transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:07] Hey, Bible readers. Welcome to TBR Deep Dive. I'm Emma Dotter.

Speaker 2:
[00:12] I'm Kirsten McCloskey.

Speaker 1:
[00:13] And we are going to jump right in with our first question.

Speaker 2:
[00:17] Awesome.

Speaker 1:
[00:18] It comes from day 109, and it's really more of a general question.

Speaker 2:
[00:21] Love it.

Speaker 1:
[00:22] I'd love to hear more about, it's actually really not a question, it's a prompt. Okay, you ready for your first prompt?

Speaker 2:
[00:29] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[00:30] Plot twist, here we go. I'd love to hear more about Samuel being brought up from the dead. This is such a unique story.

Speaker 2:
[00:37] Yes. Yes, it is. This is a wild story. Okay. So we see in the medium's response that she's super surprised when she sees Samuel. And TLC actually mentioned this in our reading this week, in the recap this week. And what I think this suggests is that this was an act of God, and the woman really did see Samuel. So how exactly this happened, what exactly this looked like, we don't necessarily know. Although we do know that she saw an old man wrapped in a robe, which apparently was different than what she was either expecting or what she was used to seeing. So the thought behind what this woman normally would have experienced in consulting spirits was that she would be communicating with the demonic in some way. And so her surprise with how this event took a turn definitely points to God's involvement. And it's honestly kind of crazy because Samuel ends up speaking prophetically to Saul. So he speaks the truth to Saul just like he did when he was alive. Whoa, that's crazy. And Saul doesn't repent. Saul just falls to the ground and he's terrified, but he doesn't turn to God in this instant, which I think is really ends up being kind of a sad story in so many ways. Because like, instead of going to God, he goes to this medium because he's not hearing from God. But there's obviously, yeah, just so much more going on.

Speaker 1:
[02:12] Yeah, I think I agree. Yes, and the story shows God is the one in control, not Saul and not the medium. So in chapter 28, God interrupts her normal practice to deliver a message Saul does not want to hear. And her shock tells you that this kind of response probably wasn't normal.

Speaker 2:
[02:35] Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[02:36] And the point isn't how to talk to the dead.

Speaker 2:
[02:40] That's not the point. Definitely not.

Speaker 1:
[02:41] The point is that God can break into any situation to confront rebellion. And in this instance, it's Saul's rebellion.

Speaker 2:
[02:50] And this story, I feel like, just shows Saul's continual decline, which is why I think it's so sad, because he keeps moving away from God rather than towards God.

Speaker 1:
[03:03] Totally.

Speaker 2:
[03:04] Saul continually made choices that showed his lack of trust in God, and he let fear pretty consistently be the driving factor in his life.

Speaker 1:
[03:15] Yeah. But despite that, God can and still will use anything he desires to communicate his truth, even when a guy like Saul is just consistently running away, doing the wrong thing.

Speaker 2:
[03:29] Yeah. And I think it can be easy to look at Saul in this story and be like, wow, that was dumb.

Speaker 1:
[03:35] Why'd you do that?

Speaker 2:
[03:36] Or that was wicked, or whatever we would put in there. But we're kind of plagued with these same instincts often, that it can be tempting to try to get some cheat codes or some sort of shortcut to find out God's plans to seek wisdom from the world instead of waiting on God. But we see that does not end well in this story. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:03] Samuel's appearance proves that God's word has not changed. Samuel doesn't reveal any new secrets. He just repeats the same judgment God had already spoken. Yeah, true. And that matters because it shows us this story isn't about magic or hidden knowledge. It's about the unchanging, the absolutely unchanging authority of God's word. Saul can be desperate or afraid or disobedient, but God's decision stands firm.

Speaker 2:
[04:34] Yeah, I feel like in some ways it reminds me a little bit of Balaam cursing Israel. Well, I should say cursing because he never gets to curse Israel. He can only bless Israel. So it feels like, again, this super weird story. This really bizarre situation where, like with Balaam, he's kind of on his own path. He's thinking he's going to do his own thing, but he ends up just having to over and over and over again, bless Israel, even though he probably doesn't even really want to. And then we see here with this medium and with Saul, that God is like, all right, you're gonna hear from me here. And yeah, so it's just, it's very fascinating.

Speaker 1:
[05:14] So fascinating.

Speaker 2:
[05:15] Yeah. But it makes us not want to put God, we don't want to put God in a box after we're reading.

Speaker 1:
[05:20] We can't put God in a box. But you know what else is fascinating?

Speaker 2:
[05:25] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[05:26] The Psalms.

Speaker 2:
[05:26] The Psalms.

Speaker 1:
[05:27] Should we go to our next question?

Speaker 2:
[05:28] Let's go to the Psalms.

Speaker 1:
[05:29] All right.

Speaker 2:
[05:30] Let's do it. Okay, so our next question is a little bit more general, coming from the Psalm of Ascents. So referencing Psalm 121, 123 to 125, 128 to 30, and this comes from Day 110. And the question is, I know TLC mentioned we shouldn't do a direct one-to-one correlation between the promises in these Psalms and our own lives. How can I apply these verses to my life? Or should I not apply these verses to my life?

Speaker 1:
[06:02] So a quick distinction, Psalms of Ascents. There's about 15 of them, and these are...

Speaker 2:
[06:08] Yeah, so I didn't list all of them, just a few.

Speaker 1:
[06:10] That's okay. And they were Psalms that would be used in worship as Jewish people went on pilgrimages. I forgot how to say that word for a second. Went on pilgrimages to Jerusalem. That was the contextual purpose of when these art were used and maybe are used in Jewish culture then and how they're viewed now. But we can apply them to our lives. We just apply them as principles, not promises.

Speaker 2:
[06:39] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[06:40] Principles, not promises. So these were beautiful Psalms for Israelites traveling to Jerusalem to worship. And they contain beautiful truths about God, God's character. But not every line is a direct one-to-one guarantee for every modern situation. But still, they absolutely shape how we can trust God today. So three ways to apply them without misusing them. Number one, we can look for who God is, not what we're promised. Because these Psalms weren't written to us. So for example, when Psalm 121 says God keeps you from all evil, that doesn't mean nothing hard will ever come. Like hard things will come. It means that your helper and your guardian and your keeper is God. And that is still true today. So the application becomes, if God was their keeper, he can be my keeper too, even if our circumstances look different.

Speaker 2:
[07:40] Can I pause you there for a second? Because I think in some ways, these Psalms were not necessarily always promises for the people of Israel either. And so I kind of want to run this by you as we're talking about it, because take for instance, Psalm 121, what you just read, God keeps you from all evil. The reality for them is that they would have also experienced potentially evil in their lives. And so I think that in some ways like...

Speaker 1:
[08:11] But the modern reader could read that and think that that's what it meant for Israel. Like it sounds like at face value, God keeps them from evil, no evil will enter their lives. But you're right, that's not necessarily true for them either.

Speaker 2:
[08:23] Right, so in some ways, they kind of had to do... I'm just trying to connect it a little bit to us in that in some ways, the Israelites also had to understand kind of the context of what they were working with. Because as they're making these pilgrimages to Jerusalem, there's danger on that journey, there's fear. And so we're not actually in that different of a situation from them. I kind of think, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:
[08:49] Yeah, that makes sense. I would say we can apply the principle, not the specific outcome of the situation. So this would be my second kind of category of how we should think about applying them. For example, Psalm 128 talks about blessings like fertile land and big families and even material abundance.

Speaker 2:
[09:09] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[09:10] That is in Psalm 128. But those were covenant specific blessings tied to Israel's life in the land. So that outcome wouldn't necessarily be something we could still apply to. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[09:22] And I feel like that's really kind of where the distinction starts to come about, I think. That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1:
[09:27] But the principle still stands. God delights to bless his people and obedience to him leads to flourishing for us. But that's going to look different for me today than it did for them. Then the third thing I'd say about applying the Psalms of Ascent is to let these Psalms train your heart. Don't use them to attempt to predict your future. That's good. The songs of Ascent, they were meant to shape Israel's mindset as they approached God, reminding them, trust him, hope in him, wait on him, walk with him. Those heart postures, they apply, well, when? Every day of our Christian lives, we don't have to force a promise. We just ask, how does the Psalm teach me to think, feel, or trust differently today?

Speaker 2:
[10:17] Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Thank you. Talking about applying something is to put it to use for a practical purpose, and so we definitely want to be applying the Psalms to our lives. But we just, again, like what you've been saying, we need to look for those theological principles behind what's actually being said that are going to show us the truths about God and ourselves in many ways, in these Psalms. So those details about who God is, that's what really needs to be shaping our lives. And in that way, that's how we're applying it. It's not just the head knowledge, like the one you used as an example, God is my keeper. That's not just something intellectually I need to be like walking around, God is my keeper, God is my keeper. No, that's about trust. And practically, that's about trusting God as you make, maybe an important financial decision. You make a relational decision. And something funky happens at work and you don't know what to do. That's where you're remembering, okay, I'm applying this psalm to my life. God is my keeper. I trust him. God, what should I do?

Speaker 1:
[11:27] That's right. They remind me that even if my circumstances aren't exactly identical to the Israelites, which they aren't, they worshiped the same God. And so I can let their songs study my trust, deepen my hope, shape my view of God, remind me of truth without accepting the same outcomes.

Speaker 2:
[11:47] Yeah, yep, exactly. Yeah, so I think as you're reading through the Psalms, ask God to help show you how to apply his character, what you're learning about him and his timeless truths. So these principles that we're pulling out from these Psalms, ask him to help you apply that to your life. I guarantee you will find yourself being encouraged by who God is and that will help you trust him more. And that's such a great way to apply these to our lives.

Speaker 1:
[12:17] You ready for the next question?

Speaker 2:
[12:18] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[12:19] It comes from day 112, and specifically from Psalm 61, which I'll read for us. Go ahead. It says, Oh Lord, rebuke me not in your anger, nor discipline me in your wrath. And the question is, how do I know if God is disciplining me? What does God's discipline look like today?

Speaker 2:
[12:39] Yeah. So I think in many ways, God is pretty consistently disciplining us as kids. And the first verse that comes to mind when we were looking into this is Hebrews 12, 6. So where it says, the Lord disciplines the one he loves. And we know that God loves us. And therefore, we can anticipate that that means that there will be discipline in our lives. And so before we kind of unpack a little bit more about that, let's make sure we understand what discipline is.

Speaker 1:
[13:11] It's good.

Speaker 2:
[13:12] Because I think maybe it can be easy to have a couple different ideas about maybe what this is. And if we don't understand it, maybe it sounds scarier or something we might be afraid of. So discipline is about teaching and training people. It is about instruction and specifically for God's discipline, it's about instructing his people in the way of obedience. And then that also means providing consequences for not obeying. But this is so important. Discipline is not punishment.

Speaker 1:
[13:44] It's good.

Speaker 2:
[13:46] Discipline is not punishment. As God's kids, Jesus took the punishment for our sins on the cross. God has no punishment left for you.

Speaker 1:
[13:57] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[13:58] But he does have lessons. He has instruction for you to learn. And so as God's kids, we're learning his rules. We're learning his ways. We're learning what he loves, how he wants us to live. And as we learn, we should expect and anticipate that there can be maybe positive and negative reinforcements for our behavior as we grow.

Speaker 1:
[14:22] Totally. I think about God's discipline, not as punishment, because it never is, as you said, but as a loving correction. Punishment is about payback, getting what you deserve in return for your actions or consequence. Discipline is about restoration.

Speaker 2:
[14:40] That's good.

Speaker 1:
[14:41] So if you're in Christ, Jesus has taken every ounce of punishment on the cross, as you said, but when God disciplines, it's not God saying, I'm angry at you. It's God saying, I love you too much to let you stay stuck.

Speaker 2:
[14:56] Yeah. Yep. That is so true. And I think it's discipline can also be God guiding us. That's a part of being trained and he corrects us. That's what helps us learn. And I think he uses all kinds of different experiences and opportunities in our lives to discipline us and to redirect us and to correct us. And these all fall under the goal of discipline. And I think one way to know if God is disciplining you or correcting you or teaching you in some way is to ask him. If you're in a situation right now, you kind of don't know how to think about it, ask God if there's some way that he's using the situation or maybe a person to discipline you. And again, keep the correct understanding of that word discipline. It's about training. It's about guiding. Versus, I think many of us, when we hear discipline, we think punishment. And so that can really warp our understanding of, honestly, how amazing discipline is.

Speaker 1:
[16:02] Yeah, it's a good thing.

Speaker 2:
[16:03] We need it.

Speaker 1:
[16:04] Yeah. Hebrews 12 says God disciplines his children so we can share in his holiness and ultimately experience the peaceful fruit that comes from listening to him. So if what you're feeling is panic or shame or fear, that's not discipline. That's a voice of condemnation. That's the enemy because Romans 8.1 says there's none of that in Christ. There's no condemnation. God's true discipline leads to clarity, closeness and joyful repentance. Now there may still be consequences for whatever it is we did to need the discipline. But it doesn't lead to shame. Shame isn't of God.

Speaker 2:
[16:46] Yeah. Yeah. I think too, because there can be these positive or negative aspects to discipline in the sense that something might be a consequence for something. But also, it might be a positive, like God is moving you forward in teaching you this thing, and it's actually a really joyful sense of discipline. So I think that there's a couple of different ways to view it. And also, not every bad thing that happens is, oh my gosh, this must be God disciplining me. Not every trial is God being like, see, there you go. That's not the way that we want to be thinking about God, because it's not true.

Speaker 1:
[17:28] Yeah. And if you're listening to this and you're wondering if God's disciplining you, which I think is a fair question to ask, the question is, is God using this moment or this experience, this thing I may think is discipline, to draw me back toward himself? Discipline isn't God, as new covenant believers, believers who are living on this side of the cross, discipline isn't God distancing himself, it's God inviting us closer, shaping us into people who look more like him, rather than pulling away.

Speaker 2:
[18:03] Yep. Amen. I love that. Okay, let's go ahead and jump into a very different topic. Let's talk about Abigail's story. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[18:13] I would love to.

Speaker 2:
[18:14] Okay, so this comes from day 107 and from 1 Samuel 25. So I'll go ahead and read the question, then do a little quick summary. So I was so inspired by Abigail's story, but I was really bothered by David's initial response to rejection. He responded so erratically. This is also more of a prompt than a question.

Speaker 1:
[18:36] It is. We've had a couple of those today, and that's okay.

Speaker 2:
[18:39] I like it.

Speaker 1:
[18:39] We're okay with that.

Speaker 2:
[18:40] We need to say it's not a question.

Speaker 1:
[18:41] It's not a question. It's a thought we're going to respond to.

Speaker 2:
[18:46] Yes, we're going to respond to this. But so if you remember in 1 Samuel 25, David nearly takes violent revenge on Nabal who had insulted him.

Speaker 1:
[18:57] Nabal? I always say Nabal.

Speaker 2:
[18:59] Nabal. I will try it again in the second part of what I'm saying. I will say Nabal, but Nabal's wife, Abigail, intervenes. She's wise. She's humble. She's very generous, and she basically saves the day.

Speaker 1:
[19:14] She really does.

Speaker 2:
[19:15] She really does. So what are your thoughts on this? David's response, Abigail's amazing-ness.

Speaker 1:
[19:22] Yes, the star of the show.

Speaker 2:
[19:24] The star of the show.

Speaker 1:
[19:25] I would say to the statement rather than the question, yes, this person is right. David's reaction is shocking, but the story isn't trying to hide that. So even godly people can have moments where we have very human reactions under stress. We're not perfect. And David has been running for his life, protecting people who don't thank him, it seems, and living under constant pressure. So when Nabal rejects him, it seems like it hits a very raw nerve.

Speaker 2:
[20:02] Well, and I think what he asked for is not crazy.

Speaker 1:
[20:06] No, it's not. It's like David gets triggered by something that is a very reasonable thing to ask for. But his reaction is really extreme because Nabal didn't have to do this. Nabal was not obligated to cater to David's request. So David gets told no and kind of reacts like a child who's lashing out with a very extreme reaction. I'm just going to go kill everybody, which is not okay, even if it was a simple request. So the Bible isn't airbrushing its heroes or the star characters. It's saying, yes, even the man after God's own heart reacts in anger. He is not perfect, which should encourage us because God works in and through real human beings, not polished, perfect, pretend like we have it all together, fake ones.

Speaker 2:
[21:02] Well, and also, unpacking this story a little bit, we learned that Nabal, how do you say it?

Speaker 1:
[21:09] Nabal.

Speaker 2:
[21:10] Nabal, okay.

Speaker 1:
[21:10] You said it right.

Speaker 2:
[21:11] Yeah, great. I mean, now I'm second guessing myself.

Speaker 1:
[21:13] I don't know that I'm the expert in Hebrew name pronunciation.

Speaker 2:
[21:16] Me neither. Okay, so we see that actually Nabal was harsh and badly behaved. So this is referenced in 1 Samuel 25.3. So the author does want us to understand that what we're going to see from Nabal is really bad behavior and so both in the wrong. Yes, exactly. And so Nabal's behavior is bad, but so is David's. David was irrational, it seems like. But the thing is is that Nabal is also really inappropriate and he's insulting to David and his men. And I think something that's kind of important here too is that Nabal certainly was aware of who David was as like he was supposed to be the future king, but he regarded him as a thief. So he really treated him poorly. And Nabal is really the one in the wrong. But then we see that David, after Abigail confronts him and begs him not to kill everybody, we see that David recognizes that his response was also wrong. So he kind of has this moment where he comes in 1 Samuel 25, 32 to 33, and he says, Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, who sent you this day to meet me, talking to Abigail. Blessed be your discretion, and blessed be you, who have kept me this day from blood guilt and from working salvation with my own hand. So it's interesting because the hero in this story is God, and he was at work behind the scenes giving Abigail wisdom, discernment, and just the means to divert this disaster. So we might be troubled by David's response, but we also see God's sovereign hand working through this story.

Speaker 1:
[23:04] Totally, and when I look at the story, I'm like, David's anger shows us why we need God's sovereign hand, why we need God's intervention, because wise, and so do wise people like Abigail. Yeah. Honestly, David's impulse is revenge, not righteousness. But instead of letting David ruin his future, God sends Abigail to stop him. Her wisdom becomes an expression of the mercy of God in David's life. And it's a reminder that sometimes God protects us from our own worst moments through the voice of a friend or a timely interruption. Interruptions aren't always bad. And it shows us how quickly emotions can take over when we're not letting the Spirit lead. Because David goes from, God is my refuge, to everyone's strap on a sword in literally one verse. I think that's why that was the verse at the top. But when, in one verse, but when, but when Abigail speaks, he immediately softens, showing that his heart is still responsive. Now, we could go on a whole tangent and look at Abigail's words and how she spoke to him. And there's a lot there. But the difference isn't David's, David's personality. It's that David's heart was still responsive to God. David's response to Abigail is showing us who David's still listening to.

Speaker 2:
[24:25] Well, and he recognized the wisdom in what she was saying.

Speaker 1:
[24:30] Totally. And the spirit's leading that conversation. So when the spirit's leading, David yields. But when David's flesh is leading, he spirals into anger, at least in this instance.

Speaker 2:
[24:41] Yeah. I think this can be an encouraging and assuring story that God can protect us from ourselves in these ways where we kind of, you know, we fly off the handle or we want to go our own way and just, then he brings, God brings someone like Abigail into our lives, like what you were mentioning. Maybe it's a friend, maybe it's someone at church. It could be a random coworker. It could be a random person on the street that you don't even know. But it's just encouraging to know that God is at work in our lives, whether we are aware of it or not. And this story, I think, is a cool example.

Speaker 1:
[25:19] I agree. I agree. For me, it reminds me that when I have a moment where I react to fear or frustration, God can still interrupt me with his mercy. I want to be as quick as I can to yield to a spirit or yield to the spirit in whatever other believer he's using to remind me of truth, and be quick to return to God, just like David was.

Speaker 2:
[25:42] That's so good.

Speaker 1:
[25:43] But on that note, let's talk about another psalm, if you will. This question comes from Day 112, specifically from Psalm 8-5, which reads, Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. So the question is, I've always been intrigued by this verse. Does this mean humans are lower than angels because angels are in heaven and we are on earth? Or does it mean humans are less than angels?

Speaker 2:
[26:11] Yeah. I think exactly what's happening. I think it's possible that there's a little bit of kind of both going on here. So let's unpack it a little bit. God made humans with bodies, okay? So he made Adam from the dust of the earth and then he made Eve from Adam's rib. And so in doing this, we are tied to creation and to the earth. God created us. So we are earth beings, but angels live in the heavenly realm. So kind of that distinction of are we lower than them because they're in the heavenly realm and we're bound to the earth. So because we're on earth, they're in heaven, we are spatially lower than the angels. So that's one way that you could look at this. But I think what we do really want to be clear about is that this is definitely not saying that we are lower than the angels in worth. And that is really, really important. We're actually above them in that regard because humans are made in the image of God and angels are not. So it's not about value as in angels are more valuable than humans. And I think honestly, David is really trying to highlight God's great love of humanity in this song. So we kind of don't want to be too distracted.

Speaker 1:
[27:34] I was going to say, it really highlights human dignity, not angelic superiority because the whole point of psalm is a wonder how could such a big God care about such small creatures. And the shock isn't that we're below the angels, it's that the God of the universe places humans just below the heavenly realm, gives us real authority, and then elevates our view of human worth. He doesn't diminish it.

Speaker 2:
[28:03] Right, 100%. Yeah, it's emphasizing our place as God's image bearers on the earth. We're his representatives to rule over creation. And so we're a little lower than the heavenly beings right now, but meant to be seen as above the rest of creation because we're supposed to care for the rest of creation the way that God cares for us. And so David could have maybe also said, you have made us higher than the animals. Like he could have phrased it a different way. He wanted us to maybe be looking upward to God. And he wanted us to be marveling at the God who created us and the fact that we are made in his image.

Speaker 1:
[28:43] Yeah. Psalm 8 reminds me that even if I feel ordinary or small, God has placed unique dignity on human life, including mine. I'm not valued because of where I live, Earth or Heaven. I'm valued. I have dignity because of whose image I bear. I am made in his image.

Speaker 2:
[29:08] Amen.

Speaker 1:
[29:08] That's all I got.

Speaker 2:
[29:09] That's great, Emma. I think we solved it.

Speaker 1:
[29:12] Solved. Case closed.

Speaker 2:
[29:15] All right. Well, thank you for joining us and thanks for taking a deep dive with us. We'll see you again next week as we continue to read, understand, and love the Bible and the God who wrote it. We're not just the hosts of TBR Deep Dive, we're also part of the TBR writing team.

Speaker 1:
[29:33] Did you know that The Bible Recap releases studies on individual books of the Bible?

Speaker 2:
[29:38] These 10-week Bible studies are an even deeper dive into scripture.

Speaker 1:
[29:42] They're all part of our series called Knowing God.

Speaker 2:
[29:45] To write these studies, we team up with Tara-Leigh Cobble, our Theology Director, Laura Buschelt, and a handful of other writers on our team, including Ms. Emily from TBR Kids.

Speaker 1:
[29:55] If you'd like to learn more about our Knowing God series, check out the book section of the TBR Store at thebiblerecap.com/store, or click on the link in the show notes.