transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] From is on Sundays on MGM+. In a small, inescapable town, understanding the monsters may be the only way out. Desperate hope may lead residents toward even darker truths.

Speaker 2:
[00:15] I think they're doing it to make us afraid.

Speaker 3:
[00:17] Well, then it worked.

Speaker 1:
[00:18] Something ancient is feeding off of their suffering and it won't stop. Survival will demand impossible choices. Catch new episodes of From Sundays on MGM Plus.

Speaker 3:
[00:30] You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price, and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah, so do we. Here at Designer Shoe Warehouse, we'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love, or the trends everyone's obsessing over, or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Find shoes that get you, or prices that get your budget. That's your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW, let us surprise you.

Speaker 4:
[01:03] Hello, and welcome to your Tuesday edition of The Nerve. I am your host Maureen Callahan. Tons of good stuff to get to. First up, Rob Shuter, Gossip Columnist extraordinaire. He's got some incredibly hot exclusives, and also his brand new book, It Started with a Whisper, is out today. If you have not pre-ordered your copy of The Nerve's inaugural book club selection, please do. We also are going to have a giveaway we'll talk about in a little bit. He's going to join us. I'm loving this book, and I've slowed myself down. As much as I'm loving it, I deliberately stopped and put a pause in there so that I can read it alongside you guys, okay? And then we're going to come back to it in a few weeks with Rob to chat with all of your questions. We've got Rob's exclusives on. Nobody has ever, ever reported this before. John F. Kennedy Jr. had another career at the ready. Like he was all in and had a secret meeting the day that he died, and it was not politics. It's going to shock you. It's going to surprise me, and I'm hard to surprise when it comes to the Kennedys. We've got growing outrage over Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's little jaunt to, I should say it with a hard J, jaunt to Australia. And someone's trying to broker a peace treaty between two rival factions that nobody asked for and is never going to happen. But it's great gossip. Then of course, our favorite part of the show, your feedback and then we are going to wrap up today's show with a very surprising, powerful and I think very important interview given by an A-list star who grew up in an unthinkable amount of domestic violence as a child and teenager. And if you're unfamiliar with her story or even if you know sort of the broad outlines of it, I don't think she's ever spoken in this much detail before. And this is really, this is a use of celebrity that is for good. All too rare, really for good. And I can't wait really to share this with you guys. And talk to you about it as the week progresses. So are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. Those of you who call yourselves the mo bros, the straight male contingent of this show, hang tight because this ad is for female troublemakers. Ladies, are you having trouble sleeping through the night, thinking clearly and just feeling like yourself? Well, Biologica makes a drinkable daily supplement that goes beyond a multivitamin. It combines vitamins, minerals, probiotics, electrolytes and clinically researched botanicals in one easy drink. So no more juggling pills in the morning. It's an effervescent powder. You just mix it with water. It tastes great. It's easy to remember to take it daily. It is made with clean ingredients, no added sugar and it was developed alongside women's health experts. What sets Biologica apart is that it's designed for different hormonal life stages. Primary Essentials supports women in their reproductive years. Midlife Essentials supports women navigating perimenopause. Postmenopause Essentials supports women in postmenopause. So you can choose what's right for your body right now. Head to biologica.com/nerve, get started, take their quick hormonal life stage quiz to find the formula that's right for you. Right now, subscribers can receive up to 32% off their purchases. Again, make sure to go to biologica.com/nerve, get up to 32% off your first subscription order today. Joining us now, the one, the only, Rob Shuter. Not only is he the author of the must-subscribe substack gossip newsletter, Naughty But Nice, Step Away, Grab a Coffee. Guess what? Rob's put in three new items. The guy never sleeps. But we are also so happy because today, we celebrate with our dear Rob. His eagerly anticipated debut novel, It Started with a Whisper is out today. I know so many of you troublemakers have pre-ordered it. The rest of you who haven't ordered it, order it. It is our inaugural book club pick. This guy is rocketing to the top of The New York Times bestseller list. We are making our stamp on the culture, and today, we kick off some gossip with talk of Rob's book. Rob, congratulations. As they say in publishing, happy Pub Day.

Speaker 5:
[06:21] Thank you, my friend. I'm so excited. My head is exploding, and thank you, Troublemakers, Maureen, for all the love. I can't wait for this book to do well enough that I can put a big sticker on the front, and I don't want to put on the Oprah book club. I'm going to put on the Troublemakers book club. I'm thrilled that you are enjoying it, Maureen. I know you read it over the weekend. I was really nervous about sending it to you. I desperately wanted you to like it, and I'm thrilled that you do. Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[06:49] Rob, I love it. I texted you over the weekend. I did. I was enjoying your book, and I know the terror that's involved. I go through it. Every writer I know goes through it. When you hand your book to someone else, especially somebody you're fond of, and you just want them to like it, it's an extension of you. It came out of you. So I knew that I would. I'm going to confess, Rob, and there's a reason I stopped myself. I could have gobbled through this book in one sitting, and I stopped myself, as I do with all great reads, because since it's The Nerve's inaugural book club pick, I want the Troublemakers to have a chance to read it as well. And then we will all regroup here in a few weeks, and we'll have a group chat about the book, and we'll have Troublemakers mail in their questions to you, and it'll be super, super fun. I want to ask you a few questions though about the book. So there's a, the mail protagonist, this is based on your time hosting a talk show, like a view type talk show for VH1, and the lead male character is named James, and James bears quite a few similarities to you, is James your avatar?

Speaker 5:
[08:05] Oh, absolutely. James is who I want to be. I'm actually quite a boring person.

Speaker 4:
[08:10] I disagree, hard disagree, but go on.

Speaker 5:
[08:14] Delicious for 50 minutes on your show, but if you spend the day with me, I've already got about an hour of material, so I wear thin very quickly. James is who I would love to be. He's funny and witty and complicated. I think what we share in common is he's an optimist. I'm an optimist about life. They're so easy to get so angry, isn't it? And to get really dug in. I try not to do that. And so, yeah, so he's based on me. And because it was my first novel, it just made it easier for me to take on this project, for me to understand how to do it if I saw it through my eyes. So yes, James is me. And I pretend that in real life that my middle name is James. I'm from a real working class background. So nobody in my family had a middle name. And so at university, I went to a fancy university and everybody at my university had three names, four names, maybe six names. And so at university, I tell everybody my name is Robert James Shuter. It's not true. It's Rob Shuter.

Speaker 4:
[09:17] Rob, I love that story. And may I just say, you know, my brother has a middle name. I do not have a middle name. And I would say to my parents, you know, I come from a very similar socioeconomic background. And I would say to my parents, like, how come I don't have a middle name? And they were, my mother was like, it's extraneous. There's no, why do you need one? You know, okay, fine. Now, listen, how did you wind up, by the way? You said you wound up at a very fancy university. How'd you get there?

Speaker 5:
[09:42] I worked really hard. I realized that my way out of a life that I didn't want was to work hard. I'm not very smart, but I work hard. I'm average, but I work really, really hard. And so I realized I left school at 16 and went to work in a bank. I just didn't want that life. And I begged my parents, begged them to let me go back and take A levels that would get me into a university. And I didn't realize you had to get three A levels to get into a really good university. So I took two A levels and I needed a third one. So I did a third A level by myself in six months. And it got me into the University of Edinburgh, which is actually Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh. And so I went to this really fancy university where I didn't quite fit in, but the education was terrific and I'm lucky. The reason I can write books and do shows like yours is that I work really hard.

Speaker 4:
[10:31] Well, I would disagree with you, your self-assessment that you're not particularly bright. You're one of the wittiest people I know. And to be witty, you have to be bright. But it also makes me think of somebody who says this, and I don't think it's false modesty. I think he truly means it. Tom Brady has always said, if you looked at me as a teenager, you would never say that's a future football star. That's a future great. He said, my trick, I worked harder than everybody else. And I couldn't agree with you more. Hard work is 90% of it. It really is.

Speaker 5:
[11:02] It really is. I learnt it when I was working with Celebrity's Maureen. The one thing they had in common was not talent. It wasn't talent. It was drive. They just put in the work. And it's easy to make fun of the Kardashians. I do all the time. But if you say to Kim, you have to get up at five in the morning to do an interview, she's up. They do the work. Show up, be prepared. You know, it's like people want to get on your show. People want to get on television. It took me 20 years of work to be interesting for 20 minutes. You've got to do the work.

Speaker 4:
[11:33] It's so interesting you say that because somebody who we do not really hold in high esteem here at The Nerve, Jennifer Lopez, one of your former clients, I completely respect her work ethic. She's got it too. Also from a very similar socioeconomic background, and a Catholic school kid, and I will tell you something, as a product of Catholic school, they drill that into you. They drill into your work ethic. I couldn't agree with you more. I think that's kind of why you and I get along really well. We do. We're workers.

Speaker 5:
[12:00] We're workers. You're my maid, we're workers. Not to beat a dead horse here, but the reason your response meant so much to me is because you do. You're one of the most talented writers that I read. I read your column every time I see it in The Daily Mail. Because of you, I had to buy that 2.99 subscription thing to get like-

Speaker 4:
[12:18] That's what they're hoping.

Speaker 5:
[12:20] I was furious. I didn't do it for months. The minute they slapped it on your column, I pwned it up and say, you're welcome.

Speaker 4:
[12:29] Well, thank you. Thank you. That is high praise because I know the feeling on the receiving end of that, like I got to get through this paywall. There was a line in your book, by the way. It's really fun because there are characters who have really, really fun names that are clearly composites or based on people, and the fun is guessing who they are. I have a theory as to who Bunny Deadline may be, but we'll hold it for the Troublemakers. Then you sprinkle in all these real people like Don Lemon, and Joan Rivers, and Gayle King. But you've got this great line in there that I think is almost maybe the premise of your book and your career and guiding light of The Nerve. Show me someone who never gossips, and I will show you someone who is not interested in people.

Speaker 5:
[13:21] Talk to me about that. You found the line. That was the first line. I'm not joking. I did not tell you to say this. I did not. That was the first line that I put down when I was thinking of this book. It was the first line because for me, I'm good at telling stories. I know interactions. I'm good at dialogue. I have a really good ear to listening. I'm nosy. I've always been a nosy, curious person. So I love listening in on conversations. What I found hard was the big picture. What's the theme of this? What is this book in a sentence? And that's what it is. This book is not just about four people who have a boss from hell. That could be the Devil Wears Prada. We've all had a boss from hell. It's delicious. It's a great story. But my book is about asking the big questions about gossip, about being curious, about being nosy, because I think so many of us are taught that it's a bad thing, that you don't want to gossip. I argue that prostitution is not the oldest profession gossip is. If you go to the Temple of Dendour at the Met Museum, there's graffiti on the walls of the temple. Do you know what that is? Gossip. Everybody gossip.

Speaker 4:
[14:27] Stop it.

Speaker 5:
[14:27] I didn't know that. Everybody is gossip on the walls. When I was a little boy growing up in Birmingham, England, I couldn't play football. I wasn't not very good at sports. I've got a broken arm. The only thing that saved me was I knew everybody's secrets. It was like dangerous liaison in the playground. I knew who was dating who, who had kissed who, and it saved me. So I am happy to say, and it sounds like I'm in AA, I stand up proud. I am Rob Shuter, and I'm a gossip columnist, and I love it. If you have a secret, come and tell me.

Speaker 4:
[14:58] Rob, you're already in a slot for Nerve Award 2026. This thing about gossip is so interesting because I'm fascinated by the Temple of Dendur, which for those who may not know, it famously has its own room that was built for it at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I have a special attachment to it because Jacqueline Kennedy was partly responsible for bringing that to America. It was a gift to America. She could see it from her penthouse apartment at 1045th Avenue, which was right across the street from the temple. She and JFK, when they were in the White House and Jackie forever after, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, one of the most gossipped about women in the world, loved gossip.

Speaker 5:
[15:45] Yes, she loved it.

Speaker 4:
[15:46] Gossip is so, I think what's so great about your book, which again, it started with a whisper, go buy this book, and we're going to do a giveaway on our sub stack for five troublemakers.

Speaker 5:
[15:59] He signed five.

Speaker 4:
[16:01] He signed five, so five signed copies of It Started with a Whisper. Go to our sub stack. The idea is that gossip is forever seen as the dirty little redheaded stepchild of real news. I think that there is so much power and information, and it is no accident that the most powerful people in the world are also the biggest gossips, or the ones most interested in gossip. I was on Megyn Kelly's show not long ago, and she was saying, you know who the biggest gossip is in DC? Donald Trump. He loves gossip.

Speaker 5:
[16:43] I worked for celebrities, and it was 20 years ago when we weren't really online as much, and the weekly magazines ran the world, and every Wednesday there was one newsstand in LA that had them delivered at like 5 a.m. There was a line of celebrities around the block. Jessica Simpson loved to gossip, Jennifer Lopez loves to gossip, I worked for Alicia Keys, she loved to gossip, John Bon Jovi, gossip Kate Spade, may she rest in peace. I used to travel with Kate, and we'd turn up at the airport and she'd buy a copy of Vogue and the National Enquirer, and she'd stick the Enquirer inside her Vogue so people couldn't see she was reading it. And we sat there gasping, laughing at the stories. I love it. I think it's about communication. I think this is how stories are passed on. Liz Smith said, and I love this quote, that gossip is news running in a red satin dress. It's sexy. I couldn't agree more. Gossip's fast. It's naughty. You've got a pair of high heels on. When you think gossip, you think cigarettes smoke, and you think a red dress. That's what gossip is. When I used to work for Barbara Walters, another one that really helped my career, she was the biggest gossip I knew. And she said to me, Robert, Robert, Robert, whoever runs the gossip page at the newspaper runs the paper. She was right.

Speaker 4:
[18:02] Absolutely right. I mean, you know, page six, page six was, you know, before TMZ and social media and all of this. But there was no more powerful gossip page column in America, the Western world than page six. And if you haven't ever read this, Google page six oral history and Vanity Fair. It is one of the funniest. Like because I like I was, I feel like I was raised by page six and the National Enquirer. And on top of like, you know, at school, like our homework would be go read the New York Times. So I always had this really nice mix of stuff. And but my point was, oh, oh, oh, there's this great moment in there where I think it was Chris Wilson, maybe who says something like one day they got a call. They came up with a lot of different words that were their own on page six. And canoodling was one. And you know, so canoodling was like, you could get away with it legally. Like maybe they were making out. Maybe they were just head to head a little too close. And the first, I think the first item involved Ben Affleck and someone, a woman unknown. And the story was he called like page six and was like, what the fuck is canoodling? What are you talking about? So funny. But if I have that story, right. But before we get to today's gossip, you said you were kind of like a nosy child and so was I. As they say, woe betide the family that gets a writer born into it. Everything's material. What do you think prompted your propensity to sort of want to snoop around and find out the real story of whatever was going on, whether it's your house or the schoolyard? What do you think that was?

Speaker 5:
[19:42] I wasn't good at anything else. Find what you're good at in life and do that for a living and you'll never work a day. I just wasn't very good. I wasn't very good at math. I wasn't very good at sports. I tried to play the trumpet and I was awful. I loved it, but I just wasn't, I was never going to be the trumpet player for the New York Philharmonic. And so I was like, what am I going to do with my life? And I was like, what makes me happy when people say, I'm a happy guy and people say to me, how are you so happy? And I have a really easy tip. Write down three things that make you happy and do it every day. One of my favorite things to do is chat. I love gossiping. I love calling my phones. I love laughing. And so do it every day. And I should warn people that today's gossip is tomorrow's news. You hear it here first. Gossip is news. It really is. It hasn't quite got there yet, but it is news. And so yeah, the reason I'm good at it is that I really enjoy it and I really like it. And I've done this for a really long time. It's in my DNA like you. It's in my DNA. And I'm a bit of a troublemaker too. When I found you and The Nerve, I'm naughty. I'm naughty but nice, but I'm naughty. Nothing makes me happier than when my phone rings, somebody texts me with just a delicious piece of gossip. And it doesn't have to be bad. It can be really, really good gossip. It can be a friend of ours has just got accepted into Harvard. A friend of ours has just got a book deal. I love that. I want every person watching this to gossip about me and you tonight. You'll be doing me a favor.

Speaker 4:
[21:14] Oh my God. You're so funny. And you know, the other thing I just have to say about your book is it really, I feel your real presence and like you're all of, because you know why there is an essential warmth to your book. You know, you are unique in this world. There are a lot of people who are out for themselves, who step over anybody else to either make a headline or get a media hit. And you have such an essential just sweetness to you that I just, I find so life-affirming in this otherwise, go ahead.

Speaker 5:
[21:49] People think it's phony sometimes, and that's fine. You can think that, but it's not, and it's not going to drop. And so no, be nice, you know. My really mean friends are brilliantly interesting. I have five or six really awful people, but they really make me laugh. And I have about five or six really nice people, and they're terribly boring. So I try to be naughty but nice. If you can be in the middle, if you can be cheeky and still fun and still nice, I say all the time that I'm a pinch, not a punch. I'm not going to punch you, I'll pinch you. And I've got to be honest too, Maureen, I turn down a lot of stories. If they're too mean, if they're too nasty, that's why I'll never be the best of this. I'll never be page six. Because if you call me and I'm going to upset you, I might not run it. And so I'm good at this, but my weakness as well as my superpower is that I try to be kind.

Speaker 4:
[22:43] Well, I think that the culture is moving in your direction. And we here at The Nerve, we're happy to be your devil. We'll be the devil to your angel. I'm happy to say all the things that would never cross your lips.

Speaker 6:
[22:54] You have, you have.

Speaker 4:
[22:55] I know. Okay. Let's get to it. Rob, one of your many exclusives, Universal TV president confirms JFK Jr's secret daytime show plan before his death. While the world imagined a political future, just reading a bit from your item, he was preparing for a very different stage. Television, it was already in motion. There was a strong belief he could own daytime, the insider says. He had presence, charm, and an ease you simply can't teach. Rob, I'm so interested to speak to you about this because in the recently wrapped up love story, the Ryan Murphy series, there was a scene in which JFK Jr was aggressively fighting with his business partner saying, I'm not doing television. I'm not doing television. I'm trying to be a serious print journalist here. Your reporting is the opposite. Was this in concert with George or would this have been something he would have moved to because George was swirling the drain at the time of his death?

Speaker 5:
[24:02] A friend of mine was a big producer in television. I've been friends with this person for a really long time. They were at some sort of cocktail party and they phoned me and said, oh my goodness, I bumped into somebody at this party who ran Universal. He told me that he was in talks with JFK Jr. I said, do you think he'd give me that on the record? Because that's what makes this story so extraordinary. It's not sources. There are sources in this story. But I have on the record from the former president of Universal that they were in talks with him. And I really find that so interesting. The day of the plane crash, he spoke to the head of Universal about a show. And the team, the day he died, there was a phone call that day. And the team that was being put around him were not 60 Minutes. It was producers from Maury Povich and Sally. Sally and Maury.

Speaker 4:
[24:58] Gossip. Gossip.

Speaker 5:
[25:00] Sally and Maury were the two big shows that they produced. And so they were putting a team around him and he was really into it. He liked it. He liked the idea of being the next Phil Donahue. He liked the idea of being the next Oprah. They didn't ever get to tape it. They didn't ever get to do a pilot. Sarah Ferguson, don't forget, she taped a pilot too. In fact, Sarah was up against Ellen. They didn't know which show to take. It was going to be the Fergie show or the Ellen show, and they went with the Ellen show. So I love that I got this on the record. I texted this guy who's now retired, he's in the Hamptons, and I said, can you confirm that on the record? And he gave me a really beautiful quote about, we didn't just lose a talent, we lost a human being. And I totally get it. But within the quote, he confirmed that JFK Jr was in talks with Universal, and it wasn't the beginning. These had progressed. People I spoke to inside us told me, this was not a random conversation at a dinner party like, you should have your own talk show, George Clooney. No, this was a real plan. And so I think that it would have happened. I know a pilot would have happened. I know the money was there. I know the interest was there. I know the affiliates wanted it. He might, I don't know if it would have succeeded or not. You never know if these talk shows, but definitely I have it on the record from the president of the company. He was in talks for his own talk show.

Speaker 4:
[26:21] Rob, this is fascinating to me. You are absolutely breaking big news. This is something no one has ever reported before. What do you think? I mean, you did this for a living. It's in forms. It started with a whisper. I think there are qualities you need in order to really connect with an audience, especially if you're talking to them one-on-one. I personally don't know that John F. Kennedy Jr. could have done it. I think he was way too guarded of a person, and I think he didn't even really know who he himself was, or what it was he really wanted. I think you can't have a show revolve around a personality that feels so unformed. What do you think?

Speaker 5:
[27:09] Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. There's no coincidence here that Anderson Cooper came out publicly when he got his talk show. We all knew Anderson was gay, but he never talked about it. He never spoke about it when he was just on CNN. But when Anderson got that short-lived talk show, he came out the closet.

Speaker 4:
[27:22] I forgot about that talk show.

Speaker 5:
[27:23] That's how he came out. That's why he did it. It was because the very reason you say for talk to work, for daytime TV to work, you really have to have a relationship with your host. If there's anything phony about you, or if you've got any secrets, it's not a good idea, and he had a lot of secrets, and there was a phonyness about him. I understand why TV wanted him. He was hot. You gotta be hot. And so TV is obsessed with really good looking people. He was definitely that. They liked the name, having a Kennedy on the payroll, having a Kennedy that you could take out to meet advertisers. Remember with talk show, it's not just about the audience, it's about the advertisers. I'm sure that if you did a cocktail party with him, and invited the five biggest advertisers in the world, they'd all sign up to be on his show. But the problem that he had was that he was never comfortable in his own skin, and he had too many secrets, and it just doesn't work. Anderson Cooper is a really good example about this. He wanted a talk show, he wanted to be successful. It's just not his personality. If you know anything about Anderson, he's really, really very, very private, and you can't be like this.

Speaker 4:
[28:26] He's very tightly wrapped.

Speaker 5:
[28:27] Very tightly wrapped. I've seen him at the gym. We used to work out at the same gym. Even in the gym, he was like very, very anal, very tightly wrapped, very, very private. Although with his money, he didn't have to be working out in a gym. He could have gone to a private gym, but nevertheless.

Speaker 4:
[28:44] Well, that's perhaps, you know, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 5:
[28:46] You were saying, I'm not, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[28:48] Yeah, but you know what? That's a great point. But to what you just said about JFK Jr, what do you think, there are two things. A, what do you think the secrets JFK Jr had that made him sort of read as sort of really removed? And two, what would this have meant for his marriage? Because his wife was melting down at the media attention. And instead of sort of taking a step back, JFK Jr was going all the way in.

Speaker 5:
[29:14] Yeah, well, it tells you what that marriage was. If I was married to somebody who was melting down about what I do, I wouldn't double down on it.

Speaker 4:
[29:22] Maybe he wouldn't have married them.

Speaker 5:
[29:23] Yes, yes, yeah. And so these two were a bad fit and he could never not be who he was. It's like Megan moaning about the royal family. She knew who he was. I laugh when Ben Affleck complains about J. Lo being too... You know who she is. You know who she is. And so I think he was a very complicated person, which is why we're still talking about him. And the Kennedy brand and legacy is something that, goodness knows, you know better than anybody, is something they were all interested in. And it's also full of surprises. A lot of people have covered the Kennedys. You would think at this point, there's no more to say. But there is. There's still secrets. There's still stuff there that we're still digging. I feel like I'm excavating. I feel like I'm back at the Temple of Danduul, and I'm digging and digging like an archaeologist. And the more I dig, the more we discover. And so wildly interesting. I don't think it would have worked, but boy would I love to have been in the audience for that taping. I would have loved to have been at that pilot to see if he could pull it off. I also fear he doesn't want to work this hard. You and I make this hopefully look easy. It's a lot of work. We talked earlier in the show about doing the work. He wasn't used to doing the work. As a friend of his told me, he had to be anointed. He didn't work for the honors. He had to be given it. And so if he ever ran for politics, he needed to be appointed. He would never do the work. It's a lot of work. Jack Schlossberg at the moment is running for an office. I think he would rather just be given that congressional district. He doesn't want to kiss babies. He doesn't want to do the work. And I can't imagine somebody as entitled, somebody as privileged as JFK Jr actually turning up and taping three shows a day and in between shows, grabbing whatever to eat, something to keep going. And so the schedule of TV, which is why it makes such a fertile ground to base a novel in, it's delicious, isn't it? The Morning Show. I think A 30 Rock, I think A Mary Tyler Moore. I love these shows that are set in the world of TV because it's such a pressure cooker. And I can't imagine him surviving or thriving in that environment.

Speaker 4:
[31:44] I could not agree with you more. And as to how much work it can be, it's the same thing with The Nerve, but the difference is I love it. Like it never feels like work. It's like you get to the end of the week and you're like, we don't have more yet to do. I mean, there will be, we'll get there, but we've got a million other stories I want to talk about. And speaking of, I'm going all the way with you.

Speaker 5:
[32:06] But you've created this, you've created your own world. Had I taken your talent and tried to plug you into The View, had I taken your talent and tried to plug you into the Today Show, all of which are a possibility, you could hold your own at that table, it wouldn't be this. You've created your brand, you've created your show. You texted me, what did you say? The leader of the troublemakers. What did you sign off? It made me laugh so loud, like boss of the troublemakers or leader of the troublemakers.

Speaker 4:
[32:35] It was something like that, like your favorite troublemaker or something.

Speaker 5:
[32:39] But I think that that's what this new media landscape is allowing us to do. I was miserable on VH1 because I had to fit inside their world. We saw it with Megyn Kelly, one of the greatest talents on TV in this industry. The Today Show tried to make us something she wasn't, and that's what would have happened to JFK Jr. They would have hired him and then they would have tried to change him. So why hire him? I don't get it. But it's-

Speaker 4:
[33:07] Exactly. I have to say, before I ever knew Megyn, the first time I heard her podcast and she was cursing like a sailor, I was like, I love this person. I think this is a spirit animal. I relate, you know? Okay. So I got to ask you, Harry and Megyn, Harry and Megyn, who just wrapped up a faux royal tour of Australia. Australia, we knew you'd get through it. You're a little bit battered, but you're going to get out of bed in the morning. Rip up the Sandringham deal. Now, when you wrote this, I gasped because I thought, Rob, you're on the effing money. This week marks what would have been Queen Elizabeth's 100th birthday. They are having celebrations in London. In Britain, and these two are telling, so senior royals are sources, I should say, are telling Naughty But Nice that senior royals are quote angry and deeply disappointed. Because Harry and Meghan, they believe have ripped up the Sandringham agreement when the Queen said to them, you're either all the way in or you're all the way out. There's no half in, half out. And these two are saying, hey, guess what? That's what we're doing. We don't care if you like it, talk to me.

Speaker 5:
[34:19] Yeah, the dancing on the Queen's grave, that's what they're doing here. Queen Elizabeth made it very clear when they wanted to leave the family and be part time royals, she said, absolutely not. You're not going to use a brand that generations of my ancestors have built to sell pots of jam. Just not possible. It changes the whole dynamic. If a royal went to visit a hospital and then as they left the hospital, tried to sell you something, it changes the whole whole setup. The Queen said, absolutely not. And I believe that Harry and Megan waited. They waited for the grandmother to pass. And then they realized, we don't need your approval. And that's why this story is so delicious and so annoying. We can't stop them. Harry will always be Harry. He'll always be Diana's son. And I think a lot of people still have affection for that little boy. Was he 12 years old, 11 year old who walked behind the coffin? We're always going to remember that moment. So there's still a good reaction to Harry, not Megan, but to Harry there is. And so what Harry or maybe Megan has realized is that they don't need the royal's approval to do this. They can go to a country. Isn't it interesting? They went to a Commonwealth country too.

Speaker 7:
[35:25] This was not a neutral country.

Speaker 5:
[35:27] They went to a Commonwealth country where that dad's face is on the money. They went there to rub their noses in it. And for three days, they waltzed around like they were royals and a lot of people enjoyed them for it. And then on the last two days, they made a ton of money. My sources inside the palace said they're absolutely tearing their hair out, which is not a good thing because the Windsor men don't have that much hair. But nevertheless, they're tearing their hair out. But there's nothing they can do. What can they do? They can't stop this.

Speaker 4:
[35:54] Well, William will be king and he'll strip the titles.

Speaker 5:
[35:56] But Diana lost her titles too. He will. But remember, Diana lost her titles. They stripped the titles from Princess Diana. She was always going to be Princess Diana. Harry will always be. He might not be the Duke of Sussex, but that don't matter. Or HRH. It won't be HRH. He's Harry. And so when he turns up at a hospital, when he turns up, there's going to be a segment, a proportion of the population who still treats him like a prince. And so he's figured out, I've won. The Queen's lost. I can do this. And by doing it is a middle finger to his whole family. But in the long run here, the Royals will win because it becomes boring very quickly when there's no why. Why are you doing it? And I think once we realize they're doing it to make money, then I think everybody's going to turn on them. I find it so interesting too. The only reason we are interested in this couple is the same, is the thing they're trying to run away from. It's the Royal family. And so they use the Royal family and then they trash the Royal family. I just don't think that's right. They can step out of the family and they can trash it. But then it's not right. It's hypocritical that they're using that family for their own benefit here. So I think something's got to give eventually. The way to solve this though is not the senior members of the Royal family. It's the public. And I think they've turned, we know they have in America. We know they have in Britain. I'm not sure Australia gets as many celebrities as maybe we do and having a prince turn up in your town is a really exciting thing. But they're going to take this prototype, this rollout to other Commonwealth countries where they're going to pretend to be Royals.

Speaker 4:
[37:35] Well, good luck with them because I do think Diana was a singular, iconic and as troubled as she was, her actions are charitable. They read as genuine and people had real, real affection for her. She was right. She called it, Charles did not have what it takes to be king for the top job as she called it. In Australia, there was a petition that last week were the last reporting was it was up to 45,000 signatures. Australians who did not want them there, did not want their tax dollars protecting them. Meghan showed up at the site of the Bondi Beach Massacre, wearing an outfit that bore a shocking resemblance to what the Nazis forced concentration camp prisoners to wear. Then within 15 minutes, that look was for sale. Affiliate links, would you like to look like Meghan Markle? Thank you, no. And when they showed up at one of their last stops, I believe in Sydney, nobody was there. Nobody showed up to greet them. So this is their waning, waning power. And as we pivot to our final item, which is yet another invitation Meghan Markle has not received in her inbox, the Met Gala is coming up very soon. You have an exclusive, Rob, that Lauren Sanchez Bezos, that great vulgarian of our times, is trying to broker peace between Melania Trump and Anna Wintour. Spill what you know, please.

Speaker 5:
[39:12] So, I'm sad, I try to find who she is now. Now she has all this power. She married into this amazing wealth, but it gave her an enormous power too. She thinks that she would have ever been invited to the Met Ball without Jeff Bezos. She's crazy. And so she's got this power. And what is she trying to do with it? Of all the good things she couldn't do in the world with kids with cancer or people with AIDS or no, she's decided she's going to be the Middle East broker of power to Anna Wintour and Melania Trump. It makes me giggle, it makes me laugh, but good luck because I don't think Melania cares. We do know that she has a relationship with the Trumps. They were there at the inauguration and we know too that she has a relationship with Anna Wintour. But I think I might even be able to top myself on this story because I got a tip just minutes ago that they are slashing prices to the Met Ball because the first time in the history, it's not sold out. They still have tickets left. It's coming in a few weeks and my sources are telling me-

Speaker 4:
[40:10] Should we buy some, Rob?

Speaker 5:
[40:11] Or should we go together, me and you, and just like crash it? I think we could have a lot of fun. Let's see how well the book does. If I make a lot of money on the book, I promise you, you're my date. We're going to do this. But they're not selling. And I asked, why? What's going on? And they said, Vogue doesn't have the power it used to have. And so advertisers, these fashion houses, these designers, they felt as if they had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy Anna Winter's approval. It was almost like a shakedown. It was almost like a blackmail. When I worked with Kate Spade, Kate Spade had to buy a table to the Met Ball because if she didn't, she feared she wouldn't get any editorial in Vogue. And so the power of the ball was only because the magazine was powerful. When the magazine no longer matters, then neither does the ball. And as we know as writers, the media business, the magazine business in particular, the monthly magazine business is on its knees. Vogue is nowhere near the magazine it was 10 years ago. In fact, if you have $200,000 to buy a ticket to the Met Ball, you're better off giving it to Sweeney to do a jean commercial. You'll make more money there. She's going to sell more clothes. Sydney McSweeney is going to sell more clothes than Anna Wintour has. Anna's power is over. And once you realize that she's the emperor without any clothes on, you're not going to spend all that money to go to her ball. So cheap tickets to the Met Bowl.

Speaker 4:
[41:28] It's so true, by the way, and when you said that about Lauren Sanchez not using her powers to help kids with cancer, I'm not laughing at children who have cancer. I'm laughing at the idea that this trick, it would never occur to her to make a huge donation to St. Jude's. By the way, the real story with St. Jude's is so many of those families who bring their children there, St. Jude's does not pay for them to travel there or for their hotels where they have to stay. It's a big scandal. But the other thing I just want to say as to Anna Wintour and how everybody used to have to kiss the ring. It did. Now her power is gone and it's so great. I wrote about this. I did a fashion book years ago about fashion in the 90s called Champagne Supernovas and it's a triple biography. Alexander McQueen was one of them, like a talent like no other. She refused to cover McQueen for a very long time and I believe it was classist. He was a kid who came from a very working class background, but had talent that was undeniable. She refused to cover him. When she finally did cover him, the first feature on him in American Vogue was nasty. It was mean. They went after his looks. It was awful. Then guess what happens after McQueen kills himself. I believe a victim of a fashion industry that just worked him to the bone. Anna Wintour mounts for the Met Gala one year, Savage Beauty. The work of Alexander McQueen, which became their biggest selling exhibition at the Costume Institute of all time. I don't think the Met had seen lines like that since the King Tut exhibition in 1977. It just goes to show you with fashion how fake that world really can be. I love that Anna Wintour's Twilight years are not being spent in a victory lap, but sucking up to the likes of Lauren Sanchez who you know she wouldn't step over if she was on fire, had she not married Jeff Bezos.

Speaker 5:
[43:24] Yeah, it's an awful world. I've been twice. One year I went with Jennifer Lopez as her date to The Met, and one year I went with Kate Spade. It was awful. It was mean.

Speaker 4:
[43:33] It sounds it.

Speaker 5:
[43:34] We were uncomfortable. Nobody ate. I was at a table. I think I was at the Dolce and Gabbana table. $300,000 they paid for this table. It's like $30,000 a person. I sat at the table. Nobody ate. I had seven of the desserts. I went around that whole table and ate everybody's dessert because nobody had to think it was delicious. And it was just a miserable night of mean, mean, mean people. I couldn't wait to get home and get out of my uncomfortable clothes and sit down and hang with my friends and my family. It's a horrible night. And it couldn't happen to anybody better than Anna Winter. When you have the baton of power, when you have that baton, use it well. And Anna didn't. If I had had that power for over a decade, I would have the greatest friends that I would have looked after, I would have been kind to. And Anna just chose not to do that. And shame on her. And now, you're right, in her twilight years, now she's having to put herself on the cover of the magazine with Meryl Streep. And then her Met Ball is not selling very well. All her power came from Vogue. And she got a little ahead of herself. She started to think she was the star. She's not. It was the magazine. And now that the magazine is almost irrelevant, I could not tell you who's on the cover. I used to know Vogue magazine. Every month we knew who was in it, who was on the cover. I haven't bought it in four or five years. I haven't looked at it. It's irrelevant now. And it couldn't happen to a nicer, meaner, naughtier person.

Speaker 4:
[45:01] It couldn't. And I actually just bought Chloe Mao's first issue, because I'm going to do a review of it next week in the run up to the Met Gala. And Rob, you and I have a little something cooking regarding the Met Gala. I don't want to spoil it yet. But we will keep it. It started with a whisper. It started with a whisper. Go buy the book so you can get in on the conversation. Go to the sub stack so you can enter for a signed copy of It Started with a Whisper from Rob. We love you. We're so excited. Happy Pub Day. Can't wait.

Speaker 5:
[45:37] Thank you. Thank you, Troublemakers. Thank you, my friends. And it's not just you. Your whole staff are just great. Just great.

Speaker 3:
[45:44] Thank you.

Speaker 4:
[45:45] Thank you. You know what they say, Rob? You know what they say? They say you can judge how good a doctor is by their front desk. And I fully believe that.

Speaker 5:
[45:53] You got a good front desk. You got a good front desk, my friend.

Speaker 4:
[45:56] I'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Rob. I know it. They're the best. See you soon. All right. That was a banger of a segment with Rob. Oh my God. Okay. Coming up, your feedback. We'll be right back in a minute. We've talked about OneSkin's phenomenal products before. Now, their same longevity science is addressing hair loss with their OS1 hair scalp serum. Founded by a team of scientists, OneSkin's scalp serum is powered by their patented OS1 peptide. This works by targeting the cells in your hair follicles that contribute to shedding, thinning, and slower hair growth. OS1 hair can reactivate the growth cycle and promote thicker, fuller, denser hair, and it is drug-free, delivering effective results without harsh side effects. Clinical studies show that six months in, people saw a 43% increase in hair thickness and a 40% increase in hair density, and overall reduction in hair shedding and increased hair volume and fullness. Born from over 10 years of longevity research, OneSkin's OS01 peptide is proven to target the cells that cause the visible signs of aging. So your scalp and your hair stay healthy now and as you age. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code NERVE at oneskin.co/nerve. That's 15% off oneskin.co with code NERVE. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show. Tell them you're a troublemaker and that The Nerve sent you.

Speaker 3:
[47:41] At DSW, we ask the important questions like, what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an RSVP. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes, at the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today and let us surprise you.

Speaker 2:
[48:09] Close your eyes. Listen to monday.com. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes, go to monday.com. Start for free and finally, breathe.

Speaker 4:
[48:28] We are back and it is time for Troublemaker email. Hi, Marlena. Hi, Maureen. Let's go. There once was a psycho named Ryan. I'm sorry Troublemaker, you left out arsonist. This must be for iambic pentameter purposes whose career was certainly flying. Married a girl named Blake and even bigger fake, Justin, we know they were lying. She decided to go double down. This artist is now revealed as a clown being nasty as hell. Insiders now tell, yay, she's being run out of town. This, by the way, from a mo-bro, a straight guy who loves lots of hot heterosexual sex. Sign off. My wife and I love you guys. So does our dog, Fitzy. We listen to you on our walks. Troublemaker, Alan from Scottsdale. Hello, Troublemaker, Alan. Hi, Maureen. Troublemaker, Barbara here. As a published author who is not anywhere near as well-known as Chanel Jones, LOL, it is so incredibly sad that drivel like this gets published. I could not agree with you more. Not only published, but no doubt will make the best seller list so sad. I could not agree with you more. Kind Regards, Barbara M. S. That was baloney about Chanel's train story. She was totally lying. I don't live in New York City, but I live in Boston. I take our subway system all the time. I have been taking it for 40 years. No way in hell is anyone left on the train after service. Barbara, you're so right because otherwise the homeless would be sleeping in it all night long. No way, Barbara says. Also, no man, especially a police officer, knows who she is. We know that by this selfie, Chanel insisted her first responders take with her, in which they were basically running the other way. Chanel was like, look at my fans. It's so Norma Desmond. By the way, maybe cool it on promoting your mom book, given that the boss of your show, Savannah Guthrie's mother is missing. Timing is everything, okay? Hi, Maureen. You have said that you take requests sometimes. I do. So this Troublemaker would like to throw some requests into the mix before saying that I am correct. Thank you, Troublemaker. I love hearing nothing more than I'm right. That not all women should have been mothers and that some of us out here escaped, slashed, survived our childhoods. But that's simpleton Chanel. Everyone loves their moms. Moms are the best. Moms are great. I just want to also acknowledge, I did get some feedback from a couple of Troublemakers who were upset in describing Chanel, especially in the opening that NBC uses for The Fourth Hour with Jenna and Chanel, in which Chanel is just smiling. It's always the same smile that never reaches the eyes, but she's always high-fiving. I said she looks like a simpleton to the point where she looks like one of the kids who needs to avail themselves of special education. Troublemakers who have children, who are on that learning curve, who are struggling, I in no way meant any insult or any harm. Of course not. What I object to is a true idiot like Chanel Jones being forced on us, on the culture as if she's a voice with something to say. As if she's someone we should trust to deliver us any news. I don't even care if it's softball news. She's a fucking moron. I'm sorry her story about falling asleep. It's not true. There are a lot of holes in that story, just my opinion. To those of you who said she lost her husband not long ago to brain cancer, I'm sorry for that. But that doesn't mean that she's off limits for professional criticism. Sorry, especially not when she's out here flogging a book. No fucking way. Next up, from Troublemaker Elaine, her requests. Can you do a deep dive on Matt Drudge? What the hell happened to that guy? Why did his website go from stupid culture bomb thrower to all the time? From what I have heard and what most in the mainstream media know, Matt Drudge sold that website long ago for a lot of money. And that's why he doesn't run anymore. And that's why it feels tonally off. The reason this troublemaker says that I was thinking of him is his website was the first place I ever read, Camille Paglia, one of the spiritual godmothers of The Nerve. Camille, this troublemaker writes, that paragon of common sense, sweeping style, fabulous knowledge and wit, I love her. We love her too at The Nerve. You guys know this. I love her. I love her writing. I love her original mind. She's a true provocateur in that she says what she thinks and she challenges conventional wisdom. But you know she's never doing it just to provoke, just to shock or cause outrage. That is one of our true guiding lights here at The Nerve. We say what we mean. Other deep dives that would be interesting to me, this troublemaker says, and I like a lot of these. Okay, how Howard Stern turned into a beta male. You know, Bill from Brooklyn and I were going to talk about Howard on his most recent appearance, which was last week. And we went on for so long that we had to bookmark Howard and another topic that we are going to discuss with Bill from Brooklyn. And trust me, you're going to want his takes. Okay. Bogart and Bacall were actually in love and loved their children, classy people. I think Lauren Bacall could be a very interesting old Hollywood deep dive because she, you know, her second marriage was to, oh my God, to Jason Robards. And that was, I believe, not a happy marriage. And she was not a really happy person. Yes, do Elizabeth Taylor. Troublemaker reading my mind. I've been thinking about what slice of Elizabeth's life to begin with. I think we could do multiple on her. I also think Elizabeth is another spiritual godmother of The Nerve because she had balls and was brassy and was abroad, but she was classy. She's one of those rare stars who was both classy and earthy. And you know what? I will forever respect Elizabeth Taylor for, she had many, many children, all well adjusted. Never saw them fallin out of bars. You know, if she'd been raising them now, there's no way they'd be all over TikTok. You know what I mean? Okay. Lastly, I could not agree with you more, along with troublemaker David. Among other terrible traits, Lena Dunham has a terminal case of vocal fry. She needs a doctor. Is she releasing that book audio? With that ego, you better believe it, sister. Okay. The Nerve episode with another Bill from Brooklyn fan and you discussing Tiger Woods and Lindsey Vonn was spot on true. During the episode, I imagined Bill saying face to face to Tiger and Lindsey, cry me a river, go get yourselves some help before you kill someone else and yourself both our has beens. Time to retire to a different peak performance that is healthy. Thank you for sharing your brother with the Troublemakers. Troublemakers, it's my pleasure. When I first asked Bill from Brooklyn if he would come on the show, he really thought about it and he was a little, I think, not sure. It's a little bit out of his wheelhouse. And I was like, trust me, I know you're going to be great. You're one of the best conversationalists I know. You're one of my favorite people to talk to. And he's really, really, and I'll send him. He's not on social media. So when I get good feedback, and he only ever gets good feedback, so I'll send it to him. And he's like, he's so modest and humble about it. Like he, it's very sweet. Anyway, are you going to change Bill from Brooklyn's moniker to OG? Mo, bro, I can't do it. I can't, you know? Okay. Final email, and I love this email. And this Troublemaker, this is such an honest, vulnerable, emotionally raw email. And I thank you so much for not just writing to me and sharing this with me, but saying that it's okay for me to read it on The Nerve and share your name with all of the Troublemakers. So here we go. Hi Maureen, love the show. I just watched Your Nerve about Lena Dunham's weight. You're right about her having a weak mind. About 13 years ago, I'm so sorry Troublemaker, and I'm so glad you're on the other side of this. I am sure this will forever be with you, but it sounds like you've done some great work and are in a good place now. About 13 years ago, I was dealing with some mental issues rooted in me being a victim of child molestation. You are also a survivor Troublemaker. I ate and ate until I weighed nearly 500 pounds. After nearly dying and spending six weeks in the hospital, where I lost 90 pounds, I continued losing weight, well over 300 pounds. Good for you. That is hard, hard work with the help of a therapist. I am not only much healthier physically but mentally as well. I unfortunately think that Lena may be beyond help. So do I. This is Troublemaker Dee Dee. Troublemaker Dee Dee, we all salute you. We cheer for you. We root you on. And I agree with you. I think Lena is beyond help. And you know why? Because I don't think she wants help. I think Lena's true kink is being misunderstood, being a victim. You know, keep your feedback coming. The smartest, funniest, most insightful feedback out there. Email me at Maureen at devilmaycaremedia.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan-Writer or at The Nerve Show. And remember, subscribe to our weekly email, otherwise known as The Nerve's Substack, thenerveshow.com. Go over to our website, The Mother Ship, as it were, nerveshow.com, you will see a prompt. Would you like to subscribe to The Nerve's Substack? Say, sure. Sure I would. Put your email in and then before you know it, Friday afternoon, after the last full Nerve of the Week, in comes our Substack. And half the time, I don't even know what's in it because you know why? Teddy is commandeering it from me. And I don't know what he's up to. He won't let me see it, you know? He's getting a real, real dictator complex. Anyway, what can I do? Up next. This is, I think, one of the most, and I mean this, I mean this wholeheartedly, one of the most powerful, compelling, important interviews I think I've seen a celebrity do in a very, very long time. This is an A-lister, a glamazon. And if you're unfamiliar with her story or even have a little bit of a passing knowledge of it as I think to date, has only been doled out, understandably. She went really, really, really deep with this and this is, it's just incredible stuff, incredible stuff. So we will see you on the other side back in a minute. A lot of skincare companies out there are purporting to offer wholesome, natural products. The trouble is, most of the big names out there are owned by mega corporations and private equity firms that prioritize profit over quality. Fortunately, one company is doing things differently and that's Van Man. They started the tallow trend a few years back with their grass-fed tallow moisturizers and they have been crushing it ever since. 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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
[62:30] Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with monday.com. Relax as AI does the manual work, while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform. So flexible and intuitive, it feels like it was built just for you. Notice, you're limitless. Now open your eyes, go to monday.com. Start for free and finally, breathe.

Speaker 4:
[63:04] We're back. This segment is interesting. It's not often that we get in a very, very controlled setting. Celebrities have a lot of control over the way they present themselves. That we get an interview that I think is really important and advances our understanding of a plague such as domestic violence. Some of you may already know this. I believe this story came out without her wanting it to initially, and she did admit it was true, and I don't think has ever really gone this deep. But when Charlize Theron was, I believe, a teenage girl, her mother shot her father to death in an act of self-preservation. There was an interview she gave to the New York Times magazine that was published this weekend in both, I believe, print and on video. And we're going to listen to a little bit of it because I think it's so important. And this is going to loop back as The Nerve celebrates our first birthday, really, our first year altogether. One of the earliest segments we did was about the fundamental misunderstanding of what domestic violence is, looks like, and why it is so many women have real, real trouble getting out. This was against the backdrop of the Sean Combs trial. And they're still, you know, he's about to get out. We know this. We know it. Anyway, let's listen to Charlize, I think speaking unprecedentedly about that night. But she begins by saying how this situate, she grew up an only child, so she says she didn't even have a sibling to commiserate with or to be like, is this weird? This is weird. Here she is on the slow accretion and accumulation of the violence in her home and how she became habituated to it. Here we go.

Speaker 7:
[65:30] So strange to, you know, because all the memories are there. And it's not that I don't try and think about it, but it's just weird you kind of like going in such a linear manner that it comes almost more clear when you talk about it that way. Because people tend to just isolate it and want to talk about one thing. But it helps to kind of explain that these things build and they build. And it takes years sometimes for things to go as wrong as it did in my house.

Speaker 4:
[66:06] She spoke about her mother sending her to boarding school. In what she knew, Charlize knew, was her mother's desperate attempt to just get her out of the house. And how her mother would take her to the movies, just the two of them would go. And how Charlize knew even then that was her mother just trying to get her out of the house. And that her mother said to her at one point, I think I need to separate from your father. And Charlize wanting her mother to reconsider that, because even though there was so much violence in the house, that concept was foreign to her. This she knew. That she understood. And that's what violence in the home can do to you. It can habituate you. It can come to feel normal. Anything else that might be a safer option, that can be more frightening, more frightening. We're going to get to a particular cultural commentator when we're through with this. Charlize, this is a longer sought, but stick with it. Charlize tells the story of what happened the night her mother shot her father to death. And listen to the distancing language Charlize uses, because her father was there with her uncle. She uses distancing language. I think she strikes me as someone with a lot of self-awareness, who's been through a good amount of therapy. And I think what she has done in sharing the story is incredibly brave and incredibly useful. Here we go.

Speaker 7:
[67:49] But we had gone to see a movie and my dad had taken the key to the front. Sad, not even the front door, the front steel door. Every room in our house had a steel door. So if you got into the front door, the kitchen had a steel door that you had to unlock. That's the kind of violence that we were living in. Nonsensical violence, like violence that you couldn't reason with. It just, I mean, our country was on the brink of civil war. It was like, it was frightening.

Speaker 4:
[68:27] South Africa.

Speaker 7:
[68:28] So she couldn't get into the first block, and we always knew where he was. His brother lived a couple of streets away, and if he wasn't home, he was always there drinking. And nothing out of the usual. I mean, we went over and they were pretty loaded. And I had to pee really badly. So I ran into the house to get to the toilet. And he took that as me being really rude, because I didn't stop and say hello to everybody. Big thing in South Africa, like the kind of respect that you have to have for elders. And he was in a state where he just kind of like spiraled. Like, why didn't you stop? Like, who do you think you are? And this kind of thing started. But anyway, my mom had had a pretty bad couple of weeks with him. And I think he felt like I was kind of going through a stage of not, you know, I wasn't just going to my room anymore. I was maybe getting involved or I would protect her in the sense that I would stand up for her. And I think it had built. And that's why he was spending so much time with his family. And we left. But you could just tell you I just knew that that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back for him. I felt it. I felt like something was different. And when we got home, I sat down with my mom and I said, I think you're right. I think you should separate from him. I had never imagined that those words would come out of my mouth. But leaving that house, I knew something was just different. She knew it too. I knew he was mad at me. So eventually when he decided to come home, I said to her, please tell him I'm asleep. And so I went into my room, I turned my lights off. And because I just didn't, I was scared. And I could always tell, like my window faced the drive-in, I could always tell by the way he drove in, like the level of anger, frustration, or unhappiness. And then the way he drove into that property that night, I can't explain it to you. I just knew something bad was going to happen. She knew it too. To get to the point, he finally broke into the house. He shot through the steel doors to get into the house, making it very clear that he was going to kill us. His brother was with him as well. And yeah, we knew it was serious. And so by the time he broke into the first gate, my mom ran to the safe to get her gun. She came into my bedroom. And this is again one of those crazy things. The two of us were holding the door with our bodies because there wasn't a lock on it. And he just stepped back and started shooting through the door. And not one bullet hit us. It's insane when you think about it that way. But the verbal, I mean, the messaging was very clear. I'm going to kill you tonight. Tonight, it was verbally very, very clear. You think I can't come into this door, watch me. And I'm going to go to the safe. I'm going to get the shotgun. Let me show you how I can get through this door, that kind of stuff. Encouragement from the brother. And my mom, he had walked to the safe and my mom pulled the door open and the brother was still standing there. And the brother ran down the hallway and she shot one bullet down the hallway that ricocheted seven times and shot him in the hand. And stuff you can't explain. And then followed my father who was by then opening the safe to get more weapons out and she shot him.

Speaker 4:
[72:35] And her mother, it took, that's the point it got to. Her mother could not leave for multiple, multiple reasons. And her own daughter Charlize had had until that night not wanted her mother to separate. Let's revisit Bill Maher who has yet to apologize for or retract the following op-ed that he gave on his show Real Time with Bill Maher last year when The Nerve was around and we did it back then on Nerve episode 13. If you want to take a look at the entire response that we gave, the title of that is Bill Maher Uses Diddy to Blame the Victims. Listen to Bill Maher's strident instruction to women everywhere who are suffering at the hands of a violent man and are in the psychologically complex and dense still misunderstood plague that is domestic violence. Bill, the floor is yours, floor is yours.

Speaker 6:
[73:52] The rule should be, if you're being abused, you got to leave right away.

Speaker 4:
[73:57] How about this Bill, don't hit women. That does it. That does it for our Tuesday edition of The Nerve. Come back and see us tomorrow for The Nerve at Night and our very special one year celebration. If you haven't already, check out our sub stack at thenerveshow.com. Be sure to subscribe plus Nerve merch, grab something for yourself or pick something up for fellow troublemaker at shopthenerve.com. We will see you back here tomorrow at The Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next.

Speaker 8:
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