transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:01] Nick, something has been bothering me.
Speaker 2:
[00:04] Just one something?
Speaker 1:
[00:06] I have been reading and hearing everywhere, that Iran blockaded the Strait of Hormuz, and that the United States blockaded the Strait of Hormuz, and that the Strait of Hormuz is shut down, and now the Strait of Hormuz is open again, and gas goes down, and gas goes up, and on, and on, and I'm like, hang on, wait a minute. What is the Strait of Hormuz?
Speaker 2:
[00:28] You know what the Strait of Hormuz is.
Speaker 1:
[00:30] Do I? I know what it looks like, cause it's all over the news. I know where it is, kind of. I know when you mess with it, the gas prices go up, way, way up, and that it has to do with the oil tankers that usually go through it, but do I really know what the Strait of Hormuz is? And while we're here, what's a blockade?
Speaker 2:
[00:52] Okay, you also know what a blockade is.
Speaker 1:
[00:55] What is a blockade?
Speaker 2:
[00:57] It's when you block something.
Speaker 1:
[00:59] You see what I mean? All right, here we go. I'm Hannah McCarthy.
Speaker 2:
[01:03] I'm Nick Capodice.
Speaker 1:
[01:07] This is Civics 101. And today we are one-on-one-ing the Strait of Hormuz and all the stuff that's going on there right now.
Speaker 3:
[01:17] Earlier this morning, Eastern time, the United States and Israel launched a major military attack on Iran, striking dozens of targets across the country, including in the capital of Tehran. You can see the strikes on that.
Speaker 4:
[01:27] What is the objective? What is the end game here? The president of the United States, in that video, saying there will be American casualties.
Speaker 5:
[01:35] Iranian officials say airstrikes hit an elementary school Saturday, killing more than 160 people, mostly children.
Speaker 6:
[01:43] What's going on? They're militarily defeated. And now we're going to open up the Gulf, with or without them. But that'll be open.
Speaker 7:
[01:52] We're going to be, or the Strait, as they call it.
Speaker 6:
[01:55] And I think it's going to go pretty quickly. And if it doesn't, we'll be able to finish it off one way or the other. It's going well.
Speaker 8:
[02:03] Since the US war with Iran began one week ago, filling up has become a lot more expensive. 43 cents a gallon more.
Speaker 7:
[02:12] I was driving here today thinking, all right, what can I give up in order to get gas?
Speaker 9:
[02:18] Because, you know, we are just sailors. We are not trained for war or warlike situations. We just keep the world trade moving. But we really feel that we have become inoculatural damage here.
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Speaker 1:
[04:19] All right, Nick, tell me what you know about the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker 13:
[04:23] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[04:23] So it's a strait, like a waterway between two other bodies of water, and it is how a bunch of gas and oil gets from, I'm assuming, oil refineries and gas plants out to the ocean on boats.
Speaker 1:
[04:37] Sure. Great. It is how the oil and the gas gets out. So it's like this. There's a lot of oil and natural gas in the countries around what we call the Persian Gulf. Those countries are Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, and Iran. The only sea passage from the Persian Gulf to the ocean is through the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker 2:
[05:04] Which for the people in the back is what exactly?
Speaker 1:
[05:07] It's about a hundred and four miles long and only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point between Oman and Iran. It is the funnel that pours about 20 percent of the world's oil and gas, specifically liquefied natural gas, as well as helium and fertilizer and other goods out of the Persian Gulf and into the Gulf of Oman on ships. It is also how a lot of goods get in to the Persian Gulf.
Speaker 2:
[05:32] Who exactly controls the Strait of Hormuz?
Speaker 1:
[05:35] Okay. The Strait of Hormuz is like a two-lane shipping highway. Boats go into the Persian Gulf on the lane closer to Iran and they leave on the lane closer to Oman. I mean, this is how it was happening. But neither country owns or controls the strait in any legal way. If you ask most of the world, it's basically communal property. The United Nations Convention on the Laws of the Sea.
Speaker 2:
[06:01] Maritime law.
Speaker 1:
[06:02] No, this is not maritime law. This is a different thing.
Speaker 10:
[06:05] You're a crook catching smoke.
Speaker 5:
[06:08] Judge, won't you throw the book at the car?
Speaker 1:
[06:13] Yeah, very good. Okay. If you ask the United Nations, according to the Laws of the Sea Treaty, this is an international strait and ships have a right of passage through that strait, aka transit passage. Now, Iran did not ratify that treaty. So if you ask them, they'll say, yeah, it's an international strait, but only for innocent passage.
Speaker 2:
[06:34] Innocent meaning what?
Speaker 1:
[06:35] Yeah, well, very basically, it means a ship is just passing on through. It means no harm, poses no security threat. But who do you think decides what is a security threat in a case like this?
Speaker 2:
[06:47] Iran.
Speaker 1:
[06:48] Yeah. Now, the US disagrees with that level of Iranian control over the strait, even though we did not ratify the UNC treaty either.
Speaker 2:
[06:57] You ever notice how despite the fact that the US was instrumental in founding the UN, we tend not to agree to their rules?
Speaker 1:
[07:06] That is a whole other episode in and of itself. Anyway, we do want other countries to agree to the UN's rules. So Iran may not legally control the strait, but geographically, they have the catbird seat on one of the world's most important choke points.
Speaker 2:
[07:24] Choke points? If that isn't already a band name, Hannah, I will eat my hat.
Speaker 1:
[07:29] When it comes to the sea, a choke point is a place where a lot of trade ships are passing through because they don't really have a good alternative. The Strait of Hormuz is the most efficient way to get things in or out of the countries on the Persian Gulf. A maritime choke point is also a very vulnerable place.
Speaker 2:
[07:50] Right, because you've got a super high concentration of trade goods going through one small space.
Speaker 1:
[07:56] If those trade goods, for example, 20 percent of the world's natural gas and oil cannot get through, shut that highway down and you got global impact. If you started a war with one of the nations that borders the Strait of Hormuz, that could be disruptive.
Speaker 2:
[08:13] Very well could be.
Speaker 14:
[08:14] Tonight, oil fields on fire from Iraq to Tehran, fueling growing concerns over the rising price of oil.
Speaker 13:
[08:20] Oil prices surged again today after President Trump did not provide a clear timeline on the end of the war in Iran or a potential reopening of the Strait of Hormuz during his address last night.
Speaker 15:
[08:31] And we are worried and we're hearing from these worried analysts who say, you know, in a worst case scenario here, if this continues a pace, there's concern of an unprecedented price of $200 a barrel. That is very extreme and that would, again, be unprecedented. But that is what...
Speaker 1:
[08:51] And we're going to get to that after a quick break.
Speaker 2:
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Speaker 2:
[14:22] We're back, we're talking about the Strait of Hormuz and what's going on over there. Actually, real quick, Hannah, did you figure out why it's called the Strait of Hormuz?
Speaker 1:
[14:31] Do you know much about Zoroastrianism?
Speaker 2:
[14:34] I know it's got a lot of fire, but I asked you first.
Speaker 1:
[14:37] The Strait is most likely named for a Zoroastrian god of creation and cosmic order. The Kingdom of Hormuz was founded on what is now the Iranian coast in the 11th century, and it became this vast, emporium kingdom. And why, Nick, do you think that was such a good place to succeed in business?
Speaker 2:
[14:56] I am going to guess that Strait has something to do with it.
Speaker 1:
[15:00] You control that Strait, you basically control a gate between much of the Middle East and East Asia. And guess what? That's still the case today. And we probably would not be doing an episode on it if it weren't for how the US government got very, very involved in that control situation. So here is a brief and broad how we got here because this episode is about the Strait of Hormuz and not about the current war in Iran. The US and Israel coordinated strikes across Iran in late February. President Trump claimed this was to topple the Iranian theocracy. Now, theocracy is what, Nick?
Speaker 2:
[15:38] Well, theocracies are kind of old school. They're deity based. So the top religious leader has ultimate authority. Like when the faith of the seven takes over King's Landing and Game of Thrones, for example.
Speaker 1:
[15:51] Right. Or when the Shia cleric Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the supreme leader of Iran, even though Iran has a democratically elected president. Khamenei was killed in the February strikes.
Speaker 18:
[16:02] We're getting information from Israeli sources that the Ayatollah is dead.
Speaker 15:
[16:08] This is breaking news again.
Speaker 2:
[16:10] And as we all know, that's all it takes to overthrow a government system.
Speaker 1:
[16:14] Yeah, no. Khamenei's son was named the new supreme leader in early March.
Speaker 18:
[16:18] Iran, naming its new supreme leader, Moshaddabah Khamenei, he's the son of the late supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. I want to bring in CNN's Jeremy Duhamel.
Speaker 1:
[16:27] OK, Iran retaliates and their retaliation includes striking ships. Two in the Persian Gulf, one in the Strait.
Speaker 2:
[16:35] US ships?
Speaker 1:
[16:36] No.
Speaker 19:
[16:37] New images near the Strait of Hormuz off Iran, where new attacks are now sending oil prices on another wild ride today. This is a Thai flagged ship, one of at least three vessels that have been struck.
Speaker 2:
[16:51] Wait, why?
Speaker 1:
[16:52] War, what is it good for? So very broadly, Iran has threatened to attack ships that pass through the Strait without permission. The ships in the Gulf were near the Strait, and I don't have the intel on Iran's military decisions, but the perhaps bigger thing going on here is that even the suggestion of danger in and near the Strait of Hormuz means a massive disruption to the global economy.
Speaker 2:
[17:15] So is this the blockade? Can we get to the blockade?
Speaker 1:
[17:18] We can. Iran has not formally declared a blockade, and this is important because blockades are detailed in international law. Blockades are acts of war, and they are regulated.
Speaker 2:
[17:33] You ever think about the fact that we have all these international laws governing how to destroy other countries?
Speaker 1:
[17:39] I think about that a lot. Okay, so for a blockade to be binding, as in legal, as in within the parameters of war law, you first have to have enough resources to do it, like boats or planes, to stop people or things from coming and going.
Speaker 2:
[17:55] Like proof of income when you're applying for a law.
Speaker 1:
[17:59] Sure, why not? Okay, then you have to openly declare the blockade to the country you're blockading.
Speaker 2:
[18:06] Which Iran did not do.
Speaker 1:
[18:07] They did not, but we did.
Speaker 2:
[18:10] We, as in the US?
Speaker 1:
[18:12] Yes, so what happened was this. Iran and the US negotiated a ceasefire, and the US said, okay, if we're going to do the ceasefire, you have to let the ships get through the strait.
Speaker 2:
[18:23] And did Iran do that?
Speaker 1:
[18:24] Few things here. Iran was like, okay, just to be clear, if you want to go through, you still got to get our permission. They also planted sea mines in the strait. So basically the idea here is that the strait has been made pretty dangerous.
Speaker 2:
[18:38] So generally, boats aren't getting through?
Speaker 1:
[18:41] Right. So the US said, okay, fine, you're basically blockading, so we are going to officially blockade you, Iran.
Speaker 3:
[18:49] Trump wrote in part, quote, effective immediately the United States Navy, the finest in the world, will begin the blockade, the process of blockading any and all ships trying to enter or leave the Strait of Hormuz. I've also instructed our Navy to seek and interdict every vessel in international waters that has paid a toll to Iran.
Speaker 20:
[19:08] Our first image is tonight of what the US. Naval blockade of Iran looks like up close.
Speaker 9:
[19:14] You do not comply with this blockade, but you will use force.
Speaker 20:
[19:16] As American warships today broadcast warnings to vessels near the Strait of Hormuz not to dock in.
Speaker 2:
[19:23] All right, I was trying to understand this. Trump said we would blockade the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker 6:
[19:29] Iran was already saying that they were blocking it from traffic. Then now Trump is saying he's going to block it too. We don't really know.
Speaker 1:
[19:37] Which we did not do. That would have been a violation of international law. Remember, a binding, real, legal blockade has rules. These include specifying the geographic area of the blockade, which the US said is the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea, and that it applies to, quote, all ships, regardless of nationality, heading into or from Iranian ports.
Speaker 2:
[19:59] All right, this is something I've always wanted to know. What are we actually doing out there? Like, what does a blockade actually look like? Are there flotillas of US boats just floating out there in front of Iranian ports?
Speaker 1:
[20:11] Definitely not. That would not be safe. This blockade consists of, report say, 16 ships patrolling the waters off the coast of Iran and communicating to other boats that they will be boarded for search and seizure if they try to go to Iran or from Iran. The US hasn't boarded any ships yet. And apparently, it is so crowded out there in those waters that it would be really difficult to. The US chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said, It is like driving a sports car through a supermarket parking lot on a payday weekend with thousands of kids in that parking lot as you attempt to maneuver through there to get to that ship that would attempt to run that blockade.
Speaker 14:
[21:00] Wow.
Speaker 2:
[21:02] First of all, that feels like an oddly specific comparison. And second of all, why is it so crowded in there?
Speaker 1:
[21:08] Because barely anyone was getting through the Strait of Hormuz. They have, for the most part, either been trapped in the Persian Gulf or wading around in the Arabian Sea.
Speaker 2:
[21:18] What is the goal here, Hannah? Nothing in, nothing out? Just, what, starve Iran until it cracks?
Speaker 1:
[21:25] I'm glad you brought that up. That would also be a violation of international law. It would be a war crime, actually. The US cannot stop food or medicine from reaching Iranian ports. What they can do is try to starve the Iranian economy. If Iran can't export oil, they're in trouble. And that's the gamble. Put pressure on Iran and see where diplomatic talks go when they're under the thumb.
Speaker 2:
[21:53] So I'm going to guess Iran is not thrilled.
Speaker 1:
[21:56] That is correct. In fact, they said that the US is essentially violating the terms of the ceasefire by doing this blockade. Amidst all of this, by the way, Iran has changed the shipping route through the strait. Remember how that inbound shipping lane, the one that goes into the Persian Gulf, is the one closest to Iran?
Speaker 2:
[22:15] Yeah, this is like the giant two-lane sea highway.
Speaker 1:
[22:18] So Iran is now saying that ships must come and go via this narrower, more circuitous route that passes through Iran's territorial waters and past some of its islands. The rest of the strait, they say, is currently too treacherous.
Speaker 2:
[22:34] Does that give Iran more control of those ships somehow?
Speaker 1:
[22:38] Well, there were reports of Iran requiring ships to submit full documentation, obtain clearance codes, accept Iranian escort through this passage, and though Iran has partially denied this and partially indicated that this was exactly the plan, charge a toll for safe passage. There have been reports that at least a couple of ships have paid a toll as high as two million in cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2:
[23:03] Wow. So it's a toll booth checkpoint, right, of massive proportions.
Speaker 1:
[23:08] A toll, to be clear, would be illegal. It would be a violation of international law. The number of times I have said that something is a violation of international law would almost be funny if I weren't talking about violations of international law, but the thing is, Nick, war, albeit not a war that the US actually declared, has a way of revealing exactly how imaginary law actually is.
Speaker 2:
[23:38] Because we just made it up.
Speaker 1:
[23:41] We just made it up.
Speaker 19:
[23:44] For really good reasons.
Speaker 1:
[23:46] And when people agree to it, it exists. Or when you get into a high-stakes international conflict and have multiple nations interpreting things, multiple nations disagreeing on things, the law gets thin. As of today, April 20th, when I am speaking these words, Iran, a country which does not legally own or control the Strait of Hormuz, has, quote unquote, opened and, quote unquote, closed it based on what other countries have done. Yesterday, the United States seized an Iranian cargo ship. Our country would say this is within the bounds of our legal blockade. Iran says it's an act of piracy.
Speaker 2:
[24:29] Piracy, eh? It is amazing how quickly the code becomes more like guidelines than actual rules.
Speaker 1:
[24:37] You just had to sneak that in there.
Speaker 2:
[24:40] Oh, come on Hannah, you handed it to me.
Speaker 1:
[24:42] Fair enough. Anyway, for now, we wait. We being the whole world, the people who need the law. And we see whether or not a small group of people can agree on what is real and what isn't. This episode was produced by me, Hannah McCarthy, by our executive producer, Rebecca Lavoie, and with Nick Capodice, my co-host. Marina Hankey is our producer. Dana Cataldo is our brand new digital producer. We are so lucky to have her. Make sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at civics101pod to check out everything Dana has been and will be making in the coming months. She's brilliant. As always, you can get everything Civics 101 has ever made at our website, civics101podcast.org. Civics 101 is a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio.
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