transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:01] Hello, and welcome to the She Reads Truth Podcast. She Reads Truth creates beautiful, accessible Bible reading plans and resources to help you get into God's Word every day. Each week here on the podcast, we talk about what we're going to read together as a community this week. I'm your host, Amanda Bible Williams.
Speaker 2:
[00:18] And I'm your other host, Raechel Myers. And this is week one of our James study. For week one, we are joined by our personal friend, but also bestselling author of several books and Bible studies, Jeannie Cunnion. We love Jeannie. Her most recent book is a devotional called Closer to God, A 40 Day Pursuit of God's Personal Presence. So excited about that book. That's available at wherever books are sold. But y'all, we are so excited to be opening this short epistle, this letter from James, the brother of Jesus. And let's get right to this conversation with Jeannie. Jeannie Cunnion, welcome back to the She Reads Truth Podcast.
Speaker 3:
[00:59] Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2:
[01:00] I say welcome back, having never actually hosted you.
Speaker 3:
[01:03] I know.
Speaker 2:
[01:04] The last two times that you've been on. Yeah, I've been avoiding you. Is what's true. No, I, so you were a guest for Proverbs, and I missed recording that one. We were like trying to remember why, I can't even remember. Who could know?
Speaker 1:
[01:17] Life happens sometimes.
Speaker 2:
[01:19] And then way back in 2022, you were a guest for John, and I missed that too. And I want you to know that I've not been avoiding you.
Speaker 3:
[01:23] I know, I know. I'm just so happy that the three of us are doing it now.
Speaker 2:
[01:27] Me too. And for such a good book. I mean, here we are. I feel like we studied the Book of Psalms for seven weeks for Lent. And now it feels like a little more rapid fire. Like we studied Beatitudes for two weeks, and now we're opening the Book of James together. And it's just such a different pace. I'm excited.
Speaker 3:
[01:46] Do you still pinch yourself that you get to do this?
Speaker 2:
[01:48] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[01:49] It's so fun.
Speaker 2:
[01:50] Seriously.
Speaker 1:
[01:51] And it is such a good combination because it challenges me. I mean, I think I speak for both of us.
Speaker 2:
[01:57] Oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:
[01:57] It challenges me so much. It encourages me so much. I learn so much. The most frustrating thing to me, I think, about hosting this podcast is that I feel like I don't often, there are a lot of times I want to like marinate on something that I've heard, you know, that we've learned together. But we have to keep going.
Speaker 2:
[02:21] We move at such a quick pace.
Speaker 1:
[02:22] So I've started sort of kind of like keeping a log of things that I want to return to at some point.
Speaker 3:
[02:28] Oh, I like that.
Speaker 1:
[02:29] But yeah, I mean, it is, it is really, it's a really sweet gig.
Speaker 2:
[02:33] So for context, for our friends listening, we go out of a quicker clip than the community goes, because y'all are reading one day at a time. But often we're podcasting three or four weeks in one week. And so, you know, for Psalms, for example, we recorded four episodes covering 90 Psalms in one week. And that was in hindsight, that was a little bit aggressive, because it's like exactly what you're saying where you're like, Oh, I just like I wanted to, I want the community's experience of getting to like, go a little slower. But yeah, to answer your question, Jeannie, like, we get like the next level accountability because the mic goes live. Like, did you read James today or yesterday or the last week?
Speaker 1:
[03:14] And yeah, we pray before every episode. And this, as you were praying before we started recording, Rachel, I really just sense the Holy Spirit just being like, you don't have to talk much this time. Just maybe because I feel the weightiness of what we're about to discuss.
Speaker 2:
[03:31] I know.
Speaker 1:
[03:32] And I just felt like this like impression on my heart of like, hey, hot takes are not where it's at.
Speaker 2:
[03:38] Right?
Speaker 1:
[03:39] Like, let's just study, just listen, which is kind of a reflection of what we're about to read. That's not a coincidence.
Speaker 2:
[03:46] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[03:46] Like that conviction. But Jeannie, the Book of James, it's a letter.
Speaker 2:
[03:52] A general epistle.
Speaker 1:
[03:53] It's a general epistle and it's a wild one. I think that our relationship with James as believers and Bible readers really varies pretty greatly from person to person. So how do you approach this book? What's your relationship with it over the years?
Speaker 3:
[04:13] The thing that strikes me the most is that this is the brother of Jesus.
Speaker 2:
[04:19] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[04:20] Easy to forget, honestly.
Speaker 3:
[04:21] Who did not believe.
Speaker 2:
[04:23] Right. Who didn't believe.
Speaker 3:
[04:25] I was thinking about that this morning. So he was just like, mom and dad, you're lying.
Speaker 2:
[04:30] Right.
Speaker 3:
[04:31] Like what? Like Mary and Joseph.
Speaker 2:
[04:34] Like genuinely.
Speaker 3:
[04:35] And then it stuns me that people don't believe now because he's so irresistible to me. And yet, and I don't say that from a holy place, I say that from a needy place that he's so irresistible to me. And I just think, but his own brother was like, nah, I'm not buying it. Yeah. So I just, when you keep that in mind as you read this letter, I think that's so fascinating, the history there.
Speaker 2:
[04:57] I love that you said that because I feel like I've puzzled over that as well. Like, how can you go your whole life? Let's, you know, 12 years old, you know, 17 years old.
Speaker 3:
[05:08] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[05:08] I mean, Jesus' birth story, His origin story is miraculous. And to not understand or believe that, first of all, feels weird. But then you get to like Jesus' ministry, and He's just like watching the miracles and like watching this happen and still not believing. And so as we understand it, and there's actually an extra in the book jumping way ahead, but the like, who was James on pages 22 and 23, like where it talks about-
Speaker 3:
[05:34] I found that so helpful. I loved reading that.
Speaker 2:
[05:36] Like kind of when He came to faith, so to speak, when He came to believe it was after the crucifixion, but in that post-resurrection, pre-ascension period.
Speaker 3:
[05:45] Resurrection, ascension time. Crazy. So I just, it's interesting to me, keeping that in mind.
Speaker 2:
[05:51] But also somehow, do you feel like that just like lends a different level of legitimacy to James, like even like in his ministry, like he was like, we'll give him discerning, but I don't know if that's our right word, but like that he was so resistant to this, that there was something that truly did compel him to change his mind. That it wasn't just like, I grew up always believing this, but instead as an adult, he changed his mind. I don't know, somehow that, I don't know, kind of lend some additional legitimacy in some way.
Speaker 3:
[06:18] I feel like that about like Paul.
Speaker 2:
[06:20] Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:
[06:20] Like his letters are so compelling because he loved crucifying Christians, and now all he wanted to do was convert people to Jesus. So it's these layered complex stories, I think that sometimes make it more, a little more compelling when you read what they're writing.
Speaker 2:
[06:37] Yeah, I agree. I agree. I like that.
Speaker 3:
[06:40] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[06:41] Okay, Amanda, you said, I think you used the word wild. You said James is a wild book. Tell me why you think that.
Speaker 1:
[06:47] Here's the thing. I think there is a way of reading James where we tame it as we read it.
Speaker 2:
[06:56] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[06:57] Where we are like, okay, that has to be a metaphor. Right? I don't think it is.
Speaker 2:
[07:03] Yeah. There are a lot of things that will make you shift in your seat.
Speaker 1:
[07:07] I think that this letter is one that if we believe it, as God's word, our life will look different.
Speaker 2:
[07:17] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[07:18] I was extremely convicted throughout it. I've read James before. I normally read James in pieces.
Speaker 2:
[07:26] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[07:26] Reading it as a whole. I tried to just, on Monday, today, we as a community will read the whole letter because it takes 15 minutes.
Speaker 2:
[07:35] 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:
[07:36] Just, you can listen to it, you can read it.
Speaker 2:
[07:37] Read a letter as a letter.
Speaker 1:
[07:39] Do both. Because I know we're going to zoom in on the different sections as we go, I tried to let myself really stay in the bigger picture. And so I just was sort of jotting down like themes of sections rather than trying to get in the nitty-gritty. And it's a confrontational book. It feels that way. And the truth is that like, that's what the kingdom does. Like the kingdom of God is not like us. It is not like our kingdoms that we build, you know, in our lives, in our homes, in our communities, in our countries. It's not the same. It's opposed to a lot of that. And I think that a lot of times, because it can overwhelm us, we soften it when I don't know that we're supposed to soften it.
Speaker 3:
[08:32] Yeah, you're not.
Speaker 2:
[08:32] It's good. It's good. I mean, 2 Timothy 3.16, like scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, training in righteousness. It's good. And I hope that I will, at 99 years old, I hope that when I read scripture, that it continues to train me and correct me. Like until I meet Jesus, I will need that. I will need to be corrected and trained. So I'm grateful. I'm grateful for this book. So y'all listening, Amanda mentioned on day one, which is if you're listening to this on the day that it releases, you will read the whole Book of James, which is not check our box for the full two weeks, because what we want to do is first treat it as a letter and then study it as scripture. And so, yeah, I did the same. I actually a couple of times, I listened to it and read it with my eyes once, and then I just kept listening to it while I was doing a puzzle. I just like to listen to it over and over again and see what catches me. But just to study it in different ways was really helpful for me. I loved it. When you read it as a big picture, when you read it rather than digging right in, Amanda, what would you say? You said a lot of conviction here. We've got, I mean, even like our chapter headings, you're getting this, we're going to talk about trials and maturity. We're going to talk about boasting and humility. We're going to talk about endurance through trials. But it's a lot of conversations about trials. We're going to be praying for wisdom. We're going to be praying boldly. I don't know. I was going to ask you initially, what are the major themes of James? But then I scooped it by talking about that.
Speaker 1:
[10:04] But I think it also depends on the perspective you're reading from, which I think is really interesting.
Speaker 2:
[10:09] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[10:10] If you read it from the perspective of sitting in the seat of a person who has a fair amount of wealth and privilege, which most of us do in our Western American, like a lot of us do, we're a pretty prosperous nation. It reads differently than if you read it from the perspective of someone who is oppressed.
Speaker 3:
[10:37] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[10:43] I just find it really interesting.
Speaker 2:
[10:45] Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[10:46] What themes stand out to you the most in this, Jeannie, as you're looking at it from a big picture?
Speaker 3:
[10:52] Yeah. I think to your point, I think there's also a difference in when you read this book, when life is mostly going as one would hope. There you go. And there are seasons for people where that is true. I was with a friend this past weekend and she's like, gosh, I was telling her some stuff that's going on. I was like, I'm going to be a good friend to her. I was with a friend this past weekend and she's like, gosh, I was telling her some stuff that's going on. She's like, my life feels kind of boring right now. And I said, embrace boring.
Speaker 2:
[11:12] Lean in. I love to give thanks.
Speaker 3:
[11:15] I was so looking forward to boring. Because we will have that. But right now, I'm reading this letter from a place of probably some of the hardest 12 months our family has ever walked through. And so as this letter opens, it captures me right away because I'm reading it both from your example of coming from prosperity or from more of oppression. There's also this, are we walking through primarily hard things?
Speaker 1:
[11:40] Trials, yeah.
Speaker 3:
[11:41] Or are we primarily in a season of enjoying and comfort and peace and ease?
Speaker 2:
[11:48] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[11:48] And so as he opens and he says, you know, whenever you experience various trials, consider it a great joy. And that can easily be misread as though the Lord wants you to be joyful that life is hard. It's more because it's always go to the because.
Speaker 1:
[12:02] Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:
[12:02] Because, you know, the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Speaker 1:
[12:07] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[12:07] And if I'm being honest, I want ease and maturity.
Speaker 2:
[12:12] Yep.
Speaker 1:
[12:13] Wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 3:
[12:14] Wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 1:
[12:14] Best of both worlds.
Speaker 2:
[12:15] You can't get it. That's not how you get to maturity.
Speaker 3:
[12:18] The question is, do you want ease and immaturity and untested faith and immature faith?
Speaker 2:
[12:23] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[12:24] A foolish and childish faith? Or are you willing to walk with the Lord through trials and allow him to cultivate perseverance and endurance?
Speaker 1:
[12:34] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[12:35] So that he can bring your faith to a maturity that it wouldn't have been otherwise.
Speaker 1:
[12:39] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[12:40] And of course, that's what I want.
Speaker 2:
[12:43] On paper.
Speaker 3:
[12:44] On paper.
Speaker 2:
[12:44] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[12:45] And yet there is a real, it's not just a cute, fuzzy statement that you really do get the Lord's presence.
Speaker 1:
[12:52] Right.
Speaker 3:
[12:53] In trials.
Speaker 1:
[12:53] Right.
Speaker 3:
[12:54] I have known his presence and his nearness in things that I have, we have been through as a family over the last year that I would not have known otherwise.
Speaker 1:
[13:02] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[13:03] So yeah, I think if you're coming to this letter in a season of primarily feeling like there are some real trials that the Lord has allowed to come through His hands for a good reason and for His glory, you approach this letter in a different way as well.
Speaker 2:
[13:16] I agree. I agree. The nice thing about the way that we've broken up our reading this plan for these three weeks is that for week one, we only read chapter one. Now, I want to be clear. We always say like, this is the She Reads Truth Podcast. All of scripture is fair game. All of the book of James is fair game. But knowing that we really get to just talk primarily about chapter one today, like I want to read it. Like I want to, I don't know if we can like just like sit and like read the whole thing, but part of me just wants to go like, let's look at the chapter that we're going to study this week and then go into it a little bit more granularly. Is that crazy to read the whole thing?
Speaker 1:
[13:51] I mean, let's round robin it.
Speaker 2:
[13:52] Okay, great. Yeah, Jeannie, why don't you start us off?
Speaker 3:
[13:54] I'd love to. James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes dispersed abroad. Greetings. Consider it a great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance and let endurance have its full effect so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing. Now, if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith without doubting, for the doubter is like the surging sea driven and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord, being double-minded and unstable in all his ways. Let the brother of humble circumstances boast in his exaltation, but let the rich boast in the humiliation because he will pass away like a flower of the field. For the sun rises and together with the scorching wind dries up the grass. Its flower falls off and its beautiful appearance perishes. In the same way, the rich person will wither away while pursuing his activities.
Speaker 1:
[15:08] Blessed is the one who endures trials, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. No one undergoing a trial should say, I am being tempted by God, since God is not tempted by evil, and he himself doesn't tempt anyone. But each person is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own evil desire. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death. Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of Lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. By his own choice, he gave us birth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Speaker 2:
[16:02] My dear brothers and sisters, understand this. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger. For human anger does not accomplish God's righteousness. Therefore, ridding yourselves of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent, humbly receive the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like someone who is looking at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what kind of person he was. But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres in it, and is not a forgetful hearer, but a doer who works, this person will be blessed in what he does. If anyone thinks he is religious without controlling his tongue, his religion is useless and he deceives himself. Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained from the world. This is the word of the Lord.
Speaker 3:
[17:10] Thanks, Beatrice.
Speaker 2:
[17:11] I'm glad we stopped and read the whole thing. Now I just feel like, okay, it was also really hard to just read and not stop and be like, ah. All these things. Let's talk about it, girls. We talked a little bit about that first section, that consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials.
Speaker 1:
[17:29] Which is very, it's interesting to come into this from the Beatitudes.
Speaker 2:
[17:34] It is, I agree.
Speaker 1:
[17:35] And to use the word that Christy McClellan taught me, it is very Beatitudinal.
Speaker 2:
[17:39] Beatitudinal.
Speaker 1:
[17:41] This posture of seeing weakness as beneficial because it enhances our dependence on God. And that is the most valuable posture that we can take, is dependence on God, the most, the strongest posture that we can take. So I love that thinking of adding this to the conversation of what the Beatitudinal life is like.
Speaker 2:
[18:12] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[18:13] That it's not, oh, hard things are great, rah-rah for difficulty. But because of who Jesus is and who we are in him and that we are hidden in him, there is a reward that comes with trial because of that dependence in that relationship.
Speaker 2:
[18:31] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[18:32] And we were designed to be dependent.
Speaker 2:
[18:34] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[18:34] Right. And yet we are so, I am so prone to be independent and then wonder why I'm making it so hard. There's just, there's so many, there's so many simple statements in here. Now, if any of you lacks wisdom, he should what? Ask for it. I mean, all the day long, I'm like, I don't know what we should do about that. How do you think we should handle that? And it's like, if any of you lacks wisdom, which is insight with spiritual implications, right? So here I am also not even like, I'm just getting insight and it's like, but you have access to spiritual implications of this. The Lord is listening 24 seven, ready to provide wisdom. And you're just down here like, what do you think we should do? And it's like, you should pray. You should ask the Lord for wisdom.
Speaker 1:
[19:21] Ask the Lord.
Speaker 3:
[19:21] Who gives generously. It's so convicting.
Speaker 2:
[19:26] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[19:27] Will I ever learn?
Speaker 2:
[19:28] I used to think that like, wisdom was some kind of a download. Like, talk about dependence and independence. Like, I used to think that like, I could pray and ask for wisdom and wisdom would then be imparted and then I would be a wise person.
Speaker 1:
[19:41] It's a transaction.
Speaker 2:
[19:42] And now, thank you, I'll take it from here because I now am a wise person. And as I have matured in my faith, I understand that like, wisdom is dependence. It's not independence. Wisdom is daily, moment by moment, going like...
Speaker 3:
[19:56] Daily download.
Speaker 2:
[19:57] What do I do here? That's exactly right. Yeah, but just like, or moment by moment, depending, like, what do I do here? Like, there is actually, the wisdom is being wise enough to know you need to go to the Lord. Like, that is part of our wisdom.
Speaker 1:
[20:11] And Jeannie, you're someone who has, you have co-written a Bible study on wisdom in the Book of Proverbs. And you have, you have so much wisdom and what it looks like to parent specifically from a spirit-filled posture and relying on the Holy Spirit. And you still, it encourages me so much to hear you say, I've been sleeping on this promise. Like, I've not been asking for wisdom. I've been saying, what are we gonna do? I mean, if I had a nickel for every time I've thought or said that recently in certain situations, it's like, I just don't know what to do. And it's okay to admit that and, but understanding that like it ultimately, the wisdom that I want is not coming from me anyway. So no kidding, I don't have it. It comes from the Lord.
Speaker 3:
[21:02] It keeps us humble. Which James talks about a lot. Humble yourself or you will be humbled.
Speaker 2:
[21:07] I mean, that's Wednesday's reading, isn't it?
Speaker 3:
[21:09] Yeah. So it's very like, it just keeps me very humble before the Lord. That 50 years later, I am still reading this going, why don't I do more of that?
Speaker 2:
[21:18] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[21:19] Right. Right. And speaking of parenting later in his letter, one of my favorite verses around parenting is in this chapter where he talks about being quick to listen and slow to speak, and slow to anger. I go to parenting a lot, I think just because there's so many humans in my home, five boys.
Speaker 1:
[21:37] And they can punch your buttons.
Speaker 2:
[21:39] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[21:41] And so my mind goes to parenting a lot when I'm reading scripture, and this is one of my favorite passages, though not written to parents.
Speaker 2:
[21:49] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[21:49] It's how much it applies to our role as parents being quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, because human anger does not accomplish God's righteousness. And it's that part of the verse that gets me every time. Like, what am I trying to do in my parenting? And when my human anger compels me in my interactions with my kids, it inflicts shame and shame never sanctifies. And so what is the hope for me?
Speaker 1:
[22:20] Shame never sanctifies. Say that again. Wow.
Speaker 3:
[22:24] That's what I thought about as I was reading this passage. My kind of shaming tone or shaming words, the spirit sanctifies, but I get to partner with him in that in my kids' lives. And so if I allow anger to lead my conversation or my actions, which y'all seriously, I knew I was feisty before I had kids.
Speaker 1:
[22:44] Oh.
Speaker 3:
[22:44] But parenting revealed a whole new level for me. Right?
Speaker 1:
[22:48] I agree.
Speaker 3:
[22:48] Right?
Speaker 1:
[22:49] Same.
Speaker 3:
[22:49] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[22:49] I mean, I'm not as, but I mean, it revealed dark parts of my heart.
Speaker 3:
[22:55] 100%. Yeah. And so it reminded me also Romans 2, 4, where it talks about the Lord's kindness is meant to lead us to repentant.
Speaker 1:
[23:04] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[23:04] And I know people feel differently about the message paraphrase.
Speaker 2:
[23:08] I love it as a tool.
Speaker 3:
[23:10] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[23:10] Love it, love it as a tool.
Speaker 3:
[23:11] So this verse is one of my favorite for the message translation.
Speaker 2:
[23:16] So helpful.
Speaker 3:
[23:17] Romans 2, 4, the message says the Lord is kind, but he is not soft. He takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into radical life change.
Speaker 2:
[23:28] Firmly by the hand.
Speaker 3:
[23:30] Yes. He's kind, but not soft. He takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into radical life change. So I've already said a lot about this, but it's a really, I think it just speaks to me a lot as a parent wanting to let the Lord lead me and being quicker to listen, slower to speak, and definitely slower to be angry, because it never accomplishes the purpose for which I am hoping for in my kids' hearts when I let anger lead, and yet it still does sometimes.
Speaker 1:
[23:59] I find that it causes such a distraction to the actual issue. When I allow myself to get angry, it's then that becomes the headline. And it's like, that was not the point, but that's on me. I know that we rely on the Holy Spirit to understand and interpret scripture. That feels, it's almost like it feels turned up several levels for me right now reading James. That like it needs, I need the wisdom that only the Holy Spirit can give. Because so much of this, I just feel like I could easily misread. If I don't think about the other things that I know to be true from scripture. So for example, what you just read about anger, well, I also know that anger is not always a sin.
Speaker 3:
[24:52] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[24:52] Because in your anger, do not sin. OK, so it's possible to be angry and not sin.
Speaker 2:
[24:57] There's a Venn diagram here.
Speaker 1:
[24:58] Right. But it does, human anger does not accomplish God's righteousness. OK, so the anger is, there's a relationship there, but it's not the thing that's going to get us where we want to go. Like, it's not the end that we're looking for. We don't just like, we're angry and this is the righteous thing. Like, no, it's hard to articulate. But then also earlier in Chapter 1, where we read about wisdom, like you just read, if any of you likes wisdom, you should ask God, who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith without doubting, for the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord, being double-minded and unstable in all his ways. Okay, doubt is also not, doubt does not equal sin. That's correct. We just read the Psalms, and there's a lot of doubt going on.
Speaker 3:
[25:57] A lot of doubt.
Speaker 1:
[25:58] And a lot of re-centering or reframing.
Speaker 3:
[26:00] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[26:01] You're casting your eyes on the Lord. Right. And we know that, I mean, when you think about Thomas, who was notorious for his doubting, but that is not the way that Jesus approached that situation. He didn't rebuke Thomas' doubt. He allowed it to be a doorway into greater faith. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 3:
[26:21] He welcomed our wrestling, right?
Speaker 1:
[26:23] And so I think part of the challenge for me and James is to not stop short of understanding, okay, what does this mean in the fullness of who we know God to be and what we know about the kingdom? Because if we just cherry pick a verse, we're going to have trouble. The doubter is like a surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. Like, you won't get anything.
Speaker 3:
[26:52] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[26:52] Well, that sounds pretty harsh, but I think that, like, we're called, like, we can have doubts, but I think that the phrase double-minded is key here. But if it's the type of doubts where we don't even actually know if we believe in the God that we're praying to, well, that's a little different.
Speaker 2:
[27:11] But when you marry that with, if any of you lacks wisdom, like, ask for it from the God who gives it generously.
Speaker 1:
[27:17] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[27:17] There's a more complete view.
Speaker 1:
[27:20] Yeah. It's about, like, we're, our doubt is not that we are ultimately trusting something or someone else. We are welcome to doubt, but the appropriate place for that doubt is still within the context of faith in God.
Speaker 2:
[27:38] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[27:39] And an in-progress faith.
Speaker 2:
[27:41] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[27:41] Which, spoiler alert, our faith is going to be in progress until we get to glory.
Speaker 2:
[27:46] I love it when you give a spoiler alert.
Speaker 1:
[27:48] Right.
Speaker 2:
[27:48] We get a spoiler alert from Amanda about once an episode.
Speaker 1:
[27:50] Spoiler alert.
Speaker 2:
[27:51] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[27:52] Until our faith is sight, it's still going to be faith.
Speaker 2:
[27:55] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[27:56] The work won't be complete until the day Jesus Christ returns.
Speaker 2:
[27:58] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[27:59] So we will all wrestle and struggle with questions and uncertainty. But I think to your point, it's is your faith anchored in the Lord and then you have that human capacity to be like, that's right. Are you going to come through?
Speaker 2:
[28:14] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[28:16] Versus, I know you're a God who can come through. It reminds me of the prayer. I know you can. I pray you would. Thy will be done.
Speaker 2:
[28:26] I love that.
Speaker 3:
[28:27] Right?
Speaker 2:
[28:27] Is that you?
Speaker 3:
[28:28] No. There was a pastor at my church who spoke.
Speaker 2:
[28:31] I love that.
Speaker 3:
[28:32] He was talking about the Lord's prayer and boiling it down to, I know you can.
Speaker 2:
[28:36] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[28:37] I pray you would. I surrender. Thy will be done.
Speaker 2:
[28:40] That's such a beautiful prayer. I love that.
Speaker 3:
[28:42] Isn't it incredible?
Speaker 2:
[28:43] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[28:44] But I think about that for this passage. It's not doubt. It's like, I know you get to decide.
Speaker 2:
[28:50] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[28:50] So I'm going to do a little bit of this maybe, because will you, won't you? But in the end, I know you're good and you're for your glory. And so now I have to submit to your will.
Speaker 2:
[29:00] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[29:01] And this analogy about the doubter is like the surging sea driven and tossed by the wind. If doubt is our rudder, then yeah, we're just going to, I mean, what a storm.
Speaker 3:
[29:12] So unstable.
Speaker 1:
[29:13] We can have doubt, but like truth is our rudder, right? Like, I mean, how many times is a parent or even a friend, do we say, feelings are not facts?
Speaker 2:
[29:24] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[29:25] Like, feelings are valid and they're present and they're real.
Speaker 3:
[29:29] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[29:29] But they aren't the determining.
Speaker 2:
[29:32] I'm trying to find where that is because I know, oh, it's in next week. I was like, the doubt being our rudder.
Speaker 1:
[29:37] No, that's in chapter one. It's right here.
Speaker 2:
[29:38] Oh, is it? So it's also in chapter two.
Speaker 1:
[29:40] Oh, is it?
Speaker 2:
[29:41] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[29:41] So I'm looking at one six.
Speaker 2:
[29:43] Oh, that's great. Well, I was looking at like in the middle of chapter three where it talks about like if we put bits in the mouth of horses or that the whole ship is steered by the rudder. In that case, we're talking about the tongue, but-
Speaker 1:
[29:54] That must have been why rudder was on the brain.
Speaker 2:
[29:57] Yeah. That's funny.
Speaker 1:
[29:59] That's interesting.
Speaker 2:
[30:00] I was like, wait a minute. I know that I have that, but it's not in my notes for this week.
Speaker 1:
[30:03] I love that that illustrates though, the part, just a tiny little glance into the importance of reading the whole thing as a letter.
Speaker 2:
[30:15] One of my favorite things about looking through old photo albums, besides seeing how cute I was as a little kid, is noticing my mom at the age I am now, quietly in the background, making the magic happen. That candid smile in the kitchen showing up in the everyday. But what if those photos didn't have to stay tucked away in an album? That's what I love about Aura Frames. It's such a simple way to keep those memories alive, not just stored somewhere, but actually on display where you see them every day. You can even preload it with photos before it arrives, which makes it such a meaningful gift right out of the box. And I love that you can keep adding photos from anywhere, anytime, so it's not just a one-time gift, it keeps growing. Whether you're honoring your own mom by displaying photos of her in your home or sending her a frame filled with moments she loves, make Mother's Day special with Aura Frames. Named number one by Wirecutter, you can save on the gifts moms love by visiting auraframes.com. For a limited time, listeners can get $25 off the best-selling Carver Mat Frame with code READSTRUTH. That's auraframes.com with promo code READSTRUTH. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.
Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[33:09] Okay, so something that I loved that we, I'm really grateful we got to read this in chapter one, because that means we get to talk with Jeannie about it. But right at the end of chapter one, I had read those final verses. I'm turning to it right now. So I'm thinking-
Speaker 3:
[33:23] One of my favorite verses.
Speaker 2:
[33:24] I know, I was like, Jeannie, let's talk about this. So I'm going to read this and then we're going to talk about it. The last two verses of chapter one, if anyone thinks he is religious without controlling his tongue, his religion is useless and deceives himself. But then verse 27-
Speaker 1:
[33:37] Casual.
Speaker 2:
[33:38] Yeah, just casually. Verse 27, pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained from the world. I read that, Jeannie, and I was like, this is the 509 foundation. This is what you've given your education to, given your life to. So much of what you've given Jeannie Cunnion's life to has been this, and I just want to hear from you about it.
Speaker 3:
[34:05] All I can say about that is that the Lord burdened my heart with that. And he burdens all of our, if we say, Lord, break my heart for the same things that break yours, he will do that. And that's just something he did for me at a young age. He broke my heart for widows. He broke my heart for orphans, because of something our family personally walked through when I was 13 years old, when my sister became pregnant at 23 and placed that baby for adoption. And so I, at a very young age, learned about a lot of these things. How do these things lead us into a deeper understanding of the Lord's heart for the vulnerable, for the voiceless?
Speaker 2:
[34:46] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[34:47] That's right. And so, yeah, so I am grateful for the things that I learned at a young age that really impacted my walk and led me to become an adoption social worker for so many years and gave me the privilege and the honor of walking alongside birth moms and families through the adoption process. But take Jeannie out of it and put Jesus into it. Like this is who he was.
Speaker 2:
[35:11] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[35:12] This is who he was. Like this is really just an invitation to live like Jesus.
Speaker 2:
[35:17] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[35:18] And to look after and to love those without a voice or those who are vulnerable. And it's interesting. I was having a conversation with somebody recently who is really wrestling with, is Jesus real? And do I want to submit my life to Jesus? And I said, you know what's so interesting? And he has a lot of doubts about who Jesus is. And I said, you know what's so interesting to me is your life and the things you care about are so similar to the Lord's. You care about the outcast, you care about the neglected, you care about the overlooked, you care about the orphan and widow. You're more like him than you want to admit already. And I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2:
[35:58] I love that. So I think that, well, I have a lot of thoughts here. One is I just love the way the Lord arranges things like guests. Like who would be our guest for this conversation and knowing that this immediately made me think of you. But what I want to say about Chapter 1, Verse 27, Jeannie is, I love what you said, like, take Jeannie out of it, put Jesus into it. This is not a call that is placed on some Christians' lives and hearts. This is a call to everyone who follows Jesus. This isn't like, well, is that really like, that must be really a special calling on your life. It can be, but this is a call to all of us to care about the orphan and the widows and the marginalized. That's exactly right. In order to look like Jesus, to walk with Jesus and to care about what Jesus cares about, that can look a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3:
[36:50] That's right. And of all the things he could have said, that's what he said, right? Like of all the things.
Speaker 2:
[36:56] Pure and undefiled religion is this.
Speaker 3:
[36:58] Yeah, of all the things he could have listed there, fill in the blank. He said to look after orphans and widows and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
Speaker 2:
[37:08] That's right. That's right. And right above that, you know, it says verse 21, therefore ridding yourselves of all moral filth and the evil that so prevalent humbly received the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. Like I love kind of pairing those two verses and looking at what does it look like to be stained from the world versus unstained from the world. And I think even that like undefiled religion, because I think that a sentence that started with defiled religion before God is this and like what would that sentence look like? But I like that we have this clear like, but here's what God wants. Like I don't look for the blood of bulls and goats, but I look for a heart that is a repentant and that wants to love me, to know me and to be like me.
Speaker 1:
[37:52] Yeah. I mean, and we'll read chapter two next week. We've read it this week, but we're going to dig in to chapter two next week. And there's the verse that's so interesting, the way it's worded in chapter two, verse eight. Indeed, if you fulfill the royal law prescribed in the scripture, love your neighbor as yourself. You are doing well. The royal law. The royal law, which is interesting. I read somewhere that's the only time that phrase is used in the New Testament, and I didn't dig into it. But I mean, Jesus is king and this is his kingdom. So this is his law. I mean, that's good enough for me. But neighbor love is not, it's just not optional. It is the furthest thing from optional. And we'll talk about this next week as well, those verses of like, you know, faith without works is dead, which is kind of like the headline. And to me it is, and I don't know if we'll read, because I haven't read week two yet. I don't know if we'll, I imagine at some point, probably read about a tree and its fruit. But that's what it reminds me of.
Speaker 2:
[39:00] It's like, we sure will.
Speaker 1:
[39:01] You'll know, you'll know they're Christians by their love, by their love, but you'll know a good tree by its fruit.
Speaker 2:
[39:08] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[39:09] And a bad tree by its fruit. And so, yeah, to look at the life of Jesus, and if we are following him and we are not caring for the least of these, as he calls them, or refers to them, then we're not following him. Because that's what he's doing.
Speaker 3:
[39:27] That's what he's doing.
Speaker 1:
[39:28] That's his ministry.
Speaker 3:
[39:29] That's practicing the way.
Speaker 1:
[39:30] That's practicing the way. Right. Another wonderful author.
Speaker 3:
[39:34] Yes. Coined that term. We're not doing chapter two today, but as it continues on this theme, I think one of the important things to keep in mind as we think about living like Jesus, looking after orphans and widows and loving our neighbor is as he gets into chapter two, talks about, but as we do that, just remember that we're not doing that to earn his love or earn his favor or earn his delight. That's evidence. It's not earning its evidence, right? So because it can be really easy to start doing those things because we want to make Jesus proud or we want to keep our Father, Heavenly Father, pleased with us. And I think his, I don't just think scripture says that his desire is that we would do those things out of love, not for love.
Speaker 2:
[40:22] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[40:22] And it can be really easy to start doing these things to please God or to think it keeps us in his favor or to look good to the world, right? I mean, our motives can get really wonky, right? And so just as we do those things, look after the orphan and the widow and the neighbor, not to earn it, but it's really evidence of if Jesus has captivated your heart and his spirit takes up residence in your life, then this is just these things are evidence of a life that goes, I can't believe I get to be loved by you. I can't believe I get to be your daughter. And because I can't believe it, I want to live a life that makes people curious about you. And man, if you want to make people curious about Jesus, look after an orphan and a widow.
Speaker 2:
[41:07] That's right. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[41:09] It's especially in certain places where the prize is prestige, right? Or fame or wealth, right? Or power. Kindness toward the orphan and the widow creates curiosity, I think, in people about Jesus. And I want that to be what my life does.
Speaker 2:
[41:31] To create curiosity. That's so good.
Speaker 3:
[41:34] Yes. I can't change your heart. I can't convince you of anything. But if you don't know Him, With my words.
Speaker 2:
[41:41] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[41:42] If I haven't, only the Holy Spirit can do that. But if you don't know Him yet, and my heart breaks over the same things that Jesus' heart breaks for, I hope that at least creates curiosity in you about this God, who or this Jesus that you haven't met yet. Or maybe you've heard really untrue or unfair things about.
Speaker 2:
[42:01] Haven't gotten to know.
Speaker 3:
[42:02] Yeah. You haven't gotten to know Him yet. Because if you do, you're done.
Speaker 2:
[42:05] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[42:06] Right? If you do, you're done.
Speaker 2:
[42:07] Which brings us back to James. This brother of Jesus, who came to believe in Jesus and walk with Jesus.
Speaker 3:
[42:17] And still didn't believe.
Speaker 2:
[42:18] And still didn't believe. But then when he did, and so then to take that context into everything that we've talked about in this episode. If we're looking at this letter from James to the 12 tribes in the dispersion, to really think about what he is saying. He's talking about this blessedness in walking humbly with Jesus. It is worth everything. Like what he's saying is just like, it's worth it all. This is who I've seen him be. This is what I've seen, heard him say. And now this is what I understand to be true. Like for him to write such a compelling, convicting, even, you know, we'll call it a toe-stepping letter, you know, for him to just go like, it's that serious. I wanted to say y'all, but he was not out of the South.
Speaker 1:
[43:06] The dispersion didn't disperse that far.
Speaker 2:
[43:08] Not yet. Not yet. But for James to write these words, knowing what we know about him, knowing that he didn't believe for a long time and then he did. And then just to go like, true and undefiled religion is this. Like, I don't know if it's more compelling to me. Like, I'm grateful to know this about James and know that context. And then to read this letter and go, yeah, you're right. To walk with Jesus is an unflashy, humbling, blessedness that the world is not going to be able to make sense of, but they're going to get really curious about.
Speaker 3:
[43:43] He even goes on later in Chapter 4 to talk about how, like, not doing it is actually a sin. Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. Right, it's not just like, oh, well, I'm not really doing what I'm supposed to do. It's like, no, sin is not just what we do. Sin can also be what we don't do.
Speaker 1:
[44:00] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[44:01] Yeah, like this, he's passionate about it.
Speaker 2:
[44:04] So it is sin to know the good and not do it.
Speaker 3:
[44:06] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[44:07] And yet not do it, he says in verse, or Chapter 4.
Speaker 3:
[44:09] Yes, end of Chapter 4. It is sin to know the good and yet not do it.
Speaker 1:
[44:14] Yeah. Speaking of a curious way of living, that I think also in Chapter 1, in verse 9, let the brother of humble circumstances boast in his exultation, but let the rich boast in his humiliation because he will pass away like a flower of field. I did like, you know how in the standardized test, you'll have a question that's like, this is to this as this is to this. It's always like humble circumstances is to exultation as riches are to humiliation. And I was like, alert, alert. Like if you're reading James from any position of comfort and like material wealth, you better have your ears on because there are warnings and instructions and it is not a joke is, I mean, there are commands in here.
Speaker 3:
[45:10] And not because the Lord doesn't love, not because it's wrong to have wealth, but because continue, right? Because I think there's people listening who might get confused by this conversation, right? Like is wealth wrong?
Speaker 2:
[45:20] Right.
Speaker 1:
[45:20] Right. But here's, I think if you have it, even if you don't, and wealth relatively speaking, it's relative.
Speaker 3:
[45:29] It's just relative. Yes.
Speaker 1:
[45:30] Right.
Speaker 3:
[45:30] All of us.
Speaker 1:
[45:31] And wealth beckons you to chase it. And whether you don't have or you do have, it begs you to chase after more. And scripture makes it pretty plain here, as well as other places in scripture, that you can't chase wealth and chase Jesus. You can't do it. And so it keeps going, for the sun rises and together with the scorching wind dries up the grass, its flower falls off, and its beautiful appearance perishes. In the same way, the rich person will wither away while pursuing his activities. The wealth is not bad. It just doesn't last.
Speaker 3:
[46:10] And it begs you to make it its idol.
Speaker 1:
[46:12] Yes. It wants you to chase it. It wants you to put your trust in it. It wants you to make it the banner over your life. That's what our culture wants us to do that.
Speaker 3:
[46:22] Right.
Speaker 2:
[46:22] Kristi McClelland talked about this in week one of The Beatitudes. She talked about whether we're looking at the world from an empire perspective or from a kingdom perspective. And empires take, whereas kingdom is tend, where empire is build, go vertical, accumulate.
Speaker 1:
[46:40] Yes. Accumulation is the word that got me.
Speaker 2:
[46:42] Accumulation and where kingdom, it's the reaching out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[46:47] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[46:48] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[46:48] The stuff is not the problem. It's our heart towards the stuff. The money is not the problem. It's our heart and the way it bends towards the money and the power.
Speaker 3:
[46:56] It creates this false narrative that we don't need the Lord because we can.
Speaker 2:
[46:59] It's that independence versus dependence that you were talking about. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[47:03] Right. And we read Wednesday, we'll read Matthew 6, 19, don't store up for yourselves treasures on earth. We know this, right? Like it's a nice little scripture put on your wall. Don't store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven. I am actively in my life being confronted right now by don't store up for yourselves treasures on earth. Because I'm like, what is this stuff and why is it here? It is in my way. Like it is taking up residence in my home, in my head.
Speaker 2:
[47:39] And in the same breath, you're kind of clicking add the cart over here.
Speaker 1:
[47:43] Same.
Speaker 2:
[47:43] On something. How dare you? I mean, one is.
Speaker 1:
[47:47] How dare you say that about me? How dare you make that true statement?
Speaker 2:
[47:50] Send me a link to that.
Speaker 3:
[47:50] Speak for yourself, Raechel.
Speaker 2:
[47:52] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[47:53] It's true. And it just, it is all about the heart. That's why James, I think, we feel prickly about it sometimes. Because he just digs right in to the matters of the heart.
Speaker 3:
[48:07] Well, he says, live like it's true.
Speaker 1:
[48:09] Live like it's true.
Speaker 3:
[48:10] If it's true, live like it's true.
Speaker 2:
[48:12] Coming from a guy who didn't believe it was true. And then he did.
Speaker 1:
[48:15] For a long time.
Speaker 3:
[48:16] Right?
Speaker 2:
[48:16] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[48:17] For a long time.
Speaker 3:
[48:19] Live like it's true. Do something. Not to earn it, but because it's true. Because it's true. Because it's changed your life.
Speaker 1:
[48:27] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[48:27] Live like you believe it.
Speaker 3:
[48:28] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[48:29] One of the first things that I learned in seminary that I just kind of put in my pocket and was like, oh, this is going to be a tool that I come back to. It's this phrase, functional theology. They're like, we have the theology that we profess and proclaim, and then we have the theology that we live. And the key is to align them, right? That we want the theology that we profess to align with the theology that we live. And when you start to really examine, there are places of misalignment. And I think that's what James is doing, as he is saying, like, if you have aligned yourself with Jesus, then here are some things that you need to reckon with.
Speaker 2:
[49:20] A word you can use here is integrity. Like, are you living an integrated life?
Speaker 1:
[49:25] Yeah, that's a great word.
Speaker 2:
[49:27] Like, is your profession of faith the same as your functional faith? Are you living an integrated life?
Speaker 3:
[49:34] Okay, so we have to bring it back to James, because I wrote the word alignment.
Speaker 2:
[49:37] Yes, perfect.
Speaker 3:
[49:39] Talking about, but the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom, and that language can be confusing, but it doesn't have to be, and perseveres in it, and is not a forgetful hearer, but a doer who works, this person will be blessed in what he does. So really what he's saying is, the person who chooses to live in alignment with their identity in Christ, who chooses to live in alignment with God's best, will no longer be a slave, right? But obedience gives freedom to who you were created to be. So when we're living in alignment, we're now free to be and fulfill all that God created us to be and to fulfill versus staying a slave to sin.
Speaker 2:
[50:23] That's good.
Speaker 3:
[50:24] Like that perfect law of freedom. It's such a beautiful expression, because we think of the law, not Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf. And so now he has purchased our freedom, but not freedom to sin, but freedom to live in alignment and to do everything that James is talking about here. To live like it's true, to live a life that reflects Christ in all of our humanity, and all of our mistakes, and all of our mess ups. Every day, I do that, mess up, make mistakes, seek forgiveness. He goes on later to one of my favorite verses about purify, cleanse your hands, and purify your hearts, and mourn over the ways that you mess up, and then receive forgiveness, and get back at the work of helping people be curious about Christ.
Speaker 2:
[51:10] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[51:10] The notion of alignment helps me so much because it reframes or clarifies the way that I read a lot of this. So, for example, the pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this. If I read that as something to like add to my list of what I need to do, I'm not saying that's inappropriate. That's actually like, yes, let's do this. I think we're called to actively obey this. However, being human, as I am, it helps me to first seek alignment with God. As you've already spoken to Jeannie, that this is an outflow. It's like, okay, if you are aligned with the kingdom, and you are following Jesus, this is what it looks like. And so in that way, it's kind of a barometer. Are you pursuing wealth and comfort above the things of God? Okay, well, that's a problem. Are you caring for-
Speaker 3:
[52:11] We could spend some time talking about that.
Speaker 1:
[52:13] We can.
Speaker 3:
[52:14] I could personally talk to that, right? Comfort.
Speaker 1:
[52:17] Oh, comfort's the thing for me. I would never say wealth is the end all be all, but when I frame it, when I think about it in terms of comfort.
Speaker 3:
[52:26] Yes. And I think that's the thing he's been trying to strip me of this last year. And I've been like, give me my comfort back.
Speaker 2:
[52:32] I mean, we've had conversations where you're like, I just want my comfort back.
Speaker 1:
[52:35] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[52:36] And he's like, a little longer, sis. But sorry, I digress.
Speaker 2:
[52:40] That's not digression. That's just real.
Speaker 3:
[52:42] It can be wealth or it could be comfort. It can be all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:
[52:45] I love that. I'm thinking about how as a community, spending those seven weeks in the Psalms, and we were really learning in that season, come to God with your whole self, come to Him as you are. And then we spent two weeks reading the Beatitudes and really kind of learning, you know, it was Jesus saying, I'm looking at you and the kingdom of God is for you, the least. And now we're in James and it's like, all right, live like it's true. If you believe the Psalms are true, if you believe the Beatitudes are true, if you believe the gospel is true, it's just this like for us as a community and for like the three of us sitting here, but like as we are on this journey of Bible reading in 2026, it's just like the Lord is just stirring and fighting, like seeing us ministering to us and then going, what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 3:
[53:38] Yeah. And don't try to do it in your own strength.
Speaker 2:
[53:40] No, no, no.
Speaker 3:
[53:42] Don't.
Speaker 2:
[53:42] Because I could listen to this conversation.
Speaker 3:
[53:44] I know who I am going back to the dependent or independent.
Speaker 2:
[53:46] Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3:
[53:47] This is not now like a pull yourself up and go live like it's true, right? It's like Holy Spirit fan the flame.
Speaker 2:
[53:55] Yeah, that's right. That's so good.
Speaker 3:
[53:56] She does it in you. You cannot do, you cannot like listen to this podcast, turn it off and be like, I'm going to go live like it's true.
Speaker 2:
[54:02] I'm going to go tend to the orphans and widows all by myself.
Speaker 3:
[54:05] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[54:05] I've got this now.
Speaker 3:
[54:06] Yeah. Like, Holy Spirit in me. The only way I can do any of this is that you become greater in me.
Speaker 1:
[54:12] That's right.
Speaker 2:
[54:13] It's good.
Speaker 3:
[54:13] I invite the Holy Spirit in you to break your heart and to sanctify you and to fan that flame that cannot be ignited or put out.
Speaker 2:
[54:24] Extinguished.
Speaker 3:
[54:24] Thank you.
Speaker 2:
[54:25] Extinguished. Got you.
Speaker 3:
[54:26] I love words. That is the only way we can do this. We cannot live like Christ without the power of Christ, do not try to do this alone.
Speaker 2:
[54:33] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[54:33] Because as beautiful as that, I love the progression that the Lord took us on from the Psalms to the Beatitudes and now to James. I love that and we need them all all the time.
Speaker 2:
[54:46] We need them all all the time. I still need the Psalms today.
Speaker 3:
[54:48] Right.
Speaker 1:
[54:49] We don't get to now. Okay. Well, now I've got my emotions figured out. I really need the Psalms. Now I'm not in any kind of, you know, like I'm still poor in spirit. Yeah. I mean, sure. But like I'm wearing it like a banner or whatever. And I don't, I'm just going to move on to like doing the thing. It's all, I love that. It's all God's word. It's all for us.
Speaker 2:
[55:11] And we need it all.
Speaker 1:
[55:11] And we're just a sweet little us. Like we don't even know what we need when we need it.
Speaker 2:
[55:17] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[55:17] Even when it comes to the scriptures that we need to like, but the Lord does.
Speaker 2:
[55:22] We're not solved.
Speaker 1:
[55:23] And the Holy Spirit is real, lives in us. And we can follow Jesus and actively take steps and like have, we can act on the conviction that the Holy Spirit has put on our hearts, even knowing that we will do that imperfectly.
Speaker 3:
[55:44] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[55:46] That's good.
Speaker 1:
[55:46] Do it imperfectly, guys.
Speaker 2:
[55:48] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[55:49] Because the risk of not doing it is too great.
Speaker 2:
[55:51] Live like it's true imperfectly.
Speaker 1:
[55:52] There you go. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[55:54] That's good. That's good. I love it. Okay, Jeannie, thank you.
Speaker 1:
[55:59] Thank you.
Speaker 2:
[56:00] That was an aggressive turn, but I was just like, I know that we're out of time.
Speaker 1:
[56:03] Rachel threw that thank you at her.
Speaker 2:
[56:04] I did.
Speaker 1:
[56:05] Like a football.
Speaker 2:
[56:06] I did.
Speaker 3:
[56:06] My answer will always be yes. I love it. Come read the word with you.
Speaker 2:
[56:10] I, and this was a good one, and this was my first experience getting to podcast with you, Jeannie. It was fun. I loved it. I loved it.
Speaker 3:
[56:16] And we can do it in person.
Speaker 2:
[56:18] I know.
Speaker 3:
[56:18] Which is amazing.
Speaker 2:
[56:19] It's nice.
Speaker 3:
[56:19] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[56:20] Just to have a friend over and talk about the Bible. Mikes are no mikes.
Speaker 3:
[56:23] That's right.
Speaker 2:
[56:24] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[56:24] I thought you meant Mike.
Speaker 2:
[56:25] Oh, yeah. Your husband Mike. Yeah, your husband can come or not. It's no big deal.
Speaker 3:
[56:30] I was like, I could have brought Mike. Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:
[56:33] Feels like he didn't come specifically. That's so funny. Thank you. Seriously, we prayed before we hit record. We always do that we would learn. And I learned from you, friend. I always do when we talk. I'm grateful for you.
Speaker 3:
[56:45] That was awesome.
Speaker 2:
[56:45] All right, friends listening, this is Monday. If you're listening on the day this was released of a week of Bible reading, of being in the Book of James. And we didn't really talk in this episode about all of the additional kind of secondary readings that were curated. We talked about some, but this is the go fast and then go slow. Like read that Book of James today. And then this week, go slow and see what else scripture has to say, because scripture is in agreement on these things. These are not new ideas as they come to us in the letter from James. So be a woman in the Word of God every day this week and then come back. Next week, we'll have Nick Connolly joining us for week 2. And then Jen Wilkin is joining us for week 3. So excited.
Speaker 1:
[57:30] And if you want to plan even further ahead, which you should, so you can get your reading guide. If you're not a subscriber, you need to get that order in. Then we're going into Morning and Dancing, y'all. That is such a beloved reading plan.
Speaker 2:
[57:44] It's been a really long time too.
Speaker 1:
[57:46] It's been a very long time since we've walked through that study together. It's a two-weeker. You're not going to want to miss that. And the book has some really important tools on moment. Just trust us. You can go to shopsheerestruth.com and save 15% with the code HOPE15.
Speaker 2:
[58:05] HOPE15. All right, friends, come back next week. But until next week, Jeannie, what do we tell our friends?
Speaker 3:
[58:13] Keep opening your Bibles.