transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:06] Hey man.
Speaker 2:
[00:07] Hi Hayden, my little precious fruit loop. How are you?
Speaker 1:
[00:10] Precious fruit loop, like the breakfast.
Speaker 2:
[00:13] Breakfast cereal, American breakfast cereal. What do you think of that?
Speaker 1:
[00:17] Yeah, I don't love it. I don't love it, it doesn't feel personal. It doesn't feel that creative. You've gone with foods before.
Speaker 2:
[00:29] Well, you know what is personal? I know that you love cheese, is that right? Cheese, cheese, cheese.
Speaker 1:
[00:37] Do I love cheese? God, David, I have night cheeses every night. I don't know, I can't stop it. I want to actually lose a little bit of weight, but I can't stop eating my night cheeses. About 10 PM every night, I get the cheese out of my fridge, and I start chopping it up. I had maybe eight slices of cheese last night. And you know what? I'm not sure that I dream, like everyone says they get cheese dreams. I think that maybe it's just incorporating itself into my consciousness. Like I'm sort of living in a constant state of cheese hallucination now. So was your question whether I like cheese? If anything, a little too much.
Speaker 2:
[01:20] Well, look, you're going to be delighted to know that the episode today is about cheese heads. Do you know what a cheese head is?
Speaker 1:
[01:26] Yeah. Yeah. It's a guy with cheese on his head. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[01:32] Partly true. Partly true. Does it conjure up any other images?
Speaker 1:
[01:36] Oh, wait. The Green Bay Packers, right? So they're the cheese heads, right? And they're in Wisconsin. And they, why is this? What is America? So it's a football team, but it's somehow really interlinked with the cheese world. And they all go with cheese on their heads. So that's a thing in America. I tell you what, it's a unique place over there. You're doing some pretty wacky stuff, bringing down the global oil market for God knows what reason. For some reason, I know about the Strait of Hormuz now, which is everything I've learned about that place is against my will. So thanks for that. But also cheese.
Speaker 2:
[02:14] I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, when I first heard the term cheese head, a lot of images came to mind, mainly just people with heads made of cheese. I've since come to learn that cheese heads are what Hayden just said, supporters of the Green Bay Packers, enhanced by the fact they love wearing cheese-shaped foam hats. Americans also like to call people from Wisconsin cheese heads just in general, because it's a huge producer of dairy. So in this episode, I will investigate cheese by traveling to the capital of Wisconsin and the capital of cheese, Madison. And I go to a very important event, the World Championship Cheese Contest. It's a lot of Cs. So prepare, as they say, to cut the cheese. That means farting, Rob. You like that? Because this is the Cheese Heads episode.
Speaker 3:
[03:22] Cheese.
Speaker 2:
[03:23] Cheese.
Speaker 3:
[03:24] I have beef to pick with this topic in general.
Speaker 2:
[03:27] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[03:28] Cheese heads. But.
Speaker 2:
[03:29] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[03:30] Cheese.
Speaker 2:
[03:31] I mean, I'm with Hayden.
Speaker 3:
[03:32] Where do you stand with cheese?
Speaker 2:
[03:32] I love cheese.
Speaker 3:
[03:33] I do too.
Speaker 2:
[03:34] Um, I'm not, I mean, Hayden is a big fan of night cheese, which is just regular cheese, but eating at night.
Speaker 3:
[03:39] I know about night cheese.
Speaker 2:
[03:40] You know about night cheese? Do you partake?
Speaker 3:
[03:42] I do, partake in...
Speaker 2:
[03:45] What's your ritual?
Speaker 3:
[03:46] Uh, I mean, it's similar to his. Like, there's...
Speaker 2:
[03:49] You open that fridge?
Speaker 3:
[03:50] It's a late night snack.
Speaker 2:
[03:51] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[03:51] It's... Cubed cheese.
Speaker 2:
[03:54] How many, um... Ah, say that. Cubes. What do you mean?
Speaker 3:
[03:57] Cubed. Cubed. Either you buy it with the bowl and it's already cubed, or you get a block and you chop it up into cubes.
Speaker 2:
[04:04] I'm more of a...
Speaker 4:
[04:05] I'm not doing the slice...
Speaker 2:
[04:06] .slice guy. I will slice.
Speaker 3:
[04:08] You're buying, like, sandwich cheese?
Speaker 2:
[04:10] Uh, I'll have sandwich cheese.
Speaker 3:
[04:12] But are you making sandwiches ever?
Speaker 2:
[04:14] Uh, no. I'll just eat the cheese on its own.
Speaker 3:
[04:15] So you're buying it sliced for sandwiches, but not to make sandwiches.
Speaker 2:
[04:19] I just like that particular flavor of cheese.
Speaker 3:
[04:21] Uh, I mean, that's not a flavor.
Speaker 2:
[04:24] Oh, no. I'm talking about different things. So I'm talking about that horrific cheese that comes in little plastic wraps.
Speaker 3:
[04:30] Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[04:31] I like that.
Speaker 3:
[04:32] The Kraft cheese.
Speaker 2:
[04:33] And I like slicing a bit of blue cheese or a bit of brie, and popping that in my mouth, sometimes on a cracker.
Speaker 3:
[04:39] The thing I've run into that's not great is, I'm the only one in my house that likes cheese. Cause I've got a lactose intolerant wife.
Speaker 2:
[04:51] She hates cheese. She can't have it.
Speaker 3:
[04:53] She loves cheese, but she can't have it. And both the boys have like a weird texture thing with cheese. I think she's subconsciously planted this in their heads from a young age.
Speaker 2:
[05:06] Right.
Speaker 3:
[05:07] Which I've been fighting it.
Speaker 2:
[05:09] But you haven't gotten around it.
Speaker 3:
[05:10] No. They both hate cheese so much. Even fake cheese.
Speaker 2:
[05:15] Really?
Speaker 3:
[05:16] Well, Vinnie doesn't eat anything. He like only eats snacks. So, okay. There's still hope for him.
Speaker 2:
[05:23] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[05:24] But Calvin like won't eat vegan cheese on a pizza. Nothing. No cheese on pizza.
Speaker 2:
[05:29] So it's just you.
Speaker 3:
[05:30] Just me.
Speaker 2:
[05:30] Just you. Just a man alone eating cheese at the tabletop.
Speaker 3:
[05:34] Sometimes good though, because no one's gonna eat my cheese.
Speaker 2:
[05:37] At all. And do you have a favorite, particular favorite?
Speaker 3:
[05:42] I mean, I like a pepper jack cheese, a Havarti cheese, a H cheddar cheese.
Speaker 2:
[05:48] You mentioned earlier cheese cubes.
Speaker 3:
[05:51] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[05:51] And I'm scared to say this, but I'm gonna say anyway, I feel they're not as big in New Zealand as they are in America. The cubes of cheese.
Speaker 3:
[06:00] Wait, this is just how you cut it. You get blocks of cheese.
Speaker 2:
[06:02] No, I've seen them and you can buy like in America, I've seen like big packets of pre-cubed cheese. That's not what you're talking about?
Speaker 3:
[06:10] It is, but it may be an American thing where like, you can buy watermelon that's pre-cut and you can buy carrots that are pre-cut.
Speaker 2:
[06:18] You like preparing things. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[06:20] Yeah. But normally I'll buy a block of cheese and I'll cut it into cubes.
Speaker 2:
[06:24] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[06:25] Which you could cut it into slices too, with the same cheese. So it's literally just the preparation of said cheese. The cheese.
Speaker 2:
[06:33] What shape it comes in, essentially.
Speaker 3:
[06:35] Yeah. I mean, it comes in like a big round thing normally, that then they cut-
Speaker 2:
[06:38] We get into that.
Speaker 3:
[06:39] Yeah. Wheel of cheese.
Speaker 2:
[06:40] Wheels of cheese.
Speaker 3:
[06:41] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[06:41] My God. I've never seen the size of the wheels that I see in today's episode.
Speaker 3:
[06:46] But you, I mean, this episode's not cheese, it's cheese heads.
Speaker 2:
[06:50] It's cheese heads.
Speaker 3:
[06:50] Which, do you know what you've stepped in with this?
Speaker 2:
[06:54] Not really. Look, so the meat of this episode, I go to a cheese contest.
Speaker 3:
[06:59] The meat or the cheese? What?
Speaker 2:
[07:01] Don't understand that reference. Did I say meat?
Speaker 3:
[07:03] You said the meat of the episode, but we're talking about cheese, not meat.
Speaker 2:
[07:05] Oh, that was like a funny thing you just did. Yeah. So no, I'm talking about cheese, although in Wisconsin, obviously, cows and meat are also a big thing. But no, I go to a cheese contest. So the cheese heads thing is still a bit of a mystery beyond, they love it in sport in Wisconsin, and they wear a big cheese hat.
Speaker 3:
[07:25] Yeah. So it's the Green Bay Packers, who are the rival team to the Chicago Bears.
Speaker 2:
[07:32] So they're your enemy.
Speaker 3:
[07:33] The NFC North rival team. Wow.
Speaker 2:
[07:38] You hate them.
Speaker 3:
[07:38] Yeah, I do not.
Speaker 2:
[07:39] You're beef.
Speaker 3:
[07:40] I hate, yeah, beef and cheese.
Speaker 2:
[07:44] My God.
Speaker 3:
[07:44] It's the football team I hate the most.
Speaker 2:
[07:46] It's cool that they wear big cheese hats.
Speaker 3:
[07:48] No, it's not.
Speaker 2:
[07:49] That's fun.
Speaker 3:
[07:49] No, it's not.
Speaker 2:
[07:50] It's like fun. I feel like sometimes Americans take that sport too seriously. Here's a team that just puts on a big silly hat and goes, hey, we're having fun. It's all a bit silly. We can have a laugh. We don't take ourselves as seriously as those people in Chicago and we're going to have a good time.
Speaker 3:
[08:08] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[08:09] That's what it says to me.
Speaker 3:
[08:10] This episode also feels a little bit like a trap because I'm not normally-
Speaker 2:
[08:14] Oh, you're very positive.
Speaker 3:
[08:15] Just fully negative about something.
Speaker 2:
[08:17] No, I'm trying to get you to be negative, but you never are. You're too happy.
Speaker 3:
[08:19] But you found the topic.
Speaker 2:
[08:21] I found the place. Have you been to Madison before, which is where this episode takes place?
Speaker 3:
[08:27] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[08:27] I love Madison.
Speaker 3:
[08:28] Yeah, Madison's are cool.
Speaker 2:
[08:29] Madison's beautiful.
Speaker 3:
[08:30] Sydney, Milwaukee is cool. Green Bay, the worst. One of the worst football team. I mean, the problem is the Bears until last season hadn't been good until 85.
Speaker 2:
[08:43] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[08:44] And the Packers have been good a lot.
Speaker 2:
[08:46] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[08:47] So that that always fuels a sports rivalry.
Speaker 2:
[08:50] Of course, because they're better than your team.
Speaker 3:
[08:52] Not right now, though. It's just fun.
Speaker 2:
[08:55] Just to be clear.
Speaker 3:
[08:56] Just to be clear.
Speaker 2:
[08:57] Madison, what's to be about Madison? Got to the airport and all the trinkets were lots of cows.
Speaker 3:
[09:07] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[09:09] Lots of cheese.
Speaker 3:
[09:10] Do you get the relation cows and cheese? Cows and cheese?
Speaker 2:
[09:14] I learned. Just for this episode. We don't have cows and cheese in New Zealand, so I'm really learning a lot. And the thing that kind of jumped out at me, which is probably not surprising to everyone else, but a lot of like, we're here to get boozed, like comical t-shirts. So I'm very proud of that drinking culture. And not just drinking, not just like we have craft beer, but we like to get absolutely shitfaced.
Speaker 3:
[09:41] That's, yeah, I mean-
Speaker 2:
[09:42] And that was interesting to me.
Speaker 3:
[09:43] Wisconsin and Chicago are like cousins, it feels like.
Speaker 2:
[09:47] Ah, they have that, there's like a similarity between the two.
Speaker 3:
[09:50] Yeah, there's a very similar vibe.
Speaker 2:
[09:53] If you ever got sick of going back to Chicago, you could go to there instead.
Speaker 3:
[09:59] Uh, probably not.
Speaker 2:
[10:00] You could go and see a game.
Speaker 3:
[10:02] I would not do that.
Speaker 2:
[10:03] Potentially pop on a cheesy hat.
Speaker 3:
[10:05] There is a lot of interesting stuff. Green Bay, I do know, has an interesting back story. So I'm just going to, even though I dislike them as a team.
Speaker 2:
[10:16] You're going to be a bigger man than that.
Speaker 3:
[10:18] I know Green Bay is not like a big city. It's not Chicago. It's not like New York.
Speaker 2:
[10:25] It's a bay.
Speaker 3:
[10:26] Yeah. So they were a meat packing town team. So the team began as a community effort sponsored by the Indian Packing Company, practicing adjacent to a meat packing plant. They're the smallest city in pro sports.
Speaker 2:
[10:41] That's cute.
Speaker 3:
[10:42] Population then was 31,000.
Speaker 2:
[10:45] They're punching above their weight.
Speaker 3:
[10:46] Yes. Smaller than six other cities in Wisconsin. And instead they got the football team.
Speaker 2:
[10:53] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[10:55] Still today, they're the smallest major league professional sport market in North America. And they're the only franchise that's owned and sustained by the fans.
Speaker 2:
[11:06] I like that.
Speaker 3:
[11:07] In 1922, they organized a public stock sale and raised enough capital to create the Green Bay Football Corporation, which enabled fans to purchase shares in the team.
Speaker 2:
[11:19] I love this.
Speaker 3:
[11:20] So the community owns the team. So there is like...
Speaker 2:
[11:22] This is so cool.
Speaker 3:
[11:23] Green Bay Packer fans are diehard fans.
Speaker 2:
[11:26] So they literally own them.
Speaker 3:
[11:28] Yes. They've won the most championships of any NFL team. 13.
Speaker 2:
[11:32] The more you talk about them, the more I think they're probably my team.
Speaker 3:
[11:35] No, don't say that.
Speaker 2:
[11:37] I think they are. Like, they're the underdog. They're tiny. The people own them. They have cheese on their head.
Speaker 3:
[11:42] It's a cool backstory. I get it, David.
Speaker 2:
[11:44] It's really good. Like, it's really, really good.
Speaker 3:
[11:48] If I didn't have the Chicago Bears, I would agree that it's a cool story behind the team.
Speaker 2:
[11:55] And an alternate timeline.
Speaker 3:
[11:56] Instead, I had to deal with Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. And, I mean, you know about Brett Favre, right?
Speaker 2:
[12:03] No idea.
Speaker 3:
[12:04] And you know about Aaron Rodgers?
Speaker 2:
[12:05] No, I don't know who these people are.
Speaker 3:
[12:07] They were the, they were two, like, dynasty quarterbacks.
Speaker 2:
[12:09] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[12:10] Aaron Rodgers went, like, search controversial Aaron Rodgers. Look up, look up some stuff on Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2:
[12:17] Aaron Rodgers. Highly polarized figure due to several controversies. Sounds like he's an anti-vaxxer for a while. He claimed to be immunized, but definitely wasn't vaccinated. Big into promoting various conspiracy theories. He has some different public feuds and strained team relationships. Yes. Does that all track?
Speaker 3:
[12:40] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[12:41] He sounds unpleasant.
Speaker 3:
[12:43] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[12:44] An unpleasant individual.
Speaker 3:
[12:46] Yeah, but I will say, like, most players at that level are, like Michael Jordan is not known for being, like, the nicest guy. Same with Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 2:
[12:56] What team is Aaron Rodgers with?
Speaker 3:
[12:58] He was on the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 2:
[12:59] He was on the Packers.
Speaker 3:
[13:00] Yeah. That's why we're talking about him.
Speaker 2:
[13:02] I thought I was hoping he was with Chicago.
Speaker 3:
[13:05] Why would I bring up a-
Speaker 2:
[13:06] I don't know. Let me think. What else stood out to me?
Speaker 3:
[13:09] This was all part of You Took a Trip to Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:
[13:11] I took a trip to Wisconsin. We're going to do a few episodes at a Wisconsin cheeseheads being the beginning.
Speaker 3:
[13:17] And when you say a few, two.
Speaker 2:
[13:18] I mean two.
Speaker 3:
[13:18] Including this one.
Speaker 2:
[13:19] Yeah, it's going to be two.
Speaker 3:
[13:21] It's going to be two.
Speaker 2:
[13:22] It's a small place.
Speaker 3:
[13:23] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[13:23] But I loved it. The only other thing I remembered when I was in Madison is that I had been to Milwaukee before. And of course, that's where Jeffrey Dahmer is from.
Speaker 3:
[13:33] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[13:34] And he would, and that ties into the boozing culture, because he would pick up drunk people from gay bars and then kill them.
Speaker 3:
[13:42] Yeah, there's a cool music venue called The Rave in Eagles Ballroom in Milwaukee.
Speaker 2:
[13:51] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[13:51] That like a lot of bands. It's multiple venues in this big building.
Speaker 2:
[13:55] Cool.
Speaker 3:
[13:56] Where like multiple shows are going. There's at least three venues within the building.
Speaker 2:
[14:00] So good for music.
Speaker 3:
[14:02] But I think across the street is one of the hotels related to Dahmer.
Speaker 2:
[14:09] Yeah. Really bleak story, but iconic. I went on a walking tour around the different areas where he had done various naughty things. And by naughty, I mean a lot of murder. Also, the guy from Happy Days is from Milwaukee. And there is a Fonz statue there. And I love the Fonz. It's a big part of my childhood. Big part of Americana. Okay. Before we get to the cheese competition, what else? Madison, it's the capital. They've got a giant capital building. I sent you photos. I was in a hotel across from the state capital.
Speaker 3:
[14:46] Yeah. We did a Patreon from there.
Speaker 2:
[14:48] It was insane. I looked at, I thought I'd fucked up the flights and was in DC or something. America knows how to do a capital building. This building was amazing.
Speaker 3:
[14:59] We have since visited multiple capital buildings.
Speaker 2:
[15:01] We have.
Speaker 3:
[15:02] You visited Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:
[15:03] I love capital buildings in America now.
Speaker 3:
[15:07] We get to a city, you're like, where's the capital building?
Speaker 2:
[15:10] Show me that building. They're so over the top.
Speaker 3:
[15:13] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[15:14] They're amazing. Madison also has one of 10 remaining free zoos in North America. We don't love zoos. We love a free zoo. I think that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:
[15:26] Chicago has a free zoo. The Lincoln Park Zoo named after your, your favorite band was named after.
Speaker 2:
[15:36] I do love Lincoln Park. They also have a Veterans Museum in Madison, which I went into, which was, it was just an interesting vibe. It was like a lot of like life-size dioramas of different battles throughout America's history. I'm not laughing at that. I'm laughing at the fact that Rob's microphone just broke. And it was very, I just, I'm a big fan of a big diorama, and about deeply American, it was like battles through the ages. I would say worth a visit.
Speaker 3:
[16:07] I mean, you remember the dioramas though in Chicago, right? We went to the Field Museum and they had all those really cool ones.
Speaker 2:
[16:14] Oh yeah, there were some cool ones there.
Speaker 3:
[16:15] And Colorado, there were a lot of really-
Speaker 2:
[16:17] Oh my god, America. You do Capitol Buildings well and dioramas really well. But yeah, let's get into the World Championship Cheese Contest. You can salivate. And just the thought of all this cheese, Rob. So much cheese. What a time to be alive. Getting to the World Championship Cheese Contest, out in beautiful Madison, Wisconsin. The first thing I noticed about Madison is that their state Capitol Building is huge. To the point that when I woke up, I thought I'd gotten my tribal all messed up and it ended up in Washington instead. The second thing I noticed is that cheese is everywhere. It's unavoidable. Stumbling out of my hotel, I pretty much fell into a cheese store immediately.
Speaker 5:
[17:00] My name is Will. I am a cheese monger here at Formagination, specifically the front of house. Lead, the hospitality lead, if you will. I sample cheeses. I take care of those cheeses. I'm what's called a monger. And when we talk about mongers, we're more than just like order takers, right? I have to know about the cheese. I have to be able to tell you the story. I have to take care of it too, right? Like, we never let our cheeses sit for more than like six or seven days. In that wrap, we always take it off, scrape it, and make sure it's all fresh and ready for you.
Speaker 2:
[17:28] Will has been working in this much-loved Adders and Cheese store for two and a half years. The store itself has been here for nearly two decades.
Speaker 5:
[17:36] So we're the cheese capital of the United States. We are literally across the street from the capital building of the capital of the, you know what I mean? Madison has, out of all the places I've lived, probably has the strongest community, especially the cheese world too. Cheese people are really cool people.
Speaker 2:
[17:53] What are cheese people? What defines a cheese person? What are they like?
Speaker 5:
[17:56] I don't know. That's how my mama raised me, I guess, is how it goes. But cheese people, they're very humble. Sometimes they can be quiet, but they are wicked smart. I know for a fact if I walked into a creamery right now, my head would be spinning. I like to say I'm a storyteller. I know enough of the science to get by, right? But man, yeah, there's some smart people. Kind is one word I would use to describe Wisconsin cheese people.
Speaker 2:
[18:18] Keep hearing about the squeakiness of cheese being important. Can you explain that to me a little bit, what that represents?
Speaker 5:
[18:23] So with cheese curds specifically, that's what we think of when we think of squeaky cheese. It really is just like the freshness of that cheese. I think it has to do with the calcium on your teeth, actually, that rub against the proteins in the cheese. And that's what gives it that squeak. And usually it's going to be squeaky for like that first one or two days. But if you ever get a bag of cheese curds that say they squeak on the front and they don't, pop it in the microwave, I'm not joking, less than two seconds. And it just brings back the moisture and you're good to go.
Speaker 2:
[18:49] With that important cheese info in my head, I set off for the competition. It was a cold day in Madison. I had my jacket and gloves on. The convention center dwarfed by a large frozen lake, Monona, looming behind it. The competition is the world's premier technical cheese butter and yogurt competition, hosted here in Wisconsin for the last 69 years. I wasn't here for the butter or yogurt. I was here for the cheese. And as I picked up my official media lanyard and entered the competition floor, I was surrounded by it.
Speaker 6:
[19:29] I'm Grace Atherton. I'm the Communications Director for Wisconsin Cheese Makers Association, which hosts the World Championship Cheese Contest.
Speaker 2:
[19:36] Now, we are currently in a sort of a large room with a lot of tables, a lot of cheese. I can smell the cheese in the air. So this is primarily a competition.
Speaker 6:
[19:46] It is primarily a competition, although I will say it's the friendliest competition I personally have ever witnessed. There's so much camaraderie here.
Speaker 2:
[19:55] So it's not getting feral, it's not getting backstabby, it's not getting angry.
Speaker 6:
[19:58] We don't typically have, you know, intense bitter rivalries or anything like that. It's pretty friendly, pretty well-behaved around here. What you're looking at is tables of judges working in pairs to evaluate the 3,375 entries we have in this competition. And they are wearing kind of the industry standard, which is a white lab coat.
Speaker 2:
[20:22] To me, it looks like a room full of scientists all wearing different hats. The white hats are judges, the red hats sort of oversee the judges, and the tan hats are the bee team, volunteers making sure everything is running smoothly, as smooth as a smooth piece of cheese. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Grow Therapy. Now, it's spring right now, which means it's kind of like a spring cleaning kind of time. I love cleaning the house, makes me feel good. But you know what? You can also clean your brain, and that's where Grow Therapy comes in.
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[22:04] Yeah. It's made you a much better human.
Speaker 2:
[22:09] Well played. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans and sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan.
Speaker 3:
[22:22] Visit growtherapy.com/birdtoday to get started. That's growtherapy.com/bird.
Speaker 2:
[22:28] growtherapy.com/bird. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Support for Flightless Bird is brought to you by Bombas. Now, the springtime thaw is finally here. Flowers are blooming, days are longer. We're saying yes to more plans and finally getting outside. We're running, we're walking, we're moving again. And it's the perfect time to upgrade your everyday go tos with Bombas.
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 2:
[24:01] That's bombas.com/bird, code bird at checkout. Have noticed the temperature in here. It's quite cool. Is that to do with the cheese?
Speaker 6:
[24:14] It is. Absolutely. When you've got this many dairy products in a room, you got to keep it pretty cold.
Speaker 2:
[24:18] Yeah. Is the smell ever an issue when it comes to cheese? Because I smell a little bit of cheese now. It's pleasant. Does it become more overpowering as the day goes on?
Speaker 6:
[24:28] You know, it typically stays about what it is right now. You can smell in the room as you're here. It smells like there's a lot of cheese around. But like you said, it's not overpowering. It's not unpleasant. Certainly, the judges who are evaluating categories like mere ripened cheeses, if you've got a Limburger class.
Speaker 2:
[24:47] Grace told me it was really important I talk to one of the most respected cheese judges here. A legend in these halls, a woman called Cathy, whose main job is with Whole Foods, a giant chain with 500 stores all over America, 100% owned by Amazon. How deeply American is that?
Speaker 7:
[25:05] Hi, everyone. I'm Cathy Strange and I am with Whole Foods Market. I am the ambassador of food culture. Cheese is a destination department. We have been a part of not only the American cheese movement, but artisan cheese production around the world for now over 40 years. So we're very excited to represent. We have the highest number of certified cheese professionals in the world, in our stores.
Speaker 2:
[25:35] Now, when I think of cheese, I tend to think Switzerland. I wondered how the US fitted into the world of cheese.
Speaker 7:
[25:41] We make all different styles of cheeses in the United States, and we have a rich history, even though our history isn't very long. But since the beginning, we've been making cheese and raising herds of animals, and really honoring the land that the animals are a part of, and truly reflective here in Wisconsin. But, you know, cheese is four ingredients, and four ingredients has the opportunity to make everything you see in front of you, David.
Speaker 2:
[26:09] So I'm deeply embarrassed now. What are the four ingredients in cheese? This is terrible. I don't know this.
Speaker 7:
[26:14] Obviously milk. So, milk, culture, salt for preservative and enzymes to coagulate.
Speaker 2:
[26:23] What's your favorite cheese? You just have one cheese for the rest of your life. What are you picking?
Speaker 7:
[26:28] Well, it is quite like a child, your favorite cheese today, and it's like whatever the best tasting cheese is. I have the opportunity today to taste around 70 cheeses, and I'll have one at the end of the day. But every day, it's a different one. So we're going into spring, so I like fresh cheeses.
Speaker 2:
[26:46] She sidestep that one like a pro. And fair enough, she's not here to talk to me. She's here to judge. And there's a lot of cheese to judge, over 3,000 different ones, 3,375 to be precise. How do you cleanse the palate between the tastings?
Speaker 7:
[27:03] It depends on the style of cheese. So really, the more complex, you would have to think about cleansing more often. I use acidity either of fruits, just to be able, not eating or ingesting, so you get the sweetness, but just cleansing the tongue or a plain saltine to take the butter fats off. And of course, a lot of water. You've gotta hydrate.
Speaker 2:
[27:24] To be clear, Kathy doesn't have to try all those 3,375 cheeses. She's one of many judges here.
Speaker 8:
[27:31] My name is Ben Smith. I work for a company called Hillmar Cheese in Hillmar, California. We're actually one of the world's largest cheese manufacturers. We make a million and a half pounds of cheese every day at that one factory. Then we have a second factory that also does the same. And then we just built a new factory in Kansas that does about two thirds of that.
Speaker 2:
[27:51] That's mind boggling.
Speaker 8:
[27:52] It is, it is. But the world eats a lot of cheese. We export a lot, but a lot stays domestic. We don't have our own brand in the marketplace either though. So you can't find our name on a piece of cheese anywhere. We sell to other companies that then slice, cut, shred, whatever it is, or it goes to McDonald's, Taco Bell, those kind of places. So if you've had cheese in the US, you've had our cheese before.
Speaker 2:
[28:14] And what's your role here today? You're judging a certain type of cheese?
Speaker 8:
[28:18] Yes. So we're judging today, we're just judging one category, and that's sharp cheddar. We define sharp cheddar as being aged between 6 and 12 months. So you're looking for very specific flavors in there, aged cheddar notes, savory notes, brothy notes, beefy, umami, those kind of flavors. We're wanting to avoid strong bitter flavors and things like that, any unclean, grassy flavors and things like that.
Speaker 2:
[28:45] And how many in that category that you're judging?
Speaker 8:
[28:47] We've got just about 70 entries.
Speaker 2:
[28:50] What are the differences really in that?
Speaker 8:
[28:52] There's actually quite a wide range of differences in that. In the US alone, we have regional cheddar descriptors. We have West Coast cheddar, which is fruity and beefy. We have Wisconsin cheddar, Midwest cheddar, which is very acidic, strong acid flavor. And in the Northeast, you've got like Cabot's or your Vermont cheddars that are almost sulfur-y. So even in the US., cheddar runs a wide gamut. But now this is the world's contest, so we've got cheddar from the UK., we've got cheddar from Ireland, we've got cheddar from Germany. Those have their own flavor profiles. So we've got a wide range of flavors to play with here and to expect. So it's even though it is 70 entries in one category, it's a wide category.
Speaker 2:
[29:33] With so much cheese, I ask him if there's ever a wrong way to eat cheese.
Speaker 8:
[29:38] No, because cheese is personal. It's whatever you like. So like cheese on apple pie. That's an American thing that is very strange. A slice of cheddar cheese melted on top of your hot apple pie.
Speaker 2:
[29:50] Holy shit, that works?
Speaker 8:
[29:51] Oh my God. It blows your mind. Trust me. Try it. It's really good.
Speaker 2:
[29:55] Okay. So you right now, as we've been talking, have been holding a plate of four shafts of different cheese. What is happening here?
Speaker 8:
[30:02] So we call these plugs. So we have a trier. That's our tool that extracts the plug from the block.
Speaker 2:
[30:07] Ben shows me how he judges by trying these little cheese shafts one by one.
Speaker 8:
[30:13] You're looking for that savory meaty brothy right through the middle, right? And it's not finishing bitter. It's cleaning up. I'm not getting off notes or anything like that.
Speaker 2:
[30:21] So the aftertaste is part of it as well.
Speaker 8:
[30:23] Certainly. Yeah. Everything that you're going to experience as you eat the cheese, that's what we're judging on here.
Speaker 2:
[30:28] I quickly learned that I'd probably be a bad judge. All the cheese Ben hands me, I enjoy. I forget what the previous cheese tasted like, overcome by the current cheese being swirled around in my gob.
Speaker 8:
[30:40] So now try the white one there. Try that again.
Speaker 2:
[30:44] Everything I put in my mouth, I'm like, this is delicious.
Speaker 8:
[30:47] See, to me, this one, I like the least. This is bitter. I'm getting off notes right up front. It's not cleaning up, it's lingering. These have already been scored and entered. So your comments won't influence our integrity.
Speaker 2:
[31:02] I step away from the judges and go and meet one of the B-team tan hats I'd heard about, Steve. He's one of the elder statesmen of cheese here, and earlier, I'd watched him and a few other guys cutting these giant wheels of cheese. Like so giant, you couldn't lift them on your own.
Speaker 4:
[31:19] The art of cutting a wheel of Swiss straight is a challenge for all of us. So it's kind of a little competition besides judging. We have our own little competition on who can cut the straightest Swiss cheese. I was here at 5.30 and we unload the trucks and get everything staged in the back. There's a lot to this.
Speaker 2:
[31:36] For Steve, cheese isn't just something he likes or loves. It's his entire reality. If anyone is a pure cheesehead, it's this man.
Speaker 4:
[31:46] No, I was born in it. I was probably back in the factory 25, 30 hours after I was born, you know. So I've been in a cheese factory my whole life. Grew up in it. Went to school. My dad wanted me to come back and buy in the business, so I've been in it ever since.
Speaker 2:
[32:05] Generations of cheeseheads, including his daughter Shaya, who's also here with them. There's no escaping.
Speaker 6:
[32:11] No, there's no escaping it whatsoever. I tried once and came back.
Speaker 9:
[32:17] It is never ending. My dad's always creating something new.
Speaker 6:
[32:19] He always has big ideas.
Speaker 2:
[32:21] Noting that this is the world of cheese champs, I wonder how the US will fare.
Speaker 4:
[32:26] Well, we got a lot of talented cheese makers. There are certain cheeses that are a little tougher to make here in the States, but competitively wise, we'll be right there with everybody. Depending on the cheesy Italians, they're hard to compete. The Swiss here and the Swiss cheese, they're hard to compete with. The Emmentaler is a European cheese. Not a lot of it made here in the US, but there's such a broad spectrum of cheese here.
Speaker 2:
[32:55] Wisconsin had the best cheese in America, do you reckon?
Speaker 4:
[32:58] Yes, absolutely. It comes down to milk and it comes down to water and it comes down to the environment. Well, the Midwest, we have the most limestone, we have the best water, we have the climate change, of course, but in the summertime, the crops are great. It's just a good area for dairy. And it's Wisconsin, people are pretty much down to earth. I mean, I travel around a little bit, it's that way everywhere, but Wisconsin, people come here, they come here for the cheese, and they come here because of us, I guess.
Speaker 2:
[33:35] Steve tells me about a three year long master cheese maker program at the local university that churns out cheese champions.
Speaker 4:
[33:43] There's so much technical things going on in the cheese industry, you know, cultures, everything. And you got to study and you got to learn them what they do, how they affect cheese, what creates the best flavor. Cheese making is not just time and material, it's a passion. That's what makes a good cheese maker. It's a passion. If you don't have the passion, your cheese will be mediocre.
Speaker 2:
[34:07] Do you ever get sick of cheese?
Speaker 4:
[34:09] I eat cheese every day. I always eat a little cheese for lunch. Probably not the best for me, but I do it anyway. And I enjoy it. I enjoy it.
Speaker 2:
[34:20] Eat cheese every day is the kind of advice I can get behind. And I did eat a lot of cheese over the weekend. As I ate, judges judged. It was quiet, dedicated work. Sometimes I stopped and just stared at them as they carefully placed these precious cheeses in their mouths and chewed. As for the big winners, the big three, the world champs were from the Netherlands and got a score of 98.68, winning for a cheese called the Beemster Royale Grand Cru. The first runner-up was from Switzerland with 98.45. And the second runner-up, also from Switzerland, 98.41. I had a wonderful day, and I learned that I'll probably die without ever tasting all the cheese produced on planet Earth. But I can try. I can try. And I got a pretty good start at Madison, Wisconsin, home of the cheesehead. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Shopify. Now, if you're starting your own business, it can be really intimidating and really lonely, thanks to all the hats you suddenly have to wear when you have no idea what the heck you're doing.
Speaker 3:
[35:41] Yeah, you gotta put on a cheese head, you gotta put on...
Speaker 2:
[35:44] Oh, good reference.
Speaker 3:
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Speaker 3:
[36:53] Go to shopify.com/bird. That's shopify.com/bird.
Speaker 9:
[36:59] K-pop demon hunters, Saja Boys breakfast meal, and Huntrix meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
Speaker 5:
[37:13] It is an honor to share.
Speaker 9:
[37:15] No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor.
Speaker 3:
[37:19] No, really, stop.
Speaker 9:
[37:21] You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.
Speaker 7:
[37:26] Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.
Speaker 5:
[37:27] Participate in McDonald's while supplies last.
Speaker 10:
[37:29] Predator Badlands, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.
Speaker 9:
[37:35] Here, you're not the Predator.
Speaker 10:
[37:37] You're the prey. Prey, prey, prey, prey, prey, prey. Critics are saying it's epic, stunning, and breathtaking. Many have come here.
Speaker 9:
[37:52] None have survived.
Speaker 10:
[37:54] Predator Badlands, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus, rated PG-13.
Speaker 3:
[38:04] It's a sport that she said to play.
Speaker 2:
[38:08] Americans love throwing footballs to each other, don't they? Do you want to try?
Speaker 10:
[38:11] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[38:12] It was like the room.
Speaker 2:
[38:13] Yeah. I've got a fluffy football here that I got from Ontario High from the Prom episode of Flightless Bird.
Speaker 3:
[38:20] Homecoming.
Speaker 2:
[38:21] Prom? Homecoming. Same thing.
Speaker 3:
[38:23] Homecoming. Not the same thing. Yeah. A little creepier if you went to a Prom.
Speaker 2:
[38:28] What did you think of all that cheese?
Speaker 3:
[38:30] I mean, it made me want to have been at that competition.
Speaker 2:
[38:32] It was pretty amazing.
Speaker 3:
[38:33] How much cheese did you end up trying?
Speaker 2:
[38:35] I had, so in the middle of the room, they had these four giant tables that were just full of different cheeses. And I would just wander over and eat them.
Speaker 3:
[38:45] And is this open to the public?
Speaker 2:
[38:47] Yeah. So they had a day where the public could come in and watch the judges see what was going on. It was actually really cool. Like there's this giant competition and you could just like come and watch.
Speaker 3:
[38:57] And eat cheese though?
Speaker 2:
[38:58] And eat cheese.
Speaker 3:
[38:59] Cause that's a lot of cheese.
Speaker 2:
[39:01] I would note that this room was so, so you're like around the corner of the room, around the sides, you had all the judges very seriously, like fenced off from the public doing their thing. Middle of the room, the public could come in and have like a little bite. So there'd be a little, what do you call them? A little toothpick.
Speaker 3:
[39:17] But does that mean everyone?
Speaker 2:
[39:20] Yeah, so you'd get your fresh toothpick.
Speaker 3:
[39:22] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[39:22] You'd jab it into a little cube of cheese. You'd eat it.
Speaker 3:
[39:25] But you've seen people using their like hands and grabbing.
Speaker 2:
[39:28] I didn't see anyone do that.
Speaker 3:
[39:29] There's like a grocery store too, like.
Speaker 2:
[39:32] People, I got to say the people, it wasn't like the feralness of LA. People in Madison are like very, they care about each other. They're very worried about like touching other people's food. And so everyone is following the rules. It was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3:
[39:47] Did you get to try any of the winning cheeses?
Speaker 2:
[39:50] No.
Speaker 3:
[39:50] No.
Speaker 2:
[39:51] I didn't.
Speaker 3:
[39:51] You mentioned Switzerland.
Speaker 2:
[39:53] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[39:54] Is what you think of for cheese?
Speaker 2:
[39:55] My brain jumps to Switzerland. Is it just because of Swiss cheese?
Speaker 3:
[40:00] Is that your favorite cheese?
Speaker 2:
[40:01] Good question. No, I just have a deep knowledge of cheese. And I know that a lot of winning cheese comes from Switzerland. Like bullshit. The two of the cheeses that won, the big winners from Switzerland.
Speaker 3:
[40:14] Did you write the doc for this before or after you attended that and you knew that they won?
Speaker 2:
[40:19] No, I walked in there with a world of knowledge about everything. Had nothing to do with the fact that Swiss cheese is a thing. Had nothing to do with it. Just a deep knowledge of the world of competitive cheese.
Speaker 3:
[40:33] Have you had cheese curds prior to this? Did you have cheese curds there?
Speaker 2:
[40:36] I had one squeaky curd.
Speaker 3:
[40:39] Oh, cheese curds are really good, too.
Speaker 2:
[40:40] Yeah, I didn't realize until this trip that they were such a thing.
Speaker 3:
[40:45] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[40:45] But they're loved in this town. They're like worshiped like a god, the cheese curd.
Speaker 3:
[40:49] I mean, you can get like deep fried cheese curds, too.
Speaker 2:
[40:53] Oh my god.
Speaker 3:
[40:54] They're really good.
Speaker 2:
[40:55] Could you get those in... Where would I get a deep fried? You do it at home, I guess. Or do you like buy them from a place?
Speaker 3:
[41:02] You can get them at like grocery stores sometimes.
Speaker 2:
[41:06] Would you have that as a night cheese? A cheese curd?
Speaker 3:
[41:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[41:09] Natalie just hears squeaking coming from the kitchen. Like, what are you doing?
Speaker 3:
[41:13] Deep fried cheese curds is like a bar food at that point.
Speaker 2:
[41:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:
[41:19] But like you said, Wisconsin, Wisconsin people are a lot like Minnesota people, where they're just very polite and nice.
Speaker 2:
[41:27] Kind of to an almost sickly level.
Speaker 3:
[41:31] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[41:31] Like you're like, oh my god, like, what's the catch? Are you scamming me? And they're not. They're just kind and lovely.
Speaker 3:
[41:38] I will say, because Minnesota is above Wisconsin and then Chicago. I do feel like all three of the areas kind of share that, but the closer you get to Chicago is like, the gradient gets like a little more grisly.
Speaker 2:
[41:54] Start to get like, yeah, a little bit more combative and not just like-
Speaker 3:
[41:59] I think people in Chicago are very nice, too.
Speaker 2:
[42:02] But more abrupt.
Speaker 3:
[42:03] Yeah, but then you go to Boston and New York, and that's like continuing that path.
Speaker 2:
[42:10] Interesting. I do wonder like socially how that works. It's like accents across America, right? Like there's an evolution of that. But I like that there's this evolution of, I don't know the word, like niceness or-
Speaker 3:
[42:22] Personality.
Speaker 2:
[42:23] Personality.
Speaker 3:
[42:23] Creates and-
Speaker 2:
[42:24] Yeah. And then you get to LA and it's just like a melting pot of like shitheads with some nice people thrown in, you know?
Speaker 3:
[42:30] I mean, you get to LA and it's a lot of people that aren't from LA and you're dealing with just a combination of everyone.
Speaker 2:
[42:36] This is a good point. I like that idea though.
Speaker 3:
[42:39] I feel like you have a lot more New Yorkers from New York than you have people from California here.
Speaker 2:
[42:45] This is accurate. It is a, yeah. That's what makes California good.
Speaker 3:
[42:48] It's the same with like Chicago. There's a lot more people that are just born and raised in Chicago.
Speaker 2:
[42:52] What about Chicago?
Speaker 3:
[42:53] Well, there's the three majors.
Speaker 2:
[42:55] Do you have cheese in Chicago?
Speaker 3:
[42:56] We do have cheese.
Speaker 2:
[42:57] Do you have cheese?
Speaker 3:
[42:58] Do you have cheese in New Zealand?
Speaker 2:
[42:59] No. No, this is novel. It's a really novel thing to me here.
Speaker 3:
[43:03] I did also, have you heard about any cheese heists? Famous cheese heists? Maybe this needs to just be a bonus Patreon episode at some point, but cheese is the most stolen food on earth.
Speaker 2:
[43:16] This is incredible.
Speaker 3:
[43:17] Four percent of the world's cheese supply goes missing annually. It's the most stolen food on the planet.
Speaker 2:
[43:23] This is incredible.
Speaker 3:
[43:25] But not just shoplifters. Organized crime has gotten into cheese theft.
Speaker 2:
[43:32] I love that.
Speaker 3:
[43:32] 1928, the Brooklyn Cheese Bandits were busted after confessing to 25 robberies in a two-month period.
Speaker 2:
[43:40] Holy shit.
Speaker 3:
[43:40] They got the name not because they stole cheese, because they were robbing delis and eating cheese. They're...
Speaker 2:
[43:51] It's really good.
Speaker 3:
[43:52] The Italian Parmesan Gang of 2015.
Speaker 2:
[43:55] These names are so incredibly baller.
Speaker 3:
[43:58] This is not America, though, fortunately.
Speaker 2:
[44:01] It's okay.
Speaker 3:
[44:02] But 11 thieves who have spent two years stealing 2,039 wheels of Parmesan cheese worth $875,000.
Speaker 2:
[44:11] That is insane. Also, it makes sense, because you can wheel them away, right? They're a convenient shape to get out of there. Just roll them out the door.
Speaker 3:
[44:21] Um, this is a good one.
Speaker 2:
[44:22] Into the back of the van.
Speaker 3:
[44:23] According to the official governing body for Italian Parmesan makers, over $3 million in Parmesan is stolen in Italy every year. Um, this is, this is what I remember reading about. So, in early 2013, Bollica showed up at a Wisconsin cheese factory with forged paperwork, and tricked the owner into loading his truck with 21 tons of monster cheese worth $200,000.
Speaker 2:
[44:50] Holy shit.
Speaker 3:
[44:51] He then drove to New Jersey and tried to sell it at a rest stop.
Speaker 2:
[44:55] At a rest stop! It's like Matteo's matcha. Matcha out the corner.
Speaker 3:
[45:02] Uh, yeah, and then another Wisconsin cheese crime wave in 2016. They were hit with three high-profile cheese heists ranging from $46,000 to $90,000 worth of stolen cheese. Uh, the $90,000 one was all Parmesan cheese. So, we're learning Parmesan cheese is the hot commodity.
Speaker 2:
[45:23] Having to sell all of that is so stressful to me. Like, people don't want bulk cheese.
Speaker 3:
[45:30] I want bulk cheese.
Speaker 2:
[45:31] I'm sorry, you want bulk cheese. If you went to a truck stop and there was just like a van with like a lot of like quite cheap, but really good cheese, are you loading that into your car?
Speaker 3:
[45:44] No, I'm not. I'm not trusting a guy in a van with cheese. I think the cheese ice we're learning are similar to the like maple syrup ice in Canada.
Speaker 2:
[45:54] Yeah. I really like that it happens. I don't support crime, but I like creativity, and that's kind of incredible.
Speaker 3:
[46:01] Cheese.
Speaker 2:
[46:02] We love it. Madison loved you. I'd go back again. It did remind me a little bit of like a smaller New Zealand town. It felt like homely, lots of dye bars around. Student town, lots of people on the booze.
Speaker 3:
[46:15] Yeah, there's a college.
Speaker 2:
[46:16] It's a good, it's just a good vibe there. I like Madison, and a beautiful Capitol building, and a shit ton of cheese. Just cheesemongers on every other corner. Yeah. Loved it. Okay. Feedback to previous episodes. How do you feel about that, Robert? I feel great. Pinball Tom wrote in saying, in regards to puzzles, we had a Christmas tradition when I was about eight years old, we went to my grandparents to open presents. Being kids, we always pestered the eldest to start the present opening process, but we were given a task we had to complete first, we had to complete a puzzle. Over the years was the same puzzle, so we got pretty good at it while taking less than two hours in later years. Not a bad time. Two hours. Not the 30 minutes of our competitive puzzler, but close. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[47:05] Karen would be disappointed at two hours.
Speaker 2:
[47:07] Yeah. Karen would be like, come on, up your game. Kathy says, Rob, puzzle boards can slide under your coffee table or sofa. Get a puzzle board, Rob, will allow you to do puzzles anytime you want to do a puzzle. Note, though, if you've got a kitty cat, they'll enjoy sitting on your puzzle board all the time. It's very cute.
Speaker 3:
[47:28] A small dog that's kind of like a cat.
Speaker 2:
[47:30] I love your dog.
Speaker 3:
[47:32] I consider a puzzle board.
Speaker 2:
[47:33] Mona Lin says, thank you for the latest episode with Karen. I'm one of those people that speed puzzles. I train in everything, but I'm nowhere near as good as Karen. It's a big thing in New Zealand too. We have our nationals coming up on Saturday, the 25th of July in Auckland, New Zealand. Also, I'm catching up on old episodes. Rob referred to a herb, oregano, am I saying that right? Oregano?
Speaker 3:
[47:59] Oregano.
Speaker 2:
[47:59] Oregano.
Speaker 3:
[48:00] Oregano.
Speaker 2:
[48:02] Rob referred to it as a spice, but it's a herb. Not a spice. I just love... I don't know why I find this so funny.
Speaker 3:
[48:13] Well, I-
Speaker 2:
[48:13] It comes from the leafy part-
Speaker 3:
[48:15] Yeah, I can't explain.
Speaker 2:
[48:15] Of a plant. It's a herb.
Speaker 3:
[48:19] It can't, you can buy-
Speaker 2:
[48:20] If it comes from any other part, like the seed, the bark, the root, or the flower, it's a spice, you fucking idiot, Rob. I shouldn't say that. I thought this might interest you. Love, Monalyn.
Speaker 3:
[48:32] Yes. I know you can buy oregano leaves.
Speaker 2:
[48:36] Yep.
Speaker 3:
[48:37] And as a herb. But also it's in my spice rack too, as dried oregano.
Speaker 2:
[48:44] Interesting.
Speaker 3:
[48:45] But I mean, you can have dried herbs. You can have basil that's dried and in a shaker.
Speaker 2:
[48:54] And you always have a spice rack. You don't ever get a herb rack. Do you?
Speaker 3:
[48:59] No, you have like a herb drawer in the fridge though, for fresh herbs or like, we'll do the basil plant sometimes or mint.
Speaker 2:
[49:08] In my home, I have zero herbs or spices because I am, I don't cook.
Speaker 3:
[49:14] I like that we're competing. We're going back and forth with how we pronounce it. We're ignoring that the other one's saying it differently. It's good.
Speaker 2:
[49:25] So it should be.
Speaker 3:
[49:26] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[49:27] It's also the way, it's the way all New Zealanders say it.
Speaker 3:
[49:29] Whoever gets the last word, the last one that says herb wins.
Speaker 2:
[49:32] Herb. Okay. So, and said, Onward and thank you, Magdalene, for correcting Rob's heinous error.
Speaker 3:
[49:39] About herbs.
Speaker 2:
[49:42] How do you have it? Herbs.
Speaker 3:
[49:43] I said herbs.
Speaker 2:
[49:44] I know you did.
Speaker 3:
[49:45] I said it your way.
Speaker 2:
[49:47] And said, I'm finishing the Puzzles episode, and I thought you and the listeners might like to know about this genius business idea someone had. We rent puzzles. It's perfect for my 80-year-old mom who has all the time to complete them, but doesn't want a closet full of puzzles she has to purchase. She sends it back when she's done, and they ship out another one. Shout out, we should be sponsored by this company, shout out to Completing the Puzzle for helping my mom keep her mind sharp.
Speaker 3:
[50:15] I really liked that idea. I do feel like puzzles are one of those things that used aren't great.
Speaker 2:
[50:24] Disaster.
Speaker 3:
[50:25] Cause yeah, you do a puzzle two or three times.
Speaker 2:
[50:27] Pieces are gonna go, they're gonna get all tatted.
Speaker 3:
[50:30] Yeah. You get people's, like, skin cells, flaky skin in the box.
Speaker 2:
[50:35] Cheeky little toenail.
Speaker 3:
[50:37] Hair. Hair in there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[50:38] Oh, disgusting.
Speaker 3:
[50:39] You're like getting up in those pieces.
Speaker 2:
[50:41] The 20th person to have it.
Speaker 3:
[50:42] Exactly. There's like a layer of oil from the skin on each piece.
Speaker 2:
[50:47] Some people, Rob.
Speaker 3:
[50:48] I think we might have just lost Rob to have them as a sponsor.
Speaker 2:
[50:53] Completing the puzzle. Disgusting.
Speaker 3:
[50:57] Maybe they clean.
Speaker 2:
[50:59] Very happy. Your 80-year-old mom has endless puzzles. It kind of sounds like early Netflix.
Speaker 3:
[51:06] I thought of Netflix too.
Speaker 2:
[51:07] Post back the DVD. John says, I enjoyed your episode about Goosebumps and the legend that is RL. Stein. I live in Mr. Sine's hometown of Columbus, Ohio, where I am a season ticket holder for our major league soccer team, the Columbus Crew. Just last season, they unveiled a Goosebumps-themed jersey kit to honor the legendary author. The kit makes it into the regular rotation of the team. It's always a treat when they're sporting it. Thought you'd enjoy. Rob, I included that bit of feedback because it was sports-related.
Speaker 3:
[51:39] Sports.
Speaker 2:
[51:40] And I'm trying to cater more to you.
Speaker 3:
[51:42] Yeah, that's why you got a football.
Speaker 2:
[51:43] And that's why we've got this football here.
Speaker 3:
[51:44] They're just tossing back and forth.
Speaker 2:
[51:46] Sports, sports, sports.
Speaker 3:
[51:47] And that's why you named this cheese heads rather than cheese competition, which was actually what this episode was about.
Speaker 2:
[51:53] Exactly. I wanted to get your attention.
Speaker 3:
[51:55] Baton switch.
Speaker 2:
[51:56] It's a baton switch. Finally, Amy said, Hi David and Rob, I just want to let you know how happy and thankful I am that you made a follow up episode with Nick. By far, your first episode with him is my favorite podcast episode of all time. I distinctly remember listening to the episode while walking my dog on a great chilly quiet San Diego morning and just being so deeply moved. This is the episode, The Parasocial Listener, part two. After the episode ended, I just continued to walk in silence, stunned by what he's gone through and that he continues to go through. I just couldn't believe what a beautiful spirit he has despite everything that's going on. Listening to the episode was especially eye-opening for me because I had been going through a challenging time, but then listening to Nick quickly put my stuff in perspective. I'm really glad he got to explore New Zealand. It's one of my favorite places. The part that really gave me major chills was when you commented, that maybe in some twisted series of events, that his brain cancer is what saved him. Those moments and stories that make you think is the more of this existence than we think. I appreciate your dedication. You both have to this podcast and really wanted to share how meaningful that was. From leaf blowers to brain cancer, I truly enjoy every episode. Thank you for what you do. Thank you, Amy. Beautiful feedback. Thanks for listening to the show. If you have feedback, what's our email? Rob. flightlessbirdchat at gmail.com We are also on Patreon at patreon.com/flightlessbird.
Speaker 3:
[53:24] Yeah, we do a little bonus episode every week on there.
Speaker 2:
[53:27] We have extra little bits of joy.
Speaker 3:
[53:29] Listen, ad-free, watch ad-free if you want, our regular episodes.
Speaker 2:
[53:33] Yeah, if you want to support the show, completely optional. Regular episodes come out as pro-normal. But if you want to support the show, there is extra stuff on there. Next week, we have a part two from Wisconsin. What's it going to be? Is it going to be sport? Is it going to be booze? Is it going to be-
Speaker 3:
[53:52] The Dells?
Speaker 2:
[53:53] The Dells! It's not the Dells. We're going to go back for the Dells when it is summer. When I was there, the lakes were all frozen. It was fucking freezing and beautiful. I walked on one of the frozen lakes. It was beautiful. I loved it.
Speaker 3:
[54:10] My boys have been to the Dells a few times already. I have not gone with them, but whenever they go and visit my parents, they take a trip up to the Wisconsin Dells. So they've been two or three times at this point.
Speaker 2:
[54:22] Talked a lot with people in town when we weren't talking cheese, talked a lot about the Dells, and everyone had a story about the Dells. It's like their theme park. It's water.
Speaker 3:
[54:32] Except it's a whole town.
Speaker 2:
[54:33] It's a whole town.
Speaker 3:
[54:34] There's a Ripley's, believe it or not.
Speaker 2:
[54:35] What I didn't know is that they have, and maybe obvious, but it's winter there, often.
Speaker 3:
[54:42] Yeah, they have winter.
Speaker 2:
[54:43] They have indoor ones.
Speaker 3:
[54:44] Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[54:44] It doesn't need to be summer. You can just seal yourself in.
Speaker 3:
[54:48] Yeah, there's something a little gross about an indoor water park though.
Speaker 2:
[54:51] Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3:
[54:52] The like, hot mugginess of a-
Speaker 2:
[54:54] Oh my god, it's like being in the tropics.
Speaker 3:
[54:56] Steamy indoor-
Speaker 2:
[54:57] It's like being in a rainforest.
Speaker 3:
[54:59] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[55:00] I also like that some of the adults said that there's like areas so that you can leave your kids in the filth, and then like, adults have like a special area where they can just go and get boozed. It sounds amazing.
Speaker 3:
[55:11] I have not gone as an adult or someone that booses, so I don't-
Speaker 2:
[55:15] You and I-
Speaker 3:
[55:16] I don't know that part.
Speaker 2:
[55:17] Could go together one day. A day sealed in the delves. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3:
[55:24] See you next week.
Speaker 2:
[55:25] Bye bye.