transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:08] Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 584 of the MTGGoldfish Podcast. I'm Seth, probably better known as SaffronOlive, and we have this small crew here this week. Richard couldn't be here. He may be dealing with some baby kind of stuff, but I'm joined by Crim. Good morning, Crim. How's it going today?

Speaker 2:
[00:26] Yo, what's up? I'm excited. We finally got a little bit of Strixhaven in this past week. Uh-huh, and there's been some funny mishaps already, but, like, I'm excited to go into the topics today.

Speaker 1:
[00:37] Ooh, yeah, that's gonna be one of our topics. So we got two big topics today. So we want to talk a little bit about first impressions of Secrets of Strixhaven since it was early access last week. We got to start to mess around with some of the cards, so we're gonna talk about that. And then the other thing that I noticed this week that's been going on that looked really fun is there's been this community-run bracket trying to figure out the best magic card of the past decade. And I believe it's down to, like, the finals or something now, but we're gonna go through the top 32, top 16, and give our picks and see what we come up with, with the best magic card from the past 10 years of magic, which should be pretty fun. But before we get into that, we got some sponsors today. Today's show is brought to you by Card Conduit, the easiest way to sell your magic cards. If you ever get tired of the hassles of bylisting, you can skip them with Card Conduit. You can use their curated service where you send in as many cards as you want with a bylist value of a dollar or more, and pay just a 5% service fee. And if you want to do a bit of work, you can use their sorted service where you list and sort your cards in advance, paying just a 2% fee. Either way, you're going to get a detailed report with the results in a fast payment when your order is processed. And you can even get another 10% off by heading over to cardconduit.com. Card Conduit, it's the easiest way to sell your magic cards. Our show is also brought to you by Heavy Play, Advanced Gaming Equipment. The new Art Master Series Playmat from Jim Pavilek just released featuring angels, demons, gins, dragons, and more. Their unique folding design lets you fit in a standard laptop bag, and equipment lets you attach optional dice boxes or even multiple playmats together. So check out the new Art Master Series Playmats from Jim Pavilek at heavyplay.com.mtggoldfish and use the code MTGGoldfish at checkout to save 10% off. So thank you to our sponsors for supporting the show. And let's talk some magic and let's start crib with Early Access Day in Secrets of Strixhaven. So going in the Early Access Day, I was really hyped for this set, and I came out of Early Access Day feeling like this set's really powerful, although I also feel like a lot of its power is maybe concentrated in Is It, which is kind of funny. But Crim, what is your first impression of Secrets of Strixhaven now that we had to play with it a bit?

Speaker 2:
[02:44] Yeah, I think Is It might be back up.

Speaker 1:
[02:46] It might be.

Speaker 2:
[02:47] Again, even more so. And I'm a little bit concerned about that because I feel like they have no shortage of cards to play with right now. They have everything. So I'm not sure how I feel about that, but also aren't some of the early leak results running around right now, or some test events?

Speaker 1:
[03:09] So I've seen results of the end of last standard. I haven't seen results featuring Secrets of Strixhaven yet, but maybe I've missed them. So it is possible it's out there. I know I did see a thing going on earlier today that was like, all is it next in the top eight, but that was like the last challenge before Secrets of Strixhaven. So if it was that one, that was actually pre-Secrets of Strixhaven.

Speaker 2:
[03:29] So then that tells me that if it's been good, then they may have just gotten more cards, right? So is it now just going to be running everywhere? I feel like it will be, unfortunately. But outside of that, I did really like The Demon. I played with the 4-mana Demon. That was a lot of fun. Tragedy Feaster. I did a very cute combo where I played Madam Null. Do you know Madam Null?

Speaker 1:
[03:59] Oh, that's one that put counters on things, right? When it enters. I know that one from drafting a lot of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Crim. Yes, it's a good limited card.

Speaker 2:
[04:06] That Demon Lady, and then you curve into the Tragedy Feaster. Take seven, and then just give yourself a 14-power unit. It was really fun. It was really fun. Between that and then the green-black Planeswalker played really nice.

Speaker 1:
[04:25] Yeah. Threatening the Ultimate in one turn is very, I don't want to say super unique because there's other Planeswalkers Ultimate quickly. But compared to Planeswalkers we've had recently in Standard, it puts a ton of pressure on you, right? Because that's like, I think, the scariest part of the card, like it's fine removal, fine card draw engine. But I saw a lot of people playing it in decks that have life gain or Dalyan Fell itself has life gain. In the ability to just uptake once and then Ultimate and have like this Sanguine Bond or Exquisite Blood, whichever one it is. I was confused those two on the battlefield forever. Actually seemed very scary. So I found a lot of times I was having to spend my attacks, spend my resources to get it off the battlefield just because I was afraid that that Ultimate was going to happen. So I don't know where it fits. It seems like a very good card to me. It just seems like a card that's like, ah, it's going to have to create its own archetype. And are we going to be able to see like a Lifegain deck or a Golgari mid-range deck or something compete with the top of the meta? That's going to be the interesting question, because I'm really worried about the is it thing. Like, I think this set's really powerful. And throughout Early Access Day, I got to see some cool things working like the repartee. There was some cool aggro decks with repartee that played kind of like bogglesy almost for using your spells to protect and grow and build these big threats. That looked cool. The lifegain synergies looked cool. There was some boros token decks that were going super wide. But really, I felt like every other person I played against was playing some sort of is it deck. There were so many resonating loots. I saw people just doubling their mana, popping off with Colorstorm Stallion I lost to, which was a card that I didn't even expect to see play. But if you got double mana, everything becomes very good. How good do you think loot is, Crim? I came away from Early Access feeling like that could be a really impactful card, but then I worried that I'm overrating Early Access Day. And then once we get to the real meta, maybe it's too slow. What did you think of loot, though?

Speaker 2:
[06:11] I'm a little bit concerned in any meta where if I just have to deploy that on turn four and then do nothing, I'm very worried about that. But as of right now, it seems kind of just OK. As weird as that sounds, it seems just OK. Right? Because if I tap out, I pay four, it does nothing. I have to wait a full turn cycle before my opponent just absolutely wrecks me. We talk about it all the time. Turn four is an important set up or a key turn in most games. So fully tapping out and not affecting the board is kind of brutal. Whereas even the four mana planeswalker coming down, it still removes something off the board. It does something right when it hits. This kind of does nothing and requires me to also load my deck up with a bunch of giant mana stuff to really take advantage of it. So it seems like just an OK card, kind of greedy. You're probably making your deck worse by including it, as I think about it, even more.

Speaker 1:
[07:12] Yeah, I could see that. Like, it does have a bit of the paint or monocom problem, right? Where you're paying four mana and not getting the value right away. But I also saw, like, a lot of people, and maybe this is just Early Access Day, where if you play it and untap with it, and it's got pretty good early game removals, well, hopefully, like, you spend your first two or three turns, like, kind of controlling the board, and then you drop this on a relatively empty board. And then people just untap and, like, just sky revelation you. Or the new, the card that was, I think, was very impressive. And I think this might be one of the most played cards from the set, is Traumatic Critique, the new, like, card draw slash burn spell.

Speaker 2:
[07:45] We talked about that.

Speaker 1:
[07:46] We talked about that as one of our cards last week when we were talking about the best cards in the set. But I felt like that actually kind of backed up the hype. I saw a lot of decks playing that and, like, casting it for two mana just to draw, but then also using it for removal. Works really well with the resonating loot as well. Anything else to go? Oh, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[08:03] I think that card is just good on its own and you don't need the loot, right? My concern is that the loot is, if you lean into it, right, what are you loading your deck up with, right? Clunky spells. Do you really want that? Maybe Jeskai Control could get away with it, but I really don't know how I feel about the loot. That feels way more fun to play with. Definitely like a for funsies card. But who knows?

Speaker 1:
[08:29] Yeah, yeah, I guess we'll see. We'll see. It looked good to me on Early Access Day, but I always try to avoid reading too much in Early Access Day. What about some of the hype mythic cycles that we're like, are these just commander cards like the Emeritus is? What do you think of the prepare mechanic? Any impressions of that so far?

Speaker 2:
[08:49] Whatever the sign in blood one is.

Speaker 1:
[08:53] Yes, a Skiing Silver Tongue, I want to say something like that.

Speaker 2:
[08:57] That card played very well. That card was just super solid, and it already doesn't need much to go off. And when you have Hex to gain some life, you can get prepared pretty easily, like as in requiring Hex, that is. And then yeah, I felt like that may have been one of my favorite cards to have played with. The White Emeritus played nicely. I really like that one. I think the red one seems to be very hard to get prepared. But then again, I wasn't trying to play in a blue-red is it show. The Blue Emeritus was pretty cute, but not good. You know what I mean? In a real world where I cast it, I'm just like, I'd rather just quantum Riddler. I'd just rather quantum Riddler.

Speaker 1:
[09:45] That's the challenge. When is that card actually going to be better than Riddler? That's what I'm really not sure about. I found it to be good, but is it better than Riddler? That was always a question I was asking myself when I play. I was like, should I just be playing Riddler here? A decent amount of the time, probably that's the correct answer. One that actually impressed me that I wasn't actually expecting to look good. I didn't play with it much, but I played against it a few times. It looked kind of impressive. It was actually the green one with the regrowth on it.

Speaker 2:
[10:11] I saw that too.

Speaker 1:
[10:12] Just being able to get back your Badger Moles, your removal or whatever. Then actually, if the game goes long, the prepare every turn can actually be kind of brutal. It doesn't happen that often, but I had a game where I almost got locked by it because I could just get back the removal spell every turn and I didn't have interaction for it. But I think the green emeritus might actually be better than it's getting credit for. What do you think of that one, Crim? Does it actually have a shot? It's like one of the cheaper ones in Standard.

Speaker 2:
[10:38] So I played against it as well, and my concern is that it does have to attack. And my concern about that is that I had, I don't know if it's because the matchup I played, I just had the demon sit there and block it. Right? Like the demon, we were in this weird grindy matchup. It was like a Golgari mid-range deck versus my demon deck, right? That card, it had to swing to get value every time, so my opponent just left it back. My problem here is like if you use the prepared thing, like once it's unprepared, it's hard to get it back if the body across the board is way too big, and it just kind of sits there. It just sits there and it does nothing. So I didn't like the green emeritus that much, it seemed fine. It was like a cute card to have, but like again, early access week, I'm not sure. Maybe all of these pieces could be better in other decks, but initially, the first few thoughts I had was that that one, the red one, the blue one are all kind of just, yeah. The black one seemed okay. The white one definitely still seemed the best. I really like the white one.

Speaker 1:
[11:52] Yeah, I think the white one's really good. I didn't see it as much as I was thinking I might, but it did look really good when it did show up. What do you think about Fix What's Broken? I saw this combo deck running around, and I'm curious. I don't know if you ran into the Fix What's Broken. That's the reanimate everything of a mana value one, and there was an OOPSOL V's deck where you get Terror of the Peaks, so you can use Black Overlord, and then essentially just Fix What's Broken and you win right away. It looked really cool, but I found myself wondering, well, one, is this an early access day thing? Because it's pretty easy to face roll early access day with graveyard decks because a lot of people are not playing main deck graveyard hate, and it's best to one. My other question was, is doing that better than just Superior Spider-Man on Bringer? Like, did we just create a lesser version of a deck that already exists to some extent? As far as competitive play is concerned, do you think there's a chance we actually get to, like, fix what's broken, reanimate or combo deck in standard?

Speaker 2:
[12:46] Exactly. Just what you brought up there is the main issue I have with it, as well as that, is this better than Superior Spider-Man? The answer is no. I think Superior Spider-Man is way more versatile, way more powerful of a deck.

Speaker 1:
[12:57] And I mean, it's cute.

Speaker 2:
[12:59] It's funny. I like it for early access stuff like you had mentioned, but otherwise, why would I play this over Superior?

Speaker 1:
[13:07] It's so tough because Formidable Speaker is just so good in that deck of letting you find your reanimation. And if you're trying to do it with a spell, you lose that consistency. So it's hard for me to see how a spell version is going to be out, the Superior Spider-Man version. Although it is kind of cool.

Speaker 2:
[13:21] Because you have Formidable, Overlord, right?

Speaker 1:
[13:23] Like all of those can grab a permanent. And getting back a bringer with a couple other things is pretty much just as game ending. Most of the time, I think, is reanimating one to five drops. So is there...

Speaker 2:
[13:36] There is one other thing I was playing with, and I don't know if you ran into it.

Speaker 1:
[13:41] Pox Plague. I did not run into Pox Plague, but I know you were playing. How did it feel, Crim? That's a card I tried to build around. And then I kind of gave up and was like, I haven't figured this one out yet. Come back to it. How did it feel for you?

Speaker 2:
[13:56] I mean, if you just play Mono Black, right? And then you have Bloodletter of Aklazots, all this stuff, right? Rumble. Funny enough, I got paired against somebody who was doing the same game plan, but they also had Silverquill. Oh, I thought of that. So they got to Casualty Me. That was pretty sweet. But you build the shell of Unstoppable Slasher. You have Unholy Annex if you need. I don't know. Monoblock has a lot of good cards there. And Pox Plague just felt like a really cute top end that was super efficient. And I really liked it. I want to try to get it a real standard because it does do some serious work if you get to get to like five mana. My concern is that I had two colorless lands, and I swear, I drew those two colorless lands more often than I did. I don't even know how, right? So that's probably on me.

Speaker 1:
[14:55] That is probably a solvable problem, I guess. If you have to, you could probably cut the colorless lands. Yeah, I'm excited to try that card. Did it feel like you were wrecking yourself too much with it? Or because it is symmetrical. Or did you have to build around it a ton? Or do you think you can just jam it in a deck and like find the time to cast it to get the most value out of it?

Speaker 2:
[15:11] It is one of those things where I think I could just cast it on, unless I'm on an empty board, right? Like stuff like that. But I found that most times I just cast it on five. Whenever I could cast it, I would just cast it.

Speaker 1:
[15:23] Fire it off.

Speaker 2:
[15:24] I really liked it. And plus Unstoppable Slasher just comes back. You still have a lot of the recursive threats, like the two drop with a warp that can come back with haste, you have blood gas, you have so many things. Timeline Callers is the one I'm thinking of. You have so many cards that are just running around right now that you can just bring back that I had a lot of fun with it. So I want to see what it looks like in a real meta and then play with it a lot more because it did just win games out of nowhere. It was just too brutal. And if you lose half your life and then all of a sudden there's someone in Holy Annex with a demon there and you're already kind of messed up on resources, it gets kind of brutal.

Speaker 1:
[16:07] Yeah, I can imagine it getting super brutal. I want to ask you, speaking of winning out of nowhere, one more combo deck I wanted to bring up. And this one, I don't know, probably won't be a real thing, but I did see several people trying it on Early Access. Molten Core Maestro combos. Did you run into anyone trying to pop off with the two drop and you just try to chain together spells and suddenly it starts making mana and then you win with a big X spell or I saw someone trying to win with a fling-style effect once it got big enough. Is there any way that we actually have a combo deck to build around this in real standard, Crim? Or is that another Early Access Day kind of combo deck?

Speaker 2:
[16:42] Okay, I do think Molten Core, whatever the thing is, I think that has legs. I think that card is pretty solid. I don't know what the deck is, but the combo decks I saw felt very soft, easy to break up.

Speaker 1:
[16:55] Very fragile, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[16:57] Very, very, very easy to dismantle the game plan. So personally, if there is a deck, I am curious to see what it is because I do think that Molten Core card is good, but I don't think I've liked the shells that I run into. I know I myself didn't try to build it. I played against it. So all my decks are heavy interaction anyways.

Speaker 1:
[17:18] Well, they're never going to beat a Crim deck. Yeah, and you'd be the nightmare matchup for Molten Core Maestro, I think, Crim, for sure. Yeah, I think that card might be good even fairly. Like people are trying to mostly combo with it, but it might be good enough to play in some sort of fair. Like it's not bad on its own. And once it gets going, it can really pop off. So I don't know if we'll see a full-on combo build with it in like real best of three standard or like on the ladder in best of one even. But I think it's worth keeping in mind because when it pops off, it actually can do some things. Last question, Crim, is there anything you found that just flopped for you? Is there anything you were disappointed in where you're like, oh, okay, this card was just not as good as I was expecting?

Speaker 2:
[17:56] I think somehow I feel like the Blue Emeritus was worse. Like, I'm really low on the Blue Emeritus right now. It kind of bums me out. Because I wanted to play with some kind of ancestral vision, right? And I didn't really like it that much. I thought that card was kind of wack. I am starting to wonder if those, the mythic sorceries, if they're meant for just commander. Yeah. Have you tried, did you try any of them? Yes.

Speaker 1:
[18:29] I did try. I tried, okay. I tried several of them. I had a deck build around the blue one that makes token caps, these things. I had one build around the red one that can put things into play. I thought the red one might have a chance. In some sort of like very specific deck, like there was this random encounter deck that we played a lot last year and showed up a little bit on the ladder.

Speaker 2:
[18:48] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[18:48] It's very good in an archetype like that, where you're just full of these really expensive things. But overall, I came away feeling like that cycle was very much designed for commander and not for standard. Like, I'm not expecting that we see a big impact. They're like just very expensive and the repeatable value is nice. But games just are so quick a lot of the time that if the game's ending within a turn or two, you don't get that much repeatable value out of it. So I think I could imagine a world where there's some sort of weird deck that uses the red one. The rest of them though, I'm kind of thinking they're just commander only cards. But what was your impression?

Speaker 2:
[19:22] I felt like they were definitely commander only cards. I didn't get any value out of those cards. I didn't feel like it mattered. I also died before anything happened. At the cost of what you're paying to cast these spells and at the point in the game, which you will be, I feel like they don't do enough.

Speaker 1:
[19:43] Yeah, that's definitely true. And not doing enough, I think my most disappointing card is probably the Land Destruction dude. The Land Destruction dude, it is cool and fun to build around, but it is five mana, right, for Maelstrom Artisan, where you need three for the creature and then you need two more. And I saw, like, they were cool.

Speaker 2:
[19:59] Also non-basic.

Speaker 1:
[20:00] Non-basic, which is kind of rough in some matchups. But I saw people, like, building around. I even got locked by it one time, which was kind of funny, with the land that can re-prepare. And I just had the wrong draw, and they got me with it. But then I also had a lot of games. I was playing this, like, rampy kind of Badger Mill Cub mana dork deck, and they were, like, playing their Maelstrom Artisan. I'm like, dude, I have, like, nine mana sources. Like, sure, spend your mana to blow up one of my lands, please. By all means, if you're spending your time on that, like, I'm gonna win this game. So I feel like it might be a little slow. I was very hyped just because we don't really get land destruction in standard. So even with the restriction, I was like, oh, this might be cool. But is there any chance, Crim, we actually play that card? Or is it just, like, a little, a little slow?

Speaker 2:
[20:39] That card is for memes, right? Like, that card is peak memes, right? I don't think anybody is gonna, like, actually play that. Maybe somebody that is very, very much so, like, trying to meme, and it's out of the sideboard. Sure, I can see that as well. But there's actually a few more cards that I thought were pretty, pretty sweet. I just remembered. Did you ever try Wild Growth Archaic?

Speaker 1:
[21:01] Wild Growth Archaic? Wait, I'm trying to remember what one that is.

Speaker 2:
[21:05] It's the hybrid, like, two or a green mana.

Speaker 1:
[21:08] Oh, the counter one. No, I haven't. I haven't tried that one. Did it feel good?

Speaker 2:
[21:12] It felt pretty sweet. I kind of liked it, right? Because for those that don't know, it's Trample Reach 00 Converge. It enters with a 1-1 counter in it for each color of mana spent to cast it. Whenever you cast a creature spell, that creature enters with X additional 1-1 counters on it, where X is the number of colors spent to cast it. I felt like this card, I just played green and red, and it was good. Like an A2 color deck. It felt very strong.

Speaker 1:
[21:42] Were you like a counters deck with a bunch of counters synergies or not really? Just like green-red stuff, basically.

Speaker 2:
[21:46] Green-red, good stuff, right? And I just wanted to play a fair, like it was the land destruction deck that I played. And it was nice to just go, like play that curve into just the 3-2 land destruction guy with haste, but he would immediately get buffed, right? So I kind of really liked the card. It just makes everything I play super duper strong. So it was a kind of just a generically powerful card. And I'm kind of curious to see what it plays like in a normal standard format, but it was pretty sweet.

Speaker 1:
[22:19] I mean, it's only technically 2 mana, right? And it's the cheapest play. So I feel like it's cheap enough that maybe it could actually be good. Yeah, I didn't see that one. I didn't play with that one, but I do think it's worth exploring more.

Speaker 2:
[22:32] Did you see withering curse at all?

Speaker 1:
[22:34] The sweeper. So I played with it a little bit in my life game deck, and I felt like it felt good, but I didn't see many other people playing it. What was your experience?

Speaker 2:
[22:44] Card is gas. I think that card is gas.

Speaker 1:
[22:46] That's very good.

Speaker 2:
[22:47] It's so easy to gain that life and just get a hard sweeper whenever you need it. I really like that card. So that was another fun one.

Speaker 1:
[22:56] And you know what surprised me, Crim? In this one, we trashed, well, Richard mostly and he's not here today to defend himself, but Rouse Eric is not as bad as maybe we made it sound at the last podcast. I'm not saying it's good or going to be a staple.

Speaker 2:
[23:10] I said it was decent.

Speaker 1:
[23:12] Okay, so maybe Crim was actually the correct one in the podcast. I saw a lot of people playing it and it felt okay. I was thinking it was going to be actively unplayable. I don't think it's great or anything, but it actually seemed fine that people would play it, reanimate something, surveil a little bit. Okay, they were getting value out of it. I think the reanimation mode is actually better than it looks, especially since standard is all about these efficient threats. So most creatures actually have something decent to reanimate that's three or less mana. And then it sticks around and generates a little bit of extra value. So I went from thinking that card was like stone unplayable to like mid, but that's way better than I was expecting Raoul to look, honestly.

Speaker 2:
[23:51] I think I played against a version of Raoul using the green emeritus. And so there's just this value loop for days, right?

Speaker 1:
[23:59] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[24:00] But yeah, it was just fine. I don't think it's as bad as we made it sound earlier on, but it did play better than I thought it would. So, yeah, that one's a sweet one. Plus, I'm just happy at any chance that you get to play a Raoul. Although, again, early access. So we'll see what it plays like in an actual meta. For right now, it just seems okay. But I guess another card I am curious about, because I don't think we'll be able to truly see how good it is until the regular meta is erode.

Speaker 1:
[24:33] Yes, that was a card that a lot of people were playing. And I think partly because it's a new card and it's hyped and it looks like Path of Exile. I'm still basically where I was at on it before, where I think erode is playable, but I think people are just going to play it way too much in the short term. And it should be part of your removal package rather than your primary removal spell. But I think it's fine. Like the efficiency is nice. And I do think that like I did have some tags for targeting my own stuff as a rampant growth was like kind of relevant, but I don't know. What did you think, Crim? Did it change your opinion on it seeing in an early access day?

Speaker 2:
[25:06] I saw some people firing it off early, which accelerated me by a lot, which helped me win the game pretty much. And I think that's going to touch up on what you kind of just brought up there. But yeah, like the card just seemed okay. I'm not sure how I feel about this card moving into standard. We'll have to play with it a lot more though, because early access, all of that. So we'll see. Right now, my official, my initial reaction is just, it's fine, it may be, it's better than I thought it was, but I think it's still not great.

Speaker 1:
[25:41] Someone brought this up, and I'm curious what you think of this, in regards to Road, where they were like, if wizards printed a one-mana instant that just said, sacrifice a creature, tutor out a basic land tapped, people would play it all the time. Do you think that's true? Like an innocent blood at instant speed? No, just like a rampant growth. Think of it like a green card, like a rampant growth that requires you to sack a creature but for one mana. Like, do you think we just think of this in the wrong way? Because when they explained it like that, I was like, you know what? If there was like a one green mana instant that was just sack a creature to ramp, I think that card would actually see play. Like, I think it would actually see play. And that's essentially what a road is, but I think of it as removal, so then I'm kind of down on it. So maybe it's just a matter of evaluating it. Maybe Tomer has been right all the time with this like, oh, rampant my own creatures. Maybe he was actually right.

Speaker 2:
[26:28] But it's more than that, because it's discard one, sack a creature, ramp.

Speaker 1:
[26:32] That is true. So you're gonna get two cards for one card. Exactly. Yeah. So I guess it is true.

Speaker 2:
[26:38] I don't think I'm digging that. I don't know if I feel that yet. I will say, though, dissection practice, I tried that, that uncommon. Yeah, okay, it's bad. It's probably a limited card.

Speaker 1:
[26:47] A little, okay, a little too much.

Speaker 2:
[26:49] It's a limited card. That card is very bad.

Speaker 1:
[26:52] Yeah, I guess that's not a surprise. Well, the set does have some good uncomments. One I did not see much, and I didn't change my opinion on it was flow state, because that's still like the $9 uncommon, getting lots of hype. I saw some people playing it. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't work. It was always sorcery speed. Like, it didn't win me over. It didn't win me over, seeing people play it early access. I still think, like, there's probably some deck that can use it, but I'm still not seeing the hype on that one the way everyone else is.

Speaker 2:
[27:20] Again, Spellamentals or whatever, like, I think it has that exact and very specific home, but I don't know if I'm just generically blasting this through, like, into any of my decks here. So that was very interesting, because I think people are still, like, hyping up FlowState, and I'm seeing people talk about it. I'm just like, I don't see what I think everyone sees.

Speaker 1:
[27:42] So it keeps getting more expensive, too. It's like, it keeps going up in price. I'm amazed, like, at how hype people are. $8.35 now, it's up to you. Insane, insane.

Speaker 2:
[27:51] I can't tell if it's just because everything good is already in Izzet. So, like, it just feels like another average card that Izzet is just, as a shell, makes it look better than it actually is.

Speaker 1:
[28:03] So I will say Joe, who writes, like, This Week in Legacy and Vintage 101, on the website, reached out and was like, yeah, I think it's actually, like, there are decks that I think it's going to be good in, in, like, Legacy or Vintage. So maybe there's some, maybe there's actually some, some backup there where it's going to see playing Eternal Formats that I'm just missing. But as far as standards concerned, I'm still kind of like, eh.

Speaker 2:
[28:24] Yeah, as far as standards, I have, I do not see the appeal except for the specific home. Oh, and I, the Harmonized Trio card, the brainstorm creature, thought that was kind of whack.

Speaker 1:
[28:36] Was it, was it whack? Did you build merfolk or did you play in something else? Merfolk, yeah. So not enough to bring the fish back, you don't think?

Speaker 2:
[28:43] Yeah, like it's cute when you get to do the thing, right? You untap it, you get to prepare it again, and it's like sweet when you do that. But like, I did all of that for a brainstorm and it's not like a win con, so.

Speaker 1:
[28:55] And there's not like that much synergy, I don't think. I guess you have a Deeproot Pilgrimage, which wants you to trap your merfolk, but like, merfolk aren't really a brainstormy kind of tribe, really. Like, it's not like they can benefit from the spell slinging. They don't have a ton of ways to like, shuffle your library to get full value out of it. So yeah, I don't know. It'd be cool if we got a merfolk deck eventually, but maybe we need a few more sets still. Actually, we're getting, what, Nimbus or whatever in the next set. Maybe that brings merfolk, or whatever in the Marvel set that they spoiled early. Yeah, Nimbus. Yeah, Nimbus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[29:28] I love Nimbus, my guy.

Speaker 1:
[29:31] But he's a good merfolk, so maybe we get some merfolk sets.

Speaker 2:
[29:33] Yeah, he kind of turns merfolk into like, spell slinging, right, merfolk?

Speaker 1:
[29:38] And make the brainstorm good because you get a token off of it. So maybe, maybe, maybe that's where it is.

Speaker 2:
[29:42] Right now, it's just in the early stages of building up merfolk and it's just, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[29:47] All right. So over the last few days, the community has been doing this bracket to try to figure out the best magic card from the past decade. So this is none of the super old stuff, none of the 90s or early 2000s, just the last 10 years. And this has been going on for a while now. They did like some big pool to get the first list of cards, and they've been bracketing it. My understanding is they're doing the finals today, but I want to go back in time a little bit to maybe like the top 16. And I just want to go through this bracket and see what we ended up with. So we're gonna work off of this existing bracket that has already been going around on social media. And the rules of this, Crim, are you can use any criteria you want to, any formats you want to, you decide however you want. So it's just which of these cards is the better of the two cards essentially, from whatever definition you want to use. So our first matchup, and I will post this bracket in the description, so if you want to play along yourself, feel free. But our first matchup, we're just gonna do the top 16 because it would be too much to do more. First matchup, Crim, Emery Lurker of the Lock, the three mana one, two that cost less for artifacts when it enters your mill four, then you tap it to cast an artifact from your graveyard this turn, versus Underworld Breach. Which of the...

Speaker 2:
[31:03] Emery Lurker of the Lock, the Affinity...

Speaker 1:
[31:07] Affinity thing versus Underworld Breach. This is our first matchup.

Speaker 2:
[31:12] That's kind of sick. That's a sweet matchup. They kind of serve as almost the same thing in the deck that they're supposed to go in. I think Underworld Breach, right? This is just all around... Okay, I guess if we're talking about balance, then I'm going to choose Emery because Emery is more balanced than the Underworld Breach.

Speaker 1:
[31:36] It is a healthier card, yes.

Speaker 2:
[31:37] Yes, so I'll put a point in that department for Emery, but otherwise, as a overall card, I think Underworld Breach is just busted, right? It's busted in half. It's good at everything it does. It is the win condition. It gets you the win condition. I think Emery is nice, but Emery is capped by tapping it, right? Now, of course, there's not like a way... There's tons of ways to un-tap it, you know, do it all over the place, but it feels like it takes a lot more pieces to get that going rather than like, you know, Underworld Breach, where all I have to do is just throw some cards into my yard, which I was going to do anyways.

Speaker 1:
[32:10] It's just so explosive. Like, Emery is a very good guard. I still see Emery in like the Artifact X and like Timeless and in Historic, like Affinity-styled X people play it. So it definitely has uses. It is a good card, but Underworld Breach, I think there's an argument this actually might be one of the literal most broken cards of the past decade. Like, it's been banned in a lot of places. It's just so easy to win the game with Underworld Breach. So Emery is good, but I think Underworld Breach is kind of clearly the winner here. Yeah, we're agreeing with the community on this one, Crim, because the top 16 is already done because they're to the finals. The community went with Underworld Breach 79 percent to 20 percent. So pretty easy. Yeah, pretty easy victory.

Speaker 2:
[32:50] Yeah, okay. That's an easy one. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[32:52] Our next top 16 matchup, this is another interesting one, Urza Lord High Artificer, the 4-mana 1-4 that makes the cons corrupt and you tab your artifacts for mana.

Speaker 2:
[33:00] Oh, we know Urza.

Speaker 1:
[33:02] Up against Oko Thief of Crowns. Oh, maybe the most broken planeswalker of a crime. I know you love Seth. That was your favorite era of standard.

Speaker 2:
[33:11] Oko single-handedly almost made me quit magic. Like, oh my God. Okay. Yeah, you know what? I think this is going to be pretty easy for me. I don't know what the community is going for on this one, but Oko, right? Like Oko and especially turn two Oko was like the thing that you saw more often than you probably should. Like that car just literally warped the entire game for a whole year.

Speaker 1:
[33:36] All the way back to Vintage. The Vintage Championship that year got won by Oko, Elking, Black Lotus. And that's how the tournament ended. Like it absolutely destroyed magic. Ours is very good. It's very good. It's just not on the Oko level. And I think it's also hard when I'm thinking about the literal most broken cards or best cards of the past decade. I think it's going to be hard for a Modern Horizons only card to be a card that went through Standard. Because like Urza, yeah, if they put it through Standard, I bet I'd hate it almost as much as Oko. But since it was only in Modern, like I didn't have to deal with it in Standard. When Oko, it destroyed Standard too. So I think it's easy. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[34:11] I don't even think it'd be good in Standard.

Speaker 1:
[34:13] You don't think so?

Speaker 2:
[34:15] In comparison to Oko?

Speaker 1:
[34:16] Yeah, I guess in comparison to Oko, that is true.

Speaker 2:
[34:19] Like Oko is so much better on every level in every format, right? Like I remember playing Oko in Modern, right? I was like, okay, I'm going to play Saltai Fairies. And you know what? It made fairies look good, right?

Speaker 1:
[34:38] I remember people, they were splashing friggin Oko in Burn. Monorid Burn, they were double splashing to play Oko in Burn in Modern. And that's what I knew, that things were off the rails with this card. And we agree with the Community Crim, 67% with Oko against 33% for Ursa. So our next matchup, oh, Modern Horizons matchup, as per Sentinel, the one drop little artifact creature that draws some cards, good and commander, against Ursa's saga itself. The land, not the set, the land slash, slash enchantment, slash saga.

Speaker 2:
[35:15] I think I'm going with Ursa's saga on this one. Right, because Sentinel, Sentinel's just fine.

Speaker 1:
[35:24] Sentinel's already kind of faded for me. I feel like Sentinel when it first came out was like very, very good and I saw it everywhere. But I feel like it's seen less and less play over the last couple of years. It's still fine. I still play in Commander, but I don't really see it in Modern anymore. I rarely see it in like Historic or Timeless. Ursa's saga though was still this insane. Was it even good in Modern? It was like okay when it first came out. I saw play when it first came out in like Hammer time. It was really good because you put the hammer on it and stuff. So there were decks where it was good when it first came out, but nothing to the extent of Ursa's saga.

Speaker 2:
[35:53] Yeah, like I feel like, sure, maybe it was fine when it came out, but it's far from that now. And any reason why people would love Esper... Actually, no, even in Commander, Ursa's saga is better. Right? Like, I think Ursa's saga is just better in every format, just mostly because the tutoring, the making... It gives you some win conditions. It gets you whatever you need it to get. And then in Commander, it gets you a soul ring. So yeah, I just think that Ursa's saga is better in every way.

Speaker 1:
[36:25] And the community agree with this one. 79% went Ursa's saga, so another blowout. Just out of here, S% no. This next one was way closer than I would have thought, because I think this matchup is pretty obvious, but the community actually made it very close. Bolas's Citadel, the six-man artifact, against Urro Titan of Nature's Wrath. And I feel like I'm surprised this was close, because for me, I think Urro was just... Well, the community vote was close. The community vote was actually very close on this one.

Speaker 2:
[36:54] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, but like how?

Speaker 1:
[36:56] I see Urro was just clear winner, right? Yes. To me, Bolas's Citadel is a fun Commander card. I made some fun brews around it. I like it. But Urro was like a dominating standard card, a dominating modern card. And still, we were just talking about it on the Commander Clash podcast. Now that it's like three bucks, it's like kind of one of these cards that's way cheaper now and good to put in your decks in Commander. I don't even see any comparison. I would have just like slam dunk Urro. But what do you think, Crim?

Speaker 2:
[37:22] No, yeah, it's easily Urro here. But now, just like in the same way you could say, oh, maybe because a lot of people are thinking Commander, maybe we also are thinking too much of Urro in Standard.

Speaker 1:
[37:36] That could be. Right? Because he was banned. Well, I don't even know if it's better, but it's more played in Commander. It's a game changer. It's more well known in Commander. I think Urro was actually very good in Commander, too, in Simic Dex. But if people think of it as a Commander card, Citadel is an insane Commander card. It's so good in Commander. So maybe that's where it's coming from, is the community's got a lot of Commander players. But Urro did sneak through, but only 56% of them, though. So it was actually the closest matchup that we went through so far. Yeah, but it did. It did sneak through.

Speaker 2:
[38:07] Urro's better in Standard. Urro was better in Modern. Right? Like Urro is just a solid card that kind of was just phenomenal in 60 card, right?

Speaker 1:
[38:18] So far, we have agreed with the community through this whole side of the bracket. So we got to move to this side. And Crim, I want to see what you say to this one, because this is one of the funniest. And even a closer, I think this is the closest community vote until you're around.

Speaker 2:
[38:29] OK.

Speaker 1:
[38:30] I want to see what you say with this one. She older the apocalypse versus to Fairy Time Raffler, Three Fairy.

Speaker 2:
[38:38] That's easy.

Speaker 1:
[38:38] Three Fairy versus She Oldred. Oh, that's so easy for you, Crim. Is it just Three Fairy?

Speaker 2:
[38:42] It's not even a debate.

Speaker 1:
[38:43] No.

Speaker 2:
[38:44] Which one comes down a turn earlier here? Which one just goes, very nice. I'm going to make you redeploy your She Oldred.

Speaker 1:
[38:53] That is true. You can't just bounce the She Oldred, and they have to replay it for four mana.

Speaker 2:
[38:57] Which one literally broke the game? Like, it just straight up removed a part of the game.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] I hate Teferi. Teferi is, if they were doing my least favorite designs for the past decade, this would be on my list, but I think it is the better card. Like, this card's absolutely insane. Like, I consider it a mistake card, honestly. It got banned in standard, it's been very good in other formats. It is one of the cards, it's the card that made me hate Oathbreaker when they started doing that format, thanks to you, Crim, with your Teferi silence deck and never played that format again. You killed it for me with one game. That is the power of Teferi time raveler.

Speaker 2:
[39:33] Teferi silence is a funny and very cute lock, I'll admit.

Speaker 1:
[39:37] It wasn't even good, but it got me.

Speaker 2:
[39:39] Yeah, no, it's not good. But I think Teferi just shuts... Just when you think about the game, right? It is much more doable to answer a 4 or 5 that just only burns you on draw, which is good, it's a good card, don't get me wrong, and it gains you life as well. But even at its best, I always viewed SheAuldred as this card that was just solid. I know the world was asking for it to get banned, I didn't think it needed to be, I'm glad it didn't.

Speaker 1:
[40:08] Which Teferi... I think it would be good in standard today, Crim, like with how fast it is, like do you think... Was that a product of its, like our mid-range? Did it create the mid-range standard, or like was it just very good because we were in a mid-range format? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[40:20] I think it itself probably... No, you know what? Mid-range would have been fine without it.

Speaker 1:
[40:28] Yeah. It still would have been very good. You still have Fable and like all the other pieces that were so good at the time.

Speaker 2:
[40:33] Yeah, and like most of the decks moved it into the sideboard eventually, right? Like it just became a one or two of here and there. So it just showed that the mid-range deck worked without it. Threeferi, though, just straight up removed a whole part of the game for a lot of decks and made it so that you couldn't do anything. And I personally liked it. I even liked it when I got paired against it because it would just shut my decks down.

Speaker 1:
[40:59] But it meant that, like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[41:02] I there are many a games where it was just two, threeferi staring at each other than two players who had no cards in hand that actually did anything like, oh, that's great. I'm glad you have all of this instant speed stuff. But yeah, I think threeferi by a landslide for me.

Speaker 1:
[41:18] So we are on the same side as the community. I also go with teferi. Community, though, 51% to 49%. It was super close. I'm shocked that it was even that close, because I think teferi is just way ahead.

Speaker 2:
[41:31] This tells me that maybe people haven't played against it enough. Like in 1v1.

Speaker 1:
[41:37] And I guess teferi is way older. So if you only started playing the last couple years, maybe you experienced the older it, but not teferi. I think it was like 2019, like 7 years or something. We're old. We're old, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[41:49] I'm withering away as you say it.

Speaker 1:
[41:54] Our next match up, Fable the Mirror Breaker versus Fatal Push.

Speaker 2:
[42:01] Somewhere right now, Richard is twitching. He's just like, oh.

Speaker 1:
[42:04] He is, he is. The monkey polly is curly.

Speaker 2:
[42:09] I mean, this should be easy.

Speaker 1:
[42:12] In what direction?

Speaker 2:
[42:13] It should easily be Fatal Push. I know that Fatal Push itself doesn't like scream flashy or cool, but it kind of redefined and reinvented the way removal and like threats and the landscape of magic looked, right?

Speaker 1:
[42:29] Everything, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[42:31] Like, it single handedly changed so much stuff in magic. So I just don't see a world where you're not choosing Fatal Push. This is like the removal spell. And again, changed the game.

Speaker 1:
[42:46] If Richard was here, he'd be giving a speech about how it pushed Armageddon out of modern and it ruined everything. And if only they didn't print Fatal Push, he'd be killing people with his Jundek. But yes, I mean, Fatal Push really did do all that stuff. Like that rant Richard gives is kind of true, that this card changed modern. It changed, it just changed the game of magic. And we still see the repercussions of this and other removal spells that came after it, where the threats now have to be snowball-y enough and efficient enough to fight through a Fatal Push. And I think it plays into that whole cycle that we've seen of just like the game speeding up over the past decade. And I think Fatal Push and other similar cards after it are a big reason for that. I mean, Fable of the Mirrorbreaker, great card, very good card. One of my favorite cards now, now that it's out of standard, I enjoy the card. But Fatal Push just had such a big impact. And the community agreed, this one was also close 52 to 48. But Fatal Push did get by Fable of the Mirrorbreaker.

Speaker 2:
[43:39] I don't see how, this is wild to me that Three Fairy barely won and Fatal Push barely won. I think this means people gotta like go back and just see how oppressive some of these cards were.

Speaker 1:
[43:50] It's a modern, come on, come on people. All right, our next one also, oddly close, Basaju who endures versus Force Innecation.

Speaker 2:
[44:01] Oh, sure. Okay, hold on. I'm going to vote Force Innecation. I really like Force Innecation here. We, especially in the context, okay. Well, Basaju has the fact that it goes through standard, which is what makes it like better. And I would play the... Everybody plays the hell out of Basaju in Commander.

Speaker 1:
[44:21] Everywhere, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[44:22] But Force Innecation was such an important spell for Modern because that was back when I was playing Modern a lot more.

Speaker 1:
[44:30] And then again, for like timeless and historic, right? Like a few years later when they entered into Arena, it kind of had that same impact again on the Arena formats.

Speaker 2:
[44:38] I'm thinking about all the formats where you, like free spells and free counter spells specifically are so important. And I think that Beseju, or Force Negation, just is that card, right? It's kind of like the one thing that made people sweat, all the unfair decks. And I think it was needed. I think it was needed in Timeless. I think Force Negation is a needed card, but I don't... But Beseju got played through everything.

Speaker 1:
[45:09] That's kind of where I land, right? Force Negation was a card that they had to make to make Formats function. But then Beseju, I think, sees more play because it's on a land, so it's so easy just to throw a deck. So it's in every Commander deck and Modern decks, a lot of Timeless decks and historic decks, Pioneer decks, Commander decks. And for me, I kind of hate Beseju because I think this is the card. What Fatal Push did to Tarmagoyf in Modern, Beseju did to my beloved Blood Moon, just having so many decks have this sitting around. They made like ensnaring bridges and Blood Moons and all the lock pieces that I love playing. Oh no, you could vote with people. You could vote much worse in those formats. I know, I know. Boohoo, pardon me. But yes. So what are we going to vote on, Crim? What do we pick here? Like I kind of lean Beseju, but I'm very much in the middle on this one.

Speaker 2:
[46:01] I think by the same metrics that I would vote on some of the other cards, I think I have to vote Beseju. Because Beseju is played across the board in every format, and it's played in... And if you even want to throw in Commander, then it's played in every deck, regardless of like bracket level, right?

Speaker 1:
[46:19] Because Force is a little like mid-end Commander, right? Like Force in the game, it's not horrible, but it's not like something I play in every blue Commander deck.

Speaker 2:
[46:26] It's only in CDH, right? Because at that point, you have something you're trying to push through or protect, right? Or stop. Casual doesn't care. And in every other format, right? Like, I don't know, like you only have Modern and like Legacy otherwise. So this one is one of those cards where maybe because it was only printed straight into Modern, Force of Negation doesn't do enough. And yeah, actually, okay, if Force of Negation was in Standard, it would be good, right? It would obviously be good.

Speaker 1:
[46:59] It would be good, yeah. It would definitely see like Negate for one more mana. We already play Negate in Standard. One more mana for Negate that can like Freecast to stop an artist's talent or something. I think that'd see play.

Speaker 2:
[47:10] A Free Spell. Force of Negation is so good though, right? Okay. Is it unfair? Would it be fair to say that if it was printed and went through Standard, it would have the same effect as Bersagio?

Speaker 1:
[47:23] I think that's probably, Discounting Commander, I would say that's probably true. I think Bersagio just has more impact on Commander at casual levels, but outside of that, I think if it went through Standard, it would have a similar impact, yes.

Speaker 2:
[47:35] So then I guess, yeah, then that means Bersagio narrowly wins by being viable in one more format then?

Speaker 1:
[47:43] I mean, that's where- That's where the community landed. Oh, the community landed on Bersagio. 51% to 49% Bersagio. They must have been doing the same thing we were, of just like, it's so, this is one of the hardest ones in this whole round, I think, for sure, like, so close. But I'd give Bersagio the edge just because of the commander aspect. Like, being casual along with CDH, but they're both so good.

Speaker 2:
[48:08] But like, let's just say that in the formats that force negation would be legal in, it would be the card.

Speaker 1:
[48:13] More important than Bersagio. Yes. In like, modern or timeless or those formats, I think it's more important than Bersagio, yeah. Ah, so I guess it depends on what you value. Like, do you value modern? Do you value commander? Do you care if it goes through standard?

Speaker 2:
[48:28] If we go through like, how impactful like, Oko was, right? It would be the guy, right? That's the card of that format. And that's what we kind of talked about it, or like, and voted on it for.

Speaker 1:
[48:40] And force negation really changed the formats where it was printed for, like modern. Like, we didn't have a free counter spell. Like, it was something that when Modern Horizons came out, this was like the force of will of modern. And there were all these degenerate combo decks that we didn't have a free way to stop. And this just became like four of main deck, or in some cases, sideboard card, to stop those decks. So it had a really huge impact. Maybe not as impactful today as when it first came out. But when it first came out, this was the card. It was like $70 a copy or something. It was ridiculous.

Speaker 2:
[49:09] It's still good though, right?

Speaker 1:
[49:10] No, it is still good. We've just got more other options. So it doesn't, you don't have to lean on it as heavily since we've got more and more cards, like force of will is coming to arena now and so forth. But it's still very good.

Speaker 2:
[49:20] Yeah, I guess I just narrowly besiege you then, just narrowly.

Speaker 1:
[49:25] Last matchup of this round, Crim, and then we'll do the top eight and finish this up. Loras of the Dream Den versus Raghavan, Nimble Pilfer. And I think this is actually a super easy matchup. I think it goes back to what we were talking about before. Yes, Raghavan destroyed Modern for like a year or two before it got power crept out by Orgrish Bowmasters. Loras literally broke the entire game of Magic. Like there's been nothing in my time in Magic that has totally shifted every format from standard back to vintage the way the companion did. And Loras was the best of the companions. I think Loras is still maybe the best creature that's ever been made. I'm a very short list of best creatures that have ever been printed. So for me, this is easy Loras. But I don't know, is there an argument you see for Raghavan, Crim?

Speaker 2:
[50:10] No, not at all. I mean, like Loras dodged or got a whole game mechanic changed, like the rules of it.

Speaker 1:
[50:20] The whole thing.

Speaker 2:
[50:21] And it's still good.

Speaker 1:
[50:22] And it's still good.

Speaker 2:
[50:23] And it's still good.

Speaker 1:
[50:25] That's the crazy part, right? You can add three mana to Loras' cost, the cost you have to pay to get it in your hand, and it's still getting banned in multiple formats, even with the three, it doubled its price essentially, and it's still good enough to get banned.

Speaker 2:
[50:36] So that probably, I mean, obviously companion itself as a mechanic was slightly flawed, but just a tad bit. It is funny though, because like Raghavan at one point, I just remember everyone's like, this is the greatest card ever printed. And now I don't even hear about Raghavan ever.

Speaker 1:
[50:55] No, it was on my dartboard. It was my dartboard card for a while, and now it's not anymore. So yeah, Raghavan, whatever. It's fine, it's a good one drop, but yeah, I mean, it's no Loras.

Speaker 2:
[51:05] It's a good one drop, read one drop. Imagine reading that card in 2001, right? Like...

Speaker 1:
[51:13] All right, let's, and the community on that one agreed, Loras, 63% went through. So we're to the top eight, Crim, our last few matchups here. So these are all matchups, all cards that we've already talked about. So the top eight matchup number one, Underworld Breach versus Oko Thief of Crowns.

Speaker 2:
[51:29] Oko.

Speaker 1:
[51:30] Oh, it's just straight up Oko? Ok, yeah, not close. Oh, I think it's actually close, but I still think it's Oko. But I think that like, Breach is really good. But Oko is just like a game defining card. And Underworld Breach is just a little below that for me.

Speaker 2:
[51:45] Yeah, like I think Breach is a specific deck. Oko was, we're now double splashing.

Speaker 1:
[51:52] Yeah, yes, exactly. And Underworld Breach does get shut down by Graveyard Hate. Oko doesn't, like, so yeah, I think there's a few reasons why Oko is the right choice. Community agreed 51 to 49, though. So they were actually super close on that one. Urza Saga vs. Uro. I want to say Uro, but I'm not sure that that's correct. This one's actually kind of tricky too. Uro went through standard, it broke standard. Saga probably sees more plain now.

Speaker 2:
[52:30] Saga, I think is generically better.

Speaker 1:
[52:33] Colorless, going to some more decks potentially.

Speaker 2:
[52:36] Yeah. I guess it's Urza Saga.

Speaker 1:
[52:41] But Uro can put Urza Saga into play, Crim.

Speaker 2:
[52:44] You just play it in the same deck, right? No, I-

Speaker 1:
[52:47] Play them all together.

Speaker 2:
[52:49] I do think it's Urza Saga.

Speaker 1:
[52:53] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[52:53] But I don't feel good saying it, but I think it is Urza Saga.

Speaker 1:
[52:57] Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's close. This surprised me, the community vote was 75% for Urza Saga to 25% Uro. I think that's incorrect. I think Uro is closer to Urza Saga than those numbers would suggest. But I do think Urza Saga is the better card overall.

Speaker 2:
[53:16] Yeah, I'll agree with that.

Speaker 1:
[53:19] So that means Oko Urza Saga are first two final four cards on the other side to Fairy's Back Grimm against Fatal Push this time. Hmm. Hmm.

Speaker 2:
[53:31] Oh, man.

Speaker 1:
[53:33] That's a brutal matchup.

Speaker 2:
[53:35] Oh, I am... Ah, I love both of these cards so much.

Speaker 1:
[53:42] I'm gonna let you do this one. I'm saying I'll do this one, Crim. You're the control master. Whatever you pick, I will go with. I will go along.

Speaker 2:
[53:48] We've got the goat, right? Like the man who just made it so that instance and any kind of interaction was off the table. He was so good. He bounced to anything he played. He turned on. Dude, the upkeep board wipe or whatever felt so good. Fatal Push, though, single-handedly changed the design space of game, like of game time. Oh, God.

Speaker 1:
[54:20] How do you pick? How do you pick? You're just playing both in the same deck, Crim. I know you. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:
[54:25] I would play that. That was my modern deck. But Fatal Push went into more than just control, right?

Speaker 1:
[54:33] Fatal Push was in everything. If you have black, you play it. If you're in black, you play Fatal Push.

Speaker 2:
[54:38] Whereas, the Fairy, I guess, is a little bit more of a specific deck, right? Control. If you wanted to, you could have played, what is it? Bant Snowblade in modern.

Speaker 1:
[54:48] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[54:49] Like, you had all of that. I think Fatal Push is just the generically more, it pains me to say this, the generically better card.

Speaker 1:
[55:00] I agree with your logic, Crim. That's exactly what you said. That I think to Fairy is like more splashy and like very, very impactful. But it's just hard to beat something like Fatal Push. It goes in so many decks. And the community landed on the same thing. It was 53 to 46. So very close. Fatal Push did beat to Fairy just barely. That's painful.

Speaker 2:
[55:22] That's painful.

Speaker 1:
[55:23] That one hurts. Our last top eight matchup, Crim, Massagio versus Louris.

Speaker 2:
[55:28] Okay. Well, sure. What did you do? Is this even close? I would be amazed if the community went with like anything other than Louris, right? Like, as a matter of fact, okay, what do we have going on from the other bracket, hypothetically, Oko?

Speaker 1:
[55:46] So, the last card is left right now. Oko, Thief of Crowns versus Urza Saga, and then Fatal Push versus whoever wins this matchup. Those are the last cards.

Speaker 2:
[55:56] I could see, okay, I'll be honest with you. Let's just go ahead and assume that Louris wins this.

Speaker 1:
[56:02] It's got to be Louris.

Speaker 2:
[56:03] It's Louris, right? And then now you play this game of ball where it's like, well, what wins? And with the final four, I think it's Oko versus Louris, right? Actually, Fatal Push, man, that is a tough top four. I don't think Saga wins. I don't think Saga wins. I don't like Saga in this. I like Oko more. I mean, Fatal Push and Louris. Those are like three cards that...

Speaker 1:
[56:28] I mean, for me, I'd be looking at Oko beating Ursa Saga, and then I think Louris beats Fatal Push, and then Oko versus Louris in the finals, would actually kind of make sense to me. I think they actually might be the two most broken or best cards of the past decade. So I...

Speaker 2:
[56:45] How? Why? Why Fatal Push over Louris?

Speaker 1:
[56:50] Why would I pick Louris over Fatal Push?

Speaker 2:
[56:52] Oh yeah, yeah, Louris over Fatal Push.

Speaker 1:
[56:55] I feel like Louris, before the Arada, was just like the most game breaking card in my time of like being in Magic. Like it's... I've never seen anything like it before. I've never seen a card or mechanic that just totally caused upheaval to the game. I know we've talked about Fatal Push changing design, changing formats, and it did, but I think Louris would have done the same thing if it hadn't been Arada. I did do the same thing for like two months before it got Arada and they had to change the whole thing, but I can see an argument for Fatal. Like Fatal Push is having more of an impact now, right? It still is doing what it has always done. It is still the forerunner in all those decks. It's still changing design space. When Louris has been nerfed, it's been banned in a lot of places, it's not making that impact. So I guess I can see the arguments either way. What would you go with, Crim, out of those two matchups? Oko vs Asaga, Fatal Push, Louris, who would you put into the finals?

Speaker 2:
[57:46] I mean, Oko is gonna win the other... Like, Oko's gotta be a top two.

Speaker 1:
[57:53] It's gotta be, right?

Speaker 2:
[57:54] It's gotta be a top two. But I also could see it being Oko, Fatal Push.

Speaker 1:
[58:01] I could see that.

Speaker 2:
[58:02] Like, as much as I love Louris, right? Or it won't love. As much as Louris had an impact on the game, I think Fatal Push, for in this... This isn't a bracket of, like, the most broken cards of all time. Right? So this is the bracket of the best Magic cards. And I want to talk about that I think Fatal Push feels balanced, strong, very efficient. I don't think it ever needs a ban. And we're still trying to make Fatal Push 2 to this day. So my argument is that I think Fatal Push is also equally balanced, which is why I can even see it winning over this top four. Because of all of these cards, they are not, they don't feel balanced compared to, like, Fatal Push. So the perfect Magic card on this top four feels like Fatal Push.

Speaker 1:
[58:53] That is actually a very compelling argument you just made, Crim. The idea that this is the one card that actually is best in the sense that it was actually balanced enough to not be banned everywhere actually makes a lot of sense to me. All these other cards, I would argue, are maybe more rawly powerful in a vacuum, like Oko or Lurus were more, like, game breaking. But just breaking the game doesn't necessarily make you the best card, right? Fatal Push.

Speaker 2:
[59:16] No, you're actually a bad card.

Speaker 1:
[59:18] Right, a lot of times we don't want the cards to be breaking the game. That's a bad thing. Fatal Push changed the game without breaking the game, which is something none of these other cards have done. Well, I will tell you, Crim, here's where the community landed, and this shocked me because I hard disagree with this. Urza Saga, 55% to 45% for Oko. Actually, they put through Urza Saga over Oko, which shocked me.

Speaker 2:
[59:44] What? What? No.

Speaker 1:
[59:45] Yeah, that one blew my mind. I think this is the first time we've just straight up disagreed with the community, and I am firmly in the Oko camp in this one. And then they put Louris through 65% to 35% over Fatal Push. Not even close. Just hard bashed on Louris there.

Speaker 2:
[60:03] Again, I think this is more of just like people thinking of how broken these cards are, and then maybe, sure, Louris is a broken card, but this is like the best magic card, right? And a card that's good for the game can't also be broken. Like absurdly broken.

Speaker 1:
[60:20] How can you be the best card if they head to Arada and tell your mechanic you're banned in multiple formats? That's actually a good point. So, Crim, what is your pick then for best card of the past decade? In our bracket, we ended with Oko vs Fatal Push. Oko vs Fatal Push.

Speaker 2:
[60:36] I choose Fatal Push, right, because Oko is broken, right? Like Oko straight up terrorized me for years, and it is a broken card. Like, I think Fatal Push is a wonderful design, beautiful removal, and yeah, like, it's just a good clean card.

Speaker 1:
[60:57] You convinced me, Crim. Coming into this, I would have picked Oko. I definitely would have picked Oko over Fatal Push, but your argument actually swayed me, and you had me convinced that Fatal Push is actually the best Magic card from the past decade. So, I'm gonna go with it. I'm gonna go with it. We will find out. The community voting is not done. They're voting on Urza Saga vs. Louris for best card.

Speaker 2:
[61:17] That's a wild final.

Speaker 1:
[61:19] Who do you think wins the community vote when they post it later today out of those two? Like, what do you think the community chooses?

Speaker 2:
[61:25] Probably Louris. Because if you want to think about Busted, Urza Saga is not anywhere near Louris.

Speaker 1:
[61:31] Yeah, I think so too. And like, Louris.

Speaker 2:
[61:33] Over Oko, that's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[61:35] That is. That one absolutely shocked me. Anyway, that is the best Magic card from the past decade. I will post this bracket in the description if you want to play along, or maybe you've already been playing along. But I think that's all the time we have on our podcast for today, Crim. So anyway, that is Episode 4 or 584 of MTGGoldfish Podcast. Thanks for hanging out, Crim. Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to our sponsors for supporting the show. And we'll be back next week to talk about whatever goes on in the world of Magic. So until then, have a great week. And this is The Crew signing out.