transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] We have had so many guests on this show talk about how powerful the outdoors can be for kids, especially kids with ADHD or different ways of learning and processing the world. And if you are raising a child with ADHD, dyslexia, a language disorder, or really any kind of learning difference, I want to share a podcast that I think you'll really appreciate. It's called Everyone Gets a Juice Box. It's parents just being honest with each other in a really safe, welcoming space about the highs and lows of raising neurodivergent kids. And what I love about it is how real it is. There was one story about a mom who had this big career running a major podcast division, and she realized she hadn't been home to see her daughter before bed for weeks. And at the same time, she was starting to notice these little moments, like her daughter freezing up during a simple preschool performance and just having that gut feeling like something's different here. And then all the doubt that comes with that, like other people saying she seems fine while you're sitting here thinking, but I'm her parent and I know her. This mom eventually stepped back in and reconnected and created little games together just to help her daughter communicate better. It's such a good reminder that connection doesn't have to be complicated. It just has to be intentional. So, if that interests you, go check it out. To listen, search for Everyone Gets a Juice Box in your podcast app. That's Everyone Gets a Juice Box. Welcome to The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast. My name is Ginny Yurich and the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I'm here with someone who has a book launching this week. Go get your copy. Rachel Kovac, the author of Their Future Is Shining Bright, a guide to homeschooling in high school and equipping your child for success and fulfillment in adulthood. Rachel, congratulations.

Speaker 2:
[01:29] Thank you, Ginny.

Speaker 1:
[01:30] Okay, book launch week can kind of be hard. You kind of feel like the world should stop because it's so much work to make a book. And to like, okay, the process is you have to write a proposal, then you have to pitch the proposal. So like for the two of us, it's like, okay, I've been a mom for the last however many years. I'm like, I've never talked to any professionals in 20 years. You know, right? So they like throw you in this Zoom meeting with people who have like actual jobs, you know, on a day to day, and you have to be like, act like you kind of feel that way too. So then you have to pitch, you have to pitch yourself. And then, you know, you might not get any offers, you might get one, you might get three, and then it becomes this like pitting against each other and more meetings. And then, okay, so then you're like, fine, I got this book. There's a contract, you know, does a contract make sense? And then this isn't even you haven't read the book yet. And then you have to write it. That's a whole process in and of itself. And I know you've been so meticulous and so caring. You're like, I want to make sure that this is the resource, like this is the resource for homeschooling through high school. You can pick it up when your kid is seven, and you're sort of a little bit shaky need about what's to come. You can pick it up when your kid is 12, you can pick it up when they're 14, you know, and you're in that spot of like, trying to sort of sort these things out. Be like, okay, I want this to be the best book. I've rewritten sections, we've changed the order. I'm going to add this appendix that's got all of these job opportunities that don't require college degree. There's like 30 pages of that. So they write the whole book. Then they're like, how are you going to market it? So then you have to make all these pre-order bonuses and you have to learn a whole new skill set. Like, does my microphone work? Like, I'm going to interview these people. I've got to figure out how to distribute that. And then I've got to put up a website. And then the book comes out and you're like, okay, I've got to go on these podcast interviews. Maybe I have to do other interviews. And that's a whole new skill set. You might be on an interview for 90 seconds. Like, what am I supposed to say in 90 seconds? Or it might be an hour, it might be 30 minutes. And then the day of the book launch comes in, like nothing really happens.

Speaker 2:
[03:41] Yeah. In a way, it's an ending. So many of the podcasts that you do, you do before. So it's like, it's a beginning for the book, but it's the ending of a really long process.

Speaker 1:
[03:52] Yeah. So it's just kind of bizarre. I talked to this lady once who said, someone came over her house and brought her some balloons. And it was like a lady, she didn't know very well for her book launch. She brought balloons and basically like, that was it. That was like the only thing that happened. And so it just is this sort of bizarre thing. So I just want to hugely congratulate you on book launch week for making it through that entire process. And the beginning now, the beginning is a good one because what this is, is getting a resource into the hands of families who desperately need it, of families who adore homeschooling, have loved it throughout the whole childhood, and feel unequipped to continue through high school, or to families who feel the burnout of the rigmarole of these years or too much homework, whether it's bullying or there's a lot of peer pressure, and they would like to exit that system, but they don't feel that they are equipped. So this book is their book. It is available now. Go grab your copy. Their Future Is Shining Bright. This is one to read over the summer with your friends, get together and read it with your friends. Also, I think it would be a great summer to go through the different vocation ideas that are in the third appendix. There's three appendix, I always mess that one up. But to start to talk through what are the different kinds of categories of jobs that are out there and what might you see yourself doing? Can we go rub shoulders with other people who do these things? So I hope it's a wonderful week for you when this actually goes.

Speaker 2:
[05:21] Thank you. Some people described it as being like a wedding or having a baby, where there's such a big lead up and then it's there and then you're just living your life. I thought that was an interesting comparison. Would you agree?

Speaker 1:
[05:34] No, no. I feel like it's like a big hole. It's like if you're leading up to having the baby, well, then you have a baby or the wedding, then you go on your honeymoon. My experience was like, it's out.

Speaker 2:
[05:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[05:52] But this is one that's going to have a long tail effect obviously because this is going to be such a helpful resource and one that doesn't exist. So we've talked some about the book before. People can go back to the last podcast episode and listen. I'll be talking about some different things today as this book is launching into the world. One of the things I want to kick it off with is what I have noticed, and what you frame this book up as is, there are so many resources out there for homeschooling during the younger years. There's a lot of things. If you've got an eight-year-old, if you've got a six-year-old, if you've got a preschooler, do you know a lot of these homeschool conventions and conferences, they will offer you to go for free if you have a preschooler. You're thinking about it. You don't even have to pay for a ticket. You're allowed, not all of them, but some of them are like that. You get to go for free. But you don't get that when your kid is 12, and you're about to head into high school. It feels that we're heavy on resources, number one. That's one of the things that you talk about. For the younger years, but I think we're also heavy on the why for the younger years. The why for the younger years, a lot of times is the four-year-old only gets a 20-minute recess for an eight-hour school day or a seven-hour school day. The why is, you know, a lot of times it's that, right? My kid wants to move. The why is, they gave my five-year-old an iPad to do their work on. The why is, you know, those types of things. We talk about child development in those years and better late than early, that type of stuff. But I don't think there's much out there about the why. That's really what I want to kick it off with, the why for high school, especially since adolescence is a huge brain change period, similar to infancy. This is the only two major brain change periods, is even, I think, more significant than a five-year-old or a six-year-old starting off at school. So if you were to cast a vision for someone who has not really considered why, you know, okay, yeah, my seven-year-old, I want to make sure that they get more time outside. I want to make sure that they're not stuck in a seat. But I think sometimes it's easy to overlook that when there's all these sort of, I want to call them trappings, but they're not. Like, you know, prom and graduation. And there's all these sort of like bright light things about high school that it would be easy to just be drawn to that because you don't have a solid why for that age stage.

Speaker 2:
[08:18] Yeah, I started the book in my introduction with this very idea because I think in the early years, our children's vulnerability is obvious to us. We can see that they are fragile in some ways, or we can see their needs clearly. But sometimes as they move into adolescence, it can become a little bit more difficult to recognize that this stage is also vulnerable. And in fact, in some ways, as you're saying, I think it might be more vulnerable than the preschool years. My kids did go to school. They went to a learning through play preschool. I don't have any regrets about that. That was fine for them. If they're in a peer group in preschool, they weren't being exposed to things that might affect them for the rest of their lives, like we see with the adolescent brain. Because as you're saying, both the preschool time or infancy, the early years are a time of dramatic brain development, but then also again in adolescence, like no other time in life. And in adolescence, we talked a bit about this in the previous podcast, the brain is stickier, is one way it's been described by Dr. Lawrence Steinberg, who studies the brain in adolescence. It's stickier like Velcro to experiences that happen to us. And this can be for the good, it can be beneficial, or it can be harmful and create vulnerabilities for our kids. And so one example is if you think of being a teenager, and it's a perfect summer day, and you're driving with the windows down, and you're listening to your favorite song, maybe with your friends, that's relatively ordinary, but it might feel euphoric because of the way your brain is wired. I think we all have a memory like that. But then on the flip side, we have things that become vulnerabilities to us in the teenage years because they are sensitivities. So last time we talked about labels around things like math or creativity, and how that might affect our career direction. But also, it can be related to things like friendships, clicks, things that are said about us relationally, dating, the baggage that then we bring into other friendships, our marriage, because of things that happen to us in those years. Also, there's a pressure to conform. Conform to what the group says, rather than to what we believe. And the teenage brain is especially sensitive to rejection. In fact, I found it alarming, but also so important to know that rejection fires in the brain like pain. So when we say this experience was painful, it actually legitimately was painful. And in fact, some research shows it can even respond to Tylenol because of the way the pain receptors are fired. And so this is a time where our kids are learning so much that they will bring in to their future, whether it's about what kind of career they'll pursue, the kind of experiences that will lead to their decision making into adulthood. And we know that the connections they feel, whether they feel like they belong, those things carry into adulthood. They don't just affect them in that period of life. So I think that this is a time of great importance and a time of vulnerability. But I don't want to cast it all negatively. A time of great potential.

Speaker 1:
[11:44] Well, I think there's a beautiful vulnerability in it, right? Like there is a vulnerability in infancy. No one would consider that necessarily to be negative. It's the time when you bond, right? You bond with your baby, they need you. And it's just interesting when you really take a step back, Rachel, that no one talks about it though, in a similar way or very few people do when it comes to high school, these high school years, these teenagers. And if you're listening and you've got a 10-year-old, and that's your oldest child, like this happens like no matter what, it's like their brain changes. So we've got, you know, and you and I both had like right in and out of these teenage years. And you know, you've got a kid that, I don't even know, they're going to play on the trampoline. That's kind of all they do, you know, they whatever. And then all of a sudden they're like, okay, at theater, this girl likes this boy, but everybody likes the same boy. And but the one girl, she lays her head on his shoulder and everyone else is mad. And someone came to me in the bathroom, they are crying because the girl shouldn't be putting her head on his shoulder because that makes everybody feel uncomfortable. And I think I'm going to say something. Okay, but like the brain change is happening. It has happened. It's like this switch toward like social and really noticing. I'm like, this did not exist six months ago. And then you have to be like, well, probably you shouldn't get involved.

Speaker 2:
[13:05] Exactly. And yeah, you're right. You're right that actually, the teenage brain is more sensitive to gossip. It's more sensitive to looks, glances. Like maybe if someone's giving you the side eye or comments, they're all taken in in a deeper way. So that stickiness is like it leaves a deeper impression. The brain is more primed to notice these things in those years. And you're right, it can feel really dramatic. And yes, I'm giving my kids that same advice too.

Speaker 1:
[13:33] It just happens, right? It just happens. And like, like just how development happens when they're little, like there's you're not going to be able to stop them from, you know, this developmental change. You know, I'm like, we talked about how these kids are up late at night. And then that's how they're wired. That's how the human body is made. The shift happens. And so, you know, talking about just noticing how you look, I'm like, okay, the kids come in my room at night, we have a mirror in our room, like a floor to ceiling, a tall mirror. I don't know, the other people put it there. That lived here before us and we're not good at home decorating. So like basically everything that's in our home was already here. When we moved in, it's been like seven years. We have not touched anything. So, so the mirror is there. And so they come in at night and well, they're talking about all of these things, drama, what they want to do. They're looking at themselves. They don't look at me. They're looking at themselves and they're like checking their muscles. But the point is, is that these are natural biological processes that occur and they matter. And so it is worth, I think, a parent's time to dive into them. And you can dive into them in your book, Their Future Is Shining Bright, of, okay, are there things that we might be missing? Because we remember what it was like in high school and you just go to your classes and you go to a couple of dances and you play sports and you come home. Are we forgetting about some of these deep pressures and the sort of long lasting impacts that they can have? So in talking about conformity, this is one of the things that you talk about in the book, that there's these studies that happen where people will actually give the wrong answer. There's so much social pressure and this isn't even just for teens, but it's magnified in the teen years. Sometimes I think Rachel people would be like, well, does it really matter? But I do think it matters and especially in a day and age where life is less linear. So one example, and I've talked about this a couple of times on the show that really stuck out to me, but this lady came on our podcast. Her name is Melanie Hempi and she has this program called Screen Strong. She had her oldest son got addicted to video games as a teen, like a middle schooler, and she's like, I didn't think anything of it, like kids play video games. Some I think have more personality toward addiction, but she didn't really put any boundaries on it. So he got addicted to the point where I think he had to come home after his first year of college because he never left his room and he was playing video games all the time. It just was an addiction for him. So then she's got these other kids, and for them, there was no screens. We're going to do all hands-on things. I'm going to invest, we're going to have bonfire. She's got really cool ideas. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. 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I've been doing a bit of spring reset with my closet, trying to simplify things and focus on pieces that actually work. Not more clothes, just better ones. Things that are well made, easy to mix and match, and that I don't have to think twice about. That's really why I love Quince. The quality is there, the fit is right, and the pricing feels really fair. Quince makes everyday staples with premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton, and really soft, comfortable denim, and many of their pieces start around $50. Their spring styles are especially great because they're lightweight and breathable, but still look polished. You can throw something on and feel ready for the day. They also carry that same level of quality into their accessories. Their leather bags are made from 100% hand-woven Italian leather, and look far more expensive than they actually are. I love that Quince works directly with ethical factories and skips the middleman. 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They're probably just a little bit older than your oldest. And they said when they got there, this is what they said, every single girl is exactly the same, exactly the same. I cannot find one that looks up from her phone. I can't find one that can talk about other things besides TikTok. And it really does make you stop and think of conformity as being very limiting.

Speaker 2:
[20:52] Exactly. I think that's exactly right. And there was a more recent study done on conformity that showed that one thing that kids conform to is making a lack of effort. So that if you make an effort, that that's not cool. And so they've done various studies on that. And one was they would show the top performing students on a leaderboard in a classroom. And when that happened, the top performers dropped in their performance by 40 percent. Then also, wow, they offered, wow, I mean, that's, that is wild.

Speaker 1:
[21:24] Because they, because they didn't want to be like shining like that.

Speaker 2:
[21:28] It's like, exactly. Wow. Or there was a resource for free SAT prep, and you could sign up for it. Now, you might think people wouldn't want to sign up because they wouldn't want others to know that they weren't doing well. No, it's exactly the opposite. They didn't want to be seeming like they were trying too hard. Because trying too hard in that environment, in the high school was considered to be, I don't know, like nerdy or something like that.

Speaker 1:
[21:51] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[21:52] And so when it was shown, fewer students signed up when it was made private, the sign up skyrocketed because kids did in their heart of hearts want to do well. But they didn't want to risk looking like they didn't fit in with the group by trying too hard. But think about it, just that little part of conformity, not to try too hard. Think of how many areas that could affect your life.

Speaker 1:
[22:18] Yes. Yes, absolutely. It's limiting. Conformity is limiting. And obviously you want to be able to adapt to social norms. This is one of the myths that you talk about in the book, Their Future Is Shining Bright, that they are going to rub shoulders with other people. These kids are not locked in a home all day. The point earlier of I got a kid that's in a local theater group. And so she does these plays and then she's coming home. I mean, there is a lot of drama in that drama group. So there is a brush with it, right? Like there's an exposure to it, but it's not all consuming. And I think we've had kids that have had, well, our story, right? You know, our story is like we lost our whole community. We lost, you know, our church. We didn't lose it. We were kicked out of it. But we lose this community. And so we've had touch points with different communities and you sometimes see that or you kind of often see that when you're in that environment all day, every day, that that becomes sort of your whole world. And so, you know, conformity is something to consider when we're talking about adolescence. I mean, I remember that from being a kid. I remember being in middle school and being like, it's not cool to seem smart. And so I'm going to seem dumb. And then in time, you kind of become more dumb because you didn't pay attention.

Speaker 2:
[23:36] It wasn't until college that I realized, oh, wow, I actually really love learning. I love math. I like to read. When I was growing up reading, it was like you didn't want to be a reader in my high school. I mean, that was not considered something to do. So I was thinking, wow, this is just absolutely amazing to discover these things in adulthood, which at least there's a second chance for people. But also, I think in the initial study, that was the foundation for social psychology, there was a simple experiment done by Solomon Ash where students had to just recognize a line and match it to a line on a different card that was the same length. It was very straightforward. The line was either short and you match it to the short line. The line was long and you match it to the long line. They brought in a bunch of actors who then said the wrong answer and went before the participant in the study. Well, 77 percent of students, participants reported the incorrect answer to fit in with the group. So if you have people that are absolutely denying truth, what are the implications for our society? I mean, that's just a simple study. This wasn't even their friends. This was just a group. This wasn't where it really mattered. But how can we raise kids that are willing to stand up even if it costs them? How can we raise kids that are thinking critically and not just going along because they have a need to fit in? What's going on inside oneself if they have to sacrifice what they believe to be true in order to conform? Because then, this is a double-edged sword with conformity. You're not actually being accepted for who you are. We maybe all know what that's like. So it's false and we know it's false because it's not true authenticity.

Speaker 1:
[25:26] Wow, it's like a false acceptance, but only you know.

Speaker 2:
[25:29] Only you know, but it still rings hollow.

Speaker 1:
[25:33] Yeah. I love this conversation too because it all comes full circle. With homeschooling in particular, there are a lot of people who would say that pressure, outside pressure, often from extended family, is one of the factors that keeps them from making that decision. And so you have to learn in life, like what are my ideals? What are my goals? What is my vision? What have I learned? What do I know to be true? You know, there are stacks. If we, you know, you and I, we stand on the shoulders of these other people like John Holt and John Taylor Gatto, who have come before us and said, this is what the research shows, you know, and you're like, okay, well, I see it, I believe it, but I'm nervous. And you know, if you've got family members that are like harping in your ear, you know, your kids, they're going to be weird. I've never met a normal homeschooler. Like you have to know how to stand your ground. I met this dad one time, I was speaking at a homeschool conference here in Michigan and he came up to me and he said, and I did the keynote. So like, I mean, and I'm, I'm so pro it. I'm like, I get it. Everyone has different circumstances. But what I think is that you will never regret it. You're never going to regret time with your kids. And you talk about that in this book was one of my favorite lines. The book is called Their Future Is Shining Bright. And you talk about measuring time in motherhood. And you just talk about how I was drawn to homeschooling in part because it felt like a way of gathering time. The conversation around homeschooling often centers on academics. How can it meet a child's individual needs? But it's the relational benefits that I cherish most. The rhythms of shared life and ordinary days that have drawn us closer. I've come to see that there is this timelessness to motherhood. A day can feel like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. But in love, we move outside of time and brush the edge of what's eternal. This is beautiful, right? So I will stand up and say the best decision that we have ever made as a family is to home educate. So this guy comes up to me and he's like, look, I get it. He's like, I really want to do it. My wife really wants to do it. He said, but I'm a public school teacher and my coworkers are going to give me a hard time.

Speaker 2:
[27:35] I think that's really common. And I felt that myself too, coming from a more traditional family, even though my family had some of my aunts had been first-generation homeschoolers. And so we are then modeling, what does it mean to not conform? And I think the thing is people get used to it. So if that's the thing that's holding you back, it's kind of like anything. Family and friends, maybe they might say something at first, but like eventually most of the time, I think that they accept it when they can start to see the fruit of it and also if they say homeschoolers are weird, that's just objectively not true based on the research. Just because you anecdotally know someone who might be different, that doesn't mean that that's how all homeschoolers are. This has been studied in depth. Harvard just did a huge study on it through their Harvard flourishing program. They wrote about it in The Wall Street Journal, saying what homeschoolers are doing right, talking about the ways in which they're flourishing in ways that private and public schoolers are not, and debunking the myth that homeschoolers are weird. So people can hold a myth, but that's why it's a myth. It's not true.

Speaker 1:
[28:41] There are some homeschoolers that are weird, and there are some public school students that are weird, and there are some private school students that are weird, and just some people are weird, and that's just how it is. This is a big deal because you see how, I think someone might say, especially because we're not really having these conversations too much, that conformity, it's not that big of a deal, but then you see someone who's 35 years old and wants to make a decision for their family and they care so much about what their co-workers. I didn't even really know what to respond to that guy, Rachel. I want to be like, grow up. I didn't say that. I tried to be really compassionate, but I was like, who cares what your co-workers, these are your children. Like you have to make, if you think the best decision for your children is for them to be home in the family unit, like you have to make a decision that is outside of what your co-workers, they're not even your family. You could get a different job. I mean, they don't really care about you, right? I mean, they might a little bit. So I just thought it was so interesting how far-reaching and long-lasting that can be. This is a total anecdotal conversation, but we've got a friend, a family friend where our oldest boys are friends, and they're homeschool friends. They've been friends for a long time. So now everyone's getting into these years where they're like 18, 19 years old, and so occasionally the homeschool friend will show up to our house and he's going to stay for a week or whatever. So we're big on not having aspartame. My midwife says we're not great on a ton of things, but that's an easy one in my opinion. You just have to get the gross pure gum. That's not good, and you just don't have diet things, right? So you can avoid aspartame. Well, this young gentleman likes aspartame. So it's always like a big conversation in our house, and he calls it the tame, and it's written on our dry erase board on our fridge. But he doesn't care. I'm always like, that's a neurotoxin. And that's a silly example, but I do think that you can grow up in a way where you are cognizant of social norms, where you are aware of what the crowd is doing. But you also don't care too much. You don't care enough that you're always swept up in it. And I think a side conversation here, but it's in a similar umbrella topic, is substance abuse. So talking about conformity, and we've got a kid that's on a volleyball team, all the kids are in different school situations. And she'll say, the girls on the volleyball team say that every single party they go to, there are drugs and alcohol. And I'm kind of like, where are they getting it? And why are we still doing this? Like everybody knows the long-term ramifications, and everybody knows that you're more impressionable at those ages to become addicted. Like the earlier you are, the earlier exposure. And people know people who have lifelong battles.

Speaker 2:
[31:52] Exactly. And the studies are very clear that these things are almost contagious. If kids are around kids who are drinking and doing drugs, they're more likely to drink and do drugs. If they're around kids who are making risky sexual choices, they're more likely to make those same choices as well. Even things like depression and anxiety seem to have some kind of element of who are you around and how are those things affecting us in a deeper way. And I think back to what you were saying about homeschooling, some of it maybe is a lack of confidence in the parent. Because I did care what people thought a lot more when I was first starting out. But once you get your bearings, I think it's like that with anything, whether it's your parenting choices or any decision. Once we have more confidence in what we're doing, then I think those opinions matter less. Do you think?

Speaker 1:
[32:39] Yeah, I do. And I think life is a practice of choosing your own path. My mom always says, let your smile be your umbrella. And I feel like I'm in a lot of situations where I feel slightly uncomfortable or out of place. But I'm not going to change who I am because of it. And so I just smile.

Speaker 2:
[33:00] Yeah, part of it is like growing in, like knowing who you are and having that sense of like a secure base in that, that even if someone doesn't like you, that's okay because you don't have to be liked by everyone. And that's really a trap in and of itself.

Speaker 1:
[33:16] Yeah. And okay, so Kim John Payne talks about this. He talks about having and you talk about this in your book in terms of connection. So you say connected teens show a dramatically lower risk of a lot of different types of negative outcomes. So you have research in the book talking about from the CDC in these categories, poor mental health, persistent sadness, seriously considering suicide, attempted suicide. And you say that when you have a connected teen, which I mean, that's a myth right there. I think that there would be a whole cohort of people because of societal messaging that wouldn't even understand that you can have a connected teen. But the connected teen is cutting these risks in half often.

Speaker 2:
[34:00] And what's sad is I got thinking about what exactly does that even mean? Because we hear these words, what is a connected teen? It just means that they feel like people care about them.

Speaker 1:
[34:09] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[34:10] That they feel like they are cared for. And the research showed too that the connection was meant to be coming from a broader sense of community, not just their peer group. So parents, connection with parents is huge and being protective against all kinds of negative things that our teens face, but also the larger community, not just their own peer group.

Speaker 1:
[34:30] Right. Absolutely. Because they end up, because once you hit those pre-teen and teen years, your world begins to expand naturally, right? Because you have interests and you join different, you're in a club or you're a music situation. So you are starting to interact with adults in a broader community and all the way through, often you're interacting with other parents. You're often interacting, like, okay, in our example, I've interacted, I would say a fair amount with your children. You've interacted a fair amount with our children. So they are connecting with this broad group of people. Can you talk about pushing back against, because I think people think about teen years, like how they say the terrible twos and terrible threes. They say the same thing, right? About teenagers, it's going to be terrible. And it's not, it's like wonderful.

Speaker 2:
[35:21] Well, and I think for some people, they can face difficult things, just like the two and three year old years can be hard for some parents too, or like the baby years can be difficult. Some things can be difficult, but it doesn't mean that we should write them off. And they can be wonderful. So I'm thinking about your own kids and how at Thanksgiving, I stayed up talking to your eldest son and his friend, and my daughter Indigo until almost two in the morning. And I laughed so hard, my stomach hurt. And they didn't think it was weird to have a mom around listening. And they were really open about the things that were going on. And they could joke freely, but it wasn't like, oh, we're too cool for school, that we can't have you here. It just all felt very integrated and fun. And so I love that. I think that's great. And they're so cool. And I don't know if it's weird to say normal.

Speaker 1:
[36:12] Well, it becomes a sort of, in some ways, a peer relationship as they grow, right? They're an adult. I mean, we talked a lot at Thanksgiving about dating. You know, it's like, okay, this, you know, this girl likes this guy there at college. He thinks she's too young. Like, is she really too young? What is the appropriate age gap? You know, how, you know, what are some ways that you might be able to further the relationship? What are the signs that he's giving up? And if you, I think that it's important to have some input from...

Speaker 2:
[36:40] Exactly! Some of the most important decisions of our life. Don't we? Yes, peers are important. Of course, they're important. But don't you also want to get information on dating or maybe some advice or whatever, feedback from people who have been there, who have seen, okay, this guy might seem great now, but I dated somebody like that. And like, this is how it ended up. Because we can only learn certain things through experience. And of course, the peer perspective matters, but I think to be able to have fluid conversations with adults that just seem like a friend kind of relationship are so important for these years.

Speaker 1:
[37:19] Yeah. And I do think that you can see that they are interested in another perspective. Who wouldn't be truly interested? If you feel like it's fine to have another perspective, you're not feeling pressured to just talk to other peer teens. It's like everybody wants multiple perspectives. You know, people go in for health care scares. You're like, oh, I want to get a second opinion from another expert. And that's kind of what's happening here. Spring has a way of filling every open space on the calendar. Activities, travel, time outside, all the good things. But it can make it harder to keep your curriculum learning consistent during the final stretch of the homeschool year. That's why having something flexible and easy to use can make a big difference right now. IXL is designed to make kids where they are and fit into real life, not add more complexity to it. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform with interactive practice in math, language, arts, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade. It adapts to each child's level, keeps them engaged, and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out this time of year is how simple and time-saving it is. Everything is organized by grade and subject, so you can quickly find exactly what your child needs, whether that's reviewing before testing or continuing to move forward. Because it's personalized, kids can work at their own pace without pressure, which helps keep motivation up even when schedules get busy. Make an impact on your child's learning, get IXL now, and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20 percent of IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com/1000hours. Visit ixl.com/1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. At that particular trip, so we were with each other on Thanksgiving, your daughter, I mean, she like made the whole meal. Talk about like life skills and she was happy to do it. Like I think about sometimes the drudgery, some people love it, but sometimes like, oh, I got to do this, I got to take that, you know, we're getting together. And she was like in her element.

Speaker 2:
[39:17] She says it's her Super Bowl.

Speaker 1:
[39:21] She did an incredible job and there was a lot of people there.

Speaker 2:
[39:25] Yeah, but I think it's so important for, I think Gen Z was really interesting is their generation is so different and the things that they're facing are so different from the things, even if you look at dating in our generation versus what they're facing in dating, like a lot of girls might just ghost a guy or vice versa. Ghosting is a thing where I really just encourage my kids to have the honest conversation with someone if you're dating and it's not working out rather than choosing ghosting. But like you're saying, it's just really wild to see what's happened in some ways to a generation that's spending a lot of time on their phone. I don't know. Don't you think the world's totally different than when we were dating?

Speaker 1:
[40:06] I can't even imagine, honestly. I mean, I think it's just tremendously more difficult. Well, because part in part, attraction is a physiological thing. It has to do with smell. I learned this from Dr. Arthur Brooks. The dating apps, they're meant to keep you on there. It's a business model. I had read a story about a guy who he talked too much about himself or talked too much or something like that. The girl who broke up with him told him. She was like, you're too self-centered, basically, and he was annoyed about it. But then he said he really took it to heart and he changed, and then he met his future wife. I'm like, oh, it's like a gift to humanity, not to ghost.

Speaker 2:
[40:52] Yeah. Then I'm thinking about what you had said earlier about going to college. My son told me that when he's on the bus in college, going back from classes, I think of when I was a student, you might want to talk to people, you might want to, but everyone is on their phone and tapping through fast-form content in a way like they're not even absorbing it. It's just like tapping their screen over and over and over again. Because the dopamine is, I don't understand how that all works with dopamine, but it's something to do with dopamine.

Speaker 1:
[41:24] It does. I don't know if she goes by Dr. Michaelene Ducleff. She's got a PhD. She just came out with a book called Dopamine Kids, and she said they have basically monetized wanting. It's like a want of wanting, so you just want to see, but you're never satisfied. That's why it's like this endless black hole, but then for a teenage young 20s, that would have been the time to be like, oh, there's a guy over there, there's a girl over there. I wonder what she's all about, what he's all about. What are they majoring in? What classes are they taking? Where are they staying? Where's their dorm? None of those conversations are happening. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[42:02] If nothing else, just because you're bored, right?

Speaker 1:
[42:04] Right.

Speaker 2:
[42:05] If you're just having to sit on the bus for 20 minutes, and so you're going to make conversation because you're bored.

Speaker 1:
[42:10] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[42:10] But now with having a phone, then people aren't necessarily bored.

Speaker 1:
[42:14] Yeah. We were on a long flight recently and the TV stopped working. It was like the pilot was like, I'm going to have to reset the system. It happened three different times. So you might be like 10 minutes into a movie. He was like, so I'm drawing, I got to reset the system. So all of the TVs go off. And then what happens? You just hear this like murmuring. Oh, people are having conversations with each other because the screen is not available and it was like cool and heartbreaking all at the same time. You know that so much is being missed. But I do think that if you know the standing out of people notice that people notice people who stand out in a good way, that they're not the one that's on their phone constantly, that they can have a conversation without pull with an in-depth conversation about different topics. So, I mean, you would know more than I because your kids are just a little bit older, but I do just see our kids doing totally fine socially and almost in a way even more than fine because they really have a lot of substance to them.

Speaker 2:
[43:15] Yes. And I feel like they don't feel that strong need to conform. So my son said, I'm going to bring books on the bus. I always have three different books and I don't want to be on my phone. He's made his phone all gray scale. They don't feel as much of a desire to conform, but they also still, they're not like social outcasts. Do you know what I'm saying? Like they can fit in while still being true to themselves. And I think that in the teenage years, if we can cultivate an environment where they can learn about social norms while also learning how they can be true to what they believe in and stand by that, that that is such a gift.

Speaker 1:
[43:48] Yeah. It's that and then it's also, and I'm sure that there are so many other elements there. People can read more in depth in your book, Their Future Is Shining Bright. So it's that and it's also some protection against long-term substance abuse, addiction type things, possibly mental health challenges. So there's a lot to be said about teenage vulnerability. And we need to be talking about it. And that needs to be a part of your decision. As you're looking at, am I capable or not? Your book is going through, look, there's a lot of resources that are going to help you. That's probably not the most important question. The most important question is, what should teen years look like? Just like when we talk about a five-year-old, like what does it make sense for them to have an iPad? Does it make sense for them to have a short recess, one or two? Does it make sense for their biology? And I think we have to be asking the same questions for our teens. Before you get to the why comes first, and then you get to the how, and the book gives you all of it. Part one is why homeschool and high school, and then part two is design it. And then part three is thrive, and part four is let's start to think about the future. And then with all these appendices at the end, including how to build your transcript. One of my kids asked me that the other day. They were like, how does a homeschool, you know, one of the younger ones, how does a homeschooler graduate? So that's all in the book. And what if they're college bound, or what if they would like to take a path that is more certification or doesn't require a four-year college degree? It's all in the book. It is an interesting book and a hefty book where there's these 30 pages of career paths and certification ideas. So the why comes first, and we are in the middle of a youth mental health crisis. So the why matters a lot. It matters a lot and you can have really good connections with your kids. Dr. Gore Neufeld says, his parent connection over peer. And I don't think we structure our society that way, but he's got some significant research to back that. Okay, so talking then, can you cast a vision for families that are listening who think, okay, well, if they're in high school, then they're in class, obviously every day with peers. Maybe after school, they do an activity or two, whether that's a club or a sport. And maybe they have a job or something like that. So they have a lot of social interaction. One of the things that you talk about in this book is about how to find community. This is Chapter 8 in Their Future Is Shining Bright. And you gave a bunch of really cool ideas. What might that look like for a homeschooler in high school? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[46:22] Well, I think that it can look so differently, and we don't have to follow any one formula. So there are a lot of things that we can do. One is just simply taking advantage of opportunities that already exist in our community, whether that's co-ops, dual enrollment, extracurriculars. In my city, we have an amazing children's chorus, where my kids sing in a choir, a youth orchestra, where they play in the orchestra. We have a French club for people of all ages. So there are a lot of things that are already out there for homeschoolers. Homeschooling is not a fringe educational choice. It's growing seven times faster than private school enrollment. So with that is so many more resources that are available to homeschoolers. Then there are things that you can do. I talk about people who hosted various things, whether it was dances at their house to bring teenagers together in their home, or a friend who started a nature group for teens that looks like doing things like hikes or nature journaling that changes as kids get older. But it's been something that has been so meaningful in her own community. Then maybe something smaller, not every kid is an extrovert that thrives in a huge social environment. Not every kid needs to be surrounded by peers all the time. I think that's a myth, that we think that the teenage years mean that they must be surrounded by peers. But they can cultivate relationships in smaller settings, like having friends over to do something that they're interested in, or pursuing something like volunteering that might be with a mixed age setting. There's a lot of ideas in that chapter. And also knowing how long it takes to form friendships. So with social media and just our own impressions, we might think that people just stumble easily into friendships. But that just isn't true. A lot of the research on forming friendships shows it takes a lot of time, around 200 hours, to have a best friendship. That doesn't just come, you know, it's just not something that's necessarily always easy. And so going to the same places again and again, that's something that's available to them in many different ways and different forms, depending on your own child, which I think is so cool.

Speaker 1:
[48:32] Yeah, it's so cool. So this is a kind of unique week on the podcast. We are bookending the week, the work week, the Monday to Friday with you and your husband. So this podcast is coming out on a Monday, books out, you know, it's out Tuesday, but if you order it today, you're going to get it on launch day. And then your husband, Dan, who you call America's dad, you'll get to hear from America's dad on Friday. But you know, it's really interesting. One of the things, because I got to interview him earlier this morning, and he was talking about how coming from a father's perspective, who's in the workforce, I understand, you know, we've got friends where the dad does homeschool, and I think it's more common that the mom homeschool, you know, does the bulk of the homeschooling. I know there's different situations though. But he's coming from this perspective of being in the workforce. You know, the kind of cutthroat, it is a cutthroat workforce. I mean, if your job gets eliminated, you're eliminated, whether I care for you or not, whether you have children or not, you know, whether I know you're going through a medical situation or not, you know, I know Dan's lost a job, Josh has lost a job, I lost a job, you know, like you get pink-slipped as a teacher, they don't, you know, you're at the bottom of the seniority. So, you know, the workplace can be cut out. And what Dan was talking about was, you know, do my kids have the skills? Like he, I think that from my perspective, I'm looking at it as like as from the mom's perspective, I'm looking at it as crafting an experience, right? Like how we crafted this home experience, has it been enriching? Has it been fulfilling? Have the kids been able to grow as whole people? And Dan's perspective was interesting because he's looking at it from, I work with thousands of people over X amount of decades. And so I have all these inputs as to what makes someone successful and not. And are my kids going to be the type of kids that I would employ? Are my kids going to be the type of kids that I would want to have as a co-worker? And one of the things that he said was, you know, they're going to come out of high school or college, or the military or whatever they end up doing sort of post high school. And he said, their first client might be 80 years old. Their first boss might be 57. Like their boss and their clients are not all going to be 23.

Speaker 2:
[50:41] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[50:41] And so that's one of the things that you talk about in the book that is an important thing that you brought up French Club, you're like anybody of any age can join. We've done a rock, the Central Michigan Gem and Lampadier Society.

Speaker 2:
[50:57] Very niche.

Speaker 1:
[50:58] It's quite a society. I'm like, and I mean, they're all kind of old, but they love rocks, you know? So it's getting your kids these opportunities to, on a more regular basis have a community that is not so like monolith.

Speaker 2:
[51:14] Exactly, yes. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Speaker 1:
[51:17] Well, I didn't know if monolith was a word, so then I figured you would help me.

Speaker 2:
[51:21] Monolithic, would it be?

Speaker 1:
[51:22] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[51:24] Yeah, so I think that's such a good point. And why is it that we don't always value people when they're not exactly? And like, it's so important to know that all of those opinions are being able to relate to people that are different than us is so important. And there's so much to learn from people who are different than us. We don't have to be only in, you know, this very small and narrow group where everybody is exactly like us and age and sees everything exactly like us, you know? There's so much to learn from others who are different from us.

Speaker 1:
[51:54] Yeah. And so in these, it's just a natural, I think a lot of parts of homeschooling are not, you don't have to strive for it, it just naturally happens because you're in, maybe, you know, you might be an only child or you might be in a family where there's three kids. And so there's automatically, you're dealing with a baby, you know, you've got a toddler in your home, you know, you've got an older teen sister. Maybe you're spending a little bit more time with extended family, you're out in the community. You know, the choir is not all second graders with second graders. The choir is a lot of ages. You know, one of the things you talked about was one of your daughters, she like got into violin later, and she still joined and it didn't matter. Like she's super tall.

Speaker 2:
[52:37] She joined the youth orchestra. She started violin during COVID because our piano studio closed down. Our city was shut down for a long time and she could do violin lessons online. So she learned the violin. But starting as a freshman in high school is kind of late, comparatively to when a lot of kids start. And so then she wanted to join our youth orchestra and she qualified to be on par with the seventh graders. Sitting down, everything looked great. You couldn't really tell. But then they'd stand up to take the bow, and she's 5'11. The average height there was 4'11. And she said she felt like Buddy the Elf in the Elf Choir. But she still did it.

Speaker 1:
[53:13] And I think that the point is, is that the natural types of club hobby type things, community things that you join are multi-age and often multi-generational. And from Dan's perspective, it's like, well, that is a quality to be able to, you know, interweave conversations and just to be able to be in those environments and thrive. The home school kids that we know, you know, they'll come and sit at your table and be like, how's your business going?

Speaker 2:
[53:46] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[53:47] You know, and they'll be like, I want to start a power washing business. What do you think about this plan?

Speaker 2:
[53:51] Yeah. And I think, as you said before, conformity is limiting. I love that idea because I think this isn't about being afraid, it's about seeing the potential that is available. And think of if she hadn't done that youth orchestra experience, which was tremendously beneficial to her as a musician. She grew leaps and bounds because she had been too embarrassed to be with kids who were much younger. I mean, that would have held her back.

Speaker 1:
[54:18] Yeah, absolutely. And then you just, you have experience of being with people that are of different age. And also, you know, like I did a piano competition. You sent me this like cutest piano necklace. I actually wore it the last time we talked. I don't have it on this time, but I did a piano competition and I was kind of embarrassed a little bit because I was like, there was only one other adult.

Speaker 2:
[54:39] You're so good though. You're amazing.

Speaker 1:
[54:42] You know, and they call you up for the trophy and like every single other kid that's gone up for a trophy has been a teen or younger. So you're going up there and the other lady was a little older than I was and you could tell. I was like, well, at least I'm not the oldest one. But you know, I thought, you know, the fact that that you know, you have this daughter that stands up and she's a foot taller than everybody else. You hope that that gives other people courage.

Speaker 2:
[55:03] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[55:04] I thought this wasn't for me. I don't look the part. I'm not the right age, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Speaker 2:
[55:08] And it shows a sense of confidence so we don't have to be limited. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:13] Absolutely. I love that.

Speaker 2:
[55:14] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[55:14] Let's wrap it up with career discernment because I love the way that this book is laid out. It's just a really thought well thought through layout of a book. The book is called Their Future Is Shining Bright, A Guide to Homeschooling in High School, and Equippling Your Child for Success and Fulfillment in Adulthood. So it starts with the why and we talked about some of that here. So you can read more in the book and then we're on to part two, which is how do you design it? And we've talked about a little bit of that as well, but not you'll find a lot more in the book, but outsourcing and things like that. And you go through CLEP and AP and all these acronyms that you want to make sure you know, dual enrollment. Okay. Then how do you thrive? We've talked some about close family relationships and how do you cultivate community? But then you do wrap it up with what is the whole point here is like Dan said, they're entering into an adult world and what are the sort of skill sets they need and how do they do that? So you talk in the book a lot about career discernment. And one of the things that you talk about is passion projects, homeslice. We've talked about homeslice, but just that there are so many different ways to explore the world of work and that there's this article that came out, Why College Graduates Feel Betrayed. And I think that as homeschooling high school parents, I do think that there's a little bit of an extra hedge of protection there where, I mean, every homeschool is gonna be different, but I think that our kids are gonna feel supported as opposed to feeling betrayed.

Speaker 2:
[56:45] Yeah, that was interesting because that came out of the New York Times and they were talking about kids are like struggling with debt, 40% of kids start going, 40% of kids who go to college drop out and are left with a debt from college, which could be a life altering. Also, a charter school back in, I believe the 90s had said, college begins in kindergarten, homework tripled. And now that charter school has reversed what it said and said, no, college isn't going to be for everyone. Let's see the potential of all paths. So another article I had read in the New York Times was that most people or many people were never taught how to think about life strategically in terms of setting a goal. So they're just sort of being carried along by a sense of inertia. Maybe they don't even think about why they're going to college. Maybe they were just good in English. So they say, I'm going to go to college and major in literature, or maybe they were just good at math. So they're like, I guess that means I should be an engineer. So rather than thinking, is this actually what I want to do for the rest of my life? And I was really surprised as I talked to my friends, many said that they had never learned how to set goals, how to think about things in terms of what direction am I heading, and just how important that is, especially in these years of the teen years, then early adulthood, those decisions really matter. And so how can we help our kids get a feel for what they want to do while they're still in high school and to find what best suits them as individuals?

Speaker 1:
[58:13] I love that. I think it matters a lot. We've got this friend named Brittany, and her kids are like a little, her kids are like the same age as our younger kids. So she's like younger than I am, probably by a decade or more. And she does like sourdough cooking classes, and she's really like a cool person, right? And she's got this farm. And so we've been over at her house and our older two daughters have said things like, when I'm an adult, I want my life to be like Brittany's, which is kind of offensive to me, but like whatever. But you know, I get it. Like she's got the, and it's the small, some of the small things they notice, like they notice her meal plan on the fridge. And then she's got like this cute farmhouse. And so every once in a while, they'll be like, that's the house Brittany would live in. And they'll be like, that's house Brittany, Brittany doesn't even know that we do this. It's going to make her sound really super weird. But like they really were, it was like it left an impression on them. And it gave them a vision of like, and I remember that to a small degree as a kid, like you spend the night at someone's house, and you're like, oh, they're kind of weird. I wouldn't want or their house really smells like dogs. And I hope when I'm grown up, my house doesn't smell like a dog, but it probably does smell like a dog. That's one of my biggest concerns. But the exposure to other people's lives, and so you can do it through just being around other people, but also through this job shadowing or trying different passion projects. Like projects like one of the girls you talk about is a girl named Scarlett. She starts this pie making business. And we never know when we're going to need money on the side, whether it's your main thing or a side thing. There's a lot of time for experimentation.

Speaker 2:
[60:01] Yeah. The business is called Home Slice, which I love. And she just decided she doesn't want to be a baker, but this is something she likes to do to make money on the side. And she can make really good money. I think she sells her pies for something like $35 each or something like that, because they're really delicious. And also don't discount the way that trying these experiences can teach us what we don't want. So I write in the book about how I thought I'd want to be a nurse. I did job shadowing. Realize I don't like the sight of blood. I don't really like a hospital environment. Like it makes me feel stressed out. You know, so I learned thankfully early on, but if I had not had that experience in eighth grade, I would have just kept on thinking I wanted to be a nurse. Or a lot of kids start college thinking they want to go into medicine. I was surprised to read only 15 percent of kids graduate pre-med, because then they get started and they're like, I don't want to spend the next decade of my life doing these intense classes. You know, but they don't know that before going in. So what if we can give our kids exposure to these kind of things before, which then saves time and money and gives them greater clarity?

Speaker 1:
[61:07] It really is a big deal. I mean, I think back to my own college, you know, sort of transition from high school into college. And I do think the world was different then. I think the world was more linear. And so you could a little bit more easily just kind of make some willy nilly choice and still kind of be fine. Obviously, college costs have skyrocketed since. And like I got in and out of my and I took extra classes, you know, and so it was like cheaper if you took above 12 credits. I did take a lot of classes at one time. And my grandparents had bought us this. It was called Michigan Educational Trust. It paid for two years tuition at a state college in Michigan. So I had that and that was a big deal, right? And then I chose to commute. And so I didn't have the cost of living on campus. But I got through my undergraduate, which is with a teaching certificate. So I have a Bachelors of Science in Mathematics with a teaching certificate, which is a five year program. I got through in four years and it cost $10,000 total. That's how much money I paid out of pocket. That's $2,500 a summer. You know, I could make that lifeguarding. And it's different when it's $150,000 or $100,000. It's really different. And I just think back to like the career counselor, you know, the counselor that was appointed to me in my high school. And we probably spent 12 minutes together. And like, but this, this is what really matters. What really matters is do you have crippling debt? Are you locked into a career choice, you know, because you made a poor choice at 19, you know, when your brain wasn't even fully formed. And I guess like, if we're circling back to the beginning, everyone just kind of glosses over this stuff, but it matters a lot. I mean, I've got friends that are still paying off their college debt, at the same age.

Speaker 2:
[62:54] And the way it affects a lot of decisions, big decisions, when people feel like they can get married, when people can actually objectively buy a house. And should students be able to sign into this kind of debt, when they're not even allowed to buy cigarettes or drink alcohol? I mean, should they be able to sign on to 100,000 plus of debt? Like that's a real concern.

Speaker 1:
[63:15] Yeah. And they don't know, like they don't know what it's like to pay bills. They don't know how much the world costs. So I think even just having that extra time to really cast a vision alongside your child of, you know, what is it that you're hoping to get out of life? Do you want to live on a farm? Like, you know, you like Brittany's house. Like, let's look at how much some of those costs, you know, what are some ways, what are some paths that could get you there? And just because of the nature of homeschooling, you have time for those conversations. And you can also look out and, you know, and rub shoulders with other people. One of the things that you talk about in the book is growth mindset. You know, sort of like the thing you were talking about earlier, where people like stop trying, you know, they're conforming and they stop trying, but growth mindset gets you far. Actually one of our kids' stories is in the book, where she got her certification to be a personal trainer at age 15. She started the coursework at 14, 15. She becomes a National Academy of Sports Medicine personal trainer. Well, her certification only lasts for two years. So she came to me, it's been about 18 months. She came to me the other day and she was like, it's time for me to get my CEUs, you know? And I was like, everybody I've ever spoken to who has to get CEUs hates it. You know, it's like this thing that's looming over their head and they're like, they're, you know, they're always trying to like, oh, trying to get it in the easiest ways. And she was like, look, mom, she's like, I could take this class or this class and this one's worth 1.9, this one's worth 0.3 CEUs. We ended up doing the program where she can kind of pick from any of them like for the whole year. And she was just like dumbfounded. There's like, there's over 300 courses I could take. You know, and it's just, it's a different, it's different. There's not this like doldrums of like, I've got to take another class and another test. And that, that just brings out of the fact that learning has never been laborious or forced even really.

Speaker 2:
[65:00] Yeah, I love that she has developed this love for learning. And why don't we? Because learning is amazing. It's incredible to learn new things. What a gift. And also I liked, and I wrote about this in the book, that this was her first test.

Speaker 1:
[65:15] Yes, she passed with Flying Colors at a testing center. So I couldn't, it was like a bunch of adults. She walks into this testing center. They do all sorts of tests there, you know. She walks into the testing center and walks out with a sheet that says that she passed. And, and, you know, she even said they don't, probably for like security reasons for the actual test. Like she didn't get the actual feedback of what she got wrong and what she got right. And she's like, so badly, like, I wish, mom, I wish they would have given me like the act, you know, it's just different. It's really different. And this book includes this incredible checklist, aligning your teens work with their life vision. Wow. I mean, no one, no one does that. We just like, we just kind of move from the next thing to the next thing.

Speaker 2:
[65:59] That comes from America's dad, America's dad.

Speaker 1:
[66:05] You'll hear from America's dad on Friday. I mean, it is a phenomenal resource. Rachel, you have just outdone yourself. And I hope you feel very celebrated this week. And I hope that that celebration continues because as we often talk about with home education, these are generational impacts. A confident set of parents who feel a little shaky, but do what they feel that they're called to do anyway, produces kids who have similar qualities. And then that just sort of continues down the line. And so if, you know, if you have any questions, you're never too early to read the book. You know, if you've got preschoolers and you have doubts about, a lot of times people choose not to home school, like at the very beginning because of high school.

Speaker 2:
[66:47] Yeah, and it covers a lot of things that aren't just related to the teen years as well, that really are well suited for anyone who's choosing home schooling or even curious about it.

Speaker 1:
[66:56] Exactly, exactly. So you may have a four year old and this might be the book that you need to read or that your husband needs to read. That was one of the things that I talked about with Dan is like, often more, it's more often the case that the husband is not on board. And so it's important to have to be well researched, especially in changing times and especially when the stakes are high. You know, it's a youth mental health crisis. The job market is changing rapidly. We're in this day of generative AI. The stakes are high for our kids. And so if you are on the fence about homeschooling because you've got a five year old and you're nervous about how you're gonna teach calculus, start here and work backwards. You know, start with Their Future Is Shining Bright. Rachel, you did it. Huge congratulations.

Speaker 2:
[67:40] Thank you Ginny. I'm so grateful for you.