transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Welcome back to another episode of Conversations with Cam, and I know that we have had on some major guests this year, okay? Like, it has not lost on me. I am so honored and so proud of this show, but I honestly think today may be the guest that you all want the most, because she is the mysterious older sister that everyone has questions about. Today, we are joined by my older sister, Madi. And it's time for her to have her solo, okay? Like, Lucy is not here to take over. No, I'm just kidding, Lucy, I love you. But last time Madi was on, it was with Lucy as her kind of like crutch, because she was just like, I don't know if I want to do this. And now she's here better than ever by herself. Everyone was always asking me, where is Madi? Why is it Madi there? Where's your older sister? We get into this in this episode, and it's something that I have always had feelings around, and I guess she doesn't. Maybe because she's unaware of all the messages I get asking this, but I'm with her all the freaking time. I think people just forget that some people enjoy their privacy. And I've always been very conscious of the fact that not everyone in my life chose this kind of public lifestyle, and I respect that. So I think people forget that the lens of which they're consuming my life through is literally just a snippet of what I'm doing and what I choose to share. And we talk all about this, but the reality is that I'm with her a fuck ton. She's just not in my content. In this episode, we talk about that, plus more on our sister dynamics. We talk about motherhood, juggling her corporate job, her experience with the transition from one to two kids, postpartum, and so much more. We also get into what it's like raising our kids at the same time, especially close to each other. And I have to say that living near your sister, Lucy, is so special, and getting to create those memories with our kids alongside each other is something that I will never take for granted. So, Lucy, I know this will be one episode you might listen to, just a reminder of where Madi and I live. Family clearly means a lot to me, and that is also why I'm in my roller rabbits, and so excited about today's sponsor, and why they are the perfect brand to sponsor today's episode. Roller Rabbit is a multi-generational brand rooted in family, togetherness, and joyful moments spent together. I love Roller Rabbit. You have seen me in my blue heart pajamas hundreds and hundreds of times over the past, I don't know, how long have I been on Instagram? Eight years? That's crazy. We love and ride or die for Roller Rabbit in this house. This is my favorite pair, but as you know, Roller Rabbit is known for iconic sleepwear that brings comfort to everyday life, which is exactly what I am living in right now as a pregnant mom. And yes, mine still fit me pregnant. You know why? Because these are low rise and you put them under the bump and the shirt is still covering it. And even when it's not, I won't care. I will be in them. I'm in them all the time. And my favorite part is that the boys have matching pairs and they love nothing more than when it's pajama time after bath or shower. And I put them in their matching pairs and then I run out in mine. They just get so excited. They also have collections for ready-to-wear, accessories, home, and more. And I'm already dreaming of mornings at the beach, especially in our matching pajama sets, because that's just like my favorite time to be in matching PJs. I don't know. Something about the Jersey Shore. Can't explain it. And Roller Rabbit's first summer drop lands this week. So get ready because it is almost our time to shine. My summer people, I see you, I am you. It's almost our time. We are so close. Visit rollerrabbit.com. Yes, that is hard for me with the speech impediment. And take 20% off your purchase of $150 or more with code CAM20 at checkout. Again, that's rollerrabbit.com with code CAM20 for 20% off your order of $150 or more. Terms and exclusions may apply. Now, let's get into it. It's time for the mystery sister, everyone's most requested guest, Madison. Hey girl.

Speaker 2:
[04:40] Hey girl, hey.

Speaker 1:
[04:40] Hey girl. Oh, don't let me forget, Carly, I wanna do the TikTok. Who are you? After. Sure, sure, sure.

Speaker 2:
[04:46] Definitely know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1:
[04:47] You have no idea, I know. So, I wanna start, everyone is like...

Speaker 2:
[04:53] Give the people what they want.

Speaker 1:
[04:54] Who is this bitch? Well, it's a mix of how did you get her to agree to this? Even though you have been on.

Speaker 2:
[05:00] Technically, yes.

Speaker 1:
[05:01] Technically, you came on with Lucy.

Speaker 2:
[05:02] Lucy was like my cover.

Speaker 1:
[05:04] Yeah, you were like, I will only do it with Lucy so that she can just kind of run with it. But we've been saying that you would come back on alone.

Speaker 2:
[05:13] I have been saying this for years, and here I am.

Speaker 1:
[05:16] So, thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you. I'll give you a cut. Thanks. And people wanna know, you're the secretive sister.

Speaker 2:
[05:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[05:26] And you know this.

Speaker 2:
[05:27] Which is funny, because I'm not in life.

Speaker 1:
[05:29] In real life. Yeah. But you know this, that I get messages all the time if I mention an older sister or something, and everyone's like, you have an older sister? Or it's always, where's Madi? Where's Madi? Where's Madi? Why isn't Madi there? Or are you ever with your older sister? And I think this is where people forget that life exists outside of the lens that they see.

Speaker 2:
[05:50] Our social relationship is trippy.

Speaker 1:
[05:52] Trippy. That life exists outside of what you see in my, even if I post so many stories a day, that's maybe 10 minutes of stories. Think about how many minutes there are in a day.

Speaker 2:
[06:05] Yeah, a whole life.

Speaker 1:
[06:06] And so the two tough things I get are like, do you ever see your in-laws? And I'm like, I'm with them all the time. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[06:13] Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 1:
[06:14] Or like, how does it feel that you're with your family so much more than your in-laws? I'm like, I'm with my in-laws all the time. But I just, when I'm with them, I'm not posting it. And same with you, because you are more of a private person, and you would just prefer not to be in my videos. Which is fair. And I'm like, it bothers me when people say this, because do you forget that like, not everyone wants this?

Speaker 2:
[06:35] Yeah, but like, do you care?

Speaker 1:
[06:37] Sometimes I feel defensive.

Speaker 2:
[06:39] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[06:39] Of you.

Speaker 2:
[06:40] Yeah, oh, I don't care.

Speaker 1:
[06:42] Okay, then whatever.

Speaker 2:
[06:44] I'm here, I exist.

Speaker 1:
[06:45] No, I know, I just don't want, I get annoyed when people are like, oh, yeah, you're always with your little sister. I'm like, I'm actually with my older sister, probably more.

Speaker 2:
[06:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:54] I probably see you more than I see Lucy.

Speaker 2:
[06:56] You probably do see me more frequently, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:58] So I don't know. I get a little bit just like, oh my God, what the doesn't matter?

Speaker 2:
[07:03] You just invite Lucy down to the Bahamas more.

Speaker 1:
[07:05] Okay. We talk about this in Lucy's episode. You would not have ever booked a flight for the next day.

Speaker 3:
[07:13] That's what happened.

Speaker 1:
[07:14] I've been going through a lot. You have two kids. If I called you and I said, Madi, can you get on a flight tomorrow for the weekend to the Bahamas?

Speaker 3:
[07:23] There is zero chance in hell.

Speaker 1:
[07:27] Madi, you're fucking kidding me. I love you so much. There's zero chance you would have.

Speaker 2:
[07:33] Okay, fine. I was just in a state where I really needed a vacation.

Speaker 1:
[07:37] I'm really sorry. You would have had to also stay in the room with my kids one night.

Speaker 2:
[07:42] You know, I really want to see your kid.

Speaker 1:
[07:44] Specifically one kid. No, I know you want to see my younger son.

Speaker 2:
[07:47] I adore both of your children, but your youngest son is in that stage.

Speaker 1:
[07:52] No, he's also just like-

Speaker 2:
[07:55] He reminds me so much of my son when he was about age.

Speaker 1:
[07:58] Yeah, and he's me. Like watching my two kids is like watching us. I'm watching you and me.

Speaker 2:
[08:03] I was not that much of a rule follower, was I?

Speaker 1:
[08:07] I don't really necessarily remember that. Maybe it's like watching Carly and Marin too. Carly wasn't alive. But like, you were so- In all the videos of us doing our dances, you're like, okay, everyone, please line up here. We're going to put on our show.

Speaker 3:
[08:22] Like you were first child.

Speaker 1:
[08:25] Yeah. And I have the epitome of a first and a second. And I watched my second like beat up on my first.

Speaker 3:
[08:31] And I'm like, this is me and Madi.

Speaker 1:
[08:34] Okay. So let's get into- Really, it's all listener questions. Yeah, thank you. We're serious around here, you know?

Speaker 2:
[08:45] Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1:
[08:46] We built out a studio. We got our equipment. Meet my producer. I don't know if you've ever met her before.

Speaker 2:
[08:51] Never met you, never heard of you.

Speaker 1:
[08:53] Okay. All of these are listener questions, but things that I think would make a good episode. So I kind of organized them. We did our research, some would say.

Speaker 3:
[09:03] I'm kidding.

Speaker 1:
[09:04] Let's get into like first sisterhood.

Speaker 2:
[09:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[09:07] Of the traveling pants.

Speaker 3:
[09:09] No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 1:
[09:10] It's okay, everyone does it. All right. As the eldest daughter, how is your dynamic or do you feel your dynamic is different with our parents than ours?

Speaker 2:
[09:23] Like my relationship with mom and dad?

Speaker 1:
[09:25] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[09:26] Versus yours?

Speaker 1:
[09:27] Or Lucy's.

Speaker 2:
[09:27] Lucy's with mom and dad?

Speaker 1:
[09:28] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[09:29] I mean, I got the best of both. Now that I'm a parent, like my first born had so much of me and my second born has like 10 percent, maybe 2 percent of my brain space.

Speaker 1:
[09:48] I think you know that a lot.

Speaker 2:
[09:49] I, now that I have two kids, we talk about this. I'm like, wow, mom and dad like totally loved me more.

Speaker 1:
[09:58] So, I remember calling mom and being, I was so stressed, I know you know this. I was so stressed about loving a second.

Speaker 2:
[10:04] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[10:05] And I remember calling mom and being like, there's just no way you love me as much as you love Madi. And she was like, you figure it out. You do. Your heart grows.

Speaker 1:
[10:15] And I was like, it won't before I gave birth. And it is true. I think you love and it's okay. It's a fucking flag.

Speaker 3:
[10:22] You have different...

Speaker 1:
[10:23] It's a different love, but it's equal. But it is... It's different.

Speaker 2:
[10:27] It's more that like I've poured so much into my firstborn.

Speaker 1:
[10:31] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[10:32] And I have like all of this guilt that I'm not pouring the same amount or quality into my secondborn.

Speaker 1:
[10:41] Yeah. And I wonder if you feel that more than I feel it because I'm a secondborn who loves their relationship with their parents. So like I think about this a lot.

Speaker 2:
[10:51] That's a good point. I'm like, she must hate me.

Speaker 1:
[10:54] I feel like I thought about this a lot because I have the same guilt, especially early on with my second, where I was like, he's not getting nearly as much one-on-one attention or focus. Still isn't. And he never will. And like, yeah, sorry, that's the reality.

Speaker 2:
[11:12] No, it's true.

Speaker 1:
[11:13] But as a second, and I posted a whole video about this and people were like eating me in the comments and being like, you're poor second born when he sees this video.

Speaker 3:
[11:21] And I was like, but people are such assholes.

Speaker 1:
[11:24] But I'm like, but I'm a second. And I love my relationship with my parents.

Speaker 3:
[11:29] So I think that that has allowed me to be like, he'll be fine.

Speaker 1:
[11:34] He knows I love him.

Speaker 2:
[11:35] And like logically, I can be like, you have a wonderful relationship with mom and dad. Lucy does too. But you're the first. But it's like, I'm the first. So I like know that I got more attention.

Speaker 1:
[11:45] And I feel that way now adding a third. Like, will he be the forgotten? And I'm like, no, I'm a middle. And I think there's something very special of being a middle child of a middle child, which I was.

Speaker 2:
[11:55] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[11:55] And he will be too.

Speaker 2:
[11:56] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[11:58] Okay, so you feel you got the best of mom and dad. I mean, you definitely got the most attention.

Speaker 2:
[12:02] I definitely got the most time with dad.

Speaker 1:
[12:05] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[12:06] Because dad's job really kind of like kicked into high gear after we moved.

Speaker 1:
[12:13] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[12:13] It was like six.

Speaker 1:
[12:14] You don't remember any of that, do you? No, before that.

Speaker 2:
[12:17] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[12:18] You remember living in New York?

Speaker 2:
[12:20] Do you not remember the story I told where I was walking on the Upper East Side, and I walked by this church, and I was like, why do I know this church? This is so strange. Like, we are not religious. We never grew up going to church. And I was so confused. I was like, I know this. I feel home. And I looked at the placard, and it was my nursery school that I went to. That is crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[12:46] I would love to have a feeling like that.

Speaker 2:
[12:47] It was so cool. I was like, wow, I'm such a fucking New Yorker.

Speaker 1:
[12:50] You are such a New Yorker. Okay, so I agree that you got the best of mom and dad. And I think our relationships very much differ now. They're not a little bit more similar now. I'm more in constant communication with mom.

Speaker 2:
[13:03] So am I. Are you? Maybe a little.

Speaker 1:
[13:06] Okay. I just feel like we're up each other's ass all day long.

Speaker 2:
[13:11] What do you mean? I guess I collared once or twice a day.

Speaker 1:
[13:14] Oh, okay. Wow. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[13:16] Yeah. I'm your daughter.

Speaker 1:
[13:18] God.

Speaker 3:
[13:19] Have you always been like that?

Speaker 2:
[13:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:21] Okay. Yeah, we talk all the time too.

Speaker 2:
[13:24] Do you FaceTime dad too?

Speaker 1:
[13:26] Well, they're together. I FaceTime them in the morning.

Speaker 2:
[13:28] No, but like I FaceTime dad.

Speaker 1:
[13:29] Individually? Yeah, mom doesn't answer, I FaceTime dad.

Speaker 2:
[13:32] No, like dad and I FaceTime each other.

Speaker 3:
[13:35] Sure, dad FaceTimes me this morning. Like, but let me just say, to be very clear, they FaceTime me to talk to my children.

Speaker 1:
[13:44] Yeah, like dad does not FaceTime me in the middle of the day when I'm not with my kids.

Speaker 3:
[13:50] So he FaceTimes you.

Speaker 2:
[13:51] I got a FaceTime yesterday from dad.

Speaker 1:
[13:52] No, he FaceTimes me when I'm with my children. But you've always had a different relationship with dad.

Speaker 2:
[13:57] Yeah, I always have, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:59] And I think mom and I are so similar. I don't know if you and dad are similar, but you've always had like a very unique bond.

Speaker 2:
[14:06] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[14:08] Can we talk about sister dynamics? And people were specifically wondering about your age gap with Lucy. Because you guys are eight years apart, which is a decent age gap, especially in today's world.

Speaker 2:
[14:21] Yes, for sure. So I was eight years old when Lucy was born. I vividly remember when she was born.

Speaker 1:
[14:27] So do I. We were at Beansboro.

Speaker 2:
[14:29] Come on, bring it in the call.

Speaker 1:
[14:30] They called the lifeguard phone. And they were like, did we not know it was going to be a girl? Because I remember them saying, it's a girl. Nana was with us, I think.

Speaker 2:
[14:42] I think in the beginning, it was really fun because when you're like an eight, nine, 10 year old girl, you're like into babysitting and babies, and it was cute and it was super fun. I loved it. And then by the time I was like a fucking preteen, and I'm think about it, I'm 14 and she's six trying to come hang out with my friends. I'm like, get out of my room.

Speaker 1:
[15:03] I mean, same. I used to bribe her with rocks and lock her in dad's closet.

Speaker 2:
[15:07] You're so mean. But I think high school was tough because I was at a school where I was at school until 10 p.m. at night all the time and would come home super late.

Speaker 1:
[15:20] So weird.

Speaker 2:
[15:20] And so I never saw Lucy.

Speaker 1:
[15:21] She was a day student at a boarding school, and that whole thing is so weird to think about.

Speaker 2:
[15:25] That's the best. And so I never saw Lucy. And then I went to college. And I feel like that was really hard because we were just living completely separate, and not separate. Like we were in such different phases of our lives.

Speaker 1:
[15:40] And I honestly think that that's only, I think that's still, not to speak for you guys, but I think that's still sometimes difficult to navigate with the two of you where I feel like I'm in the middle.

Speaker 2:
[15:51] Well, I feel like once we both had kids, we were like, oh, okay, we're in the same phase of life. We can relate on a deeper level. And I'm so jealous of Lucy. She just like sleeps in in the morning. Literally. Oh, no, I'm kidding. I love you, Lucy.

Speaker 1:
[16:09] But you guys just have such different...

Speaker 2:
[16:11] We're still in different phases of our lives.

Speaker 1:
[16:12] You're in different phases of lives, and you have different interests, and you have different generations. Like I feel like that's where I'm kind of the middle, where I can relate to some of the stuff she talks about, not all of it, and we're in very different phases of life. But are my, me and your phase of life...

Speaker 2:
[16:27] It's okay, you guys are cooler.

Speaker 1:
[16:29] I wouldn't say we're cooler. You're older. You are like peak millennial.

Speaker 2:
[16:33] I am peak millennial.

Speaker 1:
[16:35] When she does certain things, you're like, what the fuck are you doing? And sometimes I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? But then also sometimes I'm like, yeah, that looks really cool. I get it.

Speaker 2:
[16:44] What does?

Speaker 1:
[16:45] Just things that she does or wears.

Speaker 2:
[16:47] Oh, what Lucy does.

Speaker 1:
[16:48] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[16:49] Not me. I thought you were like that.

Speaker 3:
[16:52] No, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:
[16:54] Don't require you to shop.

Speaker 2:
[16:57] These all new. Okay. Lucy recommended this shirt.

Speaker 1:
[17:01] Was it what I sent or what she sent? Which one?

Speaker 2:
[17:03] Hers is way better, but Mason. Yours was twice as expensive and not as good.

Speaker 1:
[17:07] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[17:07] Well, I really like it. But you got it cut, I think, on Shop My.

Speaker 1:
[17:10] On Shop My, and Lucy also has her Shop My links. Remember, she sent it to you.

Speaker 2:
[17:14] Yeah. I don't understand the difference between Shop My and Shop My.

Speaker 1:
[17:16] One's a store, one's an affiliate program, but that's fine. Where are these jeans from?

Speaker 2:
[17:20] And these jeans are made well. Where I get all my jeans. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[17:23] Well, Madi historically was literally wearing her middle school clothes up until five years ago.

Speaker 2:
[17:28] Ten years ago.

Speaker 1:
[17:30] I got rid of my middle school clothes, like, when you got pregnant, five years ago.

Speaker 2:
[17:34] Okay?

Speaker 1:
[17:35] You're giving yourself way too much credit.

Speaker 2:
[17:37] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[17:37] So, no, but I just mean, I think the age gap was hard for all of us in different phases. Not you and I, because we're three years apart.

Speaker 2:
[17:44] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[17:45] But with Lucy, I felt that way too.

Speaker 1:
[17:47] And I think I remember being hard when Lucy was in college, and you were so far out of college. You were living like a corporate job, and Lucy was like partying every night, and you were like, why doesn't you call me?

Speaker 2:
[18:01] The only way I could communicate with Lucy at that time was Snapchat. But I didn't use Snapchat at the time, and didn't understand how it works. So the only way I could communicate with Lucy, she wouldn't respond to a call, she wouldn't respond to a text, was through like Snapchat. So I'd have to like take a photo of me and like type out something like, hey girl, miss you. Maybe call your sister once in a while.

Speaker 1:
[18:23] Yes, yeah. So I think that the dynamics with that age gap have been hard in phases, but as we all get older, it's less. And then if and when Lucy chooses to have children, I think it'll change even more because she'll see this whole different side of life that we've been living. On that note, and I know we asked this in the other question, but people also ask this, are you ever jealous of, I think our relationships are very similar and different, but because Lucy's more public on my page, people are like, is Madi jealous of your relationship?

Speaker 2:
[18:55] What do you mean?

Speaker 1:
[18:56] My relationship with Lucy.

Speaker 2:
[18:58] Because of her being on your page?

Speaker 1:
[19:01] Because I think people think that we're more involved in each other's lives because she's on my page. But this is proving my point.

Speaker 2:
[19:08] But what do you, I don't get it.

Speaker 1:
[19:10] This literally proves my point. That I'm just as close with both of them. People literally think that we don't communicate. And I'm like, I speak to Madi all the time. Half of the time, we do have to end our FaceTimes because one kid is freaking out.

Speaker 3:
[19:23] And we're like, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

Speaker 1:
[19:26] Love you, talk to you.

Speaker 2:
[19:27] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:29] I did try to face something the other morning to show you something that my older son really wanted to show your son, but you didn't answer.

Speaker 2:
[19:34] Sorry.

Speaker 1:
[19:35] It's a really cool reading.

Speaker 2:
[19:36] Getting out of the house with two kids is no joke.

Speaker 3:
[19:40] We're gonna get there.

Speaker 2:
[19:41] The fact that you're doing this another time.

Speaker 1:
[19:43] I know. How do you feel about being a part of my public persona?

Speaker 2:
[19:52] I'm here.

Speaker 3:
[19:53] I know.

Speaker 1:
[19:54] But like, what are your emotions around it? Even being here?

Speaker 2:
[19:58] Don't love it.

Speaker 1:
[19:59] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[19:59] I don't mind you being in the spotlight. I only just worry for like safety for you. But like, yeah, aside from that, I don't mind it. I'm not sure if I was always a private person.

Speaker 1:
[20:12] No, I remember there was a switch and you like went through your Instagram and were like, I'm deleting everyone who follows me, except for like 30 people. Okay, but that was like Madi, you don't, you're just going to like have these people delete them that like you went to high school with, that you know, and you were like, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[20:30] But that was more like a, that was less of a privacy thing and more of a social media thing of like, it felt really weird to me of like someone that I've literally never communicated with in the last 15 years, like knows what I do every day if I post on Facebook or social media. Like that's weird to me.

Speaker 1:
[20:45] It's fair.

Speaker 2:
[20:46] So that was weird. Yeah, I have 300 followers on Instagram.

Speaker 1:
[20:49] That's honestly higher than I thought it was going to be.

Speaker 2:
[20:52] Really?

Speaker 1:
[20:53] Kinda.

Speaker 2:
[20:54] Okay, cool. I have 300 followers on Instagram, and I haven't posted on Instagram in two years.

Speaker 1:
[20:59] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[20:59] I go on Instagram on my computer.

Speaker 1:
[21:02] Where are your iPad?

Speaker 2:
[21:03] No, no longer my iPad.

Speaker 1:
[21:04] Oh, so what do you do when you're pretty?

Speaker 2:
[21:06] Because on the iPad, it's too much of like an app, and then I like kind of enjoy it too much. So it's just on my computer. So I log in every day to watch your stories and my husband's stories. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[21:16] You're literally Joe.

Speaker 2:
[21:17] No, literally. The interface is so bad on the computer, so it's not like addictive. I like sometimes like comment or DM, but I haven't posted in two years. But the only thing that I'm upset about is because my feed, no, not my feed. What's the feed? No, not my feed. No, no, no. Like my profile.

Speaker 1:
[21:38] Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:
[21:39] My grid?

Speaker 1:
[21:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[21:40] My grid. Is that a thing? Sure. My grid. My grid has like videos from when my son turned one, when my son turned two, and when my son turned three, and I never made his four year one, and I have another baby that's turning one.

Speaker 1:
[21:56] You honestly made those ever.

Speaker 2:
[21:58] I know, but I love that. I would watch them all the time. I would just watch them all the time, because it made me so happy.

Speaker 1:
[22:03] I know.

Speaker 2:
[22:03] So now I need to somehow like create one. You can just like put it somewhere else.

Speaker 1:
[22:08] You can do that.

Speaker 2:
[22:09] Cool. Can you show me how to do that?

Speaker 1:
[22:11] Yeah. I mean, I make those really long ones, you know, that I'm sure you've never watched when I send them to you. They're hours long.

Speaker 2:
[22:18] No, I haven't watched them.

Speaker 1:
[22:19] No, I sent it to mom, dad, and my in-laws watch it. But you can do that. You can make it. Anyway, you're just not a social media person. More private. What is the best thing about raising your children at the same time as your sibling?

Speaker 2:
[22:36] I mean, aside from like...

Speaker 1:
[22:38] Misery loves company.

Speaker 2:
[22:39] Misery loves company, convenience, sharing all of the baby equipment so we don't have to buy our baby equipment. And once I'm done with it, you just literally uber delivery to your home.

Speaker 1:
[22:50] The timing of our kids were very convenient.

Speaker 2:
[22:52] The timing of our kids was very convenient. Loved all the pajamas that my child has made of yours.

Speaker 1:
[22:58] I'll need this back eventually.

Speaker 2:
[22:59] I know. I am putting a separate pile for you. I think what's really nice is when I... I very much try to live in like a community village lifestyle in the same way that you. I'm not as lucky as you where you have someone like literally next door. Yeah, it's great. That's amazing. But we definitely do have like a crew. And we're at the point where like we're comfortable at each other's homes and etc. But like, it's really nice to be able to just say like, hey, I'm coming over with the kids for the afternoon. And I can very much be myself.

Speaker 1:
[23:39] Of course, no matter how close you are with friends, nothing compares to a sister.

Speaker 2:
[23:43] It's different, you know. And I also like really love being able to help you out when like...

Speaker 1:
[23:52] Totally.

Speaker 2:
[23:53] You need it and vice versa. Like, it's different being able to call a sister than a friend when you need help and child care and stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:03] Yeah. I will say I love our age gap. Like, I love that our kids... But I also think it's been hard where I felt this way, especially with your first, I felt like I wasn't able to be there for you because I was four months postpartum.

Speaker 2:
[24:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:16] So I felt guilty there because I was like, you were able to help me so much with my first, but then when you had your first, I was like, I'm so fucking in it. So I felt like I was kind of able to help a little bit more with your daughter, but I also feel like I haven't seen her.

Speaker 2:
[24:28] My gosh, she's just like a full grown.

Speaker 1:
[24:30] And so fucking long.

Speaker 2:
[24:31] Literally, like, I think she speaks now. I'm like, what's happening?

Speaker 1:
[24:33] I know, I saw your taxi the other day. Well, I'm excited to see her next weekend.

Speaker 2:
[24:36] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[24:37] Did she want gifts? I'm assuming no.

Speaker 2:
[24:39] Don't you dare bring a thing into my house. You're like me.

Speaker 1:
[24:42] Literally, Amy's coming this weekend, and I was like, do not bring a toy into my house.

Speaker 2:
[24:45] No, absolutely not.

Speaker 1:
[24:46] I don't want shit. You're like me in that way.

Speaker 2:
[24:49] I don't allow any battery-operated toys in my home. Not because I'm like a grinch, but because I have such noise over-stimulation, I absolutely cannot.

Speaker 1:
[25:01] But we have different over-stimulations. I am somehow able to have a drum set.

Speaker 2:
[25:05] I don't understand.

Speaker 1:
[25:06] It literally breaks my brain. I don't know. Something about that is fine, but other toys drive me insane. All right, I want to talk about...

Speaker 3:
[25:16] The fucking cars.

Speaker 1:
[25:18] The bumper cars you have in your house. To be so fair, I would never have bought those.

Speaker 2:
[25:23] But the fact that you have bumper cars that light up.

Speaker 1:
[25:26] Nanny bought them for them. What was I supposed to do?

Speaker 2:
[25:28] You say, thank you so much. This is so sweet. And they're leaving my home.

Speaker 3:
[25:31] But she's there every day.

Speaker 2:
[25:33] They're there when you're here and they are upstairs. I cannot.

Speaker 1:
[25:36] I think they're about to get moved out of the home. We have hit our point. And it's not even our kids. It's when other kids come over.

Speaker 2:
[25:44] Of course.

Speaker 1:
[25:44] It's the first thing they jump on. Same with the drum set. The drum set is broken because of other kids. They come over and it's the first thing they go to. And then they like knock it over and it's completely shattered.

Speaker 2:
[25:53] But I also feel like the drum set was like so much a part of your personal identity.

Speaker 1:
[25:57] It was. It was.

Speaker 2:
[25:57] But it doesn't bother you.

Speaker 1:
[25:58] I want to get into the new mom experience. How did your postpartums differ? And with that, can you talk about the difference of experiencing vaginal and C-section deliveries?

Speaker 2:
[26:09] Sure. Just throwing it out there for all of YouTube.

Speaker 3:
[26:12] Okay, well, we don't have to.

Speaker 2:
[26:14] No kidding. Postpartum, with my first kid, I was lucky and I didn't have any postpartum anxiety or depression. And then with my second, I chose to formula feed from the jump. And so, I was fully unprepared with the hormone drop of...

Speaker 1:
[26:36] Massive crash.

Speaker 2:
[26:37] Whoo, not prepared at all for that. One of my friends had like warned me, but I just like had really thought about it.

Speaker 1:
[26:44] Is it because you're experiencing both at once?

Speaker 2:
[26:46] Because you're experiencing the estrogen, progesterone...

Speaker 1:
[26:49] Progesterone.

Speaker 2:
[26:50] Progesterone and the prolactin, which is the milk, right? All go and crash in at once.

Speaker 1:
[26:57] Right, because you experience a hormone crash when you give birth and then when you...

Speaker 2:
[27:00] And when you wean, you have another one.

Speaker 1:
[27:02] So you're weaning, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[27:04] That's not not fun. That was not fun.

Speaker 1:
[27:07] But do you regret that decision?

Speaker 2:
[27:09] No, not at all. It was something that I felt very confident and secure in going in to do for a variety of reasons. And so that sucked, but that only lasted like a week or so. But I don't know, my postpartum experiences, I'm very blessed and lucky because I have incredible support. I had my in-laws, my husband, my family. I had a night nurse. I was very blessed. So my postpartum experiences emotionally, mentally were generally fine. Physically, okay, hot takes.

Speaker 1:
[27:51] I was just going to say, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[27:52] This is my personal hot take. But I also think this is because my doctor, for my second, was like such a badass. My first born, I had a vaginal birth. My second born, I had a planned C-section because my lovely daughter was breached and wanted nothing to do with turning upside down. I was like literally upside down on the ironing board the last like two weeks of my pregnancy to try to get her to flip. And no, I'm not kidding.

Speaker 1:
[28:17] Is part of you happy, I'm just going to ask this, that you had a c-section because you also were doing this whole thing where you were like, I'm going to have an unmedicated delivery, which is so on brand for you. So on brand.

Speaker 2:
[28:30] No, I really did want that. I really did want that. Let me be clear. My first pregnancy, I was like, inject all of the drugs immediately into me.

Speaker 1:
[28:41] Yeah, that's how I am.

Speaker 2:
[28:42] The second I get into the hospital. But with my first birth, I felt very disconnected from the birth experience and my son because of a variety of reasons of how my birth went. And so I was just craving this, I was craving this experience of connection that I didn't have with my first birth. And in my head, I was like, the only way I can achieve that is through an unmedicated birth. Probably for the best that I had to have your plan.

Speaker 1:
[29:11] Well, did you feel it with your C-section?

Speaker 2:
[29:14] Connection during a C-section?

Speaker 1:
[29:16] I don't know, I know, but I don't know who feels like, I don't know if I would say I felt like connected. I felt connected when they put him on my chest and connected to the experience.

Speaker 2:
[29:29] She went straight to the NICU. So I didn't get to, I held her from, I held her maybe, I gave birth to her at like 8 a.m. And I held her at 1130 for like a minute.

Speaker 3:
[29:41] Right.

Speaker 2:
[29:42] She was in the NICU for like a few days.

Speaker 1:
[29:44] So I completely forgot about that.

Speaker 2:
[29:46] That sucked.

Speaker 3:
[29:48] But physically you liked...

Speaker 2:
[29:50] Physically, physically, hot take preferred a C-section, planned C-sectional recovery over a vaginal recovery.

Speaker 1:
[29:58] Also maybe because you had a difficult vaginal.

Speaker 3:
[30:00] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[30:01] My son's head is extremely large, isn't it? And he was big. And he was big. And that's not fun.

Speaker 1:
[30:06] Yeah. What was it like transitioning to a new job after mat leave?

Speaker 2:
[30:15] Okay. So I went on mat leave. I left my job after mat leave, which was a whole lot of guilt that I did that. I started a new job at a startup in a role I'd never done before. Just faking it till I make it, just pretending I knew what I was doing. And three weeks in, I got a concussion. Don't recommend that at all.

Speaker 1:
[30:46] I highly don't recommend any type of concussion, let alone postpartum.

Speaker 2:
[30:50] Especially four months postpartum on the other side of the country, three weeks into a new job. So yeah, starting a new job postpartum was really hard because your brain isn't on. Your brain, first of all, isn't turned on.

Speaker 1:
[31:05] I think it takes at least nine months to a year.

Speaker 2:
[31:07] At least. Your brain is not fully turned on. Your brain definitely is not turned on when you get a concussion. Nope. Your brain is not turned on when you've never done the job before.

Speaker 1:
[31:17] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[31:18] It's hard. This is a little challenging.

Speaker 1:
[31:21] On that note, obviously Lucy's on here a lot and she works a corporate job, but she doesn't have children and she also isn't commuting.

Speaker 2:
[31:30] Yeah. What am I doing with my life?

Speaker 1:
[31:34] Yeah. How do you manage and navigate being a working parent? No one has hit this mic flag more than you. How do you navigate?

Speaker 3:
[31:45] Like it's so on brand. The spatial awareness of your head, of your body.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] But how do you navigate being a working parent with the commute now to kids in a corporate setting?

Speaker 2:
[32:01] I'm not sure.

Speaker 1:
[32:02] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[32:04] Like actually want to know?

Speaker 1:
[32:06] Yeah, like if you have any tangible tips.

Speaker 2:
[32:09] Tangible tips.

Speaker 1:
[32:11] Or things that you're struggling with.

Speaker 2:
[32:12] My number one tip, you eat first. You gotta eat. If you don't eat, you'll be hangry, and then the second your kids scream at you, you will flip out of them. Moms eat first.

Speaker 1:
[32:22] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[32:23] Literally moms eat first, always, no matter what. Second, I saw, oh my God, I saw this on your Instagram post because I do watch your Instagrams. On my computer.

Speaker 1:
[32:33] I'm curious what this is going to be.

Speaker 2:
[32:34] About waking up before your kids. I have to wake up before my kids. If I don't wake up before my kids, absolutely not game over.

Speaker 1:
[32:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[32:40] I have to. I have to exercise, so I have to somehow fit that in.

Speaker 1:
[32:46] Are you doing that before your kids wake up?

Speaker 2:
[32:48] Always. Yeah. And my husband's job is bizarre hours and confusing, and so I think it just requires a lot of communication, a lot of expressing your needs, which has always been hard for me, of like, I need this and this is important to me. I'm very bad at that, but I'm working on it.

Speaker 1:
[33:14] It's so interesting because you're bad at that and I'm so good at that.

Speaker 2:
[33:16] You're so good at it.

Speaker 1:
[33:18] Like a little too, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[33:20] Perhaps.

Speaker 1:
[33:20] Perhaps, some may say.

Speaker 2:
[33:22] Some may say. But I also, my, if you can have this, my number one thing is I have a babysitter come every Thursday. When those are the days that I know my husband's gone. It's the hardest day because I'm coming home from the office, so I'm coming home on good old NJ Trans.

Speaker 1:
[33:49] When it decides to run.

Speaker 2:
[33:50] When it decides to run, I'm picking up the kids from school, I'm driving home, I'm trying to figure out dinner, I'm trying to figure out bath time. It's like fucking chaos. And I have a babysitter come from 6 to 8 PM.

Speaker 1:
[34:04] That's really nice.

Speaker 2:
[34:05] And it's like those two hours. You don't even need, like, you can have a mother's helper. Like it doesn't. A mother's helper down the street could be 12 years old, and she's 10 bucks, but she will play with your son while you can go to dinner.

Speaker 1:
[34:17] We have a girl in our neighborhood.

Speaker 2:
[34:18] Yeah. And so that's like my biggest hack is, like on specific time frames that you know are chaos, have someone come help.

Speaker 1:
[34:29] Even like the night, like Thursdays are also the day that I do solo, like bedtime, all of that. And our nanny stays till 6 that night.

Speaker 2:
[34:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:40] Just like that additional hour for me is so helpful of like navigating everyone sitting and eating. And then like that. Can we talk about transitioning from one to two kids? Because I think, not to speak for you, you found the one to two transition harder than zero to one.

Speaker 2:
[34:57] Zero to one. I was like, I'm crushing life.

Speaker 1:
[35:00] And I found zero to one so insanely overwhelming.

Speaker 2:
[35:04] Yeah, no, I don't know. And like my in-laws weren't even living nearby us at the time. I was like, I'm cruising. I think-

Speaker 1:
[35:12] Couldn't be me.

Speaker 2:
[35:13] No, I think it was because I had a remote job at the time.

Speaker 1:
[35:18] You found a daycare that you loved.

Speaker 2:
[35:19] I found a daycare that I loved, that he was there at like five months on. I had a long mat leave.

Speaker 1:
[35:26] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:26] My husband was home during my mat leave for like five, six months. Like I was, it wasn't like I was home.

Speaker 1:
[35:32] That's true.

Speaker 2:
[35:33] Before my kid went to daycare, it wasn't like I was home by myself, like losing my mind with an infant. I was with, like we were together.

Speaker 1:
[35:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:40] It was really nice.

Speaker 1:
[35:41] Joe was home, but he started working a week, two.

Speaker 2:
[35:45] Yeah. That's the one I started thinking about.

Speaker 1:
[35:49] We did just find out he, it was two for the first, four for a second, and it's been upgraded to six. Great. Well, we get six weeks. You found one to two harder.

Speaker 2:
[35:58] Zero to one, I think I was crushing. And then I think one to two was also hard because my sons, he was three and a half by the time she was born. And we were in a groove. You're leaving the house without diapers, you're leaving the house without a bag. You're just, you're going out, you're doing your thing. You have your routine. There's no schedule, really. He's not napping. Like, you don't have to, it's so, you're way less tied down to then, and don't get me wrong, I'm obsessed with the age gap, obsessed.

Speaker 1:
[36:35] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[36:36] Highly recommend an age gap like that. But I just hadn't been in it in a while and I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[36:44] I know. And I think this is interesting about age gaps because I don't know what the deal is of everyone pushing for 200 or 200 lately. If that's what you want to do, do it. But I don't like this pressure that we put on women.

Speaker 2:
[36:56] What pressure is there?

Speaker 1:
[36:57] I felt like the second, my first turned one, everyone was like, are you going to have your second?

Speaker 2:
[37:02] Well, that's because people don't know what else to talk to people about.

Speaker 1:
[37:04] No, no, no. But it's a thing. It's a thing that people want 200 or 200. I don't know, because people think that it's better to never leave the baby phase. I have a hard disagree on that. I think the hard thing, I will say, because I watched this, mine are two and a half, and then I've watched one of my best friends, Ashley, she has five, age gap. And so for her, she was like, I was nervous for her to go back into baby world, because they were living, I would look out my window, I remember, and they would just be like hanging out in the backyard, and the daughter would be like painting and doing her own thing. Oh God, I'm so jealous when I had my second at that point. But she says, she's like, I missed having a baby, because it had been so long, that I welcomed it so much. And I think for me, two and a half was like, I wasn't fully out of it as much as you were, but I definitely didn't miss it yet. So it's kind of like, okay, I do think three and a half can be a little confusing in that phase where you don't miss it yet, but you are kind of out of it.

Speaker 2:
[38:06] I see what you're saying. I've learned with two kids now that I prefer children after a year.

Speaker 1:
[38:13] Of course. I agree, hard to agree. So I would say a year and a half.

Speaker 2:
[38:19] A year and a half. Yeah. I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[38:22] So when they can talk.

Speaker 2:
[38:23] Yeah. Yeah. She started saying words and I was like, fuck yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:26] Yeah. There's just a different connection there, an enjoyment, and a different relationship. And I think even more so when it's your second. Because with your first, you're like, they're crawling.

Speaker 3:
[38:38] They're sitting up.

Speaker 2:
[38:39] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[38:40] And with your second, you're like, can you talk to me? Because you're so used to communicating.

Speaker 2:
[38:44] I think that's what's hard, right? Is like, I have full, my son has a full blown conversation with me about anything and everything. And it's hard to go back to being like, I don't know what you need.

Speaker 1:
[38:55] Right.

Speaker 2:
[38:55] You're crying. But why are you crying? I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[38:58] It's funny. I left my older son at my friend's house for like four hours the other day because Joe and I had to go do something. So I was like, can you watch him?

Speaker 2:
[39:06] We'll have a drop off play date.

Speaker 1:
[39:08] Well, it was Danny and Rob. So they don't have a kid his age. They were just babysitting him while their daughter napped. And I also love a drop off play date. And I met them after. Like I came back over for dinner and they were like, it was so fascinating because he just walked up to us at one point. He was playing in their room while they were working. And he walked up and was like, hey, Danny, I'm hungry. Can I please have something from the fridge? And she was like, whoa, a kid can just state their needs and communicate what they want rather than throwing a tantrum and being like, what do you need? Are you tired? It's like, it's so, so different. Is it different? I can't speak to this. Raising a girl. Do you feel any difference?

Speaker 2:
[39:53] Not yet.

Speaker 1:
[39:54] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[39:55] She's like still a baby.

Speaker 1:
[39:57] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[39:58] Not really yet.

Speaker 1:
[39:59] How does it feel to know you are done at two?

Speaker 2:
[40:01] Oh my God. Bliss.

Speaker 1:
[40:04] Even more bliss, watching me.

Speaker 2:
[40:06] Bliss. Every time I pass by a pregnant woman, I'm like, sucks to suck. I just really hate pregnancy, as I know you do too, which is why I'm like, I shout out to you. I couldn't do it. Couldn't do it.

Speaker 1:
[40:24] Did any part of you ever want three? No. Because we're three?

Speaker 2:
[40:27] No. I always wanted to.

Speaker 1:
[40:28] Even before you knew how hard pregnancy was?

Speaker 2:
[40:31] Well, at first, I went through this stage where I was like, I'm never having kids.

Speaker 1:
[40:35] I mean, Madi.

Speaker 2:
[40:35] Because I do this.

Speaker 1:
[40:37] I'm living in the city. I've never had kids. I'm never getting married. I'm never having a wedding. If I get married, I'm never wearing a wedding dress. I would never have a dog. Obviously.

Speaker 2:
[40:45] Obviously. The most consistent thing about me is my inconsistency. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[40:49] I'm a girl who's self-aware.

Speaker 2:
[40:51] Hey.

Speaker 1:
[40:53] Being done it too, but you also have very close relationships with other children through your work at CASA. For anyone who doesn't know what CASA is, or is potentially interested in getting involved in CASA, can you share about the program?

Speaker 2:
[41:07] Yeah. So CASA means Court Appointed Special Advocate. And essentially, your role is to advocate for specific children who are in the foster care system within your local county. And so you do it like 40-hour training, and then you get paired up with a kid that could be anywhere from an infant all the way up to 18, who's in the foster care system in your community. And your goal is legally to, because you are legally bound by this, is to advocate for them in court during the court proceedings about their specific needs. So for example, there's social workers who support the resource parents, there's social workers who support the kids, there's social workers who support the whole system because they are employed by the state.

Speaker 1:
[42:02] Sorry, what's a resource parent?

Speaker 2:
[42:04] Oh, a foster parent.

Speaker 1:
[42:05] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[42:06] But there's no one that's really dedicated to the actual well-being of what's in the best interest of the child.

Speaker 1:
[42:14] And consistent.

Speaker 2:
[42:15] And consistent. So it's like social workers come in and out, you get placed from one foster home to another all the time without warning oftentimes. And so the CASA is there as that consistent thread throughout all of the different homes that a kid might be moved to to advocate for their best interest. So for example, you might notice that the kid has a bit of a speech delay, but no one has figured out that they need to be assessed for an IEP at school and given speech therapy. Or you might notice that the kid has a specific issue at school or a specific issue at home or is struggling in a certain area, and you're the one advocating for that. You get to know the kids, you get to know the resource parents. If the biological parents are involved, you get to know them really well, and you get really intimately involved in their care and their well-being. And I think the hardest part is when you see them being bopped around from home to home. The kids that I'm with now, they were on their fourth home in two years, and they're like little kids, and that's fucking heartbreaking. But I highly recommend if anyone is... I'd say that if you are someone who loves children, and if you are someone who is strong at advocating for other people, and strong at verbal and written communication skills, and someone who's good at following up and calling doctors' offices, a lot of logistics. If you're very good at logistics, it's a very good opportunity to be able to use those towards good, where I'm calling the school social worker to check in on them, I'm calling their doctor to make sure that they got their physical, I'm calling the resource mom to see whether the kid got to school that day because they know that the bus didn't pick them up because the transportation system didn't have the correct address on file, like all of these different logistics. So, it's a really incredible organization, and they're in desperate need of more CASA advocates because there are way more foster kids in the US than there should be, and then there are advocates.

Speaker 1:
[44:38] Thank you for that. It's something I do, I know I said I wanted to do it, and then I got pregnant with myself. I want to do it, but I also think you have to...

Speaker 2:
[44:47] You have to be ready.

Speaker 1:
[44:48] Well, you want to be ready, and you don't want to do it if you're not going to commit the time to it.

Speaker 2:
[44:52] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[44:52] Because then you're screwing over this child.

Speaker 2:
[44:55] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[44:56] Are you comfortable talking...

Speaker 2:
[45:00] I can't.

Speaker 1:
[45:02] Should we just be done with them?

Speaker 2:
[45:03] I think we should be done with them.

Speaker 1:
[45:04] Okay, we're fucking done with the mic files for the day.

Speaker 2:
[45:06] Okay, but can we do like a cute little hot take on Instagram of all the times I've flicked it off?

Speaker 1:
[45:12] Yeah, sure. Okay, I have to sit like this, because I'm so uncomfortable now.

Speaker 2:
[45:16] I'm sorry. Do you want me to rub your feet?

Speaker 1:
[45:17] No. No, sure.

Speaker 2:
[45:20] It's too far.

Speaker 1:
[45:21] Okay. What are some things in terms of parenting style that you feel you are doing differently than... What do you think I'm going to say?

Speaker 2:
[45:31] Me? Than mom.

Speaker 1:
[45:31] Oh, I was going to say than our parents. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[45:37] I... It's so hard to answer this, because I don't want mom to listen to this. I'd be like...

Speaker 1:
[45:46] Mom knows that... Look, every person wants to be a better parent than their parents were. That's the reality of life.

Speaker 2:
[45:54] They were wonderful parents.

Speaker 1:
[45:54] And they were wonderful parents, and every person is going to take things from their parents and be like, oh, I loved that. Oh, I don't want to do that. We're going to fuck up our kids. My kids are going to leave being like, I'm not doing this thing that mom did. That's the reality.

Speaker 2:
[46:09] I think the... The one thing that I'd say... Well, I mean, what's similar, right, is that like I'm trying to create... My values are very similar to mom, the way mom and dad raised us, right? Is kindness, is love, is support, is unconditional. Yeah. And so I think I try really hard to do that. Kindness is like a very important value in our home. And respect is a very important value in our home. I think the one thing...

Speaker 1:
[46:42] What about respect of parents? I don't think we respected mom and dad.

Speaker 2:
[46:46] So I was gonna get into that. Okay. Respect towards parents is a very important value in our home that I don't think was a value in...

Speaker 1:
[46:56] Never.

Speaker 2:
[46:58] We would like curse out mom and dad. I feel so bad.

Speaker 1:
[47:00] So bad.

Speaker 2:
[47:01] So bad.

Speaker 1:
[47:02] I remember you yell.

Speaker 2:
[47:03] When I told her...

Speaker 1:
[47:03] I would yell back at her and be like, are you a fucking bitch?

Speaker 2:
[47:07] Which is like unfathomable to like, Carl. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so, so bad. So bad. So I think that's different. Kindness, yes, very similar value, but like respect towards parents and elders and each other is very important value to us. I'm trying to read like a good citizen of the world. I think on a more tactical level, the thing that's very different about the way I'm raising kids versus mom and dad is we have like no activities.

Speaker 1:
[47:48] I was going to say that. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[47:50] Which is where we differ.

Speaker 2:
[47:51] Which is where we differ. We don't have a single activity. Well, we don't even do swim. We haven't done swim in like years. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[47:59] No, you did it recently.

Speaker 2:
[48:01] We did.

Speaker 1:
[48:01] You're living in Madi world.

Speaker 2:
[48:02] It's a seven day program.

Speaker 1:
[48:05] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[48:08] We let the weekend take us where it goes.

Speaker 1:
[48:12] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[48:13] And I think we let a very like over-programmed childhood. And I was always doing something and always in every activity under the sun. And in many ways, I look back on that fondly, right? Because I had all these different experiences. And I was able to try out things to see what I liked.

Speaker 1:
[48:33] But do you, and not to like put things on our children at all, but like when you look back in your childhood and the role that sports played, would you want your kids to play sports?

Speaker 2:
[48:45] No, because then you're fucking weekends all screwed. And then you're driving to Maryland every weekend like we did. And your whole summer is screwed. And you can't do anything.

Speaker 1:
[48:54] I know. And it's just gotten worse.

Speaker 2:
[48:56] No, it's insane.

Speaker 1:
[48:57] I have big issues with this. I talk about this with our Joe's brother, because his kid is really involved in football, and his daughter also is really involved in sports. And he tells me their program schedule and stuff.

Speaker 2:
[49:13] No, I can't.

Speaker 1:
[49:14] And we've gotten to a point where kids can't play multiple sports.

Speaker 2:
[49:17] No, it's insane.

Speaker 1:
[49:18] And that's where the plot has gone too far. We've let it go too far.

Speaker 2:
[49:24] If my child wants to play sports at school, amazing. But I don't think I don't see a world where club sports is part of our family dynamic.

Speaker 1:
[49:31] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[49:32] Secretly hope it's never. I secretly want my child to be terrible at sports.

Speaker 1:
[49:37] I want to be a coach.

Speaker 2:
[49:39] I want my child to live a wonderful, fulfilling life and be terrible at sports so that I never have to put them on a travel team. Am I going to get shade in the comments for that?

Speaker 1:
[49:50] No. And people ask how our parenting styles differ. And I think right there is the epitome.

Speaker 2:
[49:55] Well, because you also loved sports more than I did. I played sports because it was something that I was expected to do.

Speaker 1:
[50:00] Yes, I love it. Okay, that was another question of how do you think our parenting styles differ?

Speaker 2:
[50:11] I don't know. How do you think?

Speaker 1:
[50:12] I'm trying to think. I think I run a bit of a tighter schedule ship.

Speaker 2:
[50:17] Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1:
[50:18] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[50:20] Schedule, schmudge roll.

Speaker 1:
[50:21] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[50:26] Perhaps that would be better because my child went to bed at 10 o'clock last night.

Speaker 1:
[50:30] Yeah, like I simply could not.

Speaker 2:
[50:34] But he was so cute.

Speaker 1:
[50:35] Yeah. But I'm like...

Speaker 2:
[50:39] It's not like I'm taking care of him. I'm doing things.

Speaker 1:
[50:43] I know. And I guess I think about this with my older son.

Speaker 2:
[50:46] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[50:46] My younger son, no. Like I would never, because he would be attached to my leg, and that would be like... I'd have to be on that time. With my older son, we've started pushing back his bedtime, where he does puzzles. He's obsessed with his puzzles right now. So he's just doing puzzles in his room.

Speaker 2:
[51:03] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:04] And I'm fine with that. But I still always have to end the night with him, with cuddling, and then it's the battle to get out of the bed. And so yeah, I'd rather that happen so that I can then go, especially right now.

Speaker 2:
[51:17] I mean, I do all that, and then I go do my own thing, and he's like...

Speaker 1:
[51:25] So scheduling, I think, is probably the biggest thing we differ on.

Speaker 2:
[51:27] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:28] And maybe the activities.

Speaker 2:
[51:29] I mean, I remember when you had your first.

Speaker 1:
[51:32] Oh my God. No, it was crazy.

Speaker 2:
[51:34] You were insane.

Speaker 1:
[51:35] Well, that was my postpartum anxiety.

Speaker 2:
[51:37] Okay, fair.

Speaker 1:
[51:38] And like, I'm so aware of that. I had postpartum anxiety slash OCD around that, where I felt like it was...

Speaker 2:
[51:44] It was 132.

Speaker 1:
[51:46] Yeah, like that was the thing I could control. That was honestly the most freeing part of the second.

Speaker 2:
[51:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:51] Where I was like, oh my God, I don't feel that way. And that's so nice. But it all consumed me. I think because I had such bad postpartum depression, it was like the one thing I felt in control of, but also so anxiety ridden around. As a working new mom, not new mom.

Speaker 2:
[52:15] Technically, I'm still under one year.

Speaker 1:
[52:16] Yeah. But you were a mom before. So are you a new mom? No.

Speaker 2:
[52:22] Hashtag RebornMom.

Speaker 1:
[52:24] Okay. Sure. As a new mom to two, how do you fill your cup?

Speaker 2:
[52:29] Like, what do you mean?

Speaker 1:
[52:30] Like, how do you prioritize self-care?

Speaker 2:
[52:33] Oh, got it.

Speaker 1:
[52:35] Madi would be like, I go to a sink and take a glass of water. That's my mother-in-law. She once told me, you know how my husband's the most literal man in the world? It's because she told me she was in some program, and they were trying to do, I don't know what it was, but they were like, what do you see when you look in the mirror and everyone wrote down these things, and she wrote down myself.

Speaker 2:
[53:01] I can't.

Speaker 1:
[53:02] I can't.

Speaker 2:
[53:03] I can't. Like, so literal.

Speaker 1:
[53:07] Okay, how do you feel you're cut?

Speaker 2:
[53:16] No, I mean, like, there's things that are, like, non-negotiables for me of, like, making sure I exercise, making sure that I'm getting outdoor time, like walking my dog, enjoying outdoor time. Date nights are very important to me and my husband.

Speaker 1:
[53:33] You guys do. That's a different way we also... I don't know if that's parenting.

Speaker 2:
[53:36] It's not parenting.

Speaker 3:
[53:38] But you guys really do date nights.

Speaker 1:
[53:40] And you, like, go to the city, which is so insane to me.

Speaker 2:
[53:43] It's just like, why would you not? Why else am I living here? I could be living in California, where it's nicer weather, but I live here because of New York.

Speaker 1:
[53:50] I don't live here because of New York. I live here because of my family.

Speaker 2:
[53:52] Oh, thank you.

Speaker 3:
[53:53] That's why you live here?

Speaker 1:
[53:54] Because of New York?

Speaker 2:
[53:56] No, you too, obviously.

Speaker 3:
[53:59] Fucking rude.

Speaker 2:
[54:04] Yeah, we're in the city a lot.

Speaker 1:
[54:05] We also, I will say, can walk to really good restaurants. So that's where I'm just lazy.

Speaker 2:
[54:12] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[54:12] But we do. They're good.

Speaker 1:
[54:16] I'm not saying it's lortuzi, but they're good.

Speaker 2:
[54:18] My thing is, it's like, if I'm going to go out, I'd rather go have really good food.

Speaker 1:
[54:26] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[54:27] And then we take the train home, which you think is unhinged.

Speaker 1:
[54:29] Like a late hour. That's so crazy to me. What's the train for? In the morning? Like, no.

Speaker 3:
[54:38] 8 o'clock on?

Speaker 1:
[54:39] This bitch? Lifting.

Speaker 2:
[54:42] Oh, fuck.

Speaker 1:
[54:42] Okay. Or Ubering.

Speaker 2:
[54:44] It's okay.

Speaker 1:
[54:45] Okay. So that's how you fill your cup. Madi has an appointment to go to, so rapid fire and then we're done. Do you have a go-to mom hack?

Speaker 2:
[54:52] The babysitter from, like, during the two, like the two babysitter or mother's helper during like the two-hour window, that's the hardest for you.

Speaker 1:
[55:00] Favorite part of this time in your life?

Speaker 2:
[55:03] My kids.

Speaker 1:
[55:04] Most proud of yourself for?

Speaker 2:
[55:06] Most what? Proud of myself for? Surviving two kids with a concussion.

Speaker 1:
[55:13] One word to describe me, you, and Lucy. That's a really weird vertigo.

Speaker 2:
[55:20] You, strong.

Speaker 1:
[55:22] Oh, wow. Thanks.

Speaker 2:
[55:25] Lucy, confident. That girl.

Speaker 1:
[55:32] I wish I could face that bitch.

Speaker 2:
[55:33] Nothing.

Speaker 1:
[55:34] I mean, also easy to be confident when you look like that.

Speaker 2:
[55:36] Oh my God. Fuck.

Speaker 1:
[55:41] Okay, you?

Speaker 2:
[55:42] Oh, one word to describe me?

Speaker 1:
[55:44] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[55:44] Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[55:46] Couldn't tell ya.

Speaker 2:
[55:48] How would you describe me? One word?

Speaker 1:
[55:54] Caring isn't the right word, but like giving. Thanks. Like that. Giving of your time, giving of your affection. It's not maternal isn't what I'm looking for, but that.

Speaker 2:
[56:08] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[56:10] Least favorite thing about being my sister?

Speaker 2:
[56:15] How confrontational you are.

Speaker 1:
[56:20] When was the last time we've confronted?

Speaker 2:
[56:22] Not everyone's, maybe that's not the right way. Just like you're, you know what you want. You are not afraid to say it and make it happen.

Speaker 1:
[56:32] Yeah. Way you think we're most similar.

Speaker 2:
[56:36] Um, actually how we parent.

Speaker 1:
[56:41] Way you think we're most different. All of the things. I know we actually couldn't be more different. All of the things. It's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[56:52] No, but I think parenting has brought us closer because I think we do parent somewhat similarly.

Speaker 1:
[56:56] Yeah. Um, I will say, I think I'm a little bit more, we care about different things, but I think I'm a little bit more, um, strict isn't the right word. More like stern a little bit. Like, I feel like I never see you like get stern with your son, whereas I will like...

Speaker 2:
[57:20] Yeah, I don't yell at them.

Speaker 1:
[57:22] I don't yell.

Speaker 2:
[57:23] What do you mean by stern them?

Speaker 1:
[57:25] Like, I will be like, I'll say his full name and I'll be like, get over here right now.

Speaker 2:
[57:33] I don't know. I...

Speaker 1:
[57:35] I just feel like I've never seen you reprimand. I wasn't meaning this in a mean way.

Speaker 2:
[57:39] No, no, no. I'm just trying to think of why you haven't seen it.

Speaker 1:
[57:42] About myself, we're like Joe's sometimes like, whoa.

Speaker 2:
[57:47] I think, well, that's probably because he was like, I'm less than fucking walking around everywhere. I'm less of the disciplinarian in our house.

Speaker 1:
[57:54] True.

Speaker 2:
[57:54] So I think that's why.

Speaker 1:
[57:55] True. Early bird. I can't say that.

Speaker 2:
[57:58] Obviously an early bird. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[58:00] Well, your house is a night owl.

Speaker 2:
[58:02] So literally my house is such a fucking night owl. Entire house. My daughter hasn't slept in two weeks either.

Speaker 1:
[58:08] Favorite thing about our family.

Speaker 2:
[58:12] We're pretty fun.

Speaker 3:
[58:13] Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2:
[58:15] Pretty fun.

Speaker 1:
[58:16] I don't think I'm actually that much fun anymore, but I think our family is fun.

Speaker 2:
[58:21] Why is you fun?

Speaker 1:
[58:24] I think I'm always tired.

Speaker 2:
[58:25] Well, because you have.

Speaker 1:
[58:27] You're pregnant. I work a lot.

Speaker 2:
[58:29] No, I think you're so fun.

Speaker 1:
[58:30] Okay. Thank you. That's all. The last one is what's it like being a private icon? You can answer that.

Speaker 2:
[58:38] Oh, God. Am I?

Speaker 1:
[58:40] Yeah. To the FF fam you are.

Speaker 2:
[58:43] Do you think I'm going to get the most views?

Speaker 1:
[58:44] Oh, mom is.

Speaker 2:
[58:46] Is mom freaking out?

Speaker 1:
[58:47] Okay. So mom, when we called Lucy for last minute, come to the Bahamas, I was on FaceTime with Lucy asking her to come, and mom FaceTime Lucy. So I was like, just add her in. Of course, mom thought like we had big news for her, because it was the two of us on the phone. And I was like, no, Lucy and I were just talking because she has to come to the Bahamas. And she was like, well, why didn't you ask me? I'm a quick boat ride.

Speaker 3:
[59:07] I'm a quick boat ride.

Speaker 1:
[59:09] She said it a hundred times about us being in the Bahamas. The only reason her dad didn't show up is because she had her Oscars party. And I was like, and she literally goes, well, who gets more views? Stop. And I had to, she made me go while we were on the phone and check. And mom was the answer. And she was like, that's what I thought. Mom just got invited, me and mom, to do a live panel recording for a pretty big name person. And I called her to ask if she would do it. And she was like, and the celebrity status begins. No. But you will probably get more downloads at mom.

Speaker 2:
[59:44] I hate that though. I really wish that this could be in like a hole.

Speaker 1:
[59:48] A hundred people will listen to this.

Speaker 2:
[59:53] Hate this for me.

Speaker 3:
[59:55] Okay, love you. Hope I was fun.

Speaker 2:
[59:57] Hope I gave the people what they wanted.

Speaker 1:
[59:59] Thank you so much for coming on. I won't ask where people can find you because you don't want to be found.

Speaker 2:
[60:04] Yeah, you can't find me.

Speaker 1:
[60:05] Bye.

Speaker 2:
[60:06] Bye.

Speaker 1:
[60:07] Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Conversations with Cam. This is truly my favorite part of my job, and I have so much fun chatting with you all. If this episode resonated with you in some way, please feel free to leave a comment. If you're listening on Spotify or rate and review the show on Apple, make sure you're subscribed so you're notified when we release a new episode every Wednesday morning. And if you think that a friend would enjoy this episode, please send it their way because you guys are truly the best assistants in helping the show grow. And of course, come follow us over on social at Cameron Oaks Rogers on Instagram and TikTok, and then at Conversations with Cam on Instagram. I appreciate you so much and I will see you next week with a new episode.