transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] The following podcast contains explicit language and content that may not be suitable for all listeners. We are coming on the air with some breaking news.

Speaker 2:
[00:12] A major twist in a case we've been following for decades. Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann has changed his plea.

Speaker 3:
[00:19] The calm, serene, almost grandfatherly image that Rex Heuermann portrayed since his arrest was a lie. Today, he was exposed for exactly what he is. A sadistic, soulless, murderous monster.

Speaker 4:
[00:35] He identified these women, lured them into Nassau County, murdered them and left their bodies in Suffolk County.

Speaker 1:
[00:44] Two years and nine months after the arrest, Rex Heuermann stood in an open court and admitted guilt. A day that seemed impossible ten years ago, when I started this journey, has finally come. I was there to witness it and now bring you the details, the fallout and what it all means. From ID and Joke Productions, this is Unraveled, Long Island Serial Killer. It's 4.45 in the morning on April 8th. I am sitting in front of the courthouse, where Rex Heuermann apparently is going to change his plea to guilty today. It is 30 degrees outside. I've been in New York for less than 24 hours. I haven't slept, I'm pulling an all-nighter, and just hoping that the adrenaline is going to get me over the finish line for today. I'm here this early because I wanted to be first in line. I wanted to make sure to get a good spot inside the courtroom. I've been waiting for this moment for more than 10 years, so it's a big day. I think I'm the only one here besides a bunch of media vans.

Speaker 5:
[02:16] We are just hours away from accused killer Rex Heuermann, expected to plead guilty to the Gilgo Beach murders.

Speaker 6:
[02:22] One of the most consequential court appearances, at least in recent memory here on Long Island.

Speaker 7:
[02:27] The former New York City architect was arrested in 2023 and originally pleaded not guilty to killing seven women.

Speaker 8:
[02:33] Breaking news in the Gilgo Beach serial murder case, and Rex Heuermann is now expected to plead guilty in the death of an eighth woman.

Speaker 1:
[02:43] It was a long wait that morning, but eventually we all made it in. Afterwards, I recorded some of my thoughts, so instead of recalling it now, here were some observations I made much closer to when it happened. When I was in line for court, Asa Elarek, that's Rex Heuermann's wife, had to wait in line with the rest of us. And apparently that's because in the past, Asa has been allowed to cut the line, but I guess somebody complained. So even though cameras were swarming her, and I'm talking like 30 cameras and reporters shouting questions at her, they waited in line where she was just sort of a sitting duck and people were able to swarm her and throw questions at her and scream in her direction. And I can't imagine how stressful that was too on them. Thankfully, the victim's families weren't there. I think the DA's office got them in and out of the courtroom through some back door because we never saw them in a knee line, and they were already there in the courtroom when the public was let in. So once we got our seats in court, we had to wait two more hours before the proceeding began. When Heuermann was let in, when it was finally time for the session to begin, he was let in by two huge bailiffs. It was like everyone took a collective breath, and was just on the edge of their seats as he came in.

Speaker 4:
[04:04] Thank you, Your Honor. It is the understanding of the district attorney's office that the defendant will plead guilty to seven counts in the indictment. In addition to allocuting to and admitting his factual guilt, the defendant further reads that although he has not been charged with this crime, he will admit as part of his plea that he intentionally caused the death of Karen Brigada, and transported and left her remains in Suffolk County in 1996. The defendant agrees to waive his right to appeal, which includes the court's prior hearing determination. The defendant further acknowledges that his waiver is being agreed to knowingly and voluntarily, and made for the purpose of receiving the benefit of not being charged with the murder of Karen Brigada, or any other charges related to the deaths of Mourning Brayden Barnes, Melissa Barthelome, Megan Warderman, Amber Costello, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, and Sandra Castilla.

Speaker 9:
[04:56] Thank you. Mr. Heuermann, before I sway you when the allocation is taken, I have some questions to ask of you. They're obvious and simple questions, but I have to ask them, okay?

Speaker 3:
[05:08] Yes, Your Honor.

Speaker 9:
[05:09] How old are you? You're reading and writing English?

Speaker 3:
[05:13] Yes.

Speaker 10:
[05:13] And you discussed this case with your attorney?

Speaker 3:
[05:15] Yes, I have.

Speaker 9:
[05:16] Have you had enough time to discuss this case with your attorney?

Speaker 6:
[05:19] Yes, I have.

Speaker 9:
[05:20] Do you understand that by pleading guilty to a charge, that is the same as you would have gone to trial and you're found guilty of that charge?

Speaker 11:
[05:26] Yes, Your Honor.

Speaker 9:
[05:27] Do you understand that by pleading guilty, you're waiving a number of very important rents?

Speaker 11:
[05:30] Yes, Your Honor.

Speaker 9:
[05:31] Has anyone forced, threatened, or coerced you with the pleading guilty?

Speaker 3:
[05:35] No.

Speaker 9:
[05:35] Are you under the influence of any drugs, medication, or alcohol right now?

Speaker 3:
[05:39] No.

Speaker 9:
[05:39] Are you pleading guilty voluntarily and of your own free will?

Speaker 3:
[05:42] Yes. All right.

Speaker 9:
[05:43] We're going to swear in the defendant now.

Speaker 1:
[05:48] When Heuermann signed the actual plea agreement, deputies removed the two sets of handcuffs. He signed the document with his left hand, and then they immediately re-cuffed him. Part of the proceeding was an allocution, which is a statement made by a defendant in court after he pleads guilty to a crime. This is addressed to the judge, who can use the statement to decide whether the charge and plea are justified. Now, the judge didn't allow for the actual allocution to be filmed. Here's how I recalled it that day. It wasn't the type of allocution that would require Heuermann to walk the court through his crimes in detail. It was more an allocution where District Attorney Tierney read yes or no questions, and Heuermann was to give basically one word responses. For all of these victims, District Attorney asked Heuermann if he was in fact responsible for killing them. One at a time, Heuermann said yes, yes, yes, yes. He was also required to answer how he killed them. And for each of them, he said strangulation. I wasn't sure what to expect as far as Sandra Costilla was concerned because there were circumstances involved in the way her body was found that left some questions up in the air because she had suffered stab wounds. But he admitted that no, in her case as well, strangulation. It was a very tense moment with these families sitting here, with Rex Heuermann's family sitting there, everyone's distraught. I can't imagine how the families felt like after all of these years.

Speaker 12:
[07:30] More than 30 years after a killing spree began terrorizing Long Island, Serial Killer stood up in court and admitted guilt. Families of the victims were there packing the courtroom, along with investigators who've been working the case all these years.

Speaker 13:
[07:46] You could hear a pen drop inside, you heard scribbling of notes, you heard typing of keys.

Speaker 14:
[07:52] Family members gasped as they listened to Heuermann describe how he strangled, dismembered and disposed of their bodies near Long Island's Gilgo Beach.

Speaker 13:
[07:59] You'd hear sobbing, tears were being wiped away and it was really emotional inside there.

Speaker 1:
[08:06] And what also struck me is just the normalcy of the day for everyone else. Like bailiffs before the proceedings began were cracking jokes. And when the proceedings ended, the judge made a comment and said, you don't got to go home, but you got to get out of here. And it was lighthearted and it felt mismatched for the heaviness of that moment. And something else I noticed too, and that struck me about Heuermann, was just his disposition was very casual. It was almost like he was shrugging these questions off. Like he couldn't even fake taking this seriously. He couldn't even fake acting somber or ashamed to reflect the magnitude and the pain tied to this moment. The entire proceeding lasted perhaps 30 minutes, and afterwards there were a string of press conferences. First up was Michael Brown, Heuermann's defense attorney.

Speaker 15:
[09:04] What is the specific change and when?

Speaker 16:
[09:07] I can't give you our conversations that are confidential, but I will say to you that there came a point in this defense where Rex said I want to plead guilty. And it was at that point when we really had an objective of protecting his interests. I'm not going to get into the time frame.

Speaker 15:
[09:24] Plead comes sometime after the judge ruled on DNA.

Speaker 14:
[09:27] Was that part of the calculation?

Speaker 16:
[09:29] From a strategic standpoint for the defense, in terms of likelihood of success at trial, so to speak, the judge's ruling on the Frey hearing was monumental. Once that nuclear DNA comes into play, those statistics, they're off the charts. Another major part is our motion to sever, which the court disagreed with us and the court permitted all of the counts and the indictment to remain together. That's a big, big win for the prosecution. We worked very hard on this case. I can't tell you the amount of the volume of discovery that we reviewed. But when somebody pivots and says, I'm done and I want to accept responsibility, all right, as the attorney, we have to follow his directive.

Speaker 17:
[10:12] There is still one unidentified victim on Ocean Park Lake.

Speaker 7:
[10:16] No one's been charged with them yet.

Speaker 17:
[10:17] We know them as Asian Doe.

Speaker 10:
[10:19] Did he say anything to you about that victim?

Speaker 16:
[10:21] Yeah, he's denied any involvement with Asian Doe.

Speaker 10:
[10:22] Is he sorry?

Speaker 16:
[10:24] I would hope so. I expect at sentencing, he'll have something to say. Um, I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 18:
[10:31] Was it a sense of relief, you think, for him to admit this tonight?

Speaker 16:
[10:34] I do. I think that was a huge sense of relief for him. I can't, I'm not in his position, obviously, and I never will be. I think by admitting it, I think it's cathartic to some extent.

Speaker 17:
[10:43] Sure.

Speaker 5:
[10:44] Could you tell us if it's probably might have helped him make this decision?

Speaker 16:
[10:48] I think that they speak, and I think certainly several of his concerns, he had many, he certainly wanted to save the families of the victims, or deal of going to trial and coupled with saving his family that ordeal. I know that there was conversations during the course of this defense between his family members and himself in regards to that, yes.

Speaker 17:
[11:08] How much of a factor was federal charges and with that debt penalty factor in this decision?

Speaker 16:
[11:14] I'm not at liberty to discuss that. The record speaks for itself today. All right, guys, thanks for your time.

Speaker 1:
[11:20] Okay, so I'm back in the car. It's about two o'clock. I'm expected to head over to Brentwood, to the Suffolk County Community College Police Academy Auditorium. That's where Ray Tierney is going to be giving his own press conference.

Speaker 4:
[11:35] Thanks, everyone, for coming. This defendant walked among us, play acting as a normal suburban dad, when in reality, all along, he was obsessively targeting innocent women for death. He identified these women, lured them into Nassau County, murdered them, and left their bodies in Suffolk County. He thought that by killing them, he could silence them forever and get away with murder. But he was wrong, because it was these victims, these women, who refused to stay silent. And I speak for everyone in law enforcement when I say we are honored and thankful being able to have played a small role in obtaining a small measure of justice for these families. For decades, this case stood out as a painful scar on the face of Suffolk County law enforcement, Suffolk County government, the citizens of Suffolk County, and the victims' families as well. However, with the defendants' pleas of guilt today, it means that for the first time since the deaths of these women, we can turn to all of these same people and say, Rex Heuermann will be held responsible for the 1993 murder of Sandra Castilla. The 1996 murder of Karen Vergata. The 2000 murder of Valerie Mack. The 2003 murder of Jessica Taylor. The 2007 murder of Maureen Brainerd Barnes. The 2009 murder of Melissa Bartholomew. The June 2009 murder of Megan Wardaman. And the September 2010 murder of Ms. Castello.

Speaker 1:
[13:21] There were so many law enforcement agencies represented, all who contributed to the investigation. But it was Melissa Cann, sister of victim Maureen Brainerd Barnes, who gave a voice to those who've suffered the most in the tale of the Long Island serial killer.

Speaker 19:
[13:38] Finally, a sense of relief. The guilty plea brings solace, and I like to thank everyone who had a part in that fight for justice. Also would like to thank the media for continuing to keep this case in the public eye. Nineteen years, I lived in a space between heartbreak and hope. Throughout these years, I searched for answer, for truth, for justice. There were moments when the weight felt unbearable, but I never gave up. Maureen was never forgotten. Our mission, our promise to Maureen, is finally met with accountability. For Melissa's, Megan's, Amber's, Jessica's, Valerie's, Sandra's and Karen's family, I stand with you in deep love and understanding. No one should ever have to walk this path, yet here we all are, connected by loss, by strength, and the unbreakable bond of our loved ones. To every family out there, still searching, still waiting, still holding on, please do not give up hope. Even when it feels impossible, even when the years pass and the silence grow heavy, keep going. Your loved ones matter. And one day answers can come. Because even in the darkest moments, justice will find its way. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[15:00] It was an emotional moment to have so many victims' families up on stage together. Ray Tierney also shared how it was Melissa, Maureen Brainerd Barnes' sister, and Amanda, Melissa Bartholomew's sister, who reached out to him before he took office. He described how he heard the pain and frustration in their voices, how they wanted answers and closure. It's clear that he understood the assignment. After years of no or half-hearted attempts by leadership to prioritize this investigation, he decided to lead the task force very differently. Not as political fodder, which had been the MO of past administrations, but quietly.

Speaker 4:
[15:44] We were going to pretend as though it was business as usual in Suffolk County. And the reason why we were going to do that was because we knew what we were doing. We were playing to an audience of one. And that one person, of course, was the murderer. We wanted to lure that individual into a false sense of security.

Speaker 1:
[16:07] The DA made a point to call out the investigators over the years who kept pushing the boulder up the hill, many of whom are now retired. But he also acknowledged the stain that's been associated with the likes of James Burke and Tom Spoda.

Speaker 4:
[16:21] We in Suffolk County, like we've been portrayed a certain way, because these women worked in a certain field that, oh, who cares? I hope it shows that in Suffolk County, we want everybody to be safe, we want everybody to be protected, and those people who prey upon our citizens or citizens elsewhere and bring them into Suffolk County, we want to hold them responsible. I think the investigators did a good job. I think for the entire time it remained pending is a failure of Suffolk County leadership, and I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 1:
[16:51] Some of the investigators he called out were already familiar with, like state police investigator Tiffany Attai, who connected the Chevy Avalanche to Rex Heuermann. But it was also great to hear about Eric Perry and Mike Saybrook, the two FBI agents who in 2011 mapped the famous cell phone boxes over Midtown Manhattan and Massapequa. Back then, they did it by driving around neighborhoods, mapping cell sites. This turned out to be crucial evidence, because after Hurricane Sandy, the landscape changed and so did the cell towers. So, current investigators would not have been able to recreate that data. Ray Tierney also mentioned Clyde in the Suffolk County Crime Lab, who is now retired. But Clyde is the man responsible for the biggest evidence of the case, the DNA.

Speaker 4:
[17:41] He pushed the PD and he pushed our office to send certain hairs out for mitochondrial and then later, nuclear DNA testing. He was recalling with great specificity certain hairs of interest that he thought were really going to bear fruit. And I was saying, was he this meticulous? And, you know, to go to a crime scene in the 2000s and not have the capability to get nuclear DNA, but yet to be so precise and exact in gathering evidence, cataloging the evidence, safeguarding the evidence, and then being able to advocate for its use. Without Clyde, we probably wouldn't have gotten that evidence.

Speaker 1:
[18:21] Of course, he also thanked Astrea Labs and their scientists for the nuclear DNA matching. Tierney made it a point to mention the United States Secret Service, who, as it was previously reported, helped with the recovery of the infamous planning document. But it turns out their forensic division helped with other things as well.

Speaker 4:
[18:41] We recovered a bounty paper towel off of the crime scene of Megan Wardaman. They processed that and they compared that to the same bounty towel that we recovered in the home of the defendant. They matched, and this was a memento that we argued the defendant kept.

Speaker 1:
[18:58] So a piece of bounty paper towel was recovered from inside the mouth of Megan Wardaman. The pattern was identified as one that was exclusively created for the BJ's wholesale box store. And only in the year 2010, the year Megan Wardaman disappeared. Investigators then found in Heuermann's possessions a receipt for those exact paper towels from BJ's. And this is the key here. They found a square of this paper towel in his desk drawer. And the fact it was there for more than a decade, prosecutors were going to argue that it meant that he kept it as a memento or a trophy, a way to relive the crime. Heuermann probably thought he was being clever, you know, compared to past serial killers who kept things like driver's licenses or other very identifiable possessions of the victims. He may have decided to keep what seemed like an innocent piece of paper towel, something innocuous, something law enforcement would never clock as having significance. However, that unique pattern created evidence the DA was planning to bring to a jury. After the press conference, a few of us who have been on this case for years got some extra Q&A time with the District Attorney Ray Tierney, and then we shared our notes. If you've been a listener for a while, you'll recognize reporters Laura Engel, Mary Murphy, and documentarian Josh Zieman. We talked about a number of things, including the other potential victims associated with the Long Island Serial Killer, the ones Rex Heuermann is not currently charged with.

Speaker 11:
[20:33] I asked him about, did you send your investigators out to investigate Carmen Vargas, which even though it was in Nassau County, and he said, yes. So that to me was kind of interesting, that he was willing to go that far. You know, when he believes something, he kind of gives you an indication.

Speaker 19:
[20:51] Yes, he smiles.

Speaker 15:
[20:52] Apparently, they do feel Carmen Vargas is a strong candidate for being one of the victims.

Speaker 11:
[20:57] Did you ask about Ishando?

Speaker 19:
[20:59] Yes.

Speaker 11:
[20:59] Yeah, very good. Thank you for doing that. Even though Brown has said he doesn't admit to any other crimes, Ray Tierney said, as to Ishando, it doesn't matter what I think, it's what I can prove, which means there's still the idea that, yes, Rex also did.

Speaker 1:
[21:13] When you're about to go to prison for the rest of your life, there is an interest in denying a crime like that. There's a survival in prison interest there, possibly.

Speaker 15:
[21:22] That you aren't consorting with transsexuals.

Speaker 1:
[21:24] Right, because that puts a target on your back.

Speaker 11:
[21:27] Which leads to Tatiana, the baby.

Speaker 1:
[21:29] Right. That's another even more stigmatized and regular homicide. Right. Rex Heuermann has denied any involvement in the murders of Tanya and Tatiana. In our last episode, we took a closer look at their case, and the man Nassau County believes is responsible for their deaths. Part of the plea agreement, and something that took us all by surprise, was the fact that Rex Heuermann would be cooperating with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit, the BAU, which you may know best from shows like Mindhunter and Criminal Minds, the federal profilers of serial killers. Here's the judge at the hearing with Michael Brown, the defense attorney, responding.

Speaker 9:
[22:12] Other than the promise that was placed on the record by the people, as anyone, myself, your lawyer, the prosecutor, or anyone else, any promises due in return be a plea of guilty.

Speaker 16:
[22:22] The only thing I want to interject, Judge, my client is also obligated to completely, truthfully, and fairly cooperate with the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Behavioral Analysis Unit.

Speaker 1:
[22:33] And here is Michael Brown again, at the press conference afterwards.

Speaker 16:
[22:38] When Rex decided that he wanted to accept responsibility and didn't want to proceed to trial, from a defense standpoint, we then pivoted and did our best to protect his interest. That included the fact that he's going to cooperate with the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Behavioral Analysis Unit.

Speaker 15:
[22:58] Can you talk a little bit about the parameters of the FBI cooperation?

Speaker 16:
[23:02] I'm not at liberty to discuss any of that. All I can say is he has an obligation to cooperate fully and completely with the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Behavioral Analysis Unit. I can't get into anything further.

Speaker 1:
[23:16] That all sounds somewhat mysterious. It wasn't the district attorney who brought it up as a requirement of the plea. It was the defense that wanted it read into the record. Here's Josh.

Speaker 11:
[23:27] There's all this talk about Rex wanting to tell everybody his crimes in some kind of megalomaniac way. And so is this that?

Speaker 1:
[23:40] The agreement states that if any new crimes come to light in those meetings, Rex Heuermann can be charged with them. No immunity is given in return for speaking with the FBI. For Rex Heuermann, who we know from his plan and document, was obsessed with John Douglas, one of the original BAU FBI agents, this is a chance to show them how he used their knowledge to stay hidden for so long. And I get there's value for the FBI in studying someone like Rex Heuermann. I get it. He's a contemporary serial killer. He was using the internet, burner phones, email addresses. They haven't had a lot of modern-day serial killers to study in that way. But I do think this agreement is rubbing a number of people the wrong way. In Heuermann's planning document, he referred to serial killers as artists. He said this, quote, study the artist, study the painting. So that's how he sees himself. And the idea that he's going to be studied as if he's some diabolical genius, an artist. You can see how that may stroke his ego, and possibly validate him. I do think it's telling that the language, to, quote, fully and completely cooperate, is in there, as I'm sure the FBI doesn't want to be wasting their time. But truthfully, I'm not sure what their recourse is, if he just decides not to cooperate, if he's just doing this for his own ego. And also, how will they know if he's fully cooperating or not? I guess time will tell. And lastly, there was big talk about CODIS. Once a defendant is convicted, their DNA is added to CODIS, the national DNA database of convicted felons. With Rex Heuermann's DNA finally being added after sentencing, well, we have to ask, will it light up with numerous hits? Mary, Josh and I had some thoughts.

Speaker 15:
[25:34] There was no seminal fluid or anything like that. However, the rootless hairs did them in.

Speaker 1:
[25:38] It was groundbreaking for this rootless hair to make it into these proceedings. What if other jurisdictions have the rootless hairs and they're not in CODIS?

Speaker 15:
[25:46] I heard it's harder to get a hit in CODIS with rootless hairs, that it doesn't really work that well.

Speaker 11:
[25:51] I don't think there's any victims outside of New York.

Speaker 1:
[25:53] I think the house is really central to what he does.

Speaker 11:
[25:56] He felt comfortable with the sexual status. A lot of what it was was, un-tragically, torturing these girls for three days at a time, you know, like hanging them up and doing all this stuff. And you can't do that at a timeshare in Las Vegas. There's just not the space, you know. He wanted the control. He wanted to be home. I remember they used to call us a seasonal killer, right? It wasn't that he was seasonal, she was. The wife was seasonal when she went away. Nobody considered that part of it. So it's all about her being away so he can have, quote, play time.

Speaker 1:
[26:31] In a full circle moment, I remember that Dominic Verrone, who we interviewed for Unraveled back in 2020, long before Rex Heuermann was identified, even before Ray Tierney launched his bid for DA, predicted exactly this scenario. Dominic Verrone was the chief of detectives when the remains of the victims were found on Ocean Parkway. He was leading the investigation when James Burke became chief of police and either fired or reassigned the detectives on the case. Here's how Dominic Verrone described who he thought the killer would be at the time.

Speaker 20:
[27:05] I hate to speculate, but I think it's a house. I think he has it to himself. I think, I don't think his family is with them, or certainly they're away at the time. And I just don't see him leaving. And I think he wanted to spend some time with the victims. And I think he had his way with them. And I think he was able to prolong the agony with them for probably more than one day.

Speaker 1:
[27:33] In hindsight, he turns out to be eerily accurate. After the break, more on Karen Vergada's murder and how Rex Heuermann's admission of guilt helps us flesh out the evolution of his crimes. And later, as the criminal case looks to wrap up, a civil case is filed by a familiar name. What it means for Rex, Asa and the victims' families. For two decades, one of the Ocean Parkway victims was known as Fire Island Jane Doe. That's because in 1996, legs were found washed ashore on Fire Island. To orient you geographically, Fire Island is about 15 miles east of Ocean Parkway, also on the south shore of Long Island. Fire Island is known for its gorgeous beaches and party scene. In 2011, when remains of the other victims were found on Ocean Parkway, so was a lone skull. DNA testing matched that skull to those legs found 15 years earlier on Fire Island. And this Jane Doe became part of the list of victims associated with the Long Island Serial Killer. In fact, it wasn't until 2023, actually after Rex Heuermann's arrest, that she was finally publicly identified as Karen Vergada. In episode 10 of this podcast, we go into more detail about that. And while Rex Heuermann was never officially charged with Karen Vergada's murder, part of his plea agreement did include him admitting to and accepting guilt for her death. He stated the cause of death was strangulation. Laura Engel, my friend and a reporter who has been on this case for a very long time, is deep into an investigative piece on Karen. Here's my conversation with her.

Speaker 2:
[29:41] Karen's story was always seemingly tragic. Karen Vergada's father Dominic had tried to find his daughter when he did not hear from her after that last phone call on Valentine's Day, 1996. And I found some court records. We had heard that obviously she'd had a couple of bumps in the road with the law, and she'd been arrested for some small and minor drug offenses and solicitation charges. But nothing super egregious, but just to kind of follow the track of Dominic trying to find his daughter for so many years is just truly heartbreaking. And that falls into the line of the story that you and I have told. These were women who were missed. These were women who people were looking for. Despite whatever they were doing, they were loved and missed and people wanted to know what happened. And I went over to her apartment where she lived on West 45th. She lived between 8th and 9th. So just to kind of see where she was before she went missing, just gave kind of a new perspective on her life, living over in that Hell's Kitchen area. And then also talking to her friend of hers from high school. He really painted this whole other part of her that we didn't know. She was funny. She loved wearing the floppy hats and the funky jewelry. And I didn't realize that she was an artist. I didn't know that she liked to draw. And she would sketch a lot, you know, hanging out in the quad, going to parties after school, and just a really nice, funny girl.

Speaker 1:
[31:12] Karen is described as very petite, barely 100 pounds, and she lost her mother in her teen years, which was something that greatly affected her. After high school, Karen wandered. She maintained a close relationship with her father, who helped her financially. In terms of a paper trail that we can follow, we see her showing up in court records with minor charges from 1981 onward. But then in 1986, things seemed to stabilize. Karen started a relationship with someone who seemed to really care for her. She became pregnant with her first son, Gary, in 1988. But then she was hit by a bus when she was pregnant, an incident that reportedly prompted her son's premature birth and ultimately his cerebral palsy. Her second son, Eric, was born in 1990. But by 1991, the father of her sons died. After that, Karen hit a rough patch. In the next three years, she was arrested several times. Eventually, it became too much for her to care for her sons on her own. And by 1994, both boys were adopted by the Doherty family. Although Karen maintained a relationship with her boys and visited them until one day, they never heard from her again.

Speaker 21:
[32:36] I remember when she was identified that the district attorney said they were able to at least tell Dominic before he passed away.

Speaker 2:
[32:46] And her two sons got to find out that their mom didn't just leave and never call them. You know, they didn't know what had happened to their mother, but now they do. And you and I saw at the press conference, we saw one of her sons was there with the adoptive mother.

Speaker 1:
[33:04] In 2024, Karen's cremated remains were returned to Gary and Eric, now 35 and 33 respectively, and they were able to bury their mom. Eric has said publicly that it was a shock to find out the manner of how his mother passed. But that it was a major relief that it wasn't her choice to leave and never reconnect with her sons again. As for the evolution of Rex Heuermann as a killer, Karen Vergada fits right in between the murders of Sandra Costilla and Valerie Mack. In episode 36, we speculated that Rex Heuermann could have killed Karen Vergada right before his wedding to Asa Elarep, something that has now been confirmed. A family photo dated April 17th, 1996, puts Rex, Asa and Asa's son Christopher in Gothenburg, Sweden, where Rex and Asa got married. It's believed that he sent his wife, who was pregnant with Victoria at the time, together with her son ahead. And then it's believed he lured Karen, murdered her, dismembered her, and left her remains in various locations before he got on a flight to go get married. It's sickening, really. If Karen Vergada is his second victim and she is in the sequence of women he admits having murdered, she would have been the first that he dismembered. Her torso has never been found. The waters could have taken her out to sea, or perhaps she's somewhere in the woods on Long Island, maybe close to where he left Sandra, or Valerie, or Jessica. We know DA Ray Tierney did a massive search of those woods after Rex Heuermann's arrest, perhaps to look for Karen specifically. Unfortunately, those searches came up empty. Regardless, she's been returned to her family, and they now can have some answers, and the relief in knowing that Karen did not abandon her sons, but was instead taken by Rex Heuermann. Next, a civil lawsuit puts the Heuermann family on the spot. After the plea agreement was signed in court, outside, press conferences were held. And eventually, Asa Elarup, Rex Heuermann's wife and her attorney, Bob Macedonio, had their own press conference where Asa addressed the press and the public directly for the first time.

Speaker 10:
[35:47] Today is an extremely difficult day for everyone involved. Mrs. Elarup in Victoria accept today's outcome without question. She never wanted to believe that the man she was married to for 27 years, the father of Victoria, would be capable of committing such heinous acts. Like so many others, she is still trying to process what was just revealed inside that courtroom and she has to remain strong for her family. On behalf of her family, She's going to read a statement that she prepared last night. She's not going to ask any questions.

Speaker 22:
[36:24] My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. And the focus should be on them at this time and moment. I ask that you give some privacy to my family as they navigate through this very difficult time.

Speaker 17:
[36:51] How did you not see what he was? How did you not see what he had done?

Speaker 10:
[36:57] The District Attorney's Office has thoroughly, thoroughly investigated these crimes, okay? She was away each and every occasion. We've answered this a thousand times, okay? There's no questions.

Speaker 1:
[37:07] After court, when I met up with reporters Laura Engel and Mary Murphy, and documentarian Josh Seaman, we discussed Asa's statement. Here is Mary Murphy on how she perceived Asa.

Speaker 15:
[37:19] She seems fatigued. Her words are dragging like, she's over this. I mean, it's been very difficult. But I feel for the daughter, I feel for Victoria Heuermann. There's been so much negative publicity surrounding her family.

Speaker 1:
[37:32] It's really the first time that she's addressed the press directly, and I was shocked at how many people were still angry, and throwing questions and accusations at her. And I don't think it's fair to keep slamming her for being duped by a sociopath. We can't comprehend what this man is capable of. It's so strange that people won't let it go.

Speaker 15:
[37:52] And they say that she was chosen by him because he could manipulate her. Right.

Speaker 8:
[37:56] He was vulnerable.

Speaker 11:
[37:57] It's Stockholm Syndrome. I mean, you see the words that they're saying about him. They're saying hero and this and that. Those words are, they're not coincidental. They are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. He is manipulating them, just like he's manipulating everybody else. And this plea may be part of that manipulation. He wants something transactional from them, whether that's love, whether that's support.

Speaker 15:
[38:19] You know, money and the common story.

Speaker 11:
[38:21] I did turn back at one point, I think when he said guilty, I turned back and looked at the daughter. And she was just like, you could tell internally, heartbroken.

Speaker 1:
[38:31] Asa, Victoria and Christopher are still living in the Heuermann house in Massapequa. Now with confirmation of the torture and murder that occurred in the basement room next to the laundry area, I'm not sure I could. Christopher has not been to any court hearings. He has special needs. And it's clear Asa was trying to shield him from what was definitely a chaotic day at court. To me, Asa and Victoria appear to be in a different state of mind. After two and a half years, I think they're desperate to put this chapter behind them. But that may not be possible. A civil suit has now been filed in which the family is named as a defendant.

Speaker 23:
[39:13] Benjamin Torres, the son of Valerie Mack, another one of the alleged victims, filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Rex Heuermann and his family.

Speaker 13:
[39:23] And according to the suit, Torres, who is now 32 years old, claims he was deprived of his mom's care and protection, alleging she was tortured ferociously at the hands of Heuermann. The lawsuit also seeks compensation for Anthony Ellerup and their daughter may have earned from a peacock documentary detailing Heuermann's life, saying they showed callous disregard for the victim's families.

Speaker 2:
[39:45] We just had a press conference from Bob Macedonio, the attorney who represents Asa Ellerup and her family.

Speaker 10:
[39:52] The lawsuit is reckless, irresponsible, and completely, completely unsupported by the facts in this case. But let me be absolutely clear, and I want to say this without ambiguity, Mrs. Ellerup, a Victoria Heumann, had no knowledge, no involvement in, no connection whatsoever to these horrific crimes. None. We look to be fully exonerated in this reckless lawsuit brought by John Wray. If anybody has any questions, I'd be happy to respond.

Speaker 18:
[40:21] There's been a lot of news about them making money off of this documentary. What do you say to that?

Speaker 10:
[40:28] I say this is America. People are entitled to whatever they are entitled to do. This is nothing about Rex Heumann. This is about us's life and her process through this, Victoria's life and her process through this whole thing.

Speaker 2:
[40:39] Have you had any direct contact with John Wray since that was filed?

Speaker 10:
[40:42] Honestly, Johnny has spent the better part of a decade trying to remain relevant in this case. He has one client, Shannon Gilbert, and he has tried to latch on to this case. We'll address John Wray in court where it's appropriate. And frankly, we're looking into the possibility of even bringing John Wray as a defendant because of his reckless, vicious attacks on my clients through his numerous press conferences and allegations that he's made against them.

Speaker 1:
[41:06] John Wray, in his signature flamboyant style, this time in a bright purple suit, held his own press conference. Unfortunately, the wind degraded the audio quality, so I reached out to John to get his comments in an interview afterwards.

Speaker 24:
[41:22] Benjamin Torres, Valerie Mack's son, when he was six, he thought his mother left him behind. He's a real victim in all of this. He suffered horribly when he learned what the real fate was of his mother.

Speaker 21:
[41:34] I went through your documents. I just wanted to ask you about a couple of these points. When it says in the furtherance of that agreement, ASSA, LRF, and her victory women committed overt acts, including but not limited to creating or delivering training materials. Do you suspect this or do you think there's evidence of them doing this?

Speaker 24:
[41:50] There's evidence of it, but the evidence doesn't have to be overwhelming, like it does have to be in a criminal trial. So in a civil trial, you have only a preponderance of the evidence, which is not a strong burden to have to carry. We're saying that as to these documents, the mother certainly could have provided them to her husband. Three times the word you appears. It's a more likely conclusion than not, based on language itself, that someone else told him what to do and gave him a list, a checkoff list of what to do, very similar to what wives often do for husbands. There's an equal inference, it's at least equal, that somebody else drafted that for him. The only one that could have done that is the wife.

Speaker 21:
[42:34] You brought up how this is a civil case and you also go after them for some element of negligence and like the failure to intervene.

Speaker 24:
[42:43] Yes. We say that what the family is doing is their profiting on the slaughter that took place in their house by their family's head. And they're profiting by selling the story. And why that matters is not that inherently against any law, but rather while they're doing that, they are verbally torturing the victims' families. No better example of that than when she makes a phone call to him in jail and puts the phone on speaker and has the press film it. Then she goes and says, You're my hero? After she knows from the police what he's accused of, they're grossly neglecting to consider is the hurt that they're inflicting upon the victims' families. The daughter does the same thing in many ways. When she's confronted with her father's depredations, she says, I'm not into kink shaming. So she declares publicly that her father is merely engaging in kinky behavior. You don't think that's rubbing it into the very wounds of Valerie Mack's poor son?

Speaker 21:
[43:58] Even if it's done because they really don't have money or something like that, you don't think that matters?

Speaker 24:
[44:03] No, their intent is to not only cruelly make money, their intent is to basically flaunt their preconditioned beliefs that are horrifying beliefs upon the public.

Speaker 21:
[44:17] Well, I mean, I just think they're living with a psychopath. We don't know the kind of manipulation.

Speaker 24:
[44:25] There's more going on here than meets the eye. The point is that we should have the right civilly to pierce into this and find out what's really the whole truth here. We have that right.

Speaker 21:
[44:35] I thought the part of your lawsuit that was really interesting was the stuff about fraud. And I don't know the legalities of this, because obviously, they were pretty open about the fact that, hey, we're going to do this divorce right away and the assets are going to go to ASSA. So, is that illegal, or is that just fraud?

Speaker 24:
[44:56] Yeah, it's civil fraud, under the debtor and creditor law, where there's no consideration, such as in this case, right? His wife gets everything, he gets nothing. Where that happens, it has upon it what the law calls the badge of fraud. They can be sued, they can be restrained from further spending of what they got. There's all kinds of things you can do to stop even the payment of money to them. They're engaging in knowing fraud.

Speaker 21:
[45:23] I know you believe they know and knew. I don't believe that. I don't believe they knew. But you don't think it matters, even if I'm right, because of the pain inflicted on the victims and what's going on with the money. You don't care whether they knew or not.

Speaker 24:
[45:39] Yeah, it's not that I don't care, it's just that it's immaterial to the causes of action that I've asserted.

Speaker 21:
[45:45] When you think there's a problem with Bob Macedonio getting paid for the documentary, too?

Speaker 24:
[45:53] Absolutely. Macedonio gets paid not by his client to do this, he gets paid by the third party. To whom does he owe his loyalty? Should he be telling his clients, don't talk, so that people like John Ray don't sue you, or should he be encouraging them to talk and perform in front of Peacock so he could keep his fee? It's an inherent conflict.

Speaker 21:
[46:13] Well, I mean, if he thinks it's all in the best interest, and maybe he knows their financial situation, isn't that in their best interest in that context?

Speaker 24:
[46:21] No, not at all. Should you be able to go in and rob a bank because you're impoverished?

Speaker 21:
[46:25] No.

Speaker 24:
[46:26] Why is this different? Should you be able to commit immoral and unethical acts just because these people are allegedly impoverished?

Speaker 21:
[46:32] Well, immoral is not illegal. I know the optics are bad.

Speaker 24:
[46:36] That's where I think I've distinguished myself. I'm not getting paid a penny, and if I get any money for Benjamin, it's going to Benjamin. I'm not taking a percentage. We have that agreement. There's all the difference in the world.

Speaker 1:
[46:50] I asked Bob Macedonio, Asa's attorney, for his response on the fraud accusations. He categorically disagrees with John Ray, stating that in New York state, Asa could divorce anytime and does not need legal grounds for divorce. He reiterated that Asa and Victoria had no knowledge of any of the crimes, but even if they did, that there is no liability, explaining that if you know someone else has committed a crime, you wouldn't be liable for their actions. Mr. Macedonio is confident and looks forward to defending his clients in court against what he called a reckless lawsuit. We'll see how this all plays out, and whether or not Gloria Allred, who represents many of the other families, will also initiate civil action. On a completely different note, but going back to episode 1 of this podcast, while I was waiting outside to go into the courthouse for the plea hearing, I learned something else. I wish I could say I was joking, but I was just online. I'm back in the car right now heating up because it's 30 degrees and still nobody's here. One of the only people here was Grant Parpan, a reporter from Newsday. And he was telling me that in addition to the alleged plea of Rex Heuerman today, that there's another trial going on.

Speaker 5:
[48:19] Guess whose trial it is?

Speaker 1:
[48:22] Christopher Loeb's trial for a domestic violence incident where he assaulted his grandmother and broke her femur. This is going to be going on in a neighboring court room as Rex Heuerman is pleading guilty. The person who started this for me is here where this is ending. I'm kind of speechless, actually. It almost knocked me off my feet. The coincidence, the full circle moment of that, I struggled to believe it because 10 years ago, I sat across from Chris in 2016 at the Queen's Detention Facility where he was a cooperating witness in federal custody against James Burke and Tom Spoda. And for the civil rights violations, they perpetrated against him. Chris is no hero. What's hard, though, is to deny that he was instrumental in making that first domino fall. And that first domino was James Burke. And the case, it's hard to argue, absolutely had stalled under Burke. Had Burke not been taken out of power, we don't know how long the case would have stalled. We don't know how long he would have remained chief. We really don't. Because of the chaos at the courthouse, I wasn't able to see any of Chris' trial that day. But I went back the next day and caught the end of his hearing. That's a tale for another episode. All I can say is he didn't look good. At the time of this recording, we're about a week removed from being at that hearing, and I'm still processing it. It felt weird, mechanical, very formal. I know it's the professional thing to do, but having people we respect, like the judge and the district attorney, call Rex Heuermann sir and have to be cordial with him up there, something about it just feels so wrong. I mean, we know how evil he is, and he's admitted it. I was hoping to feel something that resembled, I don't know, catharsis, after all these years reporting on this case. And I'm hopeful that maybe the sentencing will feel differently for me. Perhaps hearing the victim's families address Rex directly will be an outlet for the agony the case has fostered for decades. Perhaps the judge will admonish him and call him out for the hurt he caused while handing out a multiple life sentence without the possibility of parole. And perhaps Rex himself may say something that matches the moment. Although I put no faith in him at all. Either way, I hope something gives because this day did not feel like closure. The Rex Heuermann sentencing is scheduled for June 17th, 2026. I plan to be there. If you know anything about Rex Heuermann or any of the Long Island Serial Killer victims and would like to contribute to our story, please send us an email at unraveledtips.gmail.com. Or you can contact me directly on Instagram at Alexis Linkletter. Unraveled is produced by Joke Productions 4ID. The executive producers and writers of this podcast are Joke Fincyoon, Biagio Messina, and myself, Alexis Linkletter. Executive producer 4ID is Annie Mangoni. Our editor is Caitlin Cleveland. Lisa Rebikoff is our associate producer. The music and score that you've heard in this podcast is by Biagio Messina. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It helps a lot when you subscribe, rate and review the podcasts that you enjoy listening to. Thank you for listening and thank you for your support.