transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Spring always feels like a reset. Clearing things out, simplifying what you don't need. Apple Card is built with that same idea in mind. No annual fee, no late fees, and no foreign transaction fees. No fees, period. Get started and apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval, variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.49% to 27.74% based on credit worthiness. Rates as of January 1st, 2026. Existing customers can view their variable APR in the Wallet app or at card.apple.com. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

Speaker 2:
[00:37] Love now and forever.

Speaker 3:
[00:40] Love was stronger than anything.

Speaker 4:
[00:43] I feel the love.

Speaker 3:
[00:43] Love.

Speaker 4:
[00:44] And I love you more than anything.

Speaker 2:
[00:47] There's still love.

Speaker 4:
[00:48] Love.

Speaker 5:
[00:51] From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. I'm 31, which means I am in the thick of my bridesmaid era. By the end of this year, I'll have been a bridesmaid four times, officiated two weddings, and gone to five bachelorette parties. For these weddings and the bachelorettes that come with them, I've traveled to Cabo, and Miami, and Philly, and the Hamptons, and a small Korean island called Jeju. I've bought shoes, and dresses, and purses, and makeup, most of which I'll never wear again. And I want to be incredibly clear. I'm lucky to be able to do this. I love my friends. I love celebrating them. I love love. I host the show. But I've been thinking about how much all of this costs us, of course financially, but also emotionally. Being a bridesmaid comes with a ton of expectations, and you're supposed to navigate all of it while saying yes to the bride, and smiling for the cameras. I've been thinking about this stuff a lot, and so has today's guest, Ruhama Wolle. She's written a new book called I Hope You Elope. It's a bridesmaid survival guide that I think is long overdue, but might ruffle some bridal feathers. Ruhama told me why she's decided she will never be a bridesmaid again. And she has advice if you happen to find yourself in the position of being asked to buy yet another color coordinated pastel satin dress. If you know, you know. Ruhama Wolle, welcome to Modern Love.

Speaker 6:
[02:30] Thank you, Anna, it's such a great pleasure to be here.

Speaker 5:
[02:33] Ruhama, I wanna start by talking about an article you wrote for Glamour Magazine a few years ago. It's called, To All My Friends, This Is My Bridesmaid Resignation Letter. What was in this letter?

Speaker 6:
[02:47] Whew, there's a lot in the letter. It essentially was my way of publicly saying that I was no longer gonna be a bridesmaid. I had experienced being a bridesmaid for first wave of weddings, as I put it, which it catches most of us in our mid to late 20s. And mine came in post-pandemic. I mean, I think the pandemic got a lot of folks in love and I was all for it. But I came out of the pandemic and I was slapped with three invitations, right?

Speaker 5:
[03:17] I was slapped, okay, that word choice is very telling.

Speaker 6:
[03:20] Essentially, I was a bridesmaid three times, back to back. It honestly felt overwhelming. And the reason I use overwhelming is because it caught me at a very particular season. I'm single, I am in New York City, an assistant, navigating New York City for the first time, also living alone, paying my own bills. No one is financially responsible for root.

Speaker 5:
[03:45] Painting an expensive picture here. It's expensive to live the life you're living out.

Speaker 6:
[03:49] Yeah. So I feel like I got hit with the wave and underestimated what it would all come with. And I think the finances was a big, big part of it.

Speaker 5:
[04:01] I want to put like a number to it too, if you know this off the top of your head. You're saying you did at the time of writing this op-ed, this resignation letter, I'm never going to be a bridesmaid again, you've been a bridesmaid three times in three weddings. How much money had you spent on those three weddings?

Speaker 6:
[04:17] I had spent around in the mid-4,000s, and I say that because some people are like, but I'm like, wait for it. I did not attend two bachelorettes and two bridal showers, right? And if I remember correctly, one was in Palm Springs, one was in Jamaica, and so just sum up what a Jamaica weekend trip would cost. So I look back at it and I'm like, this could have easily been seven, eight, nine thousand dollars for three weddings. At a time where I'm like, I think I was making 60k.

Speaker 5:
[04:47] So that mid-four thousands number, I'm just saying it back because I'm marvelling at it, but also being like, yeah, in my experience, that sounds about right. Of course, let's acknowledge that this class absolutely plays a role here. Not every bachelorette is going to cost thousands of dollars, so we can certainly say that. But that's a lot of money.

Speaker 6:
[05:08] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[05:09] That's a lot of money.

Speaker 6:
[05:10] I'm like, that's three months of room.

Speaker 5:
[05:12] You always got it counted in terms of rent. I'm like, how much rent would this be? It's a lot of rent. Let's just do a rundown. What were you asked to pay for as a bridesmaid?

Speaker 6:
[05:22] I was asked to pay for the dress, which, mind you, there's the Western wedding dress, if you are having a multi-ethnic wedding, and then there are the traditional dresses, whether I was experiencing both a West African wedding and an East African wedding, and what that looks like, because I'm also adding a little bit of the logistical emotional nightmare of it.

Speaker 5:
[05:44] Add it on, add it on. I mean, of course it is. I've had the... Well, you go, you go, then I'm going to pop in.

Speaker 6:
[05:49] It's the way the aunties say it, where you're on WhatsApp, right? Someone is helping coordinate, you're trying to pick the fabric, and then essentially send your measurements, right? And you pray, you pray and hope that the measurements translate accordingly.

Speaker 5:
[06:05] So you are dealing with like bespoke dresses, because I was going to say, like, even in my experience where it's certainly not bespoke, we're like ordering from a business or company or whatever, there's this thing that I've been a part of where it's like, okay, we're not all getting the same dress, we're getting different styles of dresses in the same color. So we need to coordinate across, you know, 10 to 13 women, the different styles that work for them. And some people sort of both want the halter top, so we can't do that. So we're gonna have to work that out and, oh, this color, but actually, maybe we're going to go with this color. And of course, you know, the color might not necessarily be flattering on everyone's skin tone. And in my experience, it's also like, this is all done through a flurry of Google Docs and texts and emails. Like, there's so much coordination. And we are just talking about the dress.

Speaker 6:
[06:51] The dress. That's it. The dress.

Speaker 5:
[06:53] Let's talk about the other stuff. I mean, and even before the wedding, let's talk about the bachelorette parties.

Speaker 6:
[06:58] There's the bachelorette parties, which logistically become a back and forth because we're trying to decide on a city, a location. Then it becomes, is the bride keen on one particular location or is it a bride who's kind of like, let's let everyone throw options, which gets dicey because then it's the loudest sort of end up being able to come.

Speaker 5:
[07:19] And you're going to happen in Nashville.

Speaker 6:
[07:21] That's... Thank you. So group dynamics really plays a part in that. And then it becomes this like split cost.

Speaker 5:
[07:27] The split-wise.

Speaker 6:
[07:28] Split-wise is, oh, if I never have to do a split-wise ever again.

Speaker 5:
[07:33] Because you have my resignation letter for split-wise. Okay, for the uninitiated, this is a app that allows you to break down a check, but it's like we're split-wise in the multi-course meal, and then we're split-wise-ing to like waters we got for the Airbnb. You know what I mean? It's just...

Speaker 6:
[07:49] It is literally counting nickel and dimes, but you underestimate it because I think there was one or two folks who kind of waited until the tail end of the trip to kind of punch in all the numbers, and you're like, Ah, I would have maneuvered a little differently. -You watched that tick up. But now you're like, I owe this because they clearly... -Mm-hmm. And mind you, you also don't know what the total is until they've sent it. Because if someone's like, Oh, don't worry about it. We'll do it in the split-wise app, and they'll go and charge their card, you don't know what that total came out to. So you're processing money in a very delayed fashion and form.

Speaker 5:
[08:24] That is such a good point. It's like I come away from these weekends, whatever, experiences being like, okay, I think that'll cost like X amount of money, and then I'm always surprised when the final Venmo or whatever comes. So it's, yeah, it's all this cost, but it's also kind of like obfuscated in ways. It's obviously not polite to talk about finances while on The Bachelorette.

Speaker 6:
[08:46] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[08:48] In this time where you were writing this letter and your budget was so tight, did you spend beyond your means? Did you? You did.

Speaker 6:
[08:55] I did. I definitely did. Here's my thing. When I say beyond my means, it's not I put it on a credit card and got myself into debt. It's more so that I had to take a lot of financial sacrifices. So I wasn't able to go anywhere and travel outside of that. I had to.

Speaker 5:
[09:13] You couldn't take a vacation of your own desire.

Speaker 6:
[09:16] Yeah. But that is like the privilege element of it, right? The other is like, I remember and my best friend knows this, where I'm like, it's midnight, but a girlie has to trek on the train because I can't afford that $60, $70 Uber to go back home. But in New York City, I have a rule for myself that at midnight, anytime after a certain time, I will always just Uber myself, right? And so moments like that where I'm like, in the grand scheme of things, was that how I want to, you know?

Speaker 5:
[09:49] You're saying that you are thinking of these financial calibrations in terms of like, even something that just makes you feel comfortable in the city you live in, like a way that you want to navigate New York for your own sense of safety. You were having to think like, okay, well, should I just walk or should I take the train when I normally wouldn't? Because my budget is so tight because of these weddings. These calculations were very clear to you.

Speaker 6:
[10:12] Yes. I mean, like limited dinners with friends, right? Because of these weddings, yeah. I mean, like I can't do birthday dinners. The birthday dinner dynamic sort of is like this uncovering of what a full bridesmaid bachelorette experience of itself is, right? Where everybody comes in, everybody has different income levels and statuses, and it's one girlie's birthday and we want to have a great time. There are the folks who come in and they're like, entre, appetizer, two cocktails, and just have fun, and really are there to enjoy and indulge. And then there's someone who's like, I'm here to support a friend and I want to be here and be proactive. And I'm getting an appetizer because that's truly what I could afford. And then you're splitting that bill evenly.

Speaker 5:
[10:59] That, mm-hmm. Sorry, I cut you off just because I'm like, uh-huh.

Speaker 6:
[11:03] But that bruised so much frustration and resentment. And I know friends who are like, I can't do group dinners anymore. And it's sad because I've heard the other version of a conversation where it's like, well, if you can't afford it and you're going to be the person who's just coming in for a salad, then like, don't be there. But I'm like, really?

Speaker 5:
[11:17] Well, then we think about the emotional support. This is so, I love this, the birthday dinner as metaphor for the experience of being a bridesmaid. This, I'm like, yeah, that is exactly it. And you outlined, you know, sort of the intricacies of a birthday dinner. And it's not only the cost, it's the emotional negotiation and the sort of, and the group dynamics and the individual relationships are at play, which I think are so important to highlight. Is there anything else before we move on from finances that we want to talk about costing for bridesmaids? Then I'm going to move on to emotional costs, but I'm like, we have to be missing something.

Speaker 6:
[11:52] No, we're, oh my gosh, we're missing so much. Travel, travel to the wedding.

Speaker 5:
[11:56] Accommodation at the wedding.

Speaker 6:
[11:58] Destination weddings.

Speaker 5:
[11:59] Travel to an accommodation at the bachelorette. Destination weddings. Yep.

Speaker 6:
[12:03] And some folks end up contributing to the bridal shower, right? If family is not covering that.

Speaker 5:
[12:07] Oh my gosh, bridal shower, yeah.

Speaker 6:
[12:09] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[12:09] I forgot about that.

Speaker 6:
[12:10] So bridal shower is very much a thing. I think people also forget the beauty element of it. It's like, you know, the girlie's got to get waxed. The girlie's got to get their eyebrows threaded and get a little facial. And so there's also like additional haircut, nails done.

Speaker 5:
[12:27] I'm pale. I'm pale. I'm pale. I need a horrible straight tan.

Speaker 6:
[12:30] You've got cameras and videos on you at all times. So you want to look your best. You want and there's always the prep work that we do. In that lead up, I think people forget about the fits for The Bachelorette as well. Sometimes you're required to do matching fits.

Speaker 5:
[12:46] Wait, so we have not talked about the outfits on The Bachelorette. Well, let's talk about that because there is, of course, again, there is a range. I've been to some bachelorettes where there's not a dress code in sight. I've been to other bachelorettes where it is outfit, I guess, recommendations, but not really. It's like requirements for each event. Speak on these matching outfits.

Speaker 6:
[13:13] I mean, it starts with the dress and then it goes all the way to the bachelorette of it all. Here's the thing. I love a good themed party and a good themed celebration. If you are saying, like, on Friday night, we're going to this fancy dinner spot in Miami, let's all wear black, Brides going to wear which, that's an easy, like, most of us have a little black dress in our closet. So that I don't think is the issue. I think when it comes down to like, I need you in this swimsuit that's this particular brand, and it's going to have lettering that says, you know, the hashtag and whatever the hashtag is for the couple.

Speaker 5:
[13:50] Or the husband's face.

Speaker 6:
[13:52] Or the husband's face. And then now we're down these rabbit holes of more cost, more spend. And then it becomes a, I need you in neon for this day. And you're like, I don't have neon. And I understand.

Speaker 5:
[14:06] I need you in floral. I said, I don't have that. But I now need to buy it.

Speaker 6:
[14:10] There you go.

Speaker 5:
[14:11] Yeah. It raises my stress level. It raises my stress level because also-

Speaker 6:
[14:15] Just thinking about it.

Speaker 5:
[14:16] Thinking about it. And there's a dual thing here too, which I wonder, I wonder if you experienced when you wrote this op-ed, which is, I'm saying all this and it's very emotionally true for me. And I'm also in the back of my mind being like, God, I don't want to sound like I don't love my friends. I don't want to sound like a bad friend, not a good supporter. I mean, female friendship is like one of the core tenets of my life. And I don't want to seem ungrateful for that, but this is the kind of psychic knot we find ourselves in, where it does feel financially and emotionally tough.

Speaker 6:
[14:50] Yeah. And I think you hit it. And here's the thing, I have been seeing this on-going internet battle of even around the wedding and the bridesmaid conversation, where folks, boundaries is like our favorite word these days. And the other side of the argument is like, what happens to showing up for the people that we love and community and friends? And yes, for a season, it might require you to do the most, but it is just for a season. And I hit two points on that in the book. One is like, you say that, but it is very much a revolving door for women. Because by the age of 27, the average woman is expected to be asked to be a bridesmaid three times, right? And the amount of people that I've talked to, they're like, oh, three is nothing. I've been a bridesmaid nine, 11 times. I'm like, oh, like, how does that happen? How many friends do you have?

Speaker 5:
[15:41] The revolving door, it keeps, but yeah, you're so...

Speaker 6:
[15:44] And the revolving door of asks, right? It's not of just like how many times I'm being asked to be a bridesmaid, but it's like, what am I being asked even in one role for one wedding? It's a revolving door of so many asks. And I think weddings have really lost the plot. And that really comes down to social media, that comes down to Pinterest, right? All these components that have really built this recipe of a melting pot of what the wedding industrial complex is now, which is something that is very visible to the world, right? A union of two, I think, was a lot more intimate is playing out now. And so all these nuances hit the bride, hit her for the first time, and you're watching your girlie navigate something, which I always sum it down to. I'm like, she's producing a huge event. And nine out of ten times, she's probably never produced an event before. And I speak from a career experience of producing events and being like, whew, I don't know.

Speaker 5:
[16:42] Wow.

Speaker 6:
[16:43] And they're doing that while juggling a nine to five, right? And then there's that trickle down effect, which is whatever stressor is hitting the bride, it's ultimately going to hit the bridesmaid. And I think people underestimate that element about it.

Speaker 5:
[16:56] Yeah, you're so, it's like, I guess weddings are always events, but it's like eventified with the capital E. You know what I mean? It's like a, yeah, it's so much, at least in my experience, it's an outward kind of performance. And of course there are very authentic feelings, but yeah, the performance aspect is good to note. I want to go back to this letter. I was like, why did this particular moment that you wrote this letter, published it, why did it feel like your breaking point? What had tipped over the edge?

Speaker 6:
[17:23] For me, by the third wedding, like finishing off the third wedding and coming back to New York and being like, yeah, I didn't enjoy any of this. And there were pockets and moments of the wedding and seeing the people that I love find their partner, like celebrating that I enjoyed, but I was like, there was too many nuances where I didn't feel like myself or I compromised myself. So I feel like it wasn't from a place of bitterness, but from a place of clarity, I wanted to show up for my friends differently. So I thought for me, it was writing the piece was partly me processing that shift, right? But also, if I'm being honest, it was a way of making it real. There was something about putting a boundary in writing that makes it harder to walk away from, you know? And I knew that if I had just said it to a few friends, another friend could convince me into being a bridesmaid or I backtrack on it. And so I was like, once it's on there and it's public, I'm serious. I am never being a bridesmaid again. And it wasn't just a personal story. It was something a lot of people were living through quietly, which I think women continue to do that, right? Especially in friendships.

Speaker 5:
[18:29] Yes. Yes. Yes.

Speaker 6:
[18:31] Which is overextend ourselves and just slap love, loyalty and support around it.

Speaker 5:
[18:42] Stay with us.

Speaker 1:
[18:46] This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Spring always feels like a reset. Clearing things out, simplifying what you don't need. Apple Card is built with that same idea in mind. No annual fee, no late fees and no foreign transaction fees. No fees, period. Get started and apply in the Wallet App on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.49% to 27.74% based on credit worthiness. Rates as of January 1st, 2026. Existing customers can view their variable APR in the Wallet App or at card.apple.com. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 5:
[20:47] So, we talked about the financial cost, and we've also spoken on, I wanna go a bit deeper into the emotional lift required very often of bridesmaids. And you know, this was really driven home in your letter, your resignation letter, and in your book, where you talk about one specific friendship, where your experience at the wedding really caused a strain on the friendship. Can you tell me that story? Ooh, yeah.

Speaker 6:
[21:12] So essentially, best friend who I navigated undergrad with met freshman year, and as anyone can say about, those are very much like beautiful years of a lot of unlearning, a lot of discovery, and I think we grew up into adulthood together, so there's just that beautiful sort of core understanding of like, this person has seen me in the lows and this person has seen me in the highs, right? I think the nuance of her wedding that sort of was different from the other two was that her...

Speaker 5:
[21:47] This is one of the three, this is the one of the three that you had...

Speaker 6:
[21:50] The traditional was separated from the Western White by a year, so it meant travel happening twice, cost happening separately, right?

Speaker 5:
[22:01] Two different ceremonies, gotcha.

Speaker 6:
[22:02] Two different ceremonies. And so the first one, West Coast, which was the traditional, very backyard-esque wedding, I think 50 tops is how many folks it was. Friends were truly just bridal party. Anybody outside of bridal party was family.

Speaker 5:
[22:18] Intimate, small.

Speaker 6:
[22:19] Very intimate, no dress code. It was like spring, wear some traditional wear. And she was like, can you do my makeup? I was like, absolutely. Can you trust me to do your face for your big day? And she was like, that's how much this is very much like, you know, I was able to show up a few days early to like help set up. And so yet again, trying to find ways to be able to support in the ways that I can.

Speaker 5:
[22:46] It sounds intimate. It sounds not as Instagrammy to use it. You know, it doesn't sound as like...

Speaker 6:
[22:53] Oh, it wasn't Instagrammed at all, at all. She didn't even Instagram it at all. When I tell you, that gives you that like... Photos probably never made it to the internet. Like it was very intimate. And it wasn't like a nobody post, but like that wasn't how she was moving. That wasn't the goal. We did utilize that weekend to prep for the Western wedding of it all. So she went dress shopping. We tagged along. I think we all teared up.

Speaker 5:
[23:20] Yeah, I know. I know that feeling. I mean, there is there's something that overtakes you. It's like it's full body. It's like, oh my God.

Speaker 6:
[23:27] I'm a crier. I'm a crier. I'm a crier. I'm a crier now.

Speaker 5:
[23:31] It's like, you know, just remembering this. I sat with my sister with that. It's like, oh my God, I love you. You are so beautiful. I'm so happy to be here with you for this. Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[23:41] And we were able to also, which I think the beauty of how she handled this, I commend her for it at the time. And it was, let's all in person go and try on dresses and find one, because she was very much the person.

Speaker 5:
[23:57] Bridesmaid dresses, wow, that's really nice too. That has never happened for me before. Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[24:01] And for her, it was because she wanted us all in the same style, color. It was like, let's all collectively agree. Let's have everybody try it on. We went, tried it on, and all ultimately decided on a dress that we all felt great in. Did I love the dress? No. But I was like, was I able to participate to some capacity? Absolutely.

Speaker 5:
[24:24] And will you ever love a bridesmaid dress? I'd say probably not. But if you feel like it's passable, even the color is okay. I feel like that's a win. And the fact that you guys did it as a collective, it does just seem like in a lot of these elements, she's kind of doing it differently than other weddings. Okay. You have this traditional ceremony that's low key from everything you're telling me, very collaborative, pretty relaxed. And then a year later, you have this Western wedding. Tell me about that when it came time for that. What was that like?

Speaker 6:
[24:50] So in the build up to that, I remember the Maid of Honor being like, hey, no pressure right now to buy the dress. When we were trying on dresses, you'll get essentially a text from me, since this is not for another year out.

Speaker 5:
[25:03] Sure.

Speaker 6:
[25:03] I'll let you know when to order and we'll go from there. We're like, great, sounds good. And I remember receiving a text in the lead up from the Maid of Honor being like, hey ladies, time to order the dress. And there was like a small note that essentially said, small change of plans, here's like the new style, right? And in my mind, I was like, there's no way it was like anything drastically different from what we had initially all agreed on.

Speaker 5:
[25:30] Cause you all tried it on together.

Speaker 4:
[25:31] Yeah. Oh, it was.

Speaker 6:
[25:33] So if I remember correctly, like it had sort of like that tank top square neckline was what we decided on. And this one right here, like completely high neck.

Speaker 5:
[25:44] That is a very different silhouette.

Speaker 6:
[25:45] I felt like a five-year-old in a like flower girl dress, but for an adult, like that's essentially how that dress is completely constructed.

Speaker 5:
[25:53] And you hadn't tried it on. So, and these are, again...

Speaker 6:
[25:56] And the color had changed as well. It went from like a burnt orange to a cinnamon. And even though the color change wasn't drastic, that undertone was completely different than what we had initially tried on. And it's funny because it's the group dynamic, the group chat of it all, where you're sitting there and you're like, is someone going to say something? Like, what was the point of all that? Like, what was the point of two hours? No one said anything. It just chucks up to the whole, I guess this is the style that she wants, and it's her day, so what she wants is what she wants.

Speaker 5:
[26:28] You know, I understand why no one would want to text like, hey, bride, can you explain this change? Because it feels inappropriate. This is her day, and you know, what she says goes. So the group chat remains silent. The dress is different.

Speaker 6:
[26:44] So the dress was different, but like I said, the same way I didn't speak out in that text message conversation, I was like, girl, this is a different color than we expected. And even then, she didn't say anything. And so I was like, we'll make it work. Of course, had to pay for tailoring and alterations. And I think that probably cost me 80 bucks. And then in the lead up to the wedding, I remember we just had like a small quick chat, and she was like, hey, Ruh, what's the plan for your hair for my wedding? And I had it naturally curly at the time. And I was like, oh, probably something like this. She was like, oh, great. That was the end of that conversation. Only reason I remember it is because I had to kind of look back in hindsight and be like, wait, what happened? What went wrong? And I want to say probably a few weeks before the wedding, we get a shared notes app, similar to like how people would utilize a Google Doc, which is like, here's all the things you need to know, ladies, like at your fingertips, which is, here's all the addresses, here's all the timings.

Speaker 5:
[27:45] The big doc, I've gotten many of them.

Speaker 6:
[27:48] So it's like, you have no, there's no questions because all the answers are in the shared notes app and it says you got it. So the part that I saw it, I glanced through it, did not even think through it, was this hair piece, which was essentially saying, here's the do's and don'ts for hair, which was like no slick back. She clearly, slick back bun, ponytail, no braids. She really wanted it to be either down or half up, half down. That's what she wanted the hair to be. Then it said, preferably lean into your natural textures, and then of course, wanted it curly, right? My mind, I was like, it's going to be down, it's going to be curly, all as well.

Speaker 5:
[28:30] Got you. I want to just pause to in case anyone, these kinds of stipulations, whatever you want to call it, that's not rare, in my experience. These docs contain, your shoes should not look like this, they should look like this. Your hair, yeah, no slick back, but also no down. Yeah, it's really detailed.

Speaker 6:
[28:53] Very detailed, down to nail color, no red lipstick. Nude shoes, open toe versus closed toe, versus don't come in with six inch stilettos, because you might be taller than where we have you standing, so there are so many nuances that people forget about.

Speaker 5:
[29:11] And because you'd had so many of these, I understand why you look at that in the Notes app, and you're already looking at the time I have to be at the makeup and at 7 a.m., and so you're like, okay.

Speaker 6:
[29:21] And then here comes the little left turn that I made, which was essentially that I extended my LA trip to the West Coast, and that essentially, anytime I'm traveling for long periods of time, especially over a week, a girlie does not want to take so many products and pack all that. So in my mind, I was like, she wants it down, she wants it curly, let me straighten my hair, and then I'll curl it. Did not think twice about it, and I remember sitting at the dress rehearsal the night before, and we were in the church, and I kid you not, one of the bridesmaids sitting next to me, which it's hysterical at this point, and it's all love, but it was just like, dynamics and tension had happened, and fallout had happened post undergrad, but the beauty of truly that wedding that happened the year prior was...

Speaker 5:
[30:12] The first, the traditional ceremony.

Speaker 6:
[30:14] Was us really coming together and being like, we're grown women, we're here celebrating someone that we all truly love, and we kind of fell back to old ways and catching old jokes, right? Running down memory lane. And so she felt comfortable to be like, Ruh, are you getting preferential treatment? And I was like, come again. Like... About what? Yeah. Thank you. And she was like, your hair, it's not supposed to be straightened. And I, this is where sometimes I operate in Dilulu, because just being observational, both of them were very much in their natural state of hair, right? Which like, not to get into dynamics, but like as black women, not everyone is going fully natural when it comes to like gala style events. And moments, and so I remember being like, wait, did I do something wrong? And she was like, because I was like, I clearly missed a memo, like there's clearly a gap. And she was like, we were told we couldn't strain our hair. She wanted it natural, natural. And I was like, oh.

Speaker 5:
[31:17] And you thought back to the note and you were like, shit.

Speaker 6:
[31:19] I didn't even think back to that note. In that moment, I was like, what? And I'm like, where is this notes app? Like, did I read it wrong? Because I remember I just, all I took was curly, either half up, half down, or down. And I was like, and I'm hitting those notes, right?

Speaker 5:
[31:35] Right. It was straightened, but then you had curled it. So it was curly.

Speaker 6:
[31:37] Essentially.

Speaker 5:
[31:38] This bridesmaids thing was like, did you get special dispensation to straighten your hair and then curl it as opposed to having it natural?

Speaker 6:
[31:45] Because they were told that they couldn't straighten their hair. But also, I learned that because they were also asking questions that clearly I wasn't asking questions, right? Like they were probing to be like, let's just to triple check what we read is correct. Like, is this what you want? And so they got that clarification. For me, the clarification, I guess, happened on my birthday when she had asked and she had checked it. She's like, oh, I don't need to have this conversation with Ruh because she's usually natural and curly.

Speaker 5:
[32:12] So when you are like kind of playfully, but also sort of not playfully called out for not doing this thing right or with the bride, how the bride wanted.

Speaker 6:
[32:24] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[32:25] I can put myself in your shoes and I would feel really bad.

Speaker 6:
[32:28] Oh, I felt like shit. People please are here, right? And so that's when the dress rehearsal ended and we were about to go to dinner. I was like, I'm going to chat with her. And so they followed the bride with the bride, caught her in the in the parking lot. And I was like, hey, boo, did I did I do something wrong? And the conversation was so quick. The response was so quick. But when I tell you that conversation like lingered because it was a quick no room, like it was supposed to be straightened. And she was like, can we now go to dinner? And that was the end of that. Right. And it wasn't coming across as like there was no like attitude or anything. She was just like, yeah, you missed the memo. But like, can we keep pushing? Because like, what are we about to do? Sit here and have a conversation about hair? Like that's, I think, what she was trying to come across. In that moment, I was like, oh, because now I'm okay. So then I proceed to go to the car and then it becomes this like unraveling of me processing everything.

Speaker 5:
[33:28] Yeah, what were you processing? Like bring me into your mind. Because ostensibly, if you hear that conversation, you may be like, okay, that doesn't seem maybe so intense, but there's clearly emotional weight here. So tell me about that, what was that?

Speaker 6:
[33:39] I think what I was hoping in that parking lot is I really wish I got sort of just that quick, girl, yes, that's not how your hair is supposed to be, but it's irrelevant, you're here. Like that's all that matters, I love you. Like let's move on, right? I think if I got some kind of affirmation that it was not a big deal or it was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, because I'm like, child, if I told you how much I spent to be here, now for the second time, and like this conversation just left me feeling even more confused, like where was the miscommunication? And like, damn, this made me feel like shit, but like I don't think her intention was to make me feel like shit. And I washed out my hair for the next day. And it's not to like add insult to injury, but it's when you have your hair straightened and you try to bring back your curl patterns within less than 24 hours, it takes a minute, the volume is not the same. So in the grand scheme of things, did a girl feel like a baddie on top of that neckline? Like on top of that neckline? I was like, no, I'm sorry. I felt like a five year old.

Speaker 5:
[34:50] And in the cinnamon?

Speaker 6:
[34:51] No, I felt like a five year old at that wedding. To the point where people...

Speaker 5:
[34:55] Wait, to the point where people were saying you look like a five year old?

Speaker 6:
[34:57] No, just even in this press tour of this book, I'm like, no one's gonna see a daylight of these photos. Because I'm like, I don't feel like myself all the way in it. Which is so sad to say because that was her goal. And I found that out so late in the game when we were sort of having...

Speaker 5:
[35:18] Her goal was for you to feel like yourself.

Speaker 6:
[35:20] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[35:21] I'm taking all this in because again, it's like we were saying with the dress, it's about the dress and it's not about the dress. It's about the hair and it's not about the hair. When you were in the car having this emotional reaction to your friend's comment, which as you're saying, it's not said in any kind of like dismiss. It was short. It was, yeah, you didn't, that wasn't right. I didn't ask for that or whatever the exact words are. But this was emotional for you because-

Speaker 6:
[35:49] And she didn't ask me to wash out my hair, right?

Speaker 5:
[35:51] She didn't ask you. It's important. But it's because and what I hear you say is, it's because it put the emphasis on the hair, as opposed to the friendship, the love, the support. And so you tell me, but it sounds like it felt like, huh, is all this other stuff I've done, all this love, all these years of, for real?

Speaker 4:
[36:10] Like hair?

Speaker 5:
[36:11] Is that how it felt?

Speaker 6:
[36:12] Yeah. And it sort of started hitting on it, which is when we finally had sort of like the unraveling and getting to the root of the conversation, she kind of took it back to freshman year, undergrad days, which was like, remember that we struggled to be fully natural and then we had to go through that journey together and like she practically shaved her head and I chopped it all the way like right below my ears and learned essentially how to navigate our curls together and that was such a beautiful journey. And for her, this was like a celebration of it, but none of that was communicated. And I was like, child, if you had told me all this, I would have shut up. And I don't think she's trying to be a bad friend and I don't think she's a bad friend. I don't process this as her being a bad friend. It really, I think if anything, solidified for me that I was like, none of this, like being in this role, experiencing any of this made me feel great about myself. So I have to kind of take myself out of this. And that's where I was like, now I feel like I can for sure say, I don't want to be a bridesmaid again.

Speaker 5:
[37:19] There you go.

Speaker 6:
[37:20] Not because of the hair of it all, but it was more so of just being able to say, this role puts me in a position where I feel like I can't even be my full self, let alone vocalize my boundaries. So maybe choosing not to participate is probably the move moving forward. Cause I clearly felt there was no moment, even when she was like, girl, I'm your best friend. Like, why couldn't you tell me in all these moments that you were feeling this or you couldn't afford this? Like, and I was like, I couldn't, I don't know. Like it felt like someone had put duct tape over my mouth, but it's because when you're in these group dynamics, when everybody has said it is her moment, her day, her season, and you're telling us in the ways you want us to pour in and champion you and support you in this time, I'm like, I just was, okay, that's what she wants.

Speaker 5:
[38:12] Yes. I mean, the duct tape imagery is really, it's like you couldn't say something because the boundaries of the role do not encourage that kind of dialogue that could be seen as pushback. And it's interesting because it's like in this moment of you going through this experience, washing out your hair, showing up to this wedding in a way that didn't make you feel physically great or even like emotionally yourself. That's when you come back, that's when you decide to write that resignation letter.

Speaker 6:
[38:43] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[38:44] Did your friend read it and how did she react if so?

Speaker 6:
[38:47] So she said something that kind of like really stuck with me, which is, Ruh, I thought we were close enough. And she was like, I guess when you think about a friendship, there's two POVs, right? Like there's the version where there's a relationship that you see and the relationship that she sees. And for her, she was like, I thought you can come to me at any time of like anything I like we're experiencing. If I've in any shape and form made you uncomfortable, I always just figured we would be vocal about it because we have that friendship. But there is, I mean, there's huge learnings from it in the sense of being able to really, because I'm like, she had a point. If you say this is somebody that you're super close to and someone you are yourself around and someone who knows the darkest secrets of yours, I'm like, those people that I can confidently say the same for, I can probably, in real time, be like, girlie, this is not sitting well with me. Can we take a beat and take a pause? And I'm sure that a lot of folks can say that for their best friends in their core community. I still think that there is something about weddings that really just silence us up in a way where you don't know until you're in it and you're like, ooh.

Speaker 5:
[40:05] Do you still maintain that you will not be a bridesmaid anymore?

Speaker 6:
[40:10] Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I'm like, I would never put myself through that again. And it's funny because people are like, what if your sister asks you?

Speaker 5:
[40:17] Yeah. Well, that's my question. Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[40:19] And she's very much like, you do not have to worry about me. I will be the girl who doesn't have bridesmaids, right? And I feel like there is a little bit of that wave coming about. I don't imagine having bridesmaids myself. And-

Speaker 5:
[40:31] That was one of my last questions, but you answered it now.

Speaker 6:
[40:33] There you go. I will know I will not have bridesmaids. But there is a part in the book that I write and I say, I'm not above this, right? Like when I tell you, I am sure if you give a mic to any of my close friends and sisters and cousins, they'd be like, she's a fraud. In the sense that I am so big on weddings. Like I was the girl-

Speaker 5:
[40:55] Interesting.

Speaker 6:
[40:56] Yes, I know. I know.

Speaker 5:
[40:58] So you don't like being a bridesmaid, but you do love weddings. And this is why humans are so amazing is because they're full of apparent contradictions.

Speaker 6:
[41:04] Yes, we're complex.

Speaker 5:
[41:10] We'll be right back.

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Speaker 5:
[43:21] What do you love about weddings?

Speaker 6:
[43:22] Okay, I mean, I blame media, television. It's just the things that has just been sort of engraved in us at a very early age. Whether it's the Disney princesses, the coming to America, the TLC, right? The four weddings. It's so funny because I look back and I'm like, I really was treating my friend's weddings as like four weddings, because I was like, it's like a great example of how to know what to do, what not to do, but...

Speaker 5:
[43:52] It's like these weddings meant something to you.

Speaker 6:
[43:55] Absolutely.

Speaker 5:
[43:55] They meant something beyond the... What do they mean? Like, why were you drawn to them?

Speaker 6:
[44:00] I mean, we as women, I definitely look at relationship and life differently now, but at the time, I always... I think the biggest core belief that I have is like, who you choose to spend the rest of your life with is like one of the biggest decisions you will make, right? And so, when you think back to like high school, the girly moments of like wanting your friends and the people that you love to find that, right? And then when they find it in a way where you're just like, oh, this is their person.

Speaker 5:
[44:34] You are into weddings because...

Speaker 6:
[44:36] Oh, I'm a helpless romantic. I love love, yes.

Speaker 5:
[44:40] You're into love, which might not sound so radical. It's like, yeah, duh, weddings are about love, but it's like your book and your resignation letter and this conversation have showed that there are all these layers of other stuff that's wrapping this core of the event, which is love, right? And so you could not want to be a bridesmaid, but still feel so drawn and committed and in love with the love of a wedding. Okay, I want to, like, I feel you've spent so much time immersed in this topic, both personally and now professionally. You've written this book called I Hope You Elope. In this book, you have a bunch of tips and advice for people. So if someone gets asked to be a bridesmaid, what should they ask themselves before saying yes?

Speaker 6:
[45:28] They have several questions to ask themselves. I think one is really being honest about their capacity, whether that is just strictly do you have the PTO, right? And also understanding the season you're in, because life stressors happen, like are you in a career transition? Are you out of a job? Are you about to have a baby? Like there's so many nuances that you have to consider for yourself. And then truly asking yourself financially, are you able to take this on? You need to have your gap and your grace, right? Like if you are telling yourself, I can come in and spend 250 on a bridesmaid dress, what is also that wiggle room that you have to either go up 100, go up 50, and that is your boundary. And once you calculate the full cost after kind of running through everything, you can then be like, okay, I can probably participate as a bridesmaid, I just probably can't tap into a bachelorette, especially if it's a destination one. Then that sort of sets you up to be able to have these honest conversations up front, right? When you do say yes, and there is something of how our culture has made the bridesmaid proposal of it all, whether that is a phone call, a text, that you just automatically- A basket, a proposal box, right? That you are automatically going to say yes if the ask comes to you, right?

Speaker 5:
[46:48] Yeah. It doesn't feel like there's an option to say no.

Speaker 6:
[46:51] We are literally told that there's no option to say no because on the flip side of saying no is that friendship is completely over after the fact, right? That is just the assumption. That's what's brewing under. But you were not supposed to be showing up as a bridesmaid for every single person that asks you to be a bridesmaid because in the same ways that there is that nuance of showing up for somebody you haven't talked to in a long time, you're also asking, why are they asking you to be a bridesmaid? Are they just filling in this fifth person spot that they need because their partner has a fifth person as well? And so now you're feeling resentment and frustration on a whole nother level because why are you doing this for somebody who honestly just needed you as a placeholder and you, fortunately, with a fool like said, yes, because no, I have to be so real in that of being able to say like, if it was even difficult in some moments for me showing up for the people that are like top tier, my community and my core friends and family, I can't imagine what you're feeling for somebody you're like, they're asking me to spend a thousand dollars and I haven't talked to them in years.

Speaker 5:
[48:00] If you run the numbers like you're saying, and not only numbers, you weigh the financial costs, very specifically, you think about the emotional costs, where you are in your life, like you said, in terms of stress, can we add this other emotional lift on top? If you do all those things and the answer that you arrive at is, I actually can't do this, I don't have the capacity, I'm not able. How do you recommend that someone do this thing we're told you cannot do, which is say no, turn down this invitation?

Speaker 6:
[48:27] I think the best way to say no is to do it early and do it clearly, and make it about what's real. Not what sounds nice, right? Sometimes it's, I love you, and I'm so honored you asked me, but I need to be honest that I can't be a bridesmaid in the way this role requires, or the season really requires, and then you say what that is, right? Whether that's financially, boo, this is literally where I'm at, or logistically, or you know I'm juggling family stuff right now, especially being responsible for so-and-so's health. Like when the truth comes in, right? Like the specifics matter, especially when it's a close friend asking you to stand next to her on one of the biggest days of her life, because a vague no can feel more hurtful than an honest one, right? And then give her, I would say give her truly like something true to hold on to, right? And I say that to say like, I still want to celebrate you, be there for the wedding and support you in a way I can actually show up well for, right?

Speaker 5:
[49:31] So it's like, I really like that because it's actionable. It's respond early, don't delay because you feel bad or because you're, so respond as early as possible, so potential replacement can be found if needed, although we just kind of talked about problems with that. But so respond early, be specific and honest because this is, it's not a secret why you can't do it, so be honest. And then you're saying to, what was the last thing you were saying? Be honest and specific.

Speaker 6:
[49:59] And then also just the way I worded it was like give them something, something true she can hold on to, right? Because I think saying no and just letting her sit with that is like a oof.

Speaker 5:
[50:10] Give her a different way that, like propose a different way that you are able to show up. And I like those, I mean, let's think too about some actual, so it's going to the fitting, obviously being at the wedding. Maybe it's even like you and I, I don't know, I'm just spitballing here, but it's like maybe we go for dinner and I buy you dinner. That is different than like, I don't know, to celebrate just you and me.

Speaker 6:
[50:30] Or we could do a spa date together. And like, whenever like you tell me a date and we can do a spa date, my treat, and it could essentially be, when it feels like the stressors are really kicking in, I will be your reprieve for you, right?

Speaker 5:
[50:43] Why don't I come to your hair and makeup trial? Cause you always need another set of eyes to let you know if that cat eye is too much. You know what I mean? It's like, I really like that. Here's this other way that I feel like I have the capacity to show up for you. Let's say if someone is, runs all the numbers, runs the emotional cost as well, says, okay, yes, I do want to do this. I'm excited to do this. Does it? And things start to feel tricky on The Bachelorette or with a dress or with like in the moment, you've already said yes, you've committed and things start to feel weird. What are some ways that we can deescalate that don't include like crying in your room in the Hampton Inn in Sweden? It's like, what's a, how can we deescalate?

Speaker 6:
[51:22] So anytime you're already deep in the role and you're noticing things sort of piling up, this is very much the moment to be able to then say, very similar to the first advice, speak and speak early. And...

Speaker 5:
[51:34] Scary though.

Speaker 6:
[51:35] Very scary. And I think this is why I'm like, I truly hope that this book sort of gives people sort of this like shield, because I'm like, once people start talking, hopefully it becomes a little bit of the norm to be able to say, hey, can we pause for a second? I love you and I want to be able to continue showing up for you and supporting you. I cannot afford tomorrow's yacht adventure. I'm going to sit this one out. Tell me how do you feel about that? Can we just sort of approach it as if it is a dialogue? You don't want to come in with hard nose, just be like, hey, I didn't expect this to come at me the way it has financially. I've been able to keep up up until this point, but right now that's going to just throw me a little over the edge. I can't swipe that credit card and go into debt for a yacht, although I love you. There's humor and reality that can all kind of overlap and coexist. And I think true friends will just come back and be like, girly, I hear you. If you want to sit it out, sit it out. If not, I think people also underestimate the world of, if the bride can afford it, she'd be like, say less. I can cover that. I have heard of stories where it's like, I just wear the dress and show up. I don't need you to be anywhere else. I don't need you to pay for anything else. Just wear the dress and show up.

Speaker 5:
[52:55] Yeah. I mean, it does strike me that there's a real importance of obviously approaching, and this is kind of like in any conflict, right? But in this context, it really does feel kind of radical to me because of it is so breaking the norm of not speaking up. So it's approach early, lead with compassion and truth.

Speaker 6:
[53:15] And timing and tone are everything, right? Like you don't call her unreasonable. Like you name what's not working, right? You don't go in and be like, child, you are the issue. You say, I love you and I want this to feel good for everyone. But this part feels like a lot. Can we find a version that's more realistic, whether that's you posing it to like change the entire group activity, or if that's because you'd be surprised once one person chimes in, then other person's like, okay, I was thinking the same thing, right?

Speaker 5:
[53:46] This is what I'm going to say. It's like opening a little, it's like the conversation you're starting with this article in your book, and hopefully even this conversation too, I think it like opens a little window and lets in a little air.

Speaker 6:
[53:57] It does.

Speaker 5:
[53:58] And I do think there will be a kind of, I hope like a domino effect in the best way, not of people declining these things willy-nilly, but being able to accept this role of bridesmaid in a full, excited, loving way that is within their means, right? That like, that allows them to be themselves in this role.

Speaker 6:
[54:20] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[54:21] Ruhama Wolle, thank you so much for this conversation.

Speaker 6:
[54:24] Thank you, Anna. What a pleasure. I'm like, truly one of my favorite conversations in a minute.

Speaker 5:
[54:33] If you'd like to read Ruhama's Bridesmaid Resignation Letter, we'll have the link in our show notes. The Modern Love team is Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Lynn Levy, Riva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Sarah Curtis and Riva Goldberg. It was edited by Lynn Levy. Our mix engineer was Daniel Ramirez. Original music in this episode by Rowan Nimisto, Pat McCusker, and Dan Powell. Dan also composed our theme music. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones, and Miya Lee is the editor of Modern Love projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3:
[55:28] She knows. How? Did you blab?

Speaker 2:
[55:29] No.

Speaker 3:
[55:30] The Devil Wears Prada 2 is the movie event 20 years in the making.

Speaker 2:
[55:34] I honestly can't with the secrets anymore, so I think we just, we should tell her.

Speaker 6:
[55:38] Will you two please spit it out already?

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 1:
[55:45] In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility.

Speaker 2:
[55:48] Oh, cause we're a team now?

Speaker 6:
[55:50] That's a nice story.

Speaker 3:
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