transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 7:
[00:44] Look out, it's only Films To Be Buried With. The end of year so early it's on time special, part two. Hello, and welcome to Films To Be Buried With, the So On Time It's Practically Early Films Of The Year Special, part two. We will pick up exactly where we left off, on a huge cliffhanger, with the brilliant Mr. Nish Kumar, to get all the extra stuff, the video, the three extra questions, where we talk beginnings, endings, films of the year, secrets, everything. Head over to the Patreon at patreon.com/brettgoldstein. But that's it for now. I very much hope you enjoy part two of the So Early It's On Time Films Of The Year special. Now, what is, should we get to this? What is the, all right, let's do it. What's the sexiest film?

Speaker 8:
[01:54] Well, Brett.

Speaker 7:
[01:55] Tricky one, this one.

Speaker 8:
[01:56] I'm 40 years old, so you know a lot of the films that I grew up watching. And I'm afraid to say that, for me, Nicole Kidman is quite an important part of my emergent sexuality, as I bloomed, Brett.

Speaker 7:
[02:10] So we're looking at Baby Girl.

Speaker 8:
[02:12] We're looking at Baby Girl. We were looking at Baby Girl. The whole movie is...

Speaker 7:
[02:17] You had a lovely look at Baby Girl, didn't you?

Speaker 8:
[02:19] I had a lovely look at Baby Girl. Everyone kept saying, what an incredible expression of female sexuality. I said, let's not leave out the men here, because the men are enjoying some things about that as well. Let's leave it at that.

Speaker 7:
[02:30] Baby Girl.

Speaker 8:
[02:32] What was your sexiest film?

Speaker 7:
[02:33] I think it was, I think it was Naked Gun. I think they had such good chemistry.

Speaker 8:
[02:44] Listen, I'm only laughing just at the sheer surprise of hearing the Naked Gun. I knew we were going to talk about it.

Speaker 7:
[02:50] And not because the gun was naked. She's fit, he's fit.

Speaker 8:
[02:56] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[02:56] They had a real...

Speaker 8:
[02:57] They did, yeah. They had real chemistry.

Speaker 7:
[03:00] They were very fun. It was like they were sexy together.

Speaker 8:
[03:02] They sort of parlayed it possibly into a fake relationship for publicity.

Speaker 7:
[03:04] I don't know the story. But they were like fun together. And yeah, I think it was sexy.

Speaker 8:
[03:12] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[03:12] I think what people said, talk about how funny it was. A lot of people talk about how sexy it was. I liked hanging out with them. Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[03:21] Yeah. There was an air of genuine chemistry. I think that's partly why it worked so well.

Speaker 7:
[03:27] Obviously, there's a sub-category traveling bonus, wearing wide-ons, which I had to explain to Elizabeth Moss. Never had to go into such detail to explain the wearing wide-ons, but I think everyone's caught up to speed now.

Speaker 8:
[03:40] It's my favorite bit of any one of these podcasts I listen to. When it's you interviewing someone that you're not friends with, this bit of the podcast, when you start going, now.

Speaker 7:
[03:50] I have to. I don't know why I have to ask, but I do have to.

Speaker 8:
[03:52] Poor Brett with himself at war.

Speaker 7:
[03:57] I guess I could probably not ask this bit, but it is on the list.

Speaker 8:
[04:00] It's on the list, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[04:02] My troubling boner.

Speaker 8:
[04:03] What was your troubling boner?

Speaker 7:
[04:04] Piliate.

Speaker 8:
[04:05] Yes, that is troubling. My initial, the initial thing I was about to say was like, why was that? Oh yeah, it was troubling. Oh, it was absolutely troubling.

Speaker 7:
[04:11] It's a troubling relationship.

Speaker 8:
[04:13] It's a troubling relationship.

Speaker 7:
[04:14] I like that film very much. I don't know how I, I've read many hot takes. I don't know if it's how I, I personally feel like it seems like a bad relationship.

Speaker 8:
[04:27] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[04:28] But what do I know?

Speaker 8:
[04:29] I think it feels like a bad relationship because at the end, when he sees, when he meets the guy, it feels like he's like, you know, this is a sort of subdomed relationship.

Speaker 7:
[04:38] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[04:39] Between one of the kids from Harry Potter, let's not beat around the bush, one of the kids from Harry Potter, and Alexander Sarsgaard.

Speaker 7:
[04:46] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[04:47] But the thing that's uncomplicated, the thing that's untroubling is, he's so fit. Like, that is bananous. That man's body is absolutely coconuts.

Speaker 7:
[05:01] Listen, he's fit.

Speaker 8:
[05:04] This is why I can't write erotic fiction. A man walked into the room and his body was coconuts.

Speaker 7:
[05:09] His body was coconuts.

Speaker 8:
[05:13] Yeah, it's a really...

Speaker 7:
[05:14] He's fit, and there's a lot of sex in it.

Speaker 8:
[05:17] Yeah, there's a lot of it.

Speaker 7:
[05:18] But it is a troubling... And I am no... Forgive me, Nish. I am not an expert in the field of BDSM and subdom culture. So maybe what we are observing is really loving. I don't know. It seemed complicated to me. I think that's why the film was so interesting and good. But occasionally, I felt like it was really troubling.

Speaker 8:
[05:40] I think it is possibly troubling. I think at the very end, you see him chatting up a guy right at the end, and he's very clear in what his boundaries are and what he will and won't do. And that's what I felt about this film. There's an amazing bit that I've argued. Well, not argued, but I think people have different opinions. I don't know how much we want to give away, but there's a point where you can have an argument about what Alexander Skarsgård is feeling, whether he is invested in this relationship or whether he always knows he's going to leave. And there's a whole sequence. Also, it's all set in Bromley, which is like, I never thought I'd enjoy a film that involves a blowjob outside the Bromley Primark. And yet, here we are. It also has arguably the scene of the year, the dinner with the parents, and the mum's line in that, which again, I mean, you're a cunt.

Speaker 7:
[06:29] Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 8:
[06:30] It's one of the great lines of the year.

Speaker 7:
[06:32] But that's speaking for some of the audience.

Speaker 8:
[06:35] Yeah, but I thought it was about an unhealthy relationship, and it was about someone who learns how to find healthy boundaries within the structure of one of those relationships. That's how I felt about it.

Speaker 7:
[06:46] That's nice.

Speaker 8:
[06:47] But let's not beat around the bush.

Speaker 7:
[06:50] The man's fit.

Speaker 8:
[06:50] Fucking hell. My troubling boner was, let me get the time code for all of you up. You can see Brett's arse. No, nothing troubling about that.

Speaker 7:
[07:03] Nothing troubling about that.

Speaker 8:
[07:04] Good looking couple, getting it on, consensually. Fantastic. My troubling boner was, my love, and that's the end of this section.

Speaker 7:
[07:11] Your trouble was done, my love. I will be taking no follow up questions.

Speaker 8:
[07:13] I will be taking no follow up questions, OK? What? Jennifer Lawrence having an absolute breakdown.

Speaker 7:
[07:17] And you're rock hard all the way through.

Speaker 8:
[07:19] I'm sorry to say, I thought she was unbelievably attractive through that whole movie. It turns out all I want is Jennifer Lawrence walking around in dungarees being insane. Just using her breast milk to write stuff. I can't defend this, Brett, even for me. And I know I have a history with getting real good, troubling bonus. This was a bad one. This was a bad one.

Speaker 7:
[07:46] What's the...

Speaker 8:
[07:48] One of my worst bonus. And they can have that for the DVD release quote.

Speaker 7:
[07:57] The guardians Nish Kumar. What is...

Speaker 8:
[08:00] She was very sexy. It's in Trapman.

Speaker 7:
[08:03] She was very sexy. What is the greatest? Not your favorite. The greatest. This is tough.

Speaker 8:
[08:10] So I've done a split again, as I always do, between greatest and favorite, and I've been unable to choose between the two of them. And we don't have to talk about it now, because I know we're going to talk about it a lot. But Sinners, for me... We can talk about Sinners. Yeah, and we can talk about Sinners in a bit. But let's talk about what your greatest...

Speaker 7:
[08:25] Can I have two?

Speaker 8:
[08:26] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[08:27] I'd like Sinners.

Speaker 8:
[08:28] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[08:29] But I'd also like The Brutalists. And this is the problem with our...

Speaker 8:
[08:31] But let's talk about The Brutalists, and we're gonna come back to Sinners. So The Brutalists, I mean, it's a pretty extraordinary achievement.

Speaker 7:
[08:38] It's an extraordinary achievement. Made it for two pounds. And what I really... What I like about The Brutalists, whatever you may think of it, is that it is a film where they've gone, where Brady Corbett has gone, I'm gonna make the great American movie.

Speaker 8:
[08:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[08:55] And he isn't being ironic, and he isn't shy, and he isn't like careful. He goes, I'm gonna make a fucking four-hour epic, important masterpiece.

Speaker 8:
[09:07] With an interval. It's that big. It's that bigger.

Speaker 7:
[09:09] There's no apologizing for it. There's no like, it's like big swing, I'm fucking doing it. And I think he did it. I think it's great.

Speaker 8:
[09:20] I think it's based on some real people, but maybe not even that particular intensity. But yeah, it's that sort of fictional story of, you know, this Bauhaus trained architect who comes to the States fleeing like just like after the Holocaust and like what his life is. And essentially that is it. Like it's a biopic of someone that didn't exist.

Speaker 7:
[09:42] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[09:43] The soundtrack was incredible. It looked extraordinary. It has maybe, if Pillion hadn't come out this year, it would have had the bleakest blowjob in any movie.

Speaker 7:
[09:51] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[09:51] It's a bleak blowjob. But at the same time, it's not a blowjob in front of the Bromley Primark. And if anyone goes to Bromley High Street, they will confirm that getting a blowjob out of there is bleaker than anything.

Speaker 7:
[10:01] Do you think they'll put a plaque there? The fairest man ever got sucked off here.

Speaker 8:
[10:11] Yeah, it was, the scale and scope of it is incredible. I think they're really interesting. Brady Courbet and Mona Fast-Bold were a very interesting sort of partnership.

Speaker 7:
[10:21] Obviously, we'll have to talk about the testament of Anne Lee, but it would be convenient if we could talk about that here. But obviously, that's for next year.

Speaker 8:
[10:30] But yeah, I thought Guy Pearce was fantastic in this film. I know that it feels odd to sort of breeze past Brody and Felicity Jones, but I thought Guy Pearce in this movie was so good. And again, I loved, I think he's such a brilliant and oddly underrated actor. I thought he was great in this film. And there's something about, there's an American refusal to engage with the idea that the country has an aristocracy. And there's an idea that America is a sort of classless society. And I thought one of the things that was amazing about The Brutalist was the way that it engaged with the fact that there absolutely is an aristocracy in America, and they believe themselves to be better than other people, and they consider themselves to be more legitimate than other, and they consider themselves to be more legitimate Americans than other Americans. And also, Laszlo Toth, who's Brody's character, is sort of aware of the contempt that they have for him, because he's an immigrant and because he's Jewish. Like, he's totally aware of that. They're not sneaking. Nothing is being sort of snuck past him. Like, his wife is like, I hate the way they speak to you. So yeah, I know, but what are you going to do? There's some really brutal moments in the film. But yeah, I'm glad for big swings.

Speaker 7:
[11:37] Yeah. Sinners?

Speaker 8:
[11:39] We should talk about sinners, but it comes up in a few of your categories. We'll bring it up.

Speaker 6:
[11:43] So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night's day anywhere?

Speaker 4:
[11:48] Anywhere.

Speaker 6:
[11:49] What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris?

Speaker 4:
[11:51] Yeah, Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 6:
[11:53] Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Tulum?

Speaker 4:
[11:57] Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 6:
[11:59] What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties?

Speaker 9:
[12:05] When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Book your spring break now.

Speaker 8:
[12:14] There's plenty to say about Sinners.

Speaker 7:
[12:16] I don't know what category to put this in. Oh, how about film you didn't really want to see, but you loved?

Speaker 8:
[12:24] Yeah, I'll say this. I had the exact right film for this. Maria.

Speaker 7:
[12:28] Okay.

Speaker 8:
[12:29] And I say this because I really don't like or understand opera. Call me Brown Chalamet. Call me Brown-am-et. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Looks like I've just...

Speaker 7:
[12:41] Sticking it to opera.

Speaker 8:
[12:42] Looks like...

Speaker 7:
[12:42] Piling on, on opera.

Speaker 8:
[12:44] Looks like Nishi Supreme has done himself out of an Oscar. I... Yeah, I've never really got opera. However, I am a huge fan of the first two parts in what I can only describe as the Sad Lady trilogy. How else are we supposed to describe that trilogy? It's the Sad Lady. It's the SLCU.

Speaker 7:
[13:05] Famous Sad Ladies.

Speaker 8:
[13:07] It's the Sad Ladies cinematic universe. Also, it is the real Sad Lady because it's Pablo Laredes' films. He made Jackie, about Jackie and Ases. Brilliant. Spencer, which I loved. And he's a really very unusual, strange, chilly movie with a great performance from Kristen Stewart about Queen of Hearts, Forever in Our Hearts, Princess Diana. We love her. And then when he came to the third part, I thought, I don't know anything about Maria Carlos. Beyond the fact that she's like an opera singer, and I really don't like, and they called her the diva.

Speaker 7:
[13:37] Right.

Speaker 8:
[13:38] I didn't really know anything beyond that. And I went to see it. I thought Angelina Jolie was brilliant. I thought it was different in so many interesting technical ways. I thought the structure of it was fascinating. It sort of, it has the thing that the other two films have, which is this sort of character moving through their past and remembering things in a different way. But the aesthetic of the film changed so violently, you know, some of it's in black and white. It's all shot really beautifully and I was completely hooked by it and I thought it was really beautiful. I thought her performance was incredible and it actually made me, the music in it actually made me understand the power and emotional force of opera. So it actually converted me on a whole art form. It's like when we watched Drive My Car a few years ago. And you know, I have to say to my friend, I think Chekhov is good. I don't think Chekhov's really fucking boring like I thought it was. And this movie, I came out of it and said to my partner, Rémi Nett, who is a trained singer, did a lot of singing in...

Speaker 7:
[14:36] I didn't know this.

Speaker 8:
[14:37] She's an amazing singer, but also she's got an amazing voice, but also she did lots of trained singing, so she can sort of sing opera. It's kind of amazing when you can hear just somebody in the shower throwing, just throwing her voice. And I said to her after I watched the film, I said, oh yeah, I get it. I get it. I was completely moved by the music in it. And because of the presence of JFK and the connection between... So Maria Carlos had an affair with Aristotle Anasis, who then obviously ends up marrying Jackie. It becomes part of the universe. And JFK is in the movie. And Aristotle Anasis, the movie presents her as the sort of real great love of his life. I don't know what the truth is of that, but it does have the feel of the SLCU, the Sad Ladies in the Mac Universe. I was totally blown away by it. I really loved it.

Speaker 7:
[15:23] My answer is Hard Truths. Oh, I sort of felt like, oh, this is, you know, I have to see this, but here's my homework. I love that film. And it's so funny. It's one of my comedy. It's one of the funniest films of the year. And it's very sad, but it's fucking great. And Marianne John Baptiste is so good and has so many great lines. And it's a really interesting portrait of someone you would hate and you love. It's a real act of empathy. You go, here is a person that you would see at the supermarket who you would hate, who is so rude to everyone and so angry. And she's so funny. And then it's a really... And it's got one of my favorite bits, favorite lines. She goes, haunted. Haunted. It's really good. It's a good... I think it's, if not my favorite Mike Lee film. I think it is maybe the most I've enjoyed of his.

Speaker 8:
[16:23] It was one of the best in terms of my... It was one of the ones I initially had down as my best experience of watching a film because I saw it with a Q&A with Mike Lee and Marion John-Baptiste and a couple more of the cast after the film in The Ritzy in Brixton. Yeah, I thought it was incredible. I thought it was... Now this is going to sound insane. I thought it was an attempt to make a psychologically insightful version of As Good As It Gets, because As Good As It Gets is a romantic comedy about a man with anger issues and no filter. And this film, the first half got massive laughs. Completely full cinema, massive laughs. And in my head, because I had read, I think maybe an interview with Mike Lee about the film, I remember thinking, I think you might be in for a very rude shock about halfway through. And the turn of the film, so she starts... There's a lot of comedy scenes where she's just being really rude to people, like Jack Nicholson is, as good as it gets. But then the film tries to explore why she's like that. Why is she this spiky person? Why is she so horrible? And why does... Why does she like this? What's made her like this? And that's when it turns from comedy into tragedy. It is a sort of perfect Mike Lee film. If you wanted to explain to somebody what Mike Lee does and what his kind of tragicomic tone looks like, this would almost be a perfect film to show. Oh, Ted! It's one of the performances of the decade. It's brilliant. It's such a good movie.

Speaker 7:
[17:50] What is your comedy? What film made you laugh the most?

Speaker 8:
[17:55] Well, I was laughing while you were rock hard at The Naked Gun. While you were turned on beyond belief at The Naked Gun, Brett.

Speaker 7:
[18:02] I was like, what is everyone laughing at? In this porno I've come to see. Everyone's distracting me.

Speaker 8:
[18:12] Yeah, I mean, we could talk about it for best line. But for me, and I don't feel proud of this, but there is no line that has made me life harder in any film I've ever seen than Liam Neeson describing Pamela Anderson as having a bottom that would make any toilet beg for the brown.

Speaker 7:
[18:35] I think the set piece with The Snowman is mine. That was the bit that I lost my boner because I was laughing so much. I love The Snowman.

Speaker 8:
[18:48] What the sketch that's just in the middle of the film?

Speaker 7:
[18:50] It's the best bit.

Speaker 8:
[18:51] It's so funny because we talk so much. We work in writers' rooms. We make comedy shows. We talk so much about how there's a need to kind of create a reality and not overstuff with jokes and not have jokes that, you know, like you will often talk about, like, you can only have one type of joke. But there is another line later on in the film where he says she had a body that carried her head around and a butt that seemed to say, hello, I'm a talking butt. And it is, the naked gun is a real, that's good. That's a really exam, a really great example of sometimes it's fine. Just throw it all out the window and put as many jokes in as you can. And it was really exciting to see a film that committed to the comedy. Anything any of those Lonely Island boys touch, I think comes out so nice. And like they are really smart. And yeah, just I thought that this was, I thought it was great. Fuck character. Fuck picking one out of two jokes. Put it all in. Have a sketch about it.

Speaker 7:
[19:50] Tell a really moving, sexy love story.

Speaker 8:
[19:56] Did you watch The Big Sleep? I'm worried that you watched The Big Sleep.

Speaker 7:
[20:02] We've got to talk about The Ballad of Wallace Island, of course.

Speaker 8:
[20:05] Yeah, I have it for one of my answers for one of them down the line. But let's talk about The Ballad of Wallace Island. Why not?

Speaker 7:
[20:11] Fantastic.

Speaker 8:
[20:12] Another one of those very special moments in the cinema. It was very special to see my dear friend Liz Kingsman in the IMAX in F1. That was another really exciting moment to see her in that. Really, really exciting. But yeah, Ballad of Wallace Island. We both love Tim Key very dearly. And I love Tom Baston. Love Tom Baston.

Speaker 7:
[20:37] Love Karen Munker. Don't know her. Love her.

Speaker 8:
[20:38] Met her once. Met her twice. She seems very nice. She seems very nice. And she was kind of the perfect person to kind of anchor the film and sort of sit in between the two of these guys.

Speaker 7:
[20:49] I also think that that film is beautifully directed by James Griffiths. I think it's phenomenally directed because it is very stylish without drawing attention to itself. It's a really beautiful looking film in a really subtle way. It just tells the story, but it tells the story whilst also being pretty cinematic and beautiful.

Speaker 8:
[21:11] And it cost 12 pence, and they had 45 minutes. Yeah. From what I understand.

Speaker 7:
[21:16] And they slowed it down and it made a 90-minute movie, and it's really good. It's also surprising. It didn't go the way I thought it was going to go.

Speaker 8:
[21:23] So many jokes in it. But that is an example of a comedy film where the comedy is really funny, but the character development is there. And the premise that somebody has won the lottery twice is so funny. It's so funny. And all he wants to do is have a special concert by his favorite musician. Tom Basden is brilliant.

Speaker 7:
[21:46] And his songs are brilliant.

Speaker 8:
[21:47] His songs are brilliant. He doesn't like me bringing this up because I saw his first Edinburgh show, and I still think about one of the songs in it, which is a very short song, and it's just, Gang Bang Girl, how do I get you on your own? And Basden, he looks like he could have been in Noe and the Whale or Mumford and Sons, which is such an era-specific musician that the film is trying to evoke. And it's so brilliant at evoking it, both in the songs which Basden wrote, and so wonderful, and his aesthetic, like he really looks like he could have been in any of Noe and the Whale, Mumford and Sons, that era of British bands. He's totally plausible as one of those people. But the scene in it where they sing the song together at the dinner table. And like Tim Key, we know Tim Key is so funny. Tim Key is also one of those people where people say, oh, it must be when you're hanging around with comedians, you're like, no, mostly we have normal conversations. Tim Key is so funny. On stage, off stage, so funny. And so when he's, you know, when he refers to Curry and Rice as Dr. Harold Shipman with a side of Condoleezza Rice, first of all, Americans watch that movie. What are they thinking when he says Dr. Harold Shipman? Because when you explain it, it's worse. Oh, he's said Curry, and he substituted the word Curry over the word Harold in the name Harold Shipman, who was a mass murdering doctor in real life. The explanation makes it even worse. But so funny. And then you slowly understand that there is a sadness behind this man's, in this man's life. And he's won the lottery twice, but there is real grief at his core. And it comes up with a dramatic reason for why he's just constantly talking. It's because he's trying to fill, he's been on his own, he's trying to fill the silence, and also he's trying to keep everything light, because there is genuine sadness and grief behind him. So he's constantly making jokes to cover that. And then it all kind of breaks down in just this moment where these reunited musicians, played by Curry Mulligan and Tom Basden, he's brought back together for this concert, sing a song together. And the song is great, and it sounds beautiful. And then the camera turns to Tim Key, and his face, it's heartbreaking. It's so good.

Speaker 7:
[24:01] Good film.

Speaker 8:
[24:02] It's really interesting to see something like that. And it's been a really great year for me of like seeing my friends be in movies. And just you feel when I see you with Poots at the end of that movie, and see Key at the dinner table, you feel just such an overwhelming pride. Because the thing is you're used to, I'm used to seeing you in Key Be Funny. But when I see you sell those emotional beats, it's like when I went in the end of the first series of Ted Lasso, when she tries to touch you and you sort of flinch. And I texted you and I was like, you can act. Brett, this is like Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler. Like, you can act. And yeah, it was a really, really special thing.

Speaker 7:
[24:47] I texted you, you should straighten your hair.

Speaker 8:
[24:52] You replied, you can't do comedy.

Speaker 3:
[24:57] Pepsi prebiotic cola in original and cherry vanilla. That Pepsi tastes you low with no artificial sweeteners and three grams of prebiotic fiber. Pepsi prebiotic cola. Unbelievably Pepsi.

Speaker 7:
[25:12] Best musical?

Speaker 8:
[25:13] Got to Be Sinners.

Speaker 7:
[25:14] Got to Be Sinners. Let's talk about Sinners.

Speaker 8:
[25:16] Let's talk about Sinners. Come on.

Speaker 7:
[25:18] Here's the many. I mean, obviously there's a lot to say about Sinners. It's brilliant. It's original. It looks amazing. It's actually amazing. It's exciting. It's sexy. It's got great music. What I really thought about Sinners, and there's a couple of films, was like, it felt like a novel. And I mean, that's a compliment.

Speaker 8:
[25:37] Yeah, I know you mean it's a compliment. I like that.

Speaker 7:
[25:39] I didn't say it felt like a play. Like it's a real, like it takes its time in the first hour, is like, here's this character, here's this character, here's the world. And it's building out this picture of a community, of a time, of a place. And it's completely enthralling. And so it builds, and it's building towards this thing. And it was like a really rich storytelling. And you really like invested in all of these people. And it all comes to a head musically and horrifically, and with fire and it's just fucking incredible, actually. Actually, Nish, let's be honest. Sinners is fucking, has anyone ever said this? Sinners is fucking brilliant.

Speaker 8:
[26:23] The thing that it does is that it buys the right to do that. Because the opening three minutes of Sinners is so exciting and genuinely scary, like properly jump scary, because it has the kind of narrative structure of it starting at the end of the majority of its plot. And you just suddenly out of nowhere see this kid burst into a church, and the preacher, I think you establish quite quickly as his dad, and he's covered in blood, got a scar on his face, and he's got a smashed guitar with him. And then as he's walking down the kind of middle aisle of this church, it just flashes just quick shots of unimaginable violence happening. And it's a hell of a way to open a film. And so then he almost buys himself the right to let it breathe and give you all of the set up. Michael B. Jordan, all of the performances, unbelievable. Like that kid, Miles Catoon, first movie, unreal.

Speaker 7:
[27:17] Dora Lindo, one of my favorites.

Speaker 8:
[27:19] Woomie. Woomie Masako. Like what a performance. She is, and you're right, it was everything. It was intelligent. It was sexy. It was funny. It was incredibly moving. He, Kugler is, he's the guy.

Speaker 7:
[27:36] He's the best.

Speaker 8:
[27:36] He's, I really seriously think that when you look at a movie like Sinners, because he's not distancing himself from his experience in genre cinema, he's actually using things that he learned making Black Panther and Creed.

Speaker 7:
[27:48] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[27:49] To help essentially provide this kind of entertaining package that allows him to talk about race, colonialism, the things, the themes that Sinners takes in. One of the best lines I've ever seen, one of the best lines in any film is when Del Rolindo is talking about playing the blues. And he's in the car with Miles Cain and Michael B. Jordan. And I think Miles Cain expresses some surprises. Like, oh, he's talking about performing for white people. And he says something like, oh, you played the blues. And Del Rolindo says, see, white folks, they like the blues just fine. They just don't like the people who make it. And that is, when someone drops that, you're like, oof, and it's like Michael B. It's like Killmonger's line at the end of Black Panther when he says, you know, throw me overboard at CELO, my ancestors, because they knew death was better than bondage. You know, and you're like, oh my God. But it's also a vampire movie and it's really scary and incredibly entertaining. And I genuinely think if we needed more evidence, this should be the confirmation that Coogler is the real cinematic inheritor of Spielberg and Christopher Nolan. This is the person who makes cerebral films that are also unbelievably entertaining. He's making deeply intelligent, profoundly moving and quite important films for the biggest audience possible without dumbing them down in any way.

Speaker 7:
[29:07] It's like if Oklahoma had been written with Lawrence Hart.

Speaker 8:
[29:12] It is. It is. But the bit at the end. So I love blues. Like I love blues music, because I was a Hendrix obsessive when I was a kid. And so one of Jimi Hendrix's key inspirations is Buddy Guy. And so at the very end of the film, you think the film has ended, and then it suddenly flashes forward to the young kid who's now way older in Chicago in the early 90s, and he is played by Buddy Guy. And if you were a blues fan, that piece of stunt casting is just incredible, because Buddy Guy is one of the most important electric blues guitar players. And he has said that he was asked to do it, and he had no idea who Ryan Coogler was. And he said, but I think his kids and his grandkids said, you got to do this. You have to do this. And so he's playing the kind of old Sammy. There's also a lovely touch, which I don't think a lot of people realize, which is Buddy Guy has his own blues club. And I think in the narrative of that sequence, Sammy has his own blues club, and the club is called Pearlines, which is the name of the girl who he lost after that night. But there's a bit at the end where he says, Michael B. Jordan and Hailey Steinfeld, both brilliant, have come to see him dressed in some unbelievably era-appropriate early 90s gear. They've survived the movie. They're both vampires, and they come to see him at the very end of the film, and he's now played by Buddy Guy. So there's this great sort of, it's really funny because they're dressed like they're on their way to a party at the Fresh Prince of Bel Air's house. And so it's funny. And also this is really amazing piece of stunt casting. And then Buddy Guy says, maybe once a week, I wake up paralyzed reliving that night. But before the sun went down, I think that was the best day of my life. Was it like that for you? And Michael B. Jordan says, no doubt about it. The last time I see my brother, the last time I see the sun, just for a few hours, we was free. And you know what that is? That's levitation. That's levitation. That to me at the end was pure levitation. I thought it was. Yeah, I think it's extraordinary. I think it's an amazing film.

Speaker 7:
[31:12] It's fantastic.

Speaker 8:
[31:14] Coogler, man. He's the best.

Speaker 7:
[31:16] He's the best. Hasn't put a foot wrong.

Speaker 8:
[31:18] No.

Speaker 7:
[31:19] What is a 90s movie they don't make anymore, but they did in 2025?

Speaker 8:
[31:25] I answered this immediately at one of them days.

Speaker 7:
[31:28] Oh, yeah. Great answer. Absolutely right.

Speaker 8:
[31:31] Absolutely right. Mismatch buddy comedy.

Speaker 7:
[31:33] So fun. So funny.

Speaker 8:
[31:34] Weirdly low stakes. They're really funny. Both really charming. Cesar's... Kiki Palmer, we know Kiki Palmer's a star. We know Kiki Palmer's a star.

Speaker 7:
[31:43] No one's arguing with that.

Speaker 8:
[31:44] No one's arguing with that. And if they are...

Speaker 7:
[31:45] But did we know Cesar could act? We do now.

Speaker 8:
[31:47] We do now. Cesar's fucking amazing in it. Kiki Palmer is brilliant in it. Her greatest performance is Sorry To That Man. But yeah, she's brilliant. I'm very excited that she's in Boots Riley's new movie. I'm really, really excited about that. But we'll talk about that in about five years.

Speaker 7:
[32:06] From the producers of all of you, I'll have you know. Is it really?

Speaker 8:
[32:09] That's very exciting. Very exciting. I love boosters. But yeah, I thought one of them days was great. I thought that Cesar was great. Kiki Palmer was great. It was a proper 80s, 90s, double act comedy film. Beautiful.

Speaker 7:
[32:23] My answer for a 90s movie they don't make anymore, but they do in 2025, Roof Man.

Speaker 8:
[32:29] I didn't see Roof Man. Tell me about Roof Man.

Speaker 7:
[32:31] You like 90s movies?

Speaker 8:
[32:32] I love 90s movies.

Speaker 7:
[32:33] Indie films?

Speaker 8:
[32:34] Yeah, I love 90s Indie films.

Speaker 7:
[32:35] 90s Indie films. It's great. And I loved it. And what is interesting is you watch it and you go, it's like a character piece.

Speaker 8:
[32:41] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[32:42] Channing Tatum is great. Kirsten Dunst is great. Everyone's great. It's kind of sweet and moving and kind of exciting. But it is this kind of small, true story of a guy who breaks into A Toys R Us and lives there secretly. Because he wants to see his daughter and he can't. He's not allowed to. And he lives hidden in A Toys R Us and sort of looks at it.

Speaker 8:
[33:07] Even Toys R Us for your 90s. I don't know if it still exists anymore.

Speaker 7:
[33:12] It doesn't exist anymore, I don't think. And he has this relationship with this woman and it's kind of, I guess it's a true crime story, essentially, because it is a true story. And at the end, they show you loads of footage of like, oh, this really was all real. It was one of those.

Speaker 8:
[33:25] Oh, cool.

Speaker 7:
[33:25] But what is, I guess, kind of sad and curious about it as a thing is that they don't make films like this anymore. And I don't think it did very well sadly, commercially, even though I think it's a fantastic film. It's really lovely and great. But it is a kind of thing where you go, yeah, I don't know where this sort of story, which is kind of a small curiosity, it's like an interesting story. Really well done, really well acted, lovely characters, just great. But it doesn't have, I suppose, a big... It's the sort of film they used to make lots of films like this, and they don't really anymore.

Speaker 8:
[34:00] The problem is that when they are made now...

Speaker 7:
[34:01] And I don't know where it goes now.

Speaker 8:
[34:02] Well, the worry for me is when they are made now, they're stretched out into six part TV shows, which doesn't make sense for some, because not everything can be a TV show, you know.

Speaker 7:
[34:12] I'd recommend it. It's a really great film. You saw me on it. And I wish more people had seen it. Okay, here's a question for you. Best film that tells you life is pointless?

Speaker 8:
[34:26] Begonia.

Speaker 7:
[34:27] Oh, great answer.

Speaker 8:
[34:28] Begonia. I liked a lot of stuff about it. I really, again, very happy with Yorgos. Very happy with the Yorgos stone axis. They're both great. She's wonderful in it. Jesse Plemons, every year, we take a second to discuss Jesse Plemons, and we are right to. He's our Gene Hackman. He's such a brilliant actor. I really, one day I will advance my theory in a full thesis about how Plemons is really the 21st century Gene Hackman. I think he's incredible. He's great. Stavvy was great in it. Yeah. He's really good in it. Loved seeing Stavvy pop up in it for the comedy fans. I thought it was really great. I thought it digested some really interesting conversations we were all having about online radicalisation. It felt very informed. I liked the ending. I think the ending is divisive, but I enjoyed the ending. But at the end, I thought, well, we're fucked. I came away from Pagonia feeling really depressed. I think the idea that we're all existing in different realities, not even we disagree on something, we've got completely separate realities. And also, I think the thing that the film did really well was showing you how much corporate exploitation of poor people is driving further kind of online radicalization. People are in more extreme circumstances, so they're looking to more extreme solutions. And I think it's really good. I think it's a really, really good film. And it bummed me the fuck out, man. I was fucking... Amy was like, what's wrong with you? I was like, I've just watched Pagonia.

Speaker 7:
[35:59] It is a real debi-dana.

Speaker 8:
[36:01] The last one of those movies Amy saw was Poor Things. So Amy was like, the poor things guys. I was like, yeah, it's bleak, man. It's dark.

Speaker 7:
[36:10] It's really good. It's very dark.

Speaker 8:
[36:12] The kind of her performance and that kind of satire of corporate speak, and the sort of language that's used to cover up bad behavior was extraordinary. She is extraordinary. She's so brilliant. She can do anything. She's like Catherine Hepburn. I also think that there is a real kind of Catherine Hepburn quality to Emma Stone in general. And I thought that they exploited her kind of inherent likability in a really interesting way in Begonia. Because you warm to her, and yet she's a dick. And I thought that it played off that in a really interesting way.

Speaker 7:
[36:44] You're right.

Speaker 8:
[36:44] What was the film that bummed you out?

Speaker 7:
[36:46] I had two, Warfare and Marty Supreme.

Speaker 8:
[36:49] Why did Marty Supreme? Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 7:
[36:51] Well, so Joe Kelly, who I wrote the J-Lo film, he saw Marty Supreme and he loved it. And he told me, he said, I've seen Marty Supreme. It's so great. It's really uplifting ending. I went to see it. I was like, is it? It's great. But the ending, I think, and then I told him it and he went to see it again. He was like, oh no, I think you're right.

Speaker 8:
[37:10] Why did you think the ending was depressing? We must assume everybody is thinking this is a scene I was in.

Speaker 7:
[37:16] Because he's this kind of narcissist, like chasing things. He isn't emotionally connected to anything. And then at the end of the film, he sees his baby and he cries. And so for a split second, he feels connected and he cries. But then the film, what happens actually is he cries. So for one minute, he has it. He has the answer. And then his face slightly drops, and you just hear a baby crying, and then you hear more babies crying, more and more and more babies crying, and then it fades to black, and then the credits is just babies crying. And I think the film is telling you, yeah, it's all fucking pointless, and this baby's going to be fucked up too, and then all these other babies being born, they're all going to be fucked up, and no one's really connected. It just goes on and on. It's all fucking chaos and nothing means anything.

Speaker 8:
[38:02] I think that's a valid interpretation of that ending.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 8:
[38:35] I thought, because I thought it was so cartoonish in the way it was ending, I felt it was almost... I felt that he's connected for a moment, and my feeling is that it was really syrupy, but he feels every emotion way too loudly, but that doesn't mean he's actually changed. So for me, five minutes after that, he's gone back to trying to play ping pong. He's gone back to chaos. Abel Ferrara, one of the great cameos of the year. Great filmmaker cameo. Really good. Tyler, the creator, I thought was brilliant. I thought if he didn't know who he was, you would assume he was a New York theater actor. I thought he was great in it. Listen, we can't talk about it, but Mary Bronstein wrote...

Speaker 7:
[39:14] God, it'd be great if we could talk about it. If I had legs, I could kick you, but we have to wait till 2027.

Speaker 8:
[39:20] Ronald Bronstein co-wrote Marty Supreme and Uncut Gems. And if I had legs, again, we'll talk about it later, but it is basically Mumcut Gems. And you've got to believe that Mary and Ronald Bronstein's household, that they live it together, must be so stressful, or it's the most Zen place in human history, because they've got all of their neuroses out in their work. But yeah, I liked Marty Supreme. I would not recommend, if you haven't seen it, watching Uncut Gems too close to it, because Uncut Gems is the sort, I think is the platonic ideal of that type of film. And I think Marty Supreme is really great, just not if you've watched Uncut Gems the night before.

Speaker 7:
[39:57] And my other answer is Warfare, which I think is a really good film.

Speaker 8:
[40:01] Right.

Speaker 7:
[40:02] Did you see Warfare?

Speaker 8:
[40:03] I didn't see it. For the reasons that I thought, I was just like, oh God, this is going to bum me.

Speaker 7:
[40:06] It's a really, really good film. And what I love about it, it's an Alex Garland film. And I think the kind of mission was it was, he co-directed it with a person who has actually served in the army. And it was like an attempt at recreating an actual thing that I believe the other director had experienced during some conflicts. And so it's kind of, I think like 24 hours, and this army kind of go into this house in, I don't know that it's ever specified where we are or what time it is. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But they take over this house, kind of scare the family, and they take over this house, and they're kind of hunkering down there. And then they are surprise attacked. And it's really shocking. And all of them have kind of shell shock and lose their hearing and can't cope. And you watch them deal with this very, very intense, scary thing. And then when it's all done, they just drive off and leave this family, this house. Like there's just been all this destruction. And in a really like subtle sort of cool way, it's as if the ending was like, well, that was fucking pointless, wasn't it? Yeah. Like all of this death and it is a war is hell film, but without being about, it's just this very small thing. It just takes place around a house.

Speaker 8:
[41:23] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[41:23] And in the end, what was the fucking point of that?

Speaker 8:
[41:26] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[41:27] And I really, I mean, it's really depressing, but I really respected that. Just the kind of no frills. It's just this is what it's like. And at the end of the day, what was the fucking point of that?

Speaker 8:
[41:39] Well, at least America is not engaging in another illegal war in the Middle East, Brett.

Speaker 7:
[41:43] Thank you.

Speaker 8:
[41:44] So I have always supported the president's actions.

Speaker 7:
[41:49] Thank you, Nish. What are we probably? Okay. Last question. Okay. Best film about a relationship.

Speaker 8:
[42:00] Well, I thought I've gone with the bleaker interpretation of this. I thought Hard Truths was an amazing exploration of a really, of two really difficult relationships between two sisters and between a husband and wife. And I thought it. I thought it showed you in both instances, the cost of loving someone who is incapable of loving themselves and who is constantly kind of has this kind of brutal negativity at the core of their being and the toll that that takes on the people that love them. And I thought it was a very.

Speaker 7:
[42:38] You thought this is what it's like for Amy.

Speaker 4:
[42:40] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[42:46] And on a sunnier side, I thought that the relationship between the sisters and Sentimental Value was filled my heart with love. I thought it was wonderful.

Speaker 7:
[42:55] Beautiful answer.

Speaker 8:
[42:56] What was yours?

Speaker 7:
[42:57] Well, I like the relationship in Black Bag. I like what that said about relationships. But my, and it arguably is on my list of favorite film of the year, because we took my surprise. It's Together. Wow.

Speaker 8:
[43:09] So I haven't seen this. Tell me about, tell me about Together.

Speaker 7:
[43:12] I fucking love Together. It's Alison Brie and Dave Franco. And it is a kind of, arguably it's like a fun body horror film. But I genuinely think it is a profound statement about relationships. Because it's these, they play a couple, they're a real life couple, and they play a couple who are not meant to be together. You meet them early on and you're like, this is a bad relationship. And they're moving away together. And it's very clear they shouldn't be, you know, by any sort of measure, this is not a good fit, these two. And they go to this place where there's some weird shit going on. And basically they go for a walk and they fall into this. They basically get kind of, I don't know what the word for it is, cursed or struck by a thing which basically makes them physically drawn to each other in a way that they can't control, so much so that like their fingers latch on to each other and they can't pull apart. And so it's kind of a fun idea of like codependency and things like that. But in the end, the real, it's kind of, I think I'm spoiling, the kind of message as far as I read it, is it's saying any relationship can work. You can be soulmates with anyone if you completely give up, if you completely surrender yourself to each other, then it's good. Like it's, I don't want to tell exactly what happens at the end, but it is basically like give up. All the things that are in the way of you two is your own shit and your own trying to have your own identity and your own life and everything. And together, it's like, just fucking give up. You're together and just be one. And then it's a positive ending.

Speaker 8:
[45:12] Sometimes films are a raw shark ink blot, and the interpretation tells you more about the interpreter than the film. I think the message of this is everyone in a relationship's given up.

Speaker 7:
[45:26] Just fucking give up. Anyway, it also has an incredibly, for a film that's kind of funny and fun horror, has one of the scariest moments in a film. Really? Yeah. Genuinely, quite early in the film, there's just one moment which I won't spill for you, where I went, fucking shit. I think it's hugely underrated and underseen and I loved it.

Speaker 8:
[45:50] I'm into it. You've sold me on it. 100% you've sold me on it.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 7:
[46:24] We don't have time to talk about it, but obviously Weapons is fucking brilliant. Okay, so.

Speaker 8:
[46:27] Have we not talked about Weapons?

Speaker 7:
[46:28] We don't have time. It's so good that everyone knows it. And that's another one that's like a novel.

Speaker 8:
[46:33] Zack Krieger. What does that man, also it's like it's another movie like Barbarian. You were the one that told me that it's an improv game and it feels like an improv game. So you have a scene and then you follow the other character and then it flashes to what happened with the other character. And the ending of that film is perfect. It's perfect. Amy Madigan's performance, extraordinary.

Speaker 7:
[46:54] Wonderful.

Speaker 8:
[46:55] So glad she won the Oscar. Two of the great Oscar moments of all time, her winning and also her refusing to clap Elliot Kazan when he won his lifetime award for chief at Oscar because he named names to the McCarthy Commission.

Speaker 7:
[47:07] We have one minute left. Nish, you've been wonderful so much. So, well, before you go, what's your top 10?

Speaker 8:
[47:18] Okay. This is very quick. It might change at any point. But the only reason I knew that I had to talk about Cover Up was that it's in there. So my 10 in reverse order is, I'm still here, Cover Up, Hard Truths, Blue Moon, Nickel Boys, Die My Love, Sentimental Value, A Real Pain, Sinners, One Battle After Another.

Speaker 7:
[47:38] Mine are The Ballad Of All Is Silent, The Long Walk, Together, Weapons, One Battle After Another, The Brutalist, Sentimental Value, Trained Dreams, Sinners, Number One, I'm Still Here. Nish, what would you like to take with you? You died getting shot by the man. I stuffed you in a coffin. There's no room in it. There's only enough room, one DVD for you to take across the other side. We're moving out every night. What film from 2025 are you taking to show the people in heaven after you've been righteously assassinated?

Speaker 8:
[48:07] I can't do this. I have no ability to do it. So I'm just going to do this purely on the fact that I've seen One Battle After Another five times. So I'm going to go One Battle After Another.

Speaker 7:
[48:15] Wonderful. Nish, I love you.

Speaker 8:
[48:17] What are you taking?

Speaker 7:
[48:18] Oh, do I go too?

Speaker 8:
[48:19] Yeah, you go. What are you taking?

Speaker 7:
[48:21] I'm taking...

Speaker 8:
[48:22] What?

Speaker 7:
[48:23] You know what? I would take Train Dreams and everyone would be like, Whoa, man, we're in heaven. Nish, what do people need to do?

Speaker 8:
[48:33] Go to nishkumar.co.uk to buy tickets for my tour and to watch my stand-up special, Nish, Don't Kill My Vibe.

Speaker 7:
[48:40] Flannys favorite special of all time. Nish, what a joy. Thank you for doing this. It's lovely to see you here in the... Have I Got News for USA. Have a wonderful death. Good day to you. Thank you. So that was part two. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you're all well. I really appreciate you. Thanks to Scrubius Pip and the Distraction Pieces Network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and Lisa Lydon for the photography. Come and join me next week for another smasher of a guest. But that is it for now. I hope everyone is well. Thank you very much for listening. But in the meantime, have a lovely week. And please, now more than ever, be excellent to each other.