transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hi, Kari.

Speaker 2:
[00:01] Sonya, I've been thinking that we don't do enough bean episodes. I'm really wanting to talk more about beans.

Speaker 1:
[00:07] Yeah, especially for how much we love beans, which is why it was so fun to have Sarah talk to us about chickpeas, arguably one of our absolute favorite legumes.

Speaker 2:
[00:17] What's great about a chickpea is that it tastes just as good coming from a can or a vacuum pack than it is if you cook it homemade, from dry. It's really incredibly forgiving and absorbs a lot of great flavors. I don't know if I'm willing to say it's my favorite, but it really might be my favorite.

Speaker 1:
[00:34] What I love about this conversation is Sarah really shows us how versatile chickpeas are in the kitchen. She's talking about sheet pan meals, different kinds of ways to make dinner in 15 minutes or less. You won't believe this viral recipe that she created. She also has ways that she uses chickpeas in desserts that blew my mind. Sarah is just really inspiring. She's a food scientist, a nutritionist, and she has been creating recipe content on liveeatlearn.com, her website, for over a decade, sharing vegetarian and plant-forward recipes. Stay tuned to hear all about chickpeas with Sarah Bond. Welcome to Food Friends, a podcast inspiring home cooks to try new dishes in the kitchen by sharing trusted recipes, tips, and friendship. Hi, I'm Sonya.

Speaker 2:
[01:24] And I'm Kari. We met in Los Angeles over 15 years ago as personal chefs and haven't stopped talking about food since. We're so glad you're here.

Speaker 1:
[01:35] Hi, Kari. Hi, Sarah.

Speaker 2:
[01:37] Hi.

Speaker 1:
[01:39] Sarah, we're so happy to have you on the show. You are a nutritionist and a food scientist and the creator of liveeatlearn.com, which is an amazing resource of vegetarian recipes. There's also your Instagram feed. You are providing so many ideas for people who want to incorporate more vegetables, more plant-based, and more vegetarian meals into their life. So we'd love to hear how you got started as a recipe developer and content creator.

Speaker 3:
[02:07] Yeah. So my journey started about 10 years ago. I had just graduated from college. I studied human nutrition. And when I graduated, I realized that I knew everything about healthy food and what it meant to eat healthy, but I actually had no idea how to cook food that was tasty. And so I started the site sort of as like a traditional blog, like a diary style blog, where I was documenting my process of learning how to cook healthy food that tasted good. That was 10 years ago, and I have since learned how to cook food. And I guess seven years ago now, I went on to do my masters in a type of food science called sensory science, which is all about how you can manipulate different aspects of food to do different things to your senses. And so a lot of my friends who I studied with now work in the food industry in their food science departments, but I use everything I learned to create recipes that people want to eat, specifically vegetarian recipes. So yeah, now I'm here and I run the site full time, and I just create vegetarian recipe for people to help them eat more plants.

Speaker 2:
[03:17] Sarah, I just want to jump right into your Chickpea Fridays. Sonya and I are huge fans of beans. We both really love chickpeas. We always have them in our pantry. Why did you choose chickpeas as your bean of choice that you develop recipes for and release every Friday?

Speaker 3:
[03:34] Yeah. So when I started the site, I actually was doing like featured ingredient weeks, and now sort of my way of learning how to cook, I would go to the grocery store and pick a random ingredient, and then I would figure out how to turn that into a few different recipes. And so for the past 10 years, that's been my style, and slowly, I realized that I pretty much covered the basis of every ingredient. So now I'm just kind of changing my strategy of how I go about cooking. And one ingredient that my audience has really loved and that I really love cooking is chickpeas. And so that chickpea Friday is just sort of a tribute to the old way of how I develop recipes while also finding new ways to use that can of chickpeas that everyone has in their pantry.

Speaker 1:
[04:19] Certainly, just to be clear to our audience, you do more than just chickpea recipes, but it's actually really fun to explore one ingredient that thoroughly and that dynamically. Like I really look forward to those coming out in addition to all your other recipes that come out. And I think we all do have chickpeas in our pantry. Most people do. Me and Kari certainly do. And we love dried beans too, but chickpeas are one of the things I always keep cans of on hand in the bean family. I'm wondering if you have any hard takes on brands or sourcing your chickpeas or things you love, or if you just feel like they're all really good and you can't go wrong.

Speaker 3:
[04:56] Yeah, that's one of those ingredients that I don't have strong opinions on the brand. I usually just reach for the store-bought brand. And then I also do love dried beans, but just having a can of chickpeas at dinner time takes away so much of the stress because I don't have to drink 12 hours prior what I'm going to make for dinner. It's just the can is there. I always had at least five of them because every time I go to the grocery store I feel like I buy a can just in case.

Speaker 2:
[05:21] What would you say is your quickest chickpea recipe? Like the easiest, quickest chickpea recipe you have?

Speaker 3:
[05:29] I'm thinking in terms of dinner, the quickest one is the one that went the most viral. I published this last year and it's my marry me chickpeas. This recipe is done in like 15 minutes and it packs in so much flavor and so little time. You basically make a base of some butter, garlic, and some spices. I like to do smoked paprika, sun-dried tomatoes, salt and pepper. You just get all that going, get all the spices blooming in the butter, and then you add in your chickpeas and some vegetable broth, and just let that simmer for like five minutes just to heat up the chickpeas. And then you sir in some cream, parmesan and basil, and that's it. The whole thing is ready in like 15 minutes, and I serve it with everything. So I'll serve it with like rice or pasta or veggies. But yeah, that one has gone insanely viral, I think just because people want easy and they want flavor and that's one of my favorites right now.

Speaker 1:
[06:27] Yeah, the richness of the cream and then you get that easy light protein from the chickpeas with all those kind of herbaceous and sweet and savory flavors. The marry me chicken recipe that I understand you're playing on that idea. We've talked about, I think in our chicken episode, and we've also heard other recipe developers play around with that idea. I love that this is a fully vegetarian option for people and it's so fast and so yummy and the visuals which we'll link to in our show notes, and you just want to eat this. It's like a natural progression for chickpeas to put them in something saucy and serve them over a starch or veggies. I'm wondering if you have a very surprising use of chickpeas in your arsenal.

Speaker 3:
[07:13] I've done dessert chickpeas before, so I can definitely speak to that, but one that I recently came up with that I really like is chickpea eggs. It's playing on eggs in a hole where you're cooking eggs in a hole of bread, but with chickpeas. You're taking chickpeas and you're cooking them on a pan, just with some oil or butter and some spices, just until they get a little bit crispy. Then you put them into circles and form a little hole inside of it, and then just crack the egg into it. The egg whites spread over the chickpeas and hold the whole thing together. It's just such an easy way of bringing chickpeas into morning. Because I feel like I use them for dinner all the time, but they deserve to be enjoyed all day, I think. So that one's been a fun little protein breakfast.

Speaker 2:
[08:00] I saw that recipe, and I want to just highlight a really brilliant tip that you offered people, which is after the chickpeas have been crisp, and you sort of move them around and create a hole for the eggs, you say to put some oil, like the oil from the sun-dried tomatoes, is that what it is? And it like adds more flavor to the dish.

Speaker 3:
[08:18] Yeah, especially if you're not working with non-stick. You already have the oil out. I love to minimize ingredients. So if you already have the jar out, just using that instead, just infuses so much more flavor. And I feel like that oil is never getting used anyways.

Speaker 1:
[08:32] You put the oil into the center before you crack the egg into it.

Speaker 3:
[08:36] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:37] Oh, that's so smart.

Speaker 2:
[08:38] It's so smart. And I hate to waste food. And so I love that suggestion. You're just sort of scooping a little bit of that oil in, and it adds so much more flavor. I would eat those chickpeas for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. I'm curious, is there one chickpea recipe that you go to like time and time again? Did you pick a favorite child?

Speaker 3:
[08:55] I think I would go back to my, it's like the first recipe that went viral back in 2015, when things could go viral on Pinterest, and that was my roasted chickpea gyros. So I created that one because at that time, I didn't know how to cook still. And the only recipe I knew by heart was tatsuki. And so I was looking for a recipe that I could put my tatsuki on. And so I just roasted up some chickpeas. And for that one, I use whatever spices I'm feeling that day. So I think I use a lot of like hot, like heat. But that one, so I'll do like cayenne and a lot of black pepper, some smoked paprika. And I'll roast that till crispy. And then the tatsuki sort of holds the chickpeas onto the pita. And then you just do your usual toppings like lettuce and red onion and tomato. That one is nice because it's fun. You can have bowls sort of all over the table so everyone can make their own. That's just like a fun, easy dinner that feels sort of special while being super easy.

Speaker 1:
[09:51] Yeah, you're touching on two things that Kari and I talk about a lot and that are really important to us as home cooks. One, you have easy go-to recipes, but that are modifiable for whoever's at your table. So even if that's just your family, like Kari has a child and a husband and they have different preferences, and she and James might like things spicier than Mac would like, and my husband is notoriously very particular. And so, but then there's also this element of the fun of having people customize a meal. Like I just love the idea of having the center of your meal be these simple spiced crispy chickpeas. But then you could have this whole world of toppings and flatbread and sauces. You could do tzatziki. I imagine hummus or tahini would be delicious here as well, or baba ganoush. You could really make it sort of a Mediterranean or Middle Eastern feast, couldn't you?

Speaker 3:
[10:41] Yeah. And that's how I'm seeing a lot of people when they tag me on social. That's how they're serving this work. And it just feels so much more special because it's an experience versus just being served something on a plate. I think people really like to have that interactive feel to dinner, especially when you're serving guests.

Speaker 1:
[10:57] And especially if it's vegetarian and maybe they're not used to having a vegetarian meal. It's such a great gateway because it's almost like you don't even notice anything's missing because there's so much abundance on the table. To switch gears back to the kinds of recipes Kari and I are always on the hunt for, we're big fans. It's no secret. I love a sheet pan meal and I love to throw chickpeas onto sheet pans. I think it's just such an easy thing to roast. And it can either get crispy or it can just be another roasted element among other vegetables. I'm wondering if you have any sheet pan dinner recipes that your audience and you just keep coming back to.

Speaker 3:
[11:34] Yeah, I have quite a few because I feel like a lot of times if I sort of created a recipe, if it needs anything like a protein or something more filling, like a can of chickpeas is always just the answer. And so I'd say most of my sheet pans, you'll find at least a can of chickpeas on there. And usually I'll do it where if it's veggies and chickpeas, I'll sort of separate them so the chickpeas can have their breathing room and they can get really crispy while the veggies are letting off all that moisture and kind of steaming. Because you don't want them to keep the chickpeas from getting as crispy as they could be. I think that's a great way of just adding a pop of protein and fiber. I have a wintry green bowl that I do. You just do big chunks of onion and sweet potato, and then there's chickpeas on the other side of the pan, and that all just kind of roast together, and then you top it with, I have a yum sauce, but I think the restaurant is in Portland, Cafe Yum.

Speaker 1:
[12:26] It is. I was going to say, is it the Portland Yum Sauce? It's this famous place in Portland, and people are obsessed with the sauce.

Speaker 3:
[12:34] Yeah. Well, it's rightfully so. It's so good. That sauce also has chickpeas in it. And so it's like a double whammy of chickpeas, because the sauce that blends silken tofu and nutritional yeast and chickpeas and almonds. And then you drizzle that over and it's just out of this world.

Speaker 2:
[12:51] Well, I want to go back to a tip that you offered, because that's something that Sonya and I are always sharing with each other and that we want to always share with our listeners. And I think it's really smart if you're doing a sheet pan meal where you have vegetables and you have chickpeas that you're giving the chickpeas their space. Because I do think that you're really going for crispiness especially when you're roasting them on a sheet pan. And if you're putting them next to broccoli or cauliflower or really any vegetable, it's going to give off some water and that's going to prevent the chickpeas from getting crispy. I was wondering, what recipe would you point someone towards if they're chickpea curious? Or maybe even if they're a little chickpea resistant? Like, do you have recipes that you really try to convert people over to chickpea love?

Speaker 3:
[13:34] Oh, that's an interesting one because I feel like the Marry Me Chickpeas have so much flavor, but I think for people who texture is kind of an issue, then that's not an ideal one because they're not getting crispy. They're cooking in that sauce. They still have a lot of that chickpea texture. I would say one where the chickpeas get really crispy. So like my air fryer chickpeas, I think that could be a nice one. I have a seasoning option in there that kind of makes them taste like Doritos. It uses like nutritional yeast. And so I feel like something like that would be great for a chickpea curious person because they just kind of, they're almost like potato chips. They're so crispy and so flavorful that you forget that they're a bean.

Speaker 1:
[14:11] Can you walk us through the exact spicing you use? I love the idea of a Dorito chickpea.

Speaker 3:
[14:15] Yeah. So the Dorito flavor, nutritional yeast is sort of the base that adds a lot of that umami, savory, cheesy kind of flavor while keeping it totally vegan. And then I use garlic powder, some onion powder, cumin, paprika. I like to use smoked paprika. That's just my favorite spice, but you could also use sweet. A little bit of chili powder and then salt. And so they're all in equal proportions. It's all a quarter teaspoon of all those spices. And then two big tablespoons of the nutritional yeast. And so I just like to make a big batch of that, honestly. And then I'll sprinkle it on to a lot of things like kale chips or anything I'm cooking, honestly. But it's really good on the chickpeas from the air fryer.

Speaker 2:
[14:57] Do you ever do a taco version of that? Because I feel like that goes back to like your sort of gyro chickpeas. Putting something like that into a starch or a taco shell, that helps people access those flavors. And so if you're giving them a crispy chickpea with a Dorito flavor, my brain immediately goes to like a taco.

Speaker 3:
[15:17] I've done chickpea tacos. I haven't done them with this seasoning blend, which now I'm feeling like I maybe should. I think my chickpea tacos, I forget the exact seasonings I use, but it's very similar, like cumin, some spices. And with that one, I do like a cilantro sauce, a creamy cilantro sauce that ties it all together. That one's also ready in 15 minutes, and it's one of my favorite recipes. I made it the cover of my cookbook because I just love it so much.

Speaker 1:
[15:41] Yeah, that vibrant green of a cilantro sauce against the toasty caramelized brown of a spiced roasted chickpea. Or is that an air-fried chickpea? Either way, it's such a beautiful combo of colors. And again, that's part of what draws people into a vegetarian dish if they're not already inclined to eat that way.

Speaker 3:
[15:59] Yeah, just having the different components that sort of balance each other. You want the creamy, and the soft, and the crunchy, and the spice.

Speaker 2:
[16:05] Can you walk us through your cilantro sauce? Because I feel like that would be great with any of the roasted chickpeas. Even if someone's just starting with a basic roasted chickpea, to have a creamy sauce would make it taste so delicious.

Speaker 3:
[16:17] Yeah, so it's definitely a sauce for cilantro lovers, which our house is cilantro lovers. It uses a cup of cilantro. Then you're going to blend that together with a half a cup of plain yogurt, a quarter cup of red wine vinegar, a quarter cup of extra virgin olive oil, two teaspoons of mustard, few cloves of garlic, and then a half teaspoon each of smoked paprika, cumin, and black pepper. That just all blends together and it's so vibrantly green, and it has so much cilantro flavor in the zinc and the vinegar, and yeah, it would go well on a lot of things, but tacos is my favorite.

Speaker 1:
[16:55] We love a good herb sauce, and I was surprised or forgot that Ina Garten hates cilantro. I was reading her, we're listening to an interview, and she was like, I hate cilantro. It's never in any recipes, and I was like, wow, she's right. It's never been in any of her recipes. So I would say to anyone who hates cilantro, I feel like that sauce could be, you could swap out parsley for the cilantro, or you could do a combination of mint and parsley, and it would be super yummy. It just feels like a really versatile, because really it's that yogurt, and vinegar, and mustard, and all those other flavors that add to it. It's a great base. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[17:30] I'm also thinking it's not the same cuisine by any means, but a romesco sauce would be really good on it, with the roasted pepper, and the almonds, and the smoky flavors. I think that could work really well with the crispy chickpeas.

Speaker 1:
[17:44] I want to go back to desserts because you drop that you do make desserts with chickpeas, and I think this is always surprising or baffling to some people. I know there was a lot of controversy when they started making chocolate chickpea hummus and selling it at Trader Joe's, and people had a lot of mixed reviews on that as a concept. But it's true that they can be incorporated into desserts in really interesting ways. Do you have a favorite tried-and-true chickpea dessert recipe?

Speaker 3:
[18:11] Yeah. So I make chickpea blondies, sort of like in the same vein as how black bean brownies are delicious. I use chickpeas to make blondies. I've been making this recipe for years now, and I just sort of remade the recipe because I wanted new photos of it and to retest it. And I've fallen in love with it again because it's so good. Now all my friends are requesting it for their birthdays. It's like the thing in our friend group that everyone wants chickpea blondies on their birthdays. It's really easy, honestly. You just throw everything into a blender or a food processor. It's got chickpeas, which replace the flour, and then it uses almond butter instead of peanut butter. And that's just because I'm allergic. And I also, I mean, I haven't tasted peanut butter, so I'm not, I can't tell for sure, but I think it would make the flavor more neutral than a peanut butter. And so it really sort of highlights the chickpea flavor without being overwhelmingly chickpeas.

Speaker 1:
[19:02] There's no flour at all.

Speaker 3:
[19:04] Yeah. Basically, the chickpeas are providing all the structure for the brownies or the blondies. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[19:10] And it's also a one-bowl dessert, right? It must be so easy to make.

Speaker 3:
[19:14] Yeah, it's so easy. You just, you put everything into the food processor and blend it, and then you mix in some white chocolate chip. Or recently, I've been doing half-half, like white chocolate and then dark or semi-dark chunks. And then you just bake it and it's so good.

Speaker 2:
[19:28] Sarah, we've talked about a lot of these really easy chickpea recipes, which I think any home cook, whether you're starting or whether you're more advanced, can really access. But I noticed a couple of these, I would call them a little bit more fussy recipes with your chickpeas. There is a chickpea cordon bleu, which really caught my eye. There's also chickpeas and dumplings, which I believe you said was one of your most popular recipes, and you found it surprising because it is fussy. I was watching these videos, it really speaks to this idea that people are willing to invest more time for a recipe that's really tasty. I'm just wondering, where did these ideas come from?

Speaker 3:
[20:09] Yeah, so those are both products of Chickpea Friday, and that's just so kind of what I do at Chickpea Friday is I think of, what are those classic recipes that people who might have just given up meat or trying to eat less meat, what are those recipes that they might be craving? And a lot of times they're chicken based, and usually when I see a chicken recipe, I just think I could use chickpeas instead. And so that was definitely the case with the Cordon Bleu and the chickpeas and dumplings. The dumplings, yeah, that was one of my most popular recipes last year. And I think it's just because people want the comfort food that they grew up on, and they crave it, but they don't know how to create that. It's a little fuzzy because it's two major steps. It's creating that soup and then it's creating the dumplings. Once you do it, I think you realize that it's a lot easier than it seems. But I think it's interesting that people are starting to spend more time on these dinners for the sake of getting the flavors that they miss.

Speaker 1:
[21:07] I think there's a place for the quick weeknight recipe and then there's a place for something that takes a little more effort but yields really big rewards or makes you feel connected to your family or to comfort or to connection. Can you walk us a little bit through that chickpea dumpling recipe?

Speaker 3:
[21:23] Like any soup, you're sort of building up the flavors. So you start off with the base of carrots and celery and onion and garlic and you cook a little of that until it's a bit soft. And then you stir in some flour and poultry seasoning. Poultry seasoning is totally vegan. It's just the seasoning that you might use for poultry. But doing that sort of does signal to your brain that it's a synonymous recipe. And so we use that and then you'll stir in some broth and that sort of thickens once it hits that flour. So you let that simmer all together. And then you make the dumpling dough, which is just the basic dough. It's flour and baking powder, salt. I put some poultry seasoning in that as well, just to infuse that with flavor. So every part of the recipe, no matter what you're eating, has that flavor. And then for that one, I actually use a vegan creamer to sort of tenderize the dough. But if you're not totally vegan, you could also just use heavy cream or half and half. And then yeah, basically you just take like your ice cream scooper or a spoon and just take portions of the dough and plop it into the soup and put a lid on it. And then those steam in the soup and the whole thing is ready in about 45 minutes. That's a really cozy Sunday type of dinner that actually doesn't take that long.

Speaker 2:
[22:33] If you are making traditional chicken and dumplings, it's impossible to have it ready in 45 minutes. So I think there's something so generous about that idea that you can also still make it in 45 minutes. And I would also add to this conversation about these classic dishes, that you have this chickpea pot pie. And what I also really love about that recipe is how forgiving it is with the topping. I think you mentioned you make the pie dough in the lattice shape. My lovely friend Sonya would do the same thing. She would make it gorgeous. And she would do like a perfect lattice. I would just like slap the pie crust over the top and call it a day. But I also love that you say you can use refrigerated biscuit dough if you don't have a pie crust. And I think that's helpful for home cooks that are trying out these new ideas. Giving them some of these shortcuts is really helpful.

Speaker 3:
[23:23] Yeah, because they're already taking the time to create this dish that might be out of their comfort zone and might take more time or effort than they're used to. So to provide those little shortcuts for people who aren't used to making like a whole pot pie, I think it sort of bridges the gap and makes it seem a little more attainable, which is kind of what I'm all about. And kind of the whole idea of Chickpea Friday in the first place is, this is attainable and you can do it. And as you get going, you're going to feel more comfortable making some of these more complicated dishes.

Speaker 1:
[23:52] Yeah, Sarah, because you have this food science and nutrition background, which is so admirable and fascinating on its own, can you speak to some of the nutritional benefits of chickpeas? There must be more than just that you like chickpeas. There seems like there's a reason you're especially highlighting this ingredient for people.

Speaker 3:
[24:11] Yeah, so it is kind of like twofold. There's the versatility of it, which I love. It's such an easy way of getting a healthy ingredient into your meal, but it's also a nutrition powerhouse. They've got a lot of protein and fiber, which are the two big things for me. The protein is going to help you to feel satiated for longer. So after your meal, you're not going to be hungry in like an hour. And then the fiber is going to help you feel full right away. And that's sort of like your meal ending signal that keeps you from going back for thirds or fours because you actually have substance in your belly. It's got a really unique texture, I think, compared to a lot of beans. I've been loving butter beans lately, but they're so fragile that I don't think they could hold up in some of these dishes. Whereas chickpeas, they can hold up in the air fryer. They can keep that texture or they can get soft if you really want them to. But that definitely does make them unique and sort of helps you use them in this wide variety of recipes that we're able to do.

Speaker 1:
[25:08] Sarah, one thing that has gotten a lot of notice in recent years with chickpeas is aquafaba, which is the cooking liquid of the chickpea, which can come from the can if you strain out that liquid and reserve it. A lot of people use aquafaba in place of egg whites, like they'll use it for meringues or other kind of vegan uses. Can you share any ways that you use aquafaba?

Speaker 3:
[25:28] Yeah. Basically, the liquid that's in the can of chickpeas can be whipped similar to egg whites and it creates a really light and fluffy vegan alternatives to egg whites or meringue. One way that I like to use this is I'll mix that aquafaba with coconut milk and a bit of sugar and vanilla, and then I use that as popsicles in the summer and they taste just like marshmallows.

Speaker 1:
[25:53] Really?

Speaker 2:
[25:53] Oh, wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:54] What is it? I don't understand what it does to the texture as opposed to just freezing coconut milk. What does it add?

Speaker 3:
[26:00] It makes it so light and fluffy because you're whipping the aquafaba until it's stiff peaks. So I like to do some cream of tartar in there and then sugar at the same time to stabilize the structure. Then I just slowly whisk in the coconut milk and then pour it in the popsicle molds and it's so good. I came out with a popsicle cookbook in 2019. So I had to come up with 75 popsicle recipes and so I was like, let's just see what we can do with aquafaba. And that ended up being one of my favorite recipes in the book because it just tastes like light and fluffy marshmallows in popsicle form. But you can also use it almost any way that you would use egg whites. So you can do spiced nuts with it, like if you toss walnuts and then you sprinkle on some seasonings and just bake it for a bit. That's really nice too.

Speaker 1:
[26:50] That's so smart. Or like granola instead of using an egg white if you add that. I am actually going to do that this week.

Speaker 2:
[26:57] That's genius. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1:
[26:59] I think the idea of not wasting that liquid and having it be this magical resource is just so cool.

Speaker 2:
[27:06] Yeah, I really love that. Well, Sarah, whenever we have a guest come on, we always ask them the same question, which is, is there any specific dish or any special way you like to celebrate your birthday?

Speaker 3:
[27:18] I think my favorite meal is breakfast. And so I just go all out on breakfast on my birthday, which I guess can mean a lot of different things. Like whatever my hyper fixation meal of the week is. If my birthday were to be this week, it would be an everything bagel with an egg and some vegan chorizo.

Speaker 2:
[27:36] Love that. I also saw that you really like to make pancakes. And so I'm wondering if you would also choose pancakes for your birthday.

Speaker 3:
[27:44] Oh, I might choose pancakes or cinnamon rolls. I think is also I made these chai espresso cinnamon rolls for Christmas this year, and I haven't stopped thinking about them. They're so good.

Speaker 1:
[27:55] That sounds so delicious. Well, you've given us a lot to think about with chickpeas. I'm excited to try so many of these dishes. Thank you so much for sharing all your legume wisdom with us.

Speaker 2:
[28:07] It was a real pleasure to have you. Thank you.

Speaker 3:
[28:09] Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 1:
[28:11] And we'll link everything in the show notes. We'll have everyone be able to find your site, your book, and the recipes that we've mentioned in this episode. So definitely check those show notes out.

Speaker 3:
[28:20] Awesome. Thank you. Bye. Until next time. Bye.

Speaker 1:
[28:23] Mary, you know I'm a little obsessed with cookbooks.

Speaker 2:
[28:27] That's an understatement.

Speaker 1:
[28:28] So if you're even a little like me, you have to check out one of my favorite podcasts, Everything Cookbooks. It's all about the world of cookbook publishing and I truly never miss an episode. It's hosted by Cookbook Pros, Molly Stevens, Kristen Donnelly, Andrea Nguyen, and Kate Leahy. And they take you behind the scenes of how cookbooks get made.

Speaker 2:
[28:49] Sonya, I may not be as obsessed with cookbooks as you, but I do love this show. It's really a joy to listen for anyone who loves cooking, who wants new recipe ideas. Obviously, I do. And is just curious about how things get made in the food world.

Speaker 1:
[29:03] They talk to bestselling authors, emerging talent, editors, agents, all the people who actually make a cookbook happen.

Speaker 2:
[29:10] It's really changed how I think about recipe development, headnotes, even food photography. And it makes you appreciate the cookbooks you own even more.

Speaker 1:
[29:19] Find Everything Cookbooks wherever you listen to podcasts. And learn more at everythingcookbooks.substack.com.

Speaker 2:
[29:26] Thanks for being our food friend.

Speaker 1:
[29:28] If you enjoyed our podcast, please subscribe, leave us a review, and share this episode with friends. We love hearing from you, so follow us on Instagram, or drop us a line at foodfriendspodcast.com.

Speaker 2:
[29:41] Yes, we'd love to hear from you and your food friends. Happy cooking and eating!