transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Okay, I feel like when someone in your life is expecting a baby, suddenly everyone has opinions. And I know it's a lot, and I've even noticed with my friends, they'll get all these adorable baby clothes, but then once the baby's actually here, they're like, wait, this is not practical at all. Like stiff fabrics are complicated snaps, and that's why everyone has been raving about little sleepies. The fabric is just so soft, it's super stretchy, it just feels like really high quality. They were created by moms who really understand what day to day life is like. So everything is designed to be easy, from diaper changes to just keeping babies comfortable. And they're made to last way longer than typical baby clothes, which I know parents appreciate. They also have the cutest prints and they're always dropping new ones too. So it's kind of fun, but super practical. And honestly, what stands out is how reliable they are. So when you're tired and overwhelmed, you just want something that works and feels good. And if you're expecting or dressing little ones, check out Little Sleepies. You can visit littlesleepies.com and use promo code PODSPRING26 for 15% off full price products. That's P-O-D-S-P-R-I-N-G-2-6 for 15% off full price products. This episode of Off The Vine is brought to you by Macy's. Go to macys.com, browse their gift guide, get inspired and knock it out before Mother's Day sneaks up on you. Figs right now, if you go to wherefigs.com and use code FIGSRX, you can get 15% off your first order.

Speaker 2:
[01:26] You're listening to Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe.

Speaker 1:
[01:31] Hey, Vinos, real quick, if you are listening right now, which obviously you are, you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on? Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize. It allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be, obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm gonna ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey everybody, welcome to Off The Vine Podcast. I'm your host, Kaitlyn Bristowe. I love this man, Ken Rideout, you guys. I'm friends with him in the real world and he wrote a book and I was like, you must come on my podcast and talk about your stories because he has lived about five, maybe 10 different lives in one life. He was a full blown opioid addict for 10 years while working Wall Street, making money, looking completely put together on the outside. He was actually working with Wall Street while he was in London when 9-11 happened. Fast forward, he's now the fastest marathon runner in the world, over 50 years old, in the world, winning some of the hardest races on the planet and it's just his mindset will blow your mind just hearing him speak through this podcast. So the question is, one extreme to the next, how does somebody go from addiction to that level of discipline? And he really believes that everyone listening, everyone watching, you are capable of whatever your dreams are made of. And he really makes you believe that on this podcast. So I wondered if it really is a transformation or just the same intensity pointed into a different direction, which I'll let him answer. So please welcome my friend, Ken Rideout. We're going to jump right in. You were a full blown opioid addict for 10 years in your thirties while working on Wall Street, making money, building a life, looking successful on the outside. Then you become the fastest marathon runner in the world over 50, in the world. What a stat.

Speaker 3:
[03:21] At the race that was considered the age group world championships, I won. Now, is there a guy in Kenya who's faster than me, who's a former pro runner? Probably, probably. But it's like, if you win, if you win the hundred meter dash at the Olympics, you're the Olympic champion, you're the best in the world. Is there a guy who was like not there for whatever reason that there might be a guy that can beat me over 50, but on the day that mattered, I beat them all.

Speaker 1:
[03:44] That's incredible. And then also two very completely lives you've lived.

Speaker 3:
[03:48] A very different, very different. Not even two, ten.

Speaker 1:
[03:52] Ten, all through your thirties. Do you feel like your thirties, you just lived a 10 different lives or you mean over your whole life?

Speaker 3:
[03:57] Over the course of my life, like growing up in the inner city in Boston, then I worked as a guard in a prison. My stepfather had been an inmate there when I was a kid. Then my brother ended up being an inmate there when I was working there. So that's how I paid for college. Then I went to college, had dreams of being a professional athlete, got cut from my hockey team my junior year. My life kind of like spiraled, started doing coke and drinking like a nut, fighting with my friends in Boston, like really hanging out with like, I mean, my friends who I love are all good people now. There's a lot of them are successful. A couple of them are dead from overdose, but it was a rough place. I remember being in New York for a couple of years and saying to someone, dude, you know, I've been to a bar out here so many nights. I've never seen a fist fight. And they're like, why would that be surprising? I was like, if I went out with my friends in Boston, it would be very rare if someone didn't get into a fist fight.

Speaker 1:
[04:48] Crazy.

Speaker 3:
[04:48] It was crazy aggressive place.

Speaker 1:
[04:50] What is in the water or the beer out there that makes you guys just so?

Speaker 3:
[04:53] Anyone from Boston hearing this will be like, yeah, that's accurate. But I get to other people that be like, oh, he's full of shit. That's not really true. It's true. Like it was a crazy aggressive, violent place.

Speaker 1:
[05:03] I also know you and cannot imagine you on cocaine.

Speaker 3:
[05:08] It's a terrible thought. But I was telling someone the other day, there is nothing more like uplifting and happy than the moment you call someone to tell them to bring you cocaine. And from there, it just goes down and it slowly goes downhill until it crashes off the side of a cliff. And you're like, what have I done? And then, you know, a week later, I'm like, let's do that again. And then I'm like, that's crazy. It's crazy. Horrible. But that that cocaine run didn't last long. Once the opioids got me, though, I took opioids the first time. And for 10 years, I took them all day, every day, morning, lunch and dinner, morning, lunch and dinner. You were just every single day. If I didn't take that, if I missed one of those three cycles, I would be in full blown withdrawals.

Speaker 1:
[05:49] And what would that life look like for you? Your day to day, like functioning, totally normal, going to work, getting shit done.

Speaker 3:
[05:57] I would never look like Tiger Woods on the side of the road, like completely, like completely out of it. I never took enough to be incapacitated. I'd go to work and take them and I'd just be like, you know, I'd be either happy and euphoric or extremely irritable and like grouchy and aggressive.

Speaker 1:
[06:13] And you didn't know which version of you you're going to get?

Speaker 3:
[06:16] I knew when I took the pills, you were going to get the happy like, let's go version. So I would time them out to take them before I had to be like on.

Speaker 1:
[06:23] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[06:23] And try to time the, you know, in between period. It got to the point where it was no longer like, I felt high when I took them. I just didn't feel sick. Cause once you get into a certain state of that addiction, you're just trying to stay well. You're just trying not to be sick. And if, and if I would-

Speaker 1:
[06:39] And it doesn't take long to get addicted.

Speaker 3:
[06:41] One week is all it takes to establish a new addiction.

Speaker 1:
[06:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[06:44] A new habit, seven days. But it only takes seven days of sobriety to get clean. The problem is by day two, three, four, you're sicker than you've ever been. And you know, you can stop it at any time by taking the drugs again. And the balls that it takes to get to that seventh day is what took so much effort that I didn't have the balls to do it for 10 years. By the way, the whole time I'm doing this, I know, can I curse on here?

Speaker 1:
[07:09] Of course.

Speaker 3:
[07:10] The whole time I'm doing this, I know I'm a dead dog loser. But in my heart, I'm like, I'm a good person. I'm a winner. I'm making millions of dollars working in finance. I have everyone fooled. No one knows. I never was concerned like someone's gonna find out because, you know, when you're when you're doing this, you're like, you think you're smarter than everyone. So people, I don't think anyone ever thought I was on drugs. I just think that they thought that I was like unstable and aggressive, like overly aggressive, because that's how my irritability came out. And I didn't grow up thinking I'm a tough guy and I'm gonna beat people up and I never did. But I put on a front of like, I'm gonna act so tough that you don't even want to test me. And my wife would be like, well, you told that guy not to get in front of you at the airport. What were you gonna do if he turned around and said, let's fight? I say, I was gonna punch him as hard as I could in his face. And she's like, and then what? I go, then we'd have a fight and hopefully someone will break it up if Casey was getting the better of me.

Speaker 1:
[08:01] That is a wild mindset.

Speaker 3:
[08:03] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[08:04] Like, well, cause you grew up, I mean, you were really honest about growing up around drugs and chaos, which probably like shaped a lot of that.

Speaker 3:
[08:12] But as a kid, I was scared of everything. I was really scared. I walked into a boxing gym at about 15 years old. I didn't wanna be in a fight. I was so scared, just like everyone. No one wants to get in a fight. I don't wanna get in a fight now. I've just come to terms with it as a technical, if I did have a fight and I have had a few, not many as an adult, but if you do, you just realize like, this is happening. I'm gonna try to be as calm as I can. While punching. Yeah, and just execute what I know I need to do. But as a kid, I was scared shitless, like anxiety ridden and there were fights all. And I got in a lot of fights. So I walked into the boxing gym. I mean, you were talking about being scared, man. It wasn't like, hey, we're doing Tai Bo. This is like the heavyweight champion of the world at the Somerville boxing club. No one was in there like, hey, welcome in. Let me get your hand wraps. They were like, do you have gloves? No. Do you have hand wraps? Have you have a box? No, no. Can you afford twenty dollars a month? I said, I can do that. They're like, all right, yeah, come over here. I'm going to show you how to wrap your hands. And they just started training me. You didn't have to hire a trainer. A trainer there was just like, all right, this kid wants to fight. Let's get him trained up.

Speaker 1:
[09:14] And you were 15.

Speaker 3:
[09:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[09:16] And at what age was it that you watched your uncle shoot up heroin? Like, that'll give you anxiety.

Speaker 3:
[09:21] Oh, that was at like seven, eight years old.

Speaker 1:
[09:23] What? So, your environment growing up was obviously, like I just said, like chaos.

Speaker 3:
[09:30] Chaos.

Speaker 1:
[09:31] Was that part of what got you into boxing? Like, you were like, I've got to toughen up and deal with all this?

Speaker 3:
[09:36] Just the fear of everything going on around me is what got me into it. And when I was, maybe I was 16, because I could drive, because I must have just gotten a driver's license and I got a car as soon as I could, and I drove to the boxing club and started taking boxing lessons. So I could at least figure, okay, at least if I don't want any trouble, but if trouble finds me, I want to know that I can at least defend myself. And every day I'd go there more scared than the next, but I just kept showing up. It became a theme in my life, like running. I just kept showing up. And before you know it, you're like, whoa.

Speaker 1:
[10:05] Win or die trying is your whole thing.

Speaker 3:
[10:06] Yeah, and before you know it, you're like, I'm pretty good at this. Well, you should be. You've been doing it for every day for several years.

Speaker 1:
[10:11] I mean, never have those words come out of a Canadian's mouth. Like, I'm just scared and I just got to go ahead and tough it up and you never know what kind of fight you're going to get.

Speaker 4:
[10:18] I'd be like, oh, my God.

Speaker 1:
[10:19] But I feel like kind of like addiction was almost normalized for you in your life.

Speaker 3:
[10:24] Yes. But as a kid, I hated everyone around me. I hated that what was happening around me. I didn't want any part of it. I was disgusted with them all.

Speaker 1:
[10:32] Like close family or uncle or was it your dad?

Speaker 3:
[10:34] My parents were divorced. I lived with my mother and my I have a brother 11 months younger, who's like a career criminal in and out of prison. And then my mother had another son who's eight years younger than me with a new husband. And we lived in my grandmother's two family house. My grandfather died very young when I was very young. And so was my grandmother in this two family, like, you know, triple decker house in the inner city. And we lived downstairs from her. And she, my mother's brother, my uncle, lived with his mom, my grandmother, and he was a heroin addict full time. So him and his buddy, and they were like punk rockers. So they had like Ramones shirts and like, which was not cool. Like I was an athlete. I was like, this is not cool. And those guys would be shooting heroin. And then occasionally like they would rob drug dealers or stiff a drug dealer. And they'd come over and beat, guys, grown men would come over and beat the shit out of them. And I was like, as a little kid, I'm like, yo, traumatizing. I'm talking hurting them, like pummeling them. And I'm like, there's nothing more traumatizing than watching one man pummel another man on the street.

Speaker 1:
[11:38] Oh God. That makes me like sick to my stomach just even thinking about it.

Speaker 3:
[11:41] Makes me, me too.

Speaker 1:
[11:42] So then did you ever think you would go down that path? No. Because it just took an ankle injury for you to get addicted to opioids.

Speaker 3:
[11:48] As a kid, they used to tell me like, you think you're better than us, you're not better than us. And I was like, I definitely do think I'm better than you. I definitely do. I promise I will not stay here. As soon as I can leave, I will. And then working in the prison, which sounds crazy when you're 18 years old, but they were the same people that I knew from the neighborhood. And I walked into the prison the first day and this big Irish gangster, Barry Hiltz, comes running over and grabs me like a fireman's carry, like on his shoulder and like a double leg takedown. And he's running with me. And I'm like in a police uniform. And I'm like, dude, put me down. Not for the other inmates. I was like, the other guards are watching. And he put me down over a distance away and he goes, yeah, the inmates are too. He's like, I need them to know that you're with us. Cause prison is very segregated. Blacks and whites don't really, it's different prisons. It's much more strict. This one wasn't as strict, but still he's like, I need them to know that you're with us. I looked like a little kid. So he was basically saying everyone like, he's my friend.

Speaker 1:
[12:44] Whoa, that's crazy. Because I was just with Julie Chrisley for a while and talking about her experience.

Speaker 3:
[12:49] So scary what happened to them.

Speaker 1:
[12:50] Oh my gosh. And like just to hear her side of like, what she experienced was so insane, but like that was what they call a camp. It wasn't even like a real prison. Like they didn't have the gates around the block. They weren't treated like, but she told me certain stories about the men's prison that was right beside them. And I'm just like the shit that goes down. What did you see the craziest stuff ever?

Speaker 3:
[13:12] Crazy, but I grew up with these people. So none of it was startling to me. It's not like a movie where they're like raping people against their will. When you have a hundred men, the chances are ten of them are gay. There's plenty of guys dressed like women in there. It was just incredibly hostile. But what I would say, the reason that people like the Chrisleys get my attention is because if you're not a street person and you go to prison, you're in trouble. If you're a white guy growing up in Boston, you know the other and you're a criminal and a street guy, you know the other people that do the shit you do. So they get in there like, Oh, hey, what's up, Joe? I interviewed a guy on my podcast, Johnny Bartz, and he went to jail for 27 straight years. He's a hardcore Boston guy. We have a bunch of mutual friends about my age. So I thought he was in the Hells Angels, which I didn't know any motorcycle gang when I was in Boston. He came to Nashville to do the show and he stayed with me. So I was telling him, my wife like, oh, he was in the Hells Angels and I think he went to jail on a drug charge. But I was like, we're having dinner with my kids, four kids, I'm like, oh, you went to jail on a drug charge, right? He's like, no, no, no, I killed someone. And I go, I go, what? What, someone died in a drug deal? He's like, no, I saw a guy in an opposite gang who I thought was trying, said they were gonna do something to me and I ran him over with my car. And I go, what did you do after you ran him over with the car? Started running. I said, why didn't you just drive, keep driving? He goes, cause there was a dead guy stuck under the car.

Speaker 1:
[14:38] My kids are just like eating dinner.

Speaker 3:
[14:40] My wife's like, are there gonna be any murderer, any more murderers coming to stay? But the thing is, I love this guy. He's my friend. But I tell that story to say, when he went to prison, he was like, yeah, as soon as I walked in, they were like, Johnny, you over here, you're with us, like we sit here. Like if someone else was there, they'd be like, all right, hey, you got to go. Johnny sits there now. Same people, same seats. That was federal prison. But point is for the Chrisleys, if you don't know prison life and you don't know people, it's very difficult. Now I've heard Todd's interviews and he was in a lower security prison. Thank God for him.

Speaker 1:
[15:12] He will get himself out of any situation. I mean, well, him and Savannah, but yeah.

Speaker 3:
[15:16] He really worked the system really well that he got into a groove, but he's lucky he was in the place he was in.

Speaker 1:
[15:21] Oh my God, he was like eating Chick-fil-A and like ordering pizza. He had a cell phone.

Speaker 3:
[15:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:26] It's crazy. Yeah, he told me a bunch of that on the podcast and I was like, that's so insane. I have a question. Do you guys feel like you're a good gift giver, or do you absolutely spiral like yours truly, KB? I just feel like I go into every gifting situation being like, okay, I'm going to nail it.

Speaker 2:
[15:44] This is going to be so thoughtful.

Speaker 1:
[15:46] Then somehow I just end up with 47 tabs open, second guessing everything and leaving things in carts. Mother's Day is just one of those things where I actually want to get it right, because it's not just one person. I'm thinking about my mom, my stepmom, my sister, my friends who are moms, even my friends who are fully committed dog moms. I'm like, you deserve something, I see you. There are a lot of people I want to show up for and I want it to feel personal. Then I think what I've realized over time is that the best gifts are when you actually stop trying to be creative and you just pay attention to who that person already is. Like my mom, for example, she loves a beauty routine, she has her go-to products, she loves trying new things, she has her whole little setup. You should see her house, she has a vanity with all these, I don't know, I just always call them potions. So instead of trying to reinvent the old wheel, I'm just going to lean into that. And that's why I love going to Macy's for this because they carry all of the brands I already know that most people love. YSL, Prada, Olaplex, who doesn't love those? It just takes the guesswork kind of out of it. And I'm not experimenting on her face, I'm just getting something I know she will actually use. So my sister's totally different. She's way more minimal and loves pieces that she can wear every day. And so for her, I always lean towards jewelry. I'm just such a believer in jewelry elevating all outfits. So something simple, something classic like a bracelet or a necklace that she can just throw on with anything. And I feel like jewelry is one of those gifts where every single time they wear it, they think of you, which is really cute. And also, I like when my sister thinks about me. And then I have friends who are so good at hosting, and then I love hosting. They go over to their house and you're like, wait, why does this feel like a restaurant but better? Just candles are lit, tables set, everything looks so cute. And I'm like, damn, I brought the wine. Which also looks good on a table. But anyways, for them, I'm just loving getting things for their home, like serving pieces, cookware, things that just elevate what they already love doing. And Macy's has so many options for that as well, which again is dangerous because then I'm like, well, I need this too. But I think the biggest thing I've learned with gifting is to stop overcomplicating it and you don't have to reinvent who they are, just lean into what they already love and go somewhere that actually has options for all of it, because otherwise you're gonna go to five different places trying to figure it all out. So I will die on this hill. A gift card is not a bad gift. Especially if it's to a place they actually shop, like Macy's, it's kind of the best case scenario. I love a gift card. Then you can get exactly what you want, no returns, no fake reactions, like, oh my God, I love it. We've all been there. If you're someone who's like, okay, I want to be thoughtful, but I also need directions, Macy's has a full Mother's Day gift guide online, which is so helpful and it breaks things down by personality, which makes it way easier to shop without spiraling. So if you're starting to think about Mother's Day, which you should, and you want to actually feel good about what you're giving this year, I would definitely check out Macy's. Go to macys.com, browse their gift guide, get inspired and knock it out before it sneaks up on you. Okay, can we talk about the fact that Mother's Day is just coming up so fast? There are a lot of VIPs to celebrate this Mother's Day and some people are just hard to shop for. Hello, I have the answer. Macy's because it takes the pressure off. They really do have something for every single type of mom as she's into beauty. They carry all the brands that you already know she loves like YSL, Prada, Olaplex, diamond bracelets, simple necklaces that feel special and wearable. If she's someone who loves hosting or just making things feel cute at home, even if it's takeout, whatever. They have beautiful home pieces too like cookware, tableware that just elevates everything. Then honestly, if you're still not sure, a Macy's gift card, always a safe bet because then you can let her pick exactly what she wants. They also have a full Mother's Day gift guide online, which makes it just way easier to narrow things down. If you're starting to think about Mother's Day and you want to actually nail your gifts this year, Macy's is a really good place to start. Head to macys.com or go ahead and check out their gift guide to find something perfect for every mom in your life. So going back to your ankle injury, what happened? How did you get the ankle injury? And this is at what, 30?

Speaker 3:
[19:43] So I was in my late 20s, living in New York. I had some, I might have rolled my ankle or something. The guy gave me seven Vicodin, and I took them and I was like, oh my God, this is awesome. So every week I'd go back and get seven more. Seven Vicodin is no big deal. So the guy was thinking nothing of it. I'm like, yeah, I take one at night to go to sleep, but I take them all in like two days, which is crazy, because eventually it would be like seven would be like one serving. And eventually after a few weeks of this, I would change the seven to a two and add a zero and take it to like a small independent pharmacy where I knew they wouldn't check. They're just happy to have the business.

Speaker 1:
[20:20] Attics are smart.

Speaker 3:
[20:22] Very.

Speaker 1:
[20:22] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[20:22] You know, when you see people in prison, I'd always be like, if you took all the energy you put into your crime into like a genuine business, you would be wildly successful. And by the way, that's what I did with running and the things that I do now. I put the same energy that I used to get drugs. I was awesome at getting drugs.

Speaker 1:
[20:39] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[20:39] I would get drugs in London. I got drugs in Thailand. And even though it was like, if you get caught with drugs, you're going to jail for the rest of your life. I justified everything that I did. One time I walked into a pharmacy in LA and convinced them to give me 20 percocet, no prescription, no doctor, nothing.

Speaker 1:
[20:55] How?

Speaker 3:
[20:55] I was just like, I forgot my prescription. I have a broken back. And the guy was like, all right here. Just in an unmarked bottle, just gave and sold them to me.

Speaker 1:
[21:03] Doesn't that freak you out for like the future because anyone can just work the system.

Speaker 3:
[21:10] I don't think now you can get them. I mean, even if you get a prescription.

Speaker 1:
[21:13] Because there's been like opioid crisis like obviously happening.

Speaker 3:
[21:16] There is a, they have new system in place for prescriptions that if you get a controlled substance, it goes into a national database. So if you go, like if you shop doctor shop and go to like one doctor to another, which I've done all that, if you go to another doctor next week and try to get any kind of controlled substance, they'll be like, they'll look, they have to enter it into this system. And they're like, what the f***, you got Xanax two weeks ago from this doctor. You can't do this.

Speaker 1:
[21:39] Right.

Speaker 3:
[21:39] There is a lot, it's very difficult to get away. But now there's so much fentanyl and fentanyl gets pressed into pills to look like oxycontin and fentanyl is like.

Speaker 1:
[21:50] Which is so scary. Can you get pills tested? Like say you got, like if you got prescribed from a doctor, would you be worried about those? Are you talking like on the street? On the street.

Speaker 3:
[22:02] But I have friends that are like big time, like big time musicians and they're banned. And I was talking to them. They were doing coke in the dressing room. I'm like, are you worried that people pull fentanyl in? And the guy looked at me like I was crazy. He goes, dude, we got testing kits right here. We test every bit of coke before we do it. I was like, wow, the drug addicts are getting resourceful.

Speaker 1:
[22:19] Yeah, they're thrifty. They're resourceful.

Speaker 3:
[22:21] But now too, everyone has, I mean, I have Narcan at my house. Like you don't know what if someone gets hit with fentanyl in anything, not that my kids are young, but you see someone overdosing. If you have Narcan, they're going to live. If you don't, they might die. So Narcan is so readily available. They sell in vending machines.

Speaker 1:
[22:38] And Narcan, I have some in my purse. And Narcan also, like, isn't it, it sobers you up immediately, like takes it, but then do you go right into withdrawal mode?

Speaker 3:
[22:47] Yes. People wake up from being hit with Narcan, coming out of a withdrawal, like an overdose, and fly into a rage. Like almost like, why did you save me? Now I'm straight and this, it's, I think it has like a now dextrune, like a blocker type effect.

Speaker 1:
[23:04] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[23:04] So like, if you do more immediately, it doesn't really affect you. It blocks all the opioid receptors from what I understand.

Speaker 1:
[23:09] Yeah, I've heard that too. So then what was, cause did you go off and on so many times? Like what did withdrawals look like for you?

Speaker 3:
[23:16] Imagine having like the worst case of COVID or the flu that you could ever imagine for like a week to 10 days.

Speaker 1:
[23:22] Oh, and you, how, were you with your wife at this time?

Speaker 3:
[23:25] So I met my wife towards the three years before I got sober. So the whole time I'm courting her, I'm high on drugs.

Speaker 1:
[23:32] But does she know this?

Speaker 3:
[23:34] Not really. Eventually she realized like, what is wrong with this guy? Like, cause she spent enough time with me that she was like, this is so unstable and it would get frustrated. We break up, get back together. And I never really came clean to the extent of the addiction until she found me unconscious going through withdrawals before. We got married in 2007. 2010, I had been on Subutex, which is like methadone type drug where you're not really getting high, but you're definitely not sober, at least not for me. And it's just like, you're in this awful purgatory because that's very addictive too. You can't just stop taking it. The withdrawals from that are just as bad as the opioids. So we got matched with my daughter to adopt my daughter from Ethiopia in 2010. And I knew I had two months before we went together and I was like, this is it. I have to get sober. I went to an outpatient detox where they would give me like, every day I'd check in in the morning, they'd give me Ritalin to stay awake during the day. They'd give me Xanax and blood pressure medicine for the evening to try to sleep. If I got to seven days sober, I could then get another drug called Vivitrol, which would block opioid receptors and keep me sober for a month no matter what. You couldn't get high. You could take drugs, but the only thing you could possibly do is overdose because they wouldn't affect you. You would not get high. So I'm like, okay, I can do seven days.

Speaker 1:
[24:50] I can do this and your wife knows this at this point.

Speaker 3:
[24:52] No. She doesn't know.

Speaker 1:
[24:54] You're about to adopt your daughter.

Speaker 3:
[24:56] Right. She doesn't know that I'm doing this outpatient detox. I'm just like, I might be able to get away with this and just do this. I never have to tell her and I'm embarrassed. I don't want to. So around the third or fourth day, I must have gotten up to pee in the middle of the night, passed out in the bathroom. She comes in, freaks out. When I wake up, I'm like, oh my God, and I'm looking at her and looking at the balcony. We were on the 50th floor of this gorgeous high rise, glass building in Manhattan, and I was like, I'm just going to run and jump off the balcony. I don't want to be alive. I hated myself. I was so disgusted. I'm like, I'm a loser. But I was doing everything right except this. I just told her everything. She was like, wow. Her jaw was on the floor. Then she was like, after she came out of her shock, she was like, well, let's just get through the next few days and we'll see. It will be good. For her, it was over quickly. Then I got sober and then you haven't touched since. No, I have definitely made mistakes along the way, but not catastrophic. Again, no one was ever like, oh my God, look, he relapsed. It would be only I would know.

Speaker 1:
[26:03] Interesting. So your wife is a saint.

Speaker 3:
[26:06] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[26:06] I mean, I've met her and I loved her immediately. But she really stood by you. What did that teach you about her?

Speaker 3:
[26:13] Oh my God, she's done so much. Even after the addiction stuff, and then marriage is very difficult. When you're dating someone, you're hanging with your best friend, you're sleeping in, you're going vacation here, it's all fun. When you have children, now you run a deadly serious business together and there's no days off. For five years, each kid, when they're born, they're not going to go to the bathroom, have a bite of food or anything without one of you. So all of a sudden, it's like we run a business together. The fun stuff is put on hold. Like your life that you knew is over for better or worse. And like it's great having kids, but it would be naive to be like, oh yeah, this is a barrel of laughs. And I have no problem not picking up and going skiing at the last minute in Aspen. Through that, it's been challenging. Her dream job is to be a mom. I wanted to have kids more than anything, but she's like living her best life. But I'm like, I always say to her like, when we have disagreements, I'm like, you're doing all the things you love. Like I still have to go out in the world and deal with these monsters and like deal with the slings and arrows and pitchforks. So I said, recognize like we have different, we're going through a different experience. Like I want to take it easy sometimes, but it's like, I have four kids. So it's been difficult, but to my wife's credit, she's the one that holds it all together. I think if she had ever been like, F this, get out of here. I can't deal with you anymore that like, and I think that goes for a lot of marriages, that if one person isn't holding it together, it would be very easy for it to fall apart. Because like many times in my life I've quit at many things. It's like a theme in the book. Like once you know the sting of quitting, it stays with you forever. You can never shake it. It's like there's a part of me that was, is like always a drug addict loser. It sucks. I don't want that feeling. And I don't want to have the feeling of like going to the Ironman in Hawaii the first time, getting on the run and being like, this is hard, I'm going to quit, which I did. And it changed the course of my life. Cause I was like, I will never feel like that again. I will never quit. It might seem petty and trivial to people who are like, who gives a shit about some run and race? I care. And guess whose opinion matters to me? Only my own.

Speaker 1:
[28:17] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[28:17] Because I can't be concerned about the opinions of other people other than my wife and children.

Speaker 1:
[28:21] Right.

Speaker 3:
[28:22] So point is, I have given up on a lot of things in my life. And if my wife had not like been so strong to hold everything together, this whole thing could have collapsed like a house of cards.

Speaker 1:
[28:31] I mean, it's so I love the story about the adoption with your daughter, too, because there's so many I've heard a few stories like this, where you go to Ethiopia, you're finally sober, you're staying there. You didn't only advocate for you and your daughter, but for other families to be able to bring your kid home. Yeah. But your wife had to stay there for six weeks in Ethiopia. You guys had struggled to get pregnant. This is why you were adopting.

Speaker 3:
[28:56] No, no, we were going to adopt anyway. So we had started the adoption process and it took three years. But for three years, every single month, we tried to get pregnant. But no, no one had any issues. We couldn't figure it out, just unexplained infertility. And she just wasn't getting pregnant.

Speaker 1:
[29:11] Right. So then you're in Ethiopia, you leave, she stays with your daughter.

Speaker 3:
[29:14] Yeah, we were there together for a week.

Speaker 1:
[29:16] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[29:16] And went down to this resort. She was in this little town south of Addis Ababa, the capital. She must have got pregnant that week. So I come home, back to work, and she's living in this guest house in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, which is not like the Four Seasons. It's rough, but she's toughening out. She's just having a great time. But my daughter is super sick. She has Jardia, she can't keep any food down. She's losing weight. And she only weighed like seven pounds at four months old. Incredibly malnourished and couldn't keep food down. So we're like going to emergency rooms in Addis Ababa. So I fly back for Thanksgiving and bring a pregnancy test. She's pregnant, but she had been pregnant. We had done seven rounds of in vitro. She had three miscarriages. So when she was pregnant, we were like, okay, you know, okay, we've been here before. Let's see what happens. So she came home on Christmas day, sorry, on one week before Christmas on the 17th, went straight to the doctor from the airport and had an ultrasound, I think an ultrasound. And they were like, yep, you're pregnant. It's all good. Like looking good. So from the minute we had my daughter until my son was born, like we were either pregnant or had other children with her. So she never got to be like the only child.

Speaker 1:
[30:21] That's so crazy. Because now having four children, going through all of that to now be like, and now we have like the full house.

Speaker 3:
[30:28] An army.

Speaker 1:
[30:29] An army. That is such a cool story, though. Do you feel like that's what it is? Like when you let go of the stress of trying to get pregnant? Or what do you think that is? Because I've heard that story.

Speaker 3:
[30:39] I'm like a big science guy. So I'm like, cut the shit. That doesn't make any sense, right? Don't give me this hocus pocus. But I know it's hard to deny that that's what happened. I mean, the minute she had a baby in her arm, she was like, all right, I'm fertile. Let's go give it to me.

Speaker 1:
[30:54] Right.

Speaker 3:
[30:56] And then she had two more after that. And it was like, so now we have three biological boys and an adopted daughter.

Speaker 1:
[31:01] They're great kids.

Speaker 3:
[31:03] My kids are very nice kids.

Speaker 1:
[31:04] They are nice kids. They stand up, they shake your hand, they ask questions like very good job on the parents. And for someone who's listening, raising kids and obviously you being a dad, how do you protect your children from the things that you were exposed to without overcorrecting and like living in fear?

Speaker 3:
[31:23] It's very difficult. I want to protect them from everything. Anytime they make a mistake, I'm like, what are you doing? Don't do this. Don't do that. It's like, but that's my own insecurities. Like I've got to let them figure out things for themselves, but they've all read the book. They know they ask me questions about it. And you know, even with cursing, I curse too much. And they're like, if I catch them cursing, I'm like, dude, what are you doing? And they're like, dad, you curse. I go, you sound like a moron. Only idiots curse. And they're like, you curse every day. I'm like, yes, I'm an idiot. I'm like, it shows a total lack of intelligence. You don't have any more vocabulary words you can use. So it's like, I know all that. That's the last habit I have to give up cursing. But I try to be very honest with the kids about everything. Like they're part of my life. They're like my friends, but I'm also their dad. I mean, there's no, like, believe me, there's no gray area. They know like, my dad will kill me. I hear them talking like my son, my oldest son will have buddies come over and they'll be clowning around or something. I heard my son one time say, dude, my dad will kill us. Do not do that. I love that.

Speaker 1:
[32:19] You got to instill the fear in them while also being their friend. That's good.

Speaker 3:
[32:23] But since the book has come out, that's like my greatest accomplishment in life because I know that they're super proud because all their friends' parents have read the books. They asked me to sign books for their teachers and that part of it's been incredible.

Speaker 1:
[32:35] Shout out to anyone in healthcare for a second because how are you on your feet for hours doing the Lord's work and still expected to look put together? I don't understand. My best friend Kat works at Indy Skincare Clinic and whenever she's there, nonstop, clients back to back, moving all day, somehow, she always looks so cute and I always think it's cause of her figs. My vet the other day, I think I told you guys this before, wearing figs, the sweetest little like pastel pink color and just beyond how they look, they're made for real life shifts. They're lightweight, breathable, have stretch, even antimicrobial, which feels very necessary. Plus the little details, the functional pockets, the clean lines and colors that you actually want to wear. They have the cutest colors. It just makes such a difference. So whether you're in a clinic, a hospital, just running to grab coffee after a long shift, you deserve to feel good in what you're wearing. So go to figs.com and use code FIGSRX for 15% off your first order. That's wearfigs.com, promo code FIGSRX.

Speaker 4:
[33:31] Hey sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck.

Speaker 1:
[33:37] Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer.

Speaker 4:
[33:40] Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair.

Speaker 2:
[33:48] It's done.

Speaker 4:
[33:48] The car is gone.

Speaker 2:
[33:49] I'm holding a check.

Speaker 4:
[33:50] Anyway, Carvana, give it a whirl.

Speaker 2:
[33:53] Love you. So good, you'll want to leave a voicemail about it.

Speaker 4:
[33:56] Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.

Speaker 1:
[34:06] How would you describe the book? For someone that's gonna read it, what are the takeaways? What are they gonna learn?

Speaker 3:
[34:10] Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think that they're going to learn that your life is whatever you decide it's going to be. I hope that people look at that, read that book, look at me and recognize I'm the most average person in the world on the surface. All of the things and all the accomplishments from the book were controlled by my brain. It's not physical, I'm like a very, you see me, I'm like 5'10, 170 pounds. I am not extremely muscular. I'm not particularly handsome. I'm just like a guy who just decided I will never accept mediocrity from myself. And whatever I do, I did with 110% conviction. So when I started running, I wasn't trying to win races. I was just trying to run as fast as I could and be the best person I could be and be sober. And very quickly, I started winning races, started to get a little bit of attention. And then everything happens small until it happens big. But there was no intention of being like, I didn't want to be an influencer. I'm not a creator. I'm a person who's doing shit. And sometimes I talk about it on my Instagram. Whereas there are so many influencers out there that are like, I'm handsome and I'm extremely muscular. Therefore, listen to me wax poetic on life. And I'm like, you're an idiot. You were born handsome and you lift weight successively. Other than that, you have zero accomplishments. Other than you know how to edit video and make cool like transitions, like grow up. Stop following people that haven't done anything. So I would say my book doesn't tell you how or what to do about anything, it just tells you what I did. Here's how I shot myself in the foot by getting into an addiction that is incredibly shameful. But here's how I turned it into an incredible superpower that now I get paid money to go and talk to people about the most embarrassing thing I've ever done. Become a drug addict. When I was in the throes of my addiction, I was suicidal. I never thought that I would ever tell anyone about this. It has become the greatest gift I've ever given myself, which I wish I didn't have, but I do. So I've made the most of it. And every time there's been a setback, quitting when I went to the Ironman in Hawaii, which to me was like qualifying for the Olympics at the time. To go there and quit and feel like such a piece of crap and then use that as motivation to come back the next year and like do a phenomenal race and get like, start to get attention. And then I want to raise the picture on the cover of the Lucas from the Gobi March across the Gobi Desert in Mongolia that I signed up for like for one of the hardest races in the world, 155 miles across the desert.

Speaker 1:
[36:35] Are you kidding me? 155 miles.

Speaker 3:
[36:38] And I had never run an ultra marathon. I had never run with a backpack. I had never slept in a tent. And a friend of mine who was the CEO at Equinox, Scott Daru said he was doing that race a month before. And I said, you think they'll let me in? I bet you I can kill everybody. And he was like, are you crazy? And I emailed the director and I did. And they were like, you're in. And then I had an immediate anxiety attack and then started training. And I went there and I won. By 90 minutes.

Speaker 1:
[37:05] Casual.

Speaker 3:
[37:06] And then the Wall Street Journal wrote about me, the New York Times, Forbes, Muscle and Fitness. Like it was the like longest overnight success in history. And all of a sudden I was like, holy shit. People even know I'm alive. I can't believe this is happening.

Speaker 1:
[37:20] I love that you get to now have a platform to share your story. I hate when people have a platform who shouldn't have a platform. 100%. I can't even get over that. What is your mindset in that moment when you're doing that? What's going on up here? I would be like, get me the out of here.

Speaker 3:
[37:37] I think that it's funny, you know, the Farley brothers? Yeah. One of them is reading the book and was like telling a buddy, sent me a screenshot of the text saying like, dude, I got to talk to you about this book. It's incredible.

Speaker 1:
[37:48] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[37:48] I think there's a whole movie just about the race in Mongolia, like with flashbacks to my life, because I started training. I'm scared shitless. I don't know what to expect. I don't know any of the...

Speaker 1:
[37:58] Did you have to train? Like what did you do to train?

Speaker 3:
[37:59] I'd put on a backpack with like 20 pounds of weight, towels and bottled water in Nashville in June. It's like a thousand degrees. And I just started running like 20 miles every day. My neighbors would see me and be like, anytime I meet anyone in Nashville, anyone, they're like, are you the guy that runs?

Speaker 1:
[38:17] I'm like, yeah, that's me.

Speaker 3:
[38:18] And now, even this morning, people stop me every single time. They're like, Ken, Ken. And I'm like, oh, let me stop my stop. What's up, man? They're like, dude, love the book. And I'm like so happy for it. But I'm like, you know, I'm working right now, right? It's like stopping me from painting a house. Hey, stop working for a minute. But yeah, the race in Mongolia, I just, when I started training, I was incredibly panicked. But I remember, I've told this story before, but when my wife's driving me to the airport and she's like, oh my God, you're going to Mongolia. Are you happy? I'm like, no, I'm not effing happy. I'm scared to death. Like I'm going to make a fool of myself. I have sponsors. Like I have huge responsibilities. What if it doesn't go right? There's so many variables I don't know about. I had to carry for six days, every single thing in that backpack that I needed, including food for six days.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] What is it, just like canned tuna?

Speaker 3:
[39:05] No, it's like free, you know, like camping food, like MREs, add water to freeze dried food. No, I never get sick.

Speaker 1:
[39:11] You didn't get sick?

Speaker 3:
[39:12] No, not at all.

Speaker 1:
[39:13] Total normal bowels?

Speaker 3:
[39:15] Oh, by the way, you also had to have your own toilet paper in there. There's no toilet. You had to like to handle business. Like it was, when I go to run a race.

Speaker 1:
[39:22] You need to go on Survivor.

Speaker 3:
[39:23] No.

Speaker 1:
[39:24] Oh, just kidding.

Speaker 3:
[39:25] I hate that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:
[39:26] What, really?

Speaker 3:
[39:27] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:27] What, like reality TV?

Speaker 3:
[39:29] Just dealing with the other people. I'd be like hated immediately cause I would be like, win at all costs.

Speaker 1:
[39:35] I just feel like anything you do, you're gonna win or like-

Speaker 3:
[39:38] I'm gonna try.

Speaker 1:
[39:39] Or you're gonna die trying.

Speaker 3:
[39:40] That's right.

Speaker 1:
[39:41] But that is really your mentality.

Speaker 3:
[39:42] That's what I tell my kids. You don't just get to win. The guy who wins has had a lot of losses and my life is full of losses. It just so happened that the wins got attention, but you don't get the wins without all the kicks up the asses that I got on the way.

Speaker 1:
[39:57] Yeah. Well, I mean, that's such a big part of what I talk about on the podcast as a lot is everybody's rock bottom and what got them until the next point. It's always a rock bottom moment where yours wasn't just one specific.

Speaker 3:
[40:07] Oh, it's over and over. I'm an idiot. I'm like, I'm like one step away from slipping on a banana peel today.

Speaker 1:
[40:13] Well, I know you're like about science and stuff, but every experience that you've had with loss and miscarriage and drugs and the way you grew up, everything, does it change the way you think about like timing control, like even faith?

Speaker 3:
[40:28] It's funny to say that I have recently started like a faith journey and I've had a bunch of people like Steve Weatherford on the podcast who's a hardcore Christian, he was the punter for the Giants, won the Super Bowl twice the fittest man in the NFL, Walter Payton, Man of the Year award. And he came on my podcast to talk about his faith and then talked about some like really like painful like sexual abuse stuff as a kid. And I was just like, and now he's like a man of faith. He's like a pastor. And then I did Nick Baer's podcast and he's really into faith. So he was talking about it. And now people keep posting and sending me messages like, Ken, we're coming to get you. Like we know the Lord is speaking to you with that. You're you're you're being called to serve. You're going to be saved. And I'm like, listen, I'm here for it. I want to be more faithful because I've tried everything else. And in a lot of ways, because of the experiences that I've had, I have a hard time enjoying the success now because I feel like I'm one mistake away from being back at the bottom. So it's constant like drive and push and aggressiveness. And by the way, none of the things that I do would I tell anyone else to do. This is not a tutorial. Like, don't do what I do. I'm like, I could be a lot happier than I am. I'm not professing to have all the answers. People are like, well, you have a running addiction. I'm like, yeah, well, I was addicted to drugs and suicidal. Now I'm addicted to running and have like a best selling book. And I'm like celebrated for being someone who works hard. I don't think that this is the answer, but it's better than the life I had.

Speaker 1:
[41:55] What does running give you that drugs didn't before? Because it is also an addiction, but I think like what you just said, it's almost like you swapped one for the other in a good way, obviously, but what did running start giving you?

Speaker 3:
[42:08] Well, the running gave me a purpose and a focus, whether right or wrong. It just gave me something to pour all of my energy into. And when I'm running and preparing for a race, that's all the time I spend doing that, is time I don't spend agonizing over whether or not to do drugs or obsessing.

Speaker 1:
[42:24] Is there a daily affirmation for you that you have to do?

Speaker 3:
[42:26] I wouldn't say it's an active daily affirmation, but I could tell you that if I didn't run one, I've run a minimum of 10 miles every day for five years. Not as someone said to me, are you on a streak? I'm like, no, dude, I'm like a normal guy. I don't have time to focus on streaks. I just looked up and I was like, oh my God, let me do the calculation. Wow, I ran 10.6 miles every day for five years without missing a day. I missed a day here and there. I had surgery on my shoulder. I had to miss four days when they told me not to run for four weeks.

Speaker 1:
[42:55] I worry about people who have that addiction to running because it really is such a way out of a lot of terrible things for people. So what happens if you get injured and what happens if you can't run?

Speaker 3:
[43:06] Well, I've had COVID a couple of times. I couldn't run for three or four days.

Speaker 1:
[43:10] Does that trigger something in your brain?

Speaker 3:
[43:11] No, like when you're really sick and you can't get out of bed, it's not even a second thought. You're like, I'm gonna die.

Speaker 1:
[43:17] That's what I mean about getting injured. Isn't that scary to possibly have to go to some sort of pain meds, be injured, not run?

Speaker 3:
[43:24] When I had the shoulder surgery, I definitely had pain meds. I would never have survived without it. I had a whole reconstruction on my shoulder, but the doctor said, four weeks, don't do anything, arm in a sling. After the fourth day, I had a belt around my neck, holding it with my hand and was just running. By the end of the first week, day seven, I ran 15 miles and it healed and everything, although now it's bothering me again.

Speaker 1:
[43:46] Oh God, you just cracked me up.

Speaker 3:
[43:48] It's been like four years.

Speaker 1:
[43:49] The other thing that shocked me of something that you've been through, which just came to me now, I'm not even looking at in my notes, is who is the person you worked for with Wall Street and that happened when 9-11 happened? Why am I blanking on this person's name? Fitzgerald.

Speaker 3:
[44:02] Oh, Kenneth Fitzgerald?

Speaker 1:
[44:03] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[44:04] I worked there during 9-11 and I was in London. They hired me, I had a contract with a competitor. So right before 9, a few months before 9-11. So go to London until your existing contract runs out because they can't prevent you from working overseas. And I set up their commodities trading business in London. And when I was in the throes of my addiction. So when the whole time I was there, I was like whacked out. But I got sober there for like white knuckled it, went to NA meetings, just one day just stopped doing it. And when full withdrawals got better, while I was there, 9-11 happened. So after that, about six to nine months later, I came back to New York, took over another division of their counterfeit show called Credit Derivatives. And that every time these things happen, these major life things happen, like they've become the springboard for something better. So I took over this desk. It led to other better jobs in finance, like on a sales desk, and then eventually running business development at an asset manager. And then to what I do now, which is like an independent placement agent. But every step of the way through my finance career, I was always had my eyes on like, what's the next step up, like the prestige totem pole of finance.

Speaker 1:
[45:13] Yeah. But that's, were you working like with, like were you six hours ahead in London, trying to get a hold of people?

Speaker 3:
[45:19] No, they were on an open line. We had like a squawk box, so you could just push the button and yell on to the trading desk there. So it was like an open intercom. So they would yell to us like, hey, where is this particular commodity price, for instance? And we would quote them a price, and they would like scream like, buy them, sell them.

Speaker 1:
[45:35] Oh my God, I thought that was just in the movies.

Speaker 3:
[45:37] Yeah, so you always had, yeah, oh, you had two phones like this all the time. They had mute buttons here, so you would be like, what does he want to do? He wants to buy? Hey, I'll buy those from you. Okay, but sold to you. And just like what you would see on a trading desk.

Speaker 1:
[45:48] So then all of a sudden, everyone went silent when?

Speaker 3:
[45:51] No, it started out like what you would imagine. Like, yo, someone just flew a plane into the building below you guys. Like, yeah, yeah, we're hearing it. There's all smoke and shit. We're gonna get out of here, okay. Get out of there. It looks like there's a small fire. And then slowly it's like, yo, are you guys getting out of there? And then it's kind of chaos. And then eventually the communication gets cut off. And it just it just continues to escalate of like, what's going on? Then it's like, obviously, the building's on fire. And then the building falls down. And then you're like, oh, my God, did they get out? But no one who was above that plane crash got out of there. So there was a guy sitting on the desk next to me who was his dad and his brother were in the building talking. You know, obviously, you don't know when the building falls, if they got down or not. Because I had friends that were in that building in 93 when the first terror attack happened, they lit off a bomb in a truck in the parking garage underneath the World Trade Center. And one of the guys I worked with happened to be working on the 83rd floor in the World Trade Center. Dude, walking down 83 stories is so much harder than you could ever imagine. And you're in an internal stairwell with no ambient light. So it's pitch black and the entire thing is filled with smoke and you're shoulder to shoulder with other people, men and women panicking.

Speaker 1:
[47:02] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[47:03] So and you're talking like two or three hours to get out. So when they emerge, everyone is completely black with smoke, like firefighters, the face, everything. All you can see is eyes. So because of that, we were like, OK, they're probably walking down one of the stairs internally. And then obviously, when the buildings fell, we were like, it was it was long enough that they might have gotten out, but none of them did.

Speaker 1:
[47:24] Oh, my God. So then didn't you go back to New York after that?

Speaker 3:
[47:28] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:29] And kept going in that career. Did that change anything for you?

Speaker 3:
[47:33] It was almost like a delayed reaction. Yeah, I don't know if I would call it post traumatic stress, but you just kind of like compartmentalize. Like I had been seeing so many like f'd up things through my childhood and then working in the prison and like that was just like another thing on the like pile of shit that I was dealing with.

Speaker 1:
[47:50] Did you get to unpack that on site?

Speaker 3:
[47:52] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[47:52] OK.

Speaker 3:
[47:53] So at OnSite, I dealt with all of that.

Speaker 1:
[47:55] Yeah. And for people who don't know, which they probably do, because I talk about OnSite a lot, but obviously I'm very familiar with OnSite I've been. Do you feel like it's three days of pretty intense therapy and you go through what is it like 13 hours a day of therapy and you're doing all different like inner child, you're doing equine therapy, you're doing like different talk therapy. Were you there by yourself or were you with a group?

Speaker 3:
[48:15] So I did the individual intensive and went there not really knowing. Like when I was driving there, I felt like I was driving to the electric chair. I was like, I don't want to do this, man. I do not want to do this. And I got there. I didn't even know if they would take my phone. I was just, I didn't ask because I didn't want to know. And when I got there, they took my phone. I was like, oh, I haven't put on any like alerts to say I'm not in town. Like I was just like, I don't know what I thought.

Speaker 1:
[48:39] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[48:40] So when they put me in my room, they sent me to the room. I was a nice there. Then it's nice cabins and stuff. You know how it is.

Speaker 1:
[48:45] It's beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[48:46] And I'm like, what the F? There's three double beds in here. Like one roommate would be a lot of two other men. So there were two other guys and the first guy comes in and super handsome, big guy. And I'm like, hey, what's up, man? You're not supposed to ask anyone their name, just the first name. So Eric comes in. I'm like, hey, what's up, man? And right away, obviously, this guy's an athlete and he's like incredibly handsome. And I'm like, oh, did you play sports in college? Yeah, I played baseball and football. Did you play after college? She's like, yeah, played in Denver and New York Jets. And I'm like, oh, what position receiver? And then I'm like, oh, I know who you are. Eric Decker. And I only say that because we've spoken about, he's in the book. He's cool with me talking about this, but we became like best friends and we basically spent a whole time together. So I had a little schedule taped up on the wall with all the different sessions and I would cross them off. Like we were in prison. I was like, guys, one more day to go. So we just made light of it. And, but you know, we were there to work. It's, it's cost 10 grand. It's not like you're going to go there and like fake your way through it.

Speaker 1:
[49:44] No, you, you have to put you, you have to like my favorite word is surrender to the whole process because otherwise why even go, but had you done there because with, with a chaotic childhood and then everything that you've gone through and then going to that like, was that your first dose of therapy? Cause that's pretty intense. Or have you experienced therapy in the past?

Speaker 3:
[50:03] No, I had been, I had been in therapy, but nothing like that, but I knew enough about therapy to know what was coming. Like it wasn't like I was blindsided and I've been through AA and NA and you know, those are like group therapy sessions. And so I knew enough to know kind of what I was getting into. And I mean, I've, I've tried everything. I did that. I tried five MAO DMT psychedelic therapies.

Speaker 1:
[50:26] Oh, you did?

Speaker 3:
[50:26] Yeah, I'm going to go, I'm going to go do this Ibogaine journey in a couple months.

Speaker 1:
[50:30] You are, you are doing that in a couple of months? Does anything scare you about that?

Speaker 3:
[50:34] I'm scared. Like I'm, I don't know if I would rather do that or like, you know, face jump in a wingsuit. Like that's how I feel like, oh my God, why am I doing this? But I know that my life could be better.

Speaker 1:
[50:46] All right, you guys, we're going to pause right there because there's just so much more to get into with Ken. And trust me, you do not want to miss what's coming next week. We go even deeper in his story mindset and some of the moments that really shaped who he is today. It's a really inspiring conversation. I feel like you're all going to love it. So make sure that you're subscribed and come back this Thursday for part two of the conversation.

Speaker 2:
[51:12] Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. We're coming at you with everything we got! With movies like Pineapple Express, the entire Star Trek film franchise, and Gladiator, and TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, The Fairly Odd Parents, and Ghosts, Pluto TV is always free. Huzzah! Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.

Speaker 4:
[51:42] It's Kail Lowry, join me for Barely Famous. You might think you know me, but trust me, you don't know this version of me. This is where I say what everyone is too scared to ask and ask the questions that nobody wants to answer. I'm talking exes, unexpected guests, viral chaos, messy relationships, really just all of it. Nothing is off limits, nothing is off the record, and yeah, things can get a little unhinged. It's real, it's raw, and it's probably gonna make you gasp at least once. So follow, rate, and review Barely Famous wherever you get your podcasts.