shooting season of his career. I do not know why that happened. Maybe there's something about his shot or something. I don't know. But he is off to a terrible start in this series. And on Tuesday, he was three of 12 and two of 10 on threes. And now they have firepower in Boston. Like they don't need him to shoot well, but they do need him to shoot well sometimes.

Speaker 3:
[35:22] Well, they need Peyton Pitcher to score. He had four points on two of eight.

Speaker 1:
[35:26] That's the thing. Not only did they miss some shots from their core guys, but Pritchard and White, neither one were there to sort of rescue the situation.

Speaker 2:
[35:35] I would posit this was not an offensive loss. True, but I forget about that.

Speaker 1:
[35:40] I'm just saying, Derek White's got to, at some point, he's got to hit some shots.

Speaker 2:
[35:45] I agree with you. But the Sixers had an offensive rating of 125 in this game. Okay, this was a defensive loss.

Speaker 3:
[35:52] This was an ass whooping. They scored 97 points and had only two guys scoring double figures.

Speaker 2:
[35:56] Yeah, it was a two-point game with six minutes to go. And then the Sixers hit some shots and won the game. I wouldn't say they whipped them. But what I would say is, again, I go back to this drop coverage, like the Celtics under Joe Missoula are very dogmatic. They do what they're going to do and that's what they do. And they came into this game clearly saying, we're going to dare this Sixers team to make shots, because they missed shots in game one. They immediately stopped shooting them. They took five threes, the embedded portion of the second half, they took seven threes in the entire second half of the game. Basically said, we're going to dare these guys to shoot the ball and we think we're going to win. And again, they let Tyrese Maxey come off of one screen, one pull up, come around a screen, pull up and shoot after another. Same with Vijay and those guys, nailed shots and the Celtics had this game in control at different points and did what they have done in the past, which is turn off and take a lot of threes and let their opponent back in the game. And Brian, we've covered dozens of Celtics games. I've covered more than you, but you've covered plenty the last 8, 10 years. And this is the same script we've seen countless times from this team. This is what they have done over and over and over again.

Speaker 1:
[37:17] This team loves nothing more than to extend series. I mean, the amount of times I have stomped off to the airport to fly to a game that should not have happened because the Celtics did a game like this.

Speaker 2:
[37:32] Yes. And listen, you're right about Derek White. He shot 32% from three this year. He sort of reverted back to what he was at San Antonio from shooting. He's been a better shooter than that for the last several years. I expect him to start making shots at some point, but he hasn't. So we'll see if that changes. You mentioned Peyton Pritchard McMahon. He has not been great. But I think the Celtics will score enough to be all right. But again, look, I think Boston's winning the series. But coming into the series, the Sixers aren't a decent matchup for them. The Celtics have never done well guarding Maxey. They don't have a super matchup to guard Edgecombe either. And Paul George looks really good. He's settled in as a second or third option. Today, when they get in a rough spot and they need a bucket, they throw it to him on the block, the block extended on the baseline. He gets a turnaround jumper that he's obviously made a million times in his career.

Speaker 3:
[38:29] He's healthy and has fresh legs. I mean, seriously, the suspension.

Speaker 2:
[38:32] That's 25 game suspension. He feels good, looks good physically. They've got Kelly Rube and Quinton Grimes and all these other wings. They could Justin Edwards, who's had a really good game today. They got a lot of long wings. They can throw out their different points on the Celtics perimeter players. And again, we'll see if Embiid can come back. And even if he comes in for 15 minutes a game and it's just a different dimension they can throw at the Celtics offensively to get some fouls and score some buckets. Like they have the potential to make this an interesting series. And this was my question after game one. Can the Celtics take care of business and keep the Sixers down? And again, like you said, they love to have long series. They've let the Sixers off the mat. Game three is Friday night in Philly. Crowd there is going to be absolutely crazy. And we'll see over the next few days where Embiid is at.

Speaker 1:
[39:29] I think we've got five series that are 1-1, right? Five?

Speaker 2:
[39:35] I think. Least.

Speaker 1:
[39:37] And the one seed in the east is down 0-1 that are playing on Wednesdays. So yeah, you know, first round is looking spicy.

Speaker 2:
[39:46] Remember on Sunday night when it seemed like everything was boring?

Speaker 1:
[39:48] Well, I never take that.

Speaker 2:
[39:52] I'm setting you up for your game one line, Brian.

Speaker 1:
[39:53] Of course. Never overreact to game one.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 1:
[41:32] Okay, so we've got two series that went to 1-1 on Monday night. The Cavs went up 2-0, Harden and Mitchell looked like they could be a real factor playing half-court basketball. We'll be talking about them in the future. But I want to start with the game that you were at, Bontemps. You were at the Hawks' dramatic victory late, CJ. McCollum, with one of the best playoff moments he's had since he was a Blazer.

Speaker 2:
[41:57] Dropping F-bombs on live TV.

Speaker 1:
[42:02] He's just a married man with two kids.

Speaker 3:
[42:04] I like that. You like being a Madison Square Garden villain? He said, I'm a nice guy who has two kids and a wife.

Speaker 2:
[42:14] CJ was feeling great after the game. I said, nice game to him. He said, yeah, you're one of those guys picked against us too, right? I said, yeah, I did. I was just trying to give you some motivation. He goes, I just look forward to you being on live TV saying you were wrong. I said, get three more wins and I will.

Speaker 1:
[42:26] Well, that's what they call it. They're feeling themselves.

Speaker 2:
[42:30] They were. They were. They stole that one flat out on Monday night.

Speaker 1:
[42:37] I've said this before. One of my rules, I know I sound annoying when I talk about my rules, but the first way that you get upset in a playoff series is you, as a favorite, is that you give away a game that you have. The second way is you give away home court. The Knicks did that one fell swoop.

Speaker 3:
[42:55] By the way, the Knicks should know that because that's what they did to the Celtics last year.

Speaker 1:
[42:58] Correct. Now Bontemps, so I know that there was this discourse about Jalen Brunson. Is he a defensive liability because they hunted him? Yes.

Speaker 3:
[43:09] Of course.

Speaker 1:
[43:09] He's a defensive liability. He's under-sized and not that fast. He's been a defensive liability since he was in high school.

Speaker 2:
[43:16] It's a very odd discourse.

Speaker 1:
[43:17] Guess what? He won championships as a defensive liability at Villanova and he's won 100 games and he is the Clutch Player of the Year and the Knicks were one of the best Clutch teams in the league. Yeah, he's going to get hunted. Guess what? CJ. McCollum gets hunted defensively. He's a defensive liability.

Speaker 3:
[43:35] That's right. If you ask Jayden Brunson, hey, do you like that matchup with McCollum when you've got the ball in your hands? He'll say, what do you think? Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:42] We're rejecting that.

Speaker 3:
[43:43] Just like McCollum said.

Speaker 1:
[43:44] We're rejecting that on this podcast. Of course. Bontemps, what I want to ask you is, Mike Brown, I mean, there's a number of things going on, but Mike Brown has, I don't understand why. Maybe there's a good reason I just don't get. I'm thick headed. He started sitting Carl Townes and Jalen Brunson at the same time, including in the fourth quarter of this game, which kickstarted Atlanta's run. What do you think about that? What's going on there?

Speaker 2:
[44:14] It's insane. I mean, let's just call it like it is. It's insane. I've had a lot of people around the league hit me and say, why is Mike Brown refusing to split up Jalen Brunson and Carl Townes? And look, they've had some synergy late in the season, and they're trying to lean into that, and they wanted to play together. That's fine. The Knicks have a ton of offensive talent, and at two points in this game, they had a lineup on the court anchored offensively by Jordan Clarkson. Jordan Clarkson, who is at the end of his rope as a player, had a very good career, but should not be anchoring lineups for a playoff team that thinks they can make the finals.

Speaker 3:
[44:48] What's his explanation?

Speaker 2:
[44:51] I mean, he just wants to have those guys playing together. They want to maximize the minutes they're out there on the court. I mean, that's what they've said about it. I reject this as a plausible theory. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, look, this was just a weird game, and it's been a weird two games because the Knicks have largely controlled the first two games of the series. And in the fourth quarter of both games, the Hawks have made runs. In game one, they got down to within eight with about two minutes to go, and then couldn't hit a couple shots and never got much closer. And in this game, obviously, they went on, I think, a 15-0 run over the final five minutes when the Knicks just didn't score for a five-minute stretch. But Jalen Johnson has been flat out bad through two games. He has not been the all-NBA player that I voted him as through the first two games. He's been basically invisible for large stretches of it. The Hawks got bailed out in game two by Jonathan Kaminga, who had a great game and played with a ton of force.

Speaker 1:
[45:53] He had one of the best games of his career.

Speaker 2:
[45:55] Absolutely.

Speaker 3:
[45:56] Did the guys they traded for, won that game for him.

Speaker 2:
[45:59] CJ. McCollum and Jonathan Kaminga for Trey Young and Chris Tasparsingas. No question, those guys were great down the stretch of that game. Kaminga replaced Issa Daniels, who has been iffy offensively for his couple of games. So Atlanta goes home, having not really played well yet with the Series 1-1. And you know, it's going to be fascinating to see how the Knicks respond to this because this is a team that has been sort of in a weird place all season. They remind me of the 2019 Celtics, where everybody is like, oh, this team is going to put it together. They're going to figure it out. They got all these pieces and they just never did. And perhaps they will. But you know, Mike Brown has a horrendous gaffe with the timeouts, calls him, doesn't call, use it for lose it, use it to lose the timeout, then calls the timeout with 2.43 to go. When Jalen Brunson has an advantage in the half-court.

Speaker 1:
[46:50] Just pause you there. Use it or lose it. In the NBA, you're only allowed three timeouts in the fourth quarter and inside three minutes, you're only allowed two. So if you don't use the one timeout, it goes away. So you often see coaches calling timeout between four and a half and three minutes, if for no other reason, to just give his players a breather and to drop a play. And so Mike Brown calls a timeout 12 seconds late and then they end up with one timeout.

Speaker 2:
[47:15] Donald does not use to use it or lose it. He calls it after the three minute mark goes by. And it was while Gene LeBron had an advantage in the half quarter. Like it just didn't make any sense at all. And then they could have used that timeout at the end of the game, which obviously the broadcast said they had, but they didn't.

Speaker 1:
[47:31] By the way, I know everybody's hyperventilating about that. McHale Bridges got a decent look. That's to win the game. It's an 18 footer.

Speaker 2:
[47:39] I mean, it was very classic. McHale Bridges refusing to get in any contact at all, where he probably had a pretty clear path to the rim.

Speaker 1:
[47:45] It's a 40% shot to win the game. What do you want?

Speaker 2:
[47:47] Yeah, it was fine. Given they got the rebound with five and a half seconds to go, like that was a fine look. But yeah, I mean, the Knicks should be up 2-0, and start of the fourth quarter of that game, they're up 12, and it looked like the Knicks are going to win the series in a comfortable five. And all of a sudden now it's 1-1, and the series are going to Atlanta.

Speaker 1:
[48:07] And I would say it's uncomfortable. All right, MacMahon, up 35 way from where you're at now. We got a game three coming up at the end of the week here between Denver and Minnesota 1-1. The Wolves have a impressive victory, and your pedicure buddy, if you don't know.

Speaker 3:
[48:29] I will say the same.

Speaker 1:
[48:31] I saw the Wolves in three different times this year. The three different times of the season, I want to say it was early December, late November, then January and then like March. And all three times I saw Chris Finch and talked to him. One time Bontemps was out here with me. And all three times he talked about how Rudy Gobert was helping him keep the season together with his defense. And for all the people who bad mouth Gobert, which you know, fine. For all the times that Rudy drives his teammates up the wall when he can't catch a pass or when he complains that they don't throw him a pass. The guy's defensive impact on the game. And by the way, like I remember the first time I met Chris Finch was shortly after they made the Gobert trade. And I went to training camp in Minnesota and he walked me through why he thought that was such a great movie. He has been a Gobert supporter since day one. And you see in this game why it was so valuable. Because Denver is just not, you know, Jadon McDaniels went viral because he was talking about how the Nuggets have no good defenders. The Nuggets don't have a good defense. That is absolutely true.

Speaker 3:
[49:46] They don't. When he just said Aaron Gordon, I'm like, Aaron Gordon's not a bad defender now?

Speaker 1:
[49:51] Anyways, go on.

Speaker 2:
[49:52] This is a good old-fashioned NBA rivalry where nobody on both sides likes each other. And that 45-second or minute-long clip encapsulated all of that.

Speaker 3:
[50:02] And it's the third time they've seen each other in a playoff series in a recent stretch here. By the way, that 19-point comeback, 19-point comeback, the second biggest comeback in Minnesota playoff franchise history. I know the first one. Yeah. Game seven in Denver.

Speaker 1:
[50:20] And by the way, post-game road playoff win, Ant Edwards brings it.

Speaker 3:
[50:25] It's one of one.

Speaker 2:
[50:26] We'll just put it that way.

Speaker 1:
[50:27] You know, that was the, you know, remember the whole bring-you-ass thing to Charles Barkley. And I think he, when they won in Dallas in the conference files a couple of years ago, he like said something to the locker room attendant or whatever. And he's got the big old man sunglasses on and he's, you know, saying that Dante DiVincenzo has gorilla nuts and stuff like that.

Speaker 3:
[50:50] Hit some big shots.

Speaker 1:
[50:52] Yeah, you think that Knicks could have used Dante DiVincenzo? Anyway, the reason this game, this game was decided at the other end of the court with Gobert defending Jokic and just generally the defense at McDaniels. And, you know, I will say that I wouldn't look this up. The last three years, the Nuggets have finished first, third and third in clutch net rating. When they get to clutch time, they're killer and that's, you don't need advanced analysis. It's because they go to the pick and roll with Murray and Jokic and it's very, very difficult to script out and stop.

Speaker 3:
[51:28] Although they've been choppy this year in the clutch.

Speaker 1:
[51:30] Correct. So this year they were 17th. And I asked some people why and nobody has a clean answer. Maybe there is a clean answer, but I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[51:38] Well, here's the other thing. When I was going through my ballot, I went through my ballot with Stats Williams on Friday afternoon. We were talking through all the different awards and he was pushing me. It's like Jamal Murray and Jokic. You got to look at him for Clutch Player of the Year. I said, there's no way I'm voting for either of those guys, even though their numbers are great, when the whole story of the Luggett season has been their foibles in the clutch over and over and over again. And then you get to the final 20 seconds of this game, Nicole Jokic just flat out does not want to shoot a 10-foot floater, which we've seen him make a billion times. He tries to throw this crazy pass to Christian Brown through Anthony Edwards, who almost stole it, ends up, and then Brown gets fouled and makes one of two. And then, I don't know what the hell Jamal Murray was doing on this final possession, where he dribbles around for 15 seconds down three and then takes a step back 17 footer. It was one of the craziest shots you'll see from an experienced guy who's been money in that spot so many times. Those two guys look tired and just completely whiffed in a giant spot in the game.

Speaker 3:
[52:49] But getting back to Gobert, Joker is one of eight shooting against Gobert. And look, Joker has had some massive games against Rudy. I'm not going to sit here and tell you he's a Joker stopper. I'm going to say he had a hell of a game defensively last night. Not coincidently, Rudy did his passive-aggressive stuff talking about not being a finalist for defense player of the year. I can tell you Rudy feels like this was maybe his best defensive season. There are metrics that support that. He's a four-time defense player of the year. And I do agree with Finch. For him to not be in the top three, that was weird.

Speaker 2:
[53:27] He was third on our ballots. I know that, Brian.

Speaker 3:
[53:29] It was definitely Rudy fatigue. I get that, like with the voters, but like, he was a top three defender in the league. There's no question about that. And listen, Rudy's love language, he's got two of them.

Speaker 1:
[53:42] One, French.

Speaker 3:
[53:45] A lot of passes. Two, awards. He cares deeply about awards. And so he felt a certain sort of way, and he went out and had a statement type performance, even though his box score line is not impressive at all.

Speaker 1:
[54:00] Yeah, so those series both are a little unpredictable at this point.

Speaker 2:
[54:07] And yet another example of Denver getting a big lead in a game two, and like the Celtics, just putting themselves in a very difficult spot. Like that first quarter, the end of the first quarter, it looked like they were going to run away with this series, and now they have not.

Speaker 1:
[54:22] I just want to say where we are in 2026, both LeBron James and Alpern Shungun had to give press conference answers today about viral videos.

Speaker 3:
[54:34] Oh, God.

Speaker 1:
[54:37] Shungun, what, you know, he got caught like before game one, standing up when LeBron walked by pregame, and it was like, oh my God, look at Alpern Shungun. He's so intimidated by LeBron. He stands at attention when he goes by, and he was like, no, I was getting a piece of gum out of my pocket. And then there was this video of LeBron that went viral of him, like, you know, nonverbal communicating with just a couple of looks. And there was actually some hilarious comments on that. And LeBron revealed, this is what they say on aggregation sites, LeBron revealed, all caps, the inside story of LeBron revealing that he was, people thought it was Tabrani, like, oh, that he's been given. He said it was, no, it was Demarcus Smart. So this is where we are. We now have to give updates and breakdowns, not of the game, not a game, not a game, a viral video. So who knows what tomorrow will bring? Oh, it's already tomorrow. Thank you very much to Jackson and Mark, our producers, who are staying up through the night to put this together so you can enjoy it on Wednesday morning and Wednesday afternoon on ESPN2. Thank you to Bontemps, who gets getting about three hours sleep before he flies back.

Speaker 2:
[55:45] I wish it was three.

Speaker 1:
[55:46] Thank you to New York. Thank you to MacMahon, who was at the Tiki tonight.

Speaker 3:
[55:50] That's not true. You are defaming me.

Speaker 1:
[55:53] That is a lie. That is a lie. He was at the Goat.

Speaker 3:
[55:56] No, I was in my room after a night at the Goat last night.

Speaker 1:
[56:03] All right. Thank you for listening and watching Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you in less than 48 hours.

Speaker 3:
[56:09] Adios, amigos.

Speaker 6:
[56:21] For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at thrivent.com.