transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:31] Well, hello again. Welcome back to the podcast. Happy Tuesday. Thrilled to have you with us. We do have our latest video coming up later this week. That is the Kia K4 Hatchback versus the Honda Civic, which we also think is its primary competitor. So it's cool to see Kia actually doing a hatchback version of the K4. It's much better looking.

Speaker 3:
[00:49] It's a wagon. It's a wagon, everyone.

Speaker 2:
[00:52] It is a wagon.

Speaker 3:
[00:52] It's a wagon. They're just towing the pool to see how people like it. Well, customers buy, we're not calling it a wagon, but it's a wagon.

Speaker 2:
[01:02] Yes, so we're doing that later this week.

Speaker 3:
[01:03] It's like Toyota with their Crown.

Speaker 2:
[01:06] Yeah, the Crown Signia.

Speaker 3:
[01:08] It's not a wagon, it's a wagon.

Speaker 2:
[01:09] It's an SUV. Well, also, interesting that you bring that up because they introduced that right at the minute Subaru goes, that's enough, we're not doing wagons anymore.

Speaker 3:
[01:16] Yeah, no more wagons, we're doing SUVs because that's what everybody buys.

Speaker 2:
[01:19] I just really want the wagon thing to come around. Anyway, let's hope for the best. That piece comes out later this week on Thursday, so hope you watch that. Welcome back to the podcast with all of the things, the news, three car debates, some questions. There's a lot to run through, so we're gonna dive right in.

Speaker 3:
[01:32] Yeah, we're leaning heavily into the car debates again.

Speaker 2:
[01:34] We're getting a lot of them, it's great. Thank you guys for that, it's really good.

Speaker 3:
[01:38] Let's start with news up front. Does Porsche know their customer or did they know their customer? Did they know their customer or what?

Speaker 2:
[01:46] You and I are gonna be split on this, I think. We'll see, we'll see, we haven't talked about it at all, but you're talking about the new GT3 convertible 911.

Speaker 3:
[01:57] It is the GT3 SC, so there is a slash between SC, so it is not super Carrera, cause I thought SC, super Carrera from the 70s, no, it is sport cabriolet because they had the ST, the sport touring, this is a GT3 cabriolet. You might think it's a GT3 RS because of the GT3 RS bodywork, the composite panels, but in reality, it does not have the RS engine, it's got the 502 horsepower engine with the manual, just like a GT3 with GT3 RS bodywork. And you might think that Porsche decides, huh, don't have too many products in the pipeline, what should we do? What will customers buy? What will our customers just glom on to next? Let's take a Cabriolet and turn it into a GT3 with a GT3 motor and all the GT3 bits underneath, put GT3 RS bodywork on it, the new buckets and carbon everything, so it's lightweight. Interestingly, this is only 3,300 pounds, just over. So it's lighter weight, mainly because of the carbon panels and the magnesium wheels and the lighter brakes and all the jazz, all right?

Speaker 2:
[03:05] Keep trying to sell me, keep going.

Speaker 3:
[03:07] But I think, I'm not a convertible kind of a guy, I'm not into convertibles, I don't think you really aren't too much of there. It's the target on your lease.

Speaker 2:
[03:16] The perfect day, at the perfect time, it's the perfect thing. Short of that, it annoys the crap out of me.

Speaker 3:
[03:21] Yes, I don't want a convertible, but customers will buy, maybe they needed, no, I don't think they needed this car to be the car you have to buy before you buy the supercar, it's just going to be car for sale. So all that aside, it seems like just parts and a new model and we'll kick it out the door and customers will buy. But other car companies do this too.

Speaker 2:
[03:48] Oh, I agree.

Speaker 3:
[03:48] Everybody does this, BMW, for example, you've got the M2, but then we've got the M2 competition. Oh, well, that's not good enough. We've got the M2 CS now and we just keep adding parts.

Speaker 2:
[04:00] Of course.

Speaker 3:
[04:01] And it keeps getting better and it keeps, I'm surprised there's not a CS cabriolet and like, let's extract all the dollars out of the, Porsche does the special editions more than anybody.

Speaker 2:
[04:11] Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 3:
[04:12] My issue, everybody does this.

Speaker 2:
[04:14] You haven't talked about the primary thing that turns this for me.

Speaker 3:
[04:18] Okay, well, I'll touch on price very quickly.

Speaker 2:
[04:22] That'll get us there. Let's get there and then we'll follow that rabbit trail for a minute.

Speaker 3:
[04:26] I barely flick through the configurator and you're curious enough now too. So I went to the configurator and I've just, select a paint, no Sonderwusch, no special edition.

Speaker 2:
[04:37] There's normal stuff, quasi normal stuff.

Speaker 3:
[04:38] I picked Gentian Blue, because I like Gentian Blue. I know you do, yes. So I picked that and I was just, I barely try, I didn't really try. And just, oh, that sounds interesting. Click there and I didn't dive in to all the really, the minutia of what you can do. And I got to 299,000 without trying.

Speaker 2:
[04:54] Of course you did.

Speaker 3:
[04:54] I didn't put serious effort behind it.

Speaker 2:
[04:56] Doesn't it start at 250?

Speaker 3:
[04:57] It starts at 250, 259, and I just casually clicked a few buttons like, that looks interesting and I probably want those seats and yeah, maybe the different color and tier. It's 299,000 dollars. Trust me, I did not dive into the sub menus and the minutia.

Speaker 2:
[05:14] No, if you try, you're gonna break 300 without much effort.

Speaker 3:
[05:17] This was 299 without trying.

Speaker 2:
[05:20] Is this the one you configured by the way?

Speaker 3:
[05:22] No, this is just press photos from Porsche.

Speaker 2:
[05:24] It's beautiful. Yeah, I get it. It's a great color. I like the red with the gold wheels. It looks cool.

Speaker 3:
[05:28] It looks beautiful. So I'm thinking, huh, does Porsche know their customers? What? People are gonna buy this like crazy. It's gonna be marked up once again. And let's say they're 350 with all the goodies and all the stuff, and then add whatever premium on top of that, and here we are.

Speaker 2:
[05:44] Porsche knows their customer, but this, to me, is the latest step in what I am going to call the Ferrarification of Porsche. Okay? This 911 is a billboard for the problem, as far as I'm concerned. This 911 Corridor GT3, and I'm gonna walk as to why.

Speaker 3:
[06:03] They didn't have any products in the pipeline.

Speaker 2:
[06:04] I'm gonna walk to why I think that.

Speaker 3:
[06:06] What do we do next?

Speaker 2:
[06:07] But here's the reality. Porsche has always been great to drive cars, looking for drivers, and they are moving more and more away from that to looking for people who want branded identification to go with their special watch, and their special shoes, and, yeah, fair, it is you a little bit, I do get that. But they're looking for people that want to identify with the brand, and may not even care to drive.

Speaker 3:
[06:36] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[06:37] And what makes this even more alarming to me about that is because they make tons of versions of the 911. And I've joked before about being at Cars and Coffee when two guys got a pretty much identical 911s and have a discussion, excited discussion about how the stitching on their cars are different. And I'm like, you both are driving white 911s with brown interiors. I'm sorry, but difference is not the thing to lead with. Okay, it's not. It's you bought the same car as me. That's the conversation. But anyway.

Speaker 3:
[07:07] And then we're done.

Speaker 2:
[07:08] How do you like yours? Where do you drive it?

Speaker 3:
[07:10] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:11] What surprised you the most? Has it been worth it? These are real conversations. My stitching's different than yours is not a conversation starter. But these guys were gone for a while, okay? So we're headed there. We're headed with brandedification with Porsche anyway. But here's the thing. They offer 20 something, almost 30 varieties of the 911, okay? Yeah. We have a piece coming out that actually just came out. By the time you're watching this, it just came out on Test Drive last Sunday, where we got to drive Ryan's 992.2 Carrera T, which is the cheapest way to buy a 911 with a manual. And it was $160,000. Yeah, at least. Okay, my entire car awareness is a person, okay? Porsche's have been expensive, but they've been aspirational. They've been the ones that are just out of reach. Like, if I dedicate myself, I could afford a 911. And they keep walking away from that market. Now, I understand they're chasing where the money is. I get it. But now into this, Porsche sells all these 911s. The GT3 exists because it is the hardcore 911 designed for track. That was the reason that the GT3 moniker got established for 911s. And we've driven the GT3s and they're very cool. And if you're buying a track car and you have the money, it's just buy a GT3.

Speaker 3:
[08:26] GT3 for class racing rules, to meet the rules that teams could ostensibly buy. And then Porsche went, huh, maybe other people would just like to buy this and drive around on the street.

Speaker 2:
[08:34] And if, so seriously, if you are buying a car to take to the racetrack, you want to drive it on roads and you want to take it to the racetrack and you have money, you just go buy a GT3. I mean, even though I am not a huge, like, evangelist of the 911, that's still the answer, okay? We've driven them, they're brilliant, okay? They litter track days all over Europe, they litter track days for hooked on driving, because they are brilliant, okay? But now, you take the GT3, the hardcore version, and you, from there, make a, well, what if I don't want to drive it on track? Well, first off, I gotta stop you. It's the track car. The GT3 exists to be the track car. What if I want to buy a GT3, because, essentially, I'm preening, I'm peacocking all over the place, but I don't want to drive it on track. Well, then, we'll make you a GT3 touring.

Speaker 3:
[09:23] Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:
[09:24] And then, while everybody is buying the GT cars, because, essentially, that's bragging rights, why don't we make a GT3 convertible? We have lost our way into a sea of people that are just buying the brand, like Ferrari. And I know that I'm getting heated. I know that Ferrari has done this forever successfully. And I also know, to Porsche's credit, this is where the big money is.

Speaker 3:
[09:47] True. You go where the money's at.

Speaker 2:
[09:49] But I look at this and I just go, you're walking away from what you've been. I think about all those ads in the 80s and all the ads in the 80s, the black and white ones, with the sexual innuendo and the cars that are airborne and that kind of stuff. Porsche was going, you like to drive? Come drive our cars.

Speaker 3:
[10:05] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[10:06] Now they're going, you'd like to show off? We'll sell you the track car that's been softened from a track car and given a convertible, but you get to say GT3. Oh, and by the way, $300,000.

Speaker 3:
[10:17] At least.

Speaker 2:
[10:18] If I have $300,000, I am not buying a 911. I'm not, with the possible exception of I'm only buying a GT3 for actual tracking.

Speaker 3:
[10:27] I was gonna say, I'd buy a GT3 for track use, but yes.

Speaker 2:
[10:29] But the reality is $300,000 for a peacocking car, you're not buying a 911. I'll buy a used McLaren, I'll buy a used Ferrari. I'm sorry, but-

Speaker 3:
[10:39] Or two of something or four of something or-

Speaker 2:
[10:42] Yes, I'll pull up in my Amira very happily and have cash on the table for a bunch of other cars. And please don't misunderstand me. I am not claiming that my Amira drives better than everything. I'm not. I'm not claiming it's the best car ever. I'm not. It was wildly expensive. I can't believe I own $100,000 automobile. But I also don't think that the average person spending three times that on a convertible track car, okay? Convertible track car. All right? That's what you did. You bought a convertible track car. No one in history has designed a track car and gone, let's make it convertible, just for fun. Not if they can't. They want to make a hardtop for all the reasons, okay? For all the track driving. So convertible track car. The person buying the convertible track car is not having a better time than I am in my Amira.

Speaker 3:
[11:31] True, true.

Speaker 2:
[11:32] And I want to argue that it doesn't drive better. Different, yes. Better, I doubt it.

Speaker 3:
[11:39] Depends on your taste. I mean, you could argue.

Speaker 2:
[11:40] Depends on your taste, absolutely. And I am a mid-engine guy, for sure.

Speaker 3:
[11:44] For sure. One could argue that a Miata is a convertible track car.

Speaker 2:
[11:48] Yes, you could, you could.

Speaker 3:
[11:50] I mean, if that's what you were looking for, a convertible track car, why spend 300,000?

Speaker 2:
[11:55] Okay, fair, fair, fair, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[11:57] Miata still, still is the answer to everything. I'm looking for a convertible track car.

Speaker 2:
[12:02] And if you really are gonna track your Miata, you're gonna put a cage in it to take structural rigidity and convertible away.

Speaker 3:
[12:07] And if you put a cage in this, why not buy a GT3? Yes. Three.

Speaker 1:
[12:10] Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Speaker 3:
[12:12] I have read in multiple places that GT3s are primarily street driven.

Speaker 2:
[12:17] Of course they are.

Speaker 3:
[12:18] Of all the, yes. Because look how, whatever, finish that sentence.

Speaker 2:
[12:24] There is a huge.

Speaker 3:
[12:25] Fast I am, cool looking I am, how much money I have, finish the sentence.

Speaker 2:
[12:28] There is a huge contingent of buyers, and also people that do media in LA that brag about buying a GT3 RS, the most tracky of the track cars to take to coffee.

Speaker 3:
[12:41] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[12:41] No. No.

Speaker 3:
[12:43] That exists?

Speaker 2:
[12:44] That exists. Porsche is leaning in because they need the money, and I get it, and your customers are there, and those guys have money, and I get it. It is just becoming a bragging rights brand, and it makes me sad because I look at Porsche as, literally I look at Porsche as the everyman's exotic car that can run with anybody, and now it's just becoming another exotic car brand. $300,000 for your track convertible is absurd.

Speaker 3:
[13:11] It's absurd. And that's just to begin with. It's interesting about your point, how people associate with the brand. How do brands get there over time? Because I suppose Mazda's up there, but you're enthusiast driver or you're tracking it. It's not, you're not buying the Mazda jacket to show off like Mazda.

Speaker 2:
[13:34] Sure, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[13:35] No, you probably have the car and you're not buying the Mazda shoes and the Mazda shot glasses and the going to Mazda World and.

Speaker 2:
[13:42] Mazda World.

Speaker 3:
[13:43] Mazda World in Dubai.

Speaker 2:
[13:45] It's Zoom Zoom World, Paul. We gotta bring back Zoom Zoom for their, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 3:
[13:49] That doesn't exist. Over here at Ferrari, because they are so expensive. And so on one hand, I'm coin operated. I see you go where the money's at. Any good business. You go where the money's at and that earns you dollars. I totally get that. But on the other hand, I am in full agreement. Wait, why is just a regular Carrera 2 convertible just not as good? Because you're going to be doing the same kind of driving with that car as you are with this car. It's going to be on the street. And all the published photos are on the street from Porsche.

Speaker 2:
[14:25] Of course they are.

Speaker 3:
[14:25] They're not on a racetrack, even though it's a track car.

Speaker 2:
[14:30] Theoretically, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[14:30] But they're not going to take the photo of the convertible. And if you put a cage in this to put it on track, the stakes were made.

Speaker 2:
[14:37] You could have just, now here's the only, and I can't believe I'm saying this, here's the only potential argument for this car. To this point, Porsche has now decided that the only way to get a manual transmission 911 is you buy the Carrera T, which doesn't, or actually does come convertible now, doesn't it?

Speaker 3:
[14:53] The T does come, yes it does.

Speaker 2:
[14:55] Or the GT3. So you decided you don't want the T convertible.

Speaker 3:
[14:59] Well, it didn't cost enough money.

Speaker 2:
[15:01] I guess. So you end up jumping here because they aren't offering the Carrera S or GTS in convertible form with a manual. So you want to suggest that you like to drive and you want a manual, but the Carrera T isn't high enough in the lineup for you.

Speaker 3:
[15:18] To me, this has to do with the art world and photographers whom we've noted who have created false demand. It's not false demand, but it's...

Speaker 2:
[15:25] They create their own demand. They just say, this is what we're charging and you have to deal with it.

Speaker 3:
[15:28] Yeah, it's just, they've created the demand kind of out of nowhere, even though it's built up over the years.

Speaker 2:
[15:35] Sure, sure.

Speaker 3:
[15:35] And Porsche kind of used to do that, that the reason their cars got so good was because they continually track and customers did take them to track. They were a winning machine. I mean, they are. But then people started to buy it to be associated with that glory, that money, that expertise, that build quality. Name a reason. And I mean, I'm right there, I admit. I wouldn't buy this car though.

Speaker 2:
[16:01] Well, but I mean, I admit to being a Lotus fan, but when I identify myself as a Lotus fan, that is problematic because am I identifying myself with racing heritage that no longer exists? Am I identifying myself with a brand that's known to have cars that are broken? What am I identifying myself with?

Speaker 3:
[16:17] Right, right.

Speaker 2:
[16:18] I like how they drive. I like how they look.

Speaker 3:
[16:19] You're buying what's good.

Speaker 2:
[16:21] I like what speaks to me as a driver. I don't think that the 911 GT3, trying to land the plane here, I don't think the 911 GT3 Convertible exists because it's the best thing to drive. It exists because people want to buy the GT track car, but I'd like it softer, please. Mistake one. And convertible while you're at it. And by the way, $300,000. It will drive well. Please don't misunderstand me.

Speaker 3:
[16:48] It's not going to drive bad.

Speaker 2:
[16:49] It's going to drive great.

Speaker 3:
[16:51] Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini does it. Porsche does it.

Speaker 2:
[16:55] The Ferrarification of Porsche is where we are. And it makes me a little bit sad.

Speaker 3:
[17:00] I see. OK, Porsche, what you need is to bring the Cayman back, Cayman and Boxster, and maybe something right underneath that's aspirational. And it's...

Speaker 2:
[17:08] See, that would be key.

Speaker 3:
[17:09] Crazy light, like Miata light. OK, 500 pounds heavier than a Miata. I'll give you that. It's 2800 pounds.

Speaker 2:
[17:17] What's the new Porsche 550?

Speaker 3:
[17:20] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:21] What's that?

Speaker 3:
[17:22] You can't load it out. There's no such thing as stitching. You can't order stitching on this car.

Speaker 2:
[17:30] It's very funny.

Speaker 3:
[17:31] Seats are sewn together with something.

Speaker 2:
[17:33] But alternating stitching is not a thing we're doing here.

Speaker 3:
[17:35] You don't even offer that. And that becomes, wow. And I mean, they've kind of done it with a make series with the flat four engine. Not a GT class racing series. Great, but something just for, you want to do this, you buy the Cayman and Boxster 550.

Speaker 2:
[17:52] It's where the 924 and the 44 existed in the lineup forever ago. What are the entry level Porsches? And the entry level Porsches are now the Cayman and Boxster at 100 grand, is entry level. So where is the one at 50, 60?

Speaker 3:
[18:05] But does it now degrade the Porsche brand that's so aspirational with the...

Speaker 2:
[18:08] See, this is the problem. If, it depends on the perception that they want to chase. And I think this is the buyer they want to chase. They want to chase the Ferrari buyer, not the enthusiast buyer. And I will admit, as we see every one of these, you know, multi-million dollar bespoke hypercars, this is where the money is. This is where the margin is. But Porsche has always been pretty good with margins. Even on their, quote unquote, less expensive cars. I would just like them to do a salvo for the everyman, to keep a foot in that world. I think we're gone.

Speaker 3:
[18:43] Moving on to news from Rivian.

Speaker 2:
[18:45] It was only like 30 minutes of another rant on Porsche. I'm sorry, I got carried away.

Speaker 3:
[18:49] It's all good. Rivian, if you don't know, the R2 is coming out. We're excited to drive that, but our friend Jordan Schieffer told us about the Block Party. It's on rivian.com. They are having a Block Party nationwide in the US, Venice, Denver, Chicago, Long Island, Atlanta, Miami, Palo Alto and Nashville to introduce the new R2 to people, to the people.

Speaker 2:
[19:11] It's cool. It's come have food, hear music, hang out, but the premise here is you need to see this car in real life, but there's no driving. It feels like what most brands do for journalists at a car show, where we get into the car show before everybody else does, and all the cars are open and you can sit in them, and you can open all the doors, you can try all the stuff, and then when it's public days, they put it behind the velvet ropes or they lock the car or whatever.

Speaker 3:
[19:37] Make it accessible.

Speaker 2:
[19:38] This is what they're doing. They're going to have it there, essentially sitting open. Because it's electric, it can be all lit up. You can play with the menus, climb in it, see it in real life, see it in real sunlight, clouds, whatever. Try all the stuff.

Speaker 3:
[19:51] In the forest.

Speaker 2:
[19:52] You can't drive it.

Speaker 3:
[19:53] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[19:54] But also, we're headed so much toward cars, especially electric cars, being experience based, that as long as it drives properly, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3:
[20:02] Car companies have done the short test drive thing at car shows. You can sign up for the drive. I don't know that it really tells you too much, plus the drive is super short because so many people sign up, and it's around the block, and you don't really get to experience it. But this just seems to be putting it out in front of people, which I love. The reason we bring this up is because I think a lot of other car companies could learn from this business model. It still feels start-upy. It still feels the hip and cool, they're doing different stuff. Can you imagine Volkswagen doing this with the next Golf? It's a good idea. Yeah. Volkswagen should pay attention. A ton of other car companies. I think they did with the buzz, the ID Buzz van, they had a few rollout events and there was the car show thing. But even that took way too long from the time everybody saw it to it's finally available. It was just like, we're so past it now. This is in the news, it's ready to go, it's fresh, it actually will get updates spring 2027 as well for self-driving. But put it in front of people. What a great idea.

Speaker 2:
[21:06] You're touching on another thing that has grown worse over the time we've been doing this job and that is the lag time between big flashy announcement and I can go buy one.

Speaker 3:
[21:17] Acura NSX.

Speaker 2:
[21:18] Yes, yes, many, many things. I feel like car makers need to reduce that lag time. I think one of the reasons it happened is because what car makers don't want to have happen is they don't want to get scooped. They don't want to get the leak of the new whatever. They want to be ahead of the leak so they put the information out much, much further out so somebody doesn't leak new photos of the whatever because it's actually going down the assembly line. That's why it's happened. But the downside to it is the fact that the new Z car, great example, people are all excited about a car a year before it might even show up at their local dealer.

Speaker 3:
[21:51] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[21:51] A year before they'll see it in an auto show.

Speaker 3:
[21:53] At least.

Speaker 2:
[21:54] And in Rivian's case, I'm not saying that they've perfected it here, but they've at least reduced the lag time. They're saying this exists at a time when you can go order it. Even if you haven't driven it, you could go try to purchase one now. And I think we have to reduce that lag time because that'll actually sell cars.

Speaker 3:
[22:12] On the other hand, Scout has just announced they're going to increase the time for their new truck to 2030 before we even get to see the new truck. So there's that.

Speaker 2:
[22:20] I have a buddy who is on the list for Scout. At the last time we talked about Scout, he just wrote me privately a text message and said, am I ever getting a Scout? And I was like, buddy, I don't know, man. It does not look good. We'll see.

Speaker 3:
[22:32] Keep posted. Maybe they'll do the Ford thing. Well, we send you a hammock. Remember the Bronco?

Speaker 2:
[22:37] The Bronco got so delayed, they started sending people accessories. A flag, a hammock, a map. Can I have a car, please?

Speaker 3:
[22:44] Your Bronco's coming. No, trust us.

Speaker 2:
[22:45] Seriously.

Speaker 3:
[22:46] Another hammock to dream about your Bronco.

Speaker 2:
[22:50] We had a follower of the show, actually one of our patrons, sent us a photo of all the kitschy gear he was sent before his truck showed up. And the crazy thing is, it was a lot of gear. The crazy thing is he liked his Bronco enough, he ended up having it like six months, and he was like, I'm done.

Speaker 4:
[23:04] Which is terrible.

Speaker 3:
[23:05] Got a great hammock out of it.

Speaker 2:
[23:06] He did get a really nice hammock. Anyway, branded hammocks are where it is.

Speaker 3:
[23:10] News from Ford, they have shattered the production car ring record. Once again, it's been a giant contest between Porsche's in there, but it's Corvette and Ford. It's Chevy and Ford with the Corvette ZR1X and the Ford Mustang GTD, now announced as a special edition GTD Competition.

Speaker 2:
[23:35] The Competition version, which... Here it is. They haven't been clear about what is different, but it's supposed to be lighter components throughout and more aero and a little bit more out of the engine, which was already like 815 horsepower. So they've cranked everything up and they're going to sell even more limited. Here's the thing, the GTD was not like available at a dealer near you. They were hard to get already. This is the even more hard to get, more rare version of the GTD, the competition. They are going to sell it to the public, but we're down to 640 now, 6 minutes and 40 seconds, which is like 9, almost 10 seconds faster than the ZR1X, which two sides of the equation, one, we're down into the bleeding, cutting edge of ring times. The only thing faster than this is the Mercedes 1. Okay, this is surpassed the manned tie racing 911 GT3. Yes, it's better than the Corvette. This is the production, and here's the thing, how many Mercedes 1s are they gonna make? Two? I have one of two Mercedes 1s. It's probably about what it's gonna be like, and they're all gonna sit in some chic collection and never ever move.

Speaker 3:
[24:39] Right, in the corner getting dusty.

Speaker 2:
[24:40] So this, theoretically, and this, look, I'll go the other side. I was just coming down on Porsche. You can go buy a piece of this by buying a base Mustang. As crazy as it is. But this will be a $300,000 to $400,000 Mustang. But it did do 10 seconds faster. And here's the thing you have to understand about the ring. The ring is so long. You and I are not like ring record drivers by any means, but we've driven it a lot. A small screw up is seconds difference in your lap. So while 10 seconds on any normal racetrack is like, was somebody asleep in the pit? 10 seconds on the ring is, you can swing 10 seconds in the same car on the same day with the same driver.

Speaker 3:
[25:26] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[25:27] It's not hard to have a 10 second swing on the ring, but this is more than 10 seconds faster than their last record. And truly they have taken it from Corvette. So what does Corvette do now?

Speaker 3:
[25:39] If Corvette surpasses the Mercedes record, then Mercedes is going to be like, Oh, we've got to put jets on our car now. Now what? Uh-huh. Yeah. But then we're getting into the, you're right, the bleeding edge of physics. Yes. This ring record was set by the Ford Racing and Multimatic driver, Dirk Muller, who did the faster, he broke his own ring time. Sure. Yeah. Nine or 10 or 11 seconds, somewhere in there. But I just read Ford Racing engineer, Steve Thompson, drove this car to a time of 649 faster than Dirk's original time.

Speaker 2:
[26:16] Because this time, this car is faster. Sure. All right. So somebody else still got faster times out of it.

Speaker 3:
[26:21] Interesting. He's a racing engineer and he has driven the ring fewer than 40 laps. Now, we don't know what sim time he's had.

Speaker 2:
[26:30] Still though. But that does suggest how really impressive this car is.

Speaker 3:
[26:34] Yes. Monumentally impressive and not to take away anything from Steve, because I'm sure he's an incredibly fast driver. I mean, obviously he is, but a racing engineer with fewer than 40 laps now doing a 649 with this car.

Speaker 2:
[26:45] Under seven minute ring time. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[26:48] Right. And a true racing driver doing nine seconds better than that.

Speaker 2:
[26:52] Well, as I've said before, what is a true master of the ring racing driver going to do in a vet? That's the thing they haven't done yet.

Speaker 3:
[27:00] True.

Speaker 2:
[27:00] They haven't done a ring master race driver in the vet. And I bet you, I've said before that I think there's ten seconds left in the vet. I bet you there's every bit of four or five.

Speaker 3:
[27:11] If they want to beat this, there is.

Speaker 2:
[27:12] Well, yes. But I'm saying even without making the special competition version of the ZR1X, I'm just saying race driver, I bet you finds five to ten without trying. There'll be lots of trying. But these guys that know the ring, it's amazing how good they are. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:29] I'm fascinated by this. So yes. Hardware updates, aggressive tuning for more power, rear wing mods, secondary front dive planes, rear carbon fiber aero to increase total downforce. They don't say what the tires are, new high-performance tires, new magnesium wheels, new carbon bucket seats, and you'll see they're doing the Mantai racing thing with the carbon aero discs on the rear wheels. They probably went, huh, Mantai is on to something over here. So let's investigate what they're doing.

Speaker 2:
[27:54] One aero for certain. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:55] And other unnamed weight shaving activities. But what's crazy to me, the third fastest car around the ring is their own GT, the Ford GT Mark IV. So a Mustang is quicker than a GT.

Speaker 2:
[28:14] Yeah, because they just had that happen of late. Yeah, like a week or two prior.

Speaker 3:
[28:18] Yeah, it's faster.

Speaker 2:
[28:20] A brick is faster than the mid-eater supercar.

Speaker 3:
[28:22] Fair point, yes. A supercar sports car that should be like, wow, that's the quickest, fastest thing. Nope, the heavier Mustang is faster, because Aero, I mean, that's where the, yeah, add a little bit of power, but that's what Porsche discovered with the 911. Let's work on Aero, which leads me to think, like my prior conversation, I'm wondering about Aero being the future, I mean, they're all discovering it here. So now Corvette's got to show up with wings, and I don't turn the wings upside down and really stick it to the pavement, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[28:56] I stand by it, and I'm not taking anything away from the Corvette development drivers, I'm not taking it because they are super fast and very capable, but just somebody, one of those guys that is just one of the ring kings in a vet, I'm certain they'd go faster.

Speaker 3:
[29:12] You know it's coming. So we welcome the ongoing wars.

Speaker 4:
[29:18] And it's not relevant.

Speaker 2:
[29:19] Here's the thing, it's fascinating, but it's not not relevant. It's just not.

Speaker 3:
[29:22] I guess that's a question. Does any of this sell more cars?

Speaker 2:
[29:27] Do you buy?

Speaker 3:
[29:28] Do we all think this, the Corvette is probably gonna beat it because Corvette's going, all right. Or both companies were sandbagging, just sort of like inching up to like, okay, Corvette takes and Ford's like, uh-huh.

Speaker 2:
[29:41] Here we go. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[29:42] Hold my schnitzel.

Speaker 4:
[29:43] Hold my schnitzel.

Speaker 2:
[29:46] We're gonna finish our Corvette fast and we'll be back.

Speaker 3:
[29:49] And then they surpassed Mercedes. Mercedes jumps back in and then they make a A-class go faster than all of them or something.

Speaker 2:
[29:55] Possibly. To your question though, do they sell more Mustang GTs because they have a ring record in the GTD competition?

Speaker 3:
[30:04] Because you said, if you buy Mustang, you got a little piece of this. Does it translate to sales?

Speaker 2:
[30:09] That's what they're gonna try to push for.

Speaker 3:
[30:10] Do Corvette sales suddenly dip because the Mustang GT competition special edition just went a little bit faster and then, oh, this beats it. And you're like, oh, Corvette sales went up.

Speaker 2:
[30:19] I think there's a contingent of the market that cares, but I think it is small. I think it's very small.

Speaker 3:
[30:25] So what they need here is a convertible. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

Speaker 4:
[30:29] I didn't think you'd go there.

Speaker 3:
[30:30] That's good.

Speaker 2:
[30:31] Okay, the convertible GTD competition. The wing doesn't help you much anymore, but the top.

Speaker 3:
[30:36] I don't know what you screw the wing to anymore, but the top goes down. It's slightly heavier and you can.

Speaker 2:
[30:42] Now available for $400,000.

Speaker 3:
[30:45] Add $100,000 to that maybe, and that will make it really.

Speaker 2:
[30:47] The half million dollar GTD competition SC.

Speaker 3:
[30:51] Ford, are you listening? That's where the money's at. This does the ring time and now chop the top.

Speaker 2:
[30:56] You make a convertible. Perfect. It's a brave new world.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 3:
[31:14] Limit time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. Griot's Garage is our official car care partner and one of the first ever sponsors of our show. They don't just make great car care products. They want you to get out and drive.

Speaker 2:
[31:27] Griot's is a family owned company and they've been a part of every one of our road trips. We always take speed shine on every shoot, helping us spot clean cars in a moment's notice.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
[31:46] Plus all of Griot's liquid products are 100% guaranteed and made right here in the US. The Griot's folks are always happy to answer any questions you have and make sure you get the right product and the right results.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
[32:10] I know you're not surprised to hear this, but there are track days coming up with Hooked on Driving. I'm very excited. The entire country is activated right now. All of the regions have got major days on the calendar.

Speaker 3:
[32:19] Spring driving season is here.

Speaker 2:
[32:20] It's so very cool. Ridge Motorsports Park, that's the Pacific Northwest. That is happening on Friday, May 1st and Saturday, May 2nd, so that's very cool. The Northeast, opposite side of the country, is doing the exact same weekend, essentially. Pocono Raceway is doing May 2nd and Sunday, May 3rd. Of course, at the end of May, we are still doing, we haven't canceled it, because it's full, but we're gonna be there for two days. Coda, Sergant of the Americas, we're gonna be there for two days. Hundreds and I think it's like, better part of 300 people are gonna be there both days. Now, we keep the actual numbers of people on track low enough that it's not gonna be super busy on track, but just with the people that are on track, which the groups are full, the people that are coming, we had a conversation just this past week with some folks from our patrons that are in the area that are just gonna come out and hang out, because of course you should. Coda's really cool.

Speaker 3:
[33:05] It's amazing.

Speaker 2:
[33:05] So there's gonna be probably 300 plus people there. We're gonna do a podcast that night. So come out May 30th, 31st in Austin, Texas, Saturday, Sunday at Coda, and we have that one lingering space available on Pilgrimage.

Speaker 3:
[33:18] We will put you in a Mustang GTD competition. No we will not. No. Try to tempt everybody. We'll put you in a competition. GTD competition. Everybody's getting the GTD competition. Mustang, should drive.

Speaker 2:
[33:30] Sure they are.

Speaker 3:
[33:31] And have at it. No, no.

Speaker 2:
[33:33] Best of luck.

Speaker 3:
[33:34] No, there will be excellent coaching. There will be a variety of cars. And who wants the last slot?

Speaker 2:
[33:39] Yes, well, but here, you know, while we're talking about the ring and Spa, I will say this, putting the ring in perspective, okay? We're talking about sub seven minute lap times. I need all of you listening to understand, truly understand. You take a competent driver in a fast car and they will struggle to break eight. Eight minutes. We're talking below seven for these hyper car. There was a time.

Speaker 3:
[34:05] There was a van at ten.

Speaker 2:
[34:07] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[34:08] Nines are decent. Nines are something to be proud of.

Speaker 2:
[34:11] That's key. That's so key because the people that come with us, what we tell people to expect, if you come with us and you're doing your first laps on the ring, I don't care how many times you've done it on the sim, ten minutes is about what you should expect. Yes. You're going to be gone for ten minutes and you got a lap done.

Speaker 3:
[34:26] Watch your fuel gauge.

Speaker 2:
[34:27] Yes, for sure. You go out for two laps, your fuel is probably gone and you've been gone a half hour. It takes a while because that track is so much. We keep joking about these less than seven minute lap times. You've got to recalibrate. I'm telling you, you do a nine on the ring. Good job.

Speaker 3:
[34:43] Respectable.

Speaker 2:
[34:44] Wow. You did a nine.

Speaker 3:
[34:45] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[34:46] We're all sitting here laughing like, nine, we're doing less than sevens. No, you're not. It's hard.

Speaker 3:
[34:50] Eights are fast. Sevens are pro driver level.

Speaker 2:
[34:54] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[34:55] Under seven is, well, I guess you're a race engineer.

Speaker 2:
[34:57] You're an astronaut. Yeah, or a race engineer. I guess that's more true.

Speaker 3:
[35:01] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[35:03] So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris? Yeah. Hilton Honors, baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad and Touloume?

Speaker 4:
[35:16] Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 6:
[35:18] What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay.

Speaker 3:
[35:29] Hilton, for the stay. Book your spring break now.

Speaker 2:
[35:33] Hey, let's do some car debates.

Speaker 3:
[35:34] Let's jump in.

Speaker 2:
[35:35] That sounds like fun. We've got three of them to do. We're going to start with Logan. Go for it.

Speaker 3:
[35:39] Logan writes to us, on behalf of a friend who is going through an identity crisis. Logan, is this secretly you?

Speaker 2:
[35:46] Yeah, is this friend also known as you? I'm guessing not, but he never told us his name, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[35:51] Logan's friend is the current owner of a 2025 Audi RS3 and an E46 gutted track only car. Lives very near the Tail of the Dragon, which we have discovered we love.

Speaker 2:
[36:04] It is very cool.

Speaker 3:
[36:04] It's amazing. He frequents Tail of the Dragon. He doesn't get the E46 to the track as much as he would like and doesn't enjoy the RS3 in the mountain back roads quite as much as his prior FL5 Civic Type R. So the current Civic Type R doesn't enjoy that as he used that as a daily. He loves the RS3 for daily comfort and it's an automatic, but he could not stand the Civic manual transmission in daily traffic, so hence the swap.

Speaker 2:
[36:29] We're talking about E46 track prepped car gutted, which tells me probably might only have one seat. I don't know if he went that far, but we're talking cage, we're talking belts, we're talking a serious car you don't want to drive on the road. So that's not a car he wants to take Tail of the Dragon. He wants to take it to the track, but it doesn't really go to the track. So that means he has a daily that needs to be fun, but the daily needs to be auto because when he had, I mean, the current gen, Civic Type R, we love it, the FL5 is awesome, but it is manual only. He loved that on Tail of the Dragon and all of his fun driving and he hated it as a commuter. So the RS3 is the daily compromise. It's still kind of fun on back roads, but I can sit in traffic in it. Then he has the E46. The dilemma is the RS3 is not fun enough.

Speaker 3:
[37:18] Logan's friend's options are keep the RS3, sell the E46, buy a back road like track duty car for about $40,000 to $45,000. The considerations are another Civic Type R, a GR86, 981 generation Cayman S. He doesn't like how small the cabin is on a Miata or a Supra, and any of these would eventually be modified more for track duty. Except Logan, your friend, isn't getting to the track anymore, has a gutted E46 track car, so when you say it's going to inch towards track mods, you don't use the one you got now.

Speaker 2:
[37:57] What I hear is he's going to modify the fun car full stop, it's going to get modified. But you got to stop short of, now this isn't good on the street anymore. So it can be better for track, but it's got to stay streetable.

Speaker 3:
[38:09] That's what he has now, he has that recipe right now.

Speaker 2:
[38:11] But it sounds like he's gone too far into tracking. Anyway, we'll see. His wife will not allow a single do-it-all car. So what I hear is, she wants a car that when she rides with this, I'm reading in. I don't know, I have no idea. Plus we're talking about Logan's friend's wife, so I really am out on a limb. But what I'm sensing here is, his wife wants a car she can ride in with him for fun drives that isn't a full, crazy, modified thing. He can do a crazy, full, modified thing, but she's not getting in it. So what does he have that she can actually ride along in? That's where I think that no single do-it-all car thing is happening here. The alternative option is, and he doesn't like this as much, sell the RS3 and the E46, get an economical, fun daily, and then a larger budget for the fun back road car. That is the alternate.

Speaker 3:
[39:02] But a GTI is suggested right here.

Speaker 2:
[39:04] It is, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[39:04] But Logan's friend has already owned a 2010 GTI and a 2015 Golf R.

Speaker 2:
[39:11] And the Type R that he's considering getting again.

Speaker 3:
[39:13] Right. He's had one. So what if I got another Golf? Well, that would be your third.

Speaker 2:
[39:18] Another thing like I had that I got rid of.

Speaker 3:
[39:20] Right. And if we go back to a Civic Type R, because you liked it better, you've already had it.

Speaker 2:
[39:25] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[39:25] It sounds like keeping the RS3 is on the table. We don't have to sell it because it's great for the daily. It's just not so great on tail or as great as other cars.

Speaker 2:
[39:35] It seems like he has found the right car for the daily commute. It's fun, but it does the daily commute thing.

Speaker 3:
[39:43] Which means, okay, keep the RS3. And you said 40,000 to 45,000 if you sell the E46 for a light duty track car, back road car. But I think you're leaning more, Logan's friend, to the back road kind of car rather than more heavy duty tracks. But maybe you could still track. I mean, you could theoretically track any car.

Speaker 2:
[40:02] Of course you can.

Speaker 3:
[40:03] Some cars are better at it than others. I went in a lot of different places here. Logan's friend, I'm showing the R53 Mini Cooper S because you can get one of these, a really nice one for $5,000 or $6,000. You can get kind of like a lot of miles for about $4,000.

Speaker 2:
[40:18] We've kind of accidentally become the mini podcast of late. When I bought my sons for no money, which is the second one I've owned, I bought my sons for no money and you and I both drive it with, these are great and they cost nothing. And now we're like, what are minis again? Everybody's like, let's go buy cheap minis. Sorry, go on.

Speaker 3:
[40:33] So what if, hmm, it doesn't all quite make sense yet, but I thought, what if you sold the RS3 and you want something fun to commute in? I mean, it's fun on Tail the Dragon, but what if this is the cheap $5,000 commuter, still manual, so not quite there. And I was also thinking, what if it's a Fiesta ST? So the Mini Cooper, the R53 and the Fiesta ST, those are the two, we're pushing right now.

Speaker 2:
[41:02] No one's paying us, but we are at a pattern. The pattern is holding.

Speaker 3:
[41:05] Just pushing these cars for some reason. It's just because rediscovering them has been delightful. And then realizing, like, really? How much are they again?

Speaker 2:
[41:12] How cheap are those? Yeah, shouldn't I buy one?

Speaker 3:
[41:14] And then you did, and there was like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[41:18] My son is totally obsessed with his car, which is great. It really is great.

Speaker 3:
[41:22] Maybe this doesn't fit, because, all right, let's say you keep the R53, and instead of the Civic Type R, why don't you go a little bit more luxurious, and it helps your wife out, even though the problem is, these are still manual, but what if the Audi stays as commute duty, and you get an Integra Type S, so these are still great on track. You can do the back road thing, and they shine at back road, but then it's kind of like two of the same thing, one with an auto and one with a manual. Yeah, same thing with the M2, I'm showing the M2 CS, because, well, these are a little bit more expensive.

Speaker 2:
[41:58] Yeah, I think that's a smidge out of his budget, but keep going.

Speaker 3:
[42:01] Tiny bit, I'm just working with ideas here. Okay, keep the RS3, that's the daily, and then you add the track capable and back road focused fun car, yes, okay, yes, I like this. What I'm trying to do, Logan's friend, is not just do this circular, like my car evolution has just been a wreath. It's just-

Speaker 2:
[42:21] I'm gonna go back to stuff I owned already.

Speaker 3:
[42:22] Golf, Civic Type Rs, BMW 46s, we just keep going like-

Speaker 2:
[42:26] We're just gonna do a loop.

Speaker 3:
[42:27] I've owned it long enough to forget how that one drove, and so I went back to them like, oh yeah, maybe I'll just move. Drives like this. I'm trying to avoid, I'm trying to get you out of the rut.

Speaker 2:
[42:34] Good, I like it, it's good.

Speaker 3:
[42:37] The RS3 stays, all right? So we look at the M2, the newer M2, you could go look at an older M2, but then it's kind of the same, they both kind of do the same, one's auto, one's manual. Kept going. I'm trying to get you to specifics here.

Speaker 2:
[42:53] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[42:54] And now, not just a Cayman, but the 987 Cayman R, which is delightful.

Speaker 2:
[42:59] They're great.

Speaker 3:
[43:00] Lightweight. This could still work for track use, they're designed for track use, but also for a back road, this shines like crazy, especially if you get the manual.

Speaker 2:
[43:12] Isn't this like 70, though?

Speaker 3:
[43:15] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:16] Aren't they 70 grand?

Speaker 3:
[43:17] They're 70 grand, that's the problem.

Speaker 2:
[43:20] Yeah, okay. Keep going. It's a great car for his choices. I do see it.

Speaker 3:
[43:24] I also had the Cayman T from 2020. Both of these are very specific, because I don't want you to just say, okay, go get a Cayman and your problems will be solved. I mean, maybe, but if you get the Cayman R and the very lightweight sort of track-focused, back road-focused, more sharp driving tool, which are both of these cars, maybe that will be the difference, because again, for as much tracking as you do, you don't need to do anything to these cars. I mean, change brake fluid, maybe better tires, look at your brake pads, do a self-inspection, take both of these to the track. You could still commute in this, but you're not going to, so you've got the RS3 and the Cayman T, interesting manual. That starts to get interesting, and it's not a stripped out E46 super track car. Here is the Cayman R that I found. You're spot on.

Speaker 2:
[44:19] $71,000 everybody.

Speaker 3:
[44:21] They used to be $55,000 to $60,000. They are not that anymore, and this one is a PDK. The PDK is actually brilliant on these cars, and it works very well, and so maybe that's the tipping point, because for back roads and track use, yeah, this would be really great, but it's still just drive around town, but you've got the RS3, so I'm trying to force the RS3 versus.

Speaker 2:
[44:44] You're trying to find two cars in there somehow. Got it.

Speaker 3:
[44:47] Looking at these Cayman RS again makes me want one of these again.

Speaker 2:
[44:51] They're expensive.

Speaker 3:
[44:51] They're special.

Speaker 2:
[44:52] They are special.

Speaker 3:
[44:53] But even with 35,000 miles, it's $71,300. Just asking, are you an Elise buyer? But then, if the Miata and Super interiors, you said, is too small for you, he's going to peek inside the Lotus Elise interior and go, huh.

Speaker 2:
[45:11] I mean, what's crazy is I fit in the Elise and I do not fit in the Miata. But if you're worried about cramped interiors, the Elise is probably out.

Speaker 3:
[45:20] You will have to learn the Lotus position to get in and out properly without seeing a chiropractor. But it can be done. Todd is proof.

Speaker 2:
[45:26] Yes, true.

Speaker 3:
[45:27] And I'm asking, are you an Elise person? Because this is specialized, but it's not the, it's so track car, all the parts. You can take this to the track, just like it is.

Speaker 2:
[45:37] Exactly.

Speaker 3:
[45:37] And back roads on Tail of the Dragon, you've got the RS3, automatic.

Speaker 2:
[45:41] I don't want my Elise on Tail of the Dragon now that you're bringing it up.

Speaker 3:
[45:44] Manual Elise over here for Tail, and for some track driving. Now we're a little bit more separated.

Speaker 2:
[45:52] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[45:52] A little bit more. And these are 40 to 70,000 now, I think.

Speaker 2:
[45:56] Which is crazy that that's the swath. The ones with miles on them, you can get them in the high 30s. And the special ones with no miles, you can get about 70.

Speaker 3:
[46:04] So his budget is 40, 45, so yes is the answer.

Speaker 2:
[46:06] Oh yeah, yeah. You could find a few. Probably gonna be 05s, but yes.

Speaker 3:
[46:10] Your wife is gonna continue to want to ride in the RS3. She'll spend maybe eight minutes in this.

Speaker 2:
[46:15] She'll probably look at it in the garage and be like, you have fun, honey. I don't even know if she gets in it. She's probably like, mm-hmm, right.

Speaker 3:
[46:21] That could be. The last choice is a crazy, crazy wild card. But Logan's friend, I want you to be enamored with your car. I want you to, the next thing you get, because if we just revolve through E46's Golf, specific type ours, and we're just kind of doing this over here in the RS3 stays.

Speaker 2:
[46:37] Where are we on the clock of those cars? Which hour is it?

Speaker 3:
[46:40] What else is there? And I don't like super too small, Z's too heavy, and we just keep going around. Let's try to break out just a little bit. I found a 1991 Nissan Skyline GTR with mods. It's $55,900. So maybe a little bit less than you thought. 87,000 miles, but this is a special car. It's JDM and it's further over here. It's RS3, commute, funnish, good. But then this, it's different enough past a Cayman, past a Lotus. It's way over here. It's a JDM, so this is right hand drive. You can see the interior here. It's got quite a lot of mods, it's in top shape. In no way do we suggest buying a car with your headspace thinking, this is going to go up in the future.

Speaker 2:
[47:35] Don't buy it for that reason.

Speaker 3:
[47:36] But this does have that potential. So I'm just noting that, this particular skyline. So 1991, it's JDM, so it's right hand drive. It's got mods on it, but it's in really clean condition, top mods. It's got a lot of power, all wheel drive, of course. And it's different and special enough that you're going to be in the headspace for this. It's going to be track duty, back road duty. And again, you don't have to do anything to this. True. You have to throw parts at it to make it track worthy. And then you're going to want to take it on back roads. So it's just, it's something different. I want to break you out of the normal stuffy-darty. Stuff.

Speaker 2:
[48:12] It's just, I get it, I get it.

Speaker 3:
[48:14] For me, that's what this represents. It's just weird and not normal.

Speaker 2:
[48:18] Well, it's, I mean, it's a known, it's a known awesome car that is not typical.

Speaker 3:
[48:24] Let's just get you away from all the stuff that you've lived with. You've had two Golfs. You've had a Civic Type R. You've done all that stuff. So what's different that's still light and still, because as soon as we go down the road of that, something else from BMW, heavier, well, Mercedes or Audi, I think you wouldn't, I think you would easily dismiss those, but this, hopefully it's intriguing.

Speaker 2:
[48:45] This is good stuff. I'm going to give my ground rules for myself here, okay? Because it seems that the RS3 is staying, that it's the right car. I think so. The E46 goes away and I've read into it, but I think the E46 is going away because it got too far to tracking. It can't be used on the street, so it doesn't have a purpose anymore. But what I'm hearing is, this fun car to live alongside the RS3, I'm hearing that it's not going to stay stock. And I'm hearing besides not staying stock, you're going to do stuff to it to try to make it better for track use. Don't go too far.

Speaker 3:
[49:21] And then if you don't take it to the track.

Speaker 2:
[49:23] Well, true.

Speaker 3:
[49:24] Spend a bunch of money for no reason.

Speaker 2:
[49:25] But you could take a car and you could make it more kind of track, hard driving capable without making it so track worthy that you don't want to take it to tail the dragon anymore. That's what's happened with the E46. So I'm going to stay with the RS3. I'm going to stay with this budget of 45 grand. I'm going to walk through some of the suspects you brought up and tell you pros and cons as I see them. And then I'm going to give you a wild card that I think is the answer. The FL5 Civic Type R, you've already owned one. You have $45,000 to spend. I have one on the screen right here right now, a 2024 in my favorite color on the car, which is that very bright blue. I love it.

Speaker 3:
[50:00] Perfect condition.

Speaker 2:
[50:01] Yes. It is gorgeous. This has just under 10,000 miles. It is listed for 46 and change. So 46,000 right on top of your budget. Could you get this car? Yes. But you've already had one. And I hear that you want to make it more track worthy. And I'm not sure what you do. Honda's done a lot on this. And I even dug into the forums a little bit. And right now, people's conversation, what to do to this is minimal. It's like, well, track fluid. It's like changing tires and wheels. It's minimal stuff. There is not a lot to do to this to make it more track worthy than it already is.

Speaker 3:
[50:35] Right.

Speaker 2:
[50:36] So don't get me wrong. It's brilliant. You know that you owned one, but you've already had it. If you need to get something new and different, to your point, Paul, just keep buying the same thing. Let's get something different for the fun back road car.

Speaker 3:
[50:48] Maybe he didn't get finished with Type R. Maybe he sold it and now regrets it and he's not done with it yet.

Speaker 2:
[50:52] Possibly. The other thing on the list here from you was the 981 Cayman. I'm showing one here. I learned lots of stuff on autotempest.com today. I found that a lot of the cars that you and I talk up that are the known enthusiast highlight cars have gotten more expensive. Four to five grand across the board.

Speaker 3:
[51:11] I don't think that's due to us talking about them.

Speaker 2:
[51:13] No, it isn't, but I'm just saying people are settling in to. I think it's because there's not more new different stuff coming out, and these stand-bys of the last decade that are truly great drivers' cars are bouncing a little bit in price, because $45,000, you're not getting an S. This is a 2014 Porsche Cayman. That's the 981 generation. It is a very good car. This is a gorgeous looking one in a nice spec. Looks like they filmed it somewhere Arizona or something. I'm not sure, but...

Speaker 3:
[51:42] It's a Porsche Cayman Cayman.

Speaker 2:
[51:44] Yeah, exactly. This one's actually for sale here in Utah. So this one is coming in right at $45,000 with 43,000 miles, but it is a base 981. Wow. Okay? My problem with the Cayman for you, though, is if you start A, tracking it, or B, modifying it, it's going to be wildly expensive.

Speaker 3:
[52:03] Then you blow on your budget.

Speaker 2:
[52:04] The great thing about Porsche's is how capable they are on the track. The same is true with BMWs. The downside is the amount of consumables you go through can be catastrophic. If you're really going to track this, and God forbid you're really going to tune this, your base Cayman is going to be wildly more expensive than you expected it to be, so I think it may be out. Which leads me to the next obvious one you brought up, the GR86. I'm showing a Hakone edition. This one is still selling, even though it's used 10,000 miles, it's still listing it for $39,000. These are hanging on to some value. Are you kidding me?

Speaker 3:
[52:40] These are $39,000?

Speaker 2:
[52:41] This is $39,000 used 10,000 miles on it. And the ones like the one that we sold to Mike, that was our show car, are still selling, with miles, for low 30s.

Speaker 3:
[52:51] What?

Speaker 2:
[52:52] You can find the, here's the thing, the ones you find less are autos and in a color you don't want. If you want a cool color, like the cool color we had, and you want a manual, they're hovering around $30,000 right now, which is interesting. So this is $39,000 for an 86. Now, the 86 is a great platform for you to tune and play with. You would love that. You might not ever find it has enough power, and the problem with these engines is you start to put a lot of power through them, and that's when they break. Now, you would have plenty of power here for Tail of the Dragon.

Speaker 3:
[53:24] Oh, yeah. Great.

Speaker 2:
[53:25] You can do stuff to this. It's really good on consumables. I think you would like all of that. But my answer for you is none of these. My answer for you because these cars have not bounced yet, and you can't believe what you can get for your money. $45,000 in your pocket. You need to buy yourself a Z car, the current Z. I'm showing one right now with 141 miles. This is a two-year-old, but technically a used car in yellow. I also picked one in a color. You get a boring color and they get cheaper. This is 46 grand right here.

Speaker 3:
[53:56] 141 miles. What's wrong with it?

Speaker 2:
[53:57] 141 miles, manual transmission. This was bought and not driven. But the reason I'm bringing up the Z car is because the Z car is mods away from brilliance.

Speaker 3:
[54:10] True.

Speaker 2:
[54:10] If you buy one of these...

Speaker 3:
[54:12] Less expensive mods than Porsche mods. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[54:15] There's more for him to do.

Speaker 3:
[54:17] Or less.

Speaker 2:
[54:19] Here's the thing. If you put the same kind of mods into this, that you would put into the 86, I think you'd have a more unique, interesting, faster car to drive here. In Nismo form, it's right. In performance form, it's not. But you can get it in manual. You can get it for your budget. And then you can have that world is open to you. What would I like to do to this? And you can make it yours. And you can make it more of a great back road, barnstorming car without taking it full track car. The engine's brilliant.

Speaker 3:
[54:52] Yes. Engine's got the gear box is good.

Speaker 2:
[54:54] Yeah. The bones of this car are great, but it is too soft in stock non Nismo form. But he wants to tune it anyway. The answer for me, for you, Logan's friend, and hopefully his wife would like it too, but manual transmission, Nissan Z, current Z, and then start playing. And I think you'll find a car that most people don't have, that you can make yours.

Speaker 3:
[55:18] This is good. Logan's friend, you have ideas to get you out of the Cycle of Three series and Type R's and Golfs. We've hopefully broken you out a little bit and write to us. Your debate, EverydayDriverTV at gmail.com.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 2:
[56:49] Car Debate number two is Kevin writing in. He has had almost as many cars as his age. He's been in automotive tech for the past nine years. He currently works for a company where he does heavy diesel engine mechanics. Wow, that is crazy. He's an avid car enthusiast. He's had his license since he was 17. He's now 27. He's owned 23 cars.

Speaker 3:
[57:13] That's impressive.

Speaker 2:
[57:14] I started late. I started late. I still haven't caught up. Kevin, this is really impressive. So we're going to chase down a good car for you.

Speaker 3:
[57:23] Notable cars Kevin has had include everything from a 1983 El Camino as his first car, 2004 GTO, three NB Miata's, which is how many times it took for Kevin to realize at six foot four, he does not fit in them.

Speaker 2:
[57:35] I love that you owned three.

Speaker 3:
[57:37] Three.

Speaker 2:
[57:38] Three NB Miata's, desperate to fit. I also say this to you, Kevin. I think you'd fit in an NC. I'm just putting it out there.

Speaker 3:
[57:45] How about a fourth try?

Speaker 2:
[57:46] But you've had three NBs. And I'll also say this, NB is the one I fit in the least.

Speaker 3:
[57:51] Agreed.

Speaker 2:
[57:52] I actually could fit in the NA a little bit better than the NB.

Speaker 3:
[57:54] Because your head is above the head of your head.

Speaker 2:
[57:57] So you've had three of them. And guess what? You do not fit. I'm not surprised.

Speaker 3:
[58:00] He's had a Scion FRS, a 1993 Toyota Cresta, a 2011 Subaru WRX and many other project cars on the side, which he does not name.

Speaker 2:
[58:09] True. 23 cars total is a ton though.

Speaker 3:
[58:12] That's a lot. His current daily is a Fiesta ST Yes, he drives to work as the fun gas saver and a 1998 Evo 5 as his fun weekend car.

Speaker 2:
[58:21] That's cool.

Speaker 3:
[58:22] He enjoys the Fiesta ST on back roads, but out of his 140 mile daily round trip commute, he only gets five minutes of roads that aren't straight. He's not all that comfortable in the Fiesta for the one hour commute before and after work, and he's exploring other options. Who wants to buy Kevin's Fiesta ST? We found one.

Speaker 2:
[58:41] I mean, he loves it.

Speaker 3:
[58:42] It's for sale.

Speaker 2:
[58:43] It's the wrong commute car. It really is.

Speaker 3:
[58:45] Kevin is very aware of the fact that non-fun cars don't last very long in his driveway before he's looking for something else. He's not looking for something with outrageous power because doing triple digits in first gear isn't his thing.

Speaker 2:
[58:58] So long geared, super powerful cars are out. Got it. Yep.

Speaker 3:
[59:00] Something with good power would be usable on the highway. He doesn't say, I don't need a 4,000 pound boat. He doesn't have a need for anything four doors. The bases are covered with his wife's 1993 Toyota Chaser and a 1983 Buick estate wagon.

Speaker 2:
[59:16] That's when wagons were wagons there, people. I'm telling you, that's a Clark Griswold wagon. That's excellent. I love that. That's really good.

Speaker 3:
[59:24] We definitely pick up on the certain era of cars that you like, but he says whatever he gets needs to be reliable because getting a 70-mile tow home on a workday is not something he looks forward to.

Speaker 2:
[59:34] Yikes, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[59:35] He's looked at GR Supras, Nissan Zs, a few others in that realm but has a real affinity for the 996 and 997 Carreras.

Speaker 2:
[59:43] Okay, sure.

Speaker 3:
[59:44] The only thing that scares him, it scares all of us, Kevin, is the bore score problems that's plagued a lot of the M96 engines in those cars. Yes, I understand. If you're going to go that route, definitely look at the 997.2 engines. Definitely less, but certainly bore scoring can plague any of them, even a 981 Cayman. There's still bore scoring I've heard of. He can't spend more than 50 grand.

Speaker 2:
[60:07] He said that means you, Paul. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[60:10] Newer cars are in the options. He's not a stranger. Anything older, he specifically looks for two-door coupes, no convertibles, good driving dynamics, rear or all-wheel drive, interiors that are comfortable for a long commute. Bonus points, if we can find something in a cool color. We don't know what the other cars are that Kevin's had.

Speaker 2:
[60:29] True.

Speaker 3:
[60:29] I'm worried about recommending.

Speaker 2:
[60:31] Duplicating.

Speaker 3:
[60:32] Other things.

Speaker 2:
[60:33] Yeah, I see that.

Speaker 3:
[60:34] Here's the issue. I know I really appreciate you guys, when you write your emails and you give the car history. Sometimes, probably when you're writing the car history, like, oh yeah, I did own one of those.

Speaker 2:
[60:45] That happens, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[60:46] If they're notable, definitely call them out. But if it's a huge car history, I get it. He didn't want to list everything. Totally, yeah. A bit of a balance, but you're right. I don't want to duplicate anything, so I'm going to just touch on Supras. You mentioned Supras and you're looking around at Supras. Yeah. Yes. I don't understand what's stopping you from a Supra.

Speaker 2:
[61:09] Supras are good, yes.

Speaker 3:
[61:10] And yeah, manual here, the badge is red on the back, so you can tell it's a manual. You said you looked at Z cars. Why not a Nismo Z?

Speaker 2:
[61:19] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[61:20] The used Nismos are not manual yet because the manual was just recently announced, but they're not used yet, they're not even out yet. But you could look at Zs, I mean either Supra or Z car. The Nismo, I found for 46 actually. So this is in your budget, which is no bad thing here.

Speaker 2:
[61:38] I'm on autotempest.com/everyday right now, and I'm scrolling through, and there's a surprising number between 45 and 50.

Speaker 3:
[61:45] Yeah. These are definitely in his budget.

Speaker 2:
[61:47] I mean specifically Nismos.

Speaker 3:
[61:48] Nismos.

Speaker 2:
[61:49] Which is pretty interesting.

Speaker 3:
[61:49] And this is how we think the car should have driven from the very beginning, and they're automatic, which means better for the commute, but still sporty and fun. Good suspension, so it's comfortable enough, but it's going to be taut. It's definitely in the performance category. Only you can tell us what the commute roads are going to be like, and this could work for the commute. At 21,000 miles for 46, these are easily in your budget.

Speaker 2:
[62:11] I have to interrupt you, because look at this one I'm looking at right now, and I have to make the joke. I am pulling up a Nismo. It is available. It is 3900 miles, $52,000, but the thing I'm noting about it is it's for sale at Hyundai of Las Vegas, and that is in the Hyundai N colors. Do you think they took it on trade because it's in the gray of Hyundai with the red accents like they do for Hyundai N? It looks like it belongs on the lot.

Speaker 3:
[62:37] Yes, it does. That's funny. But you know they took it on trade because somebody had this car and said, I need four seats, and I need something performance from Hyundai, and so they probably went-

Speaker 2:
[62:47] And they got the exact same color choice on their Elantra N.

Speaker 3:
[62:49] On the Elantra N, and now this is for sale at Hyundai of Las Vegas. You're right.

Speaker 2:
[62:53] It belongs on the Hyundai lot.

Speaker 3:
[62:54] 52,000 with very little miles. That's practically new.

Speaker 2:
[62:56] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[62:57] That is new.

Speaker 2:
[62:57] Sorry. Back to you. I was like, that is the Hyundai lineup Nismo Z car. There it is.

Speaker 3:
[63:04] It's get a Hyundai Z Nismo.

Speaker 2:
[63:06] The Hyundai Z.

Speaker 3:
[63:07] All right. So that just proves there's a lot of Nismos for sale under 50 or right at 50 or so, and I highly recommend both these cars. Yes. Which one feels better to you? Which one do you think you can spend a lot of time with? I do take into consideration, I note your statement, non-fun cars don't last very long, but these are very fun, but they're going to do the commute thing really well. So it's going to be quite a nice balance. But speaking of fun and cool color, how about a 987 quite raw? Can you do long distances in these? Yes, you can. Without a doubt. We've done the long distance. Actually, you and I both went out to Oklahoma when I bought my 987 and drove all the way back to California at the time. And we kept marvelling out. This is comfortable. We're very happy and it's a great road trip car. 987 came in S and it's got a little bit more raw feel. It's a fun car. It's gorgeous to look at. You'll want to go drive it. I know you've got the Evo, but this is really interesting. 987, go back. And with your budget, you can easily find one of these. The.2s of the 987 also have less of the fears that you might think from the M96 engine, less of the bore scoring. Anything can still happen, but because you're going to be commuting in this, you're going to be putting a lot of miles on it, which is very good, and Porsches like to get the miles on them.

Speaker 2:
[64:34] Yeah, fair.

Speaker 3:
[64:35] And I think it'll do just fine.

Speaker 2:
[64:38] Good stuff. I'm going to jump in here, Kevin, and I'm going to note right away, I'm going to note the kind of cars you like. Let's go back. 1990 300ZX hatchback for $30,000. It is the turbo.

Speaker 3:
[64:53] That is kind of the perfect commuter.

Speaker 2:
[64:54] I mean, you're wanting fun. You're wanting rear wheel drive. You're wanting two door coupe. You like cars from the 80s and 90s. I mean, okay.

Speaker 3:
[65:04] What's the mileage on this thing?

Speaker 2:
[65:05] I don't see mileage anywhere. The way I've got it noted here, I don't know what the mileage is, but it wasn't terrible. The only downside actually to this specific one showing is this one happens to be an auto, but it is the twin turbo.

Speaker 3:
[65:15] He's got the Mitsubishi, now the Nissan. Keep it all in the family.

Speaker 2:
[65:17] I'm telling you, I drove this car all over the country. I loved it. It was great. I had to put it out there because it feels like your love of older cars puts me right here and goes, and we're done. I'm not staying here. Your budget of $50,000, yes, you can get a Cayman. I am showing a 2007 base Cayman in the manual to show you kind of where the bottom of the market for a nice one is right now. That is $28,000, this one that I'm showing right here. 57,000 miles, this is a very clean, very similar to the one you had except not an S. It's black with the tan interior, manual transmission, all of the pictures of this car, it's very, very clean.

Speaker 3:
[65:54] And you're making me miss my 987.

Speaker 2:
[65:56] This is the bottom of the market for those 987s, and it is the smaller engine. So that's the problem, is the way you get a lot of these options is you get the non-S. But then there's two cars that I'm thinking about, commute, I'm thinking about fun, I'm thinking about powerful but not crazy, manual transmission, but that commute keeps ringing in my ears. I thought of two cars, I don't understand why you haven't considered them. I'm gonna show you a couple of options for both. The first one of the two is the C7 Corvette.

Speaker 3:
[66:29] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[66:29] I have a green, and I pulled up specifically because it's green. A green 2014 base Stingray, 40,000 miles for $43,000 for this 40,000 mile 2014. This would be a fantastic commute car. If you decide you want to go cross country on a road trip, this is great for that too. Yeah, these are so great. Big old V8 in the front. You would love driving a C7 Corvette. So much so, I got another one here, a 2019 for $48,900. This one is an LT2, so it is better spec than the last one. $48,900, this is dark blue with a tan interior, manual transmission. $49,000 for 40,000 miles. It's good. A C7 Corvette. Here's the thing. You would love cruising in this on your commute. It's comfortable, it has a lazy amount of power and you need to pass that guy and you're just going to pass him. You don't worry about it, but you can hang out, you can get good gas mileage, you can put tons of stuff in the hatch. But then as we proved on all of the roads in the Ozarks, you get a tight road all of a sudden, and this thing's brilliant.

Speaker 3:
[67:42] It does come to life.

Speaker 2:
[67:44] I really think that the Corvette Stingray, the C7 needs to seriously be considered, but I went further commute. BMW M2, the base original 2017 model. That was before they changed the engine and went competition.

Speaker 3:
[67:57] $40,000, $37,000 now, huh?

Speaker 2:
[67:58] $37,800 for 69,000 miles, and the great thing about the M2 BMW is, it is a car that only enthusiasts know what it is. It's just a BMW sedan to most people. I have it in the cool blue here, but it does hide. Most people don't know what it is. And then I went, could you do a competition when they changed the engine and revised it? Yes, you can. I've got an M2 competition here, a 2020 for $46,400 with 60,000 miles on it, 58,000 miles on it. The problem with the competitions at this level price wise is they're all boring colors. Silver, white, black. Those are the way to get a competition, but you might be able to find one. I think the M2 competition really gets this done, or the base M2. It's full on commuter, drive cross country, comfortable place to be, plenty of room for you at 6'5, but it also has tons of dynamics and the vet works as well. So hopefully one of those two, I'm going M2 or vet, and hopefully one of them works.

Speaker 3:
[68:54] Got me thinking about Grand Sports. And I just went looking, and here is a $46,000, $47,000 2017 Grand Sport, 69,000 miles. Look at this, everyone. If we're gonna go C7, can we do a Grand Sport? See, some of these are 60, that's 50.

Speaker 2:
[69:15] He's a little above his budget. He's in the low 60s for a lot of these.

Speaker 3:
[69:18] This is the one I was talking about, 2017.

Speaker 2:
[69:20] There is one right there.

Speaker 3:
[69:21] Yep. 46 for 70,000 miles, but it's a commute car and it's just gonna lope along and...

Speaker 2:
[69:27] Yeah, it will.

Speaker 3:
[69:27] Yeah, but they're great.

Speaker 2:
[69:28] I'm telling you, a vet would do it like crazy.

Speaker 3:
[69:30] Got me thinking about the Grand Sports.

Speaker 2:
[69:31] I see that, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[69:32] Okay, so, your budget. Kevin, you're gonna have to work on your budget. Need to talk.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 2:
[70:10] We know that you're either shopping for your next car or looking up prices for fun. We do it too, and we only use autotempest.com.

Speaker 3:
[70:17] Because Autotempest pulls listings from all the top sites, as fast as in a single site, and shows them all so you don't miss a listing for your perfect car. You can save your search, get alerts, and even compare prices with their Price Trends tool.

Speaker 2:
[70:29] Plus, Autotempest was our first sponsor and they've been our partner for years. Like us, they want you to find the perfect car.

Speaker 3:
[70:36] For this podcast or for your garage, you can find the next car with autotempest.com/everyday. All the cars, one search, Autotempest. Diego M is in Puerto Rico. Thank you for writing, Diego. Thanks for listening. We really appreciate it. He's been watching since episode 949 hasn't stopped.

Speaker 2:
[70:56] Love it. That's great. Thank you for being with us. That's really cool.

Speaker 3:
[70:58] Yeah, thank you. Diego's got a base 2010 Genesis Coupe 2.0 that he bought himself when he got out of high school five years ago. He's loved the car and he's had lots of goodies, but in these five years of owning his car, he's now put more into it than $5,000 in full suspension replacement, engine mounts, and now his transmission is dead. He said it broke by reversing into a parking spot. I'm so sorry to hear. He's going to fix it, but he's tired of the car and he's thinking about selling it. So, good thing you wrote. He's a college student, but he also works as a track supervisor at K1 Speed. He gets paid $12 an hour, but you are a true enthusiast, Diego. I love it. You're always around it, and I'm sure you've seen your share of crazy driving by all kinds of customers.

Speaker 2:
[71:45] Some place like K1 Speed, you've seen people run into barricades where you're like, what happened?

Speaker 3:
[71:49] What just happened? Did you fall asleep? Did you use your eyes? You used your eyes.

Speaker 2:
[71:53] The track's the same as it was last lap. What happened?

Speaker 3:
[71:55] Anyway, he said, in Puerto Rico, the Genesis Coupe is worth to eight or $9,000, but everything else is high priced. The only thing close to his budget is $10,000. The only thing close is an RSX Type S. Those are around nine or $10,000. He needs at least a manual that is reliable and fun and won't have issues going up and down mountains because he says that's all they've got there, plus lots of potholes. Needs to be all-wheel drive or front-wheel drive because he's got a steep hill that he needs to go up through to get out of his house which the Genesis had trouble going up because it's got an open diff.

Speaker 2:
[72:31] Interesting. Okay, so front-wheel or all-wheel drive and that sounds like it could handle that hill. Okay, all right, I see it. $10,000 is the max of the budget and he asked us to look into prices specifically for Puerto Rico because he said they're always more expensive than you think looking from the US. So we had to do a little bit of digging. This was hard, but it's intriguing.

Speaker 3:
[72:49] You've said that you've added mods to your Genesis because you want more fun out of it. So I started here, Diego, with the Corolla XSE from 2020 in that great blue. Some of these, it was a little tough to find the pricing, but based on the $10,000 mark that I entered, I did find a lot of these that were right around 10. This one is an automatic, but I'm sure you could find a manual transmission. There's tons of cars in Puerto Rico, all kinds of price ranges, but I figured if you started here, this was a lukewarm hatch that really had some fun in it. It didn't go as far as a GR Corolla, but it doesn't need to because it keeps the price down, but it's gonna be reliable and still interesting and fun to drive. I think you could really make this work. I've got two other suggestions here for you. I went to Honda Civic Si because again, I'm thinking I want it to run for you. I want you to be a little bit invisible, but Si's are fun to drive. 2020, I know this is right around $10,000.

Speaker 2:
[73:50] So you're back a generation, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[73:52] Yep. But still, I think you could really make this work. And again, there's great gas mileage. There's a bit of invisibility, but you can still do stuff to this that makes it kind of interesting and fun. Start with tires, start with brakes.

Speaker 2:
[74:07] Si's are a great platform.

Speaker 3:
[74:08] They're just a great fun to drive. There's a lot of value here that is the front wheel drive. It's the goodness that we love about Honda Civics. It's just a lot of fun driving in it. And then also I want you to take a look at Hyundai Veloster Turbos. Found you one from 2016. It is not the N. So I thought, oh, wonder what Veloster N's are these days. N's are still out of your budget. I mean, if you find one you can, definitely buy the Veloster N because what a great car. Now, I know this keeps you in the Hyundai family and you've experienced the Genesis. You might want to go away from that, but still, you know Hyundai, the Veloster is a superb car and the Turbo has a lot of power and it's just fun to drive.

Speaker 2:
[74:51] It is. It's funny, I found this exact same car that you're showing.

Speaker 3:
[74:54] Did you really?

Speaker 2:
[74:55] I was like, oh, Veloster Turbo's an option. I'm glad you brought it up because it's an excellent one. Eight grand, standard transmission, Turbo, and here's the thing, the Turbo really is the middle ground between the base Veloster and what they made into the N. It's the almost N. Not quite, it's better, so this is an interesting thought.

Speaker 3:
[75:13] It keeps the price down.

Speaker 2:
[75:14] It does, yes.

Speaker 3:
[75:14] And you know what, I can't speak to reliability, but we have not heard much about Veloster's, of course, different engine and transmission, so I think this would serve you just fine.

Speaker 2:
[75:25] Good stuff. Well, actually, you and I found a lot of the same things because there were limited places to look them up, but I'm gonna run here real quick through a couple of things that I don't have pictures for, but I just want to note for you, Diego, you know what I found a ton of automatic BMWs for less than $10,000, surprisingly new.

Speaker 3:
[75:43] No kidding. Just like three series?

Speaker 2:
[75:45] All kinds of like, pick your BMW. I found a really interesting X1. I mean, I know you don't want an SUV, but the X1s are surprisingly good to drive. The older X1s.

Speaker 3:
[75:54] Yeah, they are. They're smaller.

Speaker 2:
[75:55] They were smaller and surprisingly good to drive. Some of the older ones, actually, the mid teens had hydraulic steering. I found one of those, auto.

Speaker 3:
[76:02] Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[76:03] So here's the problem. BMWs in automatic, it was like, take your pick of which one you'd like for 10 grand.

Speaker 3:
[76:09] No kidding.

Speaker 2:
[76:09] I went to manual, it was three cars. So that is the differentiating factor there, Diego. So they may be out, but I did want to note, I was shocked. Most every brand I could find, all of the kind of standbys that we look for certain cars, I couldn't find them in your price range, and BMW is like, which one would you like, sir? Which I couldn't believe.

Speaker 3:
[76:26] That's interesting though. That's a consideration though.

Speaker 2:
[76:29] I looked at Honda Fits, auto only. I looked for a Fiesta ST, couldn't find one.

Speaker 3:
[76:34] Yeah, I didn't find that either.

Speaker 2:
[76:36] I looked and found that exact same Veloster N that you did. It was like, oh, Veloster Turbo, not the N. I went looking for the N, found the Turbo, but the things I did find, you're going to laugh, the Fiat 500 Sport.

Speaker 3:
[76:48] Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2:
[76:48] Not the Abarth. $6,000, manual transmission. These are good. They're not amazing, but it's in that same category. It's the lukewarm hatch thing like you did with the Corolla, where they're fun to drive and the chassis is small and they're interesting and the front wheel drive and the manual transmission is decent. So this is $6,000 below your budget of 10 grand.

Speaker 3:
[77:08] It's a good consideration.

Speaker 2:
[77:09] And it would be a great little city runabout. You wouldn't have to be precious with it. There it is. Fiat 500 Sport. That's a 2012. That's one of them. And then I know you won't be surprised, any of you, but guess what? You can find Mini Coopers down there for this budget. Mini Coopers in various varieties.

Speaker 3:
[77:24] Mini Coopers, ugh.

Speaker 2:
[77:26] I just, that would be fun. $10,000 manual transmission, Mini Cooper. I can't believe I'm back at Mini, but this is one I'm showing right now.

Speaker 3:
[77:33] We're selling Minis.

Speaker 2:
[77:34] We are, we're selling old Minis, which is crazy.

Speaker 3:
[77:35] Doesn't matter where it's located, but if you could find an S, R53 Mini Cooper S, and it's been well taken care of, I would say yes, Diego.

Speaker 2:
[77:44] For sure, but here's the thing, even if it's not an S, I think if you could find one, they're just, they're fun little chuckable runabouts, and the price is right here. So that was the other one that I had for you, Diego.

Speaker 3:
[77:53] Diego, wishing you all the best with your transmission rebuild, and hopefully you can sell that and move on, but there's a lot of fun awaiting you, and really appreciate you listening and watching.

Speaker 5:
[78:02] So good, so good, so good.

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Speaker 3:
[78:33] Got some questions on social media. I just wanted to start here. We got a note from Isaiah T on Instagram. He just wanted to thank us for our advice regarding going into the car business. He is now working at Sewell BMW in Plano, Texas.

Speaker 2:
[78:47] Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:
[78:47] Our advice has been incredibly helpful to him. Any fellow enthusiasts looking to get into a BMW in Texas, please hit up Isaiah.

Speaker 2:
[78:56] Come see him at Sewell. Sewell is a huge, huge dealer group.

Speaker 3:
[79:00] Congratulations on your new job. I'm glad you're loving it. You're around cool BMWs. They have said they're going to save the manual transmission. They're going to continue manuals. And I'm sure you're getting to drive a lot of cool stuff, Isaiah. So thank you for writing.

Speaker 2:
[79:12] That's really awesome.

Speaker 3:
[79:13] And yeah, if you need a BMW, you're in Texas. Or even if you're not in Texas, go call Isaiah. He'll help you out.

Speaker 2:
[79:20] Kirk Meyer has an interesting question. He says, if simulated engine and gears make an EV more engaging, he's using the IONIQ 5N as a reference here, which of course simulates everything, right? And it makes it more engaging. Is there something else that could be simulated to make driving in general more fun? Kirk, not simulated, but I'll tell you something, that if manufacturers worked on what I'm about to say, it would revolutionize people's enjoyment of driving their cars. And that is lower weight. If every manufacturer across the board was concerned about what their cars weigh, and I'm not saying let's make cars less safe. How do we make cars light and still safe like they are now? Because what's happened with EVs, especially with batteries weighing so much, is that most manufacturers have just thrown the scale away. They just said, well, because we have all this power with an EV, we'll just make it weigh whatever, it just weighs whatever it weighs. And that's how you end up with a nearly 10,000 pound Hummer. What are we doing?

Speaker 3:
[80:17] What are we doing, everyone?

Speaker 2:
[80:18] No, seriously, no vehicle made drives better because it's heavier. Okay? Yeah, it matters. Now, if all you're wanting to do is isolate yourself from all sensation, then yes, weight helps that because the world will not be moved. Okay? But if everything was lighter, everything would drive more engaging and interesting.

Speaker 3:
[80:38] Kirk also asked, how much time or how many miles does it take for us to form our thoughts for a test drive video? Not much, and it's definitely dropped over the years because we know what we're looking for depending on the car we're getting into. For example, if we're getting into a pickup truck, of course, we're not instantly looking for steering feel. We're not looking for the sports car dynamics, and so the headspace instantly shifts. So we're looking for amenities. We're looking for power. We're looking for ride comfort. You think, if I were buying this, here's what I would be looking for. So it definitely changes. It's not always, does this handle like an Elise? And we get into a ram truck, and the answer is no, it doesn't.

Speaker 2:
[81:13] No, nor should it. You could fit the Elise in the bed, but it's not going to drive like an Elise.

Speaker 3:
[81:18] The time and mileage has dropped very quickly over the years, but what I love is there's still a lot of cars that surprise you and I. It really has to do with getting up to speed quickly. So not just slow speeds around town, but getting up to highway speeds and getting it on a road that has curves in it, and it quickly reveals the differences in the modes. When you switch to sport mode and you're in a curve, you can instantly feel what the car does or does not do. Playing with modes very quickly, looking for those dynamics in a car, and even looking for them in a SUV that has sport mode, that's still valid. They're still putting sport mode out there.

Speaker 2:
[81:56] They're still declaring it, yeah. You're right.

Speaker 3:
[81:58] And so looking for that. But I would say it depends on the car, but it's definitely dropped very quickly.

Speaker 2:
[82:04] Did you see Thomas's question?

Speaker 3:
[82:06] I did, I have an answer for it too.

Speaker 2:
[82:07] Okay, please, dive in.

Speaker 3:
[82:08] It's a terrible answer.

Speaker 2:
[82:10] Good, I like it.

Speaker 3:
[82:11] Thomas says, you have $25,000 to buy a depreciated EV daily. Which one do you pick and why? All the usual suspects, all the ones that I wanted, although I did find a GV60 with really high miles for under 25.

Speaker 2:
[82:23] Did you? Okay, all right.

Speaker 3:
[82:24] Which could work and those are cool, but all the other ones, I mean, I went straight to Audi e-tron GTs.

Speaker 2:
[82:30] They're not that low. They're getting there, but they're not that low yet.

Speaker 3:
[82:32] I mean, if they're dropping weekly, I thought by now, this is where we should be.

Speaker 2:
[82:37] They are getting close, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[82:39] I mean, come on. For $25,000, this is my terrible choice. It is the EQE 350 Mercedes-Benz, because here's my thinking. For less than $25,000, it's got 108,000 miles on, so somebody just commuted in this.

Speaker 2:
[82:54] Sure.

Speaker 3:
[82:54] But you're driving a Mercedes-Benz. It's still a Mercedes-Benz. You've still got NAV system. You've still got all the Mercedes amenities, the luxury, and you're just going to be commuting, and it's a daily, and you're just going to be cruising around. I'm sure the range was terrible on this, because the 450 that we had was even... It was terrible, so I'm sure the 350 is even worse, but still, it's ugly, it's got a lot of space, it's super cheap, but you're driving a Mercedes-Benz. It's like what I heard Toto Wolff tell George when he came on board to be their main driver, like, George, you're still going to be driving a Mercedes-Benz. Works in F1, it works here for your daily EV.

Speaker 2:
[83:36] Oh, no.

Speaker 3:
[83:37] Sure, I mean, there's other EVs out there, but I get the Mercedes Luxury, I get the Space, I get the freakin ugly.

Speaker 2:
[83:46] It is ugly. I have one answer, and it's not gonna surprise anybody because I've talked about it before, but I would have to go right back to the one that I have toyed with, the BMW i3. By having 25 grand to spend, you can get one like this. You can get one.

Speaker 3:
[84:01] 28,000 miles?

Speaker 2:
[84:03] Here's the white and black, which actually looks decent on this car, but here's the thing, after 2017, these got better and the range got better. This is a 2019 i3 with the range extender, so it's everything you want this to be, and it's 21.5.

Speaker 3:
[84:18] But Thomas, will you allow the range extender? Your range goes down to about three, three miles.

Speaker 2:
[84:24] It's not quite that bad, but it isn't good.

Speaker 3:
[84:27] Maybe you can get to the store and back home in a panic.

Speaker 2:
[84:29] I think I'm going to stay with the i3, because even if I don't get these improved ones, they're still pretty good, man. All things considered, I'm on a tempest right now. There's just tons of them.

Speaker 3:
[84:40] There are tons of them.

Speaker 2:
[84:41] It's amazing. $25,000. I could get the nicest one on the planet. I don't need the nicest one on the planet. I'll get one of these. It's like 11.

Speaker 3:
[84:47] Oh, what are i8s now?

Speaker 2:
[84:49] I mean, I know they're not pure EVs, but... Okay, here's one, a 2018 in red and black for $12,000.

Speaker 3:
[84:58] I could see you rocking this.

Speaker 2:
[84:59] Yeah, why not? That's where I'd go. That'd be my choice.

Speaker 3:
[85:02] Pick it up in Florida.

Speaker 2:
[85:03] Why not? That's scary.

Speaker 3:
[85:04] Here's the answer, Thomas, and that is a used German EV.

Speaker 2:
[85:09] True.

Speaker 3:
[85:10] Talking about...

Speaker 2:
[85:10] That's the solve.

Speaker 3:
[85:11] Audi e-tron...

Speaker 2:
[85:12] You're right....

Speaker 3:
[85:13] e-tron quattro, GT quattros. Talking about Mercedes, whatever, because the Mercedes EQE and EQS's, nobody liked them. It was worse than that. Everybody hated them. They were so nasty and ugly. Mercedes is desperate for the course correction. Imagine all those used on the market. They're terrible looking. You're right. Actually, it's still a Mercedes Benz, and here you found the BMWs. So clearly, it is used German EVs. Those are the cheap ones. They're still luxurious, and they're really well priced now.

Speaker 2:
[85:44] Who knew? Who knew we'd be there? That's something we would buy, and I'm not sure anyone would watch, but we do it anyway. That's kind of what we do, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[85:50] Thank you for all your engagement with the show. Really appreciate you listening, watching, sharing the podcast. That's how we continue to stay in the top 10, at least.

Speaker 2:
[85:58] Oh yeah. This is a very successful automotive podcast worldwide, and that is entirely thanks to you guys, and your rating and reviewing is a big, big help there, for sure.

Speaker 3:
[86:07] EverydayDriverTV at gmail.com for all your topics, Tuesdays, car conclusions, car debates, things CEOs say, what are their...

Speaker 2:
[86:14] We're taking it all that way. Here's the thing. When we post on social media for questions, these are just questions, but everything else, send it the email address. We'd love to hear from you. We read them all, by the way. Yeah, we do.

Speaker 3:
[86:23] And we're looking forward to it next time. As always, cheers, everyone.