transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Of the Law & Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2:
[00:04] We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies these episodes are based on.

Speaker 1:
[00:09] These are our stories.

Speaker 2:
[00:28] Yay, That's Messed Up An SVU Podcast. I'm Liza Treyger.

Speaker 1:
[00:32] And I'm Kara Klenk, and every week it's SVU episode recaps. It's true crime, deep dives, and it's interviews with people that are on the show. And sometimes it is. But then at Uptop, we just like to chit chat about what's going on in the world, life, love, and the pursuit of happiness.

Speaker 2:
[00:54] So I was so scared about my new laptop, you know? Like I just have so many fears and every time anything happens. So I didn't use it for, I would say, days. I just listened to music because I've been reading. So I finished all the books. I bought a new one today by the same author. I was sobbing on a bench this weekend, sobbing on a bench. This book made me cry. But anyways, but I got back into the laptop and I didn't realize how poorly I had been living. Like, you know, when you split the Google Chrome half page, half page, I had to do it two to three times. It wouldn't just do it. And so the fact that it just does it is like, wait, what? Like the clickety clacks feel good. Like everything is just kind of actually, yeah, it's been nice. It's been nice today.

Speaker 1:
[01:42] I love a new laptop. I feel like they just run. They run so well for the first few months you get one. And then it all starts going downhill. But we did last week on the pod this guy who had donated a sperm and had like a billion kids or whatever. And we did have a listener write us. I will not identify them, but they did say that they used to date this guy.

Speaker 2:
[02:05] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[02:06] And that him and his wife broke up a long time ago. They had one kid together and they broke up and she never got over the... The wife never got over the donor of it all. Yeah. The like being with somebody who's secretly the dad of like 75 kids. That's a lot. That's stressful. I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if true love could overcome that.

Speaker 2:
[02:31] Casey.

Speaker 1:
[02:32] Casey's making a face like yikes. Yeah. I mean, not that I'm saying men shouldn't donate sperm. I mean, I guess it's a good cause people need sperm, but dang, I don't know. I don't know. Most people I know that have, no, that's not true. I know people who have gotten sperm from people they know and from strangers. So from like from banks. So I don't fucking know what I would do if I met a guy that was like the love of my life and was like, guess what? I have 75 kids I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[03:01] I would rather someone have 75 kids they don't know than one kid they do know.

Speaker 1:
[03:10] You would never date someone with a kid?

Speaker 2:
[03:13] No, you know that about me.

Speaker 1:
[03:14] I feel like I've said that before. I feel like you would if it was like a 13 year old that was cool or something.

Speaker 2:
[03:22] No, we've talked, yeah, no. Why would I? Well, because if you're a good, I would want you to be a good parent and then I wouldn't, then I, I don't want the kid in my house, you know what I mean? But then if you're a deadbeat, that's like a very unattractive quality. Yeah. So like I would never be able to date a parent because you're either involved with your kid, which is not a life I want and I've never wanted.

Speaker 1:
[03:42] Which I don't want or you're not involved with your kid, which means you're bad.

Speaker 2:
[03:45] Which is the most unattractive thing I can imagine. I don't want children, so I want to be with someone who also doesn't want children. Like that makes sense to me.

Speaker 1:
[03:53] Right. That makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[03:56] Yeah, like I don't want it. Like if someone has a vasectomy, like that's hot. Or if they donated a bunch of sperm and don't care, like that makes sense to me too.

Speaker 1:
[04:06] Yeah. So you would be a perfect match for this guy probably, although he wanted kids, I guess, because he did have one of his own children. But the 75 kids he doesn't know, not a problem for you.

Speaker 2:
[04:18] No.

Speaker 1:
[04:18] No. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[04:20] Sperm donation doesn't bother me.

Speaker 1:
[04:23] No, no. Me neither. It doesn't bother me in general.

Speaker 2:
[04:26] You hate it.

Speaker 1:
[04:27] That's a lot of sperm. That's a lot. You know, like a lot of people are picking you. I feel like they need to retire your number at some point, you know, which I guess they do do, but not before 75 kids are born. And also, there's no, there's no, it's like police departments. There's no jurisdiction across the different states. So they're going to different places. Anyway.

Speaker 2:
[04:45] Also, shout out Ozzy Guillen. His number 13 was retired. The White Sox manager of the World Series winning team. And they told it to him on air and he cried. And the first thing he said was, where's my wife? Oh, so cute.

Speaker 1:
[05:01] That's nice.

Speaker 2:
[05:02] And his wife used to get her pussy waxed at the salon I worked at as a receptionist.

Speaker 1:
[05:07] Everything comes full circle. Everyone is connected. This world is a series of interconnected people.

Speaker 2:
[05:13] Oh my God. And today the Hudson Williams Peloton ad came out. Like, can you even believe it? You're not even on it.

Speaker 1:
[05:19] No, because I didn't know about it. What happened?

Speaker 2:
[05:21] And it behind the scenes and immediately, well, they like teased the video yesterday and it's just like hot and incredible. I mean, Peloton, whatever thirsty bitches and gay dudes are working at Peloton and objectifying the men throughout the years, God bless you. It's been a joy.

Speaker 1:
[05:36] The nude Maloney. And now what is Hudson doing?

Speaker 2:
[05:39] He's in a little, he's truly like dancing, working out, looking like come fuck me. And I knew the choreographer is going to be cool. And then it's a woman director. I just like really love everything that they're doing. I think like every choice they're doing is perfect. And every little commercial and everything they do is also a nod to the long game book. It's kind of crazy. Like there's so much meta within the ads, I feel. It's like it's we're losing our minds. But it is real. But he looks hot. He's on the treadmill. He's just like working out in this room and doing really cool choreo and dancing in a fun outfit. And his abs looking insane. Like the second season, they're going to look insane. It's going to be nuts. They look pretty insane.

Speaker 1:
[06:22] The first season, I mean, I know.

Speaker 2:
[06:24] But I don't know if you've been seeing them, but it's it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1:
[06:28] The bods. Oh, a lot of people were messaging.

Speaker 2:
[06:32] What are they mad at me? About Polly? Did the Polly community come full force? No, because we have cool listeners.

Speaker 1:
[06:38] You didn't actually get a lot of pushback on the bods. Well, some people were just like, people can be cool in Polly and not be dating and leaving their wives at home and doing all that, but it was no...

Speaker 2:
[06:50] It's truly the definition. You're leaving your life at home to go hang out with someone else.

Speaker 1:
[06:54] It was the Shane and Ilya look-alike contest that those two guys are dating.

Speaker 2:
[06:59] Yes, of course. It's like the best. The universe keeps expanding, you know?

Speaker 1:
[07:06] Yeah, these look-alike contests are so funny to me. I like when they show up. The people that are the look-alike subject show up.

Speaker 2:
[07:15] Yeah, but like, so they obviously made out hardcore at the contest and that was hot. But then they did an interview about their date and one of them, they're kind of dorks. They went on an eight-hour date and one of them was like, well, yeah, and then we ended up harmonizing. And the other one's like, I thought we weren't going to say anything about that. So it's really cute.

Speaker 1:
[07:32] They sang together? Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[07:34] And the other one's like, don't say that. And yeah, they were so cute. And then they went to a women's hockey game and then the actress who plays Svetlana was there and wore the jerseys and took photos with her. And so everyone's just kind of pumped for everyone. The fandom is really nice. I'm sure there's some psychopaths hidden in the corners. The girl, there's a girl who was making such good trailers and edits of Heated Rivalry that HBO hired her. And now she's an official trailer maker and does all their stuff.

Speaker 1:
[08:04] Oh, the dream, the dream.

Speaker 2:
[08:06] And we followed each other recently, so no big deal.

Speaker 1:
[08:09] Exciting. I would say you're probably in the upper echelon of the fandom, I would say.

Speaker 2:
[08:16] No, everyone's in the fandom. I don't know if you saw my story or not, but I think I'm going to do it more this year, but I read a book on my fire escape.

Speaker 1:
[08:23] Oh, that's fun.

Speaker 2:
[08:25] It was fun. I put a blanket out. I sat, I wore a hat. I need some block for sure. A lot of people commented. And yeah, I was unfortunately up till five in the morning. I've been reading all day, all night. I haven't slept. I've been researching since seven in the morning for our podcast. And I'm holding on by a thread. And then I had an hour between finishing research and us podcasting. And I rushed to the Barnes and Noble and bought another gay book.

Speaker 1:
[08:50] To buy another book.

Speaker 2:
[08:51] I need another book. I'm ready for more. I'm ready for more. I was reading it. I just like, I don't know what's happening, but this one was extra good. And it's in New York. I'm on his hair. I'm on his hair.

Speaker 1:
[09:02] I love a fire escape hang. Oh my gosh. I love it. I used to smell the stings on my sister's fire escape.

Speaker 2:
[09:08] No, but like just sitting out there. I don't know if I would have another person. Yeah, it's a little tough to get. I'm trying to think if I'd feel safe with two people being there, but hmm.

Speaker 1:
[09:18] Yeah, it would usually just be two of us max on my sisters, but I never had one in my own apartment, but I liked other people's.

Speaker 2:
[09:29] Wait, what's going on with Rosie's hair, like ponytail situation?

Speaker 1:
[09:33] Oh my God. So at her first game, where by the way, she scored two runs, that was mostly, she did well. She did really well. The parents were like, she's never played before. And I was like, no, she's never played. And they were like, she's doing good. So, but for a little while, she let me put her hair into the hole of the hat, which was a huge, a huge, but then she took it down. And the coach, I approached the coach and said, you know, if you feel like Rosie needs to put her hair up, you can absolutely tell her that she won't take it from me, but she'll take it from you. And he goes, yeah, I think I'm going to tell her for safety. And I go, yeah, thanks. So we got to work on it for next game.

Speaker 2:
[10:14] It's next weekend. Well, so, you know, my SoulCycle classes are popular. So to fit more people, she'll, like the teacher will be off the bike and let others, like people be on the podium that are really good to fit more people in. And the last podium girl was hair down the whole time.

Speaker 1:
[10:31] Oh, my God.

Speaker 2:
[10:32] So after class, I did approach her and I go, so what are we doing here? Like, how are you doing it? Hair down. And she goes, I fucking love it. She goes, I feel so cool. Like, she likes to whip it. Like, she felt awesome.

Speaker 1:
[10:42] You know, I wonder if she's a dancer because my I just talked to my friend about this, who I work out with all the time. And I was like, how do you have your hair down? Like, it really is so freaky to me. Like, I cannot have sweaty hair on the back of my neck. She goes, it's like a dance thing. It's like dancing. Like, when you're a dancer, because she's a big dancer, she's like, it's just a part of the, like the hairography is like part of it. You know, like, so maybe they've just trained themselves. It's not going to be me. I mean, I just went to the gym this morning and it was up as high as it could go on the top of my head. Like, I can't. I cannot have it back down there. But both my children just got haircuts. So we've been we've been trying to weed wax some of that hair away.

Speaker 2:
[11:20] Did you already sign up for summer camp? What's happening with that?

Speaker 1:
[11:23] Yes, they're going to camps. I'm up. I was up. I didn't have to do the full gauntlet that I did, like where the Taylor Swift Zoo Camp situation that I've had to do before. But because I'm I'm not going to be in LA really. But I had to wake up to get them into an East Coast summer camp at like five in the morning because, you know, their registration is three hours ahead. So, you know, they're in they're going to different camps. But like mostly just what are the East Coast camps? Well, one one in Connecticut, that's a farm camp that they did last year. I love that. They're doing the farm camp again. And then they're doing two weeks of this beach camp, which is supposed to be great. And the only problem is if it really, really rains, they just cancel the day. And I'm like, oh, that's going to be bad. But hopefully it just won't happen. And then then they're going to the Rosie's going to the two weeks of the camp that I went to. The overnight camp has a day camp and she's doing the two week session of that. Oscar doesn't know yet that he's too young to go. So he's been signed up for a different camp and does not know that he will be separated from his sister for two weeks. But we will ease into that as time goes on. So that's it. That's the camps. We're all set. Luckily, the camps in LA, it's terrible. I mean, I want to blame Trump, but it's like all of the rec center camps, like the rec centers aren't getting as much money as they used to. All the camps that used to be really affordable for people in the community are twice as much this year, three times as much. It's like really, really tough, tough times. And I like to blame Trump if I can, aka Jesus Christ himself.

Speaker 2:
[12:57] Wait, I'd like to reach out to the audience. Listen, so I bought all these nice sheets. I'm living a charmed life. I love the sheets. No matter how much do you spend and you tie the corners, why is the comforter inside the duvet, like the duvet insert, why does it untie and why is it moving around within it? What is the solution? Like what the fuck? And shout out to the people that went to the moon. But anyways.

Speaker 1:
[13:25] Just a quick shout out to the people who went to the moon duvet covers. Where are we with that?

Speaker 2:
[13:29] Listen, I just woke up at 8 in the morning at screaming. I started screaming, crying going, why can't I figure it? Like it took, I was, I just, am I sleeping crazy? Am I kicking too much? Like how is it untied? And then sometimes it's still tied and yet moving. Like it's, I don't understand, I don't understand.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] I think all it takes is one corner coming undone and the whole thing gets fucked up. But it's really crazy. We need to figure out, we need to get those astronauts back down from the moon and figure out more duvet technology.

Speaker 2:
[13:59] Maybe magnets?

Speaker 1:
[14:00] Duvet technology. I don't know, a magnet could smack you in the face in the night if you're thrashing. But my duvet ties inside and I'm talking, if you have a nice west elm or a parachute or something cover, the ties inside just ripped out one time, just ripped out when I was trying to tie them. So now my comforter is just loosey goosey in there. I need to get a new duvet. But yeah, the tie system, it's not perfect.

Speaker 2:
[14:24] But then some people are just, I understand being naked, just raw dogging the comforter. But I think you'd have to have your own washer and dryer.

Speaker 1:
[14:34] Yeah, and they make every duvet like bright, bright white. Like they don't really ever come in like patterns. That would make more sense to me. Yeah. You know?

Speaker 2:
[14:45] I do know. I think, I mean, I think, I've been thinking about this a lot.

Speaker 1:
[14:49] The duvet, yeah, we need to get, we need to, we need to step it up on the duvet technology.

Speaker 2:
[14:53] It's just like, I'm spending hundreds and I'm having the problems of peasants. Like I don't want that. Like it's just like, I don't like that. Why am I still having IKEA problems with my West Elm sheets?

Speaker 1:
[15:03] With your champagne dream. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:
[15:05] Yeah. That's what I'm not understanding.

Speaker 1:
[15:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[15:08] It's, it's annoying as fuck.

Speaker 1:
[15:11] I took Rosie and her four best friends, four boys to a birthday for her birthday last weekend. I took them to a jump place and then back to our house for chaos and pizza and a sleep under if you will, which is, you know, we've talked about this already where people leave early. Yeah, a lot of, a lot of male energy in there. She was so happy. She was so happy to just be surrounded by boys and have like, you know, and Oscar had a little friend there who was a girl and she was like, this is a lot. I felt bad for her. I was like, is she going to be okay? But the Friday night before I had this fucking sleepover, I got extremely drunk and because I did my, the co-host of my other podcast, Jackie, she does this thing every Friday where she's live streams with this guy Holden and they do shots and they get really fucked up. They smoke weed. They just get fucked up and people watch them and like send them money. It's like a Twitch thing and he couldn't do it. And so I've done it before in life. I did it in December and I had a great time and I didn't. I like I got drunk, but not too crazy.

Speaker 2:
[16:19] You don't say.

Speaker 1:
[16:20] This time I fucking just didn't eat anything and thought that we were going to somehow eat in the middle, even though we usually always the only other time I did it, we ate at the end. So I only lasted three and a half hours and then I had to tap out and I did throw up and I have not thrown up from drinking in four years. I think you were with me the last time I threw up from drinking. And it really kind of made us sleep under with five kids, a little bit more challenging. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 2:
[16:45] Oh, it was the night before.

Speaker 1:
[16:47] It was the night after. Yeah, it was the day after. And I had to go to my friend's birthday party after the stream. So I threw up, I took a 30 minute power nap and then I woke up and I felt great. I was like, all right, I'm good. And I went to my friend's birthday. I didn't drink anything. I only had water at the birthday, but I was like, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then when I woke up, my body was like, you're not fine. Actually, we gave you a two hour reprieve to go to your friend's birthday and now you're actually not fine. You actually feel terrible. So that was, and then straight into first grade or thunderdome. It was pretty wild weekend for me.

Speaker 2:
[17:22] Are goody bags still a thing or no?

Speaker 1:
[17:24] They are, but I don't really do them. And this wasn't like, this wasn't really like, we weren't really calling it a birthday party. She already had a birthday party in North Carolina. Like we were calling it just sort of like a, it was like pizza, ice cream. Like, you know, we didn't really, I didn't decorate for it, you know, she didn't really care about any of that. So we didn't do goody bags. But the people do do them and they're mostly filled with plastic junk that you throw away as soon as you get home. You know, like the kids play with them for like two hours. So it's like a lot of landfill shit. When she had a birthday a few years ago, I got the kids their own little mini clipboards and I printed out coloring sheets and gave them colored pencils with them so that it felt like more of a thing they could use at home. Like if they're on the couch, they can like draw or write or whatever. But I haven't really done a goody bag in a hot minute.

Speaker 2:
[18:09] How did Jared do flying across country?

Speaker 1:
[18:12] Oh, he killed it. He killed it. He remembered everything. He got them out there. He said they had like one little meltdown at the airport, but everything was fine. He did it. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:23] And you're surprised.

Speaker 1:
[18:25] I wasn't surprised. I thought he'll get them across. They'll be fine on the plane. I just thought he'll forget a bunch of shit that I needed him to bring. But he didn't. And then I sat with the kids the whole ride home and they were a dream. Oscar slept for like two hours. They just watched movies. We barely, it was amazing. It was great. But Rosie had that thing happen where you open your water bottle on the plane and it just spouted all over her. And she did freak out. It was, it was a never ending stream. Like it really kept going.

Speaker 2:
[18:53] But- Oh, wait. Also, did you see this? It's a mix of all my interests. They saved like a seal and they named him Shane Hollander. So it's like this baby seal named Shane Hollander.

Speaker 1:
[19:05] Oh my God. That's so cute. Wait, have I told you that we have a listener that has goats that they named Kara and Liza?

Speaker 2:
[19:12] Well, I don't-

Speaker 1:
[19:14] And then the goats had, one of the goats had babies and they named them Rosie and Oscar.

Speaker 2:
[19:18] Well, yeah, but like, I remember being named after, like a goat being named after me, but this was a few years ago. And I get updates of the goat. I didn't know that there was a new set of goats or if this original goat person had another goat and that's Kara. Or is this a new- am I- are there two separate goats named after me?

Speaker 1:
[19:34] Are there two separate Liza goats? I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[19:36] Yeah, like what the fuck?

Speaker 1:
[19:39] We have a listener- hold on, let me look it up. We have a listener who has goats and named them Kara and Liza, and then one of them had babies- maybe it was Liza that had the babies, who knows? And named them Rosie and Oscar, and then I showed my kids and they were like freaking out because they were so obsessed.

Speaker 2:
[19:57] They thought that was the coolest thing.

Speaker 1:
[19:58] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[19:59] Wait, now that we're- okay, you grabbed your phone and then I remembered my phone. I texted my nephews, I'm like, are you guys nervous about the draft? And they wrote NFL and I go, military. And it was like LOL. And then we were kind of just- and we were just kind of making jokes about it. And I liked that.

Speaker 1:
[20:18] That's so funny. I mean-

Speaker 2:
[20:21] It was a fun set of texts.

Speaker 1:
[20:23] Do we think that it's going to be- they just- this administration feels too stupid if they do instate the draft to like weed out people lying about- like if people lie and say they have problems and they can't do it.

Speaker 2:
[20:37] There's concentration camps. What are you talking about? They'll take everybody. They'll drag you out of the streets. They don't care. We're run by private prison complex. Like, what are you talking about? I know my nephews will leave the country, I hope.

Speaker 1:
[20:51] So-

Speaker 2:
[20:52] Wait, did we already lose our minds? Veselka is going back to 24 hours, April 17th.

Speaker 1:
[20:56] Wait, how long did they go off 24 hours?

Speaker 2:
[20:59] Six years.

Speaker 1:
[21:01] Wow, and now they're back.

Speaker 2:
[21:02] Six years. Yeah, and I have a late night spot. I'm going to go walk home. I'm going to get the custom new sweatshirt they just put out to celebrate and I'm going to live my life. It's going to change my whole social life. My whole life is about to change.

Speaker 1:
[21:15] That's amazing. That's amazing.

Speaker 2:
[21:17] It's really hard.

Speaker 1:
[21:20] Where I lived, there was French Roast and that was the only place that was truly 24 hours.

Speaker 2:
[21:24] But French Roast is awesome. That was awesome.

Speaker 1:
[21:26] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[21:26] It was an awesome place. It's Bagel Pub now, I think.

Speaker 1:
[21:29] It's gone?

Speaker 2:
[21:30] Yeah, it's been gone for a while. It's been gone for a while. Yeah, unless I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Speaker 1:
[21:36] Yeah, French Roast on the Upper West. But it's great to have a 24-hour actual place with normal, not bodega food that you can eat, you know? Agree.

Speaker 2:
[21:48] Oh, remember I said something crazy happened at my show with the speakers?

Speaker 1:
[21:53] Yes, where somebody was just getting, making Candy Crush noises.

Speaker 2:
[21:57] Okay, so I don't know if you guys remember, but last week I was talking about how I was doing a show at Union Hall and like through the speakers loudly, it was like a Candy Crush game when you could hear the Bip-bam, Bip-bam, Bachoo! And it was like crazy and people didn't know it was a bit and I'm like, I made it funny and whatever, but like the noises were coming. I couldn't speak into the mic. It was pandemonium. They turned it all off. Then when they turned it back on, an audio book of World War II was playing. And it was like loud and it was just like, we couldn't figure out where the noises were coming from. Everyone at Union Hall is kind of losing their mind figuring it out. I'm trying to finish my set, you know, whatever. So I had a show there last night and I was like, did you guys ever find out what happened? And basically one of the dudes in the kitchen accidentally connected his Bluetooth and he was watching a documentary about World War II. And I think he took a little break to play a game and then went back to the dock.

Speaker 1:
[22:54] But he wouldn't be able to hear the dock if the dock was going through the speaker. So the thing is for it to be on for a few seconds and be like, Why can't I hear this? You turn it off or something. But it was going on.

Speaker 2:
[23:05] No, he's not good at technology. That's why like all the girls telling me yesterday, she goes, was confusing. He doesn't really know what he's doing. Like I don't know. No one even understands how he did it. Like, but it was just a dude in the kitchen.

Speaker 1:
[23:15] That is they had to make their speaker undiscoverable because otherwise anybody could just go boop into the thing.

Speaker 2:
[23:23] Yeah. So wild. So funny.

Speaker 1:
[23:25] But a kitchen guy. I love a kitchen guy trying to find out more about World War II. I love that. I do love that.

Speaker 2:
[23:31] Well, I really loved reading We Could Be So Good. And then like You Should Be So Lucky, these Cat Sebastian books, because one is set in 1958, 59, and the other set in 1960. And it like is real New York stuff. And I really like it. And it's like, you know, they talk about real articles and real shit that was happening. And I'm just, I don't know, really into it. You know, when I was crying on the bench, I'm like, this is what I bet people that like make stuff want, you know, for people to like really react to something. Anyways, let's start this.

Speaker 1:
[24:06] All right. Yeah, let's get started. You know, as usual, you can go to thatsmesseduplive.com for our merch link. We have our Louise, Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis shirt up there, which is beautiful Carolina blue and is really soft tea. I love it. I'm wearing it all the time. And then our Patreon guys, we're at That's Messed Up. We're at on Patreon. It's patreon.com/that'smessed Up. And we've got some really fun interviews coming up and other such fun items. So get on over there and hang out with us there. And let's get started.

Speaker 2:
[24:46] We are doing Redemption in Her Corner, season 21, episode 13, February 6, 2020. We didn't know the world was going to collapse fully. We knew there were issues, obviously. And the episode starts very ahead of its time because listen to this. So keep this in your mind. February 6, 2020. It starts by Benson and Barba are FaceTiming on her laptop. So the fact that they're even FaceTiming. I don't feel like we were really doing that on our laptops even, right? I guess people Skyped, but I just, I don't know. I just think it's so ominous. To me, it's ominous.

Speaker 1:
[25:21] Interesting. Cause she's doing it before video calls.

Speaker 2:
[25:25] As prevalent. Like I know people did it.

Speaker 1:
[25:27] They're much more prevalent now.

Speaker 2:
[25:28] But like it's just ominous. Just knowing everything. But so she makes fun of his growing beard. He's in Iowa trying to blend in. He's there because of election fraud. And he says he's living in a dystopian nightmare. And it was, but we still had no idea. Like how much worse it's gotten. Like, I mean, for Barbara in February 2020 to say dystopian nightmare, which makes sense because he was in office, but still. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[25:59] That's crazy. Yep. We talk about dystopia so much now.

Speaker 2:
[26:03] And he asks how Benson is. He's heard about Tucker. So this Tucker has taken his own life. This is a nightmare. So her eyes instantly turned wet. It's been rough and it's so tragic. She's at a loss. Time is just flying by. They're having a beautiful moment. He said he'll be back after the primary. And when he's back, he wants to do dinner on him. Obviously, Barbara. He then says, Happy birthday. And he's early, but he wanted to be the first. So sweet. She closes the laptop. She's thinking. She walks out to the center area and tells Finn and Rollins that Barbara says hi. And she's like, she's kind of like regular working girl, like kind of putting Tupperware in her big bag. Like, I like, I like it. Kat isn't there because Finn let her go warm up for her boxing match. And then he's like, remember, we're all going. She obviously forgot she's in mourning, Tucker is dead. She has an appointment, she says, and Noah has rehearsal. She's clearly lying and runs off. Finn-

Speaker 1:
[27:00] Has the squad like ever literally gone to support another member of the squad doing something that they do in their free time?

Speaker 2:
[27:07] Okay. So I don't know if it's before or after this, I would say like the baptisms or weddings or like maybe adoption. No, they weren't at the adoption. But I think stuff like that, like, but those are all later seasons, early season. There's a Thanksgiving, does Craig and host?

Speaker 1:
[27:24] No, I mean, it's like they socialize sometimes.

Speaker 2:
[27:27] I know, I'm brainstorming.

Speaker 1:
[27:29] But like there's never like, oh yeah, Rollins has a fun hobby she does and we can all go watch her do it. Or like, let's all go see Finn try stand up comedy.

Speaker 2:
[27:39] Well, what are, what are you, oh yeah, they're going to go to the underground, yeah, they're going to go to the underground gambling ring. Like what is Rollins doing? I know, but it's like Belzer, Jeffree, Cassidy, I guess they are all at the video game convention and Finn likes video game, but they seems like they all do.

Speaker 1:
[27:56] Nobody ever went to go cheer Casey Novak on when her team Sex Crimes was playing softball.

Speaker 2:
[28:00] Yeah, maybe, but we don't, we don't know that. You're right, this is cute. I don't know where she finds the time, but we arrive at this boxing gym and Cat arrives as well. It's us and Cat, the figurative.

Speaker 1:
[28:14] Yeah, we're together.

Speaker 2:
[28:16] But before that, Finn reassures like Rollins looks worried and Finn's like, listen, she needs time. It'll be okay. Not everyone eats their feelings with like destroying their own life slowly. So she, sorry you don't get that Cat. I mean, I mean, Ralph is. Okay, so Cat arrives. There are women in the ring and a woman coach. And then Cat trash talks the woman. She's going to fight and they have a fun back and forth. And then she asks if Romeo's around. And they say Romeo with an accent and I'm not doing it. So his name is Romeo.

Speaker 1:
[28:47] They say Romeo.

Speaker 2:
[28:48] They say Romeo. Fine, I'll say Romeo. It's like, okay, Romeo. Romeo around. It doesn't even come natural. I'm saying Romeo. So Romeo.

Speaker 1:
[28:58] Go say it. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[29:00] Romeo around. I hate that. I don't want to say that either now. Whatever. She checks if the coach is in and he's in the office and Kat goes off to the office, but his door is locked, which seems unusual because she seems confused by it. Knock, knock. It takes a while to open. I would say 10, 15 seconds. And then a young girl, Cammie, walks out like pretty young and he looks suspicious as fuck. He's like touching his dick over his pants and he says he popped in her left shoulder, which is like such a wild lie to hop to. Like it could have been like she had a rough day or is giving her an inspiration, like to pop the shoulder back in, but whatever.

Speaker 1:
[29:38] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[29:39] But for none of that, you wouldn't have to lock the door to pop the shoulder in. And we would have heard a scream, no? Like when we've heard that.

Speaker 1:
[29:45] That's what I would think.

Speaker 2:
[29:47] Kat's Suspicious. Val is going to be in your corner, he tells her, which bothers her. Like, so that's going to be a different coach. And she wanted this guy and he's like, I have to be with Esperanza. I mean, she's only 19. And he goes, you'll be fine. And she goes, that's all I get for my pre-fight pep talk. Like, what the fuck? And he's like, right, fine. And begrudgingly gives her some words. He says, Esperanza has a left-week hook. So like do an overhead right and make it hard to counter. How do you coach both girls that are fighting each other? Like, that's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[30:18] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[30:20] You can't do that.

Speaker 1:
[30:21] Yeah, I mean, you can do that in a random gym, but then like not if there's like a competition element. That's what I don't get.

Speaker 2:
[30:26] Yeah, no, you can't do that. So, chat goes to Cammie, asks about her shoulder. She seems like she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about. So, locked door, weird shoulder, what's happening? Cammie goes, I like Cammie. She goes, SVU, relax. I'm not an after-school special. Okay, quit trying to stir up trouble. She walks off. So, this is a Golden Gloves qualifying match. Carisi is there in a full suit. You couldn't even loosen your tie. Like, I don't understand why... The full suit. Rollins, messy bun, perfect, like always. Finn is there too. So, then they ask who's fighting. An old man turns around the dad and goes, that's my daughter. And another girl is like, yeah, Kat's just a stepping stone for Esperanza. And he's acting out uppercuts. Like, he's at a Thai Boat class. And then like, so then they call Kat the brute from Beirut. I like that. And there's cheers and jeers. And then the ref has a silver eye patch. And I don't mean like a cloth one and it's the color silver. I mean, a hard, silver, metal eye patch that looks like artistic and melting over his eye. And he has a mohawk.

Speaker 1:
[31:37] I don't even think I noticed that. I think I looked away for a second.

Speaker 2:
[31:39] Cool guy casting. So people are definitely cheering louder for Katz's opponent. And the boxing happens. And then a money exchange happens between Fedora guy and a sweatsuit guy. The squad cheers on Katz. And I can't tell who's who. They're fighting. They're wearing helmets. It's red versus blue. And I truly cannot tell the whole time. So but no, Katz gets knocked the fuck out. She's struggling down there. The team did beat her. And yeah, so that sucks for her credits. So now we're back at work. Everyone's hung over as fuck. I love this. And they're like, damn, she can fight, but she can sure drink. Like, I just love it. And it's like, but you did lose. And then I'm like, wait, did she win? No, I'm wrong. Like, I couldn't tell. But she lost. She got knocked out and they all got fucking wasted. And she goes to talk to the captain, who is crying at her desk. So so then Benson goes, hey, I heard that you impressed the squad. And she goes, no. And then Benson goes, Ouch. Okay. So then she's like, did you start seeing predators everywhere when you started working? And she goes, yeah, it takes a little bit to like get used to what's up, but like also there are predators everywhere. So like, who knows? And so she fills her in on the main trainer and the young girl rushing out and he was tying his sweatpants and the shoulder thing. It kept her up all night. Benson encourages her to trust her gut. So, Catten Benson goes to Talk to Cammie and she loves him. She's like, that's the best coach. Like I give him credit for all the good things in my life. And then a grandma comes in and they call her Mrs. Vega and then I'm like, is it just her mom and I made up the grandma thing?

Speaker 1:
[33:14] Like, I don't remember. No, because she called her Abuela. She called her grandma. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[33:18] So then, so then she tells them he is a good guy, like a father figure. He drives her home when they train late and she's always so tired and goes straight to bed. And then she talks about the shoulder and then dramatic music plays.

Speaker 1:
[33:35] But the grandma doesn't know anything about the shoulder. She's like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2:
[33:38] No, no, no, no. That's what I said by saying dramatic music plays. Yeah. Did nobody understand that?

Speaker 1:
[33:52] It's like at this point, everything is telling us the shoulder is bullshit. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[33:57] No, the grandma says she does 100 push ups every morning. So I would say the opposite. And then they ask Mrs. Vega to talk to Kamie about Romeo and her shoulders and hands over her business card. They're walking outside. I really love this shot. Like the buildings look super tall. So like they're surrounded by three tall apartment buildings and lights coming in from like where they're walking towards. And it looks really cool. So Kat's like, all right, like let's go arrest him. She's like, OK, slow the fuck down. Now we just dig deeper. OK, like who else can we talk to? So they go talk to a girl at the laundry and it's Esperanza. And she says, oh, he touches me. But as a coach, like never in a creepy way, don't even worry about it. She's like, I know you're SVU, but it's just not like that. Kamie is his favorite. She admits he has his favorites, but she thinks full trainer, not perv. She says, if I notice anything, I will hit you up. Like I want to protect all the girls, too. She says, your eye's looking better. And then Kat responds, lucky punch, a little trash talk. And Esperanza goes, nope. You know, Romeo actually told me you would come around with that big right and you dropped your guard. And he tells her no mercy, where is the exact words. So damn, he told Kat to throw the right and told her it was coming and set Kat up. Bullshit. And like, was that a message? So they go back to the office and Koresi is being so Koresi. He has Tupperware and his mom made Ribollita soup. And usually, you know, Kara researches things she doesn't understand in the show and I never do. But I did look up the soup. I did look up the soup. It's a Tuscan soup. There's bread and veggies in it. So you usually make it with leftover minestrone soup and then you put stale bread in it to thicken it.

Speaker 1:
[35:44] It's like an old like classic like peasant soup. Because it's like all your leftovers. And he's like, take the soup. My mom made it.

Speaker 2:
[35:53] Well, yeah, because Benson tries not to take it. And it's like, you dumb bitch. Like you think you're not going to be able. You're going to say no to a foreign woman's soup. Like, I don't understand what. Like, just take it.

Speaker 1:
[36:02] Homemade Italian soup. Come on, just take it. She doesn't want to, you know, she's too tough. She doesn't want to accept any like that. Nothing's wrong.

Speaker 2:
[36:10] You know, she takes it. She scoffs that she takes it. So, they need it like the closed captioning needs to find better words than scoffs. They use scoffs a lot and that to me is a negative connotation. And her scoff was like chiller. But maybe scoff is more general and like I'm just reading into it.

Speaker 1:
[36:27] No, you're right, because when people say like, oh, like he scoffed at me when I asked him to do that, like it always is negative when you read it.

Speaker 2:
[36:34] Yeah, like she was like touched annoyed a little. Like she wasn't mad. She wasn't scoffing. Like they need to find a new word.

Speaker 1:
[36:41] Yeah, like what is the word when you just go, okay, like, you know, you just kind of do that, you know?

Speaker 2:
[36:46] Yeah. Yeah. If you're a linguist, hit us up. Do the noise again. Do the noise again. Yeah. Okay. He says it's his mother. Okay. We got that.

Speaker 1:
[36:58] Hopefully that got, wait, wait. I'm looking up synonyms for scoff. Hold on. Wait, nobody uses these words. Well, scoff, when you look it up, is to laugh out with contempt and derision.

Speaker 2:
[37:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:12] But I think there is another way that is not a scoff.

Speaker 2:
[37:15] Maybe Google, what is scoff without negativity?

Speaker 1:
[37:19] What is a positive scoff? A positive scoff. What is a word for a friendly scoff? Okay. Here we go. A chortle? A cackle? Somebody said chuff, that feels like it's from another country.

Speaker 2:
[37:39] Chortle.

Speaker 1:
[37:41] A titter? This is on a Reddit thread, so it's not like this is linguists saying it.

Speaker 2:
[37:47] One of the big reviewers during Edinburgh for comedy is chortle. You want a good chortle review.

Speaker 1:
[37:56] Yes. You definitely want to get caught. Yeah. So what happens next after the soup? We're going to find that we're going to get to the bottom of the scoff.

Speaker 2:
[38:09] So the brainstorm session starts about the fighter. She's not just like any old fighter, lots of awards are discussing. Cammie and Mrs. Vega walk in. Benson talks to them. So Benson's like, okay, let's go walk somewhere more private. But Cammie's fucking pissed. Like Esperanza fucking grills me. Like that's why we're here. Like you need to get the truth from me, not from some jealous lies. And like they don't even make it to the room. She's that mad. And she turns around and goes, actually none of this is your business, but Romeo and I are in love. Dot, dot, dark music, Benson nods. It is our business. It is our business. So the detectives make eyes. It truly says special victims unit. Like you couldn't have gone to a place where it's not, like that it's more their business.

Speaker 1:
[38:58] Like get out of my diary, bitch. Like you can't know that you are 16 and this man is, looks what, 30 something?

Speaker 2:
[39:07] Oh, older. He looks like shit. Sorry to the accent. Sorry to this man. But I didn't mean to insult you. But like that.

Speaker 1:
[39:14] Like to, yeah, this isn't like a 16 and a 20. This is a 16 and a way illegal.

Speaker 2:
[39:20] I think 44, like he's had like, he's had like a foot surgery, you know?

Speaker 1:
[39:27] He's had a foot surgery. He's that, he's foot surgery years old.

Speaker 2:
[39:30] The mom that is so upset and shocked, she's disgusted as fuck. They've been sleeping together for two years. She's only 16, which means rape, rape, rape, get him, get him. And she goes, whatever, I know what I want. Mrs. Vega is like, show her your texts, you dumb bitch. So they go to pick Romeo up and Carisi is on it. And he's like, I'll get the warrants. I'll get for the office, the phones. I'll get everything. So the cops enter the gym to pick him up, but Esperanza is already fighting him. She punches the shit out of him. He falls, he hits her, his head. Cat pulls her back. There's a giant crowd all around them. The ambulance drives by and now we're inside the ambulance with Romeo on the stretcher and Finn is sitting with him. And he's like, damn, some chick knocked me out. I like that. Sorry. So then he asks why the fight and he says it's all bullshit. He brings up Cammie. Romeo laughs about them being in love. And then he's like, oh, it's just a Mickey Mouse crush. Like it's no big deal. And he goes, oh, really? Finn's like, what about the sexting and the fucking? He screams immediately. She's lying. He says, Cat, set me up. The EMT says, this is my ambulance and you all need to shut the fuck up and puts oxygen on the man. So they bring Esperanza into the precinct and she says, you weren't doing anything. So I had to do something. Cat stays outside, obviously, they can't have her in there. So Rollins and Benson are in woodroom blinds with her and she spilled it all. She's like, the texts were disgusting. She was only 14. I saw them. She says she didn't know. Esperanza's like, no, no, no, there's no way I knew. He looks out for me, never crossed the line, always treated me like a daughter. And then Mr. Morales is here, Esperanza's father, and it's the guy from the beginning. And Cat fills him in and he's like, wait, wait, wait, I should be in there, but she's not a minor. And he's like, okay, fine, but like send her a message, like tell her to wait for a lawyer and that her dad said to zip it, you know? So she's spilling all the beans, Cat knocks and goes, your dad's here. And she goes, Santos. So she's like, he doesn't even need to be here. Benson goes, hey, babe, we're talking, so bye Cat. And she goes, oh, and by the way, your dad wants you to stop talking and that you should wait for a lawyer. So Benson's mouth is like on the table. Like it's a cartoon character. It's like Bugs Bunny with a crush. Like a mouth hits the table in shock. Can't even believe it. Stands up pissed. Oh, then girly Esperanza stands up pissed. Do I need a lawyer? And Rollins goes, well, if he presses charges, and she screams, he's a rapist. And Benson takes Tameena out and goes, and she goes, I know I screwed up, but her dad's upset and I want to help everyone. And Benson goes, you are way too close and you need to be objective. And she calls around and goes, you get too close all the time. And she goes, yeah, I know. And it's a fucking problem. And my old captain, rest in peace, I guess, Craig. Used to say, if you're too close to a case, you're not helping the victim. It's like, Craig has never said that. Kat goes, well, what are we going to do? We need to help. Like when are we arraigning this guy? When are we arraigning Romeo? And it's like, he's in the hospital and hit his head. Kat goes, fuck that. He's faking injury to buy time. I don't buy it. Benson goes, okay, I'll pass that on to Carisi. So we're at LaGuardia Hospital. He is handcuffed to the bed, arraigning. And the arraignment is going on. So the judge is there and his lawyer is in Kat. And I fucking love a fucking hospital arraignment.

Speaker 1:
[42:44] A bedside arraignment is fun.

Speaker 2:
[42:45] I am obsessed with the scene. I used to have a different... No, I still want to hopefully book a part where I can like get carried out of the courtroom after trying to run to the witness stand. But I think doing a hospital arraignment, that's fun.

Speaker 1:
[43:00] Second place. Also fun. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:04] And the judge even goes, is everyone cozy? I mean, I love it. So he's pleading not guilty. The bail set 20 grand. I did write $20, but I didn't know it was 20 grand. They want a protective order as well to keep him away from the gym to protect the girls, the defense, blah, blah, blah. But they grant the gym thing, the 20k bail and he needs to surrender his passport. Kat and Carisi walk away and Cami is like, does not want to testify. She loves this guy. Carisi says, I'll call her as a hostile witness. Like whatever, but you keep working on her. Then, uh-oh, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, Romeo is down, bad under, he's dead. So Esperanza needs a lawyer.

Speaker 1:
[43:48] Not good. Things went south real quick with old Roman.

Speaker 2:
[43:51] Yeah, like he was like giggling and making jokes during the arraignment. Like I can't believe how fast this happens. Carisi is like, tell her now Esperanza needs a lawyer. They're on her side. So he died from a brain bleed moments outside. Like they should have known. But so they're trying to blame like the arraignment stressed him out that his brain bled. Whatever. Rollins and Carisi are talking to Hadid, who I think we like we end up hating her. Like she's a dumb bitch. Right. She's the worst.

Speaker 1:
[44:18] I don't like Hadid.

Speaker 2:
[44:19] So they are discussing the case and she goes, fuck, rape to murder. And they're like, well, no, we like Esperanza. And she goes, well, I don't care, but she's a trained boxer. So man, too. And they're like, no, that's 15 years. She goes, yeah, terrible. But that's what's happening. Like she sucks. So they go talk to her. They're in cement room bars this time. She's in Adidas tracksuit. And she goes, this is not how my story is supposed to go. I'm supposed to rise above the narrative. Like I am not supposed to live this life. And I'm here for assaulting a fucking rapist. And they reveal that he's dead. So she's stunned. She's scared. She didn't mean to. Her eyes are watering. They tell her she's getting a manslaughter charge. She says it's an accident. Benson says it might not matter. Benson leans in and asks if Romeo did anything to her. She goes, no, never. And Benson's voice is really soft. She's caring at this moment. And she says she doesn't want anything from her father because they're like, your father says they'll get you a lawyer. Your father will do this. She's like, I do not fuck with my father. Like get the fuck, like don't ever say his name to me. Benson walks away slowly over to her and goes, are you sure there's nothing that you can remember that would turn this into self-defense? She starts to cry. Like obviously she's hiding something and there's like a lot of weight behind everything. And then Kat and Benson go to the spy window and they also know she's hiding something. So they decide to talk to the dozens of witnesses that were there that saw the punch out happen. So they're at the street memorial for Romeo. And so some people do know the molestation, some don't, I'm not really sure what the community vibe is. They're talking to another fighter and she's like, we're family here and now we're broken and I don't know who to believe. And they're like, just tell us what you saw. And she says Esperanza came in hyped up. They started arguing. She heard stuff, you know, he said, you're jealous. And she punched him. But this woman says if Esperanza hit him, that was for a reason. Like she wouldn't just be punching people. So now Kat's talking to another woman who's like, I can't take sides. And Kat's like, well, what will you tell her when she's in prison for 15 years? And she did hear them get into something and she's wrapping a young fighter's hand and it's like, send the child away. But she's like, I went over to break up the fight and they're like, but what was the fight about? And I guess he leaned into her ear and called her damaged goods. So she slugged him. And then Kat asks like, be straight with me, looking back, did you ever see something not right with him and Cammie? And she goes, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, no matter what, will always be known as that. Men make a mess and women have to clean it up. And she like walks through the empty gym. So back to the girl brainstorm at the office and Carisi and Finn. It's actually everybody. And they're both in full suits. And Finn looks like he's going to a wedding and is like a groomsman. He is wearing a blue silk shirt with an exact color matching blue silk tie. It is a very strange look. I feel like he has plans after work. So Bale is set at 10 grand. And Kat goes against the direct order to stay away from her without a lawyer. As an end is immediately. They're like, do not go see her without a lawyer. She's in a room with her at Rikers immediately. I just love how little they ever follow directions.

Speaker 1:
[47:31] They don't ever listen.

Speaker 2:
[47:33] She says Romeo is like a father to her, like it sucks. And Kat's like, well, you have a father. And she goes, leave him out. And like, and she tells Kat to leave and she doesn't want to talk about it. She tries to walk off, but Kat's like, babe, it's 15 years. So she never go to jail for a man. So she walks back and says, Romeo never touched me. And Kat asks why he called her damaged goods. She's like, fuck, people heard that. And she says, not everybody. And Kat goes, but what? What? She doesn't want to say. She's struggling to even put the words together. Kat obviously guesses it's the father, Santos. And she, and don't you ever mention that man to me again. And she leaves. So Kat's like, fuck, what do I do now? And then back at work, she's confessing to Benson and Carisi that she talked to her. But as a friend, not a cop, Carisi is fuming. I've never seen him this mad ever. And like, hand in her face, Staten Island vibes. Oh, you went to Rikers after she invoked? Like, it is. I love that.

Speaker 1:
[48:29] He's so pissed.

Speaker 2:
[48:30] You went to Rikers after she invoked? Like, he is pissed. They argue back and forth. Benson's being calm. She's being quite kind to Kat in this moment. The fight ends with Carisi going, okay, I guess just a little probative. Like, it's... And so, but, and then he goes, maybe you should be talking to her defense attorney, not me. And he tells her to not go back to Rikers without a lawyer and storms off. And she's like, I'll go take a run at Santos. And Benson's like, girl, you're not going anywhere. You cannot be trusted. And you cannot do anything without me. You are benched. Rollins and Finn go to talk to daddy pedophile. And he's like, oh yeah, my daughter's an angry person. She lashes out at people who fail her. You know, it happens. And Finn asks if she has always been that way. And he blames her mother for leaving when she was 10 years old for all her problems. And they're like, well, she had a dad. So you obviously flopped too, right? And you don't seem tight. So that's weird. And he goes, I gave her everything, ballet, gymnastics, boxing. I bust my ass so she can have the success I didn't have. And still she pushed me away. Finn plays like a deadbeat connection game, you know, trying to like rile them up. And, you know, it's like when they pretend to be incels. And Rollins goes, or maybe you got too close. And he goes, what? And you could tell he gets nervous and like, knows exactly what the fuck she's saying. But the detectives don't really have to say anything. And he leans in and says, I was a good father and I did everything for my two girls. And it's like, excuse me, ding, ding, ding. There's a sister, had, what's going on? He goes, she got hooked. I tried to save her. Now I've lost both my girls. So one's a boxer, one's a junkie. Like obviously it's this man's fault. So Esperanza, her lawyer, Benson and Cat are chatting and they're trying to save her. Tell your story. It doesn't define you. Benson says, and Cat says, it also doesn't have to leave this room. So he would, so he would climb into her bed, whisper Jesus as he like went in there. And he was a mean drunk when she was little and she would hear his footsteps and she just knew what was happening. And he would hold her down and rape her. And eventually she like stopped fighting back and that was that. And they asked how Romeo knew. And it's because she came into Box to protect herself. And he looked at Santos and knew exactly why. So from the beginning, he knew that like she needed to fight to like stop molestation. So when she confronted him about Cammie, he's like, you're fucking jealous. I would never want your poppy sloppy seconds.

Speaker 1:
[50:55] Fucked. Such a thing to say.

Speaker 2:
[50:57] Benson's pissed. Benson's pissed. So she wants to swing it on his ass too. Like she truly, oh my god. So then Kat is stunned. She says she should have known and protected Cammie. And Benson goes, well, and like, you know, how you should have protected your sister. She looks up, she's like, oh my god, my sister, you talk to her. And they're confused that she's alive because Santos made it seem like she's dead. But she as of two years ago, she was out. She's alive and panhandling outside of Port Authority. So they find her at Tompkins Renewal Shelter and Finn and Kat go to find her there to talk about her sister. And immediately she goes, Espy, is she in trouble? I heard she's in trouble. And they're like, well, we're hoping you can help us like help her. Like, so they explain the situation. She's upset and she goes, well, yeah, that's why she box to protect us. And Kat's like, well, come on, like, let's help your sister. We'll talk to the ADA. And she agrees to do that. But she goes, but my sister is good at boxing. So she has to pay me. Like, how much money are you going to give me? And it's also like, are you Delulu? Like, you think she's like rolling in the dough? Like, yeah, I'm crazy. But I guess, you know, she's on the street. So what's rolling in the dough? So Giant Marble Hall, Walk and Talk. It's a really gorgeous location. It's the whole team increase. He's like, fuck. So she's only going to help her sister if she gets paid. And it's like, yeah, it is what it is. Espy's too ashamed. We need to arrest him. Like, what are we going to do? And Hadid goes, okay, you're right. But we're not gonna. And then she just walks off. We're at Rikers and it's Santos visiting through the glass. And he's menacing. Like, this is scary. And then he goes, oh, to see my own kid, I have to sit through glass. And she says, you're lucky I'm even talking to you at all. He sighs and goes, your sister calls me. And she's like super nervous that you're going to run your mouth. And Espy responds, she is or you are. And guess what? They're spying. We're spying, we're taping, we're spying, whoo. Okay, so Carisi and Kat and Benson are hands on deck and there's a tech there, everything. And he's about to hang up and it kills her, but she has to act, she hates him, does not want to talk to him, but needs him because obviously a spy window and we need him to confess. And this actress is incredible. It's like she needs him there, doesn't want him there, has to beg him, crying on the inside, it's fucking wild. So she's like, okay, I get it. And so she's like, you want me to keep my mouth shut, I get it, but my lawyer says, the only way I don't go to jail forever is by telling people what you did. And she cries and says, you should have never touched me. And he isn't saying anything incriminating yet. And she presses like, you suck and you're only here so people don't know you're the worst. Like you never took care of me. Screwing your daughters, how can you do that to me? And she cries. And he says, finally, I couldn't help it. After your mommy left, you were all I had, puke, puke, puke. He says it's not my fault. He cries, oh, right, because it's my fault, right? You always said it was my fault because I was beautiful, that I was teasing you. And he goes, I raised you alone and I had needs. And she says, you raped me. And he says, do you hear yourself? What man would want you after you say that on the stand? And she says, how can you say that? You took everything from me, my childhood, my sister, my career. I was almost out. I was a fighter and I was a damn good one. And I had a chance and now I'm stuck in this hell hole. This actress is incredible. And she starts banging the glass with the phone and starts climbing onto the glass, like truly trying to fucking kill this guy. And then she's screaming, and I'm stuck here because of you. You took everything from me. Get out. And I'm screaming. And then a cop is dragging her away. She's sobbing. He sits there and he's panting. And she walks in with bandages on her hands later. Like she beat the glass. And the whole team is like, You killed it, girl. You did it. And she goes, Then why do I feel like I lost? And Benson goes, Trust me, you didn't. The hard part is over. You're still standing. And we're going to give you assault too. That's only two years.

Speaker 1:
[54:57] Okay, wait, can I just say something really quick? This actress is named Manny Perez. And I am seeing like a Reddit thread where she's a big voice in GTA, I think. And I think that these fucking game boys like bullied her off the Internet. Like she used to have an Instagram and she took it down because probably of all these creeps.

Speaker 2:
[55:23] So a woman can't even do a voice on a game? Like that's how mad they are?

Speaker 1:
[55:28] Yeah, truly. Because she, I don't think she has like any, I mean, there's an Instagram account up that looks like a bot account with no posts that has 58,000 followers. That's her, but like, that's her name, but it's not. Yeah, crazy. Anyway, just reminded me of that game, the lowest rated SVU episode of all time on IMDB because of these fucking incels.

Speaker 2:
[55:53] So now it cuts to Santos and he's trying to buy off the sister and he's like buying her things at the bodega and he's like, you're awesome, not like your sister, like you got over it. She's so fucking annoying. But guess who's right outside? It's the daughter helped. The daughter helped the other daughter, the sisters. The sisters are doing it for themselves together and they got him. So she spits on him and goes, I hope you die in prison. And she also tells Kat like she and don't no one needs to pay me. I don't, I don't need the money. Tell her to give the money back. Like, fuck this. And Graciela just runs off crying.

Speaker 1:
[56:26] But like, why is Kat fucking paying witnesses? You can't do that. Or like paying people to do shit. That is going to make the whole thing invalid.

Speaker 2:
[56:34] Well, she's giving the money back.

Speaker 1:
[56:36] I know, but nobody learns their goddamn lessons.

Speaker 2:
[56:39] Morales is punching in the gym in the prison, but she has visitors. And her prison outfit is fire. Like, she looks fucking awesome. Her sweatpants are so cool. They fit her really well. And Kat's there, and it's Graciela. Oh, my God. And they hug, and they say, sorry, it's so emotional. And I actually cried. I did start to cry. It's like a very emotional moment. And then they thank Kat, and Kat smiles, and that's Dick Wolf, baby.

Speaker 1:
[57:04] Oh, tough, tough fucking episode. But we got to get some help to Cammie, too. Let's get some help over to Cammie, who thinks she was in love with her trainer.

Speaker 2:
[57:16] Oh, Mrs. Vega is going to get her some therapy.

Speaker 1:
[57:19] Molesting her. Yeah. There was some stuff written that this maybe is about like the one punch loophole, which is I know something Liza likes to talk about from Con Air, right?

Speaker 2:
[57:37] The Con Air Rule.

Speaker 1:
[57:38] Yes, the Con Air Rule. So like that if a person punches another person and it results in their death, but the assailant did not specifically intend to kill them, prosecutors may struggle to provide felony man to prove felony manslaughter, which leads usually to lower misdemeanor charges.

Speaker 2:
[57:54] That's not actually what the Con Air Rule is. The Con Air Rule is that like you have your special, like if you're a professional boxer, or like you're in the military, like your body is a big weapon. So like if you're a professional-

Speaker 1:
[58:09] Using your fists as a weapon.

Speaker 2:
[58:11] Yeah, like if you're specially trained to murder and you murder, like you're a weapon. So that's not-

Speaker 1:
[58:16] Oh, got it, got it, got it.

Speaker 2:
[58:17] Not just any random person can do the punching.

Speaker 1:
[58:20] This is a little bit different because there's like a one-punch rule, there's a one-punch thing and then there's a sucker punch thing. Because I think that's a little bit different than sucker punching someone. But essentially what happened was there were, in the years leading up to this episode, like I would say a lot of the 2010s, there were a lot of incidences of one-punch deaths happening. And I mean, honestly, one happened at my college in like 2000 or 99, actually. A freshman came on campus and got into a fight with someone who had come to a party, didn't even go. One punch, the kid landed on his head the wrong way and he died. It was his first week at college. So terrible. Yeah, it was like awful. I mean, I didn't know him. I wasn't even at school yet because the freshmen get there before people. So it like, it was really, really fucking crazy. But I've like heard stories like, but I guess a lot of them were coming out in the news in New York, specifically leading up to this episode. So I'll talk about one. A guy named, I guess it's a Hungarian name, much like Mariska. His name is spelled S-A-N-D-O, but it's pronounced Shandor. Shandor Szabo had just left his sister's wedding in Queens in August of 2018. He was drunk. His phone was dead and he was looking for an Uber that he had apparently called or someone had called for him. And security camera footage shows him like throwing his jacket on the ground, trying to pull a mailbox out of the sidewalk, like the guy's kind of wasted and belligerent. And I guess he's like tapping on cars that he thinks are his Uber. And this guy Jamil Jones, who is from, who is living in North Carolina because he's an assistant coach for Wake Forest basketball. Wake Forest is where my brother went to college. And he was driving with his fiance in a white BMW. And apparently this guy, I read a couple of different conflicting things. One was that this guy smacked, like he saw the guy acting crazy and then this guy smashed on the back of their car. Some reports just say he smacked on the car. Others say that he actually broke the windshield, the back windshield. Like that's how actually Jamill Jones actually testified in court later saying that he broke the back windshield. And so he said that he heard a loud boom and that the real windshield of the car was smashed in. And that his fiancee like had her head in her lap and was crying. And Jones said that the drunk guy Szabo came up to her side of the car like the passenger side and laughed like a he-haw. That's what I read in the article. Like I don't know if it was like a yippee-ki-yay motherfucker he-haw or whatever. But so then Jones was like, oh, I gotta get this guy away from my fiance or from whatever. So he chased him and punched him in the face. He claims that this guy Szabo had a fist raised at him. But other reports and camera footage say that the guy was actually backing away from him. So, but after the punch hits, after the punch, Szabo hit the sidewalk and Jones and his fiance left the scene. When they circled back, they said they saw the man propped up against a car and other people helping him. So they like assumed he was all right, but he was not all right. And he actually suffered a traumatic brain injury and was brain dead. And four days after the punch, he was taken off life support after his organs were donated. Jones turned himself into the police. He had already like, I think he had already returned to North Carolina, but he had, he turned to New York and turned himself in. He had zero record. And he said he's never even had a drink in his entire life. And the victim...

Speaker 2:
[62:05] I like that the stimulus approves something good. And to me, I'm like, well, then you belong in jail.

Speaker 1:
[62:09] I know. I know. It was just like, everybody was like testifying that this is a good man. And so was the man who died. Like everyone in the articles is like, they're both great guys. Like this is like a tragedy that like nobody was really trying to commit any crimes, it feels like. Szabo's mother, Donna Kent was trying to fight New York City because they treat one punch deaths as third degree assaults, a misdemeanor crime. So it's actually the opposite of what happens in the episode is that it has a max penalty of one year. So what's interesting is like Hadid is giving her this manslaughter and stuff, but that's actually what they're saying. This loophole with one punch crimes is that it's really hard to prove manslaughter when you only punched one time in an act of passion, like it, you know, not premeditated. So it is kind of wild that Hadid's like, Oh no, we're giving her manslaughter. Like that's going to be so easy.

Speaker 2:
[63:05] Well, because I think she's the con air. She's a professional boxer. That's what Hadid said.

Speaker 1:
[63:10] Oh, okay. So that's the con air proof. Okay. Because she's a boxer. Yeah. So she basically treated her body as a weapon and used it.

Speaker 2:
[63:18] So the mother of the deceased was pissed.

Speaker 1:
[63:20] Yes. The mother deceased was pissed. She thinks these assaults should be treated as homicides. In 2020, Jones actually did go to court and he was sentenced to three years of probation, 1500 hours of community service and a $1,000 fine. So he never actually saw any jail time, but he did. By the way, one article I read said that his team of lawyers, like that are the whole, like all this whole team of lawyers could not find his fiance. Like they never were able to find her to question her. So like I don't even know what happened. But one article was like they could never question the fiance because she's a witness to what happened. But they, you know, but there are also people on the street that witnessed the whole thing too. So anyway, this past September, actually of 2025, Donna Kent, the mother of the victim was awarded a total of, and I'm going to read this because I've never seen such a precise judgment given $1,355,895.16. I don't know how they came up with that number, but that is the month that she was awarded in a civil suit against Jones. And the mother originally tried to sue the college too, Wake Forest, which has deep pockets. And they were like, there's no proof. This has nothing to do with Wake Forest. He was like a coach for our team who was in another state. So they dropped the Wake Forest part, but this guy has to pay out. But he lost his job. He's like, I lost my job. I lost my family. I've lost like everything from this. But what the civil court found in their judgment was that, you know, he stopped his car in order to interact with this man. He got out of his car with the intent to cause him harm when he could have just driven away. So, you know, but there was a one-punch law that was introduced as the result of the following crime in June of 2014. So a few years before this even thing happened was Szabo and Jones, a guy named Ildefonso Romero Jr., a 59-year-old father of five, who was about to celebrate his 34th wedding anniversary, was trying to break up a fight in front of his house in the Bronx when a 17-year-old punched him and he fell and hit his head on the steel part of the sidewalk, which ended up killing him. The 17-year-old attacker got just five months because the court could only charge the attack as a misdemeanor.

Speaker 2:
[65:38] What is this law that even passed?

Speaker 1:
[65:40] Well that's the thing. So his family is heartbroken. So in June of 2017, the New York State Senate passed the Il Defonso Romero Jr's Law, which was sponsored by Senator Jeff Klein, a Democrat from the Bronx, Westchester area. And the law would create a new felony charge for an aggravated assault that results in serious injury or death. Also known as the One Punch Bill, Il Defonso Romero Jr's Law allows prosecutors to charge and convict perpetrators who use their fists as deadly weapons. It's a new Class E felony that carries a maximum prison term of four years.

Speaker 2:
[66:16] So the laws changed from the thing or both exist? I'm confused.

Speaker 1:
[66:21] So that's where I'm going to get to. So this comes off the heels of all these police reports talking about One Punch crimes like they're on the rise. And that the videos are popping up on the Internet online. Showing people how to land a One Punch and how to sucker punch people and shit like that. So that's why they did all this and all these like cases. And I honestly read about a bunch more cases, but I didn't want to just go through and just tell you about all these people that died from One Punch. But honestly, the bill was passed, but it never became law. And I tried to find out what happened to it, but it was passed as a bill in 2017. And then I don't know with like COVID three years later, like I have no idea why this didn't like go on to become passed as a law, but it hasn't. So it's still in New York, at least, is still a misdemeanor with a max of one year. So yeah. And then another case that this episode was based on is the Lloyd Woodbury case, which might sound familiar to you because I was halfway through researching it when I actually pulled up an episode of our podcast because we actually have already covered it, but Liza researched it and it was in the episode A Single Life. So essentially just like a quick recap of it was like in the late 50s, this 10 year old little girl named Loretta Woodbury was basically was raped by her father for seven years. And he told her it was like a special thing that fathers and daughters did demanded she never tell anyone. She it's funny because the case has been featured in a bunch of episodes about repressed memory. But she's like, I didn't repress the memory. I just like didn't want to confront my father. And in 1990, in her late 30s, she after to after psychological counseling, she decided it was time to talk. She said I could no longer pretend nothing had happened. It was just time to do it. She spoke with her father. She spoke with friends and authorities. And then she contacted Wyoming authorities in 1990 and requested that they prosecute her father, Lloyd Calvin Woodbury. Because even though she's from the LA area, she's from like the valley. She called authorities in Wyoming because they are in a state that has no statute of limitations on criminal cases. And he was charged in August of 1990 with five felony sexual abuse counts in connection with assaults on Loretta, her cousin and a third girl who was also a niece of his, whose case came to light as the Wyoming authorities began to investigate. And in November of 1990, in Wyoming, the 73-year-old father pled guilty to charges of raping his daughter and her cousin three decades earlier, and Wyoming said it was the oldest sexual assault conviction in the state's history. I was confused that they could even do that unless one of the crimes took place in Wyoming, or maybe it was where the father was living at the time. I was a little confused and I stopped my research since it was repetitive, but it sounded a lot like the story, like the abuse started at 10, just like with Esperanza, the sister and the cousin, the two sisters. So it seems loosely based, but then also kind of juiced up with this one punch thing, which I didn't even really hear about. I was living in New York in the 10s for a lot of them. And I don't remember hearing about there being like a big rise in that, but it is really scary. It's like something to think about. If you go to punch a person, you might just think I'm landing one punch, but you can literally kill someone with one punch.

Speaker 2:
[69:35] Life is precious.

Speaker 1:
[69:37] Yeah. Yeah. So that's that on that. A shorty today.

Speaker 2:
[69:46] And if you want to know more about that crime, you can rewatch that.

Speaker 1:
[69:51] You can go back to a single life season one episode that we covered a few episodes back, I think like last summer. But yeah.

Speaker 2:
[70:00] Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:
[70:01] We don't have a guest today, so let's just move on to the postmortem. I don't know. I now am like, can any coaches be trusted? We can't do closed door meetings with a coach. I'm nervous about coaches or any kind of, I don't know. I just, you were more of an athlete than I was. I only ever had female coaches. I know it was the dad, but the guy was bad.

Speaker 2:
[70:27] It's not the coach, the bad. It's all of them. The professions don't matter, but it's always just like if there's power. If there's a kid and an opportunity, they're just pedophiles, I guess, just waiting. Like women are Karens and men are pedophiles. And you got to keep it in check.

Speaker 1:
[70:51] And I think we are actually asking to see the manager is really nothing in comparison. I think we're killing it as a gender. But, yeah, this, I mean, also, though, I feel like the thing I take away from this is like I mentioned in the thing, like this guy that I went to school with, I mean, I never I didn't know him. He was a freshman. It was his first week at college. Just got hit one time and landed on the pavement the wrong way. It's like why I'm just like no fighting, like no punching or violence, because I always just think even though you might just think you're punching someone one time or like send a message, you could fucking kill someone. It makes me nervous.

Speaker 2:
[71:33] No, I don't like fights. Everything can change in a minute. I don't like little pranks. Don't push anyone in a pool. Like I don't like that stuff.

Speaker 1:
[71:42] Our brains are just squishy little vulnerable blobs in there and I just don't want anyone to fucking, I don't know. But anyway, I feel like.

Speaker 2:
[71:54] Well, we're done. We're done. Don't do sports. Don't be around men. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[71:58] Don't do sports. Stay away from men.

Speaker 2:
[72:02] Do sports, do sports, fight. When someone does a crime against you, it's not on you. Like you shouldn't have to bear the shame and it sucks that our society makes it easier for predators to survive than, than survivors to come forward.

Speaker 1:
[72:21] I also feel like this episode taught me that even though I really like boxing, I never want to get as far as Cat Tamin is in boxing. Like I don't need to be at the competitive. I don't even ever want to wear the ear things, like the little like head wrap thing. I'm just, I want to smack, smash a bag. That's it. That's it for me. And then I'm out. Um, but, um, let's...

Speaker 2:
[72:45] Also I'm on the road. I'm in Vegas. I'm in LA. I'm in Salt Lake City. I'll be in La Jolla and Cleveland and P-Town. I can't wait.

Speaker 1:
[72:56] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[72:56] That's so fun.

Speaker 1:
[72:57] P-Town.

Speaker 2:
[72:59] Wait, I had my hairstyle appointment. And, you know, she is a reader and she goes, you know, I was remembering when you first started coming to me. And I think this was like over a decade ago. She goes, I did keep asking you every time you came in what books you read. And she goes, you did flip out on me and go, um, why do you keep asking me that? I don't read books. And she like remembers that. I was like, I said that. Like, I guess that is how I speak. But it's like crazy.

Speaker 1:
[73:23] And how the tides have turned. Now you're just literally.

Speaker 2:
[73:27] I mean, I'm always scared that everything is going to end at every moment. But I'm thrilled with it right now.

Speaker 1:
[73:34] Yeah. Amazing.

Speaker 2:
[73:36] Have you been watching the press about Rachel Dratch from Jeopardy?

Speaker 1:
[73:40] No.

Speaker 2:
[73:42] So I guess, you know, she did Jeopardy, probably Celebrity Jeopardy. And while she was getting her hair done, the guy's like, did you study, like the hairdresser? She goes, no, not really. I don't know. Like whatever. And he goes, I don't know. You're not going to look anything up. And she goes, what should I look up? And he goes, I don't know. What about the Spanish Armada? And then the like daily double thing, the answer was the Spanish Armada. Like, and so she sat in the hair chair, looked it up. That was the only thing she looked up. And then like the daily double thing happens. And she goes, the Spanish Armada? And it was right.

Speaker 1:
[74:13] That's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[74:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[74:16] I feel like most people would think that that was sort of weird cheating or something.

Speaker 2:
[74:21] No, no, I think it's cool. I look at, yeah, it's no, no one's thought that. Everyone's been really pumped about it.

Speaker 1:
[74:28] I mean, no, I'm just, it's for someone that works at the show to tell you to look up one thing. It's interesting.

Speaker 2:
[74:34] Well, we don't know where the hairdresser was. She could have hired someone to come to her house. Like, we don't know where this person was. Okay, that is crazy. We know nothing.

Speaker 1:
[74:42] That is crazy. I thought it was like in the chair at Jeopardy with, you know, It could be in the chair. In-house hair and makeup at Jeopardy.

Speaker 2:
[74:49] But they would.

Speaker 1:
[74:51] I bet those people know that you're not really supposed to, like, talk to anybody about, like, any potential questions or anything. So that's crazy. I love that. I love a little coincidence. That's very fun. Okay, let's get into our What Would Sister Peg Do? This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an article, a book, an organization, something to give you more information about what we talked about today. Or in this case, we're trying to tell everybody to stay away from men and watch out for your coaches. So this week, we wanted to point you to the YWCA USA. Their mission is to eliminate racism, empower women, stand up for social justice, help families, and strengthen communities. So for more information and to find locations and donate, head over to ywca.org, a much, maybe a better place to go than a boxing gym run by a pedophile.

Speaker 2:
[75:44] I know, we didn't have good post-mortem lessons, but I will say that actress was incredible. Yeah, she was great. She was an incredible actress.

Speaker 1:
[75:53] She's like a fighter.

Speaker 2:
[75:54] And next week, we'll be doing a recall from season eight, episode three, can't wait.

Speaker 1:
[76:01] See you next week, bye.

Speaker 2:
[76:11] That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production.

Speaker 1:
[76:13] If you have complements you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at thatsmesseduppodatgmail.com. Listen to That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2:
[76:26] Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and follow us personally at Kara Klenk and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1:
[76:33] As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Speaker 2:
[76:37] Thank you so much to our senior producer, Casey O'Brien, and our associate producer, Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 1:
[76:43] And to our mixer, John Bradley, and our guest booker, Patrick Cotner.

Speaker 2:
[76:47] And to Henry Kapurski for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork.

Speaker 1:
[76:51] Thank you to our executive producers, Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgariff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.