transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] I spoke with Giam Battista Nacarera. He's the founder of a new outfit in Guatemala called The Whispering Trails. His background really grabbed me. He rode early rally raids, then got into GT racing with Maserati, 10 years sailing around the world, even to the Antarctic Circle. He had an advertising agency, he's got a hotel, and now he's channeling all that life experience into small premium off-road expeditions out of Antigua in Guatemala. Another thing that really struck me from the call was how he described Guatemala. See, he says a lot of the world has been sort of homogenized. You go places and you find people speak the same language, they have a lot of the same things. But here in Guatemala, village to village, the colors and even the language can change. He's got these routes that are back roads, river crossings, highlands, volcano country, all on lightweight KTM and Husqvarna motorcycles to get places that the big bike tours can't get to. Small groups, two guides with all-inclusive support. If that sounds like an adventure to you, like it does to me, the whispering trails.com. Anytime you're dealing with one of the things you hear on Adventure Rider Radio, the whispering trails.com. Welcome to Adventure Rider Radio RAW, a roundtable style show from Adventure Rider Radio that we do every month and have for well, well over a decade now. On this episode of RAW, challenging adventure rides in North America, all that and a bunch more coming up. Before we get going, I wanna give a shout out to someone who's helped the show incredibly this past month with support of $50 or more. Thank you very much to Eric Hayes. Hey, the shows that we do, they're built on a model of advertising and listener support. We really need your support. If you're not supporting already through our Patreon program or our monthly help or however, we would really appreciate if you drop by our website, adventureriderradio.com and click on support. Now, here we go, Adventure Rider Radio RAW for April, 2026. Recording live from the Canoe West Media Studio, deep in the wild forest of North America, this is Adventure Rider Radio RAW Roundtable discussions about motorcycles, travel, and anything else that crosses our mind, completely unscripted, raw and personal. My name is Jim Martin, and today at the virtual roundtable afforded through the magic of the internet, I am joined by all of my esteemed Overland co-hosts. I'm going to begin way down in South Dakota with Michelle Lampfair. Hello, Michelle.

Speaker 2:
[02:29] Hi there. So nice to call in and have a moto chat. I'm due for one. It's been a long winter, so I'm excited to catch up with you guys.

Speaker 1:
[02:38] So you're getting all ready for the season, Michelle?

Speaker 2:
[02:40] I am. Yeah, it's been a really mild winter. And so we've had dry roads and it's amazing. All winter, I've seen motorcycles coming through the Black Hills and I've seen actually a lot of adventure bikes the last probably two weeks, three weeks, even those without estate plates. So it's been kind of a strange winter. I think people are getting, you know, excited about getting out and being able to hit the road, maybe just a smidge earlier than in past years. So I had to go out to the garage the other day and take a look at my bikes. And I've been thinking about rolling them out and this is only April. So that's exciting.

Speaker 1:
[03:20] Yeah. But I'm surprised you even know what the winter was like there because haven't you been traveling a bunch?

Speaker 2:
[03:26] Not a ton, but always a little bit. I always have to run away for a little bit. I, I'm a believer that being away helps me always appreciate being home. So there's a good balance in that. So yeah, I was gone for a couple of weeks, a few weeks in March and I'm back just in time to start getting geared up for summer.

Speaker 1:
[03:47] And is that exciting for you getting, starting summer?

Speaker 2:
[03:51] Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1:
[03:53] I'm just thinking because it's a lot of work for you, right? And this is your work time of year. You've had your holiday, now you're on the work. And is it exciting work or?

Speaker 2:
[04:01] Well, I mean, I have to say, I don't always look forward to scrubbing toilets and making beds and all of that. But this is the time of year that a lot of friends come through. I have a lot of motorcyclist friends that stop by and get to meet new ones thanks to the listeners of RAW and Adventure Rider Radio. Yeah, and just kind of live vicariously through everybody being on the road and people coming to explore some of the adventure rides in my part of the world. And so, yeah, it's an exciting time of year, even with all that cleaning and laundry. It's good.

Speaker 1:
[04:34] So even though you are stuck in one place and not able to ride your bike as much as you would like, it's still nice because you're dealing with other bikers at times. So that makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[04:43] That's exactly right, yep.

Speaker 1:
[04:45] Well, let's jump over to Australia and say hello to Shirley Hardy-Ricks and Brian Ricks, who are in the early morning hours just finishing their breakfast. Good morning to the both of you.

Speaker 3:
[04:56] Good morning. The Vegemite on Toaster is finished and the sun is starting to come up and it's a bit chilly. It's heading towards, we know winter is coming now, not that it's like winter in Michelle's part of the world.

Speaker 4:
[05:10] Michelle, where's my bike boots? I'm about to go for a ride.

Speaker 3:
[05:13] What a surprise. Brian is going for a ride tomorrow.

Speaker 4:
[05:17] Yeah, I'm heading off doing a couple of thousand kilometers with a mate to catch up with some other mates who write for motorcycle magazines. It's a meaning of CHUMPs, we call ourselves CHUMPs, which stands for Confederation of Horrendously Underpaid Motorcycle Prescribes. I think we can relate to that.

Speaker 1:
[05:45] A couple of thousand kilometers, what, so you're just going for the day or you're making it two days?

Speaker 4:
[05:51] Not quite the day, Jim, but myself and Bill will head off early tomorrow morning and find somewhere to stay for the night. And then we're meeting at a little flea pit of a hotel to share a lot of yarns and a lot of laughs. So it should be good fun. And the weather's pretty good, actually, even though we're heading into winter, sun shining, you know, those lovely chilly mornings when you get on the bike and go for a ride and it clears up into a beautiful day. That's what we're looking forward to over the next four or five days.

Speaker 1:
[06:24] Hmm, well, it sounds good. And that's what we're into here because we're changing seasons as well. And it's just getting now to the time where you can get out and ride. But I mean, it's still a little cold and wet. But it's exciting. It's an exciting time of year for those of us who are stuck living in seasons that you can't ride in.

Speaker 4:
[06:42] Well, that doesn't apply to us.

Speaker 1:
[06:45] Yeah, that's why when you say you're going into winter, I don't feel sorry for you. I feel nothing. I'm sorry to tell you that I feel nothing for you.

Speaker 5:
[06:53] You don't know what winter is, Brian.

Speaker 3:
[06:57] That is so true.

Speaker 4:
[06:59] That is true.

Speaker 1:
[07:01] Let's jump over to British Columbia and say hello to Grant Johnson. Hello, Grant.

Speaker 5:
[07:05] Hello, everybody. It's good to be back again. And Brian was talking about the nice weather. And last week, I was looking at the weather was absolutely spectacular. We had 20 degrees Celsius, warm t-shirt weather, fantastic bikes were out. And I was looking at my bike and thinking, you know, I have a list of things that I put together that I needed to do to the bike over the winter. And I haven't done any of them. Oh, dear. Four words to that effect.

Speaker 1:
[07:36] What have you been doing all winter? What did you spend your time on?

Speaker 5:
[07:39] Oh, busy. I had some health issues that slowed me down for a bit. But things are going. I've got all our events are now open. So if you want to go to the Horizons Unlimited event, go there, get yourself scheduled, figured out, and that's all done. So my next task is to get back and start doing some work on the DRZ and on the 1200. It needs fork seals. The DRZ needs a long list of stuff. Anyway, I will be riding very soon with how to do it because this week, it's pouring rain all week.

Speaker 1:
[08:14] Oh, there's your work week right there.

Speaker 5:
[08:16] That's my work week.

Speaker 1:
[08:17] So why does your DRZ need so much work?

Speaker 5:
[08:20] It's regular servicing for a dirt bike.

Speaker 1:
[08:23] Oh, I see.

Speaker 5:
[08:24] The water hasn't been changed in five years, which is why I hate water-cooled bikes. But okay, yes, it needs a tire, and it needs a little bit of lubrication there. A few things. The seat needs a redo again. It's just a long list, the usual winter service things.

Speaker 1:
[08:42] Why don't you just drain the water out? I mean, my DR350 doesn't use any water for cooling. Drain the water out and you don't have to worry about it, forget about the water pump, forget about the rad.

Speaker 5:
[08:51] I am absolutely just sitting here, gobsmacked. What a great idea.

Speaker 1:
[08:57] Well, I'll leave that with you. And while you're working that out, let's bring in Sam Manicom, who is in the UK. Hello, Sam.

Speaker 6:
[09:03] And sitting here, absolutely gobsmacked and stunned by the amount of BS that's floating around with you two. What's going on? You made me smile, though, Grant, when you said it was 20 degrees. Last week, we were in 18 degrees Celsius days here, and yeah, the shorts and T-shirts were out, and the summer frocks, and all of that sort of stuff, and yeah, some lovely riding to be had. So it's a little bit cooler this week, but yeah, summer's coming. You know, we went out for a walk at the weekend, and just could not help going, wow, look at those flowers, and aren't those amazing? And look at all the buds coming out on all that tree. And it's, yeah, I love this time of year. It's like life is just about to go bang, because it's so full of possibilities. Yeah, I really like it.

Speaker 5:
[09:53] Yeah. Spectacular.

Speaker 1:
[09:55] And are you getting to go anywhere, Sam?

Speaker 6:
[09:58] No, not at all. Sitting here, feet stuck under my desk, my poor bike downstairs, whinging and muttering at me because I'm not riding. Don't be silly, Jim, of course I am.

Speaker 1:
[10:09] I mean, are you going on a trip?

Speaker 6:
[10:12] Yeah, I've got quite a few trips planned coming up over the coming months, but they're all shorter ones.

Speaker 1:
[10:19] Well, there's nothing wrong with that, though. I mean, it's nice to have those trips planned. I think quite often people think you've got to do a great big long trip, but short trips are fun as well.

Speaker 6:
[10:27] Oh, I totally agree. What matters is that you're getting out there and you're doing stuff. You're seeing things and doing things that are different to what you do on a normal day. Hang on. Or should that be a regular day? How many days are normal days? Let me think on this one a little bit.

Speaker 1:
[10:45] Well, for those that are planning trips, this episode will probably be very good for you because we're talking about challenging adventure rides in North America. None of us know what is going to be in here. As a matter of fact, we purposely didn't discuss it in advance. So there may be some duplication, some overlap. We'll find out about that. But these are rides that are special, that are rewarding for some reason, that challenge you in some way, the terrain, the remoteness, the weather, something that makes the ride stand out as exceptional. We're looking at exceptional rides here. I hope you guys have done that. These are exceptional rides that you have. Maybe. So we're going to talk about that, exceptional rides for one reason or another. So if you're planning for the year, this is where we're going to start. Why don't we start with you, Sam? What do you have as a, well, let's talk about one of your rides. Pick one. You don't have to pick a top one necessarily, but just talk about where this ride is.

Speaker 6:
[11:38] Okay. Well, I've got three that I'm hoping we'll get time to share. This is just the one that's sitting on the top of the pile of three. And I've chosen the North California BDR, so Backroads Discovery Route. I've not ridden it, but one day I would love to, and I've been watching this being built. And the more I see and hear about it, the more I think, yeah. One of the reasons that this BDR is ticking the boxes for me is that I've ridden some of the sections both on the tar and on the dirt that the route takes you along. But the route has opened up a huge number of possibilities. There we are. That was my brief intro into the North California BDR.

Speaker 1:
[12:20] Okay. So you haven't ridden this ride. How do you know about it?

Speaker 6:
[12:24] I've ridden chunks of it, but there's an awful lot that I haven't ridden. And I've been watching the BDR guys in the States build these most amazing routes all over the place, and just opening up the possibilities. And I love the way that they're tapping into local knowledge so much. So places like me, a visitor, are just going to ease on past on a great road, but never know that there's a phenomenal road, 50 miles to the left or right. And they're opening up all of these possibilities. And I think that makes that really special. So I've been watching this one growing. And then when it came out, I just thought, yeah, one day I would love to.

Speaker 1:
[13:06] So since it's a BDR, they have this all documented, they've got the rope put out and everything. How challenging is this? What sort of ride is it?

Speaker 6:
[13:14] They call this one a challenging ride. So having watched the film and having ridden some of the sections, what they mean by challenging is that you've got to have some skills. There are big sections where if you're a competent rider, you'll be absolutely fine with. And there are some sections which are more on the gnarly side. And I watched one or two of those and I thought, oh, I don't know if I'm good enough to ride that bit. Whether that would stop me having to go or not is another matter because I probably would have a go just to see if I could. But I think it is, it's a collection of tracks where you've got to be comfortable riding a bike on dirt.

Speaker 1:
[13:54] Right. Michelle, are you familiar with this?

Speaker 2:
[13:57] I am.

Speaker 1:
[13:58] You've ridden it before?

Speaker 2:
[13:59] I was just going to say not that I've ridden it because I am not. But I'm a huge fan of the BDR routes and the primary BDR routes they've launched. I watch all the movies when they come out that Sterling, Noren and the crew and everybody puts together and follow the BDRX routes too, which are the smaller ones that they've developed. And there was one launched a few years ago here in the Black Hills. So yeah, they put together some amazing routes. I've done sections, little sections of things, but I've never done a full BDR. Because I'm not sure, I've got riding companions, I'm not sure I would want to do them alone or that I have the technical skills to cover all of the routes. So I'd need to do some work and get myself into shape for one.

Speaker 1:
[14:48] Yeah, but isn't that the thing with the BDRs is that you can ride sections of them, right?

Speaker 2:
[14:52] Yes, absolutely. And I think they have, I know the Wyoming one had a really bad section in it that people were talking about. And on the BDR map itself, it had a work around. So it was known to be a challenging section. And they even when they were designing it, provided alternative routes to cut that section out if you wanted to. So they really do research and think and plan for different skill sets, which is fantastic.

Speaker 6:
[15:20] It's really smart, isn't it? The way they're doing the whole thing, I think tip of the helmet to the guys that have been putting these together. And from what I've seen, the work around routes, the ones that take you around the really gnarly bits. Well, they're interesting enough all on their own, aren't they? It's not as if you've suddenly been given a cake walk to ride. So yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:42] So Sam, talk about this route.

Speaker 6:
[15:45] Okay. Well, I mean, one of the reasons that I like 395 is because it starts down in California and takes you all the way up to the border with Canada. And the BDR Southern California was set up a little while back, and it stopped at a place called Benton. And so it's about halfway up California. My geography on that isn't particularly specific, but this one starts about 50 miles away from where that one ends. So you can actually now ride from the border with Mexico, Southern California BDR, Northern California BDR, and then up through Oregon and Washington to the border with Canada, which I just think is absolutely phenomenal because the Sierra Nevadas and all of the National Forests and parks and everything else, just quite phenomenal, beautiful. And there's so much history. And that's one of the reasons why I liked this route, is that they've got you dropping in to quite a few historical sites through little towns and villages that have been involved in mining or lumber or whatever along the way. So you've got a chance to sort of step back into history with these. I think I'm really struggling because I really like this route, and I don't know what to take to say first, but it takes you on a mix of mostly gravel, some sand and some asphalt roads. And it takes you through places like Mono Lake and Bodie Ghost Town, and then up into the mountains on Monter and Ebbets Passes. And you know, the Monter and Ebbets Passes, those are people who ride, the people who stick on Tar, it's just going to come away smiling from. And they actually weave those into this. But most of it is on the dirt in one form or another. And I think that what I like in particular is the mix of terrain with this, because you're going from some pretty dry riding way up high into the mountains. And I think that it's a route that has you planning, because you've got to plan for the heat as well as the cold. You've got to plan for the different riding conditions and the change in altitude, and all of those sorts of things. I mean, it's a 940-mile route.

Speaker 1:
[18:10] I was going to ask how long it was, 940 miles? That's a long route. So, is it set up with stops for motels, or would you have to camp at part of it?

Speaker 6:
[18:21] They stop you off with accommodation of one form or another. A lot of it, you've got an option to stay in a hotel, or in a lodge of some sort, or a hostel. Sometimes they're at hiking hostels in the various BDRs, but also a lot of people choose to camp. And I think I would choose to camp, because 940 miles through this sort of scenery, and they say that it takes around 6 to 7 days. I think that I would want to spend at least 10 days just because of the scenery, and because I'm the sort of person that just likes to stop and stand and go wow for half an hour, rather than 5 minutes of wow and then ride on. But that's just me and my riding style. And that's part of the beauty of the BDR. You can be who you are on it. You can make it, adapt you. And yeah, this particular one, I liked it. And I love the fact that Michelle mentions the film by Sterling Noren and the crew because they have done an absolutely cracking job with it. I asked Sterling if it would be possible to add the YouTube link for the film into the show notes. And he said, yes, of course. And he's also going to provide some pictures for the show notes from it too, which...

Speaker 1:
[19:35] Oh, very nice.

Speaker 6:
[19:36] Yeah, no, I'm really chuffed about that.

Speaker 1:
[19:38] So, Sam, when you're on one of these, one of these, let's say you did this ride, do you stop and talk with people when you see them?

Speaker 6:
[19:44] Oh, I always do.

Speaker 1:
[19:46] And it must take you forever then.

Speaker 6:
[19:51] I just get the sensation that I've been dug in the ribs.

Speaker 1:
[19:54] You just walked right into it. I was just thinking like, it's no wonder you're saying 10, 12 days. If they're saying 7, 10, 12, Sam, it's not because you're looking around at the sceneries, because you're yacking to every single person that you come across on the trail.

Speaker 6:
[20:06] I would for sure, because some of the places that these routes are taking you through, the little towns and villages and so on, what amazing people that you're going to be bumping into in these places. The local historians, for example, the people who run the cafe or the little shop that's been there for 150 years, and all of those sorts of places, that you've got to stop and talk to people, you've got to learn.

Speaker 1:
[20:33] Yeah, no, definitely. So the thing is with this, why did it make your big list? What was it about this that really catches you?

Speaker 6:
[20:40] The full mix of possibilities from it, the full mix of the different types of terrain. The fact that a lot of it is comfortably doable, but there are sections where you're going to be really challenged. I love dry riding, but I also love altitude and phenomenal views. And this route gives you that wonderful mix. I mean, can you imagine standing on top of a mountaintop, thousands of feet high, and just looking out over a landscape that looks like it goes on forever? Those viewpoints are just awesome. And to have got there on your bike and be standing there, total peace and quiet with nobody else around, except for you and your mates, all going, wow, that's the sort of stuff that this route does.

Speaker 1:
[21:26] Sam, this one's easy for us. All we have to do is put the link in for that route. So that's a great choice. Okay, that's wonderful. Michelle, what's one you have? A great, sorry, I don't think I said, this is supposed to be North America, did I? I don't think I said that at the start. No, and that's what it is supposed to be. These are challenging rides, adventure rides in North America. And I should have been more clear about that at the start. So they're the rides that are going to have, hopefully some sort of mix of dirt and asphalt. If not, I guess more dirt.

Speaker 6:
[21:55] Sorry, Michelle. Before Michelle starts, there's something else that you didn't say. You didn't say that the advice to us was that we didn't actually have to have ridden a route, but we had to know about it and know it well.

Speaker 1:
[22:07] Thank you, Sam. That is true. That's right. And what that does is that opens things up for us. Because like, for instance, that first one that you come across, you haven't ridden it, but obviously it really intrigues you. And obviously if it intrigues you, it's going to intrigue a lot of other people. So, yep, good point.

Speaker 2:
[22:22] That's the hope.

Speaker 1:
[22:37] Michelle?

Speaker 2:
[22:38] Oh, yeah. No, I've got a list of all sorts of goodies, some that I've ridden and some that I have on my wishlist. One of the top ones that came to mind, and I haven't ridden the whole thing, but I've ridden a chunk of it, is the Continental Divide Trail, the Continental Divide Ride. And officially, it starts, I think, near Banff in Canada, and runs all the way down into the US, the length of the Rocky Mountains, and ends near the Mexican border in New Mexico. So-

Speaker 4:
[23:11] You've written a part of that. That's great. That's fantastic.

Speaker 6:
[23:14] I've written some of it, too.

Speaker 2:
[23:16] It really is. In total, it's 2,700 miles. I've ridden 800 miles of it, so not even a third of it, which is amazing. And the year that I did it, it's been a number of years. A couple of women friends and I met. They did the whole ride, but I could only get a week off of work. I know I've shared this story before. So I tried to squeeze as many miles into that week as I could, but they didn't want to be rushed along and I didn't want to rush them. So all I was able to get done in that week, a vacation that I had was 800 miles. And so I joined them in southwestern Montana road, a little bit of Montana, the Idaho section, the Wyoming section, and then crossed into Colorado for a few hours of riding in Colorado before I had to turn home. But as you can imagine, oh, and it really was, as you can imagine, the continental divide implies that you're up in the mountains and you are. You obviously aren't right on the tops of all of those mountain peaks, but route is designed to keep you at higher elevation and try and trace and follow the continental divide itself, the watershed. So you're riding through parts of Yellowstone National Park, Glacier National Park or near that in Western Montana. So you are in the heart of this incredible mountainous landscape for 2,700 miles, crossing high plains, Great Basin of Wyoming is one of those high plains, and it's just a really unusual landscape. But you're surrounded by mountain tops and mountain peaks and gorgeous scenery for the whole length of it. It is largely off-road and by off-road, I should say it's actually gravel. The vast majority of it is gravel. And so for me to plan the route that I did, I purchased a set of maps actually from a bicycling organization that puts together the map set. It was a set of maps for the route. And then use those as a guideline. There are a couple of sections, ones famously up by Butte, Montana, that especially if they've had any kind of rain, it's kind of a rugged, gnarly section. I have some Canadian friends who've ridden it on motorcycles and they had warned me about that section beforehand. And as it turned out, I didn't even go that far into Montana. I was south of there before I joined my friends for the ride. So I didn't have to work around that section. But it is-

Speaker 1:
[25:44] I'm wondering what those cyclists would say if they knew you're buying their map for a motorcycle ride. I'm just wondering if it's that type of thing that makes the cyclists roll their eyes and go, oh, not motorcycles or dirt bikes, they may think.

Speaker 2:
[25:57] Maybe. And we- that was the thing. I saw lots and lots of bicyclists doing it. It must be really popular with the peddlers. So there were tons of people. And actually, as we saw some of them out in some of the drier, more remote areas, and I know they can't cover as many miles. I was handing off granola bars and extra water and making sure that they were stocked up along the way. But like Sam, I like to stop and have a good chin wag, a good chat. So I stopped and chatted with a lot of people along the way. So it's a spectacular ride.

Speaker 1:
[26:32] That reminds me of an email that came in the other day. Somebody was on, I think his name was Brian. I hope I've got that right. And I think he was in Wyoming, Teton Mountains. But he was camping while he wrote this email. And he said he's sitting back having a little bite to eat and a little shot of whiskey, and just saying thank you so much for the stories and inspiration. And he sent me some photographs and said, and this is the line I want to tell you, but really was, he said, and by the way, you guys were right about the people. He mentioned something about that he'd been traveling around his state, and it was amazing how the motorcycle starts conversations and allows him to meet wonderful people. So that's pretty neat. That's inspirational as well. I want to ask you about this Continental Divide Route ride though. So what is this? Is this is not a BDR? Where do you find the information for this?

Speaker 2:
[27:21] Well, online, there's lots of ride reports about it on advrider.com. You can do different research for it. Since I purchased those bicycling maps from the Adventure Cycling Association, that at the time was, when I bought those maps, was probably a decade or more ago, because I bought them before I did the route, because it was kind of a dream route. And I thought, oh, I want to scout it out. I had had them for a couple of years before I actually wrote it. And there might be a different, I don't know if Butler Maps does them. I don't know who does them, but I know there's a lot of information out there, because it is, you know, it's not an uncommon route. A lot of people ride it.

Speaker 1:
[28:02] You bought them a decade ago. You wrote them more recently?

Speaker 2:
[28:06] No, I wrote it, was it eight years ago? Nine years ago?

Speaker 1:
[28:10] Oh, I was just a kid then.

Speaker 2:
[28:12] Yeah, right, you and me both.

Speaker 1:
[28:16] Sorry, Sam, you were saying something?

Speaker 6:
[28:18] No, I was just saying, Michelle, if you ever fancy riding partners to do the rest, give us a shout. If I'm ever over in the States, you're on.

Speaker 2:
[28:25] I would love that, Sam. Thank you.

Speaker 6:
[28:28] That would be so much fun, isn't it? Yeah. Isn't there a book about a guy who backpacked this route and there's another one about a guy who cycled it? And there are several really interesting books. And I read the one about the guy who backpacked it. I'm trying to remember the name.

Speaker 1:
[28:46] So this is a general travel route. So people are doing it with four by fours, bicycles, all different things, right?

Speaker 2:
[28:52] Yeah. So it's kind of, I mean, as happens with like the BDR routes and some of the other adventure routes, the Trans Wisconsin, that, you know, well, I won't start naming names because I don't want to take anything that anybody else has given for a route. But they're usually a collection and assemblage of maybe some paved sections, some fire trails, some forest service roads. But yeah, this is, this is roads. Some of it is just single lane forest road, fire trails, et cetera. But it is, it's established roads.

Speaker 1:
[29:26] And what is super challenging about this route?

Speaker 2:
[29:31] Because it is largely gravel and some of it is in dirt. It can be muddy. It depends on the year that you have. So if there's a lot of snowpack or snowmelt, if there's rain, you have to be prepared for that. It is very remote in the sections from vamps down into, I think as far as Pinedale, Wyoming, it's grizzly bear country. The sections that I rode had a lot of grizzly warning signs all over. I mean, posted signs about grizzly activity. It has a really short riding season, so it's best ridden from July to maybe mid-September, because even in June, some of the sections of it are still impassable, because if you're up at high elevation, you're still in snowpack. And it can close again by mid to late September, because again, snow is coming in, so it's got a super short window. It's obviously, if you do the whole thing, it's a lot of miles, 2,700 miles, and it can be pretty physically challenging. The friend of mine from Canmore area, I think he and his friends did it over the course of like two weeks to 15, 16 days, something like that. My friends who did it, the two women, took just about a month to do it, the whole thing. But again, they wanted to do a leisurely pace and they'd have a day off here and there to explore a town somewhere in the mountains. So it's a time commitment too.

Speaker 1:
[30:57] Brian, you've written it. You said a bit of it?

Speaker 4:
[31:01] Oh, yeah. Look, when we came up from South America, we wanted to follow the ridgeline all the way up into, as far as we could, through the Rockies and that sort of stuff. And I love that part of the world. But I've gone a different route. I've chosen smaller highway roads, which one that sticks out to me is the top of the world highway. Now, I don't know, you guys might have done it, but we just loved it. And we crossed the border. I'm just trying to think of that little border crossing, surely I think it's Poker Creek near here. That was quite good. But the road itself is all gravel, and it runs on a ridge line all the way down to the Yukon River, where you get on this ferry to cross over to Dawson City. We did it that way, didn't we, Cheryl? And you go through a little place called Chicken, which has a lovely sign, which says, I got laid in Chicken, Alaska, which wasn't true.

Speaker 1:
[32:07] But, oh, dear, why?

Speaker 3:
[32:09] We did only stop for coffee, Brian.

Speaker 6:
[32:12] Coffee, we had coffee. Shirley, did you sharpen your elbows before the show started?

Speaker 3:
[32:21] I wasn't prepared for that one, was I?

Speaker 4:
[32:24] But, you know, it's a well maintained gravel road. Yeah, there's steep drop-offs and don't get too exuberant, but we were scooting along it, you know, 60 mile an hour on the dirt and having a bit of fun.

Speaker 3:
[32:37] And I didn't have to walk any of it.

Speaker 1:
[32:40] No, I didn't have to walk it. It's a good sign.

Speaker 3:
[32:43] Well, it is a good sign, Jim. I have walked some of the best roads of the world.

Speaker 4:
[32:50] No, but you come down to the Yukon River and there's this ferry and the Yukon is a fast-flowing river. And I remember getting on that ferry where the ferry master had to have it on full throttle to go against the current so we could all get on. Not that there was many officers there.

Speaker 3:
[33:13] There are also freezers in Wintour, the river is the highway, not the ferry. But I wouldn't like to be the first or last car, truck, bike across the one that's listening for the crack of the ice that hasn't been quite solidified as much as it should be because I'm thinking the water, apart from it flowing so swiftly would be terribly brisk.

Speaker 4:
[33:37] Well, there was a local who lived on the other side of the river from Dawson City, who apparently was the brave soul that was the first one to drive to test, crash test dummy to ride across the drive across the ice. So, no, we didn't do it in the ice. And of course, it's a summer road. But, you know, I remember we crossed the border. It was a little, really little border crossing, wasn't it, Shirley? Out in the middle of nowhere. And yeah, it was two people working the border crossing. But yeah, loved it. And it's not that far. It's, I think it's 127 kilometers, but a great little ride.

Speaker 3:
[34:22] It is very beautiful up the top. And I remember the day we did it, the sun was shining and it really was quite glorious. And Dawson City is one of the most interesting towns. It's just, it's quite extraordinary town where you can drink, drink with the petrified toe in the bottom of your glass.

Speaker 2:
[34:41] The sour toe cocktail, they call it.

Speaker 3:
[34:43] The sour toe cocktail, yeah. You can drink it fast, you can drink it slow, but the lips must touch the toe.

Speaker 1:
[34:51] Is it a real toe though? Oh, did you ever get any feces?

Speaker 3:
[34:54] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:55] It's a real toe.

Speaker 2:
[34:56] There's quite the story there. I think there were originally four, and so they reused them. They are petrified toes and they put them in this martini glass or glass or whatever and it's supposed to touch your lips, but somebody accidentally swallowed one. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:
[35:13] That's really putting your foot in your mouth.

Speaker 6:
[35:15] I was told that the guy accidentally swallowed it. He did it on a dare.

Speaker 2:
[35:20] Oh, I hadn't heard that.

Speaker 1:
[35:21] Well, I can imagine that. Well, that's what I thought right off the bat. I thought somebody's going to swallow it just so they can say that they did. But so where do they get that? Like, what are there a bunch of people walking around with no toe there?

Speaker 3:
[35:31] And there are people that have been toe donations. Apparently, the story is that right?

Speaker 1:
[35:35] They live in chicken, I'll bet.

Speaker 3:
[35:37] Yeah. But I mean, apart from the Sour Toe cocktail, just the buildings and the ones that were built on the permafrost and are now got a very jaunty lean to them. And the old dance halls and stuff that they've recreated. It's just a fun, fun place. And it's the first place we ever saw the Northern Lights.

Speaker 4:
[36:04] It's just a great little ride, that road. And it's a lot of history around there. A lot of gold history. The guys who bought the old bank and then decided to rip up the floorboards and vacuum and got enough gold to pay for what they'd outlaid.

Speaker 1:
[36:22] Wow, I haven't heard that.

Speaker 3:
[36:25] That's how the story goes.

Speaker 1:
[36:27] Right, yeah. Well, it's all built on, I mean, that history is all gold rush history, isn't it? That's why it's there.

Speaker 3:
[36:32] That's right.

Speaker 4:
[36:33] That's right. And the permafrost makes life interesting. And I love the roads up through there because they are interesting rides, you know, and it's quite remote. What was another one up there, Shirley?

Speaker 3:
[36:46] Well, you're only allowed one, that's enough.

Speaker 4:
[36:47] Oh, sorry.

Speaker 1:
[36:49] You know what, I was curious about-

Speaker 6:
[36:51] Jim, you sounded just like Shirley, then.

Speaker 3:
[36:58] Someone's got to keep him in check.

Speaker 1:
[37:00] I was interested in the grizzlies because Michelle mentioned the grizzlies and that sort of went by, and nobody said anything, but I'm thinking, I haven't experienced this before, but what is the protocol for riding a motorcycle and being chased by a grizzly? Like, how do you handle that? Speed up, slow down, kick at it, speed at it. What do you do?

Speaker 4:
[37:18] We've got a photo of us on a bridge with a grizzly walking down the road beside us. And, you know, like this.

Speaker 3:
[37:25] It's in a national park.

Speaker 4:
[37:26] It's in a national park.

Speaker 1:
[37:27] Oh, they're friendly though, in the park. You can pet them.

Speaker 3:
[37:33] They had lots of signs in the park that if one came, if a bear came to your campground, bang your saucepan lids, which would be handy if you had saucepans, which when you're camping on a bike, we didn't have saucepans, let alone saucepan lids. And they also tell you to get in your car and lock the door. Well, that's fine too if you have one.

Speaker 4:
[37:56] A lot of cars, everybody in their cars, doors shut, windows up, and here we are on the bike. So, walking down by the road about six feet away from us.

Speaker 3:
[38:08] I bet every one of those cars that could see us in their mirrors was videoing on their phones. So, they would have the video of the two idiots on the motorcycle being devoured by the bear.

Speaker 1:
[38:17] You remember Jassic Park and the goat? Yeah. That's the motorcyclist. I mean, they probably know that. The people who drive cars up there probably wait for it. Oh, look, we've got a bike rider here. Let's get them between us.

Speaker 3:
[38:32] I think that's right, Jim. We could get money out of this video.

Speaker 1:
[38:35] That's right. Okay, so Shirley, what's yours?

Speaker 3:
[38:41] Well, mine is the Dalton Highway in Alaska. Because sitting on the back, I get a different perspective of challenging. And very challenging is when I have to walk. And having that extra weight on the back, I can understand that. The number of times I've been told to sit still and shut up is another indication that the road is getting challenging. But that didn't happen on the Dalton. And it's kind of special for me because we were traveling with really good friends that we'd made on the road. And it was cold and it was bleak the day we left Fairbanks, Alaska. This road goes from Fairbanks up to Prudhoe Bay, to the town of Dead Horse, right on the Arctic Ocean. And there's nothing out there. The road was only built in the 70s and it was built to service the, I think it's an oil pipeline. And there's a couple of mining towns, which will possibly be the most expensive accommodation a motorcyclist will ever have to face, or you can camp. And we camped at the Marion Creek Campground, which was...

Speaker 4:
[39:56] The Arctic Circle.

Speaker 3:
[39:57] Yeah, it was above the Arctic Circle, I think, or maybe just near it. But there's a big sign to take your photo near the, at the Arctic Circle. The tundra, amazing wildlife meandering past the bears. We saw bears on that road and...

Speaker 4:
[40:13] Musk ox.

Speaker 3:
[40:14] Musk ox, musk ox. And yes, it was just, it's permafrost. So it's not, neither fish nor fowl nor good red herring, really, is it?

Speaker 2:
[40:25] It's, you wouldn't call it.

Speaker 4:
[40:27] Well, it's like, almost like riding on firm jelly. Everything moves. And I know a lot of people in America want to ride it or have ridden it, but to us, it was really something special to ride on that road.

Speaker 3:
[40:44] And to ride in, it was the middle of summer and it was, but it was still awfully cold. And we also discovered on that trip, that the trap of the midnight sun, we stayed at the Marion Campground on Marion Creek on the way up and on the way back. And at one occasion was a, we were celebrating the birthday of one of our fellow travelers and having a couple of chilled refreshes, shall I say. And we looked at the watch and thought, perhaps we should actually think about eating now, considering it is 10.30. And it was still broad daylight. And the people who were camping near us were possibly-

Speaker 4:
[41:27] Bitmiffed.

Speaker 3:
[41:28] Yeah, I think a bitmiffed is probably one way of putting it when you've got the-

Speaker 4:
[41:33] Rourke's boat, right?

Speaker 3:
[41:35] We had the Europeans, the Australians, a Floridian, and we had a great time. But it's a beautiful, as a challenging piece of road, I think it would be challenging for the rider, Brian. Oh, yeah. It's really interesting for me that you go for so far, it's what, 600 Ks, something like that. And you really don't see towns per se, but you see, well, you don't see towns. But a couple of mining camps, the pipeline, the wildlife, and when you get to Deadhorse, you stay in the mining camp and eat the miners' food, and you're not allowed to go out to the Arctic Ocean on your own. You have to go out in a bus, which in itself is very theatrical, because the bus driver gets off and says, please do not get off the bus until I make sure there are no polar bears. And we all sit on the bus and he gets out and looks around and says, it is safe, we may all go down to the water now. And I thought, yeah, that really is an overreaction until I discovered that polar bears do think of humans as a food group.

Speaker 4:
[42:40] And they actually do close the mine site when the polar bear comes in, because whether there is climate change or not, who knows, but the ice cap is melting and the polar bears are coming in. So there have been a couple of days where they're actually closed. But, you know, a great ride, one that I'd do again, if we ever get into that part of the world.

Speaker 3:
[43:06] And for we little Aussies, it felt like a real achievement to get to the Arctic Ocean and to camp above the Arctic Circle and to ride along the side of the road with a bit of a bear meandering down the side of the road.

Speaker 4:
[43:21] But what I haven't done is to dimpster, which I'd like to do that, the other one.

Speaker 1:
[43:24] Oh, hang on, Brian. We're not talking about what you haven't done. We're talking about things that we should do here. Don't get sidetracked here. Now, you know what? I'm curious with this ride on the Dalton. Was it any different on the way back than on the way up? Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[43:40] It was right on the change of season when the fireweed was changing. So yeah, it was a bit colder, but you're sort of used to riding on this firm jelly. So probably a little quicker, actually.

Speaker 1:
[43:56] Oh, you get more comfortable.

Speaker 3:
[43:59] I know it sounds odd, but things do look different when you're coming at them from a different angle.

Speaker 6:
[44:04] Yeah, don't they just?

Speaker 3:
[44:05] There's a pass called the Addigan Pass, and when you come up to it from the North side, it is different from when you come up to it from the Fairbank side.

Speaker 1:
[44:16] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[44:17] But who cares? It's a great piece of road, if you're going to, and there really is no alternative, Jim, than to come back the same way.

Speaker 1:
[44:25] The reason I'm asking is how different it is on the way back. I know weather can change it incredibly. So if you get some weather blow in, that's going to change the thing into a whole different ride. But what I was curious about is, because it's so open, do you really feel like you're just repeating the same thing, or do you feel like you're seeing something different? It's nice to hear that you had a different perspective on the way back.

Speaker 3:
[44:46] Yeah, I think it's a different perspective.

Speaker 4:
[44:48] Yeah, it's very different. And even the trees, watching the stunted growth of the trees because of the climate up there, you'll see something that's six foot high and it's 40 years old. Stuff like that is really, really interesting.

Speaker 3:
[45:03] And very different for our home rides.

Speaker 1:
[45:07] Grant, have you ridden the Dalton?

Speaker 5:
[45:09] Yes, I have. Yeah, it's a fantastic ride. Two up is definitely harder than solo.

Speaker 1:
[45:16] It's a little tricky. Were you working a fair bit on the ride?

Speaker 5:
[45:23] Yeah, you're paying attention and it's slippery. It was really wet when we went up. And there was points where the road is crowned. So you start kind of middle of the road and a mile or two down the road. You're at the edge of the road now because you've been slowly sliding down the crown. And then you have to re-point your way back up to the high point again and it slide back down again. It's interesting on street tires. It would have been a lot better if we'd had dual sport or knobby tires or something. But we did it on street tires and it was okay. It was a challenge. We are very glad we did it. We thought it was very spectacular. Susan got a little bit tired of the kind of the same same. I'd rather have trees, but I really liked the openness and the wildness of it. You could see caribou several kilometers away in the distance.

Speaker 4:
[46:18] Me too, Grant.

Speaker 5:
[46:19] Yeah, it was really different. I really liked it. I would do it again, but I'm more thinking I want to do the Dempster next. Same as Brian.

Speaker 4:
[46:28] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[46:29] Well, Grant, we'll go over to you. What do you have?

Speaker 5:
[46:35] Well, I'm going to be a bit of a British Columbia fanboy. British Columbia is the area in North America that I know best. I could talk about the Pyrenees or a few other places in the world, but in Canada, North America, British Columbia is my home. I've lived here most of my life, not all of it. And there's just so much here. I think it's a very underappreciated area. A lot of people say, oh, Alaska. Well, you can get to Alaska via British Columbia and there are nice, easy, straight roads and easy ways to get to there. But there is so much here. It's just absolutely amazing. What people don't realize is how big British Columbia is. It's bigger than every state in the US except Alaska. Think about that for a moment. It's big and it's bigger than every European country. It's the size of Germany, France and the Netherlands combined. So it's not a small place and there are, brace yourself, 719,000 kilometers of roads and 92% of it's unpaved.

Speaker 1:
[47:48] So which road are you talking about exactly?

Speaker 5:
[47:52] Which one would you like?

Speaker 1:
[47:54] You're highlighting an entire province here.

Speaker 5:
[47:57] I know I am. And I would invite anybody to come here and spend the summer because there is so much.

Speaker 1:
[48:06] But okay, if you had to narrow it down, what would you highlight? Where would you send them?

Speaker 5:
[48:12] To see the sky highway, Highway 99 is pretty spectacular. Oh, don't the ice fields, Parkway Highway 93.

Speaker 1:
[48:21] Oh, that's quite a spread though. That's quite a spread. They're not close together.

Speaker 5:
[48:25] No, they're not. Well, there's highway 93 is amazing. Yes. There's also Highway 16, which goes to Bella Coola and five A's amazing. Oh, yeah. Highway three goes across the southern part of the province. Three A's really cool. And oh, and don't forget, 33 is good. I love Highway five.

Speaker 1:
[48:49] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[48:51] There's a highway that went through the Fraser County. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[48:53] So we're...

Speaker 3:
[48:55] British Columbia Tourist Bureau, a question for you.

Speaker 5:
[48:58] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[48:59] What's the Highway of Tears, Grant?

Speaker 4:
[49:01] Highway of Tears, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[49:01] I can't remember the number.

Speaker 5:
[49:03] You mean the Trail of Tears? That's a US thing.

Speaker 3:
[49:05] No, the Highway of Tears where a lot of...

Speaker 1:
[49:08] Native women have disappeared. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[49:10] Disappeared.

Speaker 5:
[49:11] Yeah, I don't want to comment on that.

Speaker 3:
[49:13] Well, that is a very sad story to the road.

Speaker 5:
[49:15] There is indeed.

Speaker 3:
[49:16] But the road itself is through a beautiful countryside. Absolutely fantastic countryside.

Speaker 5:
[49:21] Yeah, that's quite nice.

Speaker 4:
[49:23] What about Vancouver Island? That's pretty good, too, even just cruising around there.

Speaker 5:
[49:27] Yeah, there's a lot there. There's all kinds of stuff on there. What I would talk about is the Sea to Sky Highways, Highway 99 and the Duffy Lake Road through to Lillooet.

Speaker 6:
[49:39] Gorgeous.

Speaker 5:
[49:40] Start in Vancouver, and this is a pavement route with some lovely offshoots into the middle of nowhere, really. So Highway 99 is also known as the Sea to Sky Highway. That goes to Whistler Ski Resort, which a lot of people may have heard about. It's one of the big resorts in the world. And it's probably one of my all-time favorite rides, probably maybe because it was my first, literally my first away from home in the city rides when I was just starting riding at 16. It's still awesome. I lived along at Whistler when I was living in Whistler. It's amazing. Much of it is carved out of a cliff, sheer drops to the ocean and high mountains on the other side. It's steep. It's twisty. It is not to be risen casually or sloppily. Unfortunately, there are some heavily policed sections through town, so be careful.

Speaker 1:
[50:34] You said unfortunately.

Speaker 5:
[50:37] Well, it is unfortunate that it's heavily policed. When I started riding, it was basically open season, shall we say. Speed was not an issue.

Speaker 1:
[50:49] But there's not much of that highway that you're getting very fast. Like maybe if you get down towards Vancouver, there's some stretch along there. But most of it, you're not going all that fast.

Speaker 5:
[50:57] I've ridden it recently. Let's just say you could get up to some serious, licensed, losing forever speeds in a number of places. But there's also some very twisty bits and some... It's just a fantastic motorcycle road. The scenery is spectacular. You've got mountains on one side. You've got the sound on the other side, ocean, mountains in the distance. Everything's got snow on the peaks all year round. It's truly spectacular. And it's just a fun, fun road.

Speaker 1:
[51:29] So distance-wise or in length of time?

Speaker 5:
[51:32] Well, you can do this in the sky to Whistler in about an hour and a half if you're in a hurry. I don't recommend it. Two hours is probably sane.

Speaker 1:
[51:41] Yeah, but it's only partway.

Speaker 5:
[51:42] So that gets you to Whistler. But from Whistler, we keep going to Pemberton, which is a little town, nice place to stop for lunch and have a break. And then you hang a right basically and head east on the Duffy Lake Road, which continues more of the same really beautiful mountain road. Not as much water, you don't have the view over the ocean, but it's just mountain roads, twisty, tight. And you're going from a temperate rainforest on the coast up into the high desert country in the South Chilcotin. It's the change in weather, climate, seasons, temperature is really amazing, but it's really cool. So you end up in the town of Lillooet, sorry, the town of Lytton, which burned to the ground in 2021.

Speaker 1:
[52:35] Oh, that's right.

Speaker 5:
[52:37] It burned, the whole town burned to the ground. And it was just a few days after they had their temperature record, 122 degrees Fahrenheit, 47 Celsius. Wow. 122, 49.7 Celsius is what it was.

Speaker 1:
[52:56] It's always hot there. I know that's a real peak, but it's always hot. Like in the summertime, the wind hits you with this heat, like Arizona. It's like that sort of heat.

Speaker 5:
[53:05] It's like opening the oven door and sticking your head in for half an hour. It's hot.

Speaker 6:
[53:10] I knew you were bringing back so many wonderful memories because I wrote this last year when I went to Horizons at Cannes West, and that's the route that I followed back around to Whistler and then down into Vancouver. And I'm sitting here with the biggest grin.

Speaker 5:
[53:25] Isn't that an amazing road?

Speaker 6:
[53:27] Awesome.

Speaker 5:
[53:28] Yep, it's definitely one you must have on your list. So you end up in Lytton, and from Lytton, you can either go left to Alaska, you can go east and right across Canada. It'll just take you a week or two. Or you can go south and end up back in Vancouver. Now, from Vancouver to Whistler to Pemberton to Lytton and back down the Fraser Canyon to Vancouver is 502 or something kilometers. And you can do it in a day. So it's an awesome day ride. If you want to do a paved road, but if you want some dirt, that's where it gets interesting. In Pemberton, you can have a choice of two dirt routes, old, old dirt roads. The High Line and the Hurley are two routes from the coast. And they are highly recommended for scenic views. You're up into the high mountain country there. It's all mountain gravel roads. The High Line will take you through to Mount Currie, Birken, Darcy, which are old indigenous villages. And I think Darcy, if I remember rightly, is actually gold mining once upon a time. And you get through to Braylorne and other places like that. It's scenic. It's definitely interesting gravel roads. I mean, you can do it on a four by four. No problem. You could even do it in a car. But you might not want to do it in your brand new shiny car. It's that kind of a road.

Speaker 1:
[54:59] A lot of chunks of rocks and things like that on the road. A lot of drop offs close to the edge. It'll make you kind of queasy if you've got a vehicle come the other way and you're on the outside.

Speaker 5:
[55:08] Oh yeah. It's a single lane road most of the way. So you want to be careful. The other route is the Hurley, which is a really old road to the gold mines of Braylorne and... I can't remember. There's another one there. Gold Bridge.

Speaker 1:
[55:26] Gold Bridge.

Speaker 5:
[55:27] There's another one. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:28] That's a dead end route. You got to turn around and come back out.

Speaker 5:
[55:31] No, you don't. You can go right through. You can go... I did the Hurley two years ago.

Speaker 1:
[55:34] Not if you go up into Braden, though. I'm thinking if you go right into Braden. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[55:38] Braden. Yeah. That's a dead end. Yeah. But going past Braylorne, you can keep on going and you end up at Anderson Lake and Carpenter Lake and all that. I first rode this in 1982 on a brand new stock BMW R100S. It was a bit of a workout, but it was my first real adventure ride, I guess you could say, gravel road, high mountain and on a street bike with rib front tire and the whole bit. But you'd be much happier on an adventure bike. I mean, I did it and it was okay. And I did it in a day. Absolutely spectacular. Beautiful scenery, glacier fed blue green lakes and rivers all over the place. You'll see wild sheep and moose and deer. Definitely black bears and there are grizzlies occasionally, but rare, mostly black bears. Spectacular, well worth doing, both of them. The Hurley is more rugged route than the Highline. I prefer the Highline just because the Hurley is so rough, despite its great scenery. It just beats you up. But if you want to challenge, go for it. Once you get up there, you're into Anderson Lake where there's some free campsites. And this is a friend of mine's who's been riding all over British Columbia his most of his life and he's been retired for 15 years and does nothing but ride all summer long. And this is his absolute favorite place to ride. Free campsites. Imagine that free campsites with toilets.

Speaker 1:
[57:13] These are hydro campsites.

Speaker 5:
[57:15] Hydro campsites, yeah. Yeah. And there is so much riding from there. I mean, you could spend the summer riding there and doing nothing else. It's just amazing. There's so much. So in the area, there's one issue is gas. Gold Bridge is the only place in the area that has gas. And they usually have gas, but they very occasionally run dry for a day. Last time I was up there, they ran dry. So make sure you don't arrive in Gold Bridge on fumes. You'll be in trouble. That's the main thing. If you want to talk about the challenge, it's lots of gravel. It goes on and on and on. It's dusty, steep roads, dangerous as Jim just said. Yep, there's some steep, great drop-offs, and it's narrow, and it's twisty, and you got to be careful. Pay attention.

Speaker 1:
[58:09] And most of this, you do not want to ride at night.

Speaker 5:
[58:12] No, good grief.

Speaker 1:
[58:13] This is not roads you want to ride at night. That's just insane. Because some of the roads there that you're talking about, like I said, they got chunks of rock and stuff that fall down regularly on the road, and to ride at night would just be insane.

Speaker 5:
[58:25] Yeah. And I've seen a number of small slides and had to pick my way through them. It happens for sure. I mean, the roads are well maintained. People, the local people go through there in their cars, but you've got to pay attention and be prepared to clear the road. Cars, the car drivers have to clear the road or they aren't going to get through. It happens often.

Speaker 1:
[58:46] They're the dangerous ones that you have to watch because they're so used to the roads. They boot down them like they're in a subdivision or something like that. It's kind of unbelievable.

Speaker 5:
[58:55] Yeah. You really have to watch for cars coming out of the way. Definitely, this is a seriously ride right situation and pay attention and go slow on the blind corners. And there's lots of them, lots and lots and lots of them. The traffic isn't bad during the week. I personally would not go there on the weekend. Just nope, nope. But midweek, fine. I love it up there in the midweek. So yeah, it's beautiful, it's spectacular. And you can go right through from there to Lytton and out. And there's lots of routes to go from there. So you could spend a lot of time in the area.

Speaker 1:
[59:30] Yeah, I think that's a really good pick because I think there's a lot in there. Like you said, a lot of asphalt if you just want to ride asphalt. But if you want dirt and you're a little adventurous, it's kind of endless, isn't it? You just go forever.

Speaker 5:
[59:43] Forever. You can go from Anderson Lake. There is a road that goes all the way up to Highway 16, which is, I forget how many miles it is, but it's probably four or 500 miles north. So yeah, how much off road do you want? All you can possibly imagine.

Speaker 1:
[60:16] Michelle, have you ridden in this area?

Speaker 2:
[60:19] I have a little bit, but I haven't done the route that Grant is talking about. In British Columbia, it's breathtaking. I was lucky enough to be a presenter at the HU, Cannes West. Oh gosh, it's been a number of years ago, but took advantage of a couple weeks of playing around in BC. I've been up to that part of the country a few times, and it's spectacular.

Speaker 1:
[60:45] Yeah, there's no doubt. I totally get all excited just hearing you talk about it. You probably tell. I just get excited because I just think it's such an amazing spot to ride. And because you just mentioned Cannes West there, when is Cannes West, Grant?

Speaker 5:
[60:58] That is in July. I just had a complete brain fart here, July 9 to 12.

Speaker 1:
[61:05] July 9 to 12. So what a great excuse, because it's like that is in the heart of great riding area. What a great excuse to have a destination. Go to Cannes West or our planet. I'd probably go there first and explore afterwards. That'd probably be the safest thing, wouldn't it?

Speaker 5:
[61:21] Yeah, I think so. For one thing, you'll talk to a lot of people there who live in the area, and they can point out on a paper map right in front of you, here's where you want to go, like we did with Sam. That's a good point. There's some just great places to see, and you'll meet up with guys that you can ride back with. I mean, from Cannes West, you can take Highway 6 is an absolutely spectacular, fantastic, wonderful motorcycle road to go to Vernon from the Cusp. You can go south. In fact, one of our California organizers came to the event two years ago, I think it was, and he'd never been to Canada, and he said that that road up to the Cusp from the US border was one of the best roads he's ever ridden in his life. He just couldn't believe how good it was. So that's the Nelson. What's the road? I can't even remember what the road number is now, but it's beautiful and you're not very far. You're an hour or two away from the Columbia Ice Park, the Icefield Parkway. It's just endless.

Speaker 6:
[62:21] Jasper and Banff and all of those places not far away as well, haven't you? It's just a hop and a skip to all of them. I tell you what, if you can get a three month visa for Canada, you could spend three months of it, all of it in British Columbia alone, couldn't you? Very easily.

Speaker 5:
[62:37] Easily, easily. Yeah. It's really interesting to take a look at British Columbia with Google Maps set to the, I forget what they call it, the terrain view or the satellite view.

Speaker 2:
[62:50] Satellite, yep.

Speaker 5:
[62:51] Satellite view. You look at that, you go, oh my goodness. It's solid mountains. That's all there is. They're not little mountains, they're big mountains. It's skill level? Central Plateau. Skill level for the Highline and the Hurley, I wouldn't take a beginner on it, on anything. You want to be at least comfortable on gravel roads. Yeah, you got to be comfortable on gravel roads. Yep, gravel, yep, fine, no worries, and you should be fine. There's nothing terribly difficult, although once you get to the Anderson Lake and Carpenter Lake areas and you start heading up into the mountains, it can get really seriously technical. You got to Poison Mountain, for instance, and that is a hard ride. There's a number of routes that are difficult.

Speaker 1:
[63:40] But that's dirt and the rest of the highway you were talking about was all asphalt, right?

Speaker 5:
[63:44] Oh yeah, all asphalt, for sure.

Speaker 1:
[63:48] So for the asphalt, just normal ride, if you ride your motorcycle, you're good on it. But if you get into the other stuff that you're talking about, then you have to have more advanced riding skills.

Speaker 5:
[63:56] Yes, absolutely. The Highline and the Hurley, not a problem if you're comfortable on gravel road. Off of there, then you're going to be stepping up your skills. There's lots to see.

Speaker 1:
[64:10] Great, great pick. I really like that. So Brian, how about you?

Speaker 4:
[64:16] Well, I just ripped up my notes because most of my BC.

Speaker 3:
[64:22] Thanks very much.

Speaker 5:
[64:23] You should have known better, Brian. Obviously, I'm going to be talking to him.

Speaker 1:
[64:28] He was counting on you giving a route, and you took the whole province, you greedy person.

Speaker 3:
[64:33] Exactly right.

Speaker 5:
[64:35] That's it.

Speaker 4:
[64:36] We're done.

Speaker 3:
[64:37] So it's obviously a bit of favoritism here with the Canadians.

Speaker 1:
[64:41] No, no, not at all.

Speaker 3:
[64:43] Everyone else was allowed one ride.

Speaker 5:
[64:47] Hey, I've got more in BC to talk about too. There's the Kootenays and there's the Corridor Patrol.

Speaker 1:
[64:52] Hang on, I'm going to have to mute him now.

Speaker 4:
[64:54] We'll hit the match show. See, the Icefield Parkway, Highway 99. I've got them all listed here.

Speaker 3:
[65:00] Thank you, Highway. And I took the Dalton, so Brian's stuffed.

Speaker 1:
[65:06] So Brian, out of that list that you have for BC, which one is the one that takes you the most? I don't want to say your favorite, but the one that you find the most notable for some reason.

Speaker 4:
[65:17] That's a damn good question. Look, I'll try something different here. Let me see. What have I got here?

Speaker 3:
[65:24] You know, Brian has already done one.

Speaker 1:
[65:28] Oh, which one did Brian do?

Speaker 3:
[65:31] How's the short-term memory going, Jim?

Speaker 2:
[65:33] He did the top of the world highway.

Speaker 3:
[65:35] He did the top of the world highway.

Speaker 1:
[65:37] Oh, right.

Speaker 6:
[65:37] That's right, right.

Speaker 1:
[65:38] Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3:
[65:39] So we're now on the circle of everyone doing this.

Speaker 1:
[65:44] Which one did Sam take?

Speaker 3:
[65:46] Sam did the BDR.

Speaker 2:
[65:47] Yeah, Northern California.

Speaker 4:
[65:49] That's exactly right.

Speaker 1:
[65:50] Yes.

Speaker 6:
[65:51] Jim, you're putting us all on the spot. How about one from you? And no, you can't talk about British Columbia.

Speaker 4:
[65:56] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[65:57] Yeah, outside of British Columbia.

Speaker 1:
[65:59] You know what? I didn't do one, but I definitely would have picked British Columbia without a doubt. Without a doubt. I mean, because to me, it's the one place that I know of, and I'm not that experienced, but I mean, it's the one place that I know of that is just, it seems like it's endless. You can just ride and ride and ride, and every day is just so amazing. So yeah, that's what I would have to have picked.

Speaker 2:
[66:25] It's so beautiful. It really is.

Speaker 1:
[66:29] So this is really a show about British Columbia.

Speaker 5:
[66:32] This friend of mine that I mentioned earlier that's been riding in the backcountry, he's got 125,000 kilometers on his DR650 in the last 10 years in BC only.

Speaker 1:
[66:41] Wow. Is that right? Well, I believe it. Yeah. There's just so much to explore and it's just so much fun. And like I said, I only know just a fraction of it, but there's just so much out there. It's too bad we have winter because like down on the coast where you are, you don't really get winter very much, Grant.

Speaker 5:
[66:59] We didn't get a drop of snow this year.

Speaker 1:
[67:01] Well, snow isn't a drop. See how little you know about snow.

Speaker 6:
[67:04] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5:
[67:06] It's up in the mountains.

Speaker 1:
[67:08] The rest of BC is all locked up all winter, which is a shame. But boy, if you've got some time to explore, that is certainly a place to go. Come on, there has to be something else good. Let's go around again. Michelle, what have you got?

Speaker 2:
[67:19] Oh, gosh. Well, I've got a few to choose from, but I think I'm going to go north into Canada too. And I feel disloyal because there's a ton of good ones in the US.

Speaker 1:
[67:27] So, you know, I totally understand where you're coming from. Don't you, Grant?

Speaker 6:
[67:31] Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[67:33] But I'm not going to go west towards BC. I'm going the other direction and it's because for personal reasons. The Trans-Labrador Highway, I'm going to have to go that route. It's 700 miles and I know, I think it's been, what, three or four years now. This summer, I think of 22, they finished fully paving it. So that officially runs the Trans-Labrador Highway officially runs from Labrador City out to the Atlantic Coast. But in order to even get there, especially if you're from my part of the world, you have to ride thousands of miles, not even just hundreds, a couple thousand miles to get up to the start of it to get way out there. So the road itself, of course, is very remote. There's a lack of services all the way through. But so many things are so special. It's a very unique terrain. That part of the country is covered in muskeg. So it is a lot of kind of like swampy woodlands with the roadbed itself having been built up out of that muskeg. So it's a really unusual landscape. And out, when you get out to the Atlantic, depending on when you're out there, there is the possibility of seeing icebergs, which to me makes it a really special place to go and ride. And it depends on when you get there. It has to be early enough in the season that they're not all melted by the time you get there. But very often, like around the Red Bay area, some little bits of icebergs will be drifting in. And then when you get out to the Atlantic side, the way out usually, unless you're gonna backtrack, which nobody does, you take the ferry on to Newfoundland. And then you have the opportunity to get over to Newfoundland and ride there. So that whole part of the world is really very, very unique. Fishing villages, it's old Viking country. There's a couple of UNESCO World Heritage Sites at the top of Newfoundland, at L'Anse aux Meadows, and then Red Bay on the Labrador side that are really historical and just an extremely unique and beautiful part of the world. So I'm going to go with Trans Labrador.

Speaker 1:
[69:39] So the Trans Labrador stretches from where to where?

Speaker 2:
[69:43] Officially from Labrador City out to the Atlantic Coast. I think it ends at, oh gosh, is it, is it Red Bay? I'm trying to remember where it ends.

Speaker 1:
[69:54] Happy Valley?

Speaker 2:
[69:56] Well, no, because, no. So you start at Labrador City and you go to Happy Valley Goose Bay and from Happy Valley Goose Bay, you go out. Then that was the last section of the road that was built. And that's the last 240 miles from, from Happy Valley Goose Bay out towards Blanc Sablon and Red Bay. And so Blanc Sablon is where you catch the ferry to go over to Newfoundland.

Speaker 1:
[70:24] And if it's all like you're saying it's like it's not that hilly then.

Speaker 2:
[70:29] Um, you know, gosh, I'm trying to remember. There's definitely some hills because I remember coming out of Labrador City. And the time that I was there, there was a forest fire going on. So it was it was wooded. There was ton there were tons of fires all over Quebec, unfortunately. And you're at the the border. Labrador City is on the western edge of Labrador, Newfoundland province. So there were rolling hills because I remember going through the forest and passed a few small lakes as I left, left Labrador City and headed towards Churchill Falls. So there are some rolling hills and you as you leave Churchill Falls and go out towards Happy Valley Goose Bay, there are big sweeping river valleys, but it's mostly all forested.

Speaker 1:
[71:20] And so what was challenging about it?

Speaker 2:
[71:23] For one, the remoteness. I mean, if you are going out there, like anybody leaving from the US, you've got hundreds of miles of road to cover to even get to the start of it. At the time that I was there, it was still not completely paved. So a lot of what I rode was still gravel. And I cannot vouch for the sections of road that are in the Quebec section of the ride. So I came up from Montreal and Quebec City and up through like Bay Como and the Manic 5 dam and across that way. And that was all gravel. And it was deep gravel. And like not the friendliest road, I guess I would say. But the Trans Labrador section is now all paved. Again, I can't vouch for paved versus gravel on the Quebec side of the line.

Speaker 1:
[72:18] This is eastern Canada for anyone who is not aware of the place we're talking about right now. And as far as accommodations go, with this sort of distance, what are you looking at? Like camping everywhere?

Speaker 2:
[72:31] Yeah, we camped almost all the way at Relay Gabrielle. There was a fuel stop. So fuel is sparse and services are sparse at, yeah, I just kind of a handful of places along the way that you could get fuel. So you needed to make sure you had adequate range on your bike.

Speaker 1:
[72:50] But yeah, what's adequate range though?

Speaker 2:
[72:53] I think for me with my KLR, I never did have to carry fuel. So depending on how windy it is or how the riding is, how I'm progressing, my range is like 240, 250 miles. And that was just enough. I was getting down to being on reserve in a couple of places between fuel spots.

Speaker 1:
[73:16] And that's 23 liter tank you've got?

Speaker 2:
[73:18] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[73:21] Well, that sounds pretty neat. And anything else you can tell us about it?

Speaker 2:
[73:25] The other challenge is the black flies. Yuck, the midges. So you guys can keep those.

Speaker 1:
[73:33] Black flies are, yeah, they're somewhat annoying, aren't they?

Speaker 2:
[73:37] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[73:37] So the question here that I have to ask is, are there black flies in British Columbia?

Speaker 5:
[73:42] I've never really had a fly issue. Certainly had mosquito issues. But I use a repellent and, you know, the usual stuff and yeah, sometimes it can be bad. Early spring can be bad. Hot, high summer, not really much of a problem. Yeah. I mean, I've been in places, some places like down under where things like flying critters are considerably worse. So yeah, it's not, it's not good. Mosquitoes can be a problem, but yeah, it's not a huge problem. Not like farther North.

Speaker 6:
[74:18] Just changing the subject slightly, but only slightly. Have you guys been picking up on the ARC in Canada, the Adventure Roots Canada that have been-

Speaker 5:
[74:28] That was on my list. Yes.

Speaker 6:
[74:30] Absolutely. Coming together.

Speaker 5:
[74:31] That is awesome.

Speaker 1:
[74:32] Yeah, I see it is. They've been in touch with me here and there with it, and keep me up to date with what's going on. It's pretty exciting. I think it's any trails, and we're seeing more of this now. Of course, we had the T-Cat, which I don't know what's happened with the T-Cat. That's a Trans Canada Venture Trail. But it's really neat to see any of these because I find it really exciting, at least for me, for my style of riding. To have a route to follow just sort of gives me a purpose. And it also introduces me to places that other people know that I would probably miss. Like I think it was Grant that you said something about, you know, you'd ride right by it or somebody said that. You'd ride right by a place and not know it. And we all would, I guess. So I find these things really exciting when people are putting together routes.

Speaker 5:
[75:12] Yeah. Well, the ARC Canada is looking spectacular. They've got a whole lot of routes. There's a route around Quebec, which is where they started. I forget what the mileage is now, but it's easily a couple of thousand kilometers loop around Quebec. And it's all put together. It's all organized. They've got maps and instructions and guides and opt out sections. If you don't want to do something that's particularly difficult, they've done a really good job on it. And it's expanded into the Maritimes as well. There's a number of routes there. And somebody else I was going to talk about, Craig Luke, who runs a website called, I think we missed a turn.com, has been assembling a bunch of routes for a number of years, all based in the Cootenays, which is southwest, sorry, southeast British Columbia, which is another spectacular area right next to the Rockies. And he's incorporating a bunch of those routes into the Canada Arc routes. So those are great. If you wanted to do some riding in the Cootenays, I think we missed a turn.com, has a whole lot of really good routes set up.

Speaker 1:
[76:18] Now, isn't Craig also just riding across Canada this summer doing the TCAT, like sort of rejuvenating the TCAT?

Speaker 5:
[76:27] Trying to, and trying to find some of it. There's all kinds of issues with the TCAT. Some of it's fallen into disrepair, as you said. There's also issues with the bicycling and hiking group that are, want to have the TCAT just for bicycles and foot. So, I don't know what's exactly happening there, but I think that's where the ARC is coming in, and it's going to be a motorcycle specific. You can do it, you can walk it, and you can bicycle it and mountain bike it and whatever you want, of course, but it's focused on motorcycles. That's really cool part about it.

Speaker 6:
[77:05] I was reading an article from Zach at adventurerider.com, and he was threw out a tip in the middle of his piece about the ARC. And he was saying, and I'm going to quote, if you're flying your bike into North America from overseas, it's also worth noting that over the past decade or so, WestJet Cargo has offered specialized shipping rates to deliver your motorcycle into Canadian airports, and this is offered through several European airports. And I didn't know that. I had not picked up on WestJet doing that. So I thought I'd make a particular point of mentioning, I hope that's okay.

Speaker 1:
[77:40] Yeah, I don't know if that's a regular program, because we had WestJet on before one time talking about that. And then I think the next year they stopped doing it. And the person that we had on actually was gone. They were no longer working there. So you have to check that in advance before you start making a bunch of plans, make sure that's going to happen, because they may even change it by the, like at the start of the season, they may decide whether they're going to run it or not.

Speaker 6:
[78:03] Because they can decide it for a long time, didn't they?

Speaker 5:
[78:06] Yeah, they ran it for a number of years, and they decide every spring whether they're going to do it or not, depends on the routes and how much of a load of, because if a bike flies one way, then the plane has to pick up stuff to take back the other way in order to make sure they've got their cargo allocation adequate. There's all kinds of issues with that. And if it's a lot of tourists going with just a suitcase or there's a lot of goods going, it all depends on what they decide the season is going to be. But WestJet is definitely worth checking into. And also Air Canada, both of them fly into a number of European major cities. Frankfurt is a big one, there's a few others that they fly into. So that's absolutely worth checking. Far cheaper and a lot less hassle than flying into the US.

Speaker 1:
[78:59] With the way airlines are now charging for carry-on and everything else that you take with you, you think they'd have hardly any luggage in there now?

Speaker 5:
[79:07] You'd think.

Speaker 1:
[79:08] Like everybody just stuffing their clothes in their pocket and trying to get on without having to pay extra fees.

Speaker 6:
[79:14] Makes me laugh. All of these suits, these jackets that you can get with multiple pockets inside and all of that sort of stuff. I'm going down to Crete later on in the year to link up with an American friend called John. He was the guy that was on the back of my bike when I had that horrible accident in Tanzania. And yeah, he still speaks to me. But anyway, so we're going to link up there for a week or so. So I've been looking at flights to get down there and I am gobsmacked at how much it costs to take anything other than cabin luggage. And I'm just thinking, good grief, I'm not taking a shipping trunk with me. I'm just thinking about taking a small rolly suitcase. No, I'm not. No, I'm going to get myself one of these jackets with multiple pockets. No, I'm not. I'm too tight for that. I'm going to make one.

Speaker 1:
[80:04] I wonder how that will go in security check, you know, when you're taking 300 items out of your coat, all in different pockets.

Speaker 6:
[80:11] I think you can just put the whole coat with the sealed pockets into the bucket and have that go through. I'll let you know how I get on.

Speaker 1:
[80:22] Who else? Who has another one that's not in British Columbia?

Speaker 4:
[80:26] Oh, I've got to you. We've all concentrated way, way, way north. What about Denny, Texas? He rode through the Texas Hill Country, you know. That was lovely. Really nice, pleasant riding through there.

Speaker 1:
[80:44] So what kind of road is this?

Speaker 4:
[80:47] Oh, I think it's called the Twisted Sisters. Twisted Sisters, you know, it's just...

Speaker 2:
[80:54] Yeah, it's beautiful, Denny.

Speaker 4:
[80:55] Yeah, it's a big national park all through there, you know. North America's got some lovely roads and, you know, just cruising around those sorts of places. It's a bit hilly, plenty of good corners if you want to go do a bit of scratching, isn't it, Cheryl? But the Twisted Sisters road, I reckon is a good one too, for anyone down south.

Speaker 1:
[81:19] Any idea of the length?

Speaker 4:
[81:21] Look, it's not very long, a hundred miles, Cheryl? Something like that. It's not very long.

Speaker 3:
[81:26] Okay, no responsibility, I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[81:28] Yeah, but take your time, you know, you go to Lückenbach, little places like that, Fredericksburg.

Speaker 3:
[81:34] Is that in the Twisted Sisters?

Speaker 4:
[81:35] Oh, it's not far off it.

Speaker 3:
[81:37] Everybody is somebody in Lückenbach.

Speaker 4:
[81:38] Yeah, it's nearby, it's nearby. But there's heaps of little good rides around that part of the world.

Speaker 3:
[81:44] And you can knock yourself out on Tex-Mex and Texas Barbecues, all both very good.

Speaker 2:
[81:51] I think the Twisted Sisters is some of the old ranch roads. And I think they're numbers like highway 335, or what do they call it? A ranch road, 335, 336 and 337. They're all three in a row. But yeah, they're super cool. Beautiful hill country.

Speaker 4:
[82:08] Yeah, yeah, that's right. And our mates in Austin, Texas, take us down there and show us a really good time. Right, just riding through this, just wonderful.

Speaker 1:
[82:17] Is it all asphalt?

Speaker 4:
[82:19] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[82:21] So old ranch roads that have been upgraded, sort of the asphalt.

Speaker 4:
[82:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[82:27] Not that we knew they were old ranch roads, thanks.

Speaker 4:
[82:29] We had no idea. We really enjoyed it.

Speaker 5:
[82:34] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[82:34] Well, that's, anybody else has ridden that? Michelle, you've been on it, haven't you?

Speaker 2:
[82:39] Yep, I've been on it. And there used to be, I don't know if it's still around, but there used to be a motorcycle museum in a town called Kerrville, not too far from that part of the world. But that whole thing, I know somebody threw out Big Bend National Park, and that's a ways away down by the Mexico border, but that whole area in between the two, you could easily connect those two with some spectacular riding. It is really beautiful, but that hill country, there's limestone cliffs and river roads, rivers running through that part of the country. It's really particularly beautiful.

Speaker 6:
[83:14] Listening to you guys talking about this makes me smile because so many times I've had people say to me, why would you want to go to Texas? There's nothing to see. There's nothing to ride. There's no adventures in Texas. And I just think, God, you guys have not ridden enough in Texas. What else is in Texas?

Speaker 3:
[83:31] I have to admit, Sam, when we crossed into Texas from after South and Central America, I thought, Texas, yeah, whatever. And after about three days, I said to Brian, I never thought these words would tumble out of my mouth, but I love Texas. It came as a huge surprise to me. Yeah. But, you know, the great cities, but good riding as, you know, just heading out, going from Texas, heading to the West Coast. I just encountered some amazing roads without even really trying very hard. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1:
[84:05] Does Texas have a lot of adventure motorcycle routes or is it mostly asphalt?

Speaker 3:
[84:11] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[84:13] I think a lot of it's asphalt.

Speaker 3:
[84:14] My area of expertise.

Speaker 1:
[84:15] Is it?

Speaker 4:
[84:16] Yeah, most of it's asphalt. I think, yeah, you go, Michelle.

Speaker 2:
[84:19] No, I was just going to say, I think, a lot of it is asphalt because it is so heavily populated and so developed. There's a lot of, you know, ranch land, but there's a lot of really cool two-lane roads that go into these little towns, even if they are paved, they're rolling hills and they're kind of curvy and go through creeks and, you know, different parts of Texas. It's the terrain because it's such an enormous state. The terrain is really varied out on the west end, the kind of pointy end of the state as you're getting over towards the Mexico border. But up underneath New Mexico, there's Guadalupe Mountains National Park. And if you haven't been to that, it's amazing. It's mountains. And I don't think of Texas being as being mountainous, but it's literal mountains with this enormous kind of stone peak at one end of it. And I mean, that stands out. That's beautiful riding that part of the state. I know in between Big Bend National Park, which is spectacular. And some of that can be a lot of that is back roads, gravel roads. You can even get some dirt roads, of course, all over. But between Big Bend National Park and Guadalupe National Park was the weird little town of Marfa, where they supposedly have seen UFOs. And then you go through, gosh, I can't remember what the town is now. I'm going to forget this, but there's like an observatory and some really cool old West towns where they had shootouts. And it's just a really neat, there's a lot of neat places in Texas. Fredericksburg is beautiful, this German town in the middle of Texas. It's surprising the wide variety of landscapes and culture that you can experience in one state.

Speaker 3:
[86:09] And Fredericksburg is possibly the best place to get German style pancakes for breakfast. Not that Texas is all about food for me.

Speaker 5:
[86:18] Oh no.

Speaker 6:
[86:20] Shirley, you haven't mentioned steak yet. I had one of the best T-bone steaks ever. Oh, you did say barbecue.

Speaker 3:
[86:27] Yeah, barbecue, Texas barbecue.

Speaker 6:
[86:29] One of the best T-bone steaks I've ever had. That was last time I was in Texas. We don't get T-bone steaks in the UK anymore. I haven't had them since Mad Cow. And I really miss them. So I had one that was two inches thick.

Speaker 3:
[86:43] And you'll have to come and stay with us. And our butcher has the best steaks.

Speaker 1:
[86:53] Anyone else have anything before we wrap this up?

Speaker 5:
[86:58] I wanted to mention another one about BC that's brand new.

Speaker 2:
[87:01] Yes, please.

Speaker 1:
[87:03] We're not going to get them to stop. Where is that mute button? How do I mute grid? Does anyone know how to do that? Okay, Greg, go ahead.

Speaker 5:
[87:12] There's a new one. It's called the BC Backbone Adventure Route. BC Backbone Adventure Route. Brand new, just completed. I haven't ridden it, but I've ridden parts of it over the years. And I'm looking forward to doing it. It's done by Grizzly of Rubicon Adventures. So it's Rubicon with a K, adventures.com. And it goes up the Coast Range Mountains, basically starting in Vancouver and heading about halfway up the province. It's 2,700 kilometers, 2,500 kilometers, depending on your alternate routes and side trips taken, etc. Just returning back to Vancouver would be around 1,500 kilometers. There's 10 sections, descriptions, highlights, distances, lodging, fuel stops, challenges, alternates, discovery points, all kinds of stuff. It really, really looks good and I am planning on doing at least half of it this summer for sure. It definitely looks great.

Speaker 6:
[88:08] Fantastic. I hadn't heard about it.

Speaker 1:
[88:10] rubiconadventures.com is the website.

Speaker 5:
[88:12] Yeah, with a K, not a C.

Speaker 1:
[88:14] Right. What is this? Is this an organization that's done it?

Speaker 5:
[88:19] No, it's one guy who's retired, has been retired for about 10 years. He lives in Washington state, but he rides in BC. Hint, hint, how good BC is. I couldn't turn that down. Anyway, he comes up here and he rides the area and he's been riding this whole section for years, putting it all together. And he's got a little bit of a video on it on the website. It's got a Facebook group so they can point it out. It's all free. Nothing. There's no charge for any of it. It's all there up for the community. So I think a big shout out to Grizzly for that. Very cool.

Speaker 1:
[88:56] That's really neat. And I just seeing when I was looking at that, he mentions Backroad Map Books. So if you're riding British Columbia, if you're going to look for grants talking about riding so much, backroadmapbooks.com. Is that the website, Grant? Is that right? backroadmapbooks.com. We'll put the link in the show notes. It offers great maps, the best maps you can get for the area. They do the whole country, actually, all of Canada, but great maps showing most of the backroads that you're going to be on. So if you want a reliable map, you can get them paper and you get them downloaded. That's the place to go to put them in your GPS or get the paper printed ones. Probably both is best.

Speaker 5:
[89:37] Definitely get the both. Yeah. It makes it a little easier to figure out the overall. But I've been using Backroad Map Books with Gaia. Gaia GPS has a layer if you have the premium version that includes Backroad Map Books, which is really cool. And also if you take the paper, and I also use a DMD2 tablet with all of that on it. And between the two, it's just navigation is much, much easier. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[90:03] They also have an app that you can download for your phone. So it's a subscription service. You have to pay for it monthly, but it has all and you can change the layers and everything. I'm not keen on the app myself. There's some things with it that drives me crazy. One is not being able to see the legend. So it's difficult.

Speaker 5:
[90:20] Yeah, but it's better on a tablet.

Speaker 1:
[90:22] Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure it is. The thing that you were talking about doing it as a backup, having the paper as a backup. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I did have a GPS fail one time. They kept showing me, this is not for motorcycle. This is on a kayaking trip that I was guiding, but kept showing me off the coast of Africa. And it was just, it failed on me. It was basically useless. Well, it was totally useless. It happens.

Speaker 5:
[90:48] Yeah, well, I may be a little overcautious, but having been lost once, thoroughly lost in the mountains, I use the DMD2 tablet with Gaia GPS and the DMD2 navigation that it comes with. And my phone is in my pocket with Gaia on it and Google Maps as well. Not that it's much use in the mountains here, but I've got Gaia on that as well. So, and I'll carry a back road map book for an area. So no matter what, I think I'm pretty safe. So I think that's a good idea. Have you tried popcorn? Popcorn?

Speaker 1:
[91:23] Yeah, you keep dropping popcorn as you go along, that way you can find your way back.

Speaker 5:
[91:27] I've noticed the bears pick it up though. They like it.

Speaker 1:
[91:30] That's a possibility. I never thought about that before. I never had to use it. It never went back. So maybe that's what's been happening.

Speaker 6:
[91:36] Cheapskate, you're supposed to leave a golden thread behind you.

Speaker 5:
[91:39] Right.

Speaker 1:
[91:40] That's the English way. What is the DMD2 tablet you're talking about?

Speaker 5:
[91:48] If you don't know about DMD2, DMD and the number 2, go look it up, because they make some fantastic tablets that are completely ruggedized, designed for motorcycles, with excellent navigation maps in it, and you can actually hook it into your new motorcycle into the ODBD socket, and it will show you on your tablet, which is sitting up front of you in a dash, it'll show you all your usual motorcycle water temperature and all the rest of the stuff that modern bikes have. It's really cool, really, really nice, and ruggedized and excellent.

Speaker 1:
[92:25] I thought you were using just a cheap one.

Speaker 5:
[92:28] I did. And the point of that was the $170 Samsung tablet. The idea of that was to test out the DMD2 software. Did I like it? Is this tablet idea on the front of my dual sport bike a good idea? Does it work? Can I see adequately?

Speaker 1:
[92:44] I see.

Speaker 5:
[92:45] And all the negatives of that tablet are solved with the dedicated tablet. Like it works with the gloves and all kinds of good stuff, and it's waterproof and it's rugged, and it's got a really nice mounting system. I love it. It's great.

Speaker 1:
[92:59] And of course, this is not just for British Columbia, of course. This will cover you anywhere, right?

Speaker 5:
[93:04] Yeah, it's the European company.

Speaker 1:
[93:07] dmdnavigation.com.

Speaker 5:
[93:10] Something like that.

Speaker 1:
[93:11] Yeah. Yeah, really good stuff.

Speaker 5:
[93:14] So I use that. I also, I confess, I also have an old Garmin 660 GPS, which is seated on the bike as well. So I think I'm covered for navigation.

Speaker 1:
[93:26] And you carry a compass as well, right?

Speaker 5:
[93:28] Of course. Gee. I mean, seriously, I do.

Speaker 1:
[93:33] No, I expect you do. I'm just thinking that's a lot of backups.

Speaker 5:
[93:37] Yep. Well, when I know of a guy who had his bike go off a cliff, complete with all of his navigation, including his phone, and he was standing on this road, middle of nowhere, bike at the bottom of a cliff, never even going to get to it, much less recover it. And he was in deep.

Speaker 1:
[93:56] Yeah. Yeah, you would be.

Speaker 5:
[93:58] I mean, it happens.

Speaker 1:
[93:59] Definitely. I think it's important to have things in your pocket all the time. Have your real emergency stuff in your pockets.

Speaker 5:
[94:06] My phone and my compass are in my jacket, always complete with basic emergency. First aid is on my jacket.

Speaker 1:
[94:16] I have no idea what this has to do with ride routes, but how we got here.

Speaker 5:
[94:19] But you got to ride the route and you have to be prepared for the route. You want to make sure you've got enough gas and you want to make sure you're prepared. You've got camping equipment and you're warm and dry and you know where you're going so you're not lost. All that good stuff. It's all part of it.

Speaker 1:
[94:35] Anyone else a route outside of British Columbia?

Speaker 6:
[94:38] I would like to talk about another BDR. This one's down, well, it's the Southeast BDR and it's cast as moderate difficulty. And I picked that one out because not all adventures need to be hard. They need to have their challenging sections.

Speaker 1:
[94:54] All of BDR routes are meant for adventure motorcycles. They're not, I don't think they have any that are asphalt, correct?

Speaker 6:
[95:01] I think most of them have small sections that are asphalt. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[95:06] So this one you're talking about is what? What's the name of it?

Speaker 6:
[95:09] The Southeast BDR. And it's 1,300 miles long. And it starts down in the Gulf of Florida. And it takes you right up to Damascus in Virginia. So, I mean, I didn't know that Florida, for example, has some pretty good off-road riding. And some of the sections that you get taken through on this route, I'm just thinking, yeah, okay. I wouldn't want to do that in the real wet because you're going to be talking about mud pools. So you've got to pick your time of year. But I've ridden a lot of the areas that this route takes you through. And just by sheer chance, I've ridden some of the tracks and back roads and so on. But again, like with the North California one, this has just opened up a world of possibilities. It's supposed to take about seven to ten days to ride. And again, I think I'd add on another three or four days for that. It's split into ten sections and there's food and places to stay at the end of each section. And you know, there are wild, there are camping sites and free dispersal camping sites in national forests and all of that sort of thing. But it takes you up through the Appalachian Mountains in Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina. Just simply, wow, scenery. And I think one of the other things that tickles me about it is because again, it's way off the beaten track, then you're going through these tiny little towns and tiny little villages and you're going through national forests and state parks and civil war sites. And it even takes you through the Maggie Valley Motorcycle Museum. And I think if anybody's riding in the southeast and they haven't, well, they've got to put the Maggie Valley Motorcycle Museum on their list. And I think the other thing that I particularly like about down in that part of the world is that the architecture, I really like wooden houses with verandas and the food. Oh, there's lots of lovely food. But yeah, twisties, most of the road's on this route of gravel, lots of lakes and mountains and ancient bridges and spectacular overlooks and so on. And I think that they sort of class it as, you don't have to be an expert off-road rider, but you've got to be, consider yourself to be competent. So in other words, if you're a total novice, then you aren't going to want to do this because you'll find it way too hard. But if you've had a lesson or two and some experience, then I think that you can go out there and have some real fun. It is a route that I wouldn't want to do on my own, but having seen the film, I'd rather do it with somebody else. Just because I know that I'm going to drop my bike, and it's always nice to have a mate to help you pick it up, isn't it?

Speaker 1:
[98:08] They've got some parts of the route that are different colors. I'm assuming that denotes a different grade, a different skill level?

Speaker 6:
[98:16] Yeah, it does. So there are some sections that you can do, which are tough. They're tough. They're really challenging. But there are loops around where they take you through easier sections. I mean, you're still going to be on gravel and things like that, but they're just not as gnarly as the tougher sections.

Speaker 1:
[98:37] So if you start down in Florida and you end up, well, I guess in Maine, I guess, you're right below Montreal and you can just shoot right up there and do the Labrador route.

Speaker 6:
[98:50] Of course you could.

Speaker 1:
[98:51] Right. So that just sets you right up for that. So there's two that are close together, you can connect. And then of course you could go right across the country and end up in the cusp for the meet in the cusp on July 8th and 9th. Is it 8th and 9th? What was it?

Speaker 5:
[99:05] July 9th to 12th.

Speaker 6:
[99:06] I think what we're building up to here is that everybody needs to take a year off work and they need to start down in Florida and they need to work their way up through and across Canada and then down the west side of the United States.

Speaker 5:
[99:22] Perfect.

Speaker 6:
[99:22] And home again.

Speaker 1:
[99:23] That's a great idea. Yeah. Well, all this talk has certainly got me excited about the coming season and then the possibilities.

Speaker 5:
[99:31] I got to get out and work on my bike.

Speaker 1:
[99:34] Yeah. Change your oil, drain that coolant out and get rid of that. And get rid of the rad. Take it right off. Get a little, reduce the weight.

Speaker 5:
[99:41] It's really annoying. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[99:43] Take the rad off and you can take a full toothbrush.

Speaker 6:
[99:45] What?

Speaker 5:
[99:46] A whole toothbrush?

Speaker 1:
[99:47] A whole toothbrush. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[99:49] Wow.

Speaker 6:
[99:50] Ultimate luxury.

Speaker 1:
[99:52] Let's slip into plugs, shall we? Michelle, what have you got?

Speaker 2:
[99:57] Oh gosh. I guess I will do a little follow up on Women's International Motorcycle Association. Just because I happened to, when I was traveling in March, I was traveling overseas. And even though I wasn't traveling on a motorcycle, I was able to meet up with a bunch of motorcycling friends along the way. And it was because of this women's organization that I'm part of. And it was so much fun. So I was in Japan for a little over a week. And in three different cities had dinner or drinks or caught up for coffee or whatever with other women motorcyclists from Japan. So it just goes to show that even though I didn't happen to have a bike when I was there, you can still have those connections and forge friendships. And of course, now I want to go back and have a motorcycle experience in Japan the next time I go. So for women that are interested in connecting with other women motorcyclists around the world, if you plan to travel overseas and you want to have someone on the ground locally that you can contact and ask beforehand about what roads to ride, what some of the special features of the roads or laws and regulations are that you might need to know before you go, it's really helpful to have those connections. So we have divisions in 40 different countries around the world. I happen to be the head of the USA division. So anybody traveling to the US from overseas, if I can ever assist you, obviously, please feel free to reach out to me as well. So the international organization can be found at wimaworld.com and you can find out if there's a division in your country or if you're interested in starting one, just drop us a line.

Speaker 1:
[101:42] That's really neat. I did see some of the photos that you were posting, only just a small smattering of them. But I thought it was pretty neat how you can go to a place like Japan and meet up with kindred spirits right away. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2:
[101:57] Yeah. And I met the president of the South Korea Division as well. So I mean, it was just, it was an extra layer of fun for a non-motorcycle trip to make that connection with motorcycle friends.

Speaker 1:
[102:09] Yeah. I've heard other people talk about contacting motorcycle groups of whatever kind. I mean, there's so many different groups out there when you're going to places because it gives you that instant local connection. And I think that's a pretty neat way to do things. If you're planning a route like any of the routes we talked about today, it would probably be worthwhile trying to connect with some locals and even just riding with somebody for a short time. It would really add to the experience.

Speaker 2:
[102:33] Absolutely. I highly recommend it.

Speaker 1:
[102:37] Sam, how about you? What have you got?

Speaker 6:
[102:39] I've got a couple of events coming up later on in the summer. The first is the Adventure Bike Rider Festival in the UK, and that's on between June 26th and 28th. And I'm going to be presenting on one of the stages, and then Simon and Lisa Thomas are going to be pinning me to the chair with their questions on another of the stages. And then I'm going to be doing book signing and so on in the Traveler's Tent, which is another of the interview venues. The other event is the Armchair Adventure Festival, and that's July 23rd to 26th, also in the UK. I always like this name, the Armchair Adventure Festival. It does put people who don't know what it's about off a bit, but it was set up in the time of COVID when none of us could go to travel events and festivals and so on. So they set up Matt and Rhys, the sidecar guys. Listeners have probably heard about these two guys who set off on a scooter and sidecar and ended up traveling around the world. This is one of the things that they've done since they've been back. They set up the festival and during COVID time, well, all of the presentations and everything else were done by Zoom. And so you could just link in and you could still have the sensation of being at a festival. And it's carried on in real life ever since. I think one of the reasons that I like it is because lots of motorcyclists go but it's a case of if you're into travel, then you're going to find a presentation going on by somebody who you can get sailors there and four by four drivers and you've got people who've driven across the Darien Gap and so on and they'll be up on stage doing a presentation or somebody who's just climbed all of the mountains in the British Isles, the big ones and that sort of stuff. So it's a really good fun event to be at. And those are my main two ones this summer.

Speaker 1:
[104:47] Well, that's pretty neat and you're going to have some trips in between that, I gather. That's what your trip planning is.

Speaker 6:
[104:52] Yeah, too right. Smile factor on its way.

Speaker 1:
[104:57] Shirley, what have you got?

Speaker 3:
[105:00] Well, Jim, I actually have something.

Speaker 4:
[105:03] Wow, I gave it to you.

Speaker 3:
[105:05] Oh, shush. Brian's got to take the edge off everything, doesn't he? It's not actually an event, but it's a group. It's a group called Sikes on Bikes. We met them at a BMW event in Mudgee a couple of weeks ago, and they're mental health practitioners, be they psychologists, psychiatrists, psychiatric nurses, counsellors. They ride, and they ride for their own mental health, and they are big advocates of getting out on the road and enjoying the joys of motorcycling. But they also go to events, and if ever you're at an event in Australia and you see them, they're in red and black t-shirts, and they have a little easy app which says, Psychs on Bikes. They're really good to go and talk to. They will do a mental health check for you, or just check your blood pressure, talk to you about your general health. They'll ask you questions like, do you worry too much? Don't you sleep well? Perhaps you drink a little bit too much. Just things that could make you realize that you're maybe not dealing so well with some of the aspects of your life. Mental health is such an important thing, and many, many people don't care enough about their own mental health, or the mental health of others. So, we sat through a presentation and also went and chatted with some of them. Great people, really worthwhile, so if you come across them. Sikes on Bikes.

Speaker 6:
[106:39] Can I just go sideways on that one just for a minute, because there's an organization in the UK called Mental Health Motorbike, and it sounds like these guys are kindred spirits. And yeah, if you're battling, then get in touch with them. They're really great people.

Speaker 1:
[106:59] Brian, how about you?

Speaker 4:
[107:01] Yeah, well, of course, the distinguished gentleman who rides on around the world on the 17th of May. And we're running one here in Castlemaine with all my mates, and we're going to meet at our local Returns Servicemen's League sub-branch, where the ladies, lovely ladies, are putting on morning tea and coffee and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3:
[107:23] And I know it's not about food. But the ladies at the Castlemaine RSL make the best passion fruit sponge, so it's worth registering to do the GTR in our hometown to come and have one of the slice of passion fruit sponge at the RSL before the ride. Over to you again, Brian.

Speaker 4:
[107:44] Oh, thanks, Ryan.

Speaker 2:
[107:44] Fish or wish list.

Speaker 6:
[107:46] We'll get on with the ride.

Speaker 4:
[107:50] No, look, we have a nice little ride. People that do the Distinguished Gentlemen's rides in the city at Stop Start and all that sort of stuff. Well, our ride isn't. Our local constabulary help us get out of town and we do some rides up through some of our hills and end up at a nice hotel for a lovely lunch where Paul puts a room aside for us. And we have a nice day and have a bit of a chat and raise some money for men's health issues. So I fully encourage anyone in the world anywhere to be part of a Distinguished Gentlemen's ride. You know, you dress up in a tuxedo or a suit or I mean as, where did I go as last time?

Speaker 3:
[108:38] Doctor Death.

Speaker 4:
[108:40] Doctor Death, that's right, with the top hat. Anyway, we have a bit of fun with it, and we raise some money for health issues, particularly with men, with PTSD, prostate cancers, things like that.

Speaker 3:
[108:55] And some of you may know Lala Barlow, an Australian musical actress who went to South America, and she posts a lot about motorcycling. She loves it. She's going to come and ride in Castlemaine with us for the DGR this year.

Speaker 6:
[109:11] Oh, nice.

Speaker 3:
[109:12] We have celebrities.

Speaker 1:
[109:13] So what's the date on that?

Speaker 4:
[109:15] 17th of May.

Speaker 1:
[109:16] And that's the 17th of May everywhere, right? Because it's not necessarily Sunday everywhere.

Speaker 3:
[109:22] No, it's all around the world on the same date, isn't it, Brian?

Speaker 4:
[109:25] That's right, it is. And it's mainly set up for you guys in the Northern Hemisphere, because it is a little bit cooler down here, riding around in a suit.

Speaker 1:
[109:35] And the website for that is Gentleman's ride.com, I guess that's the main website, isn't it?

Speaker 4:
[109:42] It is. And you can search through the countries, and then you can search through the event that you want to go to, and register at that event.

Speaker 3:
[109:51] Yeah, find a ride, pardon me, find a ride near you.

Speaker 6:
[109:55] Yeah, very nice.

Speaker 1:
[109:56] And we'll put that link in the show notes, of course. Grant, what have you got? Grant.

Speaker 6:
[110:05] He's thinking about the next thing about British Columbia to say.

Speaker 1:
[110:08] Yeah. Grant, wake up.

Speaker 4:
[110:14] We've lost him.

Speaker 1:
[110:16] Well, there's a lot of events going on for Horizons Unlimited. You can go to horizonsunlimited.com/events. We did mention the one in the cusp there, but they're going on around the world. And what, is that Grant in there?

Speaker 5:
[110:29] Yeah, I'm here.

Speaker 1:
[110:31] Oh, you woke up. I tried to wake you up.

Speaker 5:
[110:33] I called. I was on mute.

Speaker 1:
[110:36] That's okay.

Speaker 5:
[110:37] That's okay. Yes. Anyway, yes. Thank you. Excellent introduction. You've done a very good job on that. You're hired.

Speaker 1:
[110:43] Thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 5:
[110:44] Yes, we have lots of events. I forget how many it is, but it's like 14 or something around the world. And on Virginia, you're just going to miss Virginia when this comes out. But Queensland, Germany, Bulgaria, Ecuador, Can-Wes, Switzerland, Romania, Austria, California, France, New York, Germany, and Colombia. So that's a full slate just about everywhere in the world that matters sort of. And yeah, check out one of those. But I also wanted to mention, since we've had lots of discussion already on mental health, I want to give a shout out to Critter Motto, C-R-I-T-T-E-R underscore Motto. He has a website, crittermottoalloneword.com, and it's all about mental health, especially for men, PTSD and all that kind of stuff. He's based here in British Columbia, but there's lots of good stuff on there. Check it out. Okay, very good.

Speaker 1:
[111:38] We'll put that link in the show notes. Do you guys get the impression that Grant's sort of biased to BC?

Speaker 6:
[111:43] Me? No, no, no.

Speaker 4:
[111:47] Why don't you get that on to your friend?

Speaker 1:
[111:49] I don't know, maybe it's me.

Speaker 5:
[111:51] I'm enjoying living here, actually. I've lived years and years in Australia, the UK, spent a lot of time in Hong Kong and Singapore, lived in Singapore, legally lived in Gibraltar. And I'm enjoying BC. There's a lot here. People are good. I like it. I'm happy.

Speaker 1:
[112:13] You might stay.

Speaker 5:
[112:13] That's important. I might stay. Of course, that's a flexible thing. Permanent is not one of our words that we use.

Speaker 4:
[112:22] Great. You've just forgotten how good Australia is. It's that long ago since you lived here.

Speaker 5:
[112:27] I know. I know.

Speaker 1:
[112:32] Well, that wraps it up everyone.

Speaker 6:
[112:34] Jim, can I just say one thing before you just wind everything up? Thank you very much. That's it. Rewind. You and Grant were just talking about Horizons Unlimited event. And I just thought I'd like to add something in there if I may. And that is, so many of our listeners who have done trips, really special things. I get messages all the time from people who are out there or have been out on a trip, and just bag and this sort of stuff. If you possibly, possibly can get yourself to a Horizons Unlimited event because you're going to be surrounded by kindred spirits. And if you can get to one, don't be shy. Put your name forward to do a presentation. Share some of the stuff where you've been and the things that you've learned. And give other people the chance to learn from you so that you're making them have much more of a possibility of going out and traveling. So, you know, get yourself to a meet, but, you know, sign up and do some presentations. I, for one, would be absolutely fascinated to sit down and listen to the stories.

Speaker 5:
[113:44] Yeah, it's always great. I'm always amazed at the amazing stories that people come up with. And a lot of them aren't really on social media. They're not big stars. They're just ordinary people doing extraordinary stuff. And then they come around and tell their story. And it's really inspiring to see ordinary guy and girl what they did. Wow, you know, that's okay. You know, I guess I could do that too. It's really inspiring to see that.

Speaker 6:
[114:13] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[114:14] You know, the thing is, motorcycling is a lot of fun, I think.

Speaker 5:
[114:18] Yeah. You just figured that out.

Speaker 1:
[114:21] Thank you very much, everyone. That was great fun, as always. Until next month.

Speaker 5:
[114:25] Do we have to go now?

Speaker 2:
[114:27] Thanks, everybody.

Speaker 6:
[114:30] Cheers, everybody.

Speaker 1:
[114:31] Thanks, all.

Speaker 5:
[114:35] Bye.

Speaker 1:
[114:38] Well, that wraps things up for this month's ARR RAW. And thank you to my co-host, Sam Manicom. Starting with Sam Manicom, he lives in the UK. He's got four books and audiobooks that follow his eight-year motorcycle journey around the world. His website, sammanicom.com. Shirley Hardy-Ricks and Brian Ricks are from Australia. They also published their own books on motorcycle travel. You can buy them wherever you get e-books at their website, aussiesoverland.com.au. Michelle Lamphair is a mototraveller that also has a couple of great mototravel books, The Butterfly Route and Tips for Traveling Overland in Latin America. Both of those titles are available on Amazon. As well, she has a motel for us motorcyclists and anyone else called the Chalet Motel. You can find out more about that at chaletmotelcuster.com. And of course, Grant Johnson is from Horizons Unlimited, which is the hub, literally for our adventure motorcycling community. Horizons Unlimited has tons of up-to-date travel information as well as a huge forum of dedicated travelers that connect you with other travelers. They also put on the hub meets around the world. You can see a worldwide list of hub meets at their website horizonsunlimited.com. Special thanks to our producer Elizabeth Martin. My name is Jim Martin. Thank you for listening. Join us again next time. Oh, and don't forget, if you want to get your question or a topic suggestion in here, drop by our website. You can also look at the show notes and have some more information here at adventureriderradio.com.