transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of Eleven22 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

Speaker 2:
[00:17] All right. Pastor Joby, I want to start with a quote from Charles Spurgeon.

Speaker 3:
[00:21] Oh, good. Spurge.

Speaker 2:
[00:23] That's a good place to start. Great, here's the quote. Great faith is not always loud or public. Sometimes it is a trembling hand stretched out in desperation.

Speaker 3:
[00:37] Amen.

Speaker 2:
[00:39] So in this section of Matthew 9, Jesus is continuing to demonstrate his authority. That word came up a little bit before this. And I'm struck by the phrase that he responds to people with often, not just here, your faith has made you well. And it made me think about two different types of people who come to Jesus. Mostly the Pharisees or scribes would come to him, and they're not coming to him with faith or desperation. The motive of the heart is like, I got a bone to pick with you or I want to start a fight or a debate. But then Jesus recognizes when people, and obviously in this one, the two people that come to him, they're coming from a motivation of faith. And there's this, you have a gray quote tonight about need, which I want to talk about, but just at the outset, why do you think, can we talk about that difference? Like we've talked a lot about motives, the motive of why you come to Jesus with a question or with asking him to do something for you, skepticism, criticism versus what we're seeing here. Your faith has saved you or healed you.

Speaker 3:
[01:54] So there's a few different responses to Jesus. Everybody has the same information. I mean, there he is. And it is their response. This is like the parable of the sower kind of thing. So both Jairus and the woman, I mean, they come on their knees in humility. They are poor in spirit. So that is the beginning of everything, right? Some people scoffed, like the Pharisees who have been studying and I mean, the way the Pharisee party got started is that they were going to study the word of God, know it so well. And then Pharisee means separated ones. They were going to be so untainted by this filthy world that when the Messiah showed up on the scene, they're going to be first in line. Like surely we're going to know who he is first. It should be throwing a party and instead they're going to fit because he doesn't fit. So I think when it says while he was saying these things, so the message that he just gave about wine skins and patches is demonstrated in the miracles that he performs. He didn't come to like patch up your tattered life. Like he pulls up next to you in the car and he doesn't say, let me fix up your car, he says get in my ride. It's perfect. That's it. And that's how they come. They both come poor in spirit. And I mean, that's what faith is. And what's beautiful about faith is it is not the amount that you have, but it's where you put it that matters. I mean, mustard seed size faith moves mountains because it's the mountain mover that's doing the mountain moving, not the amount of your faith. And so primarily the Pharisees, their faith is in themselves. So some scoffed, some ignored him. And think about that. There's a crowd in Capernaum and the savory of the universe is standing there in the middle of it. And you know how many people are like, man, I'm busy. I got stuff to do. I gotta go pick up my kids from school and I got, you know, whatever. Others just wanted to be entertained. Like they're in the crowd and they think it's cool because he's calm storms and he's going to walk on water. You know, he's going to do cool stuff. And then some believe and the ones that believe, everything changes.

Speaker 4:
[04:21] I think there's something powerful about Matthew's account to what's happening here. So when Jesus refers, you know, he makes a statement about being the bridegroom, that's a massive statement to make because they would have known Hosea, Ezekiel, Isaiah. And so here Jesus goes, hey, I am he. Because they would have understood the bridegroom to be God. And he's going, no, no, no, I'm the same person. I think it's like, it's one of those words like I hear, I would have been there and gone, well, I think I would have heard everything that he said. And then in the end go, hold on Jesus, did you just say, because if you did, then that means you are making the claim that you were God. Like this is who you are. And so with that comes everything else that you would believe about who God is and the power and the authority that he has. So it's a, it's a significant statement to make and he makes it. And then like, rightly so, what you say, what follows is the evidence of that. That there's, now is not the time to mourn, oh, I'm going to show you.

Speaker 3:
[05:24] Yeah. And he's stacking up the claims to be God because he previously, he calls himself the son of man.

Speaker 4:
[05:29] Yep.

Speaker 3:
[05:30] Anybody that says Jesus never claimed to be God, they just, I mean, I don't want to be too insulting, but you got to stay coloring books. Like you have to understand, he's a first century Hebrew speaking to that culture in their language. And so all he's doing is over and over and over. He just grabs the Messianic titles and says, that's me. He does it over and over and over. So even the most blatant one, this is the easiest to teach, is seven times in the Gospel of John, which is the number of completion Jesus makes I am statements. Anybody that would read that or hear that, be like, that's number seven, the number of completion. So you're saying you are completely I am.

Speaker 4:
[06:17] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[06:20] My favorite of those is when the soldiers come to arrest Jesus, and we're looking for Jesus, and he says, I am he, and they all fall over. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 4:
[06:28] Yep.

Speaker 3:
[06:29] I love that.

Speaker 2:
[06:31] Can you help me with something, pastor? So let's just say somebody's read the Bible a little bit. And faith, we read in Ephesians 2, faith is a gift of God, it's not your own doing. So then how can Jesus apparently congratulate people for having faith and coming to him with faith? Is that confusing or?

Speaker 3:
[06:53] Explain the word congratulate.

Speaker 2:
[06:58] He identifies their motive as coming to him with faith. And that's what it feels like to me. He seems to be saying, hey, your faith has healed you.

Speaker 3:
[07:09] He did say that.

Speaker 2:
[07:12] Which seems to imply some people might come to him with different motives and then he would not say that. But he gives them that faith, right?

Speaker 3:
[07:21] Correct. So if you read that in context, right? So you're going to get that we're saved by grace through faith and not of our works, that's none of us boast, because the faith that we have is given to us by God. In that same context, we are also called God's workmanship and we have been saved two goods works. So in our reformed tribe, praise God for all that, but there is still, there's not free will, I don't like that word, that word's not in the Bible, and you can't will yourself to live longer, be taller, so you don't really have free will, although you do have agency as an image bearer of God. I like that word better.

Speaker 2:
[08:00] Responsibility is a good one too.

Speaker 3:
[08:02] Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, accountability is a Bible word too, right? So we will be held accountable for all the things that we do. Okay. So the reason, why does she believe Malachi 4? So this, she's been given, God has granted her eyes to see, reading the scripture, right? The faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of Christ. So she reads these words, she hears Malachi 4, and that faith is a gift of God to her, to open her eyes, to see what is actually real, which is this is the Son of Righteousness. And then she acts on that faith. One of the things you'll see over and over and over in the scriptures is it's not like Jesus just walks around and heals people without their participation, you know, that we respond as image bearers of God, as autonomous, responsible beings. We respond though, we can't, she would not reach out to him if she was not drawn to him by the faith given to her by God.

Speaker 4:
[09:20] It's the, you did such an incredible job of taking us back to the Old Testament to get us to see what led her to this place. So Malachi 4 is the promise, Numbers 15 is the commandment. And so in Numbers 15, if you were to summarize it, there is a call to see, to remember and to obey. And so C, this physical, you know, this thing here that is pointing us to the faithfulness of God, because it wasn't on her faithfulness. She did nothing, but it's on the faithfulness of God. So C, remember, well, you can only remember if you know. So 1 Corinthians 10.1 Paul says, man, I don't want you to be unaware. You know, I don't want you to be ignorant. And I think a lot of the issues is that people don't know. Like you don't even know what the word says. So it's clear that she saw, she had read it, she remembered, and then now she's just obeying. And so Jesus recognizes that. And so what's happening in this account here is she is standing right in the middle of Numbers 15 and Malachi 4.

Speaker 3:
[10:33] I also think if I could try to get into her mind a little bit, there had to be a battle of faith and fear going on there.

Speaker 4:
[10:40] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[10:41] Right. I mean, cause she, when she does get healed and busted, she's afraid, but not the good kind. Not like the fear of the Lord. And so I think maybe a part of what Jesus is congratulating her or saying, well done on is way to listen to the voice of God in your life instead of the voice of man. So the fear of condemnation or you're not chasing after the applause of man. Like you trust what I say to you over what the world, your flesh or the enemy is saying.

Speaker 2:
[11:14] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[11:14] Cause they're both speaking.

Speaker 2:
[11:18] You said something that I was like, say it again. When your need exceeds your ego, you hit your knees and surrender.

Speaker 3:
[11:27] Yeah, it's not until then, man.

Speaker 2:
[11:29] Yeah. I was talking to a guy who I think had emailed you and he's telling me his testimony. And God has spared his life multiple times. And he's like, I just don't know if I'm ready. If I can get past the, is the resurrection real and stuff? I'm like, well, you should read a book called If the Tomb is Empty. And anything's possible. And, and I was just like, well, if you don't think you need to surrender, then you won't. So, and that's kind of like, it reminded me of your evangelism strategy you were talking about.

Speaker 3:
[12:02] Yeah, it's hard to talk people into need, you know? I mean, that's why I love the Malachi passage, man. The day the Lord is coming and bro, this frigging hell fire and the only two categories of people that are going to get torched are evil doers and the arrogant.

Speaker 4:
[12:19] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[12:20] So, yeah, if you, are you an evil doer?

Speaker 4:
[12:24] Uh-huh.

Speaker 3:
[12:25] Then I'm screwed. And then if you go, I'm not, that might be the most arrogant thing I've ever heard in my life. So everybody is going to need this. You see, the reality is, is that we will all, every knee will bow, every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. The question is Lord of what? He'll either be the Lord of your salvation or your damnation, but he is Lord.

Speaker 2:
[12:47] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[12:48] And if you don't think you need a savior, you're going to get a judge. That's it, man.

Speaker 2:
[12:54] You read that quote from Jonathan Edwards and I can remember being in high school and somebody giving a very terrible explanation of the difference between a Calvinist and an Arminian and referencing sinners in the hands of an angry God in a not positive way.

Speaker 3:
[13:14] Did he read the sermon?

Speaker 2:
[13:15] I don't think so. Probably not. If you've read that, it's terrible but beautiful. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[13:24] Do you know how he delivered it? Do you know this? It's a manuscript that he read in a low tone from the pulpit that started an awakening. He was not screaming and yelling. And it's really pleading is what it is. It's like, I don't think you understand. You're hanging by a spiderweb over the flames of hell. And it is the mercy of God that keeps you today from judgment. And when he says, we're sinners in the hands of an angry God, our sin has angered God. God is love and it is our sin that angers him. And the reason that he does not act on it, the reason he is slow to anger is because he's also merciful. It is his merciful, loving, grace-filled hands that is holding every single person alive up right now. And the reality is that the good news for us, if you're a believer, this is as close to hell as we ever get, man. This is it. And the terrible news is, if you haven't put your faith in Jesus, this is as close to heaven as you'll ever be, bro.

Speaker 2:
[14:44] And you've said before that anger is, how do you say it? Love?

Speaker 3:
[14:50] Anger is just, it's love in action, protecting what you love.

Speaker 2:
[14:54] Correct.

Speaker 3:
[14:54] So there's righteous anger, like Jesus flipping the tables. And then there's unrighteous, because when I am unrighteously angry, which is more often than not, because I got a lot of growing to do, it's because the thing that I'm trying to protect is me and my ego or my reputation.

Speaker 4:
[15:13] I remember hearing this quote. I had just come to faith. And John Piper, I was listening to a sermon by John Piper, and he quoted it, and I struggled with it. I was like, but I don't, how can God be angry? Like, isn't He always loving? And it just kind of, I came to the realization is because I don't, I don't revere Him. I don't see Him for who He truly is. And then because of that, I don't see my sin for what it truly is. And so Malachi 4, like really paints this picture of like, guys, this is who He is. This is who you are. And if you don't turn to Him, this is what's going to happen. So I feel like we've lost, there's two things in our kind of context is there is a, people no longer fear God. And then the other side of that is people just aren't desperate anymore. Like there's no desperation because we have almost everything that we need. So why do I need to be desperate? And so when those two collide, that's where we see this happen.

Speaker 3:
[16:14] Yeah, I don't, I mean, you know, I obviously preach grace, wrote a whole book on it. But I don't want us to lose our all of God. And not, I'm not talking about butterflies and canyons. I'm talking about the supreme, righteous, holy ruler of the universe. Because if you lose that, the more you diminish that, then you'll diminish mercy and grace. Because you'll begin to feel entitled to, like God owes me something. And you will move immediately away from the gospel.

Speaker 2:
[16:55] Yeah. Yeah. So, you talk about, we talk about desperation. Here's a man, desperate. And it makes me curious. Jesus, at this point in His ministry, has not raised anyone from the dead, right? And...

Speaker 3:
[17:21] Maybe.

Speaker 2:
[17:21] Maybe.

Speaker 3:
[17:23] So, the Gospels are not always written chronologically, and that's something people have to understand. Matthew is putting themes together, you know? So, sometimes, we... This is a little bit of our chronological snobbery, because we do documentaries.

Speaker 2:
[17:36] Right.

Speaker 3:
[17:36] And Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and John are not doing documentaries. They're sharing the good news of Christ's victory over sin and death.

Speaker 2:
[17:44] Right.

Speaker 3:
[17:45] So, these Gospel writers will put things together in sometimes different orders. But, correct, in Matthew, if you're starting from Matthew 1 and you were reading about Jesus, there has not been.

Speaker 2:
[17:57] So, it makes me wonder, what's his frame of reference for saying, Jesus, you can do this? You know, he's desperate, and so he's willing to try. You know, but, I mean, so if you met somebody today who's like, I'm going to go ask Pastor Joby to come and raise my dad from the dead, he just died, we'd be like, all right.

Speaker 3:
[18:17] But if I had, but if I'd come to the seas, cast out the demons, you know, the ones that we know of that he's done, you know what I mean? Healed a leper. I think you're trending in the right direction. See, one of the things you got to notice about Jairus, he doesn't come with that spirit of entitlement. My tendency would be, if I were coming to Jesus on behalf of my son, I think I could fall, especially if I only knew what Jairus knew, I could have a little, I could be like, do you know who I am?

Speaker 4:
[18:50] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[18:51] Do you know all I've done for Yahweh? You know what I mean? I would want to give credentials. You see his faith that he gives no credentials. He's poor in spirit, right?

Speaker 2:
[19:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[19:02] Much like the centurion who's like, hey, I know you can speak one word and my servant will be healed.

Speaker 4:
[19:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[19:13] And so understated, Matthew, Jesus rose and followed him. I was like, all right, let's go. Let's try it.

Speaker 3:
[19:20] That should inform our prayer life. Like if you think about prayer, you know, Britt does this whole spiel on it. We'll get him to explain it next time about time and gravity and space and God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and all this stuff. But if you just think about it, God is sovereign over all things. That's just true. So, he knows. He knows the beginning from the end. I mean, to him, it's, you know, he's a timeless God looking down into time. And yet, he tells us to pray. I mean, Jesus commands us to pray and says, you have not, cause you ask not. And he tells us how to pray and he tells us to pray in his name. And the Spirit of God in us teaches us to pray, helps us pray when we don't know what to pray. And we're praying to a father who hears our prayers. And we're told to pray consistently and insistently. Like the majority of Jesus' parables are about prayer. It's just, don't quit, man. Just keep asking. And so on the one hand, God is sovereign, period. And there's things that God's not gonna do if we don't pray. And both of those are true. And if somebody's like, how do you reconcile? You don't have to reconcile friends. Those two things are friends. That's how God said it works. And you can't, I don't know, your head will blow up if you think about it too much.

Speaker 4:
[20:49] When I think, you see, when I think about prayer, and it's all those things, you know, it's, God loves to hear from his kids. You have not because you ask not. But I always want to go to the center, at least for me, the center of it is, I pray because I realize that I am not in control.

Speaker 3:
[21:06] Correct.

Speaker 4:
[21:07] That I am not all knowing, and I cannot be everywhere at once. And so, because of that realization, I then cry out, and that's what it is. I cry out to the one who is in control, who is all knowing. You know what I mean? So it again brings me back to who God is. Because I think we can do this over an extended period of time and start to treat God like an ATM machine or a genie in a lamp and just kind of like, well, God, I want this, and I want this, and I want this, and I want that. And again, God loves to hear from his kids, but it's from that posture of, I am not in control, you are. And so therefore I can boldly approach the throne of grace.

Speaker 3:
[21:49] 100%. And the heresy of like the name it and claim it, blab it and grab it crowd is that you are preeminent, and God is responding to me as opposed to, God, you are preeminent, and I want to align me with you. And then, but you told me to pray in your name, the character and nature of God, and that I have not because I ask not. And I think the Shadrach Meshachan Abednego prayer is one of the best. God, I know you can, I believe you will, and even if you don't, we will not bow down.

Speaker 2:
[22:26] You mentioned this towards the end, Pastor Joby, but when Jesus knows the end of the story, and he proves that to the crowd, he's like, she's not dead, she's sleeping. But what I notice is that that's a way to describe Jairus' faith, is that he says, my daughter has just died, but if you come lay your hands on her, she'll live.

Speaker 3:
[22:51] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[22:52] So that desperate prayer is coming from this place. Jesus, you have the last word. Like, things look this way. That's where it springs from, is like, I see something with my eyes, but I want you to tell a different story.

Speaker 3:
[23:07] Well, that's the biggest thing I wanted to bring home, is it ain't over till Jesus says it's over. And how many times have we been like, this ministry is over, lots of people, my marriage is over, my relationship, my kid's over. Hold on one second. You don't get to determine. Like, it ain't over till he says it's over.

Speaker 4:
[23:26] That's the difference between desperation and despair. Despair is inward and has no motion. Desperation is still reaching because that's what she does. She reaches, right? It's still reaching. There's still motion and desperation. And so, I want to, like, we should get to a point where we're telling people, like, desperation is a beautiful thing. I often think of confession. Confession is courageous because you're being honest. You're going, here's where I am. I'm in desperate need of a savior. And so, when we say be desperate, what's important is the direction in which your desperation is going.

Speaker 3:
[24:04] Yeah, a few weeks ago, I said, please don't make him put you in a desperate situation to long for him like a deer pants for running water. You know? Because still he seeks the fellowship of his people and he will bring them blessing or cursing to detach our hands from the things of this world so that we might grab on to him. What's JL. Packer?

Speaker 2:
[24:27] I don't need anything else besides the stubbornness of my own flesh to be desperate. Like, you know, it's just like how, what is wrong with you? You start to recognize that it makes you desperate. So Jesus is going, he's like, I'll go with you, Jairus.

Speaker 3:
[24:43] Not begrudgingly.

Speaker 2:
[24:44] Right. This woman comes and I love Mark's account and it kind of makes it seem like Jesus goes, whoa, what was that?

Speaker 3:
[24:52] He does. You know?

Speaker 2:
[24:54] And he's like, wait, somebody touched me and power came out of me. You know, who was that? And so that, I don't know if that's supposed to be funny, but of course Jesus knows. It wasn't accidental.

Speaker 4:
[25:05] Well, I love, so just on that, I love Mark's account. I love all four. I love everything about the Bible, but I love Mark's account because you must think about who he's writing to.

Speaker 2:
[25:15] Right?

Speaker 4:
[25:15] So it's a kind of a Roman Gentile context. And they love drama. I mean, just go to Rome and you'll see it's all about the drama. It's all about the action. It's all about, I mean, immediately, the word immediately is in the Book of Mark over 40 times because it's always about the next scene, the next scene, the next scene. And so it creates that tension. And even that context is, power matters. That's why you see so much of the power of Jesus. And so when I read it, I feel the tension. As a father, I'm going, I can see myself in Jairus going, okay, this is really, this is cool. This is great. But my daughter, we've got to go. So there's this tension where in Matthew he's like, well, I need to address some theological things. She's dead. So what is Jesus going to do?

Speaker 3:
[26:04] Yeah, you got to think, because Mark's audience grew up on Zeus and Thor, and the gods are battling over power, you know? And Mark's like, yeah, those are stories. This was actual power was transferred. Now, the application to us, though, is, oh my gosh, it terrifies me that people would just show up here and be in the crowd and kind of bump into Jesus, and there'd be no power exchange. They would never grab on to the hem of his garment. They would never believe, trust, have faith, reach out to Jesus in need, and then leave the same, the same, you know?

Speaker 2:
[26:48] The tensions increased in Mark's account because it says, she's on the brink of death. And then while this interchange is happening with the woman, the servants come and say, oh, now we're too late.

Speaker 3:
[27:00] So that's back to the sovereign hand of God. Like Jesus is going to bring a dead girl back to life. So if he gets there too early, so sometimes what we think is a tragedy is God just setting up a miracle. I talked to this young man, he graduated top of his class in med school, was just on top of the world, thought he was the smartest guy in the world, and I'm sure he is, he's one of them. And so there's this match program when you graduate med school to do your residency, and you list like your top five places, and sometimes people just don't get matched, and he didn't, and he was in a place of desperation. He's given his whole life to this thing. God humbled him like crazy. I mean, he's flat on his back, and his need exceeded his ego. So he moved to Jacksonville from wherever he was, and just volunteered at Mayo, and trying to get on, and somebody invited him to 1122. And I'm like, dude, so that's what I mean. The sovereign hand of God did not match you where you wanted to be, because you needed to go where you needed to be, because God was going to save you. Now everything's different. And then to put a bow on it, Mayo just started the residency that he needed, and he got appointed there. Wow. Right. So it's really cool when you get to see the beginning, middle and end of Romans 8.28. But even if you can't see him, he's working. Like that's, I love when we sing Waymaker. You just gotta know it, you gotta believe it, you gotta trust it. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[28:46] Tim Keller says about this event, Jesus didn't stop because he was ignorant of what happened. It was because he wouldn't let her stay hidden. He had more to give her than healing. He wanted to give her peace. Think about that. Like he wants to undo, you talked so much about how she would have been, so isolated because of this. And he wants to bring her out of that isolation and say peace.

Speaker 3:
[29:17] So let's talk about that for a second. So a little theology of men and women. This is some wild at heart stuff from the Eldritch. The core of every woman is, am I lovely? Am I valuable? And that image is God. Think about that. God wants to be valued. That's why worship is a big deal. And he knows that if we value anything above him, it actually kills us. It's insulting to him and it's a death sentence to us, okay? So a part of what he puts in the female spirit is that thing. Am I lovely? Am I valuable? You can see it all the way traced out to Paul's household code. So he says, husbands, love your wife. Like value her, you know? And she's been told she's dirty and defiled. Is there a worse thing you can tell a woman? And in the heart of every man is, do I have what it takes? You know? I want to live up to the responsibility given me, and I want to hear, you're a good man. You did it. You know? Like the best thing Gretchen's ever told me is not, I love you. I mean, the dogs love me. But the best thing she's ever said is she'll say, thank you for my life. That gets at the heart of a man. Okay, Jairus is helpless. So they are both being cracked to the core. So I asked Gretchen, I was like, all right, it was like six o'clock and I'm getting ready. And I'm like, all right, babe, I need some help here. So the best thing you can tell me is, thank you for my life or I'm proud of you, you know, those kinds of things. I said, what about you? And she says the most meaningful things to me, for Mother's Day this year, JP wrote Gretchen a long letter. And one of the things that said in it is, you make our family work. And that for her, it was just so valuable, you know? So she says, so this lady, I mean, think about a wife and a mom and how much in a positive way her identity is wrapped in it because it's what God put her here to do. I mean, Eve is called the mother of all living things. You know what I mean? So, and so if she was married with kids over 12 years, she doesn't get to see them, touch them, be in community with them, nor is she in community at synagogue. I mean, she's called defiled and dirty. And then what Jesus does is sees her, calls her daughter, makes her whole and he undoes all the things in a moment. She's seen, she's valued, she's touched, she's adopted into the family as a daughter. Like he meets all of her deepest needs in that moment. And when he says your faith has made you well, sosa is the word for in Greek there, like saved, delivered. Shalom would be the Hebrew understanding in the first century, made you whole. Not just, here's a ticket out of hell. But I've made you, you are now able to wholly love me, hearts, soul, mind and strength because you have been made whole.

Speaker 4:
[32:43] It's the holistic nature of the gospel. Like it's, so there's the saying in Africa, flows out of the spirit of what they call Ubuntu, but spoken, said in many languages across the continent, but directly translated to English is, I am because we are. And so you're right that she is saved from a life completely separated from God, salvation, like that she's reconciled back to the father. And then by implication, there is this ongoing work that's happening. You know, especially in this culture that's deeply community oriented. For her to be lonely, it's, I mean, to be excluded from communities more than just loneliness. No doubt. She no longer had the ability to see herself because she was kind of put away, separated from others. And so even that creates this exactly the purpose. Like, well, then what am I supposed to do? Who am I? What am I? And so she shows up to Jesus with a condition, but she leaves with a name. And that name has so many implications. Daughter, father, like God is your father. That is who you are. And then you have siblings. This is your community. You're brought in belonging. There is so much that's happening here that I think sometimes we don't get into. And you did it tonight when you led us so powerfully and so beautifully in listing out all those things and starting first with salvation, reconciliation with the father. I mean, we see this in Ephesians chapter 2. It's the first 10 chapters. It's that. And then the next verses, it's like, well, these are the implications if you're going through this, if you're going through this, if you're going through this, this is the holistic nature of the gospel. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[34:34] And the spirit of it was, do you have the tenacity and faith that this woman had to come to step forward?

Speaker 3:
[34:42] That's why we did everything public.

Speaker 2:
[34:43] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[34:44] Tonight. Because Jesus called her out in public. Like she had 500 reasons to go home. Because not only is she isolated, but she is the cause of other people's defilement if she bumps into them. It's one thing to not get hugged. It's another thing to say, if you hug me, I can't hug anybody else for, until I do the seven day purification ritual. You know?

Speaker 2:
[35:11] I loved the, you know, sort of typological look at what Jair was going through as a man and a woman. And I also see and hear different kinds of pain and suffering. So he's experiencing like a quick tragedy, like the worst thing, the worst news. It seems to be like it's coming on quick, but she's got this thing that's like, some people suffer and it's like, it feels like it's never going to end and just wears on you and wears on you and wears on you. And Jesus in this thing is addressing both kinds of suffering.

Speaker 3:
[35:45] And she's spent every dollar she has going to the positions. And Mark says they made it worse. I do think it's funny Luke doesn't mention that because he's a doctor. He's like, she went to a lot of doctors. Mark's like, and they made it worse. So in the Talmud, there's 11 different cures for this. A bunch of them are like, weird things to drink and stuff. And then some of them is just total superstition. Like one was, you get an ostrich egg and you carry it for six months in one type of bag. And then when the season changed, you switch it to a wool bag, literally. And then one of them, the grossest one, is you had to find a cob of corn from a white, in the poop of a white mule and carry it around.

Speaker 2:
[36:38] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[36:40] Religion make you do crazy things, man.

Speaker 4:
[36:41] It sounds crazy, it is crazy, but the temptation sometimes can be like, those are some crazy people. And then I go, so what do we do? What are some of the crazy things we do? Hoping to find, like, what are you reading? You'll find people reading the strange, listening to the strangest insight. What do you, why would you do that? And it's, again, it's like, sure, you're desperate, but the direction of your desperation is not towards Jesus, it's towards the self-help book. It's towards the next mindless scroll. It's to the next drink. It's the, we're still doing the same things. Maybe we're a little bit more sophisticated in our language. So we go, that's a, those people were crazy. No, we crazy.

Speaker 2:
[37:31] Yeah. The ostrich egg sounds pretty silly. And then we list those things. It's like, wow, those are also very silly. More repetition. Daughter, Jairus says, I have a daughter. And Jesus says, he says, take heart, daughter. And you said, only time in the scripture, Jesus directly calls somebody by that name.

Speaker 3:
[37:54] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[37:56] I mean, that's significant, right?

Speaker 3:
[37:59] Yeah. I think something that bugs me is that we all know this woman as the woman with the issue of blood. So why do we call her that? Why do we label her by her condition instead of by her healing?

Speaker 2:
[38:16] That was so good.

Speaker 3:
[38:16] You know, there's one person that Jesus calls daughter and we want to call her the woman with the issue of blood. And it still happens today, you know?

Speaker 2:
[38:29] Yeah. If John was writing this, he would have said woman that Jesus called daughter.

Speaker 3:
[38:35] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[38:35] Probably. When he arrives at the house, that is a fascinating thing that they would hire the funeral mourners.

Speaker 3:
[38:48] At least one wailing woman.

Speaker 2:
[38:49] Right. And then he makes this statement, the girl is not dead, she is sleeping. And it's funny because before I heard you preach this, I said, Jesus gets to define the outcome. But let's talk about their response. I mean, they laugh. They laugh at him. Cause they're like, who's this guy? You know? And then there's about C. So talk more about what that means for following Jesus and doing what he says.

Speaker 3:
[39:21] Yeah. If you do what Jesus says to do, if you live your life according to the word of God, then this culture is going to laugh at you. Pick the category. Power. If you leverage whatever power you have and dress yourself as a servant and serve others, and not even as like a end around tactic to show what a servant leader you are. Cause Jesus never called us to be servant leaders. He just calls us to be servants. And so everybody's okay with being a servant and be treated like one. People are going to be like, what are you doing? Like you're the boss. You shouldn't do that. If you do money, God's way, the world's going to be like, what are you doing? Why do you take your money and give 10% to the church? And you're like, that's adorable. You think it's my money. You do sex, God's way, and this world's going to laugh at you. You're like, what are you doing, man? And so if you do forgiveness, like that person did you wrong, why in the world would you reconcile with that person? So none of this makes sense because people don't have eyes to see life the way God has given us eyes to see. And so if you don't get a bloody nose from this culture, by the way you're living, according to the Beatitudes, you're not walking in a manner worthy of the gospel of Jesus. And what's really sad in our culture is it's gone from mocking us, like you guys are silly, to condemning us and your way of life is dangerous, you know?

Speaker 2:
[40:50] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[40:51] Like if you think marriage is what the Bible says, you'll be condemned. If you think all life is valuable, you will be condemned. If you think there is truth, you will be condemned. We could go on and on and on and on.

Speaker 2:
[41:07] Yeah, that whole words are violence, safe space thing is pretty scary, you know? The way that that's evolved. Now Jesus, and so we go back to Mark's account. This is a phrase that's repeated often. He strictly charged them that no one should know this. Matthew doesn't include that. He just says, word of it spread, you know? Why did Jesus, I think you might have said this before, why did Jesus tell people not to tell other people about what he did?

Speaker 3:
[41:37] The first time that was really brought to my attention was through one of Gretchen's devotionals. She did, I think during the Anything Is Possible series, she did like eight weeks on miracles in the Bible. And all the places where it happened in Gentile areas, he would say, go and tell. Like the demoniacs wanted to follow him. He's like, no, you go tell everybody. And I think it's because the Hebrew people were so like, their entire ethos was that of the sacrificial system. And so like when he comes off the mountain of transfiguration, he's gonna say, don't tell anybody about this until I've been resurrected from the grave. So they are looking for a suffering servant, a lamb that will be slain for the forgiveness of sin in order for them to understand who he is. The Gentiles, it was more of a power struggle, like you just mentioned before. So their ethos was, there's a whole bunch of gods battling it out. And so he's in the Gentile areas, when he demonstrates that he is victorious over these lesser demons is what they actually are. But the Greeks would have thought these lesser gods, then you go tell everybody, I am Christus Victor. Like I am the victorious powerful one. So in their frame of reference, they would have the mindset to understand who he is, but it's going to take the cross and the resurrection for the Jewish people to have any concept that he is who Isaiah 53 was predicting.

Speaker 2:
[43:10] That's really good. And also, I mean, he's sovereign, but you get the sense of, I think this is mostly in John's gospel, the time's not yet come. So he does, he's trying to make sure that the way the events are unfolding are according to the right time period, the right time frame.

Speaker 3:
[43:30] Yeah, you know what's interesting? I heard somebody talking about this. So Pilate's in charge, right? And the Caesar is ruling and reigning, right? There's almost no mention of political power until you get to his arrest and he's on trial. Because Jesus is the central figure. And the culture that we live in, everybody talks about the political leadership as it's the most important thing. It's not. Jesus is the most important thing, period. And Trump, love him or hate him, but he is a bit player. You know? Netanyahu is an extra in all that God is doing. And yet, if you listen or watch any kind of news or the majority of podcasts, even Christian ones, 99% of what is talked about is political parties and power and who's doing what. It's hardly, it's barely mentioned a little bit in Luke 2. When we get to, you know, Pilate is going to finally show up on the scene and have his little part. But it is not, it is, they are not the lead actor in the story. The life of Jesus is. And so listen, when, you know, when the political stuff swerves into the theological lane and starts redefining what God said is and is not, I'm happy to run that stuff over. But I'm not going chasing after a whole bunch of political talk because Jesus is the primary focus of everything that we're going to do. And I think we've got to stay laser focused on that.

Speaker 2:
[45:19] I loved when you said in God's kingdom, no one's unclean, no one's crying, no one's dying. And then you said, this is the picture of the gospel. There's blood, there's death as a resurrection. There's peace with God. There's new life. I mean, gospel all over. Is that, is that called like a typological way of looking at the story? And can you give guidance for how to read the gospels that way?

Speaker 3:
[45:46] So in Matthew 4, it says, and from that time on, Jesus began preaching, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. So everything that he's going to do is he's declaring the gospel or demonstrating that gospel. So he's not doing random miracles. He didn't just feel sorry for this dad and do this thing. He's peeling back the curtain to show us what the kingdom of heaven is like. And so when we talk through the gospel of John, we talked about this more than any other time, is that John doesn't call miracles miracles. He always calls them signs, because signs point to something greater than themselves. And so that's what he's saying. Where I rule in rain, everything's different. So your legs don't work. Well, they're going to work in heaven, because in heaven, nobody walks with a swagger or a limp. Oh, your eyes don't work. I mean, spit on the ground, make some mud. Because I need you to see him behold the glory of me sitting on the throne. Every single thing that he does is a picture of what we will be like in our glorified self. So like you never see, never in the Bible, do you see him just like do it like, saw the disciples coming around the corner and Jesus was juggling camels. And, you know, just as he could, like, hold on, let me put these down. What do you guys need? That's not what he does. He's like, oh, y'all don't have food? Well, there's going to be a banqueting table in heaven. And so let me show you what it's like in the kingdom of heaven. You can eat till you're full and there's 12 baskets left over. Oh, let me do it again. And one time there's 12 and one time there's seven because there's 12 tribes of Israel and there's seven, like, regions of Canaanite land that they took over. That means this is for the Jew and the Gentile. There's nothing random. It's all a demonstration of God's redemptive plan.

Speaker 4:
[47:35] I mean, when you read Matthew, I read Matthew and I go, the first three chapters is the announcement of the king. The Sermon on the Mount is like, he's constitutional. You know, this is the mandate. And then the rest is like, well, this is kingdom living. This is how it works. And then we get to his death, the power. And then the Great Commission is now, now you go. So there's definitely lenses that you can read Matthew, the Gospels, like the Bible. It's all pointing to something. There is a point. Nothing is, you're right. Nothing is random. Nothing is an accident. Everything is intentional. And so if we read it through that lens, it just becomes alive. By the power of the Holy Spirit, it just becomes alive. You know, so even like something as random as, why did Jesus kick those people out of the house? That seems a bit mean. Well, it's like you cannot simultaneously mock the possibility of a resurrection and then also live in expectation that it's going to happen, like in the reality of it. So he goes, okay, if you're going to shut your heart to me, like you're going to close the door to your heart to me, and let me just close this to this miracle. And then you still go, but what about the love? What about the, well, I'm pretty sure they would have heard the girl laughing, you know, Jesus is funny and loves kids. We see that. So they would hear that. And even that is an opportunity for them to go hold on. He is who he says he is. It's not done until you breathe your last breath. That's how patient and loving and compassionate he is. Those 400 years of silence is like, it's not God going, well, I'm done with you. No, it's God being patient. Even those 400 years of silence are intentional.

Speaker 3:
[49:25] I think him kicking the people out of the house is a like, to do the implication and application to today. This is like a good example of Jesus setting healthy boundaries.

Speaker 4:
[49:36] So good.

Speaker 3:
[49:37] Like we love, we're commanded to love everyone, but access is not to be granted to everyone. And if you fill your life with faithless people, that is not going to be a good thing. And, you know, Mark and Luke say that he brings Peter, James, and John into the house with him, you know, because they trust him and they believe him and they follow him. And so he's going to bring them along, but not everybody should have access to you in a personal application. And so, you know, maybe there's some things, you know, God has called you to do, and you've got people that call themselves friends around you that are trying to keep you from that thing. Those are not your friends. Yep.

Speaker 2:
[50:23] I've never noticed it before, but do you think this also could be a foreshadowing of a parable he tells in 22, the wedding feast, where he kicks out of the party the guests who didn't have the right clothes on, and puts them out?

Speaker 3:
[50:40] Yeah, they did not receive the righteous robes. These are people that think they are entitled to be there because they snuck in. I think you read that one like in line of all of Matthew 25, you know, Parable of the Virgins, Cheap and Goats. Like, I don't need your wedding garbs, my clothes are fine, you're out.

Speaker 2:
[51:07] That's the Malachi 4 arrogant person.

Speaker 4:
[51:13] I often wonder if that they, you know, we're told that they laughed, they scoffed. There is a, we can become so comfortable with death. We're so used to it that we no longer have this expectation of a resurrection. My wife, in all her wisdom, she says she does not respect death. And there are some cultures that they like we do too much around death. You know, I love the fact that here we call it the celebration of life. Like I love those things, but we do way too much. It can sometimes feel like a wedding. Like am I attending a, what is happening here? And she just goes, I cannot respect death. Do we mourn with those who mourn 100%? You know, Jesus wept, because he's going, this is not how it's supposed to be. We were made to live forever. Like death was never part of the equation. And yet we've become so comfortable and we've normalized it. They're no wonder they laugh. She's dead. And it's like, hold on, but Jesus is here. But she's dead, but Jesus is here. I mean, I'm going to live in expectation that something is going to happen.

Speaker 2:
[52:19] It's good.

Speaker 3:
[52:20] Somebody just died. Who just died? An old vice president or something? Didn't he?

Speaker 2:
[52:25] I don't know. I'm the worst person to ask that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3:
[52:28] Way to watch the news, Binky. But you know, they tell their whole life story and do all these tributes and stuff. I thought, you know what we ought to do is we ought to just set some age. If you make it to whatever, 85 or 80 or something, go ahead and run all the things so the poor guy can hear about the impact, you know what I mean? So bad.

Speaker 2:
[52:48] I can't remember who I was talking to, but I was talking about how, you know, I don't really know like when it counted, like my surrender to Jesus counted because I did it so many times growing up in church, you know. And, you know, we went forward a lot. Or even just when we started going to a church where they did a prayer invitation, I would go all the time, you know. And we ended, you ended tonight with asking people to stand. If you find yourself in this place of desperation, stand. Every week we say, sing, bring, pray, come and kneel. And as I was talking to whoever I was talking to, I was like, I really think there's significance to like, that's even that step that you can't immediately see. And so Pastor Joby, what do you think is the significance of somebody who's taking that step of faith that feels small or it feels big to them, but it's also feels small. I got up from my seat and went and knelt over there. You know, what is, what do you think that's doing inside that person in their faith?

Speaker 3:
[53:57] Well, I can't find one time where Jesus scolds the person that makes any step of obedience towards him, you know? So we want to celebrate every time, whatever the thing is. And what happens on our end, though, is all the process people get involved. And they're like, well, this many people raised their hand, but only this many people filled out the card. I'm like, will you just give it a second, bro? Like, that dude came in here lost and heard the invitation. And that's the scariest thing that brother has ever done in his life. And he thought, holy crap, I think the living God is calling me. And for the first time, I think I might believe that when Jesus said, it is finished on the cross, that counted for me. And it took everything I had just to lift a hand during a prayer time. And I know somebody's looking because they could say the number at the end. They say nobody's looking, then how do they know how many? You know what I mean? All right, so if that guy, so now he's been a follower of Jesus for nine seconds. And then we expect them to, now the reason we want to fill out a card and tell us and let us know is because we want to walk with them, you know, to take the next step. So bro, if they're not ready yet, I'm not going to bag on that dude, or bag on that girl. Like, we're going to celebrate every positive step towards Jesus. Because not only is he sovereign over miracles and healing, he's sovereign over salvation and sanctification. And so we just want to be there to help people take the next, next step after that.

Speaker 2:
[55:41] And isn't it true that even and especially when you take a step like that, there is coming quickly an onslaught of whispers.

Speaker 3:
[55:51] No doubt.

Speaker 2:
[55:52] And, and, oh, you made that up, or you walk out of here, that was not real. Like the, like the parable of those seeds, the sower, you know, this thing falls and then there's all kinds of opportunity for it to get stolen away.

Speaker 4:
[56:07] Well, that's why, that's why what we did and what we always do is so powerful as a community, because in that moment, we, we are the living expression of what Jesus is doing here. Like the body of Christ, we, like that's what we're supposed to do. So the, it's communicating that, hey, there is, he's, he's, his touch still has hands and his words still have a voice. It's through his body.

Speaker 3:
[56:38] Correct.

Speaker 4:
[56:39] And so when that person stands up, it's like, okay, great. If you're next to that person, reach out, put your hand on them. Let them, let them, let them know that what's happening is real, that there's a real Jesus who died for a real you. So it's, I, the more we do in the context of community, because we can quickly make this an individual isolated, like this is just my personal, and I get it, I get a personal relationship with Jesus. No doubt I get it. But we were beautifully designed for fellowship.

Speaker 3:
[57:08] And I was trying to empower the priest of the believer, the saints doing the work, right? Equipping the saints for the work of the ministry tonight. Because, I mean, man, what a great time for us to be alive. The fact that following a call into full-time vocational ministry means like, we get afforded because of the generosity of this church, that we get to focus the amount of time towards this we do. The shadow of that is that church folk can think, well, we're going to leave that to the professionals, but we're not the professionals. And so we want to give, especially moments like that, like, you know what? No, no, no, no. Every single person that has ever surrendered to Jesus, you have the Spirit of Christ in you, and we are the body of Christ, and we're going to take care of one another. So do some ministry right now, and pray for over those people that just stood up.

Speaker 2:
[58:04] And it reminds me of the four friends, right? Like they helped their paralytic friend, and their exercise of their faith did something in his life. And so when you're standing, even next to somebody that you don't really know, and they're like, I'm going to pray for you, and whatever you stood up for, it's like, I'm exercising my faith to carry you to Jesus.

Speaker 3:
[58:25] And then one of the reasons I wanted to do it is because, I mean, I can only see what's going on here at San Pablo, but I imagine a whole bunch of those folks walked in here tonight thinking, I am alone in this.

Speaker 2:
[58:38] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[58:39] And then you look around and there's a thousand people standing up, and you're like, I am not alone. Like we are in this thing together.

Speaker 2:
[58:48] Yeah, so thank you for that. Thanks for explaining and unpacking and then letting us participate in that. Take a step and then get the same result that the woman got.

Speaker 3:
[59:02] Right.

Speaker 2:
[59:02] Which is you can find more belonging than you had before. You can see more of your identity than you could see before. You can have more peace than you had before. So I just thought it was awesome.

Speaker 4:
[59:14] The church is still in the business of engaging those who are considered untouchable. We are still in the business of bringing people into a space so that they might belong. Like that, it hasn't ended. And so, through your obedience of leading us through that is just another reminder of like, hey, this is who we are as the church.

Speaker 3:
[59:38] Well, it comes out of a promise I made after a major failure. You know, I talked about it last week on Deepen. But imagine if the church that I brought the stripper to, imagine if they, she already felt really self-conscious and she felt the stares. Imagine if she was met with, like, true hospitality. I almost hate that the word gets translated hospitality in English. It's xenofileo, right? The love of the outsider. And what if she had felt that instead of condemnation? Her whole story could be different, you know? And I failed. I did not believe in the goodness of the gospel enough to stand up for her, even though Jesus bled and died for her. I was more concerned about what my future employment opportunities might be, and I just cowered. And I'm not, I don't typically cower, so it hurt me bad that, like, I was so disappointed in myself, too, you know? And then, and then didn't have a chance to make it right. She moved away quickly. I don't even know her name is, you know what I mean? There's no her stage name. And I just thought, I'm not gonna, if I ever get to be the person that gets to make, like, create the culture of how we treat people, is that girl could show up. And there's a million of them, man. Tammy Talton with Hadassah's Hope, which is one of the, it's a strip club ministry. So the church ladies take dinner, things like once a week or something like that, to the strip clubs around the city. And she didn't know what was going to talk about this tonight. And she just sent me and Pastor Britt this testimony, bragging on Jesus about a lot, all the things that God's doing through that ministry right now. They baptized maybe like 10 girls this year. You know what I mean? And it, you know, what's interesting, if you look at the qualifications of an elder, Xenophilae comes before teaching.

Speaker 2:
[61:43] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[61:45] And so if you don't love lost people, I don't think you should, you wouldn't make a good shepherd. Because when, if you lose, if one gets away, you're like, eh, I got 99, because, you know, my job is to take care of the 99. Like, hold on one second. I don't.

Speaker 2:
[62:02] You're not going to have a job for very long, because they're going to get lost. All right, Pastor Joby, shut it down with any words and a closing prayer for sunshine and others.

Speaker 3:
[62:15] Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I would point out is if you buy into the lie of the American dream, you're going to think that your position in power and success and stuff somehow is going to insulate you from pain, and that's not true. And if you buy into the lie of religion that you were defiled and dirty and are too far gone, that's not true. And the blood of Jesus speaks a better word over you. And we all need him. And the need that you have is actually the warm invitation of God's generous love towards you that you would be convicted of that sin and then come to him. And what you receive when you come to him is he sees you, he calls you son or daughter, and he gives you life and life everlasting. That's what this passage is about.

Speaker 2:
[63:15] Amen.

Speaker 3:
[63:16] Let's pray. Dear Jesus, we love you cause you love us first. And God, I thank you that you went to the cross for every single one of us who would believe. The successful religious person and the outcast. And your deepest desire is that we would trust you, believe in you, and that we would be called sons and daughters of the Most High King. You're praying Jesus now.

Speaker 1:
[63:45] Thank you for listening to the podcast. The reality is, everything already belongs to God. And when we give financially, we're acknowledging that we trust him. If you just watch this and feel led to make a donation, text the word donate to 441122, or visit coe22.com/donate. Your generosity is not only an act of worship, but an investment so all people can discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ.