transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Is it weird that I have never wanted a piece of fruit more? Is that bad? Is that good or bad?

Speaker 2:
[00:04] We know a couple of people in this documentary are never getting scurvy, and I feel very good about that.

Speaker 1:
[00:08] But they're just getting everything else.

Speaker 2:
[00:09] I know.

Speaker 1:
[00:10] My goodness.

Speaker 2:
[00:17] Hi, Gillian Pensavalle.

Speaker 1:
[00:19] Hello, Patrick Hinds.

Speaker 2:
[00:20] Fam, join our Facebook group. It's the True Crime Obsessed Podcast Discussion Group. Today, as we record this, the NorCal TCO Facebook Meetup Group turns two.

Speaker 1:
[00:28] Come on.

Speaker 2:
[00:29] Happy birthday, NorCal.

Speaker 1:
[00:31] How cute.

Speaker 2:
[00:32] We also have a Discord.

Speaker 1:
[00:33] We do have a Discord. It's a Discord server.

Speaker 2:
[00:35] Discord server.

Speaker 1:
[00:36] There are channels within that server.

Speaker 2:
[00:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[00:38] Everyone's really nice and fun. It's just like channels about the episodes, like Patreon episodes and regular episodes, but also channels about random true crime stuff you want to talk about, like animal photos. It's like-

Speaker 2:
[00:49] Somebody started a channel about surfing. Just start it.

Speaker 1:
[00:52] Great.

Speaker 2:
[00:52] I'll jump in.

Speaker 1:
[00:53] That's the thing, because you can.

Speaker 2:
[00:54] Because you can.

Speaker 1:
[00:55] That's the beauty of it.

Speaker 2:
[00:56] Links to either. They're both in the show notes.

Speaker 1:
[00:57] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[00:58] What are we talking about today?

Speaker 1:
[00:59] We are talking about Wild Boys, Strangers in Town. This is two episodes on PowerRail Plus, but we're doing it in one because we can.

Speaker 2:
[01:04] Because we can.

Speaker 1:
[01:05] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[01:08] They were dubbed the Wild Boys, so-called Wild Boys after they caught the country's attention with an unbelievable tale.

Speaker 4:
[01:14] It was a definite split in the community.

Speaker 5:
[01:17] One was finding out who they were, and then there was a group of people, including myself, that were trying to help them. The younger one was extremely thin.

Speaker 6:
[01:25] The situation was getting dire.

Speaker 7:
[01:28] People started feeling unsafe.

Speaker 5:
[01:30] In my mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, they've been with my kids. They know where I live. They'd never been to school.

Speaker 6:
[01:36] There's no driving records, criminal records, nothing tangible.

Speaker 8:
[01:40] What do you know about your parents?

Speaker 5:
[01:42] Are they criminals? Maybe this is all lies.

Speaker 9:
[01:45] People wanted answers.

Speaker 6:
[01:46] I was getting more and more frustrated. It was my job to get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 5:
[01:50] Are they criminals?

Speaker 7:
[01:51] What are they hiding from?

Speaker 5:
[01:52] Maybe they're in a cult.

Speaker 8:
[01:57] It's not my job to tell you the truth.

Speaker 1:
[02:01] So we start off with a very serious retelling of the cinematic masterpiece that is Encino Man.

Speaker 2:
[02:06] Oh, yes.

Speaker 1:
[02:07] And if you don't know about Encino Man, Paulie Shore and Sean Astin discover Brendan Fraser.

Speaker 2:
[02:12] I forgot that Paulie Shore was in that.

Speaker 1:
[02:14] Yeah, he's like frozen in a block of ice in Sean Astin's backyard, I think. And they thaw him out and they name him Link and then like hijinks and sue as they like acclimate him to 1992 California.

Speaker 3:
[02:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:23] This guy is explaining that walking out of the wilderness, like this is how he felt. And I'm like, super crazy that you knew about Encino Man.

Speaker 3:
[02:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:32] In the wilderness. But this dramatic retelling of Encino Man. I'm like, look, I am here for the shirtless Brendan Fraser in the first two minutes of this thing.

Speaker 2:
[02:40] For sure.

Speaker 3:
[02:40] Let's do it.

Speaker 2:
[02:41] There's a lot of clues that not all is what it seems.

Speaker 1:
[02:43] From the beginning.

Speaker 2:
[02:44] So we're in a place called Vernon, British Columbia. They say it's a town frozen in time.

Speaker 1:
[02:48] I was like, is that an Encino Man reference? I see you Sean the Mayor.

Speaker 2:
[02:53] It's a caveman frozen in time.

Speaker 4:
[02:54] The best analogy might be it was an AM radio station in an FM stereo world. But it was a great place to visit and an even better place to live.

Speaker 1:
[03:06] The media didn't give a shit about us, but it was a great place to live and visit and be the mayor of.

Speaker 2:
[03:11] They also say it's very remote, like two miles in any direction, you're in the prime evil wilderness.

Speaker 4:
[03:16] Prime evil?

Speaker 1:
[03:17] I know.

Speaker 2:
[03:18] Are there wildebeests in there?

Speaker 1:
[03:19] I'm like, well, the wilderness is the-

Speaker 2:
[03:20] Or woolly mammoths? What are the ones that are gone? The woolly mammoths?

Speaker 1:
[03:22] Woolly mammoths, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:23] What's a wildebeest? We did this already.

Speaker 1:
[03:25] Wildebeests is what killed Mufasa and the Lion King.

Speaker 2:
[03:28] And they're still with us?

Speaker 1:
[03:29] They're still with us.

Speaker 2:
[03:30] As far as we know.

Speaker 1:
[03:31] They are.

Speaker 2:
[03:31] Today, we don't know. Look, it's only Tuesday. It's already been a long week. We don't know. Anything can happen.

Speaker 1:
[03:36] They killed Mufasa. But to be fair, the whole scar did it on purpose. He spooked them and made them start running. It's not like they were like, it's Mufasa, let's get him.

Speaker 2:
[03:43] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[03:43] I can't talk about the line.

Speaker 2:
[03:45] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[03:45] It's too sad. Let me tell you, though, Tammy Ryder's here. She gets shit done.

Speaker 2:
[03:49] Tammy Ryder die, am I right? 100%. I just came up with that.

Speaker 1:
[03:54] For better or worse. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[03:57] That's exactly right. For better or worse. Because I do want to say, they say that like we're in Canada, and they say as Canadians, there's a tendency to help your neighbor, to help your community.

Speaker 1:
[04:05] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[04:06] It's very come from away from my Broadway people.

Speaker 1:
[04:08] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[04:09] You know what I mean? Welcome to the Rock.

Speaker 1:
[04:10] And so it's 2003, Tammy's 34. She says these are her words. Her life was her kids.

Speaker 2:
[04:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:16] She was helping out in the classrooms and all the activities. And she was with her kids at the library. And she sees these two boys.

Speaker 5:
[04:23] The younger one was extremely thin and looked sick. And he was just following behind the older one. I remember thinking something was wrong.

Speaker 2:
[04:37] The younger one is like following around the older one. That dynamic seems to be important in this as well.

Speaker 1:
[04:43] And we hear that about a million times.

Speaker 2:
[04:45] Yeah, and she learns that they're living behind this small store in town, in a tent in the woods. And she finds out that they're coming into the store to use the payphone a lot. And Tammy, ride or die, I'm obsessed with her because she's like, I wanna help these kids, God damn it, I'm gonna. She leaves an envelope full of quarters and a note that's like, here's my number, call me, I can help you. Can you imagine?

Speaker 1:
[05:06] Right, and they, of course, at first, I didn't know any, you listened to the podcast.

Speaker 2:
[05:10] I did. The podcast came out many years ago and I kind of forgot what the whole story was here. But yeah, I mean, like that is, this is a lady who like really put in her Canadian where her mouth is. Like, you know what I mean? Like really here to help her neighbor.

Speaker 1:
[05:23] And they call right away, again, they know Encino Man, how to use pay phones in the wilderness. And they call right away and they're like, Tammy girl.

Speaker 2:
[05:29] Wait, do you not trust that what they say happened is what happened?

Speaker 1:
[05:32] The minute we're talking about Encino Man, first you have my attention. And number two, I was like, thumbs up. And then the pay phone, we get thrown in. So, but like obviously, they accept Tammy's help. Who wouldn't?

Speaker 2:
[05:45] Right, of course, of course. And so Tammy comes down and meets them, brings them food. They're very grateful. But like also loving Tammy, because now she's putting her mom where her mouth is, because she brought them like ring dings and ho ho's and Pringles.

Speaker 1:
[05:56] And they didn't want any of it.

Speaker 2:
[05:57] They didn't want any of that. They only wanted like healthy food.

Speaker 1:
[06:00] And she says, you know, they're like painfully shy. And the younger one was about 15 or 16 years old, very skinny, looked sick. And again, we'll hear that a million times.

Speaker 2:
[06:07] I trade my kid for a ring ding right now. Look, a ho ho.

Speaker 1:
[06:11] It's 432. That's the snack hour.

Speaker 2:
[06:14] Totally. The husband, the kid and the dog for a ring ding and a ho ho. I'll get the dog back.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] Let's like put them on hold for a second.

Speaker 2:
[06:21] But it'll go to when I'm going to rehome my entire family. But they're going to go somewhere nice.

Speaker 1:
[06:25] And then what happens in 30 seconds when the snacks are gone? Then you're looking around saying wait a second.

Speaker 2:
[06:29] Podcast co-hosts, I trade for snowball. Wait a second. Girl, Chime is back. Look, Fam, Chime is changing the way people bank. This is not like your old school banks that charge you overdraft fees or monthly fees. They also aren't charging fees for their ATMs. It's incredible.

Speaker 1:
[06:48] Yeah. This is fee-free banking built for you.

Speaker 2:
[06:51] Yeah. So listen, Chime members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards fee-free.

Speaker 1:
[06:59] And direct deposit unlocks the most rewarding way to bank at Chime.

Speaker 2:
[07:03] Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. Real humans 24-7. You cannot put a price on that.

Speaker 1:
[07:09] I have to say, nowadays, yeah. I know.

Speaker 2:
[07:11] Literally.

Speaker 1:
[07:11] Yeah. And you're not just switching banks, you're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking with a Chime checking account.

Speaker 2:
[07:16] Plus, summertime, tis the season to travel, Fam. You get premium travel perks like airport lounge access and 24-7 travel concierge included with your Chime card. That airport lounge situation will change your life.

Speaker 1:
[07:27] That's true. They also have SpotMe, which lets you overdraft up to 200 bucks fee free.

Speaker 2:
[07:31] This would have changed my life in my 20s. I'm obsessed. I don't know why everybody isn't on this. And Fam, Chime is not just smarter banking, it's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today.

Speaker 1:
[07:42] Head to chime.com/tco.

Speaker 2:
[07:44] That's chime.com/tco.

Speaker 1:
[07:46] It only takes a few minutes to sign up.

Speaker 2:
[07:47] Go sign up, Fam. Get that fee free ATM. Don't get charged to spend your own money.

Speaker 1:
[07:52] Fee free. We're doing it. So the boys are here with us today. We meet Tom Green first. Nope, not that Canadian Tom Green. Different Canadian Tom Green.

Speaker 2:
[08:08] The former Mr. Drew Barrymore.

Speaker 1:
[08:10] Look.

Speaker 2:
[08:10] I forgot about that.

Speaker 1:
[08:12] It's kind of the only thing I remember about him.

Speaker 2:
[08:14] Can I tell you, I saw a thing today, Drew Barrymore was on her show talking about how she saw a hot guy in a store. She was with Ross Matthews and she's like, hilarious Ross Matthews. I know. And she's like, I think he's so hot. I wish I could just go tell him. And Ross is like, you're Drew Barrymore, pretend this is a rom-com and go tell him. Go do it. She did. She saw that he wasn't wearing a ring. She went and told him. She's like, I just think you're very handsome. And he's like, oh my God, I'm married. And she's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, imagine like Drew Barrymore, just putting her Drew Barrymore where her mouth is.

Speaker 1:
[08:43] The only way, the only person who could pull that off is Drew.

Speaker 2:
[08:46] The only person in the world.

Speaker 1:
[08:48] Now, when I think of Drew Barrymore, I don't think of Tom Green. But when I think of Tom Green, I think of Drew Barrymore. Drew Barrymore stands on her own.

Speaker 2:
[08:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah. No question.

Speaker 1:
[08:56] So Tom's the older brother. He's the healthier looking one who did all the talking. And he actually is still doing that right here in this documentary.

Speaker 2:
[09:02] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[09:02] And he tells everybody, I was born and raised in the wilderness of Canada, up near Revelstoke. That's up north of Vernon. My mom and dad and my younger brother, we grew up off grid in a cabin.

Speaker 2:
[09:20] They want us to believe that for whatever reason, they have just wandered out of the wilderness where they spent their entire lives.

Speaker 1:
[09:27] And now Will Green is here. Will's the younger brother.

Speaker 2:
[09:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[09:30] My name is Will Green and I was raised in the forest. And their parents taught them about Neverland and never growing up and being a child forever. And like, it's super inspiring and whimsical. And I'm like, I'm sorry, and unrealistic and damaging. I love whimsy. Find your whimsy elsewhere. This is like a stupid, I'm sorry, it's a dumb thing to teach your kids in this way, where it's like, Peter Pan is great, but like, it's not a life lesson. It's a story.

Speaker 2:
[09:53] You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[09:53] No, watch Hook. I'm just saying, like, come on, Rufi-O.

Speaker 2:
[09:58] Rufi-O, Rufi-O, Rufi-O. This is a welcome to our movie podcast.

Speaker 1:
[10:01] I went to grade school with Amber Scott.

Speaker 2:
[10:03] Who's she?

Speaker 1:
[10:03] She was a little girl in Hook. She sang that song. Really? Yeah, she was super cool.

Speaker 2:
[10:07] Remember when Julia Roberts and Seamus Spielberg were in a feud?

Speaker 1:
[10:10] They called her Tinker Hell.

Speaker 9:
[10:12] You don't know about this?

Speaker 1:
[10:14] She allegedly had like a bit of an attitude on set because she, like the special effect, she had to be Tinker Bell and like she was so much smaller so she didn't really get to interact with everyone.

Speaker 2:
[10:23] They called her Tinker Hell?

Speaker 1:
[10:25] The story is that she was like nicknamed Tinker Hell. I doubt Robin Williams participated in this.

Speaker 2:
[10:29] Absolutely not.

Speaker 1:
[10:30] But the story is that she had like a different, like it looks like one of the most fun sets on earth.

Speaker 2:
[10:36] No question.

Speaker 1:
[10:37] And Amber and her mom like told everyone that like it was the best.

Speaker 2:
[10:40] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[10:41] According to the lore, Julia Roberts was sort of isolated from everyone and didn't get to have as much fun as she had a little bit of an alleged attitude about it. And so they called her Tinker Hell. I don't know anything.

Speaker 2:
[10:51] You're having that anecdote in the chamber makes me feel like you've been sitting there waiting for me to reference Hook for nine years.

Speaker 1:
[10:58] I can talk about Hook relentlessly.

Speaker 2:
[11:00] Unbelievable.

Speaker 1:
[11:01] Yeah, I thought everyone knew Tinker Hell.

Speaker 2:
[11:03] No, I will never forget it now though.

Speaker 1:
[11:05] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[11:05] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[11:06] But find your whimsy somewhere else because I love whimsy, but this can be a little damaging when the kids are like 26 and 16, 23 and 16 or whatever.

Speaker 2:
[11:15] Don't teach your kids they can live forever. You know what I mean? That's not a thing.

Speaker 1:
[11:18] Because you can't.

Speaker 2:
[11:19] No.

Speaker 1:
[11:19] So Tammy says that they didn't go to school, they've never been to the doctor, they're not socialized. Again, because they grew up in the wilderness totally isolated from everyone.

Speaker 2:
[11:28] Now, we love Tammy ride or die, but she has taken the story verbatim. Hook, Lyman, Tinker, she believes every single thing that she's been told.

Speaker 1:
[11:37] So Randy from the Royal Canadian Blanket Police.

Speaker 2:
[11:39] Wet Blanket Police is more like it.

Speaker 1:
[11:41] He's here to give everyone a cold, hard, gross reality.

Speaker 2:
[11:44] The Royal Canadian Wet Blanket Police.

Speaker 7:
[11:47] Just because somebody tells you something, that doesn't mean it's real. I need fact. As soon as the story started bubbling, the first thing that came to my mind was, OK, number one, who are these people? Why are they in Vernon? And then the natural thing is, what are they hiding from? Who are they hiding from?

Speaker 1:
[12:07] Why are they in Vernon? What are they hiding from? Also, my questions to add to those are, where are the parents? Why did the brothers leave the forest? How do they know what a payphone was? Like, why do they have such a perfect grip on the English language when they just like...

Speaker 2:
[12:19] Like, how did they just know that story about Tinker Hell?

Speaker 1:
[12:22] Right.

Speaker 2:
[12:23] You know what I mean? How did they just know that Julia Roberts was referred to as Tinker Hell on that set?

Speaker 1:
[12:28] And they weren't just like absolutely terrified. Like, what's a car?

Speaker 2:
[12:31] What's a...

Speaker 1:
[12:32] Like, how are they just not like shuddering in fear? Meanwhile, they're like, I know what a quarter is, and I know how to use a pay phone.

Speaker 2:
[12:38] Look at that metal flying bird. They had planes in the 60s, Jenna.

Speaker 1:
[12:41] Like, what is going on?

Speaker 2:
[12:42] I know, I know.

Speaker 1:
[12:43] But now the town's divided. And like, the truth is clearly somewhere in the middle. But like, half the town hates them because Tammy's being nice to them. And half the town is like, come on, they are like wolf children from the woods.

Speaker 2:
[12:54] Let's be nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, like, Canadians are really nice until they're not. Because now we've got every other Canadian on TV being like, they're scammers. They want our money.

Speaker 1:
[13:03] Well, I mean, look, what I kind of resent here is that because the truth is so clearly in the middle, anyone who has a question is villainized. I'm like, I have 10 million questions. Lock me up.

Speaker 2:
[13:13] Well, but I also think, too, that these people don't appreciate the idea of being taken advantage of because we're going to learn quickly. The town comes out to help these kids. They're basically giving them an allowance. And the town is kind of like, some of them are like, why are we doing that? Because that nice lady, Tammy Rider Die said to.

Speaker 1:
[13:27] Basically. So Sean the Mayor explains that in the 70s, a lot of Americans ran away to this area of Canada to avoid going to the Vietnam War. It's like two and a half hours from the border, according to Google Maps.

Speaker 4:
[13:37] And so he's saying like, So if a young man in his early 20s had decided to cross the border and go off the grid in an attempt to avoid deportation, in theory, it was possible that two kids had lived completely unplugged from civilization.

Speaker 1:
[13:55] It's not totally out of the realm of possibility that Tom and Will are kids of people who did this in the 70s and have just been totally off the grid. Now, that doesn't explain why they're in the wilderness completely, but why people would want to be off the grid so they didn't get caught running away.

Speaker 2:
[14:10] That it would have been possible to achieve this. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility.

Speaker 1:
[14:15] The brothers are like, well, we loved living in the woods, but they always wondered about people in the outside world. I'm like, yeah, you're Ariel under the sea and you just want to be part of our world.

Speaker 2:
[14:25] Exactly. Up where they walk, up where they run. But Will is also saying that they grew up with the idea that people were dangerous.

Speaker 1:
[14:31] So then why did you leave your parents?

Speaker 2:
[14:32] Right. Well, because some day you got to leave Neverland. You know what I mean? Do you? I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[14:37] According to these people, they are still, their feet are firmly planted in Neverland.

Speaker 2:
[14:41] And the other thing too is that the documentary makers give us all of these shots of these boys in the water, in these streams and creeks. I'm like, I want to move into the woods.

Speaker 1:
[14:50] Yeah. It's stunning, but let's be realistic.

Speaker 2:
[14:53] Yeah. Well, Tammy finds them a place to stay at the local hostel. And this is where we learn too that Will, the younger one, is afraid of the shower and the blow dryer.

Speaker 1:
[15:02] Yeah. I also want to just give Tammy credit, too, because she's saying here, she's like, she also had these questions, but she knew they needed help and one of them was extremely malnourished and she didn't want to scare them off. So she's not sitting here looking like, oh my God, like this is a totally innocent, totally normal situation. Like she gets it, but she wants to help them.

Speaker 2:
[15:20] What is happening here is either these kids did flee their life in the forest or they're having some insane mental health crisis. One or the other is happening here.

Speaker 1:
[15:29] And also some hair dryers are just way too loud.

Speaker 2:
[15:31] I couldn't agree more. As a person who discovered a hair dryer on tour in Pittsburgh about 18 months ago, and I live by it now, I absolutely agree.

Speaker 1:
[15:41] Some of them are way too loud.

Speaker 2:
[15:42] Way too loud.

Speaker 1:
[15:42] Too much.

Speaker 2:
[15:43] You're just trying to rock out to your out of the woods in the morning.

Speaker 1:
[15:45] It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2:
[15:46] And like it shuts down the sound. Yeah. It's too much. It's not fair.

Speaker 1:
[15:49] And then you're hot.

Speaker 2:
[15:50] No, I was just gonna say it does immediately warm a cold bathroom.

Speaker 1:
[15:53] Yeah, but you are respectfully using it way less time than I am.

Speaker 2:
[15:58] Oh, that's for sure true.

Speaker 1:
[16:00] It's when you know, when you're like, I just did my everything shower and now I'm drying my hair and now I'm sweating again. What is the point? I will just yeet myself off the nearest cliff. Thank you. It is the most infuriating thing.

Speaker 2:
[16:10] You tried that in Action Park as a kid and it didn't go well.

Speaker 1:
[16:13] And then the fucking wire is banging in.

Speaker 10:
[16:17] Uh-huh.

Speaker 2:
[16:18] I get in trouble at my house because I put it back in the drawer in our little vanity and then I close it, but the wire gets stuck.

Speaker 1:
[16:24] I mean, I could kill myself.

Speaker 10:
[16:25] I know.

Speaker 2:
[16:26] We need you.

Speaker 1:
[16:27] It's like, it's too, it is so, it is a maddening situation.

Speaker 2:
[16:31] No, suddenly it's tinker hell up in here.

Speaker 1:
[16:33] And then it's like, oh my God, it's a hair wash day. Jesus Christ. Maybe the wilderness isn't looking so bad.

Speaker 2:
[16:38] I know. You never have to shower out there.

Speaker 1:
[16:40] Well, she, speaking of showers, she wanted them to take showers and they like were fighting her on it. And so Tammy's like, okay, clearly things were not normal in the wilderness where they came from.

Speaker 2:
[16:50] Yeah. And like, this is where Tom, the older one, is saying that the hostel is really perfect.

Speaker 8:
[16:55] You know, they had a computer that anyone there could use. And that was a crazy experience. Growing up, you know, computer, TV, we didn't have any of that stuff.

Speaker 1:
[17:10] And tell me how you know about the computer, Tommy.

Speaker 2:
[17:12] Suddenly, Tom is on this computer for hours at a time. Probably watching Encino Man on repeat.

Speaker 7:
[17:17] Uh-oh.

Speaker 1:
[17:19] But meanwhile, Tammy was incredible to them. Like she gave them, they said she accepted us like we were family. She led us into her home. And they say now, like she was compassionate, empathetic, sensitive. She really cared.

Speaker 2:
[17:31] I don't understand why everybody wouldn't be like that. It's like these are these are people, they're human beings that need help. And I think Tammy is doing exactly the right way. She's helping with a reasonable dose of skepticism. But at the same time, knowing that these kids need help.

Speaker 1:
[17:45] Yeah. So Henry is another cop. He might be one of the first cops we've met who actually admits that he enjoys being in a position of authority, which is a direct quote. He's like, oh, I like being a cop because I want to like tell people what to do.

Speaker 6:
[17:57] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:58] He loves it. And he says he was assigned to figure out who these kids were. Like, were they dangerous? Were they running from something? And so-

Speaker 1:
[18:04] Most importantly, though, he doesn't believe a goddamn word they say.

Speaker 2:
[18:07] No, not from the jump. And at the end of the day, Henry's going to come out on top of this story.

Speaker 1:
[18:14] I know. He got there. I don't love how he got there, but-

Speaker 2:
[18:17] His bedside manner is not great. No.

Speaker 1:
[18:20] When you're not even hiding that you're in this gig for the authority.

Speaker 11:
[18:23] Uh-huh. I know.

Speaker 2:
[18:26] It leaves a lot to be desired. I will agree with you on that.

Speaker 1:
[18:28] It's not my favorite thing.

Speaker 2:
[18:29] He's saying he runs their names through the system, nothing comes up. No hospital records, no school records, no driving records.

Speaker 1:
[18:34] Obviously, they were born next to a creek.

Speaker 2:
[18:36] And I'm like, doesn't that prove their story, Henry? No, it just makes you more suspicious. But yeah, he thought they were lying right from the start. Just more to your point, how he describes them more than anything else is unarrestable.

Speaker 1:
[18:48] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:48] He's like, they've committed no offenses, they're unarrestable.

Speaker 1:
[18:50] They're just kind of there.

Speaker 2:
[18:51] I'm like, that's an interesting way of saying to normal human beings wandering through the world, having done nothing wrong.

Speaker 1:
[18:56] Right, no fun for Henry.

Speaker 2:
[18:58] I know. Girl, Rocket Money is back. You know I can't keep track of anything, which is why I signed up for Rocket Money, because I'm always afraid that I'm still paying for subscriptions I haven't used in 10 years. Not with Rocket Money, girl.

Speaker 1:
[19:11] No, because this is helping you track your subscriptions. You also have the ability to cancel unwanted ones with the app just a few taps, and it's saving users over $880 million in canceled subscriptions. Not a typo.

Speaker 2:
[19:25] Cancel that stuff.

Speaker 1:
[19:26] Are you kidding? And this isn't just about subscriptions. You can set budgets. You can set goals. You get personalized insights. You get regular reports. It's all those things that people are scared about, about their bank account, like the fear of the unknown. Rocket Money clears it all up for you.

Speaker 2:
[19:39] And it puts it all in one place. So the app consolidates checking, saving, loans, and investments into a single dashboard to give you a clear picture of your finances. This is what I look at. It's all right there for you. There's no excuses. You gotta stare at the hard thing and you got it all in one place.

Speaker 1:
[19:55] Yeah, and if there's something where you're like, I forgot I had that. I don't even want that. I barely use that. That's why the subscriptions are so important because everyone has to subscribe to everything these days.

Speaker 2:
[20:04] Literally. So Fam, Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

Speaker 1:
[20:13] Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/obsessed.

Speaker 2:
[20:18] That's rocketmoney.com/obsessed.

Speaker 1:
[20:20] rocketmoney.com/obsessed. But Henry the Cop goes to the hostel to speak to them, and now of course we get two totally different versions of the story.

Speaker 2:
[20:31] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:31] According to the brothers, he was confrontational and intimidating. The Cop's like, we were professional and thorough. Tom says, we were being honest and God, he hated that. And Henry the Cop's like, these two had an answer for everything and they were being uncooperative.

Speaker 6:
[20:42] Henry says that Tom says, when asked, and then when they said their parents were Mary and Joseph, I thought, this is going nowhere.

Speaker 8:
[20:55] I was just telling the truth. That's their job to identify people. If they don't know who we are, that's on them.

Speaker 2:
[21:02] He basically does the Facebook.

Speaker 1:
[21:03] That's what he's like, all right, interview over. This, we're not going anywhere. Like, this is bullshit.

Speaker 2:
[21:09] But honestly, too, Tom, like, that's the quickest way to make people think that you're insane.

Speaker 1:
[21:13] Well, also, because Henry the Cop reiterates that Tom did all the talking. The younger one didn't say a word. And like, I'm just saying, this is a red flag that this 15-year-old kid who's malnourished and everyone who sees him for two seconds, like, he's dying, he looks so sick.

Speaker 2:
[21:26] And won't talk.

Speaker 1:
[21:27] And under the supervision of his brother, and they like, this is, Tom's doing all the talking, we don't know anything about them, like red flags out the wazoo.

Speaker 2:
[21:35] Yeah, and the food stuff is like really serious, because he's saying that like, he wouldn't eat anything that involved killing a plant, like he wouldn't eat a carrot because you had to pull it out of the ground.

Speaker 1:
[21:45] So both of the brothers are vegan, but Will is described as extreme.

Speaker 2:
[21:49] And a fruitarian, he says.

Speaker 1:
[21:50] So fruitarianism is real.

Speaker 2:
[21:52] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[21:53] And it's a diet made up of certain fruits, nuts and seeds. But some people won't even eat the seeds because the seeds will become a plant. And that's also too much.

Speaker 2:
[22:03] My question is like, what fruit doesn't have to die for you to eat it?

Speaker 1:
[22:06] Or if like an orange happened to fall off a tree. I'm not an expert on fruitarianism, but what I do know is that-

Speaker 2:
[22:13] What if I learned right now that you were an expert on fruitarianism?

Speaker 1:
[22:16] I Googled this for two seconds. I was like, this is pissing me off so much. So it's widely criticized because it's very dangerous and very unhealthy because you're not getting- You think like, oh, fruit is healthy. It's filled with sugar.

Speaker 2:
[22:27] And acid.

Speaker 1:
[22:28] It's filled with acid. You're not getting protein. You're not getting calcium. You're not getting iron. Like a lot of your like essential vitamins and nutrients and minerals, you're not getting just from fruit.

Speaker 2:
[22:37] There's also, and I say this respectfully to anybody who's listening who is a fruitarian, there's no need for it.

Speaker 1:
[22:42] No, no. I'm sorry. You're wrong. You're unhealthy. You're in danger. Please get the help you need. I mean that sincerely.

Speaker 2:
[22:49] I mean, it really sounds like disordered eating.

Speaker 1:
[22:51] It's like no nutrients, lots of fruit decay.

Speaker 2:
[22:53] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[22:54] And like at the very least, you will suffer from severe malnutrition, which is what we're seeing with Will.

Speaker 6:
[22:59] As the weeks went by, he was losing weight and was getting thinner and thinner.

Speaker 5:
[23:06] He was so malnourished. Very low energy, speaking very monotone. Just not like a regular teenager.

Speaker 1:
[23:16] You're just not getting what your body needs from just fruit.

Speaker 2:
[23:18] As the resident fruit, I will tell you that we are not enough.

Speaker 1:
[23:22] No.

Speaker 2:
[23:22] We are not enough. No. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[23:24] 100 percent.

Speaker 2:
[23:25] We are great.

Speaker 1:
[23:26] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[23:26] Have I dabbled in fruitarianism myself?

Speaker 1:
[23:30] Everyone needs a little bit more protein.

Speaker 2:
[23:31] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[23:32] That's all I'm saying. Okay? We need to meet on those bumps.

Speaker 11:
[23:34] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[23:35] So, but Tammy and Tom Green.

Speaker 11:
[23:37] This is the Tom Green Show.

Speaker 1:
[23:39] Not that Tom Green, this Tom Green, the older brother who's like the mouthpiece would fight about this. And Tammy's like, Will is a child and he's sick. And Tom's like, well, this is his choice. And he was like super nonchalant about the whole thing.

Speaker 2:
[23:51] Yeah. To be clear, like, Tom is fighting for the younger brother, Will's right to eat what he wants to eat.

Speaker 1:
[23:58] But he's not eating is the problem.

Speaker 2:
[24:00] And you look at him and like, I mean, he is gaunt. It doesn't even begin to describe it.

Speaker 1:
[24:04] It's very jarring. He is in danger. And Tammy, of course, anyone would be sitting there being like, we need to help him. He needs help.

Speaker 2:
[24:11] And, you know, he says that we haven't always been like this. Mary and Joseph, the parents apparently hunted and fished. So like they did eat meat at some point, but they're just not doing it now.

Speaker 1:
[24:20] But then Tom says to us today in the doc that their parents didn't support this like extreme veganism. And veganism quote is not how they do it out there. So that's why we had to go. But they don't tell anybody this in the moment because everyone like when Tammy, like when they're with Tammy, no, they're not saying anything. So the less they say, the more questions everybody has.

Speaker 2:
[24:41] It's wild because there's a scene where it's Tom's birthday and Tammy has made him a cake.

Speaker 1:
[24:45] Oh, it's so sad.

Speaker 2:
[24:46] And he takes a bite of it and you can see Will, the younger one in the background, the look on his face looking at the cake. It's a look of desperation. It's a look of not knowing what to do and like the feelings he's feeling looking at the cake.

Speaker 1:
[25:00] And when you're so malnourished like that, you also just can't eat anything. Like you have to start slow. You know, your body is totally void of anything it really needs. So you can't just be like, oh, I'm gonna like go eat a bunch of burgers now. Like, no, no, no, don't do that either.

Speaker 7:
[25:13] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:13] This is a really sensitive thing.

Speaker 7:
[25:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:15] So now Tom, the older one wants to get a job.

Speaker 8:
[25:18] I was saying to Tammy, hey, I'm willing to work. Can you get me help so I can just get a job? We didn't have like birth certificates. We didn't have IDs. It all came down to getting identified.

Speaker 2:
[25:31] This is where the story starts to change because they, in order for Tom to get a job, he needs identification. And so they, Tammy is like, look, there's like a local, this was a little confusing to me. I don't understand how letting a local newspaper write a story about them is going to help them get identification. But one way or another, Tammy convinces them to let this little local paper write a story. Because remember, the boys are not talking to anybody about anything, barely even Tammy, but they agree to do this one interview.

Speaker 1:
[25:58] And the story blows up.

Speaker 2:
[25:59] And like, how could it not? It's like one little story about them gets picked up and it's all like, they are these two wild boys that wandered out of the forest and don't, are literally saying they spent their entire life eating out of the creek and growing up without electricity. And now they're here and aren't telling anybody anything else. So now the world is fascinated by them.

Speaker 1:
[26:20] But also, are your parents doing illegal things? Are there more kids being abused? They're not telling anybody anything, which is also kind of weird, because they're also not acting like they escaped anything.

Speaker 2:
[26:33] Right. Because they're not giving any information, it comes off as though they're being secretive.

Speaker 1:
[26:37] Right. And now this divides the town even more. The town was already divided, but half of the town is giving these boys a ton of money, and the other half is like, why?

Speaker 5:
[26:45] There was a community member that called me in the middle of the night, drunk, freaking out, and basically accusing me of helping these boys who probably didn't need the help. She was just convinced they were lying. I remember just feeling a lot of pressure. I don't know what to do, I'm just a mom.

Speaker 2:
[27:06] This lady, Tinker Hell, calls Tammie in the middle of the night drunk to complain. I love that little tidbit. I was like, whoa, put the chardonnay down, Samantha.

Speaker 1:
[27:15] Because that's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[27:16] That is crazy.

Speaker 1:
[27:17] Please.

Speaker 2:
[27:17] Because it's like a town where everybody knows everybody.

Speaker 1:
[27:19] But like drunk dialing Tammie now, hasn't she been through enough?

Speaker 2:
[27:21] Yeah, I feel like Samantha's had an axe to grind with Tammie from the beginning. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[27:25] Shut up, Samantha.

Speaker 2:
[27:26] I know. Poor Tammie's getting it from all sides.

Speaker 1:
[27:29] But she is though, so the pressure is mounting because now there's all this attention on the boys because of this newspaper article. Tammie gets them a lawyer and now they're protected by Tammie and this legal team so no one can ask them anything and now the cops are seeing Tammie as this obstacle because she's protecting them and they're like, we have a ton of questions and now she, it's just a mess.

Speaker 2:
[27:48] It's like Henry from the Royal Mounted Wet Blanket Society is like, why did they need a lawyer? And I'm kind of on his side. Although I think when you're Tammie, you're kind of just like, this is out of my hands now.

Speaker 1:
[28:00] Well, she's not, with no shade at all, she's not equipped for this part of it. She didn't know, she gave them quarters and said like, do you need help? But they're also like refusing a lot of help. They're not like, help me help you.

Speaker 2:
[28:11] But the thing too, for the Tammies of the world, of which I consider myself probably one, this is what's always going to happen when you try to help the two wild boys that wandered out of the forest. It's never going to be simple.

Speaker 1:
[28:21] No, because now Tom starts fighting with her. Like she is begging for any information to help them and he's refusing. And eventually she's like, do you know how much I've done for you?

Speaker 2:
[28:31] I know.

Speaker 1:
[28:31] Like all I'm trying to do is help you and you're not giving me anything. You need to give me information. If you want to be independent, like you have to work with me here.

Speaker 2:
[28:38] Can I just say, I don't mean to make up a sweeping generalized statement, but here's something I want to say about all Canadians. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[28:44] Oh, God.

Speaker 2:
[28:44] They are the most selfless kind of people. And I'm only like my greatest reference for this has come from away. And if you don't know that story, Fam, in two sentences, it's like on 9-11 when all these flights could not come back to America, they were diverted to a town called Gander in Canada. And like literally the town quintupled in size overnight. And the entire town came together to like take care of these people where there was like chaos in their homeland and couldn't get back.

Speaker 1:
[29:13] It's a really beautiful story.

Speaker 2:
[29:14] It's such a beautiful story and it's so well told. But I'm like just thinking about like Tammy and I'm like, God, you're such a Gander in, you know.

Speaker 1:
[29:20] Classic Canada.

Speaker 2:
[29:21] Classic Canada. Girl, Home Chef is back. I'm so excited to talk about it again because I now officially cook dinner for my family like one or two times a week.

Speaker 1:
[29:32] Isn't it so great?

Speaker 2:
[29:33] It is and I feel like I'm contributing to like the nighttime things that have to get done. They make it so easy. My favorite thing too is that they've got all different ways you can do it. If you like to chop and cook, you can do it that way. If you got the ones you just want to like literally unwrap and throw in the oven, you can do it that way. If you want to do the ones you pop in the microwave, you can do it that way.

Speaker 1:
[29:48] And I'm also like a meal kit girl. So I've tried a lot of them. I have to say Home Chef, I use it. I love it. The meals are a lot more like elevated than the other ones, but they're not more difficult than the other ones.

Speaker 2:
[30:00] Well, and let me tell you, they work with chefs like Gordon Ramsey, and now they're partnering with Giada De Laurentiis, bringing restaurant quality recipes straight to your kitchen. And it looks like it, and it smells like it.

Speaker 1:
[30:10] And it tastes like it.

Speaker 2:
[30:11] I cannot tell you how easy they make it. They, like, you look at the directions, and, like, everything you need is pre-portioned, it's right there. You unzip one thing, it tells you exactly where to dump it. You do a little stir, stir, you dump it on a plate, and it is delicious and gorgeous.

Speaker 1:
[30:22] Yeah, I'm not alone. People really love it. Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. I am here to tell you that is 100% true.

Speaker 2:
[30:31] And you're saving money, Fam. Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries.

Speaker 1:
[30:36] And it feels nice. You're like, hey, dinner's ready.

Speaker 2:
[30:38] I really like it.

Speaker 1:
[30:39] I love it.

Speaker 2:
[30:40] So, Fam, for a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box, plus my favorite free dessert for life.

Speaker 1:
[30:47] Go to homechef.com/tco.

Speaker 2:
[30:49] That's homechef.com/tco for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life.

Speaker 1:
[30:54] homechef.com/tcomust be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.

Speaker 2:
[30:59] But you're going to thank us.

Speaker 1:
[31:00] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[31:00] You really are. Girl, Hiya is back. I got to tell you as a parent because these are the vitamins for the kids, right? Right, right. Well, I was raised on like super processed foods. My mom did the best she could, but I love knowing that I'm giving my kid the real deal. And when it comes to kids' vitamins, we know the ones that we know are filled with sugar. They're not actually good for you. That is where Hiya comes in.

Speaker 1:
[31:17] Yeah. The ingredient list is super clean, non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free. They've thought of everything.

Speaker 2:
[31:25] And they love to take it. Daisy loves it. And here's something every parent needs to hear. If getting your kids to eat vegetables feels like an impossible battle, Hiya's New Kids Daily Greens Plus Superfoods is a total game changer. Daisy loves it. It's basically chocolate milk stuffed with veggies. It's a green powder designed specifically for kids that's packed with 55 plus whole food sourced ingredients. And it's super easy. All you do is mix one scoop with milk or any milk alternative and watch them actually enjoy something secretly fueling their growing bodies. It's like Daisy even now knows that there's veggies in it and she still loves it.

Speaker 1:
[31:55] Yeah, that's great. And they send stickers and the kids can decorate the bottles with the stickers.

Speaker 2:
[32:01] Who doesn't love a sticker?

Speaker 1:
[32:02] And I don't know why that's not also for adults. I know this is for kids. I'm just saying.

Speaker 2:
[32:06] So, Fam, we've worked out a special deal with Hiya for their best selling children's vitamin.

Speaker 1:
[32:10] Receive 50 percent off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to hiyahealth.com/tco.

Speaker 2:
[32:16] This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to hiyahealth.com/tco and get your kids the full body nourishment. They need to grow into healthy adults.

Speaker 1:
[32:28] There you go.

Speaker 2:
[32:28] And feel good doing it.

Speaker 1:
[32:30] And be a little jealous of the stickers. That's totally normal in Plain.

Speaker 2:
[32:33] Truly that.

Speaker 1:
[32:34] That's fine. So, Tom realizes he needs to, quote, give her some goodwill. So, he's like, okay, I will, let's go into the woods and I'll ask my parents some questions. So, she's driving.

Speaker 2:
[32:47] Because the other thing, too, is that he refuses to tell anybody where his parents actually are.

Speaker 1:
[32:51] Right.

Speaker 2:
[32:52] You know, and then, like, the cops like, then we'll send helicopters out. They're like, no, our house is, our cabin has been covered. Like, we did that on purpose.

Speaker 1:
[32:58] This is just so annoying to me. But they, like, she drives out deep into the woods alone with these two, two boys she doesn't know taking their direction. I'm like, everyone's lost the plot. This is way too dangerous.

Speaker 2:
[33:08] Never do this.

Speaker 1:
[33:08] And finally, they're-

Speaker 2:
[33:09] I don't care how Canadian you are.

Speaker 1:
[33:10] Right. They're like, uh, yeah, over here. This is good. This is, this is where they are. Like, that's the ticket. So then they leave her in the car. Yeah. And this is when she starts to spiral. And she's like, wait a second.

Speaker 5:
[33:21] I was sitting in the car for what seemed like forever. And I just started spinning at that point, being like, are they criminals? Like, are we in danger? In my mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, they've been with my kids. You know, they know where I live.

Speaker 1:
[33:35] Once she's sort of alone for a second in the wilderness by herself, she's like, shit.

Speaker 2:
[33:40] This is not good.

Speaker 1:
[33:40] And an hour later, the boys come back and they're like, oh, they didn't say anything.

Speaker 2:
[33:46] We saw them and they said they wouldn't help us and we weren't allowed to come in the house.

Speaker 1:
[33:49] And Tammy's like, you didn't see them.

Speaker 2:
[33:50] And they're like, actually, no, we didn't.

Speaker 1:
[33:52] Yeah, no, I just played along with you to give you some goodwill and I'm not gonna compromise their location. That sentence fucking put me through the roof.

Speaker 2:
[34:00] I know.

Speaker 1:
[34:00] That is the most irritating. What, are they fucking CIA now? You're not gonna compromise them? What are we doing here?

Speaker 2:
[34:06] At that point, it's like, Tammy, you did what you could. You know what I mean? Drive them, don't leave them in the woods because Lord knows these kids from the woods don't actually know how to survive in the woods.

Speaker 1:
[34:14] Right, at this point, I'm like, then go do it.

Speaker 2:
[34:16] Bring them back, let them go back to the hostel, go back to your life. Like, these kids for her are, like, beyond helping any more than she already has.

Speaker 1:
[34:24] Well, Henry the Cop is like, yeah, I could have told you that this would have been a waste of time. But Tammy, according to Henry, who again, don't love the way he does things.

Speaker 2:
[34:33] I know.

Speaker 1:
[34:33] But he says that it felt like Tammy was, like, insisting on making it us versus them. The cops are being aggressive, Tammy's being protective.

Speaker 2:
[34:40] I do wonder if there's a little bit of self-preservation on Tammy's part. Now, like, drunk Samantha called her and yelled at her, and now she's gotta prove to Samantha that, like, no, these kids are actually good people.

Speaker 1:
[34:49] And of course she's not gonna tell the cops that she's gonna do this, because she knows in her heart that they're gonna tell her not to.

Speaker 2:
[34:54] Right, and like, she probably also knows in her heart that the boy's story is bullshit.

Speaker 1:
[34:57] But also, bullshit or not, Will is dying. Like, he's so malnourished, he's so sick, he's refusing to eat, like, he's getting worse by the day. Like, something's gotta give here. Like, she sees this teenager on, like, really.

Speaker 2:
[35:09] No, well, he's 85 pounds and over six feet tall.

Speaker 1:
[35:11] That's insane.

Speaker 2:
[35:12] I know.

Speaker 1:
[35:13] So obviously, she's like, something is very wrong, and she just wants to get to the bottom of it. And I don't blame her for that one bit.

Speaker 2:
[35:18] So she calls Henry, the guy from the RCMP, like, she's like, all right, we were on opposing sides, but now we're together. Like, I know where they are, go pick them up. Like, Will's gonna die if you don't do something.

Speaker 1:
[35:27] Right.

Speaker 8:
[35:28] That day, I walked to the health store. I was buying oranges and all my fruit that I normally buy.

Speaker 6:
[35:36] I approached him, told him he was being apprehended under the Mental Health Act of British Columbia.

Speaker 8:
[35:43] He put me in caps and put me in like a freaking cop car.

Speaker 2:
[35:47] Henry goes and gets him and apprehends him under the Mental Health Act of British Columbia, and which basically means like if you are a danger to yourself or to others, we can detain you. Now, this is where I'm with you that Henry handles this all wrong.

Speaker 1:
[36:00] No, I hated this.

Speaker 2:
[36:01] Because they're in the car on the way and like I in Henry's mind, in some way, he probably feels like he's one here.

Speaker 1:
[36:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[36:08] And so he's a little taunting the boys on the way to the hospital and he's like they're going to force feed him cheeseburgers.

Speaker 1:
[36:14] Because Will is terrified. Like Will, whatever is going on in Will's mind is incredibly real.

Speaker 3:
[36:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:18] He's not eating because he's scared to eat.

Speaker 3:
[36:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:20] So when this cop is like, well, too bad, bucko. They're going to make eat. Like this guy kind of, I know it's my opinion, I'm just saying. He kind of feels like the guy doesn't get addiction.

Speaker 10:
[36:30] Like he doesn't like just stop.

Speaker 1:
[36:32] Yeah. Just leave. Leave the abuser. Leave. Put down the bottle. Like he doesn't really seem like he gets it. So he's definitely not going to take this as a mental health crisis.

Speaker 2:
[36:40] Well, because then also like Will, the younger one who's dying, like this could end up with him being like restrained and like force fed. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[36:50] He's that bad. He's that sick.

Speaker 2:
[36:51] It really is. And Will, I think, knows this and like I think for him, like that's death to him. Like he'd rather die than have that happen.

Speaker 1:
[36:58] Right. And Henry the Cop's like, I don't deny it. I probably said that crack about the burgers.

Speaker 2:
[37:02] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:04] So we meet Timothy. He's a TV producer for a show called Disclosure.

Speaker 2:
[37:08] I just love Canadian so much because Timothy is just kind of like, yeah, it's a big story.

Speaker 6:
[37:13] We're going to get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 2:
[37:14] You know what I mean?

Speaker 6:
[37:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:15] So he knows that the brothers have never spoken publicly, but he also knows that Will is now admitted to the hospital.

Speaker 11:
[37:20] That was our goal, was to see if we could get an interview with them, get them to talk and learn more about them. I went to Vernon not knowing how long it was going to take. I didn't have a return ticket.

Speaker 2:
[37:34] He goes to Vernon with no return ticket. This guy is all in.

Speaker 1:
[37:37] I do want to say Will does not want to be in the hospital. He has no ID. This is just by definition a very vulnerable, scary place to be in, if you will. Because no one can find you, no one can help you. Maybe this is the American in me, but you're just in the system and no one knows how to help you.

Speaker 2:
[37:54] When we learned the true story, it didn't have to go down like this.

Speaker 1:
[37:57] Right, which is why they're not telling the truth. I'm sitting here thinking telling the truth will help them. I'm not saying that in a just confess and you can see your mom kind of way. I'm saying it as like, if the truth-

Speaker 2:
[38:08] I do feel like I've been up for 27 hours.

Speaker 1:
[38:11] I'm not saying it like that, but it does feel a little bit like, why aren't you saying, you're not saying anything for a reason. We all have to wake up a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[38:17] I do think we have to remember at least Will is a child and maybe he's starting to think like now if I tell the truth, I'm going to be in trouble. Not only are they going to do all these horrible things to me, but now we're too far into this lie.

Speaker 1:
[38:28] It's much bigger than anyone anticipated. So Timothy the reporter is saying he keeps trying to get Tom the older brother to tell their story and either he's refusing or he'd get close and then say no again. Tom, you suck, man.

Speaker 2:
[38:39] Tom does suck, but then Tom says that just when they were about to give up, I was like, okay, fine, we'll do it.

Speaker 1:
[38:44] Right. After months of negotiations, I'm like, how much money did you try to get for this? Negotiations just sounded interesting to me.

Speaker 2:
[38:51] Yeah. We're going to use that money in the wilderness. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[38:54] How many payphones could you really pay for?

Speaker 2:
[38:56] I think that Tom is just understanding that they're coming to the end of their control of this. At this point, it's just out of their hands.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] Well, guess what? Everything falls apart. They're completely full of shit, and they have been since the beginning. And as we end this first episode, we check in with Tammy, and she's like, yeah, you know, that hindsight 2020 thing, that's like a real thing. And looking back, you know, the thing about the computer.

Speaker 6:
[39:17] How can someone who was literally raised in the forest with no electricity have these skills?

Speaker 5:
[39:23] Well, would slip and say, oh, yeah, I watched that movie, or oh, I love Cinderella or something, right? And I'd be like, well, how do you know that?

Speaker 1:
[39:33] They would like slip up and make pop culture references. I'm like, how many times did you guys watch Encino Man?

Speaker 2:
[39:37] Exactly, right, right, right.

Speaker 1:
[39:38] Tom had like designer sunglasses.

Speaker 2:
[39:40] Where did the designer sunglasses come from?

Speaker 1:
[39:42] They also had zero outdoor skills. They would like look at like a log and be like, what is that?

Speaker 2:
[39:47] Like I have the same level of woods skills as Tom.

Speaker 1:
[39:49] So they lied and they're bullshit, and they were bad at this.

Speaker 2:
[39:52] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:52] And episode one into episode two. So the story airs on TV.

Speaker 2:
[39:56] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:56] And like there they are on television, like talking about how they're raised in the woods, but they won't talk about their parents. So everyone knows this is bullshit, but they're just like along for the ride.

Speaker 2:
[40:04] Yeah. So Timothy the journalist gets an email from somebody who says that like, that's my kids. Those are my kids. And like, and Timothy's like, that's great, but like this person could be anybody. So they, Timothy, who should be making reality television, gets Tammy in a car, gives Tammy a phone with the woman claiming to be the boy's mom. Tammy is hysterical because the mom is describing the boys to a T and she's like, oh my God, like these are your kids.

Speaker 1:
[40:31] But she's also, she's happy, she's furious, she's betrayed, she's literally out of the birdcage. Like, how do you think I feel betrayed, bewildered? I mean, she's, because she's like, wait a second, like you're, you have a mom calling me from California. And then when we see this footage of Tammy asking Tom about the scar, like this identifying feature, he's fucking smirking. That smirk is going to stay on his face until the very end. And I want to punch it off of him.

Speaker 2:
[40:53] Because it is like, it is the way that they're going to identify them and be able to prove that it's him. And so that's the other thing. Timothy was like, we're going to confront Tom, but we're going to confront Tom in the car. They do the thing that they tell kids who are coming out to their conservative parents to do, which is get them in the car, get them on the highway and tell them then.

Speaker 1:
[41:09] That's a horrible idea.

Speaker 2:
[41:10] I think so too.

Speaker 1:
[41:12] That's a, who tell, do not do that. Please.

Speaker 2:
[41:16] She's looking right into the camera.

Speaker 1:
[41:17] Really, don't do it. Putting everybody in danger.

Speaker 2:
[41:20] I think the idea is that the parents can't like jump, they can't go away. They're stuck with you in the car for at least the next 10 minutes.

Speaker 1:
[41:26] Do not, that's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard and I just sat through this shit. So, do not, that is an awful idea.

Speaker 2:
[41:34] Yeah, it's funny, that just came back to me as I was saying it and I'm like, I don't know if I did. Maybe it's good for kids who know their parents aren't gonna like it, but aren't gonna drive off a bridge.

Speaker 1:
[41:44] Maybe like a nicer restaurant, like a place where like a library maybe, where if you scream you're an asshole, like some.

Speaker 2:
[41:51] Not behind the wheel.

Speaker 1:
[41:53] Are you kidding me?

Speaker 2:
[41:56] Follow us for more coming out tips from Gillian.

Speaker 1:
[41:58] Do not do that.

Speaker 2:
[41:59] I know. Now that I'm saying it out loud, it does seem like kind of a bad idea, but it also seems like kind of a good idea.

Speaker 1:
[42:05] No, it is a zero percent good idea.

Speaker 2:
[42:07] Bad idea.

Speaker 1:
[42:07] Zero percent good.

Speaker 2:
[42:08] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[42:09] Zero.

Speaker 2:
[42:09] Okay, great.

Speaker 1:
[42:10] Okay, great.

Speaker 2:
[42:11] Moving on. Girl, Gusto is back. Look, this is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses like ours. It's an all-in-one, remote-friendly, and it's incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere.

Speaker 1:
[42:27] Yeah, they have unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises, and that's usually a thing that they try to gouge on.

Speaker 2:
[42:34] I got to tell you, Steve sent me a list of things. Look, because he runs our payroll, he's obsessed with it. He's talking about their dashboard, how perfect it is, how it makes everything quick and easy, and they handle the sneaky, tricky stuff like different compliance or different tax filings that you need to make. He was saying, we've got employees from New York, California, Ohio, and he's saying, no one can know all the different tax codes and forms to file, but Gusto takes care of all of that for you, all the hard stuff.

Speaker 1:
[42:59] Yeah, and you get direct access to certified HR experts to help support you through any tough HR situation, which we all need.

Speaker 2:
[43:06] Yeah, and he just raves and raves about the customer service. He knows some of them by name, they get back to him immediately and they solve all the problems. Gusto, we are obsessed. Love. So, Fam, try Gusto today at gusto.com/tco and get three months free when you run your first payroll.

Speaker 1:
[43:21] That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com/tco.

Speaker 2:
[43:25] One more time, Fam, gusto.com/tco.

Speaker 1:
[43:28] Get into it. Tom Green is actually Kyle Horn and Will is actually Rowan Horn.

Speaker 3:
[43:37] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:37] And they're like, it was all an act.

Speaker 2:
[43:38] Great games, by the way.

Speaker 1:
[43:39] A survival act and I'm like, I'm sick and tired of the two of you and Tom's fucking smirking.

Speaker 3:
[43:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:46] So Tammy confirms that there was no remorse.

Speaker 5:
[43:49] There was no emotion, just numb. He was just numb to everything. And he didn't seem like it mattered. It was upsetting because he was just like, you're the one who chose to help us. We didn't ask you, you came to us and that is true.

Speaker 1:
[44:06] He's like, hey lady, you came up to us. And it's like, yeah, she did, but you full stop took advantage of her.

Speaker 2:
[44:12] My thing about this is like, I'm just not surprised.

Speaker 1:
[44:15] This is kind of a nothing burger of a story, if I may.

Speaker 2:
[44:17] Yeah, well, what I'm saying is I'm not surprised by the older ones, like lack of remorse. And in a way, I almost have some empathy for him because when we learn the story, I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying I agree, but he thinks he's like in survival mode.

Speaker 1:
[44:32] I have no, the older one, I don't have any sympathy for.

Speaker 2:
[44:35] I have sympathy for them, like I understand, I don't know why, I just like, I wasn't surprised that the older one was like kind of an asshole because he's like the one that's like, like charged with keeping everybody alive in his mind.

Speaker 1:
[44:47] I guess.

Speaker 2:
[44:48] You know, but now we cut to their parents. I was so tricked because it comes up on screen, Mary and Joseph. I thought their names really were Mary and Joseph.

Speaker 1:
[45:00] And then it like does a transition like a fade, their real names are Diana and Roger.

Speaker 2:
[45:03] I wrote down, I wrote this whole thing like, Oh my God, their names really are Mary and Joseph. They weren't la- And then I have to go back.

Speaker 1:
[45:08] Because like, there's always one little nugget of truth, so that could have been a very easy thing to tell the truth about, but they didn't.

Speaker 2:
[45:15] So Timothy and the CBC people, they go to California to meet the family because like it's the biggest story in the world and they want to like get more views out of it.

Speaker 1:
[45:23] His parents, the parents by the way are completely like, I know we can't judge how people act, but they're not acting like they miss their kids. Everything, every like weird, odd, scary thing their kids do, they think is adorable and they're laughing about it. These parents, I hate them.

Speaker 2:
[45:40] Yeah, and I've got a lot of questions about the family dynamics. Like we meet, they have a sister and like the sister's like giving us a tour of the house and the house looks like quote normal or whatever.

Speaker 1:
[45:48] In old footage, she's not here. That's an important, in like 2003 footage, I pray to God she's got no contact.

Speaker 2:
[45:53] Oh God.

Speaker 1:
[45:54] That's my goal.

Speaker 2:
[45:54] Do you have any update on her?

Speaker 1:
[45:56] No, I can't find her anywhere.

Speaker 2:
[45:57] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[45:57] But Tom slash Kyle, the older brother, had mental health issues and his parents are laughing about it on the news. She's like, dare we? Dare we incriminate him?

Speaker 2:
[46:05] I know. Well, because it's really serious.

Speaker 12:
[46:08] Kyle's the sweetest kid ever, but we saw some of his writing that said he thought it was a good idea to blow up credit card buildings and police cars.

Speaker 2:
[46:19] Saying he wants to blow up credit card buildings and police cars.

Speaker 1:
[46:22] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[46:23] And they say that they had him evaluated and that whoever the evaluators were, were like, no, he's fine.

Speaker 1:
[46:28] The cops come over and talk to him for 10 minutes and they're like, lighten up, mom, he's fine.

Speaker 2:
[46:31] Like, was that a different time or was that a different fucking time?

Speaker 1:
[46:34] I also can't believe a goddamn thing these people say because I don't believe them or trust them at all.

Speaker 2:
[46:38] We learned about Kyle and Rowan when they were like in school. Like Kyle was a loner, locked himself in his room, was on his computer all the time. That's why he was so happy to see the computer at the hostel. After high school, he decided he wasn't gonna work.

Speaker 1:
[46:50] Yeah, he didn't want to get a job. He just wanted to be alone in his room, like feeding his conspiracy theories. And according to the dad, he's like, oh, well, he didn't believe in working, but we believe that you have to work hard to get by in this world. And so they kick him out, and that's the last time they saw him. And I'm like, I don't believe that. Like this entire family is self-centered and entitled, and they're all unreliable narrators. However, that smug bullshit is alive and well in Kyle. So I could believe that he's like, I'm just gonna live here.

Speaker 2:
[47:17] But my thing is just like, it starts to make a little bit more sense why the parents weren't like actively looking for at least the older one. Like if that story is true, and they kicked him out on the street, we'll learn in a minute that he always wanted to go to Canada, so he told his parents that's where he was going.

Speaker 1:
[47:32] But that's a lie, that's not true because he's home. And we'll learn in two seconds that that story is a lie anyway.

Speaker 2:
[47:36] So we learned that dad was in insurance in Jester, that mom worked at a movie theater, they say they were very middle class. Rowan was the baby of the family, very sweet. And by the time he came along, they'd thrown all the rules out, they weren't the regular parents, they were the cool parents.

Speaker 1:
[47:49] The mother's like, the other kids had rules, like 10 air quotes a piece and consequences, but she was over being a parent by the time Rowan came along.

Speaker 2:
[47:57] We learned that they listened to Art Bell every night. Now you say your thing and then I've got something.

Speaker 1:
[48:02] These people are conspiracy theorists through and through. Art Bell is like a conspiracy theory radio show.

Speaker 8:
[48:08] Growing up, I heard all sorts of weird conspiracies, you know, things that like, if they're true, that'd be really crazy, you know? Secret society.

Speaker 12:
[48:16] Not to trust the medical profession because the drugs are harming you.

Speaker 8:
[48:20] The dangers of vaccines. Why do we put Florida in the water? It costs a lot of money to do that.

Speaker 12:
[48:25] There's a whole out there fringe group who think the earth is flat.

Speaker 7:
[48:30] I'm pretty much in that camp.

Speaker 1:
[48:32] His dad is a flat earther.

Speaker 2:
[48:34] I mean, their dad is like two camera. I'm a flat earther.

Speaker 1:
[48:36] Can I tell you something about my dad?

Speaker 2:
[48:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[48:39] You know, my dad is like...

Speaker 2:
[48:40] He hates flat earthers.

Speaker 1:
[48:42] Well, so you know, he's like my biggest fan and he's very like interested in what I do and like the show and like what we're covering and the cases and whatever. So I'm very lucky with that. Like he's super supportive about it. So there have been times where I'm like, dad, you got to hear about the story. You got to watch this thing. So I've told this on the show before, but like he I tried to get him to watch the Flat Earth documentary because I thought he would like, we would just like tease. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[49:04] How to chuckle about it.

Speaker 1:
[49:05] 20 minutes in he was like, I love you, but I can't do this. Like it just, he was beside himself. There's another thing now that's on par with the flat earthers because I was talking about this, fruitarianism. He's just like, it's so unhealthy. So now like he just can't. But I was like, dad, but there are these people and the dad's a flat earther and he was like, I can't. And I'm like, no, but then there's this thing fruitarianism. He was like, you made that up. I was like, I did not. So I was like teaching him about it. But between the flat, my dad could never stomach this document.

Speaker 2:
[49:33] I want to make a document about your dad called the fruitarian and the flat earther.

Speaker 1:
[49:36] Like he can't.

Speaker 2:
[49:37] I know.

Speaker 1:
[49:37] He just can't do it.

Speaker 2:
[49:38] The thing about the, I don't know about the fruitarianism thing, but like the flat earther thing, the reason it's so infuriating is because it's just like, you just can't argue with these people.

Speaker 1:
[49:46] Same with fruitarianism.

Speaker 2:
[49:48] Talking to them.

Speaker 1:
[49:49] Right, right.

Speaker 2:
[49:49] Like you're never going to get through to them. Like it just feels like they're living in a separate reality.

Speaker 1:
[49:54] Like willfully.

Speaker 2:
[49:55] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:55] And I, that bothers me.

Speaker 2:
[49:56] And almost like they don't even believe it. They just want to have to fight.

Speaker 1:
[49:59] A hundred percent. And that's what bothers me. I think it's the smugness.

Speaker 2:
[50:02] Yes, yes.

Speaker 1:
[50:03] So, okay. Remember that scar on Will's stomach from before? That's how the mom could accurately ID him. We get the story of how that happened.

Speaker 2:
[50:09] It's horrible.

Speaker 1:
[50:10] Rowan, Will Rowan.

Speaker 2:
[50:11] I know. There's so many names now.

Speaker 1:
[50:13] I know. He's nine years old. It's Thanksgiving Day. He's riding his bike outside and he falls off it and the handlebar like goes into his gut. It sounds extremely painful.

Speaker 2:
[50:22] And like could happen to any kid.

Speaker 1:
[50:24] Any kid at any moment at any time.

Speaker 2:
[50:25] It's a tragic freak accident.

Speaker 1:
[50:27] So he says he hobbles back home, cuts to the mom who tells us, we're trying to do Thanksgiving and he's just laying there on the floor.

Speaker 2:
[50:34] I know.

Speaker 1:
[50:34] Groaning in pain. She begrudgingly calls 911 and I'm like, oh, interesting. So you're calling 911 for an ambulance to the house of the people who think the entire medical profession is trying to kill you.

Speaker 2:
[50:44] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[50:45] So that also pisses me the fuck off.

Speaker 2:
[50:47] Oh, don't even get me started. Like if you're not going to take the measles vaccine, then when you get measles, we don't help you.

Speaker 1:
[50:51] That's what I'm saying. So you're going to poison your kids minds with this conspiracy.

Speaker 2:
[50:54] And I'm not talking about the kids that get denied the vaccines. I'm talking about the willful adults who aren't taking it.

Speaker 1:
[50:59] But who are you calling when you need help? Right.

Speaker 2:
[51:01] Of course.

Speaker 3:
[51:01] So Ghostbusters.

Speaker 1:
[51:03] Right. But no, no, no, no. So nine-year-old Will has to have emergency surgery. Now he's more terrified than usual, as anybody would be. Any nine-year-old.

Speaker 2:
[51:12] Any little kid would be, yes.

Speaker 1:
[51:13] But because of thanks to his parents.

Speaker 2:
[51:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:15] So they have to remove Will's spleen. And he's told if you had waited any longer, you would have died. So you're welcome and maybe stop talking shit about us. Aren't you so glad we showed up on time?

Speaker 2:
[51:24] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[51:24] So the mom tells us, I really want to slow down on this. The mom says that they were told.

Speaker 12:
[51:29] We were told that without a spleen, you're at heavy risk of catching pneumonia and dying.

Speaker 8:
[51:36] You need to take vaccines and these different shots like for the rest of your life.

Speaker 12:
[51:40] We believe that there's mercury in them and then the autism rates are going way up.

Speaker 8:
[51:45] And I just opted out of that.

Speaker 1:
[51:48] So they opted out of the recommended treatment. I need to stop on this for a second. Because first of all, this shows how they're unreliable now. Because nobody told her that. Because that's not the case.

Speaker 2:
[52:00] Oh really?

Speaker 1:
[52:01] No, you are not at heavy risk of catching pneumonia and dying without a spleen. The spleen is what helps the body fight infection. So obviously, if you don't have it, there are precautions you need to take.

Speaker 2:
[52:09] Yeah, you're immunocompromised. That's a true thing.

Speaker 1:
[52:12] You can absolutely live without it. I know people who do. I've spoken to them about this very thing. Like you can live a normal, long, healthy life, but you have to be aware, which is good advice in the world.

Speaker 2:
[52:23] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[52:24] But you do need to take your vaccines. You have to 100% stay on top of it. If something happens, you have to be like, by the way, I don't have my spleen. Yeah. But like, you know.

Speaker 2:
[52:32] Raise your hand if you're spleenless.

Speaker 1:
[52:33] Yeah, and you are 100% at more of a risk of infection than those of us with spleens. I totally get that. But it is not a death sentence. What is a death sentence is not taking the vaccines and the antibiotics that you need. So for her to say, like, the medical profession is trying to kill you, and then like you're bringing him to the emergency room as he's bleeding out on the fucking living room floor.

Speaker 2:
[52:54] No, it's like, this is exactly why these kids ended up exactly how they are. Because this is when Rowan becomes obsessed with being healthy.

Speaker 1:
[53:02] Right.

Speaker 8:
[53:02] When you have an organ removed from you, you feel like you're not ever fully safe. Just made me start thinking a lot more about death and how close I had come to it. And I think that's when I really started to just be hyper obsessed with health.

Speaker 2:
[53:21] Because he knows his immuno-compromise. All he can think about is like eating food to like take care of himself, which is resulting in him losing weight. And the mother is like standing next to him being like, isn't he cute?

Speaker 1:
[53:32] And she's saying it today. Like today she's like, well, we were told he was gonna die. Girl, no. So now I don't believe anything she says. And like, because this whole ordeal traumatized him, the accident being in pain, writhing on the floor while the mother steps over him carrying her probably unseasoned mac and cheese. Like, what are like, fuck you.

Speaker 2:
[53:50] But like she's fully supporting his choices in his food intake, which is resulting in this like 16 year old getting down to 114 pounds.

Speaker 1:
[54:00] I'm just hearing like a lot of neglect here. Like, forcing the conspiracies on him. He's so malnourished. He's so underweight. Like, I'm just hearing.

Speaker 2:
[54:08] I know. And it's like, how did this happen?

Speaker 1:
[54:10] I know.

Speaker 2:
[54:11] How did like both parents and everybody else in the family be like, this is all makes sense to us? Because we get no backstory on how they met, what their backstory is.

Speaker 1:
[54:20] They're more susceptible to this. I think when you're a conspiracy theorist like this, you're just more willing to be like, yep, cool. And so they want to be the cool parents. And I don't think they're really interested in parenting.

Speaker 2:
[54:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:29] And so when Will is 12 years old, the internet happens. And so now he finds a place to like exacerbate all of these fears.

Speaker 2:
[54:36] Or to like prove them correct.

Speaker 1:
[54:37] And he's like surviving on fruit and misinformation, which will kill anybody.

Speaker 2:
[54:42] Totally.

Speaker 1:
[54:43] And so like then he's now he's fighting with his parents. He's lying about his weight. He's hiding his weight. And he's like confirmation biasing all over the place.

Speaker 2:
[54:50] Well, and then they take him to the doctor and the doctor wants to institutionalize him. The parents won't allow it. So they force him to do like regular weigh-ins.

Speaker 12:
[54:57] But when I said, time to get on the scale, he says, just a minute, mom. And he would go to his room and put on a bulky outfit and hide ankle weights under his clothes.

Speaker 2:
[55:06] And they're telling the story like now, like as though it's adorable.

Speaker 1:
[55:10] It is not adorable. And the mom's like, we were so frustrated. I'm like, why? You fostered this.

Speaker 2:
[55:15] You allowed it to happen. And then you let him put on weights to get on the scale.

Speaker 1:
[55:18] Right. And then I'm like, and then she's like, well, when we took him to the doctor, I'm like, so when do we believe in doctors? I just want to be clear.

Speaker 2:
[55:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:24] Like, I'm just unsure on what you're, because you're like scared they're going to take him away.

Speaker 2:
[55:28] Well, but so this is what happens. Like after all of this, he's not getting any weight. So CPS shows up to take him.

Speaker 1:
[55:34] The doctors call CPS because at this point he's like 16 years old. This has been going on for four years and the parents aren't doing anything to help him.

Speaker 2:
[55:41] And like Kyle, who may or may not be living at home at this point, is there. Rowan is in the kitchen, like trying to literally trying to make himself a fruit salad. CPS is at the door. And Rowan, at like 16 years old, thinks it's life or death. He thinks if CPS takes him, they're going to force feed him. They're going to make him take the vaccines. Life or death, according to the reenactment, he runs out the back door without any shoes on and disappears into the woods where he's living in a tent in the backyard and like knocking on his brother's window at night to bring him out fruit into the woods.

Speaker 1:
[56:13] A hundred feet away. He's in a tent, a hundred feet away.

Speaker 2:
[56:16] But the parents are like, we've been searching high and low, night and day for him. No, no, no.

Speaker 1:
[56:19] And so, but suddenly the older brother's like, you know what? Like to his parents, he's like, hey, mom.

Speaker 8:
[56:24] I had already been telling my parents that I was going to go to Canada, like before any of this happened. So when I did decide, oh, I'm going to Canada, it didn't seem all that suspicious to people.

Speaker 12:
[56:35] He had always talked about how it might be fun to go to Canada. That's why we weren't immediately suspicious.

Speaker 1:
[56:41] We didn't think this was suspicious because he always talked about going to Canada. With my full chest, you guys are fucking idiots, the parents, or you think we are. Because the timeline doesn't make sense here.

Speaker 2:
[56:49] In the sense that it lines up, we're like, so this is when the older one goes to Canada. The younger one is fully missing, by the way. And I don't know if there were police reports were filed. I don't know what. They don't get into that at all. But the older one just skips town. The younger one is just missing. The parents aren't recounting this time in their lives as though it was the darkest, saddest time in their life because their 16-year-old is missing. But this is how Will and Kyle end up in Canada.

Speaker 1:
[57:17] Well, let me ask you a question. Here's what doesn't make sense to me. How does a child go missing when CPS is there to investigate what's happening with that child? Why was it like, how is that possible? And then did CPS just say, oh, what a shame. Don't they want eyes on the kid? And then he disappears while they're there and his parents nor CPS notice that he's gone?

Speaker 2:
[57:36] Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1:
[57:36] The parents knew. In my humble opinion, the parents knew or they turned a blind eye or they let it happen so that Will Rowan didn't have to take any vaccines or get medicine. They let him run out. There's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and believe that they, oh my god, while CPS is in the house, the kid goes missing and nobody talks about it again.

Speaker 2:
[57:58] No, that was very, very implausible. And like, because these were my questions too, was like, were you out looking for him night and day? They say they were. Like the mom was like, we were looking in ditches and we were looking in construction sites.

Speaker 1:
[58:08] She's like, we were looking for avocado peels.

Speaker 2:
[58:10] Fuck off. And she's like got missing persons flyer, but it's a reenactment. It's not like from the time. Yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense. The idea that the parents, the parents either knew or sort of like were willfully ignorant.

Speaker 1:
[58:22] I agree.

Speaker 2:
[58:23] Because there's also no contact between the older son and the parents. It's not like, like if Daisy's like, dad, I'm moving to Canada. Great. Call me when you get there. And then every day thereafter.

Speaker 1:
[58:32] But also the day after her sister goes missing, she's like, I'm going to go to Canada. Can I borrow 500 bucks?

Speaker 2:
[58:39] I know.

Speaker 1:
[58:40] And you're going to sit here with a straight face mom. Actually, she has a fucking smirk on too.

Speaker 2:
[58:44] But then I guess my question is, why would the parents have called the CBC and been like, those are my kids?

Speaker 1:
[58:48] Because I think it did get a little too far.

Speaker 2:
[58:50] It got too big.

Speaker 1:
[58:50] And there's probably some money in it. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[58:52] But also, if they didn't call, somebody else would have. Like, hey, Carol, there are your kids on the TV.

Speaker 1:
[58:56] Right. They had to get ahead of it a little bit, I guess. So the brothers just walk slash hitchhike to the border and walk into Canada. Nobody asks them anything. No one wants their ID.

Speaker 2:
[59:06] They're telling of it. They like walked across the highway into Canada.

Speaker 1:
[59:10] And no one rebuts that. Like, no, we have the Mounties here. Like, no one says that's not what happened. I think that's what happened.

Speaker 2:
[59:19] Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. And like, this is where they say, like, see, so much of our story was true because this is when they start living in the woods. But they're once again, they're living 15 feet behind the country store. They're not living in the wilderness.

Speaker 1:
[59:31] No one in this family knows what the truth actually is. And it pisses me off. Yeah. Don't like drop the truth to me.

Speaker 2:
[59:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[59:39] How round is the earth again? Oh, you think it's flat bullshit.

Speaker 2:
[59:41] I do think, though, the thing to remember, at least in my opinion, is that like, these kids are in a mental health crisis. Like, they're not like-

Speaker 1:
[59:47] I think Rowan is for sure, yes.

Speaker 2:
[59:48] They're not thinking rationally and like, making like, rational decisions. Like, I think these kids are like, I don't want to say they're suffering, but like, there's more going on than like, just like two kids ran away.

Speaker 1:
[59:59] I agree with that more so with Rowan.

Speaker 2:
[60:01] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:01] So like, we see them reunited. Like, the parents fly to Canada to reunite with their sons and this new show is filming it, which is a choice.

Speaker 2:
[60:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:10] But they're like, not at all concerned, really.

Speaker 2:
[60:12] And they're not even really like, the parents are like, How are you?

Speaker 12:
[60:16] So good to see you.

Speaker 8:
[60:18] Why did you stop calling us in December? Just, I don't know. So just a phone call would have helped, you know.

Speaker 2:
[60:28] Hey guys, why did you stop calling us? Like, Daisy's missing for a year and I'm reunited with her in a parking lot. Like, are you kidding? I'm hysterical on the ground.

Speaker 1:
[60:36] Did you ever report your kid missing?

Speaker 2:
[60:37] Right. But that's my question.

Speaker 1:
[60:40] Like, your two sons left around the same time? How weird is that? And at one point, the mom even says there was a part of her that didn't want them to be found.

Speaker 2:
[60:47] Why didn't I understand that at all?

Speaker 1:
[60:49] She says, well, if Tom, you know, Kyle is taking care of him in Canada, maybe that's a good solution. I'm like, you knew.

Speaker 2:
[60:55] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:55] Like you absolutely knew. They at least knew they were together.

Speaker 2:
[60:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:59] She slipped here. If Tom, if Kyle is taking care of him in Canada, maybe that's a good solution. So she knew they were together.

Speaker 2:
[61:05] Yeah. They also just strike me as very hands off. You know, like suddenly, like out of sight, out of mind, it's not their problem anymore. So whether or not they knew specifically where they were or what they were doing, it seems like they just weren't really thinking about it at all.

Speaker 1:
[61:17] And I think they were kind of like over being parents. I don't think they really, that's what I mean when I say neglect.

Speaker 2:
[61:22] Just like, I know I talk about this a lot, but like coming from a household where there was a member of a family who was having a severe mental health crisis for like a lot of years, I do understand the idea of, maybe what she means by that is like, we couldn't help him here. So if Kyle is helping him there, maybe that's a better solution.

Speaker 1:
[61:40] They chose not to help him. I believe they could have helped him. They just chose to not.

Speaker 2:
[61:46] Yeah, and I'm not saying their beliefs are right, but in their mind, it's like, well, the only help available to them was like, getting him into a hospital that was gonna like force him to do all the things they don't believe. I think that that's what they should have done. But like, I can see in their warped way of thinking, like, well, we can't make him do that. So at least if he's there, he's somebody else's problem and he's not dead yet.

Speaker 1:
[62:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[62:07] You know?

Speaker 1:
[62:07] It's interesting that they went to Canada.

Speaker 2:
[62:09] Right.

Speaker 1:
[62:10] Specifically Canada.

Speaker 2:
[62:11] Yeah, it's cause they knew they were really nice and they'd give them money for food, you know?

Speaker 1:
[62:14] And their healthcare is pretty fucking great.

Speaker 2:
[62:15] Truly.

Speaker 1:
[62:16] But the point is also Will is dying. Like, and he's in the middle of a severe years long mental health crisis that's not being addressed and it's being enabled. And if my mom, if my parents, they finally found me and I looked like Will looked, they would say, oh my god, like they, they're, I can picture their fate. They would be beside themselves and saying, what happened to you? What do you need? And they're like, hey kids.

Speaker 2:
[62:39] Yeah, they have a whole different kind of parents. Right.

Speaker 1:
[62:42] Cause we're also hearing all of this from these people and like, I just don't trust their perception of reality.

Speaker 2:
[62:48] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[62:48] Right? So it's like, okay.

Speaker 2:
[62:50] Right. Because I think what we're not fully saying is that it's sort of like the mother would rather let Rowan do what he thinks he needs to do for his body and have that result in him die, then do the traditional mainstream thing that we know would save him.

Speaker 1:
[63:04] Sure. And it's-

Speaker 2:
[63:05] And I'm not saying that, all I'm saying is I think that's what she's thinking.

Speaker 1:
[63:08] Right. And at some point though, your beliefs don't matter.

Speaker 2:
[63:13] 100%.

Speaker 1:
[63:14] If it's going against what science says.

Speaker 2:
[63:16] Or if it's going, like if you're dealing with a child, you know what I mean? You're going to die based on the way that you're parenting them.

Speaker 1:
[63:22] The doctors eventually had to call CPS on you because you're actively- I'm sure they presented them with a lot of options.

Speaker 2:
[63:28] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[63:29] And I'm not defending the health care system in this country. I'm just saying like at some point, you have to look at your kid and say you're wasting- you're dying. And I can't let you die because I love you.

Speaker 2:
[63:36] But yeah, I think just what I'm like realizing in real time is the mom was maybe okay with him dying. As long as he was able to like treat himself on his own terms.

Speaker 1:
[63:45] Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2:
[63:45] Which is crazy, which is absolutely insane. But like I almost can come to no other conclusion.

Speaker 1:
[63:51] Yes, because I think that there's so much that she's not saying.

Speaker 2:
[63:54] Yeah, the second she allowed him to like put weights on his legs and get on the scale.

Speaker 1:
[63:58] To like lie to the doctors.

Speaker 2:
[64:00] She's saying, I'm gonna let you treat yourself, you know.

Speaker 1:
[64:04] Well now Rowan is diagnosed with orthorexia, which is basically an obsession with what the person believes is healthy eating, because this is not healthy eating.

Speaker 2:
[64:13] And then we learned that like in immigration, once they know who these kids are, an immigration warrant is issued, they're deported and quote, they went as quickly as they came.

Speaker 1:
[64:22] Well, Will is in the hospital now and he's being treated for this finally. Yeah. And he gains about like 30 pounds in the time he's there. And while he's in the middle of treatment, finally getting help, yeah, Canadian police arrest him.

Speaker 2:
[64:33] And we like learn Henry from the RCMP is like, we arranged a private air ambulance to transport Will back. And like this kid just like gets on the plane.

Speaker 6:
[64:44] Like he never in as much as even turned back or gave away or said, thank Tammy for what she did. Or I appreciate what the hospital did for me, anything like that. He just got on the plane, never looked back.

Speaker 2:
[64:56] Doesn't turn around and say thank you. Doesn't say thank you to Tammy.

Speaker 1:
[64:59] Not a word of gratitude from either of them to anybody.

Speaker 2:
[65:03] I know.

Speaker 1:
[65:04] Which is like-

Speaker 2:
[65:04] These are not well people.

Speaker 1:
[65:06] But you still like not well means you're an asshole too. Like since when?

Speaker 2:
[65:11] I just feel like I'm not defending the behavior. It's just the only way I can explain it. You know what I mean? Like he just like these are- Yeah. It just- It makes no sense to me. And I understand what Henry is saying. Like it's crazy behavior.

Speaker 1:
[65:24] It's crazy. And so now it's 2016, 12 years after this fiasco in Canada, which is really the only way to call- the only word to describe it. Things are like not great for Rowan.

Speaker 2:
[65:34] Well, the family has to declare bankruptcy because his medical bills are between 50 and $60,000. The acid from the fruit dissolved his teeth.

Speaker 1:
[65:42] He's got holes in his teeth from the sugar and the acid. He never went back to high school. He never furthered his education in any way. No.

Speaker 2:
[65:48] He's like obsessed with the eternal life. He's like an eternal lifer.

Speaker 1:
[65:51] Okay. He's a self-proclaimed philosopher. And his whole thing is like living forever. And death is brainwashing. Like we don't have to die. It's totally preventable.

Speaker 12:
[66:02] He's really obsessed with not dying. And so he spends his whole life making videos about it. Yeah. That camera is the best investment I ever made. And the mic and all of that.

Speaker 8:
[66:16] And the best investment you guys ever made, they bought it for me.

Speaker 1:
[66:20] Well, that you ever made, Mommy, because the parents are like, he's enabled. He's not getting help.

Speaker 2:
[66:25] The mom is literally here to say, I'm really proud of Rowan for doing something he's really passionate about.

Speaker 8:
[66:30] No.

Speaker 2:
[66:30] I know.

Speaker 1:
[66:30] No, he needs help. And I was on his Instagram today. And some of the things he says that will make you live forever include smoking. Because apparently tobacco and nicotine are good for you. Urine, like soaking your feet in urine. He's also very dangerously, like psychotically stalking women, but using AI videos of them like canoodling and kissing. And saying, like, I want you to marry me, or someday you'll realize that we actually are married. Like, he is severely not okay.

Speaker 2:
[67:00] We're gonna talk about this in the next episode we're doing today, about, like, how there's communities of online... The problem with it is that he found community online. So everything that he thinks, all of this is being reinforced in that echo chamber.

Speaker 1:
[67:11] But not really, because he has, like, 20 Instagram followers, he has 200, you know... It's not like he has this thriving echo chamber, like...

Speaker 2:
[67:19] But you don't need a thriving, you just need one, you need two. Like, we see these people that are like, I don't want to watch my dog die, let alone myself die.

Speaker 1:
[67:27] Right.

Speaker 2:
[67:27] All you need is that small group of three people being like, me too, bro.

Speaker 1:
[67:30] Well, I don't know where he's finding it, because he's got, like, no interaction. All the comments are like, bro, you're fucking crazy.

Speaker 2:
[67:37] Well, and we see him at one point, he has a moment of humanity where he's, like, sobbing, talking about how he doesn't have any connections and he needs more connection in life.

Speaker 1:
[67:44] And, you know, when you boil it down, there's a lot of it that's very sad because it's all based in fear. Like, he is terrified of dying, he's terrified of living, he's incredibly lonely.

Speaker 2:
[67:55] It's fear and indoctrination.

Speaker 1:
[67:56] And his parents did it. And at one point he meets up with his brother at Flat Earth Pizza.

Speaker 2:
[68:01] I know.

Speaker 1:
[68:01] And we leave the pizza out of it.

Speaker 2:
[68:03] And it's crazy too because also, like, the other thing we haven't really mentioned at all is that Kyle, the older brother, has a complete savior complex.

Speaker 1:
[68:10] And he's a dick though.

Speaker 2:
[68:11] Because he's like, we see them in the end, driving away in this car that I don't even know how it's running. Like, the front end of the car has been smashed in.

Speaker 8:
[68:19] And it like ends with Kyle being like, I have to take care of him almost like a parent, right? But I was never bothered by Rowan looking up to me or trusting me. And I definitely won't allow anything to happen to him.

Speaker 2:
[68:36] I will take care of my brother. He's like my son. I will never let anything bad happen to him. And I'm like, that is not the loving statement you think it is. No. That is a total savior complex that will result in him dying.

Speaker 1:
[68:46] But it ends, he's like still being a smug asshole. He has no accountability for enabling this. No remorse for lying. He doesn't give a shit about what he did to Tami in that whole town. And he says, he goes, it's not my job to tell the truth with that goddamn smirk. And I'm like, who are you?

Speaker 2:
[68:59] I love that Timothy from the CBC is back laughing. He's like, yes, it is. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1:
[69:05] When you're actively scamming people and lying. And also, like, don't you lecture me on what the truth is, buddy.

Speaker 2:
[69:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[69:11] I know what the fucking earth is and it's not flat. And how dare you bring pizza into this?

Speaker 2:
[69:18] You know what it reminds me of? Tinker hell.

Speaker 1:
[69:20] Do you know? I could have sworn you have known that since it happened.

Speaker 2:
[69:24] No, but I feel like I learned something really valuable.

Speaker 1:
[69:26] I'm shocked you don't know the person who coined or started calling her that.

Speaker 2:
[69:29] Spielberg.

Speaker 1:
[69:30] My God.

Speaker 2:
[69:36] Oh, my God, girl. We did Wild Boys Strangers in Town.

Speaker 1:
[69:39] Sure did.

Speaker 2:
[69:40] Holy Majole.

Speaker 1:
[69:41] Oh, fuck those parents, man.

Speaker 2:
[69:42] Don't forget, join the Facebook group. Check out our Discord. There are links to both in our show notes.

Speaker 1:
[69:47] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[69:47] Girl, what do we do next?

Speaker 1:
[69:48] The skincare queen and the hitman. This is another of The Curious Case of, season two.

Speaker 2:
[69:52] The skincare queen and the hitman.

Speaker 1:
[69:54] It is crazy.

Speaker 2:
[69:55] Okay, I can't wait.

Speaker 1:
[69:55] It is crazy. Lies on lies.

Speaker 2:
[69:57] Lies on lies?

Speaker 1:
[69:58] Lies on lies.

Speaker 2:
[69:59] Do you get good skin care routine recommendations? You know what?

Speaker 13:
[70:02] No.

Speaker 2:
[70:02] Really?

Speaker 1:
[70:04] We don't. Everyone's skin looks awful.

Speaker 13:
[70:07] Oh, no.

Speaker 1:
[70:07] And I don't really understand what the deal is, but we'll dive into it when we dive into it.

Speaker 2:
[70:11] All right. So stay tuned for the trailer for That Fam, and we love you.

Speaker 1:
[70:14] All right, we love you.

Speaker 2:
[70:15] I keep looking into this camera by accident.

Speaker 1:
[70:17] I am too.

Speaker 2:
[70:18] It's like a reality show. You're not supposed to look into the camera.

Speaker 6:
[70:20] Bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo.

Speaker 2:
[70:22] Even I know what that means. All right, bye.

Speaker 10:
[70:25] You had a Hollywood facialist who was accused of hiring a hit man to murder her business competitor.

Speaker 9:
[70:34] She was being accused of plotting murder, which I still find it hard to believe. That's not the Don I know. And they were painting her as this horrible, vindictive, evil, unkind person.

Speaker 13:
[70:52] And they released that mug shot, which was a very rough mug shot for a beauty guru.

Speaker 10:
[70:59] I couldn't believe my friend, who was this high-end skincare guru, would be in prison. It just seemed so nuts. But the evidence looked bad.