transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hey there, it's Hillary Frank. Here at The Longest Shortest Time, we cover all kinds of stories about parenthood and reproductive health, and we talk about kids of all ages. But when I started the show 16 years ago, I had just had a baby. So we've got a lot of stories about babies, and they are some of my favorites. In fact, I love them so much, I'm going to be airing one of those baby episodes from the archive every other week. And in between those, you'll get a brand new episode. Don't worry, you don't need to have a baby or any kids of your own to enjoy these stories. Happy listening. When my daughter was little and taking swim lessons, she didn't always want to get in the water. So I'd tell her that she could sit out as long as she needed until she was ready and felt safe. And this is why I love what Goldfish Swim School is doing. Goldfish Swim School is a premier parent trusted, learn to swim brand for ages four months to 12 years old. The water at Goldfish Swim School is warm and the whole experience is designed to be playful and make kids feel safe in the water. Each lesson at Goldfish Swim School includes professionally trained lifeguards. And Goldfish uses a research-based approach called the Science of Swim Play, which combines guided play with proven teaching techniques to help kids learn to swim, build water safety skills, and gain confidence all at their own pace. If you're ready to take the next step, Goldfish Swim School has a special offer just for listeners, waived membership and your first lesson free at participating locations. Head to goldfishswimschool.com/free, find your local school and use promo code FREE, F-R-E-E, to enroll. This is The Longest Shortest Time. I'm Hillary Frank. Today on the show, we've got the story of an incredible mom, a woman with an insanely demanding job and no partner, a woman who powers through childbirth under extreme emergency circumstances, really the most extreme you can imagine, all while saving the world from evil scrolls. I'm talking about Spider-Woman. She's a Marvel superhero best known recently for her role in the Avengers comics. Yep, that's the Avengers theme playing right now, though her character was not in the movie. Spider-Woman now stars in a new Marvel series. It's their first title character to be pregnant. The guy who writes this new Spider-Woman series, his name's Dennis Hopeless. Yeah, it's the best last name ever. It's not the name he was born with, though. He and his wife both started going by Hopeless when they got married.

Speaker 2:
[02:54] I think because we were 23 and wanted Rockstar last name to, instead of her taking my boring name or me taking her boring name, we'd come up with a new one.

Speaker 1:
[03:03] Dennis is relatively new to Marvel. He's been writing comics for them for the last few years. Lately, he's been on the X-Men series and Spider-Woman. But Spider-Woman herself has been part of the Marvel Universe for four decades.

Speaker 2:
[03:16] The original origin story is sort of weird and complicated. Her parents were like Hydra scientists, so like evil spy scientists, and she was very ill as a child, and they used experimental treatments to save her life, and in doing so, gave her sort of Spider-Man-ish Spider powers. So she can crawl up walls, and she has a thing called a Venom Blast, which is sort of like an electricity that flies out of her fingertips.

Speaker 1:
[03:50] Her name in everyday life is Jessica Drew. And so who is Jessica Drew in everyday life?

Speaker 2:
[03:57] Well, that was sort of the problem that we had, is that she was just Spider-Woman. Like her alter ego in her regular life had kind of gone away over the course of the last 40 years, and she was mostly just an Avenger. She dated Hawkeye and did lots of Avengery things and worked as a spy for SHIELD., but didn't really have a normal home life. And that started to bother her. She got, you know, she was over 30 now and kind of wanted to have that, wanted to have some normal. And when I took over the book, I guess a little over a year ago now, we decided to have her quit the Avengers and go back to doing more street level crime so she could kind of build a new normal life for herself.

Speaker 1:
[04:41] Why bring her back as a pregnant lady?

Speaker 2:
[04:45] Well, I had been writing it for about a year. And Marvel does these like annual events where all of the books kind of crossover, or most of the books crossover and tell some sort of big crazy world altering story. And last year, they did a book called Secret Orz, where the universe ended and got rebuilt to something else. And coming out of that event, the books were all relaunching with new number one. So if you wrote a book before that event, you took a few months off and you were coming back with a new story. And all of the stories were going to jump ahead eight months to kind of deal with the messiness of the world ended and came back. And so we were all asked to pitch what we wanted to do with the character. How do you want to change the story you've been telling after this eight month jump? And at the time when I was asked that question, our twin boys were five months old. So the very first thing that came out of my mouth is, can she be pregnant? My editor sort of laughed at me. But that idea just percolated in my mind for a few weeks. And we do these recreative retreats at Marvel, where all the writers and editors get into a room and kind of map out what all the books are going to do going forward. And I had to officially pitch what we were going to do with Jess. And the only idea I had that I really liked was the pregnancy idea. So I thought, well, I'm going to throw it out there. We'll see if the room hates it, then I'll come up with something else.

Speaker 1:
[06:05] So tell me how the pitch went. What did you say?

Speaker 2:
[06:09] I said, we've been telling a story about this Avenger that didn't have an alter ego, didn't have a normal life, trying to figure out normal and build a regular everyday life for herself that isn't just being a superhero. So what's a more interesting version of that than to hit her with a tidal wave of normal? What's the craziest thing that can happen in your life that is very normal but also very earth-shaking? And much to my surprise, the room loved it.

Speaker 3:
[06:35] Oh, he called me after the pitch and said, you're not going to believe this, but we're going to make Spider-Woman pregnant. And so I guess I kind of knew that we would be mining our experience for that.

Speaker 1:
[06:45] This, of course, is Jessie Hopeless, Dennis' wife and the mother of their twin boys. I've got to point out here, her name is Jessie. Spider-Woman's alter ego name is Jessica.

Speaker 2:
[06:56] Yes, yes, yes. That is confusing all the time.

Speaker 1:
[07:00] So this name thing, it's just a coincidence. Remember, Spider-Woman was created long before Jessie was even born. But just to be clear, when we're talking about Jessica Drew, we mean Spider-Woman. When we're talking about Jessie, we mean Jessie Hopeless. Jessie, what role did you play in making this comic?

Speaker 3:
[07:18] Almost none. I'm mostly just there to listen.

Speaker 2:
[07:21] She's saying she doesn't type. She contributed a ton. I couldn't have done it without her in any way, shape, or form. The conversations we had while she was pregnant and since, were the impetus for it, and that's the whole reason it was in my head.

Speaker 3:
[07:32] Well, you're just saying you listen.

Speaker 2:
[07:37] I think that's what my job is. Mostly, I try to draw from life and from human experience to tell these crazy superhero stories. And it was the most real thing I've ever gone through and I went through it with her. And once I started doing it, once we started plotting and figuring out what we wanted to do, I ran everything by her. Like, I don't want to get this wrong. I think the insincere version of this story would be very bad. So she's contributed more than she knows.

Speaker 1:
[08:05] Jessie is a tattoo artist. She specializes in large body art, realistic portraits that take up most of an arm or a leg. Jessie herself has nine tattoos, which she says is not much for a tattoo artist. The biggest is a sleeve covering most of her arm, with a girl pouring a glass of wine. But no mom tattoos.

Speaker 3:
[08:26] Not yet. It's like such a big thing to distill into one image.

Speaker 1:
[08:29] Jessie says she does this all the time for customers. She helps them come up with the perfect image to represent some big, meaningful experience. But she hasn't been able to do that for herself with motherhood. Even though her twins are still just toddlers, it's felt like just a bunch of snapshots. Not one big cohesive experience. And lots of those snapshots are of times that were incredibly frustrating and hard, and sometimes super gross. Coming up, she and Dennis will share some of those moments with us. Don't go away. If you're like me and you love making little upgrades to your home, but you don't love the price tag that comes with it, you are going to want to take advantage of Way Day from Wayfair. This happens April 25th through the 27th, and you can score the best deals in home, like up to 80 percent off with free shipping on everything. I would say my home style is kind of eclectic. We've got a little mid-century modern, a little antique. There's also the stuff that the former owners of our house left behind when they moved out more than a decade ago that we just haven't replaced. Things like the kitchen stools, which are all dinged up and the paint is chipping. And so I went to Wayfair and did a search, and all I had to do was type in counter stools, and a bunch of different options came back. After I ordered the stools, they arrived so fast, like seriously, two days later, I couldn't believe it. Wayday is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80 percent off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to wayfair.com April 25th through the 27th to shop Wayday. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. I have what my doctor calls a reactive airway. I get coughing fits and congestion from all kinds of things, dust, pollen, leaf mold. And that's why I'm so excited to try Air Doctor. Air Doctor is an air purifier that helps reduce allergy symptoms, helps you sleep better, and cuts down on odors. Here's how it works. Air Doctor's powerful three-stage filtration captures extremely small particles, about 100 times smaller than what typical air purifiers can remove. It captures airborne contaminants that you don't want to be breathing in. Dust, pollen, mold spores, pet dander, wildfire smoke, bacteria, viruses. And Air Doctor is whisper quiet. It's not loud like other air purifiers on the market. Air Doctor also has an auto mode feature to ensure optimal air 24-7. And it's got change filter reminders. So there's no more guesswork about when to change your filters. And get this, Air Doctor won Newsweek's Reader's Choice Award for Best Air Purifier. Head to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code LongShort to get up to $300 off today. Air Doctor comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee plus a 3-year warranty, an $84 value free. Get this exclusive podcast-only offer now at airdoctorpro.com. That's airdoctorpro.com using promo code LongShort. Okay, did you know that 3 out of 4 US homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water? Even though contaminated water looks clear, it could put you at risk for devastating health concerns, including fatigue, hormone disruption, cognitive decline, even cancer. Surprisingly, standard fridge and pitcher filters do little to remove most contaminants and bottled water contains microplastics. So what's the solution? Introducing AquaTru, the countertop water purifier, tested and certified to remove 84 contaminants, including chlorine, lead, forever chemicals, and microplastics. It's patented four-stage reverse osmosis system goes way beyond ordinary filters for pure healthy water you can trust. No plumbing, no installation. AquaTru has been featured in Business Insider, Popular Science, and named best countertop water filter by Good Housekeeping. Join 98% of customers who say their drinking water is cleaner, safer, and healthier. Go to aquatru.com now for 20% off your purifier using promo code LongShort. AquaTru even comes with a 30-day best tasting water guarantee. That's aquatru.com. aquatru.com. Promo code L-O-N-G-S-H-O-R-T. We're back with Dennis and Jessie Hopeless. The Hopelesses often spend nights working side-by-side with beers at the dining room table. He'll be writing, she'll be drawing. Sometimes, if they don't have to concentrate too hard, they'll watch pro wrestling on TV. But no matter what, Dennis is always, always asking for Jessie's input on his stories and his wording. So do you guys have the first issue of Spider-Woman there in front of you?

Speaker 2:
[13:48] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] Jessie, I wonder if you can open it up and read Jessica Drew's first line.

Speaker 3:
[13:56] I never wanted children, not even a little.

Speaker 1:
[14:00] Does that come from your own experience? Is that a thought that you had when entering motherhood?

Speaker 3:
[14:06] Yeah, both of us. Yeah, we were married for 10 years before we even considered having kids. And then when we got married, we decided to postpone the conversation for like five years. Wasn't that the?

Speaker 2:
[14:20] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[14:21] That was the deal.

Speaker 2:
[14:22] 28 was the plan.

Speaker 3:
[14:23] Yeah, we were going to be, we got married kind of young. We were going to be 28 before we resumed the conversation about kids. And 28 came and we were kind of like, I mean, are you even close? And both of us, both of us were still at the place where we would go to parties with children and come home like high fiving. No babies.

Speaker 1:
[14:43] And how did you come around to the idea?

Speaker 3:
[14:45] My sister has two amazing kids, and Dennis' sister has two amazing kids.

Speaker 1:
[14:50] One of their teenage nieces did this thing for Dennis a couple years ago back when he started at Marvel. He was given this assignment to write a comic called Avengers Arena, Kill or Die. It's basically the story of 16 superhuman teens fighting a big death match. Only one can survive. People were outraged by the idea of teens killing each other. And before he'd even started writing it, Dennis got pummeled with internet hate, death threats and stuff. He'd never been in the public spotlight before and it really got to him. His niece, though, she noticed all the nice things people were saying about him on the internet. So she made him a book of all of those things. She even followed up with some people on Twitter saying, Hey, Dennis Hopeless is my uncle. Do you have anything encouraging to tell him? This book that the niece made, it changed things for Jessie.

Speaker 3:
[15:39] I think when we realized we would like jump in front of a bus for those kids, we thought, well, maybe this wouldn't be so bad.

Speaker 2:
[15:45] It was super scary. I think Jessie turned to that corner faster than I did. I was just abjectly terrified until the day the boys were born, that it was going to be horrible and change our lives in all these awful ways, and that I was going to be terrible at it.

Speaker 1:
[16:02] What were you afraid of?

Speaker 2:
[16:04] My father was around and was, he tried, you know, but he was not the father that I think I needed. And my mom was fantastic and she picked up the slack. That's, it worked out okay, I guess. But I was just always terrified that like whatever it was that made it so hard for him to be the dad that I needed that would be the same case with me. Like that I wasn't going to be able to do it, I was going to be bad at it, I was going to be too selfish. And I have not found that to be the case. Like it clicked for me in a way that I think it must not have for my dad.

Speaker 1:
[16:39] And you have twin boys. How old are they now?

Speaker 3:
[16:41] 16 months. They're little rugrats.

Speaker 1:
[16:44] You're at the beginning of this.

Speaker 3:
[16:45] Yeah. It doesn't feel like it. It feels like we just survived war. But yeah, we are at the beginning.

Speaker 2:
[16:51] It seems really easy now. I took them by myself to Chipotle the other day and sat there and fed them a burrito bowl.

Speaker 1:
[16:57] This is not product placement, by the way.

Speaker 2:
[17:01] This woman sat next to us with her son and they were eating. And her son was whispering something at his mom. And she leaned over and she said, my son wants to know when you get to eat. And I laughed because I wasn't planning on eating. When I got home, the point of going there was to feed them. And I realized that, from other people's perspective, it still looks hard. But that first year is so tough that anything now seems like a breeze.

Speaker 1:
[17:26] What was it like finding out you were going to have twins?

Speaker 2:
[17:30] Horrifying. We found out in the sonogram room. We went in and the tech started it up and said, you know, there's two in there, right? And Jessie and I both laughed, thinking this was an ice breaking joke. And he just looked at us like we were crazy. And we said, you're kidding, right? And he goes, no, I wouldn't joke about that. People would freak out. And then I sat silently with my mouth open for the next hour and a half. Freaking out.

Speaker 3:
[17:59] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[18:01] What were you picturing?

Speaker 3:
[18:03] Well, I thought it was hilarious because I wasn't picturing anything except the two little nuggets that were like in the sonogram. I, because I had no idea. I didn't know what parenthood was going to be like. I didn't picture a thing beyond like the pregnancy. That probably is weird. But I couldn't really imagine the babies until they were born. Maybe Dennis knew more than I did because he was terrified.

Speaker 2:
[18:28] The whole, the whole experience of Jessie being pregnant felt a lot like falling in the dream. Like where I was just plummeting through my daily life. And it, you know, I knew that the bottom was coming up at some point and I was going to, I was going to feel it. But everything around me was just like a wind tunnel. And that, in that moment, that intensified, like it doubled. The ground opened up and swallowed me.

Speaker 1:
[18:54] So in the comic book, Jessica Drew, who is Spider-Woman, her best friend is a woman named Carol, who is also Captain Marvel. There's this scene where Captain Marvel tries to talk Jessica into delivering her baby at a special intergalactic hospital. And Jessie, I wonder if you can turn to that page in the comic book. And Jessie, why don't you do Spider-Woman and Dennis, you do Captain Marvel when she's trying to convince her to go to this special space hospital.

Speaker 2:
[19:29] It's bizarre to read my own dialogue aloud, but I will do this. Hey, listen, did you get a chance to think about my offer?

Speaker 3:
[19:36] I'm pregnant, Carol, I'm not dying.

Speaker 2:
[19:39] I know, I'm not trying to strap you to a table, we just have a lot of medical resources and...

Speaker 3:
[19:43] I have a doctor, I have a hospital, I don't need intergalactic super technology to have a baby.

Speaker 2:
[19:48] It's not just tech, it's also a variety of experience. We have a nine-armed, 3,000-year-old doula. She's attended hundreds of thousands of weirdo space deliveries.

Speaker 3:
[19:58] Ancient alien doula, huh?

Speaker 2:
[20:00] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[20:00] I see, and how would you describe your doula's shape?

Speaker 2:
[20:03] What?

Speaker 3:
[20:04] Her general body shape, would you say she's roughly?

Speaker 2:
[20:07] No, Jess, my doula is not oblongata.

Speaker 3:
[20:10] Ha! That's a damn shame. I can't believe you made me read that joke. Oh, I gave him so much crap for that joke. He wrote it and he came downstairs and read it to me. He was so proud and I had the same reaction that Jess did. Like, you've got to be kidding me.

Speaker 1:
[20:33] So, this scene felt to me like it must be based on experiences that you had of people giving you advice as expecting parents.

Speaker 3:
[20:42] Oh, sure. Yeah. Oh, you're not going to go to a hospital, are you? Oh, you're not going to have a baby at home, are you? Like, you couldn't make the right decision to please half of your friends and family.

Speaker 2:
[20:55] And I remember whenever we had to switch to a hospital because it became a high-risk birth when we were twins, everyone came out of the woodwork to tell us how relieved they were. We were no longer going to the crazy hippie facility.

Speaker 1:
[21:07] So Jessica Drew, Spider-Woman, takes maternity leave starting at the end of her pregnancy. And she seems very torn about having to give up fighting bad guys. And we see her think the line, with great baby comes the crushing weight of parental responsibility, which, of course, is a twist on the Spider-Man line. With great power comes great responsibility. And I wonder what you two in your real lives have had to sacrifice in becoming parents.

Speaker 3:
[21:36] Spontaneity. Yeah, I mean, obviously spontaneity.

Speaker 2:
[21:40] We did a lot of traveling. Like the five years before we had kids, we went to Morocco and Paris and Barcelona and Thailand. And we're confused why all of the other travelers there were either 15 years younger than us or 20 years older. It didn't make sense why Thailand was full of young and old people. But yeah, now when we travel with the boys, it's a nightmare in every way.

Speaker 1:
[22:05] Like what happens when you travel with them?

Speaker 2:
[22:09] Oh, Lord.

Speaker 3:
[22:11] Our kids got epically sick on the way home from Mexico just like a couple months ago. So we should have known it was bad. But Dodge starts puking in the food court of the airport and everywhere. And we were appalled because it's a horrible mess and the kid is really sad. And so we spend all this time cleaning it all up. He's just sitting naked just in a diaper in the totally disgusting, at this point, stroller. That was not the worst of it. We get to the jet bridge and colon barfs everywhere. And all these passersby are horrified and like, oh my god, as they're having to step around this pile of puke on the floor. And I'm mortified, because this is like my worst nightmare. Like being the parent with the kids who are horrifying everyone else is like, easily in the top five worst moments.

Speaker 2:
[23:07] And we're right at the edge of the jet bridge before you get on. And the flight attendants, it's clear from their language that they can't tell us we're not allowed on the plane, but they'd really like us to make that decision for ourselves. Like they're asking us all sorts of leading questions about, well, do you guys feel sick? Do you know if he has a fever? And so Jessie pulls out the baby thermometer and proves that he doesn't have a fever and says, no, the rest of us are fine. It's probably just something he ate. And by the end of that trip, we had all vomited. And we had to push the babies through customs naked except for a diaper or wearing trash bags around their necks. So when they vomited, they had somewhere for it to go.

Speaker 3:
[23:45] Yeah, it was terrible.

Speaker 1:
[23:47] This right here, this is Jessie Hopeless' real life superhero moment, or one of them. Another, she says, is when she learned to breastfeed her twins at the same time. It's called tandem breastfeeding. She'd use a giant nursing pillow, and at first Dennis would wrangle one baby onto one boob while she'd latch the other baby onto the other boob. Within a couple of weeks though, she figured out how to do the whole shebang on her own. Yeah, total superhero stuff. Sometimes, though, you just feel like it would be nice to have a real superpower to get you through the tough times in parenting. In a minute, Dennis and Jessie tell us what superpower they'd pick. Stay with us. Okay, I've got a question for you. Do you wear socks? Here's another one. Do your kids wear socks? If the answer was yes to either of those questions, you should be getting your socks from Bombus. I have so many different kinds of socks from Bombus. I especially love their Merino running socks because they're moisture wicking, they fight odor, they're super cushioned, and they have lasted me for years. But Bombus doesn't just make socks, they've also got footwear, and I just put it in order for their sandals. They come in so many colors. I got light blue. They're waterproof, they slide right on, and they're going to be perfect for hanging out in the yard and going to the pool. And for every item you purchase with Bombus, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated, with over 150 million donations and counting. Head over to bombus.com/lst and use code LST for 20 percent off your first purchase. That's bombas.com/lst, code LST at checkout. Life is hard, and whenever possible, I like for things to feel easy, like getting dressed in the morning. And that is why I keep coming back to Quince. Quince's pieces are easy to wear, easy to care for, and easy on my wallet. Quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials like 100 percent European linen, organic cotton, super soft denim, with styles starting from around 50 bucks. Their spring pieces are lightweight, breathable, and effortless. I've got a pair of their linen shorts and a matching short sleeve button up. I can wear these pieces together. I can wear them as separates. I can dress them up. I can dress them down. And they're so comfortable. The shorts have elastic in them, and a little tie in the front is really cute. Refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/longshort for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com/longshort for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com/longshort. We're back with Dennis and Jessie Hopeless. Dennis, sometimes I think that moms feel weak at times when what their partners are observing is that they're actually being bad asses. Have you experienced this with Jessie, like noticing that she might feel like not her best self, but what you're seeing is a badass lady?

Speaker 2:
[27:14] Yeah, 100 percent, all the time. Jessie has always been the adult in our relationship. She's always been the one that, she does the taxes. She's the one that makes sure we have money in the bank account and she takes care of everything and always has. And watching her do all of that, most of that still, and take care of these two kids, that anytime I have them, I do nothing else. Like I'm done working, I'm done being a human being, I'm going to be dad for two or three hours and I'm going to put them to bed and then I'm going to lay on the couch and stare at the wall for another hour. And Jessie does it all. She does everything she always did. And I think when she gets overwhelmed, yeah, like you said, I think she feels like she's working or it's not working or it's super overwhelming. And I just see, you just did everything I do in a day plus ten other things. And it's amazing. It's incredible to watch. There's a reason that I'm writing a superhero mom now. I live with one.

Speaker 3:
[28:11] That's really nice.

Speaker 1:
[28:12] Jessie says Dennis is just giving her credit for doing all the boring money stuff. He does all the grocery shopping, all the cooking. They figured out along the way how to keep things feeling equal. For a while, they were sleeping in shifts. Now, it turns out all the main players behind this new Spider-Woman book are new dads. The artist, the editor, and Dennis, the writer. And they wanted to make sure that this book showed parenting in a way that felt real.

Speaker 2:
[28:39] We wanted to make sure that breastfeeding happened and wasn't a big deal. We didn't want to make a huge deal out of it, but it needed to be there. And we wanted to issue five, which actually isn't out yet, is all about how insane the first couple months when you get home are and how out of your mind you are and terrified and the hard parts of this get glossed over so quickly in fiction usually, where you see how scary the hospital is and then the next thing you know, they've changed the character to talking about daycare.

Speaker 1:
[29:10] So in this series, Spider-Woman delivers her baby by cesarean. Why did you make that choice to have her deliver by a C-section?

Speaker 2:
[29:19] Well, I mean, the simple answer is because I've never seen a vaginal birth. Like I've never been there for that. Jessie was in labor for, I don't know, 30 hours or something and then got an infection and we had to move to the operating room when she hadn't eaten for two days. And it was this, like waiting while I put on my paper pajamas to go in there, waiting for what was supposed to be five minutes and took 25 is the most scared I've ever been in my life. Like I was convinced that something horrible was happening. And then you walk into this alien autopsy room where the lights are too bright and everything's metal. And there's a sheet up hanging over her head as she lies on a metal table staring up. But blood splatters up on the sheet. And if you look to the right of the sheet, you see a canister that's slowly filling up with horrible gore as they do this surgery. And I mean, I can't imagine what it was like from her perspective. Like we've talked about it and I tried to put as much of that in the book as I could. But it was terrifying from mine. And so, because, I mean, you know, there's the silly things in the books and there's absurd things in the book. But I wanted those moments and those things to be as real as I could make them. It just made sense to, you know, to use some version of what I saw.

Speaker 1:
[30:36] It's what you saw, but you kind of had to put yourself in your wife's head.

Speaker 2:
[30:40] Yeah, we took these birthing classes before, or I don't know what they're called.

Speaker 1:
[30:46] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[30:46] We took birthing classes with a little lady that came to our house before the babies were born. And one of the things that she had me do is lie down on the couch and she held a sheet up over me to show me what it looks like from the perspective of the mom while C-section is happening and how scary it is to just see a sheet and how much different it is whenever someone you trust is looking, like holding your hand and looking at you in the eye. So, while the C-section was going on, you know, in real life, I kept that in mind and tried to think about what this was like for Jessie. So, I don't, you know, I don't know how close I got in the book to what it was really like, but I tried to empathize as much as possible.

Speaker 1:
[31:31] Spider-Woman is also a single mom. Dennis thought about creating a partner for her to be the father in the story, but he decided against it.

Speaker 2:
[31:40] I would be interested in writing a story about parents and about a fatherhood experience because obviously I'm living that. But for Jess, it just made more sense that this is a story about her pregnancy and her child and not some dude we threw in at the last minute.

Speaker 1:
[31:57] Either one of you can answer this. What superpower do you most wish you could have as a parent?

Speaker 3:
[32:04] We answer exactly the same thing.

Speaker 2:
[32:05] Yeah, we would like a pause button so we can stop the world, you know, like for a variety of reasons. So you can actually sleep or so if you're holding one of your kids and the other one's about to pull the lamp down onto himself, you could stop it and get over there.

Speaker 3:
[32:21] You could pause your kid's life so you're not missing anything and go live your own completely and then come right back. And you could pause your kids at, you know, the age they are and appreciate it. That would be amazing.

Speaker 1:
[32:37] How have readers responded to this new chapter in Spider-Woman's story?

Speaker 2:
[32:42] Almost all of the feedback that I've gotten has been amazing. There are a couple of different mom comic book reviewers who have, like I think Moms Read Comics is one of the Twitter handles that this woman goes by and she has been fantastic and really supporting the book and really thanking us for, you know, putting breastfeeding in there, for instance, like just having a panel where Jess is breastfeeding is not a big deal. And so that's been fantastic, but I've been surprised how much just traditional comic book dudes have been into it. Like guys that like Jessica Drew because she was a super spy and an avenger are reading it and like this is not what I expected it to be. I think a lot of people expected it to be either really superficial version of the story or some sort of weird science fiction version of the story. And there's weird science fiction in the book for sure, but the pregnancy we're doing is sincerely as we can. And so, yeah, it seems like it's resonating with folks in the way that we'd hoped.

Speaker 1:
[33:39] Can you tell us what's next for Spider-Woman?

Speaker 2:
[33:42] Yeah, issue five is the post-birth maternity leave issue. So it's all about just dealing with, holy hell, this is real now. What's my life? How do I go back to work? How do I figure all this stuff out? And then, from that, after that, that's the end of the pregnancy arc. And issue six, we launch into a big universe-hopping Spider-Woman crossover, where we crossover with the two other female Spider character books, Silk and Spider-Gwen, and Jess gets trapped in an alternate dimension and has to deal with a bunch of crazy stuff. So we're launching right back into superhero fun after issue five.

Speaker 1:
[34:25] Is Spider-Woman's baby also gonna have superpowers?

Speaker 2:
[34:29] I mean, it's possible, right? Like, there's the potential for that.

Speaker 3:
[34:32] You're so coy.

Speaker 2:
[34:33] But right off the bat, he's very normal. We're gonna make the baby, at least at first, very normal and not in peril in just the part of her life that is not superheroing. But judging by past experience with superheroes and their offspring, I would say this is definitely a possibility.

Speaker 1:
[34:55] I highly recommend Marvel's new Spider-Woman series. Dennis Hopeless and the artist Javier Rodriguez just totally nailed early motherhood. Also, this is very exciting. We are debuting panels from issue five on our website. This issue covers Jessica Drew's first couple of months with her baby. You cannot see these pages anywhere else right now. So go to longestshortesttime.com to check them out. And to find links to the rest of the series. While you're there, leave us a comment telling us what parenting superpower you wish you could have. Again, that's longestshortesttime.com. Find the comics and leave your comment on this episode. That's episode 76. This podcast is produced by me, Hillary Frank and Abigail Keele. We've got our very own in-house superhero, Mr. Peter Clowney. Peter edited this episode while driving his son to school, and somehow managed to avoid hitting a mystical white squirrel. Our engineers this week are Pete Karam and the Reverend John Delore. Our theme music is by the Batteries Duo. We get editorial support from Anne-Marie Baldonado and Antonia Akitunde. If you are new to our show, and even if you're not, there are a couple of things that I want to ask you to do. First and most importantly, please make sure you're subscribed to The Longest Shortest Time in iTunes. That way, you'll never miss a show, and you will help us to rise in the iTunes ranks, which makes it easier for new people to find the podcast. Second, I want to ask you to follow us on Facebook. We post new shows there, but we also ask lots of questions, and sometimes we use your answers on the show. Here at The Longest Shortest Time, we love to hear your stories, we love to tell your stories, so give us something fun to tell. Go to longestshortesttime.com and submit your story.

Speaker 4:
[37:14] Reality TV is messy. Pop culture is louder than ever. And the internet.

Speaker 5:
[37:19] Completely unhinged.

Speaker 4:
[37:20] Welcome to Roxanne.

Speaker 5:
[37:22] And Chantelle.

Speaker 4:
[37:23] The podcast where cousins Roxanne and Chantelle break down reality TV, celebrity drama, and the stories everyone's texting about.

Speaker 5:
[37:30] We recap the shows.

Speaker 4:
[37:31] Spill the headlines.

Speaker 5:
[37:32] And sit down with the stars themselves.

Speaker 4:
[37:34] No filter.

Speaker 5:
[37:36] No boring takes.

Speaker 4:
[37:37] Just the tea.

Speaker 5:
[37:38] New episodes every week.

Speaker 4:
[37:40] If it's trending, we're talking about it. This is Roxanne.

Speaker 5:
[37:44] Ange and Toe.

Speaker 4:
[37:45] Let's get into it.

Speaker 6:
[37:47] Oh, please. Not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

Speaker 5:
[37:51] Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here.

Speaker 6:
[37:54] Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

Speaker 5:
[37:57] And what about Unsolved Mysteries? The show that jumpstarted all of our love of true crime.

Speaker 6:
[38:02] I'm Ellen Marsh.

Speaker 5:
[38:04] And I'm Joey Taranto.

Speaker 6:
[38:05] And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories from your favorite true crime campy TV shows all the way to Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 5:
[38:15] Baby, you will laugh, you will cry, you'll think about true crime in a whole new way, and you'll also ask yourself, who gave these people mics?

Speaker 6:
[38:23] New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

Speaker 5:
[38:29] And every Monday, you can listen to our True Crime Rundown, where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

Speaker 6:
[38:36] So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcasts.