transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:05] We're in the best position we've ever been in financially. It's all stemming from childhood maybe, and just this irrational fear of things, but I can't stop thinking about going broke, or losing a job, you know, all these different things.

Speaker 2:
[00:20] I wanna press on your words, irrational fear. What up, what up, what up? This is John with The Dr. John Delony Show, coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your life. Real people with real challenges. If you wanna be on this show, click the link in the show note, and Kelly will get you on. Let's go out to Cleveland, Ohio, and talk to Balake. Hey Blake, what's up, man?

Speaker 1:
[00:50] Hey Dr. John, how you doing?

Speaker 2:
[00:51] I'm good, brother, how are you?

Speaker 1:
[00:53] Pretty good, thanks. What's up? Appreciate you taking my call. I'm really looking for some insight and guidance about how I can overcome this crippling fear of spending money. It seems to really be taking a toll on my marriage a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[01:08] Yeah, man. Tell me about it.

Speaker 1:
[01:10] So, my wife and I have been married just over a year, about a year and a half, and- How old are you? We're both 34.

Speaker 2:
[01:18] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[01:19] And we're in the best position we've ever been in financially. I mean, we've been together for quite a long time. So, and it's just- it's one of those things where I just feel like it's all stemming from childhood maybe and just this irrational fear of things. But we're saving so much money. We have a lot of savings. We're in a healthy position financially yet I can't stop thinking about going broke or losing a job, all these different things.

Speaker 2:
[01:48] Dude, been there, homie. I want to press on your words, irrational fear. Tell me how money was growing up.

Speaker 1:
[01:59] Constant argument in the home. I mean, I'm the youngest of five boys and we, everybody, all of us were involved in adult problems. So, there was a lot of just craziness and a lot of fear of, you know, we're going to lose the house. My dad, you know, almost lost his job several times because of drunk driving. We just never had enough money to pay the bill. I mean, I take that back. We did when I was real young, everything was great. And then it was ripped away. So, it was like, I knew what security felt like at a young age and then all of a sudden I didn't.

Speaker 2:
[02:37] Yeah. How long have you been with your new wife?

Speaker 1:
[02:42] We've been together seven years.

Speaker 2:
[02:45] Seven years. Did your lived experience at home, especially with such an abrupt transition, going from a pretty safe place to a pretty chaotic place, did that play into how long it took you to decide, I'm going to go all in on you? Sometimes kids who grow up in pretty chaotic home environments, who then meet somebody, even somebody that over time they consider safe and somebody they want to spend the rest of their life with. The idea of putting both feet in one boat, till death do us part, you and me ride or die, is not a scary proposition in like scary movie kind of scary, but like in your nervous system, unwise, unsafe, unsmart, exposed. Is that part of the reason why it took seven years to formalize this? Or maybe not?

Speaker 1:
[03:42] It is. I mean, no, that's definitely a definitely part of it. Yeah, I would say there was a combination of different things. I needed to do some growing up. I needed to do certain things and whatnot. But it is a little bit of that letting go of that control and you know.

Speaker 2:
[03:57] So the scariest part for you is that the piece you're seeking is on the other side of control. And also there's a chance on the other side of control you get hurt. And so I can't guarantee you that it's going to work out on the other side of letting go. The other side of full trust. What I can guarantee you is you'll suffocate your relationship, yourself and those around you if you keep your hands closed so tightly on this side of control. I'll challenge you. I don't believe that what you're experiencing when it comes to saving money is irrational. It's burned into your nervous system. It's a lived experience. It's right for you. And so what I, and the reason I'm telling you that is, is part of healing here is going to be choosing to stop going to war with your body. If you think the feelings you have and the emotions you have are wrong, irrational, stupid, or misguided, then you have to fight yourself before you do the next right thing. If you can make the turn and I wish there was a more sophisticated word than this, a more like psychologically attuned word. If you'll practice what I'm about to say, it'll change your life. And that is this, literally taking your hand. I used to do it with a fist. I used to do it with a whole hand and now I can just do it. And you might see me on a stage someday doing this. I just take my forefinger and I scratch the inside of my thumbnail. That's often me feeling a thing and showing my body, I felt that. Thanks for trying to take care of me. I'm going to go do this now because I'm driving. And when you put yourself in that position where your body knows I'm driving, that's the path to healing, autonomy, right? Agency is the nerd word for it. When your body knows you're driving, it can begin to release some of these automatic nervous system triggers from your past. And here's what this looks like in real time. Can we go through some numbers real quick?

Speaker 1:
[06:19] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[06:20] What are you and your wife, what's your household income for a year?

Speaker 1:
[06:26] About 200.

Speaker 2:
[06:27] Okay. Who do y'all owe money to?

Speaker 1:
[06:32] We have a very modest mortgage and we have her car payment that, I mean, we can pay off, but yeah, that's a whole different story. Her work pays for it, so it's a whole different thing. But yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2:
[06:43] How much do you have in an emergency fund or just cash, liquid?

Speaker 1:
[06:48] Like 80.

Speaker 2:
[06:49] Okay. How much do you owe left on your mortgage?

Speaker 1:
[06:54] Like about 190. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[07:00] How secure is your job?

Speaker 1:
[07:04] As of lately, it's felt a little bit insecure. I've been at this particular company for 12 years, so it's never felt that way and it's honestly a job where it's, I feel underemployed. My wife tells me a lot like you should probably go get something that more equates your earning potential, but it's probably one of those things where I've stayed here because of its security. Yeah. I did leave for a year and a half to take an outside sales position that I ended up getting let go of because the company was really struggling. So I took that leap of faith to leave this comfort and it backfired. So now I'm back at the place I was at, and now it's feeling a little unstable again.

Speaker 2:
[07:54] Can I challenge you on something?

Speaker 1:
[07:55] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:56] If you grew up in a chaotic, unsafe, unpredictable, is probably a better word, home environment. You said you're the youngest of five brothers? The youngest of an alcoholic father?

Speaker 1:
[08:13] Yeah, both parents.

Speaker 2:
[08:14] Okay. Any sort of setback will be felt as I told you so. I want to suggest that you didn't get an I told you so. You got a hell yeah. Here's what I mean. Everything in your body orients towards, is there a safe place? And for you, safe means predictable. Yeah. And you chose to step out of predictability for something that might happen. Like I just said, on the other side of control, something great could happen. You could have had an outside sales and it could have exploded. You could have had your home and paid cash for your neighbor's home. And on the other side of control, it doesn't always work out. But when you grow up the way you did, every decision you make is judged not on strength and not on risk and not on the next right move. It's simply judged by, did you inconvenience or bother somebody else?

Speaker 1:
[09:23] Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[09:26] And so I would suggest you should be really, really proud of yourself for taking that step. And you learned, oh man, whenever I take this step again one day and take a risk, take a step through the tension and go to the other side of control. I've got cash in the bank. I got a wife who makes a great salary. We are going to take a risk, but not uncertain. We are not going to be homeless and we are not going to lose food. And also, I have some more information now, some more wisdom. So I know better questions to ask about the stability of where I might try to step into. And the cool thing about getting married, especially if you marry a ride or die, somebody who is not against you but on your team, you all two versus the world, is she is able to see things and experience things that you don't see. And that can be the beauty of things. Now there are some wives that will nag their husbands, you need to make more money because they want a bigger Tahoe or whatever. It doesn't sound like her at all. It sounds like she's saying, dude, I see so much more potential in you than you see in yourself.

Speaker 1:
[10:35] Yes, 100%.

Speaker 2:
[10:36] And that means you married well, brother. That's awesome.

Speaker 1:
[10:39] For sure.

Speaker 2:
[10:40] So here's the path with money. Everybody has a different risk profile, okay? For me, I'm pathological, meaning I can't sleep well. Like I literally have tracked my sleep. My sleep is the last one I owe people money. It's a constant threat to my nervous system. Just is. So my wife and I have lived in smaller houses. We've driven crumbier cars over the years because she loves me more than she loves shiny toys. And I have committed that when we hit certain thresholds and milestones, when we have this much savings, we have this much in retirement, when we have paid this big thing off, we're going to go on whatever vacations you want to go on. We're going to spend, like I want you to spend almost indiscriminately, like we budget our money, but like I want you to spend whatever you want on fill in the blank. And so what I've had to do is say, are you with me? And I had to do the work of identifying, this is where I feel most exposed. And then on the back end of that saying, okay, I'm going to practice. This sounds stupid for everybody listening to this who's really struggling financially right now. But I'm going to practice spending money. I'm going to budget money that with one intention, and that is practicing letting it go, practicing seeing how joyful my wife is because we went to dinner together. Feeling that, and then walking through it and saying, let's go do this, let's go do, you plan the vacation, where you want to go, let's go. We're going to intentionally put three date nights on the calendar, and two of them are going to be at nicer restaurants than Chili's. We'll have one Taco Bell night because everybody needs a Taco Bell night, but we're going to have two of them that are pretty nice places. I'm going to practice feeling that feeling, and then going to do the next right thing. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[12:42] Absolutely does.

Speaker 2:
[12:44] I wish it was more complex than that, but my promise is if you will practice this over time, your body will reorient your nervous system, your threat detection system, to one that is, oh, this guy's driving, he's in control.

Speaker 1:
[13:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[13:02] And especially if you give your wife a signal of some sort, a hand sign, a certain hug, like whatever, that lets her know, hey, I'm pretty anxious right now, or I'm nervous today, or I'm nervous this month, and she already has a roadmap for how she can love you in those moments. Dude, y'all are way, way ahead most. Otherwise, y'all end up fighting a fight about spending and saving. And that's not the real fight. The real fight is, am I safe?

Speaker 1:
[13:36] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[13:37] You know what I'm saying? I do. Can I tell you, brother, I'm real, real proud of you.

Speaker 1:
[13:43] Oh, thanks, man.

Speaker 2:
[13:44] And if you haven't already, a survivor's guilt is coming too. Are you already there?

Speaker 1:
[13:51] Pretty much.

Speaker 2:
[13:52] Because some of your brothers didn't make it like you did, did they?

Speaker 1:
[13:56] Really only one, to be honest.

Speaker 2:
[13:58] Okay, yeah. So as the survivors' guilt builds, and the feelings of guilt that you have, which I don't really think they're guilt, but it's just an easy word to put on them. As those feelings build, consider this. I want to put myself in the best situation with my marriage, with my mental and emotional health, and my finances, so that if the day comes, I need to help somebody that I care about, and I'm in a position to do so, right? It's like me switching from, I want to work out so I can get a six pack, and I can get ripped to, making the switch to, I want to exercise every day, so I feel my best, so I can show up and be the best husband and co-worker and dad I can be. And that shift changed everything for me. You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 1:
[14:48] Oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 2:
[14:49] I'm going to say no to all my brother's text messages and requests for money and hey man, oh, must be no. I'm going to say no to those things, so that when one of them needs some money down the road, needs some support or help down the road, I got you. And this is just part of changing your family tree, brother. For you, it might be that you and your wife work like bananas over the next 24 months to pay your house off. And everyone is going to say, I can't believe you're paying it down with the interest rate. They don't get a vote, dude. I call it my sleep tax. Right? Maybe that's not for you. Maybe that's just for me. Maybe that's for somebody else. But what is it going to take for you to say, okay, the risk profile is low enough for me to be able to breathe, and now we're going to lean into this? Because you're saving money, right?

Speaker 1:
[15:43] Oh, yeah. Like crazy. I mean, but in things we have spent good money on, they've always had like some kind of return, like, oh, I'll spend this big boatload of money, but it's going to be on finishing the basement because there's a return.

Speaker 2:
[15:56] Ah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[15:57] It's never just, oh yeah, let's go blow money on a cool vacation because there's no return except for just- Joy. I want that.

Speaker 2:
[16:06] Joy, life will live. I'll tell you, man, my buddy who's one of my best friends on planet, he's a banker, he, I remember like, I mean, I was just ranting and raving about the ROI on this particular house I'd bought and I'm going to do this, I'm going to keep it and blah, blah, blah, and flip it and move it here. And I remember he stopped me and he said, dude, get your wife a home. And I realized then I didn't know how to do that. Right? Like not everything needs to ROI in the short term or on a spreadsheet. There's different types of ROI, purpose, passion, meaning, laughter, fun. And if you've never experienced those or worse, if you've experienced those and gotten hit over the head because of them, you're just going to have to practice your way into them, my brother. Ask, I want you and your wife to have this conversation. I want you to go to dinner and I want you to ask her this one question, how do you want the house to feel every time I walk in? If y'all decide to have kids, how do we want the house to feel when all of us are in the house together? I want it to feel warm, I want it to feel laughter, I want you to be happy I'm home, all those things. I want you to be honest, here's what I want to feel when I walk in the house. I want you to reverse engineer what must be true, what actions are going to get you and your body towards these places of peace. But man, you are doing so good, dude. It's awesome. Thanks for the call, homie. Practice, practice, intentionality, and more practice. This is changing your family tree, my man. We come back, a man asks how to help his wife feel loved and supported after giving birth. All right, let's talk about love and not the I wrote you every day for a year kind of love, not that kind of nonsense love. I'm talking about a love that moves you to take care of people closest to you with action. I'm talking about term life from Zander Insurance. If you have anyone depending on you spouses, kids or anyone, you need term life insurance. My wife and I trust Zander for term life insurance. I've used them for years long before I started this show because I trust them. When it comes to term life, here's the deal. You should get a coverage of 10 to 12 times your annual income because that gives your family real protection so if the unthinkable happens, your family can spend their time grieving and being sad and not worrying about where their next meal is going to come from. Zander makes buying term life insurance simple, clear guidance and honest support. They help you figure out the right amount of coverage for you and your family, and they shop all the top companies to find you the best price. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying I love you, especially when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to zander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 and get term life insurance the right way. That's zander.com. All right, we're back. Hey, please, please take two seconds, hit the subscribe button, and help put this show up in more people's feed so more people can get access to these amazing brave conversations that folks have. Let's go to Dayton, Ohio and talk to Connor. Hey, Connor, what's up, man?

Speaker 3:
[19:31] I'm doing good. How are you?

Speaker 2:
[19:32] I'm good, brother. What's going on, man?

Speaker 3:
[19:35] So I was just wondering how I make my wife feel loved after she's given birth.

Speaker 2:
[19:43] I'm probably the wrong guy to ask on that one, dude. Have you asked her?

Speaker 3:
[19:48] Yeah, we've had conversations about it, but I just wanted to hear from an expert, I guess.

Speaker 2:
[19:54] Well, the expert on what your wife needs to feel loved is your wife. Tell me how the conversations have gone.

Speaker 3:
[20:02] So sometimes she'll just be in a moment of doubt, and she'll look at me and ask if I regret marrying her or regret having our son. And I understand that at some capacity, if she even has thoughts like that, then I've failed. And I truly, I love my wife, and I want her to feel loved, and I want her to be loved. And I don't know, it just makes me sad that she feels like that. So I've talked with her, I've asked her, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2:
[20:38] How soon after, how long ago was your baby born?

Speaker 3:
[20:43] Two months.

Speaker 2:
[20:44] Okay. So she's still very much in a postpartum timeframe. Okay. Correct. And so I would say one of the hardest challenges, like people talk about, I don't know how to wash bottles or what, you can learn all that stuff. The hardest part is staying present and staying sturdy, and choosing to hear certain things and not take them personally. Because that kind of statement, do you still love me? Are you still glad you married me? Is a bid for... Think of somebody with a blindfold on in the dark reaching out saying, are you still there? It's not an accusation, or it's not an indictment. You know what I'm saying? Yes. And dude, I failed at this miserably. I took every word my wife said personally. I took every rejection from my two, three, four, six, seven month old kid personally. I remember sobbing, dude. I remember banging on my car dashboard. What kind of loser father can't sue their four month old son, five month old son? And it took me a long time to realize, oh, that was not about me at all. It had nothing to do with me. And if I could go back, I would hug myself and say, bro, just stay present, stay here. It's not about you. And so here's a roadmap for you, OK? Is she seeing somebody?

Speaker 3:
[22:15] Like a therapist?

Speaker 2:
[22:17] Or has she been honest with her OBGYN about how she's kind of land in the plane coming back to postpartum? Man, it's tough, everybody experiences it different. And it can be a scary place. And if your wife knows, oh, I also have to manage my husband's emotions too, often she'll stop talking because she doesn't want to hurt you. And that stop talking, that action of stop talking, man, it becomes really internalized. And so sometimes people get counselors, sometimes people are real open and honest with their OBGYN, with their aftercare doctor, just to say like, hey, here's what I'm experiencing. And man, there's so many cool opportunities, treatments, medications in certain cases. There's so many different things to help land that plane. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4:
[23:08] Right. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[23:11] So I'd highly, highly, highly recommend that she talk to the doctor if she's struggling. Okay. If it's just a random this or that, what I would, not a random, that's not a dismissive, but if she's not struggling, if she's not wrestling with postpartum, if she's just like, her body's not where she wants it to be, she's doubting her skills as a new mother, which many, many, many, many people do. If she's going through that and she's just like literally reaching out in the dark center, you still here, you still here, a great avenue is to not look at this as the rest of your life, but to come up with a weekly touch point that is when everybody's good, or as good as you can be with a two-month-old, they just blew up your entire lives and say, hey, you're not feeling great. What's a couple of ways I can love you well? When you're really down, what's a way I can love you? I have a couple of guys that I hang out with that I talk to. You never have to worry about my emotional well-being right now. I'm sturdy as an oak. And I'm going to trust you that if I need to take something personally, you will say, I want you to take this one personally, right? You're giving each other road maps and you're not saying this is going to be the way it is forever because it's just not, man. This too shall pass. But it's going to be this way for seven days. And then next week, we're going to check in on Sunday nights or Monday morning or whatever. And we're going to do this again. What about this week? What about next week? And if she tells you, hey, dude, you're not helping enough around here. And you can say, okay, can you help me like I'm trying my best? I know it shouldn't be your job, but I just need help. What else needs to be done around here? I don't know how to sterilize bottles. I've never changed the diaper or whatever. And you choose not to take that personally as you're some kind of failure as a father, but instead you choose to say, I'm gonna be one of those dads that steps in the gap. And not only steps in the gap, but picks this house up from the foundation up. All men can wash dishes. All men can change diapers. All men can come home exhausted from work and take the baby because their wife is crumbling under the weight. That's just what good spouses and good partners do. Right? Right. And I'm just, I'm imploring you to not take the shift and change as she doesn't love you as much anymore. She's doubting your relationship now. You're a failed father. Man, this stuff, it's all so new. It's just about doing what's the next right thing. And she's gonna be the best guide for how you can love her well when she's struggling, when she's up, when she's down, whatever. Like, in that situation you just gave me, when my wife was two months postpartum, the greatest gift I could have given her in that moment is to say nothing and just go hug her, just go hold her. Because that wasn't a information question, it was a nervous system question.

Speaker 3:
[26:15] Right.

Speaker 2:
[26:16] You get what I'm saying?

Speaker 3:
[26:18] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[26:19] Makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[26:21] Are you scared? Are you nervous? Tell me what you're feeling.

Speaker 3:
[26:30] It's a lot. You know, I feel like I don't do enough for her. And I try to. I'm not as present as I should be with the baby. I'm willing to admit that.

Speaker 2:
[26:40] But I want you to lock your phone away. And you're going to feel incompetent. You're going to feel bored. And you're going to feel like you're wasting your time. And I'm telling you right now, these are magic, magic moments. If you'll lean into them through the boredom, through the frustration, through the, I can't make him stop crying, through the, I don't know what to do. Otherwise, you're going to spend your time in a shame spiral where I'm not helping like I should. You're going to pick up your phone to alleviate that. And then your kid's going to start crying. You're going to hand them back to her while she just needs five minutes in the shower by herself, 20 minutes in the shower alone, please God. And you're going to hand her the baby back and you go back to your phone and back to your phone. Put your phone away and force yourself into that discomfort. Okay?

Speaker 4:
[27:30] Right.

Speaker 2:
[27:30] Is that fair?

Speaker 4:
[27:32] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[27:33] Have you ever been a dad before?

Speaker 3:
[27:35] No.

Speaker 2:
[27:36] Have you ever been married to someone who just had a two-month-old, had their body explode and had a two-month-old?

Speaker 3:
[27:45] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[27:46] You've been married to somebody before?

Speaker 3:
[27:49] Oh, I thought you meant like this marriage. No, no, no, no. This is my first marriage.

Speaker 2:
[27:52] Okay. So, will you do me a huge favor?

Speaker 3:
[27:55] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[27:56] Cut yourself some slack, man. Give yourself some grace. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[28:02] I try.

Speaker 2:
[28:03] I know. Most men, and I'm looking at myself here, didn't even know enough to ask, how can I love you? What tasks need to be done? Maybe call two or three of your buddies and say, hey, what's 10 things I can do? Or call your buddies' wives that you're still close to. Call them and say, hey, I need 10 things that I'm going to walk in the door every day after work, and my phone's going to be away, and I'm going to knock these things out. And by the way, you're going to wash the clothes, you're going to be like, dude, I'm going to do all the laundry, and you're going to wash them with the wrong soap or whatever. And your wife's going to say, I can't believe you washed the wrong soap. You're going to have to choose and not take that personally and say, cool, learn something else. On to the next. You know what I'm saying? It's about showing up and just showing up and just showing up.

Speaker 4:
[28:47] Right.

Speaker 2:
[28:48] And it's so, it's so hard, man. It's so hard.

Speaker 4:
[28:54] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[28:55] But the best, the best person to tell you how you can love her is her. And I promise all the men listening, if your wife knows, I can't fully let myself be seen and known because my husband's going to take it personal and he's going to go into a temper tantrum or a shame spiral, whatever. They're going to stop telling you, they're going to stop letting themselves be seen and known. And when that happens, man, now y'all got real problems. And so I'm going to have a group of guys that I complain with, I'm going to have a group of guys that I ask questions to, I'm going to have a group of my buddies' wives who can help me like, hey, what are 10 things I need to be doing right now? Right now. And I'm going to knock them out. I'm going to be so tired, but she is too. We're both tired. And I'm going to keep grinding and grinding and grinding. And me and my wife are going to have at least one touch point a week. How can I love you this week? And your baby, your marriage, your wife, it will change that quickly in this season. It will level out in the several months and it will level out in several years. But right now it's changing minute by minute. So hey, I'm going to hook you up, dude. I'm going to send you and your and your wife, the Together app for a year for free. So hang on the line, homie. I'm going to hook you up. And it is just a small daily action back towards each other. One of them is to write a note of support and love for your spouse. I sat down at my desk this morning. I'm working on a writing project. I sat down. My wife had written the note and set it right there, dude. And it was, I can't tell you how awesome it was. Because me and my wife use the app too. So I'm going to send it to you. And it's just a daily action, a small bid back to each other. And as we're finding out from folks who are using this app all over the country, it makes all the difference. And so hang on the line, we're going to hook you up for it. If you're interested in the Together app, go to the app store and download it. It's awesome. It's super inexpensive for you and your spouse. Super inexpensive. We did that intentionally. And Android folks, we're on the way. We'll be right back. Every day on my show, I talk about boundaries. Listen, boundaries are not about being mean and boundaries are not about cutting everybody off. Boundaries are about being safe. And most of us do not have boundaries when it comes to sharing our data online. In fact, most of us don't even know that we are sharing it. We're actually not sharing it. It's being taken from us. And this is why I use and recommend DeleteMe. If someone can get online and find your home address, your phone number, pictures of your relatives where your kids go to school, this should not just be a part of modern life. This is your private life being sold in public. You would never let strangers walk through your house and start flipping through your photo albums, going through your phone and reading your mail. But that's what's happening online. Data brokers buy and sell your personal information to people you don't want having it. That's their whole business model, you, you're the product. DeleteMe goes to these sites, removes your information and checks month after month to keep it gone. DeleteMe handles it, saving you tons of time and tons of hassles. Protect your digital boundaries. Go to joindeleteeme.com/delony for 20% off an annual plan. That's joindeleteeme.com/delony. All right, let's go to H-Town and talk to Lynn. What's up, Lynn?

Speaker 4:
[32:17] Hello.

Speaker 2:
[32:17] What's up?

Speaker 4:
[32:20] Well, they told me to keep it short and to the point, so here's my question.

Speaker 2:
[32:24] Go for it. What you got?

Speaker 4:
[32:27] 50-year-old female, been with my husband 31 years, married 26. And he's been an alcoholic, a high, high-functioning alcoholic the whole time. And he finally decided after many years of me, my children, begging him, whatever, we finally gave up and he can do his own thing. Then he decided he was going to go to rehab. So I took him to rehab and the whole way down there, he was, you know, I just want us to get back together or reconnect. I just want you to love me and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's not been the deal I've been living for ever. And I kind of have moved on whether he's aware of it or not.

Speaker 2:
[33:16] What does that mean? What does that mean? Are you seeing somebody else?

Speaker 4:
[33:19] Absolutely not. That is the last thing that would ever happen.

Speaker 2:
[33:24] I'm done with man.

Speaker 4:
[33:26] I just, I don't need one.

Speaker 2:
[33:29] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[33:31] So, I have really lost, you know, lost respect for him a long time ago. Okay. And he's welcome to come home. He's welcome to be back in the house. He's welcome to be, you know, there and everything. But my question to you, I guess, is, is it mean of me just to try to stay the status quo and stay the platonic marriage that we've had for the last however long? Or should I, is it mean to expect that? Because I know he's going to want to expect something different when he gets back. Or do I just, you know, go ahead and give him a divorce so if he wants to move on, he can.

Speaker 2:
[34:15] I mean, it sounds like you've already left him.

Speaker 4:
[34:19] Years ago.

Speaker 2:
[34:20] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[34:20] It's only brand new information to him.

Speaker 2:
[34:26] But he was sick.

Speaker 4:
[34:28] Do what?

Speaker 2:
[34:29] He was sick.

Speaker 4:
[34:33] Yeah. But there was a lot of, in the meantime, I mean, like I said, he's high functioning, was able to keep his job, go to work every day and do. But years of, you know, him knowing he has a drinking problem and children asking him when they were as little as five and six, to not drink and do. And me being a 100 percent responsible, being the main breadwinner, provider for our children, everything. And I get that he was sick. But, and this may make me sound bad, after a while, you know, you don't care that they're sick. And so.

Speaker 2:
[35:25] So yes, to answer the question, for him to come home, and for him to come home to somebody who, you don't just not like him, you despise him. You despise what he's put you.

Speaker 4:
[35:41] I don't.

Speaker 2:
[35:43] It's worse, let me say it's worse than despise.

Speaker 4:
[35:46] I'm apathetic.

Speaker 2:
[35:47] That's it. You don't even care.

Speaker 4:
[35:49] No, I don't. I'm completely apathetic. My children have really suffered. My son had a drug overdose a year ago, and I have been begging for help with our son since he was little, and I was turned into the villain by him with our son, and I had to go pick up our son and carry him out of the house, literally carry him like a baby, 21 years old, and go to the emergency room to save his life, and my husband showed up for 20 minutes, and I stayed in the hospital with them for three days and got him 5150 to take care of him, and this is how my life has been with him. I have to take care of everything, and now that he wants to take care of his problem, now I'm supposed to flip the switch and be like, okay.

Speaker 2:
[36:41] No, not at all. I don't think that's as anyone is asking. I think you're mad that he's going to get help.

Speaker 4:
[36:51] Well, yeah, because now it's costing me money again.

Speaker 2:
[36:55] Yeah, listen, listen, listen, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, Lynn, your marriage has been over forever.

Speaker 4:
[37:00] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[37:02] Why won't you just like what you what you're not owning here is that you have chosen every minute of this too.

Speaker 4:
[37:11] Yes, I purposely did. When I had talked to my daughter when she was 14, I had taken her out for a girl's day and I was going to say, hey, you know, because I knew she would be the one to take it hard. And I approached divorcing her father and she lost it.

Speaker 2:
[37:31] I know, I know, but you outsourced your emotional, the next right thing, your emotional maturity onto a 14-year-old girl. That was not fair.

Speaker 4:
[37:39] Yes. No, it wasn't. I look back at that and I know 100 percent, but I knew that if she could be okay with it, I could do it and we could move on and have a better life. And she melted down and I said, okay, that is not something you will ever have to worry about. Don't worry about that. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[37:54] Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Do not, Lynn, do not put this on her.

Speaker 4:
[37:58] No, I'm not. What I'm saying is I would have left a long, long time ago.

Speaker 2:
[38:05] Okay, but hold on. But you didn't. And here we are.

Speaker 4:
[38:08] No, yes.

Speaker 2:
[38:09] Here we are.

Speaker 4:
[38:11] So here I am a lot of years later.

Speaker 2:
[38:13] You feel like you have burned your life to the ground.

Speaker 4:
[38:16] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[38:17] And you feel like he kept putting a kindling on the fire.

Speaker 4:
[38:21] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[38:21] So until you get over your anger with yourself, until you take ownership of I stayed, I stayed in the passenger seat on this roller coaster, I could have got out at any time. But I chose to stay here. I chose to stay here.

Speaker 4:
[38:41] Yep. Yes, I did.

Speaker 2:
[38:43] And until you take co-responsibility for the world you all co-created. Now if he was on the phone, 100%. He should have been there for his family, should have been there for his kids, should have done what he was drinking a long time ago.

Speaker 4:
[38:54] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[38:54] And he didn't.

Speaker 4:
[38:56] No, I was, I have my equal fair share.

Speaker 2:
[38:59] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[38:59] I was hard on my kids. I was everything else. So, no, they're 100%, I have been that way, not...

Speaker 2:
[39:10] Okay. But listen, if he was a stranger, just somebody you worked with, you would treat him with more grace and gratitude than you're treating him right now. If he was a homeless person on the side of the road in downtown Houston and you talked to him for two minutes and they're like, hey, I just got out of recovery. I blew my whole family up and I decided like I want more for their life. I want more for my life. You would high five him. But the fact that you're mad that he's going to get help.

Speaker 4:
[39:45] No, I'm not. I'm mad that it's too little, too late.

Speaker 2:
[39:51] If that's the way you want to see it, then yes, it's cruel for you to welcome him back home and say, I'm still going to remain cut off. I'm not going to listen to you walk through your guilt and your pain and your shame and regret. I will not be here for you. I haven't been here for you for years. You weren't here for me. Yes, that's cruel.

Speaker 4:
[40:16] That's what I need to know. I mean, I do not wish him ill will. I do not wish anything bad for him at all.

Speaker 2:
[40:25] I don't believe you. I think you, I, I, I really don't.

Speaker 4:
[40:29] I really would love for him to have a wonderful life. I think we both cheated each other. I really do. I think he could have had a much better existence than I could have. And we both messed up by.

Speaker 2:
[40:42] And so it's blowing it up. It is ending it. Is that the best shot?

Speaker 4:
[40:48] I don't, okay. This sounds terrible. I don't have one ounce of respect for him.

Speaker 2:
[40:54] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[40:56] Not one ounce. There's nothing that he provides our family that I need. And I think he should work on his relationship with his kids and not worry about me.

Speaker 2:
[41:15] Okay. Like you've been divorced from him for a long, long, long time. And your feeling of superiority over him is, yeah, it's going to be a tough shadow for him to heal out from underneath. Because you think you're so much better than him.

Speaker 4:
[41:33] I will not disagree because of the stuff that's gone on.

Speaker 2:
[41:36] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[41:37] Yeah. I know that, I know it's awful.

Speaker 2:
[41:40] No, no, no, you're being honest and I want to honor you for being honest, for telling the truth.

Speaker 4:
[41:45] Yeah, I think, I don't think that morally I'm a better person. I'm just.

Speaker 2:
[41:53] I think you do. I mean, you showed up for your kids and he didn't. I would make a moral snap judgment on somebody in that situation.

Speaker 4:
[42:00] Yeah. And that's just many times. And that's why he said to me the other day when he called from rehab and said, you know, I called our daughter and she was just like, whatever, and she's very apathetic as well. My son is kind of like, well, just do what you got to do and everybody. And he's like, he can't understand why we're all not like jumping for joy patting them on the back. And it's like, we've been begging you for years. And so now that you were the one uncomfortable, now that you were the one struggling physically, and that's the only reason you chose to go, that's the reason you went. Not because of us, not because of your kids, not because of anything else, because you were physically struggling.

Speaker 2:
[42:47] And the animosity baked into the stories you've made up about why he does what he does?

Speaker 4:
[42:54] What do you mean?

Speaker 2:
[43:01] I guess having spent my whole career sitting with folks struggling with addiction, losing everything. Man, I've gotten mad and I've gotten pissed off, and I made some commitments to myself. I've got an addictive personality. I'm a pretty boring hang these days, because I've seen what it does on the other side. But man, I just, I have nothing but heartbreaking compassion for folks in the throes of addiction.

Speaker 4:
[43:32] Yes, I have helped all my family members, all of them. And I've helped him the exact same way I've helped them.

Speaker 2:
[43:41] But right now, but listen to me, you're addicted to anger and you're addicted to righteousness and you're addicted to rage. And I'm telling you-

Speaker 4:
[43:47] What I'm addicted to is the last three weeks have been the best three weeks I've had in a long time.

Speaker 2:
[43:53] Great. You've had peace.

Speaker 4:
[43:55] Yes. I'm not mad. I'm just don't- I'm too far past to go back to try to have a romantic relationship with him.

Speaker 2:
[44:07] Okay.

Speaker 4:
[44:09] And so, you know-

Speaker 2:
[44:11] I think the fair thing, not the fair, when I'm going to talk about fair, I think a compassionate thing to do would be to let him know while he's surrounded by care and support.

Speaker 4:
[44:23] Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[44:27] Because at least he could hear that news face to face from you and then have a team of rehab specialists and sobriety specialist and hopefully mental and medical care, mental support and medical care around him while he metabolizes that. And by the way, part of treatment-

Speaker 4:
[44:48] Because I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want his life to be bad. I really don't. I know you think I do. I promise you, I don't. I would love for him to go have a happy life. If he found somebody else and was thrilled and tickled, I would be tickled for him. I don't have, I don't hate him. I don't anything. I really do wish the best for him. As long as it doesn't include me doing more work for him, like I've always been doing. Okay. I'm burnt out.

Speaker 2:
[45:29] Yeah, I hear it. And I don't blame me for being burnt out. I don't blame me for being exhausted. I don't blame you for being mad.

Speaker 4:
[45:44] So the best thing for me to do would be to tell him before he comes home.

Speaker 2:
[45:49] I can't tell you what the next right move is for you. This is too messy and you're too mad. You're too angry. I can tell you-

Speaker 4:
[45:58] I promise I'm not mad. I promise I'm not mad.

Speaker 2:
[46:04] I can only tell you the most compassionate thing.

Speaker 4:
[46:07] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[46:08] By the way, I assure you if that rehab program is worth its salt, is an inpatient program, how long has he gone for? 30 days, 60 days?

Speaker 4:
[46:18] 45.

Speaker 2:
[46:19] 45. I promise you there'll be more self-loathing going on in there than you can possibly wrap your head around.

Speaker 4:
[46:25] Oh yeah. And I don't want to add to it. I swear to God, I don't.

Speaker 2:
[46:28] It's not about adding to it. It's not about adding to it.

Speaker 4:
[46:32] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[46:32] Okay. It's not about that. He will have to learn there are some things when it comes to making amends. I have to make amends to somebody and I can't own how they choose to respond to it. And that might come with a ton of grief and heartache, guilt, shame, all that. What I'm telling you is the most compassionate thing for somebody as fragile as his situation is would be to give him hard news while he's supported by care. And honestly, the most compassionate thing you could do would be to call his head person, the person in charge, the social worker in charge of his care.

Speaker 4:
[47:12] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[47:14] And say, this is the decision I have made. I'm choosing this. Wins the best time.

Speaker 4:
[47:21] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[47:22] And you will not be the first person to have called the rehab facility to say, I'm filing.

Speaker 4:
[47:27] Okay. Yeah. That's what I wanted to know is, is it bad just to let him come back and stay status quo the way we've been for 15 years?

Speaker 2:
[47:41] It will be impossible.

Speaker 4:
[47:43] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[47:44] He'll try to plug in. He'll try to connect, which is what human beings do. And you will be shut off and he'll go right back to either the old addictive behaviors that covered up a home and a life and a self that he couldn't connect to, or he'll find new ones.

Speaker 4:
[48:05] Okay. Well, that is exactly what I wanted to know. That is, because like I said, if he can get sober and stay sober, there's nothing better in the world for my children, nothing. And so if I would be, you know, coming back doing the same old same old, and that would throw him back into bad behavior, that's not going to help my children. Because they're finally old enough. They're 22 and 25. They know. They're now adults. They can deal with it if parents aren't together.

Speaker 2:
[48:53] I hate that it ends this way for y'all.

Speaker 4:
[48:55] Well, I tell you what, we should have never got married, but I did get my children out of it. So I'm thrilled with that. I'm not shocked that it's ending this way. So that was my question is no, and you answered it. Don't come home to status quo because that, if nothing changes, nothing changes. It's dishonest.

Speaker 2:
[49:23] We're dishonest.

Speaker 4:
[49:23] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[49:24] It's cruel.

Speaker 4:
[49:24] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[49:25] Yeah. So yeah, I wish you guys the best in what you're doing. We'll be right back. Hey, let's talk about Helix. For years, I thought that sleep was for losers, for weak people. I just thought you had to push and push and push and snap into a slim gym and just keep ignoring sleep. And of course I crashed. It's nonsense. When you're exhausted, when you haven't slept well, everything feels heavier, harder and more complex. Deep sleep is critical to your brain health, to your body's health and to controlling wild emotional responses. If you got big feelings like me, one of the greatest things you can do for yourself is get good sleep. And when I finally started taking my sleep seriously, everything changed for me. And one of the big things that helped my sleep was switching to a Helix mattress. I've had mine for a couple of years now and I track my sleep. Helix has made a huge difference in my deep sleep and especially in my REM sleep. Helix can also make a difference for you. Go online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes and they're gonna match you with the perfect mattress just for how you actually sleep. It ships straight to your door, you get a 120 night sleep trial and it's backed by a limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixsleep.com/delony and get 20% off site wide during their spring savings event. That's helixsleep.com/delony for 20% off. And be sure to tell them that you heard about their amazing mattresses right here on The Dr. John Delony Show. With Helix, better sleep starts right now. All right, we're back. All right, Kelly.

Speaker 5:
[51:08] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[51:08] Let's talk about that last call. What do you think?

Speaker 5:
[51:12] I think she's just done.

Speaker 2:
[51:13] Oh, I think she made that clear. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[51:16] But I don't necessarily see that she wants him to hurt him or anything like that. I think she's passed that because there comes a point when you're angry and you want to hurt somebody, there's still a passion there of some sort. She has passed that point because she has lived in 25 years. Yes, that she co-created, 100 percent. I think she took responsibility for that.

Speaker 2:
[51:37] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[51:38] But it's to the point now where it's like, there comes a point when it's too little, too late. When you've gotten to a point, you can't get past anymore, but she's just done.

Speaker 2:
[51:49] Yeah. I 100 percent understand and agree with that. What I struggle with is folks who, A, as we talked about in the call, she asked her 14-year-old's permission. I think that's a no-go. I have a hard choice to make. I'm going to put on my kit. The call shifted, I felt shipped over time from, I can't believe he's doing this now. Who does he think he is? After all these years of going through all this, now he's gonna go get well and healed, and okay. And maybe there's a tension there between, I'm angry now, why now? And also when we have hard decisions to make, she looped all the way back to, we should never even have gotten married. Well, now we're into some revisionist history, we're going all the way back, right? And at the same time, yeah, there's just a cruelty to, I got so mad this many years ago that I decided I'm just gonna plant my flag in the ground, my kids are gonna base in this, he's gonna base in this, I'm gonna base in this, and I'm gonna get madder and madder and madder and madder. And to the point of, yeah, burning off the endings of all of my emotions and feelings to where I feel nothing, except now I feel peace because he's out of the house, which I have no doubt about that, right? And so I guess what I hate is I hate that it took getting here.

Speaker 5:
[53:34] Yeah, I definitely agree. And you know, I also understand the, you keep thinking it'll change and you look up and 20 years have gone by.

Speaker 2:
[53:46] I get that.

Speaker 5:
[53:46] Right. And the kids are, you know, growing up and you're just trying to function and get through and on a daily basis. And she probably spent a lot of time getting between him and the kids and trying to make everything better.

Speaker 2:
[54:01] Yeah, it's been a mess forever.

Speaker 5:
[54:03] Yeah. And then like you said, you look up and it's been 20 years. And then it's like, now that I'm to this point, now you're getting help. It doesn't make it right, but I can see her feelings of like, seriously?

Speaker 2:
[54:11] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[54:12] Now?

Speaker 2:
[54:12] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[54:13] And the fact that I, you know, it kind of sounded like based on reading her email, that does he feel like, well, I'm getting help now so everything will be better. And it's like.

Speaker 2:
[54:22] Well, that's what people think day two and day three, right? And then they get into it. Hopefully it's a good facility and a good team around him, but you get into it and you realize, oh no, no, no, everything is different now and everything is revealed, right? They slowly peel the cataract of the wake of hurt and pain and damage you've caused. All those that loved you and that you loved. And that's a heavy, overwhelming thing. I mean, that's extraordinary. I just got a lot of compassion for people that carry that. And I have a ton of compassion for people who are trying to love people in the throes of addiction. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Yeah, it's just messy. Not every call on the show has a happy ending. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. And on those moments when you don't know what to do or you're burnt out or you're fried or you're angry or whatever, or you're just done. That's the moments when I think we have to be intentional about choosing compassion, choosing kindness and choosing dignity, even if other people haven't shown it. And I'm going to do the most gracious. I'm going to do the next hard, hard thing that I know is going to hurt you, but I'm going to do it in the most gracious, compassionate way I can. And I'm not going to do another 20 years of choosing this life with someone I don't have any feelings for and blame you for. So yeah, it's a tough one, tough, tough, tough one. Good call, good pick, Kelly. Way to bring up a room. Next show, Kelly's going to set me on fire just to see what it feels like. Love you guys, bye.