transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Before we start with the music, just introduce yourself.

Speaker 2:
[00:02] What's up, my name's Ernest.

Speaker 1:
[00:04] I want to get a deeper understanding of country music songwriting. So the first song I'm gonna play is not a country song. But you can tell me who the artist is and what this song means to you.

Speaker 2:
[00:18] Everything. All right.

Speaker 1:
[00:31] I want to start with that song.

Speaker 2:
[00:33] That's better than Coffee.

Speaker 1:
[00:35] You're a fan.

Speaker 2:
[00:35] I love it. I love it. Yeah, that was like third grade, third grade me. I had no business knowing all those words as a third grader, especially at a private Christian school. But my dad coached baseball, so I had access to all the high schoolers' burnt CDs. That burnt CD specifically had some stuff on it. I remember my mom, it was after one of my dad's baseball games. We were leaving, I think I was in fourth grade. We're going to go eat at a cheeseburger place, cheeseburger Charlie's actually. I was listening to my little Walkman or whatever, and I forget what song it was. I feel like Ass Like That came out later, but it was some shit that my mom did not want me listening to that she heard coming through. She was like, what is that? Took it out of the CD player, snapped it in half, threw it out the window. I was like, you're going to tell your dad what you're listening to. I'm like, and I just remember thinking, I want to do this when I grow up, evoke that kind of emotion out of somebody. The word play and flow is just like, I've been addicted to that for a long time.

Speaker 1:
[01:34] I grew up pretty close to this neighborhood, and if you wanted to go to Virgin, Megastore or whatever, you had to be 18 to buy a CD with the sticker, and my parents wouldn't let me do that. But you could go to St. Mark's and you could get the burnt ones.

Speaker 2:
[01:46] That's all you needed.

Speaker 1:
[01:47] It was the same thing.

Speaker 3:
[01:48] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[01:50] That's all you needed. I wouldn't have found him and him though. The Space Jam soundtrack is what sent me down the hip-hop and R&B thing, because my household was listening to country, oldies, Chuck Wagon Gang, Gospel acapella stuff, and sports radio. Then unbeknownst to what it would do for my life, my uncle gave me the Space Jam. Because Space Jam was like my most watched movie. So they gave me the Space Jam soundtrack that Christmas.

Speaker 1:
[02:17] I mean, I believe I Can Fly is the one that stands out. That's like the most famous.

Speaker 2:
[02:20] It's great. But Hit Em High, Hit Em Low is the one that sent me down the raffle. That's what got me to there. Light in the stripes, the course lights. Get to Supreme competition is about to begin. Above the rim, finessing and moving. I was like, yo, this is crazy. Then I heard Eminem were like, is he really saying some crazy shit? I'm like, oh yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1:
[02:44] All right. Did you have any idea that you wanted to be a musician? You wanted to be a professional baseball player? Where were you at as a kid?

Speaker 2:
[02:51] As a kid, I was always playing instruments. My parents weren't musical. My cousin was, so I would play his guitars from a young age. He taught me chords on guitar. My grandmother's house had a piano, so after church on Sundays, I would go back and play by ear some church songs from that day, and parents got me a drum set. I was always supplied with music and sought it out as much as I did baseball because I grew up on a baseball field, but I was bringing my banjo to baseball games and shit.

Speaker 1:
[03:27] So when did you start writing?

Speaker 2:
[03:29] Probably fourth or fifth grade. I'm just trying to think what I would consider writing. I was writing poems in fourth and fifth grade, and I'd go back and note two or three chords on a guitar.

Speaker 1:
[03:41] Combine them.

Speaker 2:
[03:42] And sing. I could always come up with melody for as long as I can remember. So when I'd write a poem, I'd have the melody in my head, but I couldn't really lock it in until I grabbed a guitar and figured it out. They were like, let's hold hands and walk around, songs to show the fifth grade girl. Which brings you to. Exactly. That was literally you. That was me. That was literally me. So that's when I heard this song, I was like, yeah, I've been that guy.

Speaker 1:
[04:19] Okay, that's the king.

Speaker 2:
[04:20] That's the king.

Speaker 1:
[04:21] Tell me about him.

Speaker 2:
[04:23] He was the soundtrack of Riding Around in My Dad's Truck the most. We had that 50 number one double CD, and I actually found one of those CDs last time I was at my parents. I don't know where the part two is, but I listen to that all the time. Then obviously, he was on the radio everywhere, but the George Strait, 50 of them at third, fourth, fifth grade, sculpted a lot of just like, we have Comfort Foods, that's comfort music for me. I can just turn off and listen to George Strait all day. I went that with a lot of country music, but George was like the first one, and the most listened to of him and Alan Jackson between what my mom listened to too.

Speaker 1:
[05:05] You grew up in Nashville?

Speaker 2:
[05:07] Born and raised.

Speaker 1:
[05:08] So when did you become aware of like the industry?

Speaker 2:
[05:12] I would say I became aware of the industry.

Speaker 1:
[05:14] Is it like being a kid who grows up in Hollywood, in LA? Like you know about movies, like we don't?

Speaker 2:
[05:19] I guess, but I mean, it was more of a sports household, but I was aware of people that were around, like Vince Gill and Amy would do like lighting of the green, which my lighting of the green is very different than theirs. They were lighting a Christmas tree at Lipscomb at the campus, and I always knew they were a new Vince Gill. Billy Dean, when I was in the third grade, third and fourth grade were very impactful for me musically because I was best friends with his son Eli Dean all through elementary school, and Billy was a big country singer in the 90s that I always heard on the radio, and then he would pick me and Eli up and take us to a restaurant. We'd go in the back door, and as a fourth grader, this is sick, and he would let us listen to Slim Shady on the way there, and like, this guy is the coolest. I want to do this when I grow up. There was several instances throughout my childhood of being aware by proxy of family friends or cousins who, my cousin wanted, he went to Belmont, he was an engineer, so I knew I got to go visit studios when I was young. One of my player's dads was a Grand Ole Opry steel guitar player as well as like big session player in the 80s and 90s. He took me to the Grand Ole Opry for the first time when I was like 10. In between set changes, I got to stand in the circle and look out and be like, I want to do this when I grow up. Several moments I can go back now and pinpoint that were like super pivotal for me now.

Speaker 1:
[06:45] When did you start to understand the songwriting business that Nashville is so famous for? I think about someone like George, a lot of his songs were written by other people. Then there's all these famous writers behind the scenes, and then there's the stars. But then there's other artists who will get into where they do both. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:06] Another lucky friendship for me when you relate it to where I am now, the Tenpenny's. Mitchell Tenpenny and his younger brother, Rafe. Rafe and me were in the same class since 5th grade. Mitchell and Rafe are like brothers. I spent many nights on the couch at the Tenpenny household, or the Hillie, which is Mitchell's grandmother. Mitchell and Rafe's grandmother was Donna Hillie. She was dained the Queen of Music Row through the late 80s, all through the 90s, signed all those big acts that we know from 90s country, Sony ATV. The first Sony ATV hoodie I had in the 7th grade, I thought it was like an off road, like a four wheeler. I was like, oh, I didn't know Sony made four wheelers. I was like, that's sick. It must be high tech. But then I get older because she always let Mitchell have a studio in the basement of their house. And that's where we were cutting our teeth, 5th, 6th, 7th grade, 8th, all through high school. We'd get in after school, go down to the basement. Pro Tools would be up with whatever Mitchell and his friend group made, four years older than us. You know, we'd save, delete, and leave up whatever we made. So we were always bouncing stuff back and forth. And I was aware of the song, to answer your question, I was aware of songwriting through the Hillies, through Sony ATV, and then you got more educated on it when I decided to drop out of college and pursue it for real. And the Warren brothers were really instrumental in educating me and getting me into the rooms to start with.

Speaker 1:
[08:38] Were you listening to older country music, too? It sounds like the main thing was that 80s and 90s stuff was always on, but when did you start to go back?

Speaker 2:
[08:47] I would say I really started to go back maybe 2016, 17, like 60s, 50s, all that, because I was always aware of Ray Price and that era because of my grandmother. And now I have a much better appreciation for it because it was so beautiful. Early Willie Nelson stuff, Funny How Time Slips Away, it makes sense why his songs are simple like they are. Because he says he writes most of his songs while he's driving, like crazy and I think any Funny How Time Slips Away, he wrote on the same four-day drive from Austin to Nashville without a guitar. So I was like, oh, I get that because they are poem. If you read it, it reads like a poem. And I think that's what makes that era so good because it just was simple. The Hag. Haggard can give a.

Speaker 1:
[09:59] Okay, go right there.

Speaker 2:
[10:01] Yeah, so Hag, to me, I mean, he's probably in my top listen to right now for sure. Hag, Jones, Whitley, David Allen Coe. That's like, that's my comfort food as of late. So let me just give you a little lineage, because to go from Strait to Haggard, early on, George Strait wanted to sound like Merle Haggard. Early on, Merle Haggard wanted to sound like Lefty Frazell. And like the DNA and all of it, and you listen to early versions of all of them, everybody was trying to do, if you go back and listen to Lefty Frazell, anybody watching this, you hear, it's like, oh, that's like Haggard, that's how Haggard tried singing. So early on, Haggard was opening for Lefty Frazell, and Lefty heard Haggard's set, and this had to be nerve wracking, because Lefty went up and was like, no, you go out for my set and sing a couple of my songs too, you're doing the bit anyways. Basically, put him on the spot, and I was like, damn. But yeah, early George Strait, he just tried, who didn't want to be Merle Haggard? Yeah, the way he... But you can see Haggard.

Speaker 1:
[11:23] So I had to just throw that out for a second to give us a taste.

Speaker 2:
[11:25] Yeah, I just think it's cool. Every genre has that, but to me, it's important to know where stuff started and go all the way back. You can take that back or as far as deep as you want.

Speaker 1:
[11:38] Merle was in prison at San Quentin.

Speaker 2:
[11:41] Yes, he was.

Speaker 1:
[11:42] And Johnny Cash came and played at the prison when he was there.

Speaker 2:
[11:46] Yeah, it's insane.

Speaker 1:
[11:47] And he was like, I got to get my act together. When I get out of here, I'm going to do that. It's like one of those stories that you hear and you're like, how is that?

Speaker 2:
[11:56] It's a movie.

Speaker 1:
[11:58] That's real?

Speaker 2:
[11:59] Yeah. Yeah, that's insane. I don't know. I feel like unless somebody comes out of any of the jails me and Jelly Roll visited on our tour, I don't think that kind of story will ever happen again. But it could. No, I mean, dude, remember Jelly Roll had like four or five guys released for the night to come to our concert and like, dude sang on stage and writing. That was incredible. Yeah, those moments are insane. That's what makes Legends Legends though, like having those stories.

Speaker 1:
[12:24] Yeah. So, okay. So we covered Merle. We talked a little bit further back. You know, we talked about George Jones a little bit. I was thinking about maybe playing that, but we covered George Jones.

Speaker 2:
[12:34] We covered George Jones.

Speaker 1:
[12:35] There was someone else you mentioned and I just love this song.

Speaker 2:
[12:50] What a voice.

Speaker 1:
[12:51] There's two writers on there, Paul Overstreet and Don Schlitz, who show up on hundreds and hundreds.

Speaker 2:
[12:59] Paul Overstreet is his newest inductee into the country, songwriter's hall of fame.

Speaker 1:
[13:04] Well-deserved.

Speaker 2:
[13:05] Yeah. That's just such a fun era to write in, I feel like, or would have been. I think it's actually coming back a little bit to that because those types of songs are getting cut again with guys like Zack and Jake Worthington and all that. But that's a fun playground to create in, which is pretty songs. It doesn't have to be like, they weren't writing songs for the pop viral moment like stage moments. They were writing songs for people to listen to on that or a track and drive and go get a slushy in a 1500 and drive around a fucking small. They're creating from such a different place in their minds, and I think that's why those songs, why we keep coming back to them.

Speaker 1:
[13:51] You talk about like writing for that era. How does that impact you like now? Are you aware of certain things that are like trends that are happening or sounds? Are you listening to like all types of music and how that's reflected in stuff you guys are writing? How does that work?

Speaker 2:
[14:05] I think there's just so many more elements to artistry now than there was then when it was like, here's the song, here's the record, radio plays it, I'll go play a show. If you look at the concerts from Hank Junior, 1979 playing at a big outdoor festival, people are sitting at folding tables and not standing or going, you know what I mean? He's boogieing. People were just taking it in, it wasn't all the phone, it wasn't all for a video. There was video footage of it, but it was so in the moment. So I'm aware now that when I'm writing, say I'm writing stuff with or for Morgan or big acts that are having those moments on stage, we write from a different perspective because there's energy, it has to bring energy. And there's obviously great songs of the 80s and 90s have energy, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying back then I feel like that was secondary. And sometimes now it's like you have to, people are getting drum beats first. This changed a lot. This is the first of its, this is the prototype for the era. You can hear the rap influence and the flow, so yeah. Damn. Nostalgia just kept in.

Speaker 1:
[15:47] That thing, tell me about that sound.

Speaker 2:
[15:51] Charlie Handsome, who is a super badass, he was on early posty stuff, Post Malone as a producer, and that go flex sound is Charlie Handsome's brainchild. Acoustic, super drawn out, ghost melodic stuff happening, being used as instruments, and badass drums. He came from Atlanta, moved out to LA., slept on Rex Kudo's couch, and just grinded. And got all the way to early 2017, I'm out in LA at Warner Chappell Studios, or it was Universal Studios, one of the two I should know. Nonetheless, it was my first time meeting Charlie Handsome, and I was out there writing rap hooks and stuff with different producers and just freestyling. So that's what I was going to do that day, and he had a bunch of Post Malone type beats set up, and I got on a microphone and freestyled a bunch of stuff. And then he was like, he's like, yo, we could do this more often. I was like, yeah, we should definitely do this more. I was like, come to Nashville, because at that time I was already in with FGL, Sam Hunt, Chris Lane, Morgan. There was that whole community already there.

Speaker 1:
[17:08] It was bubbling up.

Speaker 2:
[17:09] It was bubbling, but it was missing one thing. When Charlie and I went to Nashville, or when he came to Nashville, I think he wrote with T-Hub and somebody on a Monday, Tuesday, me, him and Morgan got up, and that was the first song. Hardy came, we finished it, and then like maybe Thursday, we wrote More Than My Hometown. Between now and then, I think we've had like 35 to 40 songs together with Morgan, me, Charlie and Morgan being the... Yeah, it's kind of wild.

Speaker 1:
[17:51] What is that bass? Like at the big...

Speaker 2:
[17:54] It's just an electric guitar. It's just one string on an electric guitar.

Speaker 1:
[17:58] And it's just like, where does that come from? It's just around?

Speaker 2:
[18:01] And that's another thing. Like we write so many different ways. Like he has such a large bank of guitar loops. He's a fantastic guitar player. Like he's very musical. And his well of music is very deep, all genres. As for Morgan, Hardy and I, we all share that. Like we can go any direction deep and find deep cuts in any genre and have fun listening to music. So combining those two worlds, bringing my flow and kind of freestyle, just not overthinking shit approach to Morgan's voice, also his melodic instincts. Like he's a very musical guy and a great songwriter too. And then you got Charlie's tracks. And then for the real click is when Hardy comes in, because he's so methodical. Like me and him are polar opposite writers. And sometimes it doesn't work, but when it does, it's because he can see the whole picture and then I can blah, blah, blah. I'm also totally, more than my hometown, I bet I wrote a word. Like Hardy was savage assassination on a song like that. You know, and that combination, in any form or fashion, typically Charlie and Morgan would be the, the common denominator. And then you can add in different storytellers to that.

Speaker 1:
[19:29] When you guys first started making those songs, did you realize, were you like, this is going to be the biggest thing in the world? Like we were going to go to the top of the-

Speaker 2:
[19:38] And we still, we still approach it the same way.

Speaker 1:
[19:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[19:41] I know that sounds-

Speaker 1:
[19:42] You're like, this is just a fire song.

Speaker 2:
[19:43] Yeah. That's literally how we still do it. And we consciously talk about it. It's like, dude, don't try to, we don't have to try to one up anything. We just, we know when it's fire or dirt, as Morgan will say. That's just dirt. Dirt. Yeah. Like it feels, Heartless was the first one where we were like, that was me, Charlie and Ryan Hurd. Ryan Hurd brought that title in. Charlie pulled that track up. And that song was written in like 20 minutes. That second verse of Heartless was me one take freestyle. And it's like those moments, I remember hearing that and being like, this is going to be sick because at the time, Diplo was doing his first Thomas Wesley thing. And I sent it to Morgan and Seth. I was like, this could be sick for the Diplo thing. And sure enough, it was Heartless. You can find the connectors for so many songs that started with like just three or four. Each one of those, like there's a More Than My Hometown, a Heartless, and If I Know Me, and like Somebody's Problem, and then there's derivatives off of each guy, they got you Wall-E World.

Speaker 1:
[21:04] Damn, there's a few different choices here. Where to go next?

Speaker 2:
[21:08] Choose wisely.

Speaker 1:
[21:21] That's kind of just straightforward songwriting, right?

Speaker 2:
[21:25] Plain and simple. You could plug and go a bunch of different artists on that, but written by T-Hub and Morgan, like I said, either of those guys could have had a hit with that song. Anybody that sang it, it's such a great song, so easy to sing and remember. And then if I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong, but I think that was Morgan's first number one as a songwriter.

Speaker 1:
[21:46] I think so.

Speaker 2:
[21:47] Is that right, Addy? Is that also maybe T-Hub's first outside cut? There wasn't an FGL thing. Maybe he had another one. I don't want to speak on that, but I am pretty sure that was Morgan's first. And yeah, that was one of those. When you hear Aldean's voice on it, I know that feeling as a songwriter when it goes from demo to you hear the artist's voice on it for the first time, it's like, well, damn, there's one. You can never predict what a song's life will look like, but you can't argue the feeling you feel when you hear it. I'll give you that.

Speaker 1:
[22:19] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[22:19] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[22:20] I'm pretty sure I heard the story of Sia. Sia got her start because she wrote a song for Rihanna or something, and it was going to happen. And then Rihanna was like, and then Sia exposed, because the song is that good. But if Rihanna did it, it would also have been massive. There's the Beaver song that-

Speaker 2:
[22:37] Ed Sheeran.

Speaker 1:
[22:37] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[22:38] You should go love yourself. Songs are funny. Because I do think the steward matters. It's not always going to be true that a hit song will be a hit song just because anybody sang it. But that's what the magic is, is when those things line up.

Speaker 1:
[22:58] So how do you sometimes, that sometimes you have to make a tough choice, like, is this one for me? How do you think about a song should be versus-

Speaker 2:
[23:05] I feel like, you know, because of the Morgan brand, and I know it lives in there, I think I've probably misstepped a couple of times and actually kept songs I shouldn't have versus the other way around, you know, because I'm able to separate. Now I know, I know my boundaries as an artist. I have no boundaries as a songwriter, and I just have to like, it took me almost too long to know that. But yeah, I know that like, just like a picture like a baseball field, I know what's in bounds for me. And anything outside of that, there's a wide open world, including the parking lot and structures around the stadium to get those songs cut.

Speaker 1:
[23:52] So how often when you're writing, do you have someone's voice in mind versus you're just kind of figuring out the melody?

Speaker 2:
[23:59] Typically now, like if I'm writing for another artist, I'm just with another artist. So that being said, if a producer pulls up a track that's kind of just plug and go to freestyle on, I could easily snap into the mode of said artist while they're not there and pitch them an idea. When I do that, though, I'm less precious on lyrics. Like I'd rather just get like a hook or a verse chorus. Like, yo, this is a vibe. I'm not going to waste all day writing a song and speak for them. I'll be like, do you want to finish this?

Speaker 1:
[24:32] Like we were just recently with Megan Moroney. You worked on this song, right?

Speaker 2:
[24:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:38] She has such a distinct voice as a songwriter.

Speaker 2:
[24:42] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[24:56] Tell me about that song.

Speaker 2:
[24:58] I did the least on that, honestly. We started that chorus, and the vibe of that chorus, and then that long, long way, way down, had that, down to Cloud 9. She didn't have a concept, I don't think that was, the album title didn't exist, obviously. That was from a freestyle vibe, and then she took that and finished the song with Jesse Jo, and what's the other writer on it?

Speaker 1:
[25:21] Luke Laird.

Speaker 2:
[25:22] Yeah, Luke Laird. And so, yeah, that was one of those, kind of exactly what I'm talking about to get to this point, is sometimes the best thing is like a start, like just a little spark plug, and then the song doesn't have to be finished that day. Sometimes they fall out, sometimes enough falls out. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:43] She goes, waitress asked me, is Pepsi fine? I want a Coke, but said, it's more than all right. Like from a storytelling perspective, you're just like fucking in the thing. She does such a good job of getting you in the-

Speaker 2:
[25:59] Yes. She paints a nice picture for sure, always. Yeah. The literal songwriting side of that is cool. Because I do that sometimes, but that's more of my... Disassociation is not the word I'm looking for, which is an insane word to say. But when I'm freestyling, the majority of time when I'm writing, it is kind of disassociating from reality. Versus like Hardy, back to Hardy, pulls you right to reality with such like vivid imagery. If I land on vivid imagery, it's sometimes an accident because it's just like, I'll close my eyes and try to paint that picture best I can without overthinking because sometimes from here to here, I lose some of that sauce.

Speaker 1:
[26:43] Yeah. There's someone who's probably the most famous for that kind of storytelling songwriting and probably the biggest artist in the world.

Speaker 2:
[26:56] I would say so.

Speaker 1:
[26:58] And has inspired, like, countless people from all different types of genres.

Speaker 2:
[27:03] Yep. She took me back to the sophomore, junior high school.

Speaker 1:
[27:20] She's like 15, 16, writing that song.

Speaker 2:
[27:23] Atomic. Taylor Swift is atomic and has been since day one. She was so good for the genre at the time she showed up to, from a songwriting perspective, and to have her as such a polarizing character for our genre, I think it began the fresh popularity of country music as it is today.

Speaker 1:
[27:48] Then she exploded it.

Speaker 2:
[27:50] Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean.

Speaker 1:
[27:51] They broke out of it. It was like, okay, wait, we don't need to do this.

Speaker 2:
[27:54] We had Garth did that, and then there were moments in country along the way between Garth and Taylor. But Taylor didn't go pop. I understand she puts out pop records now and they're fantastic, and it's still coming from the integrity of a Nashville songwriter, a true Nashville songwriter. When it did pop off as country, it was like, hell yes, look at all of the lights on country music right now, and the trickle effect of that is still rippling today.

Speaker 1:
[28:26] She's so fucking good. You ever written anything?

Speaker 2:
[28:29] No, I would love to. Taylor Swift? I'd be down. Clip that chat. Am I cook chat? Am I cook by the Swifties chat?

Speaker 1:
[28:44] I was listening to this classic.

Speaker 2:
[28:55] Freakin Church.

Speaker 1:
[28:58] So he writes, you know, he writes and performs a lot of his own songs, and he doesn't have like a set style. Like he's kind of always changing it up.

Speaker 2:
[29:05] I love that. I love that about him. That's what makes him great. It's what makes him kind of a true outlaw. And songwriting-wise, like I saw him give flowers to Hardy not long ago for being such a great songwriter. I mean, that's high praise coming from Church because I know how much Church influenced all of us, you know, like as far as a pinnacle of what a singer-songwriter can sound like, look like. I mean, shall I wear sunglasses? You know, like there's like, he broke the mold of what's like normal, especially for what, 2012, 13, like Homeboy, like songs that just were so against the grain and the norm that he's seeing so naturally and he's able to, he's able to, you know, the Church cult, which is a crazy combination of words to say, but- The Eric Church cult is real. The Church cult, not to be confused with the Church Church cult. Yeah, this song's great. I got a funny story about this.

Speaker 1:
[30:31] Okay, tell me the story.

Speaker 2:
[30:33] That song is so good. So for comedic relief, on text, I'm talking to Tim McGraw about a total different song that me and Lucas Nelson are helping produce that he and Willie are going to sing. Separate conversation. And then McGraw texts me, this is like four months ago. He texts me out the blue and goes, hey, I'm putting vocals on that song on Monday. It's going to be awesome. I was like, hell yeah, thanks. And then he sent me MacArthur. I think McGraw thought he was texting Hardy. And in fact, I know now that's exactly what happened because I didn't have the balls to be like, this ain't the song I was talking about. Instead, I was like, this sounds great. He was like, thanks, man. Think it's going to be a huge song. Like you sound awesome. Like. And I didn't have the heart. So I mean, I let it, we talked and I was like, when are you going to do the vocals on the Willie thing? He's like, I'm going to do that next week. And then like a couple weeks ago, he texted me and was like, hey, man, I just realized like, I guess I was texting the wrong person about the MacArthur. So I was like, yeah, dog. I love that song though. So it's all good. I was just happy to get to hear it. I texted Morgan, I was like, bro, I think McGraw thinks I'm Hardy right now, which is crazy because he knows I'm not Hardy in other parts of the text message. But we got to love Tim McGraw. When I think Tim McGraw, I think MacArthur.

Speaker 1:
[32:00] The lines got crossed.

Speaker 2:
[32:02] The MacArthur lines got crossed.

Speaker 1:
[32:03] Wait, tell me about the other song.

Speaker 2:
[32:05] It's a song written by Jesse Joe Dillon and the Warren brothers. I won't go too far into depth about it, but it's cool. It was just ironic because Jesse Joe sent it to me. It was like, hey, me and the Warren brothers just wrote this. I think Tim McGraw and Willie are going to cut it. Not long after, Luke is not knowing I had heard that already. Lucas called and was like, hey, do you want to help me produce this thing for my dad and Tim? I was like, hell yeah. So we went in and cut the record and we're just waiting on vocals. But Willie sang the whole thing down already.

Speaker 1:
[32:38] When you're producing something like that, what's your role?

Speaker 2:
[32:42] Book the band, get in there, play it down, they chart it, and we just fill it out and coach parts.

Speaker 1:
[32:52] Literally choosing which instruments to include.

Speaker 2:
[32:54] Yeah, that's what I've really enjoyed doing that last year. So I've done that. I did my whole record with Jacob Durrett that way. And I've had a lot of fun. I've done working on a couple of different projects with Lucas doing that. And I'm open to producing more records moving forward. I really love that side of it. Writing and producing, it's really fun.

Speaker 1:
[33:16] That's a huge part of the story. It's like when you take a song and turn it into a record, especially a country record, how much do we put the pedal steel on this or not? We bring some strings in, when do we do that stuff?

Speaker 2:
[33:31] That's kind of my, if I had a signature for what I would do is like that type of stuff, gut string guitars, pedal steel, fiddle, make it country. I run everything I do for myself at least through the Opry filter, where it's like if the Opry band can play this with what they got on stage, then that's good, it's good for me.

Speaker 1:
[33:52] That song MacArthur we were just listening to, it's like classic old school kind of...

Speaker 2:
[33:57] Song of the Year material, yeah, it's shit.

Speaker 1:
[33:59] Band, there's no beat, there's no hip hop influence in there, it's just like old school. Is that a signal, you think, like the fact that Hardy kind of put that together? He's like, oh, let's go in this direction?

Speaker 2:
[34:10] I think, I mean, the production will always follow the song, and I think that song didn't call for anything other than four incredible voices and, you know.

Speaker 1:
[34:20] So good.

Speaker 2:
[34:21] Yeah, like they could have done less even. You know, it could have just been an acoustic record and it'd be just the same. I think it's perfectly produced though, and it's definitely like emotional, which is you can lose emotion quick, go into computery.

Speaker 1:
[34:37] Tim, man, such a good actor too. What was that, 1883?

Speaker 2:
[34:41] 1883, something like that. So good. He's great.

Speaker 1:
[34:45] This is my first Tim McGraw record.

Speaker 2:
[34:51] I love this song. Rather controversial of the time.

Speaker 1:
[34:56] Very controversial song.

Speaker 2:
[35:07] Yeah, this song hits way different at 21 than it does at 11.

Speaker 1:
[35:11] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:11] You know, for sure. You're like, that's a pretty song. They hooked up, they had an abortion. A lot went on in that song and they wrapped it up in a nice pretty little gift. So, holy shit.

Speaker 1:
[35:22] It's one of those classic, it's a classic song structure, right? Who wrote it?

Speaker 2:
[35:26] Curious.

Speaker 1:
[35:27] Jason White.

Speaker 2:
[35:29] One of one?

Speaker 1:
[35:29] Written solely by Nashville based songwriter, musician Jason White. He released and recorded in 2001. Wow. And then Tim did it like the year right after. It's like one of those songs that just one person made and I guess he heard it.

Speaker 2:
[35:45] What a song.

Speaker 1:
[35:46] So it's got this classic structure that you hear a lot in country music where you tell a story and then the variation, and then the variation and comes back around.

Speaker 2:
[35:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:55] And there's like the chorus tweaks.

Speaker 2:
[35:56] Tim had a couple of those specific, Tim did that, Don't Take The Girl. Another tearjerker.

Speaker 1:
[36:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[36:10] And here's where I'm going to draw two comparisons that you'll understand. Country music and rap, both, like, a good story is a good story. The furniture might be different, but how many great rap songs is a storyline? Kendrick's been great about that. Like, he's one of the greatest storytellers. Tupac, great storyteller. Eminem, obviously. And so many more. Jay-Z. Like, even if you want to go, like, all the way to The Run, like, you're getting the whole perspective of the stories and stuff. And that's just to know, that's to songwriters, songwriters.

Speaker 1:
[36:52] One more song.

Speaker 2:
[36:53] One more song.

Speaker 1:
[36:54] Why don't you choose one of these that would be fun to talk about?

Speaker 2:
[36:58] Let's do Into the Night. That song, there was an apple vault situation similar to when me and Lainey Wilson got to find the song rediscovered. But they were doing the Toby Keith tribute, like songwriters released a handful of songs that he recorded demos of but never recorded. I chose that song because it sounds like something I would write or put out anyways, and went in and cut it and tried to do it as much justice as possible. There's only one Toby Keith singing Toby Keith songs. But I related to it as far as the vibe and how it fills, and it fit perfectly on my record with everything else. We cut it with the band that I cut the rest of the record for. Just super fun. Toby is one of my North stars as far as artist goes. Dean Dillon, North star as a songwriter. Toby Keith is definitely up there as North star for an artist just on his career, his support for the troops, his charisma, his sarcasm.

Speaker 1:
[38:13] His sense of humor is out of control.

Speaker 2:
[38:15] Big sense of humor.

Speaker 1:
[38:17] I'm pissed I didn't play that because that was going to be the first song that I was going to play for you, and then for some reason I didn't.

Speaker 2:
[38:26] That snare, just like hitting a fucking trash can.

Speaker 1:
[38:37] He got started late.

Speaker 2:
[38:39] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, several of the people we've talked about today did.

Speaker 1:
[38:44] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[38:45] Willie Nelson didn't have his first artist hit until he was maybe 38 or 41 maybe. I think Haggard was late 30s. Until recent, the super young thing wasn't a thing. Toby was out working and writing, came to town. I think that was the song that changed everything for him. And then it was just all downhill from there.

Speaker 1:
[39:08] If you're out there watching this, it's not too late to get started.

Speaker 2:
[39:12] Just takes one. It just takes one. Also, if you're watching this, get off your ass and go write a song. If you really want to do this, what are you doing scrolling? Get off the pot, go write a song. I mean, I'm all for people watching this, but if you really want to do this shit, what are you doing? You've already heard enough. This is, you got to quit now and go write a song, go be about it.

Speaker 1:
[39:32] But first they got to hear you play something.

Speaker 2:
[39:34] Okay, yeah, sure.

Speaker 3:
[39:39] Let's see here.

Speaker 2:
[39:42] Okay, I'm going to play a song called If I'm Not Careful.

Speaker 3:
[39:51] I'm not careful. You might slip off my mind. Like that ring slipped off your finger, you might slip off my mind.

Speaker 1:
[41:55] Well done. Ladies and gentlemen, Hardy.

Speaker 2:
[41:59] What, did you say Hardy?

Speaker 1:
[42:00] Fuck you.

Speaker 2:
[42:02] Take it easy, Joel McHale.

Speaker 1:
[42:04] That was for Tim.

Speaker 2:
[42:04] That was for Tim.

Speaker 1:
[42:08] When's the album out?

Speaker 2:
[42:09] Album's out May 1st. We just dropped Deep Blue, and that End of the Night song just came out. Probably gonna put out one more song before the album comes out, but yeah, it all is made for and by the water, and if you're not in a boat listening to it, then close your eyes and go there.

Speaker 1:
[42:26] Perfect timing.

Speaker 2:
[42:26] Yeah, man, boat season.

Speaker 1:
[42:28] Thanks for coming.

Speaker 2:
[42:29] Thanks for having me. It's fun. I love the sounds. This one sounds awesome. We could have kept doing that forever. Yeah, thank you. Thank you guys.

Speaker 1:
[42:35] Thanks guys. Track Star Podcast is a presentation of Public Opinion created by me, Jack Coyne, Kieran Coyne, and Henry Cornaros. Produced by Haley Sobel, edited by Haley Sobel. Theme and original composition by Kieran Coyne. Mixing by Devin Klein. Our agent is Joanne Orland at UTA. Thanks for listening. See you next Wednesday.