transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:10] And we're back with an all-new episode of Keep It! I'm Louis Virtel. Now, here's what's going on. I realized that Nicole Kidman is back on TV, Anne Hathaway is in another movie with Mother in the title, and Madonna is back with a new single. So when the producers were talking to me this week about what we were going to do, I said, bring me a gay man. In a rage, I said it. And look who I found. One of my longest friends in LA, the esteemed New York Times movie writer, and advocate magazine alum as I am, Kyle Buchanan.

Speaker 2:
[00:40] Happy to be here, Louis. Also, shout out to Ivy Wolk, who was on fire last week.

Speaker 1:
[00:44] Oh, please imagine her being any other way. Yes. No, it's upsetting actually, when someone who's 21 years old knows all your references. Because that was my thing. I love being the young person with all the references, and now I'm wizened, and now we have another one.

Speaker 2:
[00:58] But very happy to be here to talk about the things that as we were just saying to each other, we talk about for free in our actual lives.

Speaker 1:
[01:04] I feel bad that there are no more dimensions to my personality. Like if you run into me at Akbar, which is where Kyle and I often run into each other, we will just be talking about the new Anne Hathaway movie. So it's like immersive theater. You always get a part of it.

Speaker 2:
[01:16] Oh yeah, I mean, at my gay poker game that I throw every week, I think two weeks ago, I snuck into the mix, one of Anne Hathaway songs from Mother Mary, and it came on and two people raised their heads and said, Anne Hathaway?

Speaker 1:
[01:32] They're like, I know that timbre.

Speaker 2:
[01:34] So we're about this life, is what we're saying.

Speaker 1:
[01:36] But speaking of places you've been, you were at Coachella last week.

Speaker 2:
[01:40] I was.

Speaker 1:
[01:41] Now, first of all, my first question is, do you regret not going week two?

Speaker 2:
[01:44] You know, honestly, most of the time, weekend one has all the great guests. And this year, they were saving all the surprises for weekend two. And even some of the performances were a lot more activated. I feel like Justin Bieber kind of like worked out the kinks and delivered something that made more sense. Do I regret not going? No, insofar as we had better weather. True. And the dust storm kicked up from a week of people walking around. The previous week is immense. And I already had enough long problems after weekend one. But it was fun to watch the live stream. It was amazing to see Madonna come out during Sabrina Carpenter.

Speaker 1:
[02:24] Obviously, this is extremely overwhelming for me. You can't just throw that name out there like that. Only I may bring her up first. It's like a vampire threshold thing. Yes, Sabrina Carpenter brought out Madonna. But before we get to that, let's just first bring up that Sabrina Carpenter brought out Gina Davis doing a monologue in a car. And by the way, the reason she did that was because last week she had Susan Sarandon do the same one. Who is the faggot on that team who put together the thumb on Louise Math?

Speaker 2:
[02:50] Well, absolutely, and that was great. I will say, watching that Sabrina set in person last week and then on the live stream this time, the interludes were very interesting. I feel like Sabrina's whole vibe is like fun, camp, sex. And yet, she was kind of introducing these sort of like Twin Peaks The Return, black and white, scary interludes with Sam Elliott. Last week when Susan Sarandon did her monologue, it was much longer. And I think a lot of people who were coming off their role were somewhat confused by what is happening and what's going on. And I did see that on the live stream this week when Gina Davis appeared, a lot of people simply did not know who that was.

Speaker 1:
[03:31] That, which is their fucking problem.

Speaker 2:
[03:33] Well, I do appreciate that Sabrina is willing to educate the children, you know, like whether it comes to Gina Davis and Madonna being out there, you know, she brought out Earth, Wind and Fire at Lollapalooza, because sometimes the children do need to be educated.

Speaker 1:
[03:45] Did you think for a second, Gina Davis, Madonna, will the Rockford Peaches be reunited right here?

Speaker 2:
[03:50] Absolutely. Where's Lori Petty?

Speaker 1:
[03:51] Please.

Speaker 2:
[03:51] Probably commenting on the live stream.

Speaker 1:
[03:53] Also, by the way, I'm always asking where Lori Petty is. That's just a fair question, period.

Speaker 2:
[03:58] And she's right there.

Speaker 1:
[03:59] Yes. Love Tank Girl, by the way. Yes, but Sabrina brought out Madonna. Then they did Vogan Like a Prayer. But also they have a new song on Sabrina's new album, which actually I don't have the title up right here because Madonna has another new single right now called I Feel So Free. It's not really the first single, it's just the first track on her new album, Confessions 2, a sequel to Confessions on a Dance Floor. And what did you think of the display we got, the vocals we did or didn't get? And how they vibed together on stage?

Speaker 2:
[04:30] I love the way that they vibed together. I personally might have started Madonna off already on the lower floor.

Speaker 1:
[04:37] When she started way at the top of that staircase, it's like I'm having visions of, I'm sorry, Miss Piggy flying down, like tumbling over herself down the stairs.

Speaker 2:
[04:47] Look, I would probably fall down the stairs in sneakers.

Speaker 1:
[04:50] Yeah, that's what I mean.

Speaker 2:
[04:52] But especially if you're in heels, and at least she had hunky backup dancers who were willing to bring her down there. I loved it. Honestly, the thing I loved the most, in addition to the songs, is the very long spoken interlude about astrology.

Speaker 1:
[05:07] Excuse me, this is actually now a Madonna standard. If you go to a concert, it is her prerogative to stop the concert dead in its tracks to talk for a long time and repeat herself 16 times. Astrology is a relatively new thing she is obsessed with, at least in terms of what she brings to the public. Usually, it would just be explaining her history, giving you the tall tale about how she came to New York with $35 in her pocket. It's like I simply don't know if that's true or if she has watched her own behind the music enough times that she actually believes it. But yes, she went on an astrology tear that I believe she thought was amusing, but was mostly just the words of astrology.

Speaker 2:
[05:48] I don't know if the astrology is true either, but I loved it because it was pure Madonna being Madonna. They had added an extra 10 minutes to her set, to Sabrina's set over the previous weekend, which you would presume is for the singing, but I think was actually for the talking. And for as much fun as Sabrina was duetting with Madonna, I found Sabrina to be at her most fun watching Madonna talk in an unscripted fashion for a long time.

Speaker 1:
[06:16] And she handled it just right because she responded with just enough wit and a little bit of that pin upy bounce that Sabrina Carpenter has. They're also an interesting pair because they both are funny and cheeky and sexy, and they both have that kind of Mae West thing about them, like, oh, say something to me and you'll get a one-liner back. But they also are kind of, they're not the same in a way, like Madonna's aggressive and Sabrina is more light and fluffy.

Speaker 2:
[06:44] She's cheekier and Madonna's had cheek at times, but like it's not what she leads with. But still, Sabrina and the other pop girls would not have the sort of careers that they have nor put on the sort of shows towards concerts that they do if it weren't for Madonna. She is the blueprint. So I appreciate Sabrina bringing out Madonna, especially because I don't know that the average 21-year-old Sabrina fan really knows that much about Madonna. They know that she is famous. They know that this woman who has come out is very famous. That's why they've got their phones out. But have they heard like a prayer? I'm not entirely sure. I think the most seismic Madonna event of their sentient lives is probably when Glee did an episode on it 16 years ago.

Speaker 1:
[07:30] Yes, and that's still 16 years ago. Yeah, no, I too am curious what people's actual knowledge of her is at this point, because you hear pop stars pay lip service to her. Like, oh, well, she paved the way, but we also do, I don't think people know what that means, or know how kind of like in your face and like, like the interview she would give in addition to like the music videos, et cetera. But I have to say, you know, Sabrina Carpenter is not somebody we tout as like an amazing vocalist. She sounded fucking fabulous on Like A Prayer. And also it was so suited to her. Like the cheekiness of the lyric really pops in that song when she sings it. When Madonna sings it, you hear the Catholic angst. You hear the priest she's defying from her childhood. But when Sabrina does it, it's pure kind of Marilyn Monroe-y, fun and bouncy. And then of course they did Vogue too, which every time you go to Coachella and like the word Marlena Dietrich is thrown at you, an act of defiance has occurred.

Speaker 2:
[08:29] You don't expect to hear that at Geese.

Speaker 1:
[08:30] No, right, exactly. Elsewhere at Coachella though, I have to say, you know who I am fucking stoked for? Slayyyter.

Speaker 2:
[08:37] That was the very first step that I saw.

Speaker 1:
[08:39] I am so stoked for this woman.

Speaker 2:
[08:40] Oh my God. So a moment is possible at Coachella that can truly launch or relaunch your career. I think we saw that two years ago, Sabrina and Chappell Rhone kind of became who they are at Coachella. I think this year we saw that with Slayyyter, who is kind of in this like pop dance rock mold, you know, but just has this incredible new album, Worst Girl in America, that had just come out right before her set, which essentially kicked off the entire weekend. And the vibes were incredible. Like everyone was screaming, shrieking, dancing, getting their life to it. And I've seen it burn up social media since. I think she's having sort of like a mini brat moment here.

Speaker 1:
[09:23] Yes. Well, also she's one of these people who exists kind of in a liminal space between people like Ava Max and Kim Petras. So she could almost get lost in the mix. And yet, as a live performer, first of all, it's pure explosiveness. As I noted on social media, and you agreed, she looks a lot like Karen Black. The actress from Five Easy Pieces and Dave the Locust, great 70s actress. But also the writing is so smart. It's actually a songwriter Lee album in addition to being this big, aggressive, very funny rock dance pop moment. And I'm just, I'm psyched for her jumping out ahead of these other names that felt all a little synonymous to her before. I like her last album, which was called Starfucker. It's called Starfucker. And the song, I love Hollywood on that. I love that too. But now it's like she's having that carving out her own, like I know her personality now. And there are so many people whose personality I still don't know. And I'm talking about Dua Lipa.

Speaker 2:
[10:24] But you know, I think, and I'm glad that you brought this up because Slayyyter's been at this for a while. Sabrina had as well, Sabrina had multiple albums until like she really broke. And Slayyyter's been around. I've been putting Slayyyter songs on my like playlist for a long time. But this album is the moment. And I think that people, especially on social media, are so eager to consign artists who aren't the biggest women in the world to the Kia Asylum. And I think we need to think about it more like the Kia Incubator. Because sometimes it takes a couple albums and you find yourself and everything hits and you're ready.

Speaker 1:
[11:00] This is like Candide, the optimism popping off here at the Kia Incubator. That's really beautiful.

Speaker 2:
[11:06] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[11:06] But also, no, it's sort of like, think of it as sort of the actor's studio for an upcoming pop star. Like go ahead, try things out. We'll see if you have the stuff to really pop as like a singular performer.

Speaker 2:
[11:17] Yeah, and honestly, I think that's part of the fun of Coachella. I mean, there's the people that you're excited to go see, but then there's also the people where you're like, oh, I've heard their songs, but I've never seen them live. You might be a little more skeptical of them. You know, Addison Rae was a good example of that. I mean, that is a very fun album. I think we can agree.

Speaker 1:
[11:31] Oh, quite.

Speaker 2:
[11:32] Some great bops. We've been dancing to that like since last year, Diet Pepsi Rules, you know, all of that.

Speaker 1:
[11:37] Yeah, Aquamarine, et cetera.

Speaker 2:
[11:38] But I do feel like people didn't quite know what to make of this first exposure to her that I think a lot of people were having. You know, she had a daytime slot on the main stage. People just went and checked out of curiosity. And I saw a lot of people on social media being like, oh, the crowd's not feeling her. The energy is not right. I don't know if that was a crowd problem or maybe sort of like points to this sort of this, this thing that people are rubbing up against with the Addison Rae project, which is, I think that she as a person projects a somewhat different vibe than her songs. Like, do I believe that Addison Rae is experiencing ennui on the French Riviera? No, I believe that she's having a great time at the Glendale Galleria.

Speaker 1:
[12:20] You know, so like me. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[12:22] When she is projecting mystery and talking about smoking cigarettes, but she's doing it with this like incredibly cheery mall girl aesthetic. I don't know that people quite knew what to make of it. And at one point, she was, you know, sort of getting the crowd to sing along to her song Money's Everything by being like, and when I point to you, you're going to sing money's everything. And I felt everyone rebel. Like it just felt like maybe there's some cheeky capitalist satire embedded into that song, but was she selling it? Like was she in on that joke? It felt like, like, like you're an actress in a Paul Verhoeven film. Like, do you know there are air quotes? Like you're Denise Richards in Starship Troopers. Like, do you know? I'm Elizabeth Berkley. Right, right.

Speaker 1:
[13:04] I think I'm doing something crazy, but I'm also topless. So what's happening?

Speaker 2:
[13:07] She's almost doing it so well that it's like you lose the air quotes. And maybe for like the just sort of general observer, they're not getting what this message is supposed to be.

Speaker 1:
[13:15] Yeah. Well, she's also kind of a hologram of a person.

Speaker 2:
[13:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:18] It's like, what is the person behind? But I'm also not really interested in what the person behind the music is because the artifice is so lovely and so well presented. And as I said, it's surprising that she is, though, like her own version of a live act. What offends me is when people say she's the second coming of someone like Brittany Spears. It's like, guys, let's get this. Let's don't get it twisted. Brittany Spears is like as A plus as a Laker girl can be. She is dancing to like the Jock Jam soundtrack, okay? That is not Edison Ray's vibe, which is much more kind of diaphanous and tingly. Yeah, yeah, languid. Yes, langor, which Dua Lipa is good at. I want to get back to a compliment for Dua Lipa. But I am interested in her future because I'm wondering how many different types of albums you can release in the mold of just like, I fluttered at you a little bit and I'm going away. Like how much there can be there.

Speaker 2:
[14:11] Should we fear like a MAGA controversy two years into her career too? That's the thing where it's like, if I don't know Addison as a person, I don't know what I don't want to know.

Speaker 1:
[14:21] Yeah. This is a word she would use to describe herself and it comes up in the other thing. I feel like she is such a slut for music that I feel like she can't possibly go MAGA, but I don't know. Yeah. By the way, did you-

Speaker 2:
[14:33] But she might date a guy.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2:
[14:35] We might be like, I don't like his social media posts.

Speaker 1:
[14:37] Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[14:39] I don't know. What can we expect from Addison as an artist, but also as a person? I feel like if we don't know yet, that's the thing that people are bumping up against.

Speaker 1:
[14:47] Again, I maybe brought this up last week too. I'm concerned about just calling her Addison though, because when you say Addison, I think Cate Walsh and Gray is an Addison.

Speaker 2:
[14:54] I like Addison, Gray is a name, it's great.

Speaker 1:
[14:55] And she should be a pop star. Yes. Now, did you see Karol G?

Speaker 2:
[14:59] I did see Karol G.

Speaker 1:
[15:00] What did you think?

Speaker 2:
[15:01] I mean, she gave everything.

Speaker 1:
[15:03] This woman is sick.

Speaker 2:
[15:04] Yes, in a good way.

Speaker 1:
[15:07] No, as in like-

Speaker 2:
[15:08] And we've got the fever.

Speaker 1:
[15:09] No, it's like, when Danielle Deadweiler was here, I said, you are not just a good actress, you are a sick actress, as in something happens and you're like, damn, like the actual power. And also like, it's such a rowdy good time, but there's something fucking serious about her, you know? Like you are getting the entertainment from this woman.

Speaker 2:
[15:25] There is a maxim that I say every year at Coachella, which is a female headliner will give you the show of their lives and a man will just show up.

Speaker 1:
[15:33] Right.

Speaker 2:
[15:34] And like, though I liked the Bieber set, I don't think you had a starker illustration of that than what Sabrina and Karol G were doing and what Bieber was doing. Again, I like the Bieber set. I think it was intimate, it was stripped down like his music. But Karol G's was so maximalist. Karol G was out there basically saying like, I'm going to give you a two hour long Super Bowl set.

Speaker 1:
[15:55] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[15:56] I'm going to spend everything I've got. I'm going to show you everything that I'm capable of. And if you didn't know me before, you sure know me now.

Speaker 1:
[16:03] And she stood out in front of this like fucking laser show of lights that was provided. And also it's like, it was also Flintstones Viva Rock Vegas.

Speaker 2:
[16:10] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[16:11] Love that. Also it's like, I love the actual set fit in with Coachella. Yeah. My problem with Sabrina is it was too Vegas residency as a look and that's different than Coachella. There should be something outdoorsy and like kind of primal about what we're getting to.

Speaker 2:
[16:25] Although it was very California. There were, there were details about the Sabrina set, you know, the sort of blinking lights of the homes and the faux Hollywood Hills that I didn't really appreciate until I saw it on the live stream weekend too. Whereas Karol G, that show could be seen from space.

Speaker 1:
[16:39] Do you have an ideal Coachella headliner you have not seen yet? Cause I have never gone yet. I think next year will be my first year.

Speaker 2:
[16:45] Well, Karol G actually made me think of the pervasive rumor that Shakira has been pitched as a headliner for a long time.

Speaker 1:
[16:50] When will her 4'10 ass get on that stage?

Speaker 2:
[16:53] There, there is, you know, I think when people do the Coachella mockups, they're often forgetting that there's usually a significant Latin artist who's usually on the come up. Obviously, Shakira has already come. But like, I know that she delivered a good show. I know that those, you know, that that music would be great. You know, I'm a rockist. If they bring back Radiohead, I'm going to get my life. I love that. But also, I mean, for me, so much of the fun of Coachella is those slots when I don't know anybody. Yeah. And my friend is just like, Oh, come to the Nina Giorgi show. And then she becomes, you know, a major artist in front of your eyes.

Speaker 1:
[17:32] I love that Shakira is always secretly three times more an interesting artist than you think. She's the only person who's ever collaborated with Will. I am, and I loved it.

Speaker 2:
[17:41] You didn't let Brittany out unscathed on that one.

Speaker 1:
[17:43] In my opinion, that was not Brittany.

Speaker 2:
[17:45] Yeah, well.

Speaker 1:
[17:45] That was a speaking spell, which is his favorite instrument, I think, you know. But I do actually like that song. I do. But no, I'd be thrilled to see Shakira. That'd be my same answer. Before I forget though, what did you think of Madonna's new single, which was released elsewhere? It's called I Feel So Free.

Speaker 2:
[18:02] I like the vibe of it. I'm curious to see what this is going to be. I'm generally skeptical of sequel albums, but I'm willing to give this a chance.

Speaker 1:
[18:10] Especially since a sequel is very not Madonna. She's very been obsessed with I Don't Repeat Myself, I'm Not a Jukebox of My Former Hits, and then the Celebration Tour came around. She's like, what if I made a lot of money?

Speaker 2:
[18:21] Right. Unless that sequel is Awesome Powers, The Spy Who Shagged Me.

Speaker 1:
[18:23] Yes. Oh my God. One of the great movie songs of all time.

Speaker 2:
[18:27] Truly Beautiful Stranger.

Speaker 1:
[18:28] And by the way, she's so funny in the video, like the acting was on. In fact, what is your favorite Madonna movie role?

Speaker 2:
[18:36] Oh man. I mean, honestly, it's probably Dick Tracy.

Speaker 1:
[18:39] Yeah. I'm not surprised I knew you would say that.

Speaker 3:
[18:41] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:41] I mean, she's really good. Like, I know that she has some limitations as a screen performer in movies. And she does not possess a screen performer.

Speaker 1:
[18:49] Nobody's ever said that before. What are you talking about?

Speaker 2:
[18:51] And I think that like the nature of the role like works really well.

Speaker 1:
[18:55] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:56] And her singing Sooner or Later is great and led to one of the best musical performances at the Oscars ever. One of the few times you can see that Madonna is nervous on stage and is transfixing.

Speaker 1:
[19:06] Well, again, Jeremy Irons is in the front row. I mean, who would it be nervous? I think my answer is League of Their Own because I think she's funny. And it's like, because I think the secret with Madonna is, she's great with a female director, Susan Sidelman, Penny Marshall. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[19:20] You put her in an ensemble and she just like figures out where she's supposed to be.

Speaker 1:
[19:24] Yeah, because I think she wanted to be ultimately a character actress. Have you seen Who's That Girl Recently? Mess, though at the same time, she's giving you a kind of impish, like a Judy Holliday equality that works almost. The material is not good and maybe she goes too hard, but there's something there.

Speaker 2:
[19:44] Well, I mean, for as generational and significant as Madonna is, so big that she only needs one name, she's really fun with other people. She's fun in her duet, she's fun in her stage moments with other people. She's fun as part of an ensemble, just like she was fun with Sabrina.

Speaker 1:
[20:02] Well, this episode, we've got plenty more gay things to talk about. That's why you're here. You know the assignment. First of all, we will get into the new movie Mother Mary, starring the fabulous Anne Hathaway and the fabulous Michaela Coel. Unusual film, but also pop-oriented, so it dovetails with our earlier conversation. Also, our interview this episode is, I mean, there's no other way to put this. Every once in a while, I get to interview one of my pop culture heroes. This woman is so fabulous, not just as an actress, but as a teacher of acting, and now she has a new book called Poetry Says It Better, Poems to Help You Wake Up. It's about how poetry has informed her life and career. Ellen Burstyn is here today.

Speaker 2:
[20:40] Truly, I feel like this knocks off one of the only major legends you haven't gotten to speak to. Is there anybody left?

Speaker 1:
[20:46] And by the way, it's actually a legend I would want to speak to. There's so many people where I'm like, please stay in the ether.

Speaker 2:
[20:50] Wait, actually, I'd rather know. Yeah, who do you now want to speak to?

Speaker 1:
[20:54] Oh, I mean, I say this as a fan. I do not need to meet Madonna, please.

Speaker 2:
[20:57] Really?

Speaker 1:
[20:57] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[20:58] So if Madonna was like, I actually want to come on Keep It, you'd say no.

Speaker 1:
[21:02] Honey, I'll make the time. I'm just saying, if I can keep the distance, I will. You know what I mean? It's going well, the distance I have between me and Madonna.

Speaker 2:
[21:08] Well, I mean, do you mean that in a you don't want to meet your heroes because they might disappoint you away because I feel like if Madonna was like a little bit of a bitch to you, it would actually be great.

Speaker 1:
[21:16] Oh, no, no, I would love that. I just from an interviewer perspective, I don't.

Speaker 2:
[21:20] Oh, sure.

Speaker 1:
[21:21] I think not that I would be a fanboy, but wheedling information out of her, I feel like she is in particular resistant to that. And I don't think I would get what I want.

Speaker 2:
[21:28] Yes, but you could have one of those cagey, iconic moments of Madonna refusing to answer the question.

Speaker 1:
[21:33] And also rejecting the premise of the question, which is even better.

Speaker 2:
[21:36] Yeah. I mean, sometimes like I can take it if you're going to be like cold and frosty to me. I was at a dinner party once and Isabelle Hubert was there and I was talking to other friends at the table about some romantic woe that I was experiencing. And I gradually noticed that she had started to lock into our conversation and wanted to be caught up. So I turned to Isabelle Hubert and I'm starting to like recount this story of this guy who is he into me, isn't he into me? Like I can't tell. And truly 10 seconds into summarizing it for her, she loses interest so palpably and turns away from me. And honestly, work.

Speaker 1:
[22:13] I would say, and ladies and gentlemen, the French.

Speaker 2:
[22:15] Yes. I mean, like, could I have wanted a better experience from Isabel Huper? That was the Huperi-ist.

Speaker 1:
[22:20] Do you know what was mind blowing? We interviewed her, Ira and I, a few years ago for, of course, Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris. And she was excellent. Great answers. I think we both actually, we worked our asses up. We got the questions together. Like Ira turned on his computer and looked things up for once and I nailed it.

Speaker 2:
[22:40] She loved it. Honestly, my favorite Ellen Burstyn credit is of recent vintage when she said that she did the Exorcist sequel for the money.

Speaker 1:
[22:49] By the way, if you look at her filmography, very little of that. She's in some kids movies here and there, like she's in the babysitter's club, for example. But for the most part, it was pure prestige the entire way. We didn't get to talk about The Last Picture Show, which is one of my all-time favorite movies, but we talked about many others and you better believe she was wearing a scarf. We will be back with more Keep It. Today's show is sponsored by strawberry.me. You don't have to be unhappy at work to want something more in your career. That's exactly where strawberry.me comes in. They'll match you with a professional career coach to help you figure out what you want, what's worth your time, and how to make your move without blowing up your life. Believe me, if there's something I don't know about in life, you know I'm going to seek help. I will take an ego hit when someone knows more than me, but I will still do it. Things like skincare. What do I know about it? Nothing, other than I have rosacea like I'm Mary Poppins when somebody needs to help me. Well, the same can go for your career. I would definitely get a coach for something as serious as figuring out my career. I actually have dreams of starring in a rom-com where the protagonist wants to get married and at the end they just marry their career, literally, at the altar in a surprise. I'm also not an actor. Why do I think I'm going to be in this anyway? So if you've been thinking, I should probably do something different, but haven't, start here. Go to strawberry.me slash keep it and find out if career coaching is right for you. That's strawberry.me slash keep it to get 50% off your first session. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. If you run a business or a side hustle, Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From consultations to events and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Get paid on time with professional on-brand invoices and online payments. Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. You can also fundraise directly on your website and grow your impact with built-in donation tools. Create a professional on-brand website that makes it easy to accept one-time or recurring contributions and engage supporters. With built-in email campaigns and marketing tools, you can connect with your community and inspire more people to support your cause. Squarespace makes it easy to showcase your expertise and engage clients with video content on your website. Upload and organize your videos, create stunning video libraries, and even monetize your content by adding a paywall. Perfect for online courses, exclusive tutorials, and premium workshops. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com/keep It! to save 10 percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com/keep It! Anne Hathaway stars alongside Michaela Coel in Mother Mary. By the way, not Anne Hathaway's first movie with mother in the title. A24's newest supernatural thriller written and directed by David Lowery. Hathaway plays a world famous pop star to Coel's renowned fashion designer who reluctantly agrees to design a last minute dress after a long period of estrangement. The story takes a haunting turn after a piercing cameo from FKA Twigs. Kyle, did this film have you doing a jig on a hardwood floor?

Speaker 2:
[26:13] Okay, so I was really into this film, but it is a film that goes in some crazy art filmy esoteric directions. The thing that always kept me invested in it is that boiled down, it's about a friendship breakup. To me, that is one of the most fascinating subjects and surprisingly underexplored when it comes to movies and television. Like even in real life, if you tell me, oh, Peter broke up with his girlfriend, I'm like, oh, that's too bad. I'm vaguely curious what happened. But it's usually like one of just a couple of things. Like maybe they grew apart or someone cheated or whatever. But if you tell me Peter broke up with his best friend, I'm leaning in, I want to know what happened there. It can be so many things and there's so much to mine. So watching these two women work out their differences, not just as former creative partners, but as people who were the most important friends in their life. To watch how the resentments have built and need to be released in this manner, I was hypnotized.

Speaker 1:
[27:15] I agree with that as a description of the movie, but I feel like what we watched was simply not pleasurable. I love the first 15 minutes of this movie when we established that Anne Hathaway is a pop star, and she's renowned and has had all these eras. Apparently, the director was inspired by Taylor Swift, which surprises me because it's so much more Lady Gaga.

Speaker 2:
[27:33] Okay, it's Lady Gaga down boots. First of all, you can take this from actual history. It feels specifically inspired by Lady Gaga's falling out with Laurieann Gibson, who used to be her creative director and essentially was along for the ride for that very first key part of Gaga's career. I almost wonder if David Lowry, the director, was citing Taylor Swift constantly to create a little bit of legal distance in case Laurieann was like, let me consult a lawyer. But it's so clearly Gaga, I mean down to the fact that it's Mother.

Speaker 1:
[28:10] I'm going to say Mother is just not Taylor Swift.

Speaker 2:
[28:14] She has these stage costumes where her face is covered in lace, the music is a little bit more icy, remote and dancey. I mean, just like the entire look is so outrageous, like the wigs and the head pieces, like you can hear more from the traitors clicking buy all as you watch this movie. So yes, the Taylor Swift of it all, I don't believe.

Speaker 1:
[28:36] Yeah, the pop star she is, her vibe is sort of like stained glass imagery. It's like literally Mary in various versions, various Renaissance paintings, et cetera, things like that. But I loved the establishment of these two characters and the drama they have together. She's this huge pop star. Michaela Coel is this downtrodden fashion designer. But other than that, I felt like neither of the characters evolved from that. Like literally the entire movie is Michaela Coel telling her in a condescending way, well, I guess you really need a dress. Well, I guess we have a long history. And by the way, Michaela Coel, great actress, and she's giving it her all in this, but she also has nowhere to go. And then the movie decides where they should go is a paranormal direction. And I do not care.

Speaker 2:
[29:22] Have you never been haunted by a piece of fabric?

Speaker 1:
[29:24] Not one fucking time. Oh, by the way, which reminds me, a little bit of it is the movie The Red Shoes, too, Powell and Pressburger. There's some of that going on, too. But didn't you think half the fucking imagery in this movie was like 824 AI slop? Like, oh, here we are in a fucking Suspiria.

Speaker 2:
[29:39] No, I look, I understand your complaint. And I do feel like even even even having loved this film, there does come a point where you're like, you have absolutely explored this resentment and this friendship break up from every angle. So you better be bringing this in for a landing. But I just thought along the way, there were so many incredible moments and scenes. And even if sometimes you're checking out of a monologue, there will be something that makes you check back in, whether it's a line delivery, or whether that's the really amazing sequence of Anne's pop star perpetually walking on to a stage and then cutting to her walking off and then she walks on and walks off.

Speaker 1:
[30:16] That was the one fabulous part of the movie in the latter half of the movie.

Speaker 2:
[30:20] There's a lot of creative visual imagery. David Lowry, the director, has also done a ghost story. He did The Green Knight. These are films that aren't going to be for everybody because they're weird.

Speaker 1:
[30:32] Yeah. My favorite movie of his is Pete's Dragon. Because I have a disease where I keep up on Wes Bentley. I find him to be the hottest straight man.

Speaker 2:
[30:39] But I don't know. It worked for me a little bit more. I think part of that is because I find these two women to be such great actors that they can mine a lot from it. Michaela Coel, I'm so thrilled to see her doing anything. She's also in the Christopher's, which came out in limited release I think this weekend. Anne Hathaway, this is kicking off an entire year of Anne. I think it's a really intriguing first performance to see from her. Did you buy her as this kind of pop song? Yes.

Speaker 1:
[31:07] My favorite part of the movie is actually just her performing the pop songs.

Speaker 2:
[31:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:10] Because it's definitely her. This sounds like I'm being Randy Jackson talking about somebody on American Idol. She's definitely having fun up there. But it also actually worked. She looks fabulous. She's a great singer.

Speaker 2:
[31:22] The music is real. It's from Charlie XAX and Jack Antonoff, like people who know what they're doing. I bought her as this sort of glacial, remote pop diva who would inspire adoration. I bought her a little bit less when we see her in the backstage moments and she's a little bit more like real person, kind, beseeching because I just don't believe that woman would be that way.

Speaker 1:
[31:46] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[31:47] I think she would be more sort of curt and officious and like go get that done.

Speaker 1:
[31:51] Yeah, all business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think honestly this movie would have been better if it just weren't entirely about their relationship. If there were two more people in her coterie that she could have corresponded with because there wasn't enough in the back and forth between her. In a costume designer, I'm sorry, it's just like I want there to be two-hander movies, but this just wasn't it.

Speaker 2:
[32:10] It's very claustrophobic and we do see a couple other characters. But Louis, I know that you must have deep down liked the fact that this is a movie where there are no male speaking roles.

Speaker 1:
[32:18] Oh, no. I could tell as it was going on, I was like, that's what this guy is doing. But then I realized this is still a guy who fucking wrote this because I feel like his version of dimensionality is still a very straight male point of view. Like, here's the, she's a beautiful pop star. She has an immaculate image, but she's so sad. Like, it's just like, it's not that interesting.

Speaker 2:
[32:38] I do feel that at least David Lowry likes pop music more than I think some of the other men who've tackled this. Like, Brady Corbet with Vox Lux where Natalie Portman is playing a pop star.

Speaker 1:
[32:51] That movie is really about pop music is a sign of the apocalypse or something.

Speaker 2:
[32:55] Yeah, you can tell that he condescends to people who actually deign to enjoy pop music. Like, he's like, I would never but here have this slop. And A Star Is Born, the one with B Coupe and Lady Gaga, which I love.

Speaker 1:
[33:10] Okay, sorry. Took me back. I gagged.

Speaker 2:
[33:12] B Coupe and Gaga. I think that is obviously one of the most plausible portrayals of a pop star because you have an actual pop star doing it. Certainly, by the time Ali, her character becomes like a pop star who's on SNL, you're supposed to be a little struck in the solar plexus by how shallow her songs have become, no pun intended. However, they're still bops. And so even though Bradley Cooper-

Speaker 1:
[33:41] Why did you do that to me is fucking good.

Speaker 2:
[33:43] Yes, hair, body, face.

Speaker 1:
[33:44] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[33:44] Put it on. Please, yes. Let's go to commercial on hair, body, face. But I know that Bradley Cooper is wanting us to think, well, these songs are not as resonant as what she was singing earlier, but they're still fun and he still got like Diane Warren and other people to write things that are catchy and hooky. So I don't think he hates pop music to that degree. David Lowry, I think he vibes with this. I think he would want Mother Mary to headline Coachella and I did too.

Speaker 1:
[34:13] Yeah. By the way, they didn't have to ask Diane Warren to contribute. She was already in Gaga's driveway screaming. It was like a say anything situation. No, I really do like the music in this. I would say it's not as good as Charlie XCX's contributions to the Wuthering Heights soundtrack which is definitely the best thing about that movie.

Speaker 2:
[34:29] I 100% agree. I am still listening to that album and I almost forget that it comes from a movie at this point. I didn't remember that the movie even existed the last few weeks until Pedro Almodovar brought it up to take some random strays at Jacob Elordi.

Speaker 1:
[34:43] That was also a very interesting quote because it could have been he wasn't really insulting him, more saying like, it felt like it could have gone both ways. He was kind of calling him both a really talented person and yet what he expresses in these movies isn't right. Mixed up quote to me.

Speaker 2:
[34:59] Elmodovar is basically saying, is Jacob Elordi good or just tall? And I think we're all trying to figure it out. He was good in Frankenstein, but he also like everything else about Frankenstein is so supersized that somebody giving us somewhat smaller, quieter performance is going to be the sort of rock you cling to.

Speaker 1:
[35:16] I feel like though the Keep It listeners are already bracing themselves for that. They know what I'm going to say. I'm sorry. He was that bad bitch in Priscilla. That was a fucking Elvis, I believed.

Speaker 2:
[35:25] As opposed to Austin Butler.

Speaker 1:
[35:28] I thought that movie totally sucked.

Speaker 2:
[35:29] I couldn't stand it.

Speaker 1:
[35:31] Also, he just doesn't look like fucking Elvis for one second. I'm sorry, looks do matter in every aspect of life. Sorry.

Speaker 2:
[35:37] No, I mean, I'm still much like Elmadova trying to figure out who Jacob Bellordi is. I don't know. Maybe he's the movie version of Addison Rae.

Speaker 1:
[35:45] Well, okay.

Speaker 2:
[35:46] Where we're like, you know.

Speaker 1:
[35:47] They will end up together, so be careful.

Speaker 2:
[35:49] I can see it. I can see them dating. That would be something of a power couple.

Speaker 1:
[35:54] I know the queens think Rosamund Pike was the best part of Saltburn. No, baby, he was the best part of Saltburn.

Speaker 2:
[35:58] Look, he's good in Saltburn and he's well used in it. And honestly, I think he is good in Wuthering Heights, although I share Elmadova's confusion where you wonder, is he good in this or is the rest of the movie so misguided and bad that you're just clinging to somebody who seems like a solid presence?

Speaker 1:
[36:16] No, by the way, that's how people win Oscars. I mean, there's so many movies where it's like, was that person good? Are we relieved to see them after everybody else is so fucking mid? I'm so sorry, this is the case with Regina King and If Beale Street Could Talk.

Speaker 2:
[36:27] Oh man, I can't go there with you, but enjoy walking onto that plane.

Speaker 1:
[36:31] And then I'm like, oh my god, the narration in this movie is so bad. Anyway.

Speaker 2:
[36:35] Oh, I love that movie.

Speaker 1:
[36:36] Do you really?

Speaker 2:
[36:36] I really do.

Speaker 1:
[36:38] Oh my god, the music, which was like-

Speaker 2:
[36:39] Love that music!

Speaker 1:
[36:40] The music was cold soup. The music was cold soup. If Beale Street Could Serve soup plantation.

Speaker 2:
[36:46] What I love when we disagree, although I know that we are in total agreement when it comes to Anne Hathaway. I mean, we've spent the last decade and a half debating the backlash and the backlash to the backlash about Anne and-

Speaker 1:
[37:00] And I have a new answer. I have a new answer.

Speaker 2:
[37:01] This is what has me fearful because she is about to be seen in many movies. You know, there's not just Mother Mary, but we have Devil Wears Product 2, we have The Odyssey, we have the one where Ewan McGregor and their family get transported to the era of dinosaurs. So we're going to see a lot of Anne. And the last time we saw a lot of Anne, the public just tore her to shreds.

Speaker 1:
[37:23] I feel like when the public tore her to shreds, it was really about the award circuit. And you know what's interesting about Anne? We think of her as a prestigious actress. And of course she has wonderful actress, twice Oscar nominated. She has not been on an awards track since then. Like she's not been nominated for a fucking thing. And she's had some interesting projects, you know, like Colossal and you know, whatever she's up to, she's a great actress. The backlash though, I think people want to pretend she said she was annoying, that she was too much of a theater kid. I'm sorry. It was the haircut. People did not want to accept her with short hair. And I honestly believe that became the quote, annoying thing about her.

Speaker 2:
[37:58] They were like, we already have white Michelle Williams.

Speaker 1:
[38:00] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[38:00] Can't make space for this picture.

Speaker 1:
[38:02] And who's like an intense fan of Michelle Williams? And yet, we're stuck with Anne Hathaway now, who we were big fans of and now you have short hair. I'm sorry, straight men were behind this the whole time.

Speaker 2:
[38:11] Do you think, is this going to curse Emma Stone, who's still growing out from her Bougogne cut?

Speaker 1:
[38:16] Mm, yes, it could potentially.

Speaker 2:
[38:18] Uh-oh, watch out, Emma.

Speaker 1:
[38:19] But also, something about Emma is so self-deprecating that I feel like it's hard for people, I can't picture people mad at her, namely straight men. When I say people, I mean straight men.

Speaker 2:
[38:29] I do feel like the theater kid aspect has something to do with it and I did think about it during those backstage moments in Mother Mary where I'm like, you want to be liked a little too much and I'd rather you have the character not want to be liked. There's kind of a fun for song that happens when Anne Hathaway doesn't want to be liked or is at least playing that and I think that there was just an eagerness to please that, you know, maybe the general public didn't know what to do with when they kept getting it. It's like, you know, there's there's a queen on every season of Drag Race that's giving that energy to RuPaul and Ru simply rejects it.

Speaker 1:
[39:05] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[39:05] You know, and I think that Anne for a time, that's what the public was doing to her.

Speaker 1:
[39:09] I would say this happened again recently with Jesse Buckley, but it felt like the comments were coming from people who were not like my friends. I personally didn't want her to win that Oscar, but great actress, no problem with her, can't think of one thing she said that was upsetting. People pretended like she was the only fixture this awards season who really, really won everything. It's like, how are you supposed to give that speech 70 times and not be a little repetitive or sound a little, I don't know about under grateful, but a little prepared?

Speaker 2:
[39:36] Yeah. I mean, you and I are well versed in hyper analysis of famous women and what they do. But I think that some people-

Speaker 1:
[39:43] And what it means.

Speaker 2:
[39:44] Yeah. Well, some people prefer to use those, like little details as sort of like cudgels.

Speaker 1:
[39:48] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[39:48] But I am curious because I do feel like after that initial backlash to Anne Hathaway way back when, there was maybe in the Buzzfeed era, this idea of we were too harsh on Anne Hathaway. So have we learned our lesson from that? Because we are back in a very harsh time on social media. Yeah. Where people pick on all sorts of random things. So I don't know. Have we learned our lesson, or are we in for round two of people picking on Anne Hathaway?

Speaker 1:
[40:19] Well, I think it all depends on The Devil Wears Prada too, which by the way, like any uninspired sequel, I've not seen the movie, I know nothing about it. If it is uninspired, could just slip into the ether and we totally forget about it and it's not the Anne Hathaway press crush of our dreams. But at the same time, if it's amazing, I think it can only endear us to her because that's exactly what I think even detractors want from Anne Hathaway, which is to be fun rom-com lead.

Speaker 2:
[40:43] Well, and also at the same time.

Speaker 1:
[40:44] Have you seen it?

Speaker 2:
[40:45] No, I'm seeing it next week.

Speaker 1:
[40:46] Oh, okay, got it.

Speaker 2:
[40:47] I remember that during the first Devil Wears Prada press run, Meryl was talking about how the movie was so fun to shoot because something about Anne's character made her so fun to pick on, you know, on screen. That she had this bright, sprightly energy and Meryl loved to pick at it. And I actually thought about that when I was watching Mother Mary because so much of the movie is Michaela Coel hurling insults at Anne Hathaway who must take it. And I, you know, I'm not saying that Anne should like, you know, flog herself for our sins in every project, but if there's multiple projects where people are just insulting poor old Anne Hathaway and she's like, you know, the eyes are getting wider, but she's plucky and determined to withstand it anyway, maybe that is actually the mode where people want to see her.

Speaker 1:
[41:32] And I hope this means she gets enough to do in the Double Wars product because in Mother Mary, she was stuck between a sniffle and a sob, the entire film, kind of Les Mis style, close up on her face, like Michaela reads her to filth.

Speaker 2:
[41:47] Give her some credit, she had to play that role for two hours with wet hair.

Speaker 1:
[41:50] Yes. Oh my God, it's the wettest movie. By the way, the drama of this movie is no one will turn on a light. We are in a warehouse and it's dark and it's like Ikea size. Why does she live there? Why does Michaela Coel live in this weird, like Passion of the Christ barn?

Speaker 2:
[42:05] To be fair, it's Europe and no one knows how to turn on a light there.

Speaker 1:
[42:08] Yeah, it's the fucking darkest movie. What would you say is your favorite Anne Hathaway project?

Speaker 2:
[42:14] Ooh, what is my favorite Anne Hathaway project?

Speaker 1:
[42:18] Ooh, I know what I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2:
[42:19] Well, I've talked about this on the show before, but I really think that Anne is the most underrated person in Brokeback Mountain.

Speaker 1:
[42:27] Brokeback Mountain, uh-huh, yes. First of all, the outfits, second of all, the hair, third of all, holding a phone like this.

Speaker 2:
[42:33] Yes, and she's so subtle at the end, while almost, almost, almost being maximal. I love that thing where you can be subtle within like a really big gesture. And she's wearing the most outrageous wigs, again, in that movie, and she managed to find something that feels very small. And the sort of gap between big and small can be really thrilling. As far as lead performances of Anne's go, do you have one?

Speaker 1:
[42:59] I mean, I think I would have to say, Anne Hathaway, Michelle getting married, which seems so cliched because she got the best actress nomination for it. And also, I want to say that she triumphed in that movie over the most obvious choice for a haircut for that character. It's like she has hair like she's been rained on, and it's like a flat sheet, looks like privacy glass, and yet still jagged in a 90s alternative way. You can tell she's the troubled character. It's exactly the hair that Jennifer Jason Lee would have in a 90s movie.

Speaker 2:
[43:25] She's got a lot going on this year, as we just said, but Anne was actually also supposed to be the female lead of Beef Season 2. It was going to be her and Jake Gyllenhaal as the older couple. They were the ones originally attached.

Speaker 1:
[43:37] More of the other drugs, from Love and Other Drugs.

Speaker 2:
[43:38] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[43:39] Yes, and Brokeback also. So you're saying she was going to play the Carrie Mulligan character. I'm excited to watch that. Carrie Mulligan is another one of those people like Michelle Williams, where there are movies I love her in, and yet I guess I'm not really an intense fan. I can't really answer why.

Speaker 2:
[43:56] I thought you were going to blame the pixie cut again.

Speaker 1:
[43:58] Oh, no. She looks fantastic. I love an education.

Speaker 2:
[44:02] I love that movie. When Carrie Mulligan has long hair in a movie, I'm like, God, she's a talented actress. What a stretch.

Speaker 1:
[44:10] Yeah. We call this Jennifer Connelly syndrome. Long pretty hair, I meant. Anyway, Mother Mary not for, you would say you would give it a thumbs up though?

Speaker 2:
[44:18] Yes, but in that conditional way where it has to be recommended to the right person. My mom is not going to like this movie.

Speaker 1:
[44:25] I'm going to go ahead and play it safe and say, I don't recommend it to anybody, that the songs are great and Anne looks fabulous. Michaela is good and is giving nothing to do.

Speaker 2:
[44:32] Look, if you like those David Lowry movies that we named and you like pop stars, and if you're one of those people who defends Vox Lux, this is a better version of that, I think.

Speaker 1:
[44:42] Something about Vox Lux make me so violently angry. Using just the school shooting, which is very vivid as this jumping off point for this dower movie about pop music. What's the takeaway? Yeah, upsetting. I will give David Lowry credit, his movies have nothing to do with each other. What? You're the ain't them body saints guy, and then you're also this guy, and then Pete's dragon. It's like Mike Nichols. Just like you're interested in everything, I guess.

Speaker 2:
[45:08] Yeah. I like when a straight man gets a little fruity with it. Yeah. Makes a movie about women where they're just mean and gossipy, and it's not about getting them naked all the time.

Speaker 1:
[45:18] No. It's upsetting that David Fincher directed the Vogue and Express Yourself videos. How did he do that using heterosexuality?

Speaker 2:
[45:24] David Fincher made me gay and is allegedly straight.

Speaker 1:
[45:27] I don't like it, and I love that movie, The Killer with Michael Fassbender and Tilda Swinton.

Speaker 2:
[45:32] That's how you know that Louis is gay if you had any doubt that he led with Tilda Swinton being the lead.

Speaker 1:
[45:37] Oh, yeah. Right. Oh, yeah. And Michael Fassbender.

Speaker 2:
[45:39] And Michael Fassbender.

Speaker 1:
[45:39] Whatever. All right. What did you think of Mother Mary or did you think anything at all? I was so thrilled to get out of the theater, but I love going to Burbank. We'll be right back with more Key, but first, spring is all about fresh starts, new t-shirts and terrifying new reasons to call your reps. The Crooked Store's Call Congress line has been a bestseller since it launched years ago, and now it's available in new spring colors like butter yellow, not my color, and chocolate brown. That's a little better. Plus, all the pieces got a quality upgrade so your favorites can stay in rotation for even longer. Calling your reps has never been more important. So why not make spreading the word as easy as throwing on a comfy t-shirt, crew neck or hat? Head to crooked.com/store to shop. We'll be right back with The Goat, Ellen Burstyn. Keep It! is brought to you by Koyuchi. I'm so excited to tell you about our sponsor, Koyuchi, especially considering April is Earth Month. Koyuchi is in a league of its own when it comes to bedding, bath and home products. And their organic satin and flannel sheet sets are the key to more comfortable, healthier sleep year round. To celebrate Earth Month, I'm going all natural when it comes to my bedding. Koyuchi uses all natural organic materials and partners with fair trade factories. So you're not just buying beautiful bedding, you're supporting a more responsible way of making things. All Koyuchi sheets are made of natural fibers certified to be free of toxins and harmful chemicals that could seep into your skin, and they're so soft and gentle on your skin too. You can sleep well and safely with Koyuchi. Whether it's the subtle sheen of their satin or the velvety brush cotton flannel, plus vintage patterns, peaceful botanicals and calming hues bring the natural world right into your home. With every wash, these sheets just get softer and softer, no pilling or tearing. They're crafted to last. If you want healthy organic luxury bedding that lasts a lifetime, you need Koyuchi. Get 15% off your first order when you visit koyuchi.com/keep it. That's koyuchi.com/keep it to get 15% off. coyuchi.com/keep it. Keep It is brought to you by Rocket Money. So I'm aspiring to live my bored heiress lifestyle, which means I have to get control of my finances and save up like now. This is the kind of thing that's really hard to figure out on your own. So that's why I have Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. With so many subscriptions and recurring monthly charges out there, Rocket Money tracks everything and gives you the ability to cancel within the app with just a few taps, saving time and avoiding charges. Rocket Money also categorizes your spending so you can easily see whether your purchases are where they need to be and adjust throughout the month and year. They also offer customizable categories and tags to reveal spending patterns and add context. Looking to save up for a big purchase? Rocket Money helps you set budget goals and get personalized insights and reports to make sure you stay on track for those long-term plans. You can also receive real-time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, and low balances. With their easy-to-read interface, Rocket Money consolidates checking, savings, loans, and investments into a single dashboard to give users a clear view of their financial picture. Even better, you're able to automate your savings that grow towards goals with adjustable amounts and frequency. It's a set it and forget it approach, which is great, so I can focus on remembering who won Best Supporting Actress in 1988. I'm kidding, it's Gina Davis. We all know that. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/keepitpod. That's rocketmoney.com/keepitpod. rocketmoney.com/keepitpod. It is an honor to welcome my next guest, who is a pillar of Hollywood. She is, get ready, a Tony, Golden Globe, Emmy and Academy Award-winning actress, whose career spans decades of countless iconic roles on stage and screen, including films such as The Exorcist, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Same Time Next Year, Requiem for a Dream, and The Ultimate Resurrection, and so much more. Her new book, Poetry Says It Better, Poems to Help You Wake Up, explores the power and beauty of her favorite poetry. Please welcome the great, the almighty, the heroic Ellen Burstyn. Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[49:59] Hardly, but okay. I'll accept it.

Speaker 1:
[50:02] Okay, good. It's been given, unfortunately. It can't be taken back. Ellen, this book is, first of all, just so unusual and yet also so straightforward. It's you talking about your favorite poems. You put the poems in the book for us to read. How did you come to even conceive of putting this together?

Speaker 3:
[50:23] It happened because I was working up with my trainer at the time, and I had the impulse to recite a poem to her. I said, do you read poetry? She went, no, like that. I didn't recite the poem to her. Then we went upstairs where she gave me a massage. I read her a Mary Oliver poem, and she said, oh, well, that's not sappy. I thought, sappy? Wow. That's what she thinks of poetry. That stayed in my head. How many people are there who aren't exposed to the joy of poetry, like I had been most of my life? Then my agent said to me, you're a poetry lover, aren't you? I said, yes. He said, why don't you write a book about poetry? Well, I'd already written one, Poetry and My Photographs, which wasn't really the right idea. But when he said that, I said, you know what? I want to write a book about poetry for people who don't know poetry. My friends, most of my close friends, they're poetry lovers. But she made me realize that some people just don't know about poetry. So I decided to write the book for them.

Speaker 1:
[51:57] It's such a fascinating and a breeze of a read. I mean, like really the poem's just like, you've taken the message and you move right along. And it also tells us a lot of biographical information about you too. I think something else that's fascinating about you is you like to memorize poems. Like you just have the poems on you at all times. And then also physically, like you carry around poetry with you in these poetry packets as they're described here. What is the joy of... Oh, here's one right in front of us.

Speaker 3:
[52:26] That's my poetry pack. And it's a little overstuffed now, so I can't get it open so easily. And then I keep all the poems inside, see?

Speaker 1:
[52:38] Look, these are color-coded seemingly, yes?

Speaker 3:
[52:40] Yes. So the index tells me what color each poem is. So I can just look for the color.

Speaker 1:
[52:48] It is... What I'm watching right now, if you... You can watch this on YouTube, obviously, but if you're listening to us right now, what I just saw was shocking. Ellen just had an entire card catalog of poems and whipped them out in what looked like a billfold. I just want to be clear that that's what just happened. But what is the value of memorizing poems? It seems like, first of all, even among actors, you have a fabulous memory.

Speaker 3:
[53:08] Well, I did. I wouldn't claim to have a fabulous memory anymore. Not at 93. No. One doesn't have a fabulous memory then.

Speaker 1:
[53:17] But what is the pleasure of just memorizing poetry?

Speaker 3:
[53:21] Because then I carry it with me at all times. I walk in the park a lot. Very often, I will see something in the park and it'll just spark a line from a poem, and then I recite the poem to myself, and it's a deep pleasure that I carry inside me.

Speaker 1:
[53:44] Do you think this is an unusual hobby to have among actors? Do you know other actors who also value poetry as much as you do?

Speaker 3:
[53:54] I'm not sure. My close friends are all poetry lovers. I remember one time being in the, I saw the great English actor, John Gilgud in a play in London, and I went backstage and I was in his dressing room, and we got into a conversation about memory, and he said, well, memory is a muscle that must be exercised every day. He said, I memorized something every day. If I'm not working on a role, I memorize a poem, and then he added, or at the very least, a column of newspaper print. So there's somebody who is memorizing poems. I don't know how many do. I have been surprised a little bit to learn that some of my best friends are deep poetry lovers that I didn't know. I mean, since I've written the book, I've found out, oh, I didn't know you're a poetry lover. So it's not so unusual.

Speaker 1:
[55:07] First of all, your John Gielgud impression was spot on. I didn't know you had that in you. That was lovely, first of all. I'm going to say this also harkens back to a time when these classical stage actors were like English majors. It feels like it's almost from another era, just like people who would know Shakespeare off the top of their head and be as involved in discussing the text as they are acting it.

Speaker 3:
[55:30] Well, I must say it's very possible to think of me as from another era. At this age, I could be thought of that way.

Speaker 1:
[55:40] But also you have such a long history of teaching acting, and I feel like this book dovetails with your love of teaching, because you really come away from this book feeling like you learned something. And I was wondering if you could just talk about getting into teaching acting, because you were obviously part of the very hallowed actor studio, and were taught under Lee Strasberg, long thought to be the greatest acting teacher of the 20th century.

Speaker 3:
[56:04] He was the greatest acting teacher in the 20th century. I have no doubt about that. And those of us who were lucky enough to be exposed to him, and what he knew, and how he could transmit it, were changed. Our lives were changed. There's the before Lee Strasberg, and the after Lee Strasberg. So I felt he started me teaching. He's the one that asked me to moderate the sessions. And at the Actors Studio, we have acting sessions on Tuesday and Friday. So after I won an Oscar, he asked me to start taking the Tuesday sessions and moderating those while he did Fridays. And then when he died, I took over the Fridays also. His teaching was so life-changing to me and so important I wouldn't feel right about myself if I didn't try and share it as best I could. So that's my kind of giving back for all I received from him.

Speaker 1:
[57:27] Are there any moments in your acting past that you're surprised you reference as a teacher a lot? That when you're moderating these sessions, you come back to a specific moment on set of a movie or on set of a play again and again and again that helps new actors?

Speaker 3:
[57:42] Well, I don't know about again and again and again, but I do when I'm looking at an actor's work, sometime remember a moment where something occurred to me that is helpful for the actor to be exposed to also. But teaching, I'm sure all teachers will agree, inspiration is very much a part of it. In the moment, finding just the right approach to speak to a particular person, because not everybody can hear the same openness, let's say, and need to be spoken to differently.

Speaker 1:
[58:34] Are there any particular movie scenes in history or movies you watch that fill you with particular pride in the actor studio? I mean, so many of the greatest movies are filled with alumni of the studio. I was just watching a scene from In the Heat of the Night with Sidney Poitier and Lee Grant, which is one of the great acting scenes in that movie, obviously a best picture winner. And you can just see that these are some trained professionals like working it, like the emotions are right, so palpable. It could, they could only be professionals. I was wondering if there are any movies like that that you watch and think that's definitely the actor studio at work.

Speaker 3:
[59:12] Almost everything Marlon Brando ever did. And of course his teacher wasn't so much Lee Strasburg as Stella Adler, but the work is similar. They came from the same source, the group theater. So Brando's acting, I think, is a perfect example of the work I was schooled in. Called method acting. And what I've been seeing in the newspaper where people are called method actors, and they're just not, drives me nuts. Because, you know, I say if, if what they're saying is method acting, that it's got to be real, and therefore they go out and do something absurd, that's real, how does anybody ever play Medea? Their children would be in jeopardy. You know, it's the phrase of Lee Strasburg's that I, I love that describes what method acting is, is training the senses to respond to imaginary stimuli. So it's training the senses to believe that what the imaginary story is, is true. Having the senses react, but it's not going out and doing the same thing that the character does, for God's sakes. So there's a lot of misinformation about method acting.

Speaker 1:
[60:47] Well, the interesting thing about it is, so it makes you be truthful, as in find reality, and yet also it feels like you have to have a certain amount of vulnerability as that like give something up of yourself to make it work. And so looking back at your movies, which by the way, the disparate roles, like it's crazy your range as an actor. I was wondering if there are any roles in particular for you that feel vulnerable in retrospect, like teach the audience something about you, because I could just as well be seeing someone who's totally not like you or someone who is totally like you when I'm watching an Ellen Burstyn movie.

Speaker 3:
[61:23] Well, I would say that Alice doesn't live here anymore. It's very close to me. I mean, I have a son and the relationship of Alice and her son is really a reflection of my relationship with my son. That's the one that is most like me, I think. Requiem for a Dream probably is the one least like me.

Speaker 1:
[61:55] Thank God.

Speaker 3:
[61:59] Absolutely. Yes, that poor soul. She had a rough way to go.

Speaker 1:
[62:08] I imagine that movie took a lot of preparation, because some of the scenes in that movie are namely your scenes, but also many others are so bracing. As in to bring yourself to give that level of pain on the screen, I don't know what you're pulling from, but I imagine it took some time.

Speaker 3:
[62:25] You know, that kind of role, which is so different from who the actor is, I don't know. It's like, for no reason that I can give you, the image that just came to mind was diving into the ocean to find a lost wedding ring. That's the image that just came to mind when I started to say what it was like. It's that deep and mysterious and involves deep diving. That's all I can say. Deep diving and luck that you find the ring.

Speaker 1:
[63:23] I also want to say that you recently gave a performance I thought was so fabulous in pieces of a woman with Vanessa Kirby. I just saw this scene pop up, I believe on the Academy's Instagram or something, but you were working with her. This is a movie about a woman who loses her child after a incredible first scene of this movie. And basically the rest of the movie is her navigating what she's doing with her life. But you guys have this fight and you play her mother. And it is just as urgent as any other scene you've done in your career. I was wondering what it was like filming that because Vanessa is also such a powerhouse in that scene. It's so awesome seeing this two-handed scene where both people are so powerful.

Speaker 3:
[64:03] Well, you know, when you work with an actor who's powerful, it's like, okay, I don't know if this is an accurate description, but what came to mind was a chess player's game being upped by playing with an equally proficient chess player. So because the reality becomes more, you know, sometimes you're working with someone and they respond in a way and you go, oh, no, honey, that doesn't seem real to me. And but with Vanessa, you're just in it. You know, you're in the story, in those characters, and you're playing together. You know, you're really playing together. So she's a wonderful actress, and it was just great working with her.

Speaker 1:
[65:04] I also have to bring up the movie Resurrection, which is, you know, this, now this diamond in the rough of your career, but it was a fabulous Oscar nomination at the time. One of the few paranormal movies that is also extremely emotional, it's this woman who survives this near-death moment. She's actually dead for a second, and then comes back and finds she has healing powers. Now, if I am an actor reading that script, I realize the power of this movie hinges on the audience believing I have actual powers, which you know, people don't. So, in other words, the movie only works if you work. Taking on a script like that, are you really intimidated or do you just know, you know what, I'm going to will it into being and people will believe it?

Speaker 3:
[65:49] First of all, people do have healing powers. I'll give you an example. I had a healer on set with me every day guiding me. And one day, we were in the makeup room in the morning. And the makeup man said to me, I'm going to do your makeup, then I have to leave and somebody else is going to have to cover for me on the set. I've got a horrendous toothache and I've got to get to a dentist. I'm in terrible pain. And my healer friend was standing there. She said, it's not your tooth, it's your ear. He said, what? She said, you have an ear infection. I can help you with that. And she put her hands back here at his ear. And then after, I don't know, five minutes maybe, I'm not sure how long, he went, oh, I just felt it drop. She said, yeah, you'll be okay now. Okay, so the thing is that people can do that. And as a matter of fact, the way that picture came about is somebody sent me a script, the producers, I was in Greece at the time, sent me a script about a woman who goes to Jerusalem and her hands start bleeding and she finds that she's the reincarnated Jesus. And I turned it down. And they called me and said, why are you turning it down? We want you to do it. And I said, because there are actual people who can heal and you're just you're making up a story that doesn't make any sense. So I then talked to them. I said, why don't you tell a story about a woman who's just a normal woman who maybe hasn't? And I roughed in the story and they said, OK. They called me back and said, we like your script better than our script. Can we start over with a new writer and write your script? And I said, yes. So that's what they did. Now, unfortunately, when the studio released the movie, they released it as a science fiction film. That's what they're still calling it, which absolutely kills it. Because it's not a very good science fiction film. As a film about a very rare talent that some people have, then it's an interesting story. So unfortunately, although I was nominated for an Oscar, the studio had no belief in the film and they pretty much, it opened on 57th Street in New York with no ad in the paper. So it was killed.

Speaker 1:
[68:47] I will say though, there's just no movie like it. If you want to watch a movie like that, you can only watch Resurrection. It's its own genre basically.

Speaker 3:
[68:55] Yeah. I always say when somebody tells me their favorite movie of mine is Resurrection, I always say, then I know you're a very special person.

Speaker 1:
[69:05] Okay. Well, best compliment of my day for sure. My last question for you is, obviously you love stage acting. I was wondering if you had seen much stage acting recently that had resonated with you.

Speaker 3:
[69:18] Becky Shaw. It's a wonderful play. It's open right now. My granddaughter is part of the stage management crew. She's a second assistant stage manager. Becky Shaw. It's a wonderful, wonderful play. Writing, acting, sets, everything.

Speaker 1:
[69:38] Classic. Fabulous. Ellen, thank you so much for talking to me today. I love the book. By the way, your memoir from the 2000s is also fabulous. I'm just a big fan of your writing in general.

Speaker 3:
[69:49] Thank you so much. I love talking to you.

Speaker 1:
[69:52] What a pleasure. I will keep it with me. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3:
[69:55] Okay. Bye-bye.

Speaker 1:
[70:10] Keep It! is brought to you by iRestore. I've been using iRestore's Illumina Face Mask, and let me tell you, all signs point to Nicole Kidman level of glass-like shimmer. I'm on my way to becoming a podcast host of a certain age, and I'm determined to do so without fine lines and dullness. And get this, iRestore's anniversary sale is running through April 27th, so it's honestly the perfect time to upgrade your hair and skincare routine. iRestore has been leading the way in red light therapy for over two decades, helping shape the category of clinically-backed devices trusted by over 500,000 customers worldwide. So this sale is a celebration of the community that has grown alongside them. To celebrate the milestone, iRestore is highlighting some of their most advanced devices designed to support both hair and skin health. The iRestore Elite is their most advanced laser hair growth system, using 300 lasers and 200 LEDs to help regrow thicker, healthier hair in as little as three months. It's effortless, just wear it while working, reading, or on winding at night. And the aforementioned Illumina face mask, lightweight, cordless, and packed with two times more LEDs than other top masks. It targets fine lines, breakouts, and dullness with triple wavelength light therapy. Just 10 minutes a few times a week for brighter, smoother, healthier looking skin. And here's the best part, during their anniversary sale, you can bundle the iRestore Elite and Illumina face mask together, making it the perfect time to upgrade your routine. So if you're refreshing your routine or finally giving your hair and skin the attention they deserve, this bundle is a powerful way to elevate it and even better value during this limited time anniversary event. iRestore is so confident in their technology that they offer a 12 month money back guarantee. If you don't see healthier looking skin or fuller looking hair, you'll get a full refund, no awkward questions, just results or your money back. Restocking fee applies. iRestore is kicking off their anniversary sale with some huge discounts on their red light therapy devices. Right now, you can save on customer favorites like the iRestore Elite Helmet and the Illumina Face Mask. Just head to irestore.com and use code KEEPIT to take advantage of the sale. That's keepit at irestore.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Give your hair and skin the upgrade they deserve so you can feel confident and refreshed. And we're back with the keep it portion of the show Keep It. Kyle, what are you saying keep it to this week?

Speaker 2:
[72:29] Okay, so mine's a journey.

Speaker 1:
[72:30] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[72:30] Are we prepared?

Speaker 1:
[72:31] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[72:31] Because I want to generally refute something before going in for the specialized kill.

Speaker 1:
[72:36] Oh, all right.

Speaker 2:
[72:37] And the thing I'm initially gonna refute, and don't worry, I will eventually say keep it, is the idea that Coachella crowds don't dance. Now, this is something that we see like clockwork every year on social media. People are always posting clips of like, I don't see anybody dancing to that, like, must suck over there. And I feel like, first of all, clips of people dancing are not going to go viral. The reason that these clips are going viral, like if there's an occasional, I don't know, like people aren't dancing to Like A Virgin, is because people are at home and they don't want to have gone to Coachella. Like, they don't want to, you know, be confronted with something that might have been really fun. So they want to say, oh yeah, it sucks. Influencers, like it's boring. The people there aren't any fun. Like, it's almost like a cousin to FOMO. It's nomo. I didn't want to go anyway. And I don't want you to have fun, have had fun if you did go. But my experience of Coachella is very different. I actually felt like this was the danciest Coachella I've ever been to. Like people were getting their life at Slayyyter, at Nina Jorachi. There were mosh pits happening around me at Geese. I don't know. I was like really thrilled. And I do think that if you know, like if you sort of head back from those VIP influencer parts of the crowd, you are going to see tons of dancing. And you might not hear that crowd noise on the stream, but that's because you're in a big field. So the crowd noise is not going to be mic'd the same way. Now, that said, can we fight the real enemy? Can we issue a Keep It! to the slim subsection of people who don't dance, but make it terrible for all of us, which are the people who get there early for the headliner and sit down.

Speaker 1:
[74:20] What the fuck?

Speaker 2:
[74:21] So this happens at every music festival.

Speaker 1:
[74:23] Real Airbnb squatter shit.

Speaker 2:
[74:24] Yeah, it's not specific just to Coachella, but I definitely have experienced this many times at Coachella. You know, like, kudos to the Beliebers who got there early, who made it to the barricades. But you have to get up during the strokes. I don't want to dance onto your hand during Hard to Explain. And also part of the fun of being at a music festival is experiencing artists that you're not there for, you know? I mean, also part of the price of the music festival is experiencing other artists. So I don't care if it's not like a one-to-one match with who you're there to see and who's on the undercard. Like, you know, if you're there to see Skrillex, fantastic. But you have to get up and confusedly shake ass to Bjork. Like, it's just part of the agreement that you're making as a good festival goer.

Speaker 1:
[75:13] Well, I would also say that part of the agreement is that you're also there to be in the company of other people. So you're bringing a vibe. Everybody is bringing a vibe. Like, the whole point of dressing up is that you're bringing something to this festival. It's not just that you're a passive Zoom viewer. You know, you're there in person. So to be around people who are not participating in your joy or selectively doling it out feels so annoying.

Speaker 2:
[75:33] I know that music festivals can be exhausting and it's a marathon. But, you know, sit down in between the sets. Do not sit down during. Get up and sway if you have to. And this goes double for people who bring big fucking backpacks.

Speaker 1:
[75:46] Oh, well, I was just thinking, by the way, though. So Justin Bieber, not necessarily a dance set. You know, some of the music. I feel like the only way you can really ideally experience Justin Bieber is if you're a straight man with your arms around your straight girlfriend.

Speaker 2:
[75:59] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[76:00] And you want to sway a little. That's it, though.

Speaker 2:
[76:03] Well, look, I love Swag, his most recent album, which was the bulk of the Justin Bieber set.

Speaker 1:
[76:08] I actually like that album, too. I do, too.

Speaker 2:
[76:09] But is it bouncy dance pop? No, it's not. And when he started playing his hits off of YouTube, people were actually dancing. I did see people criticizing the crowd for not dancing to Like a Virgin, but Sabrina and Madonna were not dancing to that either. They were standing there and they were walking around. And that's fine. People had their phones out? Yes, because it's like famous Madonna singing Like a Virgin with Sabrina.

Speaker 1:
[76:33] I was a little bit that they were seemingly so mad about that. It's like, guys, if Madonna is there, I'm sorry, it's like Jesus Christ is there. What are you supposed to do? I will get a picture of Jesus Christ on my phone.

Speaker 2:
[76:43] When people are like, oh, I can't believe people have their phones out, that just tells me that you have not been to a concert in the last 10 years. Now, look, I would much rather people did not take their phones out. But here's what happens. When a big hit gets played or somebody comes out, people will take their phones out. They will record the first 20 seconds of that song and then typically put them away and like dance and have fun. But if you're looking at that first 20 seconds, you are going to see a sea of phones. That's just how it is. I actually don't mind it as much with Coachella because even though they do that live stream, they strike that from the record. It is no longer like bound after a week. So you will eventually only be able to rely on little contraband streams or videos, but mostly what videos people took. So it's adding to the historical record.

Speaker 1:
[77:32] Additional keep it to whoever stole Madonna's costume afterwards. She has lost the outfit she was wearing at Coachella, which is so, I mean, I would like to see her be bedeviled backstage by whoever took this from her. How was that even possible?

Speaker 2:
[77:45] I know you're gonna post you wearing that stolen bustier to close friends. I know it.

Speaker 1:
[77:50] A lavender bustier. You've all wanted it. You're gonna get it. My keep it actually dovetails with that Madonna discussion. Keep it to the movie Michael, which we're about to get. I just saw on my phone the Rotten Tomatoes score. Baby, it's a 27%. We put all this money into this dubious-ass life story, which by the way, you still hear Michael Jackson wherever you go all the time, the supermarket, wherever.

Speaker 2:
[78:16] Gas station.

Speaker 1:
[78:16] Yes, and it's this awkward thing of we've never really done the full reckoning on what we basically know about Michael Jackson and in this movie, which stars a relative of his, Jafar Jackson, we are almost certainly getting an anesthetized version of events and the fact is, even though I honestly am a defender of music biopics, I will see most of them and in fact, if I have to review it for this very podcast to save some people going out, honey, I'm going to do it. But we have nothing left to learn about Michael Jackson. In fact, we had to do the research ourselves. I don't need this movie to lay on a patina of prestige. He no longer merits. By the way, I just want to say I work at Hollywood Boulevard where I look out the window and see people toasting Michael Jackson every single day. So we are not lacking for interest in him. And I'm sure we have the musical on Broadway, for example. There are plenty of tributes to him still going on, whatever. We still have not done the full purge of that. We just don't need this anymore. It is gross to be toasting Michael Jackson.

Speaker 2:
[79:19] Well, yes, for all the obvious reasons, but then also, if it is a movie that is essentially sanctioned and shepherded by his estate in order to get the catalog of songs, you're not going to get the warts and all portrayal. The funny thing is they sort of tried to be a little warts and all. They were actually alluding to and portraying elements of the lawsuit and accusations against Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1:
[79:42] I believe I heard that the framing had to do with that.

Speaker 2:
[79:44] Then they had to strip all those out because the estate had not properly communicated that those things could not be portrayed in a movie without violating a settlement agreement. So they had to take into account these really lengthy, costly reshoots to strip the movie of that and try to prop it up with something else.

Speaker 1:
[80:03] Right. No, the Michael Jackson estate is like its own Scientology. There's a whole lore there that we'll never understand. It's very strange.

Speaker 2:
[80:11] But at the same time, when you do say, well, we know everything about Michael Jackson, I was thinking when I talked about Madonna earlier, what does a 21-year-old know about Madonna? These music biopics, these jukebox musicals, we might say, we know plenty already. But they are an effective way of reintroducing these legacy artists to younger generations that don't know them. I know that we all know the song Bohemian Rhapsody when it comes on. But I don't know, did young people really know Queen and Freddie Mercury in the way that they do after that hit movie? I think that if Madonna had actually ever gotten her biopic off the ground like she wanted to, I think that would have given people a jolt where maybe they would have danced a little more to Like A Virgin.

Speaker 1:
[80:58] That's like a prayer. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[81:00] Like a prayer.

Speaker 1:
[81:00] Yes. No. And I want to say, by the way, like when Mamma Mia came out, I don't know that I actually had owned Abba Gold yet. I'm saying there's a version of this I can, you know, deal with or whatever, but Abba is like the least problematic band of all time as far as this goes. So like, that's like, I'm totally okay with that. This is just an extremely dicey enterprise. Like I don't even like how Janet has dealt with Michael's legacy. Like there's lots of angles on this I just don't like. But apparently the movie is also just bad. So if you want to pass it up, it won't be that hard.

Speaker 2:
[81:28] Also Janet apparently not really in this movie.

Speaker 1:
[81:31] Interesting, right. Dubious, what's going on? Who's playing Quincy Jones? It's not Coleman Domingo.

Speaker 2:
[81:38] No, Coleman Domingo is playing his dad.

Speaker 1:
[81:40] Right, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[81:41] I don't know, is Quincy Jones like a major figure in the movie?

Speaker 1:
[81:43] You would fucking think.

Speaker 2:
[81:45] You know who's randomly in this movie, Mike Myers. Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[81:48] Doing what? Oh, Kendrick Sampson plays Quincy Jones. That's a little intriguing. Anyway, I won't be saying it or I will be, and you'll be hearing all about it. Never mind. Kyle, thank you so much for joining me once again.

Speaker 2:
[81:59] Always.

Speaker 1:
[82:00] Let's say I'm on social media and I want something to do. I'm going to look up Kyle Buchanan. Where would you be?

Speaker 2:
[82:04] I am on Twitter slash X as Kyle Buchanan, and you can also find my byline on the New York Times. You can click on that byline and read a whole bunch of articles from me. I am about to go to the Cannes Film Festival in the next few weeks. I will be giving you all the details from the French Riviera while I'm there.

Speaker 1:
[82:25] I am so psyched to read all about it. I read everything you write. Everything you write. That's amazing.

Speaker 2:
[82:29] I appreciate that.

Speaker 1:
[82:30] Thank you to Kyle for being here. Thank you to the glorious Ellen Burstyn for being here. We'll be back next week with an all new episode of Keep It. Don't forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. If you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath and our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, Rachel Gajewski, and Jay Banks. Thank you to David Toles and Charlotte Landis for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with Writers Guild of America East.