transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Kayak gets my flight, hotel and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong.

Speaker 2:
[00:07] Bro, Skycoin, way better than points.

Speaker 3:
[00:10] Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:23] Bad advice?

Speaker 3:
[00:24] You talking to me?

Speaker 1:
[00:25] Kayak, got that right.

Speaker 3:
[00:30] K-Pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?

Speaker 1:
[00:38] It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

Speaker 2:
[00:44] It is an honor to share.

Speaker 4:
[00:45] No, it's our honor.

Speaker 2:
[00:47] It is our larger honor.

Speaker 1:
[00:49] No, really. Stop.

Speaker 3:
[00:51] You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 5:
[01:30] When women are low in estrogen, they're irritable. Sometimes they have trouble with brain fog, they have trouble with word finding, they have trouble with memory. There are a lot of women in perimenopause and menopause that suddenly that trauma that they suppressed, they pretended wasn't there, avails itself. I think this contributes to a lot of midlife divorces. I think it also contributes to a lot of health problems that women experience.

Speaker 6:
[01:52] Women in their 40s and 50s, what should someone pay more attention to or any attention to now that they're not?

Speaker 5:
[01:59] Learn how to take a slow-fo yoga class. Get outside and walk in nature. Like, I'm talking about simple things that we know on a very basic level are going to improve your quality of life, but are also going to have a positive net impact on the microbiome. Going to bed 30 minutes earlier. Sometimes it can be drinking more water. I mean, it's things like that that really do have a large net impact on how people perceive their life is moving in a more positive direction. If you want improvement in your symptoms, you have to be willing to change some things.

Speaker 6:
[02:28] Even when you're doing all the right things, your strength training, staying active, prioritizing protein, keeping the muscle you built over a lifetime gets harder with age. Now, our parents were told to accept that it's just getting older. I don't buy that. That's why I use Timeline powered by MagnaPure. Here's the real story. Muscle isn't just about strength or looking good. Muscle runs your metabolism, protects your balance, preserves your independence, and determines how powerfully you age. And what most people don't realize is that muscle loss isn't only about hormones or workouts. It's about cellular energy. As we age, our mitochondria, those energy engines inside our muscle cells become less efficient. Now, when your muscles can't produce energy well, it's harder to maintain strength, function, and resilience. That's where MagnaPure comes in. It's the only clinically studied form of urolithin A, a post-biotic shown in human clinical trials to support muscle strength and function by helping renew mitochondrial health at the cellular level. I love this because it works with your training, not instead of it. Now, strength training is the signal. Protein is the building block and MagnaPure supports the cellular energy that allows your muscles to actually respond and adapt. MagnaPure gummies make it simple. TODAY, sugar-free, vegan, non-GMO, and independently certified for quality. And let's not forget, absolutely delicious. So if staying strong is part of your longevity strategy, and I sure hope it is, visit timeline.com/jjvirgin and get 20% off your order. Building muscle, stabilizing blood sugar, and supporting your metabolism. Those have been my core messages to millions of women over the years. But you know, there's something we don't talk about enough. And that's when you travel. What happens? Quite often, you experience constipation, stomach aches, bloating, and not just during your trip, but also when you get back. This happens because your microbiome gets exposed to lots of different stuff, different foods, different water, different microbes. Or it could just be the stress from all that travel. Now, I recently traveled through the Amazon rainforest, and even though I'm used to traveling, I made sure I had these two supplements with me to avoid any kind of craziness. Paragardian and Herbal Power Flush from Bioptimizers. Paragardian is a botanical formula designed to support gut balance. Think of it as your reset tool when your system has been a little challenged. An herbal power flush supports regularity gently and effectively, especially when your routine has been disrupted with different schedules, different hydration, and different food timing. And if elimination slows down, everything feels off. You feel bloated, inflamed, sluggish. So here's the bottom line. Your gut is not separate from your metabolism. If your digestion and elimination are off, even a little bit, more than likely, everything else will be off too. So whether you're traveling or just feel like your system needs support, head to buyoptimizers.com/jjvirgin, and use code JJVIRGIN to make sure you have these two supplements on hand for whenever you're feeling a little off. Hey, I'm JJ Virgin, PhD dropout. Sorry, mom. Turned four time New York Times bestselling author. As a certified nutrition specialist, fitness hall of famer, and globally recognized leader in health, I'm driven to keep asking the tough questions and use my podcast to simplify the science of health into actionable strategies that help you thrive. I'd also love to hear your thoughts on the show. And here's the fun part. When you send me your review, I'll reply to you using my on-demand virtual me. That's right. My team and I created a virtual JJ packed with my books, speeches and wisdom so I can personally connect with you. Here's how you do it. Subscribe and leave an honest review of the podcast. Take a screenshot of your review. Text it to 813-565-2627. That's 813-565-2627. My virtual JJ will reply directly. And trust me, this will make your day. So subscribe now at subscribe to jj.com and text me your review. Let's keep thriving together. Cynthia Thurlow, welcome to the studio.

Speaker 5:
[07:02] So good to be here, JJ.

Speaker 6:
[07:03] Yes, it's been a while since you've been at my house.

Speaker 5:
[07:05] I know, I know.

Speaker 6:
[07:06] I'm going to have you back. I am super excited about this book. What a different take on menopause. How the heck did you get here with doing the menopause gut?

Speaker 5:
[07:16] I think it had a lot to do with the fact that I have my own podcast and I'm listening to all these scientists and science writers and physicians and other health care experts. I kept thinking there's this void in the perimenopause and menopause space. I think no one is speaking about the changes that are happening in the gut microbiome. And yet I think it's equally important to all these other conversations about bone health and brain health and heart health. And why isn't anyone talking about it? And so I pitched the idea to my editor and she said, oh my gosh, run with it. She's like, I love everything about this concept.

Speaker 6:
[07:47] Did you know what you were getting into when you said that?

Speaker 5:
[07:50] No, I did not. Because I mean, doesn't life imitate art? And so some of us, as we're writing books, life is happening. And so I would say that as I was writing this book, JJ, it was probably the hardest 18 months of my adult life. And so I feel like it really is this incredible labor of love. I think it is such a unique perspective and one that is so necessary. Because I really think, for most women, they think that perimenopause and menopause is just slapping on an estrogen patch. And I'm like-

Speaker 6:
[08:20] Isn't that all it is? Just have your hormones go down.

Speaker 5:
[08:22] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6:
[08:22] So get them back.

Speaker 5:
[08:23] Get them back up and that will fix everything.

Speaker 6:
[08:25] Well, what do you think that everyone is getting wrong about menopause and gut health then?

Speaker 5:
[08:30] I think on a lot of different levels, we don't understand the dynamics in the gut microbiome in terms of what's happening beneath the surface as these hormones are declining. It's changing our metabolism, it's changing our immune system, it's changing our response to food, it's changing how much calories we extract from our food. It literally impacts everything that is changing within our body so dynamically. And yet it's kind of an afterthought. People are like, I don't even know what the gut microbiome is. I don't know where it is. I don't know why it's relevant. And yet a heart is tangible, a brain seems pretty tangible, bones seem pretty tangible. And yet I think that the gut microbiome research has really kind of increased over the last five to 10 years. And we're talking more and more and more about these complex interrelationships between the gut microbiome and organs and cells and everything else. And so I think that there's just not enough clarity about why it's so important to be not only looking at it, but also supporting it.

Speaker 6:
[09:23] So someone's heading into perimenopause and they're starting on their wild hormone ride. And depending on what's going on, progesterone is going down, estrogen is going down, and you're saying it's impacting the microbiome. Here's the big question is in order to improve the gut microbiome, is it that you need to get the hormones back? Or are there other things you can do outside of hormones that would make perimenopause a lot easier? Menopause a lot easier. And you're saying yes with your face. Good.

Speaker 1:
[09:53] Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 5:
[09:54] I mean, it is lifestyle and hormonal replenishment. And I think for a lot of people, they think that they can have that estrogen patch or the oral progesterone or the testosterone if they need it. And they don't have to change lifestyle. It is critically important because every single thing you and I talk about, whether it's sleep or stress management, nutrition, exercise, they all impact the microbiome positively or negatively. And so helping women understand that as we are kind of navigating this hormonal decline or depending on where you are on perimenopause, you might be high estrogen, low progesterone, helping them better understand their physiology. So it's like, oh, this is why you're encouraging me to get that sleep piece. This is why you're encouraging me to exercise a particular way. This is why you're encouraging me to eat more fiber. It is not just grandma's metamucil. There's so much more to the conversation. And I think in many instances, our traditional allopathic system doesn't have the time or the inclination to have those conversations.

Speaker 6:
[10:49] Well, you think about it. And I've been in this world now for 30 years. So, you know, I've done my share of stool tests and adrenal tests and hormone tests. But the reality is how often in an allopathic office is someone ever even ordered a stool test?

Speaker 5:
[11:05] They're doing it for a couple of main reasons. One is to have a cardiac to look for whether or not you have hidden blood in your stool, or you came back from vacation and you have traveler's diarrhea and they want to make sure you don't have a parasitic infection, ova and parasites. So not all that commonly. And I think in a lot of different ways that traditional allopathic medicine does a great job with specific things. But this is where I think integrative medicine does a really fantastic job of looking a little more deeply, looking at keystone bacteria and dysbiotic organisms and whether or not you produce enough hydrochloric acid or digestive enzymes or any of those things. And so I think for a lot of these patients, those insights can make a big difference in how people feel. Because I can tell you a lot of these women that are on hormones, they're optimal on hormones, their numbers look good, and they come to me and they're still not feeling better. And I would say there's more to this conversation. I wish it was just as simple as you get your HRT and everything gets fixed. But more often than not, there are lifestyle components that aren't being addressed.

Speaker 6:
[12:06] Now, in order for someone to understand this, would they need to do a stool test of some type to see the microbiome? Or are there things that they could start doing right away that could potentially help?

Speaker 5:
[12:16] Yeah, I would say absolutely. You don't necessarily have to have a stool test right away. I think something as simple as adding more fiber into your diet. And I know the carnivore community hates this.

Speaker 6:
[12:26] How has fiber become controversial?

Speaker 5:
[12:28] It's the new F word, JJ. When I tell you, like I have literally had people say, I want you to come on my podcast, but we can't talk about fiber.

Speaker 6:
[12:34] Oh, that's so funny. Wouldn't it be better to talk about these things? I mean, I feel like fiber is the new lectins.

Speaker 5:
[12:40] Yes. And here's the thing, like in 2019, before we even knew each other, I had a lengthy hospitalization. I got a lot of antibiotics, a lot of antifungal agents. It saved my life. But for how many years afterwards did I not tolerate fiber? And so when women tell me I don't tolerate fiber, I'm like, well, it's a sign. It's a sign that something is off in the microbiome. So I think for a lot of individuals, if they understand what was happening physiologically in their bodies with this decline in hormones, it also impacts a key signaling molecule called short chain fatty acids. So something like butyrate, I'm sure most people have heard of. Those decline, we change our insulin sensitivity, we change inflammatory properties in the body, as long as many other things. And so fiber becomes critically important as we are navigating this hormonal decline. And so fiber doesn't have to look the same for everyone, I always say track and then eat more. And you know, the guidelines now say 25 to 30 grams.

Speaker 6:
[13:35] They went down, man. They used to be like, I used to always tell people 50. And then I saw the latest one, I go, wait, when did our fiber guidelines go down? Yeah, yeah, why are we reducing those? And the other challenge was fiber, it kind of reminds me of like, you're talking about protein or fat, I go, well, there's essential amino acids, there's essential fatty acids, like, you know, there's different types of fiber. So you could say fiber and someone's just taking one source of supplemental fiber and they forget the fact they're soluble, insoluble, resistant and prebiotic. So when you're talking fiber, what are you talking about? Are you trying to get all from food? Are you supplementing? What are you doing?

Speaker 5:
[14:10] First of all, we want to baseline because I think that that is insightful. You know, the average American diet is anywhere from five to 10 grams, which is not sufficient to support the gut microbiome.

Speaker 6:
[14:20] Look at ultra processed foods.

Speaker 5:
[14:21] Right, they're devoid of fiber. Yeah, they're devoid of, which is why people sometimes on an ultra processed food diet don't poop at all. And that's a whole separate conversation. But when I am talking to patients, I would say like, let's try to get it from food based sources first. Like whether or not it's a tablespoon of flax and chia and a smoothie, whether it's adding artichoke hearts, whether it's adding some beans or lentils, it doesn't have to be copious amounts. Here's the thing, that's what people don't understand. It isn't copious amounts of anything. It's just being thoughtful about consumption. Now, if over time someone doesn't tolerate a lot of fiber, sometimes those supplements can create more symptoms, which is why I'm a fan of trying to get it from food-based sources first, as opposed to things like inulin or psyllium or even PHGG, which is a big fancy way of saying partially hydrogenated guar gum, which is an awkward kind of weird way of talking about supplements. But I think, you know, I'm a realist. And for some people, they just, frankly, can't get enough into their diet. It's always a good thing to kind of work towards. But if you can't get enough in, I would say like stick with things like psyllium, things that are simple. One ingredient, because unfortunately, a lot of people find them bloating. And so sometimes like I don't tolerate inulin at all.

Speaker 6:
[15:29] Well, the FOS ones, I was thinking could be really challenging for a lot of people. It seems to me backing up a bit that if you're having challenges with fiber, that should be a big warning sign that something else is going on. Not just don't ever eat fiber again. It's what's going on with your body that's not allowing you to eat fiber because fiber does really important things in your body. So the answer is to never eat fiber again. The answer is to heal your gut so you can eat the fiber.

Speaker 5:
[15:59] Exactly. And there was a study that just came out recently that was talking about a dose of antibiotics. And let me be clear, sometimes we need to be on antibiotics and we need to like let that go. But the net impact of a round of antibiotics on the gut microbiome can last up to eight years. So I don't say that to scare anyone, but I can tell you as someone who had a lot of antibiotics in 2019 that the way that I kind of look at things now, I'm like, I'm still, I'm eight years out. And I can tell you, I had a colonoscopy in 2020, I'd won in 2025, and my gastroenterologist came out and said, what are you doing differently? I said I radically increased my fiber intake.

Speaker 6:
[16:34] I'm big on fiber. I think fiber, to me, you eat carbohydrates for the fiber and polyphenols to fuel your gut microbiome. That's what I think of them for. Yes, we get the fuel in your muscles, but I love the fuel in the microbiome. But I also supplementally take resistant starch because I think that's the hard one of them to get enough of because I just don't really eat slightly green bananas or cooled potatoes that much.

Speaker 5:
[16:57] I'm one of those weirdos that I like those like green bananas.

Speaker 6:
[16:59] The astringent bananas.

Speaker 5:
[17:00] Yes, which my husband's like, I don't understand. I'm like, you don't understand. It's the only way I like to eat them. So I know that that makes me very weird, but cool cooked potatoes or cool cooked rice is a good way to get that in.

Speaker 6:
[17:10] We've got it in the fridge. I just, meh.

Speaker 5:
[17:12] It's just not your favorite.

Speaker 6:
[17:13] I don't love it. So I just, that's how I cheat it. I just do it that way because after that whole disaster, one of the big things that showed up was my butyrate was low.

Speaker 5:
[17:21] Yeah. And butyrate is interesting. So it's the short chain fatty acids, but it's a particularly important one because it actually crosses the blood brain barrier. So I remind people these important signaling molecules, this is one of the very few things that naturally does that. And so it can serve as a secondary source of fuel. And so for a lot of people, they're like, oh, I just need to eat grass-fed butter. Well, yeah, that's great. But like you'd have to eat a lot.

Speaker 6:
[17:42] It's like going, and how much are you going to eat of that grass?

Speaker 5:
[17:45] Yeah, half a stick a day. No, thank you. That would not be my first choice. So I think that it's completely fine. And no one should feel a sense of shame if they take a supplement to fill in a nutritional gap when they know that they have one. Because quite transparently, it's impossible. Like, that's why I take urolithin A, because it's a postbiotic, but I cannot eat enough. And it's only like 25 to 30% of the population actually generates enough urolithin A in the setting of like strawberries, walnuts.

Speaker 6:
[18:11] And raspberries and wal- I took the test. I'm not one of them.

Speaker 5:
[18:14] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[18:14] I mean, how many pomegranates can you eat? It's not like they're that around.

Speaker 5:
[18:18] No.

Speaker 6:
[18:18] So.

Speaker 5:
[18:19] Agreed.

Speaker 6:
[18:19] That's how I feel about supplements too. So back over to this gut. Someone's heading into perimenopause. Would you recommend they do a stool test? Like how do they take what you're finding here and put it into action? Is it just they start paying attention more and seeing if they have any symptoms of any gut issues? What's the action step?

Speaker 5:
[18:40] So I would say a really good history. So if someone's working directly with me, it's like the bloating, alterations in constipation or diarrhea, which is unpleasant as it is to talk about poop. It's really important. Someone who's having mood changes, someone who feels like maybe they're more anxious, they're more depressed, maybe they're on a little bit of progesterone and they're still feeling that way.

Speaker 6:
[18:59] I wonder how you unpack what's the hormone and what's the gut?

Speaker 5:
[19:02] It's a little bit of a trial and error process, honestly. I mean, obviously you can take a really good history and I think, you know, I will tell students this also, that if you take a really good history from someone, you can oftentimes have a gestalt of which direction you need to go on. But I do think stool testing is very helpful, I think, in the context of what are their symptoms that are driving whatever is bothersome to them. And for me, it tends to be bloating and weight loss resistance are two of the biggest pain points for women at this stage of life. And what happens when you go to your traditional clinician, they're like, oh, you're 45 years old, you're 40, you're 42, you're 48. You should, yeah, it's normal. Five pounds is normal when, you know, for some people, five pounds is enough that they're even cognizant of it.

Speaker 6:
[19:43] We don't know why we're like acting like five pounds is no big deal.

Speaker 5:
[19:46] I'm five foot three. Five pounds on me is a lot.

Speaker 6:
[19:48] Even at six feet tall, five pounds is a big deal. Like, I think you should have like a two pound weight flux in what you weigh. And then if things start to go up, like, this is why you need to have a bioimpedant scale and be able to see what's going on here, especially if you're doing waste measurements too and that's going up.

Speaker 5:
[20:06] Yeah. So I think, you know, first and foremost, really good history. Number two, you can look at the stool testing. But the other thing that I think is even more important is doing just a broad based elimination diet. This doesn't eliminate everything. Eliminating the kind of key players. So I think about dairy, gluten, grains, sugar, alcohol. Yeah. I mean, in all honesty, those things alone, if someone's symptoms decrease or go away just with an elimination diet, I'm like, okay, then we know it's food related. It really goes back to a little bit of trial and error to see what is responsive. It is unusual that someone does not improve significantly with an elimination diet, more sleep, managing their stress. Show me a woman who doesn't manage her stress and I'll show you a woman that doesn't sleep well. And I think for a lot of women, they kind of have spent their 20s and 30s, probably their teen years. All the things that have made them be a successful person up until that point kind of become maladaptive strategies. And so I think that lifestyle piece really has to be part of the conversation. And unfortunately for a lot of women, that's hard to do because they're like, I like my lifestyle as it is.

Speaker 6:
[21:07] You can't have both.

Speaker 5:
[21:08] Correct. And so I always say, you know, if you want improvement in your symptoms, you have to be willing to change some things. So sometimes it could be as simple as going to bed 30 minutes earlier. Sometimes it can be drinking more water. I mean, it's things like that that really do have a large net impact on how people perceive their life is moving in a more positive direction.

Speaker 6:
[21:29] What if someone was not listening, they were not fortunate to be listening to this or grabbing the Menopause Gut Book, what do you think their long-term costs would be? They missed this whole thing. They went to a doctor. They got on hormones, but never paid any attention to the gut stuff. Was told it was kind of normal for them. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[21:48] I mean, I think there's a twofold thing. I think there are definitely people that, it's like the ostrich digging their head in the sand. They're just unwilling to acknowledge that there's a contributing factor or factors that are impacting their quality of life. I mean, ultimately, that's what it comes down to. What is their quality of life? What are they willing to change? And so I think on a lot of different levels, when women are deciding for themselves, enough is enough. I'm ready to get out of my own way and change the way I'm doing things so that I can improve my quality of life. But I think for anyone that is not 100% satisfied with where their health is going, they have to be thinking it's probably time to examine the gut and to think thoughtfully about the gut microbiome. And there's so much good information that's out there now. I mean, I feel like a lot of people are talking about this.

Speaker 6:
[22:36] They are just not towards this direction. I mean, it's like it's being talked about in terms of immune health, weight loss, but it's not being talked about here at all. Like you are the first person here to be talking about it. I'm sure a lot of people will start talking about it, but someone going in to see their provider, where should they start? Should they start with the gut? Should they start with hormones? Like what's the starting point?

Speaker 5:
[23:01] Yeah, I think it really depends on the symptoms they're experiencing. So if it's something that they say, I'm in late perimenopause, I'm 48, 49, I'm close to menopause, that full transition, we gotta get their sleep dialed in because we know that the impact of poor sleep is not just on metabolic health, it's on the gut microbiome. That's why jet lag impacts the gut microbiome so dramatically. So number one, it's like, do you need some oral progesterone? Do we need to start some estrogen therapy so that we get you falling asleep and staying asleep? Yes, we can do a gut microbiome test, but there's probably in the interim, we need to be looking more thoughtfully at some of these other parameters. And if you're not sleeping, we have to address that first.

Speaker 6:
[23:39] Is anyone going through perimenopause sleeping?

Speaker 5:
[23:42] I don't think so. I don't think so. I've actually had patients say to me, oh, I haven't slept well in 15 years. They're like 60 years old.

Speaker 6:
[23:48] And I'm like, what?

Speaker 5:
[23:49] That would be like an emergency. Like, I can't imagine. But it's part of that kind of patriarchal messaging that women shall suffer until proven otherwise. That is just the way that women have been treated.

Speaker 6:
[24:00] I feel so blessed that I had all of these hormone docs around me when I started in perimenopause. I like had one month.

Speaker 5:
[24:08] Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because I think the prevailing wisdom when I was in perimenopause was that you wait until menopause. And so that's why I always say like women that are 35, 40, 45, like for the love of God, ask for HRT earlier rather than later. There's no point in suffering.

Speaker 6:
[24:24] Well, how would you know when is the right time?

Speaker 5:
[24:26] I think when you become symptomatic. So if you're a woman that the week or two before your menstrual cycle, you're anxious, you're depressed, you can't sleep, you don't feel good. That is the time to say I would like 100 milligrams of oral micronized progesterone, which is dirt cheap. Like unless you have a peanut allergy, you can start there. It's not sustained release, it's non-sustained release, but it'll help. I think the other side of that is when women are low in estrogen, they're irritable. Sometimes they have trouble with brain fog, they have trouble with word finding, they have trouble with memory.

Speaker 6:
[24:57] Two of our peers, and one was a woman who's not close to perimenopause yet, and I'm like, just wait. There's no difference in metabolism.

Speaker 5:
[25:07] I'm telling you, it's a whole new world. I mean, I recall, and I will tell you this transparently, you know, I had two pregnancies in my 30s. I within, you know, a year got back to my pre-pregnancy weight and did really well. And then I hit the wall of perimenopause and I was like, oh my God. Like I didn't change anything, but now I can't sleep. I can't manage my stress. I can't do the same workouts. My body is like suddenly working against me. And everything that I used to tell my patients to do was no longer working. So very clearly the end of one experiment here, the end of one experiment across the table for me, clearly we know things change. And I'm sure that you've unpacked these topics, but I remind women all the time, there's like 10 reasons why it becomes harder to lose weight. Your shifts in body composition are related to multiple factors, not the least of which, as your estrogen is declining, as you are more likely to lose insulin sensitivity, that impacts your metabolism, that impacts all these other factors that many people conveniently forget about until they've actually gone through it themselves or on the other side.

Speaker 6:
[26:12] So what do you think for women in their 40s and 50s? What should someone pay more attention to or any attention to now that they're not?

Speaker 5:
[26:21] Changes to certain foods that you eat, recovery from workouts, thinking about how your sleep is changing around your menstrual cycle if you still have one, thinking about your working memory. This is something that a lot of women will say to me, I'm in the middle of a sentence and I forget the word. I'm in the middle of a presentation and I lose my train of thought. Or I have so much brain fog, I can't think coherently or cohesively. And so I think when you start having those kinds of symptoms, it's a sign that your hormones are in enough of a decline, that it's impacting your quality of life metrics. Not to mention the fact chronic urinary tract infections or recurrent urinary tract infections, painful sex, no libido. Like, let's be honest, we go through a period of time when we have little people at home, where the last thing we're thinking- Yeah, exactly. But like, you get to a backup on your feet, your kids are a little older, you should have some interest in sex, right? And so I think for a lot of people, it's these kind of multi-layered issues that start coming about. But for me, I think the big indicators are, don't recover from your workout, you change the way you feel when you eat certain types of otherwise healthy foods, and then the brain piece, like how many women want to lose their train of thought or they can't remember things. And I'm not talking about like, you didn't write it down on a list and you forgot it, like you forget where you put your keys chronically and habitually, you lose, you are driving home and you forget where you're driving to. Like these are women sometimes that are in their 40s and 50s this is happening to. And I'm like, that's incredibly scary.

Speaker 6:
[27:49] That's frightening, I've never done that one. I've walked into the room and gone, why am I in this room?

Speaker 5:
[27:52] That happens to me occasionally.

Speaker 6:
[27:54] Why am I here? What did I come here for? Some of it's ADHD combined with, you know, it's like the menopause ADHD brain, that should be a whole other thing.

Speaker 5:
[28:02] Yes.

Speaker 6:
[28:02] But not knowing how to get home, that's.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 7:
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Speaker 5:
[29:20] I've had a couple patients that have told me and then I was like, we may have to do more cognitive testing because that isn't necessarily the norm. But I think for a lot of women, it's the brain changes that they find most concerning, most bothersome, and then they automatically go to, oh, I'm going to end up having Alzheimer's. I'm like, time out. And I'm sure you've interviewed neurologists and people that don't automatically go there. It could be you're sleep deprived. It could be that you're stressed. It could be that where you are in your cycle, maybe it's the day before you change your estrogen patch if you're not cycling anymore. So I think there can be many different factors that contribute.

Speaker 6:
[29:53] Well, what do you think of the carnivore diet? I just have to ask this one because I...

Speaker 5:
[29:57] Well, transparently, and I have this on the record after I was hospitalized because I had... I know this is not a pleasant topic, but I had chronic diarrhea for a year.

Speaker 6:
[30:06] A year?

Speaker 5:
[30:07] Yes, and no one was worried about it. I kept telling...

Speaker 6:
[30:09] No one was worried about this?

Speaker 5:
[30:10] I kept saying, do you think maybe I'm not absorbing anything? I'm not absorbing anything I'm eating because I'm literally...

Speaker 6:
[30:16] Wow.

Speaker 5:
[30:16] So I was full carnivore for nine months, and then I was carnivore-ish for another nine months. And so I think for me personally, I do think they can be therapeutic. But I don't think any real kind of extreme elimination diet like that, that shouldn't be a long-term solution. I just think that in the absence of fiber, and this is what the research will demonstrate because I just interviewed an expert on the microbiome, she was talking about how in the absence of fiber, your gut is left to have to ferment some protein. And as you can imagine, like putrefaction of protein is no bueno. And so I think a lot of people need to understand, like at some point reintroduction of some degree of fiber is going to be very beneficial. And so I think it goes back to when someone tells me I don't tolerate any fiber, I'm like, what is going on in your microbiome? Because you should be capable, those microbes should be capable of digesting and fermenting some fiber.

Speaker 6:
[31:16] I just saw this post that RFK does a carnivore diet plus ferments and I'm like, oh, that's why he's doing it.

Speaker 5:
[31:24] Yeah, so I think it's really interesting. And certainly some of my colleagues have told me about patients who've been like carnivore for two years, five years, ten years, how they suddenly start having issues with, they're not, you know, they're not producing certain keystone bacteria in the absence of fiber.

Speaker 6:
[31:39] And so look at those microbiomes, they're like, I don't know how long it would take to get to the problem area.

Speaker 5:
[31:44] They start losing insulin sensitivity. Like he I interviewed one who said I just he's like, I've got a handful of carnivores and they're otherwise metabolically healthy on paper. But all of a sudden they start slip sliding into insulin resistance. And he's like, I think it's time to start reintroducing some fiber since when you're just eating meat, meat, high fat meat usually. Yeah, I'm like, I yeah, I could not imagine. So I think it always goes back to I think certain diets can be therapeutically. If you go from a standard American diet to a vegan diet, obviously you're going to have benefits.

Speaker 6:
[32:15] Standard American diet to any diet.

Speaker 5:
[32:16] Right. It's going to be better. But the goal is not to stay on that forever. It's to kind of get back to a more omnivorous diet.

Speaker 6:
[32:23] Yes, I'm totally with you with that. Why do you think that there are so many high-performing, health-conscious women, I mean, women that are like watching all the shows, reading everything, doing all the right things, and they're still struggling? They're struggling with weight, struggling with digestion, energy. What's going on?

Speaker 5:
[32:42] I think chronic or significant childhood events have a way of unwinding in perimenopause. You know, whatever adaptive patterns someone has created to be able to deal with what they experienced as a child or young adult becomes very maladaptive at some point. And I say this lovingly as someone who has an A score of nine. I have quite a high A score. And so in perimenopause, the wheel fell off the bus and it has a lot to do with these changes in hormones. All of a sudden, you know, whatever adaptive strategies you had before, it's like it's suddenly like the getting up early in the morning and forcing yourself through a workout and not dealing with your stress. And all of a sudden, these things start to come out. The autoimmune conditions really become problematic. So I think for a lot of people, underlying trauma and stress is at the basis for a lot of issues that I see in women in middle age that are doing all the other work and then not understanding that complex inner relationship. Think about how chronic stress and trauma rewires your autonomic nervous system. So suddenly you have someone who has a kind of sympathetic dominant state where they have elevated cortisol. Cortisol is not a bad hormone. It gets such a bad rap.

Speaker 6:
[33:54] I'm so sick of the exercise cortisol situation online.

Speaker 5:
[33:59] So thank you. It's like hormetic stress. But understanding that if stress is persistent and bothersome over time, what does cortisol do it? Catabolic, so it breaks down muscle. It impacts your immune system. You're going to be more susceptible to opportunistic infections, more likely to develop leaky guts. I mean, cortisol can be caustic over time. And so I think for a lot of people, they don't understand how that kind of rewires your nervous system and also impacts your health on such a significant level. So I think this is my working hypothesis. There are a lot of women in perimenopause and menopause that suddenly that trauma that they suppressed, they pretended wasn't there, avails itself. I think this contributes to a lot of midlife divorces. I think it also contributes to a lot of health problems that women experience. So I would say it is not just the gut health piece that's not being addressed. I would also say on the other side of that is this chronic trauma piece that is not being looked at. And I think even with all the experts that I know you and I have had on our podcast, no one's really speaking to that. And yet I think it is something that is really pervasive and corrosive. And if you don't deal with your shit, it is going to come back to get you.

Speaker 6:
[35:10] Stinky. I'll link to Amy Apigee and we've had her on a couple of times. But it makes me think of this. I literally said this day on a podcast, I said, if I could go back and tell my younger self, it would be learn how to manage your stress. Before you get into perimenopause. Because if you don't, guess what? And so that's just taking it to the next level. I had an ACE score of six, and I have not met someone with a nine, and maybe tell someone what that means. Because they might go, oh.

Speaker 5:
[35:39] Yeah, so I think when we talk about trauma, I think most of us acknowledge, and I trained in inner city Baltimore, so I saw murder, rape, suicide. I mean, horrible things that we, there's no one's going to question that that is traumatizing. But I'm really speaking to the little t trauma, the insidious stuff, the addiction, neglect, whether it's emotional or physical, other types of stressors, loneliness or bullying. And it's this kind of cumulative long-term effect of these things that can really impact us. And so certainly for me, in my childhood, I had an alcoholic parent who was on the spectrum.

Speaker 6:
[36:15] I think we all had alcoholic parents in our age range.

Speaker 5:
[36:17] Yes, alcoholic parents.

Speaker 6:
[36:18] Tim and I talk about this.

Speaker 5:
[36:20] And a narcissistic mother. And so growing up in that environment, the way that I adapted was to be like the good kid. So I got good grades and I was popular and I never gave my parents a problem. But it gets to a point that's very heavy to hold for a long period of time. And so I think for those of us that have experienced those things, we adapt to our environments. Probably why I became a nurse and later a nurse practitioner, because I wanted to help take care of others. And so this service to others kind of mentality. I think for so many people listening, whether you experienced overt neglect or other things, I think it imprints us and it becomes much harder to wear that mask as we get older. The mask comes down in the absence of hormones. Estrogen is a people-pleasing hormone. I can tell you as a reform people pleaser, I don't know how I ever survived in the absence of that degree of estrogen that I had when I was still in traditional allopathic medicine. But I think for a lot of people, the mask comes off in perimenopause. People find their voice and suddenly they really start standing up for themselves in a way that I think can be very positive and uplifting, it doesn't have to be negative. But you have to put the work in. And so I think this is that time where people have to put the work in.

Speaker 6:
[37:33] If you're that busy, stressed midlife woman, and now the mask is coming down, what would move the needle fastest to get you back into some kind of homeostasis?

Speaker 5:
[37:44] Yeah, I would say first and foremost, you got to sleep. That's usually the first thing that we're addressing. You need to find some form of stress management that you can do consistently. And what might work for you and I may not work for someone else. Whether that's putting your feet in the earth, whether it's getting the connection to nature in the morning, whether it's taking a walk.

Speaker 6:
[38:01] Dogs.

Speaker 5:
[38:01] Yes, dogs. Between us both, we have six dogs. Learning how to say no. Like how hard is it, is it people pleased or know how to say no and not explain yourself?

Speaker 6:
[38:10] You know, when estrogen comes down, you say no.

Speaker 5:
[38:12] To everything.

Speaker 6:
[38:13] Like it's that beautiful switch that once these things come down, even with hormone replacement, they're not the same.

Speaker 5:
[38:19] Nope.

Speaker 6:
[38:19] And all of a sudden you're like, oh, you don't like me? Don't care. No, I'm not going to go there. Just because you asked me.

Speaker 5:
[38:25] Yeah. Doesn't work that way.

Speaker 6:
[38:27] Don't need to.

Speaker 5:
[38:28] Yeah. But I mean, I think having boundaries is a way to preserve your sanity and your stress management. I think other things that I think about that are kind of like low-lying fruit, like learning how to eat less often. You know, we as a nation eat, you know, anywhere from seven to 10 times a day. It's like, you don't have to intermittent fast, even 12 or 13 hours of digestive rest. Those are simple things that people can do up front. Well, simple in that I'm saying it is simple. Sometimes the sleep piece is elusive and takes a while to tease out. But I think for a lot of individuals, I'm not talking about buying a gadget or doing some complicated diet.

Speaker 6:
[39:00] Although I've been using this pulsetto.

Speaker 5:
[39:02] I love pulsetto. I'm obsessed with this thing. You know, did it impact your HRV? It's the only thing I've ever used. My HRV's gone up.

Speaker 6:
[39:08] Yeah, it's the, I will tell you I've tried all the gadgets because they send me all the gadgets. I'm like, this didn't do a thing. And I'm so hopeful. I'm like, oh, please do something. This one does something.

Speaker 5:
[39:18] My HRV has gone up, which is what I've been telling people. I'm like, I was almost hesitant to say anything because I didn't know about it when I wrote my book. That's number one. Number two, I was like, I'm cautiously optimistic. Like, oh my God. And I'm someone that I know when my HRV goes down because it impacts everything else. But I think for a lot of people, they want us to say a gadget.

Speaker 6:
[39:41] You can do breath work, whatever the thing like you said.

Speaker 5:
[39:43] Box breathing. Like, instead of doing crossfit six days a week with no, or Orange Theory Fitness six days a week with no recovery, like, learn how to take a slow-fo yoga class or get outside and walk in nature. Like, I'm talking about simple things that we know on a very basic level are going to improve your quality of life but are also going to have a positive net impact on the microbiome. This is before we even get to complicated stuff. I mean, I run the gamut in the book. I mean, I spent a concerted effort to make sure it ran from simple free stuff all the way up to interventions that involve other experts and hiring people to help you and stuff like that.

Speaker 6:
[40:20] So let's deeper dive on Estrobalone.

Speaker 5:
[40:23] So this is your estrogen processing center of the microbiome. It is really important. It's important both in before menopause and after, but it's where your body, the liver is this primary site to break down things that you're supposed to. I'm going to oversimplify things, but to break it into water soluble compounds where it goes to the gut, and it's supposed to get packaged up like a present and pooped out of your body. But what can happen is, if you don't have the right microbiome constituency, you're eating a garbage diet, you're super stressed, your estrogen can get recirculated. These are the symptoms that make women really unhappy in perimenopause. This is when breast tenderness, weight loss resistance, brain fog, rashes, digestive concerns. I mean, it runs the gamut. For me, from my perspective, if you understand that the estroblom is nurtured by the way we manage our lifestyle and the types of foods that we eat and the way we manage our stress, we've talked about stress like this Goldilocks effect of stress, like beneficial stress, right amount, right time, versus chronic stress, and how the estroblom is so important for managing and mitigating how we excrete our estrogen. And here's the thing, even in menopause, even if you're on HRT, if you're exposed to a lot of estrogen-mimicking chemicals in your environment, personal care products or food, that can throw off the estroblom. So it does matter what we use in our personal lives. It is not irrelevant. It is not woo-woo. We know that these estrogen-mimicking chemicals can be a hundred or even up to a thousand times more potent than the hormone itself. So if you think it's not important, I always remind people like, don't be paranoid, but just make conscientious efforts when you're purchasing deodorant or you are drinking your water. And I acknowledge like when I travel through airports, I don't stress about getting a bottle of water. It's like, yes, I'm exposed to some microplastics, but I need the hydration and I'm not going to stress about it. But I think for a lot of people, they assume it's just irrelevant.

Speaker 6:
[42:14] Would you be looking at, say, a urine hormone test? Like how would you know if this is working correctly?

Speaker 5:
[42:21] Yeah, I mean, I would say we based it off of symptoms, but there's also in stool tests and we look at things like beta glucuronidase, which is important enzyme that goes in and kind of helps break down the estrogen. And if it's elevated, it can be a sign that maybe things are not optimal. I think for a lot of people, it's really just getting a sense of symptoms. And then we can look at blood work. Are they metabolizing things properly? But that stool testing piece, I think, can be very important. And then I would say that is where I think stool testing can be really helpful. And it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has to run out and get a stool test. But I do think having a sense of whether or not the estrobalome, I'm laughing, because someone the other day called estrobalome. And I was like trying so hard not to laugh when I was talking to this person. I was like, I get it. It's kind of an awkward way of describing the estrogen processing center of the gut microbiome.

Speaker 6:
[43:06] So they called it that the entire time. It's sort of like someone has food in their teeth and you didn't tell them.

Speaker 5:
[43:10] I was like trying so hard. I was like, it makes me think of baloney. And I was like trying to, I was trying very hard not to like correct them. I was like afterwards, I was like, it's estrobalome. They're like, oh, I thought it was estrobalome.

Speaker 6:
[43:20] It actually is easier to pronounce estrobalome. Anyway, if you could delete one piece of a device that women have been given about menopause, what would it be and what would you replace it with?

Speaker 5:
[43:30] I think I would encourage women to be their own best advocate. So this kind of patriarchal environment where you go to your provider and they tell you what to do.

Speaker 6:
[43:40] And all the women are being that way. It's like, come on women.

Speaker 5:
[43:43] Yeah. I mean, it goes, and it can even be from female providers. They go and they don't, their providers don't want to be challenged. They don't want to be questioned. I'm like, aren't those days behind us? So I think that if you are a middle-aged woman and you're seeking really good care and the person that you are seeing is not providing the care that you want, I give you permission to fire them. I've done it. I did it.

Speaker 6:
[44:05] You know, the old days where you had an insurance plan and you had to go to this person and you're like, that is not, you are now hiring someone who's going to be-

Speaker 5:
[44:13] It's a free agency.

Speaker 6:
[44:13] Yeah. It's like the COO of your health. You're the CEO. You better choose wisely. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[44:19] No, I would be the first person to say that my husband had a health care hiccup in 2024. There was someone who really dropped the ball for him. And I recall having a conversation with this person. And I was like, I'm not going to report you to the medical board, but I am going to make it really clear that what you did was completely beyond the standard- wasn't even within the standard of care. And so I think for a lot of individuals, I share this to say even as a licensed medical professional, it has happened to me and my family. And every woman listening deserves to have really good care. So I would say throw it out the window that you think you have to stick with that GYN, who was great when they delivered your babies and was great with postpartum care, but now doesn't know his butt from anything else and is trying to mansplain you about how to manage hormones and how you have to accept things as they are. You need to find someone that is compassionate, kind, knowledgeable.

Speaker 6:
[45:08] That was the other wild thing to hear, that this was not really part of med school training for the OBGYNs. I'm like, what?

Speaker 5:
[45:15] None of us were trained. And that's the really sad thing, is that I think the explosion of interest and training that's going on now, I think it's changing for people who are med students now. But you have people for 25, 30 plus years that were getting no information and they're expected to know through the lens of their particular field. Like the ophthalmologists, they weren't trained about menopause. Like what happens?

Speaker 6:
[45:41] I mean, my dentist was the one who knew I was in menopause. My dentist, a male dentist.

Speaker 5:
[45:46] What a fantastic man.

Speaker 6:
[45:47] Amazing.

Speaker 5:
[45:48] We should celebrate him.

Speaker 6:
[45:49] Periodontist and yeah, home desert. Craig Conroe, we love you. Yeah, literally, I walk in, I go, my gums are bleeding. He goes, low estrogen. What?

Speaker 5:
[45:59] Wow. Wow. No, that's incredible.

Speaker 6:
[46:02] Yeah. Women in midlife are often told, usually told to accept decline as inevitable. And you hear this with popular people on podcasts. And I think from what I've heard from you is that you're not agreeing with this.

Speaker 2:
[46:16] No.

Speaker 6:
[46:16] You should reject this. And why?

Speaker 5:
[46:19] Women deserve to have a high quality of life throughout their lifetime, full stop. And this mindset or thought process that as we age, we have to accept aches and pains, we have to accept poor sleep, we have to accept crappy digestion, we have to accept that we don't think quite as clearly, we don't have a sex life anymore. I just think that that further contributes to this kind of ageism. You know, there's so much focus on young people, which I think in many ways. I mean, you have sons, I have sons, I'm happy there's a focus on young people. But by the same token, like, we all want a high quality of life. Like, why would we accept things any differently? And so I usually cry BS. I'm like, first of all, that's bullshit. Like, no one should have to accept that they have this eventual decline. And even people that I won't name anymore that talk about this marginal decade.

Speaker 6:
[47:10] I'm like, I'm gonna have a marginal month. My mom had a marginal month. And my grandmother had a marginal like week. And my dog had a marginal month. So I'm like going, there's no marginal decade. And when you tell these types of things, and for what we're talking about is this idea that, you know, you're gonna have this slow decline that's in the last 10 years of your life. You're gonna be all this stuff. And if people hear that, then they start to build that into their, you know, limiting beliefs. So I just do not, I was like, you know what? And then I kept hearing, you'll be at your peak in your 30s. I go, what if I could be in my peak at 60? That's why when I went and I was like, I'm gonna go get a DEXA scan, and I'm gonna go, what I knew where I was in my 20s, I'm going right back to that and better. And you can.

Speaker 5:
[47:57] You can, you absolutely can. Well, I'll tell you like, JJ, because I'm short, when I fly.

Speaker 6:
[48:03] You are?

Speaker 5:
[48:04] Yeah, only five foot three. But it's interesting, when I fly, for whatever reason, chivalrous men always want to help me get my suitcase up or down.

Speaker 6:
[48:12] They try to help me with my suitcase.

Speaker 5:
[48:13] And so I always, and so yesterday, I said to the very nice man, I said, thank you so much, but I need to be able to continue doing this. And he was like, okay. He's like, I just always offer. I was like, I appreciate that. I'm so appreciative. But I still have to be able to lift my suitcase and carry my stuff and do all these things because I don't want to be a frail old lady. I want to be a strong old lady. Well, and it's interesting, those body composition readings, I think are incredibly valuable because sometimes our weight goes up because we put muscle on, which is great. That should be celebrated. But yet women have been so conditioned that that number on the scale is so representative of their self-worth. And I think that that in and of itself is incredibly disruptive and destructive.

Speaker 6:
[48:54] That's my goal to change that. That's like my biggest legacy work is that we will realize that the scale has single-handedly destroyed more women's metabolic and mental health than any other tool out there. And that we have to only look at body composition, we have to celebrate increasing fat-free mass and muscle strength, and that we do need to start to focus on being powerful. And it's great for women to be powerful.

Speaker 5:
[49:17] Yeah. Well, I mean, powerful emotionally, mentally and physically.

Speaker 6:
[49:21] It all goes together. It all does. Okay, let's go through them some speed rounds before we do that. And these you get to like, first thing that comes to mind. But before that, I just want to give one kind of tie a bow on it for the woman listening today, who feels like her body is not, it's turned against her. It's not what she knew, doesn't recognize it. Her digestion, her metabolism, her energy. What's the one truth you want her to understand so she can take her power back?

Speaker 5:
[49:47] Oh, I think first and foremost, you are your own best detective. So the N of one, the power of N of one, trying different interventions personally, and then in conjunction with your medical provider is one of the most potent ways to be able to move yourself through this. I feel like I've had at least two episodes over the last 10 years, where I was like, what is going on? I don't understand. And so through that kind of N of one, figuring out like different types of foods, try different types of sleep measures, try different types of hormones. Maybe instead of transdermal estradiol, you need oral estradiol. Maybe instead of the oral micronized progesterone, you need the sustained release version, or maybe you need peptides. I mean, there's so many interventions, and we could talk for days about GLP-1s and HRT, but I think for a lot of individuals, it's just the reaffirming of knowing there are answers for you out there. Don't stop with one provider telling you that you have to accept things as they are. That's not true. And the other thing is lean into how you feel with different interventions.

Speaker 6:
[50:47] If someone listening feels overwhelmed, what's the first thing you'd have her do tomorrow morning to support her gut?

Speaker 5:
[50:53] I would ensure that they get outside and get some sunlight on their retinas because that will set up sleep and sleep and your microbiome. The health of your microbiome is largely dependent on your sleep quality.

Speaker 6:
[51:03] What's one habit that's wrecking women's gut health in midlife that they think is actually helping?

Speaker 5:
[51:09] Alcohol.

Speaker 6:
[51:10] Do people really think at this point that alcohol is helping their gut?

Speaker 5:
[51:13] I think that there is a huge mommy drinking culture and their thought process, I'm stressed, I'm going to drink alcohol, it's going to make it better.

Speaker 6:
[51:21] What's the most underrated thing women can do for their metabolism through their gut?

Speaker 5:
[51:26] I would say that number one, track your fiber intake and slowly increase it.

Speaker 6:
[51:32] What's something about menopause and gut health that still surprises you even after all of your clinical experience?

Speaker 5:
[51:39] The influence of stress and trauma.

Speaker 6:
[51:41] If you could upgrade just one daily habit to improve gut health, what would it be?

Speaker 5:
[51:46] I've already said fiber, so obviously I'm not going to do that. I would say take four to five deep breaths before you consume a meal so that your body gets in a parasympathetic state because many people don't realize is that that parasympathetic state is what allows your body to secrete hydrochloric acid, adequate digestive enzymes, also bile which helps break down and emulsify fat. So something that simple can be very impactful.

Speaker 6:
[52:08] And for people who are wanting to learn more, tell them everywhere you are. I'm going to put this all at jjvirgin.com/menopausegut for your amazing book that people can grab anywhere and everywhere and at Amazon, but where can they find you?

Speaker 5:
[52:22] Yeah, probably easiest to go to my website. www.synthiathurlow.com. You'll get access to my book there, my podcast, Everyday Wellness, all of my social media links. And I have been plugging Substack because Substack has become this like new way of expressing opinions on things that I really love. And I've been unpacking things in a lot more depth than anywhere else on Substack. So you definitely want to check that out.

Speaker 6:
[52:45] Cool. All right. We will put that all in the links and grab your copy of The Menopause Gut. Thank you so much.

Speaker 5:
[52:52] Thanks for having me.

Speaker 6:
[52:54] One thing people forget about on their fat loss journey is digestion. When you're changing what you're eating, how much you're eating, and when you're eating, your digestion changes too. You may be feeling any of these things. You feel backed up, a little bloated after your meals, maybe some cramping or just overall. One of the foundational things that I recommend during this time to support your gut is sodium butyrate. So what is sodium butyrate? So butyrate is a short-chain fatty acid that's produced by your beneficial gut bacteria, and it's actually one of the primary nutrients for all of the cells that line your gut. When those gut cells are supported, digestion, comfort, regularity, it all works better, and that is why I added body bio, butyrate to my daily routine. If you're in the process of upgrading what you're eating, how you're eating, when you're eating, head over to bodybio.com. Or slash jjvirgin to start supporting your gut today. Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can use to look and feel your best and be built to last. Also, I'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts on the podcast. Here's how. First, subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest review. Second, take a screenshot of your review. And third, text it to 813-565-2627. That's 813-565-2627. When you do, I'll reply using my brand new Virtual JJ. It's my on-demand virtual self built from my books, talks, and years of experience so I can interact with you directly. You'll make my day and I can't wait to hear from you. Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch you on the next episode. Hey, JJ here. And just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness, and nutritional information. That's designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes. The use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk.