transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[04:17] But let's get going.

Speaker 1:
[04:21] Kelsey Keith, welcome to Fashion People.

Speaker 3:
[04:24] Hi Lauren, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:
[04:26] I'm so happy to have you. So we are, where are we? Because I don't want to have to pronounce it in my terrible American voice.

Speaker 3:
[04:33] We are in Milan. We're here for Design Week, both of us. And I'm so happy to have you with us.

Speaker 1:
[04:42] So a lot of people know this Milan Design Week as like Salone di Mobile. Is that how you would say it? But that's just like one part of it, right?

Speaker 3:
[04:52] Yes. There's an entire Design Week happening outside of the official fair, which is Salone di Mobile.

Speaker 1:
[05:02] Okay, Salone di Mobile. I'm not going to try that anywhere else. So you are a design writer and editor, and your current gig is, do you want to explain it? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[05:19] I am the creative director of MillerKnoll, which is the parent company and the enterprise business that surrounds Herman Miller Knoll and 12 other design brands, including Design Within Reach and a few others.

Speaker 1:
[05:37] And prior to that, you were an editorial and that's how we know each other. We also have many mutual friends, including one, Hannah Fidel, who occasionally listens to Fashion People.

Speaker 3:
[05:48] I think she'll listen to this one. The most mentioned person on Fashion People, perhaps?

Speaker 1:
[05:53] Maybe.

Speaker 3:
[05:54] One of.

Speaker 1:
[05:55] One of, for sure. There is someone else who gets a lot of a lot of shout outs that I can't remember right now, but she does. She does get many, many mentions. But we have all these friends in common. You were an editor for an editorial editor for a long time at different. You were at Curbed. You were many play. You worked. Did you work at Dwell also?

Speaker 3:
[06:19] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[06:20] So this is your what, eighth or ninth Salone or Design Week, or is it even more than that?

Speaker 3:
[06:27] Yes. I was trying to count, I believe, nine or 10.

Speaker 1:
[06:32] So the reason I'm having you on for people who are like, what's going on? This is a fashion podcast. Not that it has stopped me from talking about eating disorders and things in the past, but is because I'm here for, we're doing this dinner with Shop My. But I'm really here because there are so many big fashion installations and activations and projects being launched here. Because the world of fashion realized at some point that people were gravitating towards furniture, collecting rather than buying more handbags, and so they decided to get in on the action here. And it just feels like I thought I was going to have a really good time and get to go to all these like exhibits and look at all these cool houses. And I basically have just been going to fashion house events because I'm like, well, I need to see what they're doing for my job. But can you talk a bit about like how the design fair started when you or or what the design fair was like when you started coming 10 years ago versus now and how fashion plays a role in that?

Speaker 3:
[07:37] Sure. Well, once you've been to 10 of these, I think is when you start getting to go to the house museums and see cool exhibitions and stuff and you don't have to go to a spinning back press previews. Yeah. So we'll see what a few. I haven't gone consistently every year. So probably my first Saloni was maybe 2011. And I think what's been interesting about that trajectory is it really has a trace to both all of the changes in media and also technology. I won't spend too much time on this, but just to give you a taste, when I was first coming as a baby magazine editor to Saloni, what you would do is you would go to the fair, you would spend several days there just like going through all the halls. Because basically everybody, all of the big companies were exhibiting there. That was the place to be. And you would go to the press office and they would equip you with essentially this red rolling suitcase that was labeled E. Saloni. And you would take this thing and everybody would just load you up with press kits, like big paper press kits and like swag, I don't know, whatever it was that year. That's so funny. It was, yes. I mean, that sounds like ancient history and it sort of was. But you would need the rolling suitcase because there were so many of them and you would have to like check the bag and then you would take it back to your magazine office and then everybody would spread out your press kits all over the conference table and you would spend like two weeks going through the press kits and sort of separating out like the good from the bad and figuring out what you would put in the magazine three months later. Obviously, that changed completely from year to year. Very quickly, CDs, flash drives, QR codes changed totally. Also, when I worked for Dwell, it was a little bit ahead of its time because even, I think 2011 was pretty early to be talking about magazines existing on different platforms. I think a lot of, I mean a lot of Conde wasn't even fully digital at all at that point. So pretty quickly, my time in Milan turned to pounding the pavement for like 12 hours a day and then going back to like blog for the website at night, which was exhausting but sort of exhilarating. I mean, you're reporting all the time, so you still do this.

Speaker 1:
[10:09] I've never stopped blogging since 2010. Actually, I had a blog at Forbes called Find of the Day.

Speaker 3:
[10:19] Find of the Day, you're still doing Find of the Day. Actually, I mean, you have a daily newsletter. You basically are doing Find of the Day.

Speaker 1:
[10:24] I do do Find of the Day basically when we do the shoppies. But yeah, I'm still blogging anyway. You moved on like most people.

Speaker 3:
[10:32] But I mean, how media has interacted with Solone like has test tracked with all these technology changes, I guess is what I'm saying. And so like then social media entered the picture, and then even who gets access to design fares like this has changed over time because now it's definitely not just editors who are seeing it. You see lines out the door for entry to all of these things. And it's become a part of culture, which is obviously like why fashion is here activating too, because it's just, there's a broader interest, and it really is culture. But number two, as we know, editors aren't really the gatekeepers anymore, and influencers are here. It's all over social media. I think the trend that I saw this year was interesting that I had no part of, but I observed because it was all over my feed, was the Milan lifestyle posts on Instagram happening. People would give their top five places to eat in Milan from a local's perspective or something. Which to me is interesting because again, 10 or 15 years ago, people weren't really thinking of Milan as a lifestyle destination at all. You would say you're going to Milan and they're like, I'm sorry, I wish you got to go to Florence or something. Architecture people have always loved Milan. The built environment here is beautiful, but it's a specialized taste and now, I think everybody's hip to it as evidenced by the crowds here, which are just insane now.

Speaker 1:
[12:04] Yeah, it's so interesting. I started going to Milan Fashion Week in 2010, and then I didn't go for a long time. And then when I started at Puck, well, actually a little before I started at Puck, I started coming again. And I'm like a big fan of like mid-century Italian. So I love the architecture here and I love the way the city looks. But I would say from a food perspective, I have only the last two trips started to find things. There's one lunch place that I go to to work from. I work from there today, but it's called Higa. Are you going to blow it up?

Speaker 3:
[12:42] Okay, all right.

Speaker 1:
[12:43] Do you know it?

Speaker 3:
[12:45] No. There's one lunch place that is sort of like the, if you know, you know spot that everyone goes to. It's a little bit sceny, but very small. And actually, you probably know it because Loro Piana bought it when the two owners retired.

Speaker 1:
[13:04] Oh, so what is it called?

Speaker 3:
[13:06] La Lotteria.

Speaker 1:
[13:08] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 3:
[13:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:11] No, this is, this is just a little, it's H-Y-G-G-E, the like cozy in whatever language, Scandinavian language that is. It's like a little like third wave coffee place south of Duomo in that like sort of hip neighborhood. Yeah. And they have like avocado toast and so, but it's not cheesy. It's really nice and they let me work from there and they're very nice. But that's honestly the only food place, up until these last like three trips, I've started to go to better places. But usually, when you come for fashion week, you just like go to like, and go to Ria and maybe La Loteria or that one, Bice, those kinds of places, which are all great.

Speaker 3:
[13:56] Bice is great.

Speaker 1:
[13:58] But it's like I was never choosing where to go and now.

Speaker 3:
[14:01] My favorites are Ravello 18, which used to be right in Brera, but it moved and I went today for lunch and it's still totally excellent. Great.

Speaker 1:
[14:09] Yeah, I've been to Ravello. It's really good.

Speaker 3:
[14:11] And they also have vegetables, which is good. Yes. And then Otimo Fiore, which is Sicilian. So not even close to Melanie's.

Speaker 1:
[14:21] It sounds delicious. But yeah, I now have like a little list, but it is interesting. We also went, we did a little vintage shopping at Shop the Story.

Speaker 3:
[14:30] We did. I am the biggest enabler of all time, but I'm still thinking about the dress I tried on. I'm probably going to go back again.

Speaker 1:
[14:38] I think you should. I mean, you're not an enabler. I was already like, yes, I'm buying two bags. And then I bought the dress also.

Speaker 3:
[14:45] Well, our friend Somsak, I sent him a picture of the dress and he was like, well, you know, people don't make dresses like that anymore. Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[14:54] I know that's such a Somsak dress too. It's like, so it was, it's a nine, I believe 90s Miu Miu. And it like is so of the era of Isaac Mizrahi and Marc Jacobs and Prada and all of that stuff. And I could see him, because didn't Somsak work at Isaac Mizrahi? I think so. And it is so beautiful. But it's very fun here. What do you think of, what are the fashion stuff that you've gone to? Have you liked? Like, what do you think of it so far? And like, where do you think fashion could like do more interesting things?

Speaker 3:
[15:34] So, I mean, the observation with Fashion and Design Week is historically, I mean, just like in the last several years, the three big players in Design Week, the people who are, you know, the houses that are taken really seriously by design people and whatever they exhibit here are Hermes, Prada, and the Webby. And Hermes just knocks it out of the park every time. I mean, their quality of their exhibitions is just kind of unparalleled. Obviously, that has a lot to do with budget, which helps. But it's beautiful and the craftsmanship is there and it's super central. It's right in Barra. So that's always a messy. Prada, the way that they activate around Design Week has a lot to do with art. Fondazione Prada, the museum, opened 10 years ago exactly. And then I think Prada Frames, which is their conversation series, I think started four years ago maybe. And then this year, they are doing something that's loosely titled Prada Home with Theaster Gates. But again, that's pretty art based. So that's very much like a Prada thing. Loewe isn't doing anything this year, but because they were doing the Craft Prize, that's obviously like catnip to design people. And under Jonathan Anderson had been doing great things in the design sphere. So they were always kind of a messy as well. In terms of other fashion things, I mean, it really runs a gamut. I would say a lot of exhibitions in Milan are either idea or thing, not necessarily idea and thing together and not necessarily a good idea. But it's the spectacle and it's like creating the culture of design more than necessarily like furniture itself, whereas I think it used to be purely about furniture. So that's changed over time.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 1:
[18:45] I went to the Prada. I went to a bit of the Prada Frames thing last night. It was the performance part that was in... What is the church that it was? It was like...

Speaker 3:
[19:01] Santa Maria di Legrazi.

Speaker 1:
[19:03] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[19:04] Where the Last Supper is housed.

Speaker 1:
[19:06] Yes, I did not get to see the Last Supper because I was only there for the performance, but it was pretty incredible to be in that church.

Speaker 3:
[19:15] I know it's 15th or 16th century, and then all these people in amazing outfits and contemporary music, it's like, yeah, it's a vibe.

Speaker 1:
[19:25] It was incredible. Then I went to the Arket thing that Leila Gohar did where she designed a carousel and it had little seats that were... I wish my kid was here for that. I thought that the Lora Piana, I went to their thing today where it was just basically the material that they used for scarves on tapestry, and I thought it was really beautiful. But there were so many things that I... And I thought the Jill Sander thing was cool, where they built this little reference library and they had music in the background. Not a sound in the background, so it sounded like you were in a library and they were like, shh. And they picked all these creative people who are sort of connected to that universe. And with, they did this with Apartmento, the home brand, home publishing.

Speaker 3:
[20:24] Yeah, magazine and creative agency based in Barcelona. That one, that one was, I mean, I didn't know what to think about it, but I think the execution was good. I mean, it had kind of this hall of mirrors effect. And I think the way that it was very low lit, made people really engage with each of the book selections, which was nice, because it is hard to get people to stop and actually read something as we all know.

Speaker 1:
[20:54] Yeah, and it was also like, they chose a mix of people. Yes. Like Miyako Bellizi did one, but also Sofia Coppola. So it was like newer people and then people who everybody knows, but it was funny. I forget who it was. I think it was like a Chinese artist picked Clayton Christensen's The Innovator's Dilemma. I was just like, this is so funny to me. And I also thought the fact that it was low-lit and then the sound was, because you felt like you're in a library, people were being quiet in that area. I thought it was interesting. I don't know what it has to do with Salone, but I guess it's library design is something as well. And it was just a nice way for a brand like that. It was a nice way to engage, but I'm looking forward to going to the Gucci thing tonight. There's Demna curated something.

Speaker 3:
[21:53] I will see you there.

Speaker 1:
[21:54] Great. Yeah, I talked to him a bit about it, and he said, what did he say? It was definitely not on the records, but it wasn't controversial. Basically, he was trying to really think about the history. They used to do a lot of collaborations with artists, and he wanted it to be about the history of the house, so I'm interested to see. He's like a real student of archives and the Gucci, and I just went to the Gucci archive because I was at this Cering Capital Market in Demna was there. I'm interested in that.

Speaker 3:
[22:27] There's a lot to mine there. I think one thing to remember too about something like Solone. All of the design fairs differ a little bit in this. This really started out as a contract or commercial trade fair for that kind of furniture. When you're doing something like exploring the landscape of the home or something more domestic, that inherently is meant to appeal to a more consumer audience. So you are opening it up to more people, which who can argue with that? That's cool.

Speaker 1:
[22:57] Totally. I think now that my crazy day, we're recording this on Monday at 5.45, now that I have done all of my reporting for the week other than my Salone reporting, I am going to try to enjoy it and go to D'amore, the gallery and things like that, that I wanted to go to last night and went to the wrong location. And just, like La Double J did a very cool thing. I didn't get to go to that.

Speaker 3:
[23:23] The sound bath.

Speaker 1:
[23:24] Oh, damn. Love a sound bath. I got a facial last week.

Speaker 3:
[23:28] I definitely got invited to that. And I was like, it's because I live in California, isn't it?

Speaker 1:
[23:32] I got a facial last week in Paris, and there was a little sound bath. And I was like, yes, I'm paying for the extra.

Speaker 3:
[23:38] A tiny face-size sound bath.

Speaker 1:
[23:40] But yeah, it's like, the thing for me that's been challenging is Fashion Week is very scheduled.

Speaker 3:
[23:48] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[23:49] And also, I know my place there. So it's like, I go.

Speaker 3:
[23:55] This is chaos. This is true chaos.

Speaker 1:
[23:58] Chaos. And it's also more social. Like Fashion Week is like, you go to a dinner. I don't go to a lot of parties during Fashion Week.

Speaker 3:
[24:06] I was going to ask you about that because people like stay out here. It is very, very social. Like I came to your schedule is later because people are expecting to stay out super late.

Speaker 1:
[24:17] Yeah, I came to your party last night and I was like, on Sunday night and I was like, this is cool and actually Raul Lopez from Loire was there and he's like, no one knows I go to this. It's so fun. It was really, I'm going to include a mention in my report, but it's harder to put in a box, which is interesting and says a lot about the, and it's also a much more less uniform. The thing about fashion is it really is like a lot of lemmings, like a lot of followers, and this feels much less uniform, the kind of people, the people are like Raul being here, the people that I've run into here, just so many people from so many parts of my life, like people that I've met in the last year, but then also my best friend of 20 years came for fun, who, Emmy Parsons, who has a sandals line. Like, it's just so interesting in that way.

Speaker 3:
[25:12] Yes, I ran into, I mean, from San Francisco, I ran into the architecture curator of SF MoMA last night, and she was with one of the owners of Quince. Oh, fascinating. Who has amazing taste, and so she comes because that's so interesting.

Speaker 1:
[25:31] Yeah, like I ran into Rachel Sheckman, who's a retailer, and she's really good friends with Sarah Andelman of Colette, and they were together. I mean, obviously they're here, but yeah, it's just a fun, it's also because usually the fashion weeks, you have like, you see the French people in France, the Italian people in Italy, everyone's here. So it's like, it's everyone together who would not normally like, Charlotte Chenet is here, she normally would not come to Milan Fashion Week because she shows at, in Paris, she does like a little showroom in Paris. So that part of it's interesting too, like all these worlds colliding. Really quickly on the business thing, and then I want to run a couple other things by you. Yeah. We were talking about this the other day, and these are all fashion and furniture design, all these things. These are product businesses, and naturally, especially products that are sort of like lasting, these businesses are not going to grow like they used to, because it's just that we live in a different world, it's much more virtual, people don't need as much stuff, and what they're spending on is often very disposable. I think a lot of these fashion brands see home as a huge opportunity, like look at Armani Casa as a big business for them. Do you think it's a big opportunity, and where does the opportunity lie for these fashion brands to actually, like Yves Saint Laurent has done some interesting things, they have collaborated with Charlotte Perriand, but they don't have a home line, but they could. You go into a Saint Laurent show, and it feels like the last show he did was in a glass box, it felt like we were in his home. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[27:13] And also Pierre Paulin, no? I think some of that as well.

Speaker 1:
[27:18] So do you think that it's worth investing? I remember when Phoebe Philo was still at Celine, they were planning to do a home collection. Really? She was eventually going to launch Men's in Home. Yeah, it was in the plans. Wow, that's good to know. But I'm curious, as someone who really understands the home business and how people spend their money, even people with means versus art versus fashion, do you think it's worth it for these brands to not just have a little exhibition here, but to develop home lines?

Speaker 3:
[27:52] I do, but there has to be a commitment to doing it well because I think something as significant a purchase as actual furniture, you can tell pretty quickly if it's made poorly, if it's bad, if it's uncomfortable, and if it doesn't work. But in terms of whether there's a market, yes. I mean, in general, I think with consumers, there's a bit of people don't necessarily always know what they want until you tell them. I don't say that in an elitist way, I just mean that designers play a real role in this world. And they solve problems, even if that problem is making something beautiful that wasn't there before. And a lot of these designers have a great sensibility and evolved taste. And no designer, even a fashion designer, is just interested in fashion, right? I mean, you see that like the row, for example. I'm not a row shopper myself, but I'm interested more in like the sort of aura of the row and actually the world that they've built rather than the clothes itself, because the taste is interesting, how they design the stores, the antiques they collect, the other like third party things that they're bringing in, the art that they post. So there's definitely appetite for that sort of thing, I would say.

Speaker 1:
[29:21] For sure. I totally agree. I mean, I am a shopper of the row, unfortunately, for my bank account, not as much as I used to be. But I have always appreciated their guidance on that kind of stuff. Like seeing what furniture they have in the store, seeing which, they are the reason Charvet slippers have become so popular with Americans because they had them in the store 10 years ago or whatever.

Speaker 3:
[29:47] Yeah. I mean, Bodhi is another good example. Yes. He has created a world. I think any good brand is really world building, and you're not building a world unless you're considering environment, furniture, lighting, textiles. So I think those opportunities absolutely exist for fashion brands who are really committed to design.

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Speaker 1:
[31:17] As a consumer of fashion and an executive in a parallel industry and an observer, I was curious to talk really briefly with you. I did a little summary up top on Friday of the Kering Capital Markets Day. But it's really interesting because on Monday in my newsletter, I have this basically a summary slash fact check of this sweeping three part series that this news magazine in Paris, this French news magazine did on LVMH. It is called Le Nouveau Obs. So I assume it used to be like it's the new observer basically. It's a very reputable publication. I interviewed 30 people on Arnaud's succession. And so basically what I did was I went through and found the things that I thought our readers who know a lot about Arnaud and LVMH, Bernard Arnaud and LVMH and his succession plan, he is 77, would be still interested in it. And then I went to my sources, very close to the board and said like what was right about the, and most of it was right. There are things that I think because the family, from what I understand the family didn't speak to them, or at least most of the family didn't speak to them. Who knows? Like I don't have all the tapes, so I can't tell you if they did, but it's definitely doesn't feel, Get low on the tapes. Yeah, it doesn't feel like everyone got their chance to have a say or decided to have a say. So I like did some fact checking of like, this is what I know from my reporting is actually the context here. But anyway, there's that. And then I was talking to a friend who's an executive in Paris who said, it's of shame that this like, in the summary for you, who's is that like these people are just, it's just family drama. And they're all, they're all very hard workers who want to do a good job for their dad. And the stuff in this article, like, I swear to God, I didn't want to know. Like, I don't want to know who that there was a fight at Christmas dinner. I'm not interested. I have my own family shit. Like, no, thank you. Anyway, the point being that like, they're gonna have to figure out a way to manage it better. It's never gonna go away. There are five kids. There's a succession situation until a succession. Even when the succession happens, there's still gonna be drama. But it's so much because they are, they are such like type A good little workers that there is nothing else to talk about, but these little spats between them. And I just find it like, I'm much more interested when one of the messes up their business or does well in their business to write about that. But anyway, the point being that one of my friends who's an executive said, it's just too bad that that's happening because they're actually managing their business in this luxury crisis so much better than Kering, which has this new CEO, this guy, Luca DeMeo, who's gonna turn around the business. And Gucci is doing better, like it was up in the US for the first time in a long time and Dem, the new designer there, I think he will figure it out. It's gonna take a minute, but this guy Luca came from Renault and he's a cars guy and he wants to be really efficient, but also allow the efficiency in making the supply chain easier will allow for more creativity. That's his argument. But I would say like at this Kering Capital Market today, there was a lot of skepticism. People really like him, but they're kind of like, the reason that these companies are successful is because there's so much inefficiency, make so many mistakes. And I'm curious as someone who like is pretty knowledgeable about the industry, but then also a consumer, what do you think about the brands in that portfolio like Gucci, Saint Laurent, Bottega? Do you as a consumer who you have Valentino shoes but you're not buying a new handbag every week, do you think that maybe not, you don't even have to name a brand specifically, but do you think there's desirability in luxury fashion now at full price?

Speaker 3:
[35:32] For me personally, not really. I do admire it from a design and craftsmanship standpoint for certain brands, yes. I think that really comes through in something like Bottega. It depends. I think some of the leather goods houses, especially, it's really in their DNA. So you can see it coming through in the product, and then especially how they're sort of expanding upon that. But for straightforward fashion and sort of how that's being repeated over time, I don't know. I don't know. Probably not for me. I think in the Kering portfolio, they have, I believe, maybe just one home goods brand. It's January 1735.

Speaker 1:
[36:19] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[36:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:20] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[36:21] Which, you know, obviously, they have a big flagship here in Milan.

Speaker 1:
[36:26] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[36:26] And people love that the sort of patterned look and like table setting and dishware is really coming back, and they've done some fun stuff. So that's on my mind. But yeah, in terms of luxury fashion, no. I'd say there are very few things that call out to me as must haves, but design people do do it a little different. I would say it's less about labels and it's more about silhouette, about the design of the thing itself.

Speaker 1:
[36:55] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[36:56] Yeah. That's why some of the old Celine stuff still really hits because the actual design or the shape of the thing is still so appealing and so it's the design and the function of it. Even if it's a luxury good, it's more about that than the label itself. And so I would probably approach it differently as a design person than a fashion person.

Speaker 1:
[37:16] Yeah. I keep making jokes. Well, I really had a hard time getting dressed for this. I'm not really a fashion dresser anyway. Like I did buy a Chanel jacket. Everybody's obsessed with the fact that I bought a Chanel jacket, but I'm not like wearing head to toe the look of the season. Like I wear a lot of classic stuff.

Speaker 3:
[37:35] For the record, Lauren Sherman looked really hot on Saturday night. I did. She looked great.

Speaker 1:
[37:40] But I was wearing jeans, but I was wearing these amazing. The interesting thing is I was wearing these white Sergio Rossi design by my friend, Paul Andrews, these white shoes that honestly, I probably wouldn't wear them to Fashion Week because I'm like a reporter at Fashion Week, but I'm going to wear them tonight again. I think they're very comfortable and also they're white and amazing. Maybe I would wear them to Fashion Week, but the point being that I'm not like a pleats-please person, I keep saying. Which is very, but it's like architectural and it feels more like art shows.

Speaker 3:
[38:15] Issei has other lines that are not pleats. Pleats can be a little tough because of the synthetic fabric. I think that's the hard line for me.

Speaker 1:
[38:24] Yeah, I'm a fan. I love it. It doesn't look right on me. Me too. I've tried it. I had a really good dress that was like a swirly black and gray print, but I lost it on a trip in Portland or somewhere.

Speaker 3:
[38:37] Well, for the design gals, I would say Julia Hoyer is the new Issei.

Speaker 1:
[38:45] Interesting. Okay, that's great. We need to shop the show. So the one final question I have for you is-

Speaker 3:
[38:53] One more thing I would say too. I think maybe I made a glib comment to you a week or two ago that only a marketing person would be wearing a black blazer at Solene, but I am actually wearing a black blazer today. I'm wearing a full suit, but it's like a relaxed suit. Then in fact, my friend, Erin Wiley wrote about relaxed suits at her newsletter today. A good friend of mine who's a curator also has very chic sense of style. She was wearing a full suit today. So I mean, it's kind of a thing, just like, but be relaxed about it.

Speaker 1:
[39:27] Yeah. I'm wearing a black skirt suit to my dinner tonight. I mean, well, yeah, because it's Tuesday. I'm wearing a Dario Versace black skirt suit that I borrowed from Versace that was previously worn by Jessie Buckley. And it is amazing. I saw it on Jessie Buckley and I knew it would fit me. And I called the publicist and I said, I need this for my dinner in Milan. I'm going to wear it. It was, so thank you to everyone involved, including Jody Chan, my very good friend, who was the head of comms in the US of Versace, for making this happen for me. She's one of the only publicists in the world that I would call a very good friend, publicly at least. They don't want people to know, but she and I are ride or die. But thank you to Jody, because it like literally, it's amazing. But it is funny, I did not bring as much, many blazers as I would, because of the fact that you said that, because I'm a blazer girl. I did bring a Pline Sood, Pline Sood, that brand, a vintage, and I wore that on Sunday. But I didn't bring a lot of blazers, because you were like, no blazers. And I was like, oh, that's like all I wear. But it's been fun. But it's been interesting. So one, non-fashion related. If there was one thing, because this is running on Tuesday, so there's still days, there's still time, if you're in town.

Speaker 3:
[40:54] Oh yeah, so many days.

Speaker 1:
[40:55] If there was one thing you would suggest going to, I think that if you're really like bookie and you're an internetty person and you're like on the internet with Miyako Balitze, I think the Jill thing is cool. Like I would go to that and you can go and stand there for an hour and look at books and calm down. It was hot in there, but it's not, there's no air conditioning in Europe. But what would be the thing that you would suggest that's like has nothing to do with fashion that people should go to?

Speaker 3:
[41:25] I actually have two. Can I give you two? Okay. Please, yes. Number one, there is a gallery, a small gallery named Emanuela Campoli. There is a show that is up right now called Verdant Garden. It's a pair of designers from, artist designers, I don't know, the line's pretty mixed, who live in France and it is small. I don't want to ruin it because it's a very intimate show, but absolutely worth stopping by. It's pretty central. So Emanuela Campoli, please go to that.

Speaker 1:
[42:00] I'm gonna go. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[42:02] And then it's open 11 to 6 every day, even though it's closed most of the time. And then the other one is, there is a photography show of this Italian photographer named Carla de Benedetti. And she photographed a lot of these 70s interiors, including these Cheney Bowherry interiors. And I think anyone who's pulling reference images for mood boards, whether in fashion or design, would be super interested in these images because they're kind of like the origin of them, right?

Speaker 1:
[42:38] Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:
[42:39] And she doesn't have a huge presence, certainly outside of Italy, but although she's well known here. And so that is, oh boy. I would probably just look at the Cheney Bowherry archive to figure out where it is. But there is a show, a very small show, and that's worth seeing for sure.

Speaker 1:
[42:57] Those are amazing picks. Kelsey, you always have the thing that you know, your list is like the best list. This is, this is your superpower. This was so fun, you should come back for sure.

Speaker 3:
[43:09] I will come back and I am sorry for being hideously late. I will blame the Milan, the crowds descending upon Milan madly. But maybe, maybe that's, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that's a good thing for design.

Speaker 1:
[43:24] Yeah. And also Kelsey, your hair looks really good. Too bad we're not on video soon. Wow.

Speaker 3:
[43:31] From the person with the best hair in the biz. No, not today.

Speaker 1:
[43:35] I'm getting a blowout tomorrow. I'll see you later.

Speaker 3:
[43:38] Okay. I'll see you at Gucci.

Speaker 1:
[43:39] Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Audacy in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Audacy, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.

Speaker 7:
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