transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hey, everyone, before we get to this week's show, this is just your weekly reminder to please continue to pray for my wife, Lindsay. She is battling breast cancer right now, and we're praying for complete healing in Jesus' name. Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[00:11] Merkel Media257.

Speaker 3:
[00:18] This was all circulating around the base that a giant had been killed, but no one was supposed to talk about it.

Speaker 4:
[00:25] I saw three long, bony fingers reach up underneath the door, curl up to grab it, and then disappear.

Speaker 5:
[00:35] When he came over to me, dude, he slithered over to me.

Speaker 3:
[00:45] And this giant comes out of the cave, and they're all frozen. And he starts running and firing at this giant. With a giant move, he's got a spear in one hand, and he's running really fast. And spears, Dan holds them up like this. Somebody else, shoot him in the face, shoot him in the face. They basically decapitate him.

Speaker 5:
[01:08] Got closer, got closer, got closer. When he got about 15 yards away from me, I raised that plug, and I blow this head off.

Speaker 6:
[01:16] I feel something pulling at my leg, and I look over, and there are two small gray entities pulling at me. And they're literally, I'm getting pulled off the bed.

Speaker 5:
[01:27] I reach my hand into this bush, and I touch air. Couldn't breathe, and it couldn't move, cause I know I'm seeing a monster.

Speaker 1:
[01:57] Welcome to the show, everybody. You're listening to The Confessionals Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Merkel. Thanks for being here. If you want to talk to me, go ahead and shoot me an email. My email address is contactattheconfessionalspodcast.com. That's contactattheconfessionalspodcast.com. Or go to the website, theconfessionalspodcast.com, hit the contact section, and you can reach me that way as well. Otherwise, for me, just get ahold of me. If you want more shows on a weekly basis, we got you covered, theconfessionalspodcast.com/join. If you go to that website there, hit the join button, you'll be able to get access to bonus episodes on a weekly basis. The entire archive is there. The future archive will be there. And you'll be able to get it all on the website or the app that you can download from your app store. You log in to the app with your credentials, and you get access to a social media app plus the extra content that's housed on there. All waiting for you. If you become a member to The Confessionals, go ahead and check it out today. Check out Merck Merch for Merkel Media Apparel. We had some people saying that they want Slingshot Nation apparel. So we haven't really considered that before, but the show is actually getting a lot of traction over on YouTube. So if you guys want Slingshot Nation apparel, go ahead and let us know so we know if that's something worth pursuing. All right, friends, listen, this week, we have Angela Scafidi coming on the show. We sit down with her and she unpacks a powerful journey out of the new age spirituality, witchcraft and occult practices into a life transformed by Jesus Christ. What begins as a search for healing after deep personal loss turns into years of spiritual deception where practices like astrology, yoga and mediumship slowly opened doors she never intended. Angela shares how these experiences felt enlightening at first, but ultimately led to chaos, bondage and deeper emptiness. This is a raw eye opening testimony about deception, spiritual warfare and the reality behind what many today call harmless spiritual practices. Let's get to Angela right now. Today, we got Angela Scafidi here. How are you?

Speaker 2:
[04:11] I'm great, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:
[04:13] I'm glad you're here. We were just talking in the other room. We found out we're both from Philadelphia area.

Speaker 2:
[04:18] Yeah, pretty cool.

Speaker 1:
[04:18] That's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[04:19] That's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[04:19] I mean, Philadelphia to Tennessee, we're all migrating. And I'm assuming your story starts up in Philly, in that area, right?

Speaker 2:
[04:28] Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1:
[04:29] So what I know of you is what I've seen online. I've seen different interviews of yours. I know you were with my friend Mike Signarelli a little while ago. I think that might have been the first time I was introduced to you.

Speaker 2:
[04:41] Oh, wow, really?

Speaker 1:
[04:42] Yeah. I'm not really good at knowing the who's who and all that stuff. I just stumble across people. I think that's where I found you. But I had no idea that we were from the same area. So what I'd like today is you have a background in New Age, witchcraft and how Christ pulled you out of that. And I would love to highlight your testimony on how all that started for you and where that took you in life and how that transition, what does that transition even look like? Because there's so many people that listen to programs like this that might be at different stages of what your testimony is. There might be people who are listening who are actually maybe even just starting New Age or in the middle of that kind of stuff. There might be people who are in it and they're starting to wonder, hmm, is this the right path? And all of a sudden the spirit guides are getting a little meaner. And it's like, where does that go for them? And so I think it's encouraging to be able to have somebody in studio who's started in this and now is on the other side of it to be able to light the path for people who might be coming behind them.

Speaker 2:
[05:44] Amen. Yeah, it's probably Christians listening to that kind of have their feet in both kingdoms right now and don't even know it.

Speaker 1:
[05:50] So let me just start there with you and ask you that. Because that's something that, I've never dabbled in such things. In fact, growing up, my mom was very vocal about certain things and she scared the crap out of me with Ouija boards. The way she talked about them, I was like, no touchy. And so I just never even felt compelled to touch this stuff. And as I've gone through the show and speaking with people in different theologies and denominations, I'm learning that Christians sometimes are even stumbling into touching this stuff and they don't even know it. So what does that look like? Even before we get to your testimony, because I know I'll forget to ask later.

Speaker 2:
[06:34] Yeah, well, I'll just start by saying, I would have never touched a Ouija board even when I wasn't all this stuff.

Speaker 1:
[06:38] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[06:39] I was actually always really afraid of the demonic, even if that's not necessarily what I would have called it. I was always fascinated with the paranormal realm and all these sorts of things, but I was very, very hesitant and terrified to cross any dark lines. And so even when I was wrapped up in the spiritual lifestyle that I was living, that was a hard no for me. And I think honestly, for a lot of people, it usually is. But what they don't realize is that participating in astrology, even yoga, tarot cards, all these sorts of things, it's no different than picking up the Ouija board and trying to communicate with the dead. It's just a different flavor of witchcraft, but it's witchcraft all the same, it's sin all the same, and it is frankly demonic all the same. But that is the nature of deception, is that you don't realize you're being deceived or else you wouldn't be participating in it. So.

Speaker 1:
[07:39] You know, on that, I think you said astrology, yoga, and I forget what the other one you mentioned, but tarot. Out of those three, at least from my perspective, I imagine the one that's the hardest to understand and consume from a Christian's perspective is the yoga side, because we look at it as like, oh, it's just stretching. And, you know, like, I've never done yoga, but I'm also the kind of person that I don't really work out a whole lot either. So I heard rumblings of yoga and the darker side of it throughout the years. The person who really shined light on that for me was an interview I did. Her name was Patty. She's from Canada. Her and her father came down here. They're both former shamans. And Patty's father, Patrick, I wonder where she got her name from. But Patrick and his wife one night were sitting at home and they stumbled across Sid Roth on TV. And there was a call to salvation. They stood up and gave their lives to the Lord there. And then a couple years later, she called them out of desperation. They said yes, and she gave her life to the Lord. But she talks a lot about yoga because she studied in India under different yoga masters or whatever. And she started spelling out the poses and what they mean. And even if there's no intent behind it, there is an attraction to certain gods that they were designed for. Is that how it works?

Speaker 2:
[09:11] Oh, absolutely. And the devil doesn't care about your intentions. He just cares about your agreement. But it's interesting that you mentioned that she was actually studying in India because you take anyone that's actually from that region, that's within that culture, even people that are practicing Buddhists or Hindus that want nothing to do with Christianity because they think our religion is false or whatever the case may be. They don't appreciate that we speak out against how every other religion outside of ours that is therefore antithetical to Christ is an antichrist religion. They don't appreciate any of that. But they, oddly enough, are the first people in my comment section to say, yeah, you Christians have nothing to do with yoga anyway because it is a form of worship. It is a sacrament of their religion, like irrevocably so. And so you have Christians that want to defend what they believe is their right to participate in yoga because while I have good intention, sister, God knows my heart, but you have actual people that are entrenched in the very religion that yoga came from saying as Antichrist as they are, no, this is indeed an element of our religion. It is indeed an element of worship within our religion. And you cannot separate that no matter how much you want to. So you talk to the actual people where it comes from and they will agree with me.

Speaker 1:
[10:38] Yeah. And God will agree with me raining down holy fire right now.

Speaker 2:
[10:44] And you will go in hard and heavy with the yoga right away. You're going to lose some people right there.

Speaker 1:
[10:48] No, it's fine. It's fine. Listen, I don't even know how many episodes we're in, but we're so far into these episodes, people expect the curve balls from me.

Speaker 2:
[10:56] There's a lot of pushback on the subject. And I'm sure it will continue to come up as we continue to converse today. But I do want to encourage anyone, if you're starting to already feel the resistance, even hearing this conversation, please be slow to speak and quick to listen, because you might learn something. And I actually want you to lean in to that resistance, because it's interesting how people always say, well, it's just stretching to me. It's just this, it's that. But the second you tell them about the spiritual yoke, it's like the inflammation comes up, right? The vitriol comes up. And it's almost like revealing itself, that the spiritual yoke you deny is there, is now manifesting through your response. Because although yoga is supposed to make you so peaceful and so zen and so detached and so enlightened, you can't help but feel like your skin is crawling, like something within you is burning. Because I'm saying something that you presume to be ridiculous. Well, if it was so ridiculous, you wouldn't be having such a visceral reaction to it. But you are because it's spiritual and there's demons involved.

Speaker 1:
[12:01] That's a very similar mindset that I have with some of the stuff that I talk about. It's just like, why are you getting so mad about me being a Christian and saying what I believe? If hell is not real, you shouldn't even care. You should just look at me and say, you're ridiculous and not be offended. Why is it so offensive to you that my belief, my belief system in general is offensive to you because I think there's something innate inside of us that screams to that truth. And so when it comes to, we're going to keep going on yoga, but I don't care. But when it comes to yoga and things like that, I feel like Christians and people in general, let's just say people in general, they look at certain things and they might even acknowledge that it comes from something that might be darker or whatever, but I don't mean it that way. And I'm sure there's been plenty of people who go into yoga studios, who might have heard similar conversations that we're having right now, and they're Sunday Christians. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, like every Sunday, they're at church, they're worshiping, but they go for the physical practices of just stretching it out and feeling good. What you're saying is just the physical act of doing yoga, even if there's no intent behind it, you don't even know the basis of the intent behind yoga historically. You're literally just going to the gym to do some stretching. It feels good. You're saying that that itself still doesn't matter. You're still doing something that could be attracting a demonic entity towards you.

Speaker 2:
[13:40] Correct. Yes. Because ultimately, our intentions don't get to define spiritual law. And when we get to this place where we are in a position, where we are defining what is good, what is bad, what is right, what is wrong, what is holy, what is immoral, then you're no different than taking the same bait Eve did. You can be like God. Oh, I can be like God. I get to decide what's best for me. I get to decide how I worship. You know, if you're a Christian, I've had a lot of people say they do worship God through their yoga practice. So I get to decide how God is worshiped. I get to decide how he's approached. Or maybe you're not Christian. It's just like, well, this does feel really good to me. Well, things that feel really good don't mean that they are really good. I mean, just not to get lewd, but I like to use this example because it's so easy to compare the two when we try and differentiate between, okay, well, what's the difference between me going into a yoga class versus me just stretching? It's the same difference between you engaging in sex with someone outside of marriage as you would within marriage. It's like, it looks the same through a physical perspective, but the spiritual framework is completely different. Outside of covenant, that's fornication, that's a sin, that's an open door to the enemy within covenant. It is under a framework of holiness that God deems sacred, and he encourages that of you, and you're fruitful and you multiply and all these beautiful things. And so, it's not just stretching because it's the actual framework of the spiritual modality itself that happens to incorporate stretching within the means of how that is facilitated, like how the spiritual framework is carried out in the physical. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[15:35] It makes total sense. It makes total sense. And even for people listening that might totally be, this is just totally not in their wheelhouse, to try, and I don't know if this is going to land, but to try to draw a connection to maybe somebody that might be more conspiratorial minded. Throughout the years, I've talked about CERN. And are you familiar with CERN? Okay, so Statue, I believe, of Shiva is on the front lawn. And the scientists there will say, oh, it means nothing, it's a lawn decoration or whatever, you know? But people who are conspiratorial minded will easily look at it and be like, no, no, no, no. I'm not buying that. There's an intent there behind it. You guys mean something by that. And if you take those role reversals, it's the same thing. It's like, what you're saying is, it doesn't matter if you're saying there's nothing behind it. There is. Just by it being there, just like the statue of Shiva on the front lawn, just being there, it means something.

Speaker 2:
[16:31] Yeah, 100%. Shiva is actually one of the main primary gods of the yoga practice as well. And so I just want to say, I love the kind of content of your podcast because this is the kind of stuff that I would listen to before I was even saved. And so I praise God that I kind of understand the mindset of maybe people that are listening that aren't in Christ yet, and maybe they're just like, okay, stop talking about the Jesus stuff, like get into the meat. But it's interesting because a lot of those people will read the Book of Enoch, for instance, but they'll never touch the Bible, which is funny. I was one of them. And the Book of Enoch, it's not canon, but it is context. And I think it's really important actually for us as Christians to understand that context, the way that they did within the scriptures because it's referenced in the scriptures that we do consider canon. But you find in Enoch even, and I promise I'm getting somewhere with the yoga thing with this, but you find in Enoch even that the fallen angels gave information, gave technology even to humanity that we weren't supposed to have or whatever. Now, the actual lore of the yoga practice is that the God Shiva, one of the God Shiva gave through Brahman the, which is another false god, gave through Brahman this yoga practice as a means of worship to the quote, seven sages, which then gave it to humanity. So it's actually confirming what Enoch says through its very own curation of where yoga came from, through the lore of Hinduism. So this is where they believe yoga came from, that they believe it came from their gods that taught it to humanity, which again, lines up with what Enoch says, that the fallen angels, which we know are false gods, gave humanity information and false worship and all these things that we weren't supposed to have that has just perpetuated this sin nature and false worship and all these sorts of things that we know the world is rampant with even today. And so it's just really interesting, even for the conspiratorial mind, there you go. Yoga comes from something and it ain't holy.

Speaker 1:
[18:43] No, no, and so that's what I'm learning. I mean, like I said, I don't have any experience with it. You know, I was a basketball player growing up. I didn't do yoga, you know, barely stretched. But it was, it's something that has popped up a lot on the show over time.

Speaker 2:
[18:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[18:59] And one of the things you brought up here, and I think I'm gonna put this on the table with the intention to shelf it for later, but I just want to put it on the table. So maybe between you and I, maybe the people in the room can help me remember for later.

Speaker 2:
[19:13] It'll come back up. It's a huge part of my testimony.

Speaker 1:
[19:16] Well, what I'm about to say is something new. You brought up these different gods, and I want to explore at some point in this conversation your perspective on their reality, the active nature of them, and the essence of what that means. You know, because traditionally speaking, in traditional Western Christianity, you say anything about gods, and it's like that doesn't compute for most people.

Speaker 2:
[19:49] Yeah, I've noticed.

Speaker 1:
[19:50] And so, yeah. And so I think it'd be good, because of your background, to maybe explore that. But speaking of your background, let's get into the testimony part of it before I derail any more into more yoga questions. Can you start us off with how you kind of got on track with the new age and all this stuff? How did this go? Because, I mean, like I said, I've never been even tempted to touch the stuff, so I don't even know how it works.

Speaker 2:
[20:21] Yeah. Well, I did grow up in Philly, which I love the camaraderie, by the way. We miss Wawa very much. Oh, my God. You're killing me.

Speaker 4:
[20:29] You're killing me.

Speaker 2:
[20:33] We're looking forward to the various locations that are coming up in Tennessee at some point, because God is faithful and answers every prayer that his children have. It's so nice to be able to bond with people who are missing Wawa. Yes. Yes. So I grew up in Philly with a single mom, never knew my dad. I actually did end up meeting him after I got saved, which was a really anticlimactic experience that's neither here nor there. I never really knew something was missing because that's just all I had ever known, right? But of course, God creates an order for a reason. It's supposed to be God, the husband, the wife, and the children. So that element, well, both elements really, the God one too. But that element of having the father as the head of the home was just absent. And so there was something that was intrinsically absent within me. I never had any headship. I never had any masculine covering or authority. I see now having my own daughter who's two. I see the dynamic between herself and my husband and how different it is than the one that she has with me. And just so to see, wow, I was so traumatized from a young age by no fault of my own, by no fault of even my mom's. It's just the nature of the beast when you have children outside of wedlock and you have this, you know, you're a single woman and you got to do the best you can and that's what you have, but that was just the foundation for me. It was already broken. And so I love my mom and she did such a good job that I didn't feel like anything was missing consciously, although subconsciously it was absolutely leaving an impact on me. But she needed help, you know, because she had to play both roles. She had no choice. So she had to kind of step into a masculine frame, which meant going back to school, it meant going to work full time. So she needed my grandmom to rely on quite heavily for childcare. I was not a daycare kid. She tried one time. I 100% believe that daycare experience is when I got a spirit of anxiety. Really? That experience is so visceral to me, how scared I was and how traumatizing that was for me. Now, because of that, grandmom was just my secondary primary caretaker. And really co-parented me in a lot of ways. She lived right down the street from us, like the Philly Roe Homes. We lived in the Northeast, so it was like that kind of block. And then on the next block down, grandma was right there. So she was like, you could look out the window and see her house down the block. That's how close they were. And she was there before school. She was there after school. That didn't change throughout the entirety of my upbringing, all the way through my early college years. Myself and my grandma, we were like best friends. She was my favorite person in the world. And this matters a lot. Let me back up for a moment and just say that throughout all of this, throughout my adolescence, throughout my childhood, I always had a target on my back, which I'm actually in the process of writing my memoir now. So seeing everything in hindsight, I'm recognizing that really the devil has been out to get me even before I was born. I mean, my mom, when she was seven months pregnant, fell down the stairs, broke both of her ankles, had to give birth with casts on her legs, like hung up on the thing. Like he was trying to kill me in the womb. And just throughout my whole childhood, it was just like target, target, target. I stood out for no reason other than I was just Angela. It was, I was, you know, I wasn't loud. I wasn't obnoxious. I wasn't particularly like odd looking. I was just like a normal kid, but I always stood out. So I was always this target for bullying. No matter what school I went to, no matter what classroom I was in, it was always me who was isolated, who was the victim of just the most grotesque kind of bullying you can imagine. I mean, in the seventh grade, I got death threats from another boy in my class using words I had never heard before at that point, calling me this, calling me that, saying, he hopes I die, he's gonna kill me. It gets to a point where they, the administration comes to the conclusion that I'm leaving the death threats in my own desk for attention. So when I say these really out of pocket, unusual bullying situations throughout my whole life, it was that kind of thing. That really drove me into deeper anxiety, deeper depression. I had really no friends growing up. I had one really close friend who was actually Christian. Now they were more, their faith was always like the crux of their family, and I could always recognize that there was something different about her family than mine, other than the fact she had a dad and a little brother. But there was something about their family that held them in the white picket fence kind of thing that you see. To me, it always seemed so perfect, and I didn't know it then, but it was because they had Christ. Now, I never saw prophecy, I never saw healing, I never saw deliverance in their house, but I did see a love that I didn't really see anywhere else. And so that friendship, in a lot of ways, carried me through all those years of the trials and the tribulations with other kids. She was always my one, that I at least had somebody. And that becomes really important later in life because she was always my Christian friend, where as I started to get into all the New Age stuff later, I started to see her really differently. I'm like, she's just so judgmental, she's so hypocritical, she's so dry, she's so boring. Where as I was a chaotic train wreck throughout our entire lives. And what was really going on was that she had a solid head on her shoulders, she was being led by the Holy Spirit, and she was stable. And to me, stability looked really boring. And so that comes back up later. Now, I'm just like painting the picture of what the childhood looks like. Depression, anxiety through teenage years, this is when self-harm is introduced. I was cutting myself pretty frequently, and the music I was listening to didn't help with that. You know, I was like the emo kid. I was into the pop punk, I was into the screamo, I was into all that. That was like my identity. That was my anchor. I used to say, music saved my life. Like I was that kid, because I really had nothing, I had no other badge to wear. You know, I didn't have any friends. I didn't have any, like I wasn't good at sports. I wasn't like in band, I was just the emo music kid, which made me stand out more so in high school.

Speaker 1:
[27:09] Especially in North Philly.

Speaker 2:
[27:10] Oh yeah. You know, like I started wearing, you can ask my husband, he's in the room. That's when we met. I was like wearing like the bright pants, like, you know, I had like the teased hair and the bows and stuff.

Speaker 1:
[27:20] He's like, and I loved it.

Speaker 2:
[27:21] That's the version of me he fell in love with, by the way, somehow. So that was, you know, I did start to stand out in high school for that reason. And I probably deserve the bullying at that point now, but you know what I'm saying. So after high school, you know, I'm still self-harming. I'm still really into the music thing. After high school, I go to college and it's just like the same song and dance. Like, yeah, I have like a couple friends now, but it's still like nothing. I'm not friends with any of them, like to this day. So it was nothing sustainable. This is when I started drinking a little bit. That was never a problem for me in high school. That was never really a problem for me even in college, even after I was 21 and in new age, I would drink, but I was never obsessed with it. If I would drink, it would always be an excess because I didn't really know how to handle the alcohol because I didn't have a background with drinking like a lot of my peers did. So I would always be the one throwing up, which made me not want to do it again. So that's just kind of the relationship I had with alcohol. That was never my thing. Weed was my thing. I started smoking weed in college and that got worse in 2014. So this is what everything is building up to is this point in 2014 where we are on a cruise ship, myself, my mom, my stepfather at the time, and we get a call from my grandpa that my grandma died, just like out of the blue. We weren't expecting it. We weren't anticipating it. She wasn't sick. We wouldn't have gone to Bermuda if something was wrong with my grandma because again, that's my favorite person. I'm not going anywhere if something's wrong. So we are literally in the middle of the ocean and we don't even have our phones. My uncle, I just found this out recently when I'm writing my memoir because I made the connection. I'm like, I've been telling this story all this time saying what we had our friends, but you don't have your phone on the cruise, like especially in 2014 unless you're paying for it. I know my mom wasn't. I'm like, how did they get in contact? I just found out recently, my uncle, he called every cruise line like down the East Coast to find our boat, to find us, so he spent like all day doing that against my grandmother's wishes. She didn't want anyone to call us. She didn't want to bother us. Like that's just the kind of woman she was. She's like, don't you dare bother them on their vacation. I'll be fine.

Speaker 1:
[29:38] So she, when she passed, it was sudden.

Speaker 2:
[29:42] It was sudden, but she had gone to the hospital for stomach pain.

Speaker 1:
[29:45] Gotcha, so it wasn't like it was a car accident where she didn't have any communication.

Speaker 2:
[29:48] Right, yeah, no, it was like she woke up at 4 a.m. with like intense stomach pain, so my grandpa took her to the ER and they should have done an MRI, but they didn't. If they did, they would have caught that she had sepsis. And so the sepsis just like killed her instantly, basically.

Speaker 1:
[30:04] Let me ask you a question on this. So, and this is a genuine question that I just want your perspective on.

Speaker 2:
[30:12] Sure.

Speaker 1:
[30:13] Do, given what you've been laying out here so far and your life's blueprint and how I'm somebody who believes that the enemy has been studying us as individuals for our entire lives, and there's been plenty of people that came before us that are very similar to us, so they know what buttons to push. I also believe that spiritual attack can come in many different forms. And my wife is, we didn't talk about this beforehand, but I'm just telling you, I think the audience knows, she's in the middle of overcoming breast cancer. And so that happened, the diagnosis came in right when I accepted my call to preaching. The same week my dad got a heart attack, and he had a heart attack that same week. And ironically enough, my very first message was on spiritual warfare. And that wasn't in my bingo card either. So, I started looking at spiritual warfare in a different sense where it manifests differently. Do you feel that what happened with your grandmother was something to try to take you out at the knees?

Speaker 2:
[31:21] 100%. I fully believe that was not, because I know some people's theology differs in this area, but I mean, you even look at Job, because people say, well, Job suffered. I'm like, read the whole text. Satan came to God and said, I'm going to do this. Obviously, God has to allow things, because Satan isn't omnipresent. He's not God's rival. He's not God's equal. So God does have to allow Satan to do these things, and he will use it according to his purpose. But that doesn't mean God is out here giving people cancer. God's not out here putting sepsis in my grandmother and killing her on the spot. That's not who God is. That's not his character. That's not his nature. That is a byproduct of a fallen world that is riddled with sin and death and depravity and the demonic. This world is so bad that Jesus is going to come back and bring a new earth. Matter of fact, the heavens are so bad, he's going to bring a new heaven because even the heavens are infiltrated with the demonic. That's how bad it is. That's how evil is. And so I 100% believe that was a, whether it was a spirit of death, a generational curse, that was something that I believe took her out based on actually patterns in my family. So my great grandfather, her dad died of a heart attack. Another thing that's just like, you know, really quick, actually right before I was born, so I never met him, although I thought I saw his ghost when I was four years old, which planted a whole different seed we can come back to if you'd like. But he died suddenly for that reason. My grandmother and my uncle that I mentioned a couple weeks before, it's funny how all this stuff happened before I was born, my mom falling down the stairs, my great grandpa dying, a couple weeks before I was born as well, my grandmom, my great grandmom and my uncle were all in a car accident that my grandma was never the same after that. She had to get like major reconstructive surgery on her knee, and she never like walked the same. She had to gain weight and that she never lost after that kind of thing. So there was just like always something out to kill the members of my family. My uncle, my other uncle committed suicide, you know, like just like chronic illnesses running rampant in the family, all these sorts of things that I don't believe is coincidental and I don't believe is God's will for us. So no, I don't think that's that was a coincidence for me. And especially because that's what led me to everything, you know, he capitalized on the trauma that that induced to lead me into the occult. It was after that experience where I sought a medium because it's just normal, like that's just culture, you know. Oh, what's your sign? Oh, like here's a deck of cards, you know, like Long Island Medium, if you remember that TV show, was like so popular in that time frame. And so I was watching that. I was watching like Ghost Whisperer and stuff like that. I was always into the Paranormal shows. So I believed in the afterlife and I even believed in God. I grew up very, very loosely Catholic, you know, like some of my schooling experience was within Catholic school. I knew, you know, the crucifix above the door, that sort of thing. I sat in a confessional with a priest, you know, so I was familiar with at least the idea of God, the idea of Jesus, but it was always through the lens of Catholicism. And so I believed in God, that to say, I believed in the paranormal, I believed in the afterlife. I just didn't understand what any of that meant. So it was like all this paranormal stuff kind of filled in the blanks for me. And so I did believe in ghosts. Like I mentioned, I saw a ghost when I, what I thought was a ghost when I was very, very young. A couple weeks later, it was affirmed for me through my grandmother and my mom when we were looking through a photo album. I was like, that's the man that I saw. And they're like, oh, that's your great grandfather. And they were both, cause it was pretty fresh to them still only like three, four years since his passing. It was like tender for them to be like, wow, he came to visit her. And they both believed that. And so that seed was planted for me so, so young, just subliminally. All these things I see in hindsight, like, oh, wow, dead people, like loved ones can come back and talk to us and visit us. And so it's interesting that the first thing I did was go see a medium after my grandmom died.

Speaker 1:
[35:50] And I'll say one more thing before you keep going here. I can't shake the fact you were all in the ocean and the fact that if you try to think about, if I'm going to attack somebody like that-

Speaker 2:
[36:04] There's nowhere worse to be.

Speaker 1:
[36:06] I mean, it's wait until you're so isolated and you'll have a maximum feeling of, I can't do anything. I can't make the ship go faster. I can't make the ship turn around. I just have to sit here and suffer through this.

Speaker 2:
[36:18] We weren't on a road trip. We weren't even in a different country, just get on a plane. We had to wait three more days to port in Bermuda. The only time I saw the beach was when we drove past it, just straight off the boat on the way to the airport to go home to bury her. Yeah, that was literally the most devastating thing that could have ever happened to me. And in fact, I say it is the most devastating thing I think that could happen to me because I didn't have Christ. Anything that I would go through now, as brutal or as gruesome, whatever as it could be, God willing, nothing like that would ever happen to me again, but at least I would have Jesus now as my hope. I didn't have any hope then. I was completely void of hope and I was already depressed. I was already anxious. I was already suffering. I was already suicidal. I was already hurting myself. I was in no position to lose the person that meant the most to me in the world without saying goodbye. It was devastating, to say the least. And I was really desperate from that place to, for anything, just any semblance of comfort, of relief. And so again, you know, popularized through the shows I was watching, just like this subtle programming that had already been implemented. I'm like, I want to go see a medium. Let's do that. So me and my mom went to go see one about six months after her passing. And that was the first time, you know, since, since my grandmom died, that I experienced any semblance of happiness, because the medium, what I came for was delivered. You know, she knew things that she should not have known. She knew about the necklace I had on under my turtleneck that my grandmom got me. She knew the pet name my grandmom gave me. She knew what my grandmom looked like. She knew about the relationship with my grandfather that she had. She knew about our relationship. She even knew about the baby my mom miscarried before I was born. She knew about my uncle that committed. She knew everything. And it was so affirming for me to be sitting there listening to this woman tell me, your grandmother's here. She has not left you. Ever since she crossed over, she has been by your side. She will not leave you. You guys are connected. Like, she is watching over you and you can talk to her whenever you want. That was all that I needed for the floodgates to just burst open. That was the open door for me. That was the agreement, really. That was like the point. And by the way, this medium, she wasn't wearing like a pointy hat. She didn't have like long fingernails. She was just like a normal kind of elderly woman that you would just like see in the grocery store and think nothing of it, like nothing dark about her. Meant so well. I mean, you think you're helping people. She's gathering in homes with people that are all grieving and she's giving them what she thinks are messages from the people that they are missing most, that they're hurting most to hear from. And they're leaving with tears in their eyes of joy because they believe the messages just as much as she does. No, I don't believe that she, and this is how I feel about many people in new age, and myself notwithstanding that when you're involved in this kind of lifestyle, you don't have bad intentions, you have pure intentions. Going back to the intentions thing to begin with, because the devil doesn't care what your intentions are, he just cares if he can get you. And she even was telling us that day, I remember that, just to assure us in any sense that she was talking to them because she always would invite the Archangels, like Archangel Gabriel, Archangel Raphael, she would pray before the seance.

Speaker 1:
[40:07] That can make somebody feel extremely comfortable that has any kind of Christian foundation.

Speaker 2:
[40:11] Exactly. Again, I was familiar with Catholicism, so she told us she was Catholic, she had a rosary out on the altar, there was a crucifix in the room, so I'm like, oh, okay, this is no different, and in a lot of ways it's not. Just to be honest, not that different than what happens in the Catholic Church, but she was just so well-meaning and she was so kind, and she was insisting everything was holy, so I don't think anything of it. It's not like we walked into a dark room with candles and chanting. It was just normal and felt peaceful, and so I didn't think twice that there could be something dark there. Like I mentioned toward the beginning of our conversation, I would have never equated it with picking up a Ouija board, which would have been another modality. I could have just went to Target, got a Ouija board, and said, hey, grandma, are you there? But I wouldn't have done that because I thought it was evil, but this was okay. And so-

Speaker 1:
[41:07] Different paths, same destination.

Speaker 2:
[41:08] Exactly. Broad road all leads to the same place, but it is broad. And so I, after that day, she had cards out. She had like angel cards. They're called this Oracle deck where you pull a card and it's supposed to be a message from that loved one. So that's kind of how she closed out the session with everybody. Go take a card. You can keep it if you want. I have plenty of decks. So I pulled the card that said, we are so connected. And that was like, like I literally had that card up until the end of my new age journey. Like that one particular card, because that was, that was like my lifeline in a lot of ways. And so I went out and I bought that same deck because I was like, I need my mom to do this with me more. I need to do this with me more. I need to get my aunt to do this. I need my grandpa to do, like I wanted everybody to hear from grandma.

Speaker 1:
[41:55] You were evangelizing.

Speaker 2:
[41:56] Yeah, I was exactly. So I got the same deck of cards. I started reading about mediumship. I wanted to be able to do what she did for myself and for my family and for whoever else down the line. I wanted to be able to connect with people in the afterlife. I wanted to be able to connect with spirit and to hear those voices and to see those things because I thought it was such a beautiful gift genuinely from God that she had been given to help people and I thought well, if I can maintain a relationship with my grandmom in the afterlife, I'm going to do it because now my favorite person, we're actually no longer limited by the physical boundaries that we once were. Now, we can even be closer in a way and so that's what I really believed. I believed that me and my grandmom that our relationship was actually thriving in a different way that Earth, just her being here in the physical made impossible. So I started to appreciate her death in a new way, which felt like a form of healing for me at the time and starting to like maybe process what had actually happened and recognizing that it was for a greater purpose than what it felt like in the moment when it was super devastating and traumatic. And so that just led from one thing to another very, very subtly. You know, the cards and the books and learning about energy and frequency and how spirit works and how spirit communicates. And it was just a natural kind of sliding board, you know. I end up going to a metaphysical shop because I wanted to get crystals now because I had learned that crystals would be a great way for me to enhance my own psychic ability.

Speaker 1:
[43:45] Can you explain real quick metaphysical shop? Because I understand what you're talking about, but I don't think I've ever had anybody describe it as a metaphysical shop.

Speaker 2:
[43:54] So how do I even explain it? So like you walk in, smells like incense, there's booties everywhere. There's maybe some rosaries, there's probably chakra flags hanging from the walls, some tapestries, that kind of place, right? Like you got the golden calves basically lined up in the China case, and crystals over in the back corner, you have cards, you have books, no Bibles, but you have loads of books, feathers, sage sticks, all that kind of stuff. Like the occult buffet, it's a buffet. Oh, you get to like pick and choose what parts of this philosophy, and this religion, and that religion. Oh, let me just like build a bear in my own thing. And that's pretty much what it is. And so I did see elements of Catholicism within that as well. I remember, and this was all like affirming things for me going back to just again, being raised that way. That familiarity was like a comfort where it felt right. It didn't feel weird or woo-woo. It was just like, wow, this is what I've been missing, like the bigger picture. This is all just one big spiritual reality. And I haven't been tapping into any of it. And there are, all roads lead to heaven basically. And now I get to decide what that really looks like for me. And so that's what led me to The Crystals was the curiosity and the excitement and the exhilaration that was starting to rise to the surface after I had experienced what I did with the medium and felt the good feelings from talking to what I thought was my grandmom and learning that this was all for me, just as much as it was for her, just as much as it was for anyone else. Like this is all so accessible to everybody, but we just don't tap into it. And so I got The Crystals, you know, I heard a voice tangibly, because at this point, I am in communion with what I believe is my grandmom, consistently feeling physical sensations, like touching my back, hugs.

Speaker 1:
[46:14] You would really feel the hugs.

Speaker 2:
[46:15] I would really feel that, yeah. And just like the sense of presence in the room, next to me, beside me, just feeling what I thought was her. And so I heard her literally say that one when I'm looking at this one, Crystal, because I was asking her, which one is going to help me talk to you? So it was like my celestial iPhone, this one particular Crystal that I got. And that started with, I wasn't just the one, I got a couple of them. And so it started with just this really small nightstand of, I don't know, 100 bucks worth, that by the time I was done, almost a decade later, it was like thousands of dollars. And I'm talking a grid, an altar on every surface level in my home. If there was an available table space, an entertainment stand, a night table, a kitchen table, the shelves, the counters, there were crystals there because I needed them to be there. Because at that point, that's how it grows. And it doesn't happen overnight. It happens, it's like a slow drip. It goes from, I just want one or two, to now I need them in every room of the house, almost like a feng shui mindset. I need this particular energy here, and I need this energy here, and I need this to block the frequencies from the TV. And I need, it's just that mindset of, I need, I need, I need, I need. You become like an addict, which is what it is. There's a bunch of-

Speaker 1:
[47:37] It sounds chaotic.

Speaker 2:
[47:38] Oh yeah. It is.

Speaker 1:
[47:41] What I'm hearing you describe, it just feels like you probably were living an entire life of just chaos, this constant erratic nature. That it just, no matter what you're doing, you have to do something else to combat what you're experiencing.

Speaker 2:
[47:58] 100%. And that manifested in so many different ways, you know, because one thing is never enough, you know, like it started with the crystals and then ended up with like a million crystals, but it wasn't just the crystals. It was like, okay, well now what's from here? Okay, now we're going to learn about Reiki. Now we're going to learn about Eastern mysticism. Now we're going to learn about chakras. Now we're going to get in to yoga because I actually had, I lost over 120 pounds about a year and a half after my grandma died. Because as I mentioned, she was overweight after her accident and never really lost any of that. And though, so like her death was unexpected, but it's also the kind of thing where if she weren't so unhealthy, who knows? I didn't want to end up down that same road. I was only 20. I literally couldn't walk up the stairs. I was like so out of breath, so overweight, just like sweating all the time. I was drinking like four Mountain Dews a day, not zero. I was drinking four regular Mountain Dews a day. I just lived primarily off of Wawa, actually. And so-

Speaker 1:
[49:06] The meatball sub.

Speaker 2:
[49:07] That's Mike's favorite, the meatball sub.

Speaker 1:
[49:08] Is it really, man? I miss it so much. I don't want to derail the conversation, but you keep on bringing up Wawa.

Speaker 2:
[49:16] I am pregnant, just so everyone knows. So it's on my mind, at least always a little bit. Yeah, I was just so overweight at 20. And I decided to change my life because of that. And I lost all that weight. So I'm like feeling better, just in the sense that my body wasn't full of crap and garbage all the time. And I really thought that was going to be a major shifting point for me in my confidence and my depression and my anxiety, you know, not just my physical health, but my mental health as well. And to my surprise, it really wasn't. Like losing all the weight and being topically healthy, because I say that because although I was seemingly healthy, I still had basically an eating disorder that led me there, that would perpetuate for years to come after that. So it didn't help the way I thought it would, but it did become another identity point for me. Like now I look good, now, oh, now I have attention from guys, you know, people have bullied me my whole life, are now commenting, asking what I've done, you know, like to look so good. And so that became a golden calf in and of itself. But on that journey of weight loss, of wellness, of nutrition, of all those sorts of things, I found yoga, which felt like the best of both worlds to me, because it was a way to kind of bridge what were now my two primary passions, which was fitness and spirituality. So yoga was the perfect blend of those two things wrapped up in one practice. And I was addicted to it instantly. I mean, I loved everything about it. I loved how I felt. I loved seeing myself improve. I loved seeing the progress. I had never been flexible, but I loved seeing myself develop that ability and that skill. I loved when it got to a point where I no longer needed the YouTube videos. I just could flow. I could just do it and be there. And it became a ritual for me every morning, sometimes for hours. And sometimes even at night, if I was having a particularly anxious day, that's where I would turn. I would get high and I would do my yoga practice. So it was a lifeline for me. And I would notice, if I had gone one day without yoga, I was not well. I needed it, like literally to keep my head above water. I needed to practice yoga. Like any good addict, like you need your drug of choice to feel normal. That's kind of how it was for me. And that made me just want to be a yoga teacher because I wanted to be able to help people the way I felt like that was helping me. And this is the form it took for everything that I did. You know, like the crystals, I started wrapping the crystals into like necklaces with wires because I wanted to give them to my friends. I'm like, oh, you know, I know this about your personality. I think this will help you with the, if you, you know, your anxiety, I think this will help you with your relationship. The medium thing that's, I got the cards because I wanted to help other people. It's like every one of these things, it was for me, but it was for everyone else just as much as it was for me because I wanted to help people so desperately. And that's, you know, I wanted to be a yoga teacher, which I did eventually become. But the yoga obviously just led into more of the mysticism, more of the chakra stuff, which led into Reiki. And I'm talking, by the way, this isn't like all one year, this is like years of just adding a new thing and a new thing and deepening the old thing and just going further and further and further down this rabbit hole that I had no idea how to get out. And I didn't want to get out of, by the way, I was obsessed with the rabbit hole. I felt like I was so wise and I had so much knowledge and I was just so, I was so ascended, you know, I was getting to a point where I'm getting like prophetic words, demonic prophetic words for other people, where I could start to read them. I started reading cards and you know, the Reiki thing, I got Reiki done and I'm starting to experience real like visceral visualizations and stuff like that and feeling the energy move through my body in a way I never had before. And I wanted to do that for other people too and give them the same kind of experience that I had. So then I went for my Reiki certification. Like you said, it was a lot of chaos, but it didn't feel that way in the moment. It felt like ascension. It felt like I was climbing this ladder and I'm getting to the top and I'm achieving something. I'm reaching something that other people aren't getting. And it was almost my responsibility in a way to do that. And I really couldn't, it was at a point by then that I didn't know who I was without any of these things because they made me me. I'm at a completely different point in my life than the girl that I described growing up. I'm not the loner anymore that has a target on her back. I am really the hot girl. When I lost all my weight, I cut all my hair off. I dyed it bleach blonde. I don't know why that's the thing. It's so weird if you look at all these people in witchcraft, they dye their hair bleach blonde. I don't know what that's about. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:42] Sounds like a...

Speaker 2:
[54:43] Taylor Swift.

Speaker 1:
[54:44] Oh! Well, let's thread that out of it.

Speaker 2:
[54:49] She was actually, she was like a big thing for me, too.

Speaker 1:
[54:52] Do you think she's involved in witchcraft?

Speaker 2:
[54:53] Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1:
[54:54] That's what I think, too.

Speaker 2:
[54:55] 100%.

Speaker 1:
[54:56] I wanted you to say before I did.

Speaker 2:
[54:58] I actually have a lot of content on Taylor Swift because I speak very personally from what it's like to actually get set free from the bondage that her music puts you in.

Speaker 1:
[55:08] You know she's from Pennsylvania, too?

Speaker 2:
[55:09] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:09] Why am I missing, right? Yeah. Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[55:13] So I was just, I don't know, I just made like this new name for myself in a lot of ways. Like I was the cool, hot spiritual girl that every guy wanted and every girl wanted to be and like, look at me, everybody, you know, but it's so funny because I was doing all this stuff and I was still pretty sad. I was still depressed, which is why I would go back to the weed. The weed was, I was aware that it was a spiritual portal, but for me, I would have never like admitted it necessarily, but I knew that if I tried to go to sleep without weed, I would not sleep. I would never let the bag get beyond like an ounce because if I thought I was gonna run out of it, I wanna know what to do. So, I'm smoking so much every night just to pass out. If I was really spiritually enlightened and as mentally healthy and physically healthy as like I was presenting to be, I wouldn't have needed that every night, but I needed it every night. And so, it's just one thing continued to lead to another. The Reiki, I start doing that on other people. I'm more into cards now. The Oracle cards were all well and good. I had decks upon decks upon decks from like every everything you can imagine, like spirit guides, animals, angels, just like all these different sources that I was interested in connecting with and communicating with, which eventually led me to just like the traditional tarot. And got really invested in that too. Wanted to learn all about the history. Wanted to learn how to interpret every single one of the cards, how they would interface with one another. Just I wanted to become like a master at that, so that I could give readings to other people, so that I could do my own readings, which I did start doing that too. Now, this is a really interesting part of my story, where I'm sort of having a reckoning with myself, like, okay, I'm doing everything. I look like this. I feel physically better, like, you know, just in terms of my nutrition. I'm checking off all the spiritual boxes. So, why is this still lingering, this feeling that I've always had in my whole life? Why do I have these moments of just, like, utter breakdown? And, you know, there was a part of it that was, like, always justified learning about, I don't know, really, like, Buddhist and Hindu, I would say, like, primarily was what I was, everything I was doing was rooted in. So having the understanding of, like, reincarnation and, like, the karmic cycle, that was always, like, kind of a justification for me as to why pain had to happen, why suffering had to occur. I'm just working out my karmic journey. It's just a part of the process, you know? It's just a part of the thing you have to go through a dark night of the soul in order to reach enlightenment. So I had that understanding, which I needed to have, because otherwise, that's all for nothing, right? So convenient. So I had that, but I also, at the same time, couldn't reconcile why I was still so bad and why I was doing all the right things. Because a part of what I'm doing, and it's such a good juxtaposition because you have this process, but by the same token, all the ideologies are preaching at you that you're just perfect, you're whole, you're complete, you're divine, you're universal source energy, you're Christ consciousness, you're this, you're that. So it's like, how can it be both? How can I be perfect and divine, but also be a wreck in the middle of a process that needs to reach enlightenment, even though I am enlightened? It's just, you know, so that contradiction was like eating at me. And so I'm up Googling, you know, it's like what we do when something's wrong. It's like, and Google's like, you have cancer. It was like kind of like a spiritual diagnosis. I'm like, why do I feel X, Y, Z? And then I would type spiritual at the end of it so that it would give me a spiritual diagnosis. And I find you're a star seed. So I click that. I'm like, that's interesting. And I started reading this whole like blog post article about how the reason you're bullied, the reason you were isolated as a child. It was like giving an autobiography of my life up until that point. The rejection, the patterns, the relationships, all of the things. The reason that you feel this way that you can't shake it is because you're not from here. You actually come from the ninth dimension. So you can laugh. It's so silly.

Speaker 1:
[59:38] No, trust me, I'm not laughing. I'm in 100% agreeance with you because I've heard these things before. I was actually refraining from interrupting you because as soon as you said about the start, I was like, okay, I see where this is going already.

Speaker 2:
[59:51] Yeah. Well, so that's stuff like an inverted gospel because it's like you come from the Pleiades. That's where I came from. That's what I thought. You come from some intergalactic dimension and you have essentially chosen to incarnate on earth because earth as a planet is stuck in 3D consciousness. And in order for the whole universe to come into source alignment, every moving part of the universe therefore has to uplevel. So it was like the idea that, and it's so funny, like the language, it's like a body, right? It's just like how we talk in Christianity, like the whole universe is a body. And earth was basically a sick cancer cell that was infecting everything else. And so there were those of us that come from the stars that made the decision to come here and fix it.

Speaker 1:
[60:39] Out of your goodness, you chose to come here to fix.

Speaker 2:
[60:43] I'm so divine, I'm so enlightened, I'm so high vibe that I just had to come to earth to fix the problem and to help Gaia. That's what New Agers call earth. They believe the consciousness of earth is named Gaia. So that's like a goddess.

Speaker 1:
[60:59] And just for audience's sake, you mentioned source, that's god.

Speaker 2:
[61:03] Source is god, which you are also source. So you are also god, but god is also everything, but god is also nothing. It's like, it's such like a house of cards when you really like put all the ideologies next to each other, like it can't hold because it doesn't make sense. It all contradicts itself. But it sounds really cool and sounds really spiritual and it sounds really enlightened. So kind of just roll with it and whatever makes most sense that day. So that's what it was for me with the Star Sea Doctrine. I took to it immediately because it just like resonated that, oh, wow, okay, yeah, I can get on board with that. And it kind of just illustrates how desperate I was, like how sad I was that I would read something frankly, that ridiculous and believe it that I had come from the Pleiades and incarnated in a human body so that I could save the world basically like I'm Jesus. Again, counterfeit gospel, perverted body language. It's wild how the devil has to literally steal. He doesn't create anything, he just corrupts what already exists and turns it into his own perverted narrative. And that's what that was. So I ate it up. And it's because I needed a savior. Like I was hearing a counterfeit gospel, so I ate it up because what I needed was the authentic gospel. I needed the real savior. But I took myself as the savior instead. And that felt good enough to me in that moment.

Speaker 1:
[62:32] And I'm going to add to that too, because you talk about Satan and his tactics. And I've been really hitting this hard the last couple of weeks. And just in conversations, Satan does not care if you worship yourself as the savior of mankind, as from some star system, or if you're worshiping a blade of grass that you thought just looked really pretty. And now it's on an altar. The whole goal is to divide you from Christ. And so it doesn't matter if you're worshiping him, yourself, or some tree out in the woods somewhere. As long as you're not worshiping Christ, it's a win in his column.

Speaker 2:
[63:08] Exactly. Exactly. That's why I used to have so many different options. Because everything has to look appealing to somebody. And we all have different personalities. So something's going to drive from other people. Like I told you, the alcohol wasn't really my thing. It was my husband's thing. That was like his false god for a really long time. So the enemy will always find something for you to worship, for you to find counterfeit pseudo salvation in, as long as it's not Jesus. So with the star seed thing, I took that and I ran with it. And that became just crucial to everything else I did. You know, it was like, well, I got to do the reiki because it's a part of it. I got to do the yoga because this is a part of it. I got to have the right crystals because this is a part of it. I got to do this because it's a part of it. And that very, very organically led me, because it's all about the stars and the cosmos, that very organically led me into astrology, which it was always kind of just like a thing. It's like, ah, I'm a Gemini, I'm this and that. Because that's just how people talk. Like it's no different than, this is my favorite movie. Like this is my star sign, you know, it's just how the world sees it. And so I was aware of it on the surface level, but once I got into the star seed doctrine and believed that I chose my existence and therefore every relationship I ever had or wouldn't have and everything that I went through, including my grandmother's death, by the way, I had determined that she was also a star seed and we had contracted into this together because it was a part of, because basically her death would rupture my soul's awakening in order to ascend. So she sacrificed herself for me. Wow. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[64:54] That's like a lot of gymnastics you have to do to get to that point.

Speaker 2:
[64:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:59] Like again, like you spelled out.

Speaker 2:
[65:00] But it's all gospel. It's all gospel, just perverted.

Speaker 1:
[65:04] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[65:05] Like now my grandmom sacrificed herself for me. It's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[65:08] And it's not like you got off the cruise ship believing this.

Speaker 2:
[65:11] Right.

Speaker 1:
[65:12] This was a progression.

Speaker 2:
[65:13] This was a progression.

Speaker 1:
[65:14] Like almost like the depiction you described of the metaphysical shop, where it's just like all this stuff, you can pick whatever you want kind of thing. But it seems like your life became that, where it's just like, I'm doing this, now I'm doing this, now I'm doing this, and it's piling on top of each other. It gets you to a certain point where you're having these conclusions.

Speaker 2:
[65:30] Yes, 100 percent. Astrology was like the coolest part of it for me though, because having this revelation as I thought it was that, like my whole life was my decision, essentially, having my birth chart was therefore the blueprint of the life that I had sworn into, like soul contracted into as a star seed. And so it became like a cheat sheet in a way, like, okay, well, here's why I'm this way, here's why I'm that way, here's why I'm prone to this, here's why that. And I loved astrology because every practice that I was involved in, you know, all these things like have fundamental frameworks that you sort of just like deepen and flow from. With astrology, yeah, like you have a fixed birth chart, you have like fixed elements, but you also have an ever changing cosmos, you know, like the sun's always moving, this moon's always moving. And so there's quite literally something different every single day. And I ate that up. And then you interface that with your birth chart to see how like those things work together, like your daily horoscope with your actual birth chart. It was so profound to me and I got so, so good at it. I was an evangelist, like I was an astrologer. I was very good at helping people read their charts. I could look at somebody, I would know their sun sign, moon sign, rising sign. I would be able to tell them about themselves. I could prophesy, demonically prophesy over people based on their astrology, based on the voices that I heard giving me the information. And that became my niche, astrology became my niche. And this is more toward the end of my new age journey. Again, this is over an eight year period, everything that we're talking about, all this stuff happening, and I'm sure there's missing elements within that. But I would say the last three years was the astrology heavy phase. Even my yoga classes, when I did become a teacher, I would center most of the yoga flows around whatever the moon was doing, if the moon was new, and if it was in this sign, and if there was a retrograde, and how our bodies would need to counteract that, or come into agreement with that in order to feel better, or manifest what we want, that sort of thing. So I would structure my flows that way. My classes loved it because it was so unique. It was like astrological yoga. I was just so into it.

Speaker 1:
[68:07] You were teaching classes.

Speaker 2:
[68:09] I was teaching yoga.

Speaker 1:
[68:10] Okay, so this was not something where you were pursuing it heavily and just trying to help other people in your everyday life. This is something that you were actually working on.

Speaker 2:
[68:19] No, I went through the yoga teacher training. Yeah, I was really involved in it. I started, even in COVID, I would do it online. Kind of as a way to keep myself sane, but also try and offer, just when we're all trapped in our houses, I'm like, you know, come on Zoom and we'll do yoga for healing or whatever.

Speaker 1:
[68:39] I imagine there was probably a point where you, did you try getting like some kind of following online to really grow this and expand this out?

Speaker 2:
[68:47] Yeah, so it was like word of mouth with like the Reiki and the yoga and all these things. I did teach at a local studio for a while as well, but I started an astrology podcast late or early 2021. So that's when my now husband and I moved in together before either of us were saved, just to have to say that for the record, just playing house like the world does. So I started an astrology podcast that was all about new moons and full moons and kind of like the space in between. So the moon is full once a month and it's new once a month. So every two weeks, there's like a new moon report essentially. And then on the off week, I would talk about like the transit of, I don't know, Mercury or something. Or if we had just come into Leo season, I would talk all about that and what that means. And I was really good at it. I was really good at studying it. I was really good at breaking down like the numerology. I would correlate it with even tarot cards. And just, I just loved it. I mean, I was obsessed with it. And that actually started because I got the idea to do the podcast because myself and the group of friends that I had, we would, I would have never called us a coven, but that's what we were. Like we met up to sit in a circle around candles and a crystal grid and a bunch of tarot cards. And we would do a moon ritual.

Speaker 1:
[70:13] It's totally normal.

Speaker 2:
[70:14] Totally normal, not a coven, not witchcraft. So we would do that. And I started to get really intentional about those sessions that we had where I would start preparing all this information in advance so that we could have really like deepen the experience. And they were like, you need to like be sharing this with other people. Like this can't just be for us. This is too in depth. And then I'm like, I really should like this. That's the podcast. I was always skilled at communicating. I was always skilled at writing. And I actually, the same medium that we saw, who gave a message for my grandmom, I saw her later, a couple years down the line. And she told me that Archangel Gabriel wanted to change the world through my words. So there was like an assignment there that I was going to eventually write something, do something through books. I always wanted to be an author, so I figured I would write some occult books, some astrology books down the line.

Speaker 1:
[71:15] Isn't that interesting how there's half-trues and things?

Speaker 2:
[71:19] Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:20] Because if you look at your life path to today in 26, like that kind of is true.

Speaker 2:
[71:26] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:26] But it's like, we don't, and that's what I was saying earlier, I do believe that it's not necessarily omnipotent consciousness that the enemy has, but just repeat. It's around a long time, studied humanity, understands people's patterns, and it's like, let's feed her this card because we already know her propensity for it, but if we give it to her now, we can steer her in the direction we want her going.

Speaker 2:
[71:49] I do believe he can kind of read the seed. So I think he knew more about me. I mean, because he does know how this all ends. So I'm not going to speak to how much foreknowledge that he necessarily has, but he does know how it all ends. So to the degree in which he knows who plays a role in that, in shepherding the flock of Christ, versus shepherding the broad road of destruction. I don't know, but I do believe he had some awareness of who God called me to be and wanted to stop that.

Speaker 1:
[72:26] So, and I'm definitely not a theologian, and I don't pretend to be one, but bouncing off what you just said, it would make sense in this sense. In Jeremiah, the Lord says, I knew you before you were in your mother's womb. So, there's this idea that you as an individual in some way existed before you were in your mother's womb, whether you were just his thought or something. We don't understand the logistics of that.

Speaker 2:
[72:52] I heard someone say, and I don't have a biblical basis for this, but she said that when God puts you in a body, your soul, again, that coming from the I knew you, you have to pass through the second heaven to get into the womb, so Satan can see that and he knows that. Again, that's not a biblical basis, but I heard that, I just thought that was interesting.

Speaker 1:
[73:22] It's definitely interesting. The fact that before we as mankind existed, there was this war and there was this rebellion. There was this element of Satan existing and being part of this operation before we even were created. And so I can see your thought process with that and how maybe he could have a pretty good idea of who you are as you're being put into your mother's womb. Very interesting.

Speaker 2:
[73:53] Yeah, so I think to a degree, he might have known my gifts that God gave me, which is why I really try and speak to people in New York at this age and tell you like the gifts you have. If you are an astrologer, you're probably prophetic and Satan is using you for his kingdom. He's stealing it. He's literally stealing it for his glory to get you to advance his plan for your life instead of God's plan for not just your life, but all the lives that the Lord would like to use to minister to through you. Same thing, healing, like Reiki. Probably, if you're like a Reiki master, you probably have a gift of healing. We're all called to lay hands and pray for the sick, but the Bible lists that as a specific gift that people can have above just, I guess, the quote unquote normal believer to just lay hands and believe for healing. You have a gift of healing. So, oh yeah, you're a Reiki healer. Taro or even mediumship. You're probably the discerning of spirits, you know? You're probably a seer. You could probably really use that in the kingdom, but it's just God, the devil has to take, just take it all. And so I believe that's what he did for me, which is where that all would have led and continued to lead was just the evangelists of the kingdom of darkness, the astrologer, that would have written the books about it and done all the things about it and used everything. The gifts were without repentance, right? So he used everything God gave me for the honest blasphemy of who he is, which is so unfortunate and sad. But it got to a point where, so this is now late 2021, so I've been doing the podcast thing for a year, and it never blew up. I had a following, but it wasn't massive or anything. It was just a slow thing, a slow burn that I figured would grow over time. And it was September of that year, where I should just be good by now. I'm like 27 at that point, and I have a podcast. I'm really good at the astrology. I'm a wonderful yoga teacher. People are coming to me for tower readings. They're paying me for tower readings. They're paying me for Reiki. I have a studio in the house we lived at in Philly, like where I could facilitate Reiki, where I could do all that stuff. I was with Mike at the time, and that's like a whole other can of worms, like the relationship that we had and how dysfunctional that was because of my own dysfunction. You know, I had like a spirit of lust. I had Jezebel, I had witchcraft. And yoga, by the way, makes you like really hypersexual. So it was like, that was never enough for me. Like the stable relationship with the man that actually loved me was not good enough. I needed to go after these kinds of men and that kind of men. So I was just like a mess through and through. And I should have been okay. That's how I felt like I should have been okay by now because I was doing all the things. I was trying to live my truth and follow my heart and all the things I had always read and self heal and heal others and whatever. And it's like, okay, well, I still feel like a teenager in a lot of ways. Like I feel emotionally stunted. Like I cannot get past this. And I don't know why. What else is left? I felt like I had nothing else to do. I had every single book in the world except the Bible. I had every single book. I had all these certifications. I had all these accolades now. I had all this hidden knowledge. And I still had a void and I didn't know what else to put there. And I was literally on the kitchen floor, home alone, having a mental breakdown. And I said, Jesus, save me. And I don't know why I said that, because again, I wasn't, you know, growing up here and that. No one ever told me, even my Christian friend that I mentioned, she was never like evangelizing to me. She wasn't sharing the gospel. She honestly wasn't even aware that everything I was doing was demonic. So she was raised Christian, but not like with the recognition of spiritual warfare. I feel like a lot of Christians that are raised Christian, like culturally, don't know that the stuff I'm talking about is evil. So that was kind of that for her. Like she knew I was lost and she knew that Jesus was the answer for me, but she didn't know how to communicate that. And she didn't realize it was as bad as it was. So even she wasn't sharing the gospel with me actively at that point. It was just like deep calls out to deep like Psalm says, it's what I always chalk it up to. And I said, Jesus saved me. Nothing happened. You know, it wasn't just like the sky didn't crack open or anything like that. I just went to bed. It was late. So the breakdown ends. I go to sleep. I wake up the next morning and something was just different. It was like, okay, the intrusive thoughts that I always have. When I tell you voices in my head, like a ping pong match, like at war with one another, like actual voices, like schizophrenic, like voices, dialogue, that I could not shut off. That was not there. Something had completely shifted for me to recognize that. And I was trying to piece together, well, the only thing that's different in the last 24 hours are these three words that I said. So that's interesting because three words did what the last eight years couldn't on the hamster wheel. So, okay, maybe there's something to the Jesus thing. Maybe I should try going to church. Maybe I should read a Bible. Let's see what this is about. And so I started doing those things. And I came to the conclusion that I could have both, that like Jesus was going to be a savior in a sense that he could help me on my spiritual journey. And I recognized that I should be focused on him and on God more than myself. So I started to try and reframe everything that I was doing to now be about God. Like when I would do my podcasts on the moon stuff, I remember like sitting there studying and doing the mental gymnastics to like make it about God's plan. And it felt really cool when I felt like I could do that. Like, oh wow, yeah, this doesn't have to be about. So it felt like I cracked a code. Like I figured out that life is about God and not about me, but I still wanted to use all the new age stuff to prove that.

Speaker 1:
[80:40] It's almost like another piece of your ascension.

Speaker 2:
[80:42] Yeah, exactly. Same with the yoga. Like now I would like read Psalms and do my yoga. Even in my yoga class, I tried to say God bless you instead of namaste. And it was like everything that I did for the last hour, what like the flow state I had just led them through and brought them into. It's like it just ruptured as soon as I said that. Like his name does not belong in the yoga studio and you could feel it. And that was like one of the points of recognition for me where I was like, I feel like I'm forcing something, but I really don't want to admit it because it was hard for me to reconcile that. There's probably a chance everything that I've been doing is actually really wrong. And I started seeing stuff on Instagram. It's like the algorithm like reads your mind. It's like yoga is demonic, astrology is demonic. And I would see it and I'd be like, swipe. But the seed was there. And I'm like, what does that mean? What does that mean that it's demonic? And myself and my, he was my fiance at this point. So as soon as I encountered Jesus is when I got engaged. And that was actually a part of the blessing for me in recognizing that Jesus had changed something because a lot of the intrusive thoughts I used to have were about Mike and like, you don't want to be with him. Yes, you do, no, you don't. Yes, you do, you want this guy. No, you want that, no, you want to do that. No, you want to go like be a hoe. You know, that was kind of the voice. And that all, when those voices stopped about like talking to me about dying, talking to me about Mike, talking to me about all these sorts of things, I was like, well, I think I can actually like actually settle into this relationship. Not like settle down, but like be comfortable in what I've always actually wanted, which is stability and is to just be in love effortlessly with this man that has loved me my whole life in a way. And I finally had that. So he proposed to me, and it was this moment that I had always dreaded because I was afraid of those voices. But when he proposed, I didn't hear those voices. I felt peace. And I was like, yes, I can finally say yes. So we get engaged in this in-between space between when I have my feet in both kingdoms. And I'm talking to him on our road trip. We went on a road trip and we got engaged. And I remember sitting out on the balcony and I'm telling him, I'm like crying and I'm saying, I think everything is wrong. Like I think yoga is demonic. I think astrology is evil. And I don't know what I'm going to do because this is my life. This is who I am. And I've been telling people about this and doing this for so long. And he's like, I think that's a little extreme. I don't know if like yoga, you know, maybe the other stuff, like whatever. But yoga, really, it's like helped you so much. And that was true. Like it did. They felt like it was helping me so much, like all of it was helping me so much. But I could not shake that feeling that was coming up because I was reading the Bible and the Bible was doing what the Bible does. And so it gets to a point in December of that year, 2021, where now I actually reached out to a friend on Instagram, which he would be a great interview, by the way, by KingCat 2.0. Kevin.

Speaker 1:
[83:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[83:54] Yeah, he's amazing.

Speaker 1:
[83:55] So you reached out to him in 21?

Speaker 2:
[83:56] In 21. I have been following him. That's why, again, I appreciate shows like yours. I appreciate people like him because it caters to a secular world through a biblical framework, which is so necessary. So I had started following him in 2020 when everything hit the fan, and he was the only creator that I was following at that time, at least, that was making sense of everything that was happening, but explaining prophecy, explaining scripture. And I thought that was interesting. I was still a new age, but I'm sure there were seeds being planted there. I just thought it was crazy that the things that he was putting two and two together with was actually in the Bible, like the things that we were experiencing. I couldn't really make sense of that. But that said, I had come to just find him as a person that I could trust, not that we were friends at that point, but I trusted his opinion when it came to things because I had never really heard anyone else speak the way that he did on scripture. So I reached out to him and I said, hey, I know you don't know me. I've been following you for a while. I do astrology. I just kind of started getting to know Jesus. I can't shake this feeling that maybe there's something wrong with it. But how could it be wrong? Because God made the stars, God made the moon, God made the sun, God made the earth. And if we kind of frame it as God's plan for our life, is it really bad? He made it for you. You're new-agers cherry pick the times and seasons verse all the time. That's what I was doing. Like times and seasons or whatever. And he's like, I'm just going to say this very gently. If you really want to know Jesus, you got to give it up. And then he just sent, that's all he said. And then he sent me Isaiah 47, when God rebukes the Babylonians for practicing astrology. And he essentially says, you know, let your astrologers come forth, let them save you. They can't, they can't even save themselves. Their fire is no fire to sit before, and they're going to burn up in their own. And I read that and I felt the Holy Spirit convict me. And that was the first time I felt like the reality of not just like, is this like wrong? But I felt the reality of what sin was. I felt that awareness. Like my mind just changed instantly, like supernaturally. And I was literally in a bar with Mike when this is happening. Like I had a little bit of a buzz. I'm reading a DM in between our pool game. And I just like sobered up in every sense of the word, like physically, emotionally, spiritually. And I literally got bored again in the middle of a bar. And I'm like standing there and it all just, it's like everything because the Holy Spirit entered me. And so I have his awareness now and his wisdom. And I'm aware of the gospel. I'm aware that Jesus isn't just like some name you call on when you need help. And like, he's not just a savior. Like this is God, this is Lord. And I've been disobeying him this whole time. Like, still to this day, I can't help but get emotional. Cause it was so sobering, like, you know, no pun intended. It just was so sobering, like, wow. And cause I didn't feel condemned about it. I felt like I figured it out. Like I've been trying to figure it out this whole time, but he just showed me what was wrong the whole time. It was me. The very thing that I thought was supposed to heal me was making me more broken. And the road that I had been walking down that promised me enlightenment was blinding me even further than I was when I first started. And it was just so kind of him to show that to me. And I just, I literally got born again right then. And I remember him looking at me. Mike was like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah. And I'm like inside, no, I'm not okay. I don't know what just happened. I'm new, all of a sudden. And the next day I call my friend, Alyssa, the Christian. And I'm like, you're the only person I feel like I can call right now. And this won't sound completely off the wall, but I can't do yoga. I can't do astrology. I can't do reiki. I can't have my cards. I can't have my crystals. I can't have the statues. I can't have the, I need to literally take everything off my walls. I had, my house was basically became a metaphysical shop that I described. It was literally what the inside of my house smelled like and felt like. I was like, I gotta get rid of everything. Can you help? And she's like, come over. Like she had a fire. I didn't even know. Like I hadn't read acts. I didn't know that they burnt all their witchcraft paraphernalia. It was just the Holy Spirit now just starting to guide this process for me. So I collected everything. And I had to wait till Mike was at work because, you know, it's so interesting as he had witnessed me through every season of life. Again, going back to like the orange skinny jeans and teased hair, every season of life, including all of the New Age stuff, it never bothered him. But the second I wanted to get rid of all of it and turn from it, he was like so triggered. He's like, what do you mean, Jesus? I don't want you. What do you mean you want to take this stuff off the wall? He never cared about it. It wasn't his aesthetic. It wasn't his thing. He was just so neutral to all of it. It was just kind of like, yeah, you do your thing. You know, I love you. That's cool for you. It's not for me. It's whatever. But with Jesus, he couldn't have that like blase apathetic attitude for whatever reason. It's almost like, you know, it's because the Holy Spirit that I now had and that I invited into the house and the atmosphere was triggering his demons. And so I had to wait till he was at work to collect everything in a box because I knew he would have issues with like coming home. You know, just if he saw me doing that, he would have tried to stop me. So I had to wait and collect everything in all these boxes and all these trash bags. And I drove in the dead of night to Alyssa's house. And it wasn't really the dead of night, but it was like 5 p.m. and it was dark because it was the winter. So I felt like the dead of night. I went to her house and her dad was just so helpful and supportive of me. Like this was all this was new for everybody, but they were all thrilled seeing me talk about Jesus because they had seen me. You know, me and Alyssa when we were younger, like I got us in trouble with the police. Like I was the one that was always having parties and drinking and blacking out. And I was the one that like would, if there was any sort of trial that she had ever been involved in, it was my fault. And so, you know, they saw me go through everything. They knew about the self harm. I was in a psychiatric hospital for a while. They saw everything. They knew about, you know, my mom, obviously. So they were just very excited and wanted to support me however they could. Again, they didn't really understand the magnitude of how demonic everything was that I was involved in. They were just really happy to be there through the process of me coming to Christ. So he was really supportive. He helped me get everything out, all the heavy stuff. And he's cracking jokes. I have all these big Buddha statues. He's like, this guy seems nice, you know? And he takes everything from me. And I'm like, I really want to smash this stuff. I really want to burn this stuff. It was so funny. Some of the stuff would not burn. These books would not burn no matter what, how long they sat in the fire. They just would not. My journal would not burn. Like a little thin notebook, it wouldn't burn. So we're like out there for hours. And I knew nothing about spiritual warfare. I didn't know how to pray in authority. I didn't know I had authority. To be honest, I didn't want anything to do with spirituality anymore anyway. So I wouldn't even have entertained that. If someone had told me, you need to like be praying against the spirits attached to this. You need to like get deliverance right now. Like that's what I needed. Because I was feeling like the soul tie. I was manifesting in like the demons that I had. Even as a believer, I was manifesting while that was happening. I was feeling emotional. I was feeling grieved. I was feeling anxiety. I was feeling all these things. So it got to a point where there was just too much stuff left over. So her dad like took it all for me and he took it somewhere. Like he took it to a dump or something. He's like, you don't have to go home with it. So I didn't. But that drive home, again, I'm manifesting like I was like falling asleep at the wheel. Like I was not okay. And I thought it was just like, I didn't know I had demons, you know. I just thought it was like, oh, I'm just like energetically cleansing because my language was still kind of. New agey. Yeah. And that was it. That was like, you know, the born again big moment. I stopped teaching yoga. I told all my students why they weren't happy. They thought I went crazy. I shut down. I did go crazy. I literally went crazy for Jesus. I couldn't stop talking about what the truth was. My friend circle. I had my step sister at the time. No longer my step sister. My mom and my stepdad got divorced. But like she she was like my guru in a lot of ways. She introduced me to Reiki and cards and stuff like she blocked me when I told her what I came to. Still to this day, we have not talked. All my friends thought I had gone like cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And a lot of them, you know, said, oh, you just get so passionate about things. It's just gonna pass just like everything else. And now it's like, still waiting for it to pass girls, you know. It's so many years in now and it hasn't passed. It's just gotten more intense. And actually one of those girls got saved within like the last year. Like she had this experience where she hurt her foot. And I remember her posting on Facebook like that she was doing reiki on it. And I literally prayed, I said, God, do not let her heal from that. Don't let her have a fake healing from it. Don't let it not work. I don't want it to work. Like I need her to encounter you. And then when we met up actually pretty recently, she was visiting Nashville and she told me it didn't work as I told her what I prayed. And she said that was actually the time she picked up the New Testament during that period.

Speaker 1:
[94:08] Really?

Speaker 2:
[94:09] And that's, yeah. So she actually ended up getting saved, still praying for all the other girls in that circle. And it's really sad because a lot of their lives are falling apart, like divorce and stuff. And they don't even see why, but you can see when you're not blind, you can see pretty clearly. And it's like, I see what's happening. The enemy is following through with this plan on your life to steal, kill and destroy. If everything's going wrong, it's probably because you're on the wrong path. And so, yeah, still praying for them, but everyone just thought I lost it. I mean, even my mom's like, are you okay? But my mom actually started going to church with me because she saw, you start to see fruit in someone. And she saw that change. She saw that there was like joy now. She saw that there was peace. She was relieved in a way too, to see me kind of give up some of that other stuff because it meant some of those people were gonna fall away from me now and she didn't think they were good for me. So she went to church. She actually accepted Jesus as well. And then the hurdle of the gospel came into my reality. Now the things that I started to struggle through were now biblical things and not just following after the devil, byproduct, consequence, cause and effect sort of thing. So now I'm saved, but Mike wasn't. And now I'm actually happy to be engaged. I told you those intrusive voices left me, those demons left. And I'm excited to get married, but now he doesn't want to get married. And I'm not sure I can get married because.

Speaker 1:
[95:57] A yoke.

Speaker 2:
[95:57] A yoke. And I started learning about that. And then I felt like almost mad at God. Like, why would you save me? And like, why would you let me be happy and get engaged? And why couldn't we just get married first before I knew about this thing? And, you know, I would pray to God. Like I was telling you pre-roll, I prayed just this bizarre prayer, just looking for a sign, you know, I'm a babe in the faith, still asking for signs. I'm like, God, give me a sign that you're gonna save him. This is so chaotic. I don't know what's gonna happen. He's like deep in drinking at this point, just so in such rebellion against me, against God that he claimed wasn't real, but he couldn't help but talk bad about him anyway. And he gives me the specific sign I'm asking for is set us up in Tennessee. Mike comes home, says he got offered a job he didn't even apply for as a manager at a restaurant in Tennessee. So things like that started happening. And really long story short, Mike actually lied about being Christian for a while because he wanted to save our relationship. And that doesn't work. You can't fake that. So that fruit started to show. And what happened ultimately was I got water baptized a year after my salvation. The devil really had me put that off. It's not really that big of a deal. It's just a public display of affection. It doesn't really matter sort of thing, but it mattered a lot because that's when my eyes opened to really the spirit realm in the godly way. I had mentioned I wanted nothing to do with the supernatural. And that was true. Like anything remotely spiritual looking turned me off instantly. I started listening to people that were cessationists just plainly on YouTube, ex-new agers that had come out of Witchcraft that are trying to warn about all these people in the faith that are operating under the Kundalini spirit. So I start believing everyone's a false teacher. The demonic is everywhere. It's even in the church. Kundalini is everywhere. All these people think that they're doing healing and prophecy and deliverance and casting out demons, but they're getting more demons. And it's just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm out here trying to tell people about the dangers of the new age and preaching about the counterfeit while now starting to blaspheme the authentic at the same time. And so once I got water baptized, I actually could see that.

Speaker 1:
[98:27] Really?

Speaker 2:
[98:27] Yeah, I could have.

Speaker 1:
[98:28] So that was like a peeling back the blinders moment for you.

Speaker 2:
[98:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[98:32] Interesting.

Speaker 2:
[98:33] It was, I mean, literally, it talks about in Peter how baptism is like the, it's the equivalent to, you know, the days of Noah, like the spirits that were drowned and in prison in Jesus, going to kind of like confront those spirits before he rose. And like, that's really what happened. Like those demons that I had, they were confronted, and they started to get drowned out and roused up. And I should have gotten immediate deliverance, but, you know, the church that I was a part, like, does not pray deliverance, so, you know, they just come out of the water, yay! And then the biblical precedent, you're led right into the wilderness. So that's kind of what happened. And I needed deliverance. And so what happened was I got deliverance, a year saved at this point, and had real demons cast out of me, like the Kundalini spirit, the real one, the witchcraft spirit, all the spirits that I had come into agreement with through divination and the medium and the tarot cards and the yoga. There was a lot of demons from yoga.

Speaker 1:
[99:38] How does that unfold for you? So you go from not believing that's for Christians to be doing, to now you're having all this stuff cast out of you.

Speaker 2:
[99:47] It came the same way as my salvation did, which was just like a humility to be wrong about it. Because I started to, and I believe it was the Holy Spirit, that's like, you're giving the devil a lot of credit. You really are. The devil can do all these things. You know the devil can do all these things. Well, what about me? Where do you think all this comes from? All the counterfeits you talk about? Because I was always talking about, this is a counterfeit, this is a counterfeit. He's like, where do you think the counterfeit comes from? What do you think it's a perversion of? It's like me, I'm the same yesterday, today and forever. And so what, is it just like the devil is like the only one with any supernatural power and the Holy Spirit retired in 98 AD? Like he's just, he's gone. No, and I, you know, and I realized that might have been a part of the problem all along. And I do believe this is a really, really intentional tactic of the enemy where he's infiltrated the church with dead dry religion through cessationism. Again, my Christian friend, I saw the love and the fruit, which was the most important thing to see in their house, but I never saw anything super. I wouldn't have even thought to look in the direction of Christianity for anything remotely spiritual because it never was. It was just a book, father, son, Holy Bible. That's it. And so I think the devil's done a really good job at convincing the church that wonder working power is not for today because we all have an inclination toward the spiritual. We all do. We are all made in the image and likeness of God. God is a spirit. So if we're made in that image and likeness, and we have a propensity for this, to pursue this and to desire this, and you never see that the demonstration of the kingdom of God, where it belongs in the church, and the only place you ever see spirituality or power or whatever is in the occult, well, where am I going to go then? So he's done a really good job. And that was the next step for him with me, because he knew he lost me eternally, but he could at least tame my efficiency. So he was going to just have me be one of those like, you know, ministers online that don't really have ministries, like they have tabloids because they just talk about what they think everyone else is doing wrong instead of spreading the good news. That's where I was going. Like I was going to like talk about how everyone else, they're all deceived, all these Christians are deceived because they think that they're doing deliverance. They think that they're doing healing. But no, now I'm someone that actually goes out and casts out demons and sees people actually get set free and actually lays hands on people. I'm not boasting in my own like, look at how great I am, but it's I'm actually doing the work Jesus called me to do. And it's so interesting because all I ever wanted was to help people. And that's actually what the Great Commission is, was to go out and make disciples. And so he even perverted that desire. And now I get to be used as a vessel of the kingdom of God to see other people know him the way that he desires to be known by them. And so it came to answer your question, I had to get really humble and say, I remember crying, I'm like, if I'm wrong about the deliverance thing, please tell me now because my platform was starting to gain traction. My testimony blew up. I did not expect it. I didn't really want it. I just knew I needed to tell people that what I was doing was wrong. So I needed to repent publicly, which is why I made a video on my old podcast. And I'm like, this is all wrong. It's all evil and demonic. I'm done. I'm sorry. And that blew up. And then people wanted to start interviewing me and talking to me. And I did get kind of platform too quickly in a lot of ways and praise God he's used all of that. Yes, but I wasn't really plugged in yet. I wasn't like being properly discipled at that point. So there was a danger there, which was evident in the way I started believing false doctrine about the Holy Spirit. And so, you know, after the baptism, when I'm experiencing all this stuff, I'm like, Lord, if I'm wrong about deliverance, from wrong about the gifts of the spirit, I want to know, like I want to submit to your way because your way has just proven to be better at this point. So show me. And then he did. And it's like that willing, like scripture talks about that, if you are proud, he will actually resist you. So you can't even like come to the full awareness of things because God himself is resisting you and your pride to even come to even consider it to be true. I had to get humble and low so that he could exalt me into that knowledge and awareness. And he did. And that was, I mean, a game changer for me. And no one can ever say nothing to me about deliverance because I know what it's done for me. I know that my entire walk changed after those demons left. And I know that that night, my then fiance saw me get deliverance and he left that night with the intention to call off the wedding and got born again after my deliverance. So no one can ever tell me. It's like not a thing because if he had not experienced, you know, Jesus says when I cast out demons, by the finger of God, the kingdom of God has come upon you. He experienced the kingdom of God, which then opened him up later that night to say, okay, if you're there, I really want to know. And he got saved that night. And then we got married a couple months later and conceived our daughter on our wedding night. And now we have our second on the way. So the Holy Spirit, like the totality of who God is changed my life. I wasn't just set free from hell, which praise God I was. I wasn't just set free from hell and depression and those sorts of things. I was also set free from the illusion of just, God's like sitting on his hands and one day the rapture is gonna happen and everything gets better. So that's kind of it.

Speaker 1:
[106:01] Well, I mean, one, I find your testimony very encouraging. And I'm sitting here and I wonder if Jack was thinking the same thing as me, because there were several times and I can't pinpoint much, but there were their essence of your testimony that I was like, that sounds like me. Like I was like, holy cow. And I was thinking, is there something to do with coming from Philly? And it's like, I like-

Speaker 2:
[106:25] Principalities, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[106:26] A regional principality, yeah. And I was like, holy cow. I wanna, the night of deliverance, and you said that you now are in deliverance ministry. What does that look like for somebody who doesn't know what deliverance is? Because I mean, we get the Hollywood version of stuff, and people screaming and crawling up walls.

Speaker 2:
[106:49] It's like, it's another tactic.

Speaker 1:
[106:50] That's another way to scare people away from it.

Speaker 2:
[106:51] It's another tactic of the enemy. He is everywhere. He is trying so hard. He has to do all these cartwheels because his time is short. So it's like every possible angle that he can, just in state deception, he's going to do it. So yeah, we think, you know, you hear even the word exorcism. You think of the movies, you think of the Conjuring. This is, you know, like Emily Rose, it's like...

Speaker 1:
[107:16] Lay down plastic bags, about to get messy.

Speaker 2:
[107:18] Yeah, she's green and she is completely out of control. It's really not like that. Like most people are walking around, probably with demons. If you have childhood trauma, you probably have a demon. Like, and it's not this like, what do you mean I have a demon? It's, we are spirit, soul and body. God is father, son, holy spirit. Like everything's trying, everything's in threes. Like even the three restorations, you know, like our body, the body and the earth, like everything, like God just is so intentional in his order and his structure of things. We are no different. You even see in the Genesis account, like he breathed the spirit into the body and then he became a soul. We are, we are three part. And the spirit is what gets separated from God. When we are, you know, born in sin shaped in iniquity, that needs to be reconciled by the resurrection of the holy spirit and dwelling within us. But obviously, you know, we're still walking around like without God, like even though we're dead in our sin, dead in our transgression, what does dead mean? It means in that context to be separated from God, which our spirit is, our spirit is buried under that sin. But I can still have consciousness. Obviously, I still have a will. I still have emotions. I still make decisions. That's my soul. So we have a soul even when our spirit is born again. And it's because your spirit is born again, now that you actually have the spirit of God within you, now you actually have the liberty to be free from all of that bondage. So when you're in new age, you don't have a living spirit. You're constantly on this hamster wheel, trying to heal within the realm of the soul, in the soul that it's like trying to untie a knot from the inside. Like you can't do it. You need him to come in and do it for you by his spirit. And so that's like the bondage of the new age. And yes, you do get demons that way. It says in Matthew that a demon can go out, not when it's cast out, but when a demon goes out, it wanders dry places and then it comes back home to find its source swept clean and it brings seven more evil. That's literally the story of new age. You feel relief for a little bit because the demon goes out and leaves, wanders for a while, and then it comes back with more. So you're in worse bondage. And so that stuff, all that soul stuff, it doesn't just go away. I try and tell people, there's this argument. It really just comes to a lack of understanding. And like you said, I'm not claiming to be a theologian, but it comes to a lack of understanding, the body, soul, and spirit distinction that scripture makes clear over and over and over and over again. They're like, well, the Holy Spirit doesn't share space with the demon. He doesn't have roommates. How could you even say that? First of all, the Holy Spirit's everywhere because God's omnipresent. So if he's everywhere and demons are somewhere, then you're kind of saying that he's not somewhere when that's not true. He is everywhere. That's a great point. But the other great point is that, okay, so you can't have a demon, but you can go watch porn, you can go sin, you can get cancer, you know? Your body can still be infected with disease and sickness and death. We're still going to die. Our body is yet to be glorified. So our soul and our flesh have yet to be glorified. That's why sanctification is an ongoing process. That's why he's faithful to complete the work he started because the work isn't done until we're glorified. Right now, we're justified, but we're not glorified. And so in the soul, there's still sanctification to be done. This is another perversion in new age. You talk about the process, the process, the process, everything's the process. Okay, that's the counterfeit of sanctification because there is a process with God that he walks you through, that you are to endure until the end, that you are to run the good race of faith. We just see this over and over. And so that's where the demons go. They're in the soul. And it's not possession. People hear possession and they think ownership, but that's the wrong translation of the word. The original Greek of the word in the scriptures is actually just simply influence. Like you're just demonized. The same way you drink vodka and you get drunk. Like you're influenced. It's an influence. It's not like an ownership. It doesn't own you. And it doesn't control you, but it influences you. So if you hear voices in your head and it's like the third person, it's talking like you should kill yourself. You should do this. You don't want that. That's probably a demon talking to you. Your flesh doesn't talk to you like that. And if you've been in the occult, you 100%, I shouldn't say 100%, but you more than likely, I would say there's a 99% chance you need deliverance because you have just opened yourself up way too many times through too many different portals and too many doors to just risk not getting prayed over. That's all deliverance is, is to prayer. Come out in Jesus' name. And it really should come after baptism or like the first Peter mandate or just second Peter, first Peter. I don't have a pregnancy brain. It's in Peter. But that mandate, you really should receive baptism, I believe, before that, before that happens. And I don't even like saying to like, I'm in deliverance ministry. To me, it's just ministry because it's just what Jesus did. And it's just what the apostles did. It's just what the disciples do. It's just what he says to do. And so-

Speaker 1:
[112:47] You don't want to make it a shtick.

Speaker 2:
[112:49] I don't want to, yeah, I don't like, you know, unfortunately, in a lot of ways, you kind of get forced to because a lot of churches just don't do it. So it's like people think it becomes your whole-

Speaker 1:
[113:00] Well, Angela will do it.

Speaker 2:
[113:01] It's like, oh, well, they're just deliverance ministers. It's like, no, like there is like a deficiency. So maybe we have to overcompensate a little by talking about it a little more than we want to or modeling it a little bit. That looks excessive, but it's not actually excessive. It just looks excessive because there's a deficiency in the Western church where it's just not happening. Like you don't go to Sunday service and see people like getting demons cast out. Unfortunately, like that shouldn't be the case, but it is. And so it looks like it's like this whole ministry of, but it's not, it's just ministry.

Speaker 1:
[113:37] When it comes to your background and how you're viewing ministry now, is there, so I'm the kind of person that I'm scared of myself. Okay, so like the guys here at the office can attest, like I set precautions in my life because I'm scared to even get remotely close to the guardrail. And so when it comes to the ministry you're doing, just being in ministry, believing these truths that you know are factual and evident, and then knowing your past and where you've come from, do you ever feel like there are certain things you just, maybe it's mindsets or the way you're viewing certain things in a moment where you're just like, I just need to be careful in this moment because I don't want to give a foothold to the enemy to try creeping back into my life.

Speaker 2:
[114:26] Yeah, yeah, and I think, well, actually, in a lot of ways, I think my past has helped me pursue deliverance or just ministry with like a more pure heart because I know what it looks like to be operating in witchcraft. I know the posture of witchcraft. I know the allegiance of witchcraft. I know what those things look like. And so it's given me in a lot of ways a grace over ministry because a lot of people don't come from where I come from, which in and of itself is grace on their own life. But you get what I'm saying. There's just like, because of where I've come from, we overcome the evil one by the blood of the lamb by the word of our testimony. So it's the testimony that has helped me navigate like overcoming the enemy, even in other people's lives. So I've definitely seen deliverance. I've definitely seen the gifts, you know, operated in the way that might not be pure or of Holy Spirit for sure. Like that does happen. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I'm not saying we shouldn't test the spirits because we absolutely are called to do that. But we also shouldn't like, you know, the term throw the baby out with the bathwater because deception exists. We shouldn't deny the authentic.

Speaker 1:
[115:54] Absolutely. And I 100% agree with you. The idea you brought up a little while ago, how are you doing by the way?

Speaker 2:
[116:02] Oh, I'm good. Yeah, he's fine. He just kicked. He said, yes, mom.

Speaker 1:
[116:05] Okay, so it's a boy, huh?

Speaker 2:
[116:07] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[116:07] Okay, that's awesome. So you were talking about healing before and false healing, and we can maybe even go into prayer and the power of prayer. But I think that's a foreign thing for a lot of people in the sense that, and it's funny that you brought it up because we were talking about it at Nausium recently, but I think it's a foreign thing for people, especially in the church, to think that there's any kind of power that the enemy has that could present itself as healing. And I think that if people don't understand that aspect, then it does leave a very large wide open door for them to be seed by false healings and then be ushered into belief systems because they experience healing that is not of God.

Speaker 2:
[117:07] That's a great point. Yeah, the enemy comes as an angel of light. I mean, we see that in 2 Corinthians 11, 14. I actually say that's like the thesis of New Age, that scripture that Satan comes masquerading as an angel of light. But it is because he has the ability to do that, that we do have to be discerning. And we do have to be wise as serpents, innocent as doves, right? When we navigate ministry and when we navigate even the power of the Holy Spirit. But I also think that what starts to happen over time, and I'm not perfect, I'm not like sitting here on like a high horse, like I know the Lord better than everyone, I don't. I have so much room to grow and I have so many areas where sanctification is just like this process of like really being crushed, you know, really being crushed so that the oil can come. So I'm not claiming perfection or claiming like deeper intimacy with the Lord than anybody else. I'm just saying that the closer you get to him, I mean, he says, my sheep know my voice. So it becomes easier to discern what is him and what is not him when you spend time with him and when you are diligent in seeking him and knowing what he sounds like and knowing what his fruit produces. That's a really big thing if you look at healing, if you look at deliverance, because if it produces the fruit of someone that actually walks away free and then is not only a disciple, but is going out to make more disciples, that is really good fruit. If their lives reflect that of Christ, if there's good family life, if there's community, if this person is being discipled, that sort of thing, that's good. Now, if somebody is constantly coming back for more healing and more healing and more healing, there's something there that's not right that is probably traversing into a realm of potentially witchcraft, because whether they have a spirit of witchcraft or the person that's doing the ministry has a spirit of witchcraft, there's just a gap that's not being bridged there, because the Holy Spirit is not a hamster wheel. He doesn't lead you on a hamster wheel. He actually gets the job done. And now that's not to say healing happens every time. It's not to say even deliverance happens every time. I mean, Paul said, I prayed three times for the thorn in my side to be removed and it didn't get removed. That's, I really believe he's talking about a demon there. If you cross-reference that with Old Testament scripture, when they refer to a thorn in the flesh in the Old Testament, they're talking about intruders, invaders, like people that don't belong there. And he's saying, that's in me. I feel like that in his flesh, like I feel like he's talking about a demon that he like wanted to be delivered from.

Speaker 1:
[119:57] But for whatever reason, God was like, no, not right now. And so again, it doesn't happen every single time, but that doesn't mean we don't press on and like pray for and believe that it will happen. If God says the mountain's gonna move, like we're gonna pray that his will be done on earth as it is in heaven and that the mountain is going to move. That's why I pray, I try and, you know, focus on not just healing and not just deliverance, but both of those things. And like, have you been baptized? Do you really, first of all, do you really believe in Jesus is your Lord and Savior? Like you can't just, you know, just be praying healing and deliverance over people that like, you know, I feel like with deliverance especially, we see people like to make the argument that like, well, they, everyone you see Jesus casting demons out of in scriptures, they're not like, they're not believers. I'm like, what do you mean? He literally is speaking to them as daughters of Abraham. Like he's using covenant language with the people that he casts demons out. He's going to the temples. Like these are his people. And now we are grafted in to that covenant. Like this is our covenant. We are his people now. Like they are believers. He doesn't just, you don't just like go up to a pagan and cast a demon out because then seven more are going to come back. Like Matthew says, like the house has to be full of something. It has to be full of the spirit of God so that those demons don't come back. So if the demon is coming back, there's something wrong.

Speaker 2:
[121:21] Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, you bring that up. And I just heard this recently. And I think it's more of a thought experiment than factual theology. But are you familiar with the pastor Jack Hibbs?

Speaker 1:
[121:38] I've heard the name, but I'm not like closely familiar.

Speaker 2:
[121:41] Yeah. And I'm not either, but he's been talking about things on his YouTube channel that from what I understand are not totally within his typical wheelhouse they talks about. One of the most recent videos he had was called The Coming Demonic Invasion. And like this just the idea doesn't really cross his desk much. He said that with the idea of when you cast out a demon and it roams dry places, he said, do you ever wonder why it's dry places that the scripture says? And he suggested that when the flood happened and the idea of the dead spirits of the Nephilim, well, how did they die? The flood. So they go the opposite direction of what killed them. And then in Mark, when Jesus gets on the boat and the demonized man comes running over to him and he casts the legion out, he casts them into pigs and they go into water. So it's like, it's like, they're like, don't, with castes into pigs, like, I'll give you what you want, but I'm going to still put you where you don't want to be, in the water, you know? And, and I was just like, when he said, I was like, wow, that's, and for me, I love seeing that layeredness to scripture where it's like, you can apply it and you're just like, wow, it just brings it to life.

Speaker 1:
[123:03] Even when Jesus, you know, gets baptized, that's why I always, I like to use it as a framework. Cause he didn't have to be baptized, he's God. He already has the Holy Spirit, but he sets, he's like a foundation for us, you know. He says, I'm baptized to fulfill all righteousness. After he's baptized, he's immediately led into the wilderness, which is where he faces the devil. It's like, that's the place of the unclean spirit and he overcomes the devil. So I feel like that, and then you match that with the Peter verse that I'm describing. Mike, can you find that verse, the Peter, so I can like reference it clearly, so people can look it up if they want. So you like couple that together and it's like, okay, so you get baptized, you get water baptized, again, the water thing, and then you overcome the enemy, the place of the unclean spirit, you overcome the desert, you overcome the dry places, the wilderness and you get deliverance. So yeah, I think that that's a really, that's a really, really strong case. Also, they're afraid, I think it's funny, too, when you refer to Jesus as the living water. Because they don't like water. Peter, the Baptist, if you just type in Baptism, Peter, something will come up.

Speaker 2:
[124:19] Come on, Jack, race Mike. So while the guys are looking up that scripture verse, you had at some point been pursuing more of sensationalism, and you go to, I'm assuming different churches throughout that process. Was it hard for you to find a church to be settled into?

Speaker 1:
[124:50] Yeah, it still is kind of a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[124:52] Well, we'll speak to that then.

Speaker 1:
[124:53] Yeah, so when I got saved originally in Philly, I was already going to Calvary, just because that's where my friend went, and it was a good church, I thought, and just read straight from the Bible, which is, that was great. That's what I needed. That's what I needed at that point. And then when I moved here, oh my gosh, Nashville, you see people acting charismatic and stuff. I was like, this is fun. This is cool. They're standing. They're raising their hands, and not just standing there. So, the churches that I've gone to, it's not that they're bad churches. I shouldn't, you know, and I don't think any church is going to be perfect, but I just missed that element. It's almost like there's a fear of the Holy Spirit really moving or really having his way. And so I do go to a local church and serve in the local body, but I also, we were really blessed, myself and my husband, you know, as my platform started growing, I was recognizing, I can't be like this little, like sheep wander, you know, God wants us to be shepherded. He wants us to be in community. He wants us to be discipled. I'm not just a disciple. I need to be discipled. I'm very young in the faith. My husband's young in the faith. I can't disciple him. That's out of order, you know, like God help. I need pastoral covering. So we actually met someone through Mike Signarelli. He's been saved. He's been saved as long as I've been alive. I make fun of him all the time for that. So he's been, he was born again when I was born. And crazy testimony, like shot a dude, got saved in a shed hiding from the cops and was the pastor of a church and moved here from California, long testimony. So basically we do like home churches. So I'm like under, we're really like under his ministry, his leadership and like help him with the home church thing, which is like, you know, we see that in acts. I love it. I love it. We've, we see the Spirit of God move every single time. Just when people show up, we do like 15 to 20 baptisms at a time and see so many demons cast out, so many people set free. And then they go and they do the same thing in their home. It's really like the multiplication fat, like be fruitful and multiply. We're really seeing that in this little Nashville hub right now. And it's just really, really exciting to be a part of. So we were really, really blessed. And I know this is not everyone's story, which makes me so sad that they don't have a spiritual father or a pastor that they feel they can really go to for in-depth Bible study and like in the trenches with you, discipleship kind of thing. But we do have that. And I know it was not just for me. It was because God knows the responsibility with my platform. He's like, you have to be in order. And I see that as a problem on social media, obviously. A lot of people blow up and they have these great testimonies, but they have no community. And you can't be a Lone Ranger. There's no such thing as Lone Ranger Christianity. There's another deception even in that. You can fall into the whole, well, God said this, God said that, God told me, God told me. And then you start using the Holy Spirit as a genie. And before you know it, it's like the same language of New Age as Christianese. Because I'm like, my heart told me, I'm following my heart. Holy Spirit told me, okay, well, what did your covering say? What did your community say? What does the Bible say? Because it's antithetical to all of those things, and it's drawing you into further isolation. It's probably not God told you. It's probably a demon you still need to be delivered from because you came out of witchcraft telling you. So there's just so many different things. And I feel so tremendously blessed to be where we are and to be in the community that we are in and under the leadership that we are a part of. Seeing my husband thrive in his faith, just seeing all these biblical realities come to fruition in our lives, even within our marriage. I used to be naggy, nasty, controlling Jezebel kind of woman, kind of wife. I started to really embody the scripture that says, hey, you and your husband without a word, step back, give him space to step into. I started doing that. Guess what? Our marriage changed. Just seeing the Bible work when you submit to it is pretty incredible. I mean, like in every area. And that's not to say life is perfect, but it's a lot better than it was five, six years ago when I was trying to do it all in my own understanding without God.

Speaker 2:
[129:40] Yeah. Well, I mean, life's never going to be perfect, but that's the whole point of eternity. So we're fighting to get there. So speaking of home churches and stuff, have you ever heard of Francis Chan?

Speaker 1:
[129:52] No.

Speaker 2:
[129:52] So Francis Chan, I don't know where he's based out of, but, and I don't know if he's changed anything since the last I heard of this, but I follow him on Instagram because I just love his teaching. But he was a pastor. From what I understand, he was a pastor of a mega, mega church. And one day he felt convicted. And I'm pretty sure he just arranged to walk away from that church and started doing home churches and started multiplying with home churches. And to see how God has honored him through that process. And I'm not saying mega churches are bad or anything. It was a conviction that the Holy Spirit put on him. And maybe it was a conviction that the Holy Spirit put on him because there was a need for home churches. And Francis Chan was custom designed to lead that. I think sometimes we often compare ourselves to other people in the body. And we don't recognize the fact that we are uniquely and wonderfully made. And there's a reason why we are the way we are, the way we think, the way our brains work. It's the same thing with the public school system. I mean, I gripe about it so much. The fact that it hasn't changed a whole lot. The fact that they expect all kids to learn the same way. Listen, I was ADHD to the max. And I had parents who didn't want to admit that. So when they said, we think he should be tested for ADD. My mom's like, no, he needs to be tested for LAZY. Like, you know, it was like, I grew up in a school system that expected me as a child to be like everybody, like my wife. My wife was the exact opposite of me. She was like, hey, give me the syllabus and it's done. And so like, it's the same thing when it comes to walking out this whole faith that we have. But like, we have to understand that we look around the room and the Lord put people in our path to disciple us, to bounce things off of, to lay ideas before and say, what do you think about this pastor? What do you think about this, my spiritual father, spiritual mother? But it doesn't mean that the Lord's going to use us the same way as he's used other people. We're very unique.

Speaker 1:
[131:52] 100%.

Speaker 2:
[131:53] I got another question for you. When it comes to, over the years, we've talked a lot about witchcraft and in earlier days, I used to have witches on the show because I didn't know anything about this stuff and I wanted to learn. So I was like, sure, come on and tell me your witchy ways. And I remember there was times that I, I remember the very first time I had a witch, it wasn't the first time, but I remember having this one guy on the show and in the email, I knew what he had said. And I asked him, cause he said in the email, he said that he drives a city bus and I'm not going to say the city or anything like that, but he drives a city bus and he practices his spells on people. And I was like, holy crap. I was like, so when I connected with the guy, cause you know, that's what I did back in the day, I was like, oh, it'll be fine. I said to him, I was like, we don't have any issues, right? You're not gonna, he's like, no, Tony, I love you. I'm like, cool, man, you know? But we talk about all this stuff throughout the years. But one of the things we hear is which is in the church. In your experiences, whether it's past churches or just hearing about it, what are your thoughts about this infiltration of which is in it? Cause I think there's two, a couple of aspects of it. I think one, there could be literal infiltration of the malicious intent of which is coming into churches, pretending. But then there's also the Christian witchcraft that you were kind of talking about earlier.

Speaker 1:
[133:24] Well, there's three. There's actually people that are not saved at all, like I was, that just thinks everyone can live and let live and we can coexist and everything's fine. Maybe that guy that you had on just thought, we're just, you know, all roads lead to heaven, we're on the same team, just because you just don't know and in your ignorance, you just don't know what you don't know. So there's that. Then there is, yeah, there's the Christian that's like, essentially, you're, you're syncretizing your faith because you think you can have both, which is that fence that I straddled for, again, like three, four months. But you can't be a fence technician, like you can't be in the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness at the same time. You cannot be lukewarm like that. You are giving yourself, you are giving the enemy such an open door to your life through that. And you were being such a bad witness to who Jesus is. And you are denying yourself who he actually is by engaging with all these things that are antithetical to who he is. Like you cannot have both. You cannot just like casually read your horoscope. You cannot casually go see a medium. I promise you, if your grandmom died, I didn't even share that part by the way, that is not your grandmom talking to you. That is a demon. That thing, it came up to me, and this is before I was like involved in all the warfare stuff. I just knew, like I felt it come up to me and I'm washing dishes and I just knew, you get away from me in the name of Jesus. I don't ever want you near me again, like go in Jesus name. And I had never spoken like that. And that was like the one and only time I ever spoke like that. I told it to go back to hell where it belonged. And I never felt that spirit again, that demon.

Speaker 2:
[135:08] That was after your salvation.

Speaker 1:
[135:10] That was like very early. It was like before I was into deliverance, but I had never spoken like that before. I don't know where that came from. And I never spoke like that again until I lived here and was involved in all that stuff. But I just felt this like anger, this like righteous indignation rise up. Like this thing had been so malevolent to deceive me for so long and convinced me that it was like my sweet grandmother and it was a demon. And I was like, you go to hell where you belong in Jesus name and then never came back. So if you think you're communing with like a spirit guide or a loved one or you think like the cardinal in your backyard is like Uncle Joe, it's not like it's, you know, it's just the cardinal that lives there. You know, it's stop giving it like a spiritual meaning because you're opening a door to witchcraft that a demon is going to use to its advantage to come into your life and start influencing you in some capacity. You just cannot have both like throw out the crystals, throw out the tarot cards, like throw out the every identification that you have agreed with to your zodiac sign or whatever. Like you're not your zodiac sign, you are a child of God and that is what defines you and what defines you alone. You don't need any of this other stuff. Like I promise you that God is enough. I promise you that the Holy Spirit is more than enough. You do not need to accessorize your faith with witchcraft in any capacity, no matter how casual you think it is. And stop doing yoga. Like please stop doing yoga. I promise you are opening yourself up and pledging false allegiance to demons. All these little G gods that the yoga practice is curated to worship, you are giving yourself over to them. You are literally creating an altar out of your body for these false gods. And you can't worship God that way. He even tells us in the Old Testament, don't worship me the way the pagans do. So you thinking that you have the liberty to circumvent God's authority and the way that he desires to be worshiped is so ignorant and you are messing with strange fire. And we see what happens in the Old Testament when they mess with strange fire. They literally drop dead. And that's what you're doing to yourself in the spirit by participating in all this stuff. You do not need to syncretize your faith. So there's that. Stop doing it. And then, there are people, I do believe, we've even seen it at some of our gatherings, witches that show up. And I believe they show up to collect intel, try and curse where they can. Because this is a misunderstanding. Can I be cursed as a Christian? I think you can be cursed if you have an open door. There's a nuance there. Yes, you're covered in the blood of Jesus. But if you have an open door, let's just use it as an example since we're on the subject. If you are at home practicing yoga and a witch comes to your church and sets a spell on the church, guess what? You could come susceptible to that curse because your door is wide open to witchcraft through your yoga practice. So yes, you can be cursed if you have an open door to invite it in. Now, if you are sealed up, if you are armored up, God promises that every dart of the enemy will not come near you. They will all be quenched if you are armored up. That is the solidification of the blood of Jesus and the armor of God. But what's the point of armor is to keep out. So you wouldn't have to try and keep things out if they couldn't touch you. This is why we have to be so vigilant and aware and sober minded and walking in holiness and faith and purity. Because we do, we can open doors. And I'm not like encouraging people to live paranoid. That's not the point. The point is to just know him so intimately and so deeply that first of all, all this other stuff, you're going to lose your appetite for it. But second of all, you know what his voice sounds like. And you know the authority that he has given you through the victory of his death and resurrection and that that's yours to now apply and walk out in faith, which you can overcome all things through. So you don't have to be paranoid, but you do have to be aware and you do have to be obedient. That's what you've been called to do, which means you have to lay your life down in the things that you think you desire and whatever. So these witches do come in. They do infiltrate. They do try and collect intel. They do try and curse. And it really comes down to, these are the ones that do have mal intent because they know that we worship very different gods. And so they want to see the churches in the area, what are they lacking? Are they not fortified? What is like a theme here that I can kind of like harp in on and kind of like curse further? Is it like, is it injury? Is it hidden sin, like pornography? All these sorts of different angles that they can kind of hone in on even more within that particular body. And really the goal is division and discord. So it's to break up the church. If you see a lot of gossip in your church, it's probably witch there somewhere. If there is like failures in leadership, like happening a lot, like a lot of that kind of division, that like top heavy division coming from the top down, that's definitely witchcraft somewhere and open door somewhere. If there's ever been like a huge church split, there's witchcraft happening somewhere. All these sorts of things just to be aware of. But ultimately, like if you're fortified, I've been able to discern like there have been a couple of times where we discern there's a witch here. They've even like gone so far as to get baptized. But you can just like see in their eyes that, and this is just, it just comes with the discernment. I don't know how, you know, it's just the Holy Spirit, but you can see in their eyes, it's like this unrepentant, like I'm monitoring, I'm trying to watch. You just plead the blood of Jesus over these people. We just saw a really awesome video of this pastor who, I don't know his name, I forget who it was, but he was praying healing and he sensed there was a witch in the room and he called her right out. He called directly to her and she outed herself as, yeah, oh, I know who your father is. And he said, no, I don't want that. I bind that spirit of witchcraft and then she didn't come back. And some of the people in the church didn't come back either. And so it's just...

Speaker 2:
[141:47] Do you think they were with her or they just didn't like what they saw?

Speaker 1:
[141:50] Maybe both. I don't know. They could have gotten scared, but that is like the byproduct of witchcraft. And the only reason that they come to us is because we're the only true faith. We're the only ones that worship the true living God that they can't defeat. So they have to try and figure out to see if maybe we can. Because Satan will lie to them and say, yeah, we can overcome this. But they obviously can't. That's why they don't bother with anyone else. They don't bother with Muslims. They don't bother with Buddhists. They only bother Christians. And usually it's like real spirit filled churches too that this happens a lot of because they know that's the real threat.

Speaker 2:
[142:32] Yeah. It's interesting that you're saying all this. One, I think you laid out some blueprints for, I know there's pastors that listen to this show, for them to just understand and be aware what can happen in their congregation, especially if they're not as wise as serpents. And so I think you did a great service laying that out the way you did. But even in our church's sense, so moving down here, when I moved down here, I didn't move down here because I got promoted like your husband. I moved down here because I was demoting myself and I thought I was coming to retire. I was on a retreat mission where I wanted to get my family to safety. I was done with Philly and the political system and just everything that was wrong with the area. I was like, I'm going to go to East Tennessee where everybody's conservative, God-fearing people, and I'm just going to live in peace finally. And I come down here, and there's witchcraft everywhere. And I'm like, what is going on here? And I started learning that there, I think it's old witchcraft that's been here a long time. I don't know how it is out in Franklin, but here in East Tennessee, I've been pretty vocal about it. There's something to do with the mountains, the high places of the region.

Speaker 1:
[144:03] Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Mountains are portals. Yes. We even see that in the Bible, right? Like mountains are literal portals. So I used to know all about that kind of stuff too. I, you know, Mount Shosh-tah, like in-

Speaker 2:
[144:20] In Cali?

Speaker 1:
[144:20] Yeah. That was like my bucket list destination. Really? I wanted to go there because I knew that they're like, the Lumarians lived there.

Speaker 2:
[144:27] Yeah. I know. I wanted to go find them. I was like, I'm gonna go trap one and film it for a documentary. No, but yeah, I mean, living around here, I started seeing that and I was like, holy cow, God literally brought me to the front lines, you know? And I started realizing that was the beginning stages of the turning point in the show. When I moved here, I didn't record an episode for probably eight months because I didn't have the studio up and running yet. And so thank God that I was paranoid that I'd never have, that I wouldn't have an episode one week. So I recorded all the time. And I literally, when I moved here, had like 70 interviews that had never been aired. So every week, I'm just like releasing a new episode without ever recording. So when I first started recording, I was rusty, but it was the transition period. And I started seeing things and noticing things. And my friend, Alexander Pagani, have you heard of him?

Speaker 1:
[145:28] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[145:29] We love him. He's awesome. And he described it as a religious spirit that's down in the South. And we started seeing different things. And then the church that we go to, it's a charismatic church. When I walked in those doors, I was uncomfortable. Because I still had these Calvinistic roots.

Speaker 1:
[145:49] And I was like, you know, Philly is very dry Catholic, you know, just...

Speaker 2:
[145:55] You guys get it.

Speaker 1:
[145:56] Yeah, we do.

Speaker 2:
[145:58] Very. And, but the Lord worked on me. And I'm more charismatic today than so many people that I know. But going to the church, I started seeing things in the neighborhood, driving to the church. I was like, hmm, that's interesting. I wonder why they have that out year round. And, oh, I see that. I noticed these signs. And I started noticing things in the neighborhood that the church is in. And then a couple of years ago, there was this pagan festival. I still don't know where the park is, but there's a park in the neighborhood that they were arranging to do a pagan festival. So the week before, and the reason I'm telling you this, I'm going into the next thing I want to bring up. The week before, my pastor and other leaders of the church went through the park and prayed over it. And the next week comes, the pagan festival happens. We go to church on Sunday, and I didn't see it. Derek, my manager in the next room, he saw it. There were ashes spread across doorways of the church. And for me, I was like, ooh, time to fight, let's go. I was like, time to go. But nobody wanted to fight, so I just went to church that Sunday and worshiped. But I say that because I want your perspective on the, this is your perspective of the logistics of the supernatural realm. And I think it could be simply somebody in neighborhood that was gonna attend the Pega Festival, saw our church doing that and decided to retaliate like that. But I also know that there are entities that are in communication with human agents that will give direction. And with my pastor and the leadership at the church at that time walked through that park praying over it, I view it more than likely that there was definitely a spirit that was in communication with people directing them to do that, whether they were being directed because they knew that the week before there was prayer happening or not, or they would just, there was a sense of an order and a direction to do. But through your past experiences and also your new walk in Christ, where you're very active in pursuing him and the fullness of what we can do through Christ, what are your thoughts on the logistical aspects of the spiritual realm and what's going on in places that we can't see?

Speaker 1:
[148:25] Yeah, I think that's similar to how, it goes back to the perversion thing. There is a body of Christ, and Corinthians lays it out that we all have different functions. And we are more, if you think like an army, right? This is a kingdom, so we're enlisted in an army. One day, we will even have a higher rank than the angels, which is crazy. But right now, the angels kind of have their own realm, right? And the principalities kind of have their own realm. And we see biblically, like, we're not supposed to be, I've seen, like, Christians, like, call on angels. I used to do that in the New Age. Don't call on angels. You don't know who you're calling. You can ask God to send them, which I always do. You know, God send an angel to this principality, blah, blah, blah. So there's different, like, rankings. And I would say that we, in the authority that we have here right now on this plane within the body that we have, we have more of the same kind of, like, authority, so to speak, in Christ. That would be the battleground equivalent to, like, the disembodied Nephilim. So the demons, right? So the demons, not the principalities, but the demons. Now, of course, we have all authority in Christ. So again, we can ask God to get those principalities taken care of, and he will do that. He says he'll send angels on our accord. So praise the Lord. But we don't just, like, come up against the principalities ourselves. So the point that I'm getting to is that there are different, there's different tiers of angels and demons, and there's different tiers of authority within both kingdoms. And there's different functions within those systems, within those particular branches, you know, like in the body of Christ, you're a hand or a foot. In the demonic, you have different functions. Whether you're like a witch, a warlock, or whether you are a monitoring spirit. Now within the demonic realm, you know, the different demons are assigned to their different functions too. So when you were speaking about that situation, that's like monitoring spirit all over it. Like, yeah, the demon was watching. Now that could have just been a demon that was watching on its own accord, that went back to somebody that told them, or it could have been like an astral projection thing from like a witch or a warlock that sent the monitoring spirit to go wait and see if anything weird would happen, and then it came back to, so different, my point is that they just have different functions, right? Spirits are identified by their functions the same way. Holy Spirit, it's not just his name, that's his function. He is holy, he is the only holy spirit because he's the only spirit of God. Now, those demons and their functions, we have all authority to come against every single one of those sorts. Like, the monitoring spirits cancel in the name of Jesus, like, every assignment of every monitoring spirit I cancel in Jesus' name. The spirits of lust, like the spirits of perversion, the spirits of death, the Jezebel spirit, which Jezebel is also a principality. But like, you know, it's not like a spirit of Baal, it's not like a spirit of Malik. Those are like principalities. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2:
[151:42] Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[151:43] Am I answering your question?

Speaker 2:
[151:44] No, you're doing great. You're actually lining me up for even more now. How much time did you guys say you had? Because, my Lord, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:
[151:53] And I'm not like a demonologist. I'm not like an expert. This is just stuff that I feel that we do see like a biblical framework for. And I feel like the more that I am in the trenches of spiritual warfare, like the more I see it. And also, again, my background, I've been able to, I can see them a mile away because I know who it is. Like, I know where you're hiding. I know where you come from because I used to be friends with you. You know, like I know exactly what your function is. I know exactly what you're doing here. I know exactly how you got in. And I'm going to tell you exactly how to get out. And yeah, so that's really not claiming expertise.

Speaker 2:
[152:32] No, that's fine. Neither do I. I mean, anybody who listens to my show knows that. I mean, I have zero desire to be the smartest guy in the room.

Speaker 1:
[152:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[152:40] That carries a lot of responsibility and weight that I don't want. So you made a distinguishing factor here where there's principalities and there's different levels to this.

Speaker 1:
[152:54] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[152:54] It's something that, you know, you being, you know, what, was it 21, 22 when you became a Christian?

Speaker 1:
[153:04] 27.

Speaker 2:
[153:05] No, no, what year?

Speaker 1:
[153:06] Oh, the year? It was 2021, late 2021.

Speaker 2:
[153:09] Now everybody knows what your age is.

Speaker 1:
[153:10] Yeah, I'm 31. I don't care. It's fine.

Speaker 2:
[153:14] I'll trick you. So late 21, when it comes to Western Christian faith, I grew up in church. And so, and I went, I did go to Bible college. I always pref, I always say, I didn't graduate, but I did go. And, but there is this level of ignorance when it comes to the idea of levels of principalities and rulers and these forces of evil that people generally just want to say demons. And the more I'm learning, the more I'm understanding that there's level to this game. And it's not as simple as good God, bad Satan, his little minions, and good angels. So was that something for you that was just a natural progression, or did you have to have a revelation for that?

Speaker 1:
[154:14] Oh, it was like a natural progression of like recognizing that sort of thing. And again, like kind of putting the puzzle pieces together biblically, like kingdoms, everything. Most systems on earth are like a reflection of the heavenly systems, you know, like even like the justice system in a lot of ways. It's an order that God has instated in the spirit that is being reflected in the natural. And I know like a lot of those principalities are more than likely like, you know, like the Elohim, like the original Elohim before they rebelled against God, like the Watchers, they rebelled against God. And then they're the ones that made it with the women and then the demon, you know, like the Nephilim was a production of that. So like, you just take all that stuff and you're like, well, and then it's also a kingdom, so yeah. So there's different tiers to the kingdom, just like there isn't any other kingdom. And I don't know, just makes, it just makes sense to me, like biblically.

Speaker 2:
[155:19] Yeah, it totally makes sense to me.

Speaker 1:
[155:21] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[155:21] And it also makes sense on lived experience for people. When you start looking at what people are going through spiritually, the attacks they go through, the different levels of the attacks, different ways it comes on, it makes sense that there would be different levels to the enemy's kingdom. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[155:41] Because we're always like, it's Satan. It's like, okay, Satan can't be everywhere at once. I promise you're not like coming against Satan right now.

Speaker 2:
[155:48] He's fast, but not that fast.

Speaker 1:
[155:49] Yeah, like it's probably not him.

Speaker 2:
[155:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[155:52] Probably just the dumb demon that you're dealing with in your house.

Speaker 2:
[155:54] And I uncovered this with a story on the show that really grabbed me for about a three year period before I released it. I did a lot of looking into it because it had, very rarely when you have a story come on the show, there are strings to pull at and be like, if I pull this string, I bet it will show if he's telling the truth or not. And the more I pulled the strings, I'm like, holy crap, this is real and getting deeper and deeper and deeper. But long story short, Episode 692, Dark Shift, the guy who was telling me the story, he had a friend that he was telling me about his friend. And his friend wound up being recruited and working for an entity. And that entity's name, I tend not to say it a whole lot because I don't know if there's any power in it, but the story, we went through a lot of stuff with that story, and I just don't like it. You know what I mean? Yeah. But the same guy had a brother who went through the same situation as his friend, only he was recruited by Ball. And so I actually sat down and met with him, and he had Ball's sigil tattooed on his back shoulder, and he was going through the thick of it. And when I did that interview, I wasn't the same man I am today, and I wasn't equipped to help him the way I needed to help him. And those are the kind of things when I look back at my show, over 800 episodes, you have those kind of regrets. But I learned through these stories, I started having people reaching out to me, like, I know this is going to sound crazy, but when I was a kid, there was an entity that came to me and recruited me to work for it. And I started realizing that hierarchy of the enemy's kingdom.

Speaker 1:
[157:39] Have you ever read He Came to Set the Captives Free by Rebecca Brown? I think that should be a mandatory Christian book that everyone reads.

Speaker 2:
[157:49] It's interesting you bring that up, because I've read it, I have it. I probably have it somewhere in here. I have several copies. And I think the one after that one, I have as well.

Speaker 1:
[157:58] I didn't read the second.

Speaker 2:
[158:00] But it's interesting you bring that up because there have been people who will say that that story is not 100% true. For me, when I read it, it rang true.

Speaker 1:
[158:14] Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2:
[158:15] The only thing that I could say maybe not was I had a sense that it wasn't Rebecca. It was the woman that she was writing about. I forget the woman's name. But I did get a sense that she had a lot of knowledge and she was very intimate with the enemy. But she made it a point in the book. And you got to remember this book was written back in the 80s.

Speaker 1:
[158:36] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[158:37] She made it a point as she was being the subject of this book to say, but I didn't do that. And she constantly said that, the child sacrifice was happening, but I didn't do that. And I got a sense that if she wasn't as deep as she said she was, I got a sense that she probably was, but she legally was like, but I didn't do that.

Speaker 1:
[159:00] Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 2:
[159:02] If I was in her shoes, I'd be like, I'm not trying to incriminate myself. So last question I have for you. And so you guys, you brought it up towards the beginning. And I don't think you clarified it a whole lot. And I think you might've even said, we'll come back to it. And I think that people might want you to come back to it because there might be that one person that needs to hear it. Your grandfather that came to you and appeared to you, and you talked to your grandmother and your mom, you saw your grandfather. How do you explain that?

Speaker 1:
[159:34] So my great grandfather, actually. So I was literally like three, four years old. It's one of my earliest memories that I have. Me and my mom were just in bed, and I was facing the outside window and she was facing the bedroom door. So I saw a man appear behind her in the window. And I said, mom, there's a man in the window. And she was like, what do you mean there's a man on the window or on the second story? So she like freaks out, thinks someone's like breaking in. It's just me in her home, literally like outside, looking around for a man and no one's there. Whatever, go to bed, just chalks it up to just whatever, me being a little kid. And then a couple months later, we're looking through a photo album and I point to a picture and I said, mom, that's the man in the window. And her and my grandmom just looked at each other, like jaw dropped. And they said, do you know who that is? And I said, no. And they said, that's your great grandfather. That's grandmom's daddy. And he passed away before you were born, like right before you were born. And so they were like really just kind of in shock, but they were also, I don't want to say relieved. It was just more like they had a momentary feeling of comfort or of like, they had just been touched by heaven in a way, knowing that he had come to visit me. And I guess relay the message to them that he was still around, like he was still there, because my great-grandmom was still alive at that point, and she really obviously suffered with the loss of her spouse. So it was also like reassuring to know he's with her, he's with all of us. And again, I just think that that really planted a subconscious seed in me, completely innocently on their end that, oh, okay, well, like, yeah, dead people can talk to us, our ex-loved ones can communicate with us. And-

Speaker 2:
[161:26] Well, how do you, how do you, I want you to explain the way you view that situation now. What was it that-

Speaker 1:
[161:33] That was a familiar spirit. That was a familiar spirit.

Speaker 2:
[161:36] I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Speaker 1:
[161:37] Yeah, yeah, that was a demon, that was not him. That was a demon trying to seduce me and have that inevitably kind of programmed into me that, you know, you can see ghosts, you can talk to ghosts. And obviously, it knew what it was modeling. It looked exactly like the picture. So it knew what it was taking after. It knew that photo was available. I don't know if it knew we would be looking through the album in X amount of days from now, but, you know, it knew it would come up eventually and then I would call it out and that they would know who he is and all these things and that it would be an open door. So that's a familiar spirit. If you're like seeing, if you're seeing quote-unquote ghosts, they are not ghosts, they are demons and they are posing, they are masquerading, shape-shifting, if you will, as what they want to present themselves to you to be in order for you to come into agreement with like the scheme that, you know, the masquerade is under.

Speaker 2:
[162:49] So underneath that story that you shared in your perspective, it just does mirror this whole conversation, which was from the time you're a child, there was this obvious thing that you can follow where the enemy was definitely trying to curve you towards a different direction other than the Lord. And it also shows the power that God possesses, that it doesn't matter what the enemy tries doing, his will be done. And so I find it really encouraging, to hear your whole testimony. And people that heard this, and I don't know how long we've been going, it feels probably like two hours, something like that, right, Jake? Oh, closer to three, okay.

Speaker 1:
[163:35] Whoa.

Speaker 2:
[163:36] So you said 10 hours, I'm giving you guys a break, okay?

Speaker 1:
[163:38] That's my longest, that's our longest interview, I think, that's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[163:41] We can keep going. I'm getting a little warm, but I might need to take a bathroom break, but people that hear you want to connect with you, maybe follow your journey and stuff like that, where can they find you?

Speaker 1:
[163:55] So Heaven and Healing Podcast is my YouTube channel. You can also listen to it on Apple and Spotify, but YouTube is where you get the beautiful studio that my husband designed, so you get to look at that.

Speaker 2:
[164:06] And it's awesome too.

Speaker 1:
[164:07] And then I am on Instagram, Angela Marie Scafidi. Those are really the only two places, like I spend my time on the internet, my husband tries to get me on X and all that. I'm like, I'm there, but I'm not present. So I would just say, Instagram and YouTube, and I am working on my memoir right now. There is no release date. That is just in the works. And it will be all of this, discussed a lot more in depth.

Speaker 2:
[164:33] So, yeah. I really appreciate you joining me.

Speaker 1:
[164:35] Yeah. Thank you for having me. It was great.

Speaker 2:
[164:37] Awesome.