transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:37] Welcome to Otherworld, I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode comes from a couple named Caro and Charlotte who live down in Arizona near the edge of the Navajo Nation, which is the largest Native American tribe and reservation in the United States, covering 27,000 square miles across Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. Now, I mention the reservation, not because I think the story is or is not connected to the Navajo. I mainly mention it because this whole thing takes place in an area of vast protected land and wilderness, an area that is larger than many states in the US. Caro and Charlotte's experience begins one night when they went outside to look for a cat, Benny, and ended up seeing something unidentifiable run across the street. This episode is called Benny and You're Listening to Otherworld.

Speaker 3:
[02:36] I'm Caro. I live in Northern Arizona, just like south of the Navajo Nation. There's a lot of Ponderosa pine forests. It's kind of like the high desert on the Colorado Plateau. There's a lot of diversity in the landscape around us. So you've got like high mountain peaks, and then also like we have the desert environments where it's a little bit less dense with vegetation and lower in elevation. So there's a lot of variety up here, and a lot of public land, so a lot of wide open space, both forested and not forested, but a lot of places where just a lot of people don't live. And you can just kind of go out there and be very alone if you want to be. My girlfriend Charlotte also lives in the area that I live. We've been dating for like about a year now, and we live pretty close to each other in the same town.

Speaker 1:
[03:35] My name is Charlotte. I'm originally from Virginia on the East Coast, and then I moved out to Arizona about six years ago originally for school. Being from the East Coast, I didn't have any really idea about West Coast lore, or especially being in the Four Corners region. And then moving out here, you learn pretty quickly that this is an area known for supernatural behavior. I think given the context of the land we're on, which originally was Indigenous land and still is Indigenous land. Since moving into this house, I've had weird experiences. Reference, my bedroom is at the front of the house. It directly faces my front yard. I get a weird sense being in that room, that I'm being watched at night. Not by anything in particular, and I crack it up to be that I'm just being paranoid because you're alone in a house and it's dark outside. But I never really liked my front yard very much. It's always made me feel weird at nighttime. In the day, it's fine, but for whatever reason, come nightfall, I don't want to be outside alone. I'll say that. This isn't related to this story, but I think it kind of speaks to just the weird energy of this house. I thrifted, it's always the dolls, I thrifted these three antique dolls, but they weren't like porcelain dolls. I don't really, I wouldn't get those. It was like a porcelain frog that had a dress on, and like one was a cow, and they were like little people all dressed up, and probably about a foot tall. Once I brought them in, I just had bad vibes. Like, I don't know how to describe it. It sounds dramatic, but I wasn't sleeping well, the dolls made me feel weird, and so I put them in this box, and I put them in my hallway, because I don't want them in my room anymore, until I could figure out if I'm being paranoid, or if there's something weird with them. But then, this is the freaky part, is one night, the dolls were stacked, sitting in this box, and there was one that was a bear that had a dress on, and it was, again, like a foot tall, so they're pretty tall and long, and its legs were out straight over the box, and I, Caro was over once again, and walked by to go to the bathroom, passing the dolls, and on their way back, they noticed that the bear had folded its leg up, like a four, like it was crossed, you know, like when you balance your ankle and your knee. And so they come in, they're like, Charlotte, that's not funny, and I'm like, what do you mean what's not funny? And they're like, with the dolls, and I was like, what are you talking about with the dolls? And they're like, you moved the leg. I was like, I didn't move the leg. What are you talking about? I go out in the hallway, I look at the dolls, and the bear had its leg up and crossed, and I swear I did not do that. I swear in my life I didn't do that. On the night that Caro came over, Benny was outside, my cat, and she's an indoor-outdoor cat. She's really good about coming inside when I call her. She's not super adventurous. I kind of joke that she wouldn't survive in a street fight, so she doesn't go very far. So on this night in particular, the fact that I was calling her to come in and she wasn't, I couldn't even see her, was really, really weird. And my first thought was, oh no, she got hit by a car or something, or she's very, very cute, so maybe someone took her and thinking that she was homeless. I was out there calling for her already when Caro pulled up. They parked on the street like they always do, walked up to the front of my driveway, which reaches the street, and they're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I'm trying to find Benny because she hasn't come in for some reason.

Speaker 3:
[07:22] That particular night, I was going over to her house. We were going to make dinner, and it was dark out already. It gets pretty dark early here in the winter. Her house itself is on a residential street, and it faces houses on the opposite side of the street. And if you're standing in front of her house and you look to the right and left, the street on the left continues into more of the neighborhood, more houses. And then if you look down the street to the right, it kind of opens up into hiking trails and the National Forest. So I was standing with my back to her house, and I was facing the house opposite. There was one window in that house that was lit up, illuminated from a light inside the house. And she was standing in front of me facing her house with her back to the house across the street. We both kind of are feeling, like I think individually we were feeling uneasy. The uneasiness for me personally, it felt like kind of, it felt different than any other time I've been outside. It just felt like, yeah, something was watching us or just like a really heavy pressing feeling was present. I didn't want to say anything because Charlotte had already kind of felt uneasiness about that part of the house, like outside in the front part of the house. And so I didn't want to, she had felt that before, so I didn't want to say anything. But then she voiced, she was like, there's something feels off out here, outside right now. And then she mentioned Benny, and that's kind of when everything started happening. It just happened really fast. And Charlotte was mentioning how Benny wasn't back. And so we both kind of started looking around because that was just really unusual for her. And just the general sense of the evening was already pretty heavy. So we looked to the left, or my left, down the street towards the area where all the other streets and houses were. You couldn't see her down that way. And then we both looked to our right at the same time. And it wasn't like a glance, but we just kind of were looking both sides of the street. We looked down to the end of the street that kind of opens up into that National Forest Hiking Trail area. And as we both looked over, we saw something run by.

Speaker 1:
[09:42] And so we're standing out there calling for Benny. We look to the left, she's not there. I look to the right, towards the end of the street, and there happens to be that street lamp, right over where the forest meets the road. And under that street lamp, I see this thing run across the street. And it wasn't in my peripheral or the corner of my eye to where I'm like, oh, that could have been a deer. Like I see deer all the time. I see animals all the time. But I see right in front of me this thing sprint across the street. I'd never seen anything like it before. It was too tall, because my brain instantly wanted to be like, oh, maybe it's a night jogger or like someone running really, really fast. But I would say, yeah, between like six or seven feet tall, I would say closer to seven. It was thin, and I don't like talking about it. I only told the story once before. It was too lanky. That was my big thing, is like, I don't like how lanky it was. Its limbs were too long. Its legs were too long. It was too thin. It didn't have any edges, is how I would describe it. It was too soft. It was like blurry almost. Not that I couldn't tell what its shape was, but that it didn't have edges like a person would. It did have a face, but it had like a head shape. It had shoulders and arms and legs that were too long, but it didn't have any defined edges to it. It was a light brown color, kind of like the color of like hand skin or a deer. And in terms of texture, I would say it was closer to really short fur if I had to guess. But again, it was kind of undefined, so I just know that it was a light brown color with no features. It sprinted across the street, and I saw it go from the forest to the end of the street house. I would say it probably was a total of maybe like three seconds from start to finish. But again, the speed at which it was running wasn't natural when it was running on two legs and then its arms were moving as if someone was running. But I know without a doubt, it wasn't a person. I think my brain also went to the fact that it would have been a naked person, which would have been really, really weird. It didn't have any clothes on. It was just this being that was light brown.

Speaker 3:
[12:16] So it was running from my side of the street towards the other side of the street to opposite her house. It was really thin. It was really, really fast. It also was on two feet, like a human. Kind of, it was really tall. And the edges of this thing were kind of like blurry. It was as clear that we were both witnessing something. It wasn't like out of the corner of your eye. It was going fast, but it seemed like the edges were blurry because you couldn't quite focus on it. Like every time you tried to make your eyes like adjust to what you were seeing, they just couldn't quite make out the edges. There were no sharp edges to this thing. It was about three houses away, so it was close enough to where we could see it, but it did run by pretty fast. I would say that it was at least over six feet. I couldn't quite tell if it was fur or skin. It went too fast to really make out those details. So we both witnessed that thing run by, and we instantly just looked back at each other, kind of like, what did we just see?

Speaker 1:
[13:36] So it runs across the street, and the way the house on the corner works is there's the house, and then where it meets the road, it has kind of these trees, and so it just ran into those trees, and I didn't see anything after that in terms of the end of the street. I looked at Caro, and my partner Caro looks back at me, and we're kind of like, what the hell was that? Just trying to go to what that could have been, could it have been a cursing, could it have been a night jogger or a deer, and just my brain can't find anything to reasonably convince myself that's what it was. So we're standing there, going, you know, what was that? I'm trying to rack my brain as to what it could be, but I also know that I still have to find Benny, and that night, I had already had an uneasy feeling to it. And the fact that I just saw something that I'm not able to explain, my fear as a cat mom went to my cat, and I'm like, now I really need to get my cat inside, because whatever that is, I need to be inside, and so does my cat. And Caro says they're going to head to the backyard and also look for Benny.

Speaker 3:
[14:50] It just, it was like everything happened so fast, but it was almost like we saw it run past. We looked at each other, like what the hell did we just see? And then, like I know my heart was beating fast, and I was looking at Charlotte's face, and she looked scared, and she was the one that was, that voice, like what did we just see? Like what was that? And as she said, what was that? I noticed over her shoulder, behind her was this house with, you know, this one window lit up, and as she said, you know, like, what was that? What did we just see? I, over her shoulder, I noticed this, like, shadow figure creeping across the window. In front of the window of the house across the street, it was kind of hanging up towards, like up against the wall, like it wanted to stay in the shadow, and then as soon as it crossed the window, it crossed it really quickly, and then it slumped back up against the wall, into the shadow. It looked, to me, that one looked like fully human, but just like a shadow figure, there were no like features. When it crossed in front of the window, it wasn't illuminated, it was still pitch black, it was still like fully a shadow. The size of the shadow figure, it was, I would say, about the same size as the thing that ran across the street, but it looked more human. So the thing that ran across the street, almost like extremities, like the hands and the feet, almost looked like I couldn't make out hands or feet. It almost just kind of tapered off into like a wrist, and tapered off into almost like a hoof. It almost kind of looked like a cross between a deer and a human, kind of with that short brown fur, and it ran across the street. And then when I saw this thing creeping across the window, it was similar size, but it was fully, like I fully thought there was a person outside just hanging in the shadows. But when it crossed in front of the window, and it wasn't illuminated, and it was still just pure black shadow, that's when I kind of realized. And it was creeping towards us. It wasn't creeping away. And it was clearly trying not to be seen, just hanging up against the wall. I saw that thing behind her, over her shoulder, as she was kind of asking me, what did we just see run across the street? And I chose to not say anything. I didn't want to scare her anymore, because I just assumed, okay, that maybe that was just a trick of my imagination. Maybe I saw something, but it wasn't out of the corner of my eye. I was directly looking at it. But I just kind of chose not to say anything, or just kind of chose to keep that to myself. And I was like, okay, let's look for Benny, and let's just get inside. Like, it just, we just need to, we just need to get out of the outdoors and into the safety of the house. And so she, Charlotte, stayed in the front yard calling for Benny, and I circled to the back of the house.

Speaker 2:
[18:05] Alright, we'll be right back after this quick break. Ladies and gentlemen, spring has officially arrived, and it's probably time for a little spring cleaning of your closet. I just did a major one myself, because I'm in the process of moving, and I got rid of so many pieces of old clothes that I never wear anymore. It's a good time for a wardrobe upgrade, and there's no better place to do that than Quince. Quince has been making high quality everyday essentials using premium materials, like 100% European linen. Their men's linen pants and shirts are lightweight and breathable. So this spring, get yourself some lightweight linen, and you will be looking like the talented Mr. Ripley by summertime, I promise you. My wife has the Quince ballet flats and insists they're the best leather flats she's ever owned. They were actually sold out for a while, but I just informed her that they're back, which is huge breaking news. I can't even tell you. The best part is that Quince's prices are 50 to 60% less than similar brands. So, refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/otherworld for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada as well, go to quince.com/otherworld for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com/otherworld.

Speaker 4:
[19:33] Hi, my name is Lloyd Lockridge, and I'm the host of a new podcast from Odyssey called Family Lore. In this podcast, I'm going to have people on to tell unusual and sometimes far-fetched stories about their families. I've heard my whole life that she invented the margarita. And then we're going to investigate those stories and find out how much of it is true.

Speaker 1:
[19:51] He gets a patent one month before the Wright brothers.

Speaker 2:
[19:54] Oh my God.

Speaker 4:
[19:55] Please follow and listen to Family Lore, an Odyssey podcast available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.

Speaker 2:
[20:03] This episode is sponsored by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know that Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery? They have over 2 million happy customers and every plant your home needs. From fruit and privacy trees to indoor plants, it's like having a local nursery anywhere you live, but with a selection of over 1,600 varieties that you really won't find anywhere else. I've been spending a lot of time in my yard lately, and Fast Growing Trees actually just sent me a young Meyer lemon tree. It's about two feet tall. I'm looking at it right now and is growing beautifully in a pot on my patio. I'm so excited for this thing to get bigger and eventually have some lemons. That I will happily eat Meyer lemons to be specific. So thank you to Fast Growing Trees for that. And by the way, Fast Growing Trees has plant experts on call seven days a week to help you plan your landscaping and answer any kind of care questions you might have. So spring has arrived. It's a great time to be planting. Right now, they have great deals on all sorts of spring planting essentials up to half off on select plants. And listeners of our show get 20% off their first purchase using the code Otherworld at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code Otherworld at checkout. fastgrowingtrees.com, use Otherworld to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate.

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Speaker 1:
[22:11] You left your girlfriend in front of the house. I did. What, my heart fell? I did. That's crazy.

Speaker 3:
[22:17] No, I think I was still kind of, like, in denial, like, of what we saw, especially because, like, I don't even know why I was in such denial. I think I just really didn't want to see what I was seeing. And so I was just telling myself that it wasn't real.

Speaker 1:
[22:37] They go ahead and head back there. I'm still up front. I'm facing the house directly across the street from me. And as I'm calling for Benny, I always say the same thing. It's like, Benny, Benny. I just call her name out. Sometimes I'll be like, come here, Benny. But for the most part, I just say her name because she comes pretty immediately. As I'm calling her name, I'm looking out at the house across the street from me, and I see this shadow, and it looks like a person, but it's just all black and dark. And it makes its way from the right, as I'm facing the house, across the yard, kind of squatting and slinking to blend in more with the shrubbery and the trees and the poles on their front porch and things like that. And my sight drops. I thought maybe it's a shadow from a car or something else. There weren't any cars around me. And as I'm watching it, it's very succinctly moving across the yard. And this is way more defined than the thing that ran across the street. It looks like a person to me. I just can't see them. It looks like a shadow person. It crossed my mind that maybe that was someone, like a real person in that yard. I hadn't right away thought that's for sure not a human being because this one looked more like a human, except they weren't, again, it wasn't like you could see them wearing a hoodie or black pants or a ski mask. It was very much just a shadow shaped like a person. And even though it's a dark street, it's not so dark that you can't see. Like, I can see the color of the neighbor's house. I could see their front porch just fine, like, you know, things like that. And I think if I hadn't seen the thing before that, maybe I would try and convince myself that's what it was and called the police or something. But because of that, paired with the fact that it didn't look like a person, and I saw that thing right before and where we live, I just knew in my gut that I didn't like this and I didn't want to be outside anymore. And I'm too freaked out that even though I want Benny inside, I was like, I need to go inside. So at this point, I go back into the house and I'm really scared. And I meet Caro inside. They had come back in from being in the backyard.

Speaker 3:
[24:58] I went to the back of the house, not my finest hour, but I was calling for Benny. And from the front of the house, I could hear Charlotte calling for Benny too. And she was saying, you know, like, Benny, Benny. I was also calling for Benny in the back of the house, but she didn't come, which was just like really unusual. And so we came into the house, and we were both just kind of discussing like, okay, there's something about outside, especially in the front of the house, that is just really, really wrong. Very, very briefly touched on the fact that we saw something run across the street down the street, and I hadn't mentioned the shadow figure yet to my girlfriend. Her face when she came back in looked scared, and she told me that when she was in the front of the yard calling for Benny across the street, she had seen the shadow figure creeping across the front yard, directly across the street from her house. It fully walked from one end of the neighbor's yard to the other, kind of creeping towards Charlotte's house. At that point, I was like, okay, that something's really off because that's exactly what I had seen. If you're standing with your back to Charlotte's house and you're looking across the street, there's a house on the right, that's where the window was, and then there's a house on the left, kind of almost directly across from Charlotte's house. I saw it cross in front of the window of this house on the right, and then she saw it cross in front of that second house that's directly across from her house. Yeah, so she said that it was like 20 feet away from her. And so when I saw it, it was probably like 25, 30 feet. But at this point, it had obviously gotten closer, directing its path towards Charlotte's house. I was kind of like stunned at first, and then I told her like, I saw the same thing behind you, creeping across the window. And that's when we were both like, okay, she like asked if we should go spend the night at my house instead. And I was kind of like, no, we can't even risk going outside to the car. At this point, there's something off. And we were both really worried about the fact that Benny was still missing.

Speaker 1:
[27:19] Caro and I exchanged those stories. I'm especially freaked out now, and it's pretty solidified that whatever that thing is, something's going on, like something's wrong, and I still need my cat inside. I'm thinking I need to go call her again from the front door. Maybe I'll try the backyard, and hopefully she'll come in that way, so I don't have to be in that front yard or near it. And right as I'm about to go do that again, we see that Benny is sprinting up towards the back of the house. Going out to the backyard from my house is a giant glass door, so we see Benny sprinting up from the backyard. She comes out of the darkness, and she is flying towards the house. The whole time she's running, she's constantly looking behind her to see if something is following her or maybe something's chasing her, and she's barely even looking inside the house. And it was like a cartoon where she skidded to a stop up to the door, and once she stops at the glass door, she's just still staring behind her, all puffed up in that cat defense mode. I run to the back door, I let her in, and my cat is really vocal. She's actually the most vocal cat I've ever met. She talks to you, a cat joke. You can have conversations with her. I don't know what she's saying, but she'll talk back. Normally, whenever I let Benny inside, she's instantly saying hello. She's talking to me. She's making her presence known. She's being a diva. And this time, I let her in. She's so freaked out. She sprints to hide under the couch. She's silent and doesn't say a word. She does one more look back to see what was out there, and then she hides. And it's just so unlike her, I think, is what is really freaky. I don't have a skittish cat. So the fact that she was so scared and silent really solidified for me again that something is outside and I don't want to be part of whatever it is.

Speaker 3:
[29:18] She came back in the glass door. She looked back the way she came one more time, and then she bolted under the couch. And she was silent. She usually, Benny is a talker. She's usually meowing or chattering, but she was like dead silent. And so we tried to call her and coax her out. And again, usually she would immediately come out, even if she'd gotten a little spooked, but she was not moving. She was like completely dead still and silent underneath the couch. We were just like extremely, extremely spooked at this point. And so we were standing, Charlotte was standing in the kitchen, and I was sitting on a bar stool directly across from her. And we were just like, okay, like that's final. We are not even opening the doors anymore. Like we're not opening windows, like we need to close the blinds, we're staying inside. At this point, we're just going to hunker down until the morning. It was just really quiet in the house. There was no music, there was no TV, Benny wasn't meowing or making noise. And Charlotte and I had just kind of like stopped talking at that point because we were just like both kind of processing what we had just seen. But again, I was sitting at the barstool facing Charlotte. I heard my girlfriend's voice say, Benny, are you there? From the front yard outside, I got instant chills because it wasn't like I heard somebody's voice, and I assumed it was Charlotte's voice. And it wasn't like I kind of put together what they were saying and made it up, but it was clear as day, my girlfriend's voice saying, Benny, are you there? It was her voice, but something about it was extremely sinister and mischievous. When I heard that, my head shot up. I just had chills, and I just felt like a pit in my stomach. And I met Eyes with Charlotte, and she was looking at me, and she was like, what? What happened? What's wrong? And I said, did you hear that? And she's like, I didn't hear anything. And so we were, you know, sitting in the same room. I was, you know, facing Charlotte, but I heard her voice outside calling for Benny, and she hadn't said a thing. It was almost like it was like almost correct, where Charlotte previously had been saying like, Benny, come here. But this thing said like, Benny, are you there? So it was almost like, like, why would Charlotte phrase it that way?

Speaker 1:
[31:54] Staying in the kitchen, leaning against the counter, Caro sitting across from me. We're just sitting in silence because we're both so freaked out, and Caro all of a sudden kind of shoots up. Their head was kind of down before, looking at me, we're just in this solemn moment, and all of a sudden they look super startled. They get those wide eyes, they look scared, they're pale. Is this something just like stun them? And I'm thinking like, what's wrong? Are you okay? Like, did you remember something or think of something? What happened? Because to me, nothing had happened. It was just completely silent in there, and they're like, did you hear that? I'm like, did I hear what? Like, you didn't hear that? I'm like, no. And they said, I just heard you outside. I'm like, what do you mean you heard me outside? I'm right here. And they go, I just heard Benny, are you there? Coming from the front yard. And it was clear as day you. And I'm thinking like, not only obviously it wasn't me, but that's not something I would say. That's not how I would call for Benny again. She's really easy to get inside. So normally I just call her name. And the fact that it was phrased, Benny, are you there? Is really weird to me. And she was already inside. So no one needed to be calling for her anymore. No one else was in the house. No one else, the neighbors were out or anything like that. And they don't know Benny very well. And Caro was really, really freaked out after that too. And hearing that, and which I would be as well. And the fact that I didn't hear anything at all. Not even like, oh, I heard mufflinging, couldn't make out what was said, but it was dead silent to me in there.

Speaker 3:
[33:32] And it was clearly her voice, but she didn't hear it. I was the only one who heard it. And it wasn't like, it wasn't faint for me. I clearly heard it coming from the front yard. We basically just decided, like, we don't even want to be in the kitchen where the windows, where the blinds can't be drawn because the big glass blinds on it. So we were like, let's just, we need to go to the bedroom, and we closed the curtains. And, you know, Benny wasn't going outside again. So we like closed all of her access to the outdoors as well. And there was just kind of an unspoken understanding of what we had seen and experienced. And I know it was really hard for both of us to fall asleep that night. We just tried not to talk about it. Yeah, we had a hard time falling asleep, and then we just, we went to sleep eventually. But that experience really stuck with us and kind of made me way, way, way more respectful and cautious of this area and the landscape and the tradition and myths and just, just everything. I took it way more seriously after that. I told a few of my co-workers and then just people who grew up here and have lived here for a very long time about this story. And they kind of, they all got that look in their face of like, we all kind of know what you experienced. I'm not going to say like the name of it because I know that it is, it is taboo to talk about. Yeah, obviously, there's no way of knowing like, for certain, what this thing was and what we experienced. But just based on the history of the land and where we're living and just things I've heard from other people's experiences, we have a pretty good idea of what it could have been. But there's no real way of knowing for sure what it was. Yeah, so I had known about just the aspects of shape-shifting. Different beings that are known to shape-shift in the Southwest. I knew like aspects of that just based on stories from people I've known that have had experiences. But I didn't know that mimicry was one aspect of it until I was talking to someone who had had an experience and they brought it up and mentioned that that was an aspect of those beings. And I've never like said for certain that's what we saw or experienced, but it's like the aspects all together kind of point to that potentially being it.

Speaker 1:
[36:19] I've only told this story to one other person, and that was my best friend. That's actually how I heard about this podcast. I hadn't listened before. I don't like telling this story because it freaks me out so much, and it took me a couple months to even tell her because I don't know what it could be, but given where we live, I can't not leave the possibility open that it could be something supernatural. There's a lot of history and lore in this area that leaves a lot of possibilities open. The fact, too, that I didn't hear something potentially making me, I think, gives credibility to that, or the possibility of it, because it doesn't really make sense that I would hear my own voice. I don't know if that would obviously freak you out, but I think it'd be easier to be like, wow, that sounded familiar or something. But for someone really close to you who spends a lot of time with you to be like, no, that 100% was your voice, I think says something, it would work better on someone else, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I know what your mind can do to you. I know you can convince yourself with things really easily. I like to approach things rationally, and then if I can't figure out anything to explain it, that's when I'm really like, I'm going to respect this for what it might be. I think if you can't prove something one way, then you have to be open to the possibility of it, in my opinion. Otherwise, you can be kind of naïve, and I don't want to do that. This experience, I wouldn't say it necessarily changed my views, but it definitely solidified them. If anything, I might be a bit more of a believer now than I was before. I might have been more skeptical of, like, that's part of a culture I'm not a part of, and so I'm really going to respect it. I'm really going to respect an option of what it could be, other options of what it could be. But now, I have to say I am more, maybe I am more a bit of a believer when it comes to the supernatural possibility of what that could have been. The story, I don't think is necessarily completely tied to the house. I think a lot has to do with the area we live in, being in Arizona, the West, the land, like I talked about before. But that paired with the weird story with the dolls, the cat, just the general ominous feeling I get, especially at nighttime here, I'm not going to renew the lease at this house, and I plan on moving.

Speaker 2:
[39:15] Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaefer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans and Juice Jackal. Our artwork is by Coldisac Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you could become a patron at patreon.com/otherworld. Our social media is at OtherworldPod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, and Hilary Shuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you can send us your stories at stories at otherworldpod.com. Benny, say hi.