transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:13] Just tell the manager you'll sue.

Speaker 1:
[00:16] Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with Kayak, and get your trip right.

Speaker 2:
[00:23] Bad advice? You talking to me?

Speaker 1:
[00:25] Kayak, got that right.

Speaker 3:
[00:30] Which would you rather consume for an hour? One, listen to Geese. Two, clavicular live streams. Three, Iran AI propaganda. Or, yeah, let's leave it at those three.

Speaker 4:
[00:47] When you asked me about what I wanted to talk about today, I threw a bunch of things at you, but did not explain in any way, I think, how they are connected. So, we should probably start there. But in terms of your question, if I had to rank them, I would say clavicular clips, then Iran war propaganda, and then listen to Geese. I don't enjoy Gen Z burnout music. I think it's very boring.

Speaker 3:
[01:16] I've become a Geese fan.

Speaker 4:
[01:17] Yeah, that's not surprising. Like, you're chasing... You're well into some sort of midlife crisis territory. That makes sense. Geese to me sounds like a dishwasher that broke, or like, they're the musical equivalent of when you try on your dad's clothes as a kid, you know, and you like walk around in his big shoes.

Speaker 3:
[01:52] I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I just, it falls on our spectrum. Like, there's a lot of, we have a lot of overlap, and then you go more pop punk Scotty than I do, and then I'm on like the indie sad boy train. And they're from a lot of those inferences.

Speaker 4:
[02:10] To call them sad, I think is ridiculous. I find nothing emotional about their music. And I have felt this way about every Brooklyn hipster band du jour going back since I can remember. I don't find anything interesting about the kind of like.

Speaker 3:
[02:25] What about Big Thief?

Speaker 4:
[02:26] Yeah, I mean, whatever, man.

Speaker 3:
[02:27] OK, yeah, say what about the Black Keys?

Speaker 4:
[02:29] Like all of this stuff is just like very boring to me. They're just yeah, Geese is fine. I like their I like their instrumentation. I don't I don't love the vocals.

Speaker 3:
[02:37] Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to get it. It's all right. I I have a bonus question for you. Would you rather listen to an hour of Geese or an hour of Lena Dunham's audio book?

Speaker 4:
[02:51] Lena Dunham's audio book, absolutely. For the stuff that I've been reading from, it is wild. I think she's look, one of the greatest jump scares of my pop cultural life was finishing the first episode of industry and seeing Lena Dunham directed it. And I was like, yeah, Lena Dunham can throw heaters. Like people forget that like she is good. Like I am I am Lena Dunham is annoying, but that's fine. But she makes really good stuff. I think I fell off of girls though.

Speaker 3:
[03:22] I'm Grant Irving. This is Panic World, a show about how the Internet warps our minds, our culture and eventually reality. And joining me, a man who is not geese maxing, a man that is not sad, swaying, mogging at the club, Ryan Broderick.

Speaker 4:
[03:38] Who says geese is sad? I don't understand. What are you talking about? I don't get it.

Speaker 3:
[03:43] Yeah. Yeah, that is how you probably would think about it. It's all right, though. Like we can just we can just move on.

Speaker 4:
[03:49] The reason I brought up these three things to you and you're like, we should do a bonus is because I have a theory I've been cooking on and it is related to much of this. But first, I want to I want to I want to take control.

Speaker 3:
[04:01] Shocking.

Speaker 1:
[04:02] Shocking.

Speaker 4:
[04:03] I'm going to be showing you things. So first, I want to show you this incredible document that I've discovered. Can you see what this is?

Speaker 3:
[04:10] If I if I move real close to my screen.

Speaker 4:
[04:12] So basically, this is kick users ranked by clips in a month, the amount of clips produced. Clavicular is 2.2 billion views, 69,000 videos, 6,800 clippers. Nino Drama is 880,000. No, 880 million. Wow, these view counts are insane. These view counts are aggregate across all of the clips, by the way.

Speaker 3:
[04:37] So they're just our contemporaries. That's what you're saying.

Speaker 4:
[04:40] Yeah. Asmongold is in here. Aiden Ross is in here. We should probably do an episode on him at some point. A lot of these people I've never heard of. I have no idea who Nino Drama is. Oh, Neon, I'm familiar with. He's a scumbag. We should probably do an episode about him. This is a chart that Clavicular shared himself. And I wanted to start there because I think this is probably the most accurate way to think about popularity on the Internet right now. And it's in line with my personal belief that the minute something on the Internet has a name, it is effectively already over. So the minute a meme has a name, the meme is probably dead. The minute there's some sort of strategy or growth hack or like meta that people are doing, I would like to talk about the end. Well, I guess we could talk about the beginning first. But I think the short form video economy is about to collapse. And I think it is happening as we speak. I think this is all shifting because everyone has figured it out, which is that the key to virality is to pay thousands of people, typically in the global south, that you find on Discord to make clips of your content and flood video platforms with them. And it's not working anymore. I think it's gonna start not working more.

Speaker 3:
[06:07] That does make sense. We should discuss that. We should also discuss Clavicular's crash out. And I'm curious if those two things are related and the state of streamers. But my first question is, the idea that like once something has a name, once something is memeified, it's already dead. Is that new?

Speaker 4:
[06:30] No. I think it goes back all the way.

Speaker 3:
[06:34] I think it's just like how fast it died is what's changed. The speed at which from meme to living thing is just getting shorter and shorter. This is actually what I want to talk to you, so they feed into each other, but we'll save that.

Speaker 4:
[06:49] So Adam and I, our intrepid researcher, we're trying to put a date. We become obsessed with figuring out periods of time. When was the first thing that would count as the thing we're talking about? Andrew Tate is probably the first Clipper. In 2022, he creates a moral panic in the UK because he has this fan club called Hustlers University, and he's making the fan club pay him for the privilege to share his clips on TikTok. What that does is very specific to TikTok. So TikTok is obsessed with trends, or it used to be. We don't really have enough data yet on US TikTok to know if it's operating the same way. But TikTok Classic, it wasn't really concerned with massive viral videos. It wasn't really trying to create a Gangnam style. What it was trying to do was create a trend where everyone would participate in a Gangnam style. So Andrew Tate's Clippers accidentally caused Andrew Tate to be recognized by the algorithm as a trend. It sort of recognized like, oh, Andrew Tate is some sort of thing that people are participating in because this algorithm doesn't have any thoughts or feel, it doesn't understand.

Speaker 3:
[08:02] So like Andrew Tate was a dance.

Speaker 4:
[08:04] I think that's exactly the right way to think about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[08:06] And so what would the Tate dance be, Ryan?

Speaker 4:
[08:09] Smoking a hookah while counting money, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[08:12] Commenters, come up with an Andrew Tate dance.

Speaker 4:
[08:15] Don't do that. Don't come up with an alleged sex trafficker dance. So yeah, like Andrew Tate gets turned into what is effectively a TikTok dance on a platform level. Meanwhile, X has like no safeguards for this stuff. So and Instagram seems to prioritize like different, different things. Like it's not really as trend focused. But this is basically created a landscape where between 2022 and now, so about four years, clipping has been running the Internet and controlling everything we sort of see and think about as whether it's popular or not. It has only been in the last six to nine months that people have finally figured it out, come to a consensus and named it. I don't think that's a short time at all, actually. I think that's like it took a while. Whereas something like planking, you know, people were doing it. It gets a name and it dies pretty quick. Like or oh, another video trend like this would have been like during the pandemic when people were like eating food out of toilet bowls and stuff and like pissing people off on Facebook. Like these trends come around and the really successful ones get a name. And so yeah, we are in the midst of a clipping apocalypse. And I think once everyone figures out that's the game. Platforms usually have to step in because if enough people are doing the same trick, it starts to basically be a form of spam.

Speaker 3:
[09:40] What I meant by that was like by the time everyone is gesture maxing at the club, like by the time it's taken from the real clip and it has reached people, it feels saturated and exhausted. You're saying the clicking phenomena took forever. I'm saying that like the culture that the clips were creating felt dead upon arrival. Oh, the distance between like, oh, did you hear about this new thing? And that thing is already so old, I can't believe you're even talking about that thing still. That feels shorter and shorter in late stage clipping is how I meant it.

Speaker 4:
[10:18] I think that's right. I mean, I definitely think part of the problem is the gamified like paola structure of clipping has meant that a lot of things that have no real interests for people, no real juice are being talked about to a disproportionate degree. So it's creating a lot of moments where everyone's talking about something, but they're confused as to why. So you're getting a lot of incendiary offensive, very polarizing content rising at the top right now. It's also making people very paranoid, which is what caused the whole geese thing this month, which culminated in, I thought, a fairly boneheaded take from Wired this week about it.

Speaker 3:
[11:04] For those who didn't read Garbage Day.

Speaker 4:
[11:06] Yeah. Basically, Wired picked up a story from this musician on Substack who had discovered that this shadowy digital marketing company called Chaotic Good Projects was using bots and, well, maybe not bots, but fake user generated content to promote bands. Alex Warren, Somber, Geese were all listed as artists they'd worked with. My major problem with any company like this is, okay, so you've manipulated the algorithm. Show me how you did it. Show me proof that you did it. There is no proof they did it. This is why I don't believe Cambridge Analytica caused Brexit. I don't believe that any of these companies that claim they can manipulate what you see are doing it because if they were doing it, the platforms themselves have problems doing it. Like the platforms that own the algorithms can't get you to watch Tony Shalhoub's Home Improvement Show on Facebook Watch. So I doubt that like two guys in lower Manhattan are going to figure out how to make geese sell out stadiums via TikTok clips that come from random accounts. And I also...

Speaker 3:
[12:12] Isn't that also just marketing? Like, in a modern day, like isn't that being like, they made this commercial on purpose.

Speaker 4:
[12:19] I think it's a fine take that like, oh, this is just how marketing works. But I have friends in the ad world and sort of the marketing world. And like, I get in fights with them all the time where I'm like, you're describing fraud. And they're like, yes, we know. They're like, the entire industry runs on fraud. So whenever moments like this happen, I would like to take some time to be like, you're all committing fraud.

Speaker 3:
[12:41] You could say this about every A24 movie. There's like a system in place, and it's to create buzz and to create conversation. It felt weird for, I guess, maybe it's because they're actually, they're like a rock band that the idea of selling out came back for one brief moment.

Speaker 4:
[13:00] Yeah, there are all kinds of weird digital marketing campaigns running around the Internet all the time. And sometimes people discover that they exist and they're like, that's funny, that's cool, you tricked us. And sometimes they're pissed about it. And sometimes these digital marketing campaigns can work, like the grimace shake on TikTok, which from what I understand was pretty organic actually. And I think nine times out of 10, these marketing campaigns sort of have to rely on the organic feedback of the audience actually playing along.

Speaker 3:
[13:30] So like the idea or the product has to actually be good. That's the real trick.

Speaker 4:
[13:34] Refrain, so Adam used that term too. I would refrain from saying good, because I just don't think.

Speaker 3:
[13:40] I don't want to be actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't want to be like, oh Grant, so you think this is good? There has to be juice. There has to be.

Speaker 4:
[13:47] There has to be something there. There has to be something there. That's true. And so, yeah, like also like Geese is a Nepo baby band that was getting write-ups in the Rolling Stone and New York Times, like when they were in high school. They were a very New York hipster band. Like their parents are rich. Like this, that's the secret.

Speaker 3:
[14:05] Do you know the funniest part about this, about your digs that you didn't know you're taking at me about Geese? It's only because on a previous bonus, I was like, you know, cause my first reaction was like, I roll Geese and same with Turd and style. And you made fun of me for being like, oh, of course you don't. And I was like, you know what? I don't want to be somebody who just cause something is new and it reminds me of other things. I immediately dismiss it. So for both Turd style and Geese, like let me try to have an open mind and actually sit with this because, you know, I'd rather be a person who likes more things and likes less things. So it's actually you're bullying the first time that got that, that put me on the stretch.

Speaker 4:
[14:43] I think you should engage with culture. I think, I think everyone who has that thing of like, oh, there's too much. No, I can't like, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's fine. I just didn't want to engage with it, but I have engaged with Geese. I find them lacking in terms of turnstile. Of course I find them a little boring.

Speaker 3:
[14:59] I like the first album.

Speaker 4:
[15:00] Yeah, I think it's a little boring. If you like turnstile, it's sort of like, I've been trying to think of a word for this. This like, these like, kind of like rage against the machines without the distortion kind of bands.

Speaker 3:
[15:13] Maybe this is indicting of turnstile. Turnstile's first album is actually really good for me to write our Panic World scripts to. It's not music I'm like jamming out to, but it gives me a lot of energy when I'm thinking about how many times Ayla has showered. And like, that's fine.

Speaker 4:
[15:40] They're fine. If you want a band that I think is a little more interesting doing similar things is Eka Vandal. Big fan of Eka Vandal.

Speaker 3:
[15:47] Do they wear stupid pants? It seems to be a...

Speaker 4:
[15:49] No, she is very cool. So it's a woman fronted kind of turnstile like band. I like that.

Speaker 3:
[15:56] I'll edit that out.

Speaker 4:
[15:58] So the point is like these marketing campaigns, they can work, but there has to be something there for them to work. But there's not even proof that I can find that chaotic good projects like did any successful marketing for Geese. And Rachel Carton, who's great, she's a social media analyst, writes a great newsletter. She found a bunch of accounts that were associated with Geese, and they're awful, like no one's watching them. And once you like this, this is the thing that like all of these kind of journalistic institutions, when they write about this stuff, like they don't ask what to me would be the most important question, which is, may I see it?

Speaker 3:
[16:34] It's not, are you doing this? It's what impact is this having?

Speaker 4:
[16:37] Or just let me see it. Like, okay, so like you're making...

Speaker 3:
[16:39] Especially if you're going to call something a SIO.

Speaker 4:
[16:41] Yeah, if can I look at the numbers and see if this has done anything? And I think the funnier story is that like, you know, partisan records or whoever's management for Geese or whatever was like, we're going to pay for this. That's so lame. Like that to me is like disqualifyingly lame. I would sue my label if I found out that they were doing that, if I was a band like Geese. And the fact that like everyone involved thought it would work is, I think, a tremendous indictment of what you called late stage clipping. This idea that short form video is both so important and so meaningless that we're just going to astroturf it.

Speaker 3:
[17:20] Maybe this is real millennial of me. But I think privacy is actually an essential right that we all deserve. And might I recommend Surfshark? Algorithms decide what we consume, platforms decide what gets amplified. And somewhere in the background, there are countless companies, trackers and random third parties quietly collecting data on what we click, where we are and what we're doing online. And honestly, that's part of what makes something like Surfshark VPN feel less like and nice to have and more like basic Internet hygiene. Because whether you're digging through the weird corners of the web, traveling, or just connecting to public Wi-Fi at an airport or coffee shop, Surfshark encrypts your Internet activity so what you're doing stays private. Which if you spend as much time online as most of us do, that's pretty essential. One thing I especially like is that it also helps you get around geo-restrictions, which means if content is blocked where you are, you can still access it, which is useful whether you're traveling or just trying to watch something the Internet has arbitrarily decided you shouldn't have. It works across all devices with one subscription. So your phone, laptop, tablet, every screen that currently controls your life can all be protected at once. So if you want to make your online life feel just a little less exposed, go to surfshark.com/panic or use code PANIC at checkout to get four extra months of Surfshark VPN. Again, that's surfshark.com/panic, you know, like the show. It also comes with a risk-free 30-day money back guarantee and the link and code are in the show description. Now, back to the story, because unfortunately, the Internet is only getting weirder. I feel seen. We've been having this conversation internally. We have. I mean, endlessly, where it's like, does this make us money? Probably not. Does this convert to actual people listening to the thing? Yeah, probably not. But does it like show that you exist?

Speaker 4:
[19:22] Okay, let's talk about this because we, yeah, you and I have been talking about this probably for six to nine months now, which is awesome.

Speaker 3:
[19:29] I've been loving every moment of it.

Speaker 4:
[19:30] Panic World and Garbage Day do not have an aggressive short form video presence. We have a YouTube channel that is worked on by Courier and us. Do I have something? No, okay. I noticed the other day that we did an entire episode and you didn't tell me I had just a giant black thing on my tooth the whole time. So I look like Asmongold. So we have that and there's an Instagram account, but the Instagram account doesn't really get a lot of traction because Instagram is a nightmare. And over the last like two or three months, I started an experiment with Garbage Day where I was like, we're going to just shotgun blast short form videos on every major platform. And I learned a lot. And it was partly to see if we could get any traction on them. And it's partly to write about it and sort of understand the state of short form video right now. And just to put things in perspective, I have gone very, very viral on video platforms in the past. My top video of all time is 15 million views. And it's where I went to a store and I bought the Supreme Brick. You remember that? The brick?

Speaker 3:
[20:34] No, not at all.

Speaker 4:
[20:35] They sold a brick and I-

Speaker 3:
[20:36] You started talking about going viral and I honestly started thinking about something different, but keep going.

Speaker 4:
[20:40] Yeah. So anyway, this is all to say that I have done this dance before in a different era. So I was like, what is this era like? We had one big hit across the couple, the month or two that we were trying it, which was a TikTok that did 129,000 views. And it was about a laboratory that put a brain inside of a computer and then taught the brain to play Doom. And we got a bunch of strikes from different platforms. TikTok was very aggressive to us and kept blocking our videos. And we also realized pretty quickly that we got penalized for any breaks we were taking. So I believe in a normal work week, platforms do not. So we didn't have content ready to go on the weekend, and we were penalized pretty heavily. And we noticed that when you started posting more, you would start getting more views again. And I don't think it's an accident that the brain video that did, you know, the best of the batch was after like a consistent run of videos. And they will also penalize you for underperforming videos. If you deviate from your niche or you experiment or you do anything other than just like make fucking consistent level slop, it will punish you. And so the other problem, as you talked about, is that these don't make any money. They require a lot of work. They don't have any downstream effects in terms of our owned audiences. So like, I, you know, Garbage Day and Panic World are both projects where we own the ability to directly talk to our audience. That is important to me and you. And I think it's important to our business. These platforms do not want that to exist. And so you're not going to get a massive influx of readers from your TikTok to your newsletter. You have these two complete inhospitable worlds, and one of them is extremely time consuming and extremely expensive. It makes no money and the other does so.

Speaker 3:
[22:38] But it's like, as was written in GQ, you matter if your clips are seen. Like, there's not a way to express to larger media that we have these apparatuses now, and culture in general being like, people really love the thing that we're doing. We have people who actually give a shit about the product. Thank you. And if you're neutral on it, also thank you. But the currency that translates is this no money and actually no actual audience gives a shit about you thing, which is short form views. It's kind of like going to a Chuck E. Cheese and being like, I'm so rich in Chuck E. Cheese to tokens, but you can't translate it outside of there.

Speaker 4:
[23:22] Yes. But I think there's a specific reason that is maybe not totally evident to the average person why that's happening. I watched the first steps to how we got here happen, which is, okay, it went like this. In the early 2010s, every journalist was being told that they should make a Twitter account because it was perfect for journalists. Quick, easy, runs on your phone. Hurricane Sandy was sort of the moment where New York media realized that, like, Twitter was really useful because they could report directly to the app, especially in that moment when a lot of newsrooms lost their servers to flooding or people couldn't get in the office or whatever. So you had this moment at some point between Occupy Wall Street and Hurricane Sandy, where New York media was like, we're on Twitter. And then over the course of the early first half of the 2010s, LA started to get on to Twitter because writers could write there. And that's when you start to get the Twitter accounts that become TV show deals, which was a replacement for the Tumblr blogs that got book deals. For a brief moment, basically leading up to the Trump candidacy, you get not just the new writers, the new artists, the new creatives on Twitter, you get their bosses on Twitter. This starts to have a really bad, bad social impact in the later half of the decade because the newer writers, younger creatives, they were able to say, oh, like, yeah, whatever, I'm like pretty platform literate, I can like figure out TikTok, I can figure out Instagram, I can use Reddit and bounce around and sort of understand the internet and its complexity. The bosses could not, because you're never going to get a website as easy and simple to use as Twitter. And so I spent the majority of my career in newsrooms, either explaining something that was happening on Twitter to a boss, or having a boss assign me something to do based on what they saw on Twitter. I no longer work in newsrooms, but from what I've heard is that after Elon Musk bought Twitter, those bosses have stayed, they might not be posting. But the number one complaint I'm hearing from creatives, but specifically journalists working in newsrooms right now, is that their bosses are radicalized to a... Their Gen X bosses have had their brains completely melted. And once you understand that the few remaining gatekeepers and arbiters of how culture works are watching Clavicular clips on X all day and have no fucking idea what they're looking at or what it means or what it doesn't mean, everything makes sense. Everything.

Speaker 3:
[26:06] So it's like these clips are hollow. Short form video is crashing and burning. It has reached an exhausting place. And it is yielding very little return for 99.9% of people. But if you are a Clavicular who is able to get into the imagination of the few gatekeepers who don't realize that they are radicalized because they're still on Twitter, and they then think that this has cultural relevance, that's how someone like him gets extremely propped up. Would you argue that he's the only person that short form video is still working for, or a clavicular like figure?

Speaker 4:
[26:52] So like, for instance, like I had questions asked about, like by like a media industry kind of person about I Show Speed, because they had seen I Show Speed's clips of him like in China and Africa, which are awesome. And I love I Show Speed, especially I think I've talked about how funny I think White Speed is, his villain that shows up in random places and chases him around. The whole clipping industry.

Speaker 3:
[27:17] Do you think that's Cape Fabe?

Speaker 4:
[27:18] Oh, you think this random white guy just like appeared in rural Africa out of nowhere?

Speaker 3:
[27:23] I want to believe Ryan.

Speaker 4:
[27:24] I do want to believe that. That's what's so fun about it.

Speaker 3:
[27:25] I want to believe that he is like, like he keeps infiltrating I Show Speed's assistants and he still gets the tips broken to him.

Speaker 4:
[27:35] I mean, after the jump to the paywall, we can talk about how short-form videos turn the entire world into WWE. And that's having some pretty severe consequences to society if you ask people like Vitaly or Johnny Somali this week. But we'll get there. The last point I want to make here on the free side of things is, the views that you're seeing on these short-form clips do not have to reflect anything, because the point is to legitimize whoever is putting them out. And the fact that they are not being put out by themselves anymore is both a platform hack, as in, it's not like the Clavicular account is where you're watching Clavicular. You're watching it via 19 Nigerian guys chopping it up and putting it on every platform for cents on the dollar in their little Discord chat. That is a reflection of how the platforms are penalizing the follower metric. Platforms do not want followers anymore. They want a Netflix style experience where you just refresh the feed and you don't fall any accounts and so they're killing big follower accounts and they're freezing large follower accounts out because they're too powerful. It's classic, classic platform behavior.

Speaker 3:
[28:50] Then you need 19 accounts that are not that big, but are all spamming the different clips versus one hub.

Speaker 4:
[28:56] You need the hub, but you need the hub off algorithm. That's why podcasting was so early to clipping, was because the podcast is the hub, the live stream is the hub. In the music industry, the album is the hub, the Spotify streams are the hub. Like you need a place to start because then... Let's do this. You and I are a band and we put out a stream for our new album. We play all the music and we invite some Instagram baddies over and things get a little spicy with the Instagram baddies. And everyone's like, oh man, I can't believe Grant threw up on the Instagram baddie. Crazy moment. And then I pay 15 guys in Nigeria that I found on Discord to clip the moment of you throwing up on the Instagram baddie. You need that initial stream though, because the hope is that with those 15 guys posting clips, people go and find the stream and then make their own clips out of it and watch other streams. Right.

Speaker 3:
[29:58] It's like there was only 100 people at that show, but all of them are talking about it. This is, we've talked a lot about like how cool doesn't exist anymore, right? And like by your stream being the new CBGBs, that's the gatekeep. I was there first. I was there before it was a clip.

Speaker 4:
[30:18] I don't know if our audience knows about the big spreadsheet. Our researcher Adam's big spreadsheet of all of his research, which is so useful. Assam did a stream a month ago on YouTube that has 596,000 views. That would place him at sort of like the top of Twitch's streamers. Surfshark. For comparison, Ibai, a Spanish streamer in March, was the most watched stream on Twitch with 593,000 views. Clavicular is doing around 100 to 120,000 views, with the exception of his stream last night after his overdose, where he went to a Miami nightclub to open it up immediately after getting out of the hospital, and that has close to 300,000 views. So he is like... So the point is that Clavicular's got probably about one-fifth the audience of Hasan. And Hasan is actually up until recently been one of the smaller streamers on Twitch.

Speaker 3:
[31:11] Surfshark.

Speaker 4:
[31:12] These audiences, though, don't really matter because Hasan is everywhere. People have full-on Hasan Derangement Syndrome because short-form clips create this feeling that whatever is happening over there that you're not watching must be a big deal. That's the point.

Speaker 3:
[31:28] Yeah, especially with X being broken where if you watch one video for 10 seconds, it assumes that is all that you want as long as it has an endless pile of that shit.

Speaker 4:
[31:40] Exactly.

Speaker 3:
[31:41] We should talk about what kind of behavior this has incentivized.

Speaker 4:
[31:44] Last night, after his overdose, Clavicular assembled all the different jesters to dance at the club with him.

Speaker 3:
[31:51] As one last for Vahalla, because didn't he announce that he's no longer streaming? I downloaded Kalshi to see if we could place a bet about his return to streaming, and it is not yet up.

Speaker 4:
[32:02] We should probably update our editorial guidelines about that. Probably time to have that conversation.

Speaker 3:
[32:07] I downloaded it for the show.

Speaker 4:
[32:09] Yeah, I mean, that's fine.

Speaker 3:
[32:10] I figured maybe the Patreon members could get in on it, and we could all place one big bet on when we think that Clavicular will come back.

Speaker 4:
[32:19] Yeah, he danced with Blueface and Baby Alien and all the other jesters at the club last night.

Speaker 3:
[32:24] So should we get a paywall?

Speaker 4:
[32:25] Yeah, we're going to be talking about Clavicular, Johnny Tsunami. Clavicular, Johnny Somali, not Johnny Tsunami.

Speaker 3:
[32:33] That's a better name.

Speaker 4:
[32:34] Well, Johnny Tsunami is a Disney Channel original movie about a kid who surfs.

Speaker 3:
[32:39] That makes sense.

Speaker 4:
[32:40] Johnny Somali is a sex offender who's going to a hard labor prison camp in South Korea.

Speaker 3:
[32:45] I was more of a so weird fan.

Speaker 4:
[32:47] So weird?

Speaker 3:
[32:48] Yeah, you don't remember that show? It's like a...

Speaker 4:
[32:51] It may have been after my time watching the show.

Speaker 3:
[32:53] We're the same age. It is...

Speaker 4:
[32:55] I thought you were younger.

Speaker 3:
[32:56] I'm seven months younger than you.

Speaker 4:
[32:59] Oh, I didn't have cable till I was 12. So I missed so many.

Speaker 3:
[33:01] It was like a... I saw the TV glow was kind of like nodding to it at times.

Speaker 4:
[33:07] Okay. Yeah, so we're going to talk about Johnny Somali, Clavicular's overdose, Vitaly's whole to catch a predator thing, and the sort of like general downfall of society that is being caused by live streaming, but also possibly we'll be talking... I might make the argument that I've been sitting on for a little bit, that live streaming is actually the future, and we have to figure out like what that means.

Speaker 3:
[33:31] So wait, wait, short form is over and live streaming is the future?

Speaker 4:
[33:35] We'll get there. I have very conflicting thoughts about this.

Speaker 3:
[33:40] patreon.com/panicworld and now for you Apple heads on Courier Plus' network. If you go to Courier Plus, you will get all the bonus material from us and from their other stuff. patreon.com/panicworld, Courier Plus, Apple. Bye.

Speaker 4:
[33:58] Thank you. I love you.

Speaker 3:
[34:01] Hablas espanol?

Speaker 4:
[34:02] Spreaks to George?

Speaker 2:
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