transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves. Loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at thrivent.com.

Speaker 2:
[00:32] Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. I hosted from Washington yesterday, Tony. Today, I'm in New York City.

Speaker 3:
[00:39] I'm Tony Kornheiser. Look at you, Mr. I-95. Look at you.

Speaker 2:
[00:45] How about that? And you know, if the series goes any length, I'm gonna hit Boston and Philly, too. How about that? I'll just be missing Providence, Rhode Island. That's all I'll be missing at that point along I-95.

Speaker 3:
[00:58] But that's okay. I'll send an uber for you so you can go to Providence, so you can cover them all. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, Billy Donovan steps down, the Oilers go up, and Tim Legler joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with a couple of upsets in the NBA playoffs last night. The Atlanta Hawks came back from 12 down on the fourth to beat the Knicks in New York, a game that you called, Wilbon, you had it right. And the Timberwolves came back from 19 points down in the first half and beat Denver in Denver. So, Wilbon, which loss was a bigger deal?

Speaker 2:
[01:32] Tony, I think the Denver loss was a bigger deal because we've seen Minnesota beat Denver in a series. Seen it. Saw it happen when Denver was reigning champion and Minnesota took them out. And that has become quite a rivalry. The kind of rivalry that I love is like 80s and 90s basketball, in that you got a couple of teams that have developed an authentic dislike for one another. And Minnesota plays defensively well enough to really neutralize Denver. Even if they're playing in Denver, where opposing teams usually run out of energy, that was not the case. And you also have Rudy Gobert, who can guard Joker. He can, at least for a while. Most teams don't even attempt to do that with one guy, because you don't have the size or skill of it to do it. Four times, I think he's been defensive player of the year. So I'm looking at Gobert and his ability to do that, hurting Denver as well. I'm not saying the Knicks should not be worried because they should be. They've targeted Jalen Brunson defensively and said, have some of this. We're going to come at you. And it worked with CJ McCollum. But I think Denver is in a little more spot of trouble.

Speaker 3:
[02:45] For every reason that you talked about Denver and Minnesota, that's why I disagree with you completely. I sat in this chair a week ago and said, I thought the Denver Minnesota series would be the best and most competitive first round playoff series in any sport. So I'm not the slightest bit surprised that Minnesota won that game. And I'm not going to be the slightest bit surprised if Denver comes back and wins one or two in Minnesota. I might be a little bit surprised if Gobert does what he did last night, holding, you know, when he guarded Jokic, that he only got four points and shot one for eight. Mike, these teams have played each other in the last four years in the regular season and in the playoffs 30 times. And the cast has been the same. And the tally at the moment is 15-15. So to me, the only big deal about a loss is going to be if it's a game seven loss. That's why I look at the Knicks in this particular case and think that that is a bigger loss. They blew a big lead. The last time they blew a lead, I'll just finish here, the last time they blew a lead that big in the playoff situation was Reggie Miller and the choke game. Not the game where he got eight points in three seconds, but the choke game. That's the one, it's 1994. And you're right, McCollum targets your boy, Jalen Brunson, and scored a lot of points off of him. Again, I'm with you. I'm not saying they're going to win, but they're a better team without Trey Young. They're a better team. And so we see what happens. Let's move to your Chicago Bulls, by the way. Billy Donovan surprised me anyway, by stepping down as Bulls' coach this morning. I thought he'd won a power struggle when the Bulls fired both their VP of Operations and their GM two weeks ago. Now here's Donovan walking and yet telling people he's open to coaching again. Wilbon, do you want to explain this to me?

Speaker 2:
[04:38] Tony, it was just time. And I think most of what ails the Bulls now and has for the past six years goes on the ledger of Arturus Karnishvilius, who was fired, as you just mentioned. It's his issue. He made insane choices, you know, taking Patrick Williams over Denny Avya. I mean, that's inexplicable when you look back at it and give him $95 million after he blew the draft pick. $95 to keep him, and they could have traded Alex Caruso for two number one draft picks, turn that down. Those aren't Billy Donovan decisions. So I'm going to set that over here. But the Bulls have made the playoffs one time in six years. The team wasn't, the guys who are there weren't necessarily getting better. Although, again, Karnishvilius dumped people like Ayo DeCenmo, who now looks like a super sub from Minnesota in the playoffs. You know, and so a number of mistakes. But Donovan wasn't sort of correcting the course, if you know what I mean. And that's too bad, because Billy Donovan has been a hell of a coach. He won two national championships. I think Billy Donovan could go somewhere else and be an effective coach. But it wasn't working there, Tone. Six years, one playoff appearance, time to go.

Speaker 3:
[05:57] I like Billy Donovan. He's a Long Island boy. I've known him since he was a player in college. Right? I like him a lot. But why are you quitting now? Why don't you take the Carolina job? Carolina job was right out there for you. What? Why are you doing this now? This is what is hard for me. The only thing he had won the power struggle. The Reinsdorps loved him. They said he's our guy. They said he's a hall of fame coach. And now he walks away on that. I can only think it's because he thinks the team stinks. And the team was 35, 31 and 51. So maybe the team stinks, but there is his responsibility too. As you say, six years, his record is under 500. It's 226 and 256. Only once did he make the playoffs. He only won one playoff game, only one winning season. So this wasn't exactly red hour back there. It was much better in Oklahoma City. But you got it. Where do the bulls go from here? And where does Donovan go to college? I mean, the Carolina job was out there for him.

Speaker 2:
[06:55] It was, but Tony, the Carolina job is now a pro job. College basketball is so different and Billy Donovan knows is dramatically different from when he was there. He's looking at the landscape, Tony. They don't have any players. Now they could get an important player in this draft, I guess, depending on how the lottery turns out. But if I'm Billy Donovan, I would just say, you know what? It's been real. It's been nice. But what happened here and how long to crawl out of it? He's been there six years, one playoff appearance. They're five years away from building anything. So if I'm Billy Donovan, I just take the walk. And maybe he didn't want the Carolina job because he sees the direction college basketball is going and doesn't like that too much either. And now to last night Stanley Cup playoffs. The Hurricanes appeared to beat the Senators in overtime, but Mark Jankowski's goal was overturned on review for an off-size that happened 30 seconds earlier. A Canes penalty shot was then turned away. But Carolina did win in the second overtime to go up 2-0 in that series. Also up 2-0 are the Flyers who topped the Penguins. The Stars even their series with the Wild and the Oilers took game one from the Ducks. Tom, which team had the most notable win?

Speaker 3:
[08:15] The most electric win, the sexiest win, is the Carolina win. If you watch the highlights on this, when they overturned that goal, it takes like about five or six minutes to overturn that goal. So they're turned away in the first overtime. They're then awarded a penalty shot. It's only the fifth time in the history of the NHL that you're in that penalty shot situation in an overtime in a playoff. And by the way, all five now have not worked. So they lose that opportunity. You go to a second overtime, they finally win in a second overtime. The length of that, the conditions of that, make that the biggest deal. But if you're asking me the most important win, I think it's Philadelphia. Philadelphia goes to Pittsburgh, beats them three nothing. They're dominant. They take a 2-0 lead. They've won both games in Pittsburgh. The Philadelphia Flyers haven't been in a playoff since five years. They haven't won a playoff series since, I believe, 2012. The Penguins had won two Stanley Cups in that interim. I mean, to me, that's a big deal. And I'm going to give you a name here, Porter Martone. Last month, he was playing at Michigan State. Nineteen years old, he was playing at Michigan State. He was the overall number six pick in the 2025 draft. He gets called up on March 31st. His first goal wins an overtime game. Wins the game. He goes nine regular season games, right? Four goals, six assists, and now his first two goals. He's the first teenager ever for the Flyers. Their first two goals, Mike, they were in playoff games. It's remarkable.

Speaker 2:
[09:49] I'll just put a note period on this.

Speaker 3:
[09:51] I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:
[09:51] Leon Dreisaitl, two assists. He missed 14 games. He came back, they're down 3-2, Tony, after two periods. But Edmonton wants him scoring with less than two minutes left to win that game, take a 1-0 lead on Anaheim. But Dreisaitl, if you can get Dreisaitl in on a night where McDavid doesn't score...

Speaker 3:
[10:13] Doesn't score.

Speaker 2:
[10:14] Doesn't score. That's a nice one for Edmonton.

Speaker 3:
[10:17] Small fact. The record this year for Edmonton going into this game when McDavid doesn't score, 0-12-2. Could be an omen. Let's take a break. Coming up, Victor Wembanyama is the unanimous defensive player of the year. We're going to ask Tim Ledler for specifics on how he impacts the opposing offense.

Speaker 2:
[10:36] We'll also ask him how Kevin Durant's absence changes what the Rockets can do or maybe cannot.

Speaker 3:
[10:43] How could I take all the time in a hockey segment when I don't know anything about hockey?

Speaker 4:
[10:48] How did that happen?

Speaker 3:
[10:51] People in my ear feeding me.

Speaker 2:
[10:53] Wait till Sue Bayer sees this segment. Sees you took all the air out of the room. Wait till he sees it.

Speaker 3:
[11:00] I apologize.

Speaker 5:
[11:02] As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner and protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER. Click ranger.com or just stop by.

Speaker 1:
[11:32] For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves. Loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at thrivent.com.

Speaker 3:
[12:07] We've got NBA playoff questions for our great friend, ESPN NBA analyst, Tim Legler. Tim, let's start with this. The Blazers and the Spurs are back on the court tonight. Victor Wemba Nyama was just voted unanimously defensive player of the year. I'm gonna ask you as a player, when you played, can you explain how his length and his mobility affects an opponent's offense, even when he is not blocking the shots?

Speaker 4:
[12:35] Yeah, Tony, I think in a couple of ways, and you can really see it when you're there courtside, and we called a number of Spurs games this year, and you get to see him in person and what that looks like. So you're looking at it from the player's viewpoint that has the basketball, and what they are seeing on the opposite side of the floor or wherever Wemba is, and what it literally does, it makes you process everything differently in terms of your ability to get to the rim. So you don't even attempt to turn the corner on guys when there's an angle there. There may be a gap that you could potentially attack, and you're not getting to the rim because you know in one stride, he can go from probably 10 feet outside the lane on the left side of the court and meet you on the right side of the rim with one step. So it really changes the way you approach what good offense would be on a given possession. So that's one way. The other way is the way that you now can pressure out on the floor all over the court. They've got a number of really good individual perimeter defenders, but they're even better because there's no thought process in their head about getting beat off the dribble because they know what's back there. So you imagine what that does to offense is you get pushed further out on the floor. Every pass, every ball reversal, even the simple ones to initiate to the wing are forced out on the floor. So everything is off with your timing, your spacing, because you're allowed to press up to a greater degree because of what is back there behind you. It is so disruptive even on the plays that he doesn't come near the basketball.

Speaker 2:
[14:10] Man, we could ask you wimpy questions for the whole segment, Tim, but I'll move to Los Angeles where game two tonight between the Lakers and Rockets will be played. Kevin Durant said to be a game time decision. It seems tough for me that Houston's gonna have any real chance without Durant, but how does Durant's absence change what Houston does fundamentally?

Speaker 4:
[14:35] Well, Michael, the biggest issue for them the other night was they have no answer in the mid-range. And what Kevin Durant has done throughout his career, he's the ultimate saver of possessions. Because even when a team plays a team that he's on well for the first 18, 19 seconds of a possession, Kevin Durant has the ability to get the ball back late clock, pick a spot on the floor, use his handle, stop, elevate at 6'11, with a lean back release. You can't really bother that shot, so he can bail out a possession that didn't even go well for you, particularly. And so now without him, what you saw the other night, the Lakers at all times had three, four guys in the paint. They weren't going to let Shangoob beat them down there. They weren't going to let Ammon Thompson get there off the drive. They're not a good three-point shooting team. They're a low-volume three-point shooting team, and they were going to force kickouts to guys to take those threes under duress. And that's just not their strength. They have to have that answer offensively. It's going to make everybody on the floor better, but most importantly, they have a guy that can win possessions when you get into that gray area. Five, six, seven seconds on the clock. Kevin Rand has an answer for that. And now it's a different view offensively, and their half-court defense can set up because they ended with a made-feel goal.

Speaker 2:
[16:00] We'll jump to the east for a second and ask you about the Boston Celtics. Who might have looked better than any team or at least as good as anybody in the playoffs through one game? No Joel Embiid, no Joel Embiid apparently tonight for game two. Tim, let's broaden this out to talk about the Celtics in general. Is there any place you see them vulnerable as you look not just Philadelphia but ahead for the Celtics in these playoffs?

Speaker 4:
[16:28] I'll tell you what, you'd have to really get nitpicky to find a weakness because the way I described them and I've described them this way really since the midpoint of the season, they do not contribute to their own demise. And here's what I mean by that. They take care of the ball better than any team in the league. So they're not going to turn it over. They're going to pass the ball to the open man. They're going to make the right reads, make the right decisions. They're not going to allow you to get out and run and not have to play against their half-court defense, which is exceptional. They don't make communication errors defensively. You never see the Celtics with two guys rotate on penetration when it was only supposed to be one. And if two guys go, that means there's going to be an easy kick out for a shot. Two guys don't close out at the same shooter. You just don't see them make those kinds of mistakes. They're on point, they're exceptionally well coached. They also don't allow points in the paint defensively. They're going to make sure, they're going to force you to your weaknesses. If you can make contested jump shots against them and beat them, so be it. So they don't really have weaknesses. If you really want to scrutinize, they don't get to the line much last in the league in the regular season. So in the playoffs, sometimes, some nights, if you're not shooting well, man, if you can get those 24 points from the line, that's great. They don't get there very often and they don't have a ton of depth upfront. Those would probably be the only things. This is a very well-rounded, complete team that absolutely has a legitimate shot to get to the NBA Finals.

Speaker 3:
[17:58] We will get you out of here on this and let's pretend that there's only five seconds left in the possession and you've got to be Kevin Durant for us. You're calling the magic in the Pistons tomorrow. Game one did not go well for Detroit. What happened and how fixable is it?

Speaker 4:
[18:14] I think the first thing, Tony, you ran into a team that doesn't mind taking it out in the alley, if that's how you want to play. And Detroit needs to hold, grab, they're physical, they're a great defensive team. Orlando is not a team that can be bullied in that way. I think, yes, it's fixable that Jalen Durant has got to show up. He's an All-Star this year, very quiet. Four field goal attempts in 30-plus minutes. It's not enough. You're going to expect a big response out of Jalen Durant. This is going to be an absolute brawl, I think a very long series, with two teams that physically can get after it.

Speaker 3:
[18:46] Thank you so much, Tim.

Speaker 2:
[18:48] Thanks, Tim. Appreciate you, man.

Speaker 4:
[18:50] My pleasure. Anytime.

Speaker 3:
[18:52] It's totally brilliant. He was totally brilliant. Let's take one last break still to come. The Dodgers lose the picture they were depending on.

Speaker 2:
[18:59] Mike Tomlin reportedly has a new gig. I told you. I told you months ago where Mike Tomlin would wind up.

Speaker 3:
[19:07] Yeah. That was brilliant. Legler's analysis and explanations was brilliant.

Speaker 2:
[19:13] Always is.

Speaker 6:
[19:15] Quick time out. Some breakfast intel you want to know about. Kodiak frozen power waffles and flapjacks are built for busy mornings. Heat it, eat it, and you're out the door. No long prep, no complicated game plan. They're packed with 12 to 14 grams of protein per serving, a good source of fiber, and crafted with 100% whole grains, not refined white flour. So you're getting something that actually fuels you. And there's depth on the roster. Buttermilk and vanilla, blueberry, chocolate chip, even gluten-free options. Breakfast that delivers, snack that delivers. Find Kodiak frozen waffles and flapjacks in the frozen aisle at your local grocery store. They're the ones with the bear on the box.

Speaker 7:
[19:57] Most protein drinks ask you to choose between results and taste. Bucked Up decided that's a ridiculous trade-off. Bucked Up makes lightly carbonated protein drinks, 25 grams of protein per can, clear protein, not milky or thick, and they taste so good, that 25 grams of protein almost feels like a bonus. Bucked Up is so confident you'll love their drinks, they're giving away an island vacation just to prove it. That's the kind of brand this is. No purchase necessary. Giveaway ends May 30th. Enter and find your closest Bucked Up at buckedupenergy.com. Grab a Bucked Up and feel like a million bucks.

Speaker 3:
[20:40] Happy time, people, happy 69th birthday, Jesse Orozco. I remember Orozco from his days with the New York Mets. He was one of the original Lugies, left-handed, one-out guy. Can't do that anymore. Orozco pitched for the Mets for eight seasons in his 24-year Major League career. He also pitched for the Orioles, Cleveland, Milwaukee, the Dodgers, the Padres, Yankees, Minnesota and St. Louis. The most wins Orozco had was 13 in 1983, when he was 13-7 with a 1-4-7 ERA for the Mets. His lifetime record was 87-80. His greatest number though, the Shocker, is 1,252 games. Jesse Orozco pitched in more Major League games than anyone ever. The most by an active pitcher now is Kenley Jansen's 940.

Speaker 2:
[21:29] Tony, if you'd put 10 names up and said, pick the all-time leader in games pitch, I would go to Jesse Orozco 9th or 10th. There's no chance I would guess him. Zero chance. That's impressive.

Speaker 3:
[21:46] Happy anniversary, Nick Saban. On this day 19 years ago, Saban held his first spring game at Alabama and drew a then record 92,138 fans. The previous record for a college exhibition game was just over 51,000. The Alabama game triggered a bizarre trend of schools pushing for new attendance highs for their glorified scrimmages. Ohio State hosted over 100,000 fans at their spring game in 2016. The Buckeyes claimed the three largest draws. Georgia stuck it to the tide in 2016 with 93,000. Then three Alabamas and Nebraska, another Alabama and an Auburn. The Frenzy has died down recently, but Kaelin DeBoer's first Alabama spring game in 2024 drew 72,000.

Speaker 2:
[22:29] Yeah, it might die out completely, Tony. I've heard talk that there won't be spring games at all in the way that we have come to know that they exist in recent years.

Speaker 3:
[22:39] Good.

Speaker 2:
[22:40] Could be yet another change in college football.

Speaker 3:
[22:43] Good. Happy Trails, Edwin Diaz. The Dodgers' closer could be out for three months following surgery to remove loose bodies from his pitching elbow. Diaz signed with the Dodgers in the offseason for $69 million over three years, but struggled in his last two appearances, which ballooned his ERA from under two to above ten. The 32-year-old Diaz is a three-time all-star, led the league in saves, 57 for Seattle in 2018, had an ERA of 163 for the Mets last year.

Speaker 2:
[23:13] The Dodgers are a major league best 16-6, a half game ahead of the Braves and a full game ahead of the Padres, so not exactly running away with it, even though they're being the Dodgers.

Speaker 3:
[23:26] Let's go quick to the big finish. Mike Tomlin is reporting we're headed to NBC on Football Night in America. You called that, right?

Speaker 2:
[23:32] Yes, this is easy. He could be the new John Madden. He could be if he wants to. He could redefine the whole role, the whole thing. PGA Tour is dumping both Hawaii stops. You surprised at that?

Speaker 3:
[23:44] Yes, I am. I liked watching golf in Hawaii, and I thought the players liked being here. Athletic reports the Bucks are seriously interested in Taylor Jenkins as their next head coach. Okay, with you?

Speaker 2:
[23:54] I never understood why Memphis fired Taylor Jenkins. Not at all. UConn's solo ball will have wrist surgery and red shirt next season, despite playing with that injury for much of this season. Your thoughts?

Speaker 3:
[24:06] Glad he's going back to UConn. Fabulous name, solo ball. Last one, your Mets can snap their 11 game losing streak tonight. You like their chances?

Speaker 2:
[24:15] They spent all that money and they've lost 11 straight. They're going to hear some booze at home tonight at Vista Twins.

Speaker 3:
[24:21] Some booze?

Speaker 2:
[24:22] Some?

Speaker 3:
[24:23] We're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

Speaker 2:
[24:27] I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads.

Speaker 8:
[24:30] Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional cost. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now.