transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:02] This is a Headgum Podcast.
Speaker 2:
[00:17] On today's episode, If That Was Us, we're diving into season five, episode 10, I've Got This. As life with newborns sets in, the Pearsons confront pride, money, and the pressure to hold it all together. Kevin wrestles with what it means to provide Kate and Toby face hard truths, and Randall and Beth manage the growing pains of a full house.
Speaker 3:
[00:43] This episode is brought to you by Subaru. Go further in a long-range Subaru Hybrid with up to 581 miles per tank in the Forester Hybrid. Longer range, better fuel efficiency, and legendary symmetrical all-wheel drive, standard. The Subaru Forester Hybrid. Visit subaru.com/hybrid to learn more. Maximum range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy in a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary.
Speaker 1:
[01:12] What's going on, y'all?
Speaker 2:
[01:13] Hello.
Speaker 1:
[01:15] Here we are. Here we are. We're officially on the back half or yeah, this episode. Well, this season was only 16 episodes, right?
Speaker 2:
[01:21] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[01:21] So we've been on the back half for a second. Yeah, I dig it. There's a lot going on. There's a lot. This is the tension. There's a lot of things. What's foremost in my mind right now is the dinner between the Kate and Kevin and Toby and Madison and how that whole thing plays out. There's a lot of stuff else that happens. But there is a musculature to Tobias that I think we haven't seen, maybe up to this point or maybe just fleetingly, but just the pressure that men put on themselves, that society places on them to be provider, and just two different providers with very different perspectives on what it means to do so. It's intense. Yeah. It's intense. I don't want to jump around because we'll get to it when we get to it. So you guys tell me where we're going to start with this joint and I will jump in with you.
Speaker 4:
[02:20] I mean, it kind of, the episode starts with sort of a montage, right? Of like giving babies baths and changing them and feeding them. I mean, it's like, it's Kevin and Madison, it's Toby and Kate, it's Jack and Rebecca. And all sort of with this beautiful song about how lucky can one man get, right? It's like Kurt Viall featuring John Prine.
Speaker 2:
[02:40] Another John Prine song.
Speaker 4:
[02:41] Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:
[02:42] Do we know John Prine?
Speaker 4:
[02:43] Yeah, that's his favorite. That's the man. I guess we can kind of start with, I mean, because the Kevin and Madison and Toby and Kate storyline sort of-
Speaker 1:
[02:52] Converge.
Speaker 4:
[02:53] They're interwoven.
Speaker 1:
[02:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[02:55] I guess with Kevin and Madison, there is this, Kevin comes in and has a dress for Madison, right? Yes. We should get dressed up and maybe invite Toby and Kate over for dinner, be adults. We'll have our nanny help take care of all of the kids, and we can put them down, and she can watch them while we come out and have half a glass of wine.
Speaker 1:
[03:22] I can pump and have a half glass of wine.
Speaker 4:
[03:24] Pump and have a half a glass of wine. She's very into this idea.
Speaker 2:
[03:28] The overarching theme among all the storylines is this, what life was like once we figured out the pandemic a little bit.
Speaker 4:
[03:38] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[03:38] Yeah. Over in Randall and Beth's house, all the girls are home because it's the thing.
Speaker 1:
[03:44] Right.
Speaker 2:
[03:44] But also-
Speaker 4:
[03:45] Mom can come and visit.
Speaker 2:
[03:46] Mama C is there, hovering over things. Kate and Toby, you see Toby on some kind of Zoom calls, Zoom interview.
Speaker 4:
[03:56] He's trying to find a job.
Speaker 2:
[03:58] Yeah, and it's all of this kind of like, what was life like when we were all still trapped, but the bubbles were growing a little bit.
Speaker 1:
[04:07] Starting to grow a little bit. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:
[04:09] So do we want to start at, whose house do we want to start at?
Speaker 4:
[04:12] Well, we could start with Kevin and Madison and the fact that like, yes, they agree to have this dinner with Toby and Kate and gosh, I'm trying to see where they converge exactly.
Speaker 1:
[04:24] Kind of have to go back and forth between the two a little bit, right?
Speaker 4:
[04:27] Kind of, because Kate and Toby, we see Kate, she's coming out of, I believe this is the first time that we've seen her at this school for the blind, this musical, this music school for the blind.
Speaker 1:
[04:40] They say something about like, we've missed you.
Speaker 4:
[04:42] Yeah, exactly. It's strange, because I'm like, wait, where are we?
Speaker 2:
[04:45] So is it a time cut? Is it like, cause she says in the last episode, that the school needs a teacher's assistant member in the last episode.
Speaker 4:
[04:57] Yeah, but I just don't, I was racking my brain like, have we seen her there before?
Speaker 1:
[05:02] I think so, because earlier in the season, didn't you guys go together or you were resistant to go? Or is that another thing?
Speaker 4:
[05:10] I think that's another thing. I don't think there's a music class, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[05:13] Maybe Hot Take, none of this makes sense.
Speaker 4:
[05:15] Maybe none of it makes sense. I know more about the music school once Kate is teaching there, like Rebecca goes on visits and stuff. But this is the first that I remember of it, like, oh, okay, so she's coming out of class and a teacher's like, we've missed you volunteering. And Kate's like, I know, I'm so sorry, it's really hard at home, like having a new baby is just like, it's hard to sort of like split my time up.
Speaker 1:
[05:38] Maybe we just kind of jumped her in there so we could set it up for later.
Speaker 4:
[05:41] I believe so.
Speaker 2:
[05:42] That happens, that happens.
Speaker 4:
[05:43] I was like, oh, okay, I guess they're going to the school for Jack because he loves music.
Speaker 2:
[05:47] Yeah, she works there and nobody knows where their dog is.
Speaker 4:
[05:50] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[05:50] Great.
Speaker 1:
[05:52] Is that, did the dog just went away?
Speaker 2:
[05:54] Yup, during the pandemic. Audio, gone.
Speaker 4:
[05:58] He was put up for adoption.
Speaker 2:
[05:59] No explanation.
Speaker 1:
[06:00] Everybody else got a dog.
Speaker 2:
[06:01] Yeah, that's the spinoff is audio and William's cat running around somewhere.
Speaker 4:
[06:08] Running around town.
Speaker 2:
[06:09] Yeah, like Milo and audio.
Speaker 4:
[06:11] Pruney and audio.
Speaker 1:
[06:12] There is, we do get a sense of, we found out that Toby lost his job at the end of the last episode. Yeah. So he's doing Zoom interviews. My man, like a champ, has got his baby off to his side. He's got an iron hooked up to the stroller or to the baby chair.
Speaker 2:
[06:29] Yeah, golf club.
Speaker 1:
[06:29] Rocking the baby at the same time.
Speaker 4:
[06:31] He is in a, I guess, like a suit, half of his suit up top, nothing on the bottom.
Speaker 1:
[06:39] He's in a suit and tie, but he's poo bearing it too.
Speaker 4:
[06:42] I was going to say, porky pig, right?
Speaker 1:
[06:44] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[06:47] So like all tops, no bottoms. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[06:50] He's got like jacket, tie. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[06:52] Jacket, tie. And poor guy has like a whole backdrop behind him that just like crashes.
Speaker 1:
[06:59] This was masterful too. So it was like, so that happened. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I can't do anything about it. But it all fell apart. And it just sort of like leads to like, let's get real. I've done about 30 of these things. Nothing's panned out. Do I have a shot at this?
Speaker 4:
[07:13] Or should I just like get off the Zoom and go put on my pants?
Speaker 2:
[07:16] Yeah. I was like, you're our number one candidate.
Speaker 1:
[07:18] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[07:18] You're like, very charmed.
Speaker 2:
[07:19] So we'll get back to you.
Speaker 1:
[07:20] We're feeling good about this.
Speaker 4:
[07:21] Yeah. Toby's feeling really good.
Speaker 1:
[07:23] I think the other thing too is like, he didn't want to tell anybody that he lost his job.
Speaker 4:
[07:28] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[07:28] Until he had something else lined up, right?
Speaker 4:
[07:31] Fair enough.
Speaker 2:
[07:31] I want to also say this. One of my favorite, I would like to toot my own horn for a quick second. It's completely inconsequential, but at the end of this, Toby celebrates by swinging the golf club like a baseball bat. I don't know if you caught that. I caught that. I just found that really funny.
Speaker 1:
[07:50] I like it.
Speaker 2:
[07:51] So toot, toot. Let me go.
Speaker 4:
[07:55] They're in the car on their way to-
Speaker 1:
[07:58] Kevin and Madison's.
Speaker 4:
[07:59] To Kevin and Madison's house. He's nervous about the new job, but he's feeling good.
Speaker 2:
[08:04] Sure.
Speaker 4:
[08:05] Good vibes were sort of shared. I think you've like reached out, like sent another email, right?
Speaker 2:
[08:11] Or something? Yeah, something like that. But don't tell Kevin.
Speaker 4:
[08:13] Yeah. Don't tell him I lost the job. I don't want to say anything until I have a new job. Lined up. All of that aside, they get to Madison and Kevin's house, and he gets this email that he didn't get the job. He sort of like slyly gets the email on his phone.
Speaker 2:
[08:32] He keeps it to himself.
Speaker 4:
[08:33] He keeps it to himself, compartmentalizes.
Speaker 1:
[08:36] There's also just like this really interesting contrast going on in terms of like, Kev's got a butt ton of gifts. He's getting gifts from Glenn Close. He's getting gifts from-
Speaker 4:
[08:47] Wubbin up. I was like, Glenn, those are pacifiers.
Speaker 1:
[08:49] You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:
[08:50] You can do better?
Speaker 1:
[08:51] Please.
Speaker 4:
[08:51] Okay. You can step up your gifts game a little bit more.
Speaker 2:
[08:55] Tiffany's has silver spoons.
Speaker 4:
[08:57] Please.
Speaker 1:
[08:58] He's got, and then, but like the, what, Piestas Resistances, the couple of cohibas that he got from Leonardo DiCaprio's manager. And he's like, yeah, man, let's go ahead and do these cohibas, right? And it's interesting because, Kev, it's an interesting thing because I think when you're at a certain place in life, you get a chance to dream. And when you're not in that place, dreams are hard to like conceive of. You have to survive.
Speaker 4:
[09:27] Survive.
Speaker 1:
[09:28] And so you're dealing with a couple that is in survival, right? Because of that loss of job that has just happened in the expansion family.
Speaker 4:
[09:35] An unknown future.
Speaker 1:
[09:36] An unknown future versus someone who is in a very comfortable place and is really just sort of like wondering like what is it all going to look like? And like innocently, not even meanly, but innocent.
Speaker 4:
[09:47] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[09:48] There's no ego about it.
Speaker 1:
[09:49] None at all whatsoever.
Speaker 4:
[09:50] And in fact, there is this really generous, beautiful side of Kevin that's just sort of like, I want to share my dreams with everybody. Like my dreams are about everybody because my family is my sister and my brother-in-law, my brother, like he really, it's an interesting sort of turn in this episode to go, oh, your family tree is really about the family that you've created. Like that is where your allegiance sort of stands. And so that's a very perceptible, has to be a conscious decision and choice and shift for Kevin because his entire life has been about like he says later in the episode, which we'll get to, just like, I thought my whole family like was gonna be about my mom and my dad and my brother and sister forever. Like we were all gonna live with each other forever. And in fact, he verbalizes this with Toby in this episode about, you know, they're outside smoking these cigars, Toby is noticeably in a very different headspace than Kevin. And Kevin's just sort of waxing on about like-
Speaker 2:
[11:02] Buying a compound in Malibu.
Speaker 4:
[11:03] In Malibu and they could all live there together and he's dreaming about it. He's kind of like, you know, checking out Zillow and-
Speaker 1:
[11:09] By the way, like, I'm gonna just do, here's a toot toot for you. Like the face that you give throughout all of it is just like, oh man, you're not reading the room at all. Like how lucky it is for you to be able to just like, think about buying a compound. Like I think he used compound was the word, right? And he's just like, all right, let me smoke this cigar. By the way, you ever smoke a cigar?
Speaker 4:
[11:35] No.
Speaker 1:
[11:37] You have, yes or no? Oh yeah. I'm not great at it. Cigars will get you- up. Like, cause you're not supposed to inhale. But inadvertently, like a little bit, I got sick. And I think I did it once when I was like 19, 20. And then I was like, I think I'm good with cigars. Will you still do a cigar?
Speaker 2:
[11:58] No.
Speaker 1:
[11:58] No.
Speaker 2:
[11:59] Rachel's allergic to them. So even if I enjoyed it-
Speaker 4:
[12:02] I do not like the smell. Taylor liked it for a while. And I was like, not all the time, like celebratory sort of thing, but he too got sick. Sorry, babe, to blow up your spot. I was like, maybe no more for you, Taylor.
Speaker 2:
[12:13] As a young man, as a younger man, I was offered a variety of props for a scene in the Nick. It was an underground boxing.
Speaker 1:
[12:24] Oh, you did have a cigar in that.
Speaker 2:
[12:26] I had five cigars before 9 a.m. Because I said, he's gonna be smoking a cigar and it's underground boxing thing. And he's coaching this guy and he's all sweaty and smoky. And I just, you know, it's one of those lessons, one of those acting lessons. You know, if you guys smoke- Don't brush your teeth. Don't brush your teeth. It's a real toothpaste. If you're gonna smoke a cigar, you're gonna be smoking a lot of cigars.
Speaker 1:
[12:52] How did you feel?
Speaker 2:
[12:53] Oh, I was green. I was green.
Speaker 1:
[12:55] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[12:55] I was, yeah, I won't ever do it again.
Speaker 1:
[12:58] That was it.
Speaker 2:
[12:59] I think I almost learned a similar lesson during this dinner when they provided sushi.
Speaker 1:
[13:05] Did you kill the sushi? Did you partake?
Speaker 2:
[13:09] Yes.
Speaker 4:
[13:11] You partook.
Speaker 2:
[13:12] Come on.
Speaker 4:
[13:13] Was it good sushi?
Speaker 2:
[13:14] It was good sushi. It was really good sushi, which is the problem. If they had gone low, but it was like, I'm not kidding. I think it was like, I don't want to say it was from Noma, but-
Speaker 4:
[13:27] Sushi Nobu? Nobu. You think it was?
Speaker 2:
[13:30] I think it might have actually been Nobu.
Speaker 4:
[13:32] It looked very fancy.
Speaker 2:
[13:34] I was like, well, then I'm eating this.
Speaker 1:
[13:35] Let me tell you one of my favorite things, our prop master, Rick, because we had a couple of people, but Rick in particular. And this is-
Speaker 4:
[13:44] Does Rick work on Paradise?
Speaker 1:
[13:46] Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Love you so much.
Speaker 4:
[13:49] Sweet Rick.
Speaker 1:
[13:50] But Justin had this delightfully benign habit of eating prop food in between takes. What? He'd just be relaxing, popping something in his mouth, and Rick would just be standing there, like, hey man, you just go keep eating the food. Justin didn't even pay it any attention. He's like, this is delicious. Rick would just be like, okay, I'm going to have to replace all this shit.
Speaker 4:
[14:16] Yeah, but also, like, how long has I been sitting there?
Speaker 1:
[14:19] Oh, he didn't care. The man's got a stomach like iron.
Speaker 2:
[14:21] Not to blow up his spot, but have you ever seen anyone eat more candy?
Speaker 1:
[14:25] He eats a ton. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[14:27] By the handful.
Speaker 1:
[14:28] A ton. That's what it was. He would just pick whatever it was. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[14:32] Yeah. A lot of candy.
Speaker 2:
[14:35] I mean, come back with two fistfuls of candy from Kraft Services and put them next to it and just...
Speaker 1:
[14:42] Built like an Asgardian.
Speaker 4:
[14:44] Yeah, but I mean, but also like nerds and like candy. Yeah, yeah. Milo and I would reserve it. We would have like a look between us when it was like, is it time? It's time. And we would know, that would be like our acknowledgement that we both needed a little sugar pick me up. And that's when we would go like treat ourselves and get a little candy. It was very few and far between. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[15:10] But the face that you gave to him during the scene was very good and appropriate for where you were in your journey.
Speaker 2:
[15:17] And essentially telling him, I don't think that's going to work.
Speaker 1:
[15:22] Right.
Speaker 4:
[15:22] I don't like Malibu.
Speaker 2:
[15:23] Right. And he's still not reading the room. It's like, yeah, we don't want him to grow up and be stoner surfers.
Speaker 4:
[15:30] Like, no, that's not what I was talking about.
Speaker 2:
[15:32] That's not what I was talking about.
Speaker 4:
[15:33] Summer is coming. It is almost upon us. The kids are going to be at a school. My husband tours professionally for a living. So we are going to be following him on the road this summer.
Speaker 3:
[15:46] He doesn't have like a full blown tour, but he'll have tour dates here and there.
Speaker 4:
[15:50] And it is always, always easiest for us and preferred to stay in an Airbnb.
Speaker 3:
[15:55] We need a kitchen.
Speaker 4:
[15:56] We need laundry. We need space. We need separate bedrooms. And all of that is only something that Airbnb can accommodate.
Speaker 2:
[16:03] Absolutely. I have been using Airbnb for years.
Speaker 4:
[16:06] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[16:07] And I use it not only for family travel, but for work travel. And when I go back and forth to the same city over and over again for a project, what I'll do is I'll pick a different Airbnb every time and explore different neighborhoods of that city.
Speaker 1:
[16:20] I love that. What a great idea, man. Here's the thing to think about as well. While you guys are going on these fantastic trips staying in Airbnbs, your house is just sitting there by itself.
Speaker 2:
[16:29] Just sitting there.
Speaker 4:
[16:29] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[16:30] It's a perfect opportunity to enlist the help of a co-host.
Speaker 2:
[16:33] Yeah, because it can sound like a lot to put your house up to be listed, but maybe you need a little help.
Speaker 4:
[16:38] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[16:38] And Airbnb has a co-host network.
Speaker 4:
[16:40] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[16:40] That make it easy with all kinds of support. They can help you with booking guests, with communicating with guests, anything that you need to make it go smoothly.
Speaker 1:
[16:48] Absolutely. Earn a little extra cash that helps you enjoy your time away and give somebody else an experience that they're looking forward to as well by sharing your home.
Speaker 4:
[16:56] You can find out more or you could find a co-host at airbnb.com/host.
Speaker 5:
[17:01] K-Pop Demon Hunter's Saja Boys Breakfast Meal and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?
Speaker 4:
[17:10] It's not a battle.
Speaker 6:
[17:11] So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
Speaker 7:
[17:15] It is an honor to share.
Speaker 5:
[17:17] No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor.
Speaker 1:
[17:21] No, really, stop.
Speaker 5:
[17:23] You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.
Speaker 1:
[17:28] Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.
Speaker 6:
[17:29] And participate in McDonald's while supplies last.
Speaker 7:
[17:33] Introducing the new Best Skin Ever Ultra Slim Precision Concealer from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look, whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe. At only $12, it's great for affordable touch-ups on the go. Get this new must have concealer at Sephora or at sephora.com today.
Speaker 1:
[18:01] On the other side, there's a beautiful thing that he's sort of like wanting these kids, your two kids under two and my two twins who are newborns, just to grow up together. Family on the West Coast. We're all from the East Coast. You're not from the East Coast, but the rest of the Pearsons. And to have family, to be able to grow up with your first cousins. As someone who grew up, first cousins were like brothers and sisters to me. Because my old brother and sister are 14 and 12 and a half years older than me. But I had other first cousins that were within three years, two years of me. And we were like siblings.
Speaker 4:
[18:33] Yeah. And I think that's what Kevin has designed for everyone can grow up together. And he was talking about that, like, we'll get you guys could drop your kids off here and we'll have our nanny or we'll get a teacher. And Toby's again, he's just like, you're not reading the room, dude.
Speaker 2:
[18:49] It's a real class divide.
Speaker 1:
[18:50] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[18:51] Totally. Totally.
Speaker 1:
[18:52] There's a moment. So we're at the dinner table.
Speaker 4:
[18:54] Yeah. Sushi comes.
Speaker 2:
[18:55] Also real quick backtrack.
Speaker 4:
[18:57] Go ahead.
Speaker 2:
[18:57] Didn't we all think that Toby owned that company?
Speaker 4:
[19:00] I didn't.
Speaker 2:
[19:01] That he worked for?
Speaker 1:
[19:02] At one point in time.
Speaker 2:
[19:03] It was like IT Solutions or something. Like he was the boss.
Speaker 1:
[19:06] There was something like that.
Speaker 2:
[19:08] Or at least he was a high man. He was telling people what to do.
Speaker 1:
[19:12] Sure.
Speaker 2:
[19:12] At his job. And then when he got fired, he was like, hey, wait a minute.
Speaker 4:
[19:17] The company dissolved.
Speaker 1:
[19:19] The writers did it to set something up for the future.
Speaker 4:
[19:22] Yeah, you were number three and it just wasn't. Yeah, you got fired.
Speaker 1:
[19:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah. At one point in time, Madison has to excuse herself from the table because she's lactating and gets up and go and they're talking about like, oh, don't you guys have, what's the toy, the thing that's new? And he's like, well, we actually rent it. Toby and Kate, we rented the first one for our boy and we decided like, I just bounce him, I do my thing like that. And he's just like, you should have a snoo. Like, we'll fix that right now. And it's just what I loved about this scene is that like, he has nothing but the best of intentions.
Speaker 4:
[20:04] Of course, he's like, I didn't even get a baby gift for Haley. This is perfect. You're doing me a favor.
Speaker 1:
[20:09] And you can see Toby as a man, and as a man watching it. I'm like, nobody's right or wrong. Just everybody is where they are in life, and they're in two different places.
Speaker 2:
[20:27] One of the most valuable life lessons I have learned is that you are not helping someone unless you are helping them the way they want to be helped.
Speaker 4:
[20:38] Boom.
Speaker 1:
[20:39] That one. Well said.
Speaker 4:
[20:41] Period.
Speaker 2:
[20:41] End of story.
Speaker 1:
[20:42] Well said.
Speaker 2:
[20:42] And I've had to learn that the hard way.
Speaker 1:
[20:44] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[20:44] And this is what's happening here, is that Kevin is assuming a certain level of intimacy with support as it relates to his sister.
Speaker 1:
[20:55] Right.
Speaker 2:
[20:55] Sure. And it's not being well discussed or considered.
Speaker 4:
[21:01] But also in Kevin's slight defense, he also doesn't have all the facts. Correct. Had he known that Toby had just lost his job, I'm sure he would have been a lot more sensitive to just deliriously offering. I mean, it is Kevin's-
Speaker 2:
[21:19] Maybe, but he finds out and then does double down. That's true.
Speaker 4:
[21:22] That's true. That's true.
Speaker 1:
[21:24] It was, because how's it come out? Like you feel like his generosity is evidence that you're wife.
Speaker 2:
[21:29] Did you tell him?
Speaker 1:
[21:30] Right.
Speaker 2:
[21:31] Yeah. Did you tell him?
Speaker 4:
[21:33] And Kate's like, kind of doesn't say anything.
Speaker 2:
[21:35] Yeah. Tell me what? And he essentially accidentally blows up his own spot.
Speaker 1:
[21:42] Yeah. You say that you lost your job and things aren't great.
Speaker 4:
[21:45] And Kate was like, but the good part is he already interviewed for another job and he's just waiting to-
Speaker 2:
[21:50] No, I don't. Didn't get that either. No, sorry. So thanks everybody. This sushi is great though.
Speaker 1:
[21:59] But the rant, if you call it that, that you go on is probably not the kindest thing, but also coming from a place of like, dude, when you said the thing about the nanny, like who does the real work and everything, and you just drop the baby off or what have you, I was like, oh boy.
Speaker 4:
[22:22] Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:
[22:22] This shit is is is hairy now. And even Kevin's like, hey man, you can come after me.
Speaker 4:
[22:27] Don't go after Madison.
Speaker 1:
[22:29] She's doing an exceptional job.
Speaker 4:
[22:31] She's working so hard.
Speaker 1:
[22:32] And the room doesn't ever really recover.
Speaker 4:
[22:34] No, no, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:
[22:36] It's just iced out.
Speaker 2:
[22:40] Madison goes to take care of her kids, and then Toby hears Haley crying, and now Kate and Kevin are left kind of staring at each other.
Speaker 1:
[22:54] Yeah. What happens? You guys have to tell me because I can't remember.
Speaker 4:
[22:59] Kate apologizes to Kevin for Toby.
Speaker 2:
[23:02] I mean, they essentially have a conversation that is-
Speaker 4:
[23:07] What I was alluding to before.
Speaker 2:
[23:08] Yeah, kind of sorry, not sorry. Like, I'm sorry that he lost his job, and I'm sure everything will be fine. Again, what's mine is yours. Kate pushes back a little bit and he says, no, no, mine is ours. I think it's what he says.
Speaker 4:
[23:22] Yeah, what's mine is ours is what I have written.
Speaker 2:
[23:25] Then Toby comes back out and says, I think we've got them both in place. We're in a good spot to transfer to the car. So she goes to get them ready. Then Toby and Kevin have a bit of an apology. He apologizes.
Speaker 1:
[23:44] Toby apologizes?
Speaker 2:
[23:45] Yes. Toby apologizes.
Speaker 1:
[23:46] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[23:49] Kevin says, I've already had a falling out with one brother. I couldn't stand to have it with another. I feel like a real missed opportunity. Toby would have, if he was in better spirits. William, your brother?
Speaker 1:
[24:04] Yeah, totally. If he was in a different headspace, that would have been totally him. Because there's such a bromance at the beginning. He's like, is that Mandy? You can even go back to college. Can I get a picture? Brothers. Great.
Speaker 2:
[24:16] But he says, no, this isn't an epic Pearson meltdown. This is just a sushi skirmish.
Speaker 1:
[24:23] Would you guys say that this is the beginning of the dissolution of this union? Or would you say, because we've gone through things before or what not, but we get into like this, would you say like this losing of this job in terms of like Kate and Toby, or is there something else that like, I mean, I know there's season later in the move to San Francisco. I'm jumping ahead a little bit or whatnot, and buying the house, which I love to talk about without telling your wife. But I'm saying like in this moment.
Speaker 2:
[24:56] Yeah. I think there is a moment if you were going to backtrack from The Disillusion, where this dinner scene is a whose team are you on?
Speaker 1:
[25:10] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[25:11] Are we on a team or are you a Pearson?
Speaker 4:
[25:14] Forever on a team with your brother, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[25:16] You even say it to a certain extent, you say like, we're a family.
Speaker 2:
[25:19] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[25:20] We're a regular family, and you're a family that is completely out of touch.
Speaker 2:
[25:24] Yeah. Then when Toby's out of the room, she just says, I need you to promise me that if you ever need anything, that you'll tell me. Yeah. She says, I will. That is obviously not a huge betrayal, but it is a moment of like, no.
Speaker 1:
[25:42] I hear you.
Speaker 2:
[25:44] I'm on both sides of the fence currently.
Speaker 1:
[25:45] Right.
Speaker 2:
[25:46] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[25:46] You're not wrong. I think they're laying the groundwork for what will eventually come.
Speaker 1:
[25:51] Yeah. Will you want to talk about Black Pearsons real quick?
Speaker 4:
[25:55] Yeah. Well, no, no. At the very end, Kate talks about how she will have his back forever, and also she got a job at Jack's school.
Speaker 1:
[26:04] Right.
Speaker 4:
[26:05] Right.
Speaker 1:
[26:06] That's right.
Speaker 4:
[26:06] They're going to be okay, no matter what. They're going to be okay, but she's like, how about this is something I'm passionate about, this is something I can do. Yeah. Because she mentions this during the fight, she mentioned she could work at the sushi dinner. Yeah. Toby sort of pooh-poohs it like you could go back to work, but you wouldn't be making as much money as I've been bringing in, so then there's the quandary of paying for child care. But the episode, this storyline ends with her being like, I have this job and we're going to figure it out no matter what.
Speaker 1:
[26:40] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[26:40] Which is like, okay, an adequate place to leave it.
Speaker 1:
[26:43] I'm curious for you guys as individuals, I know what society says, etc. So if and when you've ever found yourself in a position where your significant other made more money than you, was it an easy thing to deal with?
Speaker 2:
[26:59] Yeah, because I was pretty arrogant.
Speaker 1:
[27:01] You're like, I'm going to get a job.
Speaker 2:
[27:04] But when Rachel and I first met, I was like a Chicago theater actor.
Speaker 1:
[27:08] Right.
Speaker 2:
[27:09] She had a corporate sales job.
Speaker 1:
[27:12] Sure.
Speaker 2:
[27:12] She made a salary that she knew she was going to get.
Speaker 1:
[27:16] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[27:16] At the end of every year. And I was Wild West, commercials and voiceover and theater gigs, and did fine, did all right. As it proves to this day, as we were talking about going through our finances, it's a roller coaster. Some years it's way up here, and other years the W-2 says 7,500 bucks. For me, I guess I've always been like, aware that that was going to be a thing. So there have been times where Rach makes more money than me and times where I make more money than her. And yeah, it hasn't really been an issue for us, but we have unconventional jobs.
Speaker 1:
[28:03] Sure.
Speaker 2:
[28:04] So we have unconventional understandings of the normal gender roles.
Speaker 1:
[28:08] Mandy Moore, what about you? These gender roles of provision and who makes more or what not, has that ever been anything that has caused any sort of hiccup? Not necessarily with Taylor, but with any relationship that you've ever had?
Speaker 4:
[28:18] It's definitely caused hiccups, I think, in the past, but there was a real sense of awareness, I think, with Taylor of what was what, and he's never been bothered by it. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah, we do have that unconventional gender norms of who brings home more of, I guess, an income to provide for the family and whatnot in our life, but he does very well, all things considered too, in his line of work. We're both, we're very lucky, but I'm also lucky to be with somebody who is, because I don't think it is a comfortable position that every man could assume.
Speaker 1:
[29:04] Yeah, I would agree with that. I have never, I haven't been in the position, making less, no, probably I have, because Rye was a series regular on Boston Legal for a short period of time or whatnot. I remember thinking, I was like, I'm so happy for this chick, and I hope she's as happy for me when my time comes. I've always had in my head, I'm like, whenever it's my time, I look forward to it, because this is cool. She gets to work with Shatner and Spader and everything like that. I was like, man, when my time comes, it's going to be awesome too. I was just like, hey, pay these bills, baby, let's go.
Speaker 4:
[29:41] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[29:42] Okay. That's the end of that one, right?
Speaker 4:
[29:45] That is. Maybe we can stay in that world with Jack and Rebecca.
Speaker 2:
[29:50] Is this where she calls her mom at the end of this episode?
Speaker 4:
[29:54] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[29:55] Yeah, because there's this kind of understanding of like, Kate has this realization, because that's part of the conversation that she and Kevin have about like, we grew up a certain way, but we never thought we didn't have anything.
Speaker 4:
[30:09] Yeah. Mom and dad did such a seamless job of providing for us. So she does call her mom. Again, this was like a little scene that I did right before I gave birth. I was like, oh, I remember that, like just scrolled away on a couch on the cabin set.
Speaker 2:
[30:23] She just calls to say thank you.
Speaker 4:
[30:25] Thank you. Again, I think becoming a parent gives you this newfound perspective for your own parents and the trials and tribulations they may have encountered. She just has this deeper sense of appreciation for her mom and the childhood that mom and dad provided for them with no help, no support. They did it all with three kids. How did they handle all of that?
Speaker 2:
[30:47] If we want, we could jump into the flashback here and then do the Quick Jack and Rebecca storyline. Because we can Tarantino it a bit, because it flashes back to Rebecca walking into the kitchen and telling Jack, I'm going to take over our finances. You see this moment of the matriarch taking control and being like, no, we can do this together and here's what my responsibility is going to be, and here's how this is going to work, which is what Kate does too with like, I'm going to go get this job because I want to.
Speaker 4:
[31:24] In a way, she was calling to thank her mom for, I think, modeling that for her. You made this all work and she doesn't share that, but now in my own life, I'm doing the same thing. Because in this quick little Jack and Rebecca storyline, Jack is angling for a promotion at work. He's going to have this big dinner where she's saying, you got to push the gas a little bit, and things are really tight with three newborns who eat a lot and poop a lot.
Speaker 1:
[31:57] I can't imagine.
Speaker 2:
[31:58] Jack doesn't want to go. He knows that he doesn't fit in with this type of crew.
Speaker 1:
[32:02] Anytime he has to wear a tie and coat, it's, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[32:04] But Rebecca's like, well, you need to figure it out and put on a little show and get this job.
Speaker 4:
[32:10] Yeah, get this promotion. So he's at this dinner. Miguel is there. Miguel sort of insists that he tell this baseball story. Boosting him up, of course, Miguel always does. Jack tells the story and, of course, really wins over his bosses at work. They're like, wow, Pearson actually has a personality.
Speaker 1:
[32:29] Shout out to Ventimiglia. Yeah. Because the deafness with which he starts the story is like, you as an audience, we were like, I's not going to go well.
Speaker 4:
[32:39] Yeah, this guy, he doesn't want to be here.
Speaker 1:
[32:41] He doesn't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 4:
[32:43] The story maybe isn't that good.
Speaker 1:
[32:45] It winds up becoming something more, and he actually like, because to his credit, Milo Ventimiglia is a great storyteller.
Speaker 4:
[32:52] He is, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[32:53] And so he starts off like he's not, and then ultimately sort of leans in and comes up with something that he knows is going to pull people in. And even Miguel Lixelman is like, yeah, man.
Speaker 4:
[33:01] Yeah, that's what I was talking about.
Speaker 2:
[33:04] And then they finish off the meal by playing something called Credit Card Roulette.
Speaker 1:
[33:08] This is just awful.
Speaker 2:
[33:10] Which is a way to, I've never played it.
Speaker 4:
[33:16] I haven't either.
Speaker 1:
[33:17] This is a pulling out your penis sort of thing, Majig.
Speaker 2:
[33:21] But it also seems like a way to avoid having to go through, no, no, I got this. No, no, you know what?
Speaker 4:
[33:28] Maybe there wasn't a splitting it four ways back then or something.
Speaker 2:
[33:31] There definitely wasn't a splitting it four ways back then.
Speaker 1:
[33:33] Probably not.
Speaker 2:
[33:34] I didn't think this, I didn't even realize this was around.
Speaker 4:
[33:36] And Sweet Miguel jumps in and is like, oh, no, no, no. Jack shouldn't have to pay.
Speaker 1:
[33:40] He can't expense this.
Speaker 4:
[33:41] He can't expense this like you guys.
Speaker 2:
[33:42] And he's not drinking.
Speaker 4:
[33:44] And of course, Jack, like, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[33:46] No, no, I just got a master card.
Speaker 4:
[33:48] Yeah, I just got a master card. Like he obviously wants to sort of-
Speaker 1:
[33:52] It was so sweet. And his card looks so thin.
Speaker 4:
[33:54] It's so thin and brand new.
Speaker 2:
[33:56] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[33:57] Never been used.
Speaker 2:
[33:58] And they hold up the four cards and the server, of course, pulls Jack's master card and he-
Speaker 4:
[34:05] So he has to go home and explain to Rebecca why he spent $230 at this dinner.
Speaker 2:
[34:11] Which is so much money.
Speaker 4:
[34:13] Which is so much money and she was like, I asked you to get a promotion. I didn't ask you to go and spend $200. Like, how are we going to make this work? Which is essentially where then this phone call from Kate present day sort of weaves into the storyline. And then you see Rebecca kind of have a bit of an about face and she goes to Jack like, can we talk about this now? And he's like, no, I don't want to. And she's like, no, no, I'm going to be taking over the finances from now on. Like, I'm going to run this household. I know what we need. I know what we don't need. So just like, let me handle it moving forward. And I think that's sort of what set this family up for working that somehow Rebecca pulled a little from here and she made everything feel seamless for her family.
Speaker 1:
[35:04] This is happened in my family.
Speaker 4:
[35:07] It's the magic of moms and dads.
Speaker 1:
[35:11] It is like Arlene Brown said, like, look, you're good at certain things. I'm good at certain things. She said, I will do the finances, but this is interesting because they were married for 12 years, a year before I was born, almost 11 years before he passed away. Then she said, after five years, she said, okay, I've been doing this this whole time, now it's your turn. She said, I'm going to show you all the bills that we have and what we have to pay at what point in time. Then he did it for the next five years. But it was a really interesting thing because she took the reigns first and then said, all right, now it's your turn. So yeah, very cool.
Speaker 2:
[35:47] Very cool.
Speaker 4:
[35:48] That's how that ran in that storyline.
Speaker 2:
[35:51] Over at Randall and Beth's house.
Speaker 1:
[35:53] Randall has made himself a nice cozy little spot out on the porch. He's got what kind of plant?
Speaker 4:
[36:00] We've never seen the porch before.
Speaker 1:
[36:02] Is this the first time seeing the porch?
Speaker 4:
[36:04] Shooting out on it. We would walk through it all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[36:08] We got to start to use it more I think towards the end.
Speaker 4:
[36:11] Randall's out there with his basil plant. He's out there with a lot of the plants, but the basil is his buddy.
Speaker 1:
[36:16] Basil's become his baby. Yeah. Beth calls in the morning. She's like, hey, man, I need you to come back in the house. He's like, look, I got a little bit of space out here. There's a lot of strong female energy in here. I'm so happy that your mom came to take care of the girls while we went to Louisiana, but we've been back for a while, and she's still here, and I just kind of need a little space. She's like, look, you need space. Bruh, she's following me around, nitpicking every little thing that I do. Guys, I don't know if you've had this. I'm imagining that you had, but when the in-laws or your own mom or dad come, and what I'm learning is that the older generation just wants to be useful. Yes. What's the bar that you said about helping people, Sal?
Speaker 4:
[37:04] Helping people only the way that they want to be helped.
Speaker 1:
[37:08] Can we share that with them?
Speaker 4:
[37:10] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[37:10] Because that doesn't seem part of the whole thing. They're just going to help because it's like, well, clearly you don't understand how to do these things, and so I'll just do them for you. And it's, oh, so Beth gets Randall to come back into the house. And the girls are having a little argument over what they're going to watch on TV. Somebody wants to watch NCIS because Annie wants to watch NCIS, and they just like, we ain't watching no NCIS. So they have this argument. I think Tess is talking about her friend, Alex, and wanting to be in contact with Alex, et cetera. And you see Mama C just walking down, and she's like, girls, come on.
Speaker 4:
[37:50] Turn off the TV.
Speaker 1:
[37:51] Straight up school teacher.
Speaker 4:
[37:52] We are going to have healthy snacks, like popcorn chips, whatever Tess is eating. She's like, let's go.
Speaker 1:
[37:57] Let's go. And you see Randall and Beth, you see Randall just like, hey man, my name is Bennett and I ain't in it. I'm trying to disappear. And Beth is like, this is what I'm talking about. You feel the tension. Beth had already established because she thought her mom was about to leave that she's going to make a dinner to end all dinners and show that she is capable of keeping the house and raising children. I don't need you telling me what to do. Mama C winds up telling us, she's like, oh Randall has, she's like, hey Mama C, what time is your train leave? She said, you're trying to get me out of this house Randall? He's like, no, no, I would never say that. I just want to make sure you make it on time. All that kind of stuff. And she says, well Amtrak has a no return policy. It turns out I extended it by a week because clearly you guys need my help. And Beth is like, oh man. So she goes through with this dinner anyway. She's making some Caribbean fare that takes scotch bonnet, peppers, what have you. As she's making it, you can see, like Mama C is like, don't put too many of that. Not everybody can take the heat. And she's like, I can take the heat, right? There's also a wonderful introduction of pronouns in... We talked about pronouns a little bit earlier in this season. But I do remember for myself even, the first time that I was introduced to this conversation, which was probably just a few years before we got into it on the show and really having this idea of like, oh, this is new. I didn't know that this was something that was transpiring in the world and I did a deep like YouTube dive, right? Because I was like, this is something that I should be familiar with, right? And it was really interesting to see our show address it.
Speaker 4:
[39:42] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[39:42] Because there's this innocence that Beth has in like, someone to her eye who presents as a female calling her or whatnot and Tess always being like, yo, how many times do I gotta tell you? Alex is a they, not a her. And I want to shout out the writers and this whole arc because not everyone who doesn't get on board immediately is trying to be disrespectful.
Speaker 4:
[40:07] Exactly.
Speaker 1:
[40:09] Right? Sometimes it just takes a minute.
Speaker 4:
[40:11] It's a new concept, yes, to sort of wrap your brain around for Beth. It's a new concept.
Speaker 1:
[40:15] Exactly, right?
Speaker 2:
[40:15] But of course, Mama Z points out it's not that hard.
Speaker 1:
[40:17] It's not that hard.
Speaker 4:
[40:18] Not that hard.
Speaker 1:
[40:18] She's like, I've been in school for a while. Yeah, and Beth is like, thank you. Everything is easy for you, I'm sure. Before we get to this dinner that's going to happen. Malik comes to the crib. He comes and he has a little conversation with Deja, and she's like, what's going on? How are we doing? She's like, I need to talk to your dad. Is that okay? Where is he? She's like, oh, okay. I guess you go. He's on his porch. Yeah, you're here for my dad now. Malik needs some advice. Randall loves, he's like, bro, I got all these women in the house. This is my shit. Let's effing go. And he's like, what is it about? Is it a career? Is it academics? Is it women trouble? You date my daughter, better not be about no women. He's like, actually it's about my daughter. He's like, oh, okay. He's like perked up his ears. He wasn't expecting it. Turns out that Jennifer, who is the birth mother for his daughter, wants to be involved with her life again. And he said it was complicated because originally her parents just wanted to put the baby up for adoption. We were going to be sort of on the outside of it. My parents put a squash to that. This is, I'm raising the baby. And I figured you might have a unique perspective over what you've gone through in terms of which way to go. He's like, look, man, every situation is different. So there's no like one thing fits all. But if I had an opportunity to have known my birth parents, I think it would have saved me a lot of time in therapy.
Speaker 2:
[41:47] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[41:48] Right. So he's like, OK.
Speaker 2:
[41:49] I was in it for two episodes.
Speaker 1:
[41:51] Yeah, for two whole episodes.
Speaker 2:
[41:52] You should have saved me.
Speaker 1:
[41:53] I went to Louisiana and everything. It was a big deal. So now we're at the dinner table. And food is looking good.
Speaker 4:
[42:01] Oh, and she's pulled out all the stops.
Speaker 1:
[42:03] Pulled out all the stops.
Speaker 4:
[42:04] She was hand grinding the spices.
Speaker 1:
[42:06] Yeah, she's like, I just hand-grinded the whole stuff.
Speaker 4:
[42:08] And the wedding china is out.
Speaker 1:
[42:11] Iron the napkins and everything. And mom, the first thing she says-
Speaker 2:
[42:14] Do people still get wedding china? I didn't get any wedding china. You do china?
Speaker 1:
[42:18] We got china.
Speaker 2:
[42:19] You got china?
Speaker 1:
[42:20] Well, the bird is old school. So those things, those touches, very important to her. So every Thanksgiving and Christmas, they come out. I don't know if they-
Speaker 2:
[42:30] You think it's still a southern thing?
Speaker 1:
[42:33] Maybe.
Speaker 2:
[42:33] Is it cultural?
Speaker 1:
[42:35] It might be.
Speaker 2:
[42:35] China?
Speaker 1:
[42:36] Because a lot of southern stuff is a lot of black stuff. You know what I'm saying? So those two things go to- Do you guys not break out China?
Speaker 2:
[42:41] No.
Speaker 4:
[42:42] We did growing up though.
Speaker 1:
[42:44] You did?
Speaker 4:
[42:44] We did have fancy China for holidays.
Speaker 2:
[42:48] Holiday plates. Yeah, like Christmas plates, yeah, I guess. Were they fancy?
Speaker 1:
[42:52] That counts.
Speaker 2:
[42:53] Yeah, they were fancy.
Speaker 4:
[42:54] I think that might be the-
Speaker 1:
[42:54] Even things from her grandmother that got passed down to folks. You know what I'm saying? So it's a big deal.
Speaker 4:
[43:00] That's cool.
Speaker 1:
[43:01] There is everybody at one point in time in the dinner pops on their phone, and Mama C says, well, at my school, we're not allowed to have our phones at the class or special events. Beth is like, yeah, right. That's why we have a new thing here. Everybody put your phone in, and they all put their phones in.
Speaker 4:
[43:18] Including Randall.
Speaker 1:
[43:19] Including. She's like, I'm a councilman. You know what I'm saying? But maybe not now. I put my phone in there too. Things are going relatively well. Then Malik, you guys let me know if I skipped anything. Malik's phone goes, he's like, can I check that? It might be about my daughter. And then it winds up coming out.
Speaker 2:
[43:38] Yeah, Malik and you keep making eye contact.
Speaker 4:
[43:41] And Deja's like, what is going on?
Speaker 1:
[43:43] Yeah, what's going on there? And then she sees the phones like, why are you getting so many texts from Jennifer, right? At the same time, I think Tess is getting texts from Alex. And then Beth is like, what does she want? She's like, yo, man, how many times I gotta tell you, ma, Alex is a they, right? Wines up coming out in the course of this whole thing that like, she's not, they're not just my friend, we're together. And then I think Malik winds up saying that like, Jennifer wants to be a part. And it's just...
Speaker 2:
[44:17] Things are falling apart.
Speaker 4:
[44:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another dinner just like falling apart.
Speaker 2:
[44:21] Yeah, but Tess also turns to Mama C and says, because Beth is trying to be like, I didn't know that you were... I didn't know that. And she's kind of a little flustered because she's been caught off guard. And Tess turns to Mama C and says, C, this is what I was telling you. This is how I said she would react.
Speaker 4:
[44:45] Inferring that she's talked to Carol, her grandma about it, but not her mom.
Speaker 1:
[44:50] That would... I can only imagine if Andrew Brown told something to his Gigi that he wouldn't tell to Ryan Michele, oh, that would be gutting.
Speaker 4:
[45:03] Guttin.
Speaker 1:
[45:04] Guttin. Yeah. Okay. What happens with the rest of the dinner?
Speaker 2:
[45:08] So, you don't remember?
Speaker 4:
[45:11] Got it. We'll pick it up from here. Yes, so Tess admits that she and Alex are a couple. Beth is sort of in the sense that she didn't know. Deja is upset about Malik and Jennifer and him confiding in Randall. The dinner just sort of falls apart from there. And Beth feels incredibly judged by her mom. Like, things are just not going well. Deja goes outside and finds Randall, is that what happens? And basically, it's just like, I have to admit, I'm worried about Malik and Jennifer and them liking each other again, and that this is only going to lead to them, like they liked each other so much that they made a baby. They had a baby together. So what would lead me to not believe that them spending more time together in this capacity would lead them to not end up together again? And she also says that she feels like Randall and Malik, he's taken his side, and he is supposed to be her day one. And he basically is like, forget it. I am always going to be on Team Deja. Like, no matter what doesn't, right, essentially? Yes.
Speaker 2:
[46:23] Yeah. And he says, sometimes you're so mature that sometimes I forget that you're a 15 year old girl who's in love for the first time.
Speaker 4:
[46:30] Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's hard to remember that sometimes. And then it kind of ends with him saying, like, can we go on her Instagram and like, look at pictures of, and you do some funny, you're like, Jennifer, like.
Speaker 2:
[46:44] Not duck, not duck lift with the filter.
Speaker 5:
[46:47] Not duck filter, Jennifer.
Speaker 4:
[46:49] It's so Sterling, I would love it. I was like cackling, I had to watch it twice, actually.
Speaker 2:
[46:53] Meanwhile, Beth, Beth is upstairs, she's followed her mom out of the room because mom has said, I'll go pack my bags.
Speaker 4:
[46:59] Essentially, cause she's just sort of like, you make me flustered when you're here and she kind of loses her shit on her mom.
Speaker 2:
[47:04] Says, well, then I'll go pack my bags. And she goes upstairs.
Speaker 1:
[47:09] Just shout out, we had Felicia Rashad on our show.
Speaker 2:
[47:11] Yeah, it's nuts. Every time I see it.
Speaker 4:
[47:13] It's insane.
Speaker 1:
[47:14] She's just so, like everything that she, she's so sharp and just like.
Speaker 4:
[47:19] She's sharp and effortless.
Speaker 1:
[47:21] Yes.
Speaker 4:
[47:22] At the same time, it is such a magic trick.
Speaker 2:
[47:25] And every time you see her, you're like, why isn't this show about her? Yeah. Like, like.
Speaker 4:
[47:30] I want more.
Speaker 2:
[47:30] She should have more to say.
Speaker 3:
[47:32] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[47:32] And more to do.
Speaker 2:
[47:33] And more to do.
Speaker 3:
[47:34] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[47:35] So good, so good, so good.
Speaker 8:
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Speaker 6:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 2:
[49:03] But Beth follows her upstairs. Yeah. And essentially while she's packing, it's like apologizes for raising her voice. I shouldn't have done that. But it kind of doubles down on like, I feel judged by you all the time at every turn. And her mom essentially points out that she is envious of.
Speaker 1:
[49:31] Got a full house here.
Speaker 2:
[49:32] Got a full house. You want to know what my house is like?
Speaker 4:
[49:34] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[49:34] It's very quiet.
Speaker 4:
[49:36] Yeah. She's like, I know what time it is during the day by the traffic patterns.
Speaker 2:
[49:41] By the traffic patterns.
Speaker 4:
[49:42] And I come here and like just the loud chaos of kids and crushes and being needed, like all of that really. It's like, yes, she's rules, she has her sort of strictness, but she just like that's why she stays. That's why she doesn't want to leave.
Speaker 1:
[50:02] We forget.
Speaker 4:
[50:03] We forget. And the episode essentially ends with Beth coming out to the porch where Randall is with his basil plant.
Speaker 2:
[50:12] With a brand new cooler full of beer.
Speaker 4:
[50:13] With a brand new cooler full of IPAs for him. And he's like, oh, well, thank you so much. And she kind of lets the cat out of the bag that like, by the way, my mom is going to be staying with us. She says indefinitely.
Speaker 2:
[50:25] Your family treats our house like a Ramada Inn. So my mom is going to stay here for as long as she wants. Okay, bye.
Speaker 4:
[50:30] Yeah, it's like, it's my turn now. Bye.
Speaker 8:
[50:32] I remember this.
Speaker 1:
[50:33] I remember this very well.
Speaker 4:
[50:34] And she just sort of like cutely walks out.
Speaker 2:
[50:36] Leaves you on the porch with your beer.
Speaker 1:
[50:38] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[50:38] But also, you can't argue that.
Speaker 1:
[50:40] No, you can't. You can't. I've had plenty of family members in the crib. Yeah. I get it. It's all good.
Speaker 4:
[50:48] That's that. And I would say the only other little couplet to address is the Kevin and Madison, what how this episode ends. Once Kate and Toby leave, they have a little conversation about this idea of like, you know what, my family now is our family, is you, is Franny and Nicky, and I have to let go of this dream of the compound. That's clearly not going to happen. But like I mentioned earlier in the episode how he's like, I just always thought my family was going to consist of like my mom and dad and brother and sister and I like living together forever. And like, which I'm curious if you guys felt this, like the need of like a boundary, right? With your family of origin versus like your family that you're creating. You know, where it's sort of like, you know, Taylor and I talk about this and it hasn't like come up in like a really profound way yet, but like the starting of your own family traditions, the obligation you feel of like going to visit other family for Christmas. When is it like, when do you start those traditions of like, no, people can come to us or we just do it by ourselves and maybe we go after the holidays or something like whatever that picture sort of starts to look like for you. I think Kevin is coming to this realization of like, I have to let go of my preconceived notions of what my life and what my definition of family was going to be with this new definition of family.
Speaker 2:
[52:31] Because it looks different.
Speaker 4:
[52:32] Because it looks different and it is different.
Speaker 2:
[52:34] We just had that over the holidays. My parents, more my mom wanted to do our Christmas Eve tradition that we did growing up. We would come home from church. We would have hot chocolate and we would get to open one gift from this certain relative who would send kind of wacky gifts every year. And I'm like, we're not doing that.
Speaker 4:
[53:02] That's not what we want to do this year.
Speaker 2:
[53:05] And now what we do is we go over to Rose's house on Christmas Eve and have dinner there with the extended family. And that's our chance to get together with the extended family. That's what we do now. And our kids don't drink hot chocolate at eight o'clock at night.
Speaker 4:
[53:23] Before they go to bed.
Speaker 2:
[53:23] They're five years old. You know what I mean? Like, we got to get them to sleep and we don't have a gift.
Speaker 4:
[53:29] So Santa can come.
Speaker 2:
[53:30] Yeah, so a friend of a friend. Can I still have 14 things to build with you? But yeah, it's like, it's interesting. People want to hold on to these traditions, but it's like, also let's preserve that. That was for us.
Speaker 7:
[53:43] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[53:46] That doesn't get to be for everybody. Yeah. That's what we did.
Speaker 1:
[53:50] There's something that, like what you were saying with Kevin, in my family or between Ryan, Michelle, and Sterling Brown, for the first five, six, seven years of marriage, I would refer to home as St. Louis. And eventually she'd be like, you know St. Louis isn't your home? I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, this is your home. Yeah. And I was kind of like, oh, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Like me going to St. Louis is visiting my family, right? But where my wife and children are is my home. Right. And we would get, because you guys don't have quite the same geographic boundaries. Your family's still in Florida, Mandy, but you also have family out here as well. You got Sac town. Like geographically, they're all gone. They're all away. So we would get mad stressful going back to St. Louis for every Christmas or whatnot. But then she's from St. Louis too. So having to see like two different families, you know, I was like, how about we see your family for Thanksgiving is how we do it. And then we'd see my family for Christmas. And she's like, I feel bad being in St. Louis and not seeing my family.
Speaker 2:
[55:01] Yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 1:
[55:02] So ultimately, now as of the past two years, I think we've been in LA and folks will come to us. And we get a chance to establish what's ours.
Speaker 2:
[55:13] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[55:14] And we get to share.
Speaker 4:
[55:15] It is important. And we're seeing Kevin sort of like really kind of think through that long term. And before that, we are interrupted by the very end of the episode, which is.
Speaker 2:
[55:30] Knock, knock, knock.
Speaker 4:
[55:31] Uncle Nicky at the door. He's come to Los Angeles.
Speaker 2:
[55:35] And he says, you mean to tell me you only named one of your kids after your favorite uncle?
Speaker 4:
[55:42] And that's it.
Speaker 2:
[55:43] Smash cut to end of episode.
Speaker 4:
[55:46] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[55:46] It's a good episode.
Speaker 4:
[55:47] It's a great episode.
Speaker 1:
[55:48] It's good stuff, man.
Speaker 4:
[55:49] I think we have my favorite segment of the show. Is this your favorite?
Speaker 1:
[55:53] Do you enjoy it?
Speaker 4:
[55:54] Well, look, we did this during our live show. We've done it a couple of times on the pod. Our Hot Takes segment.
Speaker 2:
[56:00] Hot Takes.
Speaker 4:
[56:01] So if you want to hear some real scorchers, you got to stay tuned.
Speaker 2:
[56:05] Yeah. All right.
Speaker 4:
[56:11] It is time. If you are a frequent listener to our pod, you know what's coming.
Speaker 1:
[56:17] We brought this segment out on stage during our live show and it was electric, so we couldn't wait to do it on the podcast again.
Speaker 2:
[56:24] That's right. Hot Takes. They're back.
Speaker 4:
[56:28] They are back.
Speaker 2:
[56:29] Bold opinions, possibly controversial feelings. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3:
[56:34] Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 4:
[56:35] So, email from Stephanie. The middle big three, Mackenzie, Parker and Lonnie, should have been in the penultimate episode of the series, The Train. I understand that they were growing up, but there are a couple of scenes where Rebecca sees her children in each phase of their lives on the train and they should have been a part of it too.
Speaker 1:
[56:51] I understand what they're saying. That's a hot take, but it's also, you got to get Walt off the island. They look so different, right? And they would have been like the age that the teenagers would have been, you know what I'm saying, at that time?
Speaker 4:
[57:03] Yeah, and I feel like Logan and Niles and Hannah looked closer to the way that they were in the beginning of the series, that you're right, it would have felt too weird, like, what, these kids are almost the same age as each other.
Speaker 1:
[57:18] Mackenzie's a giant.
Speaker 4:
[57:19] She's so tall.
Speaker 1:
[57:20] The two kids are like right below. But we understand what you mean. We understand what you mean. This is from Babylon. Yeah, hot take. It's weird to make your son's first name the same as your dead father. Rebecca, having to talk to Jack makes me sad sometimes.
Speaker 2:
[57:35] Make your son's first name.
Speaker 1:
[57:37] Are we talking about Katobe's?
Speaker 4:
[57:40] Yeah, I was like...
Speaker 1:
[57:41] I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[57:42] Interesting.
Speaker 1:
[57:43] I don't think it's that weird.
Speaker 4:
[57:44] It's not that weird. It actually feels pretty...
Speaker 1:
[57:46] It's sort of like, I find it comforting that like that person is still here. Like we still get to hear their name. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:
[57:54] Like that's right.
Speaker 1:
[57:54] That's how I feel about it.
Speaker 4:
[57:55] But different strokes.
Speaker 2:
[57:56] It would have been weird if she had made Miguel go by Jack. That would have been weird.
Speaker 1:
[58:01] Agreed.
Speaker 4:
[58:02] But naming her child Jack doesn't feel strange to me. That feels pretty...
Speaker 2:
[58:05] That is a hot take. I mean, it's a hot take.
Speaker 1:
[58:06] That's a hot take.
Speaker 2:
[58:07] All right, hot take from Ali S. The big three chant on the cabin steps after Rebecca's funeral in the finale felt very awkward and forced. I cringe every time.
Speaker 1:
[58:19] You can kiss my ass because that was one of my favorite things to do. Ali, and I say this with love. You can kiss my ass. Because. With love.
Speaker 7:
[58:28] Hot take. Hot take.
Speaker 1:
[58:30] Cringe. No, man. I felt like this was a sense of completion. You know what I mean? What it felt like to me, because this is a thought that I have as my mother is going through her own illness, what will happen to the branches of her children? Will they sort of like be disconnected from one another because the mom is sort of the thing that anchors and connects them together? I think that these three siblings were saying like, we're in it together forever. Like we will be a part of each other's life. And that chant was a declaration of that commitment to one another. I agree. That's my take. I appreciate your hot take. And I don't mean.
Speaker 2:
[59:12] They don't call them hot takes. Yeah, I don't mean it in a mean way.
Speaker 4:
[59:15] Yeah, they're not lukewarm tastes.
Speaker 1:
[59:16] Yeah, I don't mean it in a mean way, but respectfully. You can kiss my...
Speaker 2:
[59:19] I mean, maybe it wasn't the chanting, maybe it was just the acting.
Speaker 1:
[59:21] Maybe it was that.
Speaker 4:
[59:22] Okay. Oh, this seems spicy, guys, from Jade. Rebecca shouldn't have picked Jack.
Speaker 2:
[59:28] What?
Speaker 4:
[59:30] Jack is a great man, but the life he wanted for himself was drastically different from the life Rebecca always wanted. By being with Jack, Rebecca's dream slowly but surely got lost inside Jack's dream. Rebecca wanted to be a famous singer. Jack wanted a quiet, normal, family-centered life. Those two dreams cannot easily coexist. It can work under very specific circumstances, but usually what ends up happening is that one person has to shrink so the other can expand, especially when the dreams require opposite lifestyles. They were simply incompatible and blinded by love.
Speaker 1:
[60:02] That's the hottest take we've ever had.
Speaker 2:
[60:04] You know what?
Speaker 1:
[60:05] That's pretty, that's not a bad-
Speaker 2:
[60:06] But it is well thought out.
Speaker 1:
[60:07] That is very well thought out.
Speaker 2:
[60:08] Well-written.
Speaker 4:
[60:09] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[60:10] And she's not-
Speaker 4:
[60:11] Wrong. Wrong.
Speaker 1:
[60:13] No, she's not.
Speaker 2:
[60:16] Wow, we're all speechless.
Speaker 1:
[60:18] This is tough because she ain't lying. Go ahead.
Speaker 4:
[60:21] Can I explain how I always viewed it?
Speaker 1:
[60:23] Talk to us.
Speaker 4:
[60:24] Yes, that was Rebecca's dream. But ultimately, being with Jack, deciding to hunker down and have a family, her dream did slowly shift and morph into like actually this is something I maybe never saw for myself, like coming to fruition in this way, but I love this person so deeply and I love his dream. And his dream kind of became my dream. That's not to say that my dream ever died completely. As evidenced by it sort of reemerging later in life. When like circumstances did change and the kids got older and opportunities sort of presented themselves.
Speaker 1:
[61:05] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[61:06] I feel like for the most part, she's not wrong, but everyone's circumstances are so different.
Speaker 2:
[61:11] It's also like what you're describing is what? In a world where everyone gets exactly what they want all the time.
Speaker 1:
[61:20] Sure. That never happens.
Speaker 4:
[61:21] That's just not possible.
Speaker 1:
[61:21] You say that never happens.
Speaker 2:
[61:23] It's a realistic thing.
Speaker 1:
[61:24] It is.
Speaker 2:
[61:24] It happens, I would say probably more often than not.
Speaker 1:
[61:27] But I would say from, I'm not going to speak from a woman's perspective, but from what has occurred that women frequently feel that they lose themselves inside of a marriage and only get defined primarily in the relationship to their husband and in relationship to their children.
Speaker 2:
[61:45] First couples therapy session Rachel and I had before we got married, the therapist asked us each what we were most afraid of in marriage. And that is what Rachel said. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[61:53] Losing herself.
Speaker 2:
[61:54] That I will lose myself in this couple show.
Speaker 1:
[61:56] Beth Pearson said the same thing.
Speaker 4:
[61:58] Can I also say for Rebecca, you know, when she really put herself on the line and was told that she quite frankly wasn't good enough for a record deal, I wouldn't say that that like completely squashed every bit of her dream. But I think it kind of she had to level with herself. Like, okay, maybe this isn't I'm not as good as I thought I was. Maybe this isn't in the cards for me in the way that I dreamed or imagined. Her first acknowledgement of that was looking at Jack and saying, let's go home and going back to Pittsburgh with him. You know what I mean? So it's like, I think before Jack and maybe at the beginning of Jack, like this was this dream. And it wasn't solely being with him that like killed it or shifted it in some way. It really was being told like, I don't know if this is for you lady, that I think allowed her to sort of reframe, okay, well, what do I want my life to be? If this isn't-
Speaker 1:
[63:02] I hear you. Yeah, in terms of your own arc.
Speaker 4:
[63:05] In my own arc and explaining that to myself.
Speaker 2:
[63:07] And the flip of this is, are you supposed to abandon every other good thing in your life? Or are you supposed to ignore other people's dreams for your own? Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is the same thing that Kate runs into, which is like, you didn't get the job because you're not good enough. Like, you're a good singer. But in this case, like, just because your dream didn't work out doesn't mean that you were wronged.
Speaker 1:
[63:40] It just didn't work out. I will also say this, and Jade used sort of like to be on her side, because my wife has told me this, and I've heard this from other women, is that men usually don't lack in confidence even if they don't have great ability, where women with great ability frequently lack in confidence in a very interesting way. Like when people from the outside look at like incredibly capable women, they oftentimes don't see themselves in that same way. And dudes who are cool or great, but they think they're awesome or worthy or it's their right to go out and have their dreams be met and fulfilled. Like I feel like this is a very woman-specific take that deserves merit. It's a merited take.
Speaker 4:
[64:27] Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:
[64:28] Yeah. Jade, you good take.
Speaker 4:
[64:29] Good. Good take. Good hot take.
Speaker 2:
[64:31] Warm take.
Speaker 1:
[64:31] I got this one. Hot take from Brit Picks. Hot take. It was a missed opportunity not to include Shawna in Deja's life even if only by phone call as the series went on. It's a hot take. We did include her to a certain extent. Yeah. Right. But then people get jobs.
Speaker 2:
[64:52] You know, you're trying to tie up storylines.
Speaker 1:
[64:54] Yeah. Availability. Sometimes. People aren't available.
Speaker 2:
[64:57] There was a worldwide pandemic. What do you want us to do?
Speaker 1:
[65:00] Yeah. She got hot.
Speaker 2:
[65:01] Hot take. I loved the COVID story line.
Speaker 1:
[65:05] Hey. All right.
Speaker 2:
[65:06] These will be the stories we think back on and share with our kids, but we have season five of This Is Us to prove it.
Speaker 1:
[65:14] I think so. It's a nice little time capsule.
Speaker 2:
[65:16] Exactly what we were talking about last time.
Speaker 4:
[65:17] I have appreciated it as a time capsule.
Speaker 2:
[65:18] That's from at Collie.
Speaker 7:
[65:21] Collie.
Speaker 2:
[65:23] Yeah. Good take.
Speaker 4:
[65:24] Okay, Catherine. Catherine P.
Speaker 2:
[65:26] Hot take.
Speaker 4:
[65:26] This Is Us does not feel like it was set in Pittsburgh. Not once is a yin's dropped in the whole show, and it's weirdly flat. Pittsburgh is many things, but flat is not one of them.
Speaker 2:
[65:37] This is true.
Speaker 1:
[65:39] Pittsburgh is very hilly.
Speaker 4:
[65:41] It's so beautiful there. I love Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1:
[65:43] Blame Fogelman, because we don't know all of the stuff that we should have probably known. I lived in New Jersey and in Philadelphia, so I think I was okay.
Speaker 2:
[65:53] Yeah. Yins, do they also say John?
Speaker 1:
[65:57] John is over a lot of places.
Speaker 2:
[66:00] Hand me that John there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[66:01] That's a few different places.
Speaker 4:
[66:03] Hand me that what?
Speaker 2:
[66:04] John. J-A-W-N. It's like a thing.
Speaker 4:
[66:11] Hand me that John.
Speaker 2:
[66:11] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[66:12] What's up with that John?
Speaker 2:
[66:13] Yeah. But Yins is- Specific to Pittsburgh. It's really a good- That's a good- Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[66:19] That comes from somebody from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 4:
[66:21] Yeah, of course, Catherine. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1:
[66:23] You got it.
Speaker 2:
[66:23] It's a lesser known y'all.
Speaker 4:
[66:25] This is a fiery hot take.
Speaker 1:
[66:26] You got this one?
Speaker 4:
[66:27] No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:
[66:29] Fiery hot take from Seyfray. I know y'all call him Nasty Randall, but I think going to Howard would have been better instead of staying close to home. He would have struggled less with his identity and still maintained a healthy relationship with his family. Beth still needed to be there though. So hot take. My wife called him Nasty Randall. She's the first person to call him Nasty Randall because he was hooking up with all his TAs and everything. There's something about being, and it doesn't happen for black people with great frequency in this country where you get a chance to feel like you are part of the majority. Yeah. Right? Where you're not navigating primarily white spaces and you're giving head nods because like, hey, there's another brother here. I see you, bro. But when everybody's a brother, you can't give head nods to everybody because you're just doing that.
Speaker 2:
[67:17] You're whiplash.
Speaker 1:
[67:18] So I completely and totally understand what you're saying. If Beth were there and he had that opportunity, it wouldn't have been bad. I think Randall himself is the person who chose. I think his mother would have loved for him to go.
Speaker 2:
[67:32] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[67:33] She never would have asked him to give that up.
Speaker 2:
[67:35] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[67:37] Randall's savior complex need to be of service was the thing that he took that away from himself. Yeah. So yeah, understand the take. Good one.
Speaker 2:
[67:47] Hot take. We should have seen the fallout between Rebecca and Shelly. We don't see them interact after they get divorced, and that's especially odd after Jack's death. That would be the time when Rebecca needs her friend the most.
Speaker 1:
[68:01] We just didn't have a lot of Shelly at all.
Speaker 4:
[68:03] We didn't have a lot of Shelly at all. These, the Pearsons?
Speaker 2:
[68:05] Not enough Shelly.
Speaker 4:
[68:07] I love when, we didn't have a lot of friends on the show.
Speaker 2:
[68:10] TV families don't.
Speaker 1:
[68:11] No, they don't.
Speaker 2:
[68:12] We don't have the time. We got 42 minutes.
Speaker 1:
[68:14] Yeah, and we got to interact with each other.
Speaker 4:
[68:18] I don't disagree with that take.
Speaker 2:
[68:20] Yeah, you'll notice there aren't a lot of friends on TV.
Speaker 4:
[68:22] That take, we got a what if Jack survived the fire episode, but we also should have seen a what if Rebecca died in the fire episode too. Oof, okay, well.
Speaker 1:
[68:33] That's an interesting take. That would have been an interesting sort of thing to explore because our lot, it just would have been a different show.
Speaker 4:
[68:42] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[68:43] You know what I'm saying? Like being raised by a guy who does, what were the sandwiches that Jack made for his kids?
Speaker 4:
[68:48] The corn sandwiches.
Speaker 1:
[68:49] We would have been deeply malnourished.
Speaker 2:
[68:51] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[68:52] You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:
[68:53] Like, this is like saying, hot take, I want to see a different show.
Speaker 6:
[68:59] A totally different show.
Speaker 2:
[69:00] A totally different show.
Speaker 4:
[69:02] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[69:04] It's a good take. It's an interesting thought.
Speaker 4:
[69:05] That's it. That's all our hot takes, you guys.
Speaker 1:
[69:09] They come with good hot takes.
Speaker 4:
[69:10] Yeah. These were solid. We love this segment. Keep sending them in whenever we beckon you to send us them, because it is so much fun. This was a great episode, guys. Five, ten. We're officially past.
Speaker 1:
[69:24] Past the halfway mark of season five.
Speaker 4:
[69:26] The halfway mark of season five.
Speaker 1:
[69:28] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[69:29] Keep helping us grow the show. I know it feels like we've been doing this forever, but please keep continuing to like and subscribe and sharing episodes.
Speaker 4:
[69:35] Let us carry this through to the end.
Speaker 2:
[69:38] There's some big changes coming up maybe in the near future, and we want to keep growing the show. We're trying to figure out when we're done with episodes to watch.
Speaker 1:
[69:48] Yeah. What do we do next?
Speaker 4:
[69:49] What do we do? Do we continue doing something all together?
Speaker 2:
[69:51] What's us after us?
Speaker 4:
[69:52] I can't imagine not seeing you guys now with some regularity.
Speaker 2:
[69:56] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[69:56] We'll figure it out. If you guys have some ideas for how the show would continue post.
Speaker 4:
[69:59] Yeah. Let us know.
Speaker 1:
[70:01] Let us know. We're open to ideas in the meantime and between times. Mandy.
Speaker 4:
[70:06] No.
Speaker 1:
[70:07] Chris.
Speaker 4:
[70:07] You say it.
Speaker 1:
[70:09] That Was Us. That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.