transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw is my co-host today. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. Our phone number here is 888-825-5225. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Sean is in Fargo, North Dakota. Hey, Sean, what's up in your world?

Speaker 2:
[00:41] Well, not much, Dave, just enjoying my life.

Speaker 1:
[00:44] Good, how can we help?

Speaker 2:
[00:47] So, I am kind of stressed out right now in the little, it's kind of in a pickle, it feels like, with my family. They are give or take five to six million dollars in their family business debt. And I am struggling to, struggling to cope with, my dad has been failing health, and he owns the family business, and he is not worried about the major debt that his business has.

Speaker 1:
[01:23] Okay. Do you work there?

Speaker 2:
[01:27] Part time.

Speaker 1:
[01:28] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[01:28] Because I can't, I can't handle full-time.

Speaker 1:
[01:32] Can't handle it. What do you mean? You can't handle him?

Speaker 2:
[01:36] No, just the ideology he has and the business feelings.

Speaker 1:
[01:41] Okay. So why is it bringing you stress? You have a part-time job with a business that's in trouble, and with a guy whose ideology you don't, uh, agree with. Why would that be, cause you to be stressful?

Speaker 2:
[01:54] I will be most likely be inheriting it with my three brothers, the business, which is probably worth around $10 million. And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the business side of it to pretty much be full-time.

Speaker 1:
[02:16] When are you supposed to do that?

Speaker 2:
[02:19] Um, probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

Speaker 1:
[02:27] I'm so confused. Okay. Yeah. I mean, so you're going to be part-time with the guy you disagree with while he runs a business in the ground for the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Why don't you just say, I don't want it? I don't want it.

Speaker 2:
[02:46] Because, so I, I mean, it's a good, I shouldn't say it's a good business, but is it really worth it? Because he tries to get me to go full-time, like almost weekly, on a weekly basis.

Speaker 3:
[03:04] Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things. So it makes sense that we would say-

Speaker 1:
[03:11] Your scribe here sounds like something I want to do. Why would you want to do this?

Speaker 2:
[03:15] Yeah. So is it, so I guess I want to ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, yo, we shouldn't start taking out this debt? Because they're thinking about adding another-

Speaker 1:
[03:30] Who's they?

Speaker 2:
[03:30] $125 million debt to my, my family.

Speaker 1:
[03:34] Your brothers.

Speaker 2:
[03:36] Yeah, my brothers.

Speaker 1:
[03:36] Who are your future partners?

Speaker 2:
[03:37] They want to grow another million dollars in the debt.

Speaker 1:
[03:39] Who are your future, who are your future partners?

Speaker 3:
[03:43] I think-

Speaker 2:
[03:43] All my brothers.

Speaker 3:
[03:44] Yeah, but you said-

Speaker 1:
[03:44] I know, but you're saying your brothers are as dumb as your dad.

Speaker 3:
[03:47] You said it before yourself, Sean, you said their ideology is completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that, that that's the case. And you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology. And so if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part time.

Speaker 1:
[04:08] What do you do for a living?

Speaker 2:
[04:11] I operate heavy equipment.

Speaker 1:
[04:13] All right. Are you the baby of the family?

Speaker 2:
[04:16] No, no, I'm not. Second oldest. No, third oldest.

Speaker 1:
[04:19] Middle. Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change, do you?

Speaker 2:
[04:28] No, I don't.

Speaker 1:
[04:29] Okay. So you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bullcrap.

Speaker 2:
[04:35] Yeah, that's the one way to put it.

Speaker 1:
[04:37] I mean, you really do. You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be. If it's me, I'm going to let them have it. I'm going to walk away. This sounds like a bear trap. Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off. It's going to, the next 10 years of your life are going to be pure freaking misery till the old man dies. And then when he dies, now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers. No, thank you. I don't want in this.

Speaker 2:
[05:02] For sure, for sure.

Speaker 1:
[05:03] Yeah, I just, I, I, there's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be. This all sounds like misery. And there's not enough money there to food with. Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing. Yeah. And you don't believe that. You're still, you think, your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars and you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debt. That's what you're walking away from.

Speaker 3:
[05:27] In 15 years?

Speaker 1:
[05:28] I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the dad and say, guys, I'm uncomfortable with this much debt and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt because it makes me uncomfortable. I don't agree with this. And I can love you. And if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son. We can still be brothers. I can still love you. But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it. And so if you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddlebags.

Speaker 3:
[06:23] Listen, I agree with that 100 percent. Clearly easier said than done.

Speaker 1:
[06:27] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[06:27] Because you're going to have basically your whole family on this side and you're the Lone Ranger over here. That's not easy, but I agree 100 percent.

Speaker 1:
[06:34] Well, the thing is you put everybody on notice and a 100 percent chance they're not going to do it.

Speaker 3:
[06:38] No.

Speaker 1:
[06:39] And so you're basically saying, here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life over here and I'm going to love you. I've got family members. Most of my family members don't know the stuff I teach. But I'm not in a deal with them either and I still love them. Some of them even vote wrong and I still love them. But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them. It doesn't mean I have to sit around and be stressed and I'm like somehow guilted into joining something I completely disagree with. No, walk away from it son, it ain't worth it. You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation without any debt.

Speaker 3:
[07:14] That's probably the other part of it is there's a lure that maybe there's like that maybe just possibly one day it could be good then you look back and you're like, man, I should have stayed part of it, right? He's probably thinking about that little one or 2%.

Speaker 1:
[07:28] Yeah. It's like I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it doesn't bite. What do they do? They bite. It's dumb. You're just asking for it. Don't think they're going to change. They only do how to do one thing and it's bite. So don't be shocked when they bite. I mean, it's just your dad, this is what he does. He's a predictable environment and he didn't hide it. He just said, that's who I am.

Speaker 3:
[07:49] Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1:
[07:50] He kind of said like it or lump it.

Speaker 3:
[07:51] So I lump it.

Speaker 1:
[07:52] That's what I do. I mean, it's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when all the family ties. It feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

Speaker 4:
[08:02] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[08:04] Gravitational pull. Yes. Drama has a gravitational pull. I've noticed that.

Speaker 1:
[08:08] Drama. Family drama will suck you in and eat your life. Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it, just for the fun of it. Yeah. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business. Accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com/ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com/ramsey. Martina is in Phoenix. Hi, Martina, what's up?

Speaker 5:
[10:17] Hi. I, two and a half years ago, I bought a car, and it's a good car to 2018 Corolla. But I have a 16.5% interest on it, and over half of my payments go only to interest. I'm actually the co-signer on the car, and my mother is the main signer on the car. And I have had job instability, hobby instability over the years, and I'm just now putting my life together. But currently, I haven't even been able to make my February car payment. So I also rely on this car as a source of income. So what is your advice on the car?

Speaker 3:
[11:04] I would look for a different, I would start looking for a different source of income that's not tied to this car. My guess is you're doing one of the delivery apps.

Speaker 5:
[11:14] Yeah, I'm actually a Lyft driver. I had a dead-end job, I quit that. But I got a new job that is a really good job. But it doesn't start for a couple more weeks. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[11:28] How much are you going to be making at the new good job?

Speaker 5:
[11:32] About $3,000 to $4,000 a year.

Speaker 1:
[11:34] You mean a month?

Speaker 5:
[11:36] A month. I mean, sorry. A month. I am a swim instructor and I'm contracting with a pool that pays very well for their lessons.

Speaker 3:
[11:46] Okay. Then what do you owe? What's the total amount owed on this car?

Speaker 5:
[11:52] I owe $16,200 and I originally paid $18,500.

Speaker 3:
[11:57] Have you looked to see what it's worth? If you looked on Kelly Blue Book, have you looked to see what it's worth private sale?

Speaker 5:
[12:03] Yes, it's worth $7,500. Oh, boy.

Speaker 3:
[12:05] What happened to it?

Speaker 6:
[12:07] She's been driving over.

Speaker 3:
[12:09] Oh, yeah, that's true, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[12:10] It's on and off.

Speaker 3:
[12:11] Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, then, your only choice here, I mean, you're going to have to pay it off because it's such a low value. And you're going to have to work quickly to do it. Is it your only debt?

Speaker 5:
[12:21] Definitely not. I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up dropping out of school due to mental health issues. And I have about $25,000, $20,000 to $25,000 in personal loans and credit cards. And then I have an un, I don't even know how many thousands of dollars in medical debt. I don't even like know.

Speaker 3:
[12:45] So you're going to be doing, you'll be doing swim lessons at this place. How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool to make $4,000 a month? Or is there a base pay?

Speaker 5:
[12:55] Because I make, I'm going to be making about $30 to $40 an hour.

Speaker 3:
[13:01] Still my question stands.

Speaker 1:
[13:02] Are they going to work you 40 hours?

Speaker 5:
[13:06] That's the plan. But yeah, that's the problem is that it does depend on how many clients they get. They do get a lot of clients.

Speaker 3:
[13:14] Yeah, I'd be looking really deeply into that first off. And my homework for you leaving this call is I would have something else lined up that gives me the ability to work. Because you don't know how many clients they're going to send your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going to fill up. And you've got to get started on this debt ASAP. Because here's the thing, if you default on another payment, it's really going to mess with your mom. I'm sure it already has, right?

Speaker 5:
[13:37] Yeah, I feel bad for my mom. And my mom does try to help when she can, but she's a single mom raising my teenage brother with special needs. So she's already strapped a lot.

Speaker 1:
[13:50] What we've got to start with, let's go back to basics, right?

Speaker 5:
[13:53] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[13:53] Before you do anything else with money, you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing, transportation, and utilities. Okay. Do you pay rent?

Speaker 5:
[14:07] I do. And I live in the smallest, cheapest apartment I could find here in Phoenix. And I-

Speaker 1:
[14:13] Perfect. So you pay the rent. So you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store. You get the car current before you do anything. All the other debts can wait till you pay rent, get the car current, get food on the table. Okay. Before you do anything, you got to build a basic foundation in your life. And that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Okay. Now, once you're current on the car, then you can decide, let's reach out to the store, send loan people, let them know you need a hardship deferral, and send them some of the paperwork on some of the mental illness issues you've had, and just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on for a little while while they wait around, you do nothing, you quit paying them for right now. And then you get this book of business at the the swim lessons at full as fast as you can. And Jade's right, in the meantime, and even after, I want you to work all the time. Because what you need to fix your whole life right now is $16,000.

Speaker 5:
[15:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:24] If you had $16,000 and this car payment was gone, we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

Speaker 5:
[15:31] Yeah, it feels like that car loan is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my life.

Speaker 1:
[15:37] Agreed, agreed. So we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for eight months. And smack this thing in the head.

Speaker 5:
[15:49] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[15:50] But that means like all you do is work, girl. You just work all of it. And it's not Uber. Freaking Uber is making the car worse. Okay. You're putting so many miles on it, you've destroyed the value of the car. So. Yeah. But if they, if you could, if you can work 80 hours a week with swim lessons, just put your fins on and go. Right? Yeah. I mean, if you can't get, if you can't get a bunch of hours down there, then let's find something else that you can do. That's the thing where you make the most possible money that's moral and legal. Okay. And I want you to go cray cray for a while. Because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it, and the dynamite is dollar bills.

Speaker 5:
[16:35] Okay. I like that.

Speaker 1:
[16:37] And you just say, food, shelter, lights and water, and pay off the stinking car. And that's all I am breathing to do right now. I breathe in and out every morning. I'm tired because I work all the time. But by God, I'm making progress for the first time in five years.

Speaker 5:
[16:57] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[16:58] You can do this. You can do it. What was the nature of your mental illness stuff?

Speaker 5:
[17:04] I have a level one high functioning autism. And that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full time job.

Speaker 1:
[17:12] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[17:13] And then I also have, because of that stem, some anxiety and depression.

Speaker 1:
[17:17] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[17:18] I have, over the last few months, gotten on the right meds, got into the stable housing, and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable. I'm trying to do baby step one right now.

Speaker 1:
[17:27] Well, here's the thing. Here's what I've worked with. In 35 years of doing this, I've worked with a whole bunch of people that both had high level functioning autism, and I've worked with a whole bunch of people that had depression. And the thing I know is, the depression is made worse when you feel trapped, and when you're not in action mode. When you get in action mode, and get in warrior mode, and get in attack mode, it helps because it releases the dopamine and other things, and it helps to melt away the depression. And the high-functioning autism can actually work in your favor in those situations, because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't you?

Speaker 5:
[18:09] Yeah, I'm really good at teaching people to swim, and actually the gym I'm working at is called Ability 360, and it's actually an adaptive gym, and most of their employees have some kind of disabilities.

Speaker 1:
[18:20] Okay. And anything you can do to help people work out, if you could do a personal trainer thing going.

Speaker 3:
[18:25] I was going to say you need to go to the school system to teach it.

Speaker 1:
[18:26] What we're going to do is use all of this situation to your advantage, the thing that has been a blocker for you. Because as you start melting away these debts, first and foremost you get this car off your back, off your mother's back, your brain is going to clear up. The fog that you've been walking in, the stress-related anxiety of feeling trapped in 16% and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16%, too. That was dumb. So you're not dumb, but that was dumb. So what you do is you get in an attack mode, warrior girl. You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it. Complete focus. I don't want you to pay anybody else. Just let them all go bad. I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit. We know that because you had a 16.8% car payment. We know your credit is trash already. So I'm not worried about that at all. I'm worried about you. I want you to be free. So you hang on and we'll get you signed up for every dollar and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well. If you're at the point where you think bankruptcy is your only option, stop for a minute. You might have another way out. Guardian Litigation Group. Most debt relief programs sell you on the illusion of protection, but a crappy legal plan, tacked on as an upsell, doesn't actually defend you when you get sued. It just leaves you confused and exposed. Guardian is different. They're not some call center, they're real attorneys. And with Guardian, you're assigned an attorney from day one. That means if your creditor sues, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprised legal fees. Now listen, I'm always going to tell you the best way out of debt is the old fashioned way. Clean up the mess and pay it off. But if bankruptcy is staring you in the face, Guardian gives you a legitimate alternative. They've helped over 55,000 people settle more than $600 million in debt. So before you make a decision that follows you for years, go to guardianlit.com/ramsey. That's guardianlit.com/ramsey.

Speaker 7:
[21:02] Attorney advertising, results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed.

Speaker 1:
[21:16] Greg is in Nashville. Hey, Greg, how are you?

Speaker 2:
[21:20] I'm good, how are you?

Speaker 1:
[21:21] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2:
[21:24] So, I have some whole life policies that me and my wife got like, once we were like 20, I'm 15, probably 55 this year.

Speaker 1:
[21:34] I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:
[21:35] And I know, I know, I've heard, I've been listening to you for the last year or so, but my question is on it, should we cash surrender those? There's each about 100,000 cash surrender.

Speaker 4:
[21:51] I don't think we have to pay on anymore.

Speaker 2:
[21:53] I think they've, we've had them since we were so young, that I think they pay for themselves each year now.

Speaker 1:
[22:00] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[22:01] And I don't know if it's worth, I don't necessarily need, I mean, I could always use extra money, but I don't know if it's worth doing the cash surrender on those policies or just leave them. They're small. I think they're $150,000 policies or something like that when we got them originally.

Speaker 1:
[22:18] So you have $150,000 policy with $100,000 cash value. Is that right?

Speaker 2:
[22:23] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[22:24] And you have two of them.

Speaker 2:
[22:26] I suppose it grows, like they sold you out on that stuff when you were young.

Speaker 1:
[22:29] No, I'm going to make sure I understand what you've got. Stop a second. Do you have two $150,000 policies and each of them have $100,000 cash value in them?

Speaker 4:
[22:40] Yes, if we were to surrender them now.

Speaker 1:
[22:42] That's what I'm asking. Okay, good. And so if you die, you know they keep the $100,000, right? So you have $50,000 worth of insurance in essence. Do you follow me?

Speaker 4:
[22:55] Yeah, I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows and that I didn't understand.

Speaker 1:
[22:59] I don't understand it either because it's the biggest screw drop of the middle class in my life I've ever seen. But it happens all the time. So that's how a whole life policy works.

Speaker 2:
[23:07] I mean, I do have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago.

Speaker 1:
[23:11] Okay, so you're covered if you die, right? You don't need them.

Speaker 8:
[23:14] Yeah, no.

Speaker 2:
[23:16] And my question is even about the term, too, is like, do I need to keep that up if my value or like my personal value or me, my wife's value is over that amount? Should I, like, do I need that life insurance or is it this?

Speaker 1:
[23:33] Well, what life insurance is for is to take care of her if something happens to you. If you have $5 million in mutual funds, you don't need life insurance. She's taken care of.

Speaker 2:
[23:48] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[23:48] That makes sense? Yes. What life insurance for is to take care of you if something happens to her. And if you have a big pile of money, and you're okay without her income, then she doesn't need your self-insured on all of it. Okay. Then back to the whole life, the whole life is paying an average of about 2% in growth on that $100,000. Had that $100,000 been in mutual funds last year, it would have made 24%. On average, it would have made more like 12%. So, you're losing somewhere around $10,000 to $20,000 a year in growth because that's so poorly invested. Oh, and by the way, when you die, they're going to pay $150,000 out.

Speaker 2:
[24:38] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[24:39] Not a hundred. Not plus $100,000.

Speaker 2:
[24:42] Do I have to pay? If we do the cash surrender, do we have to pay tax on that?

Speaker 1:
[24:46] Your tax basis in a whole life policy is what you have paid into it over all these years. I suspect you've paid $100,000 into this over all these years.

Speaker 2:
[24:57] I would assume that it has been over 20 years.

Speaker 1:
[24:58] So your basis is probably higher. It almost always is. If it's not, it won't be by much. So if you have taxes, it will be very, very, very small. But if you just say, here's what my premiums were over this number of years and number of months or whatever it is, the 25 or 30 years you've been getting ripped off, then easily you probably paid in 100K. You're going to get your money back out. And yes, I would cash it in. And if what did you, what do you think your net worth is?

Speaker 4:
[25:31] I mean, I think it's close to six, maybe. Six million?

Speaker 2:
[25:34] I mean, if I were to sell everything.

Speaker 4:
[25:36] Yeah, if I were to sell everything.

Speaker 1:
[25:38] So do you think the current asset base would generate enough income for your wife to be okay if you died today?

Speaker 9:
[25:44] I mean, I think so. I hope so.

Speaker 1:
[25:46] I hope so, too. Yeah, I think pretty easily.

Speaker 2:
[25:49] I mean, that was kind of one of my other questions is I got this, I got some industrial property that I don't necessarily need anymore, that I have, that I still owe about, I mean, if I were to sell it, I could cash that out for about two million bucks, maybe, after taxes, but I do make income on that.

Speaker 1:
[26:13] It's up to you. What do you want your money invested in? That's an investment. And then you look at it and say, is this an investment that's given me enough yield on my money? I mean, long-term investment, you ought to be making 10-plus percent on, whatever it is, real estate, mutual funds, whatever. There's not really anything else that you should, that's barely low-risk portfolio that will do that. Mine make a lot more than that, and I don't take a lot of risk. So but you got to look at that piece of industrial property. Is it making you a good return? And then dump that. But folks, the whole life cash value policy is the biggest ripoff in the financial planning world. I mean, it's like the payday lender to the middle class. You know, payday lender screws poor people, right? And these people screw you. And it's a horrible rate of return. When you die, they keep your money, because you've been paying extra for this savings account that you don't get. They only pay the face value when you die. It's that simple. And so get some inexpensive term insurance while you need insurance. This guy didn't even need that anymore, probably. And put your money, your investment money in good investments that go up and they don't keep it when you die. And then you're not building a building in the skyline for somebody else. Where you think those life insurance buildings came from? They didn't come from Santa Claus. I know that. The same place those banks came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. It came from them screwing you with credit cards all these years. And you're just smiling and going, I got airline miles. And you're just getting screwed over and over and over again. And it's just, you know, that's how this stuff happens. It's called a transfer of wealth from you to them because they're screwing you. So you just learn about these things and go never again. Changes everything. James is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, James. How are you?

Speaker 9:
[28:12] Doing well. How are you?

Speaker 1:
[28:13] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 9:
[28:17] Okay. I have my youngest sister. She and her ex-boyfriend inherited a quarter million dollars about three to four years ago. He has since passed from cancer. And he, at the time I was going through a messy divorce. And he gave me $6,000 to pay for my lawyer so I can take care of my divorce. I was going through a rough time as a gift. And since then, you know, he's passed out, like I said. And she has blown through all that money in the meantime and is back to square one again. Wow. And yeah, and she has not come out and said directly to me. But I heard it through my other sister. And she keeps asking, you know, saying, hey, he needs to pay back that $6,000. You know, that was my money.

Speaker 3:
[29:19] And so she's saying that the boyfriend got the money from her and lent it to you?

Speaker 9:
[29:25] No, no, no. It was his parents. It was his inheritance from his parents.

Speaker 3:
[29:30] Oh, okay.

Speaker 9:
[29:30] Yeah. And I can afford to pay it back. Now, I'm in a good spot in my life and I can afford to pay it back. I just don't feel like I have to. I've helped her out with bills and stuff. Now that she's moving, I have a lot of money, like the occasional electric bill and things like that, where she's called me up and said, hey, can you know, I've done stuff like that for her.

Speaker 1:
[29:52] Y'all are a hot mess, aren't you?

Speaker 9:
[29:55] Yeah, right.

Speaker 3:
[29:57] Are you afraid that she's going to do, you're like, why do I give her another $6,000 to be irresponsible with, is what you're saying?

Speaker 9:
[30:06] She has three kids with them, they're a little older, 17, 18, and that range.

Speaker 1:
[30:12] Well, James, there's two options, okay? The third option is not keep whining about it, okay? I would either call her and say, your boyfriend gave me this money, it's a gift. I'm not going to pay it back. Or I'd write her a check. But third option, I'm going to keep whining about this, and y'all keep this family drama going on, on, on. And who said what, and who told George this? And good Lord, for $6,000? Straighten it up, man. At Ramsey, we don't partner with companies chasing trends or pushing gimmicks. Trust is earned, and that's why we send people to Fairwinds Credit Union. See, a lot of banks rely on teaser rates, marketing hype and fine print, but that's not how Fairwinds operates. They've been serving members for 75 years, and you don't last that long by cutting corners, you last by serving people well. There's a reason their name is on the studio wall. They've built products that help you manage money intentionally, not pull you into debt. If you're looking for a practical way to organize your money the Ramsey way, check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle. It pairs a high-yield savings account for your emergency fund with a checking account that doesn't drain your balance with fee after fee after fee after fee. Open your Fairwinds Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsey and get the Ramsey Be Weird debit card. That's fairwinds.org/ramsey.

Speaker 10:
[32:07] Insured by the NCUA.

Speaker 1:
[32:22] Leland is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Leland, how are you?

Speaker 4:
[32:26] All right, how are you?

Speaker 1:
[32:27] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 4:
[32:31] So I've got a question. I'm 22 years old, and I started a business last year, and it's kind of just went backwards on me, where I'm to the point now where I've got a piece of equipment that I'm sitting here staring down the barrel of a gun, where they're basically probably gonna have to kind of repossess it the 1st of April.

Speaker 1:
[32:47] So you started what kind of business, hon?

Speaker 4:
[32:51] Custom Dry Fertilizer Spreading Business.

Speaker 1:
[32:54] Okay. And so you bought, what is the equipment?

Speaker 4:
[32:59] It's an applicator that applies dry fertilizer on fields.

Speaker 1:
[33:05] And how much do you owe on it?

Speaker 4:
[33:08] $178,000. My annual payment on it is $40,000 a year. And everything's just went backwards.

Speaker 1:
[33:19] I'm confused why they would loan a 22 year old $178,000 on a piece of farm equipment.

Speaker 4:
[33:26] Well, because I had a way to get into the business. And then since then, it's just went backwards. Since then, I had the money for a down payment, put the money down.

Speaker 1:
[33:36] How much did you put down?

Speaker 4:
[33:39] $12,000.

Speaker 1:
[33:41] But still, I mean, you were not even, were you in the business already?

Speaker 4:
[33:45] I've been in agriculture business all my life.

Speaker 1:
[33:48] You're 22.

Speaker 4:
[33:50] Yes, sir.

Speaker 1:
[33:51] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[33:51] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[33:53] All my life is not long.

Speaker 4:
[33:56] Well, I've been doing it ever since I could...

Speaker 1:
[33:58] I know, honey, but I'm talking about what moron loans you $178,000 with a $12,000 down payment when you're 22 years old. There's nothing, there's nothing that says this deal should have happened.

Speaker 3:
[34:11] Leland, you can't turn around and sell it?

Speaker 4:
[34:14] I've been trying to, and I've tried selling it with an auction company, but they wanted me to put $100,000 upfront before they'd even sell it.

Speaker 1:
[34:22] Yeah. And so you had grand plans of spreading a lot of fertilizer. What happened?

Speaker 4:
[34:30] I put my name out within a 100-mile radius in the farm economy the way it is. Fertilizer prices is high and there's not a lot of people doing dry. They're all going different routes.

Speaker 1:
[34:44] Oh, I'm sorry, hon. This is scary, isn't it?

Speaker 4:
[34:48] Yeah, it definitely is. It's definitely scary to be sitting here in this position. It's just been haunting me ever since.

Speaker 1:
[34:55] I guess. All right. Well, I went broke when I was 28 and I had more zeros on the end of my stupidity than you do. So I got you beat.

Speaker 4:
[35:05] Right.

Speaker 1:
[35:06] Because this was straight up stupid. And the guy that loans you the money deserves to lose $100,000. Whatever company did this? What's the name of the company?

Speaker 4:
[35:16] I can't remember off the top of my head.

Speaker 1:
[35:18] And you owe them $178,000 and you don't know the name of the company?

Speaker 4:
[35:22] Well, I do. It's on a piece of paper at my house. And I don't have that information in front of me.

Speaker 1:
[35:28] You bought it at a dealership, didn't you? What brand is it?

Speaker 4:
[35:33] John Deere.

Speaker 1:
[35:34] Yeah, I guess so. So you don't know John Deere incorporated the money?

Speaker 4:
[35:39] No, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 1:
[35:41] Okay. All right.

Speaker 4:
[35:43] And my plan was, you know, do 10,000 acres a year. That can be done extremely easy. And I found out the hard way that it has not been near as easy as what everybody said it was supposed to be.

Speaker 1:
[35:55] So the moral of the story is we don't borrow money to start businesses because things never turn out exactly the way they're supposed to in business. That's the real business. And so that's a lesson that sadly you have learned. The only good news is you learned it at 22. I learned it at 28. So I had the rest of my life to not do that stupid mistake again. And you have the rest of your life to not do the stupid mistake again. So the next time you have a bright idea and someone wants to loan you money to do your bright idea, you tell them no, right? Yes, sir. Okay, good. All right. So we've learned our lesson. Now let's walk through it. I'm so sorry, hon. So I do not know a way around this because I don't know your world. I'm still just sitting here aghast that someone loaned you that money. Loans you $178,000 to spread fertilizer. There's just so many fertilizer jokes that I could weave into this. But they just roll off the mind right now. But anyway, the spreading fertilizer is pretty thick here. But the, so let me tell you what I think is going to happen and how you can handle it. Okay? I think you're going to get repoed at the first of the month. I don't know how to tell you to stop that with anything that's reasonable. One thing you could stop it with is a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, or a Chapter 11 bankruptcy even in this case. But that's a pipe dream because the business idea is dead and there's no way to revive the cash flow. If you could revive the cash flow starting two months from now, we could delay the repo and put it by putting it into a bankruptcy. But I wouldn't do that here because I think this business idea is just a swing and a miss. Right. So I think they're taking it at the first of the month. Okay. Then what's going to happen is they're going to sell the piece of equipment for X number of dollars at that same auction. And then they're going to come knocking on your door for the difference. It's called the deficit. Okay. So let's play pretend. Let's play pretend. And it's 178,000 owed. And they sell the piece of equipment for 100,000. And they come see you for 78,000. You're 22 years old. You don't have any money. Right. That's where we're going to be. It's probably going to be a year before they knock on your door wanting the difference. It's not going to be soon. And when they do, normally what happens is they push you and push you and the person files bankruptcy and they get nothing on their 78,000 in our example story here. Okay. However, you have a year to prepare for this battle and were you to save up during this coming year by working your little tail end off $25,000 and you offer them $25,000 as a settlement in full on the deficit, they will probably take it because they are used to getting nothing. Alright. We settle deficits on car repos at $0.20, $0.25 on the dollar every day. I have not done it much on farm equipment so I don't know that world, but it is probably pretty close. And the reason we are able to settle those deficits at that is because they very seldom collect anything. Usually the person files Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they get a big goose egg zero. Especially, when you look at it through the creditor's eyes, not to put you down Leland, but looking at it from the banker's perspective, I am trying to get money out of a 23-year-old who is broke. The likelihood of that is close to zero. So if he stands up and offers me $25K, I do a little happy dance and take it if I am the banker. You follow me? So what are you going to do for a living now that your life is starting over, sir?

Speaker 4:
[39:46] I mean, I am pretty much self-employed and I mean, I don't have a college degree.

Speaker 1:
[39:53] What are you going to do for a living, sir?

Speaker 4:
[39:56] I am going to farm.

Speaker 1:
[39:57] You are going to farm? Whose farm are you farming?

Speaker 4:
[40:02] Some friends.

Speaker 1:
[40:04] You are going to work on a farm?

Speaker 4:
[40:06] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[40:07] For someone else?

Speaker 4:
[40:09] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[40:10] And what does that pay?

Speaker 4:
[40:12] It just depends. Sometimes $25 an hour depending on who you are working for.

Speaker 1:
[40:17] Okay. All right. And then ask yourself, what do I want to be doing when I am 32 that I am a millionaire and it is not $25 an hour work. I will help you with that.

Speaker 4:
[40:26] Yes, sir.

Speaker 1:
[40:27] And it is not going into that $178,000 to spread manure? Oh, no. This was dry. I am sorry. But anyway, you see the point. So you have to figure out what am I going to do next? Because one of the things that I discovered when I went bankrupt, because I couldn't turn it around the way I think you actually can turn it around, if you will work like a crazy person and stack cash and keep your living expenses very, very low, I think you can scratch up some cash and settle the deficit when they do come after you one or two years from now. Don't call them. Wait for them to call you and in the meantime, build a war chest and then settle it in full in writing settlement. And I think you can get through this. I really do. And then you could just look at this in the rear view mirror is that dumb thing I did when I was 22. I can look at my life in the rear view mirror, that whole series of dumb things I did when I was 28. You can you guys paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars because of dumb things you did in your early 20s.

Speaker 3:
[41:27] A lot of stupid things.

Speaker 1:
[41:28] Yeah, and so it's, you're talking to the choir here, okay? Singing to the choir. But I do want you to develop a future and a plan that doesn't involve a Hail Mary. You threw a Hail Mary into the end zone and got intercepted. Don't do that again. Learn from the mistake. And we'll walk with you. Anything you need, Leland, you call me. And if you want to save up that money and when they mess with you, you call me. I'll walk you through it. I'll show you how to negotiate with them.

Speaker 10:
[42:10] Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

Speaker 1:
[42:18] You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly, everything changes.

Speaker 10:
[42:26] Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Speaker 1:
[42:33] Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance.

Speaker 10:
[42:49] Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

Speaker 1:
[43:03] Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

Speaker 10:
[43:21] And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling.

Speaker 1:
[43:28] I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family.

Speaker 10:
[43:34] So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Speaker 1:
[43:42] Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. Diane is in Chicago. Hey, Diane, how are you?

Speaker 11:
[44:15] Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

Speaker 1:
[44:17] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 11:
[44:19] Oh, yeah, same here. Well, thank you for taking my call. I currently have quite a bit of money in the bank, I feel. And I am thinking about my retirement, and I'd like to know how best I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement.

Speaker 3:
[44:40] How much is it?

Speaker 11:
[44:44] So I have $600,000 in the bank. Wow. I'm debt free. I have just $250,000 in retirement, which I don't know what to do with because it's been with the payroll service since we had owned our own business. And it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it. I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. I stayed home and took care of our kids, raised them, and have decided to go into my own franchise. And so I know that I will be using some of that money for the franchise, but I don't know that just sitting in a bank is the best place for it.

Speaker 1:
[45:24] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[45:24] How old are you?

Speaker 11:
[45:26] 57.

Speaker 1:
[45:27] Okay. And you said you were not involved in the business, and now you're opening a franchise with the business money.

Speaker 8:
[45:36] Yes.

Speaker 11:
[45:36] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[45:38] So your husband was running the business?

Speaker 11:
[45:41] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[45:42] Where is he?

Speaker 11:
[45:47] He's at home. He is supporting me on my business. He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own. But everything's been in my name. The bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year, and then...

Speaker 1:
[46:08] That's where the 600 grand came from?

Speaker 11:
[46:11] Yeah. We sold it for 1.2 million, but we were given a large lump sum, and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts.

Speaker 3:
[46:20] Like, okay, unknown. You're being cryptic.

Speaker 11:
[46:26] I didn't know about it.

Speaker 1:
[46:28] You're going to have to tell us what's going on, because it's not making sense.

Speaker 11:
[46:33] My husband has a gambling debt. I don't know what he... He gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects, and he uses that for extracurricular activities. I have no idea what he uses it for.

Speaker 3:
[46:46] You don't know how much he's...

Speaker 11:
[46:48] Oh, no. I know how much he gets. He gets $3,600 a month, and that's his play money.

Speaker 1:
[46:54] So he's basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt, and that's why everything's in your name.

Speaker 11:
[47:00] Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[47:01] All right. That makes sense.

Speaker 3:
[47:02] So who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

Speaker 11:
[47:08] We have $2,500 coming in from a rental. That person bought the business, and he has the option to buy by the end of the year, for $350,000 if he exercises it right. And then he also gets Social Security for $1,100 a month. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[47:24] So at this point, you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband?

Speaker 11:
[47:29] No, I'm not. But I have no control over that.

Speaker 3:
[47:33] What's the plan moving forward? Does he know that he has a problem?

Speaker 1:
[47:36] You apparently have a lot of control. You got everything in your name.

Speaker 11:
[47:39] Right. Everything's in my name. He knows that I'm opening up this franchise, which will be approximately $125,000 to open the franchise on my own. He's just kind of like letting me leave the money in the bank. But I feel like it's not getting the best return. So I'm looking for ways that I can invest it.

Speaker 3:
[48:01] I mean, we could tell you to get with the SmartVestor Pro and invest that money, but I really don't feel like that's the issue of the conversation.

Speaker 1:
[48:09] Yeah, there's so much going on. Here's the problem. It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom.

Speaker 11:
[48:15] Right.

Speaker 1:
[48:16] And that's kind of what we're hearing here. But you feel like you've got his gambling addiction under control. And I question that because I've seen so many. Well, I mean, but and so as long as you keep this stuff in your name, I guess you have the option of divorce at some point if he runs up, you know, let's say he runs up a million dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point. So anyway, that's what you're facing. So yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every seven years. So you basically got a million dollars in seven years. At 64 years old, you'd have $2 million. At seven more years at 71 years old, you'd have $4 million. So you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this franchise, if this franchise doesn't go belly up on you. And so, and it sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So that's a little concerning.

Speaker 3:
[49:26] Is the franchise in the same field of expertise or is it something totally different?

Speaker 11:
[49:33] No, it's something that I'm passionate about, something that is for me, not for him. I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this and I'm expecting for it to be very successful and I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be.

Speaker 1:
[49:53] I got to tell you that that's not true in the small business world. So there is risk that you're not perceiving apparently. So yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it. But I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision if it's a bad decision. And I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with 600 or more thousand dollars going over in a regular low risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison to franchise purchasing. And so let's put some money over there. So if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work, then you know, you've at least got that money working for you. So yeah, you need to sit down and do that. And you need to put a real limit on the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it. Absolutely. And because if you don't with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive, how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing. And if you want to put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it. Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. What I've got a problem with is these absolute statements. And I've been in business my whole life and there is no absolute 100 percent. People are behind me. I feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about. None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money. So don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity. If you want to put 125 in it, do it. And then I'd put the rest of it over with a SmartVestor Pro and some good mutual funds to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and separate these things.

Speaker 3:
[51:43] Yeah, I'm going to call it like I heard it. It almost sounded like this business for you is some sort of retaliatory thing against him to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here. And I would just say draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're going to endure this and to what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that separation so that he can get the help that he needs because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer. It feels like it's breeding resentment from you.

Speaker 1:
[52:11] Oh, for sure. It kind of should.

Speaker 3:
[52:14] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[52:43] Getting married changes something in you. It sure did in me. When you say, I do, all of the sudden, life isn't just about you anymore. It's about we. And one of the most grown up things you can do for that we is to make a will at mamabarelegalforms.com. See, being a grown up isn't just about jobs and rent and splitting up the chores. It's about having a plan. So the person you love is protected. And a will isn't about dying. It's about deciding. It puts your wishes in writing, so no one has to guess, and judges don't have the final say. That's why I recommend Mamabare Legal Forms. With Mamabare, making your will is easy. It's completely online, no lawyers required. You can get it done in about 20 minutes. The price you see at the start is the price you pay with Mamabare. So if you're serious about being an adult, do this today. Go to mamabarelegalforms.com, use the promo code RAMSEY, and save 20% on your will. That's mamabarelegalforms.com, promo code RAMSEY. Nicole is in Atlanta. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

Speaker 8:
[54:03] Hi, I'm good, how are you?

Speaker 1:
[54:05] Good, what's up?

Speaker 8:
[54:07] So me and my husband live in an apartment, and we're trying to decide if we should move to a bigger space because we do have three kids, so two are five-year-old twins, and then a two-year-old baby girl. So last year, we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we had $62,000 worth of student loan debt left, and we were going to use, we've been using mostly like our overage which is about $1,100 that we have among to put towards our debt, and then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it, just in and out. So we're trying to see, we want them to have a space to have a yard, and like just more space is a little bit cramped up with all five of us here. So we were just wondering if we should stay or if we should kind of go, like our budget would be tighter, but we're just trying to see what we should prioritize.

Speaker 3:
[55:01] What are you guys earning between the two of you right now?

Speaker 8:
[55:06] Growth would be 103,000.

Speaker 3:
[55:09] Okay. The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's gonna close the gap on how much margin you have to throw out this debt, which means there's gonna be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long-term that's gonna affect your ability to build wealth. For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go wholeheartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you.

Speaker 1:
[55:44] You're not even talking about home ownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you?

Speaker 8:
[55:48] Yeah, we were actually looking to our rent at $2,200. And so we were wanting to rent, thinking about $25,000 as our max $2,200. But that doesn't include gas and utility. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3:
[56:01] Okay, understood.

Speaker 8:
[56:03] Yeah, so we just don't know if that's going to be leading us with $400,000 instead of $1,000.

Speaker 1:
[56:08] How much debt have you paid off so far?

Speaker 8:
[56:11] $36,000 with the vehicle.

Speaker 1:
[56:13] And how long did that take?

Speaker 8:
[56:16] That took us two years.

Speaker 1:
[56:17] Okay, making $130,000.

Speaker 8:
[56:21] $103,000.

Speaker 1:
[56:23] Yeah, so you guys suck at this so far, Nicole.

Speaker 8:
[56:27] We suck.

Speaker 1:
[56:28] Yeah, $18,000 making $100,000 per year is not enough debt reduction. You guys are still out, you're still going out to eat, you're still going on vacation, you're still spending money, you're still not on a tight budget. And so you made a little progress, but you should have made a lot more progress. If you told me you paid off $36,000 in six months, see, then I can take that number and go, oh, wait a minute, you could clear up the rest of this in a year if you'd suck it up and get it done. But at the rate you're going, it's going to take you 10 years.

Speaker 8:
[56:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[56:58] That ain't cool.

Speaker 8:
[56:59] That's true.

Speaker 1:
[57:00] That ain't cool.

Speaker 8:
[57:00] That's how we feel.

Speaker 1:
[57:01] Yeah, we got to not get stuck in that. And if you feel like you're never going to get out, then you just say, well, to heck with it, I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard. You're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress. And so I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan. If I'm you, I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, look, we did a little bit here and we didn't do a bad thing, but we really weren't, it wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here and we need to really light this thing up instead of putting $1,500 a month on it. We need to take extra jobs. We need to sell stuff. We need to not go out to eat. We need to tight, tight, tight, tight, tighten down this budget, not go the other way. And let's get this thing to $3,000 or $4,000 a month going at this $6,000, $60,000 that's left. And then we can get out in about 14 or 15 months. Then we talk about building an emergency fund. And then we talk about buying a house, not renting one. But what you're talking about is a five or a six year plan and you won't even make it.

Speaker 3:
[58:06] I agree. If you can have these kids, they're young right now, right? They're five years old, three years old. Now is the time that they can be squished and they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I, for one, would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay.

Speaker 1:
[58:24] Listen, if they're squished and their life is miserable for one year, they'll be fine. That's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life.

Speaker 3:
[58:34] You want to know what though? I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in, and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids.

Speaker 1:
[58:42] Yeah, nobody told us we were...

Speaker 3:
[58:43] They were tiny.

Speaker 1:
[58:44] Nobody told us we were squished.

Speaker 3:
[58:46] No.

Speaker 1:
[58:46] We were, but nobody told us we were. It was a thousand square foot, right? Yeah. Hello. And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say, go play in the traffic.

Speaker 3:
[58:55] Yeah, you had to go outside.

Speaker 1:
[58:56] You did have to go.

Speaker 7:
[58:58] You had to play outside all the time.

Speaker 1:
[59:00] Did you tell your kids to go play in the traffic? You don't tell your kids that.

Speaker 3:
[59:02] I don't tell them to play in traffic. I just tell them to...

Speaker 1:
[59:05] My mother would say that all the time. Go play in the traffic. Get out of my... Get out of my feet. Yes. That's what calls me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Hey, Dustin, what's up?

Speaker 2:
[59:16] Hi.

Speaker 5:
[59:18] So, I'll get right into it.

Speaker 2:
[59:19] My dad incurred about $30,000 in debt.

Speaker 4:
[59:23] He has no retirement.

Speaker 2:
[59:24] His only income is Social Security. He now has dementia and my brother and I are left trying to manage this for him. He's currently being sued on one credit card for $8,000 and he owes $13,000 on another credit card.

Speaker 9:
[59:39] And I guess my question is, should we try and settle this with them?

Speaker 1:
[59:42] Does he own anything?

Speaker 9:
[59:45] No. No assets.

Speaker 1:
[59:46] Well, how would he settle it?

Speaker 2:
[59:49] Essentially, my brother and I would have to help him out.

Speaker 1:
[59:52] Why? Why would you do that? Just tell the credit card company to bite me.

Speaker 3:
[59:56] He has no money. He has nothing to give.

Speaker 1:
[59:58] They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right?

Speaker 2:
[60:03] Yeah, he has nothing. It's the only social security.

Speaker 5:
[60:05] I don't believe they can touch that.

Speaker 1:
[60:06] They can't touch that. Does he own a home?

Speaker 5:
[60:09] No.

Speaker 1:
[60:09] No? He doesn't have any money in his bank account except the social security.

Speaker 2:
[60:14] Yeah, it would just be for me and my brother to have one less thing to have to deal with.

Speaker 1:
[60:18] I wouldn't deal with it at all. I got one less thing. I'm just going to show him the smallest finger on my left hand and say that's all you get, nothing.

Speaker 3:
[60:25] Are they calling you?

Speaker 2:
[60:28] No. No.

Speaker 1:
[60:30] I just tell them to jump in a creek. You shouldn't have loaned money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

Speaker 2:
[60:38] Okay. And should I offer to have them sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorneys fees or just not require?

Speaker 1:
[60:46] Who cares? They're not going to get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say, if you want to talk to them, call them up and just say this, say, I want you to make a note in the file, he has advanced dementia and zero assets. We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off because you're not getting a dime. Okay. And just real simple, I mean, let's pretend he had passed away. Okay. I just sent him a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let him know and let him know that there's no estate. And then after that, I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons.

Speaker 3:
[61:22] Yeah. None of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

Speaker 9:
[61:28] No. Yeah. I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt and I'm not responsible for that.

Speaker 1:
[61:33] It's just sad and it's one of this part. It's a sad sub chapter, sub paragraph in this overall sad story that you're dealing with. But what I would do is just say I'm not going to worry about it at all. And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could. But I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations. And I'm not going to give them a dime. There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money.

Speaker 4:
[62:01] Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1:
[62:03] And it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that. And, you know, I've run into situations like that in my life, Dustin. How old are you?

Speaker 4:
[62:11] I'm 44.

Speaker 1:
[62:12] Yeah. I've run into situations like that. And what I do is I say, okay, I got to help my dad out in your case. This is what you're saying. I got to help my dad out. And this is a sad situation. And so what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this. Right. I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way. It's like, you know, I was working for a guy one time. He goes, I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it will be the one I own in St. Thomas.

Speaker 3:
[62:43] Come on now.

Speaker 1:
[62:44] So I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's because they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them. And so you look at this and you go, he's got no assets, he's got dementia, and the only positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for him. Other than that, this guy's a pauper, we would use old language, but it's very sad. And so take it as a lesson to go, I'm there, you know, and then you teach your kids, your grandpa ended up that way, your grandpa was not a bad person, but this is how he ended up. And this is how we're not at, from this point forward, the family tree changes. We're shifting it. It's over. So take a lesson from it, at least. At least get that out of it. But no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. Not a dime.

Speaker 12:
[63:44] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our relationships and on our mental and emotional health. Money fights are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have struggled over the years with money conflicts over and over again. Therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about giving you financial advice, but it can give you strategies to better communicate about money, help you build healthier ways of coping, and help you build a plan to move forward with your mental and emotional health and your money. I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with the licensed therapist based on your goals. BetterHelp therapists are fully licensed in the United States, and they work according to a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. If the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com/ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com/ramsey.

Speaker 1:
[64:58] Well, we love debt-free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt-free stage. We super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. TJ is with us here with his wife, Alice, and he's a project manager on the Every Dollar Team. Been with us about a year, and they get to come in here and do their debt-free scream. Welcome, guys.

Speaker 7:
[65:19] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[65:21] Good to have you. How nerve-racking is this?

Speaker 7:
[65:24] It's, we're here. And it's finally real.

Speaker 1:
[65:30] Love it. How much have you paid off?

Speaker 7:
[65:31] $165,000.

Speaker 1:
[65:34] Love it. How long did that take?

Speaker 7:
[65:37] Fifteen months.

Speaker 1:
[65:38] Awesome. Okay. And you've been here about a year, so you started on it before. How long y'all been married?

Speaker 13:
[65:43] One year and eight months.

Speaker 1:
[65:45] Oh, wow. So moving here, getting married, starting the debt-free journey, all in the last two years?

Speaker 13:
[65:50] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[65:51] Wow. Where'd you move from?

Speaker 7:
[65:53] Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicagoland.

Speaker 1:
[65:55] Okay. All right. So you got married and did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job?

Speaker 7:
[65:59] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[66:00] Okay. The project manager at EveryDollar. Well, that's awesome. So you people out there that are using EveryDollar to get out of debt, it's all TJ's fault. All the things that are awesome about it, it's all TJ's fault. He's one of the many talented folks we got on that team really, really working on this. So what kind of debt was the 165,000?

Speaker 7:
[66:21] Yeah, it was 107 in student loans and then 58 in new cars. This was before learning about Ramsey.

Speaker 1:
[66:29] Got you. Okay. Very cool. How's it feel to be free?

Speaker 7:
[66:33] Liberating. Liberating, peaceful. It was the best sleep we've ever got. Well, I've gotten the past two years. It was October 30th when we made our final payment. Filled in the rest of that. I saw the thermometer that we had up there. Filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it.

Speaker 1:
[66:53] So, how did the order of events go about learning about doing the Ramsey stuff, coming to work here, getting married, all that? How's that all that line up?

Speaker 13:
[67:02] So we got the total money makeover as a wedding gift. It was not on our registry. We were not familiar.

Speaker 1:
[67:10] It seldom is.

Speaker 13:
[67:12] So TJ read the book about three times and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. He was saying that it's Bible based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, Dave's really funny, which I was like, hmm, let me see for myself. And I loved it. We had a conversation where we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments. And we didn't feel like we were able to really live, even though we had two pretty good incomes.

Speaker 1:
[67:46] Very cool. What do you do?

Speaker 13:
[67:47] I'm a nurse.

Speaker 1:
[67:48] Awesome. Very cool.

Speaker 13:
[67:49] Good.

Speaker 1:
[67:50] Yeah, that is two good incomes. Excellent. Well done, y'all. Yeah. Okay. So you get married, you get the book and you get on the same page. And then how does he end up with this job? That's weird.

Speaker 7:
[68:00] Well, it all came down to we were Dave-ish. Around Thanksgiving, I got to talk to my uncle Matt and Gina, who were the ones that gifted us Total Money Makeover. And we're like, we're doing it, we're doing it. And they're like, are you really doing it? And we were like, well, we have 20,000 savings while we're trying to pay down the debts. We, you know, we paid for our wedding and anything that was a gift, we just threw at debt. I'm like, that felt good. Let's keep going. And they were like, hey, check out their website for additional resources. And I was like, okay, cool. So I started looking around, I saw there was a careers page. I'm like, all right, let's see what this is all about. Saw some jobs. I was like, I could probably do that. I applied, previous role, I applied for hundreds of jobs. And then I eventually got my one. I was like, all right, Lord, if you open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them. And however, was it 12 steps to get here?

Speaker 1:
[68:51] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[68:51] The hiring process.

Speaker 1:
[68:52] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[68:53] But, you know, it really felt like God called me here. Able to serve, be able to be here and help spread hope to other people.

Speaker 3:
[69:00] That's really awesome. So what are you going to do to celebrate?

Speaker 7:
[69:03] We did.

Speaker 13:
[69:04] We did. We bought a king size bed.

Speaker 1:
[69:06] Yay!

Speaker 13:
[69:07] With multiple bases, best sleep of my life.

Speaker 3:
[69:10] Oh, I love that. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1:
[69:12] I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of bed.

Speaker 3:
[69:14] I did too, but they got a new mattress.

Speaker 1:
[69:16] It's because he got a new mattress is what it was. That's great.

Speaker 3:
[69:19] That's excellent.

Speaker 1:
[69:20] Very cool. All right. So what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, how did you do that? How do you pay off $165,000 newly married in 15 months? That's over $10,000 a month.

Speaker 7:
[69:33] Yeah. God's blessings for sure. Everything kind of had to come right together. We wrote down October of 2025. When we were writing that, I'm like, everything is going to have to come up right in order for this to happen. God's blessings allowed us to be there. A new opportunity. She was travel nursing.

Speaker 1:
[69:51] Good money.

Speaker 7:
[69:52] Which is where a lot of all of that came from.

Speaker 1:
[69:55] Yeah, that's good money.

Speaker 7:
[69:57] It took a lot of sacrifice. I had to move down here and I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down.

Speaker 3:
[70:03] That is a big sacrifice.

Speaker 7:
[70:04] So she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away. So a lot of long commute. And I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make. Both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there. And just want to be an inspiration to others.

Speaker 1:
[70:19] So working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like, everybody's doing this. It's like the positive peer pressure, but it's also pressure. I mean, was it helpful to have your team all up in your business, or your buddies cheering you on? Or was that a bad, I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice. But I mean, is it helpful to be in this kind of environment when you're doing it or not? I think it could work against you. Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[70:47] At least I can tell my side. It's been extremely, it's a support system. If we didn't believe in it, then yes, I think it'd be a whole lot of different pressure. They were like, oh, I don't really want to do it. But we believed in it. We knew that it was going to be good for us. Changing our family tree, going through Financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget.

Speaker 13:
[71:10] It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed bag as far as their thoughts on our journey. So we committed to it. It was amazing for TJ to be working in an environment where we got that support. So it ultimately was such a blessing.

Speaker 1:
[71:27] Yeah. Cool.

Speaker 7:
[71:29] Very cool.

Speaker 3:
[71:29] Any setbacks on the way?

Speaker 7:
[71:31] It's right after we get out of it. I had some health stuff that came up. So we got debt free and then we were able to cash flow 10K in medical expenses. And now we're tacking on taxes. But we were able to cash flow it all. Car repairs and all that. We were able to cash flow it as we went.

Speaker 1:
[71:51] So it's about time to celebrate with some of it.

Speaker 8:
[71:54] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[71:55] That's enough already. So you're working on every dollar, your project manager on every dollar. The journey and now the freedom has to affect how you look at all those projects.

Speaker 7:
[72:09] Yeah, just.

Speaker 1:
[72:12] I mean, you're not agnostic anymore. You're in it.

Speaker 7:
[72:14] You're able to just focus. It's being able to say, okay, I'm a product of this. I believed in it. It makes it that much more motivating so to come in every single day, come into work knowing that I made a difference, not only for myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here. It's truly inspiring. It's just so nice to be a part of it, something that you believe in. And you're able to say, I'm affecting this. I'm changing this. I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Ramsey plan. And that's all the motivation you need.

Speaker 1:
[72:47] Amen. Amen. I'm proud of y'all. Yeah, excellent job. Well done. And the teams out here gathered and none of them are working. They're all here to cheer you on. And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very, very cool. Congratulations, you two. Thank you. Very well done. All right. We don't ask my team members on. We don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around. And that's not fair. But they did pay off one hundred and sixty five thousand dollars in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

Speaker 13:
[73:20] Three, two, one.

Speaker 14:
[73:22] We're debt free! It's so good.

Speaker 1:
[73:31] This is how you do it, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3:
[73:33] Love it.

Speaker 1:
[73:34] Man. You know, I can't imagine coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad.

Speaker 3:
[73:46] I mean, lucky for them, it's great, because now you're submerged by everything you need to get off on the right foot financially.

Speaker 1:
[73:52] Yeah. I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. Well, you're on stage this morning, staff meeting doing walk the talk.

Speaker 3:
[73:59] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[73:59] We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people who work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know?

Speaker 10:
[74:05] Hello, hypocrites.

Speaker 3:
[74:06] 100 percent.

Speaker 1:
[74:07] The non-hypocrite system, walk the talk, right?

Speaker 3:
[74:09] On your honor. That's right.

Speaker 1:
[74:11] Yeah. These guys, they did it. I'm so proud. I'm $165,000 made of them.

Speaker 3:
[74:17] They were smoking it. 15 months?

Speaker 1:
[74:19] Man, let's get it done. Get her done. Logan's in Indiana. Hey Logan, what's up? Wait a minute, let me try again. Hey Logan, what's up?

Speaker 4:
[75:04] Hey sir, how are we doing? Thanks for taking my call.

Speaker 1:
[75:06] Sure, how can I help?

Speaker 2:
[75:09] Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into debt to start a cattle operation.

Speaker 1:
[75:18] Okay. How long have you been listening to this show, Logan?

Speaker 2:
[75:24] About six months or so.

Speaker 1:
[75:26] Okay. And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go into debt and how to get out of debt, right?

Speaker 2:
[75:36] Yeah, it is. I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So I wanted to see if that would work in this case.

Speaker 1:
[75:50] No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the former owner gets the profit until not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different.

Speaker 2:
[76:00] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[76:01] So I don't borrow money, Logan. And I've done that for 40 years. And I run a business and I've grown the business with the profits in the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this, business has risk. When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk a hundredfold. A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so what's your household income, sir?

Speaker 2:
[76:34] About $120,000 to $130,000.

Speaker 1:
[76:36] Great.

Speaker 2:
[76:37] Depending on overtime.

Speaker 1:
[76:38] Good for you. So if you took out a $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

Speaker 2:
[76:45] Running the numbers that we ran, given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out, within about two years to three at the most by your third, your third round of CADs, everything should be completely paid off. And it would be profit after that minus operational costs. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[77:03] So what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller? And taking four years and making the thing cash flow its way to the exact same position. Buy a third of what you're talking about buying with cash.

Speaker 2:
[77:19] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[77:20] And make that third by the next third and by the next third. You don't need any money out of this cattle operation. You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed?

Speaker 2:
[77:33] Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan.

Speaker 1:
[77:35] Because you have a good income at home already. And so I think it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash, your own cash. And that's what we've done here. Although we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place, as you know. I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary. So, there's times the market has tanked. And it's an agricultural product. And so, it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses. So, you've got to be very, very careful. But if I were in your shoes, I would get, I would scratch the itch. But I would save up $50,000, $75,000 in cash by living on nothing. And I'd dump every bit of that in there. And then I'd take every dime of profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there one year later than you would have been there if you borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way, nothing ever goes perfect.

Speaker 2:
[78:39] That is, that's true.

Speaker 1:
[78:40] Yeah. I mean, you get, the cows get sick. There's all kinds of problems. There's, you know, the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and, you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how this works, but there's always something, right?

Speaker 3:
[78:54] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[78:55] So, yeah, I would rather you do that and be tired and stretched on your cash, and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race. I just crossed metaphors.

Speaker 3:
[79:16] You did. That's all right.

Speaker 2:
[79:19] No, that makes sense. A follow up to that would be if you were to cash flow this, what's your opinion on leasing pasture and stuff? Do you look at that as debt or is that looked at a little bit different?

Speaker 1:
[79:31] No, that's just overhead. That's just like leasing a building to run your business in, instead of buying the building. There's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure.

Speaker 2:
[79:42] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[79:42] Because now we've got two businesses. If you buy the pasture, you got two businesses. You got the real estate business and the farming business.

Speaker 2:
[79:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[79:51] I mean, it's like me. I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet, like $600 million property, right? So I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in the real estate business and I've got a business that's inside the real estate. But I've got two things going on here, very substantial things. Ramsey and a big old piece of real estate, big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period, no matter how you cut it. And you can mix those two together and act like, well, they're all one thing. No, they're really not. I've got a big old office building, I could have leased it. There are six of them right down the road down here. I could have leased another one and not put half a billion dollars into this thing, right? So that's the thing. So just no need to get in the real estate business. I just lease it. If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sakes, don't buy the building.

Speaker 3:
[80:39] Oh gosh, please no.

Speaker 1:
[80:42] Just rent the building. Get started. You're going to start a daycare. Rent the building. And just don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then. So, wow. Cool. I think we won that one.

Speaker 3:
[81:00] Yeah, I think he's going to take your advice.

Speaker 1:
[81:02] I think he's going to do it.

Speaker 3:
[81:03] I believe in him.

Speaker 1:
[81:04] I like it. I like Logan. All right, that's kind of nice. I like getting one occasionally. Leona's in Cincinnati. Hi, Leona. How are you?

Speaker 11:
[81:13] Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 1:
[81:15] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Speaker 11:
[81:19] So, I have a quick question. So, my husband and I, we have a one-year-old and we recently moved, well, not recently, last year. We had switched from our apartment because of noisy neighbors and went to a townhome. The townhome, when we moved in there, was not great and we sent several e-mails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having and mold and spiders everywhere and centipedes and all these things happening in there. We told them that we are not happy with the townhome and they said they'll fix things. Months went by, they weren't fixing anything. So, we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job, and I reached out to an attorney through there and they said, well, they failed to provide food for living conditions. I have pictures of everything, and you don't owe anything, so you can break your lease and you'll be fine.

Speaker 3:
[82:13] Oh boy, that was not good advice.

Speaker 1:
[82:16] Oh, yeah, you got what you paid for with that lawyer.

Speaker 3:
[82:21] Did you send them anything in writing? Did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

Speaker 11:
[82:30] No, so we definitely sent pictures. You mean to the leasing office or to the legal team?

Speaker 3:
[82:36] Both. Did you let them know that you were seeking legal counsel on behalf? Did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on?

Speaker 11:
[82:46] Yeah, so I called the leasing office. My husband went up there because they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there. He talked to them. They said, okay, we'll take care of things. A couple of months went by, nothing was happening. The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher.

Speaker 1:
[83:02] Okay, so stop. Let's just stop. You just moved out when you got mad because you called Legal Shield and they said you could.

Speaker 11:
[83:13] Yeah, well, we weren't planning to break our lease because we did that before to move to where we are now, and that was not fun. So we said we're not going to break the lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can. So after we called the head office, the property management company or whoever, we talked to the district manager. They said, okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything. Did that, no response. Called again, left a voice message, not getting any response. So the Legal Shield attorney said, they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they were unable to provide whatever suitable living conditions for us and our child. So we don't owe them anything. So because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything. We asked them multiple times, are you going to defend them?

Speaker 1:
[84:06] This is on Legal Shield. Legal Shield needs to defend you for free. Yeah, they told you that. You're going to get sued, I can promise you. I promise you 100% this landlord is coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I got some bugs. Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service, it's not how it works. I mean, so now Legal Shield has bit this off, they need to pick it up and close the deal. And they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for you. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Nicole is in Detroit. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

Speaker 8:
[85:10] Hi, Dave, I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 1:
[85:12] Better than I deserve? Better than we deserve. How can we help?

Speaker 8:
[85:17] So, I was calling. So, basically, my husband has refused to give me financial visibility into his life. He has put his foot down, literally like, no, you cannot see anything that I have going on financially. I can tell you about it. But you can't know anything that's going on. And the reason why it happened is we were in the position to buy a home, and the housing counselor and the lender that we were working with asked about our finances. And I found myself saying, well, I don't know. Hold on. Let me ask my husband. And then after our call was done, I told my husband, I said, you know, I shouldn't have to say, hold on to anyone. Let me ask my husband. I should know what's going on, you know, in that part of your life. It's like we're roommates. It's like you're over here.

Speaker 1:
[86:17] How did that go?

Speaker 8:
[86:20] He said, I'm a grown man. I do not have to show you anything financially in my life. I said, but you're a deacon. You're a deacon, and you're my husband. I said, we're supposed to be one. You saying that makes us not be one.

Speaker 3:
[86:37] And what he said.

Speaker 8:
[86:38] Me showing you my money has nothing to do with us being one. My husband is a deacon.

Speaker 3:
[86:44] Yeah, but this is-

Speaker 1:
[86:45] Wait a minute. Where are we now?

Speaker 8:
[86:49] So I moved out. We were in a rental. When we came together eight years ago, it was his house. So I moved in with him. We've been there for eight years. We were trying to work on getting our own house. And because all this, I mean, it's so bad, Dave. It's so bad.

Speaker 3:
[87:07] But what else is going on? Because this was explosive. So what else is going on? I have a feeling that it wasn't- this has not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

Speaker 8:
[87:18] No. So he has a 21-year-old son, and his son is very disrespectful. He basically- it's basically like he runs the house. And if I try to say anything to him about his son, what his son does, if I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around, he never believes me. So it's just- it's just bubbling over.

Speaker 3:
[87:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[87:45] How can we help you today, hon?

Speaker 8:
[87:48] So I just want to know- so we've separated. He has filed divorce papers, but I haven't signed them yet. I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talk to a boat. Got you. That's not even a word.

Speaker 3:
[88:03] Have you suggested some sort of council? Have you suggested, hey, this is really bad. We need to get in counseling. What did he say?

Speaker 8:
[88:09] Yes. I said that and he said no, because that person is not going to tell me that I have to allow you to see my money.

Speaker 3:
[88:17] See, here's the thing, and I'm just going to go ahead and say this. This is based off of just what you've told me. So take it with a grain of salt. This, based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see, and maybe it does have to do with his stature or how people view him. He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money. Maybe that's a blessing. He's the one that's filed for divorce. Maybe this is you dodging a bullet. I don't know. I don't know, but this sounds like somebody who doesn't, it sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told nor learn anything about a better way to exist in a relationship. That's what you've told me.

Speaker 1:
[88:57] Yeah. The weird thing is that all of his finances are now going to get exposed.

Speaker 3:
[89:05] In the divorce. Right.

Speaker 1:
[89:07] Because the judge is not going to go along with his plan.

Speaker 3:
[89:11] It's very ironic.

Speaker 1:
[89:12] 100 percent of his finances have to be exposed or he's going to have to lie to the court, which will get him put in jail. So, you don't lie to the court, not even divorce court. So, you know, he has to come, he has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has to all come before the judge and he's going to find out that half of it's yours. That's going to be very weird for him.

Speaker 8:
[89:38] Well, we've only been married two years.

Speaker 1:
[89:40] Yeah, that doesn't matter.

Speaker 3:
[89:42] Oh, I thought it was eight. So you've been in the house for six years.

Speaker 8:
[89:45] We've been together eight years, married too.

Speaker 3:
[89:47] Okay. What are you concerned about? Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on? That you don't know about?

Speaker 8:
[89:55] Actually, before we separated, I had to find out the hard way that he had a garnishment on my account. I had to ask him several times to get it taken care of. He got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it. I was just like, for you to be so angry with me and telling me, no, you won't allow me to see you financially, but you got a garnishment on my account, how is that fair?

Speaker 3:
[90:30] There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about. There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about. Granted, I don't know what parts you've contributed to whatever messes here. I'm sure there's two sides to everything. But my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some shame, or it might be just the way he views those gender roles that you guys never aligned on. That money is the man's thing and it's not, who knows, but it's never going to come out because he won't go to counseling with you.

Speaker 1:
[91:01] It's going to come out in the divorce. You're going to find out everything about his money in the divorce, which is the irony of him filing for divorce because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money. So it's kind of ironic and he's just dumb enough he doesn't know that. So this is going to be a real surprise to him. It's going to be this awesome wake up call for him because the judge doesn't really care about his theories. He's just going to tell him what to do and if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court and it's really nasty. You don't want to screw around with the judge. So this is where he's going. The question you asked, I have a sad, horrible answer for. What can I say to him to make him want to do this? The answer is nothing. There's not anything you can say to him. I wish there was one phrase, one way of doing it, but this is a very entrenched position that he has taken to the point. He's willing to give up his marriage over this, and so there's not a single phrase. If he was coming to the table and saying, hey, I want to work on this, let's go to counseling. I could give you some things to say to do all that, but in this situation, you're just going to be throwing water against the wall. There's nothing happening here. I'm sorry that you chose poorly in a husband. This guy's bad news.

Speaker 3:
[92:27] It's too bad, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[92:29] No one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy, not a person out there. Regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else was going on in the house, all that kind of thing. But this is a guy that is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband.

Speaker 3:
[92:48] That's sad.

Speaker 1:
[92:50] There's not a single phrase that's going to make him not be a jerk. I don't have the not be a jerk phrase. I don't have one of those. And I'm sorry. I wish it was. I wish it was something we could just do. But unless he just decides that he wants to be together, unified, work together, in full visibility, and in order to save his marriage, and start with a marriage counselor, then you're not going to make it, Keto. I'm sorry. I wish you were.

Speaker 12:
[93:42] Hey, good folks, Dr. John Delony here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramsysolutions.com/careers. That's ramsysolutions.com/careers.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[95:26] All right. Today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia. He says, I'm 66 years old and have been retired for five years. I have 500,000 in retirement funds, but I have two debts, 40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage. I have Social Security and pension income of 6,000 per month. Should I pay off my debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401K? I wish I had a little bit more information, but off the top, I would say yes, because to have your mortgage paid for, that's money that you're not going to have to take a draw on. My guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single debt in the world.

Speaker 1:
[96:16] Now make sure you cut up a stupid credit card. You get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again.

Speaker 3:
[96:22] Yeah, that's really what you need to do. I don't know if that's old debt.

Speaker 1:
[96:24] Credit card debt is not the problem, it's the symptom of you overspending.

Speaker 3:
[96:28] Yeah, and if it's old debt and you're like, I'm not on that lifestyle anymore, I just still have it laying around, absolutely paid off. But if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

Speaker 1:
[96:38] Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey, Mike, how are you? Good.

Speaker 4:
[96:41] How are you guys doing?

Speaker 1:
[96:42] Better than we deserve. What's up?

Speaker 2:
[96:45] My wife and her siblings inherited some money from their dad when he passed away several years back. And one of the siblings is an executor, and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible and they're just going to hold their money back from them. I say that's not their call.

Speaker 1:
[97:08] You're exactly right.

Speaker 9:
[97:10] Okay. Well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes.

Speaker 1:
[97:13] The executor, the literal, the reason they're called an executor is they're to execute. They're to execute what the will said. It didn't say you're a trust officer and you get to decide what's best. It said you execute what the will says. It's your only option. Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it, you have one option when you're the executor, and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt, and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

Speaker 3:
[97:48] What's your wife think?

Speaker 9:
[97:50] She agrees with me.

Speaker 1:
[97:53] You guys got your part, right?

Speaker 9:
[97:55] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[97:56] Okay. I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued.

Speaker 2:
[98:02] Well, I kind of did that.

Speaker 1:
[98:04] Well, then you've done your job. Leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore.

Speaker 3:
[98:07] How much is it?

Speaker 2:
[98:09] You know, I think it's like eight or ten thousand dollars each.

Speaker 1:
[98:12] Oh, it's not enough to mess with. But here's the thing. The person finds out that they were not giving the money they're supposed to be given. The person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally.

Speaker 9:
[98:22] Well, that's what I've kind of figured.

Speaker 1:
[98:25] Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 9:
[98:26] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[98:27] But there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, it's just these are people doing whatever they want to do. And that's what people do all the time. That's the problem. When you pick the executor of your will, folks, you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will. Yeah. What is it you will to happen?

Speaker 3:
[98:44] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[98:44] That's what that means.

Speaker 3:
[98:45] They need to be Switzerland.

Speaker 1:
[98:47] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[98:47] Did you say deep kimchi?

Speaker 1:
[98:49] I just did.

Speaker 3:
[98:50] Okay. Just check in.

Speaker 1:
[98:52] Just make sure things come up in the Rolodex. Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora. What's up?

Speaker 11:
[98:59] Hi, Dave and Jade.

Speaker 4:
[99:00] Excited to talk to you today.

Speaker 11:
[99:02] I have an exciting question for you. I want to know should we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house?

Speaker 3:
[99:09] My favorite type of question. Tell us more.

Speaker 11:
[99:12] Okay. We are in Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. We've been on the Ramsey Plan for a solid seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high-yield savings account. But then when we are doing our annual budget meeting, we're also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000. Our mortgage is approximately $83,000 left. So if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done.

Speaker 1:
[99:39] And still have an emergency fund?

Speaker 11:
[99:41] Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund. That's a little small. Beyond those two amounts.

Speaker 1:
[99:46] That's a bit small.

Speaker 3:
[99:47] Yeah, is that what it would be if the house were gone?

Speaker 11:
[99:51] Yeah, well, we use the brokerage account as a backup emergency fund.

Speaker 1:
[99:56] You don't have that anymore in this scenario.

Speaker 11:
[99:59] We have $10,000 in our bank account.

Speaker 1:
[100:01] I know, but if you use the brokerage account and you use the $60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

Speaker 11:
[100:09] Well, we want to spend approximately $50,000 on a car.

Speaker 1:
[100:14] No, are you listening?

Speaker 3:
[100:16] He's saying if you pay the house off with that money.

Speaker 1:
[100:17] I say if you pay the house off, you got nothing but $10,000 left. Right?

Speaker 11:
[100:24] Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account that is just a side emergency fund.

Speaker 1:
[100:29] Oh, so you have $20,000.

Speaker 11:
[100:30] So we would have, yeah, we would have $20,000 if the house is paid off.

Speaker 1:
[100:33] Okay, that's what I didn't understand. Is your net worth over a million dollars?

Speaker 11:
[100:37] It is, sir.

Speaker 1:
[100:38] And this is a brand new car?

Speaker 11:
[100:41] New to us.

Speaker 1:
[100:42] Oh, it's not a brand new car?

Speaker 11:
[100:44] It might be a year old.

Speaker 1:
[100:45] Okay, that's not a brand new car. It either is or it isn't. All right. Now, so, wow.

Speaker 3:
[100:52] I mean, how long would it take you? You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want?

Speaker 11:
[101:04] We think by probably August.

Speaker 1:
[101:06] Oh, crap.

Speaker 3:
[101:07] Man, I got to be honest. There's not a wrong answer. I probably pay the house off.

Speaker 1:
[101:11] Yeah, there's a wrong answer. Don't buy the car. Pay the house off and then go buy the car.

Speaker 3:
[101:16] You would?

Speaker 1:
[101:16] I would never buy that car.

Speaker 3:
[101:18] I mean, I wouldn't buy the car. I would pay the house off, but I'm just saying, do you think she'd be dead wrong?

Speaker 1:
[101:24] Yeah, because in eight months, you can go get the car anyway.

Speaker 3:
[101:26] That's what I said.

Speaker 1:
[101:27] So get the house paid off. What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today. I don't mind getting a stupid car. But they go down in value. I would do the same thing.

Speaker 3:
[101:41] But do you think that lightning would strike her down had she done the other way?

Speaker 1:
[101:44] Lightning doesn't strike you down on anything on this show, hardly. But no, I'm definitely paying the house off 100% today. I'd pay it off today. And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want.

Speaker 3:
[101:56] And you might even get a nicer car.

Speaker 1:
[101:58] Parking it in the driveway of a paid-for house. Hello, no question that that's the order things ought to go down. Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So here's the thing. And I'm a car guy. I've owned a bunch of different vehicles here and there. And they all go down in value. And so you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy even if you've got a high net worth.

Speaker 3:
[102:30] But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage.

Speaker 1:
[102:36] It's simple.

Speaker 3:
[102:36] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[102:37] I mean, if she owed $500,000 on the mortgage, then we could have a different discussion.

Speaker 3:
[102:40] Or even $100,000. Well, let's see. My tipping point probably would have been like $250,000.

Speaker 1:
[102:46] Yeah. I mean, the point is that this is very doable very quickly. And so it doesn't matter. So do it the right way. And let your actions reflect that you've got an understanding of how these assets work.

Speaker 3:
[103:02] Right.

Speaker 1:
[103:03] Because five years from today, that $50,000 car is worth $15,000.

Speaker 3:
[103:09] Yes. And that's going to be painful. Hopefully you keep it for a very long time.

Speaker 1:
[103:12] Five years from today, that house will have doubled twice.

Speaker 3:
[103:15] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[103:16] You know, so I mean, there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one today. Or literally.

Speaker 3:
[103:22] You bought a car today?

Speaker 1:
[103:23] I bought a car today, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[103:24] What did you get?

Speaker 1:
[103:25] I got the new Bronco Raptor.

Speaker 3:
[103:26] Look at you.

Speaker 1:
[103:27] So I just wanted one. But I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point. That's not the point. The point is, they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your overall life. Dave Ramsey here, most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, on the Debt Free Stage, Nathan and Megan are with us. Hey guys, how are ya?

Speaker 6:
[105:21] Doing great. Doing well, great to be here.

Speaker 1:
[105:23] Good to have you. Where do y'all live?

Speaker 6:
[105:25] We live in Woodstock, Georgia.

Speaker 1:
[105:26] Oh yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off?

Speaker 6:
[105:32] We paid off $155,000 in just under five years.

Speaker 1:
[105:37] Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

Speaker 6:
[105:41] Starting income was $100,000 and ending income was $145,000.

Speaker 1:
[105:46] Very cool. What do y'all do for a living?

Speaker 15:
[105:48] So I work in technology and manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry.

Speaker 1:
[105:51] Oh yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[105:53] And I worked part-time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time.

Speaker 1:
[105:58] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[105:58] Good. What kind of debt was it?

Speaker 6:
[106:00] It was our mortgage.

Speaker 14:
[106:01] I was hoping so.

Speaker 1:
[106:03] Looking at weird people.

Speaker 6:
[106:04] I know.

Speaker 15:
[106:05] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[106:05] Very cool. How much is this house worth?

Speaker 15:
[106:08] About $450,000 now.

Speaker 1:
[106:09] Good for you guys.

Speaker 3:
[106:10] That's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[106:11] And you've been putting money in your retirement all along. So how much is in that?

Speaker 15:
[106:15] About $300,000.

Speaker 1:
[106:16] All right. Very good. Almost millionaires now.

Speaker 15:
[106:19] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[106:20] Look at you guys. Wow. And how old are you two?

Speaker 6:
[106:24] I'm 28.

Speaker 15:
[106:25] And I'm 29.

Speaker 1:
[106:26] So you got to start at this in your early 20s.

Speaker 6:
[106:29] Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

Speaker 1:
[106:33] And you did it.

Speaker 6:
[106:35] Paid it off on Christmas Day.

Speaker 3:
[106:39] That's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[106:41] Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this at 22 years old?

Speaker 6:
[106:45] Well, honestly, he listened to you since he was 12 years old.

Speaker 15:
[106:49] So I grew up and we didn't have TV. So as a teenager, I couldn't go to bed early. So I'd turn on my clock radio to Dave Ramsey. And I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying. But I started picking it up. And then I mean, it really just comes from my parents instilling, if you're going to accomplish anything, you got to work for it. So then following your steps along the way, we did Financial Peace University right after we were married. And just, I mean, worked as a team together.

Speaker 1:
[107:14] Wow, very cool. So your mom and dad were doing this stuff. And then you're hearing this stuff on talk radio back in the day.

Speaker 15:
[107:20] Yes. Yeah. And it was really just instilling, if you want anything in life, you have to work for it. So that was what my parents gave me. And then you gave me the tools to, us the tools to work together and accomplish this.

Speaker 6:
[107:31] We also bought a fixer upper that needed a lot of equity, or a lot of sweat equity.

Speaker 3:
[107:36] Oh my gosh, I see the picture.

Speaker 6:
[107:38] So that's what it used to look like. And we worked really hard on it. And it's in Woodstock, which is where we wanted to grow up, wanted the kids to grow up. And it didn't even look like the same. So that's where we live now.

Speaker 15:
[107:51] Yeah, that was the dream. Just putting our hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted.

Speaker 1:
[107:57] Looks like it started with a chainsaw.

Speaker 15:
[107:59] Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 6:
[108:00] It did, and lots of poison ivy.

Speaker 3:
[108:02] So the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast. Like you already...

Speaker 15:
[108:06] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[108:06] That was the whole idea.

Speaker 6:
[108:07] Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it.

Speaker 1:
[108:11] So, Megan, when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd.

Speaker 6:
[108:20] I know. I learned this a lot from him and then he got me on to YouTube. He is a little bit of a nerd.

Speaker 1:
[108:28] So, it sounds like he was an attractive nerd.

Speaker 6:
[108:31] He was. Tall, dark and handsome. I was very-

Speaker 3:
[108:36] It didn't take much convincing.

Speaker 6:
[108:37] Yes. Once I learned it too, once we did Financial Peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together. I think that's one of the keys to just doing it together.

Speaker 1:
[108:50] Well, you guys throw those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house. You could buy that house. It looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. It looks like a dead-gum jungle.

Speaker 3:
[109:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[109:03] I mean, that's the- Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[109:05] You said it's worth 400 now?

Speaker 15:
[109:06] 450 now.

Speaker 6:
[109:07] Yeah, our neighborhood.

Speaker 1:
[109:08] Woodstock's sweet.

Speaker 15:
[109:09] It's a great area.

Speaker 1:
[109:10] That's awesome.

Speaker 15:
[109:11] Dave always says it's important to dream together. It actually took us two years to convince this lady was vacant to sell us the home. We would drive by and she would get annoyed at me and go, that's our home, see our home? We didn't even have another contract yet, but we'd dream and we'd stare at it. Fall on the principles of going, hey, we wanted a 15-year mortgage, not more than 20 percent of our home pay.

Speaker 1:
[109:32] How did you get her to sell it?

Speaker 15:
[109:35] Well, honestly, I was her friend for two years. She didn't know anyone else and I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most of the time, but I just told her whenever she wants to sell, she'll think of us first and one day after two years, she said, all right, I'm ready to sell.

Speaker 6:
[109:49] Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence.

Speaker 1:
[109:53] She wasn't, it was vacant.

Speaker 6:
[109:55] Yeah, it was vacant.

Speaker 1:
[109:55] It looked like it.

Speaker 6:
[109:56] She lived in a different place and we drove there and got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until she's decided to say.

Speaker 1:
[110:05] Until she relented.

Speaker 6:
[110:06] We're ready. Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[110:08] I love this guy. This is incredible.

Speaker 3:
[110:12] And of course, you cash flowed all the upgrades, you did the inside and the outside.

Speaker 15:
[110:16] We went down to the studs and I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas electrical plumbing, we did the septic system, and we did everything.

Speaker 3:
[110:25] So you pay, I just need America to hear this. You completely-

Speaker 1:
[110:28] They've cash flowed all of that and paid off.

Speaker 11:
[110:31] Yes, in five years.

Speaker 15:
[110:32] Right.

Speaker 3:
[110:33] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[110:33] So you 26 year olds that are whining, I can't buy a house, I can't rent the world. Oh, kiss my butt. These guys right here, hold their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 3:
[110:43] Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need to know.

Speaker 15:
[110:47] Absolutely. Dave, you preach it. I actually saw the bumper sticker over there and I love it. And it was pray like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on you. And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that a list, I'm annoying, I'll get passionate about it, but you're the problem, you're the solution. Work hard. There is, I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been in country for all of history. So work for it. It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, I can't do this, but roll up your sleeves and get to work. Work is underestimated and working together as a team, this has just helped us in our marriage. And now we have a home for our kids and we're just going to continue building the dream.

Speaker 3:
[111:27] You can pull that headset off and slam it on the floor. No, don't do that.

Speaker 15:
[111:31] It looks expensive.

Speaker 6:
[111:32] Yes, I say to just eat at home and practical things, like being content with what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you and also just work inside hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was stay at home mom, but also trying to help provide some income during that time. And Nathan worked really hard at his job just to work his way up, but also worked side hustles. So do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have already.

Speaker 1:
[112:12] Well, I mean, you're not even 30 years old. You have a paid $4.5 million house. You're well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so. The markets are moving and everything is happening. You guys are in really, really good shape. Congratulations. I'm very proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you. Thank you. Your children, your heroes, you have changed your family tree. So your secret is work at it and stick together.

Speaker 4:
[112:35] Yeah.

Speaker 15:
[112:35] Just don't take no for an answer. If someone tells you no, just figure another way to do it.

Speaker 1:
[112:40] Yeah. There's always another way to get it done.

Speaker 4:
[112:43] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[112:43] That's amazing. I have one more question. When you went to buy this house, how did you set your expectations? Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated and said, that's a shack, I'm not going to spend my money on that. How did you know to do that?

Speaker 15:
[113:00] Well, great question. I mean, my whole life, it's been, we're so wealthy as a country, people throw away great things that we can work hard and make beautiful. So going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and we had talked about it. What are the bones? What can't we change? Let's make sure that's good. We can work hard on everything else and change that.

Speaker 6:
[113:20] Change some paint colors, change the flooring. Just see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside. There were no mold issues, no flooring, foundation issues. We were very blessed. God blessed us with this home too. We were put in all the right situations where we were like, this is not just coincidental.

Speaker 14:
[113:44] That's awesome.

Speaker 3:
[113:45] So, so good, guys.

Speaker 1:
[113:46] Well, well done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages.

Speaker 3:
[113:50] Oh boy, are they cute.

Speaker 4:
[113:51] They are cute, cute, cute.

Speaker 3:
[113:53] Oh, there's more of them than I thought.

Speaker 1:
[113:55] They just keep coming.

Speaker 6:
[113:56] Yes, we paid it off when he was 10 days old.

Speaker 3:
[113:59] Oh, what a guy.

Speaker 6:
[114:01] Yes, baby James.

Speaker 1:
[114:02] So what's his name?

Speaker 6:
[114:03] This is James. He's two months now.

Speaker 1:
[114:05] And the girls?

Speaker 6:
[114:06] This is Emmy. She's five. And then Lily is two.

Speaker 1:
[114:09] All right.

Speaker 6:
[114:10] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[114:10] You guys are your parents are heroes. You don't even know it yet. You're too young. Someday you'll know they're the ones that change the family tree. Way to go. All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. One hundred and fifty five thousand paid off in five years, making one hundred and forty almost baby steps millionaires already at thirty years old. Let's hear it.

Speaker 14:
[114:31] Three, two, one, we're debt free.

Speaker 3:
[114:41] I love it. I love it. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[114:44] These kids are cute.

Speaker 3:
[114:45] They are. I love it. That's amazing, Dave. Amazing. Oh, it can't be done.

Speaker 1:
[114:50] No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. We're going to die. We're going to die. No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. There is a lot of noise out there when it comes to money advice, and most of it just leaves people confused. That is why we built Ask Ramsey. It's a free tool on our website where you can ask your money question and get a clear answer based on the same proven Ramsey principles we teach on the show every day. No mixed messages, no bad advice, just clarity you can trust. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Our scripture of the day is 1 Corinthians 15, 58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm, let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. Thomas Sowell said, There are people who go through the motions and people who get the job done. It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the latter and firing the former. Amen. Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey Charlie, how are you?

Speaker 2:
[116:32] Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave?

Speaker 1:
[116:34] Just the same. What's up?

Speaker 2:
[116:37] Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids and this mom, we just got death free, so we pay off the mortgage.

Speaker 1:
[116:46] Good for you.

Speaker 11:
[116:46] Way to go. Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[116:48] Thank you. So the question is, so I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home. My dad, he is in his 70s, he's still working, probably because maybe a series of poor financial decisions. So he cannot retire because he has to continue to financially support other family members, adult family members in the family.

Speaker 1:
[117:16] Why?

Speaker 2:
[117:17] Overseas, and so I'm a bit torn because I don't have any debt, I can help, but I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors. So I'm torn apart and seeking some advice here.

Speaker 1:
[117:34] So what do you make?

Speaker 2:
[117:36] Six hundred thousand.

Speaker 1:
[117:37] Wow, good for you. And what is it you're being torn about? What is it you're being asked to do or that you're doing?

Speaker 2:
[117:46] Um, I want my dad to be able to enjoy retirement life.

Speaker 1:
[117:51] Yeah, but he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas.

Speaker 2:
[117:56] Well, he lives overseas, so he doesn't live here in the States. Yeah, we are immigrants.

Speaker 1:
[118:01] Okay, from which country?

Speaker 2:
[118:03] Korea.

Speaker 1:
[118:04] Okay, all right. And so he lives overseas and he's 70 years old and he doesn't, he has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members.

Speaker 2:
[118:15] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[118:16] Okay, all right.

Speaker 3:
[118:18] What's the situation with the other family members? Are they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today or is the damage completely done?

Speaker 2:
[118:28] Well, I say it's a multi-fold, right? So, you know, some of the family member, he support them just to help them with their lifestyle choices. And some of the family members, they chose not to work because, you know, some of the poor choices they made in the past. So that makes it very difficult for them to find jobs. So basically, my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long as I know.

Speaker 1:
[118:58] What would happen if he couldn't?

Speaker 2:
[119:02] That's the big question. So, we don't know.

Speaker 1:
[119:07] So, do you give your dad money?

Speaker 2:
[119:10] Huh?

Speaker 1:
[119:11] Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work and give them money?

Speaker 2:
[119:15] No, he makes good money. But I'm worried he probably doesn't have enough safe for his own time.

Speaker 3:
[119:22] What's the equivalent? Give us an equivalent in US dollars of what he makes over there.

Speaker 2:
[119:27] Oh, he makes $250,000.

Speaker 1:
[119:30] And he's 70 years old. Okay, so let me stop. What's the problem? The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to get to help him. Is that the problem?

Speaker 2:
[119:46] The problem is, you know, I don't know if that's going to make the problem worse because I'm worried that if I give him the money, the money will just go to other family members.

Speaker 1:
[119:56] No, I wouldn't give him anything.

Speaker 10:
[119:57] I'm just asking, today you're not giving him anything, so there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future, there's getting ready to be something happening, right?

Speaker 1:
[120:08] Correct. I'm anticipating.

Speaker 10:
[120:09] Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. All right. So what you're anticipating is, is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money because he's given all of his away.

Speaker 1:
[120:20] Yes.

Speaker 10:
[120:21] Yeah. At that point, you can decide how much you want to help him. I mean, and you'll have the money to make 600,000. But we're not going to help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else only to the tune that he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing because I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things. But I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural.

Speaker 1:
[120:46] It is very cultural.

Speaker 10:
[120:47] Yeah. Because I mean, in the Latino world, for instance, it's very normal to have more of a family obligation to support parents than we would have in typical gringo culture, right? My hillbilly culture, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that, right? But in an Asian culture where you're talking about or the Latino culture, it's more normalized to be asked to, expected to, and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that this is how things are done. Is that correct?

Speaker 1:
[121:31] Yeah, that's 100 percent correct.

Speaker 10:
[121:33] Yeah, and I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well, even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, why are you doing that? But the answer is, it's a cultural difference to do that. It doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb, it's just an explanation, right? So mathematically, we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight up irresponsibility, although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So yeah, I think I'd talk to him about it if he'll listen, but I bet he doesn't, and just say, dad, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough for you to further on your giving of these other people. So these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own. And they should know that now, because I'm not gonna be held to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's gonna change what's going to occur. What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's gonna happen. Do you, Jade?

Speaker 2:
[122:46] I do, I think he's 70 years old and he's been making this decision for a long time. And it would be a miracle if he stopped today.

Speaker 10:
[122:54] And he's old school within that culture. And he's duty bound and gonna follow through on his duty to take care of them no matter how irresponsible or bad decisions they've been making. He's gonna do it anyway. I think, aren't you Charlie, you agree with that?

Speaker 1:
[123:11] I agree, I agree 100%. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago but it didn't really go anywhere. So I just decided to focus on my own and then try to get that free and protect the family.

Speaker 2:
[123:23] The hard part for you Charlie is gonna be to hold that boundary when the time comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things. But it wasn't your, you didn't make the choice, right? He did and that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times.

Speaker 10:
[123:39] And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree, but not an unreasonable degree. And it's not going to make everybody happy. No one in the end of the story is going to be thrilled with the outcome. But the great news is you make a huge income and you're going to be in a wonderful position financially. And if you want to reach over and help somebody a little bit every month, you can do that and you won't even notice mathematically. And so that's the thing. So not accounting for cultural differences. And you have to account for that. So it's not fair to say that. But you just, folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children.

Speaker 2:
[124:19] Yeah, you do. And you said it exactly right. You know, it might be a reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good.

Speaker 10:
[124:27] That's true.

Speaker 2:
[124:27] And the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 10:
[124:32] Yeah. Yeah. And he comes, he comes from, right? He comes right straight out of that. So, so yeah, you just got to go.

Speaker 2:
[124:38] No, you can't. Don't park your brain at the door.

Speaker 10:
[124:41] We're not going to participate in that. It doesn't make sense. And I've learned a better way.

Speaker 2:
[124:46] Yes.

Speaker 10:
[124:47] And that can happen. You could learn that. I could learn that from his culture. You can learn that from my culture. It doesn't matter. You can learn a better way.

Speaker 2:
[124:52] That's right. But the hard part is he's going to have to do that at the expense of hurt feelings, hurt feelings and family meals and all that stuff is going to be very different. When you draw boundaries like that, people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff.

Speaker 10:
[125:07] So count on it.

Speaker 2:
[125:09] Good luck to you.

Speaker 10:
[125:10] That puts us out of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.