transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:11] Hey, welcome back, I'm Keith Barrie.

Speaker 2:
[00:12] I'm Steph Schrader.

Speaker 3:
[00:13] And I'm Jake Fisher.

Speaker 1:
[00:15] And we are uniquely equipped today to talk about a very unique car that is in, well, it's sort of right out there, I can see it out the window. We bought a Honda Prelude for our test program, because you said we should.

Speaker 3:
[00:30] We should.

Speaker 2:
[00:31] You're correct.

Speaker 1:
[00:32] And you wrote the first drive. I like kind of weird cars and what seemed like questionable business decisions. And you know all about Honda's performance vehicles and history. So I think we're an interesting group of folks right here to talk about this. So what is this car? It's 200 horsepower, it's a hybrid, it's an automatic, it's a Civic, it's a coupe, it's like $43,000. What is this car?

Speaker 3:
[01:08] It's a good question, you know. It's interesting, so think it through. You can look at the Honda's parts, bins from yesteryear, right? There was lots of different interesting variations that I grew up with, whether or not it's the Honda CRX, which was the two seat version of the Civic, the Prelude, which is kind of like a coupe. I mean, there was a-

Speaker 1:
[01:32] But it was in a court.

Speaker 3:
[01:32] It was, but it was in a court coupe too. Remember, there was a court coupe LXI, which was a hatchback and a two door. And they have all these different versions of these cars. Now we're in this world where everything is an SUV, right? There's different flavors of SUVs, like there used to be different flavors of cars. And what's interesting is that because cars are so much going away, what really has gone away was coupes. I mean, there used to be a lot of coupes.

Speaker 2:
[01:58] I'm so happy to see another coupe.

Speaker 3:
[02:00] Well, this is the thing, right?

Speaker 1:
[02:02] They didn't Mitsubishi it and use the name on the Prelude CROSS.

Speaker 3:
[02:08] Oh, if they do that to the Landsmelt guide. So look, it wasn't too long ago that there was Camry coupes and Ultima coupes and everything. And the Civic, with the 10th generation or the 11th generation of the Civic, was the first time they didn't have a coupe. So they could have come up with a 11th gen Civic coupe.

Speaker 1:
[02:29] Called it a Civic Si coupe.

Speaker 3:
[02:30] Called it a Civic Si coupe. But that would be a car that would probably sell for like $34,000. By kind of giving it different styling and some leather, now they get a car that could sell for about $10,000 more. And that's really what this is, right? I mean, this is a... I mean, look, I was driving the car last night. I've got a Civic Si. It drives very similar. The controls are pretty similar. Sure, it's got some nicer leather interior and stuff like that, but it is a Civic Coupe at a higher price point. It could have been an Integra Coupe. That could have been an option, too.

Speaker 2:
[03:04] That's what everybody wanted when the Integra was released. A lot of people were like, where's the two door?

Speaker 3:
[03:10] Yeah, where's the two door and where's that? So we're in this weird situation. There's this Honda parts bin of this fantastic hybrid powertrain, which they don't put in the Integra. And then they have this fantastic stick shift turbo that they put in the SI, but they do put in the Integra, but not in the Prelude. And you've got this amalgamation of stuff, which is this car. Now, look, I mean, I think one of the disappointments for me, I'll just hit it right up, is something I never really talk about, which is styling. And why it doesn't actually have styling cues of the Preludes that went out, I don't understand. Why it looks just like a Prius, I don't understand.

Speaker 1:
[03:53] So Steph, you've actually, you spent a lot of time with this car, right?

Speaker 3:
[03:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[03:58] Yeah. What have you found?

Speaker 2:
[04:04] I mean, the Prelude has always been kind of a parts bin car, right? Like originally, it took a lot from the Accord. This one takes a lot from the Civic. But the items that they chose for this are just kind of a contradiction. You know, they've got this, you know, more sporty, kind of a stiffer suspension from the Civic Type R. They've got this super efficient drivetrain from the Civic Hybrid. And it just seems like, I know they tried to retune everything for the Prelude, but...

Speaker 1:
[04:37] Exactly, yes.

Speaker 2:
[04:38] Well, I mean, this almost feels like the two-door Integra that everybody wanted, except you've got these contradicting things. And, you know, it's not quite sporty enough powertrain-wise to kind of fit that. It's not quite luxurious enough to justify the price or, you know, the positioning that Honda was kind of aiming for, which was more of a grand tour. And, you know, the original Preludes were never that high-powered, but, you know, they were pretty nice inside. You could get them with a manual. And, like, something that Honda historically did was use the Prelude to debut new tech or new features.

Speaker 3:
[05:18] There was a four-wheel-steer version.

Speaker 2:
[05:19] Four-wheel-steer, analog brakes, moon roofs. You can't get a moon roof or a sun roof or any kind of hole in the roof on this. And a lot of the people were like, but this is the model that debuted that for Honda. And so this one, their special thing was the S Plus Shift system. Yeah. Yeah. Which, it simulates gears, but when you're going after the enthusiast market, enthusiasts want something real. They want, this is the market that's always like, does it come in a manual? Does it come in a manual? Does it come in a manual? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[05:57] And they also, things like fake engine noises.

Speaker 2:
[06:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[06:01] They reject that. Yeah. They want something that's real, and it's not.

Speaker 2:
[06:05] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:05] But all that aside, though, I gotta say, because I came to this car, like I read what you wrote, which I normally don't do. I normally try and go, no, no, no, no, no, no. I normally don't read what anyone.

Speaker 3:
[06:16] Is it just her?

Speaker 1:
[06:18] I mean, I don't read anything that any, I know. I know. I don't read anything that anyone's written before.

Speaker 2:
[06:23] Yeah. You don't want to color your...

Speaker 1:
[06:26] That's what it is. When a car shows up, I kind of go into it and think, okay, and the first thing was, how do I get into this thing? And because I hadn't read anything, I wanted to figure out it has those stupid door handles. So I was automatically, I was kind of, and then I tried to back it out of a parking space, and the whole three quarter view is like the minuscule back seat. And I think I even took some video of it. There's my rear three quarter view. I'm gonna put it into reverse. And yeah, there's a little window there. If I crane my neck around, but it doesn't really tell me much. And there we go. And thank goodness it has the rear cross traffic warning, because if you're parked next to an SUV, you're not gonna see anything when you're pulling out of a parking space. But then I drove it, and I got on some of the twisty roads around here, and I got around the track and stuff, and I was like, I don't know why, but this thing kind of makes sense. Something about it, I like it.

Speaker 3:
[07:24] You like weird cars.

Speaker 1:
[07:25] Well, then I had to wonder if it was just me kind of overcompensating because I love the strangeness. Because it's so cool that this huge conservative company decided to sell this thing, and what, they're bringing like 4,000 of them to the US?

Speaker 2:
[07:39] Yeah, I mean, it's a super limited release. I liked it too. When I was actually filming the video for it, I was just, you know, left it, didn't try to play with the fake shifters, didn't try to do anything, just left it in D and just hooned around. And I'm just like, this thing would be a great, you know, beginner's track day car. Go learn how, learn more about handling, learn more. And it's just, you know, leave it in D, have fun. It handles like a dream.

Speaker 3:
[08:08] Yeah, I think this is a car that you can like if you ignore the other products that Honda makes. You have to divorce that out of your head. You have to imagine that there is no civic hybrid touring for $10,000 less that pretty much gives you the same enjoyment and more space and an actual backseat and saves you money. You have to ignore the fact there's a Civic SI for $10,000 less that gives you an actual sporty driving experience, the same handling and all those things. You have to ignore those things. Put those out of your memory. You have to forget that there's an integral.

Speaker 2:
[08:39] You're almost in Type R territory. You could get the Type R drivetrain. You could get the manual, and if you want a back seat. I mean, I get it for people who want a coupe, but then this isn't the intended vehicle.

Speaker 3:
[08:53] So then if it's coupe, then it's all about how it looks. And it looks like a Prius. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:
[08:59] It looks too short. That's the Civic baseline. The front end of it.

Speaker 2:
[09:04] It was very Prius up front.

Speaker 3:
[09:06] It's very Prius up front.

Speaker 1:
[09:08] Remember the pop-up headlights or the little, the kind of...

Speaker 3:
[09:11] It's ironic, because if you look at the last-generation Prelude, even when they got rid of the headlights, it looks more like a Civic, you know? It's kind of got that longer hood. It doesn't have that slope. And yeah, if it's styling you're at, don't look like a Prius.

Speaker 1:
[09:26] But I want to go back to this, what you were talking about is kind of the first, because I'm thinking about other cars, not just Honda, of who else is going to shop this. So, you know, there's the Toyobaru. There is the Prius, honestly. The Prius is actually a pretty fun car to drive these days.

Speaker 3:
[09:40] Let's do a few numbers here, right? Prius, you could get for, I mean, even with leather, you're talking like $10,000 less. You're talking more fuel efficiency, faster, more room. It's got like a numbers, I mean, it's not the driving enjoyment, absolutely, but then of course, there are civics, you know?

Speaker 1:
[09:57] But I want to talk with you about this, compared to the Z.

Speaker 2:
[10:00] Yeah, the Z starts around the same price, and you get twice the horsepower, it's 400 horsepower.

Speaker 1:
[10:06] Yeah, but the Z has that, the Z to me, you're fighting with it when you're driving it, it's got that heavy clutch. This is like a car that I think, if I were maybe, maybe if I'd had knee surgery, maybe if I didn't want to.

Speaker 2:
[10:19] You can still enjoy it.

Speaker 1:
[10:20] Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3:
[10:21] This is a very different animal than the Z, right? I mean, Z is, again, the Z is harsh, right? The Z is noisy, it's firm, all those kinds of things. This is a very pleasant driving experience. I mean, it's pretty quiet, it's smooth powertrain, the engine's not screaming. It's more coddling than the Z's rough. I mean, again, it's a different animal, I think, than a sports car.

Speaker 2:
[10:45] Well, so here's my problem with the Prelude as it sits, is it's not really focused enough. So if you are winning a sporty driving experience, you're going to look at things like the Mustang or the Toyobaru or the Z or this or that. If you want something that's more efficient, you are going to look at the Prius, you are going to look at the other Civics, maybe even the Integra, which is in the mid-30s. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[11:10] I think you're exactly right. It's just kind of like, I mean, it reminds me a little bit, remember the CRZ?

Speaker 2:
[11:17] Of course.

Speaker 3:
[11:17] So CRZ came back and it wasn't really a sporty car, it was kind of like, it was a hybrid, but it wasn't that efficient. With a stick shift.

Speaker 2:
[11:25] That was cool.

Speaker 3:
[11:26] It was less efficient than a Prius, even though it's only two seats. It didn't quite make any sense, but maybe this is the beauty of this car. It's that, to your point of liking something different, it is something different. There are lots of other cars.

Speaker 2:
[11:39] $42,000. I don't think there's still a whole lot of them.

Speaker 1:
[11:42] No, yeah. Here's what I think. You know, the last time I flew, you know, if you've been in like an international flight lately, like three quarters of the plane is first class seats now. And if you go to, you know, somewhere, you know, somewhere with a lot of shops, you're looking around and I'm thinking, who the heck could afford this stuff? But there's like more than 6 billion people in the world. There's more than 4,000 people with the money and the interest in this. And I just think it's, I just think it's cool. I mean, it's...

Speaker 2:
[12:12] I always wait for them to upgrade me.

Speaker 1:
[12:13] Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because they will...

Speaker 2:
[12:16] So you might want to wait till this goes on the used market.

Speaker 1:
[12:19] Exactly. This is going to be another one of those cars that enthusiasts like us are like, man, if this shows up at a CarMax for 20 grand in five years.

Speaker 2:
[12:29] In 10 years, people are, it's going to be like the CRZ. People are going to ask, oh man, why didn't more people buy this? And all of us old parts will be like, it was $42,000.

Speaker 1:
[12:41] It will be perfect for us because we won't, the stick shift will be tired of it. But I don't know, they let the team, no, I know, I know. They let the team, no, my tendonitis will be, that's the problem. But no, they let the team that design the element out of the containment facility, they've had them in for 15 years. They were like, all right, we're going to give you one more chance. Don't insult the elements. No, I'm not, I'm saying it's awesome.

Speaker 2:
[13:04] I actually kind of like the styling. There were, the nose, I think, should be a little less Prius, but I think I like it because a couple of us got catfished with the script on the back, mistaking it for a Porsche, because Porsche has the same script that they have Carrera, Cayenne, this, but it's got the roofline, it's not very prelude, it doesn't give off prelude vibes, but in a bubble, I think it looks kind of cool.

Speaker 1:
[13:36] And in a bubble economy, it would have been a cooler car. But Honda is not in that world anymore. I don't know, I think it's, am I gonna take it for the weekend?

Speaker 2:
[13:47] Yes, I will fight you.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] Yeah, probably, yeah. No, it's probably gonna get signed out a decent amount, but I also think that folks who have, if you need to put a car seat in the back, if you need to put people in the back, if you need to put, you know, it is not, and driving around in a smaller car, around here, it's great, because there aren't other cars in the road. And then the second you park, you know, you're driving and you're getting passed by an F250, and you're looking up at the chassis, you're thinking, maybe this car is a little small for the, and I hate to say that, because I love small, nimble cars.

Speaker 2:
[14:23] Yeah, I'm a small car person, so this is like firmly in my wheelhouse, and I'm still going like, Drive defensively. Yeah. Well, not size-wise, just kind of cost-wise, and just.

Speaker 3:
[14:37] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[14:38] I'm just like, ugh.

Speaker 1:
[14:39] We should do a cost per, we should have a need to run a cost per pound of car analysis.

Speaker 2:
[14:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[14:44] Or inch, you know.

Speaker 1:
[14:45] Yeah, and see like how much this is, how, where this fits.

Speaker 3:
[14:50] Honestly, I think how a lot of consumers think about things, like I'm going to be 43. I want something bigger. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2:
[14:56] I want something more luxurious. But the problem I had was they're kind of positioning it as a grand tourer, but I don't get that vibe at all. You know, my cage 944 has a smoother ride. And it's less road noise. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, no, it doesn't have any windows. But windows help. It doesn't really have that like smooth. It's got a smooth drivetrain, but you know, not really an exciting one. And just the things that are missing just kind of grind on you for the price point. Like the back seat is black cloth. It doesn't match the pretty two tone on our two tone model. There's no heated steering wheel.

Speaker 1:
[15:38] No, I would say, though, the good news is because Jake decided that we were going to buy one is that we get to drive it in this vacuum and not think about that price once we're done reviewing it. And we can just sort of enjoy it because it's... But if you're out there naturally purchasing it, I imagine this might be a third car for a lot of people who buy it. Not for a lot of people, but for the people who buy it, it might be like, oh, yeah, I grabbed one of that. I got one of these. I've always liked that. I've always wanted a, you know.

Speaker 3:
[16:07] I think the third car, like a Miata would be a better third car. I agree with that, but... Which is cheaper also.

Speaker 2:
[16:14] I could live with it as an only car, but, you know, it's single person, not a lot of stuff. It does have an amazing amount of cargo space, and it's actually pretty roomy up front. Like, if you have to carry anyone or anything in the backseat, no. But like, you know, for me, I would just get the cargo cover, $150 extra, it is not included. I would get the cargo cover so my stuff's a little more private, and, you know, have a ball.

Speaker 3:
[16:42] It has all those things.

Speaker 1:
[16:43] The return of the personal luxury coupe.

Speaker 3:
[16:45] Yes! But it's a great advertisement for a civic, hybrid Hatchback touring. Great advertisement for that car.

Speaker 1:
[16:54] And I'm sure that folks who know the import, export, tariff, you know, whatever you need to do in order to get a car approved for sale in the United States understand why. This reminds me of sometimes, like, if you look at it, you know, if you're looking for a new vacuum and you look at, like, a Miele vacuum, in Europe, they're, like, 100 bucks. And here, they're, like, 450, because everything has to be changed for the... I imagine that this car is a very different value proposition if it doesn't have to be imported into a market with totally different regulations than...

Speaker 3:
[17:30] No, you're right. And this is the problem with any kind of small-volume vehicle, that you're absolutely right. It's got to get crash-tested, it's got to get certified, all these things. And I guess, you know, I mean, I think we could almost say thank you for Honda for going through that, to give someone the choice if that they want this car. I mean, you look at like Volkswagen. The Scirocco. Oh, yeah, we could have a Scirocco.

Speaker 1:
[17:50] Remember?

Speaker 3:
[17:51] But you know, we don't have a GTI stick shift, because it's too much of a pain to have a stick shift and a GTI, even with certified 4G.

Speaker 2:
[17:59] We don't have a prelude stick shift.

Speaker 3:
[18:01] Well, we don't have that, too.

Speaker 2:
[18:02] True.

Speaker 1:
[18:05] But all those cars that we wish that, you know, finally a company did it and we're like, eh.

Speaker 2:
[18:11] Well, I mean, they did it, but they missed the mark for, you know.

Speaker 1:
[18:15] There's a reason that, yeah, it's such an interesting vehicle. I'm very curious when we're going to start seeing them used. Who's going to start? Who's going to buy them? I mean, I don't really think New England is the target market for them, but I could see.

Speaker 2:
[18:31] Front wheel drive is decent. You get snow tires. I mean, again, firmly committed to the personal luxury, you know, sport compact coupe thing.

Speaker 3:
[18:43] Not a whole lot.

Speaker 2:
[18:44] There's, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[18:45] It's personal. Yeah, there you go. Kind of luxury. It's kind of sport.

Speaker 2:
[18:50] It's not really luxury.

Speaker 1:
[18:51] Definitely a coupe. So it's a personal coupe.

Speaker 2:
[18:54] It is a personal coupe.

Speaker 3:
[18:55] I agree with that.

Speaker 1:
[18:56] All right. So if you disagree with us, leave a comment, yell at us, send something.

Speaker 2:
[19:01] Tell me I'm wrong.

Speaker 1:
[19:02] Yeah, tell us all we're wrong. I mean, the whole reason we bought this car is just... Read her first before you tell her she's wrong.

Speaker 3:
[19:09] Don't do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:10] But yeah, there's a great first drive on cr.org. Lot of photos, lot of video of it. So to learn more what we have to say, I'm glad we bought this car. So I'm glad...

Speaker 3:
[19:22] Well, you bought.

Speaker 1:
[19:23] Someone bought this car. Someone anonymously purchased it at a local Honda dealer. And I guarantee they thought it was us because I don't think anyone else was first in line. Like, I need that car.

Speaker 2:
[19:35] I think we did have to search a little bit.

Speaker 3:
[19:37] Yeah. I think Joey got it.

Speaker 1:
[19:40] Awesome. So send your complaints, whatever, to talkingcarsaticloud.com. Also send your questions. Because if you send a question and we use it on the show, we're going to send you swag. And I don't know if it's swag that will fit in the Prelude. But I went the whole way without saying Prelude. And I switched to it. I'm sorry I couldn't. Anyhow, our first question is from Jim. And even though Jim has a little bit of a criticism for us, can we still give him swag? We can still give him swag. Okay, good, Jim. You're getting swag, even though you have some criticism for us. So Jim asks, what is with Consumer Reports focus on long range EV tests? My understanding is that on average, we drive about 40 miles a day. So should testing not focus with this reality in mind? I have friends who go out and pay $50,000 plus for an EV with 300 miles of range and then drive it to work or for groceries, not on the highway for long distances each day. It's a bit like the crazy focus on ever lower zero to 60 times or the excitement of a car with 500 horsepower. 100 to 150 miles of range is more than enough for 95% of driving, so why focus on the 5% of use cases? Jim, I'm with you on the horsepower, the zero to 60. Also, I think we found the IMEEV driver.

Speaker 2:
[20:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:59] We found the Mercedes.

Speaker 2:
[21:00] Fellow Mitsubishi owner.

Speaker 1:
[21:02] We found the Mercedes B250E driver. We found the...

Speaker 2:
[21:07] I mean, I know people who buy a pickup, and all they do is pick up their kids from school.

Speaker 1:
[21:13] Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[21:14] Not anything that needs the towing capacity. Not anything that... Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:18] It's in the name.

Speaker 3:
[21:19] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:19] Yeah, if you give someone a lift, you need a lift.

Speaker 3:
[21:21] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[21:22] It's in the name.

Speaker 2:
[21:22] Or jeeps that stay clean. Please use your jeep. They're so much fun for that.

Speaker 1:
[21:26] And they were driving. This is an actually... This is a great question, because you're right. Jim is right, in a way, but also Jim is wrong. And we're gonna explain why Jim's wrong.

Speaker 3:
[21:38] Jim is right and wrong at the same time. The superstitionist theory that we have.

Speaker 1:
[21:43] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[21:43] So, I mean, first of all, like...

Speaker 1:
[21:46] Jake, you helped design... You and Alex helped design our...

Speaker 3:
[21:50] Let's go back to your point. Like, people buy things that they don't need. Okay, let's just put that there. Right?

Speaker 1:
[21:56] Like the Honda Prelude.

Speaker 3:
[21:58] Someone who needs a coupe.

Speaker 2:
[21:59] You want what you want.

Speaker 3:
[22:01] But it's true. I mean, you get a pickup truck that could tow 10,000 pounds. Most of the time, you're not chowing 10,000 pounds. You got something that could go off-road. You've got all-wheel drive. You don't necessarily use it all the time. The rear seat in your car, you probably aren't using. A lot of people only use 5% of the time, if that. You buy things that you might need as opposed to things that you need every day. So let's separate those two things. Now, one, I completely, as you said, I completely agree this whole race to zero to 60 times is nuts. And I think where, I mean, really, like, zero to 60 in three seconds versus four seconds, like, gonna make that much of a difference to the average consumer? Not so much. But I think this really were, you know, back in the name, like you said, and in the name Consumer Reports, we're here to kind of represent what consumers are looking for. So one is consumers don't really, aren't looking for that four seconds versus five seconds. We made changes to actually change the way we're scoring vehicles for acceleration times, that you're not getting extra points for this family sedan or SUV that goes four seconds, zero to sixty instead of five.

Speaker 2:
[23:05] It's got to get out of its own way, but if it doesn't, then sure.

Speaker 1:
[23:10] All those videos of Takens, like shooting off into the stratosphere because people don't know how fast they are.

Speaker 3:
[23:18] Not everyone's drag racing these days. Let's put it there. So that's for sure. But in terms of the idea of like a 300-mile EV, and again, he is completely right. Most people only drive probably about 40 miles a day. Totally right. This really comes down to our surveys, asking people what they look for in EV. And even specifically, we ask questions like, what's holding you back from getting an EV? Why aren't you getting an EV? And this is the number one thing, is that for a while, the EV market was filled with these, a lot of people call them compliance cars, right? There's EVs, they got 80 miles, 100 miles.

Speaker 2:
[23:51] Or commuter cars, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[23:52] Nobody was buying these, even though they were heavily subsidized, and they were actually quite, like, there wasn't a lot of interest in that.

Speaker 1:
[23:59] Like $99 a month, some of them.

Speaker 3:
[24:01] That's right.

Speaker 2:
[24:02] Crazy.

Speaker 3:
[24:02] When there was longer ranges, people, again, they said, it's holding me back that short range. I want to get something that's longer range. And when they started producing the longer range vehicles, they sold more. So it's really what people want. Now, do they need it? Well, honestly, here's the thing about range, is that, yeah, okay, fine. My commute is, you know, 20 miles each way, and 40 miles a day or 50 miles a day.

Speaker 2:
[24:27] You don't want to rent a separate car to get to grandma's.

Speaker 3:
[24:29] You don't want to rent a separate car to grandma's. And you also, what happens when grandma gets sick?

Speaker 1:
[24:34] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[24:34] And suddenly, I got to get out there, or my kids get sick, or I got to go pick up my kid and take him to the doctor's.

Speaker 1:
[24:41] Or your flight gets canceled, you've made it to the airport and back, but you have to go back the next day, which may have happened to me in a car which shall remain nameless, but that I had to stop in the way. Or you with your plugged in, plugging in the Fiat with an extension cord.

Speaker 2:
[24:57] Well, because it got colder than you thought. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[25:00] Right?

Speaker 3:
[25:00] Or you get stuck in traffic and it was a cold day. So people buy, they want what they might need as opposed to what they need every day. And it's not without merit, because you never know what's going to happen. And if we're buying vehicles that just in case I need to go off road on the way to work, or I need to forge a stream or something, we've got that. Well, what happens if grandma gets sick?

Speaker 2:
[25:23] Well, yeah, you don't buy a forerunner for your commute. You buy it that one week in a big bin that you're going to have a fantastic time and make all these great memories. And same goes with EVs. You do buy it for your commute, but you also want to be able to get places.

Speaker 1:
[25:42] And I like the fact that we test it, and I know you said that, I know Alex has said this, and folks have said this, that the real reason why we test range the way we do, it's different from the way the EPA tests range, because the EPA, as far as I understand it, when they test range, it's more about this mix of city and highway driving. And nobody, Jim is right, nobody drives an EV for its full range, like city and highway driving, and doesn't plug it in. The cool thing about an EV is that you never have to, if you're just commuting with it, you just plug it in. But we're testing it specifically for road trips, because EVs behave differently when they are driven long distances at speed.

Speaker 3:
[26:26] And this is what's interesting about it too, is that for many years, we all are used to city and highway mileage. And what we all know from internal combustion engine cars is cars get better fuel efficiency on the highway.

Speaker 1:
[26:39] They get better fuel efficiency on the highway.

Speaker 3:
[26:42] They get better fuel efficiency on the highway. That's right. So on the highway, you might get your 40 miles per gallon, but in the city, you're only getting 30. It's the opposite when we find with EVs. Around town, they actually do better. They actually, that steady, long, high-speed stuff, they don't do very well.

Speaker 2:
[26:58] You're not getting the benefit of regenerative braking and, you know, slowing down unless you have nightmare traffic on the way, which in that case, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3:
[27:05] You hope for that to give longer range.

Speaker 1:
[27:07] That's not highway. Yeah. Technically, it's highway. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:12] Yeah. So that's, I think that's the reason why we do it, is because if a company is saying, this car has a 400 mile range and you think, OK, grandma's house is 380 miles away. Great. I'll buy this car. And then as you're halfway there, it says that your range is, you know, smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. That's what we're trying to do is protect people against those. We're not saying you should go out and buy the longest, you know, longest range.

Speaker 3:
[27:37] But and then again, there's that, you know, what happens when you got to go to grandma's house or, and it's a real cold day. And we've seen with certain situations, you could almost cut your range in half if it's really cold weather. So you have that margin.

Speaker 2:
[27:53] And you want that extra pad because, you know, my mom lives in East Texas. There was one time where she's in the hospital, drop everything, drive five hours. Infrastructure is not built out in a lot of places still. And people really worry about that. And so to have that extra padding of like cold weather, remote locations and be able to charge. And something I've noticed on a lot of the EVs that have a, you know, kind of, especially like the Google built-in ones, the route planning is fantastic. It will say, well, here's the high speed charger on your route, go here. And it's nice to have that option when, you know, stuff happens.

Speaker 1:
[28:36] Which we also factor into our range testing is whether it has that ease of charging, that sort of thing as well. So yeah, Jim, I totally, we agree with you. And also, here's why we do it this way.

Speaker 2:
[28:51] So a lot of people don't have a second car, you know, so.

Speaker 3:
[28:56] Or a third car, or a fourth car. And a Prelude and a Miata.

Speaker 2:
[29:01] What if I got a fifth car?

Speaker 1:
[29:02] I don't, I think we need to have an intervention. Yeah, fifth car is, yeah. So yeah, great, no, no. But as long as it's not a Prelude. But yeah, so we've got a bunch of answers to questions like that at cr.org. We've got our range tests. We have our secret sauce from our statisticians who aren't just figuring out how to score the cars, but they're also asking individual buyers what they're looking for. So I think it's a really interesting question to kind of peek behind the curtain. If you have a question...

Speaker 2:
[29:37] Well, and if there's a question that we're not addressing, because we do have survey data saying people ask this, this is what's holding back a lot of people from an EV. If there's something we're not addressing, please tell us. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[29:51] Fill out our surveys. Exactly. Because we're not here to tell you what to buy. We're here to help you find what to buy. Thanks for your questions. You can send yours to talkingcarsaticloud.com. You get swag, and we get to talk about what we do all day. And also, speaking of the work we do, I don't know if you know this, but we're a non-profit. So there's a reason, when you look at Consumer Reports Magazine, you don't see advertising. We do things very differently. We don't go on press junkets. That's why we had to buy the Prelude, but that costs money. So we've got a donate button. If you're watching us on YouTube, help us out. Help us keep these surveys. Help us do the stuff that nobody else is doing, because nobody else can do it. And those donations are how we can do this work objectively without any of that outside influence. So it's a real special place. Thank you for Talking Cars with us. We'll talk again soon.