transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:10] Thanks for tuning in to Becoming Something, where we promise to keep the conversation honest and real for young adults in their 20s and 30s. Every moment we live is training for a future moment, and that's why we do this podcast, because we want you to be prepared for everything that life is going to throw at you. Our hope with this podcast is that it would help you become all that God desires you to be. So with that in mind, let's jump right in to this week's episode of Becoming Something.

Speaker 2:
[00:46] What's up, Podcast World, it's your boy JP in the podcast studio.

Speaker 1:
[00:50] What's up, DJ JP?

Speaker 2:
[00:51] How we doing?

Speaker 1:
[00:52] It looks like you're about to spin some, what are those called, records, wheels? Spin some discs?

Speaker 3:
[00:59] See, they don't spin records anymore, right?

Speaker 2:
[01:00] Remember the, y'all know the Boots and Cats?

Speaker 1:
[01:02] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[01:02] Boots and Cats and Boots. Somebody goes, born to be clever to clever to clever clever. And they were talking about, don't do Boots and Cats say born to be clever. I was like, that's interesting. Wow.

Speaker 1:
[01:13] See, we're getting discipled on air right now.

Speaker 2:
[01:16] This is why you come to Becoming Something podcast. I was thinking about that this morning of just like, this is so weird. But like, you know, we used to freestyle, like growing up, you know, like rap. We? No, not y'all. I mean, I did. And then the first time like I prayed with friends, like first time I like really prayed out loud with a group of people, they were all like, man, where'd you learn to pray like that?

Speaker 1:
[01:42] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[01:42] And there's like, it almost like had a rhythm.

Speaker 1:
[01:44] And I was like, that's what you were doing in staff prayer.

Speaker 3:
[01:47] Learn to pray.

Speaker 2:
[01:48] That's why I thought about it.

Speaker 3:
[01:50] Wow. God doesn't waste anything.

Speaker 2:
[01:51] That's why I thought about it. Yeah. That's interesting.

Speaker 1:
[01:54] I was thinking that while you're doing that, I'm like, man, this is a skill. Like he's thinking fast the way he's saying it.

Speaker 2:
[01:59] Yeah. That's interesting that you thought I had that thought.

Speaker 3:
[02:01] Should we be reading prayers though?

Speaker 1:
[02:06] I think people pray in a way that can stir others' affections for Jesus. Like God's not like that was a better prayer.

Speaker 2:
[02:14] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[02:14] But some people prayed, I'm like, just please stop.

Speaker 2:
[02:18] People have a gift of intercession.

Speaker 1:
[02:19] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[02:20] I mean, honestly, some of the like, please stop prayers are the most beautiful because you're like, man, that's awesome. You're not.

Speaker 1:
[02:29] I'm like, I got to go to lunch.

Speaker 3:
[02:32] Do you remember how Nate literally from stage called me out and he said, don't go to her for prayer.

Speaker 1:
[02:39] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[02:39] I don't know if you heard. You're trying to rush out the door and be like, hey, let me pray real quick. I'm like, we don't have time.

Speaker 1:
[02:47] I don't know if he knows that this happened.

Speaker 3:
[02:49] No, it really did on a Sunday at the 4 p.m. I'm up there for the prayer team and he's like, as always, will people down here to pray for you? He looks at me and I see your eyes. I know where it's going. He's like, except for her, I don't think you should go to her prayers aren't good or something.

Speaker 2:
[03:03] Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3:
[03:05] No, people don't know us and our relationship.

Speaker 2:
[03:09] Well, because it's like, yeah, it's not, it's not this 4 p.m. is not streamed, so it can be a little more wheels off.

Speaker 3:
[03:14] Oh, it was very wheels off. And I was like, why do I go up with you guys?

Speaker 2:
[03:17] What was the deal though? Speaking of wheels off 4 p.m., like you were running to the stage. I like walk out the back and you're running to the stage. What was happening? She goes, oh, shoot, you saw that? Yeah, I saw that you were running to the stage.

Speaker 3:
[03:31] Was like, man, we're down a few people for the Easter choir. If you've ever wanted to be in choir, this is your moment.

Speaker 1:
[03:39] He said that.

Speaker 3:
[03:40] He said that it's 4 p.m. No one cares anymore. It's Easter Sunday.

Speaker 2:
[03:43] I'm like, it's not that no one cares anymore.

Speaker 3:
[03:45] Well, yeah, to be clear, they care so much. But, you know, we're a little more free spirited. And I literally the crowd, like the people I sit with, like everyone around me just looks at me, and I was like, is this my moment? They're like, go Kathy, go Kathy. So I get past Hannah Henderson's pregnant self. I like push past. I start literally running down, and I see four other people go up to the stage.

Speaker 2:
[04:08] And I was like, you didn't make it.

Speaker 3:
[04:10] They beat me. But Drew didn't see me, and the whole crowd was like, no, go, go.

Speaker 2:
[04:14] Presley's a girl at your own heart, because she was right behind you, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[04:17] But I was like, Floor was like, no, you're on stage enough.

Speaker 2:
[04:20] I had room for more. Why didn't he just do like 10?

Speaker 3:
[04:24] I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[04:24] Being an inquirer would be my nightmare.

Speaker 2:
[04:28] And you're like, I'm in.

Speaker 3:
[04:29] Yeah, for sure I'm in.

Speaker 2:
[04:30] I'm totally doing it.

Speaker 3:
[04:30] We all know.

Speaker 2:
[04:32] You're off key this morning. It was like, really, on the really loud part, you were, you were, you were, you were knocked down. Just so you know, I'm just like, this is what I do. Why is that weird? I mean, come on. That's where you guys fell out. That's where I lost you.

Speaker 4:
[04:50] Oh, that's so offensive.

Speaker 3:
[04:52] You, I'm literally trying not to think about how I sound and being worried about what people are thinking about me. And you're over here telling me that I was an offender.

Speaker 1:
[05:01] I'm trying to be a friend to you. JP is a coach to his core.

Speaker 2:
[05:05] I'm trying to be a friend to you. It was that it was the one. I mean, usually it's really pretty. And that one note, I was just like, oh, she missed that note. That was a big one. That's a big one to miss. That's a big note to miss, man. That's all.

Speaker 3:
[05:22] I'm laughing, but I'm also crying.

Speaker 2:
[05:23] That's all I'm saying. It was real loud, and it was just an octave off. But I usually love your singing. Typically, I'm like, wow, that's really good.

Speaker 1:
[05:38] He's a developer. He's going to make you better. He really is.

Speaker 3:
[05:42] There should be some moments that you don't need to be developed.

Speaker 2:
[05:45] I'm always off, to be clear. I don't care. Nobody seems to get on board my little echo that I do. What's that song?

Speaker 1:
[05:54] I did have that thought. I had that thought this morning. I'm like, I love that he's going for it.

Speaker 2:
[05:59] I go for it, man.

Speaker 1:
[05:59] In your lungs, in your lungs.

Speaker 2:
[06:02] Yeah, nobody cares.

Speaker 1:
[06:04] It's your breath.

Speaker 2:
[06:07] Are you good? Did I hurt your feeling?

Speaker 3:
[06:09] I think you did a little bit. It's because I wasn't, like, I obviously know it wasn't like the perfect note, but I'm also thinking, I'm trying not to overthink it.

Speaker 2:
[06:18] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[06:18] I know I'm a loud singer, but I also for me to not sing fully is like not fully engaging. So I'm trying to turn off the people pleaser in me.

Speaker 2:
[06:26] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[06:26] And what are people thinking? And so you go for it. You're a little loud. And then your boss says you're off key and you're like, Oh, man.

Speaker 2:
[06:36] Will you? I believe that my words hurt you in saying that, will you please forgive me? Because that is one, not my intentions to hurt you. Two, I really value that gift that you bring truly and sincerely. And I thought you'd want to know, which is why I did. And I'm thinking that through. I'm like, she probably didn't want me to do that on the air with a million people listening. So will you please forgive me?

Speaker 3:
[07:07] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[07:08] Thank you. Is that sure sincere?

Speaker 3:
[07:10] It is sincere.

Speaker 2:
[07:11] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[07:11] But you also don't ever have to correct me on how I sing in Staff Rare.

Speaker 2:
[07:15] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[07:16] Just to be super clear.

Speaker 2:
[07:17] Okay. All right, we'll just go for it.

Speaker 3:
[07:20] Should we talk about the boot? We're there correcting, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:24] That's what we talked about at Staff Rare a week before. A week before.

Speaker 3:
[07:30] Oh, man.

Speaker 1:
[07:31] Hey, should we bring in a fourth person?

Speaker 2:
[07:34] Who are you talking about?

Speaker 1:
[07:35] To the podcast to break the ice. They can have my spot. I don't know. Someone called in. Skylar.

Speaker 2:
[07:41] Oh, yeah. Okay. I was like, what are you talking about? It's almost over.

Speaker 1:
[07:44] Yeah, Forest, walk in.

Speaker 2:
[07:46] It's almost over.

Speaker 3:
[07:49] What to do if your boss critiques you?

Speaker 1:
[07:53] Hey, Fortons Worth, he's critiqued me probably more than you.

Speaker 2:
[07:55] That's true.

Speaker 3:
[07:56] I don't know, man.

Speaker 2:
[07:57] No, for sure. Without a doubt.

Speaker 1:
[07:59] He works like five hours a week. I'm here more. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2:
[08:02] Without a doubt, that's true. Probably more than anybody up here.

Speaker 4:
[08:07] Hey, this is Skyler and Cole, calling in from Dallas.

Speaker 2:
[08:10] What's up, Skyler and Cole? What's up?

Speaker 4:
[08:12] I have a question for y'all as far as work and really pursuing something, working hard. What's the difference between, I guess, working hard and making work your God? Really interested to hear what y'all say. Thank you. Bye.

Speaker 2:
[08:32] I thought he was like dropping the mic. I thought he was like, what's the difference between working hard and making work your God?

Speaker 1:
[08:40] So a critique of you is that?

Speaker 3:
[08:44] Yeah, we might disagree on this episode.

Speaker 1:
[08:47] Oh, interesting.

Speaker 3:
[08:48] Yeah, I'm going to start it off.

Speaker 2:
[08:49] Well, get prepared to disagree with the Bible. That's all I'm bringing in this episode is the Bible.

Speaker 1:
[08:56] A critique of you is that you work too much and you're gone a lot.

Speaker 3:
[09:02] You don't turn off well from work.

Speaker 2:
[09:04] A critique of me from who?

Speaker 3:
[09:06] People. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[09:07] Yeah, people.

Speaker 2:
[09:08] Nobody's telling me that.

Speaker 3:
[09:09] Really? You don't ever hear.

Speaker 1:
[09:13] Okay. So I was talking to you recently about something. I'm like, man, what do you think about this stuff? We're talking about staff. You're like the CEO of the church. I'm like, what do you think about this stuff? And you're like, man, I wake up at 2 AM thinking about this. Work feels like your life. In many ways, it's like your hobby. I know your hobby is like buying and selling stuff. Is that good? Is that healthy? Is that what God wants us all to do or not? Or are you obsessed with it?

Speaker 2:
[09:42] Yeah, that's funny. I mean, the irony that that's a critique because it's really not the one that I... It's not the one that lives in my head. I woke up this morning thinking about how the enemy is such an accuser. And I think there's this other demographic of people, because everything in the church world and ministry world is a dichotomy. Wherever there's like, there's criticism on both sides of everything. And so I think there's people that are like, when does this guy ever work? He's always going somewhere. You know what I mean? He's always doing some fun. He's always going somewhere. When does he ever work? And then you hear this phrase a lot, like, work-life balance. And then you have the stigma of PK, like a pastor's kid, a preacher's kid. And so, I operate in more of a work-life integration, because if you think about your priorities in life, it's like, first and foremost, God. Like, God is my number one priority. Second is friends and family, or family and friends. And then third would be work, and like the provision for the friends and family. And I think in ministry, a lot of one and three can push out two. And so, it's like for me, it's like, I'm always bringing a kid with me if I go somewhere. You know, yeah, leadership, the leadership responsibility is heavy. I mean, that's why the middle of the night wake ups, where it's just like, oh man, tomorrow I'm going to have to. I mean, there's just always something weighty. We get done with the Easter service, and you go to a pastoral care meeting that goes late into the night. You know, that's always something weighty.

Speaker 1:
[11:21] I've learned, I feel like I've learned that recently, talking to Adily, and I'm like, leadership is just harder than what I thought it was.

Speaker 2:
[11:29] When you're not a leader and you hear the word leadership, it has no teeth, it doesn't mean anything. But then when you move into leadership, all of a sudden you're like, wow, all of these people are coming into a room for a period of their lives, for a time, that they are expecting me to lead with vision and inspiration and to move them in a common direction. And then all of a sudden, it has a lot of weight.

Speaker 1:
[11:54] It's just easy to critique the decisions of people in leadership when you're not in the room for those decisions.

Speaker 2:
[12:00] I thought about that this morning, even as people come after the Congress and the House of Representatives and senators and the president, and it's just like, man, they have so much more intel than we do. As a leader, I have a lot of empathy for people who are misunderstood. It's been well said that leadership is a commitment to being misunderstood. And I just think there's a lot of times you have people not in leadership looking towards leaders just throwing stones. I mean, just show me something that I can throw stones at. And but podcast is about work, you know, making work your god. And it's like, work's a miserable god. Even in ministry, work's a miserable god. Like work, my work, my task is not my god.

Speaker 3:
[12:56] Do you ever fall prey to that though?

Speaker 2:
[12:58] Making work my god? I don't think so. But maybe it's a giant blind spot. I can't see. I'm certainly open to that.

Speaker 1:
[13:05] If you feel like you walk off stage and you're like, man, that was not my best sermon.

Speaker 2:
[13:10] I think that would be approval of man. Making approval of man my god. So people pleasing for sure. And preaching and anything that involves a spotlight, worship leading. Anytime you're given a moment to perform, I think you can make the opinion of others our god, right? And it lives, we really live for the opinion of one, right? And so I don't think that's my bent, right? But it is a ditch I can fall in. How would you think we would disagree?

Speaker 3:
[13:47] Oh, well, I think I believe more in a work life balance. Like I think you say that's a myth and I'm like, I get it's a myth and it's just such an important part of how I make decisions.

Speaker 2:
[13:58] Yeah, like how so?

Speaker 3:
[13:59] Well, like for me, the decision to work part time stems from the fact that I don't trust myself. Like I want to put a limit on my hours so that I can be really intentional with my kids. There are some women who can work full time and then still be really present with their kids, but I feel like I have a capacity. And so it's like I really want to protect and guard that.

Speaker 2:
[14:21] Yeah. And I think a lot of ministry, and it's not exclusive to ministry, there's a lot of jobs are this way that are task driven. I'm sorry, project driven.

Speaker 3:
[14:32] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[14:33] So it's like you can do, you can work part time, but it's going to ebb and flow because ultimately, you're in charge of this ministry. And so like on the times and the seasons when that ministry gathers, that's going to be a long day and you can adjust your life accordingly. Well, for me, that is a weekly thing. That event is every week. So every week I have to write a term paper, get to write a term paper that is due and it's pass fail. And I've got to turn it in every single week. I'm talking about a sermon, just so not to be cryptic, right? Every week we have to write a sermon, every week we're going to give that sermon to thousands of people. Every week you hope the Spirit of God moves. And you can be right now, you can be like, yeah, isn't that God? Doesn't that have to be the Holy Spirit? Sure, but it seems like the Holy Spirit has an affinity for preparation, because it's not a secret, that it seems that the Spirit of God moves when the sermon is worked on and prepared well, versus when you just go up there and you're ill-prepared, and you're not fully understanding the text that you're teaching, and your illustrations aren't connected to the text, and you're phoning it in.

Speaker 1:
[15:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what would it look like if work was your God?

Speaker 2:
[15:51] Well, let's back up and say, what's the theology on work? Why do we work? Do we need to enjoy our work? Is there a passage? Can you think of a passage? So if we're reading the Bible on a deserted island, does the Bible seem to teach that you should do something you're passionate about?

Speaker 3:
[16:13] Well, the Bible does talk about how we're gifted and like how God created us with good works. He's prepared in advance for us to do. So that does lend me towards, yeah, he's given us tasks specifically in ones that are created with our unique wiring.

Speaker 2:
[16:27] Guys, there's a lot happening in the news right now.

Speaker 3:
[16:31] And I know all about it.

Speaker 2:
[16:32] How do you know about it?

Speaker 3:
[16:33] Because of the Pour Over app, which tells me everything I need to know in bite size chunks, not too overwhelming.

Speaker 2:
[16:41] With the biblical worldview.

Speaker 3:
[16:42] Three days a week.

Speaker 2:
[16:43] Dude, I'm OG Pour Over, and somehow like you're coming in late in the game.

Speaker 3:
[16:47] But if you go to pourover slash Kathy, I think it takes you straight to the app where you can download this. So I'm sure.

Speaker 1:
[16:53] Hey, and if at checkout you do the code BISO, you get 10% extra news.

Speaker 4:
[16:59] No, I think you're making...

Speaker 2:
[17:00] That's not true.

Speaker 1:
[17:01] That's not true.

Speaker 2:
[17:02] Okay. Hey, you guys check out the Pour Over app. It's in the app store, free to you.

Speaker 3:
[17:06] Highly recommend.

Speaker 2:
[17:07] We love it.

Speaker 3:
[17:07] They're amazing.

Speaker 2:
[17:08] It's going to be helpful. It's very important. And I'll answer the question in what I believe the scripture says, is the Bible says you should be passionate about your work, not necessarily that you should do what you're passionate about. So it's where you put the... The order of the question and the answer really matters. Let me explain. It doesn't mean that your job should fit you like a, you know, well-tailored sweater, that you're looking for a specific job that meets your needs. What it does say is whatever you do, you should work at it with all your heart, as though you're working for the Lord, since you know it's the Lord Jesus Christ you receive a reward from. So the passion is applied to the task that you're doing, not saying, let me find a task that fits the passion that I have. That's the, does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[18:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:02] So it's like, do I need to love what I do? Yes, you need to love what you do. You don't need to do what you love.

Speaker 1:
[18:11] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:11] Okay? So that's the difference. If our passion comes from Christ, then any job is a mission field. And so some of the people who are the strongest believers, and maybe with like the strongest calling to ministry, or like I'm intentionally never going to work for a church, or a 501c3 non-profit, because I want to be a minister in the secular world. I want to make an impact over here. And that was my greatest regret, looking back on my time at AT&T, is I went through two security checkpoints. I had a clearance badge. I'd go through two security checkpoints every morning. I'd be on the eighth floor of AT&T in a sea of cubicles, surrounded by lost people as a believer. Then I'd become a Christian. Five years later, I'm called into vocational ministry. And like now, it would be easier for me to get into Saudi Arabia than it would to get on the eighth floor of Belfort Tower, downtown Dallas, right? It's like that's a mission field that I don't have clearance to get into right now. It's crazy to think about. And so your work becomes an idol when the fruit of your work is feeding your addictions, feeding your narcissism, feeding your selfishness. And you see this a lot on Wall Street. It's like, you know, we think of like a 40-hour work week where people on Wall Street will often work 80 hours. I mean, it's one of the highest places of suicide on the planet because they get so attached to making money and losing money, candidly. You know, they ride the rollercoaster so much. I mean, they're making these, I'm saying, bets and air quotes, placing, you know, buying stock, buying and selling options. And their heart gets so wrapped into it. Essentially, they're, they're a lot of people, not everybody, I don't want to be overly general, but a lot of people are addicted to that gambling.

Speaker 1:
[20:17] Right.

Speaker 2:
[20:18] And, and that can happen for any one of us. But there's going to be times like you're, you know, I was, I was talking with your husband this past week around Easter. And it's like, hey, this is, this is our Super Bowl, like Easter and Christmas. That's, those are like, those are the times where we're like, we got to figure out, we're pulling all-nighters, you know, this and that, like that. That's just what we do. It's what I do. It's, it's what he does. And someone goes, man, that's not fair. Like that, you shouldn't do that. That's not healthy. It's like, sure it is. Like, sure. It's not healthy to what? What's not healthy? Like, what, what is it? You're going to tell a nurse, it's not healthy to work the night shift? Like, what is it that's not healthy? I went to physical therapy the day after Easter. And my physical therapist was like, yeah, I was here until five yesterday. I was like, you had to work yesterday? She goes, oh yeah, of course. She goes, yeah, we, you know, every Easter I work. It's like, we often see the lens through our experience. And it's like, how many hours a week should we work? Somebody. Well, 40.

Speaker 3:
[21:17] 40 is like an average full-time working week.

Speaker 2:
[21:21] Yeah, but how many hours should we work? Like, 40 is made up number. That's not from the scripture.

Speaker 3:
[21:28] I do think the scripture, and God does put limits on our body. I think, like, we...

Speaker 2:
[21:34] 100% true.

Speaker 3:
[21:36] There's not a number in scripture. For sure.

Speaker 2:
[21:39] But, like, for sure, like, God puts limits on our body. In an agrarian society, I mean, the kindness of God to even turn off the lights. He's like, and He made our bodies... Like, He could have made... He didn't need to make sleep necessary. But He made these things. That's so interesting. Like, He made us, like, these kinds of machines that run on things. The fuel that we run on, food, water, and sleep, right? Like, necessary to survive. You can't live... Like, you literally cannot live without sleep. You cannot live without food. You cannot live without water. So, He made us dependent on these things. And so, for sure, like, if our work is causing us to not eat, not drink, not sleep, absolutely. But most of the time, our problems with work is an outlook issue. People are like, Oh, I hate my job. I hate my job. If your job is sin, do you know that you should hate it? Like, you shouldn't sin. Like, nobody should force you to sin. But if your job is just like, I hate it because I'm just not passionate about it, there's a very good chance that's a hard issue. Because I don't know that the Apostle Paul was passionate about making tents. There's nothing in the scripture that would imply that that was like his, you know, that met his passion needs, but it funded his ministry. And I think that's a right outlook on work. Another one is to provide for those, to be generous. Says, whoever does not provide for his family, especially his immediate family, the body of believers, especially his immediate family, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Like, how do you know the Bible says it's worse than an unbeliever? It's like, if you don't work. And then he's like, most of the people that the scripture is talking to informing our theology on work are people who were like 24-hour employees. Think about that. They're bond servants. It's crazy. So he says in Titus 2 10, work in such a way that you make Christ our Savior attractive. So the vast majority of the time we're having a conversation around the theology of work, our worldview is coming up against, like our opinion is coming up against like a cultural narrative that has to be biblically informed. Now, right about now, I'm opening myself up to like, look, he's spiritually abusive and he's asking, no man, I want like, candidly, like for our team, like if the kids are out of school, it's like, man, I want you home. If you can be, like be home. I want you with your kids. I want you with your family. Like I want to prioritize those memories. And at the same time, like if they're not home, you know, or you're free and we can like brainstorm or do this together, it's like, I want this to be the best place to work on the planet Earth. I want people to love working here. I want them to love what they do, but you know, they may be able to do what they love, but that's a privilege, not a priority, if you know.

Speaker 1:
[24:56] I think the reality is for most young adults, work hasn't become their god, their free time has become their god, and that's a word. And it's like, man, work is just keeping me from doing whatever I want, and you're making me work more because I want to go to brunch with my friends.

Speaker 2:
[25:10] I wrote Welcome to Adulting because I had the same conversation over and over and over. And it was like, I graduated from college and now this is it?

Speaker 1:
[25:19] Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:
[25:20] This is it? Like, this is what I went to school for 16 years for? Yep. This rat race? You know, I'm stepping on, I'm thinking about going back to take the GMAT. This thing that you hated doing your whole life, now I'm going to go back and do that because this ain't it, you know?

Speaker 1:
[25:37] So real.

Speaker 2:
[25:38] And like, I'm going to go to grad school now because it's like, gosh, this ain't it. And I'm like, gosh, so much of your disappointments come from your expectations. If you expect to work to be hard, like work is hard because of sin. That's what he says in Genesis 3. Now it's toilsome. Like you're going to do it and it's going to fight against you. But work existed before the fall, and it will exist when Jesus puts everything back together. Like we will work in heaven.

Speaker 3:
[26:06] I never knew that until we talked to Jordan Rainer on the podcast, and I read Garden City by John Mark Homer. I thought heaven's fun and worship, whatever. But it's like you'll have a job to do.

Speaker 2:
[26:19] Yeah, you will work in heaven.

Speaker 3:
[26:20] Because work is not the issue, it's our attitude towards it.

Speaker 2:
[26:23] That's exactly right.

Speaker 1:
[26:25] And you said this before, but being able to choose your own career is a recent thing.

Speaker 2:
[26:31] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:31] Like you used to be born into a farmer's family and you were a farmer.

Speaker 3:
[26:36] Can you imagine if you were a farmer?

Speaker 1:
[26:37] Yeah, if I was a farmer.

Speaker 2:
[26:38] So just to highlight, like I don't think we disagree, but I also don't think maybe that you're prioritizing, that you're defining your priorities correctly, because I'm like, you have, you work around the clock.

Speaker 3:
[26:52] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[26:53] Like when you're not working at Harris Creek, like you're thinking work in context of your job, your occupation, where you earn a paycheck. But you get off this job and you start another job. And now your priority is to make sure that those kids are well taken care of. And so you and Matt have to come into an agreement on how that happens. And the reality of it is one of you or both of you are going to be working all the time and coming to an agreement and figuring out, all right, when do I need a break? And how do I get that break? And that's what Monica and I do. It's like, if you look at Monica and I, people are all the time like, oh, have her on the podcast and do this. It's like, she don't want to be. She is doing what she loves. Like she is doing her favorite job. And it's not just staying at home and walking the dog. And she's running the household. Like she is the executive of all of the comings and goings. And if we were a twofer, like if we were traveling and speaking together and doing all that, which works for some people, like that would not work for us at all. Because I go so hard that she's like, hey, I'm going to hold this together. And that's our agreement. And it's like, man, I want to make sure. And I would say, I mean, realistically, and this is probably surprised some people, like I think we spend more time together as a family than just about anybody I know.

Speaker 3:
[28:21] I don't know about that.

Speaker 2:
[28:22] I mean, but it's true. I mean, ask.

Speaker 3:
[28:25] It feels like you're gone a lot at like nights or you're gone, you know, quick trips.

Speaker 2:
[28:31] You know who's gone a lot?

Speaker 3:
[28:32] Well, yeah, Monica.

Speaker 2:
[28:34] No, no, not Monica.

Speaker 1:
[28:36] She's never gone.

Speaker 3:
[28:37] One minute, she goes with you. I thought that's where you're going. She does travel with you.

Speaker 2:
[28:41] Oh, no, she really doesn't. I mean, very rarely does she go with me. Very rarely. And she has no desire to. But who's gone a lot is my kids. You're not there yet. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[28:52] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[28:52] So you just wait. You just wait. Like last night. I mean, I mean, like last night's a great example. Like I am sitting at home with nothing to do. Bored out of my mind. Wow. And it's like, well, you could do a family game night. I'm like, I could, except for like Finley's out running around. Like she's doing stuff. She's going to see a movie with friends and hanging out. And it's like once they hit 16, everything changes. And then West, well, what about West? And he's 13. He's like, yeah. But he's got a dirt bike that he rides around the neighborhood. He's out playing with friends. And so, you know, we have dinners as a family and we'll do, you know, watch a movie or play a game. But yeah, man, is they, they're staggered just enough. We're like, Presley's out of the home. And yeah, you know, it's funny because we're, we literally as a family, we're just talking about this. And I think they, I think my kids would agree.

Speaker 3:
[29:45] I actually asked Presley.

Speaker 2:
[29:46] In comparison with their friends, that we spend more family time.

Speaker 3:
[29:51] I asked her, I was like, is it like hard? Or I was like, what's it been like just being a pastor's kid? Honestly, because Matt and I are raising pastor kids, like what are advice? And she was like, yeah, my dad traveled, but not any more than some of my other friends' dads. And a lot of times I got to go with him. Like she didn't have a negative perspective. But again, I think it's your attitude towards how you approach it and how you bring them along and you integrate it. So I'm like, that's that's something to definitely wrestle through and think about.

Speaker 2:
[30:18] So when I was in business consulting, I traveled once a month. But what I did was I sell professional services and the people that I essentially was selling their services, they travel five days a week. So and these are all moms and dads. And so Monday morning, they get on a plane, they fly somewhere and they stay there till Friday at 5 p.m. And then they come home. And it's just like everybody works a different rhythm. You know, it's like if you're in the oil field, you're two weeks on, one week off, two weeks, you're gone for two weeks. You're home. If you're a fireman, you know, you're doing, you know, 24 hours. I don't know what it is exactly, but it's like 48 hours or 72 hours. And then you get 48 hours off and then you're back. And so everybody works different things. We just kind of see the world through the lens of what we see it through. And where I think we get in a bind in ministry is we try to embrace like the bankers hours and the bankers holidays. But it's like, to get a Monday off for me if my kids are in school is a real beat down because it's like it just throws off our rhythms because it's still like Sunday still coming. So I didn't get the sermon prep Monday. Now I've got to move the sermon prep meeting to Tuesday. And it's just a real whippin.

Speaker 1:
[31:37] Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3:
[31:39] So I feel like our listeners' questions were like.

Speaker 1:
[31:45] How do you know if you're working hard or working for the Lord?

Speaker 3:
[31:48] Yeah, and like, is there a point where you can work too much? And how do you know you're at that point? Especially because there is an hour set in the Bible.

Speaker 2:
[31:57] I think you had a great answer to that is like, man, if it's impacting your health, you're for sure working too much. But you don't want to just compare yourself to others, and it's because all the jobs are different.

Speaker 3:
[32:11] And everyone's capacities is different too. Your capacity for travel is different than mine. So if I were to compare my life to yours, I'm going to not be working. It's going to look different.

Speaker 2:
[32:22] And if the only way you could provide for your family was travel, you would do so. Yeah. And so the other thing I would say is, oh man, what was I going to say? Oh, it's motive, the reason you work. Like this is motive matters most. And so if you're working without a ministry mindset in the secular world, like you're missing it, like God called you to know him and then he sent you to a mission field, whether that's corporate America or Starbucks or whatever it is.

Speaker 1:
[32:55] Doing Young and Old Ministry, it like you just you don't realize how much free time you have and how, everyone's got different problems. But once you have kids, what you mentioned before, how she goes home and works, I'm like, that's how I feel every single day, like a day off yesterday. I'm like, I don't, it's, it's, it's, it's totally being at work is, is easier in so many ways than being at home. So it's like, if you don't, if you don't figure out your work ethic now, like being a stay-at-home mom, that's not just easy and sipping coffee. It's like, you really got to figure out, I need to love to work hard. Because otherwise you just, life isn't going to go very well.

Speaker 2:
[33:41] Well, I mean, that's like, we talk about that in our family a lot. I mean, that's a great word. Like I need to love to working, I need to love working hard.

Speaker 1:
[33:50] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[33:51] Man, that is true. Cause you're gonna have to work hard one day. And the best job, like the job that you're most suited to do, you're only going to love 80% of it. Like there's always a 20% grind. Like there's always 20% that you have to do that you don't enjoy. Even in the job that's like the best suited for you, you know, if you, I don't even know, if you love people, well, there's still gonna be emails, there's still gonna be expense reports, there's still gonna be administrative work. If you're like, I love administrative work, well, there's still gonna be people, you know, there's still gonna be social things. And so whatever your job is, you're probably only gonna get 80% there. And you see this all the time in young adults because they're like, oh, man, I got my, you know, I interviewed, I got my dream job, it's my dream job. And you talk to them, you know, six months later, and they're like, I quit, that job is terrible. It's like, dude, I thought it was your dream job. And like, well, I thought it was. You have this like grass is greener mindset. At some point, you realize like, man, you're gonna have to grind, you gotta grind.

Speaker 1:
[34:56] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[34:57] So anyways, there's a lot more. I think we should probably do a round two on that. But that's enough for today. We good?

Speaker 3:
[35:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:07] You sure?

Speaker 3:
[35:08] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[35:08] Hey, I love your singing. Okay. I really do.

Speaker 3:
[35:12] Just embarrassed. And you can't just like take that feeling away, you know? Yeah. You can forgive, but it's like, oh.

Speaker 2:
[35:19] Well, thanks. I'm sorry. I really am sorry. I embarrassed you. Hey guys, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next week. Bye.

Speaker 1:
[35:39] Thanks for tuning in to Becoming Something, where we promise to keep the conversation honest and real for young adults in their 20s and 30s. Every moment we live is training for a future moment, and that's why we do this podcast, because we want you to be prepared for everything that life is gonna throw at you. Our hope with this podcast is that it would help you become all that God desires you to be. To find out more, visit becoming something.com.