transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] You hear us talk about whisky clubs all the time on the show, but there's a common theme. Most of them are about keeping people out. There's insane membership costs. There's no choice in what bottles you actually receive. So here at Pursuit Spirits, we're changing that game. That's why we introduced P Club. It's our way of bringing our distillery straight to you. We've scrapped the whole mystery box model. So as a member, you get total control with a customizable cart. You can choose anything from our everyday offerings that may or may not be available on retail shelves around you. Or we have once a quarter, brand new exclusive distillery gift shop only releases that will never hit store shelves. And that includes everything from our Melwood Legacy collection. Plus, you'll get 10% off all merch, invites to VIP virtual tastings with Ryan and myself, and $15 off distillery experiences here at our home at Whiskey Row in downtown Louisville. It's not about being exclusive. It's about finally having the access you deserve. Join our inner circle today at pursuitspirits.com/pclub, or just go to pursuitspirits.com and hit that pclub link to come and join us. We all know that bourbon is better when it's shared, and that's why I always reach for Sippin Bourbon. It's an app where whiskey lovers discover new bottles, share reviews, and stay plugged into the bourbon world. So whether you're just getting started or you're like me and you're just so deep in this hobby, well, it's built for people who care about what's in the glass. Download the Sippin Bourbon app today or visit at sipinbourbon.com. That's S-I-P-N bourbon.com or download it right from the app store. I get to talk about whiskey festivals all the time on the show, and I have seen this one firsthand and I know the type of crowd and the enthusiasm that's there. If you're a fan of craft whiskey, you need to be going to Bruisel Fest, and it's back for its third year, and it's shaping up to be the number one craft whiskey festival. So mark your calendars for August 29th, 2026, where you'll get pours from smaller brands from all across the country. You can sit on educational panels and meet the faces behind some of your favorite bottles. Ticket sales will kick off on April 27th with early access for those Bruisel Club members, and Early Bird General Mission starts at only just $80. They have VIP tickets at $210, but those discounted prices will only last until the end of May. So whether you're a seasoned collector or just now getting into craft whiskey, this is the festival you can't miss. Go to bruisel.com/festival2026 to learn more about tickets.

Speaker 2:
[02:33] Whiskey Wednesdays, round 19 is here, and the Bourbon Buddy bonus means more bourbon and more winners. For just five bucks, you can win a great bottle for you and a friend, while supporting a different nonprofit each week. And every ticket from the full 12-week round goes back in for the big June 24th grand prize, a six-bottle Buffalo Trace collection for you and your Bourbon Buddy. Get your tickets now at give270.org. Charitable Gaming License, ORG0002703.

Speaker 1:
[03:02] Hey, everyone, it's Kenny here, and I know you're just like me. We all love a good, poor bourbon to wind down at the end of the day, especially right before we go to bed. But right now, those Kentucky nights are starting to get humid. And that nightcap actually ends up spiking your core temperature and can ruin your deep sleep. And that's why I actually got myself an 8 Sleep Pod 5. It's a smart cover that goes right on your existing mattress, and it can cool down to a crisp 55 degrees. So no more hot feet at the end of the night for me. It has an autopilot AI. It can actually sense my body signal and knows how to adjust the temperature automatically, helping me get actually more sleep at the end of the night as well too. It's really the difference between waking up foggy and actually feeling rested. And for me, it's been a game changer. So you can use my code. It's Bourbon Pursuit. So go to 8sleep.com/bourbonpursuit, and you can get up to $350 off your own Pod 5. You can also get it 30 days to try it at home. And I'm confident that you're going to love it. Go to 8sleep, that is E-I-G-H-T, sleep.com/bourbonpursuit.

Speaker 3:
[04:07] Now at McDonald's, wake up to a $4 breakfast meal deal. Wake up to a Sausage McMuffin or a Sausage Biscuit, to hash browns, and wake up to a hot coffee. Get your $4 breakfast meal deal.

Speaker 4:
[04:20] Limit time only.

Speaker 1:
[04:20] Prices may vary.

Speaker 4:
[04:21] Prices may be higher for delivery. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Behind the Pursuit, from Bourbon to Brand. However you found us, we're so glad you're here on the Bourbon Pursuit Network.

Speaker 5:
[04:46] That's right, sponsored by Alani.

Speaker 4:
[04:48] I'm your host, Brian Bikie, and joining me are the guys, Ryan and Kenny. Gents, how are we doing?

Speaker 5:
[04:53] Feels good to be back. Feels good, it's been a while. Long time, too long.

Speaker 4:
[04:58] It's been a really fast year. There's been a lot of things happening for me, for you guys. A lot of traveling, a lot of market visits. We talked about that already on one of the previous podcasts about all that stuff that was coming up with you and Sarah. Well, both of you and Sarah.

Speaker 1:
[05:14] I'm excited that we're getting Sarah up to speed and now she can start handling a lot of that stuff out. I mean, it's one of the things that we've always talked about of making sure that Ryan and I are not the bottleneck in this company and how can we build people to be more extensions of us. And obviously that led to the ambassador program of having them be an extension of us and being able to preach the gospel and now we've got Sarah that can go out and do the same exact thing and she loves it. That's great.

Speaker 5:
[05:41] Yeah, she's doing great.

Speaker 4:
[05:43] I talked to her the other day and she was like, I'm home like six days a month or something like that.

Speaker 6:
[05:49] Get out there, profits time.

Speaker 5:
[05:51] That's too many days.

Speaker 4:
[05:54] You get three more days to get out there. That's exciting. Things are turning up. I mean, it's like I reflect back just as we go through the year. I feel like last year, I thought that Q1 felt slow, momentum built. I don't feel like there was a slowdown for 2025 going into 2026 this year. I feel as if you all might feel the same because it looks the same. The pedal is down and no release.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] I mean, a lot of that I think is attributed to our West Coast expansion and being able to go out there having Pacific Edge be on our side and really go at the bat for us and putting us in a lot of new markets, a lot of new placements, and every day they're giving us updates of new accounts. Heck, when we were out there, we sold 11 single barrels in the span of three days between us. Scratching the surface is not even a great metaphor. I don't even know what a, like something that you could say is like we were a speck of sand.

Speaker 5:
[06:51] We picked a small scab on our body.

Speaker 1:
[06:54] Exactly. And there's just, there's so much more to go. And now we're really looking forward to building upon that momentum. And right now, at least from what we had finished in Q1 were on track to be up 100% over last year.

Speaker 4:
[07:08] Well, you were recently in, well, not you, you just vacation all the time. You were recently in Seattle though. What was that about?

Speaker 1:
[07:16] Another market visit sort of launch out there. I got to admit though, very difficult market. This is one of those things that going out to Washington and you start learning about their taxes and the burden that comes upon them. People go out of their way to not shop in the state of Washington. So Sealbox is the perfect customer for a lot of people out there. And it's very difficult knowing that our target demographic, especially the people that listen to this particular show, they know about us, they know about our products, and they know about Sealbox. And so they can get it delivered from Sealbox cheaper than they can go get it from the store locally.

Speaker 4:
[07:55] Interesting.

Speaker 5:
[07:56] Yeah. That's why when we were in California, everybody had all these big online shipping fulfillment centers and obviously Sealbox, and a lot of it's due to Washington with such high taxes. As Kenny mentioned, you would think the state of Washington would be like, all right, well, I could sell more. All these other states are capturing customers, mindshare, revenue, taxes, but we're going to keep our taxes high to make our products unaffordable. And they give them out. It's surprising that they allow shipping into Washington. But yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 4:
[08:31] And this just shows my ignorance a little bit. Is this taxes on all things? Is this only like on alcohol?

Speaker 5:
[08:37] Liquor tax, there's what? Like a 19% tax.

Speaker 1:
[08:40] Oh my gosh. Put it this way, if you buy a $70 bottle, you're over $100 out the door, right? I mean, it's expensive. And this was all part of the privatization when they went from state run to the privatized side of things. From what everybody told me, as much as I love Costco, they said Costco is the biggest reason why all this exists, because Costco kind of corners the market in alcohol around there because of their warehouses, and that's their home state, and it is the home state. So unfortunate to see what it is, but every single time I was out there, everybody's like, yeah, there's nothing we can do about it. I was like, I'm pretty sure the government works for you. So if you got together your liquor stores, your distributors, your consumers, everybody got together and fought against this and found a Senate leader or somebody that can help push us along. I would think that you could make some momentum or drive to be able to say, well, listen, if we had more revenue dollars coming into the state because we lowered the taxes, that means we're going to end up making more taxes in the long run.

Speaker 5:
[09:43] So it sounds very Republican.

Speaker 1:
[09:45] It sounds, well, it just sounds very rational.

Speaker 5:
[09:47] So I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[09:48] But I'm a little surprised that the home state of the glizzy wouldn't have cornered that rare character bottle before DC did. Oh, that's true.

Speaker 1:
[09:58] They could have just actually I didn't really see any much rare character out there. It was actually it's kind of funny.

Speaker 5:
[10:02] You talk about $1,000 in Washington. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:06] Oh yeah. You wouldn't be able to sell shit. I mean, going out there, I probably saw four barrel picks the entire time I was out there.

Speaker 5:
[10:13] Right?

Speaker 1:
[10:14] Not a whole lot. And it was from I saw a Knob Creek, I saw Penelope, a Heaven Hill, whatever the blue and white label is. I said bottle of Bond. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 4:
[10:24] But they have a popular like bar scene there, right? I mean, it's been a long time since I was in Seattle, but that's what I did is I just kind of hopped around and went to bars breweries and stuff like that too.

Speaker 1:
[10:33] I'd say 75 percent of my visits were all on-premise to try and hit that, because they do have a lower liquor tax rate for being on-premise, but still cocktails, I think the cheapest I saw was $17.

Speaker 4:
[10:46] Interesting. Do they have any good old fashions out there?

Speaker 5:
[10:49] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[10:49] I didn't have one.

Speaker 5:
[10:51] No Manhattans?

Speaker 1:
[10:53] No. I had a riff on a Manhattan, so shout out to Sarah from Lady J. Great place to get Wagyu steak burgers, and she made a riff on a Manhattan for me.

Speaker 5:
[11:03] Nice. Wagyu steak burger sounds good.

Speaker 4:
[11:05] Sounds delicious right about now.

Speaker 5:
[11:06] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[11:07] Well, I wanted to reflect a little bit on, we haven't done an episode since the chattering and then the release of Sakura. So I thought it would be interesting to, for those who didn't get a chance to catch up because that went P-Club exclusive, and then local here didn't last super long. Lasted about the duration of a month, if you want to consider from P-Club to selling out here. So it wasn't a very wide reached product, but it also starts what seems like a different direction of innovation for you guys. So I want to pull back, just talk about that product, and then maybe lead that into what we might see throughout the rest of the year, some upcoming stuff, or just what other rabbits you guys got in your hat.

Speaker 5:
[11:57] Yeah, I think Sakura really started about almost 18 months to 24 months ago. With our Double Oak Bourbon program, especially the private selection and through the whole process of developing our Double Oaks, we're very transparent about our stave finishing process. We explored and researched a ton of different stave options, mostly from independent stave and Seguin Monroe inner stave. But I was constantly looking for more and more options as far as stave finish profiles. And so we got introduced to a company called Barrel Mill. And I think Barrel Mill really gained some traction because they were one of the first to come out with the Ambarana stave. And I know it's obviously not a flavor profile that I am accustomed to. But they did the Ambarana inserts because Ambarana barrels are very like pungent. They're, you know, especially first use ones with the staves. You could kind of get a little lighter influence. You can set them in there for a day or two. They just made it more maneuverable for producers to experiment with. But they had a whole line of different products that I got with them. It's like, I was like, hey, send me, you know, anything and everything you got. And I was like, I don't care how exotic it is. And we got, yeah, I was looking through the trials the other day, and it was like, there's European chestnut, German apple tree. There's, there was maple, sugar maple. There was pecan wood.

Speaker 1:
[13:35] Something we need to go back and test these again.

Speaker 5:
[13:37] I know, mulberry and then a bunch of different American oaks and French oaks. But then there was this one called secura. And you know, we did a trial run with it. Oh, also to that was the Mizunara that we ended up using for our Kodama Mizunara Mizunara release. But the secura one, it was interesting. Like I think in the first initial trials, I think we maybe let it go a little too long. And we tried it and it was like, this is kind of interesting, but kind of funky and whatnot. I don't know if you remember going through this, maybe a little bitter, maybe a little bitter tannic, but then did some other shorter trial of it. And I was like, oh my God, this is like really good. And then I did a one barrel experiment of it. I mean, I think you were able to try that one that we put out in the Redneck Rick house. And I was like, wow, okay. We have one barrel of it, it's really good. Let's take this out to four, make five total barrels of it. So we did four more barrels of it. One thing that we did different, usually what I'll do is I'll create a blend and then blend the whiskeys together, then insert them back into the barrel and then put the stave. This time we did some different where we just took the individual barrels, we didn't blend them together. So we had Tennessee, Kentucky, New York. We just insert the Sakura into the barrels as individual components, let them age and then blended them back together. The first outcome of it wasn't the flavor profiles looking for. So after we had blended them together, I was like, it's just not like because I tasted them individually and I was like, these are incredible. When I blend them together, they got to be great. Blend them together.

Speaker 1:
[15:29] It's not so curry enough.

Speaker 5:
[15:31] It lost that creaminess, that cherry, that bright floral. It was more like hot cinnamon candy. So I was like, well, now that they're blended together, if I take the staves out, the barrels put them into the tote. So we did that for about four to five more weeks and bam, it was incredible. This one was a fun, a lot of trial and error on this one. But I was blown away by the response. And I knew kind of the name, it's a cool name, Sakura and cherry blossom, people love cherries. But the timing of the release, we kind of knew that we wanted to do this around the spring bloom of the cherry trees. And I think it all just kind of, looking back, I think it all just kind of lined up. The packaging was absolutely stellar. Shout out to Brian, our designer, and Kenny for putting that packaging together. So I think the combination of the timing, us being first to market with it, the name of Sakura, because I do think there's this fascination with consumers and Asian culture in America right now. And so I think you line all those things up and it just created, and as soon as people start trying it, it literally flew. I mean, usually our P Club stuff lasts maybe two to three weeks. This one lasted three days. After it goes through, sorry, after it goes through P Club, it's available at the distillery. P Club absorbed like 80% of this, which was surprising because normally they'll take about half of it. And then we have the remaining half to go to the gift shop here. But they took majority of it, then it flew. It was gone within three or four days here at the distillery, which was awesome, but it's gone. And that's the cool thing. It's like, all right, we built this awesome thing, wish we made more. And then we go back and forth, like, well, do we run it back? You know, because there's such a demand for it, or do we wait and have this just be an annual, you know, release around the, you know, the spring blossom and keep the mystique and hype around it. Now we're sure that other brands are going to start using this particular product, you know, profile for theirs. And so, you know, that's the conundrum of when we ultimately decided like, hey, I think this is something special. That should be one time a year. So we will bring this back probably next year for around the, you know, the cherry blossom bloom in March and whatnot.

Speaker 4:
[17:58] So you guys get a lot of your partners reaching out wanting to, hey, can you go through this?

Speaker 5:
[18:02] Every distributor is like, you got to use Sakura, you got to use Sakura. And I was like, no, but you got tons of double oak in your warehouse. And it's not that.

Speaker 1:
[18:09] I mean, it's one of those things that, you know, they, they told us forever. We don't want more skews. Hammer the core, go push the core, push the core. And all of a sudden we have a runaway product. They're like, well, when do I get some? Like you told us you didn't want any.

Speaker 4:
[18:24] Do you, this is kind of an aside, and maybe we've talked about it in a different way before, but do you find the reception just in what you've noticed on both sides, Bourbon Pursuit side and this side, the reception to wood finished products land better than other finished products? Because this is like categorical brick that I've been personally trying to think about for, like even my end of the year lists. I feel like people's, when they're talking about finished products, like, I don't want that, blah, blah, blah. But then a lot of times when it comes to wood fish, even the Sakura, right? Then they're open.

Speaker 5:
[18:58] Yeah, their wallet says a different story.

Speaker 4:
[19:00] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[19:00] I mean, yeah, if we were, I mean, we did do the Alpha Barrel, which was a one-time unfinished cash drink, and there was a lot of mystique and hype around that, and the whiskey was incredible, but there was only 110 bottles out of that barrel. But yeah, I think there's a mystique around wood finishing, cigar blends, you name it. That just because people are always looking for something different, interesting, and unique. You're always going to have great LTOs from the big six that are just straight bourbon whiskies with high age statements and crazy proofs or crazy stories about them that people are going to resonate and chase after. But I think from the new and NDPs and smaller producers, people are definitely more, they're more likely to entertain or purchase from someone with these wood finishes than if we were just to come out with a high age bourbon that's, you know, a 10, 12 year product. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 4:
[20:04] I know, I think people still want a 10, 12, whatever year.

Speaker 1:
[20:07] No, people still want that. But actually it'll take 10, 12 year finished in Sakura. Just add all the, throw the dice at it.

Speaker 5:
[20:14] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[20:15] I think that you're not going to get away from people that are going to want those high age statements. I mean, hell, we do too. And are you thinking of maybe like a wine finish versus a toasted finish versus a whatever?

Speaker 4:
[20:27] And again, I mean, I don't really want to continue to bring you down into three or more categories, but I mean, even the maple and the honey, right? Like that kind of, I feel like, sits in its own thing. The wine casks, the those, I feel like those have not been resonating as well, folks, as anymore, is what it seems like I'm seeing. But then, but how someone would categorize a wood finishing, it's kind of a mixed bag, you know? But it seems like even with what you were saying, though, just about the general reception, even being kind of first to market, just an overwhelming response to the Sakura, yes, it's unique, but also it's not unique because you're, it's not like a cherry liqueur finished whatever thing, right? It's, it's wood treatment.

Speaker 1:
[21:11] I still feel like you fit in the general category of almost a bourbon flavored bourbon, right? Versus when you get to wine or you get to maple or you get to honey, then it's really not tasting like bourbon so much anymore. Whereas with toasting different types of wood, French oak, American oak, whatever it is, yes, it is manipulating the whiskey in a way, but I don't think it's feeling additive, if that makes any sense too.

Speaker 5:
[21:38] Yeah. I'm surprised you say that. I don't, especially with the honey, I still feel like there's a ton of interest. I look at Short Barrel and their Bees Knees and Kentucky Nectar, and it's like, they're still like, I mean, maybe from other producers, it's not, but I look at those two and it seems like there's still just flying off the shelves and whatnot.

Speaker 4:
[21:59] Well, again, I don't want to keep making multiple categories, but when I think about something like a honey or maple is a sweetener, and the whiskeys themselves, rye, bourbons, whatever, already have varying levels of sweetness to spice. To me, it's more of like a modifier finishing, right? So it's like, as someone who drinks their whisky neat, most likely is fine with an old fashion as well, right? So something like a maple, something like a honey, anything like that to me, is like a rum finished even a little bit. It's like, it's kind of like a bottled cocktail. It's kind of like what I already would drink when it's hot. But you get towards the wine finishing or all those things. And I like the flavor that can add some depth, but they're definitely moving more into a different type of spirit.

Speaker 5:
[22:48] Yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 4:
[22:50] So you made it seem like the response from P Club was a bit different than you would have expected, but tell me where you all thought the product would land. I mean, did you think, hey, this is different, this is unique, this is going to be successful? Or were you just kind of like, I don't know, it is different, let's see what people think. Where were you prior to its release?

Speaker 1:
[23:21] You, me, everybody else listening to this podcast right now, we all like to have our nightly bourbon. And you've probably noticed, especially as you get older, that your sleep, it starts taking a hit. That's because alcohol ends up increasing your heart rate and your temperature. But the 8 Sleep Pod 5 is here to fix it. It's a smart cover that fits on your current bed, and it uses an autopilot AI system to learn your patterns, cooling you down to a crisp 55 degrees and ensure that you're still hitting those deep sleep stages. Plus, when you wake up, you get a full report every single morning. 99% of their heart rate accuracy was no wearable required. It's how I stay recovered during these hot Kentucky summers. Now remember, it's not a medical device, but it is the largest sleep data set in the world working right with you. You can use code bourbonpursuit at 8sleep.com/bourbonpursuit, and you can get up to $350 off your own Pod 5. Plus, you can try it 30 days risk-free. That's 8sleep.com/bourbonpursuit. Hey, everyone. It's Kenny here. Did you know that you can get ad-free episodes by joining us on Patreon? Yeah, it's that easy. So if you love the show, you can help keep the whiskey flowing by joining our community over on Patreon. Bourbon Pursuit is fueled by grassroots supporters and listeners just like you. For as little as $5 a month, you're in. But at $10, not only do you get ad-free episodes, you get a Bourbon Pursuit t-shirt, a bottle tote bag, and a whole lot of other perks. So consider supporting and joining our community over at patreon.com/bourbonpursuit. Come check it out and join the community.

Speaker 2:
[24:58] I'm Brynnelly.

Speaker 6:
[24:58] I'm the master distiller here at Four Roses.

Speaker 2:
[25:00] Name is Chris Morris.

Speaker 6:
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Speaker 7:
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Speaker 6:
[25:58] Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney Plus.

Speaker 2:
[26:01] Let's go!

Speaker 6:
[26:02] Get ready for a new case.

Speaker 7:
[26:03] We're going to crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time.

Speaker 6:
[26:07] New friends.

Speaker 5:
[26:08] You are?

Speaker 2:
[26:09] Gary the Snake.

Speaker 5:
[26:10] And your last name?

Speaker 7:
[26:11] The Snake.

Speaker 6:
[26:12] Dream Team.

Speaker 4:
[26:14] New habitats.

Speaker 2:
[26:15] Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly working it. Zootopia 2, now available on Disney Plus rated PG.

Speaker 4:
[26:33] You made it seem like the response from P Club was a bit different than you would have expected, but tell me where you all thought the product would land. I mean, did you think, hey, this is different, this is unique, this is going to be successful, or were you just kind of like, I don't know, it is different, let's see what people think? Like where were you prior to its release?

Speaker 1:
[26:55] I feel like I knew it was gonna be, it was gonna have a good amount of success, and that's because we're first movers. I'm not gonna say we're the first people to ever come out with the Sakura finished whiskey, because there's plenty of that already in Japanese whiskey and stuff like that too. I think there's very, very small handful of ones that are in the American whiskey category, but for a brand that is, I'm not gonna say we're well known, but at least we're known in some types of circles that it was the first of its kind. And so by doing that, you have an early mover, you have an early advantage, and that's going to get a lot of people hyped up about it. And you were sitting there trying to probably video me as I was looking at my phone, because Sakura hit Unicorn Auctions. And I think the last I saw was like at 260, it was still like three days left, but I was trying to search it and try to find it. I couldn't see where it ended up at.

Speaker 4:
[27:47] You guys are the next Pappy Van Winkle.

Speaker 1:
[27:48] So who knows, right?

Speaker 5:
[27:50] I don't know about that, but to, I think, I think, you know, going through the first year of P Club, and I think why this one kind of P Club ran through it all, like all of our P Club releases were fantastic. And, you know, I get on Parlor, this, that, and, you know, somebody would just order one bottle of that P Club release. And then they're like, crap, this is really good. Why can I get another one? We're like, no, sorry, it's sold out. And I think, you know, I think this shows the value of P Club in that, you know, cause sometimes, and I understand people will be like, well, why would I be a P Club member if it sells at the distillery? You know, I can just go, but you get first access to this. And I think that the Sakura proves the value of being a P Club member because P Club, there were a ton of two, three, you know, multiple bottle orders, whereas before they were just, you know, like, I'll just get one. And like I said, we, for P Club, we really want this to be a special or unique release for them and have them to have first access. And I think people learned from last year that they better take it seriously. And so they loaded up their carts with this. And so it diminished it much more than prior P Club releases.

Speaker 4:
[29:05] It's an interesting point you bring up because, you know, we are, I mean, this would be an interesting point for the listeners if they, if they sent an email in or something like that. All these different places.

Speaker 1:
[29:18] Are you begging for people to ask you questions in email?

Speaker 4:
[29:20] No, no, no, no, not specifically, but as you're saying that, it had me thinking about.

Speaker 1:
[29:25] Hallowed listener, please send us a message.

Speaker 4:
[29:26] Subscriptions and all the clubs that are coming up lately, right? You know, because even recently, we've been kind of relooking over like the bottle club at Sealbox and what exactly that looks like. And the goal would be that you offer something initially, right, it's a little bit of a surprise. I mean, that's kind of what you all would be doing too. You enter something in, the folks already pay for it. So you would think that they would trust you to bring something to them that they're going to want to want. So when someone wouldn't pick it up, it's interesting because I see the logic. It's somebody who, everyone out there, every store, every group, they're always picking stuff, they're always bringing stuff and not everything hits. I totally get that. But if these people are invested, they've decided to sign up for the Bardstown thing, or the Heaven Hill, or P Club, whatever it is, you would think they would stop just being uncertain at that point in time.

Speaker 1:
[30:27] Well, I think with you have a level of trust, and with Heaven Hill, you have a level of trust. Bardstown, you have a level of trust. P Club, I think we're still building trust. And where we are able to provide a much better experience for our members is because even though that we are going to be telling you all the new products that were coming, by no means are you required to buy anything. You can still skip a release. So if you're looking at it, you're like, you know what, I know they're coming out with honey. I don't drink honey bourbon. I don't want it.

Speaker 5:
[31:02] That's fine.

Speaker 1:
[31:02] Skip it. Or buy something else from the catalog. I don't care. It's your choice. And so that freedom and that flexibility is what I would like as a consumer. And that's really how it was modeled after as well.

Speaker 5:
[31:13] Yeah. Yeah. But I think going through the first year, we built some trust with RP club members. And that's why Sakura just went so fast is because they're like, all right, these guys don't mess around. They do provide extremely good products at a good value. Like, I'm going to take this one seriously, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4:
[31:37] Yeah. Well, let's turn the conversation then because, you know, we've talked before in even earlier on the podcast, you know, we had brought up, I had brought up, I had questioned, you know, what's the plan after Double Oat, right? It's, you know, it's kind of this, hey, we know it's popular right now. We know everyone's wanting it. But like, will that train continue to to chew chew, you know, or are you going to have to think beyond that? But, you know, we've moved beyond that and Cast Strength Rye had a huge run right at the end of the year. It's still being talked about. You know, the Alpha Barrel had a lot of folks talking about it. We've seen multiple episodes go out, not only here in the distillery, but some of those going out to market as well. And then now we see Sakura as well. So it's proving to be more than just a one time hit. So, what are some other hits that we've got? What have you all been able to take from seeing that what you're doing is working? And how have you continued to lay out the steps for yourselves as we're going through 2026?

Speaker 1:
[32:44] I feel like Ryan had a small little bit of an introspection moment yesterday when he was talking about, what does our target customer want? And what are the distributors telling us that we need to do? And they're not aligning of talk about the core. Let's push 88 versus our target customer once all this wild shit we're coming out with. And so it's hard.

Speaker 4:
[33:06] Do you feel like they've changed though? Like from where you were taking with the brand, do you think it's changing while it's happening?

Speaker 1:
[33:15] It's changing in front of our face. The thing is, as a part of the strategic direction of where it's going, I don't feel that we can deviate from our current path because you can't build a brand on wild shit. Like it's not going to happen. Sorry for part of my language, somebody that's listening out there with kids in the car. It's, you know, you got to have your core pieces that are the ones that are the engine that pulls the train. I mean, obviously, Alani had some of their first ones. And then was it their lime green slushy or whatever that came out?

Speaker 5:
[33:47] It's so good, I can't find it anymore.

Speaker 4:
[33:49] You can't find it anymore, dude.

Speaker 5:
[33:50] I love that symbol.

Speaker 4:
[33:51] In Costco, they have it in the slush pack now. Blue, pink, and green slush.

Speaker 1:
[33:56] All right, so anyway, it just goes to show you, it's like, you got to have your kind of cores and then you kind of have your wild ones on the outside. But to kind of talk about the progression of where it's going, you know, we have the core six, if you will, and that is going to continue to be the core six for a little bit until we see any deviation that we need to. We have releases that will be coming out of Twice Toasted once again. We made the decision last year to turn that into sort of a biannual release, and that's going to be bottled here in the next month or so, and hopefully probably going out to markets at some point in May, and in late May. Then I don't know how much more I want to give away. On the Double Oak side, we are working more with the private selection program to bring in more a new state profiles. I think that'll be the interesting thing that we can do continuing down this path, is that when we have folks like Sealbox, or SNW Liquors, or Liquor Zone in Perlin, Texas, and they've selected a bunch of barrels for us, and you come back and you go, what's new? What do you got?

Speaker 5:
[35:10] These tobaccos are great, but we love them so much, we don't want them again.

Speaker 1:
[35:15] Yeah, and so you got to find new things, and so you're continually rotating and creating an evolution of what's to come in the program. I think we've got five or six new ones that will be introducing the program here in the next couple of months.

Speaker 5:
[35:29] We've got nine new ones.

Speaker 1:
[35:31] Yeah, so nine new ones.

Speaker 4:
[35:33] Have Pursuit Stave Profiles become the new Four Roses mashpill?

Speaker 1:
[35:39] Maybe. But I mean, that's one of the things that we have to keep that continually being fresh. You kind of talked about, is this getting stale as just the double oak? I don't think so. We've had, I don't know how many people that go, give us barrel strength double oak, we've tried it and it's not as great as we think it could be. And that's why 108 still reigns supreme. But on the flip side of that, there's so many more people that have not had a chance to try it. And I think that we're still have, we have a lot of market penetration to still go. And there's no point in switching over a product. I had this conversation with our team here, upstairs for doing the whole shebang. And they're like, we need to switch it up. Let's start doing this. Let's do this. And I was like, y'all, we've been open for, and doing the whole shebang now for two years. And we have two and a half million visitors coming through here. Do you think we've clipped 5% of them? Not even close. So we have way more people that we need to get in front of and before we start changing things around.

Speaker 5:
[36:43] Yeah, on the whole shebang side too, it's really cool. Because we talked about how we were changing, creating the blends, re-barreling. A lot of the whole shebang barrels were blended inside the barrel for 3-6 months. Now we've built the pipeline to now we're almost, there are at least been in there a year to 18 months. So seeing how the whiskeys evolved and change, and the barrels that are going into the whole shebang now are the best that's ever been in there. So it was like, I've already done it, but you haven't tasted these barrels. They're completely different than what was offered a year ago, two years ago when we first started this. Yeah, there's this, there's this relentless pursuit, no pun intended. And I was kind of having a, you know, a self-pity party on the way here with Kenny, where it's like, you know, you're doing all these things, and like, sometimes they don't work out, and you're, you know, and I'm just never, we're never satisfied. And I think it's like our standards and expectations of what we are as a brand is like, what makes our brand special, that we are putting out really good products. But at the same time, it can take an emotional wear and tear on you because you're always like, never satisfied and you're always like, God, is this as good as it could be? And it's...

Speaker 4:
[38:05] Elaborate on that more. What were you unsatisfied with, with either what's happening or product or something like that? Like, what is unsatisfying to you?

Speaker 5:
[38:16] Like, for instance, you have these things that work out for you. Like, so say like double bourbon pups with this stave or in that. And then, like I was tasting through some barrels yesterday, Kenny had mentioned he had gone on trip and he's like, ah, the barrels weren't. And I was like, really? And I hadn't tried them. I went down there and I was trying through them and I'm like, he's right. And I'm like, why is this? And so like ruminating on it all night in my bed, like tossing, turning, not sleeping. And I'm just like, like, what's going wrong with these? And like how, what, what did we, where did we, cause we're doing the same thing like that we've done always. And it's like, that's what whiskey is, you know, it's so unique about it, but it's also challenging. It's like, you can come up and create products the same way every time, but they don't create the same results. And that kind of gets frustrating, I guess, from a, especially a producer our size with everything being boutique, small batch, everything's five to ten barrels. And so I guess it gets wears on you because I'm not just going to be like, they're good enough, let's just put them out there, who cares? And, you know, so that's where I think it gets exhausting because you're like constantly looking for perfection. And sometimes the whiskey gods don't give you perfection. And so you have to be patient and diligent and keep moving forward to like, all right, well, this batch didn't work out, let's try to refine and get those where they need to be, or just let them sit longer. Or, you know, next time, what do we need to do to make sure that this outcome doesn't happen again?

Speaker 1:
[39:53] He's just spinning a lot of plates in his head right now. This is what's going on. We had this conversation the way over, and it's about, and I kind of told him, he's going through an evolution of trying to see if he's trying to better himself. You know, is it reaching to the point where it's meeting the expectations that he wants to? I said, keep your standards high. That's what's going to make us successful, and we're going to keep pushing to make sure that every product that we put out is going to meet the expectations that we want, and that we don't want to have anybody disappointed, and not to name names or brands, but you see it all the time when people go, they were good at first and then they got too big, and now all the stuff they put out is mediocre. I don't want to fall in that trap.

Speaker 4:
[40:44] Just a reminder too then, again, I know we've talked about this in regards to scale points, but are we seeing anything different that's going to be entering into the line up, or where are we at age marker range and stuff like that, or is it only volume that's happening in 2026?

Speaker 1:
[41:04] Just volume. Everything in the blend is still around five to seven years, so that's not changing. As a regard as of what products are going to go in and out, we haven't really had a chance to prove a lot of the products. These things take a year or two to see what market reaction is going to be. But that gives us enough time. I mean, we happened already with Sherry Rye. We love the product. The market didn't, so we'll just have to take that and adapt to it.

Speaker 5:
[41:33] It didn't until we discontinued it. Yeah. Then they started wanting it back, and it's like, where were you when it was on the shelves?

Speaker 4:
[41:41] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[41:42] So that's the way it is though. And we've had a lot of, for Cognac Casper, because that was a really special, and distributors and customers are like, when's it coming back? Can we launch it? Can you make that a main? And we're like, the easy button would to do it, but would the market, the bigger market, would they accept it and would they appreciate it? And so that's the tricky part about Sakura, that because I do think the flavor profile of Sakura can fit that whisky nerd geek. But like I've had a lot of my friends who aren't like huge whisky nerds, and they just like drink Woodford Double Oak or whatever Bourbon and Coke. And they were like, oh my God, this thing is crazy good. Like even at Cash Strength, they're like, it's not hot, it's creamy, it's sweet, it's floral, it's fruity. I just think it has like this flavor that has such mass appeal in the name with it. That's the hard part about it. It's like, well, maybe this is one we need to take out. But I think we need to let it sit for create another one, but not bring it out so fast. And I don't want to do where we bring it out, bring it out, then it loses its luster.

Speaker 4:
[43:01] Have you brought any of those folks in to taste the barrels that keep you up at night to see what their thoughts are on that? I'm just curious when you think about that and your standards, again, not that you need to bring them down, but just curious what a consumer perspective would have on that too, because especially what you're talking about with the split though, it's like you got people over here who might be looking for this, you got people over here looking for this. It's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[43:28] I'm still a freshman, Brian, let him sleep on it for another 24 hours.

Speaker 4:
[43:33] I will message you.

Speaker 1:
[43:35] That was me coming and opening that wound, and I haven't had a chance to go back and taste them either. We have, of course, Tim on our panel, and we can always lean on some other people internally, of course, as well as you, Brian. But obviously, I think that's something that we can look at from our Community Manager, if we want to look at and have a tasting panel come in of some guests and figure out what works and what doesn't.

Speaker 5:
[43:58] Yeah. And we have three quarters left of products for P-Club and Distillery Only, and I'm really excited about those. We don't have to get into them, but I think we got- Oh, but we could.

Speaker 1:
[44:14] Not yet.

Speaker 5:
[44:15] Not yet, but we'll save that for P-Club. When we do the P-Club, FaceTime, not FaceTime video, but the-

Speaker 1:
[44:22] Livestream.

Speaker 5:
[44:22] Livestream, thank you. Give them the inside info, but we got three killer releases. What's fun was last year, being at the first year, we're scramble and trying to get things together. I had a whole year to map out and plan what we have for this year. They're already all in the process and they're all in really gorgeous spots. I'm really excited about the products. Now, it's another exhausting thing. Now, I've got to already start work on 2027. It never stops. You can never just sit and celebrate a win, like secure it because you're like- No, you cannot. You just got to always be thinking about, well, what's 27 going to bring or 28 going to bring? We've talked about this all the time, but that's the hard part about this business and why time just evaporates is because you're thinking about today, a year from now, two years from now, five years from now, and it's like, your brain just can never just shut up because you're just always thinking about the future and you can never really live and celebrate the moment.

Speaker 1:
[45:31] You know, he's speaking like somebody who's getting ready to have a birthday. You sound like an old man, isn't he?

Speaker 5:
[45:34] I know. He's an old man. 41 is coming fast.

Speaker 4:
[45:38] It's exciting. It's tiring. It's exhausting. Actually, it sounds miserable.

Speaker 1:
[45:42] His bags are just like, he could fly free on Southwest with those, right?

Speaker 4:
[45:49] You just won't get them in the end.

Speaker 5:
[45:50] No, my kids are like, you look older, way older than mommy. I'm like, thanks kids.

Speaker 4:
[45:54] Thank you so much. Kids are always so nice and truthful, aren't they?

Speaker 5:
[45:56] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[45:57] Well, everybody, thanks for listening to another episode of Behind The Pursuit here on the Bourbon Pursuit Network. As a reminder, if you have podcast ideas, questions for the guys, you can always send them in, podcasts at pursuitspirits.com. All right, everybody, thanks for listening to another episode of Behind The Pursuit. Until next time, we'll see you all later.

Speaker 1:
[46:13] Cheers.

Speaker 4:
[46:14] Toodles.